Speaker 1: Also media.
Speaker 2: Hey everyone, welcome to it could happen here. I am
Speaker 2: your guest host, Matt Leeb back again with sharene Unas.
Speaker 2: What's up, Cheren?
Speaker 3: Nothing? This?
Speaker 2: This is this? Yeah? This is what's y?
Speaker 1: No.
Speaker 3: I happy to be happy to be back. Hopefully you
Speaker 3: guys listen to part one already of Matt. Yeah, really
Speaker 3: cool little series we got going on here. But if
Speaker 3: you haven't listened to that first, and then we're continuing
Speaker 3: this Hasbara, this Hasbara journey.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this Hasbara train stops for no man uh. Yeah,
Speaker 2: So this is part two of this series about Hasbara
Speaker 2: once again. Hesbara is basically just means to explain, and
Speaker 2: we're talking about Israeli propaganda and beyond not just propaganda,
Speaker 2: but so much more.
Speaker 1: So.
Speaker 2: We're going to talk a little bit about the myths
Speaker 2: about Israel that have kind of like gained a foothold
Speaker 2: in Western public consciousness to a degree that it's like
Speaker 2: not just a foothold, but it's just kind of things
Speaker 2: that we commonly think are facts. So like if you
Speaker 2: grew up in Zionism, which is like if you don't know,
Speaker 2: that's a political ideology that birth the state of Israel,
Speaker 2: you have probably heard a lot of your teachers, your rabbis,
Speaker 2: your friends, your family, your Israeli friends, your Israeli family
Speaker 2: talking about how it's your responsibility to explain Israel to
Speaker 2: the people, and growing up, you don't actually know that
Speaker 2: what you're doing is propaganda, like you think you're just
Speaker 2: you know that you know more than most people because
Speaker 2: everyone else is getting their information from anti Semites. You know,
Speaker 2: you think like you've got the real scoop and that
Speaker 2: most people are just you know, born ignorance and biased
Speaker 2: against Jews. And you don't have to be Jewish to
Speaker 2: have been exposed to espara. Chances are that if you
Speaker 2: grew up in the West, you probably hold several views
Speaker 2: about Israel that are the result of decades long pr campaigns.
Speaker 2: So what I'm gonna do now is a lightning round
Speaker 2: of myth busting. This is just like real quick getting
Speaker 2: into some of the I don't know, some of the
Speaker 2: most pervasive things that I think each one could be
Speaker 2: an entire episode. But you know, listen, this is your guys,
Speaker 2: pot this isn't my podcast. I can't just take it
Speaker 2: away from you. So I'm just gonna do a lightning
Speaker 2: round with you are you ready.
Speaker 3: Sharen, oh Born Ready, Let's do it.
Speaker 2: Okay. Israel is not a land without a people for
Speaker 2: a people without land. Okay, there were people there. I
Speaker 2: don't know if you know that Palestinians were there and
Speaker 2: seven hundred and fifty thousand were expelled innineteen forty eight.
Speaker 2: This whole conflict has not been going on for hundreds
Speaker 2: of years. It is very very modern, and it has
Speaker 2: nothing to do with an ancient religious rivalry. So when
Speaker 2: someone says, oh, they've been killing each other for thousands
Speaker 2: of yet, no, no, not even a little no, that
Speaker 2: is not a thing. Israel quote lives in a tough
Speaker 2: neighborhood and it must act tough to survive. That is
Speaker 2: just regular ass racism and orientalism, the idea that they
Speaker 2: just you know, you have to be tough, you know,
Speaker 2: I mean, listen, A tough neighborhood is very much that
Speaker 2: is translated for an American, a white American audience. You
Speaker 2: know what I mean. What is a tough neighborhood. It's
Speaker 2: one with a lot of people of color. Here's another one.
Speaker 2: There are plenty of Arab states. Why can't they just
Speaker 2: go there again? This is a weird racist, dehumanizing thing
Speaker 2: to tell someone whose house you just bulldozed, like, you know,
Speaker 2: whenever you see them, like doing a big zoom ount
Speaker 2: where they go, like there's only one Jewish state and
Speaker 2: there's all these Arab states. You know, it's like no, no, no, personally,
Speaker 2: what happened here, don't don't you know? It's like you
Speaker 2: guy had house, Army took house, moved him to other area.
Speaker 2: That is wrong, period. You can't just say go to
Speaker 2: another Arab country. That's that's just racism. Here's another one.
Speaker 2: It's too complicated. No, it is not. Switch the roles
Speaker 2: in your head. Use your brain for a second. Switch
Speaker 2: the roles of Jews and Palestinians in your head, and
Speaker 2: you'll have an easier time condemning the side that has
Speaker 2: powerful government and army whose crimes include genocide, apartheid, at
Speaker 2: nick cleansing, military occupation, and religious slash, racist settler terrorism.
Speaker 2: That is not complicated. If it were the Jews who
Speaker 2: lived in Gaza getting bombed mercilessly, you would not have
Speaker 2: a problem saying what was happening was genocide. You just
Speaker 2: wouldn't just do that in your head. All right, here's
Speaker 2: another one. Zionism is an indigenous rights movement. No, it's
Speaker 2: fucking not. It's not. It is a settler colonialist movement.
Speaker 2: That is something that was made explicitly clear by the
Speaker 2: creators of modern Zionism. They not only talked about like
Speaker 2: settling and colonizing Palestine, but they referred to the Arab
Speaker 2: occupants there as the indigenous population. They they said indigenous.
Speaker 2: They God, it just pisses me off. And also the
Speaker 2: indigenous argument is like, way, I just hate it in
Speaker 2: general when people go back and forth about who is
Speaker 2: indigenous there, because it's so academic. It's like it's dehumanizing
Speaker 2: and it obfuscates the whole thing because once again it
Speaker 2: is just Palestinians being like I want to be able
Speaker 2: to vote, I want to have my house back. I
Speaker 2: literally have the key to my house. And yes, many
Speaker 2: of them literally still have the keys to their house.
Speaker 2: All right, there's there's so many there's so many goddamn
Speaker 2: myths and propaganda that I just like that. I started
Speaker 2: a podcast about it. That's that's that's why. But like
Speaker 2: much of the stuff that you take for granted is
Speaker 2: fact is not only a historic but like wildly so,
Speaker 2: like the IDF outnumbered the Arab States armies during the
Speaker 2: war forty eight. That is literally, they say the opposite
Speaker 2: in the you know, nineteen forty eight story of the
Speaker 2: creation of Israel. It's like un created Israel. All the
Speaker 2: Arab states attacked. That is not actually what happened. Were
Speaker 2: not just that all the Arab states attack, but that
Speaker 2: Israel and the IDEF overcame this gigantic horde of Arab armies.
Speaker 2: The Arab armies that were in this fight are far
Speaker 2: fewer than have been reported. You know, they say it's
Speaker 2: like seven, It was more like four, and only three
Speaker 2: of them. Only one of them had any sort of
Speaker 2: like modern military capabilities. The rest were not really armies.
Speaker 2: And also they outnumbered the idea of outnumbered these armies
Speaker 2: in nineteen sixty seven. Here's another one. Is it all
Speaker 2: attacked first in nineteen sixty seven. It was a preemptive
Speaker 2: strike like famously, and yet the you know, once again,
Speaker 2: the narrative around the nineteen sixty seven Six Day War
Speaker 2: is that, you know, is Youra all minding its own
Speaker 2: business and then Egypt, along with the other Arabs, yea
Speaker 2: evil Arabs, attacked the Israeli army struck first. That is
Speaker 2: a fact that they talk about, and there's it's also
Speaker 2: very very much disputed as to whether or not the
Speaker 2: Egyptian army was going to attack at all. But you know,
Speaker 2: there's no room for narrative because it, you know, fucks
Speaker 2: up the glorious story of what became the occupation of
Speaker 2: the West Bank and Gaza. Another one, a hud Barak
Speaker 2: absolutely did not offer the Palestinians estate during Oslo. He
Speaker 2: did not, nor did he offer ninety six percent of
Speaker 2: the West Bank. And no, Israel did not invent the
Speaker 2: fucking cherry tomato.
Speaker 3: Wait they did it.
Speaker 2: No, they did not. There was a Haretz article about
Speaker 2: it where they're like, no, we didn't. Why do we
Speaker 2: keep saying this we didn't do this? Oh my god,
Speaker 2: that's so funny. No.
Speaker 3: I mean, so many of these talking points are some
Speaker 3: of the main arguments that Zionis will use to be like, well,
Speaker 3: they rejected this and this is what happened here, and
Speaker 3: it's just like these are all incorrect. You're just like
Speaker 3: regurgitating hsbara.
Speaker 2: Right, And it's because that his Bara has been so
Speaker 2: widely repeated and so often that it just kind of
Speaker 2: sinks in Huberak did not offer them a state in
Speaker 2: terms of what you would consider the definition definition of
Speaker 2: a state to be, you know, and that is autonomy,
Speaker 2: that is sovereignty. They were not offering them sovereignty. They
Speaker 2: weren't offering ninety six percent of the land. They had
Speaker 2: taken such a large percentage of the of it. And
Speaker 2: what they were offering was in an even smaller percentage
Speaker 2: of what they had already taken. And they the thing
Speaker 2: they were offering again, not a state, not a state,
Speaker 2: not a sovereign autonomous state. But you know, this is
Speaker 2: a things people are willing to believe. And that's just
Speaker 2: that's the whole thing. And again I prefer to say
Speaker 2: it's the I am rubber, you are a glue tactic.
Speaker 2: But you know it's the same shit. You know, Hiszbara
Speaker 2: likes to invert the victim and the victimizer. And the
Speaker 2: reason is simple. They know that the West is much
Speaker 2: more willing to believe that Jews are the victims and
Speaker 2: Arabs are oppressors. You know, it's just it's playing on
Speaker 2: Western guilt and complicity in Europe during the Holocaust, and
Speaker 2: it's playing on kind of liberal sympathies in general, and
Speaker 2: honestly it's playing on well, who do you know if
Speaker 2: you're in the West. If you're in the West, you
Speaker 2: know some Jews, maybe you don't know Arabs. The Arabs
Speaker 2: you do know are on TV doing bad, you know,
Speaker 2: And that is one of the reasons for the effectiveness
Speaker 2: of it. And in terms of like the inversion of everything,
Speaker 2: like I think my favorite example is the is the map,
Speaker 2: So like Israel will often point to a map of
Speaker 2: the entire mina region like Middle East North Africa, and
Speaker 2: they'll highlight all of the Arab countries in green and
Speaker 2: Israel in blue to show that like, oh, Israel just
Speaker 2: a tiny is It's just a tiny strip of land.
Speaker 2: It's just a small bean, you know, surrounded by big
Speaker 2: green Arab monsters and want to kill Israel like that.
Speaker 2: Hesboro map will like often include the West Bank and
Speaker 2: the Gaza strip in green as well, and it's a
Speaker 2: way to frame the West Bank in Gaza is not
Speaker 2: just being like this you know particular thing. They will
Speaker 2: be like, no, these are part of the giant invading
Speaker 2: Arab green monster, because what they're trying to do is
Speaker 2: show the power imbalance is being completely inverted from the
Speaker 2: reality here, you know, and anyone anyone who knows you know,
Speaker 2: or anyone who's like watched the news, knows that it's
Speaker 2: ridiculously false to claim that Israel is somehow the less
Speaker 2: powerful agent here, you know, like you you don't have
Speaker 2: to have a PhD to plainly see the disproportionate power imbalance.
Speaker 2: Like there's Israel an you know, well armed military, cutting
Speaker 2: edge technology, backing and funding of the world's most powerful state,
Speaker 2: most powerful superpower, the United States, and then there is Hamas.
Speaker 2: That doesn't make Hamas the good guys or whatever I'm saying,
Speaker 2: it's just a clear indication of the power imbalance. You know,
Speaker 2: there is a clear power imbalance. And I think, like
Speaker 2: to what you were saying, the last one hundred plus
Speaker 2: days have made it perfectly clear that for all the
Speaker 2: talk of like the Arab States supporting Palestinians, like, it's
Speaker 2: clear Israel could literally genocide Palestinians in broad daylight. In
Speaker 2: the Arab States who do nothing. There is no giant
Speaker 2: Arab green monster that is protecting the Palestinian like the Palestinians.
Speaker 2: Only Arab comrades right now are the Houthis in Yemen
Speaker 2: and has Bollah in Lebanon, both of which are non
Speaker 2: government militant organizations. They are not like, it is not
Speaker 2: the State of Yemen who is supporting the Palestinians. It's
Speaker 2: not the State of Lebanon. It is these militant states
Speaker 2: within states pretty much. And yeah, so it's like you
Speaker 2: have to remember when Israel claims were just they were
Speaker 2: a small state the size of New Jersey, you know,
Speaker 2: in a tough neighborhood, and trying to make you know,
Speaker 2: the West Bank and Gaza look like the spear's tip
Speaker 2: of an Arab invasion. You have to remember that's not
Speaker 2: the case. The truth of it is is like you
Speaker 2: want to talk about how small Israel is, look how
Speaker 2: small the Gaza strip is, and that you know alone,
Speaker 2: to like look at that picture to know they are
Speaker 2: surrounded and to see that there's no way out. That
Speaker 2: I think changes the narrative for people. And it's a
Speaker 2: narrative that the Israelis don't like to show. They don't
Speaker 2: like to show the West Bank and you know, in
Speaker 2: terms of how it is cut into cantons that are
Speaker 2: basically everything is surrounded by Israeli settlements. In Israeli military.
Speaker 3: They took the best agricultural lands for themselves, you know
Speaker 3: what I mean, like they really And also I think
Speaker 3: talking about seeing the Gaza on a map, it's really
Speaker 3: infuriating to me because I feel like in the last
Speaker 3: couple of months more people have seen what Gaza looks
Speaker 3: like on a map than ever before. And we see
Speaker 3: how fucking small it is, and it's described as being
Speaker 3: five miles at one point, like from the sea to
Speaker 3: the whatever, and it's still not enough of aable, you know,
Speaker 3: it's to the wall, literally to the wall. But like
Speaker 3: it's just even seeing how mini school it is is
Speaker 3: still not enough for people to be like, oh, thirty
Speaker 3: thousand people dying in this little strip of land.
Speaker 2: We should think about that, like right, yeah, no, I
Speaker 2: mean no, it's it is it is. My point is
Speaker 2: basically to dispel the idea that, like the Hesbara has
Speaker 2: been Israel, small there or deserves support and people standing
Speaker 2: with it because small because scary, small, scary because baby puppy,
Speaker 2: because a little little you know, please help, And that
Speaker 2: visual is just such a it's such a gross lie.
Speaker 2: And you know, you've anything to make the Palestinians, you know,
Speaker 2: seem bigger than they are, is helpful for Israel, and
Speaker 2: that's why they do it. You know, this is this
Speaker 2: is a way to invert the victim and the victimizer.
Speaker 2: And it's clear as day. Other things that are clear
Speaker 2: as day, these products and services that we're going to
Speaker 2: be selling. So stick around, we'll be right back and
Speaker 2: we're back again. People in the West, by and large,
Speaker 2: prefer the Israeli explanation. They're fine living in this alternate reality.
Speaker 2: And you know, people believe it for like a variety
Speaker 2: of reasons. Some people because they were raised to believe it,
Speaker 2: some people because they just want to believe it. But
Speaker 2: I think mostly most people in the West just don't
Speaker 2: really care enough about like Palestinians to like look into
Speaker 2: it like they're you know, they're just it's one of
Speaker 2: many news stories too. I think a lot of people
Speaker 2: it's easy to put in a box and to be honest,
Speaker 2: you know, like wouldn't that be nice to be able
Speaker 2: to compartmentalize like it would for me? Shit, it would
Speaker 2: make me way less stressed if I could just not care.
Speaker 2: And that's not to like call out anyone who doesn't care,
Speaker 2: because I do think that it is absolutely human and
Speaker 2: valid to have some things that you just don't have
Speaker 2: emotional capacity to care about. I think my issue is
Speaker 2: not whether or not people are like, you know, supporting
Speaker 2: Palisine on their social media or whatnot. My issue is
Speaker 2: whether or not they're just going to allow themselves to
Speaker 2: be manipulated and then end up defending the indefensible because
Speaker 2: of it. Like if you're if you're not going to
Speaker 2: say nothing, don't do hasbara. That's my that's my feeling
Speaker 2: about it. But yeah, you know, people want to put
Speaker 2: in the box. Beyond that, I think there's also no
Speaker 2: incentive for a lot of people to believe in it,
Speaker 2: in fact, to even question who are the victims and
Speaker 2: the victimizers in the whole Israeli Palestine quote unquote conflict,
Speaker 2: Like it brings up a dark, twisted irony that most
Speaker 2: people don't even want to entertain. You know, people don't
Speaker 2: want to think about that stuff. And it also it
Speaker 2: people worry about whether or not they're going to get
Speaker 2: in trouble. And that brings me to another part of
Speaker 2: this speech I found from the Middle East Policy Council
Speaker 2: about haspara quote it also seeks to actively inculcate canons
Speaker 2: of political correctness in domestic and foreign media and audiences
Speaker 2: that will promote self censorship by them. It strives thereby
Speaker 2: to decrease the willingness of audiences to consider information linked
Speaker 2: to politically unacceptable viewpoints, individuals and groups, and to inhibit
Speaker 2: the circulation of adverse information and social networks. It focuses
Speaker 2: on limiting the receptivity of audiences to information. So hasbar
Speaker 2: is fucking orwellian? That is? I think one of the
Speaker 2: things that interests me about it a lot is how
Speaker 2: Orwellian it is. You know, it goes beyond mere branding
Speaker 2: when the Israeli government and pro Israel institutions like so
Speaker 2: effectively mold the parameters of what is and isn't politically correct,
Speaker 2: not just like in their own country, but in other
Speaker 2: countries in the West. Like, think about the self censorship
Speaker 2: that you the listener do around this issue. Think about
Speaker 2: the times you wanted to say something but didn't because
Speaker 2: you didn't know the exact right way to say it,
Speaker 2: you know, like how to put it. And like think
Speaker 2: about the times that you were reading something critical of
Speaker 2: Israel by someone you trust and agree with, and one
Speaker 2: sentence or one word or one turn of phrase triggered
Speaker 2: you into questioning not just the validity of the thing
Speaker 2: you were reading, but like the nature of the person
Speaker 2: who wrote it. Think about your reaction to me saying
Speaker 2: these things about Israel, and about how you felt when
Speaker 2: Sharene made a lot of these points on some other
Speaker 2: episode of this podcast, you know, like think about why
Speaker 2: that changes things for you. And like there was a
Speaker 2: time where I was also uncomfortable and like I would
Speaker 2: only feel comfortable at hearing criticism and doing criticism of
Speaker 2: Israel in the presence of other Jews, like it had
Speaker 2: to be in a you know, private all Jewish Facebook
Speaker 2: group or in like in person or through text messages.
Speaker 2: Like I was so suspicious of the secret motives of
Speaker 2: non Jewish people criticizing Israel, right, Like, like someone could
Speaker 2: literally say something that I one hundred percent agreed with,
Speaker 2: something that I myself had said, and then I would
Speaker 2: still get this icky feeling from them saying it, like yeah,
Speaker 2: but why are they saying it? Like why do you care?
Speaker 2: Like that is probably Hasbara's greatest success to relegate the
Speaker 2: issue of Palestinian human and civil rights to a niche
Speaker 2: subject that is best talked about in private and only
Speaker 2: by Jews. So I mean, Sharen, I know that, like
Speaker 2: for you, you've got you get shipped for this, you
Speaker 2: know I do.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I feel like I'm done qualifying in my real
Speaker 3: life especially and also just like in work. I'm done
Speaker 3: qualifying whether or not something I say is or is
Speaker 3: not whatever, because I'm if I'm even entertaining the idea
Speaker 3: that criticizing Israel is anti Semitic, that's like feeding the fire.
Speaker 3: I don't want to even bring that into I don't
Speaker 3: want to associate that religion and the state of Israel.
Speaker 3: And I feel like the more we have those disclaimers,
Speaker 3: the more it's conflated. And I've definitely, I mean, I've
Speaker 3: had a lot of anti Zionist Jewish people on this show,
Speaker 3: almost almost to like show people that like, listen to
Speaker 3: these people with actual experience.
Speaker 2: Yes, and that's not to it's not to you know,
Speaker 2: say you shouldn't. And none of this is me saying like, hey,
Speaker 2: you shouldn't listen to anti Zionist Jews or whatnot, or
Speaker 2: just like you know, like or you shouldn't be discerning
Speaker 2: about who you're getting your information for, because yeah, there
Speaker 2: are Nazis who are you know, wrap themselves in the
Speaker 2: guise of being anti Israel or like you know, anti
Speaker 2: occupation or whatnot. That none of this is putting down
Speaker 2: anyone for being discerning or being careful, but it's to
Speaker 2: say that like Hasbara has quite an effect on even
Speaker 2: the most conscious of people. Like making Zionism and Judaism
Speaker 2: synonymous and like practically indistinguishable is like one of his
Speaker 2: Bar's like greatest achievements, presenting Jewish support of Israel as
Speaker 2: monolithic save for like a few cranks you know, who
Speaker 2: are the exception that prove the rule. You know, like
Speaker 2: non Jews don't want to criticize criticize Israel because they
Speaker 2: don't want to upset their Jewish friends, or they don't
Speaker 2: want to be labeled an anti Semite. You know. It's like,
Speaker 2: you know, after the large public outcry about Israel's brutal
Speaker 2: response to the Homosteris attacks of October seventh, there was
Speaker 2: a big push among Hasbaris to frame all Jews of
Speaker 2: the world as feeling abandoned by the left and abandoned
Speaker 2: by their friends. You had people like Brett Gelman, Oh
Speaker 2: my god, from a stranger.
Speaker 3: Walking dumps, I hate him so much, Oh my.
Speaker 2: God, fucking wooly Willie over here going on Instagram being
Speaker 2: like hey, fake woke former friends, and like he gave
Speaker 2: a speech at the like Stand with Israel March that
Speaker 2: was something like the Jews don't need you, like presenting
Speaker 2: the you know, the idea of people criticizing Israel, or
Speaker 2: like not wanting at the very least not wanting the
Speaker 2: complete obliteration of Palestinians in Gaza. Framing that is like, oh, well,
Speaker 2: all the Jews want that, you know, like his whole
Speaker 2: thing of being like the Jews don't need you, as
Speaker 2: if he and Israel represented all Jews, like presenting the
Speaker 2: Jews of the world as a monolith, as if non
Speaker 2: Zionist or anti Zionist Jews don't even exist, as if
Speaker 2: we all felt this way, Like you don't want to
Speaker 2: hate Jews, do you? Of course, if you don't, then
Speaker 2: you gotta let Israel do whatever the hell it wants.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 3: I think what really bothers me about him? I mean
Speaker 3: everything bothers me about him, But like people like him,
Speaker 3: they'll sometimes preface what they're saying with hey, I care
Speaker 3: about Palestinians and then continue on their their whatever tirade.
Speaker 3: There's ionis bullshit. And it's like, it's just it really
Speaker 3: boggles my mind because I think he thinks he's a
Speaker 3: good person. I really think that he believes he's a
Speaker 3: good person when really he's just a piece of shit
Speaker 3: that does not see a huge group of people as
Speaker 3: human beings.
Speaker 2: Yes, does not see people is human. And this is
Speaker 2: something that you I think that anyone who's like a
Speaker 2: self described liberal or leftist or whatever would be able
Speaker 2: to easily recognize in any other situation. But it's just
Speaker 2: it's it's it's clouded in this particular situation because of
Speaker 2: this conflation, because you are willing to believe that Jews
Speaker 2: are sort of a mono like monolithically agree with Israel.
Speaker 2: Like they may be like a little bit like liberal
Speaker 2: Zionists or whatnot, but mostly you know, they all love Israel,
Speaker 2: and that is is is not true, and it's it's
Speaker 2: a way of like more so, it feeds into the
Speaker 2: continuing conflation. It feeds into this hasbara that Israel represents
Speaker 2: all Jews, and I am telling you right now it doesn't.
Speaker 2: And I don't think I'm telling anyone something they don't
Speaker 2: already know. Like I think people knows Zionism is not Judaism.
Speaker 3: I think I've said that many times on this podcast,
Speaker 3: trust me.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, at this point you should know.
Speaker 3: If you don't know that by now, please.
Speaker 2: Yes, learn it now. But like you know, Jews, both
Speaker 2: inside and outside of Israel, have a diverse range of
Speaker 2: views about the Israeli government. That's not to say that
Speaker 2: Jews in Israel do not, for the most part, you know,
Speaker 2: support the government at least or support the project of Zionism,
Speaker 2: but that is to like, to me, that's to be expected.
Speaker 2: It's to be expected that it's like fucking nine to eleven,
Speaker 2: you know, I it'd be weird to not expect the
Speaker 2: kind of racist jingoism that you saw like after nine
Speaker 2: to eleven, you know, in fucking America. And I feel
Speaker 2: like that was the majority of people. Was that kind
Speaker 2: of like like seething anti Arab hatred. And I'm not
Speaker 2: excusing it, But what I'm saying is that Jews have
Speaker 2: a diverse range of views inside and outside of Israel,
Speaker 2: and a lot of it includes wanting a ceasefire. And
Speaker 2: that's why you see it in these Jewish organizations that
Speaker 2: are trying to end the occupation. They're trying they are
Speaker 2: openly critiquing Israel that are calling Zionism racism. You see it,
Speaker 2: and you see it because they because we're honestly trying
Speaker 2: to change this narrative. We're trying to stop people from
Speaker 2: believing this lie that the Jewish people are synonymous with
Speaker 2: the state of Israel.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think that's why Jewish and I mean
Speaker 3: I've said this many times as well, but Jewish Antaizionists
Speaker 3: are like a very integral part of the movement to
Speaker 3: liberate Palestine because it's again, it's not a Palestinian issue,
Speaker 3: it's not a Muslim issue. It's a very human issue.
Speaker 3: Its care about people not being fucking genocided.
Speaker 2: Yes, another thing that's pretty clear is how good the
Speaker 2: products are that we sell here at Cool Zone. Let's
Speaker 2: stick around, listen to these ads and we'll.
Speaker 1: Be right back.
Speaker 2: And we're back. So I want to say to everyone listening,
Speaker 2: I understand that the impulse to treat the subject of
Speaker 2: Israel with more caution and care is rooted in respect
Speaker 2: for the Jewish people and a desire to stand firmly
Speaker 2: against anti Semitism, and that is that is a good thing.
Speaker 2: I encourage that one you respecting Jewish people and wanting
Speaker 2: to stand firmly against anti Semitism, wanting to fight it
Speaker 2: with every fiber of your being. You are correct and
Speaker 2: feeling that way, and I want to encourage it. And
Speaker 2: I also need you to understand that it's for that
Speaker 2: very reason that I urge people to speak out about Israel,
Speaker 2: because I believe Israel and they're Hasbaris mouthpieces and the
Speaker 2: project of political Zionism are inherently anti Semitic, and not
Speaker 2: in like the semantic sense where it's like Arabs are
Speaker 2: also semi So it's an argument I've heard. I'm not
Speaker 2: talking about that. I'm talking about anti Jewish, specifically anti Jewish.
Speaker 2: They actively work to create fear amongst diaspora Jews, make
Speaker 2: us distrust our friends, our neighbors, our coworkers, our fellow Jews.
Speaker 2: Even they tell us that, you know, they tell Jews
Speaker 2: that unless they support Israel, they are not real Jews,
Speaker 2: you know, or they are self hating Jews. They use
Speaker 2: our past traumas against us. They re traumatize us and
Speaker 2: manipulate us like it's classic abuser shit. It is it
Speaker 2: is abuse, it's it's cult shit too, And they even
Speaker 2: deal in Nazi revisionism. And it's it's so important to
Speaker 2: point this out because you see the way that they,
Speaker 2: the Israeli government uses the Nazi you know, accusation in
Speaker 2: order to do a genocide. I mean you see constantly,
Speaker 2: you know, in the last three four months, videos from
Speaker 2: the IDF showing, you know, an iPad they found in
Speaker 2: a teen girls bedroom, and you know, they open it
Speaker 2: up and there's the wallpaper of the iPad is is
Speaker 2: Hitler's face. And you look at that, and you're supposed
Speaker 2: to go, oh my god, I can't I can't believe that,
Speaker 2: and you forget to question what the fuck an Israeli
Speaker 2: soldier is doing in a seventeen year old girls bedroom.
Speaker 2: Why is it blown up? And why is why is
Speaker 2: he going through her stuff like that? You you stop
Speaker 2: looking at what is actually happening, and you start looking
Speaker 2: at what the Hasbaris want you to look at. They
Speaker 2: want you to see the Hitler thing and go like,
Speaker 2: oh man, this is a whole society of little Hitlers
Speaker 2: and and I you know, I look at that and
Speaker 2: I see the way they cynically use that. While at
Speaker 2: the same time, you know, Benjamin Netanyahoo has been pushing
Speaker 2: this line, claiming that the Holocaust was essentially the Palestinians idea.
Speaker 2: I mean, this is something that has been gaining more
Speaker 2: and more traction in like sort of this new Israel Palestine,
Speaker 2: like a historical narrative that's been pushed about, like you know,
Speaker 2: the Mufti and is and and Hitler meeting up together
Speaker 2: and being like have you ever thought about killing the Jews?
Speaker 2: And Hitler was like I never thought about that before.
Speaker 2: It's that's so smart. Wow, thank you. So Palestinians like
Speaker 2: total bullshit, totally revising, like trying to do fucking like
Speaker 2: I don't know apologya for literally Hitler is anti Semitic.
Speaker 2: I don't care how you slice it. It is. And
Speaker 2: that's something that the Israeli government deals in. They deal
Speaker 2: in anti Semitism all the time. I mean essentially, Israel
Speaker 2: tells the world that Jews are a third column, loyal
Speaker 2: to Israel first and foremost, and tells Jews that our
Speaker 2: home isn't our home. They say this to us, and
Speaker 2: you know that due to our traditions and our blood,
Speaker 2: you know, we are just merely guests in any other place.
Speaker 2: This is like an old racist worldview. From a previous
Speaker 2: century filled with blood and soil fascism, you know, and
Speaker 2: like for me, like growing up in a mixed secular family,
Speaker 2: you know, where I'm like, yeah, I'm like culturally Jewish
Speaker 2: and I'm ethnically Jewish, but I'm like a blood jew essentially,
Speaker 2: you know, like and as like the very fact of
Speaker 2: me having Jewish blood was used by fascists to murder
Speaker 2: us during the Holocaust. Now under Israel's Law of Return,
Speaker 2: that very same Jewish blood is being used by fascists
Speaker 2: as a passport to allow me to move to Israel
Speaker 2: and displace an entire Palestinian family if I choose to, like,
Speaker 2: you know, being religiously Jewish doesn't have anything to do
Speaker 2: with my ability to do this, and my blood is
Speaker 2: my passport to do apartheid. That's why I choose to
Speaker 2: talk about this stuff. You know, if you're going to
Speaker 2: use my blood to make me complicit in crimes, the
Speaker 2: crimes of your state, then I'm gonna have something to
Speaker 2: fucking say about it, you know. So my final piece
Speaker 2: of Haspara has to do with something that has been
Speaker 2: said over and over again by countless zionussing the current
Speaker 2: president of these United States of America, Joe Biden.
Speaker 1: Folks, were there no Israel, there wouldn't be a Jewish
Speaker 1: the world was safe.
Speaker 2: The idea that the state of Israel alone can keep
Speaker 2: the Jewish people safe is an insane piece of hasbara.
Speaker 2: It is total, utter anti Semitic bullshit. A Jewish state
Speaker 2: does not and cannot keep Jewish people safe. Tying the
Speaker 2: fate of the Jewish state to the Jewish people is
Speaker 2: a recipe for fucking disaster. The Jewish people are a
Speaker 2: nation that has lasted thousands of years. Nations meaning like
Speaker 2: a people with a common origin, history, language, culture, customs,
Speaker 2: and religion and or religion. You know, it can be
Speaker 2: any of those things. And for a long long time
Speaker 2: we were one of many stateless nations that existed. And
Speaker 2: that's not to say that you know, Israel show and
Speaker 2: exists or whatever. But more importantly on what I'm saying
Speaker 2: is that Jews should exist, whether they happen to be
Speaker 2: located anywhere, like wherever they are, Jews should should exist.
Speaker 2: The existence of the state of Israel, to me, is
Speaker 2: not the question, and that is not what Israel claims
Speaker 2: to do. They ensure They claim to ensure the existence
Speaker 2: of the Jewish people. But they do not. All they
Speaker 2: do is try to bolster the existence of their state.
Speaker 2: And it should not be common thought that the existence
Speaker 2: of Israel and the existence of Jews are the same thing.
Speaker 2: As I can personally think of nothing more dangerous for
Speaker 2: any people than to tie their entire survival to something
Speaker 2: as impermanent as a fucking state. And that is the
Speaker 2: truth about Israel. So you know, all this to say
Speaker 2: that I'm a I guess I'm an anarchist. Now there's
Speaker 2: one thing that you know, getting into the whole Israel
Speaker 2: Palestine thing will do to you. It turns you very
Speaker 2: quickly into someone who believes the existence of states is
Speaker 2: the problem. Yeah, yeah, so that's that's me. That's how
Speaker 2: I feel about stuff.
Speaker 3: I'm so glad you did this series for us. Where
Speaker 3: can't people hear you do the same thing? But what
Speaker 3: by yourself?
Speaker 2: With other people? You can? You can hear me? Do
Speaker 2: you know these talking about Israel and stuff? On my
Speaker 2: new podcast Bad Hasbara, the World's Most Moral podcast. It's
Speaker 2: a it's a comedy podcast about hilarious Israeli propaganda that
Speaker 2: I that I find that are you know, listeners find
Speaker 2: and you know I have on my friends like Sharine,
Speaker 2: I had you on, I had Anna on, I had
Speaker 2: all sorts of great anti Zionist Jews and some really
Speaker 2: amazing Palestinian guests. Or at least by the time this
Speaker 2: comes out, I assume those episodes will have come out.
Speaker 2: I you know, I don't know when those are coming out.
Speaker 2: But anyways, I've only been doing the podcast for a
Speaker 2: month and it's been a lot of fun. It's been cathartic,
Speaker 2: and it's been hard, and it's definitely been you know,
Speaker 2: like caused some stress in my life because you know,
Speaker 2: looking for this content you have to dig through a
Speaker 2: lot of really horrific shit. So yeah, check out bad
Speaker 2: Asbara or you know, check me out met leave jokes
Speaker 2: on Instagram, and go to a Sacramento punchline March seventeenth, Sunday,
Speaker 2: seven pm. Me and my wife, my wife ran Jessica Ifi'rentini.
Speaker 2: We're gonna be co headlining there, so get your tickets now.
Speaker 2: Link in the notes.
Speaker 3: Yay, No, thank you so much. I really enjoy your podcast,
Speaker 3: the most sporal podcast I would.
Speaker 2: Say in the world. Sure, thank you for you know,
Speaker 2: give me the opportunity to talk about this and you know,
Speaker 2: I I promise you that the show, The Badass Bar
Speaker 2: Show is funny. I swear to god, it's funny.
Speaker 3: It's very cathartic. You are you're correct in that. It's
Speaker 3: very cathartic to just like event with your friends and
Speaker 3: people think the same things as you, especially if you're
Speaker 3: surrounded by someone or people that are kind of.
Speaker 2: Purposely ignorant or whatever.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: So, yeah, when you're surrounded by people who don't want
Speaker 2: to either don't want to engage with this at all,
Speaker 2: or I'm mad at you for even partially engaging with it,
Speaker 2: it's nice to find the people that you know in
Speaker 2: love and like to joke around with and be like,
Speaker 2: we're we're not crazy, right exactly, and then we go, yeah,
Speaker 2: we're not, and then we have a good time. Yeah,
Speaker 2: check that out, and thank you, and thank you to
Speaker 2: everyone at cool Zon Media.
Speaker 1: Yay.
Speaker 3: Yeah, go follow Matt, go see me in Matt and
Speaker 3: and his uh my crush his wife, don't tell her,
Speaker 3: And yeah, they're they're really doing the work. And I
Speaker 3: really appreciate both of you guys just being really outspoken always,
Speaker 3: and so yeah, follow their lead. Keep talking about Palestine.
Speaker 3: There's still a fucking genocide happening, and that's the episode.
Speaker 2: All right, bye everyone.
Speaker 3: Hie Pree Palestine pre Palestine.
Speaker 1: It Could Happen Here as a production of cool Zone Media.
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Speaker 1: You can find sources for It Could Happen Here, updated
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