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Speaker 1: Welcome to Zero. I am Akshatarati. This week what happened

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Speaker 1: at COP thirty. For the last two weeks, tens of

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Speaker 1: thousands of people have taken to the city of blen

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Speaker 1: at the mouth of the Amazon River to take part

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Speaker 1: in the annual United Nations Climate Summit COP thirty. These

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Speaker 1: COP meetings last two weeks and involve tense negotiations among

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Speaker 1: all the world's countries. In Brazil this time, there was

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Speaker 1: a lot more than that. There were indigenous protests, daily rainstorms,

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Speaker 1: and even a fire at the COP venue. So at

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Speaker 1: the end of it all, what did COP thirty achieve?

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Speaker 1: That's what we are going to discuss today. And joining

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Speaker 1: me to do that is my Bloombergreen colleague Gender Louis,

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Speaker 1: who was at COP thirty till the very end and

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Speaker 1: has just come off a long night watching the negotiation.

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Speaker 1: Strap up, Jen, come back to Zero.

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Speaker 2: Thank you, Akshad. Glad to be here.

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Speaker 1: So before we get into all the substantial things that

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Speaker 1: happened at COP thirty, let's start at the place where

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Speaker 1: most people were a few months ago, still talking about

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Speaker 1: logistics and the challenge of hosting a COP at the

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Speaker 1: mouth of the mighty Amazon River. How did it all go.

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Speaker 3: I think it went better than expected because months ago

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Speaker 3: we were talking about, you know, the cruise ships that

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Speaker 3: were going to be moored here to host tens of

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Speaker 3: thousands of delegates, you know, the people who would have

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Speaker 3: to live in shipping containers, the lack of infrastructure to

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Speaker 3: really support this COP. There were challenges. There was some

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Speaker 3: concerns about security. There were concerns about flooding in the

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Speaker 3: venue and how that might interact with wiring at the

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Speaker 3: site that was of course hastily constructed before this whole COP.

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Speaker 3: And you know, in general, I think it actually went

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Speaker 3: fairly smoothly. Delegates were able to get to the site

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Speaker 3: and do the hard work of COP. The folks on

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Speaker 3: cruise ships and there were many delegates and others on

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Speaker 3: cruise ships had a long haul to get.

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Speaker 2: To the site.

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Speaker 3: But in the end they were able to do so,

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Speaker 3: and they were able to find lodging for Saturday night

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Speaker 3: those that needed it as the talks went into overtime.

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Speaker 3: Of course, I can't not mention the fire that occurred

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Speaker 3: in the penultimate day of the official COP schedule, which

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Speaker 3: happened to add a pavilion and of course opened up

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Speaker 3: the tent that hung over all of us, and really

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Speaker 3: for a few minutes there looked like I was close by,

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Speaker 3: and for a few minutes there I could see the

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Speaker 3: smoke but not the flames. It looked like something that

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Speaker 3: could become very bad, very quickly, had the officials not

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Speaker 3: responded so quickly. You know, you had tons of officials

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Speaker 3: running by with their fire gear and with the extinguishers

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Speaker 3: and really quickly taking care of that. But of course it,

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Speaker 3: you know, was a difficult thing. On the penultimate day

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Speaker 3: of cop halting, a lot of negotiations at a tricky

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Speaker 3: time for about six hours while they inspected the venue,

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Speaker 3: got things reopened again.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's been the first cup in a while

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Speaker 1: in the Southern Hemisphere in November, which means it's getting

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Speaker 1: into the hot period. And we've always thought, you know,

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Speaker 1: going to cops over the last few years, why do

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Speaker 1: they host a cop during winter and talk about global warming. Well,

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Speaker 1: this time they did feel the heat and the fire,

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Speaker 1: as it turns out, and a little bit of the flooding.

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Speaker 1: You know, I grew up in a city of two

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Speaker 1: million people in India, which is about the same size

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Speaker 1: of Villain, So I had like this deja vou, like

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Speaker 1: I'd been to a place like this before when I

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Speaker 1: was going through the city, but the heat in the

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Speaker 1: humidity was quite a lot. Then. The other thing about

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Speaker 1: doing this at the mouth of the Amazon was to

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Speaker 1: give delegates a flavor of what it is like to

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Speaker 1: be in the rainforest. You know, you and I along

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Speaker 1: with our bloomber Colley's got a little bit of that taste.

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Speaker 1: Going into an island nearby. What was that like?

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, we had a great encounter, and many of

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Speaker 3: the delegates actually took the same trek over to an island,

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Speaker 3: you know, just a short ride away essentially from the

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Speaker 3: city of Blame, you know, where you saw obviously the

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Speaker 3: lush rainforest. We happened to see a cacao farm and

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Speaker 3: talked with the proprietors who are doing really interesting things

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Speaker 3: to not just grow cocaw, but preserve diversity in the region,

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Speaker 3: not just grow one species, and really deal with actually

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Speaker 3: on the ground the changing impacts, you know, the impacts

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Speaker 3: of climate change that have made their growing seasons and

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Speaker 3: the weather patterns in this region. They believe different in

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Speaker 3: their harvest, even different, they told us. Anyway, that's their perception.

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Speaker 3: But you know, it was a flavor, and it was

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Speaker 3: a moment to see a little bit of life in

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Speaker 3: this region. Of course, Belome is a city, it's a

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Speaker 3: relatively poor city with so many people in this region.

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Speaker 3: And yet you know, with this visit, with the rides

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Speaker 3: across the river, with even those daily thundering rainfalls, you

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Speaker 3: really just got a sense of just a little sense

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Speaker 3: of what it is like to live in a place

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Speaker 3: like this, and that I think is something that many

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Speaker 3: delegates from around the world wouldn't have experienced otherwise and

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Speaker 3: really drove home some of the things that we're talking

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Speaker 3: about in these negotiating rooms.

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Speaker 1: Now, let's come to the headaches that the negotiators had

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Speaker 1: to deal with these rooms. Coming into COP thirty, we

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Speaker 1: knew this was the tenth year of the anniversary of

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Speaker 1: the Paris Agreement. We knew that all the major items

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Speaker 1: under the Paris Agreement had kind of been agreed upon already,

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Speaker 1: and the Brazilian hosts had talked a little bit about

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Speaker 1: forests that they wanted to make sure, because you're coming

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Speaker 1: to the Amazon, that we try and figure out how

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Speaker 1: to stop deforestation, a really important thing. But beyond that,

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Speaker 1: the only main agenda item that I could think of

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Speaker 1: was that, look, countries have to submit their climate plans

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Speaker 1: for twenty thirty five. This is the cop at which

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Speaker 1: those plans will be summed up, and we will know

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Speaker 1: for sure that those plans are nowhere enough to keep

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Speaker 1: us on the Paris trajectory, and that Brazil and COP

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Speaker 1: thirty and its presidency will have to stand up and

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Speaker 1: make sure to show in this time of geopolitical tension,

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Speaker 1: that the world still cares about this and the world

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Speaker 1: wants to get back on the trajectory. So we'll talk

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Speaker 1: about for us, we'll talk about these climate plans. But

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Speaker 1: before we do that, were there other items that were

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Speaker 1: of interest to you, Jen?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, you know there were On the technical agenda,

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Speaker 3: I will just say, you know, there's this prescribed Paris

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Speaker 3: Agreement work schedule, and and those items seemed a little

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Speaker 3: tedious at times, in lackluster, and yet were of great importance.

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Speaker 3: That includes, you know, really narrowing down the indicators for

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Speaker 3: assessing climate adaptation and how we're doing, and that which

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Speaker 3: you know started somewhere north of one thousand at one

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Speaker 3: point and got down to under one hundred, and that's

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Speaker 3: considered a success by some.

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Speaker 1: The global goal on adaptation as it's called.

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Speaker 3: And then we also had some separate work both on

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Speaker 3: mitigation and adjust transition.

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Speaker 2: There was workaround gender.

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Speaker 3: These are all kind of in the prescribed pathways of Paris.

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Speaker 3: Like I said, there was also a clamor at the

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Speaker 3: start by some countries to talk more about trade and

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Speaker 3: what they perceive as unilateral trade measures that are slowing

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Speaker 3: the transition away from fossil fuels and raising the costs.

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Speaker 1: Well, the obvious one at that point, I would think

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Speaker 1: is Donald Trump's tariffs, but they weren't talking about Donald

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Speaker 1: Trump's tariffs on that case, right.

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Speaker 3: You're right, this was much more you know, some folks

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Speaker 3: might have had Donald Trump's tariffs in mind, but this

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Speaker 3: was much more an assault on the EU's carbon border

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Speaker 3: adjustment mechanism, which has drawn a lot of ire from

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Speaker 3: developing nations, and it really put the EU on the

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Speaker 3: back foot and kind of defending this throughout the two weeks.

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Speaker 3: I would just note there was also obviously there's it's

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Speaker 3: not a COP if there's not discussion about finance, and

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Speaker 3: there was a push by some countries early on to

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Speaker 3: make sure that we discussed finance at this COP and

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Speaker 3: that it had a place on the agenda.

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Speaker 1: There's always this talk of trade offs at COP, so

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Speaker 1: all the developing countries want to make sure that they're

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Speaker 1: going to get finance from rich countries. That caused this

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Speaker 1: problem to both cut emissions but also really to adapt

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Speaker 1: to the warming that's already occurred. And then rich countries

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Speaker 1: in response say, sure, we'll try and figure out if

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Speaker 1: there's any money in our pockets, but we won't give

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Speaker 1: you any money unless you actually cut emissions. And so

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Speaker 1: when it comes to looking at the gap between where

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Speaker 1: the world is going and where the world committed under

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Speaker 1: the Paras Agreement to go, that gap needed to be

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Speaker 1: filled with ways in which the climate plan could be

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Speaker 1: made ambitious. So what was Brazil's response to try and

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Speaker 1: bridge the gap between climate ambition of trying to keep

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Speaker 1: warming below one point five degrees celsius and the climate

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Speaker 1: plans which currently say we could be going beyond two

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Speaker 1: point five degrees celsius.

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Speaker 3: Well, I think it was actually twofold, and you saw

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Speaker 3: it right from the start when Brazil's President Lula came

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Speaker 3: to the COP it was actually two days before the

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Speaker 3: COP and made this really remarkable and surprising call for

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Speaker 3: road maps as He called them to help countries not

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Speaker 3: only transition away from fossil fuels that are the biggest

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Speaker 3: driver of global warming, but also to combat deforestation and

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Speaker 3: so on one level, he was trying to muster financial

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Speaker 3: support for a new tropical Forest Forever facility, a fund

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Speaker 3: to deal with deforestation. You know, it was a challenging

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Speaker 3: push and originally, you know, supporters of this were aiming

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Speaker 3: for twenty five billion dollars in support. Then they had

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Speaker 3: to reduce the goal to about ten billion dollars in

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Speaker 3: the end. At the end of cop they have about

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Speaker 3: six billion dollars committed, with the hope for more. Some

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Speaker 3: of those commitments are conditional on more support, but that

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Speaker 3: is an ongoing effort and something that they can still

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Speaker 3: look on as some level of success. Then you also had,

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Speaker 3: you know, this push to deliver roadmaps or set up

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Speaker 3: some kind of formal process for creating guideline for this

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Speaker 3: energy transition commitment that countries made two years ago in

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Speaker 3: Dubai when they said, you know, they supported a just

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Speaker 3: orderly transition away from oil, gas and coal. You know,

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Speaker 3: that's left folks two years later countries wondering, well, how

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Speaker 3: do I do that? What do I prioritize, is cole

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Speaker 3: the first thing I should be getting out of my

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Speaker 3: energy mix? Where does gas fit in? How long should

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Speaker 3: this take? All those questions really are are tough on

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Speaker 3: an individual level, and there was a clamor and there

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Speaker 3: has been a clamor to discuss this, to kind of

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Speaker 3: create a formal process. This roadmap, if you will. It

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Speaker 3: was announced by Lula again at the start of COP essentially,

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Speaker 3: and then Marina Silva, Brazil's environment minister, made an impassioned

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Speaker 3: plea a week later, kind of echoing this call. And

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Speaker 3: what's interesting is over the two weeks you just saw

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Speaker 3: this thing snowball. You had, you know, Columbia lead its

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Speaker 3: own declaration for road maps, UK and the EU also

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Speaker 3: got involved trying to push this through. You know, for

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Speaker 3: a COP that was was really starting on some more

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Speaker 3: routine items and had far less negotiation. It ended up being,

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Speaker 3: you know, a pretty all consuming and defining work over

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Speaker 3: the course of two weeks.

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Speaker 1: And as you and our colleague John Anger and Fabiano

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Speaker 1: Maisinavi followed in the last couple of days, like the

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Speaker 1: very tense moments when this kind of negotiation brings the

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Speaker 1: big powers to head, we know what happened in the end,

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Speaker 1: but how did it all play out.

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Speaker 3: It was really quite fascinating because you saw countries, particularly

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Speaker 3: the UK and the EU.

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Speaker 2: Being willing to draw a red line on this issue.

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Speaker 3: You know, they wanted to see some more ambition reflected

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Speaker 3: in the actual text. And again this reflects that discontent

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Speaker 3: and frustration with the looming gap between what needs to

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Speaker 3: be done to keep temperature rise and check whether it's

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Speaker 3: two degrees or one point five and what is actually

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Speaker 3: being done and what is committed. And so you saw

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Speaker 3: that frustration born out in these final hours, really the

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Speaker 3: last day and a half of the COP where these countries,

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Speaker 3: some of them said, you know, this is a red

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Speaker 3: line for us. We are willing to veto this final

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Speaker 3: text if we don't get some more ambition. You also

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Speaker 3: had pushback from Saudi Arabia, Russia and other countries behind

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Speaker 3: closed doors that created complications around this. At the very

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Speaker 3: really the final hours of the COP there was some

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Speaker 3: kind of compromise negotiated. It's far from what roadmap supporters want,

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Speaker 3: but it creates a pathway to that outcome, which is

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Speaker 3: to say that the final text included a reference back

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Speaker 3: to countries implementing NDCs, or rather Climate and Carbon cutting

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Speaker 3: pledges under the Paris Agreement that reflect the Dubai Agreement

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Speaker 3: to Transition away from fossil fuels, and then a separate

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Speaker 3: presidency initiative where over the next year there will be

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Speaker 3: work by the Brazilian COP thirty presidency to address road

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Speaker 3: maps on forestation and on fossil fuels.

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Speaker 1: It is often said that what happens at cops because

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Speaker 1: they are run by consensus and all parties have to agree,

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Speaker 1: all countries have to agree, what we get is the

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Speaker 1: lowest common denominator of what everybody can agree on. And

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Speaker 1: it did feel like, you know, this roadmap to transition

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Speaker 1: away from fossil fuels came quite last minute for how

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Speaker 1: things happened. You know, a prior example I would have

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Speaker 1: is maybe COP twenty six, where the UK presidency was

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Speaker 1: very keen on trying to finally get a mention of

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Speaker 1: fossil fuels at a COP meeting in the final declaration

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Speaker 1: and started to talk about, you know, moving away from coal,

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Speaker 1: which the UK itself was doing a phenomenal job at,

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Speaker 1: but trying to get all the rest of the world

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Speaker 1: to agree on it, and it started to do that

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Speaker 1: like months in advance, nine months in advance, it was

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Speaker 1: getting people and getting countries to be open to the

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Speaker 1: idea of transitioning away from coal, whereas the COP thirty

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Speaker 1: presidency it felt like it was a bit too late, right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'd agree with that.

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Speaker 3: And actually your example is perfect because you know, you

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Speaker 3: did have that sex tesful inclusion of language around coal

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Speaker 3: at the COP in Glasgow, but that discussion around fossil

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Speaker 3: fuels didn't lead to a broader fossil fuel declaration or commitment.

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Speaker 3: We didn't see that for two more years until Dubai.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 3: And in the process of these cops, it does feel

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Speaker 3: very much like not only do you need to do

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Speaker 3: your homework early and try to set the stage for agreements,

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Speaker 3: which you know didn't really happen here with the roadmap,

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Speaker 3: but it also is something that can take years and

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Speaker 3: years to get this text into you know, final agreements.

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Speaker 3: You have to kind of build the support. Lula's call

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Speaker 3: surprised a lot of people, and it was two days

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Speaker 3: before the COP began. We got to a remarkable place

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Speaker 3: in two weeks, and of course the presidency is I

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Speaker 3: think hoping that they can get this to a place

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Speaker 3: where it becomes on the table for next year.

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Speaker 1: Join us after the break for more of my conversation

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Speaker 1: with Jender Louis about what happened at COP thirty and

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Speaker 1: if you're enjoying zero, write a review on Apple Podcasts

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Speaker 1: and Spotify. Recently, a listener with an unpronounceable name wrote,

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Speaker 1: these podcasts regularly lift my mood on climate change challenges, clever, fun, hopeful,

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Speaker 1: but also pragmatic. Thank you, dear listener. You typically in

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Speaker 1: the very last moments of the cop require the big powers.

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Speaker 1: I've been there in the past four cops on the

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Speaker 1: very last day, and I've always seen like the US

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Speaker 1: negotiator meeting with the EU negotiator, and then India hurdling

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Speaker 1: with other lease developed countries, or Saudi Arabia coming in

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Speaker 1: having agree words with the EU negotiator. What was the

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Speaker 1: scene like in the last last hours of Cop thirty?

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Speaker 3: In the very final hours the actual plenary, we actually

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Speaker 3: had fewer huddles than I think I've seen in the

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Speaker 3: five years I've been covering cops, mostly because the outcome

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Speaker 3: at that point had been kind of pre negotiated. Around

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Speaker 3: six am, seven am, and that final plenary was about

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Speaker 3: four or five hours later. But you know, you couldn't

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Speaker 3: escape the absence of some big folks. You didn't have

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Speaker 3: the US there. Obviously, President Donald Trump has made no

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Speaker 3: secret of his disdain not only for the notion of

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Speaker 3: climate change, but the whole apparatus for combating it. He

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Speaker 3: calls it a scam, a great hoax, you know, And

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Speaker 3: he didn't send anybody down to this conference, not even

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Speaker 3: the lowliest of negotiators, and so that was pervasive. You

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Speaker 3: felt that in the room, the lack of the US.

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Speaker 3: After the US has in the past worked with the

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Speaker 3: EU and with China to forge not only the Paris

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Speaker 3: Agreement but some other landmarks along the way.

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Speaker 1: But some saw that as a relief. Given what the

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Speaker 1: US had just done a month ago at the International

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Speaker 1: Maritime Organization by throwing its weight around to try and

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Speaker 1: delay this vote on a global contact on shipping, the

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Speaker 1: absence of the US in this case seemed like a blessing.

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Speaker 3: No, you absolutely had that sense from some delegates, some

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Speaker 3: of the US officials that came to the conference to

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Speaker 3: kind of show, you know, we're all still in it

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Speaker 3: in America. They said the same thing that you know,

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Speaker 3: we're embarrassed that the US government isn't here, but it's

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Speaker 3: probably a good thing given the way things went down

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Speaker 3: at the IMO and given the president's commitment to kind

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Speaker 3: of tearing down some of these institutions.

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Speaker 1: But this absence of the US not being around to

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Speaker 1: actually push China to be more ambitious kind of played out, right,

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Speaker 1: you know, there was this hope that with the US gone,

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Speaker 1: there's this void in leadership that's been created. You know,

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Speaker 1: EU would typically come into it, but this time the

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Speaker 1: EU has a bunch of far right parties that are

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Speaker 1: rising across its governments. They had to fight last minute

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Speaker 1: before COPP to actually get their climate plan approved that

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Speaker 1: it's not the EU, is that it's China that's going

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Speaker 1: to rise up to the leadership rule. But that also

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Speaker 1: didn't happen, right.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it was kind of remarkable because we did have

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Speaker 3: those expectations going in. To be sure, we saw the

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Speaker 3: EU kind of push on mitigation, but you didn't have

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Speaker 3: what a lot of folks were predicting, which was the

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Speaker 3: EU working with China in the way that the US

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Speaker 3: used to work with China to create pathways to deals

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Speaker 3: at this COP. So not only was the EU kind

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Speaker 3: of not really stepping up in a big broad way

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Speaker 3: in the absence.

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Speaker 2: Of the US.

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Speaker 3: China also kind of kept its head low. I mean,

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Speaker 3: they had this very splashy pavilion, you couldn't miss it.

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Speaker 3: At the entrance to the COP they handed out you know,

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Speaker 3: pandas and like panda ear headbands that were really a

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Speaker 3: hot ticket for some of the delegates based on what

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Speaker 3: I could see of the clamor to get them in

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Speaker 3: the mornings, you know, and they mounted really engaging and

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Speaker 3: well attended dialogues and forums on the sidelines of COP,

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Speaker 3: but in the COP negotiating rooms they had a lower profile.

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Speaker 3: And you know, I think that reflects the concern really

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Speaker 3: with trade measures, with Donald Trump's tariffs with you know,

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Speaker 3: some of the things that they see as barriers to

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Speaker 3: clean energy trade, to the sale and export of the

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Speaker 3: wind turbines, the solar panels, the battery tech, the evs

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Speaker 3: that they are producing in such a large number, and

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Speaker 3: so that seemed to be a higher priority for them

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Speaker 3: than actually stepping up in a very big and visible

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Speaker 3: way to land a bigger deal.

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Speaker 1: The other thing that people were looking out for in

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Speaker 1: this COP was the presence of protesters. It is something

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Speaker 1: that typically climate conferences have plenty of but we just

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Speaker 1: have been to have three conferences prior to this one

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Speaker 1: in authoritarian regimes and protests were really far to come by.

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Speaker 1: The last big protests had happened in Glasgow in the UK.

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Speaker 1: This time around, there were huge protests. You saw many

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Speaker 1: of them inside the blue zone, which was a rare

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Speaker 1: treat for us as climate reporters. How much difference do

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Speaker 1: you think the protesters meet.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I'd say we do normally see protest inside the

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Speaker 3: blue zone, but they're in these smaller areas they have

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Speaker 3: to adhere to, you know, rules of decorum that are

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Speaker 3: established by the UN and this body. And what you

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Speaker 3: saw at this cop was was, you know, just a

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Speaker 3: flow of protesters through the city at the cop venue

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Speaker 3: outside and indeed in the blue zone, and you just

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Speaker 3: couldn't escape it.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 3: I wasn't outside in the streets the day the big

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Speaker 3: march happened through the city of blem but I couldn't

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Speaker 3: escape it. I heard it before I left my hotel

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Speaker 3: room in the morning. I heard it at the site.

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Speaker 3: Those calls for action were played on videos inside the facility.

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Speaker 3: You just couldn't escape it. And I would just say

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Speaker 3: that you know, it was everywhere, and it was a

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Speaker 3: visible reminder of kind of the human element of this

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Speaker 3: in a way that we, really, like you said, have

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Speaker 3: not seen at the most recent cops, indigenous people's, religious activists,

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Speaker 3: you know, any assortment of people who care. You know,

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Speaker 3: they were among the tens of thousands that took to

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Speaker 3: the streets to kind of push this roadmap idea and

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Speaker 3: help add fuel to that effort. And then you also

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Speaker 3: just had Indigenous people walking through the venue and joining

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Speaker 3: some of this activism. At one point they were activists

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Speaker 3: to storm the venue site one evening, and that also

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Speaker 3: brought it home right that this was a cop in

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Speaker 3: the Amazon in the presence of Indigenous people who bear

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Speaker 3: a lot of the weight of climate change that they

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Speaker 3: had no role in creating.

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Speaker 1: And we saw this passion from the protests, one because

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Speaker 1: they were allowed to protest, which is great, but also

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Speaker 1: because there is this frustration with cops and it kind

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Speaker 1: of came to a boil by saying, this gap continues

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Speaker 1: to be huge between where we need to go and

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Speaker 1: where we are going, and cops talk a lot, which

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Speaker 1: is necessary, but they don't do very much. And so

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Speaker 1: for the past few years we've been hearing this idea

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Speaker 1: that cops should become implementation cops, and under Korea the Lago.

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Speaker 1: The COP president was also keen on it. You know,

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Speaker 1: just days before the COP began, when I got a

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Speaker 1: chance to interview him, Sapolo that he would like to

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Speaker 1: make this an implementation COP. Did that happen?

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Speaker 3: I think you can say that this was the first

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Speaker 3: real implementation COP, even though it falls well short of

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Speaker 3: course of what needs to be done. But you know,

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Speaker 3: the the nuts and bolts of implementing the Paris Agreements,

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Speaker 3: Marquee Promise, as well as everything that's come from it,

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Speaker 3: we're discussed in deeper ways than I've certainly seen in

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Speaker 3: five years of covering cops. You had a lot more

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Speaker 3: attention to what the Brazilian presidency called the Action Agenda,

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Speaker 3: which really is about taking these diplomatic words and turning

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Speaker 3: them into action on the ground. You know, it felt

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Speaker 3: much more real and much more tangible. It is still

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Speaker 3: a place forum for discussion at the highest levels for

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Speaker 3: climate diplomacy, and yet you did see this substance of

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Speaker 3: work and discussion around you know, really making these changes

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Speaker 3: that need to happen on the ground.

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Speaker 1: Cops happen every year, and you know, sometimes what happened

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Speaker 1: at one cop can kind of bleed into the other one.

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Speaker 1: Was it twenty seven? Was it twenty nine? Save from

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Speaker 1: five years now, you're covering Cop thirty five. What is

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Speaker 1: Cop thirty going to be remembered for.

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Speaker 2: I think Cop thirty will be remembered.

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Speaker 3: Oh I hate to say it, but as much, if

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Speaker 3: not more, for where it happens, for this rainforest setting,

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Speaker 3: you know, for being in Brazil in a challenging but

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Speaker 3: very real location than the actual deliverables then the actual

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Speaker 3: Muterrau decision. I don't want to tell the Brazilian presidency that,

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Speaker 3: but maybe actually that's That's exactly what President Lula.

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Speaker 2: Wanted, right.

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Speaker 3: He wanted to draw attention to the Amazon, to the rainforest,

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Speaker 3: to the lungs of the world. And I suppose in

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Speaker 3: that Cop thirty was a success and actuat if you're

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Speaker 3: judging COP thirty five years from now, what are you

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Speaker 3: going to think about?

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Speaker 1: Well, I missed the very end of COP so you know,

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Speaker 1: I missed the fire, I missed the tension, But I

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00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:15,160
Speaker 1: will remember it for the atmospherics too. I mean, I've

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Speaker 1: never been close to a rainforest and experiencing that daily

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Speaker 1: deluge that happened in the afternoon was stunning to me.

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Speaker 1: But substantially, I think Cop thirty made me really reflect

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Speaker 1: on what is the value of COP. You know, we're

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Speaker 1: going into the tenth anniversary of the Paris Agreement, and

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Speaker 1: the conversations were getting harder to have about what is

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Speaker 1: this process delivering on the outcomes? And if, as Andre

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00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:49,040
Speaker 1: told us, if we do not remember this COP for

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00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:53,479
Speaker 1: making any difference to that trajectory, that would be the

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Speaker 1: real failure of this COP. But before we end the show,

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Speaker 1: we do have to talk about the next COP, because

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Speaker 1: there will be one next year and the year after.

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Speaker 1: And in typical fashion, you know, countries kind of know

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Speaker 1: that they're going to host the COP. They convinced the

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Speaker 1: other people in their membership group to let them do this.

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Speaker 1: But for next year's COP, there was an actual fight

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Speaker 1: happening here in Cop thirty.

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Speaker 2: That's absolutely right.

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Speaker 3: It was a fight that actually caught a lot of

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Speaker 3: attention over the course of the two weeks. So, you know,

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Speaker 3: you have the substance of the COP where everyone's deliberating

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Speaker 3: over the important you know, language around climate mitigation, but

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Speaker 3: you had this other almost side show you know that

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Speaker 3: unfolded over the course of about a week and a

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Speaker 3: half where Turkey was essentially challenging what had for a

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Speaker 3: while been perceived as Australia's bid to win the COP

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Speaker 3: presidency next year. Ultimately, you know, it came down to,

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Speaker 3: as so many of these things in COP do, a compromise,

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Speaker 3: but quite an unusual one where Turkey and Talia. Turkey

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Speaker 3: will end up being the physical host of next year's

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Speaker 3: COP thirty one and Australia will serve as president for

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Speaker 3: purposes of negotiations, you know, leading the agenda, working on text,

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Speaker 3: really working to land some kind of outcome. It's an

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Speaker 3: unusual split. We'll see how it plays out, but it's

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Speaker 3: a reminder that nothing at COPS is easy, even picking

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Speaker 3: where they should be.

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Speaker 2: Well.

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Speaker 1: Luckily, if you do know that COP thirty two, which

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Speaker 1: is a year after, will be in Ethiopia in Addis Ababa,

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Speaker 1: and they were confirmed too at this COP, so at

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Speaker 1: least we are not looking at another fight for the

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Speaker 1: next Cup. Jen, it's always a pleasure to talk to you,

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Speaker 1: always a pleasure to cover COPS with you, and I

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Speaker 1: look forward to covering the next.

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Speaker 2: COUP absolutely thanks at shat.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to zero. Find all of Bloomberg

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Speaker 1: Green's coverage from Cop thirty at Bloomberg dot com, Forward

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Speaker 1: slash Green. If you liked this episode, please take a

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00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:57,160
Speaker 1: moment to rate and review the show on Apple Podcasts

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Speaker 1: and Spotify. This episode was produced by Oscar Our. Theme

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00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:04,280
Speaker 1: music is composed by Wonderly Special. Thanks to the Cop

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Speaker 1: thirty team Amanda Hurley, Simon Casey, John Ainger, Gendiluis Fabiano

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00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:15,560
Speaker 1: maisanab Daniel Carvallo, Vanessa Desim and Diani Susa. Thanks also

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00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:20,280
Speaker 1: to Anamazarakis, Samersadi, Moses Andem, Laura Milan, and Sharon chan

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Speaker 1: I am Akshatrati. Back soon,