WEBVTT - Nuclear Semiotics: How to Talk to Future Humans 0:00:00.360 --> 0:00:03.720 Hello, Maine in Greater New England. We're coming to see 0:00:03.760 --> 0:00:06.360 you guys in Portland and we can't wait. We would 0:00:06.360 --> 0:00:07.960 love to see you there. Yep, we'll be at the 0:00:08.000 --> 0:00:11.119 State Theater on August. If you're interested, you can get 0:00:11.119 --> 0:00:15.480 tickets and information at s y s K live dot com. 0:00:15.520 --> 0:00:19.280 There's some lobster at us. Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, 0:00:19.480 --> 0:00:28.080 a production of I Heart Radios How Stuff Works. Hey, 0:00:28.200 --> 0:00:31.840 and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, There's Charles 0:00:31.920 --> 0:00:35.479 W Chuck Bryant, there's Jerry over there, and this is 0:00:35.520 --> 0:00:41.040 Stuff you should Know, Uh, the podcast. And you're about 0:00:41.080 --> 0:00:43.760 to say that the Blank Edition. Yeah, I was, but 0:00:43.800 --> 0:00:46.600 I couldn't think of anything. It was literally the blank Edition, 0:00:47.600 --> 0:00:49.320 was it? I mean, you couldn't think of anything? You 0:00:49.320 --> 0:00:51.480 were blacked. Oh no, that's right, it was the blank Edition. 0:00:51.520 --> 0:00:54.880 Oh gosh, it's a terrible start, Chuck. So how about this, 0:00:55.080 --> 0:00:59.880 just to uh divert ourselves from that disaster, what was 0:01:00.040 --> 0:01:03.000 not a disaster where our live shows we just did. 0:01:03.120 --> 0:01:06.480 Oh yeah, we we finally got up on stage everyone 0:01:06.720 --> 0:01:10.600 since first time since January kick the Rust off in 0:01:10.720 --> 0:01:14.560 Chicago and Toronto, and both of them were we just killed. 0:01:14.600 --> 0:01:17.399 They were great. Yeah, everybody were great. Everyone had a 0:01:17.400 --> 0:01:20.800 really great time. Yeah, they told us so. They seemed 0:01:20.800 --> 0:01:24.040 to be legitimately meaning what they were saying. Yeah, it 0:01:24.080 --> 0:01:26.440 was really really great to get back on stage with you, 0:01:26.520 --> 0:01:29.800 my friend. And also also also hats off to Chicago 0:01:29.959 --> 0:01:32.920 for showing up. They showed up, Like we called you 0:01:32.959 --> 0:01:36.600 guys out and you responded, thank you very and thank 0:01:36.600 --> 0:01:39.880 you Toronto for not making us call you out. But 0:01:40.480 --> 0:01:42.600 there are still tickets remaining for August twenty nine than 0:01:42.720 --> 0:01:45.440 Boston at the Wilbur in Portland, Maine. You know, we're 0:01:45.560 --> 0:01:51.200 venturing up into the hinterlands of America next after that, 0:01:51.240 --> 0:01:55.240 but August thirty, if there are still plenty of great 0:01:55.240 --> 0:01:58.040 tickets left there, and then the same can be said 0:01:58.080 --> 0:02:03.200 in October and Orlando and October tenth. I think I 0:02:03.200 --> 0:02:06.200 said October nine right in Orlando, October tenth in New Orleans. Yep, 0:02:06.320 --> 0:02:09.000 that's right, Brooklyn. I'm not worried about that. Already, all 0:02:09.000 --> 0:02:12.480 sold out, the whole thing, all three nights. Man, should 0:02:12.480 --> 0:02:16.200 we had a fourth, jeez, I don't know. We'll talk 0:02:16.240 --> 0:02:18.560 about it anyway. Thanks to everyone who came out. It 0:02:18.560 --> 0:02:20.480 was a lot of fun and this is a good one, 0:02:20.560 --> 0:02:22.400 so you don't want you don't want to miss it. Yeah, 0:02:22.480 --> 0:02:25.320 so come on out, especially Portland, Maine. Let's get with 0:02:25.360 --> 0:02:28.680 it all right now, Nuclear Semiotics, which I didn't know 0:02:28.760 --> 0:02:32.400 I loved, but I do. Really Do you remember Visible 0:02:32.480 --> 0:02:35.160 did a very famous episode on this very topic. I 0:02:35.200 --> 0:02:38.760 didn't hear that. I specifically avoided going back and listening 0:02:38.760 --> 0:02:41.920 to it because I don't want to be um stunk 0:02:42.000 --> 0:02:44.880 upon by its taint. Does that make sense? You don't 0:02:44.919 --> 0:02:47.919 want Roman Mars is taint um thinking on you. It's 0:02:47.960 --> 0:02:50.640 more like it's just such a classic episode that I 0:02:50.639 --> 0:02:52.400 don't want it to like leak in. I don't want 0:02:52.400 --> 0:02:55.200 to actually rip it off. Yeah, well we we certainly 0:02:55.240 --> 0:02:58.760 can't Invisible this thing, because that is a show that 0:02:58.840 --> 0:03:02.880 exists at that hop echelon this industry. Sure so so 0:03:02.880 --> 0:03:05.680 so do we Sure we're up there all right? But 0:03:05.840 --> 0:03:08.000 if you like this one, if this stuff like floats 0:03:08.000 --> 0:03:09.239 your boat and you're like, I want to know more, 0:03:09.400 --> 0:03:13.240 go listen to the Visible episode. Yeah, this thing really 0:03:13.280 --> 0:03:17.400 triggered a lot of like synapsis firing for me, and 0:03:17.440 --> 0:03:21.320 I think, like I think I really enjoy this kind 0:03:21.360 --> 0:03:26.920 of thought experiment, problem solving stuff. I think I would 0:03:26.919 --> 0:03:30.400 really dig like that. Part of the zombie Apocalypse is 0:03:30.440 --> 0:03:33.840 figuring the stuff out as a team. Because the whole 0:03:33.840 --> 0:03:35.880 time I was reading this, I was saying, great idea, 0:03:36.040 --> 0:03:38.520 terrible idea. They should do this, they shouldn't do that. 0:03:38.840 --> 0:03:40.800 Go sit down. Yeah you I like the cut of 0:03:40.840 --> 0:03:43.120 your gym. It was really cool. I dug this. I've 0:03:43.120 --> 0:03:46.080 never heard of it, so thank you. Oh You're very welcome. 0:03:46.840 --> 0:03:50.160 I actually heard of it before Roman Mars made the episode, 0:03:50.200 --> 0:03:52.680 so I can't really thank him. But well, not before 0:03:52.680 --> 0:03:54.440 he heard of it, because I think it's well known 0:03:54.480 --> 0:03:59.440 that Roman's first words were nuclear semiotics. That's true. Yeah, 0:03:59.520 --> 0:04:03.960 even before or Mama's um. I could totally believe that. Actually, 0:04:05.040 --> 0:04:07.600 uh so, what we're talking about, is, Chuck said a 0:04:07.640 --> 0:04:09.240 couple of times, for those of you who don't know, 0:04:10.000 --> 0:04:14.160 is nuclear semiotics. And that is a very specialized branch, 0:04:15.040 --> 0:04:20.000 interdisciplinary branch of I guess science that involves also basically 0:04:20.040 --> 0:04:22.200 any field of research that you can throw at the 0:04:22.240 --> 0:04:25.640 wall would probably have some function to play in the 0:04:25.680 --> 0:04:28.680 field of nuclear semiotics. And to to make a long 0:04:28.720 --> 0:04:31.559 story short, to do the too long, didn't read version 0:04:31.600 --> 0:04:38.120 of this TL Semicolon dr um is nuclear semiotics seeks 0:04:38.160 --> 0:04:43.160 to figure out how to warn the future humans to 0:04:43.279 --> 0:04:47.080 come or whatever is here. Sure, good point. I mean, 0:04:47.080 --> 0:04:50.479 why discriminate right to warn the future humans or the 0:04:50.520 --> 0:04:56.080 future super intelligent jellyfish whatever to come. Hey, this is 0:04:56.120 --> 0:04:59.800 a very dangerous radioactive dump site that we've put here. 0:05:00.440 --> 0:05:03.800 Stay away. Yeah, it's that easy. It sounds easy. The 0:05:03.880 --> 0:05:07.680 problem is is if you presume that it's easy, you're 0:05:07.720 --> 0:05:10.680 making a lot of assumptions that aren't necessarily going to 0:05:10.760 --> 0:05:12.840 hold up. Oh yeah, like a lot of times and 0:05:12.880 --> 0:05:14.599 are like they should just do And I would even 0:05:14.600 --> 0:05:17.200 stop halfway through my thought. It was like, now that 0:05:17.200 --> 0:05:20.560 that wouldn't work. It's true because our languages might be 0:05:20.600 --> 0:05:24.279 gone by then. Our symbols don't necessarily make sense outside 0:05:24.279 --> 0:05:27.400 of the context that we understand them in. Um civilization 0:05:27.480 --> 0:05:31.159 might be ridiculously advanced by them. Civilization might be in 0:05:31.160 --> 0:05:33.560 a state of collapse by then. We have no idea. 0:05:33.800 --> 0:05:36.520 But the point of nuclear semiotics is to figure out 0:05:36.520 --> 0:05:40.160 how to come up with a um a message that 0:05:40.279 --> 0:05:45.000 is understandable to everybody in any situation in the future. 0:05:45.400 --> 0:05:48.760 And the current state of the art is let's figure 0:05:48.760 --> 0:05:51.440 out how to speak as far as ten thousand years 0:05:51.440 --> 0:05:55.719 into the future. Yeah, I mean, and that's like being generous. 0:05:55.760 --> 0:05:57.880 It needs to go beyond that. It does, because the 0:05:57.920 --> 0:06:00.560 whole point of nuclear semiotics, the whole porn of warning 0:06:00.560 --> 0:06:03.560 the future, is this stuff, this nuclear waste that we're 0:06:03.560 --> 0:06:07.520 putting into the ground now, is going to be dangerous 0:06:07.560 --> 0:06:11.120 for tens and tens of thousands of years. Plutonium two 0:06:11.160 --> 0:06:14.040 thirty nine has a half life of twenty four thousand years. 0:06:14.480 --> 0:06:19.240 There's something called um Technetium ninety nine has a half 0:06:19.240 --> 0:06:22.080 life of two hundred and eleven thousand years, So another 0:06:22.120 --> 0:06:24.960 one is like one point seven million year half life. 0:06:25.279 --> 0:06:28.880 This is the nuclear waste that we're creating now and 0:06:28.920 --> 0:06:32.279 are putting in the ground. Yeah. And uh, Julia Layton, 0:06:32.360 --> 0:06:34.920 who was one of our writers who does great work 0:06:34.960 --> 0:06:37.400 for us, she made a lot of great points, which 0:06:37.440 --> 0:06:40.239 is like the history of human evolution is two hundred 0:06:40.279 --> 0:06:43.960 thousand years, and like we've only been like reading and 0:06:43.960 --> 0:06:46.960 writing for how long about five thousand, less than six 0:06:46.960 --> 0:06:51.440 thousand years. Yeah, So it's it sounds like like you said, 0:06:51.480 --> 0:06:54.520 it sounds simple. And so many times I thought I 0:06:54.560 --> 0:06:57.520 had I thought I had it cracked, only to think 0:06:57.920 --> 0:07:00.240 like I was, like, why don't they just uh do 0:07:00.360 --> 0:07:04.440 something purely visual and and stage a play of people 0:07:04.560 --> 0:07:07.640 at that site digging in and then dying. And it's like, 0:07:07.680 --> 0:07:09.400 what what do you do with it? Well, I'll just 0:07:09.400 --> 0:07:13.200 put it on a DVD that just plays on a loop. 0:07:14.320 --> 0:07:16.720 It's like, how are you gonna power that thing? You 0:07:16.760 --> 0:07:20.760 know what happens when everybody's converted to blue ray? Yeah exactly? 0:07:20.920 --> 0:07:23.240 Or you know, well, then solar put a solar panel up. 0:07:23.760 --> 0:07:25.120 He's got the last forever. But what have it done? 0:07:25.160 --> 0:07:29.320 What if there's like a forever nuclear storm or whatever. 0:07:29.600 --> 0:07:31.960 But if the sun never shines again on Earth in 0:07:32.400 --> 0:07:35.200 eight thousand years, that's could happen. That's the cool thing 0:07:35.360 --> 0:07:38.480 about thinking into the deep future is all the things 0:07:38.520 --> 0:07:40.840 that will go wrong. Yeah, it makes you realize like 0:07:41.040 --> 0:07:45.400 how specific everything you think and know and understand really 0:07:45.520 --> 0:07:48.200 is to your current time. Yeah, it's very cool. She 0:07:48.240 --> 0:07:50.320 brings up the point about an apple, like when you 0:07:50.360 --> 0:07:53.000 see the word apple, you don't see the word apple, 0:07:53.560 --> 0:07:56.640 you see visualize the symbol of that is an apple. 0:07:57.240 --> 0:08:00.360 So it's like it's almost like the words and very 0:08:00.400 --> 0:08:03.160 much of the words will just not have meaning anymore 0:08:03.200 --> 0:08:06.840 at some point. Man. Well, let's dig into this stuff. 0:08:06.960 --> 0:08:09.520 You're ready, let's do it. So to start, we should 0:08:09.520 --> 0:08:12.440 talk about where this all came from. It came from 0:08:13.000 --> 0:08:17.080 a new type of nuclear storage solution, nuclear waste storage 0:08:17.080 --> 0:08:23.600 solution called UM long term geological repositories, and it is 0:08:23.640 --> 0:08:27.360 basically digging into the earth a couple of miles into 0:08:27.360 --> 0:08:31.120 the earth, putting our nuclear waste there, again, waste that's 0:08:31.160 --> 0:08:34.840 going to be harmful the health for tens of thousands, 0:08:34.920 --> 0:08:39.320 hundreds of thousands of years, and sealing it up and 0:08:39.360 --> 0:08:41.840 then covering over the site and then putting a warning 0:08:41.880 --> 0:08:46.160 on there. And right now, the general consensus is that 0:08:46.400 --> 0:08:50.040 salt beds are the best place to put that nuclear waste. 0:08:50.040 --> 0:08:52.400 And there's actually some pretty good reasons why. Yeah, we 0:08:52.440 --> 0:08:55.600 could do an episode on nuclear storage. I think I 0:08:55.679 --> 0:08:57.559 really want to in and of itself. Yeah, I don't 0:08:57.559 --> 0:08:59.600 know if that's a shorty or a long it's probably 0:08:59.600 --> 0:09:02.800 a long. But just briefly, the reason salt beds are 0:09:02.840 --> 0:09:06.440 preferable is because the fact that they're even there suggests 0:09:06.480 --> 0:09:09.160 that there's no water. If they if there was water, 0:09:09.200 --> 0:09:12.480 they would have been dissolved long ago. It's really relatively 0:09:12.520 --> 0:09:15.400 easy to mine into them. And then what's awesome about 0:09:15.440 --> 0:09:18.960 salt is that when you mine a shaft into a 0:09:19.040 --> 0:09:23.440 salt bed and you put your deposit there, then you 0:09:23.480 --> 0:09:28.640 pull back out, Um, the salt bed actually heals itself over, 0:09:28.760 --> 0:09:31.800 like just a few decades, seals itself back up, right, Yes, 0:09:31.920 --> 0:09:34.600 So you put a container that's been engineered to hold 0:09:34.600 --> 0:09:37.120 the nuclear waste inside for ten thousand years. Yeah, it's 0:09:37.160 --> 0:09:39.440 also in a container. You should point that out, right, 0:09:39.720 --> 0:09:44.480 You're putting it into a borehole in the salt. The 0:09:44.520 --> 0:09:47.119 salt is going to grow back around it and intubate, 0:09:48.000 --> 0:09:52.760 perhaps permanently in this salt very strong to right, Yeah, 0:09:52.960 --> 0:09:55.439 it is fairly strong. I mean, like if you're mining 0:09:55.559 --> 0:09:59.040 using modern mining equipment, it's it's really easy to mine into. 0:09:59.480 --> 0:10:01.679 But if you have like a pickaxe or something is 0:10:01.760 --> 0:10:04.480 rock to salt. Rock is what it's called. Right. So 0:10:04.520 --> 0:10:06.480 there's a lot of reasons why people have figured out 0:10:06.559 --> 0:10:10.120 like this is not a bad idea to intomb nuclear waste. 0:10:10.400 --> 0:10:13.880 But but here's the thing. We can't just intumbate and 0:10:13.920 --> 0:10:17.720 walk away, Like we have a responsibility for those of 0:10:17.800 --> 0:10:21.800 us generating this waste today to warn the future. And 0:10:21.840 --> 0:10:24.439 it's on the future if they listen to us or not. 0:10:24.960 --> 0:10:27.120 That's on them, right, But we have to make them 0:10:27.160 --> 0:10:29.600 able to listen to us exactly, Like we have a 0:10:29.640 --> 0:10:32.640 responsibility to do that because some people are proposed like, hey, 0:10:32.840 --> 0:10:34.920 let's just bury and forget about it. The chances of 0:10:34.960 --> 0:10:38.240 somebody actually finding it are pretty slim. Just bury and 0:10:38.320 --> 0:10:40.560 forget about it, and that's probably the best, the best 0:10:40.600 --> 0:10:42.800 way to go. And people said, it's not a bad idea, 0:10:42.840 --> 0:10:45.040 but it's actually pretty bad ideas. He actually, I thought 0:10:45.040 --> 0:10:47.640 that one wasn't the worst idea. It's not that was 0:10:47.679 --> 0:10:50.480 the behavioral psychologists. He was like, And he wasn't like 0:10:50.520 --> 0:10:52.680 just forget about it. He was like, maybe the smartest 0:10:52.679 --> 0:10:55.480 thing to do is to leave it unmarked, right because, 0:10:55.480 --> 0:10:59.600 as we'll see, attracting attention to something like exactly attracts attention. 0:11:00.080 --> 0:11:03.200 It's interesting thought experiment, right. That was that psychologist. By 0:11:03.200 --> 0:11:06.679 the way, is Dr Percy Tannenbaum Really no, no wonder 0:11:06.679 --> 0:11:09.120 I like that of the East Hampton tenembombs. So we 0:11:09.120 --> 0:11:12.360 should point out that there's a couple of a couple 0:11:12.360 --> 0:11:16.040 of big times that these um that this has been commissioned, like, hey, 0:11:16.080 --> 0:11:18.679 we need to think of something one for a site 0:11:18.720 --> 0:11:21.440 that never happened, uh, And one for a site that 0:11:21.520 --> 0:11:23.800 has happened, the one that has happened. It's only one 0:11:23.800 --> 0:11:25.800 in the United States right now, the only one in 0:11:25.800 --> 0:11:28.440 the world as far as they know now, it's number three. 0:11:29.080 --> 0:11:31.760 It's the third largest. I didn't see what the other 0:11:31.800 --> 0:11:34.360 two were. It must have been the first in the world. Then, yeah, 0:11:34.400 --> 0:11:36.640 probably the first in the world. Yeah, which makes sense 0:11:36.679 --> 0:11:38.960 because the other two are bigger. But this is in 0:11:38.960 --> 0:11:42.920 New Mexico. It's called the Whip the Waist Isolation Pilot Plant, 0:11:43.760 --> 0:11:48.880 and this one they are, uh, they're actively guarding for 0:11:49.000 --> 0:11:51.880 They've committed the Department of Energy is committed to guarding 0:11:51.920 --> 0:11:55.160 it with people for a hundred years. They have hired 0:11:55.840 --> 0:11:59.720 Barney five year contract to look over this nuclear for 0:11:59.800 --> 0:12:01.439 it least a hundred years. It's not like at the 0:12:01.520 --> 0:12:03.400 end of the hundred years are gonna just like put 0:12:03.400 --> 0:12:06.320 a padlock on it and walk away. I imagine they 0:12:06.360 --> 0:12:08.439 will keep guarding it as long as they feel like 0:12:08.480 --> 0:12:11.960 it needs guarding. I don't know if that's something I 0:12:12.000 --> 0:12:14.080 don't know, man. I mean, we're talking about a government 0:12:14.120 --> 0:12:17.080 run program here. At least a hundred years. We can 0:12:17.120 --> 0:12:21.480 at least say that, yes, they agreed to that, so uh, 0:12:21.559 --> 0:12:25.160 you know, the whole idea arose um before that, though, 0:12:25.800 --> 0:12:29.199 what was the other one in Nevada. That's the Yucky 0:12:29.280 --> 0:12:31.120 Mountain one. That was the first one, right, that's the 0:12:31.120 --> 0:12:34.880 first one that that never happened. But that's when, you know, 0:12:34.920 --> 0:12:37.680 in the seventies is when this idea sort of came about. 0:12:37.880 --> 0:12:40.400 And I think it was two when it was sort 0:12:40.400 --> 0:12:45.880 of codified as an official um I guess science or yeah, 0:12:45.960 --> 0:12:48.800 it is. It's a branch. It's an interdisciplinary branch of science. 0:12:48.880 --> 0:12:52.240 Nuclear semionics is, and it is. It's because the e 0:12:52.360 --> 0:12:55.760 p A came up with a rule in two a law. 0:12:55.880 --> 0:12:57.600 Really that's the eighty one. I got that wrong, by 0:12:57.640 --> 0:12:59.440 the way, So it's eighty one that they came up 0:12:59.440 --> 0:13:01.800 with the law. Uh well, it became a discipline in 0:13:01.840 --> 0:13:06.120 nineteen eighty one with that Yucky Mountain Repository project. And 0:13:06.160 --> 0:13:09.280 I think from that Yucky Mountain Repository project, because we 0:13:09.280 --> 0:13:11.720 were starting to figure out how to deposit the stuff 0:13:11.720 --> 0:13:14.160 for for a long time, the e p A came 0:13:14.200 --> 0:13:16.760 up with a rule I think it was two that said, 0:13:16.920 --> 0:13:19.520 if you're going to create these kind of repositories for 0:13:19.640 --> 0:13:22.200 nuclear waste, you also have to figure out how to 0:13:22.559 --> 0:13:26.280 come up with a permanent warning sign. And everybody was like, 0:13:26.320 --> 0:13:28.319 that's no problem, of course, and then the EPs to 0:13:28.440 --> 0:13:30.800 think about it. It's harder than you think. He said, 0:13:30.840 --> 0:13:35.120 just slap that, uh, that nuclear waste logo that everyone knows. 0:13:35.880 --> 0:13:38.679 And everyone was like, everyone doesn't know that. It's been 0:13:38.679 --> 0:13:42.360 around forever. Everyone doesn't know that now, right, much less 0:13:42.840 --> 0:13:45.600 in two hundred thousand years. Yeah, did you see the 0:13:45.760 --> 0:13:49.120 how that was created? Yeah? It was. It was a 0:13:49.120 --> 0:13:51.440 a group doodle. I don't know how that happens. I 0:13:51.440 --> 0:13:53.680 think that means they can't ascribe it to one person. 0:13:53.880 --> 0:13:55.600 They know there was like five people on one of 0:13:55.600 --> 0:14:00.000 those giants like silver spoons, pencils. Yeah, this is an 0:14:00.080 --> 0:14:04.240 nineteen six was it at Berkeley? And it was a 0:14:04.240 --> 0:14:08.480 group doodle in the science class? And is that a 0:14:08.600 --> 0:14:13.079 a band name group dood Wiggles or something? Yeah, I 0:14:13.120 --> 0:14:15.480 think it's an album title for sure. So the Wiggles 0:14:15.720 --> 0:14:19.640 group doodle. Absolutely, that's probably a real thing. That's our 0:14:19.680 --> 0:14:21.960 gift to you, Wiggles. But I saw this was interesting 0:14:22.000 --> 0:14:26.240 in the symbol came under consideration for wider use because 0:14:26.280 --> 0:14:29.480 at first it was just a group doodle and then 0:14:29.520 --> 0:14:34.520 the Brookhaven National Laboratory requested a standardized symbol of standardized 0:14:34.560 --> 0:14:38.840 colors for their radiation safety program, and there was more 0:14:38.920 --> 0:14:43.280 argument about the colors than the actual symbol um because 0:14:43.600 --> 0:14:45.160 at first we're like, you can't use yellow because we 0:14:45.240 --> 0:14:47.080 use yellow for a lot of stuff. Yeah, they wanted 0:14:47.120 --> 0:14:50.160 to make sure that it didn't get overused so people 0:14:50.160 --> 0:14:52.040 would just become kind of blind to because they saw 0:14:52.080 --> 0:14:53.320 it so much. And they were like, have you heard 0:14:53.320 --> 0:14:57.040 a striper get easy? Yellow and black? They're like, no, 0:14:57.120 --> 0:14:58.880 I haven't heard him. And give us forty years. You 0:14:59.080 --> 0:15:01.200 have heard of them, believe, and then in forty two 0:15:01.280 --> 0:15:04.080 years no one will have heard of them. So I 0:15:04.080 --> 0:15:08.600 think the original design was um, it was. I saw 0:15:08.640 --> 0:15:12.640 them in concert. We won't even believe it was. Magenta 0:15:12.680 --> 0:15:16.480 blades on a blue background was the original design, and 0:15:16.560 --> 0:15:18.920 it was chosen because it was uncommon. But then an 0:15:18.960 --> 0:15:22.840 oak Ridge, Tennessee at the oak Ridge National Laboratory, they 0:15:22.840 --> 0:15:26.880 went with the yellow background in later on in and 0:15:26.920 --> 0:15:28.920 I guess it's stuck. That's where the oak Ridge boys 0:15:28.920 --> 0:15:33.280 were all scientists, that's right. So it was originally magenta 0:15:33.320 --> 0:15:36.480 on blue, right, Yes, And the logo we're talking about 0:15:36.520 --> 0:15:38.640 for those of you, I know, it's called the nuclear trefoil. 0:15:38.800 --> 0:15:43.320 You know, it's a circle and then three cortial circles 0:15:43.320 --> 0:15:45.640 around the blades. And from what I saw, one of 0:15:45.640 --> 0:15:49.800 the original group doodlers explained it as um it's supposed 0:15:49.840 --> 0:15:53.520 to be an atom with activity around it. Yeah, that's it, 0:15:53.760 --> 0:15:55.840 which I never saw it before, but now that I've 0:15:55.880 --> 0:15:58.600 read that, I can't unsee it. And that is really 0:15:58.640 --> 0:16:00.200 what it looks like. It's a pretty great it will 0:16:00.240 --> 0:16:02.960 doodle but it's like you said, that is not a 0:16:03.080 --> 0:16:07.120 universally accepted symbol, which is a big problem. And it 0:16:07.240 --> 0:16:10.520 doesn't it doesn't evoke like, oh, an atom. Of course, 0:16:10.640 --> 0:16:12.360 I know what an atom looks like. I just saw 0:16:12.480 --> 0:16:14.280 one go down the street a second ago, and this 0:16:14.400 --> 0:16:18.160 looks like an atom. It's a symbolic representation of an atom, 0:16:18.360 --> 0:16:21.840 which means that after people stop thinking about what atoms 0:16:21.920 --> 0:16:25.200 look like, maybe a thousand years or five thousand years 0:16:25.240 --> 0:16:27.720 down the road, if something happens, no one's going to 0:16:27.760 --> 0:16:30.000 look at that and be like, oh, it's an atom. 0:16:30.040 --> 0:16:32.960 Activity around an atom, that must mean there's radiation here. 0:16:33.160 --> 0:16:36.920 Hence this is a dangerous sign that's not going to happen. Uh. 0:16:36.960 --> 0:16:39.040 The other thing you would think, is just just put 0:16:39.120 --> 0:16:42.480 up in a bunch of languages. Done. Ye, here's the thing. 0:16:42.960 --> 0:16:46.480 Languages are disappearing. I'm gonna ask you, actually, what is 0:16:46.520 --> 0:16:53.800 your best guess? A language dies out every blank nine 0:16:54.040 --> 0:16:59.640 million seconds? Is that right? Did I nail it? Jerk? 0:17:01.400 --> 0:17:03.600 I gotta get out of calculator. A language dies out 0:17:03.600 --> 0:17:06.640 every fourteen days. I'm pretty sure that's nine millions. Isn't 0:17:06.640 --> 0:17:08.720 that staggering? God? What if it was? Are you about 0:17:08.760 --> 0:17:11.120 to do that? Yeah? You keep talking. So that's about 0:17:11.119 --> 0:17:14.080 twenty five languages per year that die out. And um, 0:17:14.160 --> 0:17:17.320 that's really sad, it is, and it is very sad. 0:17:17.359 --> 0:17:20.520 And granted these aren't you know, major languages, but they're 0:17:20.560 --> 0:17:23.600 important to the people who speak them. Um. But that's 0:17:23.640 --> 0:17:27.480 just sort of to uh to to get across the 0:17:27.560 --> 0:17:30.480 point that throwing it up in a bunch of languages 0:17:30.480 --> 0:17:34.680 there's no guarantee and in fact, in all likelihood and 0:17:34.720 --> 0:17:38.320 in fifty thousand years, there won't be English or German 0:17:38.440 --> 0:17:42.800 or French, there may not even be humans. That's we 0:17:42.920 --> 0:17:46.280 maybe what what's the calculation? Six days? I was a 0:17:46.280 --> 0:17:49.960 little lot. Okay there there there, Maybe we may all 0:17:50.000 --> 0:17:53.480 be like post biological humans. You know, uploaded our consciousness 0:17:53.480 --> 0:17:56.399 onto like the Internet or something, in which point that 0:17:56.440 --> 0:17:58.320 really won't matter to tell you the truth. Where the 0:17:58.400 --> 0:18:00.879 nuclear waste is buried? But who knows? It could be 0:18:00.880 --> 0:18:03.359 an intelligent species, It could be humans who don't know 0:18:03.400 --> 0:18:06.000 how to read or write. The fact is is the 0:18:06.040 --> 0:18:09.560 stuff that we take for granted changes a lot faster 0:18:09.680 --> 0:18:12.840 than you think. UM, And even if it doesn't necessarily 0:18:12.880 --> 0:18:16.359 die out, the changes that come along are pretty alarming. 0:18:16.640 --> 0:18:19.159 I found a UM. I've been watching a lot of 0:18:19.200 --> 0:18:24.479 Silicon Valley lately. I told you I my UM vocal 0:18:24.520 --> 0:18:29.120 delivery sounds a lot like Jared's. It's a currently think 0:18:29.359 --> 0:18:34.200 a lot, and I never really put those two together. 0:18:34.200 --> 0:18:36.120 We keep an ear out for it. Now and see 0:18:36.119 --> 0:18:39.560 what you think I mean? Tell me I'm wrong. I mean, 0:18:39.600 --> 0:18:42.359 I would have to dissociate so much because I like 0:18:42.440 --> 0:18:46.600 you and Jared is like such a pedantic bureaucrat him. 0:18:47.040 --> 0:18:49.960 I mean, he's fun to watch, but I wouldn't say 0:18:50.000 --> 0:18:52.960 that he's like the most likable character. Maybe he is, 0:18:53.000 --> 0:18:55.600 I don't know. I would say pedantic bureaucrat is not 0:18:56.520 --> 0:19:00.840 entirely off for me. Jared needs a girlfriend that's just okay, 0:19:01.160 --> 0:19:03.359 So I do not, because I have a fine wife. 0:19:04.200 --> 0:19:05.920 Uh So let me give you an example of how 0:19:05.960 --> 0:19:08.800 English has changed. This is a quote from Sir Gawain 0:19:08.880 --> 0:19:13.840 and the Green Knight. It was written in thirty fifty 0:19:13.920 --> 0:19:18.080 years ago. This is in English. The steel of a 0:19:18.160 --> 0:19:22.040 stiff staff, the stern hit gripped that was wounded with 0:19:22.119 --> 0:19:25.400 iron into the wand's end, and i'll be graven with 0:19:25.480 --> 0:19:29.120 green and gravy as works. And you should see it spelled. 0:19:29.200 --> 0:19:30.960 Oh yeah, I mean I was an English major. We 0:19:30.960 --> 0:19:32.520 had to go through this stuff. It was a slog. 0:19:32.720 --> 0:19:34.960 Do you have a guess at what I just said? Yeah, 0:19:35.000 --> 0:19:37.840 you said that? He uh, the Green Knights sat down 0:19:37.840 --> 0:19:41.199 and watch some Silicon valley. That's right. It's that the 0:19:41.280 --> 0:19:44.520 grim man gripped it by its strong handle, which was 0:19:44.560 --> 0:19:47.080 wound with iron all the way to the end, engraven 0:19:47.080 --> 0:19:51.320 and green with graceful designs. So like, that's English fifty 0:19:51.359 --> 0:19:54.160 years ago. English is still around six hundred and fifty years. 0:19:54.160 --> 0:19:57.600 We're talking about thousands, tens of thousands of years exactly. 0:19:57.680 --> 0:20:01.000 So that's a problem. Languages evolved. Language is die. Symbols 0:20:01.040 --> 0:20:03.600 don't quite make sense out of context, so there's a 0:20:03.600 --> 0:20:06.920 lot of challenges that face the people who to try 0:20:06.960 --> 0:20:10.600 to explain this stuff or figure out how to, um 0:20:10.640 --> 0:20:13.040 explain it to future people. I think it's a better 0:20:13.080 --> 0:20:15.760 way to put it, that's right. Uh, they have looked 0:20:15.840 --> 0:20:20.000 in simio semioticians for people who who really want on 0:20:20.040 --> 0:20:23.520 this stuff. Um. I think I'm an amateur simiotician after 0:20:23.560 --> 0:20:26.520 reading this. But one thing that they're looking for, because 0:20:26.560 --> 0:20:29.760 what you want is ideally is instant recognition and not 0:20:29.920 --> 0:20:32.200 something I mean, yeah maybe if you have to figure 0:20:32.240 --> 0:20:34.840 it out, but what you want is something that conveys 0:20:34.960 --> 0:20:37.679 danger right when you look at it, Like just steer 0:20:37.760 --> 0:20:41.240 clear of this place, not come closer and start poking around. 0:20:41.359 --> 0:20:44.439 Just go away, that's right. So um. She makes a 0:20:44.440 --> 0:20:47.640 great point though that, like it's a double edged sword, 0:20:47.640 --> 0:20:50.840 like you're talking about earlier. If you you know, human beings, 0:20:51.160 --> 0:20:53.520 if you show an extreme skier or a sign this 0:20:53.600 --> 0:20:56.360 is danger, don't ski this way. He's gonna say, bra, 0:20:56.960 --> 0:20:59.919 let's do it. Yeah, you know, give me some Hamma 0:21:00.040 --> 0:21:03.200 side power drink. So there's a very very fine line 0:21:04.000 --> 0:21:09.320 between warning people and enticing people. Yeah, even inadvertently exactly, 0:21:09.400 --> 0:21:11.560 you know. I mean, there's um, she she points out 0:21:11.560 --> 0:21:13.560 haunted houses because I'm like, yeah, not everybody's like a 0:21:13.560 --> 0:21:16.879 red Bull extreme sports person, but people do like it. 0:21:17.000 --> 0:21:20.359 Haunted houses too, So that abandoned like scary place is 0:21:20.400 --> 0:21:23.480 so creepy. Let's go there for Halloween because maybe Halloween 0:21:23.520 --> 0:21:27.240 survived but the English language didn't. Who knows. Um So yeah, 0:21:27.280 --> 0:21:29.919 you you you really walk a fine line here between 0:21:30.040 --> 0:21:34.160 warning people away and saying I dare you? Right? Yeah, 0:21:34.200 --> 0:21:38.480 My whole jam is I think they need to uh 0:21:38.840 --> 0:21:41.680 the what will survive if there are humans at all 0:21:41.880 --> 0:21:44.639 is emotion, So I think they need to appeal to 0:21:44.720 --> 0:21:50.880 human emotions like fear, ah, more than words and symbols. Okay, well, 0:21:50.960 --> 0:21:52.560 let's take a break and we'll get back into this 0:21:52.560 --> 0:22:21.040