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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Under a tree, shielded from

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Speaker 1: rain and shadowed from view, is a small heart shaped marker.

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Speaker 1: Detective Morris Knicks knows the spot well, along with every

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Speaker 1: detail of this little girl's brutal death. How do you

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Speaker 1: do something? Every detail except who killed Deborah Lynn Randall,

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Speaker 1: who was a beautiful kid. You can look at a

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Speaker 1: picture and you can say the innocence. Detective Nicks is

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Speaker 1: part of a rare group of retired police officers who

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Speaker 1: specialize in solving Cobb Counties cold cases. And every one

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Speaker 1: of them is familiar with Debbie's face and her case.

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Speaker 1: Fiam Debora Lyn Randall from January A third grade little girl?

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Speaker 1: Can you imagine that? Is there anything sweeter? A third

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Speaker 1: grade little girl goes missing? Then the worst her body found,

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Speaker 1: her killer, her rapist and killer has never been brought

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Speaker 1: to justice. But there is one man who is unrelenting

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Speaker 1: and solving the case of Debbie Randall, and he's joining

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Speaker 1: us now. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank

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Speaker 1: you for being with us. It was a beautiful, balmy

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Speaker 1: evening when Debbie Randall, a beautiful little girl who loved

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Speaker 1: Barbie Dolls, her friends, baby dolls, cheerleadings. She went that

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Speaker 1: evening to SuDS and Duds, a laundry matt close to

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Speaker 1: her home. When she left that evening, she was never

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Speaker 1: seen again. Take a listen to what an eyewitness says

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Speaker 1: who comes forward years later, Santra, what made you decide

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Speaker 1: to come forward this much later? My sister worst were

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Speaker 1: Cobb County, Gale, and she told me the case had

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Speaker 1: been reopened. And I thought it had been closed all

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Speaker 1: a long time ago. And I told her I saw

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Speaker 1: it happened. And she said, well, somebody might be calling

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Speaker 1: union in touch with you and I said okay. And

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Speaker 1: that's when she was talking to a detective And I

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Speaker 1: called her one day and she said, well, this is

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Speaker 1: going to this and she put him on the phone

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Speaker 1: and he asked me if I would be willing to

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Speaker 1: talk to detective next and from their own as as

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Speaker 1: just connection to you, Santra, I know it was a

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Speaker 1: while back, but please put your mind back to the

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Speaker 1: evening Debbie disappeared. What did you observe lady might get

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Speaker 1: her where they thought they got hurt. There was like

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Speaker 1: a playground that was behind the laundromat and also a

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Speaker 1: place there where you would go and get Line Morris

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Speaker 1: to cut people's grass. And there was a trade right

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Speaker 1: there beside the logger matt where there was no windows

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Speaker 1: or anything on the side. I've seen this black pickup

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Speaker 1: truck stop. The driver got out. Let this door open,

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Speaker 1: Let the truck running. He ran. He went over to Debby.

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Speaker 1: He grabbed her and she was kicking her feet and kicking,

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Speaker 1: kicking real hard and screaming and yelling. And he had

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Speaker 1: had her over his shoulder, so she was screaming and kicking.

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Speaker 1: He threw her in the truck and then he almost

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Speaker 1: ran over me. What did the truck look like? All

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Speaker 1: I know is that it was a black truck because

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Speaker 1: I was twelve years old. But I can remember it

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Speaker 1: like it was yesterday. I've had nightmares about it. Ever,

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Speaker 1: what did he look like? He was a white man,

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Speaker 1: and I was maybe a hundred forty ft to eighty

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Speaker 1: feet from him, so I couldn't tell you what he

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Speaker 1: looked like, but I and I could tell he was white.

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Speaker 1: And do you recall what he had on? He had

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Speaker 1: a pants and shirt, but I, I mean, I don't

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Speaker 1: other than that, I just looked long pants and a shirt.

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Speaker 1: And I remember because um, I looked at somebody that

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Speaker 1: was walking with me. I said, did you just say that?

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Speaker 1: And when I heard her screaming yell, and I said, oh,

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Speaker 1: somebody has done got in trouble. And I mean he

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Speaker 1: almost like I said, he I must have fell because

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Speaker 1: I got up. Was when I did. I accustomed as

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Speaker 1: he went by me, but he went out. Did you

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Speaker 1: think that was her father? I didn't know. I just

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Speaker 1: thought it was. I didn't know because I didn't know

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Speaker 1: Bebbie myself. I had not had had met her or

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Speaker 1: anything like that. Is the way I found out about

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Speaker 1: it was the next day. I had went to the

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Speaker 1: little store that was in the marryat a place and

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Speaker 1: her brother was ending out flyers asking if anybody had

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Speaker 1: seen anything or hurt anything. And back then I told

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Speaker 1: him that I would talk to somebody because there was

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Speaker 1: no other way he would have been able to get

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Speaker 1: out except to go if he I lived on Fourth Street,

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Speaker 1: and if he went around Fourth Street, he would still

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Speaker 1: hit further on street. If he had went straight, he

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Speaker 1: would hit further on street. I had another girl with

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Speaker 1: me is because we were taking her clothes to the

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Speaker 1: launder back and I mean, I don't I don't know

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Speaker 1: what happened was her because back then seeing that the

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Speaker 1: keptas says, she was just I don't know, I don't know,

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Speaker 1: you know, I don't know what was going on with her.

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Speaker 1: But when I saw her later on, and I mean,

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Speaker 1: she had turned into an alcoholic, So you know, that's

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Speaker 1: been thirty years ago at the time. Did you ever

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Speaker 1: get to talk to police because that just came to

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Speaker 1: my house when I lived on Fourth Street, and that

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Speaker 1: was the last thing I heard anything. I mean, did

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Speaker 1: you speak to them from there on? I didn't hear

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Speaker 1: anything else. Did you tell the detectives what you saw? Yes?

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Speaker 1: And that was then and then you never heard anything

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Speaker 1: else about it. Joining us right now, the man who

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Speaker 1: has never let go of the Debbie Randall case, and

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Speaker 1: our expert who says, now with DNA advances, there's a

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Speaker 1: chance to catch her killer once and for all. With

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Speaker 1: me right now, renowned detective Detective Morris Nicks, who has

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Speaker 1: been working the Debbie Randall case since the beginning. Also

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Speaker 1: with me, the director of the Cold Case Research Institute,

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Speaker 1: Cheryl McCullum joining me from l A. Alan Duke. Detective Nicks,

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Speaker 1: thank you for being with us, Detective. It means so

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Speaker 1: much to us, and I know to you to find

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Speaker 1: Debbie's killer, and I want to start at the very

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Speaker 1: very beginning. Tell us what happened to your knowledge that

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Speaker 1: evening Debbie went missing? Okay, naturally I had a couple

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Speaker 1: of series. One is that it was a random abduction.

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Speaker 1: Of course, too is yet he knew her. I've agonized

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Speaker 1: over this, for the abduction actually occurd would have been

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Speaker 1: directly across the street and where she lived. I don't

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Speaker 1: think whoever did this would have done it had he

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Speaker 1: known the family directed in front of the house. But

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Speaker 1: then again, being a crown with opportunities may have been

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Speaker 1: his best and owned chance. I'm kind of starting to

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Speaker 1: lean I don't know why that somehow the family knew

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Speaker 1: this pushing. Maybe not intimately, but they were acquainted with him.

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Speaker 1: If not, then he was someone that would have pointed

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Speaker 1: into the neighborhood. This was a neighborhood where everybody knew everybody,

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Speaker 1: as you know, nanswer, that's where neighborhoods are. So those

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Speaker 1: are the two theories that I've really wrestle with. But

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Speaker 1: right now I kind of leaned toward the fact that

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Speaker 1: he knew Deppy. Let me clarify Sean McCollum, we have been,

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Speaker 1: of course watching carefully and stud being and investigating the

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Speaker 1: case of Molly Tibbitts murder, and cops said at the

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Speaker 1: get go, as did we. In a town that's small

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Speaker 1: of Brooklyn, Iowa, two thousand people, Max, it had to

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Speaker 1: be I thought somebody from within that town. Now, of course,

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Speaker 1: there are always cases like Shasta and Dylan Gronie in Cordeline, Idaho,

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Speaker 1: who lived out in the middle of a rural area

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Speaker 1: and this perv comes along the interstate and spots Shasta

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Speaker 1: at an above ground pool and decides to pull off

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Speaker 1: the interstate and kill her whole family and take her

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Speaker 1: and her brother. It does happen, but it's rare. So

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Speaker 1: we've always thought the person was someone the Tibbets family knew. Well,

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Speaker 1: it's somebody they knew of. It was a local that

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Speaker 1: worked on a farm that was in and out of

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Speaker 1: the local seven eleven and the grocery store and the

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Speaker 1: dairy queen and the McDonald's. They didn't know each other

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Speaker 1: by name, but they knew each other by sight, and

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Speaker 1: that could very well be true in Debbie Randall's case.

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Speaker 1: Cheryl definitely and you know, in the seventies, Nathy, Cobb

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Speaker 1: County was not considered part of it. To Atlanta, Harts

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Speaker 1: were extraordinarily rural. So this does seem to me like

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Speaker 1: a crime of opportunity. I think he was aware of

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Speaker 1: the laundrymat and perhaps the playground, and the way the

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Speaker 1: witness describes him pulling up, leaving the car running, the

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Speaker 1: truck running in the door open. He had a he

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Speaker 1: had a target. He grabbed her and gone. But if

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Speaker 1: trucks and Cobb County in the seventies would have blended

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Speaker 1: in beautifully, Detective Nicks, Cheryl, listen to this. Debbie was

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Speaker 1: nine years old when she vanished. It's been more than

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Speaker 1: forty three years, and still her death remains a mystery.

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Speaker 1: Her big brother remembers it vividly, remember that day, totally,

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Speaker 1: remember going to everybody's house at evening, you know, looking

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Speaker 1: for For the next sixteen days, Debbie's disappearance made national headlines.

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Speaker 1: There were hundreds of people looking for this little girl. Then,

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Speaker 1: on a rainy evening at dusk, Debbie was found dead,

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Speaker 1: lying face down, wearing the long sleeved lavender dress she

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Speaker 1: wore to school for the day. She was kidnapped, raped

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Speaker 1: and murdered. He was nine years old when she vanished.

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Speaker 1: It's been more than forty three years and still her

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Speaker 1: death remains a mystery. Her big brother remembers it vividly,

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Speaker 1: remember that nay to remember going to everybody's house, Eddie,

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Speaker 1: you know, looking for For the next sixteen days, Debbie's

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Speaker 1: disappearance made national headlines. There were hundreds of people looking

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Speaker 1: for this little girl. Then on a rainy evening at dusk,

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Speaker 1: Debbie was found dead, lying face down, wearing the long

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Speaker 1: sleeved lavender dress she wore to school the day she

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Speaker 1: was kidnapped, raped and murdered. What happened to Debbie Randall

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Speaker 1: when her body was finally found, Many detectives say it

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Speaker 1: was the worst crime scene they had ever seen. With me,

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Speaker 1: Detective Morris Nicks, who has never let go of the case.

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Speaker 1: Also with me, the director of the Cold Case Research Institute,

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Speaker 1: Cheryl McCullum joining me from l A. Alan Duke. Detective Nicks,

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Speaker 1: we we got off on a tangent regarding theories and possibilities,

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Speaker 1: but I want to go back to the facts. That's

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Speaker 1: how every case is solved. So aren't at the beginning

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Speaker 1: the evening, Debbie is kidnapped. Okay, nay. Debbie had gone

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Speaker 1: to the laundry mat with her step bab and uh

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Speaker 1: he gave her some change, put into the machine to

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Speaker 1: the laundry and Debbie would collect the unused soap powders.

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Speaker 1: So she got soap powders, put them in a box

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Speaker 1: and she started out the door. And okay, wait a minute,

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Speaker 1: what does that mean? What does that mean? Collect the

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Speaker 1: unused soap powders? And I know all about the laundry match,

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Speaker 1: Sheryl McCullum. You know, for a long time we didn't

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Speaker 1: have a washer or dryer, and every Sunday before we

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Speaker 1: go to Sunday evening services, we go by the laundry

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Speaker 1: mat first and put in all the laundry and go

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Speaker 1: to church, then come back and get it that evening. Now,

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Speaker 1: there's no way you'd leave your laundry because you know

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Speaker 1: somebody would either steal it or take it and throw

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Speaker 1: it down, and you have to start all over anyway,

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Speaker 1: what do you mean she collects soap? What did you

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Speaker 1: say she collected soap collector? She was if anybody left

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Speaker 1: any a new soap powders and a box or a

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Speaker 1: pack she would collect and oh, you mean like the

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Speaker 1: detergent should put it all together? And then oh, oh,

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Speaker 1: sweet little thing. Okay, Cheryl, that just I know somebody

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Speaker 1: fought like the little box of powders, the just individual laundry.

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Speaker 1: If they left them in that box, she ran around

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Speaker 1: and connecting all of it so they would have more

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Speaker 1: detergent for next time. Correct, poor little thing. You know,

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Speaker 1: I thought I was the only one left that would

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Speaker 1: take home a doggy bag or or take the leftovers,

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Speaker 1: or you know, poured the little bit of the catchup

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Speaker 1: and then you catch up bottle. Oh man, just breaks

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Speaker 1: my heart, little thing trying to save money for her family. Okay,

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Speaker 1: go ahead, back back to that. This is how you know,

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Speaker 1: This is how we go off on tangent people, things

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Speaker 1: just like this, the swoop powders. All right, office powders,

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Speaker 1: it's my fault. Okay, back onto Debbie Randle that evening

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Speaker 1: she's at the laundry man, And I'm glad you clarified

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Speaker 1: the stepfather left. Am I happy he left? No, because

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Speaker 1: maybe if he had stayed, this wouldn't have happened. But

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Speaker 1: on the other hand, it's also exonerates him. He was

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Speaker 1: not there so and it's right across the street from

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Speaker 1: their home, right. Uh. Well, he took took a lot

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Speaker 1: of criticism over him leaving, but at that time that

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Speaker 1: it's just not the world that it is today. Um. Anyway,

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Speaker 1: she collected the soap powder, and it's relevant because the

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Speaker 1: detectives found the box of soap powders on the ground

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Speaker 1: and they had been scattered. And I've studied these photos

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Speaker 1: over and over and over again trying to look and

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Speaker 1: see if perhaps she slung them behind her and he

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Speaker 1: was a duck to her at a different point, or

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Speaker 1: if she just dropped. But we actually have the box

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Speaker 1: of chaps powders or box and evidence today. So she

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Speaker 1: walked out the door and one of the witnesses, one

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Speaker 1: of her playmates, was gonna go with and they were

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Speaker 1: gonna go play dollars at Debby's, which was directed the street,

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Speaker 1: and her older sister said, no, you're not going eitherhere.

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Speaker 1: You're gonna stay here, gonna help me. Oh close, she said,

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Speaker 1: I saw Debby go out the door and start towards

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Speaker 1: her house. She said, I think someone called her back

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Speaker 1: over to where they were at and her knowing them,

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Speaker 1: she went toward towards the truck, and of course we

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Speaker 1: got the eye. Witnesses said he grabbed her right there

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Speaker 1: at the truck. The so detergent where that where that

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Speaker 1: was found a significant and he abducts her. Uh, he

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Speaker 1: takes her. There's three points of interest in this case.

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Speaker 1: Where she was abducted, where she was salting, where she

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Speaker 1: was left. So he takes her to a place we

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Speaker 1: believe of Palace Foy Road. Um did she casting stone?

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Speaker 1: And he brutally assaults s Um. The medical examiner said

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Speaker 1: that she were bled to death. We think that he

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Speaker 1: used the foreign object. He redresses the buy me, takes

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Speaker 1: the body oh less than a quarter mile on Powlish

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Speaker 1: Boy Road, stops and puts the body in the woods.

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Speaker 1: So we know that she was breathing profusely. And I

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Speaker 1: wonder if maybe she was messing his truck up so

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Speaker 1: he just stops and get rid of the body, or

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Speaker 1: if perhaps he realized she wasn't litting and he stopped

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Speaker 1: the truck. I don't know, I've said before, in some reason,

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Speaker 1: I just think he was hindered to jetter you river.

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Speaker 1: I don't know why I feel that way, but it

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Speaker 1: was a straight shot. At the time, this was a

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Speaker 1: very rural area. There were no apartment buildings at that time.

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Speaker 1: Nothing really. Where he left the body was the former

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Speaker 1: parking lot of the Houston's restaurant. But he abducts her,

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Speaker 1: he takes her to a different location. Assaults are relesses

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Speaker 1: the body and then moved somebody. I think he had

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Speaker 1: to move the body. He could not leave the body

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Speaker 1: there because people there knew he I think he he

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Speaker 1: he was an employee there. I just believe it. Um

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Speaker 1: you mean an employee at Dixie cast and Stone Correction.

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Speaker 1: If you have any listening to anyone Dixie Cassy Stone

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Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy two on Powerish Fool, please please contact

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Speaker 1: to Cheryl McCollum joining us. I think there are a

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Speaker 1: lot of big clues. Number one, I've been listening intently

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Speaker 1: to what former COB investigator Mars Dix was saying. A

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Speaker 1: big clue is that someone called her apparently called her

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Speaker 1: over to the truck. Did they call her by name

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Speaker 1: or did they say, hey, little girl, come here. I mean,

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Speaker 1: because that works too. Uh. The location is extremely important

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Speaker 1: where we think the assault took place. Number one. Number two,

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Speaker 1: he readdresses the body number four. The body was then

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Speaker 1: dumped in the woods. And the location where a body

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Speaker 1: is dumped, where the crime takes place is extremely important,

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Speaker 1: especially where the body is dune. We've talked about a

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Speaker 1: million times. I'll talk about it again. For instance, Scott

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Speaker 1: Peterson dumps Lacy's body in the San Francisco Bay. Why

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Speaker 1: he's comfortable there. That's where he goes fishing. He's a fisherman,

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Speaker 1: so he goes to where he is familiar. Same thing.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you can look and look and look. It

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Speaker 1: happens every time. Uh. This last, I'll bring back up

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Speaker 1: Molly Tibbitts. This guy Rivera, accused of murdering Molly, lived

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Speaker 1: about four miles from where Molly went missing. He drove

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Speaker 1: by the disposal site where he dumped her body every

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Speaker 1: single day. This is the place he knew of, where

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Speaker 1: he was familiar. If you look at crimes, that is

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Speaker 1: a pattern you can almost always count on. So um

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Speaker 1: in this case, we find her body in the woods.

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Speaker 1: Little Debbie Round, a third grade girl. It had to

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Speaker 1: be someone familiar with that spot. And last for you

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Speaker 1: to evaluate Sheryl McCullum Dixie cast in Stone. If he

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Speaker 1: worked there, if somebody he knew weren't there, if he

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Speaker 1: had ever worked there, if he was a salesperson that

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Speaker 1: called on that that location. You know, fibers, soil materials

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Speaker 1: such as that they did not have surveillance video can

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Speaker 1: be used in an investigation. Now, those are a few

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Speaker 1: ideas I want you to analyze. Cheryl McCullum, Cheryl, but

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Speaker 1: free answer that. Take a Listen to our friend at

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Speaker 1: CBS forty six. This is Melinda Rhotor. I just remember

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Speaker 1: doing a lot of crime as time ticked on. The

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Speaker 1: case took many twists and turns. Every new lead brought hope,

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Speaker 1: followed by disappointment for the Randall family, but never any answers.

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Speaker 1: You try to forget about, but you won't. Never forget

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Speaker 1: about it. Detectives now have a short list of suspects

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Speaker 1: that they hope to narrow down to just one. In

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Speaker 1: the meantime, Debbie's family believes someone may have information to

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Speaker 1: help them crack the case. Please tell them has been

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Speaker 1: to all. We are talking about a beautiful third grade

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Speaker 1: little girl, Debbie Lynn Randall, just nine years old. I

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Speaker 1: can remember the twins at nine. They believe in Santa

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Speaker 1: Claus the tooth Fairy, the Easter Bunny still comes. This

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Speaker 1: is the world that little Debbie Randall lived in when

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Speaker 1: she was kidnapped outside a laundry matt right across from

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Speaker 1: her home. The box of detergent dropped right where she

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Speaker 1: was taken. Her little nine year old body was found

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Speaker 1: horribly abused with a foreign object. She was bleeding profusely.

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Speaker 1: Her body dumped in the woods. It's a cold case now,

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Speaker 1: but one man has not given up. Detective Morris Nicks

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Speaker 1: and joining me very well known DNA expert, the director

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Speaker 1: of the Cold Case Research Institute, Cheryl McCullum also with me,

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Speaker 1: Alan Duke. Cheryl analyzed what we know so far and

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Speaker 1: why do you think there's a chance that with new

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Speaker 1: DNA breakthroughs we may be able to identify by her killer.

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Speaker 1: He grabbed her and put her in the truck. He

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Speaker 1: forcibly then attacked her, which means he grabbed her and

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Speaker 1: touched her clothing repeatedly. Then he takes the time to

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Speaker 1: dress her back. So you're talking about touch DNA all

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Speaker 1: over her clothing. So at this point Detective Meet has

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Speaker 1: an opportunity to try the impact, which you know is

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Speaker 1: the latest and greatest technology to extract. Okay, hold on, Cheryl, Cheryl,

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Speaker 1: don't rub it in. But the other day you and

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Speaker 1: I were on a televised press conference with Sean gre

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Speaker 1: Levi's mother, and I have a bone to pick with you,

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Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum. You let me say, h VAC the whole

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Speaker 1: way through the entire thing. H VAC the thing that

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Speaker 1: you do, you know, suck up water and dirt in

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Speaker 1: your garage. It's in fact, Emmazon mother, thank you Cheryl

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Speaker 1: McCollum for letting me make a complete each out of myself.

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Speaker 1: Yet again, it's in fact now before you just sling

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Speaker 1: out all these all these terms, explain to everybody what

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Speaker 1: is an impact on what is so incredible about it?

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Speaker 1: Most departments, mine included, we use a swabby to try

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Speaker 1: to collect DNA, which looks like it's Q tip, and

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Speaker 1: so you just run around something, but you miss so

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Speaker 1: much doing it that way. The impact looks like a

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Speaker 1: very small, no bigger than a you know, small fish

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Speaker 1: tank that looks like you're doing um seem cleaning on

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Speaker 1: the carpet, And what it does is pushes the chemicals

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Speaker 1: down into the item and then it sucks it right

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Speaker 1: back up and it collects all the DNA perfectly, and

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Speaker 1: I mean all the DNA, and it's the best tool

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Speaker 1: we have right now on cold cases period. In the stories,

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Speaker 1: I cannot say enough about it, and the fact that

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Speaker 1: this is killer took such time to her and touched

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Speaker 1: her clothing multiple times because again he had to grab her,

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Speaker 1: he had to fight her, he had the controller. He

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Speaker 1: undressed her, then he redressed her, then he had to

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Speaker 1: get her out of the car, and then again grabbing

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Speaker 1: her clothing, leaving the touch DNA um to take the

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Speaker 1: Mick has a wonderful opportunity to get evidence of who

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Speaker 1: this person is. So Detective Nicks, I want to go, Cheryl.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna follow up with you in a second, but

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Speaker 1: I want to. I want to go through how her body,

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Speaker 1: How Debbie's body was found. I don't necessary, I don't

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Speaker 1: think it's true this time, but very often the person

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Speaker 1: that's involved, the team that's involved with finding the body,

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Speaker 1: they're all looked at as well as potential suspects. But

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Speaker 1: tell me how her body was found. A group of

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Speaker 1: fraternity guys are Southern Tech volunteered so just as many

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Speaker 1: people did, and they were the group for assigned scenario

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Speaker 1: and this was there. And the guy who from David,

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Speaker 1: Mike and Mike was a Vietnam bed distinguished Vietnam bit

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Speaker 1: and he told me, he said, I was walked down

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Speaker 1: the side of the road and I immediately noticed what

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00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:16,159
Speaker 1: looked like blag points and he said, so I followed it,

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Speaker 1: and he said he got down there and saw her

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Speaker 1: feet and he said, I stopped. I didn't want to

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Speaker 1: look at it, and so he went back and noticied

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Speaker 1: some anyone. Oh man, you know what, Cheryl. You know,

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Speaker 1: I don't even know how many people have asked me,

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Speaker 1: but I can tell you how many cases I prosecuted,

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Speaker 1: took to trial, investigated, uh pled, had hearings. I know

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Speaker 1: it's a fantastical number, Cheryl, but you know, a hundred

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Speaker 1: new felonies a week at the minimum when you're running

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Speaker 1: a courtroom for the state is uh an inner city Atlanta, UM,

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Speaker 1: that would be four hundred a month. Times twelve is

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Speaker 1: four and you know you added up times ten years,

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Speaker 1: that's a lot of cases. And I would actually dream

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Speaker 1: about finding dead bodies, and it was always not a

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Speaker 1: good thing in the dream. It wasn't like, ah, I

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Speaker 1: found evidence. It was horrible when you come upon a

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Speaker 1: dead body. I always felt this sick feeling when I

401
00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:22,000
Speaker 1: would go to crime scenes, which I hid. But when

402
00:24:22,040 --> 00:24:24,199
Speaker 1: you come upon a dead body, it's a moment you

403
00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:30,200
Speaker 1: never forget, never especially one of a child, and especially

404
00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:34,360
Speaker 1: one of a child that has been brutalized. Um, your

405
00:24:34,359 --> 00:24:36,920
Speaker 1: mind can't even really wrap around what you're looking at.

406
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Speaker 1: And I think Detective Mix is on the right track

407
00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:43,240
Speaker 1: where he's concentrating on the company that he mentioned, But

408
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Speaker 1: I also think he needs to concentrate on women's that

409
00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:49,639
Speaker 1: are about fifty five. This is not the first child

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Speaker 1: this man has offered candy too. It's not the first

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Speaker 1: child in that area he approached. And if you can

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Speaker 1: somehow reach people that are having high school reunions or

413
00:24:58,359 --> 00:25:01,040
Speaker 1: whatever in that area, we need to ask other people

414
00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:04,359
Speaker 1: to the truck ever approach you. Does this composite look

415
00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:08,600
Speaker 1: like somebody you remember offering you candy or asking you

416
00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:11,879
Speaker 1: to look for a lost puppy. This person felt comfortable there,

417
00:25:12,359 --> 00:25:15,960
Speaker 1: This person knew that area. This person went to where

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Speaker 1: he knew nobody would see him. Nancy, you remember a

419
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Speaker 1: year ago Sandra came forward. We heard from her earlier

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Speaker 1: in the show. I thought it was interesting how she

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00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:30,360
Speaker 1: described why she came forward. Let's listen to that. Sandra,

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00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:33,760
Speaker 1: you said that over these years you have had one

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00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:38,080
Speaker 1: nightmare after the next about incident. What do you dream about?

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Speaker 1: I was a street kid back then, and uh, I

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Speaker 1: mean I was that year. I would have been thirteen

426
00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:47,800
Speaker 1: years old, but my life had been really turned upside down.

427
00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:50,920
Speaker 1: Was my mom and dad getting divorced. I was just mean.

428
00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:54,119
Speaker 1: I was just really really mean back then, I was.

429
00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:57,439
Speaker 1: I really wasn't mean, man. I mean, I thought about

430
00:25:57,480 --> 00:26:00,879
Speaker 1: this for forty four years, you know, and I always

431
00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:03,640
Speaker 1: wondered where she was buried at And Detective next told me,

432
00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:05,920
Speaker 1: And so I want to go out and her brave

433
00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:08,680
Speaker 1: and tell her I'm sorry, because if it had been

434
00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:11,080
Speaker 1: just a few minutes later, I had been both cider.

435
00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:14,560
Speaker 1: What is the bad dreaming have? It's this dream about

436
00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:18,640
Speaker 1: her and the things that she has had went through.

437
00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:22,359
Speaker 1: The man who's done it. I can't see his face,

438
00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:25,320
Speaker 1: but I can see him, you know, his face is

439
00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:28,439
Speaker 1: it's like his face is black, but I can't he

440
00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:31,000
Speaker 1: would have said, I wouldn't say he was skinny. He

441
00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:34,600
Speaker 1: was a medium built, maybe even a little bit chunky.

442
00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:38,760
Speaker 1: I couldn't tell because of the shirt. But it just um,

443
00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:41,240
Speaker 1: it's just about her. I mean, she was an angel

444
00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:44,600
Speaker 1: and it should not have happened for her. Detectives like

445
00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:49,080
Speaker 1: Morris next continue to dig for clues, praying their persistence

446
00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:53,280
Speaker 1: pays off if you're investigative for a detective, but through

447
00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:56,119
Speaker 1: a cop. That's what you loved for that phone called

448
00:26:56,119 --> 00:27:00,160
Speaker 1: that family saying, um, sitting down because invest some good

449
00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:03,119
Speaker 1: news for you. Welcome back, I Nancy Grayson. This is

450
00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:05,040
Speaker 1: Crime Stories, and I want to thank you again for

451
00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:08,960
Speaker 1: being with us. We are highlighting what's called a cold case,

452
00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:13,560
Speaker 1: but when you hear about the brutal, really the savage

453
00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:19,120
Speaker 1: attack on a nine year old little girl being attacked

454
00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:23,600
Speaker 1: with a foreign object, nearly bleeding to death because of

455
00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:27,680
Speaker 1: the attack, her body dumped in the woods like trash,

456
00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:32,159
Speaker 1: callously thrown away. Can you imagine that night, her parents

457
00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:35,480
Speaker 1: looking and looking and calling and calling and searching for her.

458
00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:41,919
Speaker 1: And it's only some days later that volunteers find her body.

459
00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:47,679
Speaker 1: What happened to Debbie Randall and has stumped police since

460
00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:50,640
Speaker 1: the time of the incident, But one detective has never

461
00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:53,800
Speaker 1: given up and he is joining us now. Detective Morris

462
00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:57,639
Speaker 1: Nis also with me Director of the Cold Case Research Institute,

463
00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:01,119
Speaker 1: Cheryl McCullum, and of course Alan you joining me from

464
00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:05,000
Speaker 1: l A Detective Nicks. You say you want to deliver

465
00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:08,800
Speaker 1: good news. I mean there is no good news when

466
00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:10,640
Speaker 1: it comes to the death of a little nine year

467
00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:15,800
Speaker 1: old girl. But what is your dream? You have now retired,

468
00:28:16,119 --> 00:28:19,520
Speaker 1: but you're still on the case. What is your dream?

469
00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:22,639
Speaker 1: I want justice for Babby. This is someone who is

470
00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:26,760
Speaker 1: not just a pedophile. He's a sadist. He's a co hearted,

471
00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:30,399
Speaker 1: black clotted sadist. I want to know who he is.

472
00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:33,080
Speaker 1: I want her, I want her family who he is.

473
00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:37,640
Speaker 1: For me, it's just bringing closure to the family. That's

474
00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:41,360
Speaker 1: pretty much it. Who is left of her family. Her

475
00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:44,520
Speaker 1: mom uh is still living and her dad is still living.

476
00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:49,720
Speaker 1: Both are in very poor health. And before she has

477
00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:53,520
Speaker 1: a couple of siblings that are living. And her mom

478
00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:55,600
Speaker 1: told me not long ago, she said, I want to

479
00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:59,120
Speaker 1: know what happened to my little Bold. And you know

480
00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:02,160
Speaker 1: that you you try to call an update the family,

481
00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:05,200
Speaker 1: and you know when they answering the phone, they're hoping

482
00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:09,880
Speaker 1: that you're gonna tell them something bitter sweet. And it's

483
00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:12,720
Speaker 1: painful sometimes to call these families because you know, the

484
00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:15,200
Speaker 1: first thing you've got to tell them is I don't

485
00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:23,440
Speaker 1: have any answers. It's it's painful, and that's just um.

486
00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:26,520
Speaker 1: I really want to bring closure. And I had a

487
00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:32,280
Speaker 1: dream not long ago that I wouldn't loser. And there

488
00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:35,080
Speaker 1: was a press conference and I offered twenty six million

489
00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:38,000
Speaker 1: dollars to know who did it because that was on

490
00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:43,680
Speaker 1: something been locking and I just totally irrational or anything,

491
00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:47,120
Speaker 1: but I just think, how well, just what a wonderful

492
00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:49,680
Speaker 1: day it would be if Wicky bring this to an end.

493
00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:54,320
Speaker 1: I gotta tell you something, Marice, what you just said,

494
00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:57,760
Speaker 1: it's actually bringing tears to my eyes. People that have

495
00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:00,520
Speaker 1: not been in the criminal justice sys where they've never

496
00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:04,160
Speaker 1: been a crime victim. It's so hard to explain. You

497
00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:09,920
Speaker 1: get attached to your cases. It those victims and their

498
00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:14,200
Speaker 1: families become part of your your life, part of the

499
00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:19,080
Speaker 1: fabric you're you're made from, you know, speaking of a dream, Cheryl,

500
00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:22,960
Speaker 1: One time I dreamed um I had moved to New

501
00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:25,160
Speaker 1: York to start a show with Johnny Cochrane. I had

502
00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:29,000
Speaker 1: left the District Attorney's office really only because my elected

503
00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:32,240
Speaker 1: district Attorney, Mr. Slayton was retiring and I did not

504
00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:34,840
Speaker 1: want to go be a defense lawyer, and I figured

505
00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:37,520
Speaker 1: the next day that got elected was going to fire

506
00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:40,200
Speaker 1: all the top litigators. And boy was I right about that.

507
00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:44,760
Speaker 1: But I remember someone said, hey, can we write your

508
00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:50,240
Speaker 1: life story? And of course was flattered. And that night

509
00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:53,000
Speaker 1: I had a dream. I dreamed I was in New

510
00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:56,080
Speaker 1: Orleans and I was sitting at a restaurant and they

511
00:30:56,120 --> 00:30:58,440
Speaker 1: had an open window, didn't have a pain on it,

512
00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:02,920
Speaker 1: and a big New Orleans funeral started going by with

513
00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:09,240
Speaker 1: you know, the horses and the black plumage, and along

514
00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:15,840
Speaker 1: came instead of a casket, one one carriage after the next,

515
00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:20,600
Speaker 1: full of all the victims I had ever represented in court.

516
00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:27,800
Speaker 1: And in this dream they were as I knew them, shot, stabbed, strangled, mangled, burned,

517
00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:32,200
Speaker 1: And I mean there was carriage after carriage after carriage

518
00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:35,200
Speaker 1: after carriage, and they were all looking at me. I'm like,

519
00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:40,560
Speaker 1: and I knew right then, I am not telling that story.

520
00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:43,400
Speaker 1: That's their story, not my story to tell. And I

521
00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:48,080
Speaker 1: turned the whole thing down. What I'm saying is it's

522
00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:50,920
Speaker 1: part of your fiber, it's part of your life. At

523
00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:54,240
Speaker 1: these cases means so much to you. And here is

524
00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:57,920
Speaker 1: Morris Nicks all these years later, dreaming he wins the

525
00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:02,080
Speaker 1: lottery and offering the whole thing to somebody to solve

526
00:32:02,520 --> 00:32:07,040
Speaker 1: Debbie Randall's murder, Cheryl, And he means it, Nancy, he

527
00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:10,160
Speaker 1: lives it. This is part of him. This will tell

528
00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:14,160
Speaker 1: you exactly what that man is about. And you can't

529
00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:16,520
Speaker 1: say enough good about him. But I'm gonna tell you something.

530
00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:20,200
Speaker 1: When he said he hates the call because he has

531
00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:23,200
Speaker 1: nothing new, let me tell you the reality. When that

532
00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:26,760
Speaker 1: mama picks up that phone, she knows that there is

533
00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:32,360
Speaker 1: somebody that still cares. There is somebody still working. There's

534
00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:36,480
Speaker 1: somebody still dedicating his life to find it out who

535
00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:40,320
Speaker 1: killed her child. And for that, there's no way to

536
00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:45,280
Speaker 1: thank you for Okay, It's true, Morris. And based on

537
00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:48,960
Speaker 1: Morris's investigation, this is what we know about the suspect.

538
00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:52,600
Speaker 1: He's a white male with a medium build. That evening

539
00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:55,280
Speaker 1: he wore long pants and a shirt. He drove a

540
00:32:55,360 --> 00:32:59,240
Speaker 1: black pickup truck. He may have taken Debbie to the

541
00:32:59,320 --> 00:33:05,200
Speaker 1: now cloth business Dixie Cast and Stone in Marietta, Georgia. Now,

542
00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:09,280
Speaker 1: there were many many day laborers who worked at Dixie

543
00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:13,440
Speaker 1: Casting Stone, possibly the suspect. He may have worked there

544
00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:17,640
Speaker 1: anywhere between nineteen sixty eight in nineteen seventy four or

545
00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:20,880
Speaker 1: called on the company. I've got a tip line for

546
00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:25,720
Speaker 1: you seven seven zero five to eight three zero three

547
00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:30,760
Speaker 1: to seven seven zero five to eight three zero three

548
00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:35,680
Speaker 1: two Morris. What is the status of DNA in Debbie's case?

549
00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:38,880
Speaker 1: We've got submitted from or DNA. We haven't gotten a

550
00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:43,360
Speaker 1: launch about yet. I'm hoping that we'll get something anything

551
00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:45,520
Speaker 1: out of that. And Nancy, I want to touch him

552
00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:47,680
Speaker 1: that quick too, that I'm assigned to a cold case

553
00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:51,800
Speaker 1: unit and I don't work along this. I'm surrounded by

554
00:33:51,840 --> 00:33:55,479
Speaker 1: some incredible people who worked very hard. Of course, you

555
00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:58,120
Speaker 1: know we've worked on a lot of other cases, Brad

556
00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:02,560
Speaker 1: Clements being one of them. M congratulations on that one.

557
00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:05,880
Speaker 1: Let me tell you something. Yeah, that's that's gonna be interesting.

558
00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:09,360
Speaker 1: I'm just part of I'm a very very small part

559
00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:13,080
Speaker 1: of a great unit. And uh, this is married at

560
00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:16,799
Speaker 1: the police spartment. Case Mayor of PD has stepped up

561
00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:19,399
Speaker 1: and said, of whatever you need from Musk was here

562
00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:22,359
Speaker 1: for you, and that makes it a lot easier. And

563
00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:25,520
Speaker 1: if I could touch on something really quick, is that

564
00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:28,960
Speaker 1: I've heard you talk about this so much. Some people

565
00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:31,600
Speaker 1: think they hand you a case, and you work that case,

566
00:34:31,680 --> 00:34:34,960
Speaker 1: and when that case is over, they hand you whenever. Well,

567
00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:37,480
Speaker 1: you and I know the reality of it. You know

568
00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:40,120
Speaker 1: you're locked. You come into work in your job bart

569
00:34:40,200 --> 00:34:42,239
Speaker 1: and you high five and they give a kin more

570
00:34:43,239 --> 00:34:45,239
Speaker 1: and next thing you know, your desk is covered up,

571
00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:48,600
Speaker 1: and then you're trying to allocate your time and then

572
00:34:48,680 --> 00:34:50,880
Speaker 1: people start calling the world what are you doing on

573
00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:56,880
Speaker 1: my case? So time is just it's such a factor

574
00:34:56,880 --> 00:35:00,719
Speaker 1: in cold cases. Time, having the money and getting the

575
00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:05,160
Speaker 1: publicity keep it out in front of people. But detectives

576
00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:09,600
Speaker 1: all over America, prosecutors all over America don't just get

577
00:35:09,719 --> 00:35:13,840
Speaker 1: a couple of cases. And unfortunately there's there's more crime

578
00:35:13,880 --> 00:35:17,239
Speaker 1: than the people to welcome, and so a lot of people,

579
00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:20,360
Speaker 1: I don't think really understand what detective and prosecutors to

580
00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:24,520
Speaker 1: deal with. Guys tipline seven seven oh five to eight

581
00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:28,920
Speaker 1: three O three two. I'm looking right now at the

582
00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:32,799
Speaker 1: photo of nine year old Debbie Randall. If you want

583
00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:36,160
Speaker 1: to know more about this case and how to solve it,

584
00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:42,360
Speaker 1: go to crime online dot com. Detective Morris Knicks, Ryl McCullum,

585
00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:49,120
Speaker 1: Alan Duke, and Nancy Grace Crime Stories signing off goodbye friend,