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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on

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Speaker 1: iHeart Radio and welcome back to Coast to Coast Thomas

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Speaker 1: Costigan with us as we're talking about his work hacking

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Speaker 1: planet Earth. There are a lot of dedicated climatologist Thomas

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Speaker 1: who are out there who really want to do a

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Speaker 1: great job for this planet, aren't there. Yeah, And that's

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Speaker 1: the encouraging thing is there's just a lot of hope.

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Speaker 1: And I encountered that from scientist, climatologist, entrepreneurs, people across

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Speaker 1: the spectrum who've done, you know, just a lot of

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Speaker 1: great work and have developed a lot of great technologies

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Speaker 1: that can do, you know, just mind blowing things that

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Speaker 1: you wouldn't even think of. I'll give you an example.

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Speaker 1: I went to interview a gentleman named Klaus Lochner. He's

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Speaker 1: at Arizona State University, and Klaus has developed an artificial

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Speaker 1: truth that can capture carbon out of the atmosphere at

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Speaker 1: a million times the rate, a million times a million

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Speaker 1: times the rate. So with a significant forest, he can

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Speaker 1: zero out all of the emissions. As we put out there,

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Speaker 1: you just have to do the math. So one hundred

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Speaker 1: million trees, for example, how much will that take down

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Speaker 1: out of the atmosphere. We put about forty giga tons

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Speaker 1: of carbon monoxide in the atmosphere annually, and you know,

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Speaker 1: you can sort of do the math on that and

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Speaker 1: it's not impossible. So that's a phenomenal thing. And you know,

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Speaker 1: he's developing these these these trees and these technologies and

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Speaker 1: I stopped them and I said, well, what made you

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Speaker 1: think of this? Because I always like to know that

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Speaker 1: lightbulb moment, you know, like, how did you wrap your

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Speaker 1: mind around doing this? And Klaus started off in robotics,

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Speaker 1: self learning machines, self learning systems because he was fascinated

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Speaker 1: with the idea that if machines could self replicate, what

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Speaker 1: would that mean for humans? And it turns out that

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Speaker 1: the one thing that robots cannot do as of yet

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Speaker 1: is create energy and fuel sources. To self replicate, we

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Speaker 1: still need a human touch there. And when he got

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Speaker 1: into the energy side of that equation of self replicating machines,

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Speaker 1: he started to look at, obviously the byproduct of that,

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Speaker 1: which is pollution. And I like to use the word

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Speaker 1: pollution as opposed to carbon emissions, and you know, all

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Speaker 1: that stuff is just you know, so vague. Well, and

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Speaker 1: I think Thomas, a lot of people have confused climate

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Speaker 1: change with pollution as well, and you know, nobody wants pollution.

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Speaker 1: Nobody wants pollution, but I think they've got that confused

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Speaker 1: and then they throw in man made climate change when

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Speaker 1: it's I think, really pollution. Yeah, I mean, I think

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Speaker 1: you're absolutely right. There's been a huge change in shift

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Speaker 1: in vocabulary that's been inexact with science that to date

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Speaker 1: has been inexact. We know, as you know, things are

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Speaker 1: happening and then it's real and all of that. But

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Speaker 1: I think there's the messaging has been off and a

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Speaker 1: lot of the you know, the science that's out there,

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Speaker 1: a lot of it is great, but some of it

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Speaker 1: hasn't been so great, and we need to have a

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Speaker 1: more unified look at what's going on in terms of

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Speaker 1: why the climate is shifting. It's a very real set,

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Speaker 1: you know, pollution versus carbon emissions versus other greenhouse gases,

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Speaker 1: and you know, we still don't know we have we

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Speaker 1: still don't know what the composition is of those greenhouse

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Speaker 1: gases that leads to climate change. Well, what's true? Are

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Speaker 1: you familiar with the controversy about chem trails, whether we're

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Speaker 1: being sprayed from planes and it's not jet fuel or

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Speaker 1: jet vapor, but actual chem trails are being polluting us

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Speaker 1: all over the place. Have you been into that at all? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And a lot of people have you know, conflated that

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Speaker 1: with some of the geo engineering discussion. And it goes

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Speaker 1: back to the vocabulary, you know, definitions that we were

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Speaker 1: just talking about, and you know, the chem trail um

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Speaker 1: you know issues are totally different than what we're talking

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Speaker 1: about here, and you have you know, some of those sightings,

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Speaker 1: some of the thou discussions happening, you know a lot.

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Speaker 1: And what that leads to though hasn't been defined you know,

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Speaker 1: from from any type of you know, scientific standpoint that

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Speaker 1: has been you know, peer reviewed, etc. So you know

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Speaker 1: that's out there in terms of a way that people

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Speaker 1: are trying to manipulate the climate, but there really hasn't

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Speaker 1: been anything to it that I've seen. You had mentioned

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Speaker 1: that's the Chinese or employee nearly forty thousand people for

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Speaker 1: their what are modification program? What are they trying to do?

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Speaker 1: Is are they trying to you know, help the climate

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Speaker 1: and help their own country? Are they trying to do

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Speaker 1: it for potential warfare? What are they up to well,

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Speaker 1: let's take the Olympics for example, they are the skies

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Speaker 1: and the Olympics. Um, they have Beijingish shot you know,

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Speaker 1: rockets into the air in order to clear the skies

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Speaker 1: to you know, create a better world impression. I can't

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Speaker 1: speak to the military side of it, but certainly to

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Speaker 1: benefit you know, their country, because they have a really arid,

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Speaker 1: arid you know, deserts there when what's such a vast population,

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Speaker 1: they need as much land to grow food as they

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Speaker 1: possibly can, and that that requires water. And if you

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Speaker 1: you know, right now, they're building the longest water tunnel

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Speaker 1: in the world. And if you can't get it from

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Speaker 1: the earth, where else you're going to get water from?

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Speaker 1: In order to have agriculture, you've got to get it

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Speaker 1: from the sky. So looking at all spots of interesting

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Speaker 1: you know, rainmaking devices up in the Himalaya in order

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Speaker 1: to you know, produce you know, precipitation down below in

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Speaker 1: the deserts. And um, I get into that in the book,

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Speaker 1: actors getting somewhat in some detail. And so you know,

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Speaker 1: the the idea that they they're weaponizing the weather. You know,

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Speaker 1: who knows we've done that in the past, you know,

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Speaker 1: with our our different types of approaches during the Vietnam War.

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Speaker 1: You know, the Brits did that as well, and so

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Speaker 1: you know, those didn't go so great for us when

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Speaker 1: you look at some of the ramifications that came off

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Speaker 1: of that when we had you know, projects Popeye, I

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Speaker 1: don't know if he's ever heard of that, when we

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Speaker 1: try to extend the monsoon season in Vietnam in order

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Speaker 1: to just flood and create mud slides for the enemy. Interesting.

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Speaker 1: And I remember during the Olympics somebody had asked the

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Speaker 1: Chinese if they were concerned about the weather, and they said, no,

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Speaker 1: we can handle that, just like that. Yeah. Yeah, So

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Speaker 1: it goes back to you know, you'd asked about chem

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Speaker 1: trails and some of these other possibilities. You know, the

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Speaker 1: science on those things we just don't know about. They're

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Speaker 1: very inexact. But things like lasers that can reconstruct molecules. Interesting,

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Speaker 1: that's high technology. That's high technology, and that's been done

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Speaker 1: models for me, and you can see that. I've seen that.

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Speaker 1: I've been in abasement in Geneva and had a cloud

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Speaker 1: appear before my eyes that was created artificially. That fast,

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Speaker 1: that's fast. Jeez. Now, what about the dangers what's the

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Speaker 1: downside here, Thomas A playing around, as you say, hacking

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Speaker 1: Planet Earth, creating this frankin planet. I mean, I've always

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Speaker 1: believed when you play around with Mother Nature, things could

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Speaker 1: back fire. What's the downside for climate engineering? Geo engineering?

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Speaker 1: Absolutely if we do if we do it recklessly, and

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Speaker 1: there are you know, we have obviously there's models that

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Speaker 1: people use now and there's a whole virtual world out there,

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Speaker 1: and we can do algorithms and use artificial intelligence to

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Speaker 1: map these things out and scenarios you know, millions and

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Speaker 1: millions of ways within a second. But if you just

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Speaker 1: did it recklessly, you could dry out the Amazon, which

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Speaker 1: is the Earth's lungs, and create wildfires throughout South America

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Speaker 1: and into the you know, the Indonesian countries in Southeast Asia.

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Speaker 1: You could flood other places, and that happened in where

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Speaker 1: they artificially seated the clouds and something um that they

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Speaker 1: had a things operation Unos and that they did in

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Speaker 1: World War two, and they flooded one of the cities

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Speaker 1: and killed people. So you can actually create floods or

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Speaker 1: droughts or create extreme storms. Can you can you create

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Speaker 1: respiratory situations? I mean, we look at this coronavirus situation.

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Speaker 1: How do we know I'm again, I'm convinced it was

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Speaker 1: made in a laboratory, But how do we know it

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Speaker 1: wasn't sprayed on people? Well, that falls outside of you know,

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Speaker 1: my purview in the climate, so that that's more of

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Speaker 1: a you know, a disase type of thing from what

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Speaker 1: I understand. Sure, um, you know, I couldn't get into

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Speaker 1: any of the public health considerations there, but I could

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Speaker 1: tell you that, you know, some of these technologies and

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Speaker 1: they you know, they talk about some of the ramisfications

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Speaker 1: here that will as death Stratispheric aerosol injection for example,

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Speaker 1: making the clouds brighter could set off ramifications in areas

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Speaker 1: that would create droughts or extreme storms and people would

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Speaker 1: die from it. And that's a Harvard University project. When

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Speaker 1: you were searching the book, Tom, when you were putting

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Speaker 1: this together, what would you say was your most dramatic

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Speaker 1: or memorable moments we're searching it. Well, I would say

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Speaker 1: the most memorable moment, and there are two. One is

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Speaker 1: just are inspiring, and that was just going out to

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Speaker 1: Death Valley and if you've ever been there and traveled

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Speaker 1: through that area into the flats, it's just it's breathtaking, breathtaking, incredible,

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Speaker 1: and you realize, at least I did, it was very

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Speaker 1: humbling how small we are as human beings compared to

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Speaker 1: everything around ound you, and just how vulnerable you are

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Speaker 1: to Mother Earth. But the other other extreme on that

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Speaker 1: side is I went up to Arctic Norway where they

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Speaker 1: are artificially placing stansions for glaciers to prevent the melting,

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Speaker 1: and that area there too, that was a very kind

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Speaker 1: of harrowing experience because you you're in you know, not

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Speaker 1: the most calm of situations, but again just are inspiring

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Speaker 1: in terms of beauty and the technology that these scientists

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Speaker 1: are putt into work, and you know, risking their own

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Speaker 1: lives in certain certain circumstances, you know, living in these

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Speaker 1: subglacial tunnels, you know, many many many meters below the

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Speaker 1: ice for you know, months at a time in order

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Speaker 1: to examine the core and then put these stansions in

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Speaker 1: place so they will low the melt. You know, that

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Speaker 1: type of thing you look at and go, wow, that's

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Speaker 1: that's kind of phenomenal what's going on there? Um And

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Speaker 1: then intellectually, you know, I would say the laser modification

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Speaker 1: of weather is really one of the most interesting, frightening

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Speaker 1: and you know, full of possibilities and technologies that we

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Speaker 1: had up there. I had not heard of the lasers

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Speaker 1: until you told us tonight. Yeah. Yeah, And you know

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Speaker 1: the gentleman I was with Jean Pierre Wolf, you know,

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Speaker 1: well known con scientists over there, and he created artificially

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Speaker 1: created lightning, you know. And he did that here in

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Speaker 1: the United States, went up to the top of Mount

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Speaker 1: Baldi and it worked up the laser into into a

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Speaker 1: cloud and created lightning. And as you probably well know,

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Speaker 1: lightning is a very powerful force. It's more power than

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Speaker 1: all the atomic bombs on Oh my god. If you

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Speaker 1: can harness lightning, you really got something there, you go.

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Speaker 1: Of course, a lot of people get zapped by lightning too,

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Speaker 1: and that's the other thing. Every commercial aircraft consider lightning.

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Speaker 1: You know, that's a good point. So if you can

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Speaker 1: redirect it, then you have something that's you know, could

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Speaker 1: be beneficial. And then in the book, I always look

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Speaker 1: at the other side of the equation. Okay, here's the

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Speaker 1: positive side, here's the altruistic side, here's what we want

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Speaker 1: to do as good people to you know, have a

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Speaker 1: better society. And then I look at the other side

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Speaker 1: and say, but what if what if this falls into

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Speaker 1: the wrong hands, what if this has that tag along

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Speaker 1: type of effect on say teleconnections where you know those

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Speaker 1: we can we can map out from an al nino

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Speaker 1: or laina and you can see where just a warm

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Speaker 1: patch of water off the Pacific from South America and

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Speaker 1: the Pacific Ocean can cause you know, all sorts of ramification,

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, or or or all these fires. I mean,

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Speaker 1: how do we know some of these fires aren't caused

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Speaker 1: by weather modification that you know, just burn out the land.

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Speaker 1: A lot of people have been looking at cloud seating

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Speaker 1: that's been been done, or some of the other operations

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Speaker 1: where people are looking to create precipitation, but it may

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Speaker 1: have an opposite effect. That's dangerous stuff. That's at the

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Speaker 1: local level of George. Now look at it from a

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Speaker 1: country level. Let's say you're in the Middle East, and

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Speaker 1: let's say you want it to where where it's you know,

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Speaker 1: dry obviously on the other side of the mountains, and

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Speaker 1: it's weather closer to the sea. What if you shifted

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Speaker 1: that over and in where you're people that you are

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Speaker 1: not predisposed to liking are in the desert and flooded

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Speaker 1: that and kept it a little dryer closer to that's

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Speaker 1: Those are some of the downsides of this stuff. Who

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Speaker 1: gets the benefit of the technology as another one, well,

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Speaker 1: you know, you know Los Angeles, Las Vegas, once the

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Speaker 1: Vegas starts getting going again, depends on water from the

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Speaker 1: Colorado River. And you know, if you wanted to wipe

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Speaker 1: out a group of societies, you would make a drought

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Speaker 1: so that river would get so small it would just

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Speaker 1: evaporate and disappear. Can they do that? Do they have

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Speaker 1: that kind of technology? Would geo engineering? Well, you could

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Speaker 1: do that. You could you could actually redirect the rivers,

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Speaker 1: and you know they've tried that. You know, the the

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Speaker 1: there's been a reports out there that the US military

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Speaker 1: has had on the on the books for some time now,

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Speaker 1: reportedly that during a high drought situation in the United States,

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Speaker 1: they would be able to redirect the rivers south because

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Speaker 1: Canada has an awful lot of fresh water. So there

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Speaker 1: has been all sorts of scenarios that you know, have

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Speaker 1: been played out that way. The Colorado River is drying up.

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Speaker 1: There's even been plans to artificially remove water via aqueducts

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Speaker 1: from the Great Lakes to Nevada. Interesting, gosh, that's a

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Speaker 1: long way. It's a long way. So you know, you

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Speaker 1: have the the you know, the the Great Plains, aquifers

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Speaker 1: drying up. What does that mean to farmers? What does

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Speaker 1: that mean to agriculture? What does that mean to our

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Speaker 1: food supply? Listen to more Coast to Coast AM every

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Speaker 1: weeknight at one am Eastern and go to Coast to

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Speaker 1: Coast am dot com for more