1 00:00:01,760 --> 00:00:05,680 Speaker 1: Also media. 2 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:09,920 Speaker 2: Hey everyone, welcome to it could happen here. I am 3 00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:16,240 Speaker 2: your guest host, Matt Leeb back again with sharene Unas. 4 00:00:16,280 --> 00:00:16,960 Speaker 2: What's up, Cheren? 5 00:00:18,239 --> 00:00:19,120 Speaker 3: Nothing? This? 6 00:00:19,120 --> 00:00:20,800 Speaker 2: This is this? Yeah? This is what's y? 7 00:00:21,280 --> 00:00:21,320 Speaker 1: No. 8 00:00:21,520 --> 00:00:23,959 Speaker 3: I happy to be happy to be back. Hopefully you 9 00:00:23,960 --> 00:00:27,200 Speaker 3: guys listen to part one already of Matt. Yeah, really 10 00:00:27,240 --> 00:00:29,840 Speaker 3: cool little series we got going on here. But if 11 00:00:29,840 --> 00:00:33,600 Speaker 3: you haven't listened to that first, and then we're continuing 12 00:00:34,120 --> 00:00:37,600 Speaker 3: this Hasbara, this Hasbara journey. 13 00:00:37,760 --> 00:00:42,519 Speaker 2: Yeah, this Hasbara train stops for no man uh. Yeah, 14 00:00:42,560 --> 00:00:46,360 Speaker 2: So this is part two of this series about Hasbara 15 00:00:47,040 --> 00:00:52,840 Speaker 2: once again. Hesbara is basically just means to explain, and 16 00:00:52,960 --> 00:00:57,280 Speaker 2: we're talking about Israeli propaganda and beyond not just propaganda, 17 00:00:57,360 --> 00:00:58,520 Speaker 2: but so much more. 18 00:00:59,040 --> 00:00:59,200 Speaker 1: So. 19 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:02,040 Speaker 2: We're going to talk a little bit about the myths 20 00:01:02,040 --> 00:01:05,679 Speaker 2: about Israel that have kind of like gained a foothold 21 00:01:05,959 --> 00:01:09,959 Speaker 2: in Western public consciousness to a degree that it's like 22 00:01:10,720 --> 00:01:13,240 Speaker 2: not just a foothold, but it's just kind of things 23 00:01:13,240 --> 00:01:17,959 Speaker 2: that we commonly think are facts. So like if you 24 00:01:18,000 --> 00:01:21,240 Speaker 2: grew up in Zionism, which is like if you don't know, 25 00:01:21,280 --> 00:01:24,320 Speaker 2: that's a political ideology that birth the state of Israel, 26 00:01:24,640 --> 00:01:27,800 Speaker 2: you have probably heard a lot of your teachers, your rabbis, 27 00:01:27,959 --> 00:01:32,600 Speaker 2: your friends, your family, your Israeli friends, your Israeli family 28 00:01:32,840 --> 00:01:36,280 Speaker 2: talking about how it's your responsibility to explain Israel to 29 00:01:36,520 --> 00:01:40,680 Speaker 2: the people, and growing up, you don't actually know that 30 00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:44,440 Speaker 2: what you're doing is propaganda, like you think you're just 31 00:01:45,240 --> 00:01:48,720 Speaker 2: you know that you know more than most people because 32 00:01:48,720 --> 00:01:52,560 Speaker 2: everyone else is getting their information from anti Semites. You know, 33 00:01:52,800 --> 00:01:57,160 Speaker 2: you think like you've got the real scoop and that 34 00:01:57,240 --> 00:02:03,040 Speaker 2: most people are just you know, born ignorance and biased 35 00:02:03,080 --> 00:02:06,160 Speaker 2: against Jews. And you don't have to be Jewish to 36 00:02:06,240 --> 00:02:08,760 Speaker 2: have been exposed to espara. Chances are that if you 37 00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:11,959 Speaker 2: grew up in the West, you probably hold several views 38 00:02:11,960 --> 00:02:16,360 Speaker 2: about Israel that are the result of decades long pr campaigns. 39 00:02:16,360 --> 00:02:19,240 Speaker 2: So what I'm gonna do now is a lightning round 40 00:02:19,280 --> 00:02:24,080 Speaker 2: of myth busting. This is just like real quick getting 41 00:02:24,120 --> 00:02:27,640 Speaker 2: into some of the I don't know, some of the 42 00:02:27,680 --> 00:02:32,160 Speaker 2: most pervasive things that I think each one could be 43 00:02:32,200 --> 00:02:35,480 Speaker 2: an entire episode. But you know, listen, this is your guys, 44 00:02:35,560 --> 00:02:38,960 Speaker 2: pot this isn't my podcast. I can't just take it 45 00:02:38,960 --> 00:02:41,040 Speaker 2: away from you. So I'm just gonna do a lightning 46 00:02:41,080 --> 00:02:42,640 Speaker 2: round with you are you ready. 47 00:02:42,360 --> 00:02:44,760 Speaker 3: Sharen, oh Born Ready, Let's do it. 48 00:02:44,800 --> 00:02:49,640 Speaker 2: Okay. Israel is not a land without a people for 49 00:02:49,680 --> 00:02:54,040 Speaker 2: a people without land. Okay, there were people there. I 50 00:02:54,080 --> 00:02:56,480 Speaker 2: don't know if you know that Palestinians were there and 51 00:02:56,639 --> 00:03:00,839 Speaker 2: seven hundred and fifty thousand were expelled innineteen forty eight. 52 00:03:01,360 --> 00:03:04,400 Speaker 2: This whole conflict has not been going on for hundreds 53 00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:07,560 Speaker 2: of years. It is very very modern, and it has 54 00:03:07,639 --> 00:03:11,240 Speaker 2: nothing to do with an ancient religious rivalry. So when 55 00:03:11,280 --> 00:03:14,760 Speaker 2: someone says, oh, they've been killing each other for thousands 56 00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:19,080 Speaker 2: of yet, no, no, not even a little no, that 57 00:03:19,240 --> 00:03:22,639 Speaker 2: is not a thing. Israel quote lives in a tough 58 00:03:22,680 --> 00:03:26,640 Speaker 2: neighborhood and it must act tough to survive. That is 59 00:03:26,760 --> 00:03:31,280 Speaker 2: just regular ass racism and orientalism, the idea that they 60 00:03:31,560 --> 00:03:34,440 Speaker 2: just you know, you have to be tough, you know, 61 00:03:34,520 --> 00:03:38,640 Speaker 2: I mean, listen, A tough neighborhood is very much that 62 00:03:38,760 --> 00:03:41,800 Speaker 2: is translated for an American, a white American audience. You 63 00:03:41,880 --> 00:03:44,720 Speaker 2: know what I mean. What is a tough neighborhood. It's 64 00:03:44,720 --> 00:03:48,640 Speaker 2: one with a lot of people of color. Here's another one. 65 00:03:48,760 --> 00:03:51,840 Speaker 2: There are plenty of Arab states. Why can't they just 66 00:03:51,920 --> 00:03:56,280 Speaker 2: go there again? This is a weird racist, dehumanizing thing 67 00:03:56,360 --> 00:04:00,360 Speaker 2: to tell someone whose house you just bulldozed, like, you know, 68 00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:03,760 Speaker 2: whenever you see them, like doing a big zoom ount 69 00:04:04,120 --> 00:04:07,040 Speaker 2: where they go, like there's only one Jewish state and 70 00:04:07,080 --> 00:04:10,720 Speaker 2: there's all these Arab states. You know, it's like no, no, no, personally, 71 00:04:10,840 --> 00:04:13,760 Speaker 2: what happened here, don't don't you know? It's like you 72 00:04:14,360 --> 00:04:19,760 Speaker 2: guy had house, Army took house, moved him to other area. 73 00:04:20,480 --> 00:04:25,120 Speaker 2: That is wrong, period. You can't just say go to 74 00:04:25,360 --> 00:04:29,400 Speaker 2: another Arab country. That's that's just racism. Here's another one. 75 00:04:30,600 --> 00:04:36,159 Speaker 2: It's too complicated. No, it is not. Switch the roles 76 00:04:36,200 --> 00:04:40,520 Speaker 2: in your head. Use your brain for a second. Switch 77 00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:43,440 Speaker 2: the roles of Jews and Palestinians in your head, and 78 00:04:43,480 --> 00:04:46,760 Speaker 2: you'll have an easier time condemning the side that has 79 00:04:47,320 --> 00:04:52,680 Speaker 2: powerful government and army whose crimes include genocide, apartheid, at 80 00:04:52,760 --> 00:04:57,919 Speaker 2: nick cleansing, military occupation, and religious slash, racist settler terrorism. 81 00:04:58,360 --> 00:05:01,360 Speaker 2: That is not complicated. If it were the Jews who 82 00:05:01,440 --> 00:05:06,120 Speaker 2: lived in Gaza getting bombed mercilessly, you would not have 83 00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:09,520 Speaker 2: a problem saying what was happening was genocide. You just 84 00:05:09,560 --> 00:05:13,360 Speaker 2: wouldn't just do that in your head. All right, here's 85 00:05:13,360 --> 00:05:17,680 Speaker 2: another one. Zionism is an indigenous rights movement. No, it's 86 00:05:17,680 --> 00:05:23,400 Speaker 2: fucking not. It's not. It is a settler colonialist movement. 87 00:05:24,080 --> 00:05:26,599 Speaker 2: That is something that was made explicitly clear by the 88 00:05:26,680 --> 00:05:30,480 Speaker 2: creators of modern Zionism. They not only talked about like 89 00:05:30,760 --> 00:05:35,080 Speaker 2: settling and colonizing Palestine, but they referred to the Arab 90 00:05:35,160 --> 00:05:40,880 Speaker 2: occupants there as the indigenous population. They they said indigenous. 91 00:05:40,880 --> 00:05:45,359 Speaker 2: They God, it just pisses me off. And also the 92 00:05:45,400 --> 00:05:49,560 Speaker 2: indigenous argument is like, way, I just hate it in 93 00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:52,640 Speaker 2: general when people go back and forth about who is 94 00:05:52,680 --> 00:05:56,640 Speaker 2: indigenous there, because it's so academic. It's like it's dehumanizing 95 00:05:57,160 --> 00:06:00,600 Speaker 2: and it obfuscates the whole thing because once again it 96 00:06:00,720 --> 00:06:04,240 Speaker 2: is just Palestinians being like I want to be able 97 00:06:04,279 --> 00:06:06,200 Speaker 2: to vote, I want to have my house back. I 98 00:06:06,279 --> 00:06:08,760 Speaker 2: literally have the key to my house. And yes, many 99 00:06:08,760 --> 00:06:10,880 Speaker 2: of them literally still have the keys to their house. 100 00:06:11,160 --> 00:06:16,720 Speaker 2: All right, there's there's so many there's so many goddamn 101 00:06:16,760 --> 00:06:20,200 Speaker 2: myths and propaganda that I just like that. I started 102 00:06:20,200 --> 00:06:23,719 Speaker 2: a podcast about it. That's that's that's why. But like 103 00:06:23,800 --> 00:06:25,560 Speaker 2: much of the stuff that you take for granted is 104 00:06:25,640 --> 00:06:29,240 Speaker 2: fact is not only a historic but like wildly so, 105 00:06:30,240 --> 00:06:36,520 Speaker 2: like the IDF outnumbered the Arab States armies during the 106 00:06:36,520 --> 00:06:39,920 Speaker 2: war forty eight. That is literally, they say the opposite 107 00:06:40,560 --> 00:06:42,760 Speaker 2: in the you know, nineteen forty eight story of the 108 00:06:42,760 --> 00:06:46,359 Speaker 2: creation of Israel. It's like un created Israel. All the 109 00:06:46,400 --> 00:06:50,320 Speaker 2: Arab states attacked. That is not actually what happened. Were 110 00:06:50,360 --> 00:06:52,240 Speaker 2: not just that all the Arab states attack, but that 111 00:06:52,680 --> 00:06:57,600 Speaker 2: Israel and the IDEF overcame this gigantic horde of Arab armies. 112 00:06:58,160 --> 00:07:01,440 Speaker 2: The Arab armies that were in this fight are far 113 00:07:01,520 --> 00:07:03,920 Speaker 2: fewer than have been reported. You know, they say it's 114 00:07:03,920 --> 00:07:06,719 Speaker 2: like seven, It was more like four, and only three 115 00:07:06,760 --> 00:07:09,480 Speaker 2: of them. Only one of them had any sort of 116 00:07:09,520 --> 00:07:13,600 Speaker 2: like modern military capabilities. The rest were not really armies. 117 00:07:14,800 --> 00:07:18,480 Speaker 2: And also they outnumbered the idea of outnumbered these armies 118 00:07:19,560 --> 00:07:22,040 Speaker 2: in nineteen sixty seven. Here's another one. Is it all 119 00:07:22,080 --> 00:07:24,840 Speaker 2: attacked first in nineteen sixty seven. It was a preemptive 120 00:07:24,880 --> 00:07:28,800 Speaker 2: strike like famously, and yet the you know, once again, 121 00:07:28,880 --> 00:07:33,000 Speaker 2: the narrative around the nineteen sixty seven Six Day War 122 00:07:33,320 --> 00:07:35,240 Speaker 2: is that, you know, is Youra all minding its own 123 00:07:35,280 --> 00:07:39,280 Speaker 2: business and then Egypt, along with the other Arabs, yea 124 00:07:39,920 --> 00:07:45,080 Speaker 2: evil Arabs, attacked the Israeli army struck first. That is 125 00:07:45,480 --> 00:07:49,280 Speaker 2: a fact that they talk about, and there's it's also 126 00:07:49,760 --> 00:07:53,280 Speaker 2: very very much disputed as to whether or not the 127 00:07:53,680 --> 00:07:58,080 Speaker 2: Egyptian army was going to attack at all. But you know, 128 00:07:58,120 --> 00:08:02,280 Speaker 2: there's no room for narrative because it, you know, fucks 129 00:08:02,360 --> 00:08:07,920 Speaker 2: up the glorious story of what became the occupation of 130 00:08:07,960 --> 00:08:11,720 Speaker 2: the West Bank and Gaza. Another one, a hud Barak 131 00:08:12,400 --> 00:08:17,400 Speaker 2: absolutely did not offer the Palestinians estate during Oslo. He 132 00:08:17,480 --> 00:08:20,840 Speaker 2: did not, nor did he offer ninety six percent of 133 00:08:20,880 --> 00:08:24,640 Speaker 2: the West Bank. And no, Israel did not invent the 134 00:08:24,760 --> 00:08:26,320 Speaker 2: fucking cherry tomato. 135 00:08:26,760 --> 00:08:27,480 Speaker 3: Wait they did it. 136 00:08:28,080 --> 00:08:32,760 Speaker 2: No, they did not. There was a Haretz article about 137 00:08:32,760 --> 00:08:34,920 Speaker 2: it where they're like, no, we didn't. Why do we 138 00:08:35,000 --> 00:08:38,440 Speaker 2: keep saying this we didn't do this? Oh my god, 139 00:08:38,559 --> 00:08:39,599 Speaker 2: that's so funny. No. 140 00:08:39,720 --> 00:08:42,360 Speaker 3: I mean, so many of these talking points are some 141 00:08:42,400 --> 00:08:45,079 Speaker 3: of the main arguments that Zionis will use to be like, well, 142 00:08:45,120 --> 00:08:47,719 Speaker 3: they rejected this and this is what happened here, and 143 00:08:47,720 --> 00:08:50,880 Speaker 3: it's just like these are all incorrect. You're just like 144 00:08:50,920 --> 00:08:53,400 Speaker 3: regurgitating hsbara. 145 00:08:53,600 --> 00:08:56,360 Speaker 2: Right, And it's because that his Bara has been so 146 00:08:56,840 --> 00:09:00,720 Speaker 2: widely repeated and so often that it just kind of 147 00:09:00,800 --> 00:09:04,800 Speaker 2: sinks in Huberak did not offer them a state in 148 00:09:04,920 --> 00:09:08,280 Speaker 2: terms of what you would consider the definition definition of 149 00:09:08,320 --> 00:09:11,800 Speaker 2: a state to be, you know, and that is autonomy, 150 00:09:11,960 --> 00:09:15,240 Speaker 2: that is sovereignty. They were not offering them sovereignty. They 151 00:09:15,240 --> 00:09:18,560 Speaker 2: weren't offering ninety six percent of the land. They had 152 00:09:18,640 --> 00:09:21,760 Speaker 2: taken such a large percentage of the of it. And 153 00:09:21,800 --> 00:09:24,679 Speaker 2: what they were offering was in an even smaller percentage 154 00:09:25,240 --> 00:09:30,719 Speaker 2: of what they had already taken. And they the thing 155 00:09:30,720 --> 00:09:33,160 Speaker 2: they were offering again, not a state, not a state, 156 00:09:33,280 --> 00:09:38,560 Speaker 2: not a sovereign autonomous state. But you know, this is 157 00:09:38,640 --> 00:09:40,840 Speaker 2: a things people are willing to believe. And that's just 158 00:09:41,960 --> 00:09:44,199 Speaker 2: that's the whole thing. And again I prefer to say 159 00:09:44,240 --> 00:09:46,720 Speaker 2: it's the I am rubber, you are a glue tactic. 160 00:09:46,880 --> 00:09:49,679 Speaker 2: But you know it's the same shit. You know, Hiszbara 161 00:09:50,720 --> 00:09:55,120 Speaker 2: likes to invert the victim and the victimizer. And the 162 00:09:55,200 --> 00:09:58,080 Speaker 2: reason is simple. They know that the West is much 163 00:09:58,080 --> 00:10:00,760 Speaker 2: more willing to believe that Jews are the victims and 164 00:10:00,800 --> 00:10:07,360 Speaker 2: Arabs are oppressors. You know, it's just it's playing on 165 00:10:08,240 --> 00:10:13,720 Speaker 2: Western guilt and complicity in Europe during the Holocaust, and 166 00:10:13,760 --> 00:10:16,640 Speaker 2: it's playing on kind of liberal sympathies in general, and 167 00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:19,320 Speaker 2: honestly it's playing on well, who do you know if 168 00:10:19,360 --> 00:10:21,680 Speaker 2: you're in the West. If you're in the West, you 169 00:10:21,760 --> 00:10:25,920 Speaker 2: know some Jews, maybe you don't know Arabs. The Arabs 170 00:10:25,960 --> 00:10:30,120 Speaker 2: you do know are on TV doing bad, you know, 171 00:10:31,280 --> 00:10:35,280 Speaker 2: And that is one of the reasons for the effectiveness 172 00:10:35,280 --> 00:10:38,760 Speaker 2: of it. And in terms of like the inversion of everything, 173 00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:42,920 Speaker 2: like I think my favorite example is the is the map, 174 00:10:43,280 --> 00:10:47,760 Speaker 2: So like Israel will often point to a map of 175 00:10:47,800 --> 00:10:51,840 Speaker 2: the entire mina region like Middle East North Africa, and 176 00:10:51,880 --> 00:10:55,600 Speaker 2: they'll highlight all of the Arab countries in green and 177 00:10:55,800 --> 00:10:59,440 Speaker 2: Israel in blue to show that like, oh, Israel just 178 00:10:59,480 --> 00:11:01,880 Speaker 2: a tiny is It's just a tiny strip of land. 179 00:11:01,920 --> 00:11:04,800 Speaker 2: It's just a small bean, you know, surrounded by big 180 00:11:04,840 --> 00:11:09,880 Speaker 2: green Arab monsters and want to kill Israel like that. 181 00:11:10,280 --> 00:11:13,360 Speaker 2: Hesboro map will like often include the West Bank and 182 00:11:13,400 --> 00:11:16,920 Speaker 2: the Gaza strip in green as well, and it's a 183 00:11:16,920 --> 00:11:19,200 Speaker 2: way to frame the West Bank in Gaza is not 184 00:11:19,280 --> 00:11:23,320 Speaker 2: just being like this you know particular thing. They will 185 00:11:23,520 --> 00:11:26,960 Speaker 2: be like, no, these are part of the giant invading 186 00:11:27,160 --> 00:11:30,640 Speaker 2: Arab green monster, because what they're trying to do is 187 00:11:30,679 --> 00:11:33,480 Speaker 2: show the power imbalance is being completely inverted from the 188 00:11:33,520 --> 00:11:37,600 Speaker 2: reality here, you know, and anyone anyone who knows you know, 189 00:11:37,760 --> 00:11:42,079 Speaker 2: or anyone who's like watched the news, knows that it's 190 00:11:42,160 --> 00:11:47,439 Speaker 2: ridiculously false to claim that Israel is somehow the less 191 00:11:47,520 --> 00:11:51,200 Speaker 2: powerful agent here, you know, like you you don't have 192 00:11:51,240 --> 00:11:56,520 Speaker 2: to have a PhD to plainly see the disproportionate power imbalance. 193 00:11:57,200 --> 00:12:03,920 Speaker 2: Like there's Israel an you know, well armed military, cutting 194 00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:09,240 Speaker 2: edge technology, backing and funding of the world's most powerful state, 195 00:12:09,520 --> 00:12:14,199 Speaker 2: most powerful superpower, the United States, and then there is Hamas. 196 00:12:14,480 --> 00:12:17,720 Speaker 2: That doesn't make Hamas the good guys or whatever I'm saying, 197 00:12:17,760 --> 00:12:21,400 Speaker 2: it's just a clear indication of the power imbalance. You know, 198 00:12:21,480 --> 00:12:25,880 Speaker 2: there is a clear power imbalance. And I think, like 199 00:12:26,640 --> 00:12:29,360 Speaker 2: to what you were saying, the last one hundred plus 200 00:12:29,400 --> 00:12:31,280 Speaker 2: days have made it perfectly clear that for all the 201 00:12:31,320 --> 00:12:35,200 Speaker 2: talk of like the Arab States supporting Palestinians, like, it's 202 00:12:35,200 --> 00:12:38,679 Speaker 2: clear Israel could literally genocide Palestinians in broad daylight. In 203 00:12:38,720 --> 00:12:40,920 Speaker 2: the Arab States who do nothing. There is no giant 204 00:12:40,960 --> 00:12:45,400 Speaker 2: Arab green monster that is protecting the Palestinian like the Palestinians. 205 00:12:45,440 --> 00:12:48,680 Speaker 2: Only Arab comrades right now are the Houthis in Yemen 206 00:12:49,200 --> 00:12:52,560 Speaker 2: and has Bollah in Lebanon, both of which are non 207 00:12:52,840 --> 00:12:57,000 Speaker 2: government militant organizations. They are not like, it is not 208 00:12:57,080 --> 00:13:02,280 Speaker 2: the State of Yemen who is supporting the Palestinians. It's 209 00:13:02,280 --> 00:13:05,319 Speaker 2: not the State of Lebanon. It is these militant states 210 00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:09,160 Speaker 2: within states pretty much. And yeah, so it's like you 211 00:13:09,160 --> 00:13:11,920 Speaker 2: have to remember when Israel claims were just they were 212 00:13:11,960 --> 00:13:14,360 Speaker 2: a small state the size of New Jersey, you know, 213 00:13:14,400 --> 00:13:17,480 Speaker 2: in a tough neighborhood, and trying to make you know, 214 00:13:17,960 --> 00:13:22,600 Speaker 2: the West Bank and Gaza look like the spear's tip 215 00:13:22,800 --> 00:13:25,560 Speaker 2: of an Arab invasion. You have to remember that's not 216 00:13:25,679 --> 00:13:28,400 Speaker 2: the case. The truth of it is is like you 217 00:13:28,440 --> 00:13:31,000 Speaker 2: want to talk about how small Israel is, look how 218 00:13:31,080 --> 00:13:35,720 Speaker 2: small the Gaza strip is, and that you know alone, 219 00:13:35,760 --> 00:13:38,480 Speaker 2: to like look at that picture to know they are 220 00:13:38,520 --> 00:13:43,680 Speaker 2: surrounded and to see that there's no way out. That 221 00:13:44,040 --> 00:13:46,840 Speaker 2: I think changes the narrative for people. And it's a 222 00:13:46,920 --> 00:13:49,680 Speaker 2: narrative that the Israelis don't like to show. They don't 223 00:13:49,720 --> 00:13:53,040 Speaker 2: like to show the West Bank and you know, in 224 00:13:53,120 --> 00:13:56,920 Speaker 2: terms of how it is cut into cantons that are 225 00:13:56,960 --> 00:14:04,160 Speaker 2: basically everything is surrounded by Israeli settlements. In Israeli military. 226 00:14:04,240 --> 00:14:07,120 Speaker 3: They took the best agricultural lands for themselves, you know 227 00:14:07,160 --> 00:14:09,959 Speaker 3: what I mean, like they really And also I think 228 00:14:10,400 --> 00:14:13,560 Speaker 3: talking about seeing the Gaza on a map, it's really 229 00:14:14,400 --> 00:14:16,199 Speaker 3: infuriating to me because I feel like in the last 230 00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:19,200 Speaker 3: couple of months more people have seen what Gaza looks 231 00:14:19,240 --> 00:14:21,560 Speaker 3: like on a map than ever before. And we see 232 00:14:21,560 --> 00:14:23,920 Speaker 3: how fucking small it is, and it's described as being 233 00:14:23,960 --> 00:14:27,440 Speaker 3: five miles at one point, like from the sea to 234 00:14:27,520 --> 00:14:30,840 Speaker 3: the whatever, and it's still not enough of aable, you know, 235 00:14:30,960 --> 00:14:33,040 Speaker 3: it's to the wall, literally to the wall. But like 236 00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:36,640 Speaker 3: it's just even seeing how mini school it is is 237 00:14:36,640 --> 00:14:41,040 Speaker 3: still not enough for people to be like, oh, thirty 238 00:14:41,120 --> 00:14:43,560 Speaker 3: thousand people dying in this little strip of land. 239 00:14:43,840 --> 00:14:47,280 Speaker 2: We should think about that, like right, yeah, no, I 240 00:14:47,320 --> 00:14:52,680 Speaker 2: mean no, it's it is it is. My point is 241 00:14:52,760 --> 00:14:58,040 Speaker 2: basically to dispel the idea that, like the Hesbara has 242 00:14:58,120 --> 00:15:04,000 Speaker 2: been Israel, small there or deserves support and people standing 243 00:15:04,040 --> 00:15:09,400 Speaker 2: with it because small because scary, small, scary because baby puppy, 244 00:15:09,680 --> 00:15:14,880 Speaker 2: because a little little you know, please help, And that 245 00:15:15,160 --> 00:15:18,400 Speaker 2: visual is just such a it's such a gross lie. 246 00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:26,080 Speaker 2: And you know, you've anything to make the Palestinians, you know, 247 00:15:26,280 --> 00:15:31,080 Speaker 2: seem bigger than they are, is helpful for Israel, and 248 00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:33,600 Speaker 2: that's why they do it. You know, this is this 249 00:15:33,800 --> 00:15:37,160 Speaker 2: is a way to invert the victim and the victimizer. 250 00:15:37,520 --> 00:15:41,120 Speaker 2: And it's clear as day. Other things that are clear 251 00:15:41,160 --> 00:15:45,360 Speaker 2: as day, these products and services that we're going to 252 00:15:45,400 --> 00:16:01,400 Speaker 2: be selling. So stick around, we'll be right back and 253 00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:06,640 Speaker 2: we're back again. People in the West, by and large, 254 00:16:06,680 --> 00:16:12,840 Speaker 2: prefer the Israeli explanation. They're fine living in this alternate reality. 255 00:16:13,640 --> 00:16:15,920 Speaker 2: And you know, people believe it for like a variety 256 00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:19,760 Speaker 2: of reasons. Some people because they were raised to believe it, 257 00:16:19,880 --> 00:16:23,440 Speaker 2: some people because they just want to believe it. But 258 00:16:23,520 --> 00:16:26,360 Speaker 2: I think mostly most people in the West just don't 259 00:16:27,360 --> 00:16:30,840 Speaker 2: really care enough about like Palestinians to like look into 260 00:16:30,880 --> 00:16:33,760 Speaker 2: it like they're you know, they're just it's one of 261 00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:36,440 Speaker 2: many news stories too. I think a lot of people 262 00:16:36,880 --> 00:16:39,200 Speaker 2: it's easy to put in a box and to be honest, 263 00:16:39,320 --> 00:16:42,680 Speaker 2: you know, like wouldn't that be nice to be able 264 00:16:42,720 --> 00:16:46,280 Speaker 2: to compartmentalize like it would for me? Shit, it would 265 00:16:46,280 --> 00:16:49,200 Speaker 2: make me way less stressed if I could just not care. 266 00:16:49,640 --> 00:16:52,440 Speaker 2: And that's not to like call out anyone who doesn't care, 267 00:16:53,080 --> 00:16:56,960 Speaker 2: because I do think that it is absolutely human and 268 00:16:57,040 --> 00:17:01,320 Speaker 2: valid to have some things that you just don't have 269 00:17:01,360 --> 00:17:05,359 Speaker 2: emotional capacity to care about. I think my issue is 270 00:17:05,400 --> 00:17:11,000 Speaker 2: not whether or not people are like, you know, supporting 271 00:17:11,040 --> 00:17:14,199 Speaker 2: Palisine on their social media or whatnot. My issue is 272 00:17:14,800 --> 00:17:17,239 Speaker 2: whether or not they're just going to allow themselves to 273 00:17:17,240 --> 00:17:22,200 Speaker 2: be manipulated and then end up defending the indefensible because 274 00:17:22,240 --> 00:17:24,399 Speaker 2: of it. Like if you're if you're not going to 275 00:17:24,440 --> 00:17:28,280 Speaker 2: say nothing, don't do hasbara. That's my that's my feeling 276 00:17:28,280 --> 00:17:31,320 Speaker 2: about it. But yeah, you know, people want to put 277 00:17:31,359 --> 00:17:34,480 Speaker 2: in the box. Beyond that, I think there's also no 278 00:17:34,560 --> 00:17:36,760 Speaker 2: incentive for a lot of people to believe in it, 279 00:17:36,800 --> 00:17:40,000 Speaker 2: in fact, to even question who are the victims and 280 00:17:40,040 --> 00:17:44,639 Speaker 2: the victimizers in the whole Israeli Palestine quote unquote conflict, 281 00:17:45,480 --> 00:17:48,760 Speaker 2: Like it brings up a dark, twisted irony that most 282 00:17:48,760 --> 00:17:51,520 Speaker 2: people don't even want to entertain. You know, people don't 283 00:17:51,520 --> 00:17:55,280 Speaker 2: want to think about that stuff. And it also it 284 00:17:55,680 --> 00:17:59,600 Speaker 2: people worry about whether or not they're going to get 285 00:17:59,600 --> 00:18:04,479 Speaker 2: in trouble. And that brings me to another part of 286 00:18:04,480 --> 00:18:07,679 Speaker 2: this speech I found from the Middle East Policy Council 287 00:18:07,680 --> 00:18:13,400 Speaker 2: about haspara quote it also seeks to actively inculcate canons 288 00:18:13,400 --> 00:18:16,680 Speaker 2: of political correctness in domestic and foreign media and audiences 289 00:18:16,880 --> 00:18:21,200 Speaker 2: that will promote self censorship by them. It strives thereby 290 00:18:21,440 --> 00:18:26,119 Speaker 2: to decrease the willingness of audiences to consider information linked 291 00:18:26,160 --> 00:18:31,880 Speaker 2: to politically unacceptable viewpoints, individuals and groups, and to inhibit 292 00:18:32,240 --> 00:18:36,280 Speaker 2: the circulation of adverse information and social networks. It focuses 293 00:18:36,320 --> 00:18:43,560 Speaker 2: on limiting the receptivity of audiences to information. So hasbar 294 00:18:43,760 --> 00:18:47,960 Speaker 2: is fucking orwellian? That is? I think one of the 295 00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:50,960 Speaker 2: things that interests me about it a lot is how 296 00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:55,960 Speaker 2: Orwellian it is. You know, it goes beyond mere branding 297 00:18:56,560 --> 00:19:00,560 Speaker 2: when the Israeli government and pro Israel institutions like so 298 00:19:00,800 --> 00:19:04,760 Speaker 2: effectively mold the parameters of what is and isn't politically correct, 299 00:19:04,920 --> 00:19:06,720 Speaker 2: not just like in their own country, but in other 300 00:19:06,760 --> 00:19:10,840 Speaker 2: countries in the West. Like, think about the self censorship 301 00:19:11,160 --> 00:19:15,000 Speaker 2: that you the listener do around this issue. Think about 302 00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:18,760 Speaker 2: the times you wanted to say something but didn't because 303 00:19:18,800 --> 00:19:21,239 Speaker 2: you didn't know the exact right way to say it, 304 00:19:21,359 --> 00:19:24,440 Speaker 2: you know, like how to put it. And like think 305 00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:26,480 Speaker 2: about the times that you were reading something critical of 306 00:19:26,520 --> 00:19:30,880 Speaker 2: Israel by someone you trust and agree with, and one 307 00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:35,600 Speaker 2: sentence or one word or one turn of phrase triggered 308 00:19:35,680 --> 00:19:39,240 Speaker 2: you into questioning not just the validity of the thing 309 00:19:39,400 --> 00:19:42,240 Speaker 2: you were reading, but like the nature of the person 310 00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:45,399 Speaker 2: who wrote it. Think about your reaction to me saying 311 00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:48,720 Speaker 2: these things about Israel, and about how you felt when 312 00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:52,520 Speaker 2: Sharene made a lot of these points on some other 313 00:19:52,600 --> 00:19:57,359 Speaker 2: episode of this podcast, you know, like think about why 314 00:19:58,119 --> 00:20:01,399 Speaker 2: that changes things for you. And like there was a 315 00:20:01,440 --> 00:20:06,960 Speaker 2: time where I was also uncomfortable and like I would 316 00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:10,600 Speaker 2: only feel comfortable at hearing criticism and doing criticism of 317 00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:14,280 Speaker 2: Israel in the presence of other Jews, like it had 318 00:20:14,320 --> 00:20:18,240 Speaker 2: to be in a you know, private all Jewish Facebook 319 00:20:18,280 --> 00:20:21,680 Speaker 2: group or in like in person or through text messages. 320 00:20:21,840 --> 00:20:26,760 Speaker 2: Like I was so suspicious of the secret motives of 321 00:20:27,320 --> 00:20:31,280 Speaker 2: non Jewish people criticizing Israel, right, Like, like someone could 322 00:20:31,359 --> 00:20:34,880 Speaker 2: literally say something that I one hundred percent agreed with, 323 00:20:35,440 --> 00:20:38,040 Speaker 2: something that I myself had said, and then I would 324 00:20:38,240 --> 00:20:41,320 Speaker 2: still get this icky feeling from them saying it, like yeah, 325 00:20:41,320 --> 00:20:44,280 Speaker 2: but why are they saying it? Like why do you care? 326 00:20:45,160 --> 00:20:50,600 Speaker 2: Like that is probably Hasbara's greatest success to relegate the 327 00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:54,679 Speaker 2: issue of Palestinian human and civil rights to a niche 328 00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:59,280 Speaker 2: subject that is best talked about in private and only 329 00:20:59,359 --> 00:21:03,959 Speaker 2: by Jews. So I mean, Sharen, I know that, like 330 00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:08,879 Speaker 2: for you, you've got you get shipped for this, you 331 00:21:08,920 --> 00:21:09,760 Speaker 2: know I do. 332 00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:13,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, I feel like I'm done qualifying in my real 333 00:21:13,480 --> 00:21:16,400 Speaker 3: life especially and also just like in work. I'm done 334 00:21:16,480 --> 00:21:20,479 Speaker 3: qualifying whether or not something I say is or is 335 00:21:20,520 --> 00:21:25,640 Speaker 3: not whatever, because I'm if I'm even entertaining the idea 336 00:21:25,720 --> 00:21:28,760 Speaker 3: that criticizing Israel is anti Semitic, that's like feeding the fire. 337 00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:31,280 Speaker 3: I don't want to even bring that into I don't 338 00:21:31,280 --> 00:21:35,080 Speaker 3: want to associate that religion and the state of Israel. 339 00:21:35,119 --> 00:21:39,000 Speaker 3: And I feel like the more we have those disclaimers, 340 00:21:39,080 --> 00:21:42,880 Speaker 3: the more it's conflated. And I've definitely, I mean, I've 341 00:21:42,920 --> 00:21:45,399 Speaker 3: had a lot of anti Zionist Jewish people on this show, 342 00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:50,040 Speaker 3: almost almost to like show people that like, listen to 343 00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:52,880 Speaker 3: these people with actual experience. 344 00:21:52,840 --> 00:21:56,520 Speaker 2: Yes, and that's not to it's not to you know, 345 00:21:58,080 --> 00:22:01,280 Speaker 2: say you shouldn't. And none of this is me saying like, hey, 346 00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:05,719 Speaker 2: you shouldn't listen to anti Zionist Jews or whatnot, or 347 00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:08,600 Speaker 2: just like you know, like or you shouldn't be discerning 348 00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:11,280 Speaker 2: about who you're getting your information for, because yeah, there 349 00:22:11,320 --> 00:22:14,840 Speaker 2: are Nazis who are you know, wrap themselves in the 350 00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:19,320 Speaker 2: guise of being anti Israel or like you know, anti 351 00:22:19,359 --> 00:22:23,960 Speaker 2: occupation or whatnot. That none of this is putting down 352 00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:29,199 Speaker 2: anyone for being discerning or being careful, but it's to 353 00:22:29,280 --> 00:22:33,440 Speaker 2: say that like Hasbara has quite an effect on even 354 00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:38,439 Speaker 2: the most conscious of people. Like making Zionism and Judaism 355 00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:42,159 Speaker 2: synonymous and like practically indistinguishable is like one of his 356 00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:46,399 Speaker 2: Bar's like greatest achievements, presenting Jewish support of Israel as 357 00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:50,280 Speaker 2: monolithic save for like a few cranks you know, who 358 00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:53,719 Speaker 2: are the exception that prove the rule. You know, like 359 00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:57,240 Speaker 2: non Jews don't want to criticize criticize Israel because they 360 00:22:57,280 --> 00:23:00,680 Speaker 2: don't want to upset their Jewish friends, or they don't 361 00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:03,480 Speaker 2: want to be labeled an anti Semite. You know. It's like, 362 00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:08,120 Speaker 2: you know, after the large public outcry about Israel's brutal 363 00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:11,040 Speaker 2: response to the Homosteris attacks of October seventh, there was 364 00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:14,440 Speaker 2: a big push among Hasbaris to frame all Jews of 365 00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:18,399 Speaker 2: the world as feeling abandoned by the left and abandoned 366 00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:21,919 Speaker 2: by their friends. You had people like Brett Gelman, Oh 367 00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:23,960 Speaker 2: my god, from a stranger. 368 00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:26,400 Speaker 3: Walking dumps, I hate him so much, Oh my. 369 00:23:26,359 --> 00:23:30,920 Speaker 2: God, fucking wooly Willie over here going on Instagram being 370 00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:35,600 Speaker 2: like hey, fake woke former friends, and like he gave 371 00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:38,680 Speaker 2: a speech at the like Stand with Israel March that 372 00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:43,720 Speaker 2: was something like the Jews don't need you, like presenting 373 00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:48,520 Speaker 2: the you know, the idea of people criticizing Israel, or 374 00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:51,399 Speaker 2: like not wanting at the very least not wanting the 375 00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:58,560 Speaker 2: complete obliteration of Palestinians in Gaza. Framing that is like, oh, well, 376 00:23:58,600 --> 00:24:03,119 Speaker 2: all the Jews want that, you know, like his whole 377 00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:06,520 Speaker 2: thing of being like the Jews don't need you, as 378 00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:11,960 Speaker 2: if he and Israel represented all Jews, like presenting the 379 00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:14,640 Speaker 2: Jews of the world as a monolith, as if non 380 00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:18,280 Speaker 2: Zionist or anti Zionist Jews don't even exist, as if 381 00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:21,200 Speaker 2: we all felt this way, Like you don't want to 382 00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:23,840 Speaker 2: hate Jews, do you? Of course, if you don't, then 383 00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:26,840 Speaker 2: you gotta let Israel do whatever the hell it wants. 384 00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:27,480 Speaker 2: You know. 385 00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:30,200 Speaker 3: I think what really bothers me about him? I mean 386 00:24:30,359 --> 00:24:33,440 Speaker 3: everything bothers me about him, But like people like him, 387 00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:37,200 Speaker 3: they'll sometimes preface what they're saying with hey, I care 388 00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:41,119 Speaker 3: about Palestinians and then continue on their their whatever tirade. 389 00:24:41,119 --> 00:24:46,320 Speaker 3: There's ionis bullshit. And it's like, it's just it really 390 00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:48,480 Speaker 3: boggles my mind because I think he thinks he's a 391 00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:52,359 Speaker 3: good person. I really think that he believes he's a 392 00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:55,840 Speaker 3: good person when really he's just a piece of shit 393 00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:58,080 Speaker 3: that does not see a huge group of people as 394 00:24:58,119 --> 00:24:58,720 Speaker 3: human beings. 395 00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:01,280 Speaker 2: Yes, does not see people is human. And this is 396 00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:06,080 Speaker 2: something that you I think that anyone who's like a 397 00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:09,680 Speaker 2: self described liberal or leftist or whatever would be able 398 00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:12,919 Speaker 2: to easily recognize in any other situation. But it's just 399 00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:18,520 Speaker 2: it's it's it's clouded in this particular situation because of 400 00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:24,400 Speaker 2: this conflation, because you are willing to believe that Jews 401 00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:28,800 Speaker 2: are sort of a mono like monolithically agree with Israel. 402 00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:31,119 Speaker 2: Like they may be like a little bit like liberal 403 00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:35,320 Speaker 2: Zionists or whatnot, but mostly you know, they all love Israel, 404 00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:40,160 Speaker 2: and that is is is not true, and it's it's 405 00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:45,119 Speaker 2: a way of like more so, it feeds into the 406 00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:50,400 Speaker 2: continuing conflation. It feeds into this hasbara that Israel represents 407 00:25:50,440 --> 00:25:53,160 Speaker 2: all Jews, and I am telling you right now it doesn't. 408 00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:55,920 Speaker 2: And I don't think I'm telling anyone something they don't 409 00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:59,720 Speaker 2: already know. Like I think people knows Zionism is not Judaism. 410 00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:02,040 Speaker 3: I think I've said that many times on this podcast, 411 00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:02,479 Speaker 3: trust me. 412 00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:04,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, at this point you should know. 413 00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:09,000 Speaker 3: If you don't know that by now, please. 414 00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:14,240 Speaker 2: Yes, learn it now. But like you know, Jews, both 415 00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:17,359 Speaker 2: inside and outside of Israel, have a diverse range of 416 00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:19,960 Speaker 2: views about the Israeli government. That's not to say that 417 00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:23,919 Speaker 2: Jews in Israel do not, for the most part, you know, 418 00:26:24,119 --> 00:26:29,040 Speaker 2: support the government at least or support the project of Zionism, 419 00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:31,800 Speaker 2: but that is to like, to me, that's to be expected. 420 00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:34,719 Speaker 2: It's to be expected that it's like fucking nine to eleven, 421 00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:39,320 Speaker 2: you know, I it'd be weird to not expect the 422 00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:43,840 Speaker 2: kind of racist jingoism that you saw like after nine 423 00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:46,560 Speaker 2: to eleven, you know, in fucking America. And I feel 424 00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:48,760 Speaker 2: like that was the majority of people. Was that kind 425 00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:52,879 Speaker 2: of like like seething anti Arab hatred. And I'm not 426 00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:56,800 Speaker 2: excusing it, But what I'm saying is that Jews have 427 00:26:57,040 --> 00:27:00,800 Speaker 2: a diverse range of views inside and outside of Israel, 428 00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:03,639 Speaker 2: and a lot of it includes wanting a ceasefire. And 429 00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:07,800 Speaker 2: that's why you see it in these Jewish organizations that 430 00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:11,000 Speaker 2: are trying to end the occupation. They're trying they are 431 00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:15,200 Speaker 2: openly critiquing Israel that are calling Zionism racism. You see it, 432 00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:20,280 Speaker 2: and you see it because they because we're honestly trying 433 00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:24,760 Speaker 2: to change this narrative. We're trying to stop people from 434 00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:29,240 Speaker 2: believing this lie that the Jewish people are synonymous with 435 00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:30,480 Speaker 2: the state of Israel. 436 00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:34,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think that's why Jewish and I mean 437 00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:36,680 Speaker 3: I've said this many times as well, but Jewish Antaizionists 438 00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:39,720 Speaker 3: are like a very integral part of the movement to 439 00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:43,640 Speaker 3: liberate Palestine because it's again, it's not a Palestinian issue, 440 00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:46,520 Speaker 3: it's not a Muslim issue. It's a very human issue. 441 00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:50,760 Speaker 3: Its care about people not being fucking genocided. 442 00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:55,040 Speaker 2: Yes, another thing that's pretty clear is how good the 443 00:27:55,119 --> 00:28:00,280 Speaker 2: products are that we sell here at Cool Zone. Let's 444 00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:03,720 Speaker 2: stick around, listen to these ads and we'll. 445 00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:04,560 Speaker 1: Be right back. 446 00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:22,400 Speaker 2: And we're back. So I want to say to everyone listening, 447 00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:27,320 Speaker 2: I understand that the impulse to treat the subject of 448 00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:31,720 Speaker 2: Israel with more caution and care is rooted in respect 449 00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:35,399 Speaker 2: for the Jewish people and a desire to stand firmly 450 00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:40,200 Speaker 2: against anti Semitism, and that is that is a good thing. 451 00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:46,640 Speaker 2: I encourage that one you respecting Jewish people and wanting 452 00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:50,680 Speaker 2: to stand firmly against anti Semitism, wanting to fight it 453 00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:53,720 Speaker 2: with every fiber of your being. You are correct and 454 00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:56,960 Speaker 2: feeling that way, and I want to encourage it. And 455 00:28:57,120 --> 00:28:59,200 Speaker 2: I also need you to understand that it's for that 456 00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:04,520 Speaker 2: very reason that I urge people to speak out about Israel, 457 00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:09,920 Speaker 2: because I believe Israel and they're Hasbaris mouthpieces and the 458 00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:15,560 Speaker 2: project of political Zionism are inherently anti Semitic, and not 459 00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:18,640 Speaker 2: in like the semantic sense where it's like Arabs are 460 00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:20,680 Speaker 2: also semi So it's an argument I've heard. I'm not 461 00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:27,280 Speaker 2: talking about that. I'm talking about anti Jewish, specifically anti Jewish. 462 00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:32,680 Speaker 2: They actively work to create fear amongst diaspora Jews, make 463 00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:39,480 Speaker 2: us distrust our friends, our neighbors, our coworkers, our fellow Jews. 464 00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:43,760 Speaker 2: Even they tell us that, you know, they tell Jews 465 00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:46,960 Speaker 2: that unless they support Israel, they are not real Jews, 466 00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:50,800 Speaker 2: you know, or they are self hating Jews. They use 467 00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:55,640 Speaker 2: our past traumas against us. They re traumatize us and 468 00:29:55,920 --> 00:30:00,760 Speaker 2: manipulate us like it's classic abuser shit. It is it 469 00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:05,400 Speaker 2: is abuse, it's it's cult shit too, And they even 470 00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:09,160 Speaker 2: deal in Nazi revisionism. And it's it's so important to 471 00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:13,800 Speaker 2: point this out because you see the way that they, 472 00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:19,320 Speaker 2: the Israeli government uses the Nazi you know, accusation in 473 00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:23,200 Speaker 2: order to do a genocide. I mean you see constantly, 474 00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:28,240 Speaker 2: you know, in the last three four months, videos from 475 00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:32,880 Speaker 2: the IDF showing, you know, an iPad they found in 476 00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:36,000 Speaker 2: a teen girls bedroom, and you know, they open it 477 00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:39,640 Speaker 2: up and there's the wallpaper of the iPad is is 478 00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:42,959 Speaker 2: Hitler's face. And you look at that, and you're supposed 479 00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:45,320 Speaker 2: to go, oh my god, I can't I can't believe that, 480 00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:49,480 Speaker 2: and you forget to question what the fuck an Israeli 481 00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:54,960 Speaker 2: soldier is doing in a seventeen year old girls bedroom. 482 00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:57,960 Speaker 2: Why is it blown up? And why is why is 483 00:30:57,960 --> 00:31:01,560 Speaker 2: he going through her stuff like that? You you stop 484 00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:06,200 Speaker 2: looking at what is actually happening, and you start looking 485 00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:10,160 Speaker 2: at what the Hasbaris want you to look at. They 486 00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:12,800 Speaker 2: want you to see the Hitler thing and go like, 487 00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:16,480 Speaker 2: oh man, this is a whole society of little Hitlers 488 00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:21,200 Speaker 2: and and I you know, I look at that and 489 00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:23,200 Speaker 2: I see the way they cynically use that. While at 490 00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:28,640 Speaker 2: the same time, you know, Benjamin Netanyahoo has been pushing 491 00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:32,479 Speaker 2: this line, claiming that the Holocaust was essentially the Palestinians idea. 492 00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:38,200 Speaker 2: I mean, this is something that has been gaining more 493 00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:44,080 Speaker 2: and more traction in like sort of this new Israel Palestine, 494 00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:46,840 Speaker 2: like a historical narrative that's been pushed about, like you know, 495 00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:51,240 Speaker 2: the Mufti and is and and Hitler meeting up together 496 00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:54,560 Speaker 2: and being like have you ever thought about killing the Jews? 497 00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:57,120 Speaker 2: And Hitler was like I never thought about that before. 498 00:31:57,200 --> 00:32:01,600 Speaker 2: It's that's so smart. Wow, thank you. So Palestinians like 499 00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:09,680 Speaker 2: total bullshit, totally revising, like trying to do fucking like 500 00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:15,000 Speaker 2: I don't know apologya for literally Hitler is anti Semitic. 501 00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:18,240 Speaker 2: I don't care how you slice it. It is. And 502 00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:22,680 Speaker 2: that's something that the Israeli government deals in. They deal 503 00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:27,240 Speaker 2: in anti Semitism all the time. I mean essentially, Israel 504 00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:32,360 Speaker 2: tells the world that Jews are a third column, loyal 505 00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:36,160 Speaker 2: to Israel first and foremost, and tells Jews that our 506 00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:39,400 Speaker 2: home isn't our home. They say this to us, and 507 00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:42,800 Speaker 2: you know that due to our traditions and our blood, 508 00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:47,080 Speaker 2: you know, we are just merely guests in any other place. 509 00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:52,400 Speaker 2: This is like an old racist worldview. From a previous 510 00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:56,800 Speaker 2: century filled with blood and soil fascism, you know, and 511 00:32:56,880 --> 00:33:00,480 Speaker 2: like for me, like growing up in a mixed secular family, 512 00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:02,680 Speaker 2: you know, where I'm like, yeah, I'm like culturally Jewish 513 00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:06,000 Speaker 2: and I'm ethnically Jewish, but I'm like a blood jew essentially, 514 00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:10,200 Speaker 2: you know, like and as like the very fact of 515 00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:15,000 Speaker 2: me having Jewish blood was used by fascists to murder 516 00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:19,840 Speaker 2: us during the Holocaust. Now under Israel's Law of Return, 517 00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:22,520 Speaker 2: that very same Jewish blood is being used by fascists 518 00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:25,240 Speaker 2: as a passport to allow me to move to Israel 519 00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:28,920 Speaker 2: and displace an entire Palestinian family if I choose to, like, 520 00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:33,120 Speaker 2: you know, being religiously Jewish doesn't have anything to do 521 00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:36,320 Speaker 2: with my ability to do this, and my blood is 522 00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:41,040 Speaker 2: my passport to do apartheid. That's why I choose to 523 00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:42,920 Speaker 2: talk about this stuff. You know, if you're going to 524 00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:46,200 Speaker 2: use my blood to make me complicit in crimes, the 525 00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:48,520 Speaker 2: crimes of your state, then I'm gonna have something to 526 00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:52,960 Speaker 2: fucking say about it, you know. So my final piece 527 00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:55,719 Speaker 2: of Haspara has to do with something that has been 528 00:33:55,760 --> 00:34:00,960 Speaker 2: said over and over again by countless zionussing the current 529 00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:04,680 Speaker 2: president of these United States of America, Joe Biden. 530 00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:08,880 Speaker 1: Folks, were there no Israel, there wouldn't be a Jewish 531 00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:09,960 Speaker 1: the world was safe. 532 00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:13,040 Speaker 2: The idea that the state of Israel alone can keep 533 00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:17,160 Speaker 2: the Jewish people safe is an insane piece of hasbara. 534 00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:23,640 Speaker 2: It is total, utter anti Semitic bullshit. A Jewish state 535 00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:29,200 Speaker 2: does not and cannot keep Jewish people safe. Tying the 536 00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:33,920 Speaker 2: fate of the Jewish state to the Jewish people is 537 00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:38,360 Speaker 2: a recipe for fucking disaster. The Jewish people are a 538 00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:42,320 Speaker 2: nation that has lasted thousands of years. Nations meaning like 539 00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:47,239 Speaker 2: a people with a common origin, history, language, culture, customs, 540 00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:50,319 Speaker 2: and religion and or religion. You know, it can be 541 00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:52,239 Speaker 2: any of those things. And for a long long time 542 00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:56,920 Speaker 2: we were one of many stateless nations that existed. And 543 00:34:56,960 --> 00:35:00,160 Speaker 2: that's not to say that you know, Israel show and 544 00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:03,440 Speaker 2: exists or whatever. But more importantly on what I'm saying 545 00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:08,720 Speaker 2: is that Jews should exist, whether they happen to be 546 00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:14,040 Speaker 2: located anywhere, like wherever they are, Jews should should exist. 547 00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:17,279 Speaker 2: The existence of the state of Israel, to me, is 548 00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:20,640 Speaker 2: not the question, and that is not what Israel claims 549 00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:24,120 Speaker 2: to do. They ensure They claim to ensure the existence 550 00:35:24,120 --> 00:35:26,160 Speaker 2: of the Jewish people. But they do not. All they 551 00:35:26,239 --> 00:35:28,960 Speaker 2: do is try to bolster the existence of their state. 552 00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:34,160 Speaker 2: And it should not be common thought that the existence 553 00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:37,520 Speaker 2: of Israel and the existence of Jews are the same thing. 554 00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:41,520 Speaker 2: As I can personally think of nothing more dangerous for 555 00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:45,840 Speaker 2: any people than to tie their entire survival to something 556 00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:52,319 Speaker 2: as impermanent as a fucking state. And that is the 557 00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:59,280 Speaker 2: truth about Israel. So you know, all this to say 558 00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:04,879 Speaker 2: that I'm a I guess I'm an anarchist. Now there's 559 00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:08,440 Speaker 2: one thing that you know, getting into the whole Israel 560 00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:10,880 Speaker 2: Palestine thing will do to you. It turns you very 561 00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:15,080 Speaker 2: quickly into someone who believes the existence of states is 562 00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:20,719 Speaker 2: the problem. Yeah, yeah, so that's that's me. That's how 563 00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:21,960 Speaker 2: I feel about stuff. 564 00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:26,040 Speaker 3: I'm so glad you did this series for us. Where 565 00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:29,000 Speaker 3: can't people hear you do the same thing? But what 566 00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:29,680 Speaker 3: by yourself? 567 00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:32,920 Speaker 2: With other people? You can? You can hear me? Do 568 00:36:33,520 --> 00:36:37,000 Speaker 2: you know these talking about Israel and stuff? On my 569 00:36:37,080 --> 00:36:41,600 Speaker 2: new podcast Bad Hasbara, the World's Most Moral podcast. It's 570 00:36:41,640 --> 00:36:46,600 Speaker 2: a it's a comedy podcast about hilarious Israeli propaganda that 571 00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:50,080 Speaker 2: I that I find that are you know, listeners find 572 00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:53,120 Speaker 2: and you know I have on my friends like Sharine, 573 00:36:53,120 --> 00:36:55,439 Speaker 2: I had you on, I had Anna on, I had 574 00:36:55,760 --> 00:37:00,480 Speaker 2: all sorts of great anti Zionist Jews and some really 575 00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:04,160 Speaker 2: amazing Palestinian guests. Or at least by the time this 576 00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:06,759 Speaker 2: comes out, I assume those episodes will have come out. 577 00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:09,799 Speaker 2: I you know, I don't know when those are coming out. 578 00:37:09,800 --> 00:37:12,560 Speaker 2: But anyways, I've only been doing the podcast for a 579 00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:16,000 Speaker 2: month and it's been a lot of fun. It's been cathartic, 580 00:37:16,040 --> 00:37:18,600 Speaker 2: and it's been hard, and it's definitely been you know, 581 00:37:19,680 --> 00:37:22,040 Speaker 2: like caused some stress in my life because you know, 582 00:37:22,239 --> 00:37:26,680 Speaker 2: looking for this content you have to dig through a 583 00:37:26,680 --> 00:37:30,200 Speaker 2: lot of really horrific shit. So yeah, check out bad 584 00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:34,200 Speaker 2: Asbara or you know, check me out met leave jokes 585 00:37:34,239 --> 00:37:40,000 Speaker 2: on Instagram, and go to a Sacramento punchline March seventeenth, Sunday, 586 00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:44,560 Speaker 2: seven pm. Me and my wife, my wife ran Jessica Ifi'rentini. 587 00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:48,000 Speaker 2: We're gonna be co headlining there, so get your tickets now. 588 00:37:48,560 --> 00:37:50,080 Speaker 2: Link in the notes. 589 00:37:50,719 --> 00:37:56,360 Speaker 3: Yay, No, thank you so much. I really enjoy your podcast, 590 00:37:56,600 --> 00:37:58,400 Speaker 3: the most sporal podcast I would. 591 00:37:58,200 --> 00:38:01,680 Speaker 2: Say in the world. Sure, thank you for you know, 592 00:38:01,719 --> 00:38:04,480 Speaker 2: give me the opportunity to talk about this and you know, 593 00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:11,200 Speaker 2: I I promise you that the show, The Badass Bar 594 00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:14,960 Speaker 2: Show is funny. I swear to god, it's funny. 595 00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:17,600 Speaker 3: It's very cathartic. You are you're correct in that. It's 596 00:38:17,680 --> 00:38:19,920 Speaker 3: very cathartic to just like event with your friends and 597 00:38:20,120 --> 00:38:22,600 Speaker 3: people think the same things as you, especially if you're 598 00:38:22,600 --> 00:38:25,759 Speaker 3: surrounded by someone or people that are kind of. 599 00:38:27,800 --> 00:38:29,520 Speaker 2: Purposely ignorant or whatever. 600 00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:29,840 Speaker 1: You know. 601 00:38:30,040 --> 00:38:35,560 Speaker 2: So, yeah, when you're surrounded by people who don't want 602 00:38:35,600 --> 00:38:37,560 Speaker 2: to either don't want to engage with this at all, 603 00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:41,640 Speaker 2: or I'm mad at you for even partially engaging with it, 604 00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:44,560 Speaker 2: it's nice to find the people that you know in 605 00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:46,360 Speaker 2: love and like to joke around with and be like, 606 00:38:47,160 --> 00:38:51,120 Speaker 2: we're we're not crazy, right exactly, and then we go, yeah, 607 00:38:51,120 --> 00:38:53,160 Speaker 2: we're not, and then we have a good time. Yeah, 608 00:38:53,280 --> 00:38:55,080 Speaker 2: check that out, and thank you, and thank you to 609 00:38:55,080 --> 00:38:56,360 Speaker 2: everyone at cool Zon Media. 610 00:38:56,480 --> 00:38:56,719 Speaker 1: Yay. 611 00:38:57,160 --> 00:39:00,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, go follow Matt, go see me in Matt and 612 00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:03,879 Speaker 3: and his uh my crush his wife, don't tell her, 613 00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:09,279 Speaker 3: And yeah, they're they're really doing the work. And I 614 00:39:09,320 --> 00:39:13,280 Speaker 3: really appreciate both of you guys just being really outspoken always, 615 00:39:13,280 --> 00:39:17,160 Speaker 3: and so yeah, follow their lead. Keep talking about Palestine. 616 00:39:17,320 --> 00:39:22,879 Speaker 3: There's still a fucking genocide happening, and that's the episode. 617 00:39:23,200 --> 00:39:25,160 Speaker 2: All right, bye everyone. 618 00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:30,120 Speaker 3: Hie Pree Palestine pre Palestine. 619 00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:35,200 Speaker 1: It Could Happen Here as a production of cool Zone Media. 620 00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:38,080 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website 621 00:39:38,120 --> 00:39:40,360 Speaker 1: cool zonemedia dot com or check us out on the 622 00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:43,919 Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. 623 00:39:44,200 --> 00:39:46,320 Speaker 1: You can find sources for It Could Happen Here, updated 624 00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:50,440 Speaker 1: monthly at cool zonemedia dot com slash sources. Thanks for listening.