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Speaker 1: Hey, everybody. It's me, W. Kamau Bell. Welcome back to

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Speaker 1: another episode of Who's With Me. This is episode 25

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Speaker 1: with activist Dominique Morgan. This is a wide-ranging conversation. Dominique

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Speaker 1: is great. If you're not familiar with Dominique's work, Dominique

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Speaker 1: is an award-winning activist, an artist, a speaker. She's got

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Speaker 1: a street named after her in her hometown of Omaha, Nebraska.

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Speaker 1: She's also a musical recording artist, but I know her

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Speaker 1: best as someone who makes Instagram videos for where she

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Speaker 1: calls balls and strikes about whatever's going on in the news,

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Speaker 1: often related to her identity as a black trans woman.

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Speaker 1: So I think that's how I stumbled across her work

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Speaker 1: on Instagram, just sort of like she wears a bonnet sometimes.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes you can't even see her whole face. She's just

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Speaker 1: like talking about what's going on in the world, again,

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Speaker 1: often as it relates to black people or specifically black

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Speaker 1: trans women. And this is a pretty layered conversation because

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Speaker 1: also earlier this year, Dominique spent 30 days in prison

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Speaker 1: for a crime that she pled guilty to, We'll get

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Speaker 1: into that later about all that. I wanted Dominique to

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Speaker 1: be able to tell her story about what happened there.

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Speaker 1: We'll get into a whole thing. It's, but you know,

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Speaker 1: we talked, we thought about maybe like cutting it or

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Speaker 1: cutting it down, but I really felt like you don't

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Speaker 1: hear people tell their own stories. Often sort of on

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Speaker 1: like all the way out and sort of from beginning

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Speaker 1: to end. I think it's important, um, to hear. And

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Speaker 1: also I think because recently I was at San Quentin prison,

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Speaker 1: I went to the San Quentin film festival, the third

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Speaker 1: annual San Quentin film festival. And so I've spent a

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Speaker 1: good amount of time around incarcerated people and people who

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Speaker 1: are looking for redemption and people who admit to what

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Speaker 1: they did and also have to move on. So I'm

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Speaker 1: always open to people who are ready to tell their story.

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Speaker 1: So anyway, we'll get to the deep end of that later.

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Speaker 1: What's going on? First of all, coffee spilled. Rock, paper, scissors,

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Speaker 1: cheese is out. Yes, it's out. I said it's out.

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Speaker 1: It's still out. It was out last week and it's

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Speaker 1: still out. But yes, you can get the book. We

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Speaker 1: did a book signing. Me, Adam, and actually my daughter, Peanut,

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Speaker 1: who's featured in the story, did a book signing at Mrs.

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Speaker 1: Dalloway's in Oakland. Peanut signed a bunch of books. We

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Speaker 1: had our first reading. I'm going to be doing a

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Speaker 1: bunch of readings at schools around Berkeley and Oakland and

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Speaker 1: the rest of the Bay Area. November 7th, I'll be

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Speaker 1: at the Oakland Public Library doing a book signing. Look

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Speaker 1: into that. Yeah, so Rock, Paper, Scissors, Cheese is out everywhere.

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Speaker 1: Get it while they're hot. Uh, Couple of dates. I

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Speaker 1: have some dates to promote, or I guess one day

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Speaker 1: I promoted the, the Oakland library. I will be at

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Speaker 1: the facing race conference in Raleigh, North Carolina on November 14th. Uh,

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Speaker 1: facing race is a conference about race. They've been doing

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Speaker 1: this for longer than we were. Then the Republicans have

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Speaker 1: been demonizing DEI actually facing race is how I sort

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Speaker 1: of came to prominence as a comedian. Cause it's a

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Speaker 1: bunch of social justice activists and, and anti-racist who come

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Speaker 1: together and talk about racism and how to dismantle it.

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Speaker 1: And they invited me in early days of my career

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Speaker 1: before I ever was on TV. And so I haven't

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Speaker 1: been for years, so I'm excited to go back now

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Speaker 1: as an OG. Tressie McMillan Cottom will be there. Lots

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Speaker 1: of great people will be there. But again, if you're

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Speaker 1: in the Raleigh, North Carolina area or want to go,

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Speaker 1: I'll be at Facing Race November 14th doing a keynote.

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Speaker 1: So please, yeah, check it out. Also, new Mahogany Mommies

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Speaker 1: are out. Whoop, whoop, whoop, whoop. Just dropped some new

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Speaker 1: Mahogany Mommies. This one's a good one. Go gaslight someone else. So, yeah,

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Speaker 1: so I'm a big fan of Mahogany Mommies. They have

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Speaker 1: lots of different messages on their political T-shirts and sweatshirts.

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Speaker 1: I'm proud to rep that company. If you go to mahoganymommies.com,

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Speaker 1: you can get a discount with the code WKB. Lots

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Speaker 1: of great sweatshirts. Please check out. It's a black woman-owned

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Speaker 1: apparel company that I've been supporting for years. But please,

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Speaker 1: the new drop is out. The new drip. Am I

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Speaker 1: too old to say the new drip? The new apparel

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Speaker 1: is out. I'll say that. Last thing to promote, I'm

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Speaker 1: in a calendar. I'm in a 2027 calendar that is

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Speaker 1: accepting pre-orders now. It is called We Gather. It was

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Speaker 1: created by the artist Jen Bloomer. Jen highlights 12 different

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Speaker 1: artists in the calendar who their work is about gathering

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Speaker 1: people together through the things they do. So Jen highlighted

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Speaker 1: me at the Berkeley Rep doing stand-up when I was

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Speaker 1: getting my stand-up back together. She came to a show.

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Speaker 1: I didn't know she was there. But she highlighted me

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Speaker 1: doing stand-up in like a 50-seat theater. And you can

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Speaker 1: see that my 12-year-old was on stage with me at

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Speaker 1: the show. And I'm drinking coffee. And these are all

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Speaker 1: sort of bird's-eye views. So you can see people sort

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Speaker 1: of all in the audience. And it's a great calendar.

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Speaker 1: And also... 10% of the proceeds go to seven different

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Speaker 1: nonprofits that are also highlighted in the calendar. The calendar

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Speaker 1: is called We Gather. It features lots of amazing artists

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Speaker 1: and activists like Valerie Carr, Andrea Gibson, my friend Kate Schatz,

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Speaker 1: who I wrote Do The Work With, Wendy McNaughton, an

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Speaker 1: amazing artist, Mia Birdsong, lots of people, 12 people, but

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Speaker 1: those are just a few of them. You can get

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Speaker 1: the calendar at radicchistudios.com. Click the link that says We

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Speaker 1: Gather Project, radicchistudios.com. We'll put the link in the thing.

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Speaker 1: And use my name, WKMALBEL10, all one word, WKMALBEL10, to

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Speaker 1: get 10% off your order. So like we do in

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Speaker 1: the Bay Area, we make some art. We also try

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Speaker 1: to do some good things to help people. Check out

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Speaker 1: the calendar. And it's time to buy calendars again. 2027

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Speaker 1: is on the way. It's less than two months to Christmas.

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Speaker 1: All right. It's time to get into business. First of all,

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Speaker 1: shout out to the Golden State Valkyries for winning their

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Speaker 1: first WNBA title at Valhalla in San Francisco. Uh, it

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Speaker 1: was Halloween night. So I had this great thing that

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Speaker 1: a lot of people did that night where we were

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Speaker 1: taking our kids trick-or-treating, but a lot of the houses

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Speaker 1: along the trick-or-treating route had TVs out. So you could

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Speaker 1: watch the game every like four or five houses, be

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Speaker 1: able to stop and queue up with the game for

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Speaker 1: a lot of the game. It didn't seem good is

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Speaker 1: the first game seven ever in, in a WNBA history

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Speaker 1: because they used to only do best of five in

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Speaker 1: the finals, but it's first game seven. But by the

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Speaker 1: time trick-or-treating was over, we went back to the main

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Speaker 1: house we were hanging out with and it was like

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Speaker 1: five minutes left in the game. And we got to

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Speaker 1: watch them win the game. It was so beautiful. Shout

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Speaker 1: out to the Golden State Valkyries. Thank you for inviting

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Speaker 1: me and my wife, Melissa, to a game. Clearly, good luck.

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Speaker 1: Just remember that next season. You know, it was great.

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Speaker 1: Gabby Williams was the MVP, clearly. Put the team on

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Speaker 1: her back. Coach Natalie dropped an F-bomb during the post-game interview.

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Speaker 1: Just very Bay Area. Very Bay Area. Yeah, shout out

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Speaker 1: to the Valkyries. who won in their second season of existence.

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Speaker 1: That doesn't happen in sports. You don't have an expansion

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Speaker 1: team that wins in their second season of existence. And

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Speaker 1: I feel like a bandwagon fan because I've only supported

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Speaker 1: them for two years, but they've only been around for

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Speaker 1: two years. So shout out to the Valkyries. And then

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Speaker 1: as I record this on Monday, November 2nd, I'm sitting

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Speaker 1: here not knowing what happened to the midterms. By the

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Speaker 1: time you get this on November 4th, you'll know more

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Speaker 1: than I do. So yay? It's probably a bunch of

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Speaker 1: yay and aww. Uh, you know, so, you know, it's,

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Speaker 1: so I've already encouraged you to vote. It doesn't, I

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Speaker 1: guess I can say vote next time there's an election,

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Speaker 1: but the thing I want to talk about, uh, as

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Speaker 1: we do this is no matter what happened in the

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Speaker 1: midterm election, one thing I've noticed that we need, I

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Speaker 1: feel like we need to focus on is we need

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Speaker 1: to get woke back. We need to get the idea

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Speaker 1: of woke back. And I know that's sort of controversial

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Speaker 1: because a lot of people demonize woken out people on the,

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Speaker 1: on the, on the right and people on the people

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Speaker 1: who say they're on the left demonize woke. And now

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Speaker 1: it's become a thing where it's just like, you know, Alexandria, Kazi,

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Speaker 1: Cortez was sort of condescending to woke point 1.0. I

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Speaker 1: saw Tim Miller from the bulwark saying like sort of

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Speaker 1: condescending to woke in an interview he was doing, like

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Speaker 1: people should be like, oh, now that we're not doing

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Speaker 1: that woke thing anymore. Meanwhile, if you look around the

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Speaker 1: country and what the Trump administration is doing, it's all

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Speaker 1: very unwoke. So I don't know why we're demonizing this thing.

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Speaker 1: that wants to push in the opposite direction of everything

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Speaker 1: president Trump and his administration doing in this country. Like,

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Speaker 1: like the Trump administration has, has, has presided over over

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Speaker 1: 300,000 black women, uh, going on unemployment and being, losing

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Speaker 1: their jobs. That's very unwoke. Uh, the Trump administration has

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Speaker 1: ice rounding up people in the streets and they, you

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Speaker 1: see that video, they hit, they hit somebody with the car.

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Speaker 1: One of the ice people hit somebody and it was

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Speaker 1: on a bicycle with their car. That's very unwoke. I

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Speaker 1: don't understand how all the things that we, associate with

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Speaker 1: justice that are firmly under the umbrella of woke which

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Speaker 1: again woke is just an expression that black people came

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Speaker 1: up with as a way to say be careful out

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Speaker 1: there it's dangerous keep your top eye open all it

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Speaker 1: meant was be intelligent pay attention think about your community

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Speaker 1: you know that's all it meant and somehow we've turned

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Speaker 1: that into a thing that like is like a democrat

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Speaker 1: talking point when really woke wants the opposite of what

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Speaker 1: trump is doing right now and i think those of

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Speaker 1: us who know that i sort of let woke go

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Speaker 1: because i was like it's not that serious the idea

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Speaker 1: will remain but i feel like whenever we let people

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Speaker 1: demonize the idea of woke, or whenever I let people

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Speaker 1: demonize the idea, I don't know if they realize it,

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Speaker 1: but what I hear when you demonize woke, whether you're

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Speaker 1: on the left or the right, is you're saying, I'll

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Speaker 1: be fine. No matter what happens, I'll be fine. You're saying,

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Speaker 1: I don't need woke. I've got the good insurance. My

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Speaker 1: retirement is fully vested. I live behind gates in my community.

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Speaker 1: I'm white with money. I'm wealthy. So you can sort

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Speaker 1: of put woke down Cause you don't need it. You

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Speaker 1: don't need woke. And, but what you're saying is that

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Speaker 1: you don't have a connection to the people who need

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Speaker 1: us to be a woke country. People are being rounded

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Speaker 1: up by ice. Uh, people who don't want us to

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Speaker 1: be in war, people who. teachers who are having their

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Speaker 1: funding cut or being told they can't tell the true

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Speaker 1: history of this country because it's DEI. You're saying that

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Speaker 1: trans kids are afraid to go to school, that you're

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Speaker 1: not with them. You're saying you're not cool with Palestinian

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Speaker 1: Americans who want to speak out about what they believe

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Speaker 1: with fear of losing their jobs or repercussions, that you're

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Speaker 1: not down with that. When you condescend to woke, you're

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Speaker 1: condescending to everything good that can possibly push back against

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Speaker 1: all the evil that's going on in this country. And

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Speaker 1: so I really want us who know that's not the

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Speaker 1: case to call these people out when they're shitting on

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Speaker 1: woke because what they're saying is, I don't need it.

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Speaker 1: I'll be fine. And it's not about you. It's about

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Speaker 1: the community. And that's why I really, I gave up

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Speaker 1: woke for a long time. Look, I know the history

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Speaker 1: of the word woke. You know, the first recorded utterance

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Speaker 1: of it is in a lead belly song. But that

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Speaker 1: idea of being woke is something that has translated throughout

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Speaker 1: black culture and black society ever since then. And even

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Speaker 1: before then, it's just not the word woke, you know,

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Speaker 1: famously the end of Spike Lee's movie school days is

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Speaker 1: Lawrence Fishburne just screaming, wake up. Like it just like,

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Speaker 1: so the idea of being woke, the idea of being

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Speaker 1: awake is a very powerful idea. And as white people do,

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Speaker 1: they've gentrified it and ruined it. And now they're tossing aside.

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Speaker 1: Now they're done with it. But the core of the

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Speaker 1: idea is justice, equity, specifically starting with black people, but

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Speaker 1: we know if we get it for black people, we

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Speaker 1: will get it for more than just black people because

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Speaker 1: that's how it works in this country. So we have

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Speaker 1: to stop letting some of these open-faced grifters, and I'm

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Speaker 1: thinking about a lot of these right-wing people who now

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Speaker 1: claim to be Democrats, sort of throw our things away

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Speaker 1: that they're done with because they don't need them, when

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Speaker 1: really we know if you're the parents of Nolan Wells,

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Speaker 1: you could use a woke justice system right now. If

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Speaker 1: you're the parents of Javits Frimprong, who was chased down

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Speaker 1: and shot and killed on his way to school in

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Speaker 1: the Bronx by, sounds like it was by maybe his

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Speaker 1: classmates or bullies, that family could use some wokeness right now.

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Speaker 1: All the people condescending to woke aren't even thinking about

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Speaker 1: like high gas prices and high grocery store prices. They're

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Speaker 1: not even thinking about that because they're like, ah, the

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Speaker 1: gas goes up and down. It doesn't affect me. I

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Speaker 1: got money. All of that is under the umbrella of woke.

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Speaker 1: We need an economy that works better for everybody. I'm

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Speaker 1: just done with people demonizing woke. On to my conversation

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Speaker 1: with Dominique Morgan. Dominique Morgan is an award-winning activist. She's

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Speaker 1: won awards from the NAACP. Again, I told you she's

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Speaker 1: got a street named after her in her hometown of Omaha, Nebraska.

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Speaker 1: She is a content creator making videos on Instagram and

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Speaker 1: online to talk about the things going on in the world. Again,

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Speaker 1: from her perspective as a black trans woman. She's funny.

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Speaker 1: She's unflinching. That's how I found her is just seeing

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Speaker 1: these videos on my timeline. I thought she was so

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Speaker 1: funny and unflinching and I learned a lot from these videos.

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Speaker 1: but the story is not just there. And I think

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Speaker 1: we have to be honest about that. Uh, so in 2024,

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Speaker 1: Morgan was indicted by the Brooklyn district attorney, uh, connected

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Speaker 1: to allegations that she misappropriated nearly a hundred thousand dollars

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Speaker 1: from the nonprofit, the Ochre project, which was under her

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Speaker 1: leadership in July, 2022. The accusation is she diverted $ 99, 000

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Speaker 1: in funds intended for incarcerated trans people to her personal

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Speaker 1: bank account. Uh, Now, you should know that Dominique Morgan

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Speaker 1: says she did not do this. She said that those

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Speaker 1: funds were used for what they were intended for. You

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Speaker 1: should also know that OKRA Project Executive Director Gabrielle Souza

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Speaker 1: has posted a video to YouTube that she posted a

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Speaker 1: couple months ago on June 5th to respond to what

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Speaker 1: Dominique says happened. So you can go check that out.

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Speaker 1: I don't want to be accused of not presenting different

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Speaker 1: sides of the case, but I did talk to Dominique.

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Speaker 1: So Dominique pled guilty. and spent 30 days in jail

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Speaker 1: earlier this year. And she talks about how she only

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Speaker 1: got 30 days in jail for what sounded like super

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Speaker 1: serious charges and did her time and is now out

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Speaker 1: here telling her story. And she's appearing on Kev on

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Speaker 1: Stage's podcast, on this podcast. She's out in the world

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Speaker 1: doing good work, I believe, for black trans women and

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Speaker 1: doing good work for the black community in general and

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Speaker 1: also pled guilty to this thing. And again, as someone

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Speaker 1: who has spent time around incarcerated people and formerly incarcerated people,

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Speaker 1: I have a lot of space for people who serve

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Speaker 1: their time and move on to try to do good

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Speaker 1: work in the world. That doesn't mean everybody has space

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Speaker 1: for them, but I've learned to have a lot of

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Speaker 1: space for that. So I did ask Dominique to tell

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Speaker 1: her story. Again, it's about 46 minutes into the podcast.

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Speaker 1: So if you want to go straight there and listen

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Speaker 1: to it, that's fine. If you want to skip when

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Speaker 1: you get there, that's fine. And I sort of let

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Speaker 1: her tell her story and just served as like, I

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Speaker 1: asked questions to sort of clarify points, but I didn't

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Speaker 1: want to, I wasn't pushing back on things. I just

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Speaker 1: wanted to hear her story. Again, you can go to

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Speaker 1: YouTube and check out the Ochre Projects version of this event.

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Speaker 1: But again, I just think it's important to, for her

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Speaker 1: to tell her story. It's also important to highlight that

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Speaker 1: she is doing good work and has been heralded for

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Speaker 1: the good work she does. So life is complicated and

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Speaker 1: I'm glad that Dominique Morgan is with me. We talk

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Speaker 1: about her identity as a black trans woman. We talk

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Speaker 1: about her incarceration. She's been incarcerated a couple of times.

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Speaker 1: We talk about her journey to come out openly as

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Speaker 1: a black trans woman. And we talk a lot about

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Speaker 1: activism and clarity of purpose. It's a really good conversation.

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Speaker 1: It's a virtual interview. So get prepared for that. But

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Speaker 1: it was a great conversation. I was glad to do it.

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Speaker 1: Enjoy my conversation with Dominique Morgan. Hey, thanks for watching

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Speaker 1: an episode of Who's With Me. If you're on YouTube,

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Speaker 1: please like and subscribe, share, hit that hype button. I

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Speaker 1: hear it makes all the difference. Please like, subscribe, share,

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Speaker 1: hit the hype button. Thank you. Welcome to Who's With Me.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for being here.

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Speaker 2: Thank you.

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Speaker 3: Thank you for having me.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I start every podcast by giving people some flowers.

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Speaker 1: I give people their flowers because I feel like we

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Speaker 1: don't hear enough about the positive things, especially those of

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Speaker 1: us who exist in social media spaces and who are

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Speaker 1: out here being loud and clear about what we believe

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Speaker 1: in the world. And you are certainly that person. So

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Speaker 1: first of all, thank you for being out and loud

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Speaker 1: and clear about what you believe in the world. and

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Speaker 1: being an educator of people like me who I think

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Speaker 1: I know some stuff, but I don't know what you know.

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Speaker 1: And you're, you're so clear about it that it, I'm

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Speaker 1: not saying it challenges me, but it sort of like

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Speaker 1: puts forth like, this is where you have to be.

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Speaker 1: If you're going to be on our side, if you're

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Speaker 1: going to be with me.

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Speaker 2: Well, thank you. I, I really try to, I try

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Speaker 2: to show people with, you know, I started off in

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Speaker 2: the classroom as an educator, as a sex educator, started

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Speaker 2: off in the clinic and that, that the label of

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Speaker 2: subject matter expert, I, I didn't realize how important that

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Speaker 2: was into the last few years. And I do my

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Speaker 2: best to either be very clear about what I know,

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Speaker 2: or I'm trying to demonstrate to people that I am

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Speaker 2: trying to figure something out. But even with that, I'm

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Speaker 2: trying to show people there's a way to learn that

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Speaker 2: you don't have to look like a doggone fool. And

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Speaker 2: if you really want to learn that things are around you,

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Speaker 2: so many people act as if their ability to acquire

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Speaker 2: knowledge is so far off. And it's like, so either

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Speaker 2: I'm showing you how to make it clear about what

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Speaker 2: you know, or I'm trying to show people how to

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Speaker 2: expand yourself without like being a burden to other people.

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Speaker 1: Preach. So I appreciate that because I find myself in

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Speaker 1: the position of like, I'm often the person who, because

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Speaker 1: I get to sit in spaces with people who have

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Speaker 1: a lot of knowledge that a lot of people don't have.

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Speaker 1: I get to sort of ask the dumb questions, as

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Speaker 1: you say, you know, the questions. So, and often I

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Speaker 1: don't know the answers either, but I find myself, I just,

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Speaker 1: as a conduit between like, sort of people who really

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Speaker 1: are fierce advocates for their beliefs that I support and people,

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Speaker 1: because I was on CNN for seven years, who were like,

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Speaker 1: what is this? And I'm sort of trying to connect those.

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Speaker 1: These ideas aren't that far away from you and I'd

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Speaker 1: be the kind to connect you there.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely. Absolutely.

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Speaker 2: Learning modality is really important when you want to engage

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Speaker 2: with folks. And that's why I always say, and I

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Speaker 2: got this from my best friend, Andrew, relationships are disruptors.

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Speaker 2: A lot of people, it's not you asking the question,

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Speaker 2: it's You're asking questions of people that you don't have

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Speaker 2: any relationship with.

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Speaker 3: So it's like you're doubly crossing the line. You know

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Speaker 3: what I'm saying?

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Speaker 2: Like that's going to the neighbor you've never spoken to

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Speaker 2: and asking for a cup of sugar.

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Speaker 3: Like, yeah, it's not wrong. You know what I'm saying?

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Speaker 2: It's not wrong that you want sugar. You need sugar

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Speaker 2: for it. And the neighbor may have it. But everything

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Speaker 2: is about building even... creating spaces where you get to

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Speaker 2: be inquisitive, especially when it's about the human experience of people.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. So you go saying good morning to your neighbor

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Speaker 1: every morning, say, how you doing? Having a conversation, learning

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Speaker 1: about their family, finding out what sports they like or

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Speaker 1: don't like. So that when you go over the cup

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Speaker 1: of sugar, you're not the neighbor, you're already in community

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Speaker 1: with them.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely.

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Speaker 2: And you may find out that they only keep brown

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Speaker 2: sugar in the house because they only bake a certain thing, right?

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Speaker 3: It's about that.

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Speaker 2: And Social media, yes, in-person relationships and connection is really important.

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Speaker 2: But I also have realized, as an old lady about

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Speaker 2: to be 45 soon, who used to poo-poo on social

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Speaker 2: media connections, if you really want to connect with people

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Speaker 2: and if you have the skill of listening, it's possible

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Speaker 2: to do that online.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. And I was trying to think, I don't know when...

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Speaker 1: you came across my timeline. I guess it was this year,

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Speaker 1: but I really, it's hard to know with social media,

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Speaker 1: but like, I just know at some point it was like,

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Speaker 1: my algorithm was like, here's another video. Here's another video

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Speaker 1: from Dominique. Like you were just a part of my

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Speaker 1: social algorithm diet. And I really appreciate how clear and

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Speaker 1: direct you are. And you just show up as you

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Speaker 1: are in the video, the bonnet on. Sometimes you're not

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Speaker 1: even in the frame. Sometimes there is makeup. Sometimes there's

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Speaker 1: no makeup. Sometimes the nails are all did. Sometimes none

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Speaker 1: of it. And you just sort of show up as

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Speaker 1: you are, which is a real challenge to the rest

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Speaker 1: of us. Because even me, who I say always looks

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Speaker 1: like a dad who's late to pick up his kids

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Speaker 1: from school, tries to make sure I'm in the right

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Speaker 1: lighting before I get on social media.

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Speaker 3: Because it's the way I show up with my friends.

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Speaker 2: So if my friends will tell you that they'll see

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Speaker 2: me warming on the red carpet and they'll FaceTime me

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Speaker 2: and the wig is off at the door. And by

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Speaker 2: the time they call me and they're laughing, I'm just like, no,

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Speaker 2: the ebb and flows of me, if I have to

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Speaker 2: be a specific version of myself to be present... I

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Speaker 2: will be present, but not as much as you may

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Speaker 2: want me to. And when I realized that the cadence

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Speaker 2: in which I was present online was going to create

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Speaker 2: the relationships with people and establish a brand that would

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Speaker 2: allow me to figure out, like, how does my identity

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Speaker 2: as an advocate exist here? I'm like, oh, you're going

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Speaker 2: to get this how you get it. And then the

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Speaker 2: byproduct of that is the kind of undercurrent is pushing

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Speaker 2: back on the perception of all Black trans women to

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Speaker 2: be seen, they have to look a certain way.

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Speaker 3: Or, or, or, or my, I.

421
00:20:18,014 --> 00:20:20,084
Speaker 2: Have to, I need to use a voice like, you know,

422
00:20:20,304 --> 00:20:22,944
Speaker 2: all these things. And it's just like, I am, I

423
00:20:23,584 --> 00:20:27,764
Speaker 2: am all of those things and I am still Dominique. And,

424
00:20:27,984 --> 00:20:30,364
Speaker 2: and what I've learned is that I've been able to

425
00:20:30,424 --> 00:20:35,004
Speaker 2: create these bonds with people, specifically Black folks, specifically Black women,

426
00:20:35,704 --> 00:20:39,404
Speaker 2: that cuts through the kind of fat of it all.

427
00:20:40,044 --> 00:20:40,224
Speaker 1: Yes.

428
00:20:40,464 --> 00:20:42,384
Speaker 2: And, and, and I don't, I don't have to diminish

429
00:20:42,444 --> 00:20:46,844
Speaker 2: myself to get closer to them and, and, even in

430
00:20:46,864 --> 00:20:50,804
Speaker 2: their journey to get closer to me, the uncomfortability, they

431
00:20:50,884 --> 00:20:54,224
Speaker 2: know they're not uncomfortable because I want them to be uncomfortable.

432
00:20:54,244 --> 00:20:57,244
Speaker 2: They're uncomfortable because life has created these systems that made

433
00:20:57,284 --> 00:21:00,784
Speaker 2: it feel like there's all these gaps between us. You

434
00:21:00,804 --> 00:21:03,844
Speaker 2: know what I'm saying? And so that consistency, that repetition,

435
00:21:03,864 --> 00:21:08,384
Speaker 2: the people's auntie title, I don't take that lightly because,

436
00:21:08,644 --> 00:21:11,044
Speaker 2: you know, I had an amazing mother, but my aunties

437
00:21:11,064 --> 00:21:14,104
Speaker 2: were essential. And so I'm just like, yo, I need

438
00:21:14,124 --> 00:21:15,464
Speaker 2: to pop up in the middle of the night when

439
00:21:15,504 --> 00:21:17,664
Speaker 2: a story about Jackie's drop off at four o'clock in

440
00:21:17,704 --> 00:21:21,934
Speaker 2: the morning and the young girls who see themselves in Deandra,

441
00:21:21,954 --> 00:21:24,594
Speaker 2: you know, in Deandra Sanders, I need to come and

442
00:21:24,614 --> 00:21:27,054
Speaker 2: speak to them because they're up thinking.

443
00:21:26,874 --> 00:21:27,474
Speaker 3: About it as well.

444
00:21:27,514 --> 00:21:29,384
Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying? And so, yeah, it, it

445
00:21:29,424 --> 00:21:32,504
Speaker 2: gives me freedom to show up, which is important.

446
00:21:32,704 --> 00:21:35,864
Speaker 1: Yeah. And also I appreciate the way that you do

447
00:21:36,044 --> 00:21:39,283
Speaker 1: your work on social media because you're, hilarious and you

448
00:21:39,324 --> 00:21:41,184
Speaker 1: don't mind getting a little dirt on you when you

449
00:21:41,244 --> 00:21:43,344
Speaker 1: say some things or, you know, you don't mind, like just,

450
00:21:43,604 --> 00:21:46,954
Speaker 1: you're not, you're not, it is not a cookie cutter, uh,

451
00:21:47,544 --> 00:21:50,594
Speaker 1: rehearsed statement. You haven't, uh, you're, you're not trying to

452
00:21:50,634 --> 00:21:54,374
Speaker 1: keep your language clean or pure or, or politically correct.

453
00:21:54,474 --> 00:21:56,793
Speaker 1: And I mean, like, it's, it's very like straight from the,

454
00:21:57,014 --> 00:21:58,154
Speaker 1: straight from the gut, you know.

455
00:21:58,314 --> 00:22:00,824
Speaker 3: Straight, straight from the gut, straight from the heart. And,

456
00:22:01,144 --> 00:22:01,954
Speaker 3: and I mean it.

457
00:22:02,384 --> 00:22:04,284
Speaker 2: And I think that for me, it, it, it lets

458
00:22:04,304 --> 00:22:07,164
Speaker 2: people know that when I get online, if I'm crying

459
00:22:07,224 --> 00:22:10,513
Speaker 2: about something, Yo, I'm feeling this with y'all. When I

460
00:22:10,774 --> 00:22:14,224
Speaker 2: am talking about my love of black people, as much

461
00:22:14,304 --> 00:22:16,504
Speaker 2: as I have a lot to say about the shenanigans

462
00:22:16,544 --> 00:22:18,564
Speaker 2: of black men, and when I get online and talk about,

463
00:22:18,924 --> 00:22:20,984
Speaker 2: I know black men are essential because of who my

464
00:22:21,024 --> 00:22:24,303
Speaker 2: father was, and I can unpack that. Every part I'm

465
00:22:24,344 --> 00:22:27,394
Speaker 2: showing you is really me. And when I cuss you out,

466
00:22:29,214 --> 00:22:32,014
Speaker 2: I mean it. Because everybody don't get cussed out, right?

467
00:22:32,034 --> 00:22:35,494
Speaker 2: I also show that. And also I think that I

468
00:22:35,574 --> 00:22:37,954
Speaker 2: try to imbue all of myself in how I show

469
00:22:38,194 --> 00:22:42,034
Speaker 2: up because regardless of what people have seen, and I've

470
00:22:42,074 --> 00:22:44,934
Speaker 2: always said like the black trans renaissance was like 2020

471
00:22:44,934 --> 00:22:49,464
Speaker 2: to like 2024, where we were everywhere. We gave everybody

472
00:22:49,504 --> 00:22:52,184
Speaker 2: an inside look at all the things. The girls had poles,

473
00:22:52,364 --> 00:22:54,444
Speaker 2: all the shenanigans. And we came on the other side

474
00:22:54,464 --> 00:22:56,624
Speaker 2: and it was like, you motherfuckers cannot use the bathroom.

475
00:22:57,104 --> 00:23:01,174
Speaker 2: So based on that, I'm just like, cool. I.

476
00:23:02,974 --> 00:23:06,513
Speaker 2: Really want to show you that I am speaking from

477
00:23:06,534 --> 00:23:11,384
Speaker 2: lived experience, but also I'm super smart. And not just like, oh,

478
00:23:11,404 --> 00:23:13,664
Speaker 2: my auntie said, my grandma said I was smart. I

479
00:23:13,684 --> 00:23:16,504
Speaker 2: went to Georgetown, I went to Stanford, because also trans

480
00:23:16,524 --> 00:23:19,324
Speaker 2: people experience life, and we grow and we expand. And

481
00:23:19,644 --> 00:23:23,504
Speaker 2: so I also speak as a subject matter expert, never

482
00:23:23,624 --> 00:23:28,914
Speaker 2: to demean folks, but to just make it clear that.

483
00:23:30,234 --> 00:23:30,814
Speaker 3: Sometimes.

484
00:23:31,604 --> 00:23:33,783
Speaker 2: Even if you don't like the messenger, we know what

485
00:23:33,804 --> 00:23:35,104
Speaker 2: the hell we're talking about.

486
00:23:35,404 --> 00:23:35,964
Speaker 1: Oh, yes.

487
00:23:36,224 --> 00:23:37,804
Speaker 3: Right? And I feel like we're in a culture right

488
00:23:37,864 --> 00:23:38,924
Speaker 3: now where people are.

489
00:23:38,944 --> 00:23:39,024
Speaker 1: I.

490
00:23:40,524 --> 00:23:42,784
Speaker 2: Can't fathom living in a community where I don't have

491
00:23:42,864 --> 00:23:44,894
Speaker 2: Wi-Fi or phone service.

492
00:23:45,074 --> 00:23:45,204
Speaker 1: Yeah.

493
00:23:45,304 --> 00:23:47,294
Speaker 3: And I was trying to find out what was happening

494
00:23:47,334 --> 00:23:48,634
Speaker 3: with the world. Because, right?

495
00:23:49,254 --> 00:23:51,354
Speaker 2: I'm from Omaha, Nebraska, born and raised. And so I

496
00:23:51,394 --> 00:23:53,974
Speaker 2: grew up with three channels. I can't imagine if that's

497
00:23:54,174 --> 00:23:55,274
Speaker 2: all I had right now.

498
00:23:55,394 --> 00:23:58,754
Speaker 3: So those of us who make up the fabric of

499
00:23:59,504 --> 00:24:00,624
Speaker 3: information carriers.

500
00:24:01,604 --> 00:24:03,404
Speaker 2: No, you got to look the devil in the face

501
00:24:03,464 --> 00:24:05,104
Speaker 2: and make it plain like my grandma used to say.

502
00:24:05,124 --> 00:24:07,824
Speaker 1: I mean, it's interesting you say the thing about having

503
00:24:07,864 --> 00:24:10,344
Speaker 1: three channels because I travel a lot for comedy, for

504
00:24:10,364 --> 00:24:13,314
Speaker 1: doing stand-up, but also doing work and filming and all

505
00:24:13,334 --> 00:24:15,394
Speaker 1: sorts of things. And I would still be sort of

506
00:24:15,434 --> 00:24:16,954
Speaker 1: blown away by it. I'd be in a hotel in

507
00:24:16,994 --> 00:24:18,774
Speaker 1: a small town in the middle of the country and

508
00:24:18,814 --> 00:24:22,574
Speaker 1: there would be commercials advertising, get ready for broadband. Like

509
00:24:22,614 --> 00:24:25,384
Speaker 1: it wasn't there yet. And I was just like, or

510
00:24:25,404 --> 00:24:29,644
Speaker 1: you'd see a commercial that was still advertising the 1-900-SEX numbers.

511
00:24:29,684 --> 00:24:34,263
Speaker 1: People are still calling. Absolutely. People don't have the access

512
00:24:34,304 --> 00:24:38,704
Speaker 1: to the internet. Absolutely. And that is still a lot

513
00:24:38,724 --> 00:24:40,894
Speaker 1: of this country, that they don't have access to the

514
00:24:40,944 --> 00:24:44,994
Speaker 1: things that we're supposed to take for granted. Or many

515
00:24:45,034 --> 00:24:46,654
Speaker 1: people take for granted. You obviously do not.

516
00:24:47,654 --> 00:24:51,174
Speaker 2: We take it for granted. We get frustrated by it. It's...

517
00:24:52,284 --> 00:24:56,034
Speaker 2: it's wonky because systems, the reason that systems thrive is

518
00:24:56,074 --> 00:24:59,554
Speaker 2: that we know that they're historically not built for the

519
00:24:59,614 --> 00:25:03,214
Speaker 2: most marginalized to thrive in those systems. But even in

520
00:25:03,294 --> 00:25:06,374
Speaker 2: the experience of being marginalized, it takes a lot to

521
00:25:06,394 --> 00:25:07,114
Speaker 2: wake up every day and.

522
00:25:07,054 --> 00:25:08,654
Speaker 3: Figure out what your life is going to be like

523
00:25:09,694 --> 00:25:11,974
Speaker 3: from scratch. You know what I'm saying? It takes a lot.

524
00:25:12,774 --> 00:25:16,074
Speaker 2: And as, as someone, again, I think the Nebraska experience

525
00:25:16,094 --> 00:25:19,144
Speaker 2: is like a lot didn't change on a daily basis. Um,

526
00:25:19,684 --> 00:25:22,584
Speaker 2: I'm the child of a Sagittarius and a Cancer, people

527
00:25:22,644 --> 00:25:26,364
Speaker 2: of habit and practice, amen. And so I grew up

528
00:25:26,384 --> 00:25:28,684
Speaker 2: with nothing. I knew what dinner was going to be.

529
00:25:29,124 --> 00:25:33,504
Speaker 2: And then I went into the prison system at 18.

530
00:25:33,504 --> 00:25:34,864
Speaker 3: And that was hard for me.

531
00:25:35,504 --> 00:25:39,394
Speaker 2: But when I look back on that experience, I'm always like,

532
00:25:39,514 --> 00:25:41,174
Speaker 2: I knew what every day was going to be. And

533
00:25:41,234 --> 00:25:44,574
Speaker 2: within the boredom, there was so much safety in it.

534
00:25:45,474 --> 00:25:48,394
Speaker 2: And so in this world, there's hell of possibility, but

535
00:25:48,414 --> 00:25:53,164
Speaker 2: within possibility is Fear, all the trappings that can come

536
00:25:53,264 --> 00:25:56,204
Speaker 2: out of taking a chance. And not everybody's prepared for that.

537
00:25:56,304 --> 00:26:01,214
Speaker 2: And when we are intentionally creating cultures where folks are misinformed, right,

538
00:26:02,094 --> 00:26:04,314
Speaker 2: that's dangerous. And so that's why I'm like, even when

539
00:26:04,334 --> 00:26:06,094
Speaker 2: I'm frustrated, even when I'm like, I'm tired of these

540
00:26:06,134 --> 00:26:06,954
Speaker 2: damn phones.

541
00:26:07,434 --> 00:26:07,634
Speaker 1: Yeah.

542
00:26:08,494 --> 00:26:11,174
Speaker 2: What I realize as someone who's watched your work, you know,

543
00:26:11,894 --> 00:26:13,574
Speaker 2: people who are not telling you what to think, but

544
00:26:13,614 --> 00:26:16,434
Speaker 2: they're putting the information in front of you are important. Right.

545
00:26:17,294 --> 00:26:17,974
Speaker 3: You know what I'm saying?

546
00:26:18,054 --> 00:26:19,924
Speaker 2: And then we got to match that with people who

547
00:26:19,964 --> 00:26:23,864
Speaker 2: are supporting people in strengthening and refining their discernment and

548
00:26:23,884 --> 00:26:25,523
Speaker 2: their ability to aggregate data.

549
00:26:26,024 --> 00:26:27,043
Speaker 3: But that's what I try to be.

550
00:26:27,124 --> 00:26:28,644
Speaker 2: I try to be the one that like, I try

551
00:26:28,684 --> 00:26:30,824
Speaker 2: to be like the old country buffet or good shonies

552
00:26:30,944 --> 00:26:32,664
Speaker 2: in the 80s, huh?

553
00:26:33,024 --> 00:26:34,644
Speaker 3: I'm like, put all the things in front of you.

554
00:26:35,124 --> 00:26:36,684
Speaker 2: And I will walk around and be like, you know,

555
00:26:36,704 --> 00:26:38,434
Speaker 2: you may want to start with a protein, but if

556
00:26:38,464 --> 00:26:40,334
Speaker 2: you want to do all desserts, God bless you.

557
00:26:40,814 --> 00:26:42,454
Speaker 3: But you know what I'm saying? But I'm here for you.

558
00:26:42,474 --> 00:26:44,454
Speaker 3: I'm here to facilitate.

559
00:26:45,494 --> 00:26:47,934
Speaker 1: So what is it in the water in Omaha, Nebraska

560
00:26:47,974 --> 00:26:53,114
Speaker 1: that breeds people with complicated backstories of maybe of some

561
00:26:53,194 --> 00:26:57,204
Speaker 1: imperfection and some incarceration? Black folks, thinking about Malcolm X

562
00:26:57,244 --> 00:26:59,424
Speaker 1: is what I'm thinking about. I'm thinking about the fact

563
00:26:59,464 --> 00:27:03,064
Speaker 1: that that's another black person from Omaha who lived a

564
00:27:03,104 --> 00:27:04,844
Speaker 1: lot of life and did a lot of things and

565
00:27:04,864 --> 00:27:06,654
Speaker 1: then came through with some truth on the other side.

566
00:27:09,184 --> 00:27:10,864
Speaker 3: Shout out to my bro Nathan.

567
00:27:10,904 --> 00:27:14,324
Speaker 2: There was four or five years ago, they commissioned him

568
00:27:14,424 --> 00:27:19,774
Speaker 2: to build three statues of influential people from Nebraska. And

569
00:27:20,294 --> 00:27:24,874
Speaker 2: it was Malcolm X, Senator Annie Chambers, and myself. And

570
00:27:25,714 --> 00:27:28,874
Speaker 2: I think about my sister, Simone Sanders. I think about

571
00:27:31,014 --> 00:27:34,384
Speaker 2: Kathy Hughes. I think the thing about the Midwest, I

572
00:27:34,404 --> 00:27:40,724
Speaker 2: think Nebraska especially, is that... There is a strong Black community,

573
00:27:41,684 --> 00:27:44,204
Speaker 2: but our ability to kind of touch the pulse of

574
00:27:44,264 --> 00:27:50,454
Speaker 2: what Black culture feels like unfiltered is difficult. And maybe

575
00:27:50,474 --> 00:27:52,334
Speaker 2: there are people now that have social media and things,

576
00:27:52,354 --> 00:27:55,494
Speaker 2: but I would even say that is still a parody.

577
00:27:55,534 --> 00:27:57,884
Speaker 2: It's a performative version of it because until you touch

578
00:27:57,904 --> 00:28:00,624
Speaker 2: it yourself. Folks in Kansas City... You know what I'm saying?

579
00:28:00,664 --> 00:28:02,774
Speaker 2: Like it's pretty much the South. If you got a

580
00:28:02,814 --> 00:28:04,894
Speaker 2: Waffle House, that's black culture. We can't get no Waffle

581
00:28:04,914 --> 00:28:07,354
Speaker 2: House in Nebraska. We above the Mason Dixie. You understand me?

582
00:28:07,814 --> 00:28:10,074
Speaker 3: So it's just like, you know, Chicago, you look at

583
00:28:10,094 --> 00:28:10,694
Speaker 3: some of these St.

584
00:28:10,754 --> 00:28:13,594
Speaker 2: Louis, Detroit, you can be like, oh, if you grew

585
00:28:13,654 --> 00:28:15,444
Speaker 2: up in the Clarks, your sisters were singing down the street.

586
00:28:15,454 --> 00:28:17,984
Speaker 2: It don't matter how North you was. You felt that.

587
00:28:18,784 --> 00:28:22,824
Speaker 2: Where we're from, we're experiencing the oppression of blackness. We

588
00:28:22,884 --> 00:28:25,144
Speaker 2: know we're black. We know the power in our black

589
00:28:25,184 --> 00:28:29,524
Speaker 2: experience is, But there's not many opportunities to turn the

590
00:28:29,594 --> 00:28:34,214
Speaker 2: corner and see that brilliance really minted and respected. The

591
00:28:34,234 --> 00:28:37,074
Speaker 2: Malcolm X Center just got its first money to build

592
00:28:37,214 --> 00:28:38,814
Speaker 2: a real building a few years ago.

593
00:28:39,014 --> 00:28:39,414
Speaker 3: Wow.

594
00:28:40,444 --> 00:28:44,584
Speaker 2: It was a small, small shack that ran on little

595
00:28:44,664 --> 00:28:45,224
Speaker 2: to no money.

596
00:28:46,624 --> 00:28:48,444
Speaker 1: And if Malcolm X had been born in Harlem, that

597
00:28:48,464 --> 00:28:52,464
Speaker 1: thing would be celebrating its 60th anniversary. My God.

598
00:28:52,964 --> 00:28:53,524
Speaker 3: You understand me?

599
00:28:53,544 --> 00:28:55,324
Speaker 2: There are people that don't know Malcolm X is born

600
00:28:55,364 --> 00:28:58,764
Speaker 2: in Omaha, Nebraska. And so it's just those sort of

601
00:28:58,824 --> 00:29:02,074
Speaker 2: things where, and I think if you get a connection

602
00:29:02,094 --> 00:29:05,594
Speaker 2: to the Black experience, understand Black culture, you'll have an

603
00:29:05,654 --> 00:29:08,194
Speaker 2: understanding of how systemic oppression happens and you'll kind of

604
00:29:08,214 --> 00:29:11,114
Speaker 2: see it coming. I think for me, I was so

605
00:29:11,154 --> 00:29:15,174
Speaker 2: focused on thinking that experiencing poverty and these things that

606
00:29:15,194 --> 00:29:18,714
Speaker 2: were impacting my body were more about the Black people

607
00:29:18,774 --> 00:29:20,674
Speaker 2: around me not doing good enough. I was so wrapped

608
00:29:20,714 --> 00:29:25,574
Speaker 2: in anti-Blackness that my actions caused me to separate myself

609
00:29:25,614 --> 00:29:27,294
Speaker 2: from community that would have been there to support me

610
00:29:27,314 --> 00:29:30,834
Speaker 2: in a deeper way at 18. And even as I

611
00:29:30,894 --> 00:29:34,474
Speaker 2: traversed incarceration, I was incarcerated from the age of 18

612
00:29:34,474 --> 00:29:38,564
Speaker 2: to 27. I spent 18 months in solitary confinement. Six

613
00:29:38,604 --> 00:29:41,024
Speaker 2: months of that, I was actually housed on death row

614
00:29:41,044 --> 00:29:45,464
Speaker 2: in Nebraska. due to the overcrowding. Nebraska's prison system has

615
00:29:45,484 --> 00:29:50,454
Speaker 2: been overcrowded for over 25 years at a critical space

616
00:29:50,514 --> 00:29:54,424
Speaker 2: where the feds should, we've overreached the percentage that the

617
00:29:54,464 --> 00:29:57,004
Speaker 2: federal government has put in place. And they just, they always,

618
00:29:57,024 --> 00:29:58,364
Speaker 2: you know, let a few people go to kind of

619
00:29:58,384 --> 00:30:01,624
Speaker 2: hit those numbers, but it's easy to get trapped in

620
00:30:01,664 --> 00:30:05,574
Speaker 2: the systems that they build for the Black experience. when

621
00:30:05,614 --> 00:30:08,484
Speaker 2: they also don't give you the, the, the, at least

622
00:30:08,504 --> 00:30:11,804
Speaker 2: the one-on-one on like what black culture looked like. I, again,

623
00:30:11,864 --> 00:30:12,664
Speaker 2: I grew up not even.

624
00:30:12,544 --> 00:30:13,334
Speaker 3: Thinking about Malcolm X.

625
00:30:13,324 --> 00:30:13,544
Speaker 1: Yeah.

626
00:30:14,024 --> 00:30:16,444
Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying? Like we were, I, in

627
00:30:16,464 --> 00:30:19,274
Speaker 2: the third grade, I played Martin Luther King in the play.

628
00:30:20,174 --> 00:30:23,094
Speaker 2: It makes like two blocks from Malcolm X's birthplace.

629
00:30:23,114 --> 00:30:23,314
Speaker 3: Right.

630
00:30:23,634 --> 00:30:25,454
Speaker 2: Like those sorts of things where it's like, you don't

631
00:30:25,494 --> 00:30:28,754
Speaker 2: want to be connected to it. So, but also my hometown,

632
00:30:29,184 --> 00:30:32,484
Speaker 2: North Omaha, Nebraska, because the North part is important. um

633
00:30:32,634 --> 00:30:34,954
Speaker 2: it's it's predominantly black i.

634
00:30:34,694 --> 00:30:35,914
Speaker 1: Could tell it was black by the way you said

635
00:30:36,114 --> 00:30:37,234
Speaker 1: north yes.

636
00:30:36,974 --> 00:30:40,034
Speaker 2: Indeed that yes it is that is where dominique morgan

637
00:30:40,074 --> 00:30:42,314
Speaker 2: street exists the street i grew up on is now

638
00:30:42,354 --> 00:30:46,324
Speaker 2: named after me but it also makes you scrappy because

639
00:30:47,064 --> 00:30:48,824
Speaker 2: anything you wanted you had to really go get it

640
00:30:48,844 --> 00:30:51,404
Speaker 2: you know what i'm saying and not uh i grew

641
00:30:51,424 --> 00:30:52,864
Speaker 2: up in harlem i had to i had to pump

642
00:30:52,904 --> 00:30:54,654
Speaker 2: to the other side to the other borough i understand

643
00:30:54,674 --> 00:30:57,074
Speaker 2: the kids of the big city i mean as in

644
00:30:58,494 --> 00:30:59,854
Speaker 2: I had to, I had to drive to Kansas city

645
00:30:59,874 --> 00:31:01,994
Speaker 2: to get like the destiny shout album when it came out.

646
00:31:02,194 --> 00:31:02,934
Speaker 3: You know what I'm saying?

647
00:31:02,954 --> 00:31:06,394
Speaker 2: I mean, I can't fathom what the HBCU experience would have,

648
00:31:06,414 --> 00:31:07,674
Speaker 2: you know what I'm saying? Would it look like those

649
00:31:07,714 --> 00:31:10,444
Speaker 2: sorts of things that now living in Atlanta for the

650
00:31:10,464 --> 00:31:14,324
Speaker 2: last four years, I know really create a rich journey

651
00:31:14,484 --> 00:31:16,804
Speaker 2: in your blackness, the type of journey that we deserve

652
00:31:16,824 --> 00:31:18,204
Speaker 2: in my opinion. Yeah.

653
00:31:18,704 --> 00:31:21,474
Speaker 1: So I live in Oakland, California. Uh, I got, I

654
00:31:21,494 --> 00:31:24,534
Speaker 1: have three daughters, uh, just, and I don't know, I

655
00:31:24,574 --> 00:31:25,514
Speaker 1: know you say you're a fan of my work, but

656
00:31:25,534 --> 00:31:26,734
Speaker 1: I just feel like I have to be clear when

657
00:31:26,774 --> 00:31:29,114
Speaker 1: I talk. My wife is white, so my daughters identify

658
00:31:29,134 --> 00:31:31,674
Speaker 1: as black, but they're also mixed race. And one of

659
00:31:31,714 --> 00:31:34,844
Speaker 1: the reasons why we were so sure that we wanted to, like,

660
00:31:34,864 --> 00:31:37,404
Speaker 1: and I've lived in the Bay Area since 97, but

661
00:31:37,444 --> 00:31:40,524
Speaker 1: like knowing that my daughters are being raised in Oakland,

662
00:31:40,664 --> 00:31:43,404
Speaker 1: a part of that was about being connected to their blackness,

663
00:31:44,144 --> 00:31:45,744
Speaker 1: you know? And Oakland is like one of those cities

664
00:31:45,764 --> 00:31:49,964
Speaker 1: like Chicago, Harlem, you know, Atlanta, that there is a,

665
00:31:50,274 --> 00:31:52,214
Speaker 1: That even though gentrification has wiped out a lot of

666
00:31:52,254 --> 00:31:56,044
Speaker 1: black folks here, there's still the roots of blackness here.

667
00:31:56,104 --> 00:31:58,544
Speaker 1: There's still Black Panthers who are around here living here

668
00:31:58,564 --> 00:32:01,744
Speaker 1: in Oakland. They have access to blackness in an unfiltered

669
00:32:01,784 --> 00:32:04,224
Speaker 1: way that they would not have if we even moved

670
00:32:04,244 --> 00:32:06,024
Speaker 1: them to the suburbs of Oakland.

671
00:32:06,084 --> 00:32:09,914
Speaker 2: You know what I mean? Yeah. It's like those things

672
00:32:09,974 --> 00:32:13,214
Speaker 2: feed your epistemology. They feed your way of knowing. And

673
00:32:13,474 --> 00:32:16,454
Speaker 2: I kind of realized like this idea of epistemology, the

674
00:32:16,494 --> 00:32:18,094
Speaker 2: things we know that we really don't know how we

675
00:32:18,154 --> 00:32:20,874
Speaker 2: know them. but it also will become a part like

676
00:32:20,894 --> 00:32:24,864
Speaker 2: your GPS, your compass in life. You have to be

677
00:32:24,904 --> 00:32:27,744
Speaker 2: intentional about feeding it once you realize it exists because

678
00:32:28,164 --> 00:32:30,404
Speaker 2: if you don't, there'll be things that will be guiding

679
00:32:30,444 --> 00:32:32,644
Speaker 2: your life every day and you won't know where they

680
00:32:32,684 --> 00:32:34,724
Speaker 2: came from, but you will fight, you will scream, you

681
00:32:34,744 --> 00:32:37,014
Speaker 2: will holler behind them, which is really what most people

682
00:32:37,034 --> 00:32:37,774
Speaker 2: are doing online.

683
00:32:38,214 --> 00:32:38,434
Speaker 1: Yes.

684
00:32:38,614 --> 00:32:41,894
Speaker 2: They're fighting about beliefs and ideas that they haven't interrogated

685
00:32:41,914 --> 00:32:45,114
Speaker 2: for themselves, right? They haven't unpacked for themselves, but they're

686
00:32:45,154 --> 00:32:47,334
Speaker 2: going to go balls to the wall. And sometimes it's like,

687
00:32:47,724 --> 00:32:49,604
Speaker 2: My mama told me about this. My grandma told me

688
00:32:49,644 --> 00:32:53,284
Speaker 2: about this, all the things, which is cool. But I

689
00:32:53,324 --> 00:32:55,724
Speaker 2: want to say that you can, you ain't got to

690
00:32:55,744 --> 00:32:58,364
Speaker 2: be disrespectful, but you can also challenge those things and.

691
00:32:58,354 --> 00:33:00,924
Speaker 3: See if they still fit for you, if.

692
00:33:00,894 --> 00:33:04,294
Speaker 2: They're going to be the foundation for how you navigate

693
00:33:04,334 --> 00:33:04,814
Speaker 2: the world.

694
00:33:05,194 --> 00:33:05,474
Speaker 1: Yes.

695
00:33:05,534 --> 00:33:06,074
Speaker 3: You know? Yes.

696
00:33:06,434 --> 00:33:09,434
Speaker 1: Yeah. Ginger ale may cure a few things, but sometimes

697
00:33:09,474 --> 00:33:10,354
Speaker 1: you need to go to the doctor.

698
00:33:10,854 --> 00:33:12,714
Speaker 3: Sometimes you got to go see them people.

699
00:33:12,734 --> 00:33:13,434
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly.

700
00:33:13,514 --> 00:33:15,394
Speaker 3: And it's all right. You know what I'm saying? Like,

701
00:33:15,494 --> 00:33:16,534
Speaker 3: it's so important.

702
00:33:16,674 --> 00:33:20,644
Speaker 2: And I think that when we exist in our Blackness

703
00:33:20,844 --> 00:33:26,294
Speaker 2: and a multitude of marginalized identities, it's easy to lose

704
00:33:26,354 --> 00:33:30,514
Speaker 2: our connection to the Black experience in the way you

705
00:33:30,614 --> 00:33:34,834
Speaker 2: can when it's like a predominant focus, right? I'm never,

706
00:33:35,434 --> 00:33:37,974
Speaker 2: regardless of what some people feel, I just did Kevon

707
00:33:37,994 --> 00:33:39,994
Speaker 2: Sage's podcast with Angel.

708
00:33:40,014 --> 00:33:40,604
Speaker 1: I saw, I saw.

709
00:33:40,904 --> 00:33:42,504
Speaker 2: And there are people who, we knew people were going

710
00:33:42,524 --> 00:33:44,724
Speaker 2: to be mad, but for me, it was like, as

711
00:33:44,784 --> 00:33:48,424
Speaker 2: a Black creative, it's like, Being on Kev's show is

712
00:33:48,444 --> 00:33:49,564
Speaker 2: like the queen knighting you.

713
00:33:49,844 --> 00:33:50,404
Speaker 3: No shame.

714
00:33:50,804 --> 00:33:53,464
Speaker 1: No, no, no. I know where I exist in this podcast.

715
00:33:53,484 --> 00:33:55,514
Speaker 1: You understand me? In this comedy universe.

716
00:33:55,674 --> 00:33:57,934
Speaker 3: For real. He is, in.

717
00:33:57,894 --> 00:34:01,554
Speaker 2: Regards to people who are building and executing, and for

718
00:34:01,614 --> 00:34:05,664
Speaker 2: him to see... it, it meant a lot for me

719
00:34:06,104 --> 00:34:08,204
Speaker 2: because just as much as I am trans, I am black.

720
00:34:08,344 --> 00:34:10,604
Speaker 2: It's the, it's the type of moment where, you know,

721
00:34:10,844 --> 00:34:12,323
Speaker 2: I would, if my mom and dad would have been like,

722
00:34:12,824 --> 00:34:15,004
Speaker 2: guess what I'm about to, guess what I'm about to do.

723
00:34:15,163 --> 00:34:16,144
Speaker 3: Guess what I'm about to see.

724
00:34:16,964 --> 00:34:19,324
Speaker 2: And I just think that brings richness in the black

725
00:34:19,393 --> 00:34:20,653
Speaker 2: experience because they're going to give.

726
00:34:20,594 --> 00:34:21,033
Speaker 1: Us the hell.

727
00:34:21,053 --> 00:34:22,713
Speaker 2: We're going to get the hell.

728
00:34:22,774 --> 00:34:23,814
Speaker 3: That's going to come to us.

729
00:34:24,594 --> 00:34:26,674
Speaker 2: The joy, the richness are the things we got to

730
00:34:26,714 --> 00:34:29,704
Speaker 2: work for. And, When you grow up with a skill

731
00:34:29,743 --> 00:34:32,004
Speaker 2: of connecting to your culture in a way that really

732
00:34:32,143 --> 00:34:36,154
Speaker 2: affirms you, the Black folks I see who are thriving,

733
00:34:36,513 --> 00:34:38,794
Speaker 2: they have that skill down pat.

734
00:34:39,174 --> 00:34:42,173
Speaker 1: Yes. Well, let me say this. I certainly have much

735
00:34:42,243 --> 00:34:45,854
Speaker 1: admiration for Kev. Kev on stage. And when I saw

736
00:34:45,873 --> 00:34:47,593
Speaker 1: that you did his podcast, I was like, oh, and

737
00:34:47,614 --> 00:34:49,754
Speaker 1: she's doing mine too. I felt like better about myself.

738
00:34:51,174 --> 00:34:53,024
Speaker 2: I literally told my manager, I was like, how long

739
00:34:53,044 --> 00:34:55,404
Speaker 2: have you been sitting on this? And it was very casual.

740
00:34:55,424 --> 00:34:57,544
Speaker 2: It was like a text message. Then they know that

741
00:34:57,584 --> 00:35:01,964
Speaker 2: I don't always look at text messages. I was like, absolutely.

742
00:35:02,163 --> 00:35:02,444
Speaker 3: Yeah.

743
00:35:02,864 --> 00:35:04,613
Speaker 1: And also it speaks to, I know Kev has talked

744
00:35:04,654 --> 00:35:07,334
Speaker 1: a lot. He's a man of faith and a Christian

745
00:35:07,393 --> 00:35:11,124
Speaker 1: and and gets pushback whenever he talks about the LGBTQ

746
00:35:11,143 --> 00:35:14,304
Speaker 1: community and how he accepts the LGBTQ community and the

747
00:35:14,324 --> 00:35:16,834
Speaker 1: fact that he would have you on because you're not

748
00:35:16,873 --> 00:35:18,013
Speaker 1: going to go in there and sort of do it

749
00:35:18,033 --> 00:35:20,573
Speaker 1: in a quiet, sort of reserved way yourself. You're going

750
00:35:20,594 --> 00:35:21,334
Speaker 1: to go all out.

751
00:35:22,094 --> 00:35:22,834
Speaker 3: I'm going to go all out.

752
00:35:22,893 --> 00:35:25,473
Speaker 2: And I also, the point, the also thing is I'm

753
00:35:25,493 --> 00:35:27,254
Speaker 2: going to go all out about my God because I

754
00:35:27,614 --> 00:35:29,893
Speaker 2: have a strong faith, right? And I feel like that's in,

755
00:35:30,433 --> 00:35:34,993
Speaker 2: that was, again, that thing was for me. I was like,

756
00:35:35,013 --> 00:35:37,634
Speaker 2: if nobody ever saw this, like I'm like, The conversation

757
00:35:37,674 --> 00:35:42,643
Speaker 2: was great. I saw Kev's special the night before, The

758
00:35:42,663 --> 00:35:45,323
Speaker 2: Grief Sucks. And, you know, that read as someone who...

759
00:35:45,283 --> 00:35:48,064
Speaker 2: I buried both of my parents before I was 27.

760
00:35:48,064 --> 00:35:50,703
Speaker 2: You know, so it was just important. But to sit

761
00:35:50,723 --> 00:35:53,723
Speaker 2: there with Kevin Angel, and then the message I've received.

762
00:35:54,703 --> 00:35:57,683
Speaker 2: There are so many Black folks right now who are like, I.

763
00:35:57,643 --> 00:36:00,054
Speaker 3: Don't know what we're supposed to be doing.

764
00:36:00,774 --> 00:36:03,354
Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying? Like, the conversation of fighting,

765
00:36:03,953 --> 00:36:06,613
Speaker 2: all those things, people are just like, child, I... I

766
00:36:06,654 --> 00:36:09,274
Speaker 2: can't even afford a fried egg sandwich, you know? Like,

767
00:36:09,294 --> 00:36:11,334
Speaker 2: what you want me to do? And I wanted to

768
00:36:11,373 --> 00:36:12,913
Speaker 2: go in there and say that, like, I've been in

769
00:36:12,953 --> 00:36:15,974
Speaker 2: the darkest spaces. I've literally been buried under the prison.

770
00:36:15,993 --> 00:36:19,554
Speaker 2: And I told the story about when I was housed

771
00:36:19,594 --> 00:36:23,533
Speaker 2: on death row. I didn't, you know, I was 21.

772
00:36:23,513 --> 00:36:27,093
Speaker 2: I didn't know a lot about the guys on the

773
00:36:27,134 --> 00:36:29,294
Speaker 2: housing unit. And I just knew that, like, there was

774
00:36:29,314 --> 00:36:31,274
Speaker 2: a guy, Ray, on the left side and a guy, John,

775
00:36:31,354 --> 00:36:34,174
Speaker 2: on the right side of me. And I told the

776
00:36:34,223 --> 00:36:37,513
Speaker 2: story of, you know, we were in the basement, like

777
00:36:37,533 --> 00:36:39,013
Speaker 2: we were in the lower part of the prison. And

778
00:36:39,074 --> 00:36:40,844
Speaker 2: so like, if it would rain and things like that,

779
00:36:40,884 --> 00:36:43,504
Speaker 2: my window, I had one small window, it would get covered.

780
00:36:43,944 --> 00:36:46,104
Speaker 2: And so then that would make my room like very dark.

781
00:36:46,283 --> 00:36:49,163
Speaker 2: And so being in that room 24 seven, they, they

782
00:36:49,183 --> 00:36:52,363
Speaker 2: let us shower like three times a week at that age,

783
00:36:52,404 --> 00:36:54,803
Speaker 2: you know, like it was, you know, depression was constantly

784
00:36:54,844 --> 00:36:57,223
Speaker 2: kind of at my door and John would walk up

785
00:36:57,283 --> 00:36:59,323
Speaker 2: cause they could go outside. John would go outside and

786
00:36:59,344 --> 00:37:00,893
Speaker 2: clean my window. He would wake me up and make

787
00:37:00,913 --> 00:37:02,893
Speaker 2: sure I didn't miss meals and, you know, give me

788
00:37:02,973 --> 00:37:05,284
Speaker 2: paper to write because I couldn't even afford paper. And,

789
00:37:05,723 --> 00:37:08,703
Speaker 2: And one day a CO came down and was like,

790
00:37:08,723 --> 00:37:10,183
Speaker 2: you need to be careful with him.

791
00:37:10,223 --> 00:37:11,304
Speaker 3: And I was like, why?

792
00:37:11,344 --> 00:37:13,164
Speaker 2: Like, I mean, everybody down here on death row, like

793
00:37:13,203 --> 00:37:16,283
Speaker 2: they've done something, but why him? And come to find

794
00:37:16,344 --> 00:37:18,403
Speaker 2: out that John was John Lauder, one of the two

795
00:37:18,464 --> 00:37:22,504
Speaker 2: people who had killed Brandon Tina. There's a movie called

796
00:37:22,524 --> 00:37:24,984
Speaker 2: Boys Don't Cry. Hilary Swank won an Oscar for it.

797
00:37:25,134 --> 00:37:28,334
Speaker 2: And before little old Dominique Morgan came along, Brandon's story

798
00:37:28,373 --> 00:37:31,194
Speaker 2: was the most known trans story from the state of Nebraska.

799
00:37:31,214 --> 00:37:31,294
Speaker 1: Yeah.

800
00:37:32,473 --> 00:37:35,913
Speaker 2: And, but I'm meeting this man 20, 25 years later.

801
00:37:36,413 --> 00:37:36,734
Speaker 3: Yes.

802
00:37:37,294 --> 00:37:39,413
Speaker 2: And fast forward to when I'm running Black and Pink,

803
00:37:39,453 --> 00:37:41,893
Speaker 2: we send Christmas gifts into everybody. And the Department of

804
00:37:41,913 --> 00:37:43,834
Speaker 2: Corrections is like, well, we don't want to send them

805
00:37:43,854 --> 00:37:44,993
Speaker 2: to the Macs and we don't want to send them

806
00:37:45,013 --> 00:37:46,453
Speaker 2: to death row. And I'm like, we're sending them to

807
00:37:46,574 --> 00:37:50,393
Speaker 2: everybody if we're sending them. And we sent them in.

808
00:37:50,654 --> 00:37:55,093
Speaker 2: And the next day, some representatives of John, you know,

809
00:37:55,674 --> 00:37:58,643
Speaker 2: tweeted this letter of thanks to me and Black and Pink. Now,

810
00:37:58,803 --> 00:38:00,883
Speaker 2: at that point, this is like 30 years after this

811
00:38:00,924 --> 00:38:02,803
Speaker 2: man has done this very terrible thing.

812
00:38:02,824 --> 00:38:02,894
Speaker 1: Yes.

813
00:38:03,864 --> 00:38:05,683
Speaker 2: But no one should be known by the worst thing

814
00:38:05,703 --> 00:38:10,544
Speaker 2: they've ever done. And my experience at meeting him, that

815
00:38:10,604 --> 00:38:12,223
Speaker 2: was a reason I was meant to meet this man.

816
00:38:12,243 --> 00:38:13,803
Speaker 2: And then when I built Light in the House, the

817
00:38:13,844 --> 00:38:16,784
Speaker 2: first housing program I opened, we have an entire healing

818
00:38:16,824 --> 00:38:19,524
Speaker 2: room that's dedicated to Brandon, where his picture is at,

819
00:38:19,924 --> 00:38:23,274
Speaker 2: and where every person who comes to the space learns

820
00:38:23,314 --> 00:38:26,774
Speaker 2: about him. And so I always have full circle moments.

821
00:38:27,574 --> 00:38:30,513
Speaker 2: I always have full circle moments. You were doing work

822
00:38:30,594 --> 00:38:32,653
Speaker 2: when I was at Black and Pink looking at incarceration

823
00:38:32,674 --> 00:38:34,334
Speaker 2: in ways that no one else was talking about it.

824
00:38:34,774 --> 00:38:38,244
Speaker 2: I was having to explain abolition to white folks in

825
00:38:38,263 --> 00:38:41,283
Speaker 2: Nebraska running Black and Pink National. I could show them

826
00:38:41,364 --> 00:38:44,924
Speaker 2: your work and be like, yo, this is because you

827
00:38:46,584 --> 00:38:50,163
Speaker 2: need various conduits, right? And the universe always just brings

828
00:38:50,203 --> 00:38:54,574
Speaker 2: me back around. And that's why I... I said this

829
00:38:54,614 --> 00:38:57,383
Speaker 2: yesterday because some of the comments on those videos, oh,

830
00:38:57,623 --> 00:38:59,244
Speaker 2: and you know, I'll go in and let have.

831
00:38:59,424 --> 00:38:59,724
Speaker 1: Yeah.

832
00:39:00,243 --> 00:39:03,283
Speaker 2: And I'm like, I should not expect to always feel

833
00:39:03,344 --> 00:39:08,673
Speaker 2: comfortable holding space for my people because of the level

834
00:39:08,714 --> 00:39:11,573
Speaker 2: of privilege I have. I navigate the world with a

835
00:39:11,634 --> 00:39:14,114
Speaker 2: great deal of, you know, there's systems that want to

836
00:39:14,154 --> 00:39:15,014
Speaker 2: get on my body.

837
00:39:15,373 --> 00:39:15,593
Speaker 3: Yeah.

838
00:39:16,194 --> 00:39:18,553
Speaker 2: But also with the, I navigate the world as a

839
00:39:18,614 --> 00:39:23,304
Speaker 2: black trans woman who's 44 years old. With the access

840
00:39:23,364 --> 00:39:26,933
Speaker 2: I have and the privilege I have to be an example,

841
00:39:26,973 --> 00:39:29,633
Speaker 2: to challenge people, to push back. Dominique, why do you

842
00:39:29,654 --> 00:39:31,694
Speaker 2: think that everything is going to have to be easy?

843
00:39:32,814 --> 00:39:35,654
Speaker 2: You know, and once I sat with that yesterday, it

844
00:39:35,694 --> 00:39:37,674
Speaker 2: allowed me to divest and just be like, and I'm

845
00:39:37,694 --> 00:39:39,653
Speaker 2: going to continue to show up where I feel like

846
00:39:40,094 --> 00:39:43,183
Speaker 2: my gut, my. my higher power tells me to you

847
00:39:43,203 --> 00:39:44,703
Speaker 2: know what I mean because I could be anywhere doing

848
00:39:44,723 --> 00:39:47,304
Speaker 2: because people ask you to you know Dominique come outside

849
00:39:47,324 --> 00:39:48,303
Speaker 2: the car why do you know what I'm saying like

850
00:39:48,344 --> 00:39:51,014
Speaker 2: if that's what it's about it's not it's about sharing

851
00:39:51,053 --> 00:39:54,854
Speaker 2: space with people and recognizing that people create these incredible

852
00:39:54,893 --> 00:39:58,593
Speaker 2: spaces where people come to you all for who you

853
00:39:58,794 --> 00:40:01,504
Speaker 2: are And then I get the chance to come and share.

854
00:40:01,924 --> 00:40:05,263
Speaker 2: And that seems simple, but that's literally radical activism in 2026.

855
00:40:05,243 --> 00:40:05,383
Speaker 1: Yes.

856
00:40:05,404 --> 00:40:05,474
Speaker 3: Yes.

857
00:40:25,584 --> 00:40:27,323
Speaker 1: Well, you said a lot in there. And so I

858
00:40:27,344 --> 00:40:30,623
Speaker 1: have a lot of things I want to say. One

859
00:40:30,643 --> 00:40:32,504
Speaker 1: thing I want to say, you talked about solitary confinement.

860
00:40:32,544 --> 00:40:34,344
Speaker 1: I just think it can't be said enough that solitary

861
00:40:34,384 --> 00:40:38,033
Speaker 1: confinement has been studied by many reputable sources as being

862
00:40:38,283 --> 00:40:42,854
Speaker 1: inhumanly cruel and a violation of people's human rights. And

863
00:40:42,913 --> 00:40:44,893
Speaker 1: it is a thing that is used in America very

864
00:40:44,973 --> 00:40:48,573
Speaker 1: often and far too often against people like yourself. So

865
00:40:48,594 --> 00:40:50,694
Speaker 1: certainly I can't imagine what that is like, but I

866
00:40:50,714 --> 00:40:52,073
Speaker 1: want to just leave some space for you to talk

867
00:40:52,114 --> 00:40:53,004
Speaker 1: about that as a.

868
00:40:54,344 --> 00:40:57,384
Speaker 2: I think a lot of people don't think solitary confinement

869
00:40:57,444 --> 00:41:02,044
Speaker 2: is happening the way it's happening because when President Obama,

870
00:41:02,303 --> 00:41:08,743
Speaker 2: I think it was his second term, he stopped solitary confinement.

871
00:41:08,783 --> 00:41:12,574
Speaker 2: He stopped disciplinary segregation for longer than two weeks.

872
00:41:13,774 --> 00:41:15,294
Speaker 3: And so what the system did was.

873
00:41:15,354 --> 00:41:17,573
Speaker 2: Okay, well, we can't, because they used to give people

874
00:41:17,594 --> 00:41:20,743
Speaker 2: back to back to back to back. And so then

875
00:41:20,763 --> 00:41:23,363
Speaker 2: they created, well, we'll put you on administrative confinement because

876
00:41:23,384 --> 00:41:26,084
Speaker 2: you're not here as punishment. You're here for the safety

877
00:41:26,104 --> 00:41:28,524
Speaker 2: and security of the institution. So I think that's one thing.

878
00:41:28,584 --> 00:41:31,174
Speaker 2: A lot of people pulled back from talking about solitary

879
00:41:31,214 --> 00:41:36,834
Speaker 2: because they thought it was handled by President Obama. Two,

880
00:41:38,694 --> 00:41:43,423
Speaker 2: the Prison Rape Elimination Act is a bipartisan measure that's

881
00:41:43,484 --> 00:41:46,183
Speaker 2: been around. I think it was 2002 that it was enacted.

882
00:41:46,444 --> 00:41:52,663
Speaker 2: And so many queer and trans folks were placed in

883
00:41:52,703 --> 00:41:55,903
Speaker 2: solitary under that. And, and so they were like, you're

884
00:41:55,924 --> 00:41:58,723
Speaker 2: not in trouble. We're just have you here for your protection.

885
00:41:58,743 --> 00:42:01,754
Speaker 2: We're putting you in solitary for your protection. We're going

886
00:42:01,774 --> 00:42:04,433
Speaker 2: to destroy your mind for your protection. And they could

887
00:42:04,473 --> 00:42:06,834
Speaker 2: never explain to me what it meant. I would try

888
00:42:06,854 --> 00:42:10,613
Speaker 2: to send letters out. And luckily the ACLU of Nebraska,

889
00:42:10,654 --> 00:42:14,033
Speaker 2: shout out to Amy Miller and Brenda council. I think miss,

890
00:42:14,214 --> 00:42:15,973
Speaker 2: I mean, I think auntie Brenda was the first black

891
00:42:15,993 --> 00:42:17,754
Speaker 2: woman Senator in Nebraska's history.

892
00:42:18,844 --> 00:42:20,643
Speaker 3: Um, They got my letters.

893
00:42:21,303 --> 00:42:24,343
Speaker 2: Amy came down there and like a week later, I

894
00:42:24,364 --> 00:42:26,203
Speaker 2: just woke up one day and my door just opened.

895
00:42:26,884 --> 00:42:27,164
Speaker 1: Wow.

896
00:42:27,723 --> 00:42:31,723
Speaker 2: And they let me out. Now, full circle moments. The

897
00:42:31,783 --> 00:42:34,123
Speaker 2: captain was a woman named Janae Pancook who would like

898
00:42:34,203 --> 00:42:36,604
Speaker 2: sign my extensions in solitary.

899
00:42:37,663 --> 00:42:39,184
Speaker 3: And I don't think I ever saw her face.

900
00:42:39,884 --> 00:42:46,314
Speaker 2: In 2016, I started my Georgetown program and it was

901
00:42:46,354 --> 00:42:49,534
Speaker 2: a cohort of us from Nebraska that In my cohort

902
00:42:49,594 --> 00:42:54,754
Speaker 2: was Janae Pancook, the former captain, and my juvenile judge,

903
00:42:55,194 --> 00:42:56,453
Speaker 2: Judge Elizabeth Serkovich.

904
00:42:57,114 --> 00:42:57,894
Speaker 3: Wow.

905
00:42:58,013 --> 00:43:03,374
Speaker 2: And our job, our whole capstone was around revolutionizing Nebraska's

906
00:43:03,654 --> 00:43:07,604
Speaker 2: juvenile system for queer youth. And so then I ended

907
00:43:07,663 --> 00:43:10,323
Speaker 2: up going back to the PREA Center in 2019, and

908
00:43:10,484 --> 00:43:13,024
Speaker 2: I was one of the co-authors of the way that

909
00:43:13,044 --> 00:43:14,884
Speaker 2: they navigate trans youth in the system.

910
00:43:14,904 --> 00:43:15,074
Speaker 1: So I....

911
00:43:17,913 --> 00:43:22,473
Speaker 2: When you say that I talk with authority, I've survived

912
00:43:22,533 --> 00:43:24,834
Speaker 2: a lot of things. But more importantly, I've lived through them.

913
00:43:24,973 --> 00:43:28,873
Speaker 2: And I think there's a difference. You know, surviving, you

914
00:43:28,893 --> 00:43:30,734
Speaker 2: know what I'm saying? Like, there are days I'm just

915
00:43:30,754 --> 00:43:32,334
Speaker 2: kind of surviving. I know when I'm surviving.

916
00:43:32,634 --> 00:43:33,893
Speaker 3: Head is down. I'm pushing through.

917
00:43:33,973 --> 00:43:35,473
Speaker 2: I can't tell you what's happening to the left or

918
00:43:35,493 --> 00:43:37,203
Speaker 2: the right. I'm just trying to get to the other side.

919
00:43:37,634 --> 00:43:39,954
Speaker 2: And that's got to be what it is. But there

920
00:43:39,973 --> 00:43:42,024
Speaker 2: are a lot of moments that were very hard that

921
00:43:42,084 --> 00:43:44,573
Speaker 2: I lived through. I can tell you what the air

922
00:43:44,614 --> 00:43:46,413
Speaker 2: smelled like. I can tell you what I ate that day.

923
00:43:46,433 --> 00:43:48,613
Speaker 2: I can tell you what the colors were. And I

924
00:43:48,694 --> 00:43:51,184
Speaker 2: used to think that was something that... I'm a Pisces.

925
00:43:51,243 --> 00:43:53,183
Speaker 2: I used to think, you know, we love a depressive moment.

926
00:43:53,203 --> 00:43:55,204
Speaker 2: We love a good slide down the wall and cry moment.

927
00:43:55,223 --> 00:43:58,584
Speaker 2: We live for it. I thought, is this Pisces drama?

928
00:43:58,643 --> 00:44:01,394
Speaker 2: And like, no, it's... I believe one of the reasons

929
00:44:01,413 --> 00:44:02,173
Speaker 2: that I am on.

930
00:44:02,134 --> 00:44:06,163
Speaker 3: This earth is to... create ways for people to learn.

931
00:44:07,084 --> 00:44:10,843
Speaker 2: Nothing that I've experienced will be for not because I'm

932
00:44:10,884 --> 00:44:13,423
Speaker 2: supposed to share it with people and not tell them

933
00:44:13,513 --> 00:44:16,804
Speaker 2: what they should learn. I'm supposed to share it, show

934
00:44:16,844 --> 00:44:20,033
Speaker 2: them what I learned and then create enough room for

935
00:44:20,094 --> 00:44:22,933
Speaker 2: them to find themselves in it. That's a skill that

936
00:44:22,953 --> 00:44:27,013
Speaker 2: I do well. And so whether I'm talking about solitary,

937
00:44:27,033 --> 00:44:32,244
Speaker 2: my parents passing, my divorce, my It could be humorous.

938
00:44:32,384 --> 00:44:33,564
Speaker 2: It could be, you know what I'm saying, like all

939
00:44:33,584 --> 00:44:36,983
Speaker 2: these levels. And so I really try to do that.

940
00:44:37,084 --> 00:44:41,604
Speaker 2: But solitary, I also say that I needed to go

941
00:44:41,643 --> 00:44:43,823
Speaker 2: to prison because if not, I think my parents' death

942
00:44:43,924 --> 00:44:44,683
Speaker 2: would have killed me.

943
00:44:45,683 --> 00:44:47,764
Speaker 3: Oh, wow. If I'm being real.

944
00:44:47,884 --> 00:44:48,764
Speaker 1: You needed to be away.

945
00:44:48,783 --> 00:44:51,224
Speaker 3: I needed to be away. I needed to experience something.

946
00:44:51,444 --> 00:44:53,084
Speaker 2: I needed to experience what I thought would be the

947
00:44:53,123 --> 00:44:55,783
Speaker 2: worst thing ever and kind of like, you know, have

948
00:44:55,803 --> 00:44:56,223
Speaker 2: you ever like.

949
00:44:56,844 --> 00:44:58,524
Speaker 3: Ever been like a fist fight before? You ever fought

950
00:44:58,544 --> 00:44:59,624
Speaker 3: with somebody? You know what I'm saying?

951
00:44:59,643 --> 00:45:00,683
Speaker 2: Or you got a whoop when you were young and

952
00:45:00,703 --> 00:45:02,803
Speaker 2: you don't, you steeled yourself. You're like, I know, I

953
00:45:02,844 --> 00:45:03,803
Speaker 2: know they about to swing on me.

954
00:45:04,004 --> 00:45:04,143
Speaker 3: Yep.

955
00:45:04,544 --> 00:45:06,363
Speaker 2: And it, and it lets you take the next one,

956
00:45:06,444 --> 00:45:08,303
Speaker 2: but you know, after it's going to sting, but I

957
00:45:08,324 --> 00:45:09,393
Speaker 2: pushed through, you know what I'm saying?

958
00:45:09,433 --> 00:45:11,724
Speaker 3: So it's like, I'm like, oh, I done spent 10,

959
00:45:11,714 --> 00:45:14,013
Speaker 3: almost 10 years inside. There's nothing.

960
00:45:14,094 --> 00:45:15,834
Speaker 2: And my dad passed away like the first year of

961
00:45:15,873 --> 00:45:18,294
Speaker 2: me being locked up. I'm like, I came home February

962
00:45:18,314 --> 00:45:23,284
Speaker 2: of 2009. My mother was dead before the year was over.

963
00:45:24,904 --> 00:45:26,783
Speaker 2: And so because I was like, you know what? Ain't

964
00:45:26,844 --> 00:45:27,783
Speaker 2: nothing going to touch me.

965
00:45:27,803 --> 00:45:28,544
Speaker 3: It kind of.

966
00:45:30,134 --> 00:45:34,014
Speaker 2: Tempered me. You know what I'm saying? And then my divorce,

967
00:45:34,033 --> 00:45:36,734
Speaker 2: which I thought was going to wreck me. It's like, okay, prison,

968
00:45:36,774 --> 00:45:40,893
Speaker 2: my parents. You know what I mean? And I think, honestly,

969
00:45:40,973 --> 00:45:42,573
Speaker 2: that prepared me for my transition.

970
00:45:42,594 --> 00:45:46,384
Speaker 1: So that was before you transitioned?

971
00:45:46,953 --> 00:45:48,743
Speaker 3: All of that. I didn't transition until 2020. March of 2020,

972
00:45:48,723 --> 00:45:49,743
Speaker 3: I started my transition. Okay.

973
00:45:52,513 --> 00:45:55,054
Speaker 2: And because I was already like the CEO of black

974
00:45:55,094 --> 00:45:57,823
Speaker 2: and pink, because I was always already known, it kind

975
00:45:57,884 --> 00:46:00,964
Speaker 2: of shot me up. And then within a year I

976
00:46:01,004 --> 00:46:05,623
Speaker 2: was the global model for Apple. So that just, yeah,

977
00:46:05,924 --> 00:46:10,223
Speaker 2: I'd never, I'd never had like a, um, honestly, the

978
00:46:10,263 --> 00:46:12,024
Speaker 2: bonus and things over the last year has been the

979
00:46:12,084 --> 00:46:16,234
Speaker 2: most casual I've gotten to be in my existence because, because.

980
00:46:16,094 --> 00:46:19,174
Speaker 3: Off the rip, it was boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.

981
00:46:19,453 --> 00:46:24,234
Speaker 2: And, and, um, All of those moments got me ready

982
00:46:24,334 --> 00:46:28,084
Speaker 2: for the work of taking me down to the studs

983
00:46:28,203 --> 00:46:32,663
Speaker 2: and really building myself back up. Without a mom or

984
00:46:32,683 --> 00:46:35,524
Speaker 2: dad to be like, yo, am I the daughter of y'all?

985
00:46:35,584 --> 00:46:36,964
Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying? I would love to be

986
00:46:36,984 --> 00:46:39,264
Speaker 2: a looking mom and be like, you know what I'm saying?

987
00:46:39,643 --> 00:46:41,364
Speaker 2: Am I showing up the way you... I got to

988
00:46:41,424 --> 00:46:43,204
Speaker 2: trust in my gut. I got to ask my aunts

989
00:46:43,263 --> 00:46:46,934
Speaker 2: and uncles. You know what I mean? But yeah, that

990
00:46:46,953 --> 00:46:49,794
Speaker 2: was a long ramble. But I don't talk about the

991
00:46:49,834 --> 00:46:53,683
Speaker 2: difficult things because... I want people to sit in the difficulty.

992
00:46:54,604 --> 00:46:58,464
Speaker 2: I want them to understand that you are going to

993
00:46:58,504 --> 00:46:59,494
Speaker 2: be tested. Yes.

994
00:47:01,444 --> 00:47:03,283
Speaker 3: You are. You are.

995
00:47:03,344 --> 00:47:03,843
Speaker 1: You are.

996
00:47:03,964 --> 00:47:07,803
Speaker 3: It's so messed up. It is not fair. And I.

997
00:47:09,884 --> 00:47:12,214
Speaker 2: Don't think we live in a world that tests you

998
00:47:12,254 --> 00:47:14,893
Speaker 2: for something that you can't pass if you really lock in.

999
00:47:14,913 --> 00:47:16,193
Speaker 3: Sure. You know what I mean?

1000
00:47:16,373 --> 00:47:21,053
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, yeah, that was a lot. And speaking about

1001
00:47:21,094 --> 00:47:24,743
Speaker 1: all that, We talked about incarceration. I certainly believe that

1002
00:47:24,783 --> 00:47:26,803
Speaker 1: you shouldn't be judged by your worst moment. It is

1003
00:47:26,864 --> 00:47:30,713
Speaker 1: amazing that you wouldn't adjust that one man who killed

1004
00:47:30,734 --> 00:47:33,153
Speaker 1: Brandon Tina by his worst moment. There's a lot in there,

1005
00:47:33,174 --> 00:47:35,504
Speaker 1: a lot of empathy. I think empathy is the thing

1006
00:47:35,524 --> 00:47:37,584
Speaker 1: that we lack in this society. A lot of it,

1007
00:47:37,623 --> 00:47:40,604
Speaker 1: our empathy has been broken a lot by this current administration.

1008
00:47:42,064 --> 00:47:43,604
Speaker 1: And I certainly, one of the things I did learn

1009
00:47:43,623 --> 00:47:46,044
Speaker 1: at United Shades, I spent time at San Quentin Prison

1010
00:47:46,283 --> 00:47:48,964
Speaker 1: as a visitor. I should be clear, as a visitor.

1011
00:47:49,683 --> 00:47:52,003
Speaker 1: And that was the first time I'd ever been behind

1012
00:47:52,024 --> 00:47:53,883
Speaker 1: the walls of a prison. And I've been friends with

1013
00:47:53,944 --> 00:47:56,084
Speaker 1: Rahsaan Thomas since that day we met on The Art

1014
00:47:56,143 --> 00:47:58,343
Speaker 1: of San Quentin. And he's out now and producing films.

1015
00:47:58,364 --> 00:47:59,864
Speaker 1: And I go back for the San Quentin Film Festival.

1016
00:48:00,123 --> 00:48:03,844
Speaker 1: And that really changed my idea of prison and incarceration

1017
00:48:03,944 --> 00:48:06,803
Speaker 1: and not judging people by their worst moments and also

1018
00:48:06,844 --> 00:48:08,844
Speaker 1: knowing that the system wants to throw people away, especially

1019
00:48:08,864 --> 00:48:09,323
Speaker 1: black people.

1020
00:48:09,723 --> 00:48:11,123
Speaker 2: You may not be living the life that you want

1021
00:48:11,143 --> 00:48:13,763
Speaker 2: to live, but you're still living life. The number of

1022
00:48:13,864 --> 00:48:15,663
Speaker 2: old heads on the yard that could put some fat

1023
00:48:15,723 --> 00:48:19,084
Speaker 2: on somebody's head, the number of sisters who can, you

1024
00:48:19,143 --> 00:48:21,834
Speaker 2: know what I'm saying? Like they're beating faces. Like girls

1025
00:48:21,893 --> 00:48:24,993
Speaker 2: are beating faces at New York fashion week. That's skill, right?

1026
00:48:25,013 --> 00:48:30,073
Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying? The artistry, the singers, the preachers,

1027
00:48:30,594 --> 00:48:36,383
Speaker 2: it doesn't, your purpose doesn't die in you based on

1028
00:48:36,424 --> 00:48:39,193
Speaker 2: where your body exists, right? And so when we look

1029
00:48:39,234 --> 00:48:42,913
Speaker 2: at incarcerated people and like my journey with prison abolition,

1030
00:48:42,933 --> 00:48:44,814
Speaker 2: it was like, I had been incarcerated, but I didn't

1031
00:48:44,854 --> 00:48:48,854
Speaker 2: believe in. Cause everyone talks about prison abolition, like, like

1032
00:48:49,574 --> 00:48:53,143
Speaker 2: closing prisons. We're talking about not looking at people by

1033
00:48:53,163 --> 00:48:56,323
Speaker 2: their actions, but looking at people by the foundational humanity

1034
00:48:56,364 --> 00:48:56,663
Speaker 2: in them.

1035
00:48:56,683 --> 00:48:56,754
Speaker 1: Yes.

1036
00:48:57,544 --> 00:49:01,123
Speaker 2: And ma'am Kaba. And, and she really was helpful for

1037
00:49:01,143 --> 00:49:02,584
Speaker 2: me in my first year of black and pink. Cause

1038
00:49:02,604 --> 00:49:04,203
Speaker 2: it was hard for me, especially when it came to

1039
00:49:04,243 --> 00:49:06,843
Speaker 2: like sex offenders, people who cause harm as someone who,

1040
00:49:07,453 --> 00:49:10,404
Speaker 2: experienced sexual violence during incarceration as a young person. I

1041
00:49:10,643 --> 00:49:14,224
Speaker 2: was like, these people deserve second chances, but not these people, right?

1042
00:49:14,384 --> 00:49:18,963
Speaker 2: And my job was to support everyone. And I had to,

1043
00:49:19,084 --> 00:49:21,843
Speaker 2: she introduced a grace quotient to me, which is, I

1044
00:49:21,864 --> 00:49:23,734
Speaker 2: don't have to be the person that gives the grace.

1045
00:49:23,913 --> 00:49:25,594
Speaker 2: At minimum, I just have to hope that that person

1046
00:49:25,674 --> 00:49:26,474
Speaker 2: finds it somewhere.

1047
00:49:26,783 --> 00:49:26,993
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1048
00:49:27,223 --> 00:49:30,024
Speaker 2: That creates room in the labor of always trying to be...

1049
00:49:29,844 --> 00:49:32,483
Speaker 2: A lot of activists and people are tired because they're

1050
00:49:32,504 --> 00:49:36,604
Speaker 2: performing values they really don't believe in. And so they

1051
00:49:36,663 --> 00:49:40,073
Speaker 2: don't ever find the reciprocity in the experience because it

1052
00:49:40,094 --> 00:49:41,433
Speaker 2: can be hard, but then you get the moments where

1053
00:49:41,453 --> 00:49:43,893
Speaker 2: it's like, oh, I'm exactly who I say I am

1054
00:49:44,013 --> 00:49:45,273
Speaker 2: and that recharges you.

1055
00:49:45,714 --> 00:49:50,013
Speaker 3: No, you're performing. Also, I would like to offer... I

1056
00:49:50,053 --> 00:49:50,553
Speaker 3: completed a.

1057
00:49:50,553 --> 00:49:54,634
Speaker 2: Program through Stanford School of Medicine in radical compassion.

1058
00:49:55,033 --> 00:49:55,604
Speaker 1: Speak on it.

1059
00:49:55,964 --> 00:50:00,443
Speaker 2: It's an 18 month program. And I built so much

1060
00:50:00,464 --> 00:50:02,184
Speaker 2: of my work on conversations of empathy.

1061
00:50:02,723 --> 00:50:03,424
Speaker 3: So much.

1062
00:50:04,024 --> 00:50:10,383
Speaker 2: And the first class that she introduced this definition, compassion

1063
00:50:10,544 --> 00:50:11,404
Speaker 2: is bearing witness.

1064
00:50:14,904 --> 00:50:19,254
Speaker 3: And I was, I was like, What? I'm like, well,

1065
00:50:19,274 --> 00:50:20,714
Speaker 3: what's the next step?

1066
00:50:21,953 --> 00:50:23,013
Speaker 1: Get to the good stuff.

1067
00:50:23,214 --> 00:50:25,054
Speaker 2: Yeah, get to the good stuff. And it was like, no,

1068
00:50:25,373 --> 00:50:29,073
Speaker 2: like bearing witness. And then I had to sit with empathy.

1069
00:50:29,533 --> 00:50:32,453
Speaker 2: There's so many steps happening at once. If you're telling

1070
00:50:32,473 --> 00:50:34,454
Speaker 2: me a story about you burning yourself on the stove,

1071
00:50:34,854 --> 00:50:37,993
Speaker 2: I'm listening to the story. I'm trying to find, right, empathizing.

1072
00:50:38,033 --> 00:50:40,004
Speaker 2: We're trying to find a shared experience where I'm like, oh,

1073
00:50:40,033 --> 00:50:41,944
Speaker 2: where in my head where I know what that feels like? Well,

1074
00:50:41,964 --> 00:50:43,884
Speaker 2: if I don't know exactly that, I'm pulling from it.

1075
00:50:44,084 --> 00:50:47,223
Speaker 2: So my brain is all these places. And then there's people...

1076
00:50:47,484 --> 00:50:50,144
Speaker 2: People assume there's an inherent action that needs to happen next.

1077
00:50:50,283 --> 00:50:50,544
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1078
00:50:51,344 --> 00:50:55,383
Speaker 2: So many of us have taught ourselves to not tell

1079
00:50:55,444 --> 00:50:58,263
Speaker 2: people about what we're going through because we don't know

1080
00:50:58,303 --> 00:51:01,764
Speaker 2: anyone who can just listen to us and not involve themselves.

1081
00:51:01,944 --> 00:51:03,804
Speaker 3: Like, I just need to express the thing.

1082
00:51:03,884 --> 00:51:04,544
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.

1083
00:51:05,134 --> 00:51:05,324
Speaker 3: Right?

1084
00:51:05,683 --> 00:51:08,173
Speaker 2: In that moment where that definition was presented to me,

1085
00:51:08,854 --> 00:51:15,973
Speaker 2: I realized how many of us are exhausted because we're

1086
00:51:16,013 --> 00:51:18,683
Speaker 2: not taking the act of seeing people. Now don't stop

1087
00:51:18,743 --> 00:51:21,243
Speaker 2: at compassion, but radical compassion, there are some people who

1088
00:51:21,283 --> 00:51:23,104
Speaker 2: go all their whole lives.

1089
00:51:22,964 --> 00:51:26,243
Speaker 3: And never like being seen, holding space.

1090
00:51:27,504 --> 00:51:30,803
Speaker 2: And, and when I, when I, I did, I did

1091
00:51:30,824 --> 00:51:33,763
Speaker 2: my TEDx in 2019 and I talked about like, I

1092
00:51:33,803 --> 00:51:36,334
Speaker 2: would tell my stories of incarceration and you know what,

1093
00:51:36,453 --> 00:51:38,594
Speaker 2: people start crying and all of a sudden their emotions

1094
00:51:38,634 --> 00:51:44,094
Speaker 2: became my responsibility. It's like, because you can't, Because also

1095
00:51:44,154 --> 00:51:47,573
Speaker 2: compassion and holding space and bearing witness forces us to

1096
00:51:47,634 --> 00:51:49,134
Speaker 2: sit with being uncomfortable with.

1097
00:51:49,033 --> 00:51:49,743
Speaker 3: What we're watching.

1098
00:51:49,763 --> 00:51:57,084
Speaker 2: Let's take Nolan Wells, for instance. A lot of us

1099
00:51:57,143 --> 00:52:00,464
Speaker 2: are struggling because we are witnessing what we know this

1100
00:52:00,524 --> 00:52:05,133
Speaker 2: country does. And more than ever, we all know that

1101
00:52:06,074 --> 00:52:07,234
Speaker 2: they're going to get their way.

1102
00:52:08,754 --> 00:52:09,734
Speaker 1: Who's the they in that sentence?

1103
00:52:11,074 --> 00:52:15,343
Speaker 2: Systems of oppression, white supremacy, the carceral state, they're going

1104
00:52:15,364 --> 00:52:18,683
Speaker 2: to get their way. And I wrote this piece on

1105
00:52:18,723 --> 00:52:22,383
Speaker 2: Substack and I waited because I know at this point

1106
00:52:22,424 --> 00:52:25,044
Speaker 2: things I create and say, they get places very quickly.

1107
00:52:25,163 --> 00:52:25,964
Speaker 1: Yes. Right?

1108
00:52:26,643 --> 00:52:31,104
Speaker 2: And Nolan's cousin followed me on threads. That's how I

1109
00:52:31,163 --> 00:52:35,243
Speaker 2: saw it the day after. We were at Essence. It

1110
00:52:35,263 --> 00:52:37,484
Speaker 2: was the day after Essence finished. I think it was

1111
00:52:37,584 --> 00:52:40,553
Speaker 2: July 5th. I woke up and I saw the auntie,

1112
00:52:40,574 --> 00:52:42,954
Speaker 2: the cousin auntie, you know, everybody cousin auntie in black.

1113
00:52:42,854 --> 00:52:45,334
Speaker 3: Families, that he was missing.

1114
00:52:45,674 --> 00:52:45,913
Speaker 1: Yes.

1115
00:52:46,433 --> 00:52:48,053
Speaker 3: I saw it very early. And right.

1116
00:52:48,114 --> 00:52:49,914
Speaker 2: And so I've kind of watched it from the jump.

1117
00:52:50,174 --> 00:52:52,834
Speaker 2: And I put up this subsect piece saying they're going

1118
00:52:52,854 --> 00:52:54,474
Speaker 2: to get their way, but also we get to have

1119
00:52:54,553 --> 00:52:57,464
Speaker 2: our way. What is restoration? What is healing outside of

1120
00:52:57,504 --> 00:53:01,084
Speaker 2: this system? There is pain to put these parents up

1121
00:53:01,344 --> 00:53:04,344
Speaker 2: every other week and beg people to see the humanity

1122
00:53:04,384 --> 00:53:07,814
Speaker 2: in this baby. To look at things that are based

1123
00:53:07,854 --> 00:53:10,703
Speaker 2: in common sense, the gaslighting, the number of black folks

1124
00:53:10,723 --> 00:53:12,584
Speaker 2: who are just like, am I tripping? And then you

1125
00:53:12,604 --> 00:53:14,803
Speaker 2: see the number of black folks that instead of being

1126
00:53:14,884 --> 00:53:18,203
Speaker 2: angry and frustrated, they began to adopt the perspective of

1127
00:53:18,243 --> 00:53:21,544
Speaker 2: the system because they would rather ride with it than

1128
00:53:21,604 --> 00:53:26,454
Speaker 2: feel the uneasiness of bearing witness to us being played

1129
00:53:26,533 --> 00:53:31,294
Speaker 2: with at the intersection of the loss of an 18-year-old

1130
00:53:31,354 --> 00:53:35,654
Speaker 2: child while you want me to sign up. for a

1131
00:53:35,674 --> 00:53:38,294
Speaker 2: society that will let a Black woman get a murder

1132
00:53:38,314 --> 00:53:41,584
Speaker 2: charge here in Georgia because she had to overnight some

1133
00:53:41,643 --> 00:53:44,704
Speaker 2: abortion medication because nobody would give her the support she needs.

1134
00:53:46,364 --> 00:53:46,624
Speaker 3: Right?

1135
00:53:46,984 --> 00:53:47,203
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1136
00:53:47,604 --> 00:53:50,123
Speaker 2: And so bearing witness is also important because sometimes you

1137
00:53:50,163 --> 00:53:51,803
Speaker 2: just got to sit still and hold it.

1138
00:53:51,803 --> 00:53:56,623
Speaker 3: Yes. Because if you move in, they'll goop you the

1139
00:53:56,643 --> 00:53:57,444
Speaker 3: way they want you.

1140
00:53:57,703 --> 00:54:00,263
Speaker 2: It's the card game, you know, the things. But if

1141
00:54:00,303 --> 00:54:04,323
Speaker 2: you're locked in, Life is a spades game, and you've

1142
00:54:04,344 --> 00:54:05,744
Speaker 2: got to go Boston every time.

1143
00:54:06,183 --> 00:54:08,003
Speaker 1: You've got to go Boston every time.

1144
00:54:08,163 --> 00:54:08,903
Speaker 3: You understand me?

1145
00:54:08,944 --> 00:54:09,783
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, yes.

1146
00:54:10,123 --> 00:54:12,643
Speaker 3: Right? And for those who don't understand, we've got to

1147
00:54:12,683 --> 00:54:13,064
Speaker 3: check in.

1148
00:54:13,084 --> 00:54:16,693
Speaker 2: We've got to lock in because on the spades table,

1149
00:54:16,714 --> 00:54:19,173
Speaker 2: I always tell people, I've been in the institutions. I've

1150
00:54:19,194 --> 00:54:22,354
Speaker 2: gotten education that I'm so proud of. Every day, I

1151
00:54:22,734 --> 00:54:25,113
Speaker 2: pull something out from the prison yard that has saved

1152
00:54:25,154 --> 00:54:29,384
Speaker 2: my life. I've raised millions of dollars in boardrooms. on

1153
00:54:29,453 --> 00:54:32,843
Speaker 2: knowing you only got a two of diamonds and you

1154
00:54:32,884 --> 00:54:34,883
Speaker 2: trying to make it walk. Right?

1155
00:54:35,263 --> 00:54:37,284
Speaker 3: I've changed lives with that.

1156
00:54:37,303 --> 00:54:41,443
Speaker 2: And when it comes to us witnessing what's happening around us,

1157
00:54:43,824 --> 00:54:47,074
Speaker 2: I believe through compassion and bearing witness and the uncomfortableness

1158
00:54:47,114 --> 00:54:51,073
Speaker 2: we're holding, that's our debt to the process.

1159
00:54:51,393 --> 00:54:51,633
Speaker 1: Yes.

1160
00:54:52,214 --> 00:54:54,634
Speaker 3: We just better make sure our debt isn't in vain.

1161
00:54:55,094 --> 00:54:55,354
Speaker 1: Yes.

1162
00:54:56,134 --> 00:54:56,433
Speaker 3: You know?

1163
00:54:57,274 --> 00:55:01,553
Speaker 2: And it's uncomfortable conversations. As someone who, I started dating

1164
00:55:01,614 --> 00:55:03,633
Speaker 2: at 16. I came out at 12, started dating at 16.

1165
00:55:03,634 --> 00:55:07,153
Speaker 2: From 16 to 34, I only dated white men.

1166
00:55:07,634 --> 00:55:07,934
Speaker 1: Okay.

1167
00:55:08,194 --> 00:55:10,473
Speaker 3: Only dated white men. Right?

1168
00:55:10,533 --> 00:55:12,223
Speaker 1: I can't judge. Right?

1169
00:55:12,243 --> 00:55:15,564
Speaker 2: But I'm just saying, because I will talk about interracial relationships.

1170
00:55:15,604 --> 00:55:18,743
Speaker 2: I will talk about white partners. And I always want

1171
00:55:18,763 --> 00:55:21,703
Speaker 2: to frame it in the mindset of, I was not

1172
00:55:21,783 --> 00:55:23,763
Speaker 2: dating these white men because I was attracted to them.

1173
00:55:23,884 --> 00:55:25,764
Speaker 2: I was dating them because of their proximity to whiteness.

1174
00:55:27,013 --> 00:55:30,814
Speaker 2: That was my journey. And when we talk to people

1175
00:55:30,834 --> 00:55:33,263
Speaker 2: who have white partners, my thing is, well, why do

1176
00:55:33,283 --> 00:55:34,944
Speaker 2: you love your partner? If the first thing they bring

1177
00:55:34,973 --> 00:55:38,004
Speaker 2: up is race, then I'm like, okay, that's foolishness. And

1178
00:55:38,044 --> 00:55:40,923
Speaker 2: then once we push past that, for me, it's just

1179
00:55:40,964 --> 00:55:45,104
Speaker 2: the work. It's just the work. White relationships, white proximity,

1180
00:55:45,163 --> 00:55:48,723
Speaker 2: white spaces. So being in Nebraska, I could have a

1181
00:55:48,743 --> 00:55:50,483
Speaker 2: black partner, but I'm in Nebraska, I have a strong

1182
00:55:50,504 --> 00:55:53,504
Speaker 2: relationship to whiteness. Nolan and his family being in Mississippi,

1183
00:55:53,544 --> 00:55:56,804
Speaker 2: what they're navigating doesn't matter anymore. what the family wanted

1184
00:55:56,824 --> 00:56:00,504
Speaker 2: to have happen, his closest network were these white folks.

1185
00:56:01,683 --> 00:56:04,263
Speaker 2: Black lives cannot keep going in the wood chipper, and

1186
00:56:05,303 --> 00:56:07,623
Speaker 2: we not learning how it's happening.

1187
00:56:07,803 --> 00:56:08,064
Speaker 1: Yes.

1188
00:56:08,824 --> 00:56:09,004
Speaker 3: Right?

1189
00:56:09,044 --> 00:56:12,544
Speaker 2: The theory of change of white supremacy is what I'm

1190
00:56:12,604 --> 00:56:13,123
Speaker 2: calling it.

1191
00:56:13,143 --> 00:56:14,263
Speaker 3: Yes.

1192
00:56:14,364 --> 00:56:15,703
Speaker 2: And I think one piece of it is love who

1193
00:56:15,723 --> 00:56:18,823
Speaker 2: you love, have the friends you want to have, and

1194
00:56:19,763 --> 00:56:22,323
Speaker 2: everyone around you should be able to iterate why you

1195
00:56:22,384 --> 00:56:25,513
Speaker 2: are precious and important to them, But when you have

1196
00:56:25,553 --> 00:56:30,493
Speaker 2: a partner that comes from a system that has historically

1197
00:56:30,574 --> 00:56:34,014
Speaker 2: hurt your people, they need to understand that language even more.

1198
00:56:35,574 --> 00:56:37,513
Speaker 2: And my white homegirls, they know I'll be like, sister,

1199
00:56:37,533 --> 00:56:39,054
Speaker 2: why you fuck with me? Yeah.

1200
00:56:39,973 --> 00:56:41,754
Speaker 3: You understand what I'm saying? Hey, girl, you know what

1201
00:56:41,774 --> 00:56:43,714
Speaker 3: I'm saying? Like that's that's that's key.

1202
00:56:43,814 --> 00:56:47,283
Speaker 2: And so through this journey of like really holding space

1203
00:56:47,324 --> 00:56:49,014
Speaker 2: around this thing with Nolan, it's like, yo, we got to.

1204
00:56:51,734 --> 00:56:55,593
Speaker 3: We got to have difficult conversations and these young black boys. Yeah.

1205
00:56:57,234 --> 00:57:01,214
Speaker 3: These young black boys, the, the, the, the Carmelo Anthony's,

1206
00:57:01,294 --> 00:57:07,943
Speaker 3: the come out. I sit with this. I think for me,

1207
00:57:08,163 --> 00:57:10,323
Speaker 3: I transitioned at 38 and.

1208
00:57:13,404 --> 00:57:15,784
Speaker 2: My compassion for young black boys is not the like traditional,

1209
00:57:15,803 --> 00:57:17,734
Speaker 2: like auntie, like he can't do no wrong.

1210
00:57:17,994 --> 00:57:18,233
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1211
00:57:19,314 --> 00:57:24,184
Speaker 2: I've been a little black boy. And I had amazing parents.

1212
00:57:24,304 --> 00:57:27,984
Speaker 2: My dad loved me so much. My mother loved me

1213
00:57:28,024 --> 00:57:31,633
Speaker 2: so much. And I still got caught up in the

1214
00:57:31,694 --> 00:57:36,174
Speaker 2: hurricane of life. When we talk about empathy and compassion,

1215
00:57:36,214 --> 00:57:42,194
Speaker 2: we talk about holding space. I'm always like, I could

1216
00:57:42,214 --> 00:57:42,854
Speaker 2: have been Nolan.

1217
00:57:43,254 --> 00:57:43,454
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1218
00:57:44,654 --> 00:57:44,954
Speaker 3: Right?

1219
00:57:46,464 --> 00:57:47,863
Speaker 2: I was the kid when you said something to me

1220
00:57:47,924 --> 00:57:50,704
Speaker 2: in school, I'm going to hit you harder. I could

1221
00:57:50,724 --> 00:57:51,524
Speaker 2: have been Carmelo.

1222
00:57:51,954 --> 00:57:53,233
Speaker 1: Yeah. Right.

1223
00:57:53,294 --> 00:57:57,054
Speaker 2: So when I'm having these discussions, it's me bringing the

1224
00:57:57,174 --> 00:57:59,153
Speaker 2: totality of my life to it. And I think that

1225
00:57:59,224 --> 00:58:02,363
Speaker 2: is why I, no one can ever make me not

1226
00:58:02,464 --> 00:58:05,504
Speaker 2: cherish the Black, my trans experience because I get to see,

1227
00:58:06,284 --> 00:58:10,144
Speaker 2: I've seen life in so many ways that makes, makes

1228
00:58:10,184 --> 00:58:11,144
Speaker 2: me very unique.

1229
00:58:11,164 --> 00:58:12,044
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1230
00:58:12,164 --> 00:58:15,674
Speaker 2: And it allows me to be a part of the

1231
00:58:15,724 --> 00:58:21,894
Speaker 2: Black fabric in a way that I think is I

1232
00:58:21,934 --> 00:58:24,634
Speaker 2: will be proud of when I leave this earth. And

1233
00:58:24,774 --> 00:58:27,554
Speaker 2: you see it in my content, of course. But also

1234
00:58:27,614 --> 00:58:29,134
Speaker 2: it's like, that's why I like to get into the streets.

1235
00:58:29,354 --> 00:58:30,874
Speaker 2: I see it with the people in real time.

1236
00:58:30,894 --> 00:58:31,654
Speaker 3: You know what I'm saying?

1237
00:58:32,354 --> 00:58:36,064
Speaker 2: And what I hope happens through conversations like this with you,

1238
00:58:36,104 --> 00:58:38,244
Speaker 2: with Kev, is that I want more Black men to

1239
00:58:39,224 --> 00:58:44,004
Speaker 2: see me as a resource. I said on Kev's podcast,

1240
00:58:44,024 --> 00:58:45,664
Speaker 2: like it was so important, like my uncles are so

1241
00:58:45,704 --> 00:58:48,514
Speaker 2: important to me. I had to have a possibility model

1242
00:58:48,534 --> 00:58:50,414
Speaker 2: of Black men who loved me and not because they

1243
00:58:50,434 --> 00:58:55,274
Speaker 2: wanted to have sex with me Yes. And I got,

1244
00:58:55,294 --> 00:58:59,914
Speaker 2: I have brothers. I got like, you know, not biological brothers,

1245
00:58:59,934 --> 00:59:01,613
Speaker 2: but black guys that I'm close to. And I'm just like,

1246
00:59:01,634 --> 00:59:04,354
Speaker 2: it's very important to me because I love when they

1247
00:59:04,374 --> 00:59:06,593
Speaker 2: call me and they ask like a random question that

1248
00:59:06,614 --> 00:59:07,593
Speaker 2: you should ask your sister.

1249
00:59:07,614 --> 00:59:11,464
Speaker 3: You know what I'm saying? It's like, no, like I

1250
00:59:11,564 --> 00:59:14,404
Speaker 3: am a part of the village.

1251
00:59:14,824 --> 00:59:15,064
Speaker 1: Yes.

1252
00:59:15,524 --> 00:59:18,084
Speaker 2: And I think with black men, black trans women are

1253
00:59:18,144 --> 00:59:20,024
Speaker 2: part of the village is usually from a space of

1254
00:59:20,064 --> 00:59:23,534
Speaker 2: sexual pleasure. or unpacking something about themselves that they don't

1255
00:59:23,594 --> 00:59:27,294
Speaker 2: want to share with the broader world. And at 44,

1256
00:59:27,294 --> 00:59:28,724
Speaker 2: that's not labor I want to give.

1257
00:59:28,744 --> 00:59:29,784
Speaker 3: I do.

1258
00:59:30,754 --> 00:59:32,674
Speaker 2: want to be able to tell you like how to

1259
00:59:32,694 --> 00:59:34,994
Speaker 2: separate your laundry. I'll do that labor. So your girlfriend,

1260
00:59:35,014 --> 00:59:36,514
Speaker 2: you know what I'm saying? Like I do want, you

1261
00:59:36,574 --> 00:59:38,434
Speaker 2: know what I'm saying? I do want to call me

1262
00:59:38,454 --> 00:59:40,034
Speaker 2: when you put on that outfit. And before you go

1263
00:59:40,054 --> 00:59:42,414
Speaker 2: to this job interview, you look a fool change. I

1264
00:59:42,514 --> 00:59:44,093
Speaker 2: do want to write. I do want to be able

1265
00:59:44,114 --> 00:59:46,093
Speaker 2: to get in your inbox and say, now, you know,

1266
00:59:46,134 --> 00:59:48,534
Speaker 2: you cutting up. You know what I'm saying? Like that's

1267
00:59:48,674 --> 00:59:52,153
Speaker 2: important to me. And, um, I know this really went

1268
00:59:52,174 --> 00:59:54,673
Speaker 2: a lot of places, but, but all this is rooted

1269
00:59:54,714 --> 00:59:58,284
Speaker 2: in the idea of me divesting from, uh, empathy as

1270
00:59:58,384 --> 01:00:03,714
Speaker 2: my main focus and, implementing compassion as the way that

1271
01:00:03,794 --> 01:00:07,694
Speaker 2: I start with everything because the silence, the stillness, it allows.

1272
01:00:07,494 --> 01:00:09,593
Speaker 3: Me to be so much more strategic about what is next.

1273
01:00:28,884 --> 01:00:34,673
Speaker 1: So we've talked about your incarceration. We've talked about empathy.

1274
01:00:35,224 --> 01:00:38,994
Speaker 1: And when I first came upon you, there was some

1275
01:00:39,014 --> 01:00:41,334
Speaker 1: sort of news story that you seemed to be talking

1276
01:00:41,354 --> 01:00:44,394
Speaker 1: about that I didn't understand. And I was like, I

1277
01:00:44,394 --> 01:00:46,133
Speaker 1: didn't even know how to Google it. And now I've

1278
01:00:46,154 --> 01:00:49,214
Speaker 1: sort of done the deep dive. And I know some

1279
01:00:49,254 --> 01:00:52,613
Speaker 1: people are coming to you today fresh. I just want

1280
01:00:52,634 --> 01:00:54,794
Speaker 1: to ask you about you were incarcerated earlier this year.

1281
01:00:55,924 --> 01:00:56,924
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1282
01:00:57,084 --> 01:00:59,483
Speaker 2: And the top of the summer, which is important to say,

1283
01:00:59,524 --> 01:01:03,064
Speaker 2: because I think the way that I navigated it, so

1284
01:01:03,084 --> 01:01:05,684
Speaker 2: many people like to be like, oh, that seems like

1285
01:01:05,704 --> 01:01:06,904
Speaker 2: I was like, no, baby, that was me.

1286
01:01:07,004 --> 01:01:09,624
Speaker 1: That was me. It wasn't yet. Now people's sense of

1287
01:01:09,664 --> 01:01:12,204
Speaker 1: time has been skewed since COVID. So yeah, that was not.

1288
01:01:12,424 --> 01:01:16,264
Speaker 3: And I've been on the pavement. So people be like, oh,

1289
01:01:16,284 --> 01:01:17,354
Speaker 3: I was like, no, baby, that was me.

1290
01:01:17,414 --> 01:01:19,954
Speaker 1: Yeah. So I just want to give you space to

1291
01:01:19,994 --> 01:01:21,894
Speaker 1: address that because I think a lot of people will

1292
01:01:21,914 --> 01:01:23,714
Speaker 1: hear what you're saying now and be like, yes, yes, yes.

1293
01:01:23,954 --> 01:01:26,423
Speaker 1: And then look at that story around you and not

1294
01:01:26,474 --> 01:01:28,914
Speaker 1: know what to make of the Ochre Project and you

1295
01:01:28,954 --> 01:01:31,314
Speaker 1: go to jail for 30 days. And clearly you have

1296
01:01:31,394 --> 01:01:34,914
Speaker 1: love for black trans women. That story seems different. Please,

1297
01:01:34,954 --> 01:01:36,593
Speaker 1: I just want to give you space to talk about that. Yeah.

1298
01:01:37,674 --> 01:01:40,234
Speaker 2: I came to know the Ochre Project in early 2021

1299
01:01:40,234 --> 01:01:44,514
Speaker 2: and I was running Black and Pink and I was

1300
01:01:44,554 --> 01:01:47,514
Speaker 2: super happy with what I was doing. And the founder

1301
01:01:47,534 --> 01:01:49,734
Speaker 2: of Ochre Project reached out to me and she was like, hey,

1302
01:01:49,934 --> 01:01:52,323
Speaker 2: I'm going to step down I would like you to

1303
01:01:52,564 --> 01:01:54,504
Speaker 2: like take my place. And I was like, I'm not

1304
01:01:54,544 --> 01:01:57,974
Speaker 2: moving to New York. I don't want to leave what

1305
01:01:58,014 --> 01:02:02,514
Speaker 2: I'm doing here at Black and Pink. And because I

1306
01:02:02,534 --> 01:02:06,814
Speaker 2: was still Nebraska based and you got to think this

1307
01:02:06,834 --> 01:02:10,694
Speaker 2: is a pandemic. So I'm not knowing like, and activism

1308
01:02:10,734 --> 01:02:13,854
Speaker 2: is becoming this celebrity thing. So when stuff was happening

1309
01:02:13,934 --> 01:02:16,814
Speaker 2: amongst activists at this time, people would try to keep

1310
01:02:16,854 --> 01:02:19,904
Speaker 2: it as hush hush as possible because Because people were

1311
01:02:19,924 --> 01:02:24,304
Speaker 2: trying to navigate things. It was becoming very Hollywood-ish. And

1312
01:02:24,364 --> 01:02:26,774
Speaker 2: so I don't know. At this time, there's like a

1313
01:02:26,814 --> 01:02:29,654
Speaker 2: million dollars missing in the transfer of the organization. That

1314
01:02:29,754 --> 01:02:32,093
Speaker 2: staff is being let go at this time. I don't

1315
01:02:32,134 --> 01:02:33,914
Speaker 2: know this and all the Twitter things that I come

1316
01:02:33,954 --> 01:02:34,693
Speaker 2: to find out about.

1317
01:02:34,834 --> 01:02:36,554
Speaker 1: This is the Ochre Project, a million dollars.

1318
01:02:36,574 --> 01:02:39,784
Speaker 2: Yes, it's the Ochre Project, right? Because they first started

1319
01:02:39,804 --> 01:02:45,554
Speaker 2: raising money on PayPal, right? Before they had a fiscal sponsor.

1320
01:02:46,154 --> 01:02:48,934
Speaker 2: And so it was all this foolishness. And anyway, we

1321
01:02:49,034 --> 01:02:52,424
Speaker 2: end up Black and Pink board and they decide I

1322
01:02:52,444 --> 01:02:54,924
Speaker 2: can run both of them. And I'm like, you know what,

1323
01:02:54,944 --> 01:02:57,224
Speaker 2: we're going to do like a 20-80 to start off

1324
01:02:57,304 --> 01:02:59,204
Speaker 2: because Okra doesn't have a lot of work.

1325
01:03:00,644 --> 01:03:02,304
Speaker 1: So 80% of your work with Black and Pink, 20%

1326
01:03:02,304 --> 01:03:03,483
Speaker 1: with Okra. Right.

1327
01:03:04,244 --> 01:03:05,784
Speaker 2: And I was like, this also will give me the

1328
01:03:05,844 --> 01:03:10,664
Speaker 2: chance to hire two Black trans women. And because the

1329
01:03:10,704 --> 01:03:12,903
Speaker 2: work isn't heavy, it'll give me the chance to one,

1330
01:03:13,144 --> 01:03:16,454
Speaker 2: train them. I'm going to share with them on the

1331
01:03:16,494 --> 01:03:18,483
Speaker 2: front end. And I plan on leaving here in five

1332
01:03:18,524 --> 01:03:22,964
Speaker 2: years because my black and pink that year of the

1333
01:03:23,044 --> 01:03:26,843
Speaker 2: overlap was my fifth year at black and pink. Because

1334
01:03:26,864 --> 01:03:28,914
Speaker 2: I was like, you know, I want to demonstrate that

1335
01:03:28,934 --> 01:03:30,374
Speaker 2: you need to get out of the way to create

1336
01:03:30,414 --> 01:03:31,214
Speaker 2: room for new people.

1337
01:03:31,354 --> 01:03:31,634
Speaker 1: Yes.

1338
01:03:33,054 --> 01:03:38,944
Speaker 2: And so I hired these two girls. And something I

1339
01:03:38,974 --> 01:03:42,554
Speaker 2: processed maybe a couple of weeks ago Is that I

1340
01:03:42,614 --> 01:03:45,633
Speaker 2: thought if I gave you your things and I was

1341
01:03:45,654 --> 01:03:48,494
Speaker 2: getting my things, that it would create this culture where

1342
01:03:48,634 --> 01:03:51,544
Speaker 2: people were, their needs were met and there's no reason

1343
01:03:51,584 --> 01:03:53,804
Speaker 2: for us to have the approach.

1344
01:03:53,544 --> 01:03:54,524
Speaker 3: Anything from scarcity.

1345
01:03:56,244 --> 01:03:58,724
Speaker 2: What I was doing is I was assuming that your

1346
01:03:58,784 --> 01:04:00,584
Speaker 2: things were the things that I wanted.

1347
01:04:01,284 --> 01:04:03,494
Speaker 1: That what you, you were doing things that I wanted

1348
01:04:03,514 --> 01:04:03,874
Speaker 1: you to do.

1349
01:04:04,604 --> 01:04:07,244
Speaker 2: Well, no, the things that I would have wanted at

1350
01:04:07,284 --> 01:04:08,644
Speaker 2: that time were the things that you wanted.

1351
01:04:08,744 --> 01:04:10,613
Speaker 1: Okay. We had the same goals.

1352
01:04:10,654 --> 01:04:11,423
Speaker 3: We had the same goals.

1353
01:04:11,454 --> 01:04:14,894
Speaker 2: So me giving you access to the job, like, you know, hey,

1354
01:04:15,294 --> 01:04:17,694
Speaker 2: we all need to be making this money. I decided

1355
01:04:17,734 --> 01:04:18,494
Speaker 2: their salaries.

1356
01:04:18,954 --> 01:04:19,133
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1357
01:04:19,294 --> 01:04:21,354
Speaker 2: And then they went in and they decided my salary

1358
01:04:21,374 --> 01:04:29,024
Speaker 2: with HR. Right. But I had to realize they weren't

1359
01:04:29,064 --> 01:04:33,244
Speaker 2: prepared for it. So long story short, we did not

1360
01:04:33,284 --> 01:04:36,224
Speaker 2: have a board. The three of us were the board

1361
01:04:36,574 --> 01:04:39,113
Speaker 2: because we were getting our nonprofit status coming up under

1362
01:04:39,134 --> 01:04:43,314
Speaker 2: the fiscal agent, Arts Business Collaborative. And in this whole story,

1363
01:04:43,354 --> 01:04:46,534
Speaker 2: which I've always been frustrated, and I've talked about it

1364
01:04:46,594 --> 01:04:49,284
Speaker 2: more since May, when I left the Oakwood Project, Oakwood

1365
01:04:49,304 --> 01:04:52,624
Speaker 2: Project had over $ 4 million loose money.

1366
01:04:54,644 --> 01:04:54,924
Speaker 1: Right?

1367
01:04:55,724 --> 01:04:59,084
Speaker 2: When they transitioned from Arts Business Collaborative, all of the money,

1368
01:04:59,464 --> 01:05:03,334
Speaker 2: they don't have access to any of it. And so

1369
01:05:03,614 --> 01:05:05,874
Speaker 2: I think they're suing them right now. But that was

1370
01:05:05,894 --> 01:05:06,534
Speaker 2: what we were doing.

1371
01:05:06,614 --> 01:05:08,054
Speaker 1: I just want to try.

1372
01:05:08,074 --> 01:05:10,133
Speaker 2: The Oprah Project is, I believe, suing the Arts, Music,

1373
01:05:10,154 --> 01:05:12,673
Speaker 2: and Collective because there's millions that they don't have access to.

1374
01:05:13,074 --> 01:05:17,994
Speaker 2: That's why they're doing these fundraising campaigns. And we started

1375
01:05:18,034 --> 01:05:20,294
Speaker 2: a bail support program, the same bail support program I

1376
01:05:20,314 --> 01:05:21,714
Speaker 2: did at Black and Pink that I did for the

1377
01:05:21,754 --> 01:05:23,374
Speaker 2: whole time I was at Black and Pink, the same

1378
01:05:23,434 --> 01:05:25,934
Speaker 2: way I did it. That was built off of the

1379
01:05:25,974 --> 01:05:29,434
Speaker 2: way the National Bail Fund did their programming. I am

1380
01:05:29,534 --> 01:05:34,014
Speaker 2: not tracking... I'm not a bail bondsman. I don't think

1381
01:05:34,034 --> 01:05:35,534
Speaker 2: that's the way we should do it. That's not the

1382
01:05:35,554 --> 01:05:37,334
Speaker 2: way that we did in Nebraska for years and years

1383
01:05:37,394 --> 01:05:41,613
Speaker 2: and years and years. And we did bail support for

1384
01:05:41,634 --> 01:05:47,564
Speaker 2: like three weeks. My deputy director, Alana, the girls wanted

1385
01:05:47,604 --> 01:05:53,104
Speaker 2: the organization. And because we were all contractors and we

1386
01:05:53,144 --> 01:05:55,564
Speaker 2: were the board because we were establishing our nonprofit status,

1387
01:05:56,164 --> 01:05:59,144
Speaker 2: them coming together, deciding that my contract was over, The

1388
01:05:59,164 --> 01:06:01,554
Speaker 2: day after I moved to Atlanta in 2022, I was

1389
01:06:01,594 --> 01:06:06,894
Speaker 2: let go from the Ochre Project. That was August 3rd, 2022.

1390
01:06:06,894 --> 01:06:10,133
Speaker 2: With the allegation being that they can't track the bail support.

1391
01:06:10,734 --> 01:06:17,914
Speaker 2: I don't have the W-2 forms for the people. I

1392
01:06:17,934 --> 01:06:20,133
Speaker 2: was like, well, none of these things we were talking about.

1393
01:06:20,154 --> 01:06:24,254
Speaker 2: None of these things were discussed. I then get a job.

1394
01:06:24,314 --> 01:06:27,363
Speaker 2: I go into philanthropy. I get a street named after me.

1395
01:06:27,524 --> 01:06:31,964
Speaker 2: All this time passes. And out of the blue, October 16th, 2024,

1396
01:06:31,964 --> 01:06:35,224
Speaker 2: I get a call from Kings County Court that they

1397
01:06:35,244 --> 01:06:35,964
Speaker 2: want to talk to me.

1398
01:06:37,304 --> 01:06:39,983
Speaker 3: And I'm like, OK, this is a conversation.

1399
01:06:40,104 --> 01:06:44,984
Speaker 2: I show up and there's this indictment, which messed me

1400
01:06:45,024 --> 01:06:47,823
Speaker 2: up in a lot of ways, because one, I knew

1401
01:06:47,844 --> 01:06:49,764
Speaker 2: you went to a grand jury because you couldn't discharge me.

1402
01:06:49,804 --> 01:06:51,874
Speaker 2: Everybody thought the indictment like these were federal charges. This

1403
01:06:51,894 --> 01:06:55,104
Speaker 2: was a county case. And most of them were the

1404
01:06:55,144 --> 01:06:58,343
Speaker 2: alleged like doctoring of documents that I hadn't had access to.

1405
01:06:58,364 --> 01:06:59,884
Speaker 3: So they spent two years.

1406
01:07:00,384 --> 01:07:02,584
Speaker 2: And I'm sharing this because my decision I made is

1407
01:07:02,844 --> 01:07:03,483
Speaker 2: rooted in this.

1408
01:07:03,884 --> 01:07:04,084
Speaker 1: Yes.

1409
01:07:04,704 --> 01:07:06,804
Speaker 2: I'm a black trans woman who was incarcerated as a

1410
01:07:06,824 --> 01:07:10,214
Speaker 2: young person. You alleged that I took $ 100, 000 and it

1411
01:07:10,234 --> 01:07:14,854
Speaker 2: took you two years to charge me with anything. The

1412
01:07:14,874 --> 01:07:19,274
Speaker 2: indictment was October 29th. The first court hearing was December

1413
01:07:19,454 --> 01:07:21,673
Speaker 2: 18th of 2024. They came to me with a deal

1414
01:07:21,714 --> 01:07:25,344
Speaker 2: of Dominique, if you serve 90 days, we'll let everything go.

1415
01:07:25,454 --> 01:07:29,804
Speaker 2: I'm like, I'm like, I've been on the New York times.

1416
01:07:30,384 --> 01:07:34,624
Speaker 2: They have, they've written pieces comparing me to Donald Trump. Um, and,

1417
01:07:34,724 --> 01:07:36,764
Speaker 2: and then he gets elected the second time. So this

1418
01:07:36,804 --> 01:07:39,004
Speaker 2: is like, the diamond is October 29th. And then he's

1419
01:07:39,064 --> 01:07:40,744
Speaker 2: elected a week later, like this. And this is the

1420
01:07:40,784 --> 01:07:41,604
Speaker 2: word I come into.

1421
01:07:41,624 --> 01:07:43,514
Speaker 1: So they, they were comparing you to Donald Trump in

1422
01:07:43,534 --> 01:07:45,334
Speaker 1: the bad way, like in the, in the bad way,

1423
01:07:45,354 --> 01:07:46,954
Speaker 1: because he had, yeah.

1424
01:07:46,974 --> 01:07:49,713
Speaker 2: Cause some of his charges were, were, and they were like, well, this,

1425
01:07:49,774 --> 01:07:51,234
Speaker 2: it was like Republican newspapers.

1426
01:07:51,294 --> 01:07:52,254
Speaker 3: It was insane.

1427
01:07:52,274 --> 01:07:52,914
Speaker 1: Mm hmm.

1428
01:07:53,394 --> 01:07:55,073
Speaker 2: And then we just keep going and they come back

1429
01:07:55,114 --> 01:07:58,573
Speaker 2: and they're like, well, you do 60 days. Then they

1430
01:07:58,614 --> 01:08:01,494
Speaker 2: kept canceling hearings. And then I'm just like, I just

1431
01:08:01,514 --> 01:08:04,324
Speaker 2: need to focus. And then social media thing happens.

1432
01:08:04,594 --> 01:08:04,844
Speaker 3: Yes.

1433
01:08:05,684 --> 01:08:08,804
Speaker 2: I honestly was just like waiting everything out because I

1434
01:08:08,824 --> 01:08:12,544
Speaker 2: was like, I haven't seen discovery. They know I didn't

1435
01:08:12,584 --> 01:08:14,863
Speaker 2: do this. Y'all are trying to clear your taxes. Then

1436
01:08:14,884 --> 01:08:17,804
Speaker 2: we finally look at the tax forms. And for each year,

1437
01:08:17,844 --> 01:08:21,724
Speaker 2: including last year, it lists me as the issue. You

1438
01:08:21,744 --> 01:08:27,094
Speaker 2: lost millions to your fiscal. And also, I couldn't talk

1439
01:08:27,134 --> 01:08:29,254
Speaker 2: about these things because we're in the middle of the case, right?

1440
01:08:29,354 --> 01:08:29,774
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.

1441
01:08:30,194 --> 01:08:32,794
Speaker 2: December of last year, I finally saw the discovery. The

1442
01:08:32,814 --> 01:08:37,154
Speaker 2: discovery was the three women, the Black trans woman who

1443
01:08:37,194 --> 01:08:39,204
Speaker 2: was the founder and the two girls I hired, it

1444
01:08:39,244 --> 01:08:42,944
Speaker 2: was their testimony at the grand jury, was the discovery.

1445
01:08:44,104 --> 01:08:47,664
Speaker 2: And so then I was like, so I'm supposed to

1446
01:08:47,704 --> 01:08:50,424
Speaker 2: have this battle with these girls. I'm supposed to get

1447
01:08:50,754 --> 01:08:52,394
Speaker 2: Every other month, I have to fly to New York

1448
01:08:53,034 --> 01:08:56,034
Speaker 2: out of my own pocket. It felt like every moment

1449
01:08:56,054 --> 01:08:59,494
Speaker 2: of progress that I found could easily be snatched back

1450
01:08:59,514 --> 01:09:01,374
Speaker 2: because it was like, well, you know Dominique is navigating

1451
01:09:01,444 --> 01:09:06,244
Speaker 2: this thing. The people in my life knew what was happening,

1452
01:09:06,284 --> 01:09:08,344
Speaker 2: so I was still on the essence stage. I was

1453
01:09:08,404 --> 01:09:12,214
Speaker 2: still I was still thriving yes but when someone knew

1454
01:09:12,284 --> 01:09:14,094
Speaker 2: found out about I would have to have the conversation

1455
01:09:14,134 --> 01:09:18,624
Speaker 2: all over again yeah that's yeah right and so last

1456
01:09:18,644 --> 01:09:22,804
Speaker 2: December they said the judge like put us all in

1457
01:09:22,824 --> 01:09:26,324
Speaker 2: and was like Dominique I'm offering you 30 days and

1458
01:09:26,344 --> 01:09:28,464
Speaker 2: he was like I'm going outside of the prosecution I'm

1459
01:09:28,504 --> 01:09:30,864
Speaker 2: offering you 30 days Because I was just.

1460
01:09:30,784 --> 01:09:32,324
Speaker 3: Like, y'all keep going down. I was like, we're going

1461
01:09:32,344 --> 01:09:33,864
Speaker 3: to fight. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1462
01:09:33,904 --> 01:09:34,484
Speaker 3: Let's dead this.

1463
01:09:34,524 --> 01:09:35,144
Speaker 1: I'm here for the fight.

1464
01:09:35,764 --> 01:09:38,204
Speaker 2: I'm for real. I'm just like, it was almost two

1465
01:09:38,244 --> 01:09:39,104
Speaker 2: years of this case.

1466
01:09:40,704 --> 01:09:42,104
Speaker 3: And the judge looked at me. He was like, it's

1467
01:09:42,204 --> 01:09:43,284
Speaker 3: not going to get better than this.

1468
01:09:45,224 --> 01:09:49,744
Speaker 2: And so January, I went and spent time with my

1469
01:09:49,784 --> 01:09:51,524
Speaker 2: family for New Year's.

1470
01:09:51,604 --> 01:09:53,214
Speaker 3: And I came out of that.

1471
01:09:53,924 --> 01:09:57,314
Speaker 2: My first certification was a program called Alternatives to Violence Project,

1472
01:09:57,394 --> 01:10:01,124
Speaker 2: which I received that certification in prison. And it was

1473
01:10:01,134 --> 01:10:03,644
Speaker 2: started by the guys in Sing Sing years ago. And

1474
01:10:03,684 --> 01:10:07,344
Speaker 2: the foundational part of that is you never have 0%

1475
01:10:07,344 --> 01:10:09,264
Speaker 2: of power and you rarely have 100% of the power.

1476
01:10:09,544 --> 01:10:12,903
Speaker 3: But what you do have... But where your power lies,

1477
01:10:13,464 --> 01:10:14,344
Speaker 3: what are you doing with it?

1478
01:10:16,364 --> 01:10:20,004
Speaker 2: I was like, I'm tired of this. This career in

1479
01:10:20,044 --> 01:10:21,854
Speaker 2: this space, I don't know what... I don't know why

1480
01:10:21,874 --> 01:10:23,294
Speaker 2: I got it. I don't know why a lot of

1481
01:10:23,574 --> 01:10:26,154
Speaker 2: atoms in my inbox. I don't know why, but I

1482
01:10:26,454 --> 01:10:32,704
Speaker 2: want to... feel in control of my life again. And

1483
01:10:32,784 --> 01:10:35,524
Speaker 2: so I was like, I did 10 years. I was like,

1484
01:10:35,744 --> 01:10:38,794
Speaker 2: I was like, can I sit for 30 days and

1485
01:10:38,954 --> 01:10:43,274
Speaker 2: trust that people who want to understand will understand and

1486
01:10:43,374 --> 01:10:45,594
Speaker 2: trust that what the path that I'm on the path

1487
01:10:45,634 --> 01:10:46,234
Speaker 2: that I'm on.

1488
01:10:46,374 --> 01:10:48,854
Speaker 3: And I, I take the, I take the game back.

1489
01:10:49,194 --> 01:10:49,434
Speaker 1: Yes.

1490
01:10:50,234 --> 01:10:50,514
Speaker 3: Right.

1491
01:10:50,714 --> 01:10:53,814
Speaker 2: And I was just like, but 30 days on Rikers is, is,

1492
01:10:53,894 --> 01:10:56,674
Speaker 2: is very different from, you know, incarceration in Nebraska is

1493
01:10:56,734 --> 01:10:58,114
Speaker 2: a thing, but this is Rikers.

1494
01:10:58,554 --> 01:10:58,734
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1495
01:10:59,104 --> 01:11:04,044
Speaker 2: And my attorney was like, you know, Dominique, it's 21 days, actually. So, like,

1496
01:11:04,724 --> 01:11:07,454
Speaker 2: they're still fitting me for dresses for BET Black and Iconic,

1497
01:11:07,464 --> 01:11:08,424
Speaker 2: which was in the May.

1498
01:11:08,454 --> 01:11:08,924
Speaker 1: Oh, my gosh.

1499
01:11:09,034 --> 01:11:10,794
Speaker 2: All these things that happen. I'm at South by Southwest.

1500
01:11:11,054 --> 01:11:14,694
Speaker 2: And because the prosecutors were a bit upset, they asked

1501
01:11:14,714 --> 01:11:16,474
Speaker 2: the judge to remand me for 30 days. So, they

1502
01:11:16,494 --> 01:11:18,654
Speaker 2: got every day. I didn't get any good time.

1503
01:11:18,674 --> 01:11:19,254
Speaker 1: Okay.

1504
01:11:19,714 --> 01:11:26,153
Speaker 3: But that was what I needed.

1505
01:11:26,174 --> 01:11:26,254
Speaker 1: Okay.

1506
01:11:27,774 --> 01:11:31,234
Speaker 2: To see myself right now more than I ever have.

1507
01:11:33,294 --> 01:11:37,724
Speaker 2: Because one, I knew that my presence on social media

1508
01:11:37,744 --> 01:11:41,184
Speaker 2: was having impact. But when I was gone for those

1509
01:11:41,224 --> 01:11:48,464
Speaker 2: four weeks, it's insane how people showed up for me.

1510
01:11:50,044 --> 01:11:51,204
Speaker 3: In all sorts of ways.

1511
01:11:51,984 --> 01:11:55,984
Speaker 2: Whether it's Ayanna Pressley sending me an inbox, whether it's,

1512
01:11:56,344 --> 01:12:03,594
Speaker 2: you know, I realized I further cemented what my purpose was.

1513
01:12:04,794 --> 01:12:08,193
Speaker 2: Those 30 days in there, again, the subject matter expertise

1514
01:12:08,214 --> 01:12:12,174
Speaker 2: of it all. When I'm talking about ICE issues, I

1515
01:12:12,214 --> 01:12:14,654
Speaker 2: sat in there with... And I was in the women's facility.

1516
01:12:14,694 --> 01:12:16,954
Speaker 2: I sat in there with women who were being deported

1517
01:12:17,074 --> 01:12:19,974
Speaker 2: every day and translating for them and helping them call

1518
01:12:19,994 --> 01:12:22,994
Speaker 2: their families. When I'm talking about reproductive justice, yes, I

1519
01:12:23,174 --> 01:12:25,244
Speaker 2: know my sisters around me, they're navigating this, but I

1520
01:12:25,284 --> 01:12:28,304
Speaker 2: was in there... you know, with women who were pregnant

1521
01:12:28,324 --> 01:12:30,484
Speaker 2: and we have to fight for them when I'm helping, like,

1522
01:12:30,784 --> 01:12:34,044
Speaker 2: it was, it was the wildest, it was the most

1523
01:12:34,084 --> 01:12:36,264
Speaker 2: gender affirming thing I ever experienced in a very wild way.

1524
01:12:36,294 --> 01:12:36,354
Speaker 1: Oh.

1525
01:12:37,654 --> 01:12:40,134
Speaker 2: Because to them, I was, it was no question of, like,

1526
01:12:40,174 --> 01:12:42,334
Speaker 2: it wasn't like I, it was like, not only the

1527
01:12:42,374 --> 01:12:43,854
Speaker 2: system put me in there, it was like when I

1528
01:12:44,014 --> 01:12:46,414
Speaker 2: was in, I was in a dorm with like 50

1529
01:12:46,414 --> 01:12:52,574
Speaker 2: other women. Yes. And, uh, Bree, Bree from America's Next

1530
01:12:52,594 --> 01:12:56,284
Speaker 2: Top Model is a counselor on Rikers Island now.

1531
01:12:56,874 --> 01:12:57,694
Speaker 1: Oh my goodness.

1532
01:12:58,434 --> 01:13:00,434
Speaker 3: And like my third day in, I was kind of like,

1533
01:13:00,474 --> 01:13:02,934
Speaker 3: what did you do? Because it was all a gamble.

1534
01:13:04,094 --> 01:13:04,514
Speaker 3: It was.

1535
01:13:04,544 --> 01:13:06,144
Speaker 2: And at the end of the day, I was just like,

1536
01:13:06,184 --> 01:13:07,344
Speaker 2: even if I come out of there and I'm a

1537
01:13:07,384 --> 01:13:10,504
Speaker 2: manager at Home Depot, I'm in control again. I felt

1538
01:13:10,624 --> 01:13:12,844
Speaker 2: so out of control. It felt like I was working,

1539
01:13:12,884 --> 01:13:15,584
Speaker 2: but I didn't have control. And so I took the,

1540
01:13:15,864 --> 01:13:17,784
Speaker 2: I was like, okay, I took it and I sat there,

1541
01:13:17,804 --> 01:13:19,164
Speaker 2: but Bree walked in and she was just like, I

1542
01:13:19,224 --> 01:13:21,934
Speaker 2: know who you are and I know what your purpose is.

1543
01:13:22,474 --> 01:13:25,804
Speaker 2: And I, that moment, was so important for me because

1544
01:13:25,864 --> 01:13:27,344
Speaker 2: it snapped me right back in. I was like, we

1545
01:13:27,364 --> 01:13:31,364
Speaker 2: about to walk these days down. And I knew, I said,

1546
01:13:31,404 --> 01:13:34,424
Speaker 2: I was like, they're going to regret every day I

1547
01:13:34,484 --> 01:13:37,704
Speaker 2: sat here because these girls are never going to be

1548
01:13:37,724 --> 01:13:41,024
Speaker 2: able to open their phone without seeing me. They're never

1549
01:13:41,064 --> 01:13:45,044
Speaker 2: going to be able to turn their TV and.

1550
01:13:44,084 --> 01:13:44,654
Speaker 3: Have to see me.

1551
01:13:45,664 --> 01:13:50,754
Speaker 2: And my work will speak because my work has always

1552
01:13:50,774 --> 01:13:54,414
Speaker 2: been of the people. And that's what happened. is that

1553
01:13:54,694 --> 01:13:56,554
Speaker 2: I made the choice to take the 30 days because

1554
01:13:56,614 --> 01:13:58,874
Speaker 2: I felt like I was in a fight that.

1555
01:13:59,604 --> 01:14:00,504
Speaker 3: No one would have won.

1556
01:14:00,524 --> 01:14:03,604
Speaker 2: And I, one of my biggest fears was waking up

1557
01:14:03,684 --> 01:14:05,884
Speaker 2: and my story ended up on Donald Trump's desk and

1558
01:14:05,924 --> 01:14:06,904
Speaker 2: it being on True Social.

1559
01:14:07,004 --> 01:14:08,624
Speaker 3: I swear to God, every day that was like.

1560
01:14:08,644 --> 01:14:11,574
Speaker 1: That you would become a cause for the right to demonize.

1561
01:14:11,584 --> 01:14:13,154
Speaker 2: My friends were so concerned for me.

1562
01:14:13,194 --> 01:14:14,794
Speaker 3: Get your VP in. Cause you know, I'm going to

1563
01:14:14,814 --> 01:14:15,714
Speaker 3: talk about Riley Gaines.

1564
01:14:15,814 --> 01:14:17,354
Speaker 2: I'm going to talk about, I was like, I don't

1565
01:14:17,454 --> 01:14:20,354
Speaker 2: care because I can't be, I'm not going to be

1566
01:14:20,454 --> 01:14:23,264
Speaker 2: quiet about things that are wrong. But I was just like, I,

1567
01:14:24,724 --> 01:14:26,754
Speaker 2: I got to take my power back and it's not

1568
01:14:26,764 --> 01:14:29,674
Speaker 2: going to be easy and it's not going to be simple,

1569
01:14:29,694 --> 01:14:32,454
Speaker 2: but it's mine. And what I've seen from, I turned

1570
01:14:32,494 --> 01:14:35,074
Speaker 2: myself in April 29th. I came home May 28th.

1571
01:14:36,274 --> 01:14:36,594
Speaker 3: And I.

1572
01:14:38,874 --> 01:14:41,304
Speaker 2: Think what people are most moved by is the fact

1573
01:14:41,364 --> 01:14:48,944
Speaker 2: that you have to know what is meant for you.

1574
01:14:50,804 --> 01:14:52,914
Speaker 2: Like that's the only thing that you really can have definitive.

1575
01:14:54,194 --> 01:14:57,494
Speaker 2: I know I'm meant to do something. I know that.

1576
01:14:57,774 --> 01:15:01,024
Speaker 2: The data shows that I should have been dead. I'm

1577
01:15:01,044 --> 01:15:04,444
Speaker 2: still here. Therefore, I have a purpose. That's the only

1578
01:15:04,464 --> 01:15:07,644
Speaker 2: thing I knew. And going in there, it was one

1579
01:15:07,664 --> 01:15:12,824
Speaker 2: of the scariest things I've ever done. But it gave

1580
01:15:12,844 --> 01:15:14,584
Speaker 2: me my power back in a way that has allowed

1581
01:15:14,624 --> 01:15:17,074
Speaker 2: me to sleep in a way that I haven't in

1582
01:15:17,194 --> 01:15:19,884
Speaker 2: three years. It allows me to have these conversations. Because before,

1583
01:15:19,904 --> 01:15:20,984
Speaker 2: it was like, we're in the middle of a case.

1584
01:15:21,004 --> 01:15:22,664
Speaker 2: People would ask stuff, and I'm like, well, let's talk

1585
01:15:22,714 --> 01:15:25,294
Speaker 2: about it, la, la, la. And I also took my

1586
01:15:25,334 --> 01:15:29,274
Speaker 2: power back before I lost love for serving my community.

1587
01:15:29,294 --> 01:15:29,374
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1588
01:15:30,474 --> 01:15:32,234
Speaker 2: And even before I lost love for those girls, because

1589
01:15:32,254 --> 01:15:35,374
Speaker 2: I think all this came out of scarcity. And the

1590
01:15:35,414 --> 01:15:38,804
Speaker 2: sad truth is, they don't have what they wanted to have.

1591
01:15:39,444 --> 01:15:41,244
Speaker 2: What I thought I wanted to have is not what

1592
01:15:41,284 --> 01:15:42,044
Speaker 2: I ended up with.

1593
01:15:42,064 --> 01:15:43,644
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1594
01:15:44,224 --> 01:15:45,984
Speaker 2: And also, the universe really is putting me on a

1595
01:15:46,004 --> 01:15:48,324
Speaker 2: path that I don't think I would have chosen if

1596
01:15:48,364 --> 01:15:50,104
Speaker 2: I would have stayed where I was. I don't think,

1597
01:15:50,424 --> 01:15:52,504
Speaker 2: I know I wouldn't have because I thought I was

1598
01:15:52,524 --> 01:15:54,444
Speaker 2: so stubborn with like, this is who I'm supposed to be.

1599
01:15:55,044 --> 01:15:57,744
Speaker 2: There's no way I would be figuring out how to

1600
01:15:58,164 --> 01:16:01,144
Speaker 2: talk to millions of people every day about things that

1601
01:16:01,164 --> 01:16:04,304
Speaker 2: I know is changing the world in the way that

1602
01:16:04,344 --> 01:16:04,794
Speaker 2: I'm into.

1603
01:16:07,674 --> 01:16:08,674
Speaker 1: First of all, I just want to thank you because

1604
01:16:08,694 --> 01:16:12,254
Speaker 1: that was very generous of you to tell that whole story. And,

1605
01:16:12,694 --> 01:16:15,334
Speaker 1: you know, because of the nature of the internet and

1606
01:16:15,354 --> 01:16:18,264
Speaker 1: social media, it's just hard to parse apart and find,

1607
01:16:18,344 --> 01:16:20,444
Speaker 1: even find you telling it that directly, because if I

1608
01:16:20,504 --> 01:16:23,364
Speaker 1: Google your name on, on, on YouTube, it's a bunch

1609
01:16:23,384 --> 01:16:25,634
Speaker 1: of people talking about you, you know, and.

1610
01:16:25,624 --> 01:16:27,614
Speaker 3: If I Google your name. And then you become content, right?

1611
01:16:27,634 --> 01:16:28,454
Speaker 3: You become content.

1612
01:16:28,554 --> 01:16:30,794
Speaker 2: And that's, I think that's the other thing that I realized,

1613
01:16:30,914 --> 01:16:34,694
Speaker 2: even as a creator, I already had a level of values,

1614
01:16:34,734 --> 01:16:37,734
Speaker 2: but I was just like, I'm never going to speak

1615
01:16:37,774 --> 01:16:43,184
Speaker 2: about people in a way that diminish, diminishes them In

1616
01:16:43,224 --> 01:16:46,244
Speaker 2: a way that is irreparable, especially with no true investment.

1617
01:16:46,264 --> 01:16:48,644
Speaker 3: Because most of the videos you will see, they don't

1618
01:16:48,684 --> 01:16:49,034
Speaker 3: know me.

1619
01:16:49,374 --> 01:16:49,544
Speaker 1: No.

1620
01:16:49,754 --> 01:16:52,114
Speaker 2: They're trying to pay their rent. You know what I'm saying?

1621
01:16:52,154 --> 01:16:55,874
Speaker 2: And so you have to sit with that. And when

1622
01:16:55,894 --> 01:16:57,514
Speaker 2: people ask me, as you did before we started, like,

1623
01:16:57,574 --> 01:17:02,094
Speaker 2: is anything off limits? Nothing's off limits because I put

1624
01:17:02,134 --> 01:17:03,934
Speaker 2: everything on the line for nothing to be off limits.

1625
01:17:04,894 --> 01:17:05,934
Speaker 3: It's all mine again. Yeah.

1626
01:17:06,964 --> 01:17:10,124
Speaker 2: And that's how I want to live my life.

1627
01:17:11,464 --> 01:17:13,884
Speaker 1: So I got three questions for you. One is, what

1628
01:17:13,904 --> 01:17:17,194
Speaker 1: do you wish people who don't, who are just coming

1629
01:17:17,234 --> 01:17:19,954
Speaker 1: to you or coming to understand trans folk, especially Black

1630
01:17:19,994 --> 01:17:22,254
Speaker 1: trans women, what do you wish they knew? Or what

1631
01:17:22,294 --> 01:17:25,454
Speaker 1: could you tell them that you feel like you are

1632
01:17:25,474 --> 01:17:26,694
Speaker 1: getting us wrong?

1633
01:17:28,864 --> 01:17:34,384
Speaker 2: I think that people are making the mistake of navigating

1634
01:17:34,484 --> 01:17:39,144
Speaker 2: us as an entire unit and not individuals. And what

1635
01:17:39,204 --> 01:17:42,444
Speaker 2: I mean by that is there is the Black trans experience. Specifically,

1636
01:17:42,464 --> 01:17:44,444
Speaker 2: when people are talking about Black trans, people are talking

1637
01:17:44,464 --> 01:17:45,264
Speaker 2: about Black trans women.

1638
01:17:45,344 --> 01:17:47,064
Speaker 1: Yes.

1639
01:17:47,204 --> 01:17:51,164
Speaker 2: But when we don't look at an individualized experience, it, one,

1640
01:17:51,204 --> 01:17:53,084
Speaker 2: diminishes the fact that in your transition, you still have

1641
01:17:53,124 --> 01:17:54,534
Speaker 2: to mature as a human being.

1642
01:17:54,874 --> 01:17:55,094
Speaker 1: Yes.

1643
01:17:55,754 --> 01:17:58,774
Speaker 3: Estrogen doesn't make you have, like, you know what I'm saying?

1644
01:17:58,814 --> 01:17:59,674
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1645
01:17:59,734 --> 01:18:02,294
Speaker 3: It's not Jim and the holograms. Like, you know, Showtime synergy.

1646
01:18:02,354 --> 01:18:03,414
Speaker 3: It's not that. I wish it was.

1647
01:18:03,434 --> 01:18:06,734
Speaker 2: That would be so fab. But it's not that. And

1648
01:18:06,794 --> 01:18:10,224
Speaker 2: so y'all will meet Black trans women. Who are not

1649
01:18:10,964 --> 01:18:16,804
Speaker 2: emotionally regulated. They're just a shitty person. And that means

1650
01:18:16,904 --> 01:18:20,384
Speaker 2: black and trans isn't why. It's because they haven't grown up.

1651
01:18:20,484 --> 01:18:20,944
Speaker 2: It's the same.

1652
01:18:21,304 --> 01:18:22,534
Speaker 3: And if they do transition today.

1653
01:18:22,544 --> 01:18:24,504
Speaker 1: It's because there's shitty people out there of all types

1654
01:18:24,574 --> 01:18:25,594
Speaker 1: and shapes and sizes.

1655
01:18:25,654 --> 01:18:29,154
Speaker 2: And if they do transition today, they'd still be a

1656
01:18:29,174 --> 01:18:30,674
Speaker 2: shitty person that has to grow up.

1657
01:18:31,354 --> 01:18:31,774
Speaker 3: You feel me?

1658
01:18:31,814 --> 01:18:34,034
Speaker 2: So I think we're not navigating trans folks as human

1659
01:18:34,074 --> 01:18:36,074
Speaker 2: beings because I think so many folks are making the

1660
01:18:36,114 --> 01:18:39,744
Speaker 2: mistake of, associating their social media experience with Black trans

1661
01:18:39,804 --> 01:18:42,244
Speaker 2: folks to their real experience. And I always say, most

1662
01:18:42,284 --> 01:18:43,424
Speaker 2: folks don't know trans folks.

1663
01:18:44,204 --> 01:18:44,524
Speaker 1: For sure.

1664
01:18:45,564 --> 01:18:46,044
Speaker 3: You don't.

1665
01:18:46,344 --> 01:18:47,844
Speaker 1: Or don't know that they know trans folks.

1666
01:18:48,074 --> 01:18:50,114
Speaker 2: Or don't know that they know them, or definitely don't

1667
01:18:50,154 --> 01:18:54,014
Speaker 2: have the level of intimate relationship that would give sense

1668
01:18:54,814 --> 01:18:57,534
Speaker 2: to the way that trans folks are living in your mind.

1669
01:18:58,254 --> 01:19:00,674
Speaker 2: I'm like, what trans person did something wrong to you?

1670
01:19:00,724 --> 01:19:05,194
Speaker 2: I mean, tell me, because I know everybody. I pull up.

1671
01:19:05,204 --> 01:19:05,844
Speaker 3: You'll talk to them.

1672
01:19:06,144 --> 01:19:07,924
Speaker 1: No, for real. Yeah, I know. I know you for real.

1673
01:19:07,944 --> 01:19:10,464
Speaker 2: Because this thing you're doing, for real, because I'm like, yo,

1674
01:19:10,824 --> 01:19:12,734
Speaker 2: I'm never going to talk to this lady because she's a,

1675
01:19:12,994 --> 01:19:16,294
Speaker 2: it's just a mess. But I'd be like, Tasha K,

1676
01:19:16,334 --> 01:19:19,024
Speaker 2: what trans person hurt you? Because I want to go

1677
01:19:19,044 --> 01:19:21,924
Speaker 2: talk to them because what they did is making you

1678
01:19:21,964 --> 01:19:27,424
Speaker 2: do something that is causing bigger hurt. And we're 0.01

1679
01:19:27,424 --> 01:19:31,014
Speaker 2: of the population, all trans people. And that ain't factoring

1680
01:19:31,034 --> 01:19:33,894
Speaker 2: just the black population. And I never want to dismiss fear.

1681
01:19:33,914 --> 01:19:36,874
Speaker 2: I want us to unpack what is it rooted in

1682
01:19:38,314 --> 01:19:39,574
Speaker 2: and how do we navigate it?

1683
01:19:40,734 --> 01:19:44,234
Speaker 3: You feel me? Like, okay, cool, but let's talk about it.

1684
01:19:44,254 --> 01:19:45,574
Speaker 3: And so that's what I want them to know.

1685
01:19:45,494 --> 01:19:50,474
Speaker 2: That we deserve to be treated through our individual experiences

1686
01:19:50,514 --> 01:19:54,554
Speaker 2: with you. And it will allow you to see the

1687
01:19:54,634 --> 01:19:58,164
Speaker 2: humanity in not the trans experience in us. And you'll

1688
01:19:58,204 --> 01:20:00,904
Speaker 2: realize that again, you may not like that person. We

1689
01:20:00,924 --> 01:20:03,824
Speaker 2: don't like that. If that person shaved their head and

1690
01:20:03,844 --> 01:20:05,584
Speaker 2: they grew out a beard, you would still not like

1691
01:20:05,884 --> 01:20:06,304
Speaker 2: that person.

1692
01:20:06,324 --> 01:20:07,724
Speaker 3: It's not because they're black and trans.

1693
01:20:07,744 --> 01:20:09,684
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

1694
01:20:10,604 --> 01:20:14,834
Speaker 3: If they did transition detransition, you would accept them being

1695
01:20:14,874 --> 01:20:15,394
Speaker 3: a terrible person.

1696
01:20:15,434 --> 01:20:17,484
Speaker 1: If they were a man, Yeah, you wouldn't put it

1697
01:20:17,564 --> 01:20:20,164
Speaker 1: on all men. You would say, that man is an asshole.

1698
01:20:20,804 --> 01:20:27,004
Speaker 2: If Blueface transitioned today, you have delegations upon delegations of

1699
01:20:27,074 --> 01:20:29,454
Speaker 2: women who are like, at least he's honest. If Blueface

1700
01:20:29,494 --> 01:20:35,294
Speaker 2: transitioned today, they would undo him in a microsecond. I

1701
01:20:35,314 --> 01:20:37,634
Speaker 2: always say, people are like, oh, listen, when I looked

1702
01:20:37,654 --> 01:20:39,984
Speaker 2: at some of the videos about me, if I wanted

1703
01:20:40,044 --> 01:20:42,184
Speaker 2: to get over on anybody, I would detransition and become

1704
01:20:42,224 --> 01:20:48,834
Speaker 2: a pastor. If I wanted to be Lex Luthor personified

1705
01:20:49,674 --> 01:20:54,594
Speaker 2: and still be okay, I would detransition and I would

1706
01:20:54,814 --> 01:20:55,334
Speaker 2: start a church.

1707
01:20:55,434 --> 01:21:01,624
Speaker 1: You would be wealthy in a year. You would be funded.

1708
01:21:02,284 --> 01:21:04,004
Speaker 1: You'd have Peter Thiel money.

1709
01:21:04,464 --> 01:21:05,884
Speaker 3: Oh my God. You know what I'm saying? This is

1710
01:21:06,004 --> 01:21:06,744
Speaker 3: a journey.

1711
01:21:07,004 --> 01:21:09,964
Speaker 2: This isn't a third. It's just like the grace that's there.

1712
01:21:10,024 --> 01:21:11,804
Speaker 2: And so, yeah, that's what I want them to know.

1713
01:21:11,824 --> 01:21:15,944
Speaker 2: Navigate us as individuals and you'll find out... yes, the

1714
01:21:15,984 --> 01:21:18,824
Speaker 2: craziness that we all possess, but you'll get a deeper

1715
01:21:18,844 --> 01:21:21,704
Speaker 2: understanding of like how dope we are because as human beings,

1716
01:21:21,744 --> 01:21:22,264
Speaker 2: we're dope.

1717
01:21:22,404 --> 01:21:23,004
Speaker 3: You know what I'm saying?

1718
01:21:23,024 --> 01:21:25,394
Speaker 2: All people have something dope about them, but you don't

1719
01:21:25,434 --> 01:21:26,874
Speaker 2: know that unless you have a relationship.

1720
01:21:29,174 --> 01:21:31,374
Speaker 1: This has been such a great conversation. And certainly I would,

1721
01:21:31,594 --> 01:21:33,934
Speaker 1: I hope to talk to you more just in life,

1722
01:21:34,014 --> 01:21:36,404
Speaker 1: but also in these formats. Cause I think it is.

1723
01:21:36,454 --> 01:21:38,634
Speaker 1: So the way you talk about this is so like,

1724
01:21:38,654 --> 01:21:40,474
Speaker 1: this is like just a long Instagram video. I just

1725
01:21:40,544 --> 01:21:41,864
Speaker 1: watched a view, but I get to, I get to

1726
01:21:41,924 --> 01:21:44,324
Speaker 1: ask questions. So thank you for the generosity of being here.

1727
01:21:44,704 --> 01:21:45,204
Speaker 3: Absolutely.

1728
01:21:45,224 --> 01:21:49,124
Speaker 1: I always ask people if there's a cause or nonprofit

1729
01:21:49,144 --> 01:21:51,564
Speaker 1: that people want to support or shout out or anything

1730
01:21:51,664 --> 01:21:53,084
Speaker 1: just to give people, because I like to give my

1731
01:21:53,124 --> 01:21:54,164
Speaker 1: audience homework.

1732
01:21:54,374 --> 01:21:55,304
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah.

1733
01:21:56,114 --> 01:21:59,714
Speaker 2: In regards to causes and movements, Black and Pink National, always.

1734
01:21:59,834 --> 01:22:02,514
Speaker 2: Black and Pink is the largest prison abolitionist organization. And

1735
01:22:03,214 --> 01:22:06,234
Speaker 2: Black and Pink centers LGBTQ plus incarcerated people, but they

1736
01:22:06,274 --> 01:22:09,144
Speaker 2: serve everyone. And so the work of Black and Pink

1737
01:22:09,204 --> 01:22:14,124
Speaker 2: is super important. Maryland Safe Haven. Aya Damon's and the

1738
01:22:14,164 --> 01:22:16,784
Speaker 2: work that she is doing with Governor Wes Moore is

1739
01:22:16,824 --> 01:22:22,964
Speaker 2: incredible there. And just really the work of Sister Song

1740
01:22:23,154 --> 01:22:27,314
Speaker 2: at the Space of Reproductive Justice and Care. Monica is

1741
01:22:27,334 --> 01:22:31,494
Speaker 2: about to have her 16th anniversary event on October 10th.

1742
01:22:32,434 --> 01:22:34,954
Speaker 2: I started the Sex Worker Liberation Project at Black and Pink.

1743
01:22:35,834 --> 01:22:39,574
Speaker 2: And I built it because there was a workforce development

1744
01:22:39,674 --> 01:22:42,854
Speaker 2: innovation group grant out of Oakland. And I was like, Well,

1745
01:22:42,934 --> 01:22:47,274
Speaker 2: sex work is work. I submitted it. Honey, they knocked

1746
01:22:47,314 --> 01:22:52,364
Speaker 2: us down. Monica gave us the first $ 50, 000 to start

1747
01:22:52,374 --> 01:22:55,524
Speaker 2: the project. A year later, I won that innovation prize.

1748
01:22:56,024 --> 01:22:59,004
Speaker 2: And other people came on. And I've been thinking about

1749
01:22:59,024 --> 01:23:01,144
Speaker 2: this a lot with the stuff that's happening with Shanteria

1750
01:23:01,184 --> 01:23:04,714
Speaker 2: Mosley out of Atlanta. The young black girl was door

1751
01:23:04,754 --> 01:23:09,294
Speaker 2: dashing and unalive, body dismembered by this 18-year-old young man.

1752
01:23:09,314 --> 01:23:11,114
Speaker 2: And now people are saying, you know, there was sex

1753
01:23:11,134 --> 01:23:14,344
Speaker 2: work involved. And so when I think about Monica, there's

1754
01:23:14,374 --> 01:23:17,234
Speaker 2: just all those times that Monica said yes. Working in

1755
01:23:17,254 --> 01:23:20,354
Speaker 2: an industry where people would have easily said no to

1756
01:23:20,394 --> 01:23:21,174
Speaker 2: a black trans woman.

1757
01:23:21,194 --> 01:23:22,154
Speaker 3: So sister song work.

1758
01:23:23,214 --> 01:23:25,674
Speaker 2: And then personally, you know, my sub stack is where

1759
01:23:25,714 --> 01:23:28,704
Speaker 2: like my videos, my videos allow me to have the

1760
01:23:28,764 --> 01:23:29,644
Speaker 2: engagement that I would have.

1761
01:23:29,684 --> 01:23:32,104
Speaker 3: Like if we're friends, I'm a voice note girly. Yeah.

1762
01:23:32,264 --> 01:23:33,864
Speaker 2: The shit that comes in my mind like, hey, did

1763
01:23:33,884 --> 01:23:36,444
Speaker 2: you think about this? It allows me to have that

1764
01:23:36,504 --> 01:23:40,304
Speaker 2: type of cadence. My sub stack is where. I get

1765
01:23:40,344 --> 01:23:42,334
Speaker 2: to bring all my ideas together and I get to

1766
01:23:42,374 --> 01:23:45,274
Speaker 2: dive into them deeper and I get to create a

1767
01:23:45,374 --> 01:23:48,014
Speaker 2: couch for people to sit on again and not to

1768
01:23:48,074 --> 01:23:51,314
Speaker 2: tell people what to think, but to ask them to think.

1769
01:23:52,034 --> 01:23:54,034
Speaker 2: And I'm putting my things out there and like, let's

1770
01:23:54,134 --> 01:23:58,354
Speaker 2: unpack it. I'm starting, you know, the Imaginarium really where

1771
01:23:58,374 --> 01:24:01,754
Speaker 2: my Discovering Your Power, my curriculum lives there. I launched

1772
01:24:01,874 --> 01:24:05,414
Speaker 2: Auntie's Imaginarium yesterday, work that'll be just for young people.

1773
01:24:05,894 --> 01:24:08,134
Speaker 2: I constantly want to show my community like, yo, this

1774
01:24:08,174 --> 01:24:10,254
Speaker 2: is how I'm telling y'all how I'm going to be

1775
01:24:10,294 --> 01:24:10,854
Speaker 2: of service.

1776
01:24:11,674 --> 01:24:16,004
Speaker 1: My final question, easy. Podcast is called Who's With Me.

1777
01:24:16,424 --> 01:24:16,984
Speaker 1: Are you with me?

1778
01:24:17,824 --> 01:24:20,024
Speaker 3: I am with you, sir. Absolutely.

1779
01:24:20,344 --> 01:24:20,784
Speaker 1: Absolutely.

1780
01:24:20,824 --> 01:24:27,984
Speaker 3: You're needed. You are needed. Patriarchy is a bitch. And, you.

1781
01:24:29,484 --> 01:24:31,164
Speaker 2: Know, I have a list of like TED Talk titles

1782
01:24:31,264 --> 01:24:32,734
Speaker 2: that if they call me, I'd be ready.

1783
01:24:32,974 --> 01:24:33,674
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1784
01:24:33,714 --> 01:24:37,524
Speaker 2: It's a title that, you know, T'Challa didn't decide who

1785
01:24:37,684 --> 01:24:39,184
Speaker 2: he was the king of. He was just the king

1786
01:24:39,224 --> 01:24:42,584
Speaker 2: of Wakanda. And it talks about... For me, it's just

1787
01:24:42,644 --> 01:24:47,214
Speaker 2: like the importance of strong, intelligent, steadfast Black men in

1788
01:24:47,274 --> 01:24:51,174
Speaker 2: our community are so needed. And people like you and

1789
01:24:51,254 --> 01:24:55,734
Speaker 2: Kev represent those brothers. And so I'm with you in

1790
01:24:55,774 --> 01:24:57,164
Speaker 2: regards to the work you do.

1791
01:24:57,944 --> 01:24:58,704
Speaker 3: But as.

1792
01:25:00,764 --> 01:25:04,484
Speaker 2: Your people, it's like, no, I'm with you because... We

1793
01:25:04,564 --> 01:25:07,084
Speaker 2: really need leadership, and we need leadership of people who

1794
01:25:07,224 --> 01:25:10,224
Speaker 2: are not idiots. And I'm grateful you're not an idiot.

1795
01:25:11,064 --> 01:25:13,334
Speaker 1: I'm going to put that in my bio. I'm so grateful.

1796
01:25:13,344 --> 01:25:15,694
Speaker 1: I'm grateful Kamau's not an idiot. And I'm going to

1797
01:25:15,714 --> 01:25:17,874
Speaker 1: take from this podcast so much. But one of the

1798
01:25:17,894 --> 01:25:19,334
Speaker 1: things I'm going to take from it, because it just

1799
01:25:19,354 --> 01:25:21,314
Speaker 1: really struck with me, I'm going to walk these days down.

1800
01:25:21,334 --> 01:25:22,954
Speaker 1: Because I feel like that will help me get through

1801
01:25:22,974 --> 01:25:25,374
Speaker 1: the day so many times. I'm just going to walk

1802
01:25:25,414 --> 01:25:27,824
Speaker 1: these days down. I know I'm not going to go

1803
01:25:27,864 --> 01:25:29,804
Speaker 1: through what you went through in Rikers, but it does

1804
01:25:29,844 --> 01:25:31,804
Speaker 1: help me sort of lock in, we've got to walk

1805
01:25:31,824 --> 01:25:32,504
Speaker 1: these days down.

1806
01:25:33,024 --> 01:25:34,384
Speaker 3: We got to walk them down. We'll get to the

1807
01:25:34,404 --> 01:25:34,944
Speaker 3: other side.

1808
01:25:35,184 --> 01:25:38,044
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. Thank you so much for being here. This

1809
01:25:38,084 --> 01:25:43,274
Speaker 1: was truly a pleasure. Thanks for listening to who's with me.

1810
01:25:43,394 --> 01:25:46,174
Speaker 1: That was my conversation with Dominique Morgan. Dominique Morgan has

1811
01:25:46,214 --> 01:25:48,514
Speaker 1: a sub stack. You can find her at the Dominique

1812
01:25:48,534 --> 01:25:50,954
Speaker 1: Morgan on sub stack. And also you can follow her

1813
01:25:50,994 --> 01:25:55,134
Speaker 1: on Instagram and social media channels. Again, great follow tells

1814
01:25:55,174 --> 01:25:58,644
Speaker 1: it exactly like she thinks it is. It throws, throws

1815
01:25:58,684 --> 01:26:00,784
Speaker 1: high heat. So yeah, check out Dominique Morgan. I was

1816
01:26:00,804 --> 01:26:05,374
Speaker 1: glad to have her on the podcast today. Again, my book, Rock, Paper, Scissors, Cheese,

1817
01:26:05,414 --> 01:26:09,194
Speaker 1: is out. Again, Mahogany Mommies, the new fall drop is in,

1818
01:26:09,734 --> 01:26:13,294
Speaker 1: so you can go to mahoganymommies.com, use the code WKB

1819
01:26:13,334 --> 01:26:18,064
Speaker 1: to get a discount. Again, Facing Race, the Oakland Public Library,

1820
01:26:18,124 --> 01:26:21,464
Speaker 1: November 7th at the Oakland Public Library, November 14th at

1821
01:26:21,504 --> 01:26:24,564
Speaker 1: Facing Race. All right, so all those links are in

1822
01:26:24,584 --> 01:26:28,724
Speaker 1: the show notes. Also, Dominique mentions some organizations she wants

1823
01:26:28,784 --> 01:26:32,294
Speaker 1: us to support. So we got blackandpink.org, which is a

1824
01:26:32,714 --> 01:26:36,194
Speaker 1: LGBTQ +, focus on the plus because a lot of

1825
01:26:36,214 --> 01:26:39,854
Speaker 1: things after the plus, prison abolitionist group that supports the

1826
01:26:39,954 --> 01:26:43,824
Speaker 1: LGBTQ plus community. We got Maryland Safe Haven, which the

1827
01:26:43,864 --> 01:26:48,904
Speaker 1: current email address is baltimoresafehaven.org. It connects individuals and families

1828
01:26:49,244 --> 01:26:52,324
Speaker 1: to housing stability, health services, and the community support they

1829
01:26:52,364 --> 01:26:54,794
Speaker 1: need to thrive. The last one is one that I

1830
01:26:54,834 --> 01:26:57,114
Speaker 1: know about but happy to support, SisterSong, which you can

1831
01:26:57,134 --> 01:27:00,634
Speaker 1: go to at sistersong.net. They are a black woman founded

1832
01:27:00,674 --> 01:27:04,674
Speaker 1: and led reproductive justice organization, and they are so focused

1833
01:27:04,694 --> 01:27:07,874
Speaker 1: on reproductive justice that SisterSong is credited with coining the

1834
01:27:07,954 --> 01:27:11,834
Speaker 1: term reproductive justice in 1994. So they know what they're

1835
01:27:11,854 --> 01:27:15,474
Speaker 1: doing there. Support those three organizations. Thank you for listening

1836
01:27:15,494 --> 01:27:17,814
Speaker 1: to the podcast this week. As you can see, I'm

1837
01:27:17,834 --> 01:27:22,154
Speaker 1: recording here at Rabbit Grin Productions in Glendale. Thanks to

1838
01:27:22,214 --> 01:27:24,544
Speaker 1: Rabbit Grin Productions, just generally, but also thanks for letting

1839
01:27:24,554 --> 01:27:27,334
Speaker 1: me record this time in Glendale. Thanks to Pushkin Industries.

1840
01:27:27,594 --> 01:27:29,454
Speaker 1: Thanks to Who Knows Best Productions, which is me and

1841
01:27:29,494 --> 01:27:34,034
Speaker 1: my wife. Special thanks to Chris Dowd from Fishbone. Fishbone

1842
01:27:34,054 --> 01:27:36,004
Speaker 1: is on tour. Check them out. They just got back

1843
01:27:36,084 --> 01:27:38,404
Speaker 1: from doing a bunch of dates overseas, but they're back

1844
01:27:38,424 --> 01:27:40,784
Speaker 1: here now. And finally, as I always say, do something

1845
01:27:40,804 --> 01:27:43,994
Speaker 1: good for yourself, for your community, and for the world.

1846
01:27:44,894 --> 01:27:47,254
Speaker 1: We voted. Now let's keep doing good things.