Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News. I'll tak you back
Speaker 1: to DeVos. Francine has just sat down at the Bloomberg
Speaker 1: House in DeVos. She is sitting next to Unicredits CEO
Speaker 1: Andrea Orchell. Let's take a listen to their conversation.
Speaker 2: You're, of course the chief executive of Unicredits, and you're
Speaker 2: actually the busiest banker at the moment in Europe, trying
Speaker 2: to buy Italian Bank, trying to buy Commerce Bank. We'll
Speaker 2: get to that in a moment. But actually there's quite
Speaker 2: a lot of hope and expectations in the US that
Speaker 2: Donald Trump deregulates banks. How problematic is that for the
Speaker 2: European banking system, Well.
Speaker 3: It is problematic.
Speaker 4: I think there needs to be the right balance between
Speaker 4: regulation and ability to execute, our ability to operate. I
Speaker 4: think sometimes we lose sight of the fact that the
Speaker 4: business of bank is to manage risk.
Speaker 3: To manage risk well, but to manage risk.
Speaker 4: If we look at our clients and we say, well,
Speaker 4: we would like to help you, but we are taking
Speaker 4: risks zero and we are supporting you, You're going to
Speaker 4: look at us and say, well, hang on a second,
Speaker 4: what's your value added?
Speaker 3: So I think The management.
Speaker 4: Of risk is at the core of banks, and banks
Speaker 4: need to have the right controls, the right regulation, but
Speaker 4: need to be able to take that risk. So too
Speaker 4: much theregulation is not a good idea. Too much regulation
Speaker 4: is or too little regulation is also not a good idea.
Speaker 3: You need to find the right balance. At the moment.
Speaker 4: The expectation is that the US will be well ahead
Speaker 4: of Europe in terms of being less regulated, and given
Speaker 4: that US banks do operate in Europe, that will put
Speaker 4: us at a competitive disadvantage.
Speaker 2: Do you expect regulation We've seen that in the UK
Speaker 2: last week, to expect European regulation to just take a
Speaker 2: pause and wait to see what the US does well.
Speaker 4: For the time being, there is a lot of discussion
Speaker 4: about where regulation is going to go, But for the
Speaker 4: time being, the indications are that Europe will maintain its
Speaker 4: course on regulation and will maintain the position where it is.
Speaker 4: And I think to a certain extent, if this is
Speaker 4: a steady state, this is something that we can live
Speaker 4: with and that is correct. If it continues to tighten,
Speaker 4: then it becomes a difficulty.
Speaker 2: How worried are you about competitiveness in Europe? What does
Speaker 2: your clients tell you?
Speaker 4: Look I think more generally, if you look at Europe,
Speaker 4: Europe needs gross. I think we need to rethink what
Speaker 4: is the vision for Europe, what is the strategy for Europe?
Speaker 4: And we need gross. Without gross, we're staying behind. We
Speaker 4: already behind, is going to get even worse. And in
Speaker 4: a way, if you look at gross or industrial growth
Speaker 4: as a car, the banks and capital market unions are
Speaker 4: the gasoline of that car. We cannot finance that gross transformation,
Speaker 4: that economic policy that we want without that feed.
Speaker 3: So if banks are not strong.
Speaker 4: Enough, not big enough, or or overly stringently regulated, and
Speaker 4: we don't have a capital market union, we may have
Speaker 4: all the plans in this world, but we're not going
Speaker 4: to be able to finance them at the same time.
Speaker 4: And you see it in a number of economies in Europe.
Speaker 4: Banks from other economic blocks are coming in.
Speaker 3: And when we.
Speaker 4: Talk about competition in countries like Germany, we talk mostly
Speaker 4: about American banks and maybe one or two European banks
Speaker 4: that have an approach to Germany in a certain way,
Speaker 4: But the real competitors we fear are American banks.
Speaker 2: I know you have skin in the game, but why
Speaker 2: is it so difficult to have a capital markets union?
Speaker 4: I think that like everything in Europe, you know, I
Speaker 4: think we celebrate our differences, and I think this is important.
Speaker 4: And being Italian, I think when I go through Italy,
Speaker 4: I need to explain to people that what I get
Speaker 4: in Milan is different from what I get in Rome,
Speaker 4: from when I get in Palermo.
Speaker 3: And they all have different.
Speaker 4: Views and they're very happy to tell you why they're better.
Speaker 4: So it happens in every country, it happens across Europe,
Speaker 4: and I think that's one of our strengths. But I
Speaker 4: think our biggest weakness is we're not capable to say, well,
Speaker 4: these five things we're going to put to common denominator
Speaker 4: because we can benefit more from doing it together than separately.
Speaker 4: And therefore you have all the regulation all these schemes,
Speaker 4: but they are always flexibility for each single state to
Speaker 4: implement them or not, and it always ends up being
Speaker 4: that on one or the other, a part of the
Speaker 4: European members implement and a part did not, and therefore
Speaker 4: we continue to have fragmentation and inability to.
Speaker 3: Build industries that go across Europe.
Speaker 2: So someone who I know is watching on air asked
Speaker 2: me yesterday what Andrew Rochelle is like and I just said,
Speaker 2: he's bold. You're surprised investors really shocked governments by buying
Speaker 2: a big stake in Commerce Bank and offering to buy
Speaker 2: Bunko BPM in Italy. What do you want to achieve
Speaker 2: and how fast do you want to achieve it?
Speaker 4: Well, I think it's a little bit a connecting of
Speaker 4: opportunity with interest if you look at UNI Credit. Actually,
Speaker 4: I was being criticized for three and a half years
Speaker 4: for not engaging in Animine because I thought firmly that
Speaker 4: the bank required setting back on the right tone, unlocking
Speaker 4: releasing trap potential, and we always said that at the
Speaker 4: right time, at the right terms, we would look at it.
Speaker 3: If you look at the key markets for US where
Speaker 3: we can do an.
Speaker 4: In market merger, strengthen the group and move the dial
Speaker 4: very significantly, you get Italy, you get.
Speaker 3: Germany and not really in.
Speaker 4: Market, but for our CEE you get Poland. And it
Speaker 4: just happened that the opportunity to do something in those
Speaker 4: three market came relatively at the same time. It also
Speaker 4: happened that we are exiting three years of transformation. We
Speaker 4: feel we are more ready than ever to do the
Speaker 4: next three years with even greater success. But at the
Speaker 4: same time, we have a team that has shown they
Speaker 4: are capable and that is capable of integrating and capable
Speaker 4: of accelerating what we can do alone with this acquisition,
Speaker 4: and if we do them, great, and if we don't,
Speaker 4: we will have tried.
Speaker 2: At least your moves have irritated governments in Germany and
Speaker 2: it did you predict the backlash?
Speaker 3: No, especially in Germany.
Speaker 4: I think there has been a lot of debate on that,
Speaker 4: but honestly, we struggle.
Speaker 3: I struggle to see what the debate is based on.
Speaker 4: I think beyond the fact that HVB and Commerce Bank
Speaker 4: have been talking to each other in bus direction for
Speaker 4: over twenty years, because it's a it's one of those
Speaker 4: deals that you always want to do. We can it
Speaker 4: makes a ton of sense, but for some reason it's
Speaker 4: always derailed. In the last two and a half, we
Speaker 4: probably have had and I probably have had meetings with
Speaker 4: both leadership of the government and leadership of the Commerce Bank.
Speaker 4: In the tents, we both a four and a half
Speaker 4: percent stake in anticipation that the government would sell Verse
Speaker 4: sixteen and a half, and we wanted to be at
Speaker 4: a level of consolidation. We clearly we were invited actually
Speaker 4: by the government as the only strategic to buy their
Speaker 4: stake the first seal down at four and a half.
Speaker 4: We did that in a transparent process. Actually we were
Speaker 4: asked to we were the best bid, and we were
Speaker 4: asked to bid again at a premium to what we
Speaker 4: had offered in order to get the entire stake. We
Speaker 4: agreed on a press release. During that process, we interacted
Speaker 4: again with a leadership of Commerce Bank, warning them but
Speaker 4: we were going to participate. Commerce Bank was the first
Speaker 4: call we had in the morning to debrief from where
Speaker 4: we were and from there it moved to surprise, well
Speaker 4: imagine hours, and then it moved to hostility or to opaqueness. Well,
Speaker 4: from the first day when we both and we mean
Speaker 4: Finance was well aware, we said we would ask authorization
Speaker 4: to go to twenty nine to nine.
Speaker 3: We did and we executed that. What we changed was
Speaker 3: because out of respect of both.
Speaker 4: The government and the Commerce Bank, we said, well, given
Speaker 4: that the emotions are what they are, let's wait for elections,
Speaker 4: Let's wait for things to come down, and then let's
Speaker 4: have an opportunity to instead of talk about perceptions, talk
Speaker 4: about facts, talk about figures, talk about the merit of
Speaker 4: the deal, the red lines and in front one in
Speaker 4: front of the other, tried.
Speaker 3: To see if there is a base to move forward
Speaker 3: or not.
Speaker 4: At the end of a dafferen scene for us, I
Speaker 4: would say it's a statement for Germany. We're trying to
Speaker 4: invest in excess of twenty billion into Germany at this point,
Speaker 4: and I think.
Speaker 3: That says it all.
Speaker 2: So when people say you're untrustworthy or not transparent.
Speaker 4: Enough, well, you know, there were other things that I
Speaker 4: was told in the past and now have been superseded
Speaker 4: by facts and over time. I really on this time.
Speaker 4: While I could even say that my own government could
Speaker 4: have been surprised at our move I cannot say that
Speaker 4: German government and Commerce Bank have a base for these allegations.
Speaker 2: I mean Jemuary twenty third is when there's the German elections.
Speaker 2: Do you expect something to change for you?
Speaker 4: Then, well, I don't know what I think will change
Speaker 4: or I hope will change. Is an opportunity to invest
Speaker 4: instead of focusing on perception of what we might do,
Speaker 4: you know, criticisms based on many times bias and other
Speaker 4: expectation of the past. That we can sit around the
Speaker 4: table and you know, compare notes. I do think that
Speaker 4: the transaction, if we go back on that, it's excellent
Speaker 4: for Germany. Over the last four years I chaired the
Speaker 4: supervisory board of HBB, and I got to a great
Speaker 4: conviction that Germany has first of all, that Europe does
Speaker 4: not exist without Germany, and secondly that there was a
Speaker 4: great opportunity. So the two banks are very complementary. There
Speaker 4: is a lot of value to be created, and not
Speaker 4: only for shareholders, I think for clients where we could
Speaker 4: compete in a better way versus both local and foreign competitors,
Speaker 4: and for the people of both banks. So in our book,
Speaker 4: sitting down and saying what is it exactly.
Speaker 3: That is wrong with this deal, and what is.
Speaker 4: It exactly you do not like, and how can we
Speaker 4: eliminate that from the table and get to an agreement
Speaker 4: that process that we haven't had an opportunity to go through,
Speaker 4: not with the government and not with Commerce Bank. And
Speaker 4: it's not for not asking. I think I either met
Speaker 4: or wrote a letter to every party leader in Germany
Speaker 4: explaining where we are. And I do realize that in
Speaker 4: the middle of election it's not the right time. And
Speaker 4: I also do realize that until this is settled, it
Speaker 4: is also different difficult from commerce bank to engage. The
Speaker 4: biggest thing that I have that I hope to get.
Speaker 3: From election is an ability to interact. What can you
Speaker 3: tell us about job losses?
Speaker 2: I mean, I know this is one of the worries
Speaker 2: in Germany and we're expecting also an update from cost February.
Speaker 4: There is a lot of expectation and a lot of
Speaker 4: allegation on what would occur from a combination that has
Speaker 4: not been offered yet because we haven't sat down. So
Speaker 4: but if you look at uniqu credit in the last
Speaker 4: three years, we did acceed quite a few people. I
Speaker 4: don't think you have ever read in the press, not
Speaker 4: in Italy, not in Germany, not in any of our markets.
Speaker 4: But we did that in a way that the worker's
Speaker 4: Counsel of the trade unions were against. That means we
Speaker 4: found a way that was shared to reach it. I
Speaker 4: think everybody focused on job losses, but we start before
Speaker 4: at the origin. What is the vision for this bank,
Speaker 4: What is the strategy for this bank? What are we
Speaker 4: trying to achieve? Efficiencies in the industry are a matter
Speaker 4: that needs to occur. But at the same time, if
Speaker 4: I take unique credit in the last three years, we
Speaker 4: probably reduce costs by one and a half billion, but
Speaker 4: we reinvested in the business through upgrade or our physical network,
Speaker 4: digital data, our factories, hiring new people, training new people,
Speaker 4: our university a billion two. So it's not only about
Speaker 4: we made efficiencies, but we actually reinvested the large majority
Speaker 4: of pose efficiency into the banks, which then brings us
Speaker 4: to number one, having the people of unique credit behind
Speaker 4: it because they say, well, I understand what we're trying
Speaker 4: to do and where the money that we're saving is going.
Speaker 4: And secondly, it brings us to being in a really
Speaker 4: strong position now to address the next three years that
Speaker 4: are going to be quite challenging.
Speaker 2: So we sometimes play this game in the newsroom of
Speaker 2: whose job would you not want to have right now?
Speaker 2: And I think it'd be your M and a advisor.
Speaker 2: Are you ready to walk away from the deal?
Speaker 3: Yes, of course.
Speaker 4: I mean we implicitly walked away from deals in the
Speaker 4: past several times. So we walked away from Montelebaski. There
Speaker 4: was a leak last time we tried to approach BPM,
Speaker 4: and we walked away. Second time, there was another leak
Speaker 4: that pretended obviously it was not very advanced that we
Speaker 4: were going to do something with Commerceman.
Speaker 3: We walked away from that as well.
Speaker 4: So I do think that maybe for us, or for
Speaker 4: me in particular, there was the never ending story does
Speaker 4: mena at value or does amina.
Speaker 3: Not at value?
Speaker 4: And I think MENA adds value if it's done at
Speaker 4: the right terms, at the right time, in the right way.
Speaker 3: Otherwise stay away from it.
Speaker 4: For us, we have an exciting proposition at Unique Credit.
Speaker 4: I think for us demonstrating what we can do in
Speaker 4: the next three years, demonstrating that not only we can
Speaker 4: continue to deliver at the level we were delivering where
Speaker 4: people say European banks are over earnings, but actually add
Speaker 4: a billion on top to that and improve the profitability
Speaker 4: for that.
Speaker 3: That is the exciting venture.
Speaker 4: If on top of that, given that we have confidence
Speaker 4: in what we can do, we can do acquisition at
Speaker 4: the right terms, integrate them and further accelerate what the
Speaker 4: potential we have not only for us but also for
Speaker 4: the targets great And if not, I honestly think that
Speaker 4: if I take the next three to five years and
Speaker 4: I compare the prospects at uniqu Credit has given the
Speaker 4: transformation and the investment with those of the average bank
Speaker 4: in Europe. We have no pressure in wanting to do
Speaker 4: anything because we will have great results.
Speaker 2: Okay, let's talk about Banko BPM. A lot of investors say,
Speaker 2: your offers too low, can you increase?
Speaker 3: Well, let's put it this way. Let's put it this way.
Speaker 4: It's like starting with job losses as opposed to the
Speaker 4: outcome of figs. I would say the following our offer
Speaker 4: on BPM is at a depending how you calculate fifteen
Speaker 4: to twenty percent premium to where the bank was trading
Speaker 4: a month prior, what you would call an m and
Speaker 4: a undisturbed price. What happened in that month is that
Speaker 4: they announced a bid for anima where the market reacted
Speaker 4: positively on the transaction and assumed that it could be
Speaker 4: done at that price in full.
Speaker 3: Well. Already yesterday there were rumors.
Speaker 4: That they may not get the datish compromise, and if
Speaker 4: they don't, that transaction may not occur or may not
Speaker 4: occur in full. If that is the case, on the
Speaker 4: day jumped ten percent and over a period fifteen percent.
Speaker 4: Should I pay a premium over that? The second thing
Speaker 4: is straight after that, there were a lot of speculation
Speaker 4: of a merger with Monte Pascualiena, and again the share
Speaker 4: price took another five percent, So again that merger is
Speaker 4: not occurring for the moment, and should I pay a
Speaker 4: premium on that? Again, so if you look at undisturbed price,
Speaker 4: we have fifteen twenty percent. Is that we think it's
Speaker 4: a fair starting point, especially because when you look at
Speaker 4: they're multiple versus ours and our resilience versus ours. We
Speaker 4: think we are significantly undervalued and they are probably fairly
Speaker 4: or overvalued. We'll see, we'll see. In any case, it's premature.
Speaker 4: I think let's see how banks perform in Q one,
Speaker 4: in Q two, let's see if anima is done or not.
Speaker 4: Let's see a number of other topic. But at the moment,
Speaker 4: we stand firm on our offer and we think it's appropriate.
Speaker 2: Okay, the million dollar Are you meeting with the Credit
Speaker 2: agricoll CEO and Davos because there's so I know a
Speaker 2: lot of you actually follow banks very closely, but Credit
Speaker 2: AGREU CALL controls fifteen percent of Bank of BPM and
Speaker 2: there's also distribution agreement right through its anc Mantra mundi,
Speaker 2: so you really need them on board.
Speaker 4: I think, Look, there's a lot of speculation on Kariaka.
Speaker 4: I would say the following very key partners of ours.
Speaker 4: We we account for probably seventy or eighty percent of
Speaker 4: our investment and go through a MUNDI In Italy we
Speaker 4: have a contract with them. The contract ends in twenty seven.
Speaker 4: We also do custom deal with them in Germany we
Speaker 4: work with them. Between our factories and their investment bank
Speaker 4: are quite tight. We do a number of things together,
Speaker 4: so we didn't.
Speaker 3: Need to wait for.
Speaker 4: BPM to talk to each other. There have been continuous
Speaker 4: dialogue in the last three years. I think we have
Speaker 4: a lot of point of contacts and a lot of
Speaker 4: common interest. If you ask me whether I am optimistic
Speaker 4: on finding a solution that is respectful of the part
Speaker 4: condisho for all the shareholders of BPM, that works for
Speaker 4: both banks, I'm optimistic, but at this point in time
Speaker 4: it's premature.
Speaker 2: Are you optimistic about the Italian government getting.
Speaker 3: Behind the deal?
Speaker 4: Well, I think, as you know, every time, and we've
Speaker 4: had this discussion over the years. Every time you touch
Speaker 4: a bank, everybody has an opinion, and I do think
Speaker 4: that you know, it is fair enough that they want
Speaker 4: to determine the level of competition.
Speaker 3: What will happen next? Because we would become.
Speaker 4: Quite a large institution in Italy. We would have fifteen
Speaker 4: percent of the market. Actually because of our overall size.
Speaker 4: People forget that in Italy we only have a nine
Speaker 4: percent market share in loans and deposit, So we would
Speaker 4: go to fifteen. We would be a strong number two
Speaker 4: twin TASA. But I think it's fair enough that we
Speaker 4: want to make sure that competition remain, you know, commitment
Speaker 4: to the Italian middle stunt remains. You know, branches are
Speaker 4: kept open in the areas of Italy that are more remote,
Speaker 4: and we're well, but these are all things that it's
Speaker 4: not a concession. We're determined to do and that's why
Speaker 4: we're buying the bank so very again, we take the
Speaker 4: course of the so called golden power as an opportunity
Speaker 4: to sit down and it's quite structed and to highlight
Speaker 4: all of the elements, and I'm actually quite optimistic that
Speaker 4: we will convince it.
Speaker 2: But golden power is basically a veto which they're trying
Speaker 2: to play. If they put that, do you walk away
Speaker 2: that deal?
Speaker 4: Well, you know, I think the golden power is if
Speaker 4: they were to apply it, that is not just I
Speaker 4: have an I have I can decide whether to play
Speaker 4: or not to play. But I do think honestly that
Speaker 4: if we put aside all the speculation of the press,
Speaker 4: the process is a lot more technical and constructive. And
Speaker 4: I would say for now I can only say fair
Speaker 4: when people make it to be.
Speaker 2: If your legacy is not buying these you know banks,
Speaker 2: do you worry if you fail at buying this?
Speaker 4: Or is there I think one of the biggest I
Speaker 4: think one of the biggest problems in M and A
Speaker 4: is that not buying equal failure. And I don't know,
Speaker 4: I don't see it like that. I think is buying
Speaker 4: at the right ters mean success. Not buying at the
Speaker 4: wrong terms mean less.
Speaker 3: A success, but still success.
Speaker 4: Buying at the wrong terms means deep in success. So
Speaker 4: for me, if the walk away is because the terms
Speaker 4: are not there, or because we're not accepted, or because
Speaker 4: shareholders decide not to move, fine, as I said, I think,
Speaker 4: I'm just We're already touring all the banks of a
Speaker 4: group with them three at the moment, and the view
Speaker 4: that we have on our opportunity this year is quite optimistic.
Speaker 4: As I said yesterday to our townhold in Germany, it's
Speaker 4: the first time that I but in January I see
Speaker 4: smiles when I go around, and you never know fits
Speaker 4: because they just ended the holidays, or because they're very
Speaker 4: optimistic about what we're doing. But going back on that,
Speaker 4: I think, to quote Warren Buffett, it is when the
Speaker 4: tide goes down that you see who's wearing trunks. And
Speaker 4: I think we have been talking about higher rates, low
Speaker 4: cost of risk, and inflation, and in the next three
Speaker 4: years it goes exactly in the opposite way. Lower rates,
Speaker 4: high cost of risk, higher inflation. This is the tide
Speaker 4: going down. I think every bank is stelling youth I
Speaker 4: have it all figured out.
Speaker 3: I don't think so.
Speaker 4: I think there will be a big divergence between banks
Speaker 4: that have it figured out, have transformed, have lines of defense,
Speaker 4: have levers to upset and grow, and banks who have
Speaker 4: instead spent the last three or four years squeezing the
Speaker 4: lemon and taking it the most we could do. And
Speaker 4: now they're going to start saying, oh, hang on, how
Speaker 4: do I keep up? And I think this is for
Speaker 4: us an opportunity to show the degree of the transformation
Speaker 4: and show what is there. In a way, it's almost
Speaker 4: better if you don't do acquisition, because nobody can say, oh, well, yeah,
Speaker 4: the group because they did acquisition for us and for
Speaker 4: the team. If we can deliver that plan over the
Speaker 4: next three to four years, that's exciting.
Speaker 2: On the unicordit performance, how do you mitigate lower interest rates?
Speaker 3: Well, look, I think we look at it this way.
Speaker 4: First of all, I would say we're now united, we're strong,
Speaker 4: we have very high capital, we have very high provisions.
Speaker 4: This is a strong bank, but it's highly unified, highly empowered.
Speaker 4: I'm really excited about what we can do. The second
Speaker 4: thing is I don't think any other bank kept overlays,
Speaker 4: which are fundamentally a provision to be used anti cyclically
Speaker 4: when the cost of risk goes up of one point
Speaker 4: seven billion.
Speaker 3: So if custom risk goes up in Europe, we're fine.
Speaker 4: If custom risk doesn't go up in Europe, we will
Speaker 4: release one point seven billion into our results. Secondly, we
Speaker 4: have been told over you distributed a lot of equity
Speaker 4: out and a lot of distribution.
Speaker 3: We did.
Speaker 4: We distributed almost more than twenty five billion over three
Speaker 4: and a half years, but we also generated six and
Speaker 4: a half billion of additional capital. So we have excess
Speaker 4: capital of six and a half billion. No other bank
Speaker 4: has that much. And that's two three Another buffer visa
Speaker 4: what I would call lines of defense.
Speaker 3: Every year.
Speaker 4: In the last three and a half years we have
Speaker 4: worked on transforming the bank, and we've taxed our P
Speaker 4: and L by taking integration cost about a billion a year,
Speaker 4: but nine the next three years we don't need to
Speaker 4: take them. And so when you look at that visa
Speaker 4: are the lines of defense. But what I think people
Speaker 4: missed because we've rates up everything floated, is not only
Speaker 4: the degree of our transformation, but if you look at
Speaker 4: Unique Credit, we have an exceptional geographic mix with you know,
Speaker 4: forty percent in Italy, thirty five percent if I take
Speaker 4: in Germany and Austria together which have a certain anchoring,
Speaker 4: and twenty five percent in ce And in terms of
Speaker 4: client everybody goes around and you will now understand the strategy.
Speaker 4: We have about sixty sixty five percent of our clients
Speaker 4: are either SEME, affluent or private, and we're trying to
Speaker 4: develop that.
Speaker 3: So we worked very hard to leverage.
Speaker 4: On these strengths, on being as effective and efficient as
Speaker 4: we can on these strengths, and last year, instead of
Speaker 4: spending the usual six months on budgeting, we spend three
Speaker 4: and then we spend the other three on how we're
Speaker 4: going to make it happen. Does everybody down the organization
Speaker 4: knows how to execute and we're confident.
Speaker 2: And in terms of capital distribution, you said it won't
Speaker 2: be touched no matter what happens with acquisitions.
Speaker 3: I think it's a bit more of a glimpse. I
Speaker 3: think it depends. But what does it depends?
Speaker 4: First of all, we've increased again the dividend payout to
Speaker 4: fifty percent on neck income. We started with thirty five.
Speaker 4: Now we are at fifty. That will not be touched.
Speaker 4: As they say in the industry, visu is sacrosanct. Then
Speaker 4: we have the share baybacks, which are composed of orninary
Speaker 4: distribution and excess capital returns. The entire excess capital we
Speaker 4: have committed to go back to thirteen percent and to
Speaker 4: distribute it back by twenty seven, so you're looking at
Speaker 4: twenty five, twenty six, twenty seven, six and a half
Speaker 4: billion need to go back in the pockets of shareholders.
Speaker 3: In addition to the share by back that is ordinary.
Speaker 4: That allows us to say with confidence that not only
Speaker 4: the dividend will be higher than what it was in
Speaker 4: the last few years, the dividend per share will be higher,
Speaker 4: much higher, but also, the total distribution that this year
Speaker 4: we have guided to eight and a half billion will
Speaker 4: be much higher than this year in the next three
Speaker 4: of course, if we do M and A. We have
Speaker 4: also said we will strive to keep the dividend per
Speaker 4: share unchanged to protect our shareholders, but part of that
Speaker 4: share by back will instead of going to buy our shares,
Speaker 4: to buy the shares of the target.
Speaker 2: Okay, final question in twenty twenty four was a world
Speaker 2: when frankly, just following the news from UNI Credit, think
Speaker 2: by the end of this year you'll you'll be much
Speaker 2: bigger through an acquisition.
Speaker 3: I am optimistic that we will.
Speaker 4: Actually more than fifty to fifty, more than fifty to fifty.
Speaker 2: We have to leave it here, but I have so
Speaker 2: many more questions.
Speaker 3: Commerce Bank or.
Speaker 4: The other one I don't know will see Okay, good
Speaker 4: sport and enjoying ur chill.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for joining us.
Speaker 3: Thank you very much. Thanks you M