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Speaker 1: Hello, I'm Scott, I'm Evan Nobe Williams, and I'm Michael

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Speaker 1: barn This is the Bloomberg Business of Sports podcast. We

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Speaker 1: explore the big money issues in the world of sports.

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Speaker 1: Let's get into some of our topics today, beginning with

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Speaker 1: the last night's NBA lottery on ESPN. The second pick

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Speaker 1: will be made by the Memphis christ and that means

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Speaker 1: that the number one pick and the two thousand draft

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Speaker 1: goes to the New Orleans Pelicans. I have a lot

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Speaker 1: to say about this. You have a microphone. First of all, okay,

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Speaker 1: congratulations to the Pelicans. The Knicks get the third pick,

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Speaker 1: and I'm sure Knicks fans are like, man, not again.

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Speaker 1: But what's even more surprising is that the Lakers got

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Speaker 1: the fourth pick. When you say more surprising, the Knicks

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Speaker 1: only had a six at number one, so it's really

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Speaker 1: not all that surprising. But still no, I'm well, I'm

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Speaker 1: saying more surprising is that the Lakers. The Lakers had

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Speaker 1: a two percent at number one, but certainly they were

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Speaker 1: one of the teams that moved up. And when you

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Speaker 1: had Lakers and Nicks still alive with four to go,

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Speaker 1: you're like, oh boy, like you could see Adam Silver

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Speaker 1: Seal and when there was four teams left, we've gone this,

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Speaker 1: We've gone this far, by the way, and haven't even

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Speaker 1: said the name is Zion Williamson yet. But he you

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Speaker 1: see his face when it was obvious, well, once the

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Speaker 1: Lakers and the Knicks were out, like it was Memphis

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Speaker 1: or New Orleans, just see Zion like, I mean, I

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Speaker 1: feel for him. He said, you know what he's gonna

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Speaker 1: You know, I'm gonna call Eli Manning and see what

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Speaker 1: was it. He said, I'm not going to San Diego,

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Speaker 1: Like I'm just not going. Could you see you do

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Speaker 1: that a long time ago? Did you see Zion saying

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Speaker 1: I'm not going, Like I don't want to do it.

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Speaker 1: Trade me you have to try his I mean, his

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Speaker 1: marketability would take a hit right off the bat where

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Speaker 1: you're just sort of dictating. But he's still gonna make

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Speaker 1: tons of cash. So does he care? How much does

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Speaker 1: it affect his marketing? I mean, Lebron James was the

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Speaker 1: best comparison in my mind to what Zion is hype wise.

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Speaker 1: He went to a small city in Cleveland, and we

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Speaker 1: wanted to be but he wanted to be there. Sure,

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Speaker 1: But I almost feel as though at this point, you

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Speaker 1: know you're gonna get the big shoe deal regardless of

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Speaker 1: where you're playing. There are folks who had early on,

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Speaker 1: some of some of the marketers I talked to you said,

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Speaker 1: will cost him a few million bucks just because of

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Speaker 1: the regional with if he had been in New York,

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Speaker 1: to be a few million early on. Overall, long term,

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Speaker 1: if he's a great player and they win, he's an

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Speaker 1: international icon, you make all your money. Sure, plenty of opportunities,

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Speaker 1: but it's all predicated on playing well and winning. Why

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Speaker 1: do we have the lottery system in the first place?

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Speaker 1: And then they changed so teams don't take well tank

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Speaker 1: Now they're still taking Yes they are, they are, but

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Speaker 1: not as badly. I mean, if you this year, if

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Speaker 1: you had no lottery in place, and I'm being serious

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Speaker 1: about this, you have for discussion, if there was no

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Speaker 1: lottery and Zion or Lebron or a Lebron was available,

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Speaker 1: do you doubt that there's a team that would shoot

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Speaker 1: for oh and eighty two? I'll bet you there they

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Speaker 1: would put the B team out on the floor, you know,

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Speaker 1: And that's really bad for the league. Like that doesn't

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Speaker 1: quite happen now, like just sort of you're sort of

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Speaker 1: well resting place, but an overt we don't care. That's

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Speaker 1: the situation. You would have just putting it to chance

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Speaker 1: like this, and they and they've changed it because it

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Speaker 1: used to be what they had a chance if you

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Speaker 1: were the nixt and then they changed all of this.

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Speaker 1: But that's my point, is like, why I leave this

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Speaker 1: the chance? Can't you set some rules system up to

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Speaker 1: where to avoid the tanking. But at the same time, too,

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Speaker 1: if we see you purposely tanking, you're not gonna get rewarded.

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Speaker 1: There's got to be some system. I think the system

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Speaker 1: no team since the lottery has been there, no team

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Speaker 1: with the best chance at number one has gotten it.

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Speaker 1: So really you shouldn't be tanking because no team with

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Speaker 1: the best chance has ever gotten the number one pack. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it does make you wonder if you know, NBA teams

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Speaker 1: look at this lottery and say, this is the biggest

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Speaker 1: star we've had into this league, and in ten years

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Speaker 1: plus the team that got him was a team that

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Speaker 1: had a six percent chance in the lottery. Maybe this

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Speaker 1: idea of racing to the bottom is no longer maybe

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Speaker 1: the right approach right um, going back to the idea

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Speaker 1: for for Zion Williamson. You know, this may not fully

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Speaker 1: hurt his value all that much. I do think from

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Speaker 1: a league wide perspective, this is a bad result for

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Speaker 1: the NBA. Right, The big loser on the night was

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Speaker 1: the NBA. It may being in a small market isn't

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Speaker 1: terrible for Zion himself, but putting Zion, if this makes sense,

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Speaker 1: putting him in the small market, actually is a bad

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Speaker 1: thing I think for the NBA. On two, our next topic,

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Speaker 1: the n c double A is creating a working group

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Speaker 1: to address legislation surrounding the name, image, and likeness rights

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Speaker 1: of student athletes. Yeah, this is an interesting one. Earlier

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Speaker 1: this week, the n c A announced that it was

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Speaker 1: putting together this working group to look at this idea

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Speaker 1: of explore the idea of whether a college athlete should

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Speaker 1: be able to be paid for their their name, image

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Speaker 1: and likeness, which in simple terms, means be able to

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Speaker 1: market themselves. Um. And this sounds like a great step

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Speaker 1: forward until you read the rest of the release when

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Speaker 1: it says the group will not consider any concepts that

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Speaker 1: will be construed as payment for participation in college sports. Now,

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Speaker 1: there's two ways to read that, right. The cynical way

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Speaker 1: to read that is listen, the n c a A

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Speaker 1: loves nothing more than to put together a working group

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Speaker 1: that will come together, meet for six months, and then

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Speaker 1: come out and say that, you know, the current rules

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Speaker 1: are pretty much exactly what they want and maybe loosen

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Speaker 1: one or two things. Uh. That's the cynical way to

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Speaker 1: look at it. The positive way to look at that

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Speaker 1: is saying that you look, they don't want to pay

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Speaker 1: for participation in college sports directly, which means that they

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Speaker 1: don't want Alabama paying what ten thousand dollars per month

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Speaker 1: to a recruit, but they might be able to open

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Speaker 1: the door so that when you're a star in college sports,

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Speaker 1: if you're Johnny Manzel winning Heisman trophies at Texas A

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Speaker 1: and M, you can sign a local deal with the

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Speaker 1: the car dealership, you can sign a deal with with

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Speaker 1: maybe Nike. You can market yourself and make money off

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Speaker 1: of your own popularity. And for folks who follow college

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Speaker 1: sports a lot, this is exactly the idea that Ed

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Speaker 1: O'Bannon tried to get to in his lawsuit against the

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Speaker 1: n c a A and and bringing in e A

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Speaker 1: Sports for their use of players names, images, and and

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Speaker 1: jersey numbers etcetera. In in in the college sports video games,

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Speaker 1: this would be if the n c A was willing

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Speaker 1: to loosen its restrictions, here would be a monumental step

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Speaker 1: forward in college athletes being able to see a piece

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Speaker 1: of the billions of dollars they generate. Producer Colin Tipton,

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Speaker 1: can we get a time on the on how long

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Speaker 1: Evan just had? Like spoke without anybody interrupting. I was

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Speaker 1: reading some emails. I actually read three emails and sent

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Speaker 1: to he's got passion, He's got he's got passion. That

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Speaker 1: it wasn't Val Ackerman, the chair of this working group,

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Speaker 1: our friend Val acer Yeah, commissioner the Big h that's

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Speaker 1: somebody in college sports, by the way, a conference that

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Speaker 1: doesn't have football or the big time football, don stress football.

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Speaker 1: If I wanted change in college sports, I would like

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Speaker 1: somebody like Val Ackerman included in a working group that's

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Speaker 1: trying to come up with solutions. Agreed, And if I

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Speaker 1: was a betting man, this is, in my opinion, the

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Speaker 1: most likely next window in terms of kind of chiseling

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Speaker 1: away at the amateurism model, letting players be able to

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Speaker 1: market themselves while in college, which technically is them getting

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Speaker 1: paid seven. And you know, I like this this particular

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Speaker 1: thing that they're looking at, because when we talk about players,

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Speaker 1: you gotta side who's gonna make the money. We're really

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Speaker 1: only talking about a handful of players on the biggest

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Speaker 1: team that realistically can make decent coin. Sure, you get

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Speaker 1: the guys in the local markets can do the local

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Speaker 1: car dealer thing. I get it, but we're really only

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Speaker 1: talking about a handful of college football players. The rest

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Speaker 1: of these nameless, faceless guys that fill out a football team.

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Speaker 1: So by letting those star players, I still go back

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Speaker 1: to Johnny Manzel because he was so big when he

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Speaker 1: was playing at A and m uh fine, that that

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Speaker 1: really ends the conversation. If Johnny Manzel can go out

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Speaker 1: there and pitches like this and make five million bucks, great,

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Speaker 1: let them do it. Then you soften the argument everybody

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Speaker 1: else has like you're not treating these players fairly, because

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Speaker 1: college football, like it or not, is like some other leagues,

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Speaker 1: a star driven game. You sell those jerseys, those faces

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Speaker 1: are everywhere. It's Manzella and the Aggies all that, and

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Speaker 1: most importantly, it's a business and people have to realize that,

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Speaker 1: and especially these athletes. They're putting in what do they

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Speaker 1: get hurt? Maybe we're maybe we're part of the problem

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Speaker 1: because we talk about the big four sports leagues. Should

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Speaker 1: we lump it like, should we just say, you know what,

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Speaker 1: we gotta college sports, basketball and football to the Big six? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you're right, look at those TV deals Big six. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I mean if the NBA nine billion dollars in revenue, right,

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Speaker 1: college sports Division one large if you factor in all

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Speaker 1: all the different numbers is up there as well. And

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Speaker 1: moving on to our final item. Today, with the legalization

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Speaker 1: of sports betting, it looks like ESPN has plans to

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Speaker 1: create programming for gamblers, or let's put it in other terms,

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Speaker 1: what am I watching tonight? Start to stop watch on

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Speaker 1: Mr Novill. I feel a little deja vu here in

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Speaker 1: that the way I felt a year ago when it

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Speaker 1: seems like every podcast we were talking about a new

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Speaker 1: streaming deal between Twitter and the NHL or Facebook and MLB.

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Speaker 1: There was this big rush for sports leagues big and

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Speaker 1: small to get their content on direct digital providers. That's

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Speaker 1: where we are right now with sports sports betting. I

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Speaker 1: feel like every podcast we're talking about another big media

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Speaker 1: company partnering with a casino or another big league partnering

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Speaker 1: with an operator just seems like they're there's so much

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Speaker 1: going on in this world. If I see one more

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Speaker 1: person who purportedly knows about this, well, times are changed,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna go nuts. I swear to you, I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: go bonkers. I just can't. And I know twitters a

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Speaker 1: small sample size, but it's a lot of industry folks,

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Speaker 1: you know, reporters, you should know better. Well, you know, boy,

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Speaker 1: another deal side, Well, times have changed. Bar, No, you

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Speaker 1: don't say thanks. So yeah, I'm not going to name

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Speaker 1: the person, but I too. Somebody yesterday on Twitter or

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Speaker 1: somebody in the industry had put something like, wow, boy,

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Speaker 1: you know you got teams in Las Vegas and they're

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Speaker 1: putting this in Vegas and they're gonna put that boy,

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Speaker 1: times have changed. And yes, but I looked over at Evan,

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Speaker 1: I said, I was there in two thousand and seven

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Speaker 1: when the NBA had its All Star Game in Las

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Speaker 1: Vegas two thousand and seven. So, you know, let's just say,

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Speaker 1: some folks and what it's not a surprise that Adam

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Speaker 1: Silver was the one who wrote that up ed in

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Speaker 1: the New York Times and told us, you know, maybe

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Speaker 1: we should take another look at this whole sports betting thing. Yes,

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Speaker 1: it's not a revolution, it's an evolution, but we're getting there.

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Speaker 1: There are two major players in the in the nationwide

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Speaker 1: broadcasting of live sports, one being Fox in the other

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Speaker 1: being ESPN, And in the past week we've seen both

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Speaker 1: of them kind of lay out their plans. And we

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Speaker 1: talked last week about Fox, which bought a five percent

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Speaker 1: stake in in an operator called Stars Group and it

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Speaker 1: is launching its own platform N. Fox bought the Yeah,

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Speaker 1: ESPN going a very different route this week. They partnered,

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Speaker 1: as you said, Michael, a deal with Caesar's. Uh, it

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Speaker 1: does not involve any equity taking place. There's not, at

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Speaker 1: least now going to be ESPN bet as a platform. Uh.

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Speaker 1: They are building a studio in one of the Caesar's

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Speaker 1: Las Vegas locations so they can produce more content around gaming,

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Speaker 1: around gambling. UM, certainly more so than just there the

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Speaker 1: TV show they launched recently, you're gonna see more coverage

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Speaker 1: of it, kind of ancillary around the things that ESPN does.

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Speaker 1: But if you listen to Bob Iger, he is adamant

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Speaker 1: that they are not going to become a sports book.

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Speaker 1: They are not going to become a platform anytimes. Glad

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Speaker 1: you mentioned, because yeah, we always need to look up

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Speaker 1: to the top of the mountain. You still got Mickey Mouse.

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Speaker 1: And on the other side, you know that you got

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Speaker 1: Bob Iger, the Disney CEO. So it's Mickey Mouse. And

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Speaker 1: on the other side you've got the Murdos who have

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Speaker 1: always taken risks. That's what I like to see. And

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Speaker 1: by the way, at the Fox up front, you know,

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Speaker 1: sports is always a part of something. The Fox up front,

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Speaker 1: they're all in on sports, like more than half of

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Speaker 1: that up front. You had the w w E stars,

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Speaker 1: you had you had a Rod was there, you had

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Speaker 1: all the football guys especially, it's it's Fox Sports and News.

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Speaker 1: You know, they have to have some new scripted stuff,

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Speaker 1: but the sports is being used to promote it all.

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Speaker 1: So there you go, Murdox vers Versus the Mouse. This

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Speaker 1: has been the Bloomberg Business of Sports podcast on Michael

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Speaker 1: Barr along with Scott slash Nick and Evan Nowie Williams.

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Speaker 1: We are here each and every Monday, Wednesday and Thursday

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Speaker 1: exploring the world of money in sports. Join us again

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Speaker 1: at the end of the week when we speak with

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Speaker 1: Amy Latimer, President of the TD garden up in Boston.

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Speaker 1: She's having quite a playoffs. Right now, you're listening to

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Business of Sports on Bloomberg Radio around the world

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Speaker 1: and online where you get your podcast