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Speaker 1: Hi, guys, Nancy Grace here, Welcome back to Killers amongst Us,

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Speaker 1: a production of iHeartMedia and Crime Online. The disappearance of

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Speaker 1: a beautiful young barista, Samantha Koneg joining us to help

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Speaker 1: crack the case. Investigative reporter Casey Grow from Alaska and

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Speaker 1: FBI special agent Bobby Chicone who's actually in on the

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Speaker 1: FBI investigation to analyze the clues left behind. Cheryl McCullum,

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Speaker 1: director of the Cold Case Research Institute, and doctor Bethany Marshall,

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Speaker 1: renowned La psychoanalysts. As you know by now, we learned

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Speaker 1: Samantha's kidnap was caught on camera and the critical role

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Speaker 1: that surveillance tape played in the ongoing investigation. In sub

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Speaker 1: zero temperatures, we take a look at all the suspects

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Speaker 1: of the red herring is emerging in the hours and

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Speaker 1: days after she goes missing, and then when it seems

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Speaker 1: as if police and detectives were hitting a wall, a

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Speaker 1: ransom note emerges. Investigators on the hunt for Samantha and

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Speaker 1: her abductor. You can see the individual jumping in through

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Speaker 1: the window. You can tell she's sort of going along

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Speaker 1: with them because he thinks that he's going to rob

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Speaker 1: the place. It just didn't come across to her that

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Speaker 1: she was in danger until he starts locking her out

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Speaker 1: of Nancy Grace killers amongst us. Across the city of Anchorage,

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Speaker 1: police and volunteers are braving subfreezing temperatures in an all

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Speaker 1: out search for eighteen year old Samantha Konick. The longer

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Speaker 1: we go without knowing where Samantha is, the more difficult

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Speaker 1: the case becomes. Police know nothing about her whereabouts, but

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Speaker 1: they have one terrifying clue. She was last seen on

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Speaker 1: her surveillance camera being marched away from work by an

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Speaker 1: armed man. They left on foot. We know that much

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Speaker 1: beyond that, her disappearance became a complete mystery at that point.

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Speaker 1: It happened here at this drive up coffee stand where

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Speaker 1: Samantha worked. When her boyfriend arrived Wednesday night, she was gone.

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Speaker 1: When I got off work, I wanted to go get him,

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Speaker 1: get her, and she wasn't there was It was a mess.

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Speaker 1: Her father's been frantically searching for her ever since. Investigators

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Speaker 1: are not yet releasing the surveillance tape, they will only

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Speaker 1: say the abductor was wearing a dark hooded sweatshirt and

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Speaker 1: possibly a baseball cap hampering the investigation. This is Alaska

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Speaker 1: in the dead middle of winter. The snow piled up

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Speaker 1: blocked motorists from seeing the coffee shop from the road.

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Speaker 1: An interesting footnote here, the missing eighteen year old filed

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Speaker 1: a restraining order against a man in November, but never

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Speaker 1: followed through with core proceedings. At least up there maybe

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Speaker 1: more surveillance videos from maybe other businesses in the area

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Speaker 1: that might lead to some extra clues. In a very

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Speaker 1: extra harsh Alaska winter, what happened to Samantha Koenig? Her

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Speaker 1: father who doated on his young daughter is beside himself

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Speaker 1: as the community pulls together, look king for Samantha. Cheryl McCollum,

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Speaker 1: director of the Coal Case Research Institute, How many times

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Speaker 1: did I argue to a jury? What do you want

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Speaker 1: a video of the crime? I don't have a video.

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Speaker 1: You have to put two and two together and come

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Speaker 1: up with four. But in this case, we have a video,

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Speaker 1: but it's telling me nothing. Cheryl. It's a money tree.

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Speaker 1: We don't ever get video, and if we do, it's

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Speaker 1: grainy or it's just outside the parameter of what you

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Speaker 1: can really see. It doesn't give you much here, not

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Speaker 1: only do we have video. It's from the inside, and Nancy,

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Speaker 1: you can tell us an awful on. Let me go

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Speaker 1: to doctor Bethany Marshall, renowned California psycho analystic, joining me

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Speaker 1: today along with reporter from Alaska Public Media Casey Grove,

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Speaker 1: John Lemley, Crime Online dot Com investigative reporter and special

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Speaker 1: guest FBI special Agent Bobby Chicon at Bobby Chicone dot com. Dodger.

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Speaker 1: Bethany One really stuck out in my mind when the

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Speaker 1: reporter said she marched. Now, that tells me that this

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Speaker 1: is someone she fears. This is someone that she's not

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Speaker 1: struggling because she knows he's not going to shoot her

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Speaker 1: with that gun. She says, the gun, she sees the

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Speaker 1: disguise and she marches. What eighteen year old does that?

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Speaker 1: I mean, because all they know at this point in

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Speaker 1: their life is friendship and fun and family. I can

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Speaker 1: see that she is absolutely terrified. I can only imagine

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Speaker 1: what is going through her mind. And I wonder if

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Speaker 1: she has been told that if she struggles, she'll die,

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Speaker 1: and so she is in some dissociated state of shock

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Speaker 1: where she's complying with the perpetrator, trying to think as

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Speaker 1: fast as she can, but just doing whatever he asks

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Speaker 1: her to do. But what more can we learn from

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Speaker 1: the video? What sex can we glean? Listen? As daybreak

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Speaker 1: so for Anchorage, Samantha's dad calls the local police to

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Speaker 1: report his only daughter missing. One of our officers contacted

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Speaker 1: the owner of common Grounds Coffee shot and she was

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Speaker 1: able to show them video. A man came to the

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Speaker 1: little kiosk window at eight o'clock. Samantha made a coffee

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Speaker 1: drink for him, turned back around, and then you can

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Speaker 1: tell she's shocked. You see her body language change. She

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Speaker 1: goes from someone who's just serving someone a coffee to

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Speaker 1: being very nervous and very concerned. Samantha turns out the

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Speaker 1: lights and you can see the individual jumping in through

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Speaker 1: the window. You can tell she's sort of going along

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Speaker 1: with them because he thinks that he's going to rob

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Speaker 1: the place. It just didn't come across to her that

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Speaker 1: she was in danger until he starts walking her out

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Speaker 1: of the Samantha the individual leave the coffee stand and

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Speaker 1: then disappear from the line of sight from the camera.

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Speaker 1: The next day, her dad was raising hell about this,

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Speaker 1: trying to figure out where his daughter went. Used this

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Speaker 1: area as a meeting place because this is where my

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Speaker 1: daughter was taken from. People were just literally like, whose

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Speaker 1: basement is she in? Whose door do we have to

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Speaker 1: go knock down to find her? There wasn't any narrative

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Speaker 1: for people to understand what happened. Very upsetting. We knew

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Speaker 1: she had to be here somewhere. We had people who

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Speaker 1: were donating money, thousands of dollars. We had t shirts made,

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Speaker 1: pens made, We had people who were putting flyers throughout

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Speaker 1: the state of Alaska. These people need to give my

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Speaker 1: daughter back so we can get back with our lives.

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Speaker 1: I will do anything. Take me from our friends at Oxygen.

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Speaker 1: Method of a Serial Killer out to John Liley, Crime

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Speaker 1: online dot Com investigative reporter. What do we learn from

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Speaker 1: the video? Well, in the video, Nancy, you can see

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Speaker 1: that someone approaches from a distance, A dark figure approaches

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Speaker 1: that little kiosk, that little coffee shop. It's around eight

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Speaker 1: pm the timestamp. Samantha makes him a coffee drink, which

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Speaker 1: is very normal. She turns back around and it's at

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Speaker 1: this point you can tell that she is really surprised

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Speaker 1: by something. Her body language stiffens. She goes from a

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Speaker 1: barista to someone who is obviously very nervous and concerned.

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Speaker 1: She backs up, She even puts her hands up. Then

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Speaker 1: she very quickly goes across the room and turns out

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Speaker 1: all the lights. And it's at this point you can

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Speaker 1: see a dark figure comes in through that little window.

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Speaker 1: You can tell that she seems to be going along

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Speaker 1: with what the person is asking her to do. She's

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Speaker 1: most likely just trying to do whatever is necessary to

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Speaker 1: get through this. However, she most likely became really frightened

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Speaker 1: when he begins walking her out of that little shop.

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Speaker 1: Samantha and the individual leave the coffee shop, and then

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Speaker 1: the last thing you see is the two of them

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Speaker 1: disappearing out of the line of sight of that surveillance camera.

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Speaker 1: Cheryl mccolluman, director of the Coal Case Research Institute. Something

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Speaker 1: is just sticking in my mind, and that's that half

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Speaker 1: made Americano coffee. I don't know why that's sticking in

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Speaker 1: my mind. Something about it is poignant. But what am

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Speaker 1: I learning? I'm learning that he comes up and he

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Speaker 1: asked for a coffee. She's making that, but didn't she

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Speaker 1: notice anything was wrong when he was hiding himself in

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Speaker 1: that manner? I mean, what led her to go along?

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Speaker 1: With it to a certain point. What's your analysis of

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Speaker 1: what you see in the video, Cheryl McCallum. The first

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Speaker 1: thing that strikes me is he walks up. He doesn't

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Speaker 1: drive up. Second thing, she does not greet him. So

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Speaker 1: if this was somebody she sees every Wednesday, she would smile,

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Speaker 1: she would acknowledge that she recognizes this person. She doesn't

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Speaker 1: do that. He hands her a cup. That's the third thing.

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Speaker 1: So he takes something with him to get her to

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Speaker 1: do something. Wrote she takes the offe, she immediately turns

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Speaker 1: her back to start making the cup. I think that's

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Speaker 1: when his action plan is put into place. When she

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Speaker 1: turns around, he's got a weapon and at that moment

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Speaker 1: he's telling her shut the light out, because Zancy, there's

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Speaker 1: no way an eighteen year old frightened is going to

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Speaker 1: cut the light out. She does that to hide his features.

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Speaker 1: So he has planned this thing pretty smoothly so far,

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Speaker 1: Doctor Bethany Marshall. In a case like this, with a

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Speaker 1: girl's life on the line, you have to look at

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Speaker 1: every suspect, including boyfriends, past boyfriend's, current stalkers. People that

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Speaker 1: come into the come to the coffee shop on a

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Speaker 1: regular basis, but you can't get away from the fact

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Speaker 1: that this is a goal mine of evidence. This video,

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Speaker 1: Samantha disappears into the night and all we have is

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Speaker 1: this grainy image of her being marched out late at night.

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Speaker 1: What do you see, Well, I see what Cheryl McCollum

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Speaker 1: sees in that she greets him normally, as if he

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Speaker 1: were any other customer. She acts like an eighteen year

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Speaker 1: old wood She calmly goes about her job. She starts

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Speaker 1: making a coffee. This tells me that she does not

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Speaker 1: know him. You know, most homicides are intimate homicides, right,

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Speaker 1: We know that an abductions are intimate abductions. Strange abductions

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Speaker 1: are really rare. But when you watch this surveillance tape,

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Speaker 1: she did not know this guy, Nancy. And again, she's

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Speaker 1: eighteen years old, she's young, she's naive. There is a

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Speaker 1: moment of shock when she throws up her hands, she

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Speaker 1: backs up against the counter, and you can see that

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Speaker 1: she is disoriented and she has no idea what's going on.

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Speaker 1: And it brings to mind at the definition of trauma

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Speaker 1: in my field, trauma is when there is a sudden,

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Speaker 1: unexpected event, for there is no prior learning so something

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Speaker 1: happens to a person and they have absolutely no idea

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Speaker 1: what to do. She has no idea what to do

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Speaker 1: other than to try to protect, defend, and get as

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Speaker 1: far away from the sky as possible with me right now,

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Speaker 1: FBI special Agent Bobby to come. Bobby, just looking at

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Speaker 1: the video, which is extremely rare when someone just disappears.

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Speaker 1: It must be breaking the father's heart to look at

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Speaker 1: this video and see the images of his daughter, possibly

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Speaker 1: the very last images of his daughter in life. Absolutely,

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Speaker 1: I mean, obviously that's what's probably going to his head.

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Speaker 1: At this point, She's gone, who is this person at

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Speaker 1: this window that's causing his daughter so much fear and

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Speaker 1: so much apprehension that she immediately puts her hands up

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Speaker 1: and steps back, steps back away from the window. Tells

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Speaker 1: me as an investigator that he probably was brandish a

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Speaker 1: weapon of some kind, because to instill that kind of

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Speaker 1: fear so quickly and to garner that kind of reaction

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Speaker 1: so quickly, I mean she saw something physically that made

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Speaker 1: her step back. Just a verbal threat from somebody through

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Speaker 1: a small window like that would not cause that. It

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Speaker 1: would tell me that he was probabishly branding a weapon.

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Speaker 1: She saw the weapon and she immediately stepped back and

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Speaker 1: put her hands up. And so as a father looking

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Speaker 1: at that, you know there can't be any more concerned

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Speaker 1: that would make you cause it. I mean, you would

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Speaker 1: look at this and say, my daughter's in danger. When

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Speaker 1: you get a video like this, train professionals come over

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Speaker 1: every detail. What more do we learn? Just a few

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Speaker 1: days into the search, police discover a promising lead new

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Speaker 1: surveillance footage captured by a neighboring business from the night

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Speaker 1: of Samantha's abduction. We're able to determine that Samantha walked

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Speaker 1: to a white pickup truck and then the truck drives away.

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Speaker 1: They could estimate about the year that it was built.

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Speaker 1: It was like a ninety nine through two thousand and

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Speaker 1: seven Chevrolet pickup truck. So at that point it's a

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Speaker 1: matter of trying to track found how many of those

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Speaker 1: vehicles are in the Anchorage Bowl and there were several

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Speaker 1: thousand of them that from our friends at auction method

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Speaker 1: of a serial killer. So now we're learning that video

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Speaker 1: surveillance in the area is picking up more data, more evidence.

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Speaker 1: How does that work? Cheryl McCullum Nancy, They're gonna look

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Speaker 1: for tire tracks, foot prints in the snow. Then again

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Speaker 1: the looking for that particular vehicle where there's a thousand

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Speaker 1: other in the general vicinity. You're talked about a painstaking

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Speaker 1: You know, he's got a work budo, We'll how does

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Speaker 1: everybody else in Alaska? He's got a white truck? Well,

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Speaker 1: how does everybody else in Alaska? So this is the

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Speaker 1: kind of thing they've got to weed out the evidence

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Speaker 1: that they do have. But you know, this guy has

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Speaker 1: obviously put some thought into what I'm gonna wear, what

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna drive them? I gonna walk up? Am I

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Speaker 1: gonna drive up? So law enforcement had to go through

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Speaker 1: an eliminated, quite frankly obvious elements that just put them

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Speaker 1: behind the eight ball looking for who this person is.

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Speaker 1: Back to John Limley, Crime online dot Com investigative reporter

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Speaker 1: John Limley again in a nutshell, What was he wearing?

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Speaker 1: What was his disguise? He is wearing a ski mask

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Speaker 1: and is in all black. I guess the fact Bobby

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Speaker 1: Chican FBI that he was wearing a ski mask. In

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Speaker 1: most places that would send up a red flag of alarm.

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Speaker 1: But in Alaska at night, when you're surrounded by you know,

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Speaker 1: twelve fifteen foot snowdrifts. I guess somebody wearing a ski

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Speaker 1: mask may not have disturbed her, that's right. And you

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Speaker 1: don't see a disturbance in her initially in the first

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Speaker 1: few minutes, so a person wearing a ski mask coming

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Speaker 1: up to the kiosk was probably not uncommon, and so

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Speaker 1: she doesn't react to his initial appearance. How he looked

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Speaker 1: wearing a hood and wearing a mask in that weather

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Speaker 1: is probably totally appropriate. It's only a few minutes into

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Speaker 1: the video that you see a dramatic change in her posture,

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Speaker 1: and that would lead me to believe it. At that

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Speaker 1: point he brandished a weapon through that small window. And oh,

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Speaker 1: during this her dad going bizarre, out of his mind,

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Speaker 1: out of fear. I want to ask for her captors,

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Speaker 1: if they would please send my daughter home. I will

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Speaker 1: give you anything in this world. Call me anonymously, if

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Speaker 1: you don't have to go through the police, I will

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Speaker 1: meet you. I will give you whatever you want. Just

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Speaker 1: please bring my daughter back. I just need her home.

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Speaker 1: Every day she's gone, we're the odds are against us,

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Speaker 1: and I need the whole community to come together and

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Speaker 1: find my daughter. Go door to door every neighborhood and

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Speaker 1: anything suspicious, no matter how small you think it is,

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Speaker 1: call the police, call me. I will investigate it. Just

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Speaker 1: please help find my daughter. Not good. I don't think

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Speaker 1: any of us are holding up in this. I don't

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Speaker 1: know if my daughter's being fed, taken care of, if

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Speaker 1: she's still alive, if she's getting any sleep. I don't

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Speaker 1: think any of us are. That is Samantha's father, James

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Speaker 1: Koenick speaking out and just hearing his voice, doctor Bethany.

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Speaker 1: You know every morning when I take the children to school,

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Speaker 1: I say a prayer, please keep the twins safe from

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Speaker 1: everything dangerous, evil, naughty or hurtful, which is a lot.

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Speaker 1: And that is me just dropping them at school. Here

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Speaker 1: as a dad, his daughter lives with him. She's the

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Speaker 1: apple of his eye, his heart, his air, and his

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Speaker 1: music everything. What can he do? Nothing? How many times

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Speaker 1: do you think he went over and over and over

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Speaker 1: are this video, doctor Bethany, Nancy. He has agonized over it,

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Speaker 1: and one sentence he utters stands out to me, I

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Speaker 1: don't know if she's getting any sleep. And then I

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Speaker 1: don't know if she's dead or alive. And when he says,

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Speaker 1: I don't know if she's getting any sleep. It's reminiscent

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Speaker 1: to me that she was once his baby. I mean,

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Speaker 1: her whole existence depended on him. He's still thinking about

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Speaker 1: her basic needs. Is she's sleeping, is she eating? Is

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Speaker 1: somebody taking care of him? So he's thinking about all

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Speaker 1: the more benign considerations, like her basics needs met, and

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Speaker 1: then he flips to is she dead or alive? It's

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Speaker 1: like his mind is vacillating back and forth between her

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Speaker 1: primary needs and then life and death. What a horrific,

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Speaker 1: shattering experience for a parent. Oh, I can't even imagine.

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Speaker 1: You know what I get, Cheryl. You've been with me

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Speaker 1: through many, many felony trials. When I get in that

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Speaker 1: spot and I'm thinking about the pain and the suffering

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Speaker 1: and the anxiety, the only thing I can do to

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Speaker 1: work through that is to go back to the facts

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Speaker 1: and go over and over and over, kind of like

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Speaker 1: a robot. So at this juncture, a guy comes up.

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Speaker 1: He's wearing a ski mask, he's all in black. But

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Speaker 1: come on, I remember this a trial, and I think

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Speaker 1: it was when I tried the red rapist. If you

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Speaker 1: remember him, he had raped women all across Atlanta, and

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Speaker 1: he had a particular m O and the ones I

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Speaker 1: couldn't get DNA for which were many. I matched up

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Speaker 1: with a modus operandi method of operation, and that was

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Speaker 1: climbing in through a window it was hot outside in Atlanta.

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Speaker 1: He would rape the person. Often he would recite Bible

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Speaker 1: verses and then he would leave, sometimes leave a red rose.

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Speaker 1: He would also wear red, hence the name red rapists.

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Speaker 1: So long story short, and some of those he would

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Speaker 1: put pantyhose over his head. And in a surprise move

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Speaker 1: on a now very well known prosecutor, Clint Rucker, who

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Speaker 1: was assisting me in the trial, I brought a pair

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Speaker 1: of pantyhose and in closing argument put them over Clint's face.

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Speaker 1: Let's just say he was not happy, but he didn't

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Speaker 1: show it in front of the jury. I couldn't want

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Speaker 1: an ahead of time because I knew you wouldn't go

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Speaker 1: along with it. Long story short, you could look right

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Speaker 1: at him and you knew it was him. The jury

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Speaker 1: been looking at him for two weeks, so they knew

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Speaker 1: it was him. So in my ladies identified the purp.

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Speaker 1: The defense would say, hey, but ye had pantyo's over

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Speaker 1: his head. I'm like, and that's all you got go ahead,

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Speaker 1: hit me with that. So here my point is a

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Speaker 1: long story to make this point, Cheryl, if this had

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Speaker 1: been her boyfriend, or an X or a regular, a

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Speaker 1: ski mask would not have hidden his identity right. She

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Speaker 1: would have known them. She would and this person clearly

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Speaker 1: he spoke to her, he told her to cut out

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Speaker 1: the light. He as soon as he jumped over the counter.

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Speaker 1: She would have recognized clothing, the stature. She would know

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Speaker 1: him by his eyes. She did not know this person,

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Speaker 1: not when he first walked up. I mean, come on, Cheryl,

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Speaker 1: might call him if you came up with a ski

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Speaker 1: mask on. I'm not gonna say how I would know

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Speaker 1: it was you, but I would know it was you.

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Speaker 1: Doctor Bethany Marshall. I don't know if you've met Bethany

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Speaker 1: in the flesh, Cheryl, but she has. Let me just say,

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Speaker 1: an hourglass figure. If there was ever an hourglass figure,

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Speaker 1: it's Bethany Marshall. So if she comes up to me

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Speaker 1: with a ski mask, I'm gonna know that's Bethany because

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Speaker 1: I know how she is shaped, I know the way

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Speaker 1: she walks. I could recognize her voice anywhere. So who

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Speaker 1: are suspect? What? Nancy? You're identifiable your eyes are very

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Speaker 1: beautiful and unique. Your voice, you're actually if you walked

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Speaker 1: up to me a chaosk and said, bail this cup

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Speaker 1: up with coffee, I would know it was you. But

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Speaker 1: she did not greet this person. There was nothing familiar

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Speaker 1: about him for her. In the studio, Jackie Howard is

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Speaker 1: mimicking the way I walks. I think she would recognize

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Speaker 1: it anywhere if I can jompnop, jump go. Well, all

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Speaker 1: of us have greeting responses. Dogs do, cats do? Humans do?

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Speaker 1: We don't just walk up to somebody without saying something.

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Speaker 1: A dog will jump all over you, a cat will

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Speaker 1: rub up against you. A human vocalizes he's Samantha, how

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Speaker 1: are you doing? How are you feeling? I just thought

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Speaker 1: to combine and say hi. All he does is comes

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Speaker 1: and orders a coffee. So that is definitely a stranger

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Speaker 1: because he doesn't greet her verbally. If he had greeted

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Speaker 1: her verbally, she would have known him and known exactly

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Speaker 1: who he was if they were already acquaintances. So who

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Speaker 1: are the suspects? Who is it? She would not know

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Speaker 1: behind a ski mask. Well, it's obvious that she has

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Speaker 1: taken away against her will, by her reactions, What indication,

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Speaker 1: if any, was there that this was someone that she

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Speaker 1: would have that she knew, you know, that there was

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Speaker 1: some in that interaction that this was someone that was

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Speaker 1: not a stranger her that she knew. You know, I

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Speaker 1: don't think that anything that we released has been characterized

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Speaker 1: like that, and I'd be really careful of that because

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Speaker 1: we don't know. We don't know one way or the

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Speaker 1: other whether she knew this person or she didn't know

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Speaker 1: this person. But if you think about it, once again,

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Speaker 1: from the perspective of what her job is, she's going

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Speaker 1: to have contact with hundreds of people a day, and she,

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Speaker 1: you know, she might know people just by recognizing they

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Speaker 1: may have stopped her copy once or twice. We don't know.

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Speaker 1: So we'll have to wait till the case because further

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Speaker 1: along before we can make any determination as to whether

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Speaker 1: there was a relationship. Does this appear to be a

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Speaker 1: crime of opportunity where someone saw her and abducted her,

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Speaker 1: or whether or not this was someone who specifically sought

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Speaker 1: to you know, knew some at knew who she was,

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Speaker 1: sought about her in particular, it could go either work

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Speaker 1: you're hearing from Lieutenant David Parker, there in Anchorage. But

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Speaker 1: what about the boyfriend? Is it just too convenient that

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Speaker 1: he shows up that night she's not there, and then

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Speaker 1: he's the one that raises the alarm? Straight to Casey Grove,

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Speaker 1: reporter with the Alaska Public Media, Casey, what about the boyfriend?

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Speaker 1: And I think early on, when she was reported missing

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Speaker 1: and people were kind of speculating about what might have happened,

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Speaker 1: I think there was some question of maybe whether or

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Speaker 1: not she had run off with her boyfriend, and pretty

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Speaker 1: quickly became apparent that the boyfriend was very worried and

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Speaker 1: not with her. And as time went on, you know,

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Speaker 1: there was kind of less speculation about his involvement, and

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Speaker 1: you know, information about the video sort of being leaked

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Speaker 1: out by the family, that there was this other abductor

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Speaker 1: that had been involved, another abductor involved. But the reality

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Speaker 1: is you always look, do you not? To Bobby Chicon,

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Speaker 1: former FBI special agent at Bobby chicon dot com, Bobby,

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Speaker 1: you always look at the husband, the boyfriend, the lover,

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Speaker 1: the x. Why Well, because in the overwhelming majority of

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Speaker 1: these types of cases, not homicides that I've worked, the

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Speaker 1: offender comes from one of two worlds. It's the world

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Speaker 1: of the location. In other words, had they hung out

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Speaker 1: at that location and someone just the victim just wandered

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Speaker 1: through that area, or it comes from the world of

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Speaker 1: the victim, so they know the victim in some way,

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Speaker 1: and that's you know, that's the offenders come from one

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Speaker 1: of those two worlds. And so you know, this is

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Speaker 1: where investigators have to play the extremely delicate balance of

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Speaker 1: looking into the boyfriend, looking into the father, looking into

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Speaker 1: friends at the same time when these people are basically

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Speaker 1: grieving or in in a terrible state of emotional the stress,

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Speaker 1: and yet you still have to treat them as persons

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Speaker 1: of interest. So the police and the investigators play a

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Speaker 1: very delicate game here because at the same time you

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Speaker 1: want to be sympathetic to their plight, you also are

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Speaker 1: still looking at them as possible suspects. It's a very

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Speaker 1: very difficult line to tell. Back to Casey Grove, reporter

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Speaker 1: with the Alaska Public Media, how did you ever dig

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Speaker 1: up the restraining order which plays a major role in

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Speaker 1: this When I think back about this case, I was

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Speaker 1: still I mean, I had a couple of years of reporting,

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Speaker 1: experienced journalism, experienced professionally under my belt, but I didn't

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Speaker 1: really know how to go about sort of reporting on

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Speaker 1: a case like this, and some of my fellow colleagues

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Speaker 1: there at the Anchorage Daily News who had more experience,

428
00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:54,000
Speaker 1: suggested that I go just start looking through any kind

429
00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:59,080
Speaker 1: of court filings whatsoever that anybody that we know, any

430
00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:03,440
Speaker 1: name that had come up so far, but definitely Samantha Konig.

431
00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:09,879
Speaker 1: And in the civil court she had filed you for

432
00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:14,439
Speaker 1: a restraining order against someone by the name of Christopher Bird,

433
00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:20,679
Speaker 1: and he she had filed for this restraining order and

434
00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:24,359
Speaker 1: written a lot of information in the application for this

435
00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:28,919
Speaker 1: restraining order, and I believe got maybe a temporary version

436
00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:33,000
Speaker 1: of that that didn't involve her having to testify, because

437
00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:35,360
Speaker 1: if I remember correctly, I don't think that she came

438
00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:39,920
Speaker 1: back to testify and get the sort of the stronger

439
00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:44,159
Speaker 1: long term protective order. But there was this information in

440
00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:49,600
Speaker 1: this filing that indicated that some kind of at least

441
00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:51,880
Speaker 1: according to her, at least some kind of a sexual

442
00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:55,640
Speaker 1: assault or some kind of encounter along those lines had

443
00:26:55,680 --> 00:27:00,760
Speaker 1: happened between Christopher Bird and Samantha Konig just a month

444
00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:05,080
Speaker 1: or two prior to her disappearance. Oh my stars, Okay,

445
00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:08,639
Speaker 1: talk about a coincidence. In my book, there is no

446
00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:14,480
Speaker 1: coincidence in criminal law. To Bobby Chicomb FBI, she takes

447
00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:18,479
Speaker 1: out of restraining order on a guy that allegedly commits

448
00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:21,679
Speaker 1: a sex crime on her, or tries to anyway, and

449
00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:26,919
Speaker 1: then suddenly she goes missing as this winds its way

450
00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:30,000
Speaker 1: toward court potentially, right, I mean, this will be a

451
00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:32,040
Speaker 1: first what you would consider as an invest to give

452
00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:34,840
Speaker 1: your first big break, your first big lead. That she

453
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:39,000
Speaker 1: had an adversary relationship with a man who she felt

454
00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:41,440
Speaker 1: threatened her enough that she filed this kind of paperwork.

455
00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:46,280
Speaker 1: So obviously, once this was discovered, all a lot of

456
00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:51,399
Speaker 1: effort would be put into finding this person. I mean, really, Bobby,

457
00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:53,840
Speaker 1: I mean a t r Oh, you have to go

458
00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:57,919
Speaker 1: to court, Cheryl McCollum and beg the court to protect you. Right, Well,

459
00:27:57,920 --> 00:27:59,800
Speaker 1: it sounds like what she did is she went in

460
00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:04,680
Speaker 1: the initial temporary protectible order, which didn't make her testify,

461
00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:07,200
Speaker 1: she didn't have to go through that part, But when

462
00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:09,280
Speaker 1: it got closer to that, she didn't follow up for

463
00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:13,760
Speaker 1: whatever reason. But there's no question in a case like

464
00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:16,440
Speaker 1: this you would put all you've got on this guy

465
00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:19,760
Speaker 1: until you can rule him out. I mean, how many

466
00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:23,120
Speaker 1: case I can't even count them. Where women go forward

467
00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:26,320
Speaker 1: to start with in a battery or assault and then

468
00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:30,280
Speaker 1: as it gets closer and closer and closer, they back out.

469
00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:33,879
Speaker 1: I've had a woman, doctor Bethany Marshall, California. It's like, oh, well,

470
00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:36,639
Speaker 1: let's come into court with a broken leg and a

471
00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:40,880
Speaker 1: cast from the hip down and crutches with her boyfriend

472
00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:44,520
Speaker 1: trying to drop charges. Of course I did not drop them.

473
00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:48,240
Speaker 1: I said, blame me, not her, But I mean anything

474
00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:50,640
Speaker 1: could have affected her decision not to drop charges. She

475
00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:53,480
Speaker 1: could have been afraid of the guy. Well, Nancy, first

476
00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:57,320
Speaker 1: of all, remember again she is eighteen years old, Samantha,

477
00:28:57,560 --> 00:28:59,440
Speaker 1: So this is just a month or two prior to

478
00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:02,880
Speaker 1: the abduct and she goes to court. What eighteen year

479
00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:06,040
Speaker 1: old has the wherewithal to go to court to file

480
00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:09,400
Speaker 1: a tro against somebody? And then, not only that, she

481
00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:12,719
Speaker 1: is frightened enough of whoever this perpetrator is, that she

482
00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:14,960
Speaker 1: doesn't even want to face him. She wants to file

483
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:17,440
Speaker 1: the version where you don't have to go to court.

484
00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:20,360
Speaker 1: A lot of women don't want to face their perpetrators.

485
00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:22,800
Speaker 1: Sometimes they feel guilty, they're afraid that they're going to

486
00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:25,600
Speaker 1: get their boyfriend or whoever it is in trouble, they're

487
00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:30,440
Speaker 1: afraid of repercussions. But in this case, fancy, whatever this

488
00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:33,520
Speaker 1: assault was at the hands of this purp may have

489
00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:35,520
Speaker 1: been so bad she didn't even want to see him

490
00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:38,960
Speaker 1: in the halls of hallways of the court. Casey Grove,

491
00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:43,000
Speaker 1: reporter with the Alaska Public Media. I mean, how can

492
00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:46,000
Speaker 1: that be a coincidence that a few weeks before she

493
00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:51,640
Speaker 1: disappears into thin air, she's filing for protection after an

494
00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:54,160
Speaker 1: alleged sex is sought by this guy. You know, you

495
00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:57,840
Speaker 1: got to remember, the tension and anchorage is just ratcheted

496
00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:02,360
Speaker 1: way up because people think maybe she's still alive. There's

497
00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:05,440
Speaker 1: this reward fund to just try to you know, get

498
00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:09,120
Speaker 1: information to try to find her. And then you know,

499
00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:12,240
Speaker 1: it comes out that there's this guy that she found

500
00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:14,520
Speaker 1: a restraining order against. The kind of like one of

501
00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:17,720
Speaker 1: the only court filings that is in Samantha Koenig's name,

502
00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:21,640
Speaker 1: and it's about this incident where you know, she sort

503
00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:25,960
Speaker 1: of alleges that that there maybe was this sexual assault

504
00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:30,360
Speaker 1: that happened. Um at the time, it really people were

505
00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:33,960
Speaker 1: angry at him. They they they saw his videos, they

506
00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:36,640
Speaker 1: kind of saw this persona that he had as this

507
00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:40,960
Speaker 1: like hard edged kind of rapper guy. His rap name

508
00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:43,760
Speaker 1: was White Tyson, and that's that's kind of how he

509
00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:49,120
Speaker 1: went online. But I actually sat down with Christopher Bird

510
00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:51,960
Speaker 1: and a friend of his at a lawyer's office as

511
00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:55,000
Speaker 1: this was all going on, and talk to them for

512
00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:58,720
Speaker 1: at least an hour, you know about you know, where

513
00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:04,440
Speaker 1: where he was the night that she disappeared. Different confirmation

514
00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:09,040
Speaker 1: of his alibi, and he didn't really talk about the

515
00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:12,600
Speaker 1: incident that led to the restraining order, but sort of

516
00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:15,160
Speaker 1: played that down like that, you know, was sort of

517
00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:17,680
Speaker 1: her side of the story and that's not really what happened,

518
00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:21,120
Speaker 1: and that he just you know, said over and over

519
00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:23,520
Speaker 1: again that he had nothing to do with her disappearance. Well,

520
00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:26,760
Speaker 1: I mean, Casey Grove, Alaska, public media. Of course he's

521
00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:30,000
Speaker 1: going to tell you and some swanky lawyer's office he

522
00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:31,960
Speaker 1: had nothing to do with it. What did you think

523
00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:33,920
Speaker 1: he was going to confess to you right there and

524
00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:36,320
Speaker 1: hold up his wrists and say tough for me. For

525
00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:39,600
Speaker 1: Pete's say, well, now hold on, you can't just gloss

526
00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:43,320
Speaker 1: over this. What do you mean? White Tyson? He was

527
00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:48,920
Speaker 1: sort of a small time local rapper and had YouTube

528
00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:52,160
Speaker 1: videos of himself that were a little bit edgy. I

529
00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:54,640
Speaker 1: guess you could say like there was there was one

530
00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:56,800
Speaker 1: where he had like a hockey mask on, sort of

531
00:31:56,840 --> 00:32:00,840
Speaker 1: like Friday the thirteenth and pitbulls and stuff and kind

532
00:32:00,840 --> 00:32:05,120
Speaker 1: of like tough, tough rap stuff going on in his videos,

533
00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:07,520
Speaker 1: I guess for lack of a better explanation, So when

534
00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:10,520
Speaker 1: when we see that she has this straining order file

535
00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:12,680
Speaker 1: against this guy and he seems a little rough around

536
00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:15,880
Speaker 1: the edges and has this kind of at least persona

537
00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:19,480
Speaker 1: as this like tough, you know, rapper guy, it kind

538
00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:22,960
Speaker 1: of raised a lot of red flags. Jumpy CHERYLD Mike Tyson,

539
00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:26,440
Speaker 1: as you know, was also accused and convicted of a

540
00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:31,120
Speaker 1: sexual assault Mick Washington. So I think it's critical again

541
00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:34,520
Speaker 1: when you have a tear brave rejective order alleging that

542
00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:38,320
Speaker 1: and you have somebody kidnapped, because as you and I know,

543
00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:41,280
Speaker 1: normally sexual assault is going to be a part of it.

544
00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:44,680
Speaker 1: Another thing, Bobby Chicone, you're the specialist with the FBI.

545
00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:48,560
Speaker 1: What really got my attention was that in the videos

546
00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:52,680
Speaker 1: he wears a mask. Did you nobody hear that? Yeah?

547
00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:55,200
Speaker 1: There are you know, there are these obvious indications that

548
00:32:55,360 --> 00:32:58,320
Speaker 1: this person could be, you know, a solid person of

549
00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:01,120
Speaker 1: interest in the case. So I think early on reasonable

550
00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:04,960
Speaker 1: or a lot of resources were dedicated to ruling him

551
00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:08,680
Speaker 1: in or ruling him out initially, but after intense scrutiny

552
00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:14,200
Speaker 1: investigation Casey Grove with the Alaska Public Media, Christopher Bird

553
00:33:14,520 --> 00:33:17,120
Speaker 1: is ruled out and it happened pretty quickly. I think

554
00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:20,560
Speaker 1: that there was some pressure on the police to look

555
00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:26,680
Speaker 1: at this guy and you know, confirm or disprove his AUTBI,

556
00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:28,800
Speaker 1: and it turned out that they could confirm it and

557
00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:31,560
Speaker 1: figured out that he really didn't have anything to do

558
00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:34,120
Speaker 1: with it. And I do think that they put that

559
00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:37,240
Speaker 1: information out pretty pretty quickly after his name was sort

560
00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:42,040
Speaker 1: of out publicly to make sure that, you know, if

561
00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:44,040
Speaker 1: he was involved, they were going to make sure, you know,

562
00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:46,440
Speaker 1: they got the guy, and when they found out that

563
00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:48,280
Speaker 1: he wasn't involved, they wanted to make sure that the

564
00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:50,720
Speaker 1: public knew that this was not the guy. So now

565
00:33:50,880 --> 00:33:56,239
Speaker 1: we're back to square one. Every usual spast in an

566
00:33:56,240 --> 00:34:01,400
Speaker 1: operating procedure has failed. It's not the boy boyfriend, it's

567
00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:07,800
Speaker 1: not a customer, it's not the guy White Tyson, Christopher Bird,

568
00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:10,040
Speaker 1: the rapper, the bag guy she took out the t

569
00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:16,240
Speaker 1: r O four, So where does that leave me? Police

570
00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:21,360
Speaker 1: knocking their heads against the walls, a father going berserk,

571
00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:24,879
Speaker 1: and then out of the blue. Two and a half

572
00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:29,640
Speaker 1: weeks after Samantha's abduction, there's a chilling turn in the case.

573
00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:32,520
Speaker 1: Her boyfriend just goes sheet white, he's got his phone,

574
00:34:32,520 --> 00:34:35,560
Speaker 1: and there's a text from her phone. Basically it says

575
00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:41,080
Speaker 1: Connor's Park underneath Albert Pick, Ain't she purty? Authority's race

576
00:34:41,160 --> 00:34:45,120
Speaker 1: to Connor's Lake Park, just five miles southwest of downtown Anchorage,

577
00:34:45,680 --> 00:34:48,399
Speaker 1: not knowing what's waiting for them. When you enter that park,

578
00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:51,919
Speaker 1: there's a bulletin board and tech was a zip block

579
00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:55,120
Speaker 1: bag that had what ultimately was a photograph of Samantha

580
00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:57,360
Speaker 1: and a ransom note. The fact that there was a

581
00:34:57,440 --> 00:35:00,760
Speaker 1: ransom note really ratchets upon the tension because she's alive

582
00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:03,279
Speaker 1: and what are we going to do to get her back?

583
00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:12,799
Speaker 1: Two and a half weeks after Samantha's abduction, there's a

584
00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:15,960
Speaker 1: chilling turn in the case. Her boyfriend just goes sheet white,

585
00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:18,600
Speaker 1: he's got his phone, and there's a text from her phone.

586
00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:24,480
Speaker 1: Basically it says Connor's Park underneath Albert Pick. Ain't she pretty?

587
00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:28,280
Speaker 1: Authority's race to Connor's Lake Park, just five miles southwest

588
00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:31,799
Speaker 1: of downtown Anchorage, not knowing what's waiting for them. When

589
00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:35,200
Speaker 1: you enter that park, there's a bulletin board and tact

590
00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:38,279
Speaker 1: was a zip block bag that had what ultimately was

591
00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:40,640
Speaker 1: a photograph of Samantha and a ransom note. The fact

592
00:35:40,719 --> 00:35:44,400
Speaker 1: that there was a ransom note really ratchets upon the tension, because, Okay,

593
00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:47,000
Speaker 1: she's alive, and what are we going to do to

594
00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:51,759
Speaker 1: get her back? A fuzzy photo, a ransom note texted

595
00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:57,640
Speaker 1: saying ain't she pretty? Demanding thirty thousand dollars? What does

596
00:35:57,640 --> 00:36:03,000
Speaker 1: that some reveal her hair in braids? She never wore

597
00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:06,760
Speaker 1: her hair in braids. I haven't wore my hair in braids.

598
00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:09,080
Speaker 1: So I was in grammar school. So what would it

599
00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:11,120
Speaker 1: mean if I came into the studio with my hair

600
00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:15,960
Speaker 1: in braids one morning? All of these facts matter to

601
00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:21,800
Speaker 1: Bobby Chicone, FBI Special Agent. Bobby, the case breaks wide

602
00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:24,759
Speaker 1: open and there's so many facts it's like drinking out

603
00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:26,440
Speaker 1: of a fire hydra. What does it mean that it

604
00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:29,120
Speaker 1: was texted? What does it mean that it went to

605
00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:32,399
Speaker 1: the boyfriend not the dad? What does it all mean?

606
00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:36,880
Speaker 1: There's a fuzzy picture. You can't really see her that well,

607
00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:42,360
Speaker 1: but it's enough to identify. It's some matha Bobby, what

608
00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:44,839
Speaker 1: do you make of it? Well, it's like you said,

609
00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:47,320
Speaker 1: it's a treasure trove of clues for us to follow.

610
00:36:47,360 --> 00:36:50,120
Speaker 1: I mean, the photograph would be immediately looked at by

611
00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:53,200
Speaker 1: our forensic photography people to try to glean to get

612
00:36:53,280 --> 00:36:55,879
Speaker 1: rid of that fuzziness. What else can we learn what's

613
00:36:55,920 --> 00:36:58,480
Speaker 1: in the background of that photo, where that might lead

614
00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:01,080
Speaker 1: to the location where she is, the type of location.

615
00:37:01,520 --> 00:37:03,640
Speaker 1: Is she inside? Is she outside? Is she in a vehicle?

616
00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:06,920
Speaker 1: Isn't she a house? You know, So we're looking at

617
00:37:06,960 --> 00:37:09,960
Speaker 1: all of those things, and then our forensic linguists are

618
00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:12,400
Speaker 1: looking at the language us Like you said, the language

619
00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:14,880
Speaker 1: use what does that mean? All of these things? So,

620
00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:18,600
Speaker 1: really a team is a virtual team is put on

621
00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:21,880
Speaker 1: something like this, and everybody takes a piece to determine

622
00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:24,799
Speaker 1: what this particular thing means, because every one of those

623
00:37:24,840 --> 00:37:27,239
Speaker 1: clues is very deep and you have to pull on

624
00:37:27,280 --> 00:37:30,040
Speaker 1: that string and take it and that requires a lot

625
00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:32,879
Speaker 1: of manpower. So I mean, we started looking at all

626
00:37:32,920 --> 00:37:35,759
Speaker 1: of those things you just mentioned and try to run

627
00:37:35,800 --> 00:37:39,120
Speaker 1: each of them out to doctor Bethany Marshall, psychoanalist out

628
00:37:39,160 --> 00:37:44,640
Speaker 1: of California, the words ain't she pretty? Well, it's hard

629
00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:48,560
Speaker 1: for me to determine. Is that ain't she pretty? Like

630
00:37:48,920 --> 00:37:52,200
Speaker 1: mocking the victim and mocking the family? Or is this

631
00:37:52,320 --> 00:37:56,920
Speaker 1: somebody who is very uneducated And this is the best

632
00:37:57,320 --> 00:38:00,600
Speaker 1: language he can produce, But certainly it tells me a

633
00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:03,080
Speaker 1: little bit about the emo of the crime. The m

634
00:38:03,400 --> 00:38:06,400
Speaker 1: is not just to extract money. I mean, thirty thousand

635
00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:09,000
Speaker 1: dollars is not a lot of money, or at least

636
00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:11,960
Speaker 1: not here in Beverly Hills where I practice. Well, I

637
00:38:11,960 --> 00:38:15,600
Speaker 1: don't know what world, Bethany Marshall, but come down to

638
00:38:15,719 --> 00:38:18,880
Speaker 1: earth with the rest of us. Thirty grant is a

639
00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:22,200
Speaker 1: lot of money. Well, that's more than what some people

640
00:38:22,280 --> 00:38:28,399
Speaker 1: make in an entire year, doctor Bethany Marshal. But look

641
00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:30,920
Speaker 1: at what he did to get it. I mean, he

642
00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:35,680
Speaker 1: abducted a young woman for thirty thousand dollars. That's a

643
00:38:35,719 --> 00:38:37,799
Speaker 1: lot of work. Wouldn't it be easier just to get

644
00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:40,480
Speaker 1: a job. I mean, you know, the emo here is

645
00:38:40,520 --> 00:38:45,719
Speaker 1: not just money, Nancy. The mo here is to be cruel, sadistic,

646
00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:49,520
Speaker 1: to mock the family and to say I possess her,

647
00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:53,600
Speaker 1: you don't have her anymore. I'm going to continue to

648
00:38:53,600 --> 00:38:57,600
Speaker 1: egg this crime on more and more and more by

649
00:38:57,680 --> 00:39:01,520
Speaker 1: just eking out all these little clues, like dangling them

650
00:39:01,520 --> 00:39:04,239
Speaker 1: like a little carrot in front of you, so I

651
00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:07,880
Speaker 1: can have fun at having power over this victim and

652
00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:12,279
Speaker 1: her entire family and the community. To Cheryl McCullum, the

653
00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:15,719
Speaker 1: ransom note and the words which put a chill down

654
00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:19,359
Speaker 1: my spine, ain't she pretty? And you know he's done

655
00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:22,000
Speaker 1: her hair because she did not break her hair, right.

656
00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:25,680
Speaker 1: He chose that, he chose the amount, he chose where

657
00:39:25,680 --> 00:39:29,720
Speaker 1: to leave, the ransom note. Everything is his choice, Nancy.

658
00:39:29,840 --> 00:39:33,799
Speaker 1: He chose the boyfriend. And to me, that tells you

659
00:39:33,880 --> 00:39:37,360
Speaker 1: he's been watching the news. He knows who that kid is.

660
00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:42,240
Speaker 1: He knows what's going on at the home base. The money,

661
00:39:42,440 --> 00:39:46,600
Speaker 1: the amount says to me, it's not about money. He

662
00:39:46,680 --> 00:39:50,080
Speaker 1: didn't take her to ransom her. He didn't ransom her immediately.

663
00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:52,759
Speaker 1: He's not asking for a hundred thousand dollars and known

664
00:39:52,840 --> 00:39:55,200
Speaker 1: more bills. He's not telling them where to leave it.

665
00:39:55,480 --> 00:39:58,480
Speaker 1: He's playing a game with them. Now, Oh okay, in

666
00:39:58,640 --> 00:40:02,240
Speaker 1: my mind. To Bobby J. Fbi, that makes it worse

667
00:40:02,719 --> 00:40:07,560
Speaker 1: because he is the kidnapper is playing a game, and

668
00:40:07,719 --> 00:40:13,520
Speaker 1: the pawn is Samantha Koenig, this teen girl. And it

669
00:40:13,600 --> 00:40:17,719
Speaker 1: was actually kind of elaborate because we know the boyfriend

670
00:40:17,719 --> 00:40:21,680
Speaker 1: gets a text and his face goes sheet white. But

671
00:40:21,800 --> 00:40:24,480
Speaker 1: John Limley, how does the text to the boyfriend relate

672
00:40:24,520 --> 00:40:27,319
Speaker 1: to the actual ransom note? Well, Nancy, it is a

673
00:40:27,440 --> 00:40:31,640
Speaker 1: bizarre text and as we've heard, just one jumbled sentence

674
00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:34,720
Speaker 1: if you can even call it? That Connor Park sign

675
00:40:35,160 --> 00:40:38,879
Speaker 1: under pick of Albert, ain't she purty? And I say

676
00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:42,200
Speaker 1: purty that way because it's spelled p u r t y.

677
00:40:42,280 --> 00:40:49,320
Speaker 1: So police rush to Connor's Lake Park right next to it. Conna, slowdown,

678
00:40:49,320 --> 00:40:52,320
Speaker 1: so down? Tell me that again. So there's the picture,

679
00:40:52,760 --> 00:40:56,640
Speaker 1: the photo taken of her fuzzy, but they can tell

680
00:40:56,680 --> 00:41:00,920
Speaker 1: it's her. And underneath the picture it says what Connor

681
00:41:01,160 --> 00:41:06,960
Speaker 1: Park sign under pick of Albert? Ain't she purty? Connor

682
00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:12,480
Speaker 1: Park sign under pick of Albert? What's Albert? Well? Police

683
00:41:12,600 --> 00:41:16,440
Speaker 1: rush to this Connor's Park, just a few miles away

684
00:41:16,440 --> 00:41:20,279
Speaker 1: from downtown Anchorage. As they enter the park, there is

685
00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:23,200
Speaker 1: a big bulletin board right there beside the road, and

686
00:41:23,480 --> 00:41:27,000
Speaker 1: sure enough, on it there is a memorial flyer for

687
00:41:27,200 --> 00:41:31,000
Speaker 1: a dog named Albert, and right under that is a

688
00:41:31,080 --> 00:41:33,960
Speaker 1: zip lock bag with the photo of Samantha and the

689
00:41:34,080 --> 00:41:37,960
Speaker 1: ransom note. Oh my stars is making my stomach hurt.

690
00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:44,920
Speaker 1: Bobby Chicon FBI. So this perp, this guy in a

691
00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:49,480
Speaker 1: ski mask that marches Samantha Knig out of the coffee

692
00:41:49,480 --> 00:41:59,240
Speaker 1: shop text the boyfriend gives him this information Connor Park

693
00:42:00,440 --> 00:42:07,640
Speaker 1: sign pick of Albert and under it under a picture

694
00:42:07,640 --> 00:42:13,440
Speaker 1: of a lost dog named Albert, ziplot bag with a

695
00:42:13,560 --> 00:42:18,920
Speaker 1: ransom note and a picture of Samantha Koinig. Huge, huge

696
00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:20,640
Speaker 1: part of the case, huge break in the case. So

697
00:42:20,880 --> 00:42:23,239
Speaker 1: as odd as it sounds, this was huge news for

698
00:42:23,320 --> 00:42:27,440
Speaker 1: us and good news that we don't have a abduction

699
00:42:27,560 --> 00:42:31,640
Speaker 1: murder of the night of the the videotape of that

700
00:42:31,800 --> 00:42:35,720
Speaker 1: she was taken. We may now have a kidnapping for ransom,

701
00:42:35,800 --> 00:42:39,560
Speaker 1: so we may now have a living victim. So this

702
00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:43,200
Speaker 1: energize the investigation. Not only do we and we may

703
00:42:43,239 --> 00:42:45,960
Speaker 1: have a living victim, we now have contact with the

704
00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:50,759
Speaker 1: perpetrator apparently. So this completely turned the investigation on its

705
00:42:50,800 --> 00:42:55,799
Speaker 1: head from a you know abduction and unknown you know

706
00:42:57,320 --> 00:43:00,120
Speaker 1: results of that too, now an active kidnapping case, the

707
00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:04,799
Speaker 1: ransom demand. So this really turned the entire investigation and

708
00:43:05,320 --> 00:43:09,400
Speaker 1: quite frankly brought whole back into a week's old investigation

709
00:43:09,560 --> 00:43:13,560
Speaker 1: that now we may have the ability to get Samantha back. Well,

710
00:43:13,560 --> 00:43:16,279
Speaker 1: what does it say to you? Because I feel like

711
00:43:17,600 --> 00:43:21,880
Speaker 1: it's like a cat playing with a little mouse, and

712
00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:25,600
Speaker 1: that look in its eyes as it's batting the mouse

713
00:43:25,719 --> 00:43:30,680
Speaker 1: back and forth, back and forth before it pounces and

714
00:43:30,880 --> 00:43:34,600
Speaker 1: kills that. There's something old on. I gotta go to

715
00:43:34,600 --> 00:43:37,880
Speaker 1: a shrink. Doctor. Bethany Marshall in the Stephen Avery case,

716
00:43:37,960 --> 00:43:42,720
Speaker 1: the media darling of making a murderer. He cut off

717
00:43:43,040 --> 00:43:47,640
Speaker 1: Teresa Halback's hair before he raped and murdered her. What

718
00:43:47,960 --> 00:43:51,040
Speaker 1: is it? And here we see Samantha's hair. We know

719
00:43:51,640 --> 00:43:54,759
Speaker 1: he braided it. She's never worn her hair like that.

720
00:43:55,640 --> 00:43:58,440
Speaker 1: What does that mean to you? It means to me

721
00:43:58,719 --> 00:44:03,480
Speaker 1: that these perpetrated treat their victims like dolls, like they

722
00:44:03,520 --> 00:44:08,120
Speaker 1: have complete control over them. Remember BTK, the BTK murderer.

723
00:44:09,120 --> 00:44:13,280
Speaker 1: Dolls featured prominently in the pictures that he took of himself.

724
00:44:13,680 --> 00:44:16,719
Speaker 1: When you have a doll, you have complete control over it.

725
00:44:16,880 --> 00:44:18,839
Speaker 1: You can toss it on the sidewalk, you can rip

726
00:44:18,840 --> 00:44:21,000
Speaker 1: its head off, you can do whatever you want with it.

727
00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:24,120
Speaker 1: It is not going to protest. And if you treat

728
00:44:24,280 --> 00:44:28,439
Speaker 1: a human being, an adult woman like a doll, you're

729
00:44:28,480 --> 00:44:32,120
Speaker 1: saying you're my possession. I own you, I can do

730
00:44:32,160 --> 00:44:34,120
Speaker 1: whatever I want with you. And if I was this

731
00:44:34,200 --> 00:44:36,879
Speaker 1: family and the police at this point, I would be

732
00:44:37,040 --> 00:44:41,120
Speaker 1: freaking out and I would be trying to prolong this

733
00:44:41,239 --> 00:44:45,880
Speaker 1: cat and mouse game as long as possible for fear

734
00:44:46,000 --> 00:44:47,920
Speaker 1: that he's about to move in and kill her. Well,

735
00:44:47,920 --> 00:44:51,360
Speaker 1: there's another factor too, John Linley. Wasn't there a newspaper?

736
00:44:51,640 --> 00:44:54,799
Speaker 1: Was she holding a newspaper in the photo? Yes, she

737
00:44:55,000 --> 00:44:58,879
Speaker 1: was posed with a copy of a local newspaper with

738
00:44:59,200 --> 00:45:03,279
Speaker 1: the date February thirteenth of twenty twelve. To give that

739
00:45:03,560 --> 00:45:07,080
Speaker 1: photo of a time stamp or a date stamp to

740
00:45:07,160 --> 00:45:12,799
Speaker 1: Bobby Chicone FBI special agent, Bobby, you rattled off so

741
00:45:12,840 --> 00:45:16,560
Speaker 1: many things that we got to look for in this photo.

742
00:45:16,920 --> 00:45:21,080
Speaker 1: You said, background, inside, outside, the language, use the money, sum,

743
00:45:21,320 --> 00:45:23,160
Speaker 1: What are you looking for? What are you trying to

744
00:45:23,200 --> 00:45:25,759
Speaker 1: find out? Do you look at every single word? And

745
00:45:25,880 --> 00:45:27,920
Speaker 1: sticking in my mind is the fact that he's spelled

746
00:45:28,120 --> 00:45:32,319
Speaker 1: ain't she pretty? He spelled it? Pu rt y I

747
00:45:32,360 --> 00:45:34,960
Speaker 1: think John Linley said, yeah, you're looking at language usee.

748
00:45:35,000 --> 00:45:38,640
Speaker 1: We have for linguists that determine what those words mean

749
00:45:38,719 --> 00:45:42,400
Speaker 1: and why. And we have had people means, most notably

750
00:45:42,400 --> 00:45:45,879
Speaker 1: the unibomber who misspell words on purpose to miss try

751
00:45:45,920 --> 00:45:49,520
Speaker 1: to mislead us as to their background. So the forensic

752
00:45:49,600 --> 00:45:51,840
Speaker 1: language are experts at pouring through that kind of stuff.

753
00:45:52,000 --> 00:45:55,880
Speaker 1: We have our forensic photography people going through that photograph

754
00:45:55,920 --> 00:45:57,640
Speaker 1: and seeing what else they can clean out of it.

755
00:45:58,560 --> 00:46:01,560
Speaker 1: We have a psychologist quite frankly, that are telling us

756
00:46:01,640 --> 00:46:04,600
Speaker 1: what the ransom demand might mean, what the braiding of

757
00:46:04,600 --> 00:46:06,960
Speaker 1: the hair might mean. So all of this is now

758
00:46:07,040 --> 00:46:12,319
Speaker 1: creating a picture of the possible perpetrator and possible motivations,

759
00:46:12,360 --> 00:46:14,680
Speaker 1: and all of that leads to you know who this

760
00:46:14,719 --> 00:46:17,080
Speaker 1: person is and therefore where they are. What does it

761
00:46:17,120 --> 00:46:20,160
Speaker 1: mean to you, Dr Bethanie Marshall that he uses the

762
00:46:20,719 --> 00:46:26,120
Speaker 1: slang ain't and ain't she pretty pu rt Why no

763
00:46:26,880 --> 00:46:31,640
Speaker 1: fat can be discounted, no clue can be overlooked. What

764
00:46:31,680 --> 00:46:34,319
Speaker 1: does that mean? To be honest with you. When John

765
00:46:34,400 --> 00:46:38,040
Speaker 1: Lemley was saying that, I thought, oh good lord, this

766
00:46:38,080 --> 00:46:40,919
Speaker 1: guy has the mentality of a junior high schooler, and

767
00:46:40,960 --> 00:46:43,839
Speaker 1: then I thought criminals are not that smart, and then

768
00:46:43,880 --> 00:46:47,000
Speaker 1: I thought they think they're so fascinating, but really they're

769
00:46:47,080 --> 00:46:51,360
Speaker 1: pretty boring. So it seems sort of scareotyped and rehearsed.

770
00:46:51,480 --> 00:46:54,680
Speaker 1: Ain't she Purty? Like he's been watching too many Western movies?

771
00:46:55,080 --> 00:46:58,440
Speaker 1: But somehow he thinks he's really fascinating, and he's reeling

772
00:46:58,480 --> 00:47:01,919
Speaker 1: everything and everybody in with this. Let's see, I disagree

773
00:47:02,239 --> 00:47:06,200
Speaker 1: because a guy that is so sophisticated that he can

774
00:47:06,680 --> 00:47:09,560
Speaker 1: send a text to the boyfriend who he obviously has

775
00:47:09,600 --> 00:47:12,480
Speaker 1: the boyfriend's cell number, he must have gotten that out

776
00:47:12,480 --> 00:47:17,040
Speaker 1: of her cell and then wisely, I mean, I'm assuming

777
00:47:17,080 --> 00:47:21,680
Speaker 1: that text came from Samantha's phone. Then he has gone

778
00:47:21,760 --> 00:47:26,400
Speaker 1: to a local park and he has hidden noess in

779
00:47:27,480 --> 00:47:30,680
Speaker 1: a plastic bag that they can't get prints off, and

780
00:47:30,680 --> 00:47:35,719
Speaker 1: in that is this same fuzzy picture printed out with

781
00:47:35,840 --> 00:47:39,520
Speaker 1: the ransom demand. See, I think he's a lot more

782
00:47:39,520 --> 00:47:48,319
Speaker 1: sophisticated in his deliberate choice to misspelled pretty Purty to

783
00:47:48,600 --> 00:47:53,560
Speaker 1: me is more chilling than any indicator that he can't spell.

784
00:47:53,600 --> 00:47:57,640
Speaker 1: He smelled every other word correctly, Bobby Chacone, that's right,

785
00:47:57,719 --> 00:48:00,920
Speaker 1: And you know we will look at that whether or

786
00:48:00,920 --> 00:48:03,600
Speaker 1: not this was misspelled on purpose, because that will tell

787
00:48:03,680 --> 00:48:06,960
Speaker 1: us another piece of the mindset of the perpetrator. So

788
00:48:07,320 --> 00:48:09,120
Speaker 1: you look at that kind of thing. But in the end,

789
00:48:09,840 --> 00:48:13,239
Speaker 1: it also we also know that it is unnecessary to

790
00:48:13,280 --> 00:48:16,200
Speaker 1: a ransom amand ransom demands many times are very businesslike

791
00:48:16,840 --> 00:48:19,680
Speaker 1: with instructions and things like that. This is a taunt,

792
00:48:20,000 --> 00:48:25,160
Speaker 1: so you know that ratchets up the concern that this

793
00:48:25,239 --> 00:48:28,680
Speaker 1: perpetrator is playing games. It's it's a taunt not normally

794
00:48:28,719 --> 00:48:32,640
Speaker 1: seen in a ransom Amand if your goal is to

795
00:48:32,680 --> 00:48:35,319
Speaker 1: get money for this person that you took and then

796
00:48:35,360 --> 00:48:37,480
Speaker 1: release the person once you get that money, there's no

797
00:48:37,560 --> 00:48:40,680
Speaker 1: reason to taunt the family. There's no reason to taunt

798
00:48:40,719 --> 00:48:44,560
Speaker 1: the police. So there that tells us there's an extra

799
00:48:44,640 --> 00:48:50,000
Speaker 1: motivation behind this perpetrator. Eighteen year old Samantha Sammy Kning vanishes.

800
00:48:50,680 --> 00:48:55,640
Speaker 1: A typed ransom note demanding thirty thousand dollars from Samantha's

801
00:48:55,680 --> 00:49:00,640
Speaker 1: family was on the back of a photocopy the photo

802
00:49:01,400 --> 00:49:06,239
Speaker 1: and he sends a text from Samantha's cell phone with

803
00:49:06,560 --> 00:49:12,000
Speaker 1: obscure directions to the note. What does the note reveal?

804
00:49:13,080 --> 00:49:18,400
Speaker 1: What do we learn about her kidnapper, and will this

805
00:49:18,480 --> 00:49:26,440
Speaker 1: clue be enough to bring Samantha home alive? Nancy Grace

806
00:49:27,440 --> 00:49:30,120
Speaker 1: signing off goodbye fr