1 00:00:02,480 --> 00:00:07,080 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news. 2 00:00:07,920 --> 00:00:09,520 Speaker 2: Let me tell you we have a new star. 3 00:00:10,520 --> 00:00:14,680 Speaker 3: A star is born Elon mars Juson Kennemy. 4 00:00:14,880 --> 00:00:18,440 Speaker 4: He is the Thomas Edison plus plus plus of our age. 5 00:00:18,600 --> 00:00:21,040 Speaker 5: Probably his whole life is from a position of insecurity. 6 00:00:21,040 --> 00:00:21,800 Speaker 6: I feel for the guy. 7 00:00:22,040 --> 00:00:25,360 Speaker 7: I would say ninety eight percent really appreciate what he does. 8 00:00:25,400 --> 00:00:26,920 Speaker 6: But those two percent. 9 00:00:26,640 --> 00:00:29,840 Speaker 8: That are nasty, they are I'll pay in full post. 10 00:00:30,280 --> 00:00:32,280 Speaker 6: We are meant for great things in the United States 11 00:00:32,320 --> 00:00:34,560 Speaker 6: of America, and Elon reminds. 12 00:00:34,320 --> 00:00:37,760 Speaker 3: Us of that we don't have a fourth branch of 13 00:00:37,880 --> 00:00:40,159 Speaker 3: governments called Elon Musk. 14 00:00:46,760 --> 00:00:50,000 Speaker 6: Welcome to Elon, a Bloomberg's weekly podcast about Elon Musk. 15 00:00:50,040 --> 00:00:53,640 Speaker 6: It's Tuesday, April First, I'm your host, David Papadopolis. 16 00:00:54,160 --> 00:00:54,400 Speaker 5: Now. 17 00:00:54,440 --> 00:00:58,120 Speaker 6: On Friday night, Elon snuck out an announcement that, as 18 00:00:58,320 --> 00:01:01,720 Speaker 6: longtime listeners of this show was a long time coming. 19 00:01:02,160 --> 00:01:06,480 Speaker 6: His AI company Xai had acquired his social media company 20 00:01:06,920 --> 00:01:10,000 Speaker 6: x And, a deal that values the new joint company 21 00:01:10,040 --> 00:01:13,520 Speaker 6: at over one hundred billion dollars. Shades of Tesla buying 22 00:01:13,560 --> 00:01:16,480 Speaker 6: Solar City, a sign of things to come in the 23 00:01:16,520 --> 00:01:21,039 Speaker 6: world of AI. Both and then in Wisconsin today is 24 00:01:21,120 --> 00:01:24,000 Speaker 6: election day for the Musk funded race between a conservative 25 00:01:24,040 --> 00:01:27,720 Speaker 6: and liberal judge. The stakes are high, although perhaps not 26 00:01:27,800 --> 00:01:31,800 Speaker 6: as high as Musk has been suggesting. All this comes 27 00:01:31,840 --> 00:01:34,240 Speaker 6: as Tesla's stock price has been ping ponged up and 28 00:01:34,280 --> 00:01:37,080 Speaker 6: down by Tariff News and has protests of the brand 29 00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:40,920 Speaker 6: show no sign of slowing down. To talk about X, 30 00:01:41,120 --> 00:01:44,080 Speaker 6: were joined by one of our regulars, Max chaffickin Hello 31 00:01:44,120 --> 00:01:47,800 Speaker 6: to you, Max, Hello, Papa. Okay, Now we're good. This 32 00:01:47,840 --> 00:01:52,320 Speaker 6: is the first introduction of popns and our social media 33 00:01:52,360 --> 00:01:55,720 Speaker 6: reporter and by far the best high school quarterback has 34 00:01:55,800 --> 00:01:58,280 Speaker 6: ever been on this show. Kurt Wagner Kurt. 35 00:01:58,040 --> 00:01:59,960 Speaker 9: Hello, Hey, thank you for having me. 36 00:02:00,440 --> 00:02:04,480 Speaker 6: And later on Dana Hall, our other regular will swing 37 00:02:04,560 --> 00:02:08,640 Speaker 6: by to talk Wisconsin politics. We actually have a surprise 38 00:02:09,200 --> 00:02:12,400 Speaker 6: to start us off here. Max, You've got something that's 39 00:02:12,440 --> 00:02:14,000 Speaker 6: coming later this week. Tell us about it. 40 00:02:14,040 --> 00:02:17,519 Speaker 3: Yeah, David, So later in the show. Not to spoil things, 41 00:02:17,520 --> 00:02:19,160 Speaker 3: but we will be talking about a little bundle of 42 00:02:19,240 --> 00:02:22,040 Speaker 3: joy that Elon has. But but I have my own 43 00:02:22,160 --> 00:02:26,239 Speaker 3: bundle of joy that's coming in your podcast feed this week. 44 00:02:26,440 --> 00:02:29,920 Speaker 3: On Friday, we'll have a the first episode of a 45 00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:31,840 Speaker 3: new show called Everybody's Business. 46 00:02:32,200 --> 00:02:36,560 Speaker 6: It's I like that name. It's about business, it's and everybody. 47 00:02:36,639 --> 00:02:37,919 Speaker 2: It's a little bit like Elon Inc. 48 00:02:38,080 --> 00:02:41,400 Speaker 3: It's gonna be me and Stacey Vannox Smith, who people 49 00:02:41,560 --> 00:02:46,120 Speaker 3: probably know from Marketplace, Planet Money, the Indicator. She's done 50 00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:48,640 Speaker 3: tons of reporting about markets and business. 51 00:02:48,880 --> 00:02:51,320 Speaker 2: She's going to carry money. Yeah, she's going to carry 52 00:02:51,360 --> 00:02:51,919 Speaker 2: the show. 53 00:02:51,720 --> 00:02:56,400 Speaker 3: And we're gonna have a rotating crew of other experts guests. 54 00:02:56,480 --> 00:02:59,760 Speaker 3: It's gonna be fun and we're really excited. 55 00:02:59,360 --> 00:03:00,000 Speaker 9: For everyone to hear. 56 00:03:00,240 --> 00:03:03,399 Speaker 3: So you're gonna hear it in your podcast feed on Friday, 57 00:03:03,440 --> 00:03:05,280 Speaker 3: and then for the next few weeks it'll be here 58 00:03:05,400 --> 00:03:07,760 Speaker 3: in the e lining feed. But we're hoping that when 59 00:03:07,800 --> 00:03:11,399 Speaker 3: the show launches for real in May, you will come 60 00:03:11,440 --> 00:03:12,480 Speaker 3: over with us to our own. 61 00:03:12,360 --> 00:03:14,320 Speaker 6: No, we're not just hoping, we're insisting yet. 62 00:03:14,480 --> 00:03:15,160 Speaker 2: We're commanded this. 63 00:03:15,280 --> 00:03:19,120 Speaker 6: We're demanding. Right, you're dropping in in the feed on Friday, now, 64 00:03:19,120 --> 00:03:21,440 Speaker 6: well Friday going forward, will that be the day it'll 65 00:03:21,480 --> 00:03:22,280 Speaker 6: always come out on? 66 00:03:22,520 --> 00:03:24,280 Speaker 3: That will be the day it'll it'll come out on 67 00:03:24,320 --> 00:03:27,560 Speaker 3: Friday kind of hopefully help people make sense of what 68 00:03:27,639 --> 00:03:30,240 Speaker 3: happened in the world of business for the past few days. 69 00:03:30,360 --> 00:03:31,480 Speaker 2: Get ready for the weekend. 70 00:03:32,080 --> 00:03:35,760 Speaker 6: Yeah, that sounds great. Okay, very good. Okay, we're gonna 71 00:03:36,000 --> 00:03:40,440 Speaker 6: start off here and talk about that late night news 72 00:03:40,520 --> 00:03:45,360 Speaker 6: that broke on Friday, x AI purchasing x But to 73 00:03:45,400 --> 00:03:47,520 Speaker 6: get us started here on it, we're gonna go back 74 00:03:47,560 --> 00:03:51,960 Speaker 6: to December when one Kurt Wagner said this, I. 75 00:03:51,920 --> 00:03:54,960 Speaker 10: Got two predictions for this year for Elon Musk. The 76 00:03:54,960 --> 00:03:58,840 Speaker 10: first is that he's gonna fold x social network formerly 77 00:03:58,920 --> 00:04:02,920 Speaker 10: known as Twitter into Xai. So it's going to be 78 00:04:02,920 --> 00:04:06,440 Speaker 10: a way for him to basically salvage that you know, 79 00:04:06,560 --> 00:04:09,120 Speaker 10: struggling business, get investors away out bang. 80 00:04:09,280 --> 00:04:11,920 Speaker 6: That's what I'm talking about. Wagner. Huh. 81 00:04:11,960 --> 00:04:15,080 Speaker 3: I just feel like people spend huge sums of money 82 00:04:15,160 --> 00:04:16,640 Speaker 3: on intelligence and various things. 83 00:04:16,640 --> 00:04:18,520 Speaker 2: They could just listen to our podcast and they would 84 00:04:18,600 --> 00:04:20,359 Speaker 2: know what is going to happen. 85 00:04:20,640 --> 00:04:23,200 Speaker 6: Just listen to Kurt Wagner. Well done, sir. By the way, 86 00:04:23,240 --> 00:04:26,960 Speaker 6: what was your other prediction and has it flopped on you? 87 00:04:27,920 --> 00:04:29,680 Speaker 11: Well, first off, thank you for having me back for 88 00:04:29,760 --> 00:04:33,040 Speaker 11: this victory lap. This is all I've ever dreamt about 89 00:04:33,160 --> 00:04:37,000 Speaker 11: since December. Honestly, I think my other prediction was that 90 00:04:37,120 --> 00:04:40,599 Speaker 11: Elon Donald Trump will go on a boy's trip to 91 00:04:40,680 --> 00:04:43,000 Speaker 11: visit I may have said Kim Jong un. But I 92 00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:45,560 Speaker 11: think Vladimir Putin should fall into that camp as well, 93 00:04:45,560 --> 00:04:47,520 Speaker 11: and I still think that's a real possibility. 94 00:04:47,560 --> 00:04:49,840 Speaker 6: He's on the verge of two for two. All right, 95 00:04:49,920 --> 00:04:52,840 Speaker 6: that's very good, way, way way better than me. I'm 96 00:04:52,880 --> 00:04:55,800 Speaker 6: oh for so far. But let's focus on this one. 97 00:04:56,240 --> 00:04:59,480 Speaker 6: Give us a little bit of a little bit more 98 00:04:59,520 --> 00:05:01,960 Speaker 6: of a cent. So what you were thinking at the time, 99 00:05:02,880 --> 00:05:07,000 Speaker 6: and in turn, what your understanding of the particulars of 100 00:05:07,040 --> 00:05:08,280 Speaker 6: this deal now is. 101 00:05:09,480 --> 00:05:12,800 Speaker 11: Well, I think it kind of shaped up how I thought, 102 00:05:12,800 --> 00:05:15,000 Speaker 11: which is that it feels like this is a deal 103 00:05:15,080 --> 00:05:20,360 Speaker 11: specifically tailored to bail out X investors, Right, and think 104 00:05:20,400 --> 00:05:23,000 Speaker 11: about it this way. If you are an investor in X. 105 00:05:23,160 --> 00:05:26,839 Speaker 11: A week ago, you had shares in what has mostly 106 00:05:26,839 --> 00:05:29,919 Speaker 11: been a struggling social networking company with an ADS business 107 00:05:29,960 --> 00:05:32,440 Speaker 11: that is about half the size that it was when 108 00:05:32,440 --> 00:05:36,080 Speaker 11: Elon acquired it, with no real reason to think that 109 00:05:36,080 --> 00:05:40,800 Speaker 11: that was going to change anytime soon. Suddenly your investment 110 00:05:41,200 --> 00:05:45,680 Speaker 11: is now part of an AI startup that is worth 111 00:05:45,920 --> 00:05:48,839 Speaker 11: three times the amount of money, and you really didn't 112 00:05:48,839 --> 00:05:52,880 Speaker 11: lose any money. Right, he acquired the company Xai acquired 113 00:05:53,000 --> 00:05:54,960 Speaker 11: X at roughly the same price that he paid for 114 00:05:55,000 --> 00:05:57,040 Speaker 11: it two and a half years ago. So you just 115 00:05:57,160 --> 00:05:59,880 Speaker 11: take your money from a business that has low ups 116 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:03,840 Speaker 11: to a business with very high upside. And I think 117 00:06:04,080 --> 00:06:07,000 Speaker 11: this was really a way to make X investors whole 118 00:06:07,040 --> 00:06:09,960 Speaker 11: and give them something more optimistic to look forward to. 119 00:06:10,360 --> 00:06:12,839 Speaker 6: Yeah, and I will say on that point that being 120 00:06:12,880 --> 00:06:16,120 Speaker 6: made whole is a hell of a lot better than 121 00:06:16,160 --> 00:06:18,479 Speaker 6: the way it looked at multiple points over the past 122 00:06:18,520 --> 00:06:20,560 Speaker 6: couple years. I think Fidelity was marketing it down forty 123 00:06:20,560 --> 00:06:22,960 Speaker 6: to fifty percent. The only thing to be clear on 124 00:06:23,080 --> 00:06:25,800 Speaker 6: here is just being made whole and getting out even 125 00:06:26,279 --> 00:06:30,000 Speaker 6: over a two and a half year period ain't great. 126 00:06:30,120 --> 00:06:31,960 Speaker 6: The S and P five hundred over that time period, 127 00:06:32,040 --> 00:06:35,000 Speaker 6: Max chef gin up forty six percent, I will note, 128 00:06:35,040 --> 00:06:37,880 Speaker 6: so really you could have just pretty much been blindly 129 00:06:37,920 --> 00:06:41,520 Speaker 6: investing in the index and been up made a hell 130 00:06:41,560 --> 00:06:44,560 Speaker 6: of a lot more money. But I want to talk 131 00:06:44,600 --> 00:06:47,400 Speaker 6: for a second Max on kurtz first point, which is 132 00:06:47,440 --> 00:06:53,120 Speaker 6: a bailout of X investors. We've seen this movie before 133 00:06:53,160 --> 00:06:56,520 Speaker 6: from Elon, one Elon company buying another, or at least 134 00:06:56,560 --> 00:06:59,480 Speaker 6: one Elon company buying a company he's closely affiliated with. 135 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:03,800 Speaker 6: You know, Tesla and Solar City is this Teslas Solar 136 00:07:03,800 --> 00:07:04,760 Speaker 6: City part du. 137 00:07:05,160 --> 00:07:07,920 Speaker 3: I mean, it's very similar, and I think, you know, 138 00:07:08,120 --> 00:07:10,920 Speaker 3: we have anticipated not just Kurt's prediction, but on this 139 00:07:11,040 --> 00:07:14,280 Speaker 3: podcast for like more than a year we've been talking 140 00:07:14,320 --> 00:07:16,600 Speaker 3: about and I think it was actually Kurt also who 141 00:07:16,600 --> 00:07:18,760 Speaker 3: first suggested this around the time when his book came out, 142 00:07:18,800 --> 00:07:22,760 Speaker 3: which everyone should read. But basically the idea that that 143 00:07:23,240 --> 00:07:26,840 Speaker 3: x doesn't has sort of a diminished business outlook and 144 00:07:26,840 --> 00:07:29,640 Speaker 3: that AI is one of the only ways that it 145 00:07:29,800 --> 00:07:33,720 Speaker 3: can kind of find a way to find opportunity, and 146 00:07:33,760 --> 00:07:37,840 Speaker 3: you had this sort of awkwardness where xai is training 147 00:07:38,040 --> 00:07:42,200 Speaker 3: on Twitter data Xai. Many of Xai's shareholders are the 148 00:07:42,200 --> 00:07:47,040 Speaker 3: same as Twitter shareholders. The main distribution platform for Xai's chapbot, 149 00:07:47,040 --> 00:07:50,120 Speaker 3: which is called groc is x So like it was 150 00:07:50,240 --> 00:07:53,280 Speaker 3: weird that they were two separate companies to kind of 151 00:07:53,280 --> 00:07:53,800 Speaker 3: begin with. 152 00:07:54,080 --> 00:07:56,480 Speaker 6: Of course, well maybe it was to have so the 153 00:07:56,520 --> 00:07:59,360 Speaker 6: Ai company had a clean slate, didn't have any baggage 154 00:07:59,400 --> 00:08:01,000 Speaker 6: with it. I think certainly there was a lot of 155 00:08:01,000 --> 00:08:02,559 Speaker 6: baggage from x for sure. 156 00:08:02,600 --> 00:08:05,880 Speaker 3: And you know, Musk has operated his companies. There's a 157 00:08:05,880 --> 00:08:08,640 Speaker 3: reason we call the show Elon Inc. Because Elon Musk 158 00:08:08,760 --> 00:08:13,560 Speaker 3: runs his businesses like one conglomerate like Elon Inc. And 159 00:08:13,640 --> 00:08:16,320 Speaker 3: what happened with Solar City is you had basically a 160 00:08:16,400 --> 00:08:20,920 Speaker 3: troubled solar panel installer. It had looked really promising when 161 00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:24,280 Speaker 3: Elon Musk started. They managed to get all these subsidies 162 00:08:24,600 --> 00:08:28,200 Speaker 3: from state and national governments to install panels. All of 163 00:08:28,200 --> 00:08:30,480 Speaker 3: a sudden, you had all these other companies come in 164 00:08:30,720 --> 00:08:34,640 Speaker 3: a lot of competition, turns into basically a low margin business. 165 00:08:34,880 --> 00:08:35,640 Speaker 2: Lo and behold. 166 00:08:35,880 --> 00:08:39,200 Speaker 3: Tesla acquires it and then sold as part of the 167 00:08:39,320 --> 00:08:42,280 Speaker 3: Elon Musk master plan. And at the time the Elon 168 00:08:42,360 --> 00:08:45,360 Speaker 3: Musk master Plan was around, you know, green energy, We're 169 00:08:45,400 --> 00:08:47,240 Speaker 3: gonna sort of your and have electric cars, You're gonna 170 00:08:47,240 --> 00:08:48,440 Speaker 3: have solar panels on your roofs. 171 00:08:48,840 --> 00:08:51,439 Speaker 2: There were, of course shareholder lawsuits because. 172 00:08:51,200 --> 00:08:53,600 Speaker 6: I'm not on the Tesla side, people saying hey, you're 173 00:08:53,600 --> 00:08:57,360 Speaker 6: bailing out this company, you're diluting me. I'm getting screwed. 174 00:08:57,760 --> 00:09:00,959 Speaker 6: Those lawsuits failed in the end, correct, Yeah. 175 00:09:00,800 --> 00:09:03,840 Speaker 3: I mean, and it's kind of for the same I think, well, 176 00:09:03,840 --> 00:09:06,200 Speaker 3: there are probably other reasons too. But you know, we've 177 00:09:06,200 --> 00:09:09,520 Speaker 3: seen this movie over and over where shareholders and Elon 178 00:09:09,600 --> 00:09:12,280 Speaker 3: Musk companies have basically agreed that like they're going to 179 00:09:12,360 --> 00:09:14,360 Speaker 3: just do whatever Elon Musk wants. That it's hard to 180 00:09:14,360 --> 00:09:17,760 Speaker 3: separate Elon Musk. They've basically gone along with the story. 181 00:09:17,760 --> 00:09:20,320 Speaker 3: I just told that all these companies are basically one conglomerate. 182 00:09:20,559 --> 00:09:24,720 Speaker 3: So my guess is that the shareholders of Xai, as 183 00:09:24,840 --> 00:09:28,600 Speaker 3: much as they are, like Kurt says, bailing out a 184 00:09:28,640 --> 00:09:32,479 Speaker 3: struggling social media company, they're probably going along. 185 00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:34,520 Speaker 2: With this as just as just the price of doing business. 186 00:09:34,760 --> 00:09:35,280 Speaker 2: I do want to. 187 00:09:35,240 --> 00:09:37,280 Speaker 6: See also, by the way, in the case of Xai, 188 00:09:37,320 --> 00:09:40,320 Speaker 6: it's a much smaller investor universe than you'd have in 189 00:09:40,360 --> 00:09:42,640 Speaker 6: the case of Tesla, where you have I don't know, 190 00:09:42,679 --> 00:09:44,920 Speaker 6: tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of investors. 191 00:09:44,960 --> 00:09:46,800 Speaker 3: Perhaps Yeah, I do want to say, I think there's 192 00:09:46,800 --> 00:09:50,240 Speaker 3: something here for these Xai shareholders. You know, as much 193 00:09:50,240 --> 00:09:54,319 Speaker 3: as we're bailing out x the fundraising environment for AI 194 00:09:54,360 --> 00:09:57,200 Speaker 3: companies is getting worse right now. If I were a 195 00:09:57,240 --> 00:10:00,720 Speaker 3: prospective investor in a company like xa yeah, I would 196 00:10:00,760 --> 00:10:05,000 Speaker 3: ask myself what exactly is the relationship between XAI and 197 00:10:05,280 --> 00:10:07,680 Speaker 3: x That would be like a risk factor. And in 198 00:10:07,720 --> 00:10:11,319 Speaker 3: a way, I think this clarifies it makes it easier 199 00:10:11,600 --> 00:10:15,280 Speaker 3: for Elon musk to potentially package this to investors, as 200 00:10:15,360 --> 00:10:17,439 Speaker 3: much as it's kind of week funky that he's combined 201 00:10:17,480 --> 00:10:21,720 Speaker 3: this like troll farm slash social network slash political influence 202 00:10:21,800 --> 00:10:25,679 Speaker 3: project that is x with this like world leading chatbot 203 00:10:25,760 --> 00:10:25,920 Speaker 3: or what. 204 00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:28,320 Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean, Kurt. That is a good point, right 205 00:10:28,440 --> 00:10:32,280 Speaker 6: where you have had up till now a pretty funky 206 00:10:32,679 --> 00:10:38,560 Speaker 6: intercompany relationship where you know, x and XAI do business together. 207 00:10:38,880 --> 00:10:42,560 Speaker 6: It seems like at some point, right XAI pays x by, 208 00:10:42,720 --> 00:10:46,040 Speaker 6: like I will buy you five cups of coffee, you know, 209 00:10:46,160 --> 00:10:48,640 Speaker 6: at a star by an in turn, you know you will, uh, 210 00:10:49,080 --> 00:10:51,679 Speaker 6: we'll let you babysit for our Like it was all 211 00:10:51,720 --> 00:10:54,840 Speaker 6: sort of weird, funky account Like why not They're just 212 00:10:55,000 --> 00:10:57,360 Speaker 6: like this just simplifies the whole thing. Hey, it's all 213 00:10:57,480 --> 00:10:58,560 Speaker 6: just one big company. 214 00:10:58,720 --> 00:11:00,520 Speaker 9: I think that's right on paper. 215 00:11:00,880 --> 00:11:03,440 Speaker 11: This makes sense when you think, okay, an AI company 216 00:11:03,520 --> 00:11:06,679 Speaker 11: is buying a giant social network that has this proprietary 217 00:11:06,760 --> 00:11:10,280 Speaker 11: data set. It's going to help GROCK reach millions of consumers. 218 00:11:10,800 --> 00:11:13,280 Speaker 11: Like all of those things make sense. Where they don't 219 00:11:13,280 --> 00:11:16,160 Speaker 11: make sense for a thirty three billion dollar acquisition is 220 00:11:16,200 --> 00:11:18,040 Speaker 11: that the owner of both those companies is the same 221 00:11:18,080 --> 00:11:22,240 Speaker 11: person who already has control over them. So it's not 222 00:11:22,320 --> 00:11:24,040 Speaker 11: as if x was going to go suddenly do some 223 00:11:24,120 --> 00:11:26,920 Speaker 11: data licensing deal with open Ai, because Elon would never 224 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:29,640 Speaker 11: do that. It's not as if Xai was going to go, 225 00:11:29,960 --> 00:11:31,920 Speaker 11: you know, kick X to the curb and say, never mind, 226 00:11:31,920 --> 00:11:34,280 Speaker 11: we're going to do our distribution over on Facebook, because 227 00:11:34,360 --> 00:11:37,400 Speaker 11: Elon would never do that. So my point is that, 228 00:11:37,720 --> 00:11:41,080 Speaker 11: while yes, this makes sense on paper, the lynchpin here 229 00:11:41,200 --> 00:11:43,800 Speaker 11: is the Elon of it all, and because he owned 230 00:11:43,800 --> 00:11:47,520 Speaker 11: and controls both companies, buying one of them for this 231 00:11:47,640 --> 00:11:49,720 Speaker 11: amount of money to the other, to me feels like 232 00:11:49,880 --> 00:11:54,080 Speaker 11: a weird financial transaction that didn't need to happen to 233 00:11:54,080 --> 00:11:54,840 Speaker 11: get the benefits. 234 00:11:55,000 --> 00:11:56,680 Speaker 6: Yeah, no, I get it, but there is a face 235 00:11:56,720 --> 00:11:59,320 Speaker 6: saving value here to be able to start. You got out, 236 00:11:59,360 --> 00:12:00,720 Speaker 6: everyone got out whole hold. 237 00:12:00,840 --> 00:12:03,920 Speaker 3: But do you think Kurt anyone would use xai without 238 00:12:03,920 --> 00:12:05,480 Speaker 3: GROC like without Twitter? 239 00:12:05,679 --> 00:12:07,360 Speaker 2: Does xai have a business? 240 00:12:07,640 --> 00:12:10,959 Speaker 11: I mean it has a business as much as open 241 00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:12,120 Speaker 11: ai has a business. 242 00:12:12,200 --> 00:12:14,559 Speaker 9: Right like they would they would, They would. 243 00:12:14,360 --> 00:12:17,679 Speaker 11: Just have to find a different distribution model for their chatbots. 244 00:12:17,720 --> 00:12:20,680 Speaker 6: So right in a different set of raw material to 245 00:12:20,720 --> 00:12:22,400 Speaker 6: train off of. And I guess this is My other 246 00:12:22,559 --> 00:12:26,520 Speaker 6: question for you, Kurt, is this truly the future of 247 00:12:26,720 --> 00:12:32,200 Speaker 6: social media companies? That they are largely just human social 248 00:12:32,400 --> 00:12:36,640 Speaker 6: posting farms or fast sorties, some iteration of soilent in 249 00:12:36,800 --> 00:12:39,199 Speaker 6: essence to feed the romance. 250 00:12:39,679 --> 00:12:40,600 Speaker 9: Well, let's think about it. 251 00:12:40,640 --> 00:12:46,559 Speaker 11: So x is doing this with xai, Facebook, Instagram are 252 00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:50,520 Speaker 11: doing this with meta ai. Reddit has licensed its data 253 00:12:50,600 --> 00:12:54,200 Speaker 11: to Google. What does that leave right? I think Snap 254 00:12:54,360 --> 00:12:57,040 Speaker 11: has a relationship with Google as well. I believe so 255 00:12:57,280 --> 00:13:01,000 Speaker 11: pretty much every social network out there is doing a 256 00:13:01,160 --> 00:13:01,880 Speaker 11: version of this. 257 00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:02,160 Speaker 12: Now. 258 00:13:02,240 --> 00:13:05,240 Speaker 11: Is that the only reason for them to exist? I 259 00:13:05,240 --> 00:13:09,120 Speaker 11: would certainly say no. But has this become a you know, 260 00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:13,319 Speaker 11: maybe unexpected business opportunity for all of these places? Certainly 261 00:13:13,360 --> 00:13:14,439 Speaker 11: that seems to be the case. 262 00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:18,680 Speaker 6: Okay, so there, I should keep posting. If I do post, 263 00:13:18,800 --> 00:13:21,160 Speaker 6: if I were to post, which I don't, I should 264 00:13:21,280 --> 00:13:24,240 Speaker 6: keep posting, appreciating that there's some other value out there 265 00:13:24,640 --> 00:13:26,920 Speaker 6: beyond just informing the robots. 266 00:13:27,280 --> 00:13:31,320 Speaker 11: I presume someone follows you, David, I don't know, so 267 00:13:31,840 --> 00:13:32,080 Speaker 11: can I. 268 00:13:32,120 --> 00:13:36,160 Speaker 9: Say that follower? Yeah, your follower might appreciate you still posting. 269 00:13:36,240 --> 00:13:39,840 Speaker 6: But all right, who invited Kirk to this show? Can I? 270 00:13:40,240 --> 00:13:40,559 Speaker 5: Was it you? 271 00:13:40,720 --> 00:13:42,960 Speaker 6: Max? Why do we have Kerk first of all gloating 272 00:13:43,040 --> 00:13:46,520 Speaker 6: about his grand prediction and second of all talking the host. 273 00:13:46,840 --> 00:13:50,200 Speaker 6: But I will just say x I do have a 274 00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:52,600 Speaker 6: few followers, which is kind of amazing because I've never 275 00:13:52,640 --> 00:13:56,800 Speaker 6: posted on it. Now, Max, he goes here from six 276 00:13:56,880 --> 00:14:02,840 Speaker 6: companies in the constellation of e in to five, Does 277 00:14:02,880 --> 00:14:07,640 Speaker 6: it make his life any easier, simpler? Same difference. 278 00:14:08,200 --> 00:14:10,240 Speaker 3: No, I think it's the same. Like I said, he 279 00:14:10,280 --> 00:14:13,760 Speaker 3: was already running them like one company. I do wonder 280 00:14:13,760 --> 00:14:18,880 Speaker 3: what this means for live front of the pod who, Kurt, 281 00:14:18,920 --> 00:14:20,560 Speaker 3: I don't know. Do you have an understanding of what 282 00:14:20,840 --> 00:14:23,360 Speaker 3: her role is going forward. 283 00:14:23,160 --> 00:14:28,120 Speaker 11: Currently CEO of x Yeah, thoughts Kurt, I don't know. 284 00:14:28,160 --> 00:14:30,600 Speaker 11: And that was one of the questions I posed after this, right, 285 00:14:30,720 --> 00:14:34,840 Speaker 11: is what does this mean for her? In the one hand, 286 00:14:35,040 --> 00:14:38,040 Speaker 11: she could continue to run X in the way she's 287 00:14:38,080 --> 00:14:41,160 Speaker 11: already doing that as sort of maybe a business unit 288 00:14:41,240 --> 00:14:41,920 Speaker 11: of XAI. 289 00:14:42,240 --> 00:14:43,680 Speaker 9: Right, But as these. 290 00:14:43,520 --> 00:14:48,440 Speaker 11: Companies become closer and closer together, usually when there's a 291 00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:50,760 Speaker 11: merger like this, you know, you merge HR and you 292 00:14:50,880 --> 00:14:55,800 Speaker 11: merge sales, and you merge engineering, and so it kind 293 00:14:55,800 --> 00:14:57,680 Speaker 11: of becomes a little bit unless they're going to keep 294 00:14:57,840 --> 00:15:00,520 Speaker 11: X completely independent of Xai, which feel like it would 295 00:15:00,520 --> 00:15:03,400 Speaker 11: defeat the purpose of this merger. It sort of also 296 00:15:03,400 --> 00:15:07,080 Speaker 11: feels like it would erode her power, right because she's 297 00:15:07,080 --> 00:15:09,120 Speaker 11: not going to have as many people reporting to her, 298 00:15:09,200 --> 00:15:11,920 Speaker 11: as many divisions or whatever. So I don't know, I 299 00:15:11,960 --> 00:15:13,800 Speaker 11: don't know what's going to happen. She was obviously, you know, 300 00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:17,920 Speaker 11: she was cheerleading this deal when it happened on Friday, and. 301 00:15:20,640 --> 00:15:22,720 Speaker 6: Well it could just be a nice opportunity to actually 302 00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:24,480 Speaker 6: exit stage last year for her. 303 00:15:24,600 --> 00:15:26,520 Speaker 11: Yeah, yeah, but I don't know what's going to happen, 304 00:15:26,600 --> 00:15:27,200 Speaker 11: is the short answer. 305 00:15:27,320 --> 00:15:27,760 Speaker 5: Got it? 306 00:15:27,960 --> 00:15:30,680 Speaker 6: Kurt Wagner, as always, thank you for joining us, sir, 307 00:15:30,840 --> 00:15:35,200 Speaker 6: Congratulations on your brilliant December twenty twenty four prediction. 308 00:15:35,440 --> 00:15:37,440 Speaker 9: Thank you for having me hope to be back. 309 00:15:41,560 --> 00:15:45,320 Speaker 13: It's one of those things that may seem like it's 310 00:15:45,320 --> 00:15:47,440 Speaker 13: obviously important in the state of wisconstant, but I think 311 00:15:47,440 --> 00:15:50,320 Speaker 13: it could actually be important for the country as well, 312 00:15:50,720 --> 00:15:52,000 Speaker 13: and maybe for the world. 313 00:15:53,040 --> 00:16:02,480 Speaker 6: So okay, we're joined now by our other regular Dana Hall. Dana, 314 00:16:02,680 --> 00:16:05,440 Speaker 6: welcome back, he Hey, and Dan. 315 00:16:05,520 --> 00:16:05,880 Speaker 5: Of course. 316 00:16:05,960 --> 00:16:09,320 Speaker 6: Elon here is referring to the Supreme Court election coming 317 00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:12,960 Speaker 6: up in Wisconsin. The vote ends today results. Maybe we'll 318 00:16:12,960 --> 00:16:15,720 Speaker 6: know as soon as tonight. You have a terrific story 319 00:16:15,720 --> 00:16:19,320 Speaker 6: out about the election this morning. Remind us of the 320 00:16:19,400 --> 00:16:20,640 Speaker 6: particulars here. 321 00:16:21,600 --> 00:16:24,560 Speaker 4: Yeah, So, Wisconsin is one of the states that has 322 00:16:24,640 --> 00:16:28,480 Speaker 4: an open, you know, open election for its Supreme Court justices. 323 00:16:28,760 --> 00:16:31,720 Speaker 4: And Elon, as Elon does, is kind of like doubling 324 00:16:31,800 --> 00:16:35,120 Speaker 4: down on this race in Wisconsin. He flew to Wisconsin 325 00:16:35,160 --> 00:16:38,160 Speaker 4: on Sunday, gave a town hall. He also did some 326 00:16:38,280 --> 00:16:41,120 Speaker 4: kind of like tell a call about the race last night. 327 00:16:41,240 --> 00:16:44,000 Speaker 4: And this is all a time when there is enormous 328 00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:48,120 Speaker 4: backlash two Musk being involved with politics and the Trump 329 00:16:48,160 --> 00:16:52,640 Speaker 4: administration and Doge, but he is basically repeating his playbook, 330 00:16:52,720 --> 00:16:56,040 Speaker 4: you know, dangling money before voters. He wore a cheesehead 331 00:16:56,080 --> 00:16:58,840 Speaker 4: on stage and like he sort of was like, you know, 332 00:16:59,040 --> 00:17:00,800 Speaker 4: this is We've got to do this. People on his 333 00:17:00,960 --> 00:17:04,480 Speaker 4: pack is texting everyone, and it'll be a real test 334 00:17:04,520 --> 00:17:08,080 Speaker 4: of whether the political operation that he's built will endure 335 00:17:08,160 --> 00:17:12,600 Speaker 4: beyond Trump and be able to impact these statewide races. 336 00:17:12,920 --> 00:17:18,560 Speaker 6: Okay, and the vote for the Supreme Court justice will 337 00:17:18,960 --> 00:17:23,920 Speaker 6: whichever parties candidate gets it will effectively take control of 338 00:17:24,080 --> 00:17:26,639 Speaker 6: the Wisconsin Supreme Court. Correct correct. 339 00:17:26,720 --> 00:17:29,760 Speaker 4: Right now, it's a seven member court. Four to three 340 00:17:29,800 --> 00:17:32,560 Speaker 4: majority hangs in the balance, and you know state Supreme 341 00:17:32,560 --> 00:17:35,439 Speaker 4: Court does. It looks at everything from collective bargaining rights, 342 00:17:35,520 --> 00:17:39,320 Speaker 4: abortion rights, registricting. Registricting is always very important when it 343 00:17:39,320 --> 00:17:42,639 Speaker 4: comes to determining House seats, and so in Elon's mind, 344 00:17:42,760 --> 00:17:45,520 Speaker 4: this is like another fork in the road of destiny 345 00:17:45,560 --> 00:17:50,000 Speaker 4: for civilization, and he is, you know, encouraging everyone to 346 00:17:50,080 --> 00:17:53,879 Speaker 4: vote and really pushing it very hard in the final days. 347 00:17:54,240 --> 00:17:55,800 Speaker 6: One of the big questions we had at the time 348 00:17:55,880 --> 00:17:58,960 Speaker 6: last week was would the value the money he's putting 349 00:17:59,040 --> 00:18:05,760 Speaker 6: up ultimately be greater than the downside that he creates, 350 00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:09,800 Speaker 6: But by attaching his name to the Republican candidate there, 351 00:18:10,400 --> 00:18:13,920 Speaker 6: we weren't exactly sure at the time. Seven days later, 352 00:18:14,480 --> 00:18:17,760 Speaker 6: any greater clarity on that point, well. 353 00:18:17,640 --> 00:18:20,280 Speaker 4: I think, I mean, there's no question that Elon's involvement 354 00:18:20,560 --> 00:18:23,119 Speaker 4: is helping is shaping the contours of the race. I mean, 355 00:18:23,160 --> 00:18:25,159 Speaker 4: a lot of people went to see Elon speak on 356 00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:29,159 Speaker 4: Sunday night. His pack has door knockers, they are running 357 00:18:29,160 --> 00:18:33,080 Speaker 4: digital ads on Facebook. I mean, he is very much swinging, 358 00:18:33,240 --> 00:18:34,960 Speaker 4: helping to swing the race in the way that he 359 00:18:35,040 --> 00:18:38,840 Speaker 4: did when he barstormed across Pennsylvania for President Trump. But 360 00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:41,760 Speaker 4: what's the different this cycle is that Trump himself is 361 00:18:41,800 --> 00:18:43,840 Speaker 4: not on the ballot, and so it really remains to 362 00:18:43,880 --> 00:18:47,040 Speaker 4: be seen how close this election will be and whether 363 00:18:47,640 --> 00:18:50,639 Speaker 4: Musk's imprint had the suite that it did. Also, Elon 364 00:18:50,760 --> 00:18:54,720 Speaker 4: is a far less popular person now than he was 365 00:18:54,800 --> 00:18:55,560 Speaker 4: in October. 366 00:18:55,720 --> 00:18:59,879 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, Democrats are I mean Elon's involvement. He 367 00:19:00,440 --> 00:19:02,280 Speaker 3: is going to be a factor sort of on the 368 00:19:02,280 --> 00:19:05,920 Speaker 3: Democratic side. Democrats are tying this race to Elon Musk, 369 00:19:05,920 --> 00:19:08,600 Speaker 3: which would have happened probably even if he hadn't given 370 00:19:08,640 --> 00:19:11,280 Speaker 3: any money, frankly, because Elon Musk is like one of 371 00:19:11,320 --> 00:19:13,879 Speaker 3: the most unpopular parts of the Trace of Dose. 372 00:19:14,080 --> 00:19:14,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. 373 00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:17,040 Speaker 3: But the fact that he's giving all his money, of course, 374 00:19:17,240 --> 00:19:20,119 Speaker 3: is going to make those attacks stickier. That said, like 375 00:19:20,520 --> 00:19:24,600 Speaker 3: the money that Elon's giving is so so so much 376 00:19:25,080 --> 00:19:27,320 Speaker 3: like well, I don't think we Yeah, it's it's a 377 00:19:27,359 --> 00:19:29,439 Speaker 3: little bit hard to even get your head around it. 378 00:19:29,440 --> 00:19:31,560 Speaker 3: You know, last week how much what has been number? 379 00:19:31,760 --> 00:19:33,960 Speaker 3: We don't know the total number because this is all 380 00:19:33,960 --> 00:19:36,320 Speaker 3: happening so quickly. You know, last week we had Ted 381 00:19:36,440 --> 00:19:39,960 Speaker 3: Man here saying that you know, third party estimates were 382 00:19:39,960 --> 00:19:44,000 Speaker 3: putting it around fourteen million dollars out of somewhere in 383 00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:48,120 Speaker 3: the seventies. This is already the most expensive state judicial 384 00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:52,760 Speaker 3: race ever. And that's before we saw all this additional spending. 385 00:19:52,800 --> 00:19:55,240 Speaker 3: Those were that was mostly TV money. Now we're seeing 386 00:19:55,320 --> 00:19:59,320 Speaker 3: Musk writing, I think my count, Dana is three million 387 00:19:59,359 --> 00:20:00,600 Speaker 3: dollar checks thus formed. 388 00:20:00,600 --> 00:20:01,199 Speaker 5: I think that's right. 389 00:20:01,480 --> 00:20:06,360 Speaker 3: We've seen he's he's paying one hundred dollars per petition signer. 390 00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:09,000 Speaker 3: By the way, all these payments are sort of designed 391 00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:11,000 Speaker 3: to be like right up to the edge of the 392 00:20:11,000 --> 00:20:11,680 Speaker 3: election law. 393 00:20:11,840 --> 00:20:13,760 Speaker 6: The senses they are indeed on the right side of 394 00:20:13,760 --> 00:20:14,120 Speaker 6: the law. 395 00:20:15,040 --> 00:20:18,080 Speaker 3: Who knows, no, I don't think that sense is at 396 00:20:18,080 --> 00:20:21,719 Speaker 3: all clear. We were seeing repeated legal challenges, and you know, 397 00:20:21,840 --> 00:20:24,359 Speaker 3: even during this event, Musk acknowledged and he did He 398 00:20:24,440 --> 00:20:26,400 Speaker 3: did the same during the twenty twenty four race. 399 00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:29,119 Speaker 2: He acknowledged. This is the point. The point is to 400 00:20:29,320 --> 00:20:32,760 Speaker 2: to do these stunts and get media coverage when Democrats 401 00:20:32,800 --> 00:20:34,880 Speaker 2: say you are breaking election law. 402 00:20:34,840 --> 00:20:38,160 Speaker 6: Dan, did you have in that story today a hard 403 00:20:38,240 --> 00:20:40,400 Speaker 6: number on how much Musk has spent so far. 404 00:20:40,960 --> 00:20:42,880 Speaker 4: Well, the way that my brain thinks about the map 405 00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:46,240 Speaker 4: is the race is above eighty million total Musk is 406 00:20:46,280 --> 00:20:49,280 Speaker 4: put in I would say roughly twenty million. But to 407 00:20:49,359 --> 00:20:52,920 Speaker 4: Max's point, like we're not going to get a final 408 00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:55,080 Speaker 4: tally until later, but I would, I would. I think 409 00:20:55,119 --> 00:20:57,200 Speaker 4: it's fair to think of like Musk has put in 410 00:20:57,240 --> 00:21:00,119 Speaker 4: like a quarter or twenty five percent of all the 411 00:21:00,119 --> 00:21:01,840 Speaker 4: spending there is. 412 00:21:02,080 --> 00:21:05,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think we should think about twenty million. Again, Dana, 413 00:21:05,119 --> 00:21:07,240 Speaker 3: this is a guestimate, but like it's a lower it's 414 00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:08,560 Speaker 3: a lower limit. You know. 415 00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:10,600 Speaker 4: We just have to kind of remind our listeners that 416 00:21:10,680 --> 00:21:15,240 Speaker 4: the conventional wisdom in Washington was Elon and Trump are 417 00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:17,600 Speaker 4: not going to survive. They're going to have a big blowout. 418 00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:20,280 Speaker 4: Doe's just going to be this like short lived experiment 419 00:21:20,359 --> 00:21:22,879 Speaker 4: and then eventually Elon will take his ball and go 420 00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:27,000 Speaker 4: home and focus on Tesla. That hasn't happened yet. Tesla 421 00:21:27,080 --> 00:21:29,800 Speaker 4: stock is cratering, sales are going to be bad, and 422 00:21:29,880 --> 00:21:33,280 Speaker 4: yet Elon is doubling down on politics and making it 423 00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:36,560 Speaker 4: very clear that, you know, he it was not enough 424 00:21:36,560 --> 00:21:39,600 Speaker 4: to elect Trumps. He really wants to like keep the 425 00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:42,399 Speaker 4: House of Representatives, and he's going all in on these 426 00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:45,399 Speaker 4: state races. He's also giving money in Florida into some 427 00:21:45,520 --> 00:21:48,560 Speaker 4: house races there. So this is like a longer game 428 00:21:48,760 --> 00:21:51,960 Speaker 4: political play by Musk that Max and I have told 429 00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:54,320 Speaker 4: our listeners and our readers about for months now, Like 430 00:21:54,880 --> 00:21:59,040 Speaker 4: people have got to think wider about Musk's political ambitions. 431 00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:01,520 Speaker 6: Tell us a little bit about those votes in Florida. 432 00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:07,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, so you have two house races. One Florida's first, 433 00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:10,080 Speaker 3: which is in the Panhandle. It's Matt Gates's seat. That 434 00:22:10,280 --> 00:22:13,200 Speaker 3: race is thought to be you know, I mean, that's 435 00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:15,920 Speaker 3: a very, very heavily Republican district, would be very hard 436 00:22:15,920 --> 00:22:17,560 Speaker 3: for the Democrats to win. 437 00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:19,760 Speaker 2: Florida's sixth, which is the. 438 00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:22,359 Speaker 3: One where Elon Musk's pack came in at the very 439 00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:27,200 Speaker 3: last minute, is also heavily Republican, although not as heavily Republican, 440 00:22:27,240 --> 00:22:30,200 Speaker 3: and it looks like the Democrat might have kind of 441 00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:32,720 Speaker 3: an outside chance at least to make it close. We've 442 00:22:32,720 --> 00:22:37,240 Speaker 3: seen this kind of broader thing happen nationally where Republicans 443 00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:41,760 Speaker 3: are suddenly realizing that the electoral environment be very poor. 444 00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:46,040 Speaker 3: Trump pulled elist Stephonics nomination for UN Ambassador that was 445 00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:50,200 Speaker 3: seen as another effort to sort of shore up the House. 446 00:22:50,280 --> 00:22:53,119 Speaker 3: So you're seeing and that's one of the reasons. 447 00:22:53,119 --> 00:22:55,440 Speaker 6: Like, and Elon, as you said, in Florida, he's pretty 448 00:22:55,520 --> 00:22:57,760 Speaker 6: much involved, his packs involved pretty much in all these 449 00:22:57,800 --> 00:22:58,560 Speaker 6: in one shaper. 450 00:22:58,720 --> 00:22:59,200 Speaker 5: No, I think. 451 00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:02,359 Speaker 3: I think the one we know about is Florida six, uh, 452 00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:04,800 Speaker 3: the closer race, and he and it's not a ton 453 00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:08,560 Speaker 3: of money. I checked yesterday and it was sixty thousand dollars. 454 00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:12,560 Speaker 3: You know again, we're this is just a few days ago, 455 00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:16,280 Speaker 3: so you know, you could imagine it going up pretty quickly, 456 00:23:16,320 --> 00:23:18,399 Speaker 3: like if he does a TV buy or something. But 457 00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:20,880 Speaker 3: that said, this looks like more of a last minute thing, 458 00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:23,439 Speaker 3: not a you know where where Elon is reacting to 459 00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:25,840 Speaker 3: the same thing that Republicans nationally reacting. 460 00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:27,119 Speaker 6: To like a holy smoke. 461 00:23:27,160 --> 00:23:29,600 Speaker 3: Oh no, we need to like do it, do anything 462 00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:33,800 Speaker 3: we can to help. Wisconsin has been a much more deliberate, 463 00:23:34,160 --> 00:23:38,920 Speaker 3: basically series of acts of political because the whole way 464 00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:42,040 Speaker 3: there's huge number of employees canvassers on the ground, a 465 00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:44,359 Speaker 3: lot of money. Like Dannis said, and you know, musk 466 00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:48,280 Speaker 3: Is during this town hall basically said I don't expect 467 00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:51,919 Speaker 3: to win now. Politicians and activists say that all the 468 00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:55,200 Speaker 3: time in a way to like, you know, lower expectations. 469 00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:57,040 Speaker 3: Maybe if he does win, then then he gets to 470 00:23:57,040 --> 00:23:59,760 Speaker 3: have a huge celebration. But but if you take him 471 00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:02,720 Speaker 3: out of his word, I don't think we should think 472 00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:05,359 Speaker 3: of this as like if Elon loses, he's out of 473 00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:08,879 Speaker 3: Republican politics. My reading is he is no matter what 474 00:24:09,520 --> 00:24:12,760 Speaker 3: after the Wisconsin Yeah, he is going to play. This 475 00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:14,720 Speaker 3: is more like a signal of what is to come 476 00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:16,560 Speaker 3: in the midterms rather than this is going to be 477 00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:19,560 Speaker 3: a test for how he behaves in the midterms. 478 00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:19,800 Speaker 5: Yeah. 479 00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:24,240 Speaker 6: And Dana also referenced how his involvement, as we well know, 480 00:24:25,119 --> 00:24:29,560 Speaker 6: is hurting His involvement in politics is hurting his company, Tesla, 481 00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:32,119 Speaker 6: quite a bit, and when he spoke the other day 482 00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:34,399 Speaker 6: in Wisconsin, he mentioned that this is what he had 483 00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:34,920 Speaker 6: to say. 484 00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:38,200 Speaker 13: It's well, you know, my Teslis stock and the stock 485 00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:40,920 Speaker 13: of everyone who holst Tesla's gone went roughly in half. 486 00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:44,199 Speaker 13: I mean, it's a big deal. So not only is 487 00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:47,520 Speaker 13: am I not getting I'm not getting paid definitely not 488 00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:49,760 Speaker 13: stealing money and would never get away with it, but 489 00:24:50,119 --> 00:24:52,440 Speaker 13: the value my Teslis stock is in half. So this 490 00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:54,320 Speaker 13: is a very expensive job, is what I'm saying. 491 00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:56,719 Speaker 2: Can I just do a little fact check here, so 492 00:24:56,880 --> 00:24:59,640 Speaker 2: the stock in half. I don't totally know what he's 493 00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:00,320 Speaker 2: talking about it. 494 00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:02,240 Speaker 3: I mean, I suppose what he's talking about is that 495 00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:05,919 Speaker 3: the stock is down from reaching its peak of like 496 00:25:06,080 --> 00:25:09,480 Speaker 3: post Trump euphoria in December. I think it's not about 497 00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:14,080 Speaker 3: forty percent, not quite half, but like it's still like about. 498 00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:15,960 Speaker 2: Where it was when the election happened. 499 00:25:16,040 --> 00:25:20,360 Speaker 3: And we've seen Elon express similar sentiment elsewhere he was well, 500 00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:24,239 Speaker 3: I guess Tim Waltz was being mean to him, Like 501 00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:27,240 Speaker 3: he's definitely in a in a sort of mode where 502 00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:29,679 Speaker 3: he's primed to feel aggrieved. 503 00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:31,760 Speaker 6: But again, like, but here's the way to think about it, 504 00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:34,320 Speaker 6: if you want to if you want to back him 505 00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:38,560 Speaker 6: on the way he's framing the numbers. Trump wins. He 506 00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:41,760 Speaker 6: plays a huge role in getting Trump elected. He's now 507 00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:44,920 Speaker 6: in with the administration. He and his company stand to 508 00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:49,280 Speaker 6: benefit a lot from that. Hence Tesla rips sores. It's 509 00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:53,600 Speaker 6: only when the true role he's going to play with 510 00:25:53,680 --> 00:25:56,159 Speaker 6: Doge and what Doge is going to do and the 511 00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:59,080 Speaker 6: havoc is going to reek that you really start to 512 00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:01,879 Speaker 6: see the stock crater believe, I mean, perhaps coming down 513 00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:05,240 Speaker 6: of it, I get to be backing Trump. I could 514 00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:07,879 Speaker 6: be his big you know, financial arm. I could be 515 00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:10,440 Speaker 6: tight with him and I don't need to do Doge. 516 00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:13,000 Speaker 6: Why do I need to do Doge in in order 517 00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:15,560 Speaker 6: to be close to Trump? I guess would be the 518 00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:18,800 Speaker 6: spin he's putting on it. But Den, while all this 519 00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:24,119 Speaker 6: is swirling, you also had Trump announced auto tariffs, which 520 00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:26,879 Speaker 6: we've been expecting a lot of tariffs, and a lot 521 00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:30,119 Speaker 6: of tarriffs are apparently coming tomorrow. We didn't quite expect 522 00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:32,439 Speaker 6: auto tariffs to come, and there's been a lot of 523 00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:37,240 Speaker 6: debate as to whether Tesla benefits from these auto tariffs 524 00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:38,640 Speaker 6: or is hurt by them. 525 00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:41,240 Speaker 4: I don't know why people, I mean I expected auto 526 00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:44,280 Speaker 4: tariffs to come. I mean Trump campaigned on like America first, 527 00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:48,439 Speaker 4: and Tesla's CFO said, we are our profitability is going 528 00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:50,640 Speaker 4: to be hurt by tariffs on the last earnings call. 529 00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:55,399 Speaker 4: So like what shape the tariffs took, you know, people 530 00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:57,399 Speaker 4: were confused about. I think I think what people have 531 00:26:57,440 --> 00:27:01,760 Speaker 4: gotten wrong is they think that test somehow exempt from tariffs, 532 00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:04,960 Speaker 4: and they're not because it's not just cars, it's parts, 533 00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:08,040 Speaker 4: and Tesla does import a fair number of parts from 534 00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:11,679 Speaker 4: other countries, and so they're not like immune from tariffs. 535 00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:14,000 Speaker 4: They just start a slightly better position because they don't. 536 00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:16,240 Speaker 4: You know, the cars that they sell the United States 537 00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:18,879 Speaker 4: are made in the United States. They're not importing cars 538 00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:19,480 Speaker 4: from Mexico. 539 00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:21,800 Speaker 3: It could be a big day tomorrow, right because we've 540 00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:26,000 Speaker 3: Liberation Day. Well, we're gonna learn yeah, because it's liberation 541 00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:29,600 Speaker 3: Day and we're gonna find out exactly how these tariffs shakeout. 542 00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:31,919 Speaker 3: I mean, that's come on, that's wishful thinking. But anyway, 543 00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:34,720 Speaker 3: there'll be some kind of tariff update. We're gonna get 544 00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:35,360 Speaker 3: the results. 545 00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:36,919 Speaker 6: We're not gonna be liberated tomorrow. 546 00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:38,600 Speaker 3: We're gonna Dan and I will be staying up late, 547 00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:40,840 Speaker 3: but most normal people will get the results from the 548 00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:45,119 Speaker 3: Wisconsin election in the morning, and then TESLA is about 549 00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:48,240 Speaker 3: to report what most analysts believe is going to be 550 00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:50,720 Speaker 3: a very very, very bad quarter. 551 00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:53,840 Speaker 6: That's right. I did mean to ask this. This comes 552 00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:59,280 Speaker 6: out tomorrow evening, Daniel, tomorrow morning, Tomorrow morninging. Okay, wow, 553 00:27:59,320 --> 00:28:01,000 Speaker 6: it is, Yeah, it is a big day. 554 00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:03,399 Speaker 2: I mean, it could be like it's like a triple witchy. 555 00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:04,400 Speaker 6: It could be like a. 556 00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:06,679 Speaker 3: Perfect storm of bad. On the other hand, you know, 557 00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:10,080 Speaker 3: maybe who knows, Maybe it's all good. Maybe maybe they 558 00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:13,159 Speaker 3: romp in Wisconsin and and Tesla does a little bit. 559 00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:16,240 Speaker 3: You know, the expectations are so low right now with 560 00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:20,480 Speaker 3: Tesla's deliveries, you know, notwithstanding last week's conversation where you know, 561 00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:22,159 Speaker 3: of course we talked to a bull, but like if 562 00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:23,920 Speaker 3: you talk to a lot of analysts, they are very 563 00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:27,480 Speaker 3: down on this because of the political stuff, because of 564 00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:28,120 Speaker 3: what we've. 565 00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:29,200 Speaker 2: Seen from Europe. 566 00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:31,680 Speaker 3: So if you know, I guess there's a possibility he 567 00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:32,639 Speaker 3: could surprise somehow. 568 00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:42,120 Speaker 6: Okay, super hard pivot here, Max, away from Tesla auto 569 00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:47,320 Speaker 6: sales and tariffs. Let's talk babies, all right. 570 00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:52,920 Speaker 3: So this is baby number thirteen. I believe that we 571 00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:54,920 Speaker 3: know thirteen. There are fourteen? 572 00:28:55,440 --> 00:28:58,120 Speaker 4: Well, there are fourteen. I guess it's like are we counting? 573 00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:02,080 Speaker 4: Ashley's is number thirteen and Chavon's fourth is number fourteen, 574 00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:04,360 Speaker 4: and we don't know the order in which they were born. 575 00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:06,520 Speaker 6: I was, can you show your math? 576 00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:07,560 Speaker 2: Max? Yeah? 577 00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:09,959 Speaker 3: So sorry, Yeah, this is in the order that we 578 00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:13,520 Speaker 3: learned of the babies existing. Yes, this is maybe thirteen 579 00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:18,400 Speaker 3: or fourteen. And essentially we saw sort of a Twitter 580 00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:23,040 Speaker 3: spat between Elon Musk and the mother of this child, 581 00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:28,520 Speaker 3: Ashley Saint Clair, who is a conservative influencer. She showed 582 00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:31,920 Speaker 3: up in sort of a paparazzi video, essentially saying that 583 00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:36,200 Speaker 3: she was selling her Tesla in order to pay for 584 00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:39,240 Speaker 3: the cost of, you know, raising your children because Elon Musk, 585 00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:42,480 Speaker 3: according to her, has you know, cut her all, you know, 586 00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:44,600 Speaker 3: basically essentially stopped paying as much in. 587 00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:48,760 Speaker 6: Child This is another thing driving consumers with one more 588 00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:52,480 Speaker 6: Tesla owner who who if you were bearished before, you're 589 00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:53,360 Speaker 6: bearish now. 590 00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:55,160 Speaker 2: Growing one step further than the sticker. 591 00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:58,800 Speaker 3: Musk responded, I don't know if the child is mine 592 00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:01,600 Speaker 3: or not, but don't sell your car. Put him not 593 00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:05,280 Speaker 3: against finding out finding out? 594 00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:08,040 Speaker 2: Okay, I don't know what that means. 595 00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:10,560 Speaker 4: But then she responded, well, we asked you to take 596 00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:13,120 Speaker 4: a paternity test before the child was even born, and 597 00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:16,800 Speaker 4: you refuse and you're a petulant child. Like it's just 598 00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:19,840 Speaker 4: gotten very ugly. Laura Lumer is sort of adjacent to 599 00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:20,400 Speaker 4: all this too. 600 00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:23,920 Speaker 2: It's just like, what's Laura she's attacking? 601 00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:26,800 Speaker 3: So so Ashley Sinclair because she is beefing with Elon 602 00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:30,760 Speaker 3: Musk is now on the wrong side of the conservative 603 00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:35,600 Speaker 3: Twitter ecosystem. They are, including Lumur, are kind of talking 604 00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:39,040 Speaker 3: about her as a essentially as a turncoat and and worse. 605 00:30:39,320 --> 00:30:41,760 Speaker 2: You know, you can imagine some of the kind. 606 00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:45,360 Speaker 3: Of sexist tropes that are being deployed against the you know, 607 00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:48,240 Speaker 3: the mother of one of his children, particularly locked in 608 00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:51,320 Speaker 3: a you know, dispute over her child support. Obviously, it's 609 00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:55,120 Speaker 3: it's not pretty. I can't imagine, and it does it does? 610 00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:56,280 Speaker 2: I have to say it is. 611 00:30:56,680 --> 00:30:59,320 Speaker 3: It is does show you maybe this was obvious, This 612 00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:02,520 Speaker 3: is probably obvious to most normal people. But Musk has 613 00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:05,200 Speaker 3: sort of gone around acting like he can have as 614 00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:08,000 Speaker 3: many children as he wants without any negative consequences. And 615 00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:10,680 Speaker 3: now we see, you know, he's in a dispute with 616 00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:13,800 Speaker 3: Ashley Saint Clair, He's in a dispute with Grimes, who's 617 00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:16,320 Speaker 3: a musician and the mother of another one of his children. 618 00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:19,200 Speaker 2: You know, it's it's getting messy. 619 00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:22,640 Speaker 4: Let's not forget about Vivian, his biological child, who is 620 00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:24,960 Speaker 4: just on the cover of teen Vogue. She is being 621 00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:27,240 Speaker 4: very brave speaking out and giving her side of the 622 00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:29,640 Speaker 4: story about what it was like to have Elon Musk 623 00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:30,120 Speaker 4: as a father. 624 00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:33,320 Speaker 6: Okay, we're going to rap, but as we do, Dana 625 00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:36,120 Speaker 6: On Elon ink here you are the keeper of such 626 00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:38,240 Speaker 6: things and I have to say, at the very beginning 627 00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:40,560 Speaker 6: of this little segment, I was confused, what is the 628 00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:46,160 Speaker 6: official number of children that you say? And as a 629 00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:49,680 Speaker 6: result we say, Elon Musk currently has This. 630 00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:52,480 Speaker 4: Is the line that I use. Elon Musk has fathered 631 00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:56,120 Speaker 4: at least fourteen children that we know of. 632 00:31:56,920 --> 00:31:59,920 Speaker 2: Very important. You use that you have that last. 633 00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:04,280 Speaker 6: Clad Very good, you know. I in hindsight, somebody in 634 00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:06,840 Speaker 6: the December twenty twenty four predictions should have come up 635 00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:09,360 Speaker 6: with a forecast on how many kids. 636 00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:12,000 Speaker 3: We had one a week Dan Harmony yeh senior editor 637 00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:15,640 Speaker 3: and there on this very show. I can't remember, but 638 00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:18,360 Speaker 3: she predicted more children and it has come true. No, no, no, no, 639 00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:19,400 Speaker 3: but that's not a prediction. 640 00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:20,600 Speaker 5: Well she'll have more. 641 00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:24,480 Speaker 6: That's like saying the sun's gonna come up. How many children? 642 00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:26,000 Speaker 6: Is really the prick that's gonna be one of my 643 00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:27,000 Speaker 6: December twenty twenty five. 644 00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:29,360 Speaker 3: I feel like you're just ben because Chancer or whoever 645 00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:31,960 Speaker 3: the hell you pick to win the derby runs. 646 00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:35,320 Speaker 6: This is injured runs this weekend. Max. Before I say 647 00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:37,360 Speaker 6: goodbye to you and Dana, remind us one more time. 648 00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:41,240 Speaker 3: Yep, everybody's business. It'll be in your feed on Friday. 649 00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:45,120 Speaker 3: Please let us know what you think and give us chance. 650 00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:47,120 Speaker 3: We're really excited about this show and we think you're 651 00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:47,920 Speaker 3: gonna really like it. 652 00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:48,640 Speaker 5: Terrific. 653 00:32:48,920 --> 00:32:51,560 Speaker 6: Max Dana, thanks as always, thanks for having us. 654 00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:51,920 Speaker 5: Thank you. 655 00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:02,560 Speaker 6: This episode was produced by Stacy Wong. Anna Masirakis is 656 00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:05,880 Speaker 6: our editor, and Rayhan Harmansi our senior editor. Blake Maples 657 00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:10,480 Speaker 6: handles engineering in Dave percellfactchecks. Our supervising producer is Magnus Henrickson. 658 00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:14,160 Speaker 6: The Elaning theme is written and performed by Taka Yasuzawa 659 00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:18,240 Speaker 6: and Alex Sudijira. Brandon Francis Newnham is our executive producer, 660 00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:21,200 Speaker 6: and Sage Bauman is the head of Bloomberg Podcasts. A 661 00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:24,240 Speaker 6: big thanks as always to our supporters Joel Weber and 662 00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:28,080 Speaker 6: Brad Stone. I'm David Papadoppolos. If you have a minute, 663 00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:31,320 Speaker 6: rate and review our show, it'll help other listeners find us. 664 00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:42,960 Speaker 5: See you next week. Hey, there, don't go yet. 665 00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:44,480 Speaker 6: I want to tell you about a new series for 666 00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:47,880 Speaker 6: my colleagues here at Bloomberg. It's called Levittown. It's about 667 00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:51,800 Speaker 6: a technology that's moving faster than the law, about dozens 668 00:33:51,840 --> 00:33:54,280 Speaker 6: of young women in a New York suburb who discovered 669 00:33:54,360 --> 00:33:57,680 Speaker 6: manipulated photos of themselves in a porn website. Told there 670 00:33:57,720 --> 00:34:00,400 Speaker 6: isn't much the police or anyone else can do, decide 671 00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:03,720 Speaker 6: to fight back, joining a global battle against deep fakes. 672 00:34:04,280 --> 00:34:06,600 Speaker 6: Please note the trailer for the show you were about 673 00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:08,200 Speaker 6: to hear features adult themes. 674 00:34:15,640 --> 00:34:18,760 Speaker 12: Five years ago, this was a vast checkerboard at Potato 675 00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:23,200 Speaker 12: Farms on New York's Long Island. Today this is Levittown, 676 00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:26,240 Speaker 12: one of the most remarkable housing developments ever conceived. 677 00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:35,240 Speaker 7: Levettown, New York, America's first suburb, row after row after 678 00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:41,120 Speaker 7: row of cookie cutter homes, the picture of the American dream. 679 00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:48,520 Speaker 7: But recently, underneath the facade of perfect order, a group 680 00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:53,400 Speaker 7: of young women found themselves in an AI fueled nightmare. 681 00:34:54,560 --> 00:35:00,360 Speaker 1: Someone was posting photos of many of the girls that 682 00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:03,240 Speaker 1: we had gone to school with. There was one picture 683 00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:09,759 Speaker 1: of me in a bathing suit, and I didn't have 684 00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:13,040 Speaker 1: a bathing suit on anymore. It was just me naked, 685 00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:17,520 Speaker 1: well not me, but me with someone else's body parts 686 00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:19,759 Speaker 1: that looked exactly like my own. 687 00:35:21,920 --> 00:35:25,560 Speaker 8: Over the last few years, rapid breakthroughs and machine learning 688 00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:28,879 Speaker 8: have made it a lot easier and cheaper to make 689 00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:32,960 Speaker 8: real looking photos or videos of pretty much anything you 690 00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:36,800 Speaker 8: can think of. But innovation comes at a price. 691 00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:38,680 Speaker 3: I felt gross. 692 00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:40,600 Speaker 5: I felt like I needed to take a shower. I 693 00:35:40,640 --> 00:35:41,799 Speaker 5: felt like I wanted to cry. 694 00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:45,120 Speaker 2: I wanted to throw up, I wanted to scream. 695 00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:49,720 Speaker 7: This is a story about a technology that is moving 696 00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:54,399 Speaker 7: faster than the law, where everyone is a suspect, even 697 00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:55,160 Speaker 7: your neighbors. 698 00:35:55,840 --> 00:35:57,719 Speaker 1: It was always in the back of my head, like, oh, 699 00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:01,040 Speaker 1: it's someone that I know. How you'll find out who 700 00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:06,800 Speaker 1: that someone is? When you know so many people from school, soccer, 701 00:36:07,239 --> 00:36:08,240 Speaker 1: all these things. 702 00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:15,080 Speaker 8: What we discovered in Levertown led us on a winding journey. 703 00:36:15,560 --> 00:36:17,080 Speaker 8: I just always had in the back of my mind 704 00:36:17,239 --> 00:36:19,840 Speaker 8: that any of them could. 705 00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:21,680 Speaker 2: Be the one. 706 00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:24,759 Speaker 8: Through the darkest corners of the Internet, they. 707 00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:28,759 Speaker 11: Call it an arms race between law enforcement and technology, 708 00:36:29,239 --> 00:36:30,600 Speaker 11: and it's just we're losing. 709 00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:32,520 Speaker 9: We are absolutely losing. 710 00:36:33,040 --> 00:36:37,720 Speaker 8: Where online vigilantes and enterprising detectives are joining forces. 711 00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:40,680 Speaker 6: If you're given prey, you want to go and get it. 712 00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:46,880 Speaker 7: In this story, the victims flip the script, band together 713 00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:52,320 Speaker 7: and fight back alongside some unexpected global allies. 714 00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:58,960 Speaker 8: I'm Margie Murphy and I'm Olivia Carvill. This is Levitown, 715 00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:04,160 Speaker 8: a new Pops series from iHeart Podcasts, Bloomberg, and Kaleidoscope. 716 00:37:04,600 --> 00:37:08,640 Speaker 8: Listen to Levettown starting on March twenty, first on Bloomberg's 717 00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:13,080 Speaker 8: Big Take podcast. Find it on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 718 00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:15,239 Speaker 8: or wherever you get your podcasts.