1 00:00:01,040 --> 00:00:03,320 Speaker 1: So what's the deal with doula's everybody? 2 00:00:03,400 --> 00:00:07,080 Speaker 2: That's my question to you on this wonderful Saturday morning. 3 00:00:08,480 --> 00:00:11,200 Speaker 2: This one goes back to December twelfth, twenty seventeen. Doula's 4 00:00:11,200 --> 00:00:15,920 Speaker 2: do great work. They're wonderful people, and they bring babies 5 00:00:15,960 --> 00:00:18,640 Speaker 2: into the world. So I hope you enjoy the deal 6 00:00:18,880 --> 00:00:22,680 Speaker 2: with doula's. 7 00:00:24,040 --> 00:00:30,320 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio. 8 00:00:34,159 --> 00:00:36,640 Speaker 3: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, and 9 00:00:36,640 --> 00:00:39,400 Speaker 3: there's Charles w Chuck Bryant, and there's Jerry over there, 10 00:00:39,479 --> 00:00:46,200 Speaker 3: and this is Stuff you Should Know, the podcast Childbirth Edition. Yeah, 11 00:00:46,240 --> 00:00:49,800 Speaker 3: we are trapsing into more territory. 12 00:00:50,440 --> 00:00:51,320 Speaker 1: What does that mean? 13 00:00:51,520 --> 00:00:51,879 Speaker 4: I don't know. 14 00:00:51,960 --> 00:00:54,720 Speaker 3: I mean we've done two on you know, feeding babies, 15 00:00:55,520 --> 00:00:59,920 Speaker 3: done female puberty. Yeah, this will get into childbirth, will 16 00:01:00,120 --> 00:01:05,000 Speaker 3: little bit. So yeah, we're not afraid. I don't care. Yeah, 17 00:01:05,280 --> 00:01:06,559 Speaker 3: I guess is what I'm trying to say. 18 00:01:06,720 --> 00:01:08,760 Speaker 1: You can be a male doula. 19 00:01:08,880 --> 00:01:09,200 Speaker 4: You can. 20 00:01:09,360 --> 00:01:12,959 Speaker 3: Although this is the only article I ran across that, 21 00:01:13,080 --> 00:01:15,160 Speaker 3: and did you find anything about that anywhere else? 22 00:01:15,520 --> 00:01:20,320 Speaker 1: I mean, it happens. It's just super rare. It happens. 23 00:01:20,480 --> 00:01:22,960 Speaker 2: Because I mean, we'll go ahead and spoil it. Generally, 24 00:01:25,560 --> 00:01:28,480 Speaker 2: doulas are well, let's just get into this. 25 00:01:29,280 --> 00:01:32,000 Speaker 1: Generally, dula's are women who have already had a baby. 26 00:01:32,319 --> 00:01:35,039 Speaker 2: Yes, not even just women, but women who have had 27 00:01:35,040 --> 00:01:37,560 Speaker 2: a baby so they can really know how to help 28 00:01:37,600 --> 00:01:38,720 Speaker 2: another lady have a baby. 29 00:01:38,880 --> 00:01:39,080 Speaker 4: Yeah. 30 00:01:39,120 --> 00:01:42,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, And this is actually so, this is an ancient 31 00:01:42,200 --> 00:01:46,200 Speaker 3: thing that's kind of come back around full circle. And 32 00:01:46,240 --> 00:01:50,520 Speaker 3: even the name doula is a Greek term used way 33 00:01:50,600 --> 00:01:54,760 Speaker 3: back in the classical Greek days when a woman giving 34 00:01:54,800 --> 00:01:59,480 Speaker 3: birth would have female servants attending to her during birth, 35 00:01:59,600 --> 00:02:04,279 Speaker 3: helping with it, probably feeding her some grapes, waving palm 36 00:02:04,320 --> 00:02:07,400 Speaker 3: fronds on her, that kind of thing. So doula means 37 00:02:07,440 --> 00:02:11,359 Speaker 3: female servant or female slave, depending on who you're talking about. 38 00:02:11,520 --> 00:02:15,280 Speaker 4: Right, and after, you. 39 00:02:15,240 --> 00:02:18,560 Speaker 3: Know, ancient Greece fell to Rome and the Roman Empire fell, 40 00:02:18,639 --> 00:02:22,960 Speaker 3: and all of civilization took this weird course. Throughout it 41 00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:26,720 Speaker 3: all women were helped by other women while they were 42 00:02:26,760 --> 00:02:32,639 Speaker 3: giving birth. Basically up until about the first third, first 43 00:02:32,760 --> 00:02:38,919 Speaker 3: half of the twentieth century in the West, where hospitals 44 00:02:39,040 --> 00:02:42,040 Speaker 3: entered and all of a sudden, it was just the 45 00:02:42,080 --> 00:02:45,640 Speaker 3: mom giving birth surrounded by a bunch of nurses and doctors. 46 00:02:46,960 --> 00:02:49,720 Speaker 4: Is that true, Yeah. 47 00:02:49,120 --> 00:02:53,120 Speaker 2: Because I could see scenarios where there were women in 48 00:02:53,160 --> 00:02:54,519 Speaker 2: the birthroom helping along. 49 00:02:57,360 --> 00:03:00,680 Speaker 3: I think once you started to get into hospital and 50 00:03:00,800 --> 00:03:05,000 Speaker 3: the physicians in the hospital starting asserting their authority more 51 00:03:05,040 --> 00:03:10,920 Speaker 3: and more, especially through drugs. Like I saw that when 52 00:03:11,000 --> 00:03:13,480 Speaker 3: hospitals kind of took over the birthing process or took 53 00:03:13,520 --> 00:03:17,600 Speaker 3: responsibility for it from the family and from midwives and 54 00:03:17,680 --> 00:03:20,880 Speaker 3: moved it into the hospital. They used to administer a 55 00:03:20,960 --> 00:03:24,400 Speaker 3: lot of sedatives as part of the birthing process, as 56 00:03:24,440 --> 00:03:25,160 Speaker 3: part of labor. 57 00:03:25,440 --> 00:03:26,440 Speaker 4: You know, you can. 58 00:03:26,400 --> 00:03:28,600 Speaker 3: Understand why they would, but then there were all sorts 59 00:03:28,600 --> 00:03:33,040 Speaker 3: of complications from it, problems from it, so they stopped giving. 60 00:03:34,240 --> 00:03:35,240 Speaker 4: Sedatives as much. 61 00:03:35,600 --> 00:03:39,640 Speaker 3: And about that time, women who were giving birth started 62 00:03:39,640 --> 00:03:41,480 Speaker 3: to like kind of come out of it and look 63 00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:44,080 Speaker 3: around and say, whoa, it's just me and you guys 64 00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:46,880 Speaker 3: in here. I need some family members in here. And 65 00:03:46,960 --> 00:03:49,000 Speaker 3: at the time, like if you were a dad, you 66 00:03:49,040 --> 00:03:51,240 Speaker 3: were not in there, You were not in the. 67 00:03:51,240 --> 00:03:52,480 Speaker 4: Delivery room at all. 68 00:03:52,560 --> 00:03:54,520 Speaker 3: You were out in what was called the stork club, 69 00:03:55,720 --> 00:04:00,280 Speaker 3: handing out cigars maybe pacing. And the reason why it 70 00:04:00,320 --> 00:04:03,680 Speaker 3: was because to the doctors involved, it was just another 71 00:04:03,720 --> 00:04:07,600 Speaker 3: medical procedure, right, so you're not going to have randos 72 00:04:07,640 --> 00:04:10,320 Speaker 3: who have nothing to do with the actual procedure in 73 00:04:10,360 --> 00:04:13,600 Speaker 3: the room during a procedure. They treated childbirth the same way, 74 00:04:13,640 --> 00:04:15,960 Speaker 3: but women started to say, no, I need more than 75 00:04:16,040 --> 00:04:19,080 Speaker 3: just you, people who I've never met before, really attending 76 00:04:19,120 --> 00:04:21,599 Speaker 3: to the birth of my child, And so dads started 77 00:04:21,600 --> 00:04:24,040 Speaker 3: to come in, and then more family members and then 78 00:04:24,120 --> 00:04:29,440 Speaker 3: now doulas have definitely kind of come back like they 79 00:04:29,480 --> 00:04:30,320 Speaker 3: were originally. 80 00:04:30,480 --> 00:04:32,120 Speaker 4: That's my understanding of the whole thing. 81 00:04:32,720 --> 00:04:35,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, so doula's, we haven't even said what that is yet, 82 00:04:35,279 --> 00:04:36,680 Speaker 2: and that would probably help clear it up if you 83 00:04:36,680 --> 00:04:40,919 Speaker 2: don't know. Dula's are people, like we said, generally women 84 00:04:41,160 --> 00:04:44,080 Speaker 2: but not always who are childbirth coaches. 85 00:04:44,120 --> 00:04:45,640 Speaker 1: They coach you through the process. 86 00:04:45,680 --> 00:04:49,800 Speaker 2: They will, depending on the service they offer, will come 87 00:04:49,839 --> 00:04:54,680 Speaker 2: on before obviously you give birth and kind of prep 88 00:04:54,760 --> 00:04:57,400 Speaker 2: you for what's going to happen. And this I mean 89 00:04:57,440 --> 00:05:00,000 Speaker 2: it kind of depends on when your doula will come 90 00:05:00,120 --> 00:05:03,240 Speaker 2: aboard in the process, but at the very least they 91 00:05:03,279 --> 00:05:06,160 Speaker 2: will help you in the delivery room and they are 92 00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:08,680 Speaker 2: your advocate to kind of coach you through this whole thing. 93 00:05:09,400 --> 00:05:12,880 Speaker 2: And that term actually started in an article in nineteen 94 00:05:12,920 --> 00:05:16,120 Speaker 2: sixty nine by a woman named Dana Raphael and then 95 00:05:16,200 --> 00:05:18,400 Speaker 2: later on in a book in nineteen seventy three called 96 00:05:18,839 --> 00:05:22,280 Speaker 2: The Tender Gift Breastfeeding. And that's when she brought this 97 00:05:22,440 --> 00:05:25,760 Speaker 2: term back and said, you know, we're going to start 98 00:05:25,800 --> 00:05:28,720 Speaker 2: calling these women doulas and it's going to be a 99 00:05:28,720 --> 00:05:30,719 Speaker 2: real job, right. 100 00:05:30,839 --> 00:05:33,200 Speaker 4: And I think at first, what was the name of 101 00:05:33,200 --> 00:05:33,679 Speaker 4: the woman. 102 00:05:33,480 --> 00:05:35,200 Speaker 1: Who brought it back, Dana Raphael. 103 00:05:35,480 --> 00:05:37,560 Speaker 3: So she had like a pretty good idea that was 104 00:05:37,600 --> 00:05:40,680 Speaker 3: actually ahead of its time. When doula's really started to 105 00:05:40,720 --> 00:05:43,200 Speaker 3: come into use and come into their own as a 106 00:05:43,240 --> 00:05:46,040 Speaker 3: profession was in the eighties. And the reason why they 107 00:05:46,080 --> 00:05:49,760 Speaker 3: came into wider use was because hospitals were going to 108 00:05:49,800 --> 00:05:51,599 Speaker 3: see sections a lot. 109 00:05:52,600 --> 00:05:53,760 Speaker 4: Ce sections went up. 110 00:05:53,800 --> 00:05:57,400 Speaker 3: From nineteen seventy four point two percent of live births 111 00:05:57,400 --> 00:06:00,760 Speaker 3: in the US involved C sections. Teen years later, in 112 00:06:00,800 --> 00:06:04,120 Speaker 3: nineteen eighty six, a quarter of live births. 113 00:06:03,720 --> 00:06:05,440 Speaker 4: In the US involved C sections. 114 00:06:05,839 --> 00:06:08,440 Speaker 3: And there are a lot of complications with C sections, 115 00:06:09,600 --> 00:06:13,159 Speaker 3: and so you could have your husband in there, you 116 00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:15,320 Speaker 3: could have your mom in there, you could have friends, 117 00:06:15,560 --> 00:06:18,520 Speaker 3: but they're just there for you. One of the first 118 00:06:18,720 --> 00:06:22,800 Speaker 3: services that doulas started offering was to say, whoa, whoa, 119 00:06:22,960 --> 00:06:27,520 Speaker 3: Does she really need that C section? Are you sure 120 00:06:27,560 --> 00:06:29,440 Speaker 3: about that or are you just doing it because you 121 00:06:29,480 --> 00:06:33,799 Speaker 3: can charge more money. I think that was overstating exactly 122 00:06:33,839 --> 00:06:36,320 Speaker 3: the interaction they had, but that was the role they had, 123 00:06:36,440 --> 00:06:39,760 Speaker 3: was to basically provide a barrier between a doctor who 124 00:06:39,800 --> 00:06:42,000 Speaker 3: wanted to just give a sea section because he wanted 125 00:06:42,000 --> 00:06:44,800 Speaker 3: to go home and the mom who really didn't want 126 00:06:44,800 --> 00:06:45,440 Speaker 3: a C section. 127 00:06:46,440 --> 00:06:48,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's not just c sections. 128 00:06:48,240 --> 00:06:52,360 Speaker 2: They're your advocate, they're your birth advocate to make sure 129 00:06:53,080 --> 00:06:55,200 Speaker 2: or at least as best they can to try to 130 00:06:55,279 --> 00:06:58,200 Speaker 2: ensure that the birth plan that you feel best about 131 00:06:58,320 --> 00:07:01,240 Speaker 2: is the one that you end up with. Things always change, 132 00:07:01,240 --> 00:07:03,840 Speaker 2: of course, and ADULO would never put you in danger 133 00:07:03,880 --> 00:07:05,080 Speaker 2: by insisting on something. 134 00:07:05,120 --> 00:07:06,240 Speaker 1: In fact, they can't. 135 00:07:06,720 --> 00:07:09,200 Speaker 2: But they are there to speak for you on your 136 00:07:09,240 --> 00:07:13,080 Speaker 2: behalf because as a mother in labor, you're going through 137 00:07:13,120 --> 00:07:15,480 Speaker 2: a lot on your own. So it's nice to have 138 00:07:15,560 --> 00:07:18,840 Speaker 2: someone that is just there to do that job. 139 00:07:19,280 --> 00:07:19,680 Speaker 4: Yeah, and. 140 00:07:21,200 --> 00:07:24,280 Speaker 3: Is coming from a place of empathy and sympathy and 141 00:07:24,640 --> 00:07:28,320 Speaker 3: most importantly experienced. Like you said, most doulas have had 142 00:07:28,720 --> 00:07:31,920 Speaker 3: children of their own, but they've also, after a while, 143 00:07:31,960 --> 00:07:34,680 Speaker 3: attended other berths. Too, so they know what they're talking about, 144 00:07:34,880 --> 00:07:36,840 Speaker 3: they know what to expect, and they can tell you 145 00:07:36,920 --> 00:07:39,800 Speaker 3: what to expect, which can make the whole process easier, 146 00:07:39,840 --> 00:07:41,880 Speaker 3: I would imagine for any mother giving birth. 147 00:07:42,240 --> 00:07:46,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's definitely gained popularity in the two thousands. I 148 00:07:46,960 --> 00:07:51,000 Speaker 2: think I tried to find more recent statistics than twenty twelve, 149 00:07:51,000 --> 00:07:54,320 Speaker 2: but I couldn't. But in twenty twelve there were six percent. 150 00:07:55,080 --> 00:07:58,400 Speaker 2: And this is in the United States. It's very much 151 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:02,440 Speaker 2: happen all over the world some but it's sort of 152 00:08:02,480 --> 00:08:06,000 Speaker 2: an American thing. Six percent of people in twenty twelve 153 00:08:06,080 --> 00:08:09,160 Speaker 2: years to doula versus three percent in two thousand and six. 154 00:08:09,800 --> 00:08:13,400 Speaker 2: And in that same survey, twenty seven percent of people 155 00:08:13,440 --> 00:08:15,960 Speaker 2: said they would they would like to use a dula. 156 00:08:16,120 --> 00:08:20,520 Speaker 2: So you know, at least they're they're wishing or hopeful 157 00:08:20,560 --> 00:08:21,000 Speaker 2: that they can. 158 00:08:21,320 --> 00:08:23,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, that was question eight, would you like to use 159 00:08:23,800 --> 00:08:28,360 Speaker 3: a doula? Yeah, twenty seven percent said And so if 160 00:08:28,400 --> 00:08:31,280 Speaker 3: you get the impression that, like a a doctor would 161 00:08:31,360 --> 00:08:34,320 Speaker 3: not really prefer a doula to be in the labor 162 00:08:34,559 --> 00:08:38,719 Speaker 3: and delivery room, you've kind of read between the lines there. 163 00:08:38,840 --> 00:08:42,440 Speaker 3: Especially at first, the medical community saw doulas as they 164 00:08:42,440 --> 00:08:44,480 Speaker 3: were starting to really kind of come into use in 165 00:08:44,520 --> 00:08:48,960 Speaker 3: the eighties as basically meddling busy bodies who could potentially 166 00:08:49,040 --> 00:08:51,400 Speaker 3: put their patient's life in jeopardy. 167 00:08:51,480 --> 00:08:52,360 Speaker 4: Right. 168 00:08:52,440 --> 00:08:55,840 Speaker 3: But then in nineteen ninety two, DULAS of North America 169 00:08:56,000 --> 00:09:01,120 Speaker 3: was found at DONA. It's like the first DULA license body, 170 00:09:01,480 --> 00:09:05,720 Speaker 3: certification and training and licensing body, and they were founded. 171 00:09:05,800 --> 00:09:09,800 Speaker 3: It was founded by medical professionals, which kind of created 172 00:09:09,800 --> 00:09:13,240 Speaker 3: a bridge. It bridged the gap or kind of got 173 00:09:13,720 --> 00:09:16,760 Speaker 3: smoothed over the rough feelings between the medical community and 174 00:09:16,800 --> 00:09:20,040 Speaker 3: the doula community. And it also added a real air 175 00:09:20,080 --> 00:09:23,000 Speaker 3: of legitimacy to the profession of being a doula. 176 00:09:23,559 --> 00:09:26,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, and the impression I get now is that if 177 00:09:26,960 --> 00:09:28,760 Speaker 2: you have a good doula who is good with people, 178 00:09:28,840 --> 00:09:33,439 Speaker 2: which is ideally what your doula is, if your deal 179 00:09:33,480 --> 00:09:35,400 Speaker 2: is not a people person, that's probably not going to 180 00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:37,520 Speaker 2: be a good thing. But the idea I get is 181 00:09:37,559 --> 00:09:40,640 Speaker 2: that doctors and nurses like having dulas there now because 182 00:09:41,160 --> 00:09:43,920 Speaker 2: they can just concentrate on They don't have to be 183 00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:48,920 Speaker 2: the ones providing emotional empathetic support, although they can still 184 00:09:48,960 --> 00:09:51,680 Speaker 2: do death they want, they can just concentrate on the 185 00:09:51,720 --> 00:09:54,000 Speaker 2: medical aspects of it. And they know that they have 186 00:09:54,040 --> 00:09:58,120 Speaker 2: a trained, hopefully licensed dula, and we'll get into that 187 00:09:58,200 --> 00:10:01,600 Speaker 2: later on hand to sort of say, you know what, 188 00:10:01,679 --> 00:10:03,880 Speaker 2: I don't have to deal with that part of things. 189 00:10:04,080 --> 00:10:06,319 Speaker 2: You're in good hands with this doula and I can 190 00:10:06,360 --> 00:10:08,040 Speaker 2: just concentrate on the medical parts. 191 00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:14,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, now, all love doula, that's right. One of the 192 00:10:14,800 --> 00:10:18,439 Speaker 3: other reasons or functions that doulas provide you kind of 193 00:10:18,520 --> 00:10:22,800 Speaker 3: hit on, is that they they provide a service that 194 00:10:22,880 --> 00:10:26,360 Speaker 3: hospitals used to provide through nurses, right where if you 195 00:10:26,400 --> 00:10:29,320 Speaker 3: had a nurse in a labor and delivery room, they 196 00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:32,880 Speaker 3: wouldn't spend as much time or give you as much 197 00:10:32,920 --> 00:10:35,720 Speaker 3: attention as, say, like your mom would or a friend 198 00:10:35,800 --> 00:10:38,240 Speaker 3: or your husband even but they gave you a lot 199 00:10:38,360 --> 00:10:43,559 Speaker 3: more early on than they did. As surveillance of patients 200 00:10:43,600 --> 00:10:47,480 Speaker 3: moved to electronics right to where somebody could just kind 201 00:10:47,480 --> 00:10:49,880 Speaker 3: of sit at the nurses station and check on everybody 202 00:10:50,080 --> 00:10:50,920 Speaker 3: and they didn't have to. 203 00:10:50,880 --> 00:10:51,760 Speaker 4: Go into the rooms. 204 00:10:52,080 --> 00:10:55,800 Speaker 3: And now you nurses were charged with watching even more 205 00:10:55,920 --> 00:11:00,000 Speaker 3: people at once, right, So the personal attention dropped dramatic 206 00:11:01,640 --> 00:11:07,000 Speaker 3: as electronic surveillance of patients increased, and the dula's kind 207 00:11:07,040 --> 00:11:09,040 Speaker 3: of came in to fill that role as well. 208 00:11:09,440 --> 00:11:11,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, Like they're sitting in the room with you and 209 00:11:11,440 --> 00:11:16,080 Speaker 2: hanging out. They don't get called in like twenty minutes 210 00:11:16,120 --> 00:11:19,280 Speaker 2: before you give birth. They're with you, you know, sometimes 211 00:11:19,360 --> 00:11:21,880 Speaker 2: days and weeks before hand, coaching you and what to 212 00:11:21,960 --> 00:11:23,920 Speaker 2: expect and how you're going to go about this and 213 00:11:23,960 --> 00:11:26,680 Speaker 2: what your plan is. And then on the day, like 214 00:11:26,720 --> 00:11:30,040 Speaker 2: even if dad is in there and the husband is 215 00:11:30,040 --> 00:11:34,560 Speaker 2: in there providing support, that's great, But the dula is 216 00:11:34,600 --> 00:11:37,480 Speaker 2: just that extra step and that extra measure of support 217 00:11:39,040 --> 00:11:42,760 Speaker 2: that is super knowledgeable about what it's going to be like, 218 00:11:42,840 --> 00:11:46,560 Speaker 2: where the husband might not exactly you know, be able 219 00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:49,280 Speaker 2: to lend the most insightful ear there, you know what 220 00:11:49,360 --> 00:11:52,440 Speaker 2: I mean. Yeah, so you want to take a break. 221 00:11:52,600 --> 00:11:54,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, let's take a break and then we'll come back 222 00:11:54,160 --> 00:11:57,040 Speaker 3: and talk about what to expect when you're expecting to 223 00:11:57,160 --> 00:12:12,360 Speaker 3: work with a doula. 224 00:12:15,120 --> 00:12:20,040 Speaker 1: Saish all right, So. 225 00:12:21,520 --> 00:12:25,520 Speaker 2: Here's a misconception some people get. Some people think that 226 00:12:25,600 --> 00:12:29,320 Speaker 2: doulas are authorized or trained to give birth. 227 00:12:30,120 --> 00:12:30,920 Speaker 1: That is not true. 228 00:12:30,960 --> 00:12:34,560 Speaker 2: They don't deliver babies, they don't perform any sort of 229 00:12:34,640 --> 00:12:37,800 Speaker 2: medical procedures. They don't put an IV in your arm, 230 00:12:37,880 --> 00:12:41,640 Speaker 2: They don't work the heart rate monitor. Most times, they 231 00:12:41,679 --> 00:12:44,199 Speaker 2: don't even work for the hospital. You have hired them independently, 232 00:12:44,720 --> 00:12:47,200 Speaker 2: and again they're just there to coach you. They're not 233 00:12:47,240 --> 00:12:51,000 Speaker 2: even midwives. Midwives can deliver a baby. 234 00:12:50,360 --> 00:12:53,640 Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, they're not allowed anywhere near the medical stuff, 235 00:12:54,120 --> 00:12:57,040 Speaker 3: but they need to know what the medical stuff is 236 00:12:57,760 --> 00:12:59,719 Speaker 3: so that they can say, well, this is what they're 237 00:12:59,720 --> 00:13:02,840 Speaker 3: about to do, or this is what they're suggesting right now, 238 00:13:02,880 --> 00:13:06,800 Speaker 3: and here are your options. And then also when they're 239 00:13:06,840 --> 00:13:11,040 Speaker 3: administering the medical stuff, which can be pretty uncomfortable pretty frequently, 240 00:13:11,160 --> 00:13:14,320 Speaker 3: I would imagine the duela is there to kind of 241 00:13:14,760 --> 00:13:17,040 Speaker 3: tell the mom what to expect and the comforter her 242 00:13:17,240 --> 00:13:18,320 Speaker 3: in all sorts of ways. 243 00:13:19,080 --> 00:13:22,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, and maybe not even offer advice, like I think 244 00:13:22,160 --> 00:13:25,080 Speaker 2: the idea is that adula will lay it all out 245 00:13:25,080 --> 00:13:27,600 Speaker 2: there so you can make an informed decision and not 246 00:13:27,640 --> 00:13:30,000 Speaker 2: necessarily say well, if I were you, this is what 247 00:13:30,040 --> 00:13:30,480 Speaker 2: I would do. 248 00:13:30,800 --> 00:13:33,480 Speaker 3: Well, yeah, that's a slippery slope right there, because then 249 00:13:33,480 --> 00:13:35,800 Speaker 3: all of a sudden, if things go wrong, you can say, well, 250 00:13:35,840 --> 00:13:37,839 Speaker 3: the DULA told me to do that, and the dula 251 00:13:37,920 --> 00:13:40,000 Speaker 3: is like, I'm toast. 252 00:13:42,600 --> 00:13:45,720 Speaker 2: Duelas have to be great listeners. We already talked about 253 00:13:45,720 --> 00:13:48,679 Speaker 2: the empathy piece. They have to be very empathetic and 254 00:13:48,720 --> 00:13:51,400 Speaker 2: they will, like I said, start meeting before birth to 255 00:13:51,440 --> 00:13:54,839 Speaker 2: answer any kind of questions, come up with that birth plan, 256 00:13:56,000 --> 00:13:59,280 Speaker 2: and really listen a lot to the wife and the 257 00:13:59,360 --> 00:14:03,160 Speaker 2: husband so everybody is on the same page. And like 258 00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:06,600 Speaker 2: I said, on the day, things can change. But going 259 00:14:06,640 --> 00:14:09,360 Speaker 2: in you generally want to have a pretty good idea 260 00:14:09,520 --> 00:14:14,240 Speaker 2: of everything from medications you might want to use, if any. 261 00:14:14,600 --> 00:14:17,000 Speaker 1: To where you want to have the baby. 262 00:14:17,000 --> 00:14:19,720 Speaker 2: The dula can come on board and kind of explain 263 00:14:19,800 --> 00:14:23,000 Speaker 2: if they're knowledgeable, which hopefully they are, about the hospitals 264 00:14:23,040 --> 00:14:25,960 Speaker 2: around you, and maybe even help you pick out where 265 00:14:26,120 --> 00:14:27,640 Speaker 2: you're going to give birth. 266 00:14:28,640 --> 00:14:31,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, and I mean, if you already have an idea 267 00:14:31,640 --> 00:14:33,840 Speaker 3: of what you want, the doula can, you know, kind 268 00:14:33,840 --> 00:14:35,680 Speaker 3: of tell you how to make that happen. Or if 269 00:14:35,720 --> 00:14:37,320 Speaker 3: you have no idea what you want, the doula can 270 00:14:37,360 --> 00:14:40,280 Speaker 3: also tell you some other alternatives that you might not 271 00:14:40,440 --> 00:14:43,840 Speaker 3: have thought of. And I saw a Parent's magazine article 272 00:14:43,840 --> 00:14:47,200 Speaker 3: about doula's They laid out what basically what you can 273 00:14:47,280 --> 00:14:51,600 Speaker 3: expect from the average doula for the doula's fees one 274 00:14:51,640 --> 00:14:56,440 Speaker 3: to two in person pre natal visits and then access 275 00:14:56,480 --> 00:14:59,800 Speaker 3: to the doula for follow up questions through email or 276 00:15:00,200 --> 00:15:05,240 Speaker 3: or phone calls. They're full attention and presence during your 277 00:15:05,360 --> 00:15:10,960 Speaker 3: labor and then sometimes frequently I get the idea a 278 00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:15,000 Speaker 3: follow up visit in at your house after the baby 279 00:15:15,040 --> 00:15:17,920 Speaker 3: comes home. That typically if you hire a doula, this 280 00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:20,880 Speaker 3: is this is about the average you can expect to them. 281 00:15:20,920 --> 00:15:25,800 Speaker 3: There's definitely a lot of differences. There's some will give 282 00:15:25,840 --> 00:15:27,840 Speaker 3: you a little more, some will give you a little less, 283 00:15:27,840 --> 00:15:30,160 Speaker 3: some will charge more, some will do it for free. 284 00:15:31,160 --> 00:15:33,400 Speaker 3: It's just all over the place as far as you 285 00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:35,400 Speaker 3: know what you're actually going to shell out and what 286 00:15:35,440 --> 00:15:37,920 Speaker 3: you're going to get from a doula. But for the 287 00:15:37,960 --> 00:15:41,880 Speaker 3: most part, you the dula is going to have met 288 00:15:41,920 --> 00:15:46,080 Speaker 3: you before you give birth, and then the doula will 289 00:15:46,080 --> 00:15:49,160 Speaker 3: be there throughout the whole labor and delivery process. 290 00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:51,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, and it says in this article that there are 291 00:15:52,400 --> 00:15:58,040 Speaker 2: specialist dulas like antipartum doulas and postpartum doulas and labor doulas. 292 00:15:59,080 --> 00:16:02,320 Speaker 2: That if you want an antipartum doula to be if 293 00:16:02,360 --> 00:16:04,880 Speaker 2: you want more than those two meetings, you might want 294 00:16:04,880 --> 00:16:06,880 Speaker 2: to hire someone who will be with you for several 295 00:16:06,880 --> 00:16:10,120 Speaker 2: weeks beforehand, or if you want someone postpartum to be 296 00:16:10,200 --> 00:16:14,080 Speaker 2: with you to coach you through breastfeeding or you know, 297 00:16:14,200 --> 00:16:16,240 Speaker 2: changing diapers or just any of that kind of coaching, 298 00:16:16,240 --> 00:16:18,640 Speaker 2: you can hire someone to do that. But I get 299 00:16:18,680 --> 00:16:23,840 Speaker 2: the sense that doula's generally will sort of work with 300 00:16:23,880 --> 00:16:25,800 Speaker 2: you on whatever kind of plan you want. 301 00:16:26,440 --> 00:16:26,680 Speaker 4: Right. 302 00:16:26,720 --> 00:16:30,160 Speaker 2: It may may cost a little extra, but I get 303 00:16:30,160 --> 00:16:32,240 Speaker 2: the sense of adula wouldn't say like, Nope, you get 304 00:16:32,240 --> 00:16:35,160 Speaker 2: two meetings and that's it. They might be like, no, 305 00:16:35,280 --> 00:16:37,160 Speaker 2: I'll come in for a third and fourth meeting. It'll 306 00:16:37,320 --> 00:16:40,360 Speaker 2: be an extra of this much money, and I can 307 00:16:40,400 --> 00:16:41,920 Speaker 2: hang with you for a week or two afterward. 308 00:16:41,960 --> 00:16:44,240 Speaker 3: Here and there I found I think it was through 309 00:16:44,280 --> 00:16:47,840 Speaker 3: a BuzzFeed article. I stumbled upon a there's a huge 310 00:16:47,960 --> 00:16:55,200 Speaker 3: rift in the doula community actually between the typical traditional approach. 311 00:16:54,840 --> 00:16:56,680 Speaker 4: To being a doula, which is. 312 00:16:58,400 --> 00:17:00,960 Speaker 3: I'll work with you on a sliding scale for how 313 00:17:01,040 --> 00:17:03,760 Speaker 3: much you can afford, or this is my fee, but 314 00:17:03,800 --> 00:17:05,879 Speaker 3: I'll throw in an extra visit just to you know, 315 00:17:05,920 --> 00:17:07,640 Speaker 3: make you feel like you're getting your money's worth. 316 00:17:07,920 --> 00:17:10,000 Speaker 4: Or I'll do it for free. 317 00:17:10,160 --> 00:17:15,639 Speaker 3: I just want to help you, because Donah's mission is 318 00:17:15,880 --> 00:17:19,360 Speaker 3: that a doula for every every mother who wants one, 319 00:17:19,440 --> 00:17:22,040 Speaker 3: Like every mother should have a doula basically, right. And 320 00:17:22,080 --> 00:17:25,240 Speaker 3: then there's this other group called pro doula and there 321 00:17:25,520 --> 00:17:31,359 Speaker 3: they can't stand doulas who who charge less than like 322 00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:35,120 Speaker 3: a decent amount for their services or do it for free. 323 00:17:35,160 --> 00:17:40,400 Speaker 3: They actually call dulas who do this for free oxytocin vampires, 324 00:17:40,440 --> 00:17:43,080 Speaker 3: like they're just there to to bask in the reflective 325 00:17:43,080 --> 00:17:46,280 Speaker 3: glow of this this amazing experience that the mother just 326 00:17:46,320 --> 00:17:47,960 Speaker 3: went through, the parents just went through. 327 00:17:49,200 --> 00:17:50,880 Speaker 4: And they're really kind of. 328 00:17:52,440 --> 00:17:56,600 Speaker 3: Kicking other doulas around and they're kind of bullies. It's 329 00:17:56,640 --> 00:18:00,520 Speaker 3: in a really weird way. But there's like the big 330 00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:06,680 Speaker 3: debate over whether doulas are undervalued or underselling themselves. 331 00:18:07,800 --> 00:18:09,520 Speaker 4: But I mean, I definitely get. 332 00:18:09,440 --> 00:18:13,320 Speaker 3: The idea that every woman who wants to have a 333 00:18:13,400 --> 00:18:16,159 Speaker 3: doula should be able to have a dula regardless of 334 00:18:16,160 --> 00:18:16,760 Speaker 3: her income. 335 00:18:16,880 --> 00:18:19,040 Speaker 4: You know. Yeah, that makes sense to me. 336 00:18:19,960 --> 00:18:23,320 Speaker 1: Like a pro bono for people that don't have as 337 00:18:23,359 --> 00:18:23,879 Speaker 1: much money. 338 00:18:24,240 --> 00:18:24,560 Speaker 4: Yeah. 339 00:18:24,640 --> 00:18:26,600 Speaker 3: On the other hand, I also get that if you 340 00:18:26,640 --> 00:18:28,880 Speaker 3: are a doula and you're doing your job really well, then. 341 00:18:28,840 --> 00:18:31,680 Speaker 4: Yeah, you should expect to be paid. I think there's 342 00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:32,399 Speaker 4: a happy medium. 343 00:18:32,440 --> 00:18:34,919 Speaker 3: I don't think has to be like, Nope, this is 344 00:18:35,040 --> 00:18:37,399 Speaker 3: the price, and anybody who goes underneath it should be 345 00:18:37,440 --> 00:18:39,119 Speaker 3: ostracized from the doula community. 346 00:18:39,560 --> 00:18:39,960 Speaker 1: Yeah. 347 00:18:40,119 --> 00:18:43,080 Speaker 2: The other thing about doula's another misconception a lot of 348 00:18:43,080 --> 00:18:46,000 Speaker 2: people think is that it's just some hippie dippy thing 349 00:18:46,119 --> 00:18:48,720 Speaker 2: that if you don't want to if you only want 350 00:18:48,760 --> 00:18:51,679 Speaker 2: to have like a natural childbirth, then you get the 351 00:18:51,720 --> 00:18:54,160 Speaker 2: doula in there, and that they're not there for anything 352 00:18:54,160 --> 00:18:54,800 Speaker 2: other than that. 353 00:18:55,080 --> 00:18:55,920 Speaker 1: And that's not the case. 354 00:18:56,000 --> 00:18:58,879 Speaker 2: They are there to support you in whatever kind of 355 00:18:58,880 --> 00:19:01,360 Speaker 2: birth you want to have, whether it's a home birth 356 00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:03,919 Speaker 2: or water birth, or whether or not you want to 357 00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:07,800 Speaker 2: get an epidural or be loaded up on every pharmaceutical 358 00:19:07,840 --> 00:19:11,600 Speaker 2: they offer mothers in labor. Uh, they're there just to 359 00:19:11,760 --> 00:19:14,480 Speaker 2: have knowledge of all that stuff, so you know what 360 00:19:14,520 --> 00:19:15,240 Speaker 2: you're getting into. 361 00:19:15,560 --> 00:19:15,800 Speaker 4: Yeah. 362 00:19:16,160 --> 00:19:18,440 Speaker 3: And then so during labor, this is where this is 363 00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:19,600 Speaker 3: where the doodless shines. 364 00:19:19,720 --> 00:19:19,920 Speaker 4: Right. 365 00:19:19,960 --> 00:19:25,720 Speaker 3: They're there to help with alternatives to pain treatment. 366 00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:26,120 Speaker 4: Right. 367 00:19:26,160 --> 00:19:28,720 Speaker 3: So again, they can't administer any kind of drugs or anything. 368 00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:30,480 Speaker 3: I would guess that they could even get in trouble 369 00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:34,880 Speaker 3: for giving you an advil, but they can do other things, 370 00:19:34,920 --> 00:19:38,720 Speaker 3: like they can massage you in ways that you had 371 00:19:38,760 --> 00:19:41,920 Speaker 3: not ever heard of before that helps with labor pains. 372 00:19:42,320 --> 00:19:44,879 Speaker 3: I came across this one technique where they pull on 373 00:19:45,480 --> 00:19:50,640 Speaker 3: a couple of toes, specific toes, and it helps actually 374 00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:53,879 Speaker 3: move the labor along if you're if you have a 375 00:19:53,920 --> 00:19:59,000 Speaker 3: slow labor. There's kneading techniques, there's stroking techniques, pressure on 376 00:19:59,080 --> 00:20:01,040 Speaker 3: the bottom of your feet, There's all sorts of stuff 377 00:20:01,080 --> 00:20:04,280 Speaker 3: they can do at various times throughout the labor and 378 00:20:04,320 --> 00:20:07,600 Speaker 3: delivery process. They can help alleviate the pain that you're 379 00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:10,399 Speaker 3: going through, and that's one of the big roles that 380 00:20:10,440 --> 00:20:11,840 Speaker 3: they played during labor. 381 00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:16,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, when my kid was born, I was shocked at 382 00:20:16,560 --> 00:20:17,840 Speaker 2: how many people were in the room. 383 00:20:17,920 --> 00:20:22,159 Speaker 3: First of all, how many oh Man Baker's dozen, I 384 00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:24,040 Speaker 3: mean twenty. 385 00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:27,119 Speaker 1: Emily and I birth mom. 386 00:20:27,640 --> 00:20:31,960 Speaker 2: Obviously our adoption counselor who was a licensed dulist, so 387 00:20:32,040 --> 00:20:35,560 Speaker 2: she really served that function for the birth mom, which. 388 00:20:35,359 --> 00:20:42,040 Speaker 1: Was really a great great plus. The doctor, I guess. 389 00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:45,160 Speaker 2: I'm not even sure what the roles are, what their 390 00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:50,199 Speaker 2: technical titles are, but the doctor came in when it 391 00:20:50,240 --> 00:20:54,160 Speaker 2: was go time and basically just checked things out and said, well, 392 00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:56,160 Speaker 2: I think it's go time. And then he stepped out 393 00:20:56,160 --> 00:20:58,560 Speaker 2: of the way and these two nurses came in there, 394 00:20:58,600 --> 00:21:02,960 Speaker 2: and ninety seconds later there was a baby, so it 395 00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:06,040 Speaker 2: was and those were so it was two nurses that 396 00:21:06,280 --> 00:21:09,040 Speaker 2: that was probably like, there's probably at least twelve people 397 00:21:09,040 --> 00:21:09,560 Speaker 2: in that room. 398 00:21:09,800 --> 00:21:11,359 Speaker 4: Wow, that's a lot of people. 399 00:21:11,520 --> 00:21:15,360 Speaker 2: It was crowded and fast and surreal and weird and amazing. 400 00:21:16,800 --> 00:21:18,760 Speaker 4: Even weirder, they brought in. 401 00:21:18,680 --> 00:21:21,760 Speaker 1: Carrot Top to cut the cord, but no, Emily cut 402 00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:22,080 Speaker 1: the cord. 403 00:21:22,280 --> 00:21:22,840 Speaker 4: Okay, cool. 404 00:21:22,880 --> 00:21:24,960 Speaker 2: Emily actually helped sort of deliver in a way, because 405 00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:28,879 Speaker 2: you know, they like to bring in I guess you know, 406 00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:31,560 Speaker 2: in a in a regular biological birth, that would be 407 00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:34,720 Speaker 2: the husband probably in there saying. 408 00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:36,879 Speaker 1: Hey, do you want to help hold the legs or 409 00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:37,359 Speaker 1: do whatever. 410 00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:39,440 Speaker 2: In this case, it was Emily and I just took 411 00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:45,800 Speaker 2: a respectful position by the birth mom's head right, sort 412 00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:50,080 Speaker 2: of looking looking down that way. I was like, you know, 413 00:21:50,600 --> 00:21:51,919 Speaker 2: she was She was like, you can go wherever you 414 00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:53,160 Speaker 2: want to go. But I was like, you know, I'll 415 00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:53,760 Speaker 2: just hang right. 416 00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:56,280 Speaker 4: Here, right, And Emily's like that's right. 417 00:21:56,359 --> 00:21:58,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, I just I wanted to be there, and you 418 00:21:58,080 --> 00:22:00,600 Speaker 2: know I was. I was helping support her as well, uh, 419 00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:03,560 Speaker 2: holding her hand and patting her on the head and 420 00:22:03,640 --> 00:22:04,879 Speaker 2: all that all that nice stuff. 421 00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:06,480 Speaker 4: That's cool, man, Yeah, it was. 422 00:22:06,520 --> 00:22:07,120 Speaker 1: It was amazing. 423 00:22:07,359 --> 00:22:09,320 Speaker 3: Did I ever tell you the story for when my 424 00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:12,760 Speaker 3: niece Mila was born and my sister in law was 425 00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:16,800 Speaker 3: giving birth and she let everybody in the in the 426 00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:17,520 Speaker 3: labor room. 427 00:22:17,640 --> 00:22:19,480 Speaker 1: I was surprised, you can have a party in there. 428 00:22:19,640 --> 00:22:20,040 Speaker 4: Yeah. 429 00:22:20,160 --> 00:22:24,720 Speaker 3: And when she really was going into into she was delivering. 430 00:22:26,440 --> 00:22:30,280 Speaker 3: I stood back behind this curtain, right and the doctor 431 00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:32,600 Speaker 3: comes in and walks past me and kind of gives 432 00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:34,240 Speaker 3: me a nod, and I hear him go to the crowd. 433 00:22:34,280 --> 00:22:36,800 Speaker 3: He's like, you know, there's like some guy standing behind 434 00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:40,960 Speaker 3: that curtain right, Like, yeah, he's supposed to be there. 435 00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:42,320 Speaker 4: It was pretty bud. 436 00:22:42,520 --> 00:22:44,520 Speaker 1: He's the He's the ward creeper. 437 00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:46,880 Speaker 4: Right exactly. I'm like, Okay, I've heard enough here. 438 00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:49,720 Speaker 3: I'm going to the next room. 439 00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:51,280 Speaker 1: All right, Well, let's take another break. 440 00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:54,600 Speaker 2: Now that we've shared our stories, we'll come back and 441 00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:56,399 Speaker 2: talk a little bit about how you become a doula. 442 00:22:56,520 --> 00:23:19,800 Speaker 3: Right for this, all right, Chuck, So, if you wanted 443 00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:25,159 Speaker 3: to become a doula, basically, you start in training. At 444 00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:28,639 Speaker 3: age three, you're sent off to Europe to apprentice at 445 00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:31,480 Speaker 3: the one DULA school in the world and they make 446 00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:33,680 Speaker 3: you eat a lot of magic cake. And then when 447 00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:36,640 Speaker 3: you're sixty you get to actually start out on your own. 448 00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:38,840 Speaker 1: That's exactly right. 449 00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:42,800 Speaker 2: Okay, Well, before you decide to become adula, you need 450 00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:44,760 Speaker 2: to give a lot of thought on what you're going 451 00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:48,160 Speaker 2: to be getting into. You know, the hours are long 452 00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:51,600 Speaker 2: at birth job. Birth is very stressful, and especially if 453 00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:55,600 Speaker 2: there are complications, that can be super stressful in a 454 00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:57,159 Speaker 2: matter of life or death. So you've got to be 455 00:23:57,160 --> 00:24:00,119 Speaker 2: able to deal with that stuff in the moment and 456 00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:03,399 Speaker 2: hang in there and be the birth coach that mom needs, 457 00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:07,040 Speaker 2: you know, in the most stressful of situations. But then 458 00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:09,960 Speaker 2: on the plus side, you get to see little bebies 459 00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:13,720 Speaker 2: coming out on the rag and what's better than that, 460 00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:14,080 Speaker 2: you know. 461 00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:17,679 Speaker 3: I can't think of too many things talk about an 462 00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:21,720 Speaker 3: oxytocin hit maybe magic cake, magic cake. 463 00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:26,919 Speaker 1: You do you not have to have a college degree. 464 00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:29,879 Speaker 2: You don't have to have a high school degree. 465 00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:32,800 Speaker 4: You you don't even have to be certified. It's not 466 00:24:33,359 --> 00:24:35,080 Speaker 4: law that you have to be certified. 467 00:24:35,359 --> 00:24:38,320 Speaker 2: Yeah you don't, but it is there are more and 468 00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:43,320 Speaker 2: more programs now and more certification and licensing programs out there. 469 00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:45,919 Speaker 2: So if you want to be a duela, my advice 470 00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:48,040 Speaker 2: is to go that route. You probably just get more 471 00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:48,840 Speaker 2: work that way. 472 00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:51,399 Speaker 3: Right, So when you're when you're starting out, you would 473 00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:53,920 Speaker 3: go to if you wanted to get certified, you would 474 00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:57,000 Speaker 3: go to one of the certifying bodies like DONA or 475 00:24:57,560 --> 00:24:59,560 Speaker 3: what are what are the other two that are mentioned 476 00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:03,840 Speaker 3: in here. There's one called c Appa Kappa Sure and 477 00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:07,560 Speaker 3: then the American Pregnancy Association. All three of those certify 478 00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:12,560 Speaker 3: and train doulas. Don't, from what I could tell, is 479 00:25:13,119 --> 00:25:16,000 Speaker 3: the oldest. Obviously, it was the first one and it 480 00:25:16,040 --> 00:25:18,360 Speaker 3: seems to be the most respected. But I would guess 481 00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:20,600 Speaker 3: if you get your training from any of those three, 482 00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:25,080 Speaker 3: you're probably doing pretty good. They'll offer online classes, in 483 00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:29,440 Speaker 3: person classes, self pace study. 484 00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:29,000 Speaker 4: And. 485 00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:33,560 Speaker 3: You typically need to go take a birthing class, a 486 00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:37,639 Speaker 3: breastfeeding class because again you need to know, like you 487 00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:39,639 Speaker 3: need to be current on all the stuff that's going 488 00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:43,520 Speaker 3: on with labor and delivery. Right, if you took these 489 00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:46,000 Speaker 3: classes ten years ago and then did it again today, 490 00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:49,280 Speaker 3: you would probably find some real differences in new stuff 491 00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:51,720 Speaker 3: that's been discovered in the last ten years, so you 492 00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:54,359 Speaker 3: would need to be pretty current, even if you've had kids. 493 00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:54,960 Speaker 4: Of your own before. 494 00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:59,040 Speaker 3: Sure, and then you also need to attend at least 495 00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:04,159 Speaker 3: one I have the impression that multiple berths under the 496 00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:08,359 Speaker 3: apprenticeship of another doula who's already certified or trained or 497 00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:11,919 Speaker 3: experienced before you really go off on your own to 498 00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:13,040 Speaker 3: become certified. 499 00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:15,600 Speaker 4: Yeah, and that's. 500 00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:18,400 Speaker 3: I mean, that's just I would I would say, how 501 00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:21,959 Speaker 3: many berths have you been a part of, you know, 502 00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:25,200 Speaker 3: already before I hired a doula. That's a pretty big 503 00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:27,840 Speaker 3: question if you ask me, so they would want to say, well, 504 00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:30,560 Speaker 3: I've been you know, I've assisted in like three or 505 00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:31,960 Speaker 3: five or however many. 506 00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:34,360 Speaker 4: But you're going to be my first solo. 507 00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:35,920 Speaker 1: Your perst solo flight. 508 00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:38,520 Speaker 4: Yep, you will. 509 00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:40,200 Speaker 2: It depends on where you live, on how much you're 510 00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:42,760 Speaker 2: going to pay. If you if you live in a 511 00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:46,600 Speaker 2: big fancy city like New York City, you're gonna be 512 00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:48,320 Speaker 2: paying top dollar for your doula. If you live in 513 00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:50,480 Speaker 2: Los Angeles, canna be paying top dollar for your doula. 514 00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:53,200 Speaker 4: I saw like thirty five hundred at least for each 515 00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:53,920 Speaker 4: of those cities. 516 00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:56,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, but that that scale can go all the way 517 00:26:56,560 --> 00:27:00,359 Speaker 2: down to zero. Well, sure, all the way to zero, 518 00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:02,439 Speaker 2: but if you were paying a doula, that number can 519 00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:05,960 Speaker 2: go all the way down to six hundred to eight hundred, 520 00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:11,560 Speaker 2: one thousand dollars and you know in the fly ower states, right. 521 00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:14,399 Speaker 3: But again, I mean like, if if this is the 522 00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:17,320 Speaker 3: doula's first time on their own, you're probably not going 523 00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:22,280 Speaker 3: to be paying top dollar. And if you say, look, 524 00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:25,480 Speaker 3: I really really really want to have a doula at 525 00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:29,560 Speaker 3: my at my child's birth, but I really genuinely don't 526 00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:33,280 Speaker 3: have this money. I actually got a lift once from 527 00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:35,880 Speaker 3: a doula and she was talking about having to deal 528 00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:39,159 Speaker 3: with this family who clearly was very well off but 529 00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:42,840 Speaker 3: was pleading poverty. And she was like, I'm the one 530 00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:45,760 Speaker 3: who's a doula and driving a lift here, and these 531 00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:47,720 Speaker 3: guys are trying to like short change me. 532 00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:50,080 Speaker 4: Interesting, so she said she told them no. 533 00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:52,119 Speaker 3: She said she tried to work with them, but they 534 00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:56,600 Speaker 3: wouldn't they wouldn't budge about whatever they thought her services. 535 00:27:56,119 --> 00:27:58,240 Speaker 4: Were worth, so she had to just walk on. 536 00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:02,840 Speaker 2: But why would a family that's well off not paid 537 00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:04,160 Speaker 2: eight hundred dollars. 538 00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:07,480 Speaker 3: I don't know, because I remember thinking like Wow, that's 539 00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:09,560 Speaker 3: that's all it costs for a doula. She might have 540 00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:13,320 Speaker 3: even been quoting them less than eight hundred dollars. Yeah, 541 00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:16,520 Speaker 3: so there is definitely like there seems to be a 542 00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:20,000 Speaker 3: tension between the desire to have a doula and the 543 00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:26,160 Speaker 3: sense of non obligation to pay a doula a decent wage, 544 00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:27,880 Speaker 3: which I think is where. 545 00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:31,560 Speaker 4: That pro doula group pulls their hair out right. 546 00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:35,760 Speaker 2: You know, well, you may get it covered by insurance. 547 00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:39,800 Speaker 2: There are more and more cases in insurance companies that 548 00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:43,760 Speaker 2: will let something like this be covered. But it never 549 00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:46,080 Speaker 2: hurts to ask. This article points out you can. You 550 00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:48,840 Speaker 2: can always ask, You can always file a claim and 551 00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:51,000 Speaker 2: just see if you'll get a little assistance there. 552 00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:54,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, if you live in Oregon and Minnesota, though, Medicaid 553 00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:58,360 Speaker 3: will reimburse your full doula expenses for a certified doula, 554 00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:02,719 Speaker 3: which is pretty awesome. Like, that's huge in groundbreaking that 555 00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:07,040 Speaker 3: those two states have that for sure. The reason why 556 00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:10,600 Speaker 3: they would pay anything for a doula rather than just 557 00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:13,600 Speaker 3: being like just burn some sage or something and you know, 558 00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:17,920 Speaker 3: spend five bucks, is because there has been studies about 559 00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:21,600 Speaker 3: doulas and they have come out quite positive in some 560 00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:25,560 Speaker 3: pretty good peer reviewed studies in peer reviewed journals. 561 00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:27,960 Speaker 4: Right, have you seen any of this? 562 00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:31,800 Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I saw the one fifteen thousand people. That's 563 00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:33,400 Speaker 2: a pretty decent study size. 564 00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:35,720 Speaker 1: And they said. 565 00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:39,560 Speaker 2: In the study size, there were some women who had 566 00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:42,720 Speaker 2: dulas and some women who did not have dulas or 567 00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:46,000 Speaker 2: any kind of support like that. And then outcomes for 568 00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:49,560 Speaker 2: women with continuous support were better than those without, meaning 569 00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:52,840 Speaker 2: their labors were shorter by about forty minutes on average. 570 00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:57,320 Speaker 2: Their babies had higher Appgar scores. Which Appgar are these 571 00:29:57,360 --> 00:29:59,360 Speaker 2: tests they give your baby, Like the first thing your 572 00:29:59,400 --> 00:29:59,920 Speaker 2: kid has to. 573 00:29:59,840 --> 00:30:00,720 Speaker 1: Do, take a test. 574 00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:04,920 Speaker 2: No seconds later they're given your kid their first test. 575 00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:08,560 Speaker 4: Yeah, activity, pulse, grimace, appearance, and respiration. 576 00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:09,280 Speaker 1: That's right. 577 00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:15,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, And so higher Appcar scores, fewer negative feelings about childbirth, 578 00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:19,480 Speaker 2: like this is the emotional component. They required, less pain medication, 579 00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:26,040 Speaker 2: fewer uses of forceps or vacuum assisted interventions see sections. 580 00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:28,640 Speaker 1: Across the board, dula's helped. 581 00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:33,120 Speaker 2: And what was really interesting was there was basically nothing 582 00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:35,520 Speaker 2: that could point at that said having a DULA was 583 00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:36,600 Speaker 2: a negative in any way. 584 00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:39,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, and even when they look just at doulas rather 585 00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:43,640 Speaker 3: than just all types of continuous support just at dula's. 586 00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:45,480 Speaker 4: The dula's they held up too. 587 00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:48,840 Speaker 3: There was less use of pitocin, less sea section, more 588 00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:53,440 Speaker 3: spontaneous vaginal deliveries, less of a risk of being admitted 589 00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:57,360 Speaker 3: to a special care nursery, four times less likely in 590 00:30:57,400 --> 00:30:59,480 Speaker 3: one study to have a low birth weight child, two 591 00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:03,440 Speaker 3: times less likely to have complications, and they were significantly 592 00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:07,680 Speaker 3: more likely to initiate breastfeeding when cared for by ADULA. Right, 593 00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:12,959 Speaker 3: So there's all these like like demonstrably positive outcomes, and 594 00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:16,720 Speaker 3: then you hit upon the other thing too, that they 595 00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:21,040 Speaker 3: they make the harsh hospital environment. There's something called harsh environment. 596 00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:23,960 Speaker 4: Theory, where the bright lights. 597 00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:25,520 Speaker 3: And the people you don't know coming in and out 598 00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:27,240 Speaker 3: and treating you like a piece of meat that they 599 00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:30,080 Speaker 3: need to get this thing out of that it can 600 00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:34,960 Speaker 3: actually produce a traumatic experience. I suspect in more women 601 00:31:36,040 --> 00:31:39,560 Speaker 3: than you would think, having birth or giving birth in 602 00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:42,640 Speaker 3: a hospital is kind of traumatic, and for some women, 603 00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:47,240 Speaker 3: from what I read, it's like deeply traumatic. And that's 604 00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:51,560 Speaker 3: been a huge reason that doulas have really come into 605 00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:55,040 Speaker 3: use lately. It is because they mellow everything out for 606 00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:57,800 Speaker 3: you a lot more. And there's actually I read there's 607 00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:01,160 Speaker 3: a group of renegade dulas who are acting as midwives 608 00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:05,240 Speaker 3: out in the pot growing country of northern California. 609 00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:11,680 Speaker 1: What's the relationship there to the pot growing. 610 00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:15,400 Speaker 3: I would guess they probably do both. They grow the 611 00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:18,480 Speaker 3: pot and deliver the babies nice. I think it's kind 612 00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:20,480 Speaker 3: of like a whole back to the earth, to hell 613 00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:26,320 Speaker 3: with the man's establishment hospitals. Apparently it's illegal to give 614 00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:30,840 Speaker 3: birth like this without like a certified someone from the 615 00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:34,600 Speaker 3: medical community being there to assist in the delivery, saying. 616 00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:37,400 Speaker 3: They're saying nuts to that, which I would guess is 617 00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:41,520 Speaker 3: pretty dangerous but also illegal. And if there's anything that 618 00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:45,320 Speaker 3: screams Northern California more than dangerous and illegal, I don't know. 619 00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:51,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, if you want to use a doula, and I'm 620 00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:54,200 Speaker 2: officially endorsing this, I say, don't say don't to say doula. 621 00:32:56,800 --> 00:32:58,440 Speaker 1: Sorry, it couldn't resist on that one. 622 00:32:58,600 --> 00:32:59,280 Speaker 4: It was worth it. 623 00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:03,440 Speaker 1: You just get online. You know, the doulas are easy 624 00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:04,360 Speaker 1: to find in your area. 625 00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:07,360 Speaker 2: Do a little Google search and get a reference, of 626 00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:11,040 Speaker 2: personal reference if you can, would be great. Get online, 627 00:33:11,080 --> 00:33:13,360 Speaker 2: find a friend who has used to do they can recommend. 628 00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:16,320 Speaker 2: I mean, that's really the best way. I don't know 629 00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:20,400 Speaker 2: if I'd go on Yelp or anything like that or 630 00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:25,520 Speaker 2: Angie's List, although maybe who knows. But it's better if 631 00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:28,280 Speaker 2: a good friend says, hey, I use this doula and she's. 632 00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:28,840 Speaker 4: Great, I think. 633 00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:34,520 Speaker 3: Also, the certifying bodies have directories of certified dulas in 634 00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:35,400 Speaker 3: areas too. 635 00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:35,960 Speaker 1: Yeah. 636 00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:37,680 Speaker 2: I mean, you want it to be a good personality 637 00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:40,920 Speaker 2: match too, So you should talk to your dula on 638 00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:43,840 Speaker 2: the phone at the very least, but ideally have a 639 00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:46,560 Speaker 2: little in person meeting to make sure, like, is this 640 00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:48,600 Speaker 2: someone I want to I want to jump into the 641 00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:51,360 Speaker 2: foxhole with because they're going to be around a lot, 642 00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:53,120 Speaker 2: you know, and you have to have a good personality 643 00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:53,560 Speaker 2: match there. 644 00:33:53,600 --> 00:33:53,760 Speaker 4: Well. 645 00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:56,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, and your husband or co parent needs to like 646 00:33:56,800 --> 00:33:59,880 Speaker 3: them too. You don't want weird tension between those two 647 00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:01,280 Speaker 3: in the delivery room. 648 00:34:01,480 --> 00:34:04,560 Speaker 4: True. They need to fit into your jam. 649 00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:07,000 Speaker 3: Pretty well, yeah, or else it's just going to be 650 00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:10,560 Speaker 3: Especially if you're one of those people who can't stand conflict, 651 00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:11,800 Speaker 3: that would be awful. 652 00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:13,880 Speaker 4: To have a doula who. 653 00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:17,600 Speaker 3: Your husband or co parent or wife or whoever doesn't 654 00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:21,080 Speaker 3: like and butts heads within the delivery room. That would 655 00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:23,280 Speaker 3: just be bad. And then you have to pay them afterward. 656 00:34:23,320 --> 00:34:25,200 Speaker 3: That would just be terrible. So yeah, you want to 657 00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:27,080 Speaker 3: vet them pretty well ahead of time. 658 00:34:27,320 --> 00:34:32,399 Speaker 2: Yeah, and while you while ADULA is there to support you. 659 00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:36,120 Speaker 2: So while they may have their own opinions on what 660 00:34:36,239 --> 00:34:40,359 Speaker 2: they might do in a given situation, their childbirth philosophy 661 00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:45,400 Speaker 2: is your childbirth philosophy is a mom is what matters, right, 662 00:34:45,680 --> 00:34:47,760 Speaker 2: you know, So a good DULA will get on board 663 00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:51,759 Speaker 2: with that, or if they aren't on board with that, 664 00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:53,400 Speaker 2: then they probably shouldn't be working with you. 665 00:34:53,640 --> 00:34:55,560 Speaker 3: And yeah, I could see them being like, look, I 666 00:34:56,239 --> 00:34:58,319 Speaker 3: can recommend a couple of other people who are more 667 00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:03,520 Speaker 3: in line with what you're looking for them me, you know, yeah, instead. 668 00:35:03,120 --> 00:35:05,200 Speaker 4: Of wrong wrong wrong, This is all wrong. This is 669 00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:05,960 Speaker 4: how we're going to do it. 670 00:35:06,640 --> 00:35:07,080 Speaker 1: That's right. 671 00:35:08,160 --> 00:35:10,359 Speaker 4: You got anything else on dula's just. 672 00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:13,440 Speaker 2: This little bit on death doulas. We may have covered 673 00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:16,719 Speaker 2: this in our Jeez in our Dying episode. 674 00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:18,640 Speaker 4: Yeah, that's what I was thinking. 675 00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:20,200 Speaker 1: I feel like we've talked about it. But it is 676 00:35:20,239 --> 00:35:20,720 Speaker 1: a job. 677 00:35:21,719 --> 00:35:25,160 Speaker 2: If you want to help a family or a person 678 00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:28,560 Speaker 2: or both through end of life care, there are people 679 00:35:28,600 --> 00:35:30,440 Speaker 2: you can hire just to do that, and it's not 680 00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:35,359 Speaker 2: the same as they can work in concert with hospice care. 681 00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:38,440 Speaker 2: But it's not like a hospice nurse. It's someone just 682 00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:41,040 Speaker 2: like a birth doula who is there to really just 683 00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:44,520 Speaker 2: emotionally kind of coach you through through the dying process 684 00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:45,840 Speaker 2: with a family member. 685 00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:49,680 Speaker 3: And also to very concretely hold your hand, make. 686 00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:50,480 Speaker 4: Sure you're comfortable. 687 00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:53,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, move you around a little bit, listen to you talk, 688 00:35:53,560 --> 00:35:56,000 Speaker 3: tell you stories, whatever you're looking for to make the 689 00:35:56,000 --> 00:36:01,439 Speaker 3: whole thing better. That's right, pretty neat. Up with Doula's Yeah, 690 00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:04,839 Speaker 3: I'll put Dula's agreed. If you want to know more 691 00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:07,640 Speaker 3: about Up with Dula's this new organization that Chuck and 692 00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:10,560 Speaker 3: I just now founded, you can. 693 00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:12,040 Speaker 4: I'll just wait a little while. 694 00:36:12,040 --> 00:36:14,080 Speaker 3: We need to get to work on the website, and 695 00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:16,839 Speaker 3: in the meantime, let's listen to some listener mail. 696 00:36:19,160 --> 00:36:21,319 Speaker 2: All right, I'm going to call this flu shot clarification 697 00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:24,439 Speaker 2: because that's what the subject line says. Okay, hey guys, 698 00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:28,040 Speaker 2: Avid listener wanted to comment on the flu episode. I'm 699 00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:30,400 Speaker 2: a graduate student and a few months away from completing 700 00:36:30,440 --> 00:36:35,280 Speaker 2: my degree to becoming a physician's assistant. Well never mind, then, buddy, 701 00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:35,960 Speaker 2: I don't want to hear it. 702 00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:37,880 Speaker 1: No, I'm just kidding. 703 00:36:38,440 --> 00:36:41,360 Speaker 2: I spent a lot of time seeing patients answering questions 704 00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:43,959 Speaker 2: about things like flu shots and who should receive them. 705 00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:47,440 Speaker 2: The CDC now recommends that everyone over the age of 706 00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:50,440 Speaker 2: six months receives a flu shot, even those who are 707 00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:53,400 Speaker 2: perfectly healthy, even those who are allergic to eggs. 708 00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:55,240 Speaker 4: They're cuckoo for flu shots. 709 00:36:55,560 --> 00:36:58,480 Speaker 1: The new flu shots are now being designed to. 710 00:36:58,440 --> 00:37:05,000 Speaker 2: Be egg free, so they're egg free, gluten free, what else? 711 00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:05,719 Speaker 1: Dare free? 712 00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:08,960 Speaker 4: They contained ten percent en wah, and. 713 00:37:08,920 --> 00:37:12,279 Speaker 2: There's no evidence to suggest flu shots in recent years 714 00:37:12,280 --> 00:37:15,160 Speaker 2: could cause reaction in those allergic to eggs. 715 00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:16,280 Speaker 1: All right, that's interesting. 716 00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:18,960 Speaker 2: Did not know that He said the benefits of the 717 00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:24,680 Speaker 2: flu shots far outweighed the risk in his opinion. This, guys, Yeah, 718 00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:26,800 Speaker 2: and it sounds like it's an informed opinion at the 719 00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:27,359 Speaker 2: very least. 720 00:37:27,560 --> 00:37:27,960 Speaker 4: Sure. 721 00:37:28,920 --> 00:37:36,120 Speaker 2: So that is from Devon from phil Philadelphia, Go Eagles. 722 00:37:36,640 --> 00:37:39,200 Speaker 1: He thinks, So really, yeah, I mean why not? They're 723 00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:39,640 Speaker 1: doing great? 724 00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:43,480 Speaker 3: Okay, Well, thanks a lot, Devin. I appreciate writing in. 725 00:37:43,600 --> 00:37:45,560 Speaker 3: That was nice of you. And if you out there 726 00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:48,000 Speaker 3: want to be like Devin, you can hang out with 727 00:37:48,080 --> 00:37:52,320 Speaker 3: us on email at stuff podcast at houstuffworks dot com 728 00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:54,040 Speaker 3: and as always, joined us at our home on the web, 729 00:37:54,200 --> 00:38:01,040 Speaker 3: Stuff you Should Know dot Com. 730 00:37:58,360 --> 00:38:00,640 Speaker 1: Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. 731 00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:04,360 Speaker 2: For more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, 732 00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:07,440 Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.