WEBVTT - Elon Consolidates His Empire 0:00:02.480 --> 0:00:07.080 Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news. 0:00:07.920 --> 0:00:09.520 Let me tell you we have a new star. 0:00:10.520 --> 0:00:14.680 A star is born Elon mars Juson Kennemy. 0:00:14.880 --> 0:00:18.440 He is the Thomas Edison plus plus plus of our age. 0:00:18.600 --> 0:00:21.040 Probably his whole life is from a position of insecurity. 0:00:21.040 --> 0:00:21.800 I feel for the guy. 0:00:22.040 --> 0:00:25.360 I would say ninety eight percent really appreciate what he does. 0:00:25.400 --> 0:00:26.920 But those two percent. 0:00:26.640 --> 0:00:29.840 That are nasty, they are I'll pay in full post. 0:00:30.280 --> 0:00:32.280 We are meant for great things in the United States 0:00:32.320 --> 0:00:34.560 of America, and Elon reminds. 0:00:34.320 --> 0:00:37.760 Us of that we don't have a fourth branch of 0:00:37.880 --> 0:00:40.159 governments called Elon Musk. 0:00:46.760 --> 0:00:50.000 Welcome to Elon, a Bloomberg's weekly podcast about Elon Musk. 0:00:50.040 --> 0:00:53.640 It's Tuesday, April First, I'm your host, David Papadopolis. 0:00:54.160 --> 0:00:54.400 Now. 0:00:54.440 --> 0:00:58.120 On Friday night, Elon snuck out an announcement that, as 0:00:58.320 --> 0:01:01.720 longtime listeners of this show was a long time coming. 0:01:02.160 --> 0:01:06.480 His AI company Xai had acquired his social media company 0:01:06.920 --> 0:01:10.000 x And, a deal that values the new joint company 0:01:10.040 --> 0:01:13.520 at over one hundred billion dollars. Shades of Tesla buying 0:01:13.560 --> 0:01:16.480 Solar City, a sign of things to come in the 0:01:16.520 --> 0:01:21.039 world of AI. Both and then in Wisconsin today is 0:01:21.120 --> 0:01:24.000 election day for the Musk funded race between a conservative 0:01:24.040 --> 0:01:27.720 and liberal judge. The stakes are high, although perhaps not 0:01:27.800 --> 0:01:31.800 as high as Musk has been suggesting. All this comes 0:01:31.840 --> 0:01:34.240 as Tesla's stock price has been ping ponged up and 0:01:34.280 --> 0:01:37.080 down by Tariff News and has protests of the brand 0:01:37.120 --> 0:01:40.920 show no sign of slowing down. To talk about X, 0:01:41.120 --> 0:01:44.080 were joined by one of our regulars, Max chaffickin Hello 0:01:44.120 --> 0:01:47.800 to you, Max, Hello, Papa. Okay, Now we're good. This 0:01:47.840 --> 0:01:52.320 is the first introduction of popns and our social media 0:01:52.360 --> 0:01:55.720 reporter and by far the best high school quarterback has 0:01:55.800 --> 0:01:58.280 ever been on this show. Kurt Wagner Kurt. 0:01:58.040 --> 0:01:59.960 Hello, Hey, thank you for having me. 0:02:00.440 --> 0:02:04.480 And later on Dana Hall, our other regular will swing 0:02:04.560 --> 0:02:08.640 by to talk Wisconsin politics. We actually have a surprise 0:02:09.200 --> 0:02:12.400 to start us off here. Max, You've got something that's 0:02:12.440 --> 0:02:14.000 coming later this week. Tell us about it. 0:02:14.040 --> 0:02:17.519 Yeah, David, So later in the show. Not to spoil things, 0:02:17.520 --> 0:02:19.160 but we will be talking about a little bundle of 0:02:19.240 --> 0:02:22.040 joy that Elon has. But but I have my own 0:02:22.160 --> 0:02:26.239 bundle of joy that's coming in your podcast feed this week. 0:02:26.440 --> 0:02:29.920 On Friday, we'll have a the first episode of a 0:02:30.000 --> 0:02:31.840 new show called Everybody's Business. 0:02:32.200 --> 0:02:36.560 It's I like that name. It's about business, it's and everybody. 0:02:36.639 --> 0:02:37.919 It's a little bit like Elon Inc. 0:02:38.080 --> 0:02:41.400 It's gonna be me and Stacey Vannox Smith, who people 0:02:41.560 --> 0:02:46.120 probably know from Marketplace, Planet Money, the Indicator. She's done 0:02:46.200 --> 0:02:48.640 tons of reporting about markets and business. 0:02:48.880 --> 0:02:51.320 She's going to carry money. Yeah, she's going to carry 0:02:51.360 --> 0:02:51.919 the show. 0:02:51.720 --> 0:02:56.400 And we're gonna have a rotating crew of other experts guests. 0:02:56.480 --> 0:02:59.760 It's gonna be fun and we're really excited. 0:02:59.360 --> 0:03:00.000 For everyone to hear. 0:03:00.240 --> 0:03:03.399 So you're gonna hear it in your podcast feed on Friday, 0:03:03.440 --> 0:03:05.280 and then for the next few weeks it'll be here 0:03:05.400 --> 0:03:07.760 in the e lining feed. But we're hoping that when 0:03:07.800 --> 0:03:11.399 the show launches for real in May, you will come 0:03:11.440 --> 0:03:12.480 over with us to our own. 0:03:12.360 --> 0:03:14.320 No, we're not just hoping, we're insisting yet. 0:03:14.480 --> 0:03:15.160 We're commanded this. 0:03:15.280 --> 0:03:19.120 We're demanding. Right, you're dropping in in the feed on Friday, now, 0:03:19.120 --> 0:03:21.440 well Friday going forward, will that be the day it'll 0:03:21.480 --> 0:03:22.280 always come out on? 0:03:22.520 --> 0:03:24.280 That will be the day it'll it'll come out on 0:03:24.320 --> 0:03:27.560 Friday kind of hopefully help people make sense of what 0:03:27.639 --> 0:03:30.240 happened in the world of business for the past few days. 0:03:30.360 --> 0:03:31.480 Get ready for the weekend. 0:03:32.080 --> 0:03:35.760 Yeah, that sounds great. Okay, very good. Okay, we're gonna 0:03:36.000 --> 0:03:40.440 start off here and talk about that late night news 0:03:40.520 --> 0:03:45.360 that broke on Friday, x AI purchasing x But to 0:03:45.400 --> 0:03:47.520 get us started here on it, we're gonna go back 0:03:47.560 --> 0:03:51.960 to December when one Kurt Wagner said this, I. 0:03:51.920 --> 0:03:54.960 Got two predictions for this year for Elon Musk. The 0:03:54.960 --> 0:03:58.840 first is that he's gonna fold x social network formerly 0:03:58.920 --> 0:04:02.920 known as Twitter into Xai. So it's going to be 0:04:02.920 --> 0:04:06.440 a way for him to basically salvage that you know, 0:04:06.560 --> 0:04:09.120 struggling business, get investors away out bang. 0:04:09.280 --> 0:04:11.920 That's what I'm talking about. Wagner. Huh. 0:04:11.960 --> 0:04:15.080 I just feel like people spend huge sums of money 0:04:15.160 --> 0:04:16.640 on intelligence and various things. 0:04:16.640 --> 0:04:18.520 They could just listen to our podcast and they would 0:04:18.600 --> 0:04:20.359 know what is going to happen. 0:04:20.640 --> 0:04:23.200 Just listen to Kurt Wagner. Well done, sir. By the way, 0:04:23.240 --> 0:04:26.960 what was your other prediction and has it flopped on you? 0:04:27.920 --> 0:04:29.680 Well, first off, thank you for having me back for 0:04:29.760 --> 0:04:33.040 this victory lap. This is all I've ever dreamt about 0:04:33.160 --> 0:04:37.000 since December. Honestly, I think my other prediction was that 0:04:37.120 --> 0:04:40.599 Elon Donald Trump will go on a boy's trip to 0:04:40.680 --> 0:04:43.000 visit I may have said Kim Jong un. But I 0:04:43.000 --> 0:04:45.560 think Vladimir Putin should fall into that camp as well, 0:04:45.560 --> 0:04:47.520 and I still think that's a real possibility. 0:04:47.560 --> 0:04:49.840 He's on the verge of two for two. All right, 0:04:49.920 --> 0:04:52.840 that's very good, way, way way better than me. I'm 0:04:52.880 --> 0:04:55.800 oh for so far. But let's focus on this one. 0:04:56.240 --> 0:04:59.480 Give us a little bit of a little bit more 0:04:59.520 --> 0:05:01.960 of a cent. So what you were thinking at the time, 0:05:02.880 --> 0:05:07.000 and in turn, what your understanding of the particulars of 0:05:07.040 --> 0:05:08.280 this deal now is. 0:05:09.480 --> 0:05:12.800 Well, I think it kind of shaped up how I thought, 0:05:12.800 --> 0:05:15.000 which is that it feels like this is a deal 0:05:15.080 --> 0:05:20.360 specifically tailored to bail out X investors, Right, and think 0:05:20.400 --> 0:05:23.000 about it this way. If you are an investor in X. 0:05:23.160 --> 0:05:26.839 A week ago, you had shares in what has mostly 0:05:26.839 --> 0:05:29.919 been a struggling social networking company with an ADS business 0:05:29.960 --> 0:05:32.440 that is about half the size that it was when 0:05:32.440 --> 0:05:36.080 Elon acquired it, with no real reason to think that 0:05:36.080 --> 0:05:40.800 that was going to change anytime soon. Suddenly your investment 0:05:41.200 --> 0:05:45.680 is now part of an AI startup that is worth 0:05:45.920 --> 0:05:48.839 three times the amount of money, and you really didn't 0:05:48.839 --> 0:05:52.880 lose any money. Right, he acquired the company Xai acquired 0:05:53.000 --> 0:05:54.960 X at roughly the same price that he paid for 0:05:55.000 --> 0:05:57.040 it two and a half years ago. So you just 0:05:57.160 --> 0:05:59.880 take your money from a business that has low ups 0:06:00.240 --> 0:06:03.840 to a business with very high upside. And I think 0:06:04.080 --> 0:06:07.000 this was really a way to make X investors whole 0:06:07.040 --> 0:06:09.960 and give them something more optimistic to look forward to. 0:06:10.360 --> 0:06:12.839 Yeah, and I will say on that point that being 0:06:12.880 --> 0:06:16.120 made whole is a hell of a lot better than 0:06:16.160 --> 0:06:18.479 the way it looked at multiple points over the past 0:06:18.520 --> 0:06:20.560 couple years. I think Fidelity was marketing it down forty 0:06:20.560 --> 0:06:22.960 to fifty percent. The only thing to be clear on 0:06:23.080 --> 0:06:25.800 here is just being made whole and getting out even 0:06:26.279 --> 0:06:30.000 over a two and a half year period ain't great. 0:06:30.120 --> 0:06:31.960 The S and P five hundred over that time period, 0:06:32.040 --> 0:06:35.000 Max chef gin up forty six percent, I will note, 0:06:35.040 --> 0:06:37.880 so really you could have just pretty much been blindly 0:06:37.920 --> 0:06:41.520 investing in the index and been up made a hell 0:06:41.560 --> 0:06:44.560 of a lot more money. But I want to talk 0:06:44.600 --> 0:06:47.400 for a second Max on kurtz first point, which is 0:06:47.440 --> 0:06:53.120 a bailout of X investors. We've seen this movie before 0:06:53.160 --> 0:06:56.520 from Elon, one Elon company buying another, or at least 0:06:56.560 --> 0:06:59.480 one Elon company buying a company he's closely affiliated with. 0:07:00.080 --> 0:07:03.800 You know, Tesla and Solar City is this Teslas Solar 0:07:03.800 --> 0:07:04.760 City part du. 0:07:05.160 --> 0:07:07.920 I mean, it's very similar, and I think, you know, 0:07:08.120 --> 0:07:10.920 we have anticipated not just Kurt's prediction, but on this 0:07:11.040 --> 0:07:14.280 podcast for like more than a year we've been talking 0:07:14.320 --> 0:07:16.600 about and I think it was actually Kurt also who 0:07:16.600 --> 0:07:18.760 first suggested this around the time when his book came out, 0:07:18.800 --> 0:07:22.760 which everyone should read. But basically the idea that that 0:07:23.240 --> 0:07:26.840 x doesn't has sort of a diminished business outlook and 0:07:26.840 --> 0:07:29.640 that AI is one of the only ways that it 0:07:29.800 --> 0:07:33.720 can kind of find a way to find opportunity, and 0:07:33.760 --> 0:07:37.840 you had this sort of awkwardness where xai is training 0:07:38.040 --> 0:07:42.200 on Twitter data Xai. Many of Xai's shareholders are the 0:07:42.200 --> 0:07:47.040 same as Twitter shareholders. The main distribution platform for Xai's chapbot, 0:07:47.040 --> 0:07:50.120 which is called groc is x So like it was 0:07:50.240 --> 0:07:53.280 weird that they were two separate companies to kind of 0:07:53.280 --> 0:07:53.800 begin with. 0:07:54.080 --> 0:07:56.480 Of course, well maybe it was to have so the 0:07:56.520 --> 0:07:59.360 Ai company had a clean slate, didn't have any baggage 0:07:59.400 --> 0:08:01.000 with it. I think certainly there was a lot of 0:08:01.000 --> 0:08:02.559 baggage from x for sure. 0:08:02.600 --> 0:08:05.880 And you know, Musk has operated his companies. There's a 0:08:05.880 --> 0:08:08.640 reason we call the show Elon Inc. Because Elon Musk 0:08:08.760 --> 0:08:13.560 runs his businesses like one conglomerate like Elon Inc. And 0:08:13.640 --> 0:08:16.320 what happened with Solar City is you had basically a 0:08:16.400 --> 0:08:20.920 troubled solar panel installer. It had looked really promising when 0:08:20.960 --> 0:08:24.280 Elon Musk started. They managed to get all these subsidies 0:08:24.600 --> 0:08:28.200 from state and national governments to install panels. All of 0:08:28.200 --> 0:08:30.480 a sudden, you had all these other companies come in 0:08:30.720 --> 0:08:34.640 a lot of competition, turns into basically a low margin business. 0:08:34.880 --> 0:08:35.640 Lo and behold. 0:08:35.880 --> 0:08:39.200 Tesla acquires it and then sold as part of the 0:08:39.320 --> 0:08:42.280 Elon Musk master plan. And at the time the Elon 0:08:42.360 --> 0:08:45.360 Musk master Plan was around, you know, green energy, We're 0:08:45.400 --> 0:08:47.240 gonna sort of your and have electric cars, You're gonna 0:08:47.240 --> 0:08:48.440 have solar panels on your roofs. 0:08:48.840 --> 0:08:51.439 There were, of course shareholder lawsuits because. 0:08:51.200 --> 0:08:53.600 I'm not on the Tesla side, people saying hey, you're 0:08:53.600 --> 0:08:57.360 bailing out this company, you're diluting me. I'm getting screwed. 0:08:57.760 --> 0:09:00.959 Those lawsuits failed in the end, correct, Yeah. 0:09:00.800 --> 0:09:03.840 I mean, and it's kind of for the same I think, well, 0:09:03.840 --> 0:09:06.200 there are probably other reasons too. But you know, we've 0:09:06.200 --> 0:09:09.520 seen this movie over and over where shareholders and Elon 0:09:09.600 --> 0:09:12.280 Musk companies have basically agreed that like they're going to 0:09:12.360 --> 0:09:14.360 just do whatever Elon Musk wants. That it's hard to 0:09:14.360 --> 0:09:17.760 separate Elon Musk. They've basically gone along with the story. 0:09:17.760 --> 0:09:20.320 I just told that all these companies are basically one conglomerate. 0:09:20.559 --> 0:09:24.720 So my guess is that the shareholders of Xai, as 0:09:24.840 --> 0:09:28.600 much as they are, like Kurt says, bailing out a 0:09:28.640 --> 0:09:32.479 struggling social media company, they're probably going along. 0:09:32.240 --> 0:09:34.520 With this as just as just the price of doing business. 0:09:34.760 --> 0:09:35.280 I do want to. 0:09:35.240 --> 0:09:37.280 See also, by the way, in the case of Xai, 0:09:37.320 --> 0:09:40.320 it's a much smaller investor universe than you'd have in 0:09:40.360 --> 0:09:42.640 the case of Tesla, where you have I don't know, 0:09:42.679 --> 0:09:44.920 tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of investors. 0:09:44.960 --> 0:09:46.800 Perhaps Yeah, I do want to say, I think there's 0:09:46.800 --> 0:09:50.240 something here for these Xai shareholders. You know, as much 0:09:50.240 --> 0:09:54.319 as we're bailing out x the fundraising environment for AI 0:09:54.360 --> 0:09:57.200 companies is getting worse right now. If I were a 0:09:57.240 --> 0:10:00.720 prospective investor in a company like xa yeah, I would 0:10:00.760 --> 0:10:05.000 ask myself what exactly is the relationship between XAI and 0:10:05.280 --> 0:10:07.680 x That would be like a risk factor. And in 0:10:07.720 --> 0:10:11.319 a way, I think this clarifies it makes it easier 0:10:11.600 --> 0:10:15.280 for Elon musk to potentially package this to investors, as 0:10:15.360 --> 0:10:17.439 much as it's kind of week funky that he's combined 0:10:17.480 --> 0:10:21.720 this like troll farm slash social network slash political influence 0:10:21.800 --> 0:10:25.679 project that is x with this like world leading chatbot 0:10:25.760 --> 0:10:25.920 or what. 0:10:26.000 --> 0:10:28.320 Yeah, I mean, Kurt. That is a good point, right 0:10:28.440 --> 0:10:32.280 where you have had up till now a pretty funky 0:10:32.679 --> 0:10:38.560 intercompany relationship where you know, x and XAI do business together. 0:10:38.880 --> 0:10:42.560 It seems like at some point, right XAI pays x by, 0:10:42.720 --> 0:10:46.040 like I will buy you five cups of coffee, you know, 0:10:46.160 --> 0:10:48.640 at a star by an in turn, you know you will, uh, 0:10:49.080 --> 0:10:51.679 we'll let you babysit for our Like it was all 0:10:51.720 --> 0:10:54.840 sort of weird, funky account Like why not They're just 0:10:55.000 --> 0:10:57.360 like this just simplifies the whole thing. Hey, it's all 0:10:57.480 --> 0:10:58.560 just one big company. 0:10:58.720 --> 0:11:00.520 I think that's right on paper. 0:11:00.880 --> 0:11:03.440 This makes sense when you think, okay, an AI company 0:11:03.520 --> 0:11:06.679 is buying a giant social network that has this proprietary 0:11:06.760 --> 0:11:10.280 data set. It's going to help GROCK reach millions of consumers. 0:11:10.800 --> 0:11:13.280 Like all of those things make sense. Where they don't 0:11:13.280 --> 0:11:16.160 make sense for a thirty three billion dollar acquisition is 0:11:16.200 --> 0:11:18.040 that the owner of both those companies is the same 0:11:18.080 --> 0:11:22.240 person who already has control over them. So it's not 0:11:22.320 --> 0:11:24.040 as if x was going to go suddenly do some 0:11:24.120 --> 0:11:26.920 data licensing deal with open Ai, because Elon would never 0:11:26.960 --> 0:11:29.640 do that. It's not as if Xai was going to go, 0:11:29.960 --> 0:11:31.920 you know, kick X to the curb and say, never mind, 0:11:31.920 --> 0:11:34.280 we're going to do our distribution over on Facebook, because 0:11:34.360 --> 0:11:37.400 Elon would never do that. So my point is that, 0:11:37.720 --> 0:11:41.080 while yes, this makes sense on paper, the lynchpin here 0:11:41.200 --> 0:11:43.800 is the Elon of it all, and because he owned 0:11:43.800 --> 0:11:47.520 and controls both companies, buying one of them for this 0:11:47.640 --> 0:11:49.720 amount of money to the other, to me feels like 0:11:49.880 --> 0:11:54.080 a weird financial transaction that didn't need to happen to 0:11:54.080 --> 0:11:54.840 get the benefits. 0:11:55.000 --> 0:11:56.680 Yeah, no, I get it, but there is a face 0:11:56.720 --> 0:11:59.320 saving value here to be able to start. You got out, 0:11:59.360 --> 0:12:00.720 everyone got out whole hold. 0:12:00.840 --> 0:12:03.920 But do you think Kurt anyone would use xai without 0:12:03.920 --> 0:12:05.480 GROC like without Twitter? 0:12:05.679 --> 0:12:07.360 Does xai have a business? 0:12:07.640 --> 0:12:10.959 I mean it has a business as much as open 0:12:11.000 --> 0:12:12.120 ai has a business. 0:12:12.200 --> 0:12:14.559 Right like they would they would, They would. 0:12:14.360 --> 0:12:17.679 Just have to find a different distribution model for their chatbots. 0:12:17.720 --> 0:12:20.680 So right in a different set of raw material to 0:12:20.720 --> 0:12:22.400 train off of. And I guess this is My other 0:12:22.559 --> 0:12:26.520 question for you, Kurt, is this truly the future of 0:12:26.720 --> 0:12:32.200 social media companies? That they are largely just human social 0:12:32.400 --> 0:12:36.640 posting farms or fast sorties, some iteration of soilent in 0:12:36.800 --> 0:12:39.199 essence to feed the romance. 0:12:39.679 --> 0:12:40.600 Well, let's think about it. 0:12:40.640 --> 0:12:46.559 So x is doing this with xai, Facebook, Instagram are 0:12:46.600 --> 0:12:50.520 doing this with meta ai. Reddit has licensed its data 0:12:50.600 --> 0:12:54.200 to Google. What does that leave right? I think Snap 0:12:54.360 --> 0:12:57.040 has a relationship with Google as well. I believe so 0:12:57.280 --> 0:13:01.000 pretty much every social network out there is doing a 0:13:01.160 --> 0:13:01.880 version of this. 0:13:02.000 --> 0:13:02.160 Now. 0:13:02.240 --> 0:13:05.240 Is that the only reason for them to exist? I 0:13:05.240 --> 0:13:09.120 would certainly say no. But has this become a you know, 0:13:09.200 --> 0:13:13.319 maybe unexpected business opportunity for all of these places? Certainly 0:13:13.360 --> 0:13:14.439 that seems to be the case. 0:13:15.000 --> 0:13:18.680 Okay, so there, I should keep posting. If I do post, 0:13:18.800 --> 0:13:21.160 if I were to post, which I don't, I should 0:13:21.280 --> 0:13:24.240 keep posting, appreciating that there's some other value out there 0:13:24.640 --> 0:13:26.920 beyond just informing the robots. 0:13:27.280 --> 0:13:31.320 I presume someone follows you, David, I don't know, so 0:13:31.840 --> 0:13:32.080 can I. 0:13:32.120 --> 0:13:36.160 Say that follower? Yeah, your follower might appreciate you still posting. 0:13:36.240 --> 0:13:39.840 But all right, who invited Kirk to this show? Can I? 0:13:40.240 --> 0:13:40.559 Was it you? 0:13:40.720 --> 0:13:42.960 Max? Why do we have Kerk first of all gloating 0:13:43.040 --> 0:13:46.520 about his grand prediction and second of all talking the host. 0:13:46.840 --> 0:13:50.200 But I will just say x I do have a 0:13:50.200 --> 0:13:52.600 few followers, which is kind of amazing because I've never 0:13:52.640 --> 0:13:56.800 posted on it. Now, Max, he goes here from six 0:13:56.880 --> 0:14:02.840 companies in the constellation of e in to five, Does 0:14:02.880 --> 0:14:07.640 it make his life any easier, simpler? Same difference. 0:14:08.200 --> 0:14:10.240 No, I think it's the same. Like I said, he 0:14:10.280 --> 0:14:13.760 was already running them like one company. I do wonder 0:14:13.760 --> 0:14:18.880 what this means for live front of the pod who, Kurt, 0:14:18.920 --> 0:14:20.560 I don't know. Do you have an understanding of what 0:14:20.840 --> 0:14:23.360 her role is going forward. 0:14:23.160 --> 0:14:28.120 Currently CEO of x Yeah, thoughts Kurt, I don't know. 0:14:28.160 --> 0:14:30.600 And that was one of the questions I posed after this, right, 0:14:30.720 --> 0:14:34.840 is what does this mean for her? In the one hand, 0:14:35.040 --> 0:14:38.040 she could continue to run X in the way she's 0:14:38.080 --> 0:14:41.160 already doing that as sort of maybe a business unit 0:14:41.240 --> 0:14:41.920 of XAI. 0:14:42.240 --> 0:14:43.680 Right, But as these. 0:14:43.520 --> 0:14:48.440 Companies become closer and closer together, usually when there's a 0:14:48.480 --> 0:14:50.760 merger like this, you know, you merge HR and you 0:14:50.880 --> 0:14:55.800 merge sales, and you merge engineering, and so it kind 0:14:55.800 --> 0:14:57.680 of becomes a little bit unless they're going to keep 0:14:57.840 --> 0:15:00.520 X completely independent of Xai, which feel like it would 0:15:00.520 --> 0:15:03.400 defeat the purpose of this merger. It sort of also 0:15:03.400 --> 0:15:07.080 feels like it would erode her power, right because she's 0:15:07.080 --> 0:15:09.120 not going to have as many people reporting to her, 0:15:09.200 --> 0:15:11.920 as many divisions or whatever. So I don't know, I 0:15:11.960 --> 0:15:13.800 don't know what's going to happen. She was obviously, you know, 0:15:13.960 --> 0:15:17.920 she was cheerleading this deal when it happened on Friday, and. 0:15:20.640 --> 0:15:22.720 Well it could just be a nice opportunity to actually 0:15:22.800 --> 0:15:24.480 exit stage last year for her. 0:15:24.600 --> 0:15:26.520 Yeah, yeah, but I don't know what's going to happen, 0:15:26.600 --> 0:15:27.200 is the short answer. 0:15:27.320 --> 0:15:27.760 Got it? 0:15:27.960 --> 0:15:30.680 Kurt Wagner, as always, thank you for joining us, sir, 0:15:30.840 --> 0:15:35.200 Congratulations on your brilliant December twenty twenty four prediction. 0:15:35.440 --> 0:15:37.440 Thank you for having me hope to be back. 0:15:41.560 --> 0:15:45.320 It's one of those things that may seem like it's 0:15:45.320 --> 0:15:47.440 obviously important in the state of wisconstant, but I think 0:15:47.440 --> 0:15:50.320 it could actually be important for the country as well, 0:15:50.720 --> 0:15:52.000 and maybe for the world. 0:15:53.040 --> 0:16:02.480 So okay, we're joined now by our other regular Dana Hall. Dana, 0:16:02.680 --> 0:16:05.440 welcome back, he Hey, and Dan. 0:16:05.520 --> 0:16:05.880 Of course. 0:16:05.960 --> 0:16:09.320 Elon here is referring to the Supreme Court election coming 0:16:09.400 --> 0:16:12.960 up in Wisconsin. The vote ends today results. Maybe we'll 0:16:12.960 --> 0:16:15.720 know as soon as tonight. You have a terrific story 0:16:15.720 --> 0:16:19.320 out about the election this morning. Remind us of the 0:16:19.400 --> 0:16:20.640 particulars here. 0:16:21.600 --> 0:16:24.560 Yeah, So, Wisconsin is one of the states that has 0:16:24.640 --> 0:16:28.480 an open, you know, open election for its Supreme Court justices. 0:16:28.760 --> 0:16:31.720 And Elon, as Elon does, is kind of like doubling 0:16:31.800 --> 0:16:35.120 down on this race in Wisconsin. He flew to Wisconsin 0:16:35.160 --> 0:16:38.160 on Sunday, gave a town hall. He also did some 0:16:38.280 --> 0:16:41.120 kind of like tell a call about the race last night. 0:16:41.240 --> 0:16:44.000 And this is all a time when there is enormous 0:16:44.160 --> 0:16:48.120 backlash two Musk being involved with politics and the Trump 0:16:48.160 --> 0:16:52.640 administration and Doge, but he is basically repeating his playbook, 0:16:52.720 --> 0:16:56.040 you know, dangling money before voters. He wore a cheesehead 0:16:56.080 --> 0:16:58.840 on stage and like he sort of was like, you know, 0:16:59.040 --> 0:17:00.800 this is We've got to do this. People on his 0:17:00.960 --> 0:17:04.480 pack is texting everyone, and it'll be a real test 0:17:04.520 --> 0:17:08.080 of whether the political operation that he's built will endure 0:17:08.160 --> 0:17:12.600 beyond Trump and be able to impact these statewide races. 0:17:12.920 --> 0:17:18.560 Okay, and the vote for the Supreme Court justice will 0:17:18.960 --> 0:17:23.920 whichever parties candidate gets it will effectively take control of 0:17:24.080 --> 0:17:26.639 the Wisconsin Supreme Court. Correct correct. 0:17:26.720 --> 0:17:29.760 Right now, it's a seven member court. Four to three 0:17:29.800 --> 0:17:32.560 majority hangs in the balance, and you know state Supreme 0:17:32.560 --> 0:17:35.439 Court does. It looks at everything from collective bargaining rights, 0:17:35.520 --> 0:17:39.320 abortion rights, registricting. Registricting is always very important when it 0:17:39.320 --> 0:17:42.639 comes to determining House seats, and so in Elon's mind, 0:17:42.760 --> 0:17:45.520 this is like another fork in the road of destiny 0:17:45.560 --> 0:17:50.000 for civilization, and he is, you know, encouraging everyone to 0:17:50.080 --> 0:17:53.879 vote and really pushing it very hard in the final days. 0:17:54.240 --> 0:17:55.800 One of the big questions we had at the time 0:17:55.880 --> 0:17:58.960 last week was would the value the money he's putting 0:17:59.040 --> 0:18:05.760 up ultimately be greater than the downside that he creates, 0:18:06.400 --> 0:18:09.800 But by attaching his name to the Republican candidate there, 0:18:10.400 --> 0:18:13.920 we weren't exactly sure at the time. Seven days later, 0:18:14.480 --> 0:18:17.760 any greater clarity on that point, well. 0:18:17.640 --> 0:18:20.280 I think, I mean, there's no question that Elon's involvement 0:18:20.560 --> 0:18:23.119 is helping is shaping the contours of the race. I mean, 0:18:23.160 --> 0:18:25.159 a lot of people went to see Elon speak on 0:18:25.200 --> 0:18:29.159 Sunday night. His pack has door knockers, they are running 0:18:29.160 --> 0:18:33.080 digital ads on Facebook. I mean, he is very much swinging, 0:18:33.240 --> 0:18:34.960 helping to swing the race in the way that he 0:18:35.040 --> 0:18:38.840 did when he barstormed across Pennsylvania for President Trump. But 0:18:38.880 --> 0:18:41.760 what's the different this cycle is that Trump himself is 0:18:41.800 --> 0:18:43.840 not on the ballot, and so it really remains to 0:18:43.880 --> 0:18:47.040 be seen how close this election will be and whether 0:18:47.640 --> 0:18:50.639 Musk's imprint had the suite that it did. Also, Elon 0:18:50.760 --> 0:18:54.720 is a far less popular person now than he was 0:18:54.800 --> 0:18:55.560 in October. 0:18:55.720 --> 0:18:59.879 Yeah, I mean, Democrats are I mean Elon's involvement. He 0:19:00.440 --> 0:19:02.280 is going to be a factor sort of on the 0:19:02.280 --> 0:19:05.920 Democratic side. Democrats are tying this race to Elon Musk, 0:19:05.920 --> 0:19:08.600 which would have happened probably even if he hadn't given 0:19:08.640 --> 0:19:11.280 any money, frankly, because Elon Musk is like one of 0:19:11.320 --> 0:19:13.879 the most unpopular parts of the Trace of Dose. 0:19:14.080 --> 0:19:14.800 Yeah, exactly. 0:19:15.000 --> 0:19:17.040 But the fact that he's giving all his money, of course, 0:19:17.240 --> 0:19:20.119 is going to make those attacks stickier. That said, like 0:19:20.520 --> 0:19:24.600 the money that Elon's giving is so so so much 0:19:25.080 --> 0:19:27.320 like well, I don't think we Yeah, it's it's a 0:19:27.359 --> 0:19:29.439 little bit hard to even get your head around it. 0:19:29.440 --> 0:19:31.560 You know, last week how much what has been number? 0:19:31.760 --> 0:19:33.960 We don't know the total number because this is all 0:19:33.960 --> 0:19:36.320 happening so quickly. You know, last week we had Ted 0:19:36.440 --> 0:19:39.960 Man here saying that you know, third party estimates were 0:19:39.960 --> 0:19:44.000 putting it around fourteen million dollars out of somewhere in 0:19:44.000 --> 0:19:48.120 the seventies. This is already the most expensive state judicial 0:19:48.200 --> 0:19:52.760 race ever. And that's before we saw all this additional spending. 0:19:52.800 --> 0:19:55.240 Those were that was mostly TV money. Now we're seeing 0:19:55.320 --> 0:19:59.320 Musk writing, I think my count, Dana is three million 0:19:59.359 --> 0:20:00.600 dollar checks thus formed. 0:20:00.600 --> 0:20:01.199 I think that's right. 0:20:01.480 --> 0:20:06.360 We've seen he's he's paying one hundred dollars per petition signer. 0:20:06.720 --> 0:20:09.000 By the way, all these payments are sort of designed 0:20:09.000 --> 0:20:11.000 to be like right up to the edge of the 0:20:11.000 --> 0:20:11.680 election law. 0:20:11.840 --> 0:20:13.760 The senses they are indeed on the right side of 0:20:13.760 --> 0:20:14.120 the law. 0:20:15.040 --> 0:20:18.080 Who knows, no, I don't think that sense is at 0:20:18.080 --> 0:20:21.719 all clear. We were seeing repeated legal challenges, and you know, 0:20:21.840 --> 0:20:24.359 even during this event, Musk acknowledged and he did He 0:20:24.440 --> 0:20:26.400 did the same during the twenty twenty four race. 0:20:26.560 --> 0:20:29.119 He acknowledged. This is the point. The point is to 0:20:29.320 --> 0:20:32.760 to do these stunts and get media coverage when Democrats 0:20:32.800 --> 0:20:34.880