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Speaker 1: Hello, Maine in Greater New England. We're coming to see

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Speaker 1: you guys in Portland and we can't wait. We would

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Speaker 1: love to see you there. Yep, we'll be at the

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Speaker 1: State Theater on August. If you're interested, you can get

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Speaker 1: tickets and information at s y s K live dot com.

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Speaker 1: There's some lobster at us. Welcome to Stuff You Should Know,

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Speaker 1: a production of I Heart Radios How Stuff Works. Hey,

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Speaker 1: and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, There's Charles

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Speaker 1: W Chuck Bryant, there's Jerry over there, and this is

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Speaker 1: Stuff you should Know, Uh, the podcast. And you're about

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Speaker 1: to say that the Blank Edition. Yeah, I was, but

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Speaker 1: I couldn't think of anything. It was literally the blank Edition,

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Speaker 1: was it? I mean, you couldn't think of anything? You

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Speaker 1: were blacked. Oh no, that's right, it was the blank Edition.

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Speaker 1: Oh gosh, it's a terrible start, Chuck. So how about this,

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Speaker 1: just to uh divert ourselves from that disaster, what was

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Speaker 1: not a disaster where our live shows we just did.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, we we finally got up on stage everyone

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Speaker 1: since first time since January kick the Rust off in

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Speaker 1: Chicago and Toronto, and both of them were we just killed.

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Speaker 1: They were great. Yeah, everybody were great. Everyone had a

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Speaker 1: really great time. Yeah, they told us so. They seemed

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Speaker 1: to be legitimately meaning what they were saying. Yeah, it

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Speaker 1: was really really great to get back on stage with you,

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Speaker 1: my friend. And also also also hats off to Chicago

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Speaker 1: for showing up. They showed up, Like we called you

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Speaker 1: guys out and you responded, thank you very and thank

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Speaker 1: you Toronto for not making us call you out. But

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Speaker 1: there are still tickets remaining for August twenty nine than

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Speaker 1: Boston at the Wilbur in Portland, Maine. You know, we're

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Speaker 1: venturing up into the hinterlands of America next after that,

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Speaker 1: but August thirty, if there are still plenty of great

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Speaker 1: tickets left there, and then the same can be said

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Speaker 1: in October and Orlando and October tenth. I think I

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Speaker 1: said October nine right in Orlando, October tenth in New Orleans. Yep,

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Speaker 1: that's right, Brooklyn. I'm not worried about that. Already, all

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Speaker 1: sold out, the whole thing, all three nights. Man, should

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Speaker 1: we had a fourth, jeez, I don't know. We'll talk

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Speaker 1: about it anyway. Thanks to everyone who came out. It

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Speaker 1: was a lot of fun and this is a good one,

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Speaker 1: so you don't want you don't want to miss it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so come on out, especially Portland, Maine. Let's get with

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Speaker 1: it all right now, Nuclear Semiotics, which I didn't know

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Speaker 1: I loved, but I do. Really Do you remember Visible

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Speaker 1: did a very famous episode on this very topic. I

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Speaker 1: didn't hear that. I specifically avoided going back and listening

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Speaker 1: to it because I don't want to be um stunk

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Speaker 1: upon by its taint. Does that make sense? You don't

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Speaker 1: want Roman Mars is taint um thinking on you. It's

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Speaker 1: more like it's just such a classic episode that I

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Speaker 1: don't want it to like leak in. I don't want

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Speaker 1: to actually rip it off. Yeah, well we we certainly

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Speaker 1: can't Invisible this thing, because that is a show that

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Speaker 1: exists at that hop echelon this industry. Sure so so

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Speaker 1: so do we Sure we're up there all right? But

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Speaker 1: if you like this one, if this stuff like floats

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Speaker 1: your boat and you're like, I want to know more,

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Speaker 1: go listen to the Visible episode. Yeah, this thing really

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Speaker 1: triggered a lot of like synapsis firing for me, and

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Speaker 1: I think, like I think I really enjoy this kind

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Speaker 1: of thought experiment, problem solving stuff. I think I would

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Speaker 1: really dig like that. Part of the zombie Apocalypse is

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Speaker 1: figuring the stuff out as a team. Because the whole

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Speaker 1: time I was reading this, I was saying, great idea,

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Speaker 1: terrible idea. They should do this, they shouldn't do that.

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Speaker 1: Go sit down. Yeah you I like the cut of

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Speaker 1: your gym. It was really cool. I dug this. I've

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Speaker 1: never heard of it, so thank you. Oh You're very welcome.

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Speaker 1: I actually heard of it before Roman Mars made the episode,

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Speaker 1: so I can't really thank him. But well, not before

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Speaker 1: he heard of it, because I think it's well known

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Speaker 1: that Roman's first words were nuclear semiotics. That's true. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: even before or Mama's um. I could totally believe that. Actually,

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Speaker 1: uh so, what we're talking about, is, Chuck said a

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Speaker 1: couple of times, for those of you who don't know,

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Speaker 1: is nuclear semiotics. And that is a very specialized branch,

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Speaker 1: interdisciplinary branch of I guess science that involves also basically

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Speaker 1: any field of research that you can throw at the

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Speaker 1: wall would probably have some function to play in the

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Speaker 1: field of nuclear semiotics. And to to make a long

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Speaker 1: story short, to do the too long, didn't read version

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Speaker 1: of this TL Semicolon dr um is nuclear semiotics seeks

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Speaker 1: to figure out how to warn the future humans to

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Speaker 1: come or whatever is here. Sure, good point. I mean,

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Speaker 1: why discriminate right to warn the future humans or the

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Speaker 1: future super intelligent jellyfish whatever to come. Hey, this is

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Speaker 1: a very dangerous radioactive dump site that we've put here.

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Speaker 1: Stay away. Yeah, it's that easy. It sounds easy. The

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Speaker 1: problem is is if you presume that it's easy, you're

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Speaker 1: making a lot of assumptions that aren't necessarily going to

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Speaker 1: hold up. Oh yeah, like a lot of times and

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Speaker 1: are like they should just do And I would even

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Speaker 1: stop halfway through my thought. It was like, now that

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Speaker 1: that wouldn't work. It's true because our languages might be

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Speaker 1: gone by then. Our symbols don't necessarily make sense outside

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Speaker 1: of the context that we understand them in. Um civilization

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Speaker 1: might be ridiculously advanced by them. Civilization might be in

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Speaker 1: a state of collapse by then. We have no idea.

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Speaker 1: But the point of nuclear semiotics is to figure out

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Speaker 1: how to come up with a um a message that

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Speaker 1: is understandable to everybody in any situation in the future.

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Speaker 1: And the current state of the art is let's figure

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Speaker 1: out how to speak as far as ten thousand years

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Speaker 1: into the future. Yeah, I mean, and that's like being generous.

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Speaker 1: It needs to go beyond that. It does, because the

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Speaker 1: whole point of nuclear semiotics, the whole porn of warning

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Speaker 1: the future, is this stuff, this nuclear waste that we're

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Speaker 1: putting into the ground now, is going to be dangerous

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Speaker 1: for tens and tens of thousands of years. Plutonium two

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Speaker 1: thirty nine has a half life of twenty four thousand years.

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Speaker 1: There's something called um Technetium ninety nine has a half

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Speaker 1: life of two hundred and eleven thousand years, So another

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Speaker 1: one is like one point seven million year half life.

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Speaker 1: This is the nuclear waste that we're creating now and

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Speaker 1: are putting in the ground. Yeah. And uh, Julia Layton,

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Speaker 1: who was one of our writers who does great work

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Speaker 1: for us, she made a lot of great points, which

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Speaker 1: is like the history of human evolution is two hundred

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Speaker 1: thousand years, and like we've only been like reading and

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Speaker 1: writing for how long about five thousand, less than six

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Speaker 1: thousand years. Yeah, So it's it sounds like like you said,

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Speaker 1: it sounds simple. And so many times I thought I

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Speaker 1: had I thought I had it cracked, only to think

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Speaker 1: like I was, like, why don't they just uh do

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Speaker 1: something purely visual and and stage a play of people

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Speaker 1: at that site digging in and then dying. And it's like,

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Speaker 1: what what do you do with it? Well, I'll just

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Speaker 1: put it on a DVD that just plays on a loop.

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Speaker 1: It's like, how are you gonna power that thing? You

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Speaker 1: know what happens when everybody's converted to blue ray? Yeah exactly?

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Speaker 1: Or you know, well, then solar put a solar panel up.

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Speaker 1: He's got the last forever. But what have it done?

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Speaker 1: What if there's like a forever nuclear storm or whatever.

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Speaker 1: But if the sun never shines again on Earth in

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Speaker 1: eight thousand years, that's could happen. That's the cool thing

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Speaker 1: about thinking into the deep future is all the things

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Speaker 1: that will go wrong. Yeah, it makes you realize like

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Speaker 1: how specific everything you think and know and understand really

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Speaker 1: is to your current time. Yeah, it's very cool. She

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Speaker 1: brings up the point about an apple, like when you

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Speaker 1: see the word apple, you don't see the word apple,

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Speaker 1: you see visualize the symbol of that is an apple.

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Speaker 1: So it's like it's almost like the words and very

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Speaker 1: much of the words will just not have meaning anymore

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Speaker 1: at some point. Man. Well, let's dig into this stuff.

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Speaker 1: You're ready, let's do it. So to start, we should

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Speaker 1: talk about where this all came from. It came from

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Speaker 1: a new type of nuclear storage solution, nuclear waste storage

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Speaker 1: solution called UM long term geological repositories, and it is

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Speaker 1: basically digging into the earth a couple of miles into

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Speaker 1: the earth, putting our nuclear waste there, again, waste that's

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Speaker 1: going to be harmful the health for tens of thousands,

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Speaker 1: hundreds of thousands of years, and sealing it up and

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Speaker 1: then covering over the site and then putting a warning

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Speaker 1: on there. And right now, the general consensus is that

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Speaker 1: salt beds are the best place to put that nuclear waste.

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Speaker 1: And there's actually some pretty good reasons why. Yeah, we

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Speaker 1: could do an episode on nuclear storage. I think I

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Speaker 1: really want to in and of itself. Yeah, I don't

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Speaker 1: know if that's a shorty or a long it's probably

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Speaker 1: a long. But just briefly, the reason salt beds are

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Speaker 1: preferable is because the fact that they're even there suggests

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Speaker 1: that there's no water. If they if there was water,

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Speaker 1: they would have been dissolved long ago. It's really relatively

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Speaker 1: easy to mine into them. And then what's awesome about

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Speaker 1: salt is that when you mine a shaft into a

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Speaker 1: salt bed and you put your deposit there, then you

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Speaker 1: pull back out, Um, the salt bed actually heals itself over,

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Speaker 1: like just a few decades, seals itself back up, right, Yes,

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Speaker 1: So you put a container that's been engineered to hold

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Speaker 1: the nuclear waste inside for ten thousand years. Yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: also in a container. You should point that out, right,

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Speaker 1: You're putting it into a borehole in the salt. The

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Speaker 1: salt is going to grow back around it and intubate,

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Speaker 1: perhaps permanently in this salt very strong to right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it is fairly strong. I mean, like if you're mining

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Speaker 1: using modern mining equipment, it's it's really easy to mine into.

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Speaker 1: But if you have like a pickaxe or something is

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Speaker 1: rock to salt. Rock is what it's called. Right. So

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of reasons why people have figured out

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Speaker 1: like this is not a bad idea to intomb nuclear waste.

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Speaker 1: But but here's the thing. We can't just intumbate and

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Speaker 1: walk away, Like we have a responsibility for those of

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Speaker 1: us generating this waste today to warn the future. And

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Speaker 1: it's on the future if they listen to us or not.

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Speaker 1: That's on them, right, But we have to make them

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Speaker 1: able to listen to us exactly, Like we have a

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Speaker 1: responsibility to do that because some people are proposed like, hey,

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Speaker 1: let's just bury and forget about it. The chances of

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Speaker 1: somebody actually finding it are pretty slim. Just bury and

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Speaker 1: forget about it, and that's probably the best, the best

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Speaker 1: way to go. And people said, it's not a bad idea,

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Speaker 1: but it's actually pretty bad ideas. He actually, I thought

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Speaker 1: that one wasn't the worst idea. It's not that was

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Speaker 1: the behavioral psychologists. He was like, And he wasn't like

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Speaker 1: just forget about it. He was like, maybe the smartest

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Speaker 1: thing to do is to leave it unmarked, right because,

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Speaker 1: as we'll see, attracting attention to something like exactly attracts attention.

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Speaker 1: It's interesting thought experiment, right. That was that psychologist. By

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Speaker 1: the way, is Dr Percy Tannenbaum Really no, no wonder

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Speaker 1: I like that of the East Hampton tenembombs. So we

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Speaker 1: should point out that there's a couple of a couple

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Speaker 1: of big times that these um that this has been commissioned, like, hey,

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Speaker 1: we need to think of something one for a site

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Speaker 1: that never happened, uh, And one for a site that

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Speaker 1: has happened, the one that has happened. It's only one

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Speaker 1: in the United States right now, the only one in

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Speaker 1: the world as far as they know now, it's number three.

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Speaker 1: It's the third largest. I didn't see what the other

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Speaker 1: two were. It must have been the first in the world. Then, yeah,

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Speaker 1: probably the first in the world. Yeah, which makes sense

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Speaker 1: because the other two are bigger. But this is in

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Speaker 1: New Mexico. It's called the Whip the Waist Isolation Pilot Plant,

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Speaker 1: and this one they are, uh, they're actively guarding for

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Speaker 1: They've committed the Department of Energy is committed to guarding

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Speaker 1: it with people for a hundred years. They have hired

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Speaker 1: Barney five year contract to look over this nuclear for

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Speaker 1: it least a hundred years. It's not like at the

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Speaker 1: end of the hundred years are gonna just like put

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Speaker 1: a padlock on it and walk away. I imagine they

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Speaker 1: will keep guarding it as long as they feel like

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Speaker 1: it needs guarding. I don't know if that's something I

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Speaker 1: don't know, man. I mean, we're talking about a government

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Speaker 1: run program here. At least a hundred years. We can

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Speaker 1: at least say that, yes, they agreed to that, so uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, the whole idea arose um before that, though,

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Speaker 1: what was the other one in Nevada. That's the Yucky

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Speaker 1: Mountain one. That was the first one, right, that's the

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Speaker 1: first one that that never happened. But that's when, you know,

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Speaker 1: in the seventies is when this idea sort of came about.

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Speaker 1: And I think it was two when it was sort

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Speaker 1: of codified as an official um I guess science or yeah,

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Speaker 1: it is. It's a branch. It's an interdisciplinary branch of science.

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Speaker 1: Nuclear semionics is, and it is. It's because the e

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Speaker 1: p A came up with a rule in two a law.

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Speaker 1: Really that's the eighty one. I got that wrong, by

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Speaker 1: the way, So it's eighty one that they came up

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Speaker 1: with the law. Uh well, it became a discipline in

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Speaker 1: nineteen eighty one with that Yucky Mountain Repository project. And

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Speaker 1: I think from that Yucky Mountain Repository project, because we

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Speaker 1: were starting to figure out how to deposit the stuff

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Speaker 1: for for a long time, the e p A came

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Speaker 1: up with a rule I think it was two that said,

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Speaker 1: if you're going to create these kind of repositories for

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Speaker 1: nuclear waste, you also have to figure out how to

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Speaker 1: come up with a permanent warning sign. And everybody was like,

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Speaker 1: that's no problem, of course, and then the EPs to

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Speaker 1: think about it. It's harder than you think. He said,

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Speaker 1: just slap that, uh, that nuclear waste logo that everyone knows.

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Speaker 1: And everyone was like, everyone doesn't know that. It's been

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Speaker 1: around forever. Everyone doesn't know that now, right, much less

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Speaker 1: in two hundred thousand years. Yeah, did you see the

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Speaker 1: how that was created? Yeah? It was. It was a

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Speaker 1: a group doodle. I don't know how that happens. I

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Speaker 1: think that means they can't ascribe it to one person.

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Speaker 1: They know there was like five people on one of

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Speaker 1: those giants like silver spoons, pencils. Yeah, this is an

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Speaker 1: nineteen six was it at Berkeley? And it was a

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Speaker 1: group doodle in the science class? And is that a

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Speaker 1: a band name group dood Wiggles or something? Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: think it's an album title for sure. So the Wiggles

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Speaker 1: group doodle. Absolutely, that's probably a real thing. That's our

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Speaker 1: gift to you, Wiggles. But I saw this was interesting

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Speaker 1: in the symbol came under consideration for wider use because

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Speaker 1: at first it was just a group doodle and then

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Speaker 1: the Brookhaven National Laboratory requested a standardized symbol of standardized

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Speaker 1: colors for their radiation safety program, and there was more

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Speaker 1: argument about the colors than the actual symbol um because

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Speaker 1: at first we're like, you can't use yellow because we

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Speaker 1: use yellow for a lot of stuff. Yeah, they wanted

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Speaker 1: to make sure that it didn't get overused so people

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Speaker 1: would just become kind of blind to because they saw

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Speaker 1: it so much. And they were like, have you heard

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Speaker 1: a striper get easy? Yellow and black? They're like, no,

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Speaker 1: I haven't heard him. And give us forty years. You

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Speaker 1: have heard of them, believe, and then in forty two

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Speaker 1: years no one will have heard of them. So I

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Speaker 1: think the original design was um, it was. I saw

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Speaker 1: them in concert. We won't even believe it was. Magenta

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Speaker 1: blades on a blue background was the original design, and

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Speaker 1: it was chosen because it was uncommon. But then an

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Speaker 1: oak Ridge, Tennessee at the oak Ridge National Laboratory, they

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Speaker 1: went with the yellow background in later on in and

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Speaker 1: I guess it's stuck. That's where the oak Ridge boys

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Speaker 1: were all scientists, that's right. So it was originally magenta

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Speaker 1: on blue, right, Yes, And the logo we're talking about

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Speaker 1: for those of you, I know, it's called the nuclear trefoil.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's a circle and then three cortial circles

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Speaker 1: around the blades. And from what I saw, one of

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Speaker 1: the original group doodlers explained it as um it's supposed

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Speaker 1: to be an atom with activity around it. Yeah, that's it,

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Speaker 1: which I never saw it before, but now that I've

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Speaker 1: read that, I can't unsee it. And that is really

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Speaker 1: what it looks like. It's a pretty great it will

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Speaker 1: doodle but it's like you said, that is not a

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Speaker 1: universally accepted symbol, which is a big problem. And it

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Speaker 1: doesn't it doesn't evoke like, oh, an atom. Of course,

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Speaker 1: I know what an atom looks like. I just saw

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Speaker 1: one go down the street a second ago, and this

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Speaker 1: looks like an atom. It's a symbolic representation of an atom,

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Speaker 1: which means that after people stop thinking about what atoms

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Speaker 1: look like, maybe a thousand years or five thousand years

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Speaker 1: down the road, if something happens, no one's going to

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Speaker 1: look at that and be like, oh, it's an atom.

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Speaker 1: Activity around an atom, that must mean there's radiation here.

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Speaker 1: Hence this is a dangerous sign that's not going to happen. Uh.

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Speaker 1: The other thing you would think, is just just put

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Speaker 1: up in a bunch of languages. Done. Ye, here's the thing.

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Speaker 1: Languages are disappearing. I'm gonna ask you, actually, what is

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Speaker 1: your best guess? A language dies out every blank nine

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Speaker 1: million seconds? Is that right? Did I nail it? Jerk?

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Speaker 1: I gotta get out of calculator. A language dies out

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Speaker 1: every fourteen days. I'm pretty sure that's nine millions. Isn't

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Speaker 1: that staggering? God? What if it was? Are you about

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Speaker 1: to do that? Yeah? You keep talking. So that's about

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Speaker 1: twenty five languages per year that die out. And um,

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Speaker 1: that's really sad, it is, and it is very sad.

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Speaker 1: And granted these aren't you know, major languages, but they're

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Speaker 1: important to the people who speak them. Um. But that's

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Speaker 1: just sort of to uh to to get across the

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Speaker 1: point that throwing it up in a bunch of languages

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Speaker 1: there's no guarantee and in fact, in all likelihood and

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Speaker 1: in fifty thousand years, there won't be English or German

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Speaker 1: or French, there may not even be humans. That's we

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Speaker 1: maybe what what's the calculation? Six days? I was a

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Speaker 1: little lot. Okay there there there, Maybe we may all

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Speaker 1: be like post biological humans. You know, uploaded our consciousness

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Speaker 1: onto like the Internet or something, in which point that

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Speaker 1: really won't matter to tell you the truth. Where the

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Speaker 1: nuclear waste is buried? But who knows? It could be

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Speaker 1: an intelligent species, It could be humans who don't know

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Speaker 1: how to read or write. The fact is is the

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Speaker 1: stuff that we take for granted changes a lot faster

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Speaker 1: than you think. UM, And even if it doesn't necessarily

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Speaker 1: die out, the changes that come along are pretty alarming.

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Speaker 1: I found a UM. I've been watching a lot of

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Speaker 1: Silicon Valley lately. I told you I my UM vocal

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Speaker 1: delivery sounds a lot like Jared's. It's a currently think

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Speaker 1: a lot, and I never really put those two together.

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Speaker 1: We keep an ear out for it. Now and see

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Speaker 1: what you think I mean? Tell me I'm wrong. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I would have to dissociate so much because I like

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Speaker 1: you and Jared is like such a pedantic bureaucrat him.

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Speaker 1: I mean, he's fun to watch, but I wouldn't say

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Speaker 1: that he's like the most likable character. Maybe he is,

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I would say pedantic bureaucrat is not

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Speaker 1: entirely off for me. Jared needs a girlfriend that's just okay,

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Speaker 1: So I do not, because I have a fine wife.

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Speaker 1: Uh So let me give you an example of how

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Speaker 1: English has changed. This is a quote from Sir Gawain

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Speaker 1: and the Green Knight. It was written in thirty fifty

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Speaker 1: years ago. This is in English. The steel of a

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Speaker 1: stiff staff, the stern hit gripped that was wounded with

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Speaker 1: iron into the wand's end, and i'll be graven with

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Speaker 1: green and gravy as works. And you should see it spelled.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I mean I was an English major. We

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Speaker 1: had to go through this stuff. It was a slog.

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Speaker 1: Do you have a guess at what I just said? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you said that? He uh, the Green Knights sat down

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Speaker 1: and watch some Silicon valley. That's right. It's that the

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Speaker 1: grim man gripped it by its strong handle, which was

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Speaker 1: wound with iron all the way to the end, engraven

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Speaker 1: and green with graceful designs. So like, that's English fifty

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Speaker 1: years ago. English is still around six hundred and fifty years.

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Speaker 1: We're talking about thousands, tens of thousands of years exactly.

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Speaker 1: So that's a problem. Languages evolved. Language is die. Symbols

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Speaker 1: don't quite make sense out of context, so there's a

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Speaker 1: lot of challenges that face the people who to try

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Speaker 1: to explain this stuff or figure out how to, um

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Speaker 1: explain it to future people. I think it's a better

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Speaker 1: way to put it, that's right. Uh, they have looked

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Speaker 1: in simio semioticians for people who who really want on

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Speaker 1: this stuff. Um. I think I'm an amateur simiotician after

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Speaker 1: reading this. But one thing that they're looking for, because

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Speaker 1: what you want is ideally is instant recognition and not

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Speaker 1: something I mean, yeah maybe if you have to figure

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Speaker 1: it out, but what you want is something that conveys

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Speaker 1: danger right when you look at it, Like just steer

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Speaker 1: clear of this place, not come closer and start poking around.

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Speaker 1: Just go away, that's right. So um. She makes a

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Speaker 1: great point though that, like it's a double edged sword,

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Speaker 1: like you're talking about earlier. If you you know, human beings,

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Speaker 1: if you show an extreme skier or a sign this

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Speaker 1: is danger, don't ski this way. He's gonna say, bra,

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Speaker 1: let's do it. Yeah, you know, give me some Hamma

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Speaker 1: side power drink. So there's a very very fine line

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Speaker 1: between warning people and enticing people. Yeah, even inadvertently exactly,

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Speaker 1: you know. I mean, there's um, she she points out

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Speaker 1: haunted houses because I'm like, yeah, not everybody's like a

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Speaker 1: red Bull extreme sports person, but people do like it.

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Speaker 1: Haunted houses too, So that abandoned like scary place is

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Speaker 1: so creepy. Let's go there for Halloween because maybe Halloween

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Speaker 1: survived but the English language didn't. Who knows. Um So yeah,

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Speaker 1: you you you really walk a fine line here between

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Speaker 1: warning people away and saying I dare you? Right? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: My whole jam is I think they need to uh

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Speaker 1: the what will survive if there are humans at all

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Speaker 1: is emotion, So I think they need to appeal to

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Speaker 1: human emotions like fear, ah, more than words and symbols. Okay, well,

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Speaker 1: let's take a break and we'll get back into this

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Speaker 1: all right, because this is fun. Yes, sorry, all right, Tuck.

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Speaker 1: So we've kind of talked about how things go away,

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Speaker 1: languages fall away, symbols don't make sense anyway, it is

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Speaker 1: it really is, right, um, so what what will last?

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Speaker 1: What have nuclear semioticians come up with? And should we explain? With?

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Speaker 1: Semiotics is in general, what is it? I don't even know, oh,

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Speaker 1: just kind of in shorthand. Semiotics is basically the study

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Speaker 1: of how and why UM signs have meanings, right, Like

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Speaker 1: you were saying, earlier. How the word apple doesn't evoke

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Speaker 1: thoughts of the word apple. It evokes thoughts of the round, shiny,

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Speaker 1: tasty fruit that grows on a tree. That's a sign

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Speaker 1: in semiotics, that's right, specifically a cursive sign because it

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Speaker 1: uses language. So what they've done, um and in many

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Speaker 1: cases is and this is a great idea for stuff

415
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Speaker 1: like this, is to have a competition. UM. They had

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Speaker 1: one at U c. L A. I think in two

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Speaker 1: thousand one calls it called the Desert Space Competition. UM.

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Speaker 1: And what one that year was a cactus, a yucca

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Speaker 1: cacti glowing blue. And then the idea was plant a

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Speaker 1: field of these regular green cacti, and then over the

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Speaker 1: place where you know the waist is the repository. And

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Speaker 1: then if you see the sign of a glowing blue one,

423
00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:47,640
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't think I didn't see the rest

424
00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:49,800
Speaker 1: of them, but I didn't think this one was that great.

425
00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:52,359
Speaker 1: I'm sorry to the person who came up with it

426
00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:55,119
Speaker 1: that I know. I think that something they should do

427
00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:58,960
Speaker 1: is go even further back to younger children, because sometimes

428
00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:00,840
Speaker 1: like go to like an l entry school and ask

429
00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:03,520
Speaker 1: kids or a high school, right, or you just take

430
00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:06,000
Speaker 1: each kid out and rub their face in the sand

431
00:24:06,040 --> 00:24:08,159
Speaker 1: and be like you see this, you stay out of here. No,

432
00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:11,240
Speaker 1: I mean, have the kids like throw out ideas because

433
00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:14,360
Speaker 1: I think, oh yeah, I think the like my idea.

434
00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:17,680
Speaker 1: I think a lot of times children can cut through

435
00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:20,840
Speaker 1: the to the simplicity of something much better than adults

436
00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:23,719
Speaker 1: can easily. So that's my idea. Throw it out as

437
00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:26,080
Speaker 1: a as a science fair project. Well, I think that's

438
00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:28,440
Speaker 1: one of the cool things about nuclear semionics is it's

439
00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:32,119
Speaker 1: so inviting to like, anybody can come up with a

440
00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:36,720
Speaker 1: great idea. It's just so confounding, but it's also so accessible. Yeah,

441
00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:39,480
Speaker 1: we'll get ideas. In fact, we want to hear from you.

442
00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:41,320
Speaker 1: If you think you have a cool idea, it's a

443
00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:43,600
Speaker 1: good idea. Like, I guarantee you we're gonna get some

444
00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:46,040
Speaker 1: good ones. We're not gonna pass them along or anything.

445
00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:49,919
Speaker 1: So rather than just like pooh pooing the glowing yucka one,

446
00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:53,479
Speaker 1: there's a here's the problem with the glowing yucka idea.

447
00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:59,639
Speaker 1: It requires explanation, right somebody, So part of the glowing

448
00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:02,880
Speaker 1: yuck is to say, these things have been genetically engineered

449
00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:06,040
Speaker 1: so that when there's radiation present, they glow so if

450
00:25:06,080 --> 00:25:08,880
Speaker 1: you see this yucka glowing, it means that there's radiation here.

451
00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:13,600
Speaker 1: Stay away. If you lose that that additional story that

452
00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:16,040
Speaker 1: has to go along with the glowing yucka, then you

453
00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:18,520
Speaker 1: just have glowing yucca. And I can't think of a

454
00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:20,760
Speaker 1: more attractive thing is going to draw people to a

455
00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:24,440
Speaker 1: site than the legendary glowing yucka that only glows and

456
00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:27,880
Speaker 1: this one spot on Earth. That's kind of the problem

457
00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:30,080
Speaker 1: with it, you know. I like this other idea from

458
00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:32,440
Speaker 1: that same year a little better that did not win.

459
00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:37,879
Speaker 1: Fields of Asphodel, which is a Eurasian lily. They said,

460
00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:41,400
Speaker 1: let's just cover the site with metal blades that screech

461
00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:44,120
Speaker 1: when the wind blows. It makes it horrible noise, right,

462
00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:48,440
Speaker 1: not bad. Here's the problem with that. Moving parts. Okay,

463
00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:51,439
Speaker 1: it's been pretty well established that if you're trying to

464
00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:55,479
Speaker 1: convey something to the people into the distant future, you

465
00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:59,000
Speaker 1: need to have something that's monolithic and made of one piece,

466
00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:03,000
Speaker 1: because if you have multiple parts, that's an opportunity for

467
00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:06,320
Speaker 1: weathering to occur through the place where the two parts meet,

468
00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:08,480
Speaker 1: or three parts or five parts. And if it's a

469
00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:12,320
Speaker 1: moving part, just kiss the movement goodbye. What about this.

470
00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:17,160
Speaker 1: I've had the thought earlier today about just a mountain

471
00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:21,520
Speaker 1: of razor wire. Okay, here's the problem with that. And

472
00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:23,760
Speaker 1: this is the same problem also with the What is

473
00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:26,439
Speaker 1: the problem the steel? The steel, stuff that move and everything.

474
00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:28,880
Speaker 1: You want to use you I know, but you want

475
00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:33,800
Speaker 1: to use stuff that has no value whatsoever, not just financially,

476
00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:36,600
Speaker 1: but usefulness because someone will say, I can harvest that

477
00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:38,960
Speaker 1: razor wire, Yeah, I can go use that to keep

478
00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:41,320
Speaker 1: the cows in in my house next door. Yeah. But

479
00:26:41,359 --> 00:26:44,080
Speaker 1: if you have so much of it over time, over

480
00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:47,760
Speaker 1: ten thousand years, people like take and take, and I

481
00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:50,240
Speaker 1: mean that's why the pyramids are stripped of, like they're

482
00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:53,159
Speaker 1: more attractive outer. They used to have like a white

483
00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:58,520
Speaker 1: I think limestone shell encasement. It's gone because the locals

484
00:26:58,520 --> 00:26:59,840
Speaker 1: were like, oh, I can use that to build a

485
00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:04,880
Speaker 1: pizza hut. That's exactly That's what people will do if

486
00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:08,560
Speaker 1: you play something of any kind of usefulness Like that

487
00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:12,800
Speaker 1: is the beauty of every idea is wrong as a whole.

488
00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:16,680
Speaker 1: It's so great, it's pretty great. I love it so

489
00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:19,600
Speaker 1: the um One of the most often uh sided bodies

490
00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:22,720
Speaker 1: of work is from eighty three, and this was a

491
00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:26,680
Speaker 1: call for ideas from the German Journal of Semiotics that

492
00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:28,760
Speaker 1: basically said the same thing. It's like, you know, what

493
00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:31,600
Speaker 1: are your ideas? This one got a little goofy, to

494
00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:35,480
Speaker 1: say the least. Someone suggested an artificial moon as a

495
00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:39,320
Speaker 1: storage vessel. There's just a huge flaw on that one.

496
00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:41,880
Speaker 1: If you ask me, I mean, you don't even get that. Well,

497
00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:44,040
Speaker 1: it was like, how do you make sure that the

498
00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:49,199
Speaker 1: information about this site stays protected? Put it into an

499
00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:52,000
Speaker 1: artificial moon in orbit around Earth? But it's like, how

500
00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:53,880
Speaker 1: do you get to the artificial I didn't get that's

501
00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:56,240
Speaker 1: what they meant that that, Yeah, that doesn't make any sense.

502
00:27:56,320 --> 00:27:58,080
Speaker 1: That's what I think I guess they were. I mean

503
00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:00,640
Speaker 1: it said, uh, well, will they be aiming it down

504
00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:03,879
Speaker 1: to a TV that won't play? That's a different one. Yeah,

505
00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:06,720
Speaker 1: And then I just don't understand this at all. I

506
00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:10,159
Speaker 1: don't understand the Radioactive Cats either, even though that's a

507
00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:13,040
Speaker 1: decent band name. So there there. That was a big

508
00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:17,280
Speaker 1: part of the invisible episode Nuclear Semiotics. They talked about

509
00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:20,119
Speaker 1: the ray Cats um and I think they actually hired

510
00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:23,320
Speaker 1: a musician to create a song, because just like with

511
00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:26,560
Speaker 1: the Glowing Yucka, you have to explain what's going on

512
00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:28,800
Speaker 1: when the cats glow, you need to stay away. So

513
00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:30,640
Speaker 1: they had somebody come up with a ray cat song

514
00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:33,200
Speaker 1: I believe for the episode. Was it Hoodie and the Blowfish?

515
00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:36,040
Speaker 1: Yes it was. That was a good guess. Now this

516
00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:38,160
Speaker 1: one I thought was had a little I thought it

517
00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:42,080
Speaker 1: was interesting at least this SIMI edition named Thomas C.

518
00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:47,400
Speaker 1: Bac He said this what has survived more than anything

519
00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:51,240
Speaker 1: else religion, religious texts that date back, you know, a

520
00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:53,440
Speaker 1: couple of thousand years in the Catholic Church. Not a

521
00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:56,600
Speaker 1: bad start. Yeah, the ideas that you hear at Catholic

522
00:28:56,640 --> 00:28:59,760
Speaker 1: Mass today are a couple of thousand years old and something.

523
00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:02,640
Speaker 1: And if you go back to the original text, which

524
00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:05,960
Speaker 1: we can still read fortunately, you can say, yep, this

525
00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:08,680
Speaker 1: is what they're talking about. Like those ideas have survived

526
00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:12,640
Speaker 1: that long because of the practices they use. So interesting idea.

527
00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:15,400
Speaker 1: But it gets a little goofy because he thought, why

528
00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:20,560
Speaker 1: don't we almost create a fake religion around this thing?

529
00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:25,280
Speaker 1: Um a fearful myth that you can generate appointing an

530
00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:30,000
Speaker 1: atomic priesthood two tell people and tell them to tell

531
00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:34,320
Speaker 1: future generations. But I mean, I guess the idea is

532
00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:37,360
Speaker 1: that it's all false and it's just a big made

533
00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:40,160
Speaker 1: up story. Yeah, this the atomic priesthood would know the

534
00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:43,560
Speaker 1: truth and they would indoctrinate people, but out in society

535
00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:47,360
Speaker 1: around them, it would be a closely guarded secret because

536
00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:50,840
Speaker 1: everybody else thinks that whatever, this fake myth about why

537
00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:53,880
Speaker 1: you have to stay away from this haunted, evil area

538
00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:57,640
Speaker 1: is true, when really the atomic priests are the ones

539
00:29:57,680 --> 00:30:01,840
Speaker 1: who know, uh no, actually there's there's radioactive stuff. They're here.

540
00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:04,200
Speaker 1: They just came up with this three thousand years ago

541
00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:07,920
Speaker 1: to scare everybody away. But initially a decent idea as

542
00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:10,680
Speaker 1: far as trying to make it or incorporate like what

543
00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:14,280
Speaker 1: religion does. But it just definitely strange. It is to

544
00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:17,520
Speaker 1: me though, it is at its base despicable. It's a

545
00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:24,160
Speaker 1: despicable idea because it is purposefully introducing fearful, false superstition

546
00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:28,640
Speaker 1: into the future, Like we're gonna purposefully introduce fearful false

547
00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:32,240
Speaker 1: superstition into the future just to scare people off from radioactivity,

548
00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:35,520
Speaker 1: Like what kind of sweeping side effects? What kind of

549
00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:38,680
Speaker 1: wars might start over this? Many people will die to

550
00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:41,360
Speaker 1: defend this fake thing that they don't realize is fake.

551
00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:44,440
Speaker 1: Because Thomas Cebia came up with this idea to keep

552
00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:48,200
Speaker 1: people away from a single site in New Mexico. That's crazy.

553
00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:51,160
Speaker 1: It didn't fare too well either among his colleagues, and

554
00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:54,120
Speaker 1: rightfully so, because again it's a despicable idea. So he

555
00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:57,280
Speaker 1: was on the Human Interference task Force. We mentioned them

556
00:30:57,440 --> 00:31:00,960
Speaker 1: the Nevada site. That was what was uh what was

557
00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:05,080
Speaker 1: launched for that yucka mountain side back in from eighty three.

558
00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:10,400
Speaker 1: So whatever cbo original idea was, he had like some

559
00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:15,120
Speaker 1: other closely related ideas that were great. Though, Like he's

560
00:31:15,120 --> 00:31:17,480
Speaker 1: not like it's a total nut job happened. He's like,

561
00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:20,400
Speaker 1: I think it was just a misfire for in an

562
00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:23,240
Speaker 1: otherwise illustrious career. I think I don't know that much

563
00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:27,720
Speaker 1: about him. But um, one of his other ideas was, Okay,

564
00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:30,640
Speaker 1: well let's take the the atomic priesthood away, let's take

565
00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:34,080
Speaker 1: the religion and all that stuff away, and let's just

566
00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:37,120
Speaker 1: give them like the facts, but let's figure out a

567
00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:39,400
Speaker 1: way to make sure that those facts get passed down.

568
00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:42,720
Speaker 1: And what he came up with was called the meta message,

569
00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:46,680
Speaker 1: where it's a message that says this is this place

570
00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:49,240
Speaker 1: has nuclear radiation, it can kill you. You need to

571
00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:52,600
Speaker 1: stay away. From it, and we invite you to take

572
00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:56,160
Speaker 1: this message and translated into whatever languages you guys have

573
00:31:56,240 --> 00:31:59,080
Speaker 1: on earth at the time, assuming you can read this right,

574
00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:02,400
Speaker 1: But if you do that often enough, there will always

575
00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:06,240
Speaker 1: be somebody who can translate it. And then that way

576
00:32:06,280 --> 00:32:09,200
Speaker 1: you form a bridge between now and as far into

577
00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:12,040
Speaker 1: the future as people are around to read and add

578
00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:15,600
Speaker 1: their own interpretation or their own translation of it. But

579
00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:17,800
Speaker 1: then you want to leave the original so that if

580
00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:21,120
Speaker 1: there's ever like a disagreement about what some what word meant,

581
00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:25,520
Speaker 1: hopefully somebody can go back language language language and connect

582
00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:29,480
Speaker 1: them so that they can see the original version. Yeah,

583
00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:33,040
Speaker 1: but like what if a society develops an isolation that

584
00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:37,480
Speaker 1: knows none of these languages, you're just totally toast. Yeah,

585
00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:40,640
Speaker 1: that's when the symbols come in. Right. So what they

586
00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:43,600
Speaker 1: settled on as a panel though from one to eighty

587
00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:47,720
Speaker 1: three was what's called long term communication was going to

588
00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:49,360
Speaker 1: be the most effective thing, like kind of what you

589
00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:51,960
Speaker 1: were just talking about. And they said, a system that

590
00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:55,400
Speaker 1: combines physical markers and archives that cover the two major

591
00:32:55,440 --> 00:33:00,440
Speaker 1: forms of this long term communicate direct and successive. Direct

592
00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:06,640
Speaker 1: utilizes markers, and uh, successive is humans like you were

593
00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:08,800
Speaker 1: talking about I guess with this meta message, I guess

594
00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:10,960
Speaker 1: you could write it down, but it's still humans carrying

595
00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:13,600
Speaker 1: a message through time. Well, it's more like a direct one,

596
00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:16,760
Speaker 1: is that, Like you can write an inscription on a

597
00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:20,560
Speaker 1: monument and that monument is going to deliver that message

598
00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:23,400
Speaker 1: directly to people ten thousand years from now. Yeah, I

599
00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:26,280
Speaker 1: mean it's a physical thing, right, whereas with successive it's

600
00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:29,400
Speaker 1: kind of passed along like a game of telephone exactly.

601
00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:31,560
Speaker 1: And you know how that goes, right, It can get

602
00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:34,160
Speaker 1: a little hinky, that's right, but it's always fun at

603
00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:38,040
Speaker 1: a somber party. Sure. So they came up with multiple ones,

604
00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:41,240
Speaker 1: like you were saying, um that they settled on a

605
00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:46,320
Speaker 1: monument that had um massive stone structures. Remember, you want monoliths,

606
00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:50,560
Speaker 1: they're engraved with warnings in all currently known languages. It's

607
00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:53,400
Speaker 1: a lot of languages. You want a buried vault that

608
00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:56,440
Speaker 1: has all the info you need about radioactivity, about the site,

609
00:33:56,520 --> 00:33:59,600
Speaker 1: all that stuff. You want a bunch of barriers around

610
00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:03,080
Speaker 1: the site, not necessarily to definitely keep people out, but

611
00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:05,560
Speaker 1: enough to basically say, hey, hey, we're trying to impede

612
00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:07,680
Speaker 1: progress here. Yeah. I mean, to me, that's one of

613
00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:10,280
Speaker 1: the most obvious ones. If like you see a huge

614
00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:13,600
Speaker 1: wall again, it might entice you, but it for sure

615
00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:15,919
Speaker 1: indicates to any culture that you're like, you're not meant

616
00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:21,120
Speaker 1: to come beyond this. And then, um, the last one

617
00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:24,560
Speaker 1: is a network of archives basically the same information you

618
00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:27,880
Speaker 1: would have in that buried vault, but elsewhere scattered around

619
00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:29,920
Speaker 1: the world. So if something happens to the buried vault,

620
00:34:29,960 --> 00:34:32,120
Speaker 1: somebody can come across the archives somewhere and be like,

621
00:34:32,120 --> 00:34:33,759
Speaker 1: oh wait, wait, we want to stay out of there,

622
00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:36,200
Speaker 1: right And along with that, they said, while we're at it,

623
00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:38,920
Speaker 1: can we can we at least like all agree around

624
00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:41,680
Speaker 1: the world on a nuclear warning symbol, if it's the

625
00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:46,680
Speaker 1: trefoil or whatever, let's just all codify that as the thing,

626
00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:48,960
Speaker 1: which is not the case right now. Now there's was

627
00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:52,080
Speaker 1: a triangle with an arrow pointing down, and then in

628
00:34:52,160 --> 00:34:55,279
Speaker 1: the head of the arrow was the Biohezard symbol, which

629
00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:57,160
Speaker 1: is not great because you want something that's going to

630
00:34:57,200 --> 00:35:00,160
Speaker 1: be so simple that even as people affuse me, I

631
00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:02,120
Speaker 1: need to see it. I guess yeah. It's even when

632
00:35:02,160 --> 00:35:04,920
Speaker 1: you see it you're like wait what, um, But you

633
00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:07,200
Speaker 1: want something simple enough so that as people kind of

634
00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:09,880
Speaker 1: create a shorthand version of it. It's still retains its

635
00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:13,319
Speaker 1: its meaning rightly, all right. So that stuff was the

636
00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:16,920
Speaker 1: Yucca project in the early eighties. They decided not to

637
00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:21,280
Speaker 1: do that. They just packed it up, put it away,

638
00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:23,680
Speaker 1: and then it all came back again with this new

639
00:35:23,719 --> 00:35:28,240
Speaker 1: Mexico plant when the Department of Energy said once again, hey,

640
00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:30,320
Speaker 1: we need to think of a sign and a symbol

641
00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:33,359
Speaker 1: or or whatever you can, you know, come up with,

642
00:35:33,719 --> 00:35:35,640
Speaker 1: and we need the best in the brightest thinking of this.

643
00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:39,880
Speaker 1: So call up Carl Sagan, Get me Sagan, give me Sagan,

644
00:35:40,120 --> 00:35:43,040
Speaker 1: give me Percy Tannenbaum, stat uh. And this guy named

645
00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:46,680
Speaker 1: John Lomberg who's a science writer and space illustrator, and

646
00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:49,719
Speaker 1: he had worked in semiotics before for NASA on their

647
00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:52,440
Speaker 1: mission to Mars. Sagan was an ill health so he

648
00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:56,240
Speaker 1: declined to come, but he sent a message from the present.

649
00:35:56,320 --> 00:36:02,200
Speaker 1: I guess that said skull and crossbones done universal. Everyone

650
00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:04,480
Speaker 1: knows it. He gave a really good example. He said,

651
00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:08,760
Speaker 1: it has um. It's marked the lintels of cannibal dwellings,

652
00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:11,680
Speaker 1: the flags of pirates, the insignia of s S divisions,

653
00:36:11,680 --> 00:36:14,680
Speaker 1: and motorcycle gangs. Like. He makes a pretty good point.

654
00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:17,000
Speaker 1: A lot of people out there see a skull and

655
00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:23,840
Speaker 1: crossbones and no, it means like danger problems. Yes, you know,

656
00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:27,120
Speaker 1: you'll be a skull. And so the working group for

657
00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:31,520
Speaker 1: the whip Um project they said, now that doesn't work.

658
00:36:31,640 --> 00:36:34,400
Speaker 1: It's a young Ian archetype. It doesn't really exist outside

659
00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:37,400
Speaker 1: of the West. To me, I'm like, no, Segan was

660
00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:40,200
Speaker 1: definitely onto something. I think so. I mean, tell me,

661
00:36:40,239 --> 00:36:43,640
Speaker 1: if you go to China and hold up a sign

662
00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:47,319
Speaker 1: with a skull and crossbones, I would think so, wouldn't they.

663
00:36:47,360 --> 00:36:49,680
Speaker 1: I mean, that's a dire warning, isn't it. I think

664
00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:51,799
Speaker 1: their point is is that the skull used to be

665
00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:55,719
Speaker 1: like a Memento movie where it meant like rebirth and death,

666
00:36:55,760 --> 00:36:57,440
Speaker 1: so they could be like, oh, wonderful a skull and

667
00:36:57,480 --> 00:37:04,120
Speaker 1: cross bus. But to me, that is the one enduring

668
00:37:04,200 --> 00:37:06,959
Speaker 1: symbol that's always going to be around as long as

669
00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:10,359
Speaker 1: there are humans, because what happens when you die and

670
00:37:10,480 --> 00:37:14,359
Speaker 1: rot what's left your skull. Every human knows that even

671
00:37:14,480 --> 00:37:16,719
Speaker 1: humans in the future are going to know that. Even

672
00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:21,040
Speaker 1: ones that are in like a post collapse tribes were

673
00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:23,359
Speaker 1: running around like and and have lost all of the

674
00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:25,600
Speaker 1: languages that are around today, they're gonna know what a

675
00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:28,000
Speaker 1: skull looks like or what a skull means, or at

676
00:37:28,080 --> 00:37:29,560
Speaker 1: least one of them is going to be like wait,

677
00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:33,080
Speaker 1: I don't think this is saying that the rainbow is coming. Um,

678
00:37:33,120 --> 00:37:35,759
Speaker 1: I think it means like death or danger. All right,

679
00:37:35,800 --> 00:37:39,200
Speaker 1: let's take another break. Yeah, we'll come back and talk

680
00:37:39,239 --> 00:37:42,600
Speaker 1: about the the approach that the whip panel took and

681
00:37:42,640 --> 00:38:10,440
Speaker 1: what they came up with right after this. Sorry, you know,

682
00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:14,200
Speaker 1: I gotta defend Sagan. It's my boy. I love that guy.

683
00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:19,400
Speaker 1: Someone should ask U Neil de grass Tyson. Why not.

684
00:38:19,480 --> 00:38:22,000
Speaker 1: I bet he's got a good idea or two. I'll

685
00:38:22,040 --> 00:38:25,680
Speaker 1: bet they have asked although Atlanta for a show. Oh yeah,

686
00:38:25,680 --> 00:38:30,080
Speaker 1: where Fox? I think a cop Energy Center. Oh yeah, yeah,

687
00:38:30,160 --> 00:38:32,360
Speaker 1: well I think that's even more seats than the phone. No,

688
00:38:32,480 --> 00:38:36,120
Speaker 1: it's less. Oh sorry, I think it's like three thousand people,

689
00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:40,640
Speaker 1: which is nothing to you know, put up a stink about.

690
00:38:40,680 --> 00:38:42,759
Speaker 1: That's a lot of folks. We have not hit that.

691
00:38:43,040 --> 00:38:45,840
Speaker 1: No we're not, No, we haven't. Did you hear the

692
00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:48,680
Speaker 1: Star talk I was on? Oh no, it was it good?

693
00:38:48,760 --> 00:38:50,680
Speaker 1: It was pretty good. Yeah. If I do say so myself,

694
00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:54,960
Speaker 1: if it was supposed to be like rapid fast responses.

695
00:38:55,880 --> 00:38:58,800
Speaker 1: We got to like four questions in an hour because

696
00:38:58,800 --> 00:39:01,839
Speaker 1: you're like, rapid fast response is not my specialty. Deal,

697
00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:07,120
Speaker 1: let me just do a distracting here, a more deliberate alright. So,

698
00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:10,440
Speaker 1: speaking of deliberate, the WHIP panel was very deliberate and methodical.

699
00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:14,520
Speaker 1: They divided into teams and um approached it from the

700
00:39:14,719 --> 00:39:17,040
Speaker 1: two things we were talking about, direct and successive forms

701
00:39:17,080 --> 00:39:22,240
Speaker 1: of communication. Debated a lot, deliberated a lot the recommendations.

702
00:39:22,520 --> 00:39:26,000
Speaker 1: They had two proposals, and they did overlap a little bit. Uh.

703
00:39:26,040 --> 00:39:28,239
Speaker 1: What I thought was pretty smart is they both had

704
00:39:28,239 --> 00:39:32,440
Speaker 1: a multi leveled approach from the surface down that got

705
00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:35,520
Speaker 1: more specific and intense as you went down. Yeah, the

706
00:39:35,560 --> 00:39:39,160
Speaker 1: first one was basically like you, ding Dong, this is dangerous,

707
00:39:39,160 --> 00:39:42,040
Speaker 1: go away exactly. That's like level one, and then level

708
00:39:42,080 --> 00:39:45,000
Speaker 1: two is like, okay, ding Dong, and you're kind of smart.

709
00:39:45,040 --> 00:39:47,759
Speaker 1: Friend explained to ding Dong that the reason this is

710
00:39:47,800 --> 00:39:50,520
Speaker 1: dangerous because there's something buried here and it's gonna hurt you.

711
00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:52,520
Speaker 1: All right, we should we should. We don't talk about

712
00:39:52,560 --> 00:39:55,680
Speaker 1: the real things. Oh sure, I thought I was. Uh

713
00:39:55,719 --> 00:40:00,319
Speaker 1: so Group A this was their's. They studied the face

714
00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:03,960
Speaker 1: of the site with what they called menacing earthworks, so

715
00:40:04,080 --> 00:40:07,560
Speaker 1: a field of spikes and then a big massive disk

716
00:40:08,160 --> 00:40:11,160
Speaker 1: painted to look like a black hole. I didn't quite

717
00:40:11,160 --> 00:40:13,480
Speaker 1: get that part. That's so dumb. I get the spikes.

718
00:40:14,239 --> 00:40:17,320
Speaker 1: I I think it's the yeah, of course, But the

719
00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:19,480
Speaker 1: black hole. I think it's supposed to just mean like

720
00:40:19,520 --> 00:40:22,120
Speaker 1: a void or chaos. I don't know. I'm not sure

721
00:40:22,360 --> 00:40:24,120
Speaker 1: I could see how you would think that that was

722
00:40:24,200 --> 00:40:26,759
Speaker 1: kind of universal, like nobody wants to fall into a

723
00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:28,960
Speaker 1: hole or something, and maybe it evokes that kind of

724
00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:32,320
Speaker 1: like stay away, all right. Then they have large markers

725
00:40:32,600 --> 00:40:34,759
Speaker 1: all around the site, which, like you said, are the

726
00:40:34,800 --> 00:40:38,399
Speaker 1: really basic messages and the warnings, including and I thought

727
00:40:38,440 --> 00:40:43,200
Speaker 1: this is so interesting, uh faces that invoke Edvard Munch's

728
00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:48,080
Speaker 1: The Scream, the ones I saw a word at the scream. Yeah,

729
00:40:48,200 --> 00:40:49,759
Speaker 1: like it was a line drawing of the guy from

730
00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:53,520
Speaker 1: the people. Yeah, like in great agony and pain. That

731
00:40:53,680 --> 00:40:56,480
Speaker 1: to me not bad. It isn't bad. I don't know

732
00:40:56,560 --> 00:41:01,120
Speaker 1: there was that more universally understood than a skull and crossbones.

733
00:41:01,120 --> 00:41:03,320
Speaker 1: I don't know, or or or if art survives or

734
00:41:03,360 --> 00:41:05,680
Speaker 1: people like, Oh, I wonder if that paintings down there, well,

735
00:41:05,719 --> 00:41:08,200
Speaker 1: I think what they're saying is and simuticians kind of

736
00:41:08,200 --> 00:41:12,200
Speaker 1: feel this way. Is that Edvard Monk so perfectly nailed

737
00:41:12,239 --> 00:41:14,920
Speaker 1: the scream that even without the art, like if you

738
00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:17,279
Speaker 1: see that, you understand that that person you're seeing is

739
00:41:17,320 --> 00:41:20,719
Speaker 1: in agony. Did I say Munch? No, I think you

740
00:41:20,719 --> 00:41:23,400
Speaker 1: said monk. Did I say much? You said Monk. I

741
00:41:23,520 --> 00:41:25,600
Speaker 1: might have said much. No, you said I think he

742
00:41:25,680 --> 00:41:28,799
Speaker 1: said monk. Is it Munch? I think it's probably Monk.

743
00:41:29,200 --> 00:41:31,600
Speaker 1: There's no way his name as much. I'm almost positive

744
00:41:31,640 --> 00:41:35,720
Speaker 1: you said monk. Jerry, can you rewind for a second. Much?

745
00:41:36,360 --> 00:41:38,799
Speaker 1: Oh you did say much. I would have scorned you

746
00:41:38,800 --> 00:41:42,839
Speaker 1: said monk. So Group A below the surface, Uh, this

747
00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:45,400
Speaker 1: is when they actually start talking about nuclear waste to

748
00:41:45,440 --> 00:41:48,280
Speaker 1: what it does to you, the details about the structure

749
00:41:48,280 --> 00:41:52,400
Speaker 1: and all that stuff, right where where they teach you

750
00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:55,680
Speaker 1: a little bit about radio activity. So group B Uh,

751
00:41:55,719 --> 00:41:59,799
Speaker 1: this was they went super informative, and really what they

752
00:41:59,840 --> 00:42:01,920
Speaker 1: were light on was that people had a little bit

753
00:42:02,000 --> 00:42:04,319
Speaker 1: of knowledge in the future about stuff like this. But

754
00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:07,160
Speaker 1: they also trusted that the people didn't have to just

755
00:42:07,239 --> 00:42:10,200
Speaker 1: be spooked or scared or something like that. That that

756
00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:12,960
Speaker 1: it's like, here is the facts and information. That's why

757
00:42:13,040 --> 00:42:15,520
Speaker 1: you want to stay away from that. Yeah, they're big

758
00:42:15,520 --> 00:42:20,600
Speaker 1: above groundwork was these big earthen walls in the shape

759
00:42:20,600 --> 00:42:23,480
Speaker 1: of the nuclear trafoil. Not bad. I imagine you'd have

760
00:42:23,520 --> 00:42:25,000
Speaker 1: to see it from above to even know though what

761
00:42:25,080 --> 00:42:27,239
Speaker 1: it was. But that's that's part of the One of

762
00:42:27,239 --> 00:42:30,640
Speaker 1: the requirements was that you you wanted to be um

763
00:42:30,680 --> 00:42:34,640
Speaker 1: easily visible, not just with human cognition, but like remote

764
00:42:34,640 --> 00:42:38,879
Speaker 1: sensing to so like magnetic surveys. They they they said,

765
00:42:38,920 --> 00:42:41,440
Speaker 1: we should put some magnets in here, right, not just

766
00:42:41,520 --> 00:42:43,960
Speaker 1: from when you walk up to it, right, So, and

767
00:42:43,960 --> 00:42:45,120
Speaker 1: you also have to be able to see it from

768
00:42:45,160 --> 00:42:48,960
Speaker 1: your flying saucer exactly. Uh. And then inside the walls

769
00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:52,400
Speaker 1: they have at various steps have these big markers and

770
00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:56,200
Speaker 1: here's where these like symbols and pictographs, uh, all kinds

771
00:42:56,200 --> 00:43:02,480
Speaker 1: of languages, writing in different languages and in more human faces,

772
00:43:02,880 --> 00:43:07,480
Speaker 1: increasingly contorted in agony. As you go down, it looks

773
00:43:07,520 --> 00:43:11,640
Speaker 1: to me like the guy's getting drunker and drunker. Yeah, yeah,

774
00:43:12,719 --> 00:43:15,279
Speaker 1: that's what it looks like. Well, maybe that means there's

775
00:43:14,920 --> 00:43:17,799
Speaker 1: a happening bar exactly. That's how I would take it

776
00:43:17,840 --> 00:43:20,799
Speaker 1: if I were a future human post collapse. Gotta go

777
00:43:20,960 --> 00:43:24,279
Speaker 1: gotta go down here. There were also pictograms you're just

778
00:43:24,320 --> 00:43:26,759
Speaker 1: like digging through the sand to get to They're also

779
00:43:26,840 --> 00:43:31,040
Speaker 1: pictograms that showed like under the ground, like real easy

780
00:43:31,160 --> 00:43:36,000
Speaker 1: to understand drawings of the radioactive waste, the water groundwater

781
00:43:36,080 --> 00:43:39,920
Speaker 1: flowing through it, taking the radioactive waste up to the plants,

782
00:43:39,960 --> 00:43:42,080
Speaker 1: which are then eaten by the humans in the picture,

783
00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:46,319
Speaker 1: one of whom dies, which makes sense. You don't need

784
00:43:46,400 --> 00:43:48,960
Speaker 1: to understand anything about radioactivity. You don't need to be

785
00:43:49,000 --> 00:43:52,120
Speaker 1: able to read anything. It's a really like it makes sense,

786
00:43:52,360 --> 00:43:55,040
Speaker 1: especially if some people are sitting there thinking about it's

787
00:43:55,080 --> 00:43:57,560
Speaker 1: the final image is skulling crossbones or or a pile

788
00:43:57,560 --> 00:43:59,200
Speaker 1: of bones. You know. It was like a person, three

789
00:43:59,239 --> 00:44:01,160
Speaker 1: people standing in one of them. The last one was

790
00:44:01,239 --> 00:44:03,000
Speaker 1: like dead and I think he might even have excess

791
00:44:03,000 --> 00:44:04,600
Speaker 1: for eyes. Well I was about to say, though, I mean,

792
00:44:04,640 --> 00:44:07,239
Speaker 1: if you think about twenty years from now, maybe maybe

793
00:44:07,280 --> 00:44:10,799
Speaker 1: they're like, oh, this induces a nice nap. Maybe, Like

794
00:44:11,600 --> 00:44:14,359
Speaker 1: but to your point though, like the bones is where

795
00:44:14,400 --> 00:44:17,239
Speaker 1: you need to end up, right, Yeah, maybe somebody would

796
00:44:17,239 --> 00:44:18,960
Speaker 1: be like, oh this these veggies here give you a

797
00:44:19,000 --> 00:44:20,840
Speaker 1: great buzz if you grow them on this ground. That

798
00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:23,120
Speaker 1: excess for eyes right. Yeah, the bones do make a

799
00:44:23,120 --> 00:44:26,040
Speaker 1: lot more sense. I think Sagan was right. That's that

800
00:44:26,200 --> 00:44:28,440
Speaker 1: should be a T shirt. Stuff you should know t shirts.

801
00:44:28,440 --> 00:44:31,680
Speaker 1: Sagan was right, don't even need to have any context.

802
00:44:32,040 --> 00:44:34,160
Speaker 1: We're gonna be an email in a few days from

803
00:44:34,200 --> 00:44:36,279
Speaker 1: the guy from the estate of Karl Sagan saying do

804
00:44:36,360 --> 00:44:38,880
Speaker 1: not make that T shirt. So what did they go with?

805
00:44:38,920 --> 00:44:45,319
Speaker 1: In the end, though, they went with um a earthen work,

806
00:44:45,719 --> 00:44:49,880
Speaker 1: earthen berm basically to provide an obstacle um and to

807
00:44:50,280 --> 00:44:55,800
Speaker 1: block easy access some granite slabs, monoliths that have warnings

808
00:44:55,840 --> 00:44:59,960
Speaker 1: written in seven languages, yeah, Navajo and then the six

809
00:45:00,120 --> 00:45:03,960
Speaker 1: languages of the u n So Arabic, Chinese, English, Spanish, French,

810
00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:07,840
Speaker 1: and Russian. Um, which makes a lot of sense. But

811
00:45:08,040 --> 00:45:11,520
Speaker 1: then they took Thomas Cibiak up on his idea. They

812
00:45:11,600 --> 00:45:15,440
Speaker 1: kind of built on the earlier right exactly um, and

813
00:45:15,480 --> 00:45:18,600
Speaker 1: they left blank spaces or they play in their plan.

814
00:45:18,719 --> 00:45:22,200
Speaker 1: They leave blank spaces on these slabs for future generations

815
00:45:22,239 --> 00:45:26,719
Speaker 1: to add their own translations of the inscriptions. It's a

816
00:45:26,760 --> 00:45:31,080
Speaker 1: great idea. And the faces of humans and pain in

817
00:45:31,160 --> 00:45:34,400
Speaker 1: English that did survive in the end. So that was

818
00:45:34,440 --> 00:45:38,120
Speaker 1: the final report on this whip panel. It's a pretty

819
00:45:38,120 --> 00:45:41,680
Speaker 1: good idea, makes a lot of sense because not only so,

820
00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:44,240
Speaker 1: there are two two groups that they're trying to say

821
00:45:44,280 --> 00:45:48,279
Speaker 1: stay away, not not really like urban explorers or thrill

822
00:45:48,320 --> 00:45:51,960
Speaker 1: seekers or whatever they would have, they would have virtually

823
00:45:52,040 --> 00:45:55,000
Speaker 1: no chance of getting down to the actual radio at

824
00:45:55,000 --> 00:45:57,840
Speaker 1: the material. The people they were worried about, or technology

825
00:45:57,920 --> 00:46:02,920
Speaker 1: technological advanced civilizations that we're drilling for resources like accident

826
00:46:03,040 --> 00:46:06,959
Speaker 1: like God help this this um this this waste disposal site.

827
00:46:07,000 --> 00:46:10,480
Speaker 1: If salt becomes incredibly important in the future, and then

828
00:46:11,440 --> 00:46:17,160
Speaker 1: um less advanced civilizations that could accidentally um change the

829
00:46:17,160 --> 00:46:20,279
Speaker 1: flow of groundwater to go through the salt bed through

830
00:46:20,360 --> 00:46:23,799
Speaker 1: massive like irrigation projects. It covers all of it. Yeah,

831
00:46:23,800 --> 00:46:26,840
Speaker 1: my whole thing is just make it inaccessible. Why is

832
00:46:26,840 --> 00:46:29,879
Speaker 1: it in New Mexico? Why is it out you know, well,

833
00:46:29,920 --> 00:46:33,520
Speaker 1: that's I mean, that's pretty inaccessible. It's not as access

834
00:46:33,600 --> 00:46:37,319
Speaker 1: inaccessible as you know Siberia. No, some one of the

835
00:46:37,400 --> 00:46:41,719
Speaker 1: recommendations for nuclear waste disposal shooting it into space. Just

836
00:46:41,800 --> 00:46:43,960
Speaker 1: send it out in the outer space and forget about it.

837
00:46:44,200 --> 00:46:46,520
Speaker 1: And if you believe in the family paradox that it

838
00:46:46,600 --> 00:46:50,879
Speaker 1: says we're the only intelligent life in the universe. Man

839
00:46:50,960 --> 00:46:54,600
Speaker 1: more power to That's actually not that bad of an idea.

840
00:46:54,800 --> 00:46:56,840
Speaker 1: It's a horrific idea, but it's actually kind of a

841
00:46:56,840 --> 00:46:58,799
Speaker 1: good idea. Thing. Yeah, but then I wonder about the

842
00:46:58,880 --> 00:47:01,960
Speaker 1: danger and the risk and evolved. I mean, we've seen

843
00:47:02,040 --> 00:47:04,279
Speaker 1: rockets blow up and space shuttles blow up. That would

844
00:47:04,280 --> 00:47:06,160
Speaker 1: be bad. Like what if the thing that they're shooting

845
00:47:06,160 --> 00:47:08,480
Speaker 1: it out there malfunctioned or something that'd be really bad

846
00:47:08,560 --> 00:47:10,600
Speaker 1: would be really bad. That's a great points, Like all

847
00:47:10,640 --> 00:47:13,800
Speaker 1: of our nuclear waste has just been released, oh into

848
00:47:13,840 --> 00:47:18,480
Speaker 1: the atmosphere. Yeah, that's a great, great point. So here's

849
00:47:18,520 --> 00:47:21,200
Speaker 1: the thing, is all of this just wasted effort because

850
00:47:21,239 --> 00:47:23,560
Speaker 1: I was getting so into the stuff. And then the

851
00:47:23,640 --> 00:47:27,000
Speaker 1: end of this article was a real like sad trombone

852
00:47:27,160 --> 00:47:30,279
Speaker 1: because it seems like it seems like nobody really even

853
00:47:30,320 --> 00:47:33,000
Speaker 1: cares the people that matter. Well, the first the first

854
00:47:33,000 --> 00:47:36,319
Speaker 1: group like their whole thing will will probably never be

855
00:47:36,400 --> 00:47:39,759
Speaker 1: implemented because yuck, a mountain project got shut down. But

856
00:47:39,880 --> 00:47:43,719
Speaker 1: the Whip group may actually have their their plan come

857
00:47:43,760 --> 00:47:46,920
Speaker 1: to fruition because it is an ep A rule that

858
00:47:46,960 --> 00:47:49,319
Speaker 1: you have to create this kind of marker and they've

859
00:47:49,320 --> 00:47:52,320
Speaker 1: got until about forty until they estimate the place is

860
00:47:52,320 --> 00:47:54,920
Speaker 1: going to shut down. So it's entirely possible that in

861
00:47:56,120 --> 00:47:59,239
Speaker 1: or sometime in the hundred years after, when the d

862
00:47:59,320 --> 00:48:01,400
Speaker 1: O E stops protecting the site or the d O

863
00:48:01,480 --> 00:48:05,319
Speaker 1: d UM, they may implement this earthen works in the

864
00:48:05,400 --> 00:48:08,359
Speaker 1: sixteen granite slabs, and we we may live to see

865
00:48:08,400 --> 00:48:11,280
Speaker 1: something like this. Well, outside of the US, it seems

866
00:48:11,320 --> 00:48:14,640
Speaker 1: like no one is super concerned. Sweden in two thousand

867
00:48:14,640 --> 00:48:18,080
Speaker 1: eleven had an application to build a repository in force

868
00:48:18,160 --> 00:48:23,319
Speaker 1: Mark and in their in their literal application, they basically said,

869
00:48:24,040 --> 00:48:26,279
Speaker 1: you know what, we're gonna worry about that later in

870
00:48:26,360 --> 00:48:28,960
Speaker 1: seventy years, when this thing's finished. They said, see this,

871
00:48:29,080 --> 00:48:31,640
Speaker 1: can we just kicked the seventy years down. The ref

872
00:48:32,080 --> 00:48:35,960
Speaker 1: and the Swedish National Archives they consulted on their application,

873
00:48:36,760 --> 00:48:39,080
Speaker 1: they said, that's really insufficient. It said, it gives the

874
00:48:39,120 --> 00:48:43,720
Speaker 1: impression that one intends to postpone important documentation efforts until

875
00:48:43,760 --> 00:48:46,920
Speaker 1: the closure of the repository in seventy years. And it's like,

876
00:48:46,960 --> 00:48:50,920
Speaker 1: it doesn't give the impression. It literally said that, So, uh,

877
00:48:51,000 --> 00:48:55,200
Speaker 1: I think they're being ultrapolite. Yeah, I think, well Sweden, right, good,

878
00:48:55,200 --> 00:48:58,600
Speaker 1: people in the US, though, don't tell Asa Brocky that

879
00:48:58,600 --> 00:49:02,160
Speaker 1: that don't even know what that means. That's a singer, right, yeah,

880
00:49:02,160 --> 00:49:04,600
Speaker 1: he's he's a rapper. He's in prison in Sweden right now.

881
00:49:04,719 --> 00:49:06,759
Speaker 1: And I did not know that. Oh man, what would

882
00:49:06,760 --> 00:49:09,280
Speaker 1: he do. He got into a fight with some Swedish

883
00:49:09,320 --> 00:49:11,080
Speaker 1: kids and it may or may not have been their fault.

884
00:49:11,120 --> 00:49:13,880
Speaker 1: It looks on video like they definitely provoked it. But

885
00:49:13,920 --> 00:49:16,319
Speaker 1: the King of Sweden is like, sorry, rule of law

886
00:49:16,400 --> 00:49:21,920
Speaker 1: applies to everybody, including super famous Americans. Donald Trump called

887
00:49:21,960 --> 00:49:23,920
Speaker 1: him to try to get the thing resolved at the

888
00:49:23,960 --> 00:49:27,520
Speaker 1: behest of Kanye West God, and apparently I just made

889
00:49:27,520 --> 00:49:29,480
Speaker 1: everything worse. And now the King of Sweden is like,

890
00:49:29,520 --> 00:49:33,640
Speaker 1: there's no chance he's getting released early. Wow, man, where

891
00:49:33,680 --> 00:49:37,200
Speaker 1: have I been? This is reality. What I just said

892
00:49:37,360 --> 00:49:41,360
Speaker 1: is actual fact that actually happened here in two thousand nineteen. Everybody.

893
00:49:41,760 --> 00:49:46,440
Speaker 1: Humans of the far future? Can you believe it? Humans

894
00:49:46,480 --> 00:49:49,080
Speaker 1: of the near John Lomberg, that guy we were talking

895
00:49:49,080 --> 00:49:52,680
Speaker 1: about earlier, who was on that original panel, he told

896
00:49:52,800 --> 00:49:56,319
Speaker 1: Vice just a couple of years ago. Um, a lot

897
00:49:56,360 --> 00:49:58,440
Speaker 1: of us had been around the block a few times before,

898
00:49:58,480 --> 00:50:00,640
Speaker 1: because you know, he was back then doing the same

899
00:50:00,680 --> 00:50:02,520
Speaker 1: thing and knew this is going to be a report

900
00:50:02,560 --> 00:50:05,080
Speaker 1: the government only did and this is the US and

901
00:50:05,120 --> 00:50:08,040
Speaker 1: we're putting more thought towards this than anyone. Yeah, which

902
00:50:08,160 --> 00:50:10,959
Speaker 1: is really surprising. He said they only did this because

903
00:50:10,960 --> 00:50:13,120
Speaker 1: they needed to show compliance. They didn't really care what

904
00:50:13,200 --> 00:50:17,799
Speaker 1: we said. And then uh, and from the Human Interference

905
00:50:17,840 --> 00:50:21,080
Speaker 1: Task Force during the competition, they basically said, the most

906
00:50:21,080 --> 00:50:23,800
Speaker 1: effective sign will be the dead bodies of those foolish

907
00:50:23,880 --> 00:50:29,440
Speaker 1: enough to ignore whatever sign. So basically like who cares,

908
00:50:29,840 --> 00:50:31,680
Speaker 1: someone will do someone will get in there and they

909
00:50:31,800 --> 00:50:34,000
Speaker 1: all die and then that'll be the big morning, right,

910
00:50:34,040 --> 00:50:37,120
Speaker 1: which makes sense if if humans are in communication around

911
00:50:37,160 --> 00:50:39,279
Speaker 1: the globe and you've got the same morning around. But

912
00:50:39,320 --> 00:50:43,520
Speaker 1: if they're not, then it's catastrophe, catastrophe, catastrophe. But at

913
00:50:43,600 --> 00:50:45,880
Speaker 1: least we fulfilled our part of the bargain where we

914
00:50:45,920 --> 00:50:50,319
Speaker 1: really tried to warn everybody agreed, you got anything else? Yeah,

915
00:50:50,880 --> 00:50:53,880
Speaker 1: if you will indulge me, I would like to plug

916
00:50:54,200 --> 00:50:57,000
Speaker 1: the end of the world with Josh Clark. What the

917
00:50:57,120 --> 00:50:59,600
Speaker 1: end of the world with Josh Clark? If if like

918
00:50:59,719 --> 00:51:02,160
Speaker 1: thinking about things in like far deep time in the

919
00:51:02,200 --> 00:51:04,560
Speaker 1: future of humanity and all that stuff kind of floated

920
00:51:04,600 --> 00:51:07,640
Speaker 1: your boat. I would recommend my little podcast series The

921
00:51:07,719 --> 00:51:09,480
Speaker 1: End of the World of Josh Clark for sure. This

922
00:51:09,840 --> 00:51:12,719
Speaker 1: is right up your alley. Thank you, Chuck. Uh. And

923
00:51:12,760 --> 00:51:14,880
Speaker 1: since Chuck said write up your alley, it's time for

924
00:51:14,920 --> 00:51:20,080
Speaker 1: a listener mail. Hey guys, we are strangers, but we aren't.

925
00:51:20,560 --> 00:51:22,320
Speaker 1: You've been with me during the most challenging times of

926
00:51:22,360 --> 00:51:24,239
Speaker 1: my life. I've listened to your show for about seven years.

927
00:51:24,640 --> 00:51:28,279
Speaker 1: I'm an English teacher. My students retired and making fun

928
00:51:28,320 --> 00:51:30,520
Speaker 1: of me because I always start lessons with so I

929
00:51:30,560 --> 00:51:33,160
Speaker 1: was listening to stuff you should know. I went through

930
00:51:33,200 --> 00:51:35,320
Speaker 1: a huge life change recently. I was in a relationship

931
00:51:35,360 --> 00:51:38,040
Speaker 1: for five years, engage for four of them, uh, and

932
00:51:38,080 --> 00:51:40,960
Speaker 1: moved from Phoenix to Charlotte after ending that relationship, which

933
00:51:41,000 --> 00:51:43,879
Speaker 1: was incredibly difficult to do. During the drive, I listen

934
00:51:43,880 --> 00:51:46,719
Speaker 1: to you guys for the entire thirty four hours. Wow,

935
00:51:47,640 --> 00:51:52,080
Speaker 1: can you imagine? No, I honestly can't know music, just

936
00:51:52,200 --> 00:51:54,600
Speaker 1: you guys. My heart was so broken. I didn't think

937
00:51:55,239 --> 00:51:57,200
Speaker 1: I would ever be able to recover from that trauma,

938
00:51:57,239 --> 00:51:59,759
Speaker 1: but the trauma of listening to us for thirty four

939
00:52:00,880 --> 00:52:02,520
Speaker 1: But you didn't know that you were able to comfort

940
00:52:02,520 --> 00:52:05,040
Speaker 1: me and call me down. My brother, who helped me move,

941
00:52:05,600 --> 00:52:07,720
Speaker 1: asked me what I needed to listen to during the drive.

942
00:52:07,760 --> 00:52:09,600
Speaker 1: I told him I wanted to listen to stuff you

943
00:52:09,600 --> 00:52:11,520
Speaker 1: should Know. He had never heard of it. But now

944
00:52:11,680 --> 00:52:15,000
Speaker 1: my brother Nick is also a fan, whether he likes

945
00:52:15,000 --> 00:52:17,600
Speaker 1: it or not, and we almost always started our conversations

946
00:52:17,600 --> 00:52:19,040
Speaker 1: now with did you listen to the last stuff you

947
00:52:19,080 --> 00:52:21,279
Speaker 1: should Know? So I just want to give you guys

948
00:52:21,360 --> 00:52:24,480
Speaker 1: kudos kudos for being incredible. Please give a shout out

949
00:52:24,480 --> 00:52:26,879
Speaker 1: to Justin, a fan that learned about you guys from

950
00:52:26,920 --> 00:52:29,719
Speaker 1: me in case uh he didn't hear it the first time.

951
00:52:29,840 --> 00:52:34,160
Speaker 1: Hello Justin Potter. Wow, thanks for giving me common times

952
00:52:34,200 --> 00:52:36,600
Speaker 1: of adversity. I know we are strangers, but we are

953
00:52:36,600 --> 00:52:39,200
Speaker 1: not actually because you have been with me during struggles

954
00:52:39,200 --> 00:52:41,600
Speaker 1: of my life. Credit you for getting me through the

955
00:52:41,600 --> 00:52:44,279
Speaker 1: hardest times and I will be a lifelong fan of

956
00:52:44,320 --> 00:52:47,480
Speaker 1: you both. That is from Kate. Thanks Kate. I'm really

957
00:52:47,480 --> 00:52:50,440
Speaker 1: glad we got to play some small part in getting

958
00:52:50,440 --> 00:52:53,239
Speaker 1: you back on the road to Yeah, to happiness. Yeah.

959
00:52:53,239 --> 00:52:55,200
Speaker 1: I hope everything's going great for you. Yeah for real.

960
00:52:55,880 --> 00:52:57,279
Speaker 1: If you want to get in touch of this like

961
00:52:57,400 --> 00:52:59,560
Speaker 1: Kate did, just to say hi or to say thanks

962
00:52:59,640 --> 00:53:01,919
Speaker 1: or to say you guys really screwed up. It's cool.

963
00:53:02,239 --> 00:53:04,120
Speaker 1: You can go onto stuff you Should Know dot com

964
00:53:04,160 --> 00:53:06,760
Speaker 1: and check out our social links, and you can also

965
00:53:06,840 --> 00:53:09,880
Speaker 1: send us a good old fashioned email to stuff podcast

966
00:53:10,040 --> 00:53:15,600
Speaker 1: at iHeart radio dot com. Stuff you Should Know is

967
00:53:15,600 --> 00:53:18,200
Speaker 1: a production of iHeart Radios How Stuff Works. For more

968
00:53:18,239 --> 00:53:20,719
Speaker 1: podcasts for my heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app,

969
00:53:20,800 --> 00:53:23,400
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

970
00:53:26,600 --> 00:53:26,640
Speaker 1: H