WEBVTT - Gottlieb - All Ball - w/guests David Griffin and Ric Bucher 0:00:06.160 --> 0:00:09.559 Hey, welcome into All Ball, the All Basketball podcast here 0:00:09.880 --> 0:00:12.879 for you on the Heard podcast network. Make sure you 0:00:12.920 --> 0:00:16.120 get downloads, you subscribe, and you rate us. Got over 0:00:16.160 --> 0:00:19.200 a hundred thousand downloads just last week. Let's get that 0:00:19.280 --> 0:00:22.799 number up to a hundred fifty thousand downs. Give you 0:00:22.840 --> 0:00:26.799 a couple of my thoughts, get you into some great interviews, 0:00:26.840 --> 0:00:31.560 some interesting perspective on the NBA and UM. Maybe a 0:00:31.600 --> 0:00:34.879 couple of college basketball thoughts as well. Kind of interesting 0:00:35.400 --> 0:00:40.320 what has happened with UM with Condoleeza Rice. Here's my 0:00:40.360 --> 0:00:43.440 read on Conda Liza Rice deciding to do a one 0:00:43.560 --> 0:00:45.960 eighty or maybe not a complete one eighty, more of 0:00:45.960 --> 0:00:50.360 a ninety or a one twenty, saying after the night 0:00:50.720 --> 0:00:55.680 after the commission released their findings on college basketball. Only 0:00:55.720 --> 0:00:57.960 now she comes out and says, hey, I think I 0:00:57.960 --> 0:01:00.320 should be you know, able to be called and saying 0:01:00.440 --> 0:01:02.560 for their name and likeness. Two parts to it. One, 0:01:03.240 --> 0:01:05.800 she wasn't the entire committee. This is kind of Liza 0:01:05.880 --> 0:01:08.839 rightist thoughts as opposed to the committee's findings. Was well, 0:01:08.880 --> 0:01:14.360 their findings as a whole. Secondly, I think we've gotten 0:01:14.400 --> 0:01:17.760 this place where no one wants to be unpopular. That's it. 0:01:18.280 --> 0:01:21.280 No one wants to be unpopular. It's an unpopular narrative 0:01:21.360 --> 0:01:25.040 to say guys should be compensated, should not be compensated 0:01:25.080 --> 0:01:29.639 for their name and likeness. It's unpopular narrative. Sorry, because 0:01:29.920 --> 0:01:32.240 our college basketball coaches have told me that, Hey, look, man, 0:01:32.760 --> 0:01:36.160 I don't really care if they do, but there's so 0:01:36.200 --> 0:01:38.480 many We have a near perfect system. We have a 0:01:38.520 --> 0:01:41.240 really good system, and we're gonna try and find perfect 0:01:41.240 --> 0:01:43.240 out of it. It just doesn't exist. You're gonna open 0:01:43.319 --> 0:01:46.360 up a whole new can of worms. Last week, I 0:01:46.440 --> 0:01:52.960 was at University of Kansas and UM Kansas obviously somehow 0:01:53.000 --> 0:01:54.760 and broke a little bit in the FBI stuff, although 0:01:54.800 --> 0:01:58.800 they're not accused of any wrongdoing in the most recent 0:01:58.880 --> 0:02:02.360 FBI details. But what's fascinating to me is here's Kansas 0:02:02.880 --> 0:02:05.800 one of the top five programs in the country, Historic 0:02:06.040 --> 0:02:08.840 fall Gallen Field House. They produced one and duns and 0:02:08.880 --> 0:02:11.920 sometimes two, three, four or five and duns. And I 0:02:11.960 --> 0:02:15.200 watched Davontae Graham, who's just what an amazing career he 0:02:15.240 --> 0:02:17.360 had from a guy who originally committed to app State 0:02:17.840 --> 0:02:20.720 getting out, sitting out next year, coming to KU, going 0:02:20.800 --> 0:02:23.160 from being a combo guard and a bench player to 0:02:23.240 --> 0:02:25.800 a star starter in a star in the point guard 0:02:25.800 --> 0:02:27.400 this year in the Final four team, Like what an 0:02:27.440 --> 0:02:30.520 incredible career. And you know what he was doing when 0:02:30.520 --> 0:02:32.960 I was there. He had an autograph signing session in 0:02:33.040 --> 0:02:35.040 Lawrence and then he had one in Whichita and I 0:02:35.080 --> 0:02:39.000 would guess he was gonna bag grand or so and 0:02:39.000 --> 0:02:41.920 and so the idea is like look at the very 0:02:42.040 --> 0:02:44.600 very top the top of the heat because the only 0:02:44.600 --> 0:02:47.280 people who's who we think their name and likeness is 0:02:47.280 --> 0:02:49.320 really valuable is the guys at the very top of 0:02:49.360 --> 0:02:54.680 the heap. They're so well compensated, if you will, they 0:02:54.720 --> 0:02:58.880 don't really need the autograph session. They have MacArthur Hall 0:02:59.080 --> 0:03:02.760 right next to the gym. MacArthur Hall is a basketball dorm. 0:03:02.800 --> 0:03:04.519 They do have regular students in it. It has a 0:03:04.560 --> 0:03:06.880 three quarter court basketball court, has a full time chef, 0:03:06.880 --> 0:03:09.040 has all this other stuff they have that. They have 0:03:09.160 --> 0:03:11.480 a brand new locker room, They play in the best 0:03:11.480 --> 0:03:14.119 are in the country. They have cost of attendance, they 0:03:14.160 --> 0:03:18.320 have a beautiful practic facility. They have everything you could 0:03:18.400 --> 0:03:21.240 ever want there. You never there's you want them for nothing, 0:03:21.960 --> 0:03:24.800 nothing for nothing. And if you want to say and 0:03:24.919 --> 0:03:28.800 like look at what's fascinating me is guys like Jay Billis, 0:03:28.960 --> 0:03:34.160 who has had amazing career after his Duke career finished right, 0:03:34.160 --> 0:03:37.440 played professionally, some came back, was a grad student, got 0:03:37.440 --> 0:03:40.800 his law degree from Duke as a practicing lawyer partner firm, 0:03:41.000 --> 0:03:45.840 and is the lead analyst for ESPN. J Billis went 0:03:45.880 --> 0:03:49.280 to school for a Duke for seven years without ever 0:03:49.360 --> 0:03:51.960 opening a checkbook. And j BILLI is as good as 0:03:52.000 --> 0:03:54.480 he is an ANALYSTI is very very good. Those doors 0:03:54.520 --> 0:03:56.360 would not have been opening. And I played at Duke, 0:03:58.040 --> 0:04:02.760 not um. Jalen Rose? Who who? Who offered up the 0:04:02.880 --> 0:04:07.600 completely nonsensical they should boycott the final four? Like, dude, 0:04:07.680 --> 0:04:10.280 Jalen Who's you know, he's on get up, He's on 0:04:10.880 --> 0:04:13.800 the NBA. He had a he had a good NBA career. 0:04:14.000 --> 0:04:16.599 Jayalen Rose is known to the world because he was 0:04:17.200 --> 0:04:19.280 one of the two great players in the on the 0:04:19.320 --> 0:04:21.640 Fab five, actually one of the three best players in 0:04:21.680 --> 0:04:24.839 the Fab five. Jowan Howard's great player too, but he's like, 0:04:25.120 --> 0:04:27.120 I think, how many kids are named Jalen Now? Why 0:04:27.400 --> 0:04:29.159 it's not because of Jalen Rose. When he's playing with 0:04:29.160 --> 0:04:33.080 the pacers, you know, with the bulls, Jalen Rose with 0:04:33.120 --> 0:04:36.039 the Fab five dude. He was popular and we made 0:04:36.080 --> 0:04:41.160 him popular. But what's what's fascinating to me is this 0:04:41.200 --> 0:04:44.880 whole idea of well, it's not you're not allowing kids 0:04:45.040 --> 0:04:48.920 to choose, you know, one school above the other. Why 0:04:48.920 --> 0:04:51.120 can't you just do free market? It is it's one. 0:04:51.200 --> 0:04:53.479 It's not a free market. NBA is not a free market. 0:04:53.560 --> 0:04:55.680 By the way, you can't just pick on a whim 0:04:56.279 --> 0:04:59.760 where you go. There's the collectively Barkin Agreement. Now, if 0:04:59.760 --> 0:05:01.720 you to say they don't have any collective parting rights 0:05:01.800 --> 0:05:05.599 in college basketball, that's fair. On the other hand, all 0:05:05.640 --> 0:05:07.520 of the rights they do have would be what they 0:05:07.520 --> 0:05:11.320 would be fighting for collectively limited work hours twenty hours 0:05:11.320 --> 0:05:14.719 in season, eight hours out of season. You know they 0:05:14.720 --> 0:05:17.200 have for now, they have four year scholarships and oh yeah, 0:05:17.200 --> 0:05:20.200 by the way, postgraduate scholarships. If they leave their scholarship 0:05:20.240 --> 0:05:23.080 early to go play professionally, they can come back anytime 0:05:23.400 --> 0:05:25.560 beyond full scholarship and beyond the floor as a coach. 0:05:25.600 --> 0:05:28.800 Like that, the benefits are ridiculous. And if you say, well, 0:05:28.839 --> 0:05:30.800 it doesn't allow colleges to compete, why can't of course 0:05:30.800 --> 0:05:36.000 they compete. They compete with facilities, with academic help, with 0:05:36.640 --> 0:05:39.520 how they promote you, with who they play, the conference 0:05:39.560 --> 0:05:41.840 they play in. You know, look, if you if you're 0:05:41.880 --> 0:05:44.360 good enough as a basketball player, you're Do you want 0:05:44.360 --> 0:05:46.279 to go play a duke play for Mike Szchewski, who 0:05:46.279 --> 0:05:48.479 has a litany of coaches in college basketball and in 0:05:48.520 --> 0:05:50.560 the NBA and all these other NBA players and the 0:05:50.600 --> 0:05:52.640 commissioner of the NBA is a duke all um. Or 0:05:52.680 --> 0:05:54.560 do you want to go play Kentucky? They have their 0:05:54.600 --> 0:05:56.880 own kind of setup. Here's why you would play Kentucky. 0:05:57.120 --> 0:05:58.240 Or do you wanna play at u c l A 0:05:58.279 --> 0:06:00.560 where you become a name in the city, the Evangels. 0:06:00.600 --> 0:06:02.280 Do you want to play Arizona where you become a 0:06:02.720 --> 0:06:05.200 part of what they called a player's program. Do you 0:06:05.240 --> 0:06:07.600 want to go play at Indiana where you're part of 0:06:08.200 --> 0:06:11.120 history and wearing the candy stripe pants like they all 0:06:11.160 --> 0:06:15.640 have their It's no different than choosing between jobs. But 0:06:15.680 --> 0:06:18.560 the idea that well, they players don't get nothing, don't 0:06:18.560 --> 0:06:22.480 get anything. Anyone who's been through it knows that's not true. 0:06:22.600 --> 0:06:25.960 Anyone been through it knows that first of all, getting 0:06:25.960 --> 0:06:29.320 into college is really hard. We never calculate the cost 0:06:30.000 --> 0:06:33.600 of just getting in and like for Wendell Carter's mom 0:06:33.680 --> 0:06:36.200 to say, well, this is like only like slaves, like, no, 0:06:36.279 --> 0:06:39.840 it's not gonna stop it. That's that's embarrassing, really is 0:06:40.680 --> 0:06:43.960 it's embarrassing. I mean to get into Duke. Going to 0:06:44.040 --> 0:06:45.640 Duke gives a choice when car didn't have to go 0:06:45.680 --> 0:06:48.960 to Duke. And all we did was promote Duke and 0:06:49.000 --> 0:06:53.159 therefore freshman and Grayson Allen as a senior U should 0:06:53.200 --> 0:06:55.480 they end up getting they they gets. You gives you 0:06:55.560 --> 0:06:57.680 credibility that you played for Mike sa Chefski, that you 0:06:57.760 --> 0:06:59.360 played for Duke, did you play in the A SEC, 0:07:00.000 --> 0:07:03.600 get to play in in Cameren Indoor Stadium. All these 0:07:03.640 --> 0:07:07.760 are choices that you make. Slaves didn't have choices. They 0:07:07.839 --> 0:07:10.160 just didn't. They didn't go like, oh, hey, you know, 0:07:10.280 --> 0:07:13.400 I want to transfer from this slave owner to that 0:07:13.640 --> 0:07:16.360 slave owner and still be on scholarship at the time. 0:07:16.680 --> 0:07:19.480 They didn't say like, oh hey, listen, um, the slave 0:07:19.560 --> 0:07:21.080 thing it was cool for a year, but I want 0:07:21.080 --> 0:07:23.600 to go play in the pro slave Like come on, dude, 0:07:23.600 --> 0:07:27.440 what what are we talking about. You get an unbelievable 0:07:27.440 --> 0:07:30.720 opportunity to make a name for yourself while getting an education, 0:07:30.920 --> 0:07:33.080 and you might not value education, but that's on you 0:07:34.560 --> 0:07:37.160 and to all of these people in our business you are, 0:07:37.320 --> 0:07:41.000 you're embarrassing yourselves because you know, the reality of it is, 0:07:41.280 --> 0:07:44.440 college basketball doesn't make all that much money for universities, 0:07:44.720 --> 0:07:47.360 doesn't It makes money for the n c A, which 0:07:47.400 --> 0:07:49.720 pays for all the other sports. And while you may 0:07:49.840 --> 0:07:51.560 that may be envy it, you may be envious of 0:07:51.640 --> 0:07:53.480 it's like whole the whole thing is a non not 0:07:53.640 --> 0:07:56.680 for profit, nonprofit deal where no one pays taxes on anything, 0:07:57.440 --> 0:07:59.640 and all of these things that you get in real life. 0:08:00.080 --> 0:08:02.360 You're like, well, it's like a job. Sure, I'll tell 0:08:02.360 --> 0:08:04.960 you it's a job limited the work hours. But here's 0:08:04.960 --> 0:08:06.960 a big thing. You don't pay taxes. And the people 0:08:06.960 --> 0:08:10.960 who say, well, that's not a big thing, bullshit. I 0:08:11.080 --> 0:08:14.800 pay taxes. Have you ever moved for work and they 0:08:14.840 --> 0:08:16.560 pay for it? Do you know what happens you gotta 0:08:16.560 --> 0:08:20.080 pay taxes on. Have you ever gotten your health care 0:08:20.280 --> 0:08:22.280 taken care of by your employer? Because that's what happens 0:08:22.280 --> 0:08:24.280 in college basketball. You know what else you have to 0:08:24.320 --> 0:08:29.000 do pay taxes on? You get academic services, they're free, right, 0:08:29.040 --> 0:08:34.000 now your employee can't pay for it. So any of 0:08:34.080 --> 0:08:37.839 these things you get, you get gifts. Like if you 0:08:37.920 --> 0:08:39.800 win on the prices right and you get a gift 0:08:39.840 --> 0:08:42.720 handed to you, you don't have to pay tax on. Right, 0:08:43.360 --> 0:08:46.000 The same thing would happen if you open it up 0:08:46.000 --> 0:08:49.000 and made pay for play, same thing pay tax on. 0:08:49.280 --> 0:08:51.720 So taxes are a big thing. The cost of admission 0:08:51.800 --> 0:08:56.440 is a good thing, um, And we don't charge anything 0:08:56.520 --> 0:09:00.959 for the cost of senseless and seamless promotion. We You know, 0:09:01.240 --> 0:09:03.760 ESPN made Trey Young and his unbelievable run to being 0:09:03.800 --> 0:09:06.839 the lead score and assist man in college basketball. He 0:09:06.960 --> 0:09:09.040 was part of every headline. Did that help them boost 0:09:09.080 --> 0:09:12.760 their numbers some, but it also made Trey Young a 0:09:12.840 --> 0:09:16.719 household name in college basketball. If anything, he should owe 0:09:16.760 --> 0:09:21.559 money to them, not vice versa. So look, um, I 0:09:21.679 --> 0:09:23.920 know that you're raised in a generation of people that 0:09:24.120 --> 0:09:27.360 are are wanted and expecting for everyone to always give 0:09:27.400 --> 0:09:31.000 them something. But here's the deal with college. Just like 0:09:31.080 --> 0:09:33.960 any other student, if you achieve something great in college, 0:09:34.040 --> 0:09:36.000 you have a great chance at an awesome first job. 0:09:36.160 --> 0:09:38.240 That's the same for athletics as it is for engineering. 0:09:39.240 --> 0:09:43.880 Colleges are hard to get into more expensive than ever. Um. 0:09:44.320 --> 0:09:47.079 By the way, that is the same with basketball, but 0:09:47.360 --> 0:09:49.839 not the same for basketball players in terms of they 0:09:49.880 --> 0:09:54.880 pay they pay nothing and actually get more back in return. Lastly, 0:09:55.040 --> 0:09:58.640 and maybe most importantly, you do realize that college students 0:09:59.120 --> 0:10:01.199 not only have to fight to get in, then once 0:10:01.240 --> 0:10:03.200 they get in, they gotta pay the freight and all 0:10:03.280 --> 0:10:05.760 that paying the freight. Like if you say, well, you know, 0:10:05.840 --> 0:10:08.480 I know, they say, Duke is seventy five dollars a year, 0:10:09.120 --> 0:10:10.959 but I can get a scholar You can get scholarships 0:10:11.000 --> 0:10:14.800 for grand Okay, fine, fifty grand. That's fifty grand post tax. 0:10:14.960 --> 0:10:17.080 So a parent has to just to pay for their 0:10:17.160 --> 0:10:22.280 kid to go to Duke, you gotta make eight profit 0:10:23.320 --> 0:10:25.480 gross in order to net out the fifty grand that 0:10:25.520 --> 0:10:29.200 you're gonna pay out. Oh and the second you walk 0:10:29.280 --> 0:10:31.920 away from your school as an along, you know what 0:10:31.960 --> 0:10:34.520 they're gonna do, hits you for more money. So I 0:10:35.880 --> 0:10:38.439 know that that that we we have, that we've we've 0:10:38.559 --> 0:10:42.520 raised a generation of people that expect others to just 0:10:42.960 --> 0:10:45.040 you're making money I'm supposed to make. But that ain't 0:10:45.040 --> 0:10:47.280 the way it works, dude. That way and the way 0:10:47.280 --> 0:10:51.599 it works. You know, you can think that you know. 0:10:52.280 --> 0:10:55.760 Here's the here's the best example I used for me personally. People, 0:10:55.880 --> 0:10:57.559 guys in the radio, and many of you listen to 0:10:57.679 --> 0:11:00.800 this podcast, I want you to search your soul for 0:11:01.360 --> 0:11:03.440 how difficult it was for you to get your first 0:11:03.559 --> 0:11:06.920 job first on air? Show how Harvard is that? It 0:11:07.040 --> 0:11:10.200 wasn't hard for me. I never took a broadcasting class, 0:11:10.440 --> 0:11:12.719 never took a journalism class. I'm not journalists. I know 0:11:12.960 --> 0:11:15.400 the laws of journalism. I studied something that I learned 0:11:15.480 --> 0:11:16.960 kind of fake it till you make it sort of thing. 0:11:17.160 --> 0:11:18.679 But I'm not journalists. Many of you going to went 0:11:18.720 --> 0:11:22.840 to j school and your first job was making twelve 0:11:22.880 --> 0:11:25.880 an hour. Your first job made grand year. You had 0:11:25.920 --> 0:11:29.640 to grind through that and then hopefully grow. My first 0:11:29.720 --> 0:11:35.440 job was I made sixty year before endorsements in Oklahoma 0:11:35.559 --> 0:11:37.880 City end up being about seventy five plus the money 0:11:37.920 --> 0:11:40.079 I made from ESPN, I was in the six figures 0:11:40.120 --> 0:11:43.400 without ever Why is that explaining college made a name 0:11:43.440 --> 0:11:48.720 for myself, used their promotion to benefit my brand. Period. 0:11:49.240 --> 0:11:51.800 That's the opportunity that's in front of you and most 0:11:51.880 --> 0:11:54.000 of us as former athletes, and j Billis knows this, 0:11:54.080 --> 0:11:55.920 and Jalen Rose knows this, and j. Williams knows this. 0:11:56.040 --> 0:11:58.240 So all these people that walk around and act like well, 0:11:58.320 --> 0:11:59.720 you know, they're getting more out of the Anglo than 0:11:59.800 --> 0:12:07.400 not another not schools I've been around for a hundred years. Yes, 0:12:07.840 --> 0:12:10.960 football is the driving force, and the volume of college 0:12:11.000 --> 0:12:13.320 basketball games is the driving force. But the ratings are 0:12:13.360 --> 0:12:17.800 not great. It's it's a more volume product. But the 0:12:17.920 --> 0:12:20.760 people who go, people who watch and go to college 0:12:20.840 --> 0:12:23.480 games are people who went to that school or live 0:12:23.520 --> 0:12:27.559 close to that school, and maybe they learn about a 0:12:27.679 --> 0:12:30.520 player along the way or while being recruited that they 0:12:30.600 --> 0:12:33.679 fall in love with. That's a very small number. Go 0:12:33.840 --> 0:12:37.199 into any college basketball arena and look around and say, 0:12:37.240 --> 0:12:41.280 why are these people at that game? Alums what they've 0:12:41.280 --> 0:12:44.280 always done. They go with their dad, they're from the area, 0:12:44.760 --> 0:12:47.960 kids from in state or there. It's more regionally based 0:12:48.200 --> 0:12:51.880 or based upon the heartstrings of having gone there. It's 0:12:51.880 --> 0:12:55.960 not based upon any one kid. It just isn't. Johnny 0:12:56.000 --> 0:12:59.480 Menzel's perfect example who will continue to benefit from being 0:12:59.520 --> 0:13:01.640 a high s and trophy winner and haven't when he 0:13:01.679 --> 0:13:04.000 graduates eventually from Texas and m A Texas and m 0:13:04.080 --> 0:13:06.680 lum And yeah it could, you could did they sell 0:13:06.720 --> 0:13:09.160 some jerseys in and make a little bit of money, 0:13:09.440 --> 0:13:11.880 a little bit, but they didn't make any money of 0:13:11.880 --> 0:13:17.120 the year he read shirted, not penny and Texas and 0:13:17.280 --> 0:13:19.679 M's stadiums have still been full there full before he 0:13:19.720 --> 0:13:22.120 got there, full after he got there. Why because Aggies 0:13:22.280 --> 0:13:27.040 go to Aggie games. Period. So I'm not saying that 0:13:27.679 --> 0:13:32.079 we shouldn't do our best to give quality education to 0:13:32.160 --> 0:13:36.120 the guys when they finished going to college, can't uh, 0:13:36.559 --> 0:13:38.720 you know, provide for themselves. Sure, I think there are 0:13:38.920 --> 0:13:41.240 some sensible discussion about it. But this idea that like 0:13:41.400 --> 0:13:44.520 I can't, I can't capitalize off my name and likes, 0:13:44.559 --> 0:13:50.439 you absolutely can't for the rest of your life. You 0:13:50.600 --> 0:13:54.439 can't your life. Everything you did in college, and thankfully 0:13:54.480 --> 0:13:56.920 things you didn't in the pros end up benefiting you 0:13:57.240 --> 0:13:59.439 when you wear the logo of your college going forward. 0:14:00.320 --> 0:14:02.400 All right, let's get to the NBA, shall we? As 0:14:02.480 --> 0:14:07.000 we get ready for the Western Conference finals. To me, 0:14:07.160 --> 0:14:10.439 the key element becomes Clint Capella. Can he stay on 0:14:10.600 --> 0:14:16.120 the floor on defense when the Warriors go small? You know, 0:14:16.280 --> 0:14:18.400 the interesting thing about the Warriors is they get credit 0:14:18.840 --> 0:14:20.880 for having the death lineup and they do the difference 0:14:20.920 --> 0:14:25.000 in their death lineup is that their center becomes Draymond Green, 0:14:25.120 --> 0:14:29.040 but they still have a rim protector in Kevin Durant. Now, look, 0:14:29.120 --> 0:14:31.760 Durant hasn't started year playing great defense and then took 0:14:31.800 --> 0:14:34.920 a good portion of the year off of playing defense. Reinvigorate, 0:14:35.000 --> 0:14:37.840 they need Draymond hit shots the mean, Andrea Goo Dolla 0:14:37.880 --> 0:14:40.160 to hit shots, and they need Kevin Durant not just 0:14:40.240 --> 0:14:44.160 make shots, but also defend the rim. I like the 0:14:44.200 --> 0:14:46.440 Golden State Warriors a little bit more, you know, like 0:14:46.560 --> 0:14:50.240 look in the individual matchups if you can, and they 0:14:50.320 --> 0:14:52.960 do a great job of forcing switches. But you know, 0:14:53.080 --> 0:14:58.200 I like the matchup of Clay versus h versus James 0:14:58.280 --> 0:15:01.680 Harden Steph curious. I don't know how his way, but 0:15:01.800 --> 0:15:05.160 he's definitely dominated Chris Paul in one on one matchups. 0:15:05.240 --> 0:15:08.800 And then who's the who's the other guy? If you will. 0:15:09.520 --> 0:15:12.360 For the Houston Rockets, that's gonna match up with Kevin Durant. 0:15:12.440 --> 0:15:16.040 I don't love their matchups. Again, it's dependent upon Draymond 0:15:16.400 --> 0:15:21.640 and Andrea Guadala two um to make shots to keep 0:15:21.680 --> 0:15:24.320 that floor spread. But I do think that this matchup 0:15:24.360 --> 0:15:27.400 favors the Golden State Warriors. As for the other matchup, 0:15:28.520 --> 0:15:31.440 I look, I think that the two elements that are 0:15:31.520 --> 0:15:35.280 going to allow the Boston Celtics to be closer than 0:15:35.440 --> 0:15:38.120 say the Toronto Raptors, is that they can throw multiple 0:15:38.200 --> 0:15:41.560 defenders at Lebron. The problem with those defenders are with 0:15:41.600 --> 0:15:43.800 the exception of their big guy. You know, look Morris 0:15:44.480 --> 0:15:47.440 and Al Horford, the can guard him some in the 0:15:47.560 --> 0:15:50.680 post um and so he can't play bullyball when they 0:15:50.720 --> 0:15:56.960 go small. Secondarily, you have Jalen Brown, you have Jayson Tatum, 0:15:57.000 --> 0:16:00.480 but they're so young. I just I don't love matchup. 0:16:00.560 --> 0:16:02.880 Now here's the part, the other part that allows the Celtics. 0:16:03.320 --> 0:16:07.320 I think a Chance Rosier off the bounds, Jalen Brown 0:16:07.400 --> 0:16:10.280 off the bounds. Like those guys they have even a 0:16:10.360 --> 0:16:13.680 Marcus Smarty doesn't always hit shots. They have an extra 0:16:13.800 --> 0:16:19.200 gear that Cleveland defensively doesn't really have. And if Brad, 0:16:19.280 --> 0:16:21.880 which I think he'll do, can expose Kyle Kover as 0:16:21.920 --> 0:16:25.680 a mismatch or Kevin Love as a mismatch and attack them, 0:16:25.840 --> 0:16:29.920 attack George Hill against some quicker, more athletic perimeter players 0:16:30.560 --> 0:16:33.160 like I think you've got a real chance of seeing 0:16:33.920 --> 0:16:36.800 at least a longer series. Still favorite the Calves. It's 0:16:36.840 --> 0:16:39.600 not just because of Lebron. It's because this team is 0:16:39.720 --> 0:16:42.360 a bunch of shooters around Lebron that have hybrid defensive 0:16:42.400 --> 0:16:45.040 players that are just good enough. But they'll have a 0:16:45.080 --> 0:16:46.880 game or two in which they blow out the Celtics. 0:16:46.960 --> 0:16:48.680 I think the Celtics a winner game or two based 0:16:48.720 --> 0:16:51.040 on speed and athleticism. And then do you have Lebron 0:16:51.120 --> 0:16:54.000 who you feel I can carry a team, although you know, 0:16:54.200 --> 0:16:56.680 look he didn't shoot the vowel from three against Toronto 0:16:57.400 --> 0:17:01.680 and they were outscored on agg aggregate by the Indiana Pacers. 0:17:01.800 --> 0:17:03.880 I think the series is closer than people think, but 0:17:04.000 --> 0:17:07.639 I still think we'll have Calves and Warriors in the files. 0:17:13.160 --> 0:17:15.880 David Griffin joins the show. He was famously the general 0:17:15.960 --> 0:17:20.679 manager of the of the Cleveland Cavaliers Last and Uh. 0:17:20.760 --> 0:17:22.480 He has his own show on Serious x M and 0:17:22.600 --> 0:17:25.159 NBA also on NBA TV. He joined us in the 0:17:25.200 --> 0:17:27.480 Doug Gottliev Show. I knew everybody has you on to 0:17:27.520 --> 0:17:29.159 talk Lebron and the Calves. I want to ask you 0:17:29.200 --> 0:17:33.720 about the Sixers. Uh. There are some in in your business, 0:17:33.880 --> 0:17:36.040 some in my business, and some in the basketball business. 0:17:36.080 --> 0:17:38.880 I think, hey, go out adda Paul George, go out 0:17:38.920 --> 0:17:42.080 and add stars. I kind of think they're on the 0:17:42.200 --> 0:17:44.800 right path. I think this is good that they didn't 0:17:44.880 --> 0:17:47.480 use faults. He wasn't ready yet, but eventually he'll be good. 0:17:47.960 --> 0:17:50.760 I'm not saying that you don't add more pieces, but 0:17:50.880 --> 0:17:53.520 I think this should be your core for a decade. 0:17:53.560 --> 0:17:55.760 You don't want to screw that thing up. Do you 0:17:55.840 --> 0:17:57.320 try and win the short term or you try and 0:17:57.320 --> 0:17:59.280 win the long term? If you're the general manager of 0:17:59.320 --> 0:18:01.840 the Sixers, David Well, I guess, I guess it just 0:18:01.960 --> 0:18:04.359 depends on how you know what you think long and 0:18:04.520 --> 0:18:06.639 short term is. So like, if you can say that 0:18:06.760 --> 0:18:09.400 Lebron is gonna play at an elite level for let's 0:18:09.400 --> 0:18:12.960 say five more years, I'd love to have the young 0:18:13.080 --> 0:18:16.400 kids learned from someone like that, you know, I'd love 0:18:16.440 --> 0:18:19.480 for him to raise the next generation of elite talent 0:18:19.640 --> 0:18:23.240 in your organization. So there's no downside to that. It's 0:18:23.280 --> 0:18:25.720 not like they need to jettison any of the other 0:18:25.840 --> 0:18:29.800 talent they have um relative to the Paul George piece, 0:18:29.840 --> 0:18:32.280 I don't think that's terribly likely. It sounds like Paul 0:18:32.359 --> 0:18:34.840 if he leaves, okay, So he's pretty much got his 0:18:34.920 --> 0:18:37.560 heart set on l a Um. What I think is 0:18:37.600 --> 0:18:41.280 interesting is would you break up that nucleus to bring 0:18:41.359 --> 0:18:44.520 into somebody's because that's really the only way you're going 0:18:44.640 --> 0:18:47.800 to attract, you know, those elite guys as they tend 0:18:47.880 --> 0:18:50.880 to want to to be together. So would you break 0:18:50.960 --> 0:18:54.320 up that group to have Kauai and Lebron? I don't. 0:18:54.400 --> 0:18:56.200 I don't know if you would or wouldn't, but I 0:18:56.320 --> 0:18:59.080 think that's what it requires. Now. It's not just we 0:18:59.240 --> 0:19:01.960 have the caps for one superstar. Those guys tend to 0:19:02.000 --> 0:19:06.480 want to be together, would you you know, I don't know, 0:19:06.920 --> 0:19:09.200 To be honest with you, I really don't. It's hard 0:19:09.240 --> 0:19:11.920 for me not holding the cards they're holding. I don't 0:19:11.920 --> 0:19:14.600 know exactly what they're thinking about the group they have. 0:19:15.280 --> 0:19:17.119 The thing that I thought they ran into in the 0:19:17.160 --> 0:19:22.480 playoffs that was tough Doug was Ben can't shoot, and 0:19:23.160 --> 0:19:26.359 because he can't space the court, and because the paint 0:19:26.480 --> 0:19:29.920 is going to be occupied because Joel is an elite 0:19:30.080 --> 0:19:33.960 player himself and the defense is going to be pretty 0:19:34.119 --> 0:19:37.199 keenly aware of him and the paint, then the driving 0:19:37.320 --> 0:19:39.760 lanes that Ben would have to take advantage of, and 0:19:39.840 --> 0:19:41.840 it would allow for him to play to the full 0:19:41.880 --> 0:19:45.920 bandwidth of his path. Thing don't exist. So I think 0:19:45.960 --> 0:19:49.159 it's just really really difficult to say that that nucleus 0:19:49.320 --> 0:19:51.720 is going to be elite until you know, if Ben's 0:19:51.760 --> 0:19:54.399 gotten to the point where he can shoot um, and 0:19:54.560 --> 0:19:58.960 that's that's always away and Mark l folks might be 0:19:59.040 --> 0:20:01.280 a ways away from being able to be elite. So 0:20:02.600 --> 0:20:05.159 I think you could make a pretty compelling argument if 0:20:05.200 --> 0:20:08.680 you could get Lebron, you should, But again, I don't 0:20:08.840 --> 0:20:11.080 know what they're looking at. That's that's that was actually 0:20:11.480 --> 0:20:14.399 I said. The only the only guy I would probably 0:20:14.480 --> 0:20:17.120 move out and for would be Lebron James. The one 0:20:17.200 --> 0:20:19.200 caveat with Lebron is he's now at the state of 0:20:19.280 --> 0:20:22.159 his career where he doesn't practice. You know, he does 0:20:22.240 --> 0:20:24.200 work in his game and his body, but he it 0:20:24.200 --> 0:20:27.879 ain't practicing. And I do think that, you know, culture wise, 0:20:28.240 --> 0:20:30.360 those young guys, I mean, Ben sim has got there's 0:20:30.359 --> 0:20:31.760 a lot of work to do, a lot of work 0:20:31.840 --> 0:20:35.760 to put in, and I think and Bead has to 0:20:35.840 --> 0:20:39.760 learn the game situations. You know what what winning shots 0:20:39.840 --> 0:20:42.280 look like, winning plays look like, and I think you 0:20:42.400 --> 0:20:45.080 only learned that over time and actually playing in big games. 0:20:45.160 --> 0:20:47.159 I hope he learned a lot from the series. I 0:20:47.200 --> 0:20:48.919 don't know. I just I think it's gonna be fasting 0:20:48.960 --> 0:20:51.800 to see what they do because they got a chance 0:20:51.840 --> 0:20:54.560 to do something special. But there have been other teams 0:20:54.600 --> 0:20:57.479 that have been in this situation and they've screwed it up, 0:20:57.560 --> 0:20:59.879 whether even even if they didn't try to, they screwed 0:21:00.119 --> 0:21:02.240 and haven't been able to as opposed to what Boston 0:21:02.320 --> 0:21:05.080 has done, which feels like they've been building for the 0:21:05.160 --> 0:21:07.399 long term and the short term thing has just happened 0:21:07.400 --> 0:21:10.320 in the meantime. Yeah, I agree with that, and I 0:21:10.440 --> 0:21:12.800 think it makes it even harder to be excited about 0:21:13.200 --> 0:21:16.000 your long term term nucleus when you're looking at the 0:21:16.080 --> 0:21:19.679 fact that Boston's as good as they are, they're as 0:21:19.760 --> 0:21:22.000