1 00:00:02,360 --> 00:00:07,360 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News. I'll tak you back 2 00:00:07,400 --> 00:00:12,160 Speaker 1: to DeVos. Francine has just sat down at the Bloomberg 3 00:00:12,240 --> 00:00:16,360 Speaker 1: House in DeVos. She is sitting next to Unicredits CEO 4 00:00:16,520 --> 00:00:20,200 Speaker 1: Andrea Orchell. Let's take a listen to their conversation. 5 00:00:21,079 --> 00:00:24,239 Speaker 2: You're, of course the chief executive of Unicredits, and you're 6 00:00:24,280 --> 00:00:27,920 Speaker 2: actually the busiest banker at the moment in Europe, trying 7 00:00:27,960 --> 00:00:31,280 Speaker 2: to buy Italian Bank, trying to buy Commerce Bank. We'll 8 00:00:31,280 --> 00:00:33,080 Speaker 2: get to that in a moment. But actually there's quite 9 00:00:33,080 --> 00:00:36,720 Speaker 2: a lot of hope and expectations in the US that 10 00:00:37,000 --> 00:00:40,440 Speaker 2: Donald Trump deregulates banks. How problematic is that for the 11 00:00:40,479 --> 00:00:42,800 Speaker 2: European banking system, Well. 12 00:00:42,560 --> 00:00:43,520 Speaker 3: It is problematic. 13 00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:46,080 Speaker 4: I think there needs to be the right balance between 14 00:00:46,159 --> 00:00:50,080 Speaker 4: regulation and ability to execute, our ability to operate. I 15 00:00:50,120 --> 00:00:53,519 Speaker 4: think sometimes we lose sight of the fact that the 16 00:00:53,600 --> 00:00:56,040 Speaker 4: business of bank is to manage risk. 17 00:00:56,560 --> 00:00:58,800 Speaker 3: To manage risk well, but to manage risk. 18 00:00:58,880 --> 00:01:01,680 Speaker 4: If we look at our clients and we say, well, 19 00:01:01,680 --> 00:01:03,320 Speaker 4: we would like to help you, but we are taking 20 00:01:03,400 --> 00:01:07,000 Speaker 4: risks zero and we are supporting you, You're going to 21 00:01:07,040 --> 00:01:08,679 Speaker 4: look at us and say, well, hang on a second, 22 00:01:08,680 --> 00:01:09,600 Speaker 4: what's your value added? 23 00:01:10,040 --> 00:01:12,000 Speaker 3: So I think The management. 24 00:01:11,480 --> 00:01:14,400 Speaker 4: Of risk is at the core of banks, and banks 25 00:01:14,480 --> 00:01:17,720 Speaker 4: need to have the right controls, the right regulation, but 26 00:01:17,880 --> 00:01:20,640 Speaker 4: need to be able to take that risk. So too 27 00:01:20,680 --> 00:01:24,679 Speaker 4: much theregulation is not a good idea. Too much regulation 28 00:01:25,640 --> 00:01:28,840 Speaker 4: is or too little regulation is also not a good idea. 29 00:01:28,880 --> 00:01:30,920 Speaker 3: You need to find the right balance. At the moment. 30 00:01:30,959 --> 00:01:33,080 Speaker 4: The expectation is that the US will be well ahead 31 00:01:33,080 --> 00:01:37,000 Speaker 4: of Europe in terms of being less regulated, and given 32 00:01:37,040 --> 00:01:40,080 Speaker 4: that US banks do operate in Europe, that will put 33 00:01:40,160 --> 00:01:42,120 Speaker 4: us at a competitive disadvantage. 34 00:01:42,600 --> 00:01:44,880 Speaker 2: Do you expect regulation We've seen that in the UK 35 00:01:45,160 --> 00:01:47,840 Speaker 2: last week, to expect European regulation to just take a 36 00:01:47,920 --> 00:01:51,240 Speaker 2: pause and wait to see what the US does well. 37 00:01:51,280 --> 00:01:53,520 Speaker 4: For the time being, there is a lot of discussion 38 00:01:53,560 --> 00:01:58,560 Speaker 4: about where regulation is going to go, But for the 39 00:01:58,640 --> 00:02:02,120 Speaker 4: time being, the indications are that Europe will maintain its 40 00:02:02,160 --> 00:02:06,480 Speaker 4: course on regulation and will maintain the position where it is. 41 00:02:07,160 --> 00:02:09,480 Speaker 4: And I think to a certain extent, if this is 42 00:02:09,480 --> 00:02:13,480 Speaker 4: a steady state, this is something that we can live 43 00:02:13,520 --> 00:02:16,720 Speaker 4: with and that is correct. If it continues to tighten, 44 00:02:17,240 --> 00:02:18,960 Speaker 4: then it becomes a difficulty. 45 00:02:19,320 --> 00:02:22,720 Speaker 2: How worried are you about competitiveness in Europe? What does 46 00:02:23,120 --> 00:02:23,959 Speaker 2: your clients tell you? 47 00:02:24,440 --> 00:02:27,640 Speaker 4: Look I think more generally, if you look at Europe, 48 00:02:27,840 --> 00:02:31,640 Speaker 4: Europe needs gross. I think we need to rethink what 49 00:02:31,720 --> 00:02:34,040 Speaker 4: is the vision for Europe, what is the strategy for Europe? 50 00:02:34,040 --> 00:02:37,120 Speaker 4: And we need gross. Without gross, we're staying behind. We 51 00:02:37,200 --> 00:02:40,320 Speaker 4: already behind, is going to get even worse. And in 52 00:02:40,360 --> 00:02:42,959 Speaker 4: a way, if you look at gross or industrial growth 53 00:02:43,160 --> 00:02:48,800 Speaker 4: as a car, the banks and capital market unions are 54 00:02:48,840 --> 00:02:52,880 Speaker 4: the gasoline of that car. We cannot finance that gross transformation, 55 00:02:53,600 --> 00:02:57,200 Speaker 4: that economic policy that we want without that feed. 56 00:02:57,800 --> 00:03:01,399 Speaker 3: So if banks are not strong. 57 00:03:01,200 --> 00:03:07,560 Speaker 4: Enough, not big enough, or or overly stringently regulated, and 58 00:03:07,600 --> 00:03:09,680 Speaker 4: we don't have a capital market union, we may have 59 00:03:09,800 --> 00:03:11,760 Speaker 4: all the plans in this world, but we're not going 60 00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:14,560 Speaker 4: to be able to finance them at the same time. 61 00:03:14,639 --> 00:03:17,680 Speaker 4: And you see it in a number of economies in Europe. 62 00:03:18,360 --> 00:03:21,040 Speaker 4: Banks from other economic blocks are coming in. 63 00:03:21,400 --> 00:03:22,480 Speaker 3: And when we. 64 00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:26,880 Speaker 4: Talk about competition in countries like Germany, we talk mostly 65 00:03:26,919 --> 00:03:31,600 Speaker 4: about American banks and maybe one or two European banks 66 00:03:31,639 --> 00:03:34,800 Speaker 4: that have an approach to Germany in a certain way, 67 00:03:34,960 --> 00:03:38,120 Speaker 4: But the real competitors we fear are American banks. 68 00:03:38,520 --> 00:03:40,520 Speaker 2: I know you have skin in the game, but why 69 00:03:40,560 --> 00:03:42,640 Speaker 2: is it so difficult to have a capital markets union? 70 00:03:44,320 --> 00:03:47,880 Speaker 4: I think that like everything in Europe, you know, I 71 00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:52,360 Speaker 4: think we celebrate our differences, and I think this is important. 72 00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:55,640 Speaker 4: And being Italian, I think when I go through Italy, 73 00:03:56,040 --> 00:03:58,960 Speaker 4: I need to explain to people that what I get 74 00:03:59,000 --> 00:04:00,880 Speaker 4: in Milan is different from what I get in Rome, 75 00:04:00,920 --> 00:04:02,080 Speaker 4: from when I get in Palermo. 76 00:04:02,160 --> 00:04:03,880 Speaker 3: And they all have different. 77 00:04:03,640 --> 00:04:06,640 Speaker 4: Views and they're very happy to tell you why they're better. 78 00:04:08,360 --> 00:04:12,400 Speaker 4: So it happens in every country, it happens across Europe, 79 00:04:12,440 --> 00:04:14,240 Speaker 4: and I think that's one of our strengths. But I 80 00:04:14,240 --> 00:04:18,360 Speaker 4: think our biggest weakness is we're not capable to say, well, 81 00:04:18,400 --> 00:04:21,560 Speaker 4: these five things we're going to put to common denominator 82 00:04:21,600 --> 00:04:25,880 Speaker 4: because we can benefit more from doing it together than separately. 83 00:04:26,520 --> 00:04:29,720 Speaker 4: And therefore you have all the regulation all these schemes, 84 00:04:30,080 --> 00:04:34,800 Speaker 4: but they are always flexibility for each single state to 85 00:04:35,720 --> 00:04:39,080 Speaker 4: implement them or not, and it always ends up being 86 00:04:39,160 --> 00:04:42,120 Speaker 4: that on one or the other, a part of the 87 00:04:42,160 --> 00:04:46,160 Speaker 4: European members implement and a part did not, and therefore 88 00:04:46,160 --> 00:04:49,080 Speaker 4: we continue to have fragmentation and inability to. 89 00:04:50,640 --> 00:04:52,760 Speaker 3: Build industries that go across Europe. 90 00:04:53,000 --> 00:04:55,000 Speaker 2: So someone who I know is watching on air asked 91 00:04:55,040 --> 00:04:57,839 Speaker 2: me yesterday what Andrew Rochelle is like and I just said, 92 00:04:58,120 --> 00:05:02,280 Speaker 2: he's bold. You're surprised investors really shocked governments by buying 93 00:05:02,279 --> 00:05:04,839 Speaker 2: a big stake in Commerce Bank and offering to buy 94 00:05:04,839 --> 00:05:07,440 Speaker 2: Bunko BPM in Italy. What do you want to achieve 95 00:05:07,480 --> 00:05:09,200 Speaker 2: and how fast do you want to achieve it? 96 00:05:09,760 --> 00:05:14,599 Speaker 4: Well, I think it's a little bit a connecting of 97 00:05:14,920 --> 00:05:20,320 Speaker 4: opportunity with interest if you look at UNI Credit. Actually, 98 00:05:20,320 --> 00:05:22,680 Speaker 4: I was being criticized for three and a half years 99 00:05:22,760 --> 00:05:27,080 Speaker 4: for not engaging in Animine because I thought firmly that 100 00:05:27,240 --> 00:05:31,719 Speaker 4: the bank required setting back on the right tone, unlocking 101 00:05:32,520 --> 00:05:35,640 Speaker 4: releasing trap potential, and we always said that at the 102 00:05:35,720 --> 00:05:37,600 Speaker 4: right time, at the right terms, we would look at it. 103 00:05:37,680 --> 00:05:40,040 Speaker 3: If you look at the key markets for US where 104 00:05:40,040 --> 00:05:41,640 Speaker 3: we can do an. 105 00:05:41,520 --> 00:05:44,880 Speaker 4: In market merger, strengthen the group and move the dial 106 00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:48,640 Speaker 4: very significantly, you get Italy, you get. 107 00:05:48,480 --> 00:05:51,360 Speaker 3: Germany and not really in. 108 00:05:51,360 --> 00:05:54,640 Speaker 4: Market, but for our CEE you get Poland. And it 109 00:05:54,839 --> 00:05:57,800 Speaker 4: just happened that the opportunity to do something in those 110 00:05:57,839 --> 00:06:01,760 Speaker 4: three market came relatively at the same time. It also 111 00:06:01,839 --> 00:06:06,040 Speaker 4: happened that we are exiting three years of transformation. We 112 00:06:06,080 --> 00:06:08,919 Speaker 4: feel we are more ready than ever to do the 113 00:06:08,960 --> 00:06:12,200 Speaker 4: next three years with even greater success. But at the 114 00:06:12,200 --> 00:06:14,280 Speaker 4: same time, we have a team that has shown they 115 00:06:14,279 --> 00:06:17,920 Speaker 4: are capable and that is capable of integrating and capable 116 00:06:18,040 --> 00:06:22,120 Speaker 4: of accelerating what we can do alone with this acquisition, 117 00:06:22,200 --> 00:06:24,159 Speaker 4: and if we do them, great, and if we don't, 118 00:06:24,279 --> 00:06:25,040 Speaker 4: we will have tried. 119 00:06:25,080 --> 00:06:28,000 Speaker 2: At least your moves have irritated governments in Germany and 120 00:06:28,040 --> 00:06:30,400 Speaker 2: it did you predict the backlash? 121 00:06:30,880 --> 00:06:32,320 Speaker 3: No, especially in Germany. 122 00:06:32,480 --> 00:06:34,880 Speaker 4: I think there has been a lot of debate on that, 123 00:06:35,040 --> 00:06:37,360 Speaker 4: but honestly, we struggle. 124 00:06:37,480 --> 00:06:40,000 Speaker 3: I struggle to see what the debate is based on. 125 00:06:41,640 --> 00:06:45,080 Speaker 4: I think beyond the fact that HVB and Commerce Bank 126 00:06:45,120 --> 00:06:47,760 Speaker 4: have been talking to each other in bus direction for 127 00:06:47,800 --> 00:06:50,479 Speaker 4: over twenty years, because it's a it's one of those 128 00:06:50,480 --> 00:06:52,440 Speaker 4: deals that you always want to do. We can it 129 00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:55,120 Speaker 4: makes a ton of sense, but for some reason it's 130 00:06:55,160 --> 00:06:57,960 Speaker 4: always derailed. In the last two and a half, we 131 00:06:58,040 --> 00:07:01,680 Speaker 4: probably have had and I probably have had meetings with 132 00:07:01,720 --> 00:07:05,080 Speaker 4: both leadership of the government and leadership of the Commerce Bank. 133 00:07:05,120 --> 00:07:08,280 Speaker 4: In the tents, we both a four and a half 134 00:07:08,320 --> 00:07:11,000 Speaker 4: percent stake in anticipation that the government would sell Verse 135 00:07:11,000 --> 00:07:12,720 Speaker 4: sixteen and a half, and we wanted to be at 136 00:07:12,760 --> 00:07:17,120 Speaker 4: a level of consolidation. We clearly we were invited actually 137 00:07:17,120 --> 00:07:20,400 Speaker 4: by the government as the only strategic to buy their 138 00:07:20,440 --> 00:07:22,320 Speaker 4: stake the first seal down at four and a half. 139 00:07:22,360 --> 00:07:25,280 Speaker 4: We did that in a transparent process. Actually we were 140 00:07:25,320 --> 00:07:27,800 Speaker 4: asked to we were the best bid, and we were 141 00:07:27,840 --> 00:07:30,560 Speaker 4: asked to bid again at a premium to what we 142 00:07:30,600 --> 00:07:33,600 Speaker 4: had offered in order to get the entire stake. We 143 00:07:33,640 --> 00:07:37,960 Speaker 4: agreed on a press release. During that process, we interacted 144 00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:40,280 Speaker 4: again with a leadership of Commerce Bank, warning them but 145 00:07:40,360 --> 00:07:43,679 Speaker 4: we were going to participate. Commerce Bank was the first 146 00:07:43,760 --> 00:07:46,440 Speaker 4: call we had in the morning to debrief from where 147 00:07:46,480 --> 00:07:50,400 Speaker 4: we were and from there it moved to surprise, well 148 00:07:50,520 --> 00:07:56,960 Speaker 4: imagine hours, and then it moved to hostility or to opaqueness. Well, 149 00:07:57,200 --> 00:07:59,800 Speaker 4: from the first day when we both and we mean 150 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:02,960 Speaker 4: Finance was well aware, we said we would ask authorization 151 00:08:03,080 --> 00:08:04,240 Speaker 4: to go to twenty nine to nine. 152 00:08:04,920 --> 00:08:08,680 Speaker 3: We did and we executed that. What we changed was 153 00:08:08,720 --> 00:08:11,040 Speaker 3: because out of respect of both. 154 00:08:10,920 --> 00:08:15,320 Speaker 4: The government and the Commerce Bank, we said, well, given 155 00:08:15,360 --> 00:08:18,000 Speaker 4: that the emotions are what they are, let's wait for elections, 156 00:08:18,880 --> 00:08:21,559 Speaker 4: Let's wait for things to come down, and then let's 157 00:08:21,560 --> 00:08:28,160 Speaker 4: have an opportunity to instead of talk about perceptions, talk 158 00:08:28,160 --> 00:08:30,720 Speaker 4: about facts, talk about figures, talk about the merit of 159 00:08:30,760 --> 00:08:33,680 Speaker 4: the deal, the red lines and in front one in 160 00:08:33,679 --> 00:08:35,239 Speaker 4: front of the other, tried. 161 00:08:34,960 --> 00:08:37,000 Speaker 3: To see if there is a base to move forward 162 00:08:37,160 --> 00:08:37,439 Speaker 3: or not. 163 00:08:38,080 --> 00:08:39,920 Speaker 4: At the end of a dafferen scene for us, I 164 00:08:39,960 --> 00:08:42,880 Speaker 4: would say it's a statement for Germany. We're trying to 165 00:08:42,920 --> 00:08:45,920 Speaker 4: invest in excess of twenty billion into Germany at this point, 166 00:08:45,960 --> 00:08:46,760 Speaker 4: and I think. 167 00:08:46,600 --> 00:08:47,320 Speaker 3: That says it all. 168 00:08:47,920 --> 00:08:51,000 Speaker 2: So when people say you're untrustworthy or not transparent. 169 00:08:50,600 --> 00:08:54,480 Speaker 4: Enough, well, you know, there were other things that I 170 00:08:54,520 --> 00:08:57,679 Speaker 4: was told in the past and now have been superseded 171 00:08:57,720 --> 00:09:02,000 Speaker 4: by facts and over time. I really on this time. 172 00:09:02,960 --> 00:09:07,120 Speaker 4: While I could even say that my own government could 173 00:09:07,200 --> 00:09:11,000 Speaker 4: have been surprised at our move I cannot say that 174 00:09:11,920 --> 00:09:15,960 Speaker 4: German government and Commerce Bank have a base for these allegations. 175 00:09:16,080 --> 00:09:18,640 Speaker 2: I mean Jemuary twenty third is when there's the German elections. 176 00:09:18,640 --> 00:09:20,600 Speaker 2: Do you expect something to change for you? 177 00:09:20,640 --> 00:09:23,840 Speaker 4: Then, well, I don't know what I think will change 178 00:09:24,040 --> 00:09:27,520 Speaker 4: or I hope will change. Is an opportunity to invest 179 00:09:28,320 --> 00:09:32,240 Speaker 4: instead of focusing on perception of what we might do, 180 00:09:34,120 --> 00:09:39,800 Speaker 4: you know, criticisms based on many times bias and other 181 00:09:39,920 --> 00:09:42,440 Speaker 4: expectation of the past. That we can sit around the 182 00:09:42,440 --> 00:09:46,520 Speaker 4: table and you know, compare notes. I do think that 183 00:09:47,200 --> 00:09:51,280 Speaker 4: the transaction, if we go back on that, it's excellent 184 00:09:51,320 --> 00:09:54,520 Speaker 4: for Germany. Over the last four years I chaired the 185 00:09:54,600 --> 00:09:57,840 Speaker 4: supervisory board of HBB, and I got to a great 186 00:09:57,880 --> 00:10:00,640 Speaker 4: conviction that Germany has first of all, that Europe does 187 00:10:00,640 --> 00:10:03,520 Speaker 4: not exist without Germany, and secondly that there was a 188 00:10:03,520 --> 00:10:07,280 Speaker 4: great opportunity. So the two banks are very complementary. There 189 00:10:07,320 --> 00:10:09,080 Speaker 4: is a lot of value to be created, and not 190 00:10:09,160 --> 00:10:12,520 Speaker 4: only for shareholders, I think for clients where we could 191 00:10:12,600 --> 00:10:17,120 Speaker 4: compete in a better way versus both local and foreign competitors, 192 00:10:17,600 --> 00:10:22,960 Speaker 4: and for the people of both banks. So in our book, 193 00:10:23,640 --> 00:10:26,760 Speaker 4: sitting down and saying what is it exactly. 194 00:10:26,440 --> 00:10:28,600 Speaker 3: That is wrong with this deal, and what is. 195 00:10:28,559 --> 00:10:31,600 Speaker 4: It exactly you do not like, and how can we 196 00:10:31,640 --> 00:10:34,720 Speaker 4: eliminate that from the table and get to an agreement 197 00:10:34,920 --> 00:10:38,720 Speaker 4: that process that we haven't had an opportunity to go through, 198 00:10:38,800 --> 00:10:41,280 Speaker 4: not with the government and not with Commerce Bank. And 199 00:10:41,320 --> 00:10:44,480 Speaker 4: it's not for not asking. I think I either met 200 00:10:45,520 --> 00:10:48,080 Speaker 4: or wrote a letter to every party leader in Germany 201 00:10:48,080 --> 00:10:51,680 Speaker 4: explaining where we are. And I do realize that in 202 00:10:51,720 --> 00:10:54,480 Speaker 4: the middle of election it's not the right time. And 203 00:10:54,520 --> 00:10:56,920 Speaker 4: I also do realize that until this is settled, it 204 00:10:57,000 --> 00:11:00,640 Speaker 4: is also different difficult from commerce bank to engage. The 205 00:11:00,679 --> 00:11:03,080 Speaker 4: biggest thing that I have that I hope to get. 206 00:11:02,960 --> 00:11:06,839 Speaker 3: From election is an ability to interact. What can you 207 00:11:06,880 --> 00:11:08,120 Speaker 3: tell us about job losses? 208 00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:09,760 Speaker 2: I mean, I know this is one of the worries 209 00:11:09,760 --> 00:11:12,960 Speaker 2: in Germany and we're expecting also an update from cost February. 210 00:11:12,960 --> 00:11:15,319 Speaker 4: There is a lot of expectation and a lot of 211 00:11:15,440 --> 00:11:21,160 Speaker 4: allegation on what would occur from a combination that has 212 00:11:21,280 --> 00:11:24,719 Speaker 4: not been offered yet because we haven't sat down. So 213 00:11:24,800 --> 00:11:26,360 Speaker 4: but if you look at uniqu credit in the last 214 00:11:26,400 --> 00:11:29,000 Speaker 4: three years, we did acceed quite a few people. I 215 00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:30,880 Speaker 4: don't think you have ever read in the press, not 216 00:11:30,960 --> 00:11:33,560 Speaker 4: in Italy, not in Germany, not in any of our markets. 217 00:11:33,600 --> 00:11:35,400 Speaker 4: But we did that in a way that the worker's 218 00:11:35,440 --> 00:11:38,160 Speaker 4: Counsel of the trade unions were against. That means we 219 00:11:38,280 --> 00:11:41,400 Speaker 4: found a way that was shared to reach it. I 220 00:11:41,400 --> 00:11:45,320 Speaker 4: think everybody focused on job losses, but we start before 221 00:11:45,360 --> 00:11:48,080 Speaker 4: at the origin. What is the vision for this bank, 222 00:11:48,320 --> 00:11:50,199 Speaker 4: What is the strategy for this bank? What are we 223 00:11:50,280 --> 00:11:54,160 Speaker 4: trying to achieve? Efficiencies in the industry are a matter 224 00:11:54,840 --> 00:11:57,959 Speaker 4: that needs to occur. But at the same time, if 225 00:11:58,000 --> 00:12:01,280 Speaker 4: I take unique credit in the last three years, we 226 00:12:01,400 --> 00:12:05,200 Speaker 4: probably reduce costs by one and a half billion, but 227 00:12:05,280 --> 00:12:10,040 Speaker 4: we reinvested in the business through upgrade or our physical network, 228 00:12:10,920 --> 00:12:18,120 Speaker 4: digital data, our factories, hiring new people, training new people, 229 00:12:18,200 --> 00:12:22,080 Speaker 4: our university a billion two. So it's not only about 230 00:12:22,160 --> 00:12:26,360 Speaker 4: we made efficiencies, but we actually reinvested the large majority 231 00:12:26,360 --> 00:12:29,600 Speaker 4: of pose efficiency into the banks, which then brings us 232 00:12:30,080 --> 00:12:34,079 Speaker 4: to number one, having the people of unique credit behind 233 00:12:34,120 --> 00:12:36,200 Speaker 4: it because they say, well, I understand what we're trying 234 00:12:36,240 --> 00:12:38,760 Speaker 4: to do and where the money that we're saving is going. 235 00:12:39,280 --> 00:12:44,079 Speaker 4: And secondly, it brings us to being in a really 236 00:12:44,120 --> 00:12:46,600 Speaker 4: strong position now to address the next three years that 237 00:12:46,640 --> 00:12:47,720 Speaker 4: are going to be quite challenging. 238 00:12:48,160 --> 00:12:50,880 Speaker 2: So we sometimes play this game in the newsroom of 239 00:12:50,920 --> 00:12:52,720 Speaker 2: whose job would you not want to have right now? 240 00:12:52,760 --> 00:12:54,360 Speaker 2: And I think it'd be your M and a advisor. 241 00:12:57,200 --> 00:12:59,600 Speaker 2: Are you ready to walk away from the deal? 242 00:13:00,520 --> 00:13:01,240 Speaker 3: Yes, of course. 243 00:13:01,320 --> 00:13:08,160 Speaker 4: I mean we implicitly walked away from deals in the 244 00:13:08,200 --> 00:13:12,520 Speaker 4: past several times. So we walked away from Montelebaski. There 245 00:13:12,720 --> 00:13:15,880 Speaker 4: was a leak last time we tried to approach BPM, 246 00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:19,280 Speaker 4: and we walked away. Second time, there was another leak 247 00:13:19,440 --> 00:13:22,160 Speaker 4: that pretended obviously it was not very advanced that we 248 00:13:22,160 --> 00:13:23,839 Speaker 4: were going to do something with Commerceman. 249 00:13:23,880 --> 00:13:25,200 Speaker 3: We walked away from that as well. 250 00:13:25,760 --> 00:13:29,480 Speaker 4: So I do think that maybe for us, or for 251 00:13:29,600 --> 00:13:33,480 Speaker 4: me in particular, there was the never ending story does 252 00:13:33,600 --> 00:13:35,319 Speaker 4: mena at value or does amina. 253 00:13:35,160 --> 00:13:35,880 Speaker 3: Not at value? 254 00:13:36,440 --> 00:13:39,200 Speaker 4: And I think MENA adds value if it's done at 255 00:13:39,200 --> 00:13:41,760 Speaker 4: the right terms, at the right time, in the right way. 256 00:13:42,120 --> 00:13:43,560 Speaker 3: Otherwise stay away from it. 257 00:13:44,080 --> 00:13:48,240 Speaker 4: For us, we have an exciting proposition at Unique Credit. 258 00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:51,680 Speaker 4: I think for us demonstrating what we can do in 259 00:13:51,679 --> 00:13:54,960 Speaker 4: the next three years, demonstrating that not only we can 260 00:13:56,120 --> 00:13:58,600 Speaker 4: continue to deliver at the level we were delivering where 261 00:13:58,679 --> 00:14:02,200 Speaker 4: people say European banks are over earnings, but actually add 262 00:14:02,240 --> 00:14:05,200 Speaker 4: a billion on top to that and improve the profitability 263 00:14:05,480 --> 00:14:05,920 Speaker 4: for that. 264 00:14:05,920 --> 00:14:07,400 Speaker 3: That is the exciting venture. 265 00:14:08,200 --> 00:14:11,120 Speaker 4: If on top of that, given that we have confidence 266 00:14:11,120 --> 00:14:15,640 Speaker 4: in what we can do, we can do acquisition at 267 00:14:15,640 --> 00:14:18,960 Speaker 4: the right terms, integrate them and further accelerate what the 268 00:14:19,000 --> 00:14:21,000 Speaker 4: potential we have not only for us but also for 269 00:14:21,080 --> 00:14:25,920 Speaker 4: the targets great And if not, I honestly think that 270 00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:27,840 Speaker 4: if I take the next three to five years and 271 00:14:27,880 --> 00:14:31,160 Speaker 4: I compare the prospects at uniqu Credit has given the 272 00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:34,400 Speaker 4: transformation and the investment with those of the average bank 273 00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:37,840 Speaker 4: in Europe. We have no pressure in wanting to do 274 00:14:37,880 --> 00:14:40,240 Speaker 4: anything because we will have great results. 275 00:14:40,360 --> 00:14:43,360 Speaker 2: Okay, let's talk about Banko BPM. A lot of investors say, 276 00:14:43,360 --> 00:14:45,240 Speaker 2: your offers too low, can you increase? 277 00:14:45,960 --> 00:14:49,320 Speaker 3: Well, let's put it this way. Let's put it this way. 278 00:14:49,720 --> 00:14:53,080 Speaker 4: It's like starting with job losses as opposed to the 279 00:14:53,120 --> 00:14:57,520 Speaker 4: outcome of figs. I would say the following our offer 280 00:14:57,560 --> 00:15:01,480 Speaker 4: on BPM is at a depending how you calculate fifteen 281 00:15:01,520 --> 00:15:05,120 Speaker 4: to twenty percent premium to where the bank was trading 282 00:15:05,120 --> 00:15:07,400 Speaker 4: a month prior, what you would call an m and 283 00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:10,840 Speaker 4: a undisturbed price. What happened in that month is that 284 00:15:10,960 --> 00:15:14,400 Speaker 4: they announced a bid for anima where the market reacted 285 00:15:14,400 --> 00:15:17,200 Speaker 4: positively on the transaction and assumed that it could be 286 00:15:17,280 --> 00:15:19,080 Speaker 4: done at that price in full. 287 00:15:19,600 --> 00:15:22,520 Speaker 3: Well. Already yesterday there were rumors. 288 00:15:22,440 --> 00:15:24,640 Speaker 4: That they may not get the datish compromise, and if 289 00:15:24,640 --> 00:15:28,320 Speaker 4: they don't, that transaction may not occur or may not 290 00:15:28,320 --> 00:15:31,160 Speaker 4: occur in full. If that is the case, on the 291 00:15:31,240 --> 00:15:34,440 Speaker 4: day jumped ten percent and over a period fifteen percent. 292 00:15:34,680 --> 00:15:37,880 Speaker 4: Should I pay a premium over that? The second thing 293 00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:40,600 Speaker 4: is straight after that, there were a lot of speculation 294 00:15:41,240 --> 00:15:45,560 Speaker 4: of a merger with Monte Pascualiena, and again the share 295 00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:49,000 Speaker 4: price took another five percent, So again that merger is 296 00:15:49,040 --> 00:15:51,200 Speaker 4: not occurring for the moment, and should I pay a 297 00:15:51,280 --> 00:15:54,240 Speaker 4: premium on that? Again, so if you look at undisturbed price, 298 00:15:54,280 --> 00:15:56,720 Speaker 4: we have fifteen twenty percent. Is that we think it's 299 00:15:56,760 --> 00:16:00,240 Speaker 4: a fair starting point, especially because when you look at 300 00:16:00,280 --> 00:16:04,520 Speaker 4: they're multiple versus ours and our resilience versus ours. We 301 00:16:04,680 --> 00:16:09,840 Speaker 4: think we are significantly undervalued and they are probably fairly 302 00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:14,600 Speaker 4: or overvalued. We'll see, we'll see. In any case, it's premature. 303 00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:18,560 Speaker 4: I think let's see how banks perform in Q one, 304 00:16:19,120 --> 00:16:22,000 Speaker 4: in Q two, let's see if anima is done or not. 305 00:16:22,400 --> 00:16:25,960 Speaker 4: Let's see a number of other topic. But at the moment, 306 00:16:26,040 --> 00:16:29,400 Speaker 4: we stand firm on our offer and we think it's appropriate. 307 00:16:29,560 --> 00:16:31,400 Speaker 2: Okay, the million dollar Are you meeting with the Credit 308 00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:34,640 Speaker 2: agricoll CEO and Davos because there's so I know a 309 00:16:34,640 --> 00:16:37,640 Speaker 2: lot of you actually follow banks very closely, but Credit 310 00:16:37,640 --> 00:16:40,240 Speaker 2: AGREU CALL controls fifteen percent of Bank of BPM and 311 00:16:40,280 --> 00:16:44,120 Speaker 2: there's also distribution agreement right through its anc Mantra mundi, 312 00:16:44,200 --> 00:16:45,560 Speaker 2: so you really need them on board. 313 00:16:46,280 --> 00:16:49,800 Speaker 4: I think, Look, there's a lot of speculation on Kariaka. 314 00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:53,280 Speaker 4: I would say the following very key partners of ours. 315 00:16:54,160 --> 00:16:59,040 Speaker 4: We we account for probably seventy or eighty percent of 316 00:16:59,080 --> 00:17:02,440 Speaker 4: our investment and go through a MUNDI In Italy we 317 00:17:02,520 --> 00:17:05,879 Speaker 4: have a contract with them. The contract ends in twenty seven. 318 00:17:06,480 --> 00:17:09,760 Speaker 4: We also do custom deal with them in Germany we 319 00:17:09,960 --> 00:17:13,520 Speaker 4: work with them. Between our factories and their investment bank 320 00:17:13,600 --> 00:17:16,000 Speaker 4: are quite tight. We do a number of things together, 321 00:17:16,080 --> 00:17:17,680 Speaker 4: so we didn't. 322 00:17:17,359 --> 00:17:18,080 Speaker 3: Need to wait for. 323 00:17:19,600 --> 00:17:22,520 Speaker 4: BPM to talk to each other. There have been continuous 324 00:17:22,520 --> 00:17:25,080 Speaker 4: dialogue in the last three years. I think we have 325 00:17:25,119 --> 00:17:26,760 Speaker 4: a lot of point of contacts and a lot of 326 00:17:26,800 --> 00:17:31,200 Speaker 4: common interest. If you ask me whether I am optimistic 327 00:17:31,400 --> 00:17:35,640 Speaker 4: on finding a solution that is respectful of the part 328 00:17:35,720 --> 00:17:39,080 Speaker 4: condisho for all the shareholders of BPM, that works for 329 00:17:39,119 --> 00:17:42,160 Speaker 4: both banks, I'm optimistic, but at this point in time 330 00:17:42,160 --> 00:17:42,919 Speaker 4: it's premature. 331 00:17:43,240 --> 00:17:46,399 Speaker 2: Are you optimistic about the Italian government getting. 332 00:17:46,119 --> 00:17:46,720 Speaker 3: Behind the deal? 333 00:17:47,200 --> 00:17:49,680 Speaker 4: Well, I think, as you know, every time, and we've 334 00:17:49,720 --> 00:17:52,240 Speaker 4: had this discussion over the years. Every time you touch 335 00:17:52,280 --> 00:17:58,960 Speaker 4: a bank, everybody has an opinion, and I do think 336 00:17:59,000 --> 00:18:02,440 Speaker 4: that you know, it is fair enough that they want 337 00:18:02,520 --> 00:18:05,600 Speaker 4: to determine the level of competition. 338 00:18:07,280 --> 00:18:10,080 Speaker 3: What will happen next? Because we would become. 339 00:18:10,480 --> 00:18:13,040 Speaker 4: Quite a large institution in Italy. We would have fifteen 340 00:18:13,040 --> 00:18:17,160 Speaker 4: percent of the market. Actually because of our overall size. 341 00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:19,400 Speaker 4: People forget that in Italy we only have a nine 342 00:18:19,400 --> 00:18:23,760 Speaker 4: percent market share in loans and deposit, So we would 343 00:18:23,760 --> 00:18:25,639 Speaker 4: go to fifteen. We would be a strong number two 344 00:18:25,680 --> 00:18:28,639 Speaker 4: twin TASA. But I think it's fair enough that we 345 00:18:28,760 --> 00:18:34,080 Speaker 4: want to make sure that competition remain, you know, commitment 346 00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:40,359 Speaker 4: to the Italian middle stunt remains. You know, branches are 347 00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:43,600 Speaker 4: kept open in the areas of Italy that are more remote, 348 00:18:43,640 --> 00:18:48,080 Speaker 4: and we're well, but these are all things that it's 349 00:18:48,160 --> 00:18:50,720 Speaker 4: not a concession. We're determined to do and that's why 350 00:18:50,760 --> 00:18:53,919 Speaker 4: we're buying the bank so very again, we take the 351 00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:57,920 Speaker 4: course of the so called golden power as an opportunity 352 00:18:57,960 --> 00:19:01,320 Speaker 4: to sit down and it's quite structed and to highlight 353 00:19:01,960 --> 00:19:04,399 Speaker 4: all of the elements, and I'm actually quite optimistic that 354 00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:05,119 Speaker 4: we will convince it. 355 00:19:05,320 --> 00:19:08,040 Speaker 2: But golden power is basically a veto which they're trying 356 00:19:08,080 --> 00:19:11,000 Speaker 2: to play. If they put that, do you walk away 357 00:19:11,600 --> 00:19:11,919 Speaker 2: that deal? 358 00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:15,320 Speaker 4: Well, you know, I think the golden power is if 359 00:19:15,320 --> 00:19:18,000 Speaker 4: they were to apply it, that is not just I 360 00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:21,320 Speaker 4: have an I have I can decide whether to play 361 00:19:21,400 --> 00:19:24,560 Speaker 4: or not to play. But I do think honestly that 362 00:19:24,760 --> 00:19:27,159 Speaker 4: if we put aside all the speculation of the press, 363 00:19:27,880 --> 00:19:31,120 Speaker 4: the process is a lot more technical and constructive. And 364 00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:34,359 Speaker 4: I would say for now I can only say fair 365 00:19:34,920 --> 00:19:35,919 Speaker 4: when people make it to be. 366 00:19:37,119 --> 00:19:40,560 Speaker 2: If your legacy is not buying these you know banks, 367 00:19:41,040 --> 00:19:42,840 Speaker 2: do you worry if you fail at buying this? 368 00:19:42,960 --> 00:19:47,520 Speaker 4: Or is there I think one of the biggest I 369 00:19:47,520 --> 00:19:50,280 Speaker 4: think one of the biggest problems in M and A 370 00:19:50,720 --> 00:19:57,000 Speaker 4: is that not buying equal failure. And I don't know, 371 00:19:57,040 --> 00:19:59,399 Speaker 4: I don't see it like that. I think is buying 372 00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:03,040 Speaker 4: at the right ters mean success. Not buying at the 373 00:20:03,080 --> 00:20:04,760 Speaker 4: wrong terms mean less. 374 00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:06,160 Speaker 3: A success, but still success. 375 00:20:06,520 --> 00:20:10,000 Speaker 4: Buying at the wrong terms means deep in success. So 376 00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:14,639 Speaker 4: for me, if the walk away is because the terms 377 00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:18,639 Speaker 4: are not there, or because we're not accepted, or because 378 00:20:18,640 --> 00:20:25,240 Speaker 4: shareholders decide not to move, fine, as I said, I think, 379 00:20:25,840 --> 00:20:29,359 Speaker 4: I'm just We're already touring all the banks of a 380 00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:33,960 Speaker 4: group with them three at the moment, and the view 381 00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:37,240 Speaker 4: that we have on our opportunity this year is quite optimistic. 382 00:20:38,440 --> 00:20:41,360 Speaker 4: As I said yesterday to our townhold in Germany, it's 383 00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:43,840 Speaker 4: the first time that I but in January I see 384 00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:46,240 Speaker 4: smiles when I go around, and you never know fits 385 00:20:46,280 --> 00:20:49,879 Speaker 4: because they just ended the holidays, or because they're very 386 00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:53,000 Speaker 4: optimistic about what we're doing. But going back on that, 387 00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:57,479 Speaker 4: I think, to quote Warren Buffett, it is when the 388 00:20:57,480 --> 00:21:00,800 Speaker 4: tide goes down that you see who's wearing trunks. And 389 00:21:00,880 --> 00:21:04,800 Speaker 4: I think we have been talking about higher rates, low 390 00:21:04,840 --> 00:21:08,200 Speaker 4: cost of risk, and inflation, and in the next three 391 00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:12,200 Speaker 4: years it goes exactly in the opposite way. Lower rates, 392 00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:15,720 Speaker 4: high cost of risk, higher inflation. This is the tide 393 00:21:15,800 --> 00:21:19,679 Speaker 4: going down. I think every bank is stelling youth I 394 00:21:19,720 --> 00:21:20,720 Speaker 4: have it all figured out. 395 00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:22,280 Speaker 3: I don't think so. 396 00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:25,399 Speaker 4: I think there will be a big divergence between banks 397 00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:29,040 Speaker 4: that have it figured out, have transformed, have lines of defense, 398 00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:32,879 Speaker 4: have levers to upset and grow, and banks who have 399 00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:36,480 Speaker 4: instead spent the last three or four years squeezing the 400 00:21:36,560 --> 00:21:39,040 Speaker 4: lemon and taking it the most we could do. And 401 00:21:39,119 --> 00:21:41,800 Speaker 4: now they're going to start saying, oh, hang on, how 402 00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:43,840 Speaker 4: do I keep up? And I think this is for 403 00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:47,560 Speaker 4: us an opportunity to show the degree of the transformation 404 00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:52,600 Speaker 4: and show what is there. In a way, it's almost 405 00:21:52,720 --> 00:21:56,400 Speaker 4: better if you don't do acquisition, because nobody can say, oh, well, yeah, 406 00:21:56,480 --> 00:21:59,359 Speaker 4: the group because they did acquisition for us and for 407 00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:01,639 Speaker 4: the team. If we can deliver that plan over the 408 00:22:01,720 --> 00:22:03,640 Speaker 4: next three to four years, that's exciting. 409 00:22:04,119 --> 00:22:07,399 Speaker 2: On the unicordit performance, how do you mitigate lower interest rates? 410 00:22:07,560 --> 00:22:10,040 Speaker 3: Well, look, I think we look at it this way. 411 00:22:10,119 --> 00:22:14,240 Speaker 4: First of all, I would say we're now united, we're strong, 412 00:22:15,080 --> 00:22:18,200 Speaker 4: we have very high capital, we have very high provisions. 413 00:22:18,880 --> 00:22:22,959 Speaker 4: This is a strong bank, but it's highly unified, highly empowered. 414 00:22:23,119 --> 00:22:26,560 Speaker 4: I'm really excited about what we can do. The second 415 00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:32,399 Speaker 4: thing is I don't think any other bank kept overlays, 416 00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:36,880 Speaker 4: which are fundamentally a provision to be used anti cyclically 417 00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:39,400 Speaker 4: when the cost of risk goes up of one point 418 00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:40,000 Speaker 4: seven billion. 419 00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:43,680 Speaker 3: So if custom risk goes up in Europe, we're fine. 420 00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:46,360 Speaker 4: If custom risk doesn't go up in Europe, we will 421 00:22:46,359 --> 00:22:50,320 Speaker 4: release one point seven billion into our results. Secondly, we 422 00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:53,320 Speaker 4: have been told over you distributed a lot of equity 423 00:22:53,359 --> 00:22:54,720 Speaker 4: out and a lot of distribution. 424 00:22:55,320 --> 00:22:55,760 Speaker 3: We did. 425 00:22:55,960 --> 00:22:59,320 Speaker 4: We distributed almost more than twenty five billion over three 426 00:22:59,359 --> 00:23:04,080 Speaker 4: and a half years, but we also generated six and 427 00:23:04,119 --> 00:23:06,919 Speaker 4: a half billion of additional capital. So we have excess 428 00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:09,359 Speaker 4: capital of six and a half billion. No other bank 429 00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:14,400 Speaker 4: has that much. And that's two three Another buffer visa 430 00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:16,040 Speaker 4: what I would call lines of defense. 431 00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:16,720 Speaker 3: Every year. 432 00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:18,240 Speaker 4: In the last three and a half years we have 433 00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:21,760 Speaker 4: worked on transforming the bank, and we've taxed our P 434 00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:24,880 Speaker 4: and L by taking integration cost about a billion a year, 435 00:23:25,359 --> 00:23:26,920 Speaker 4: but nine the next three years we don't need to 436 00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:29,200 Speaker 4: take them. And so when you look at that visa 437 00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:31,520 Speaker 4: are the lines of defense. But what I think people 438 00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:37,160 Speaker 4: missed because we've rates up everything floated, is not only 439 00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:39,320 Speaker 4: the degree of our transformation, but if you look at 440 00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:44,680 Speaker 4: Unique Credit, we have an exceptional geographic mix with you know, 441 00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:48,440 Speaker 4: forty percent in Italy, thirty five percent if I take 442 00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:53,400 Speaker 4: in Germany and Austria together which have a certain anchoring, 443 00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:56,919 Speaker 4: and twenty five percent in ce And in terms of 444 00:23:57,000 --> 00:24:01,040 Speaker 4: client everybody goes around and you will now understand the strategy. 445 00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:04,120 Speaker 4: We have about sixty sixty five percent of our clients 446 00:24:04,359 --> 00:24:08,000 Speaker 4: are either SEME, affluent or private, and we're trying to 447 00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:08,879 Speaker 4: develop that. 448 00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:13,480 Speaker 3: So we worked very hard to leverage. 449 00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:16,240 Speaker 4: On these strengths, on being as effective and efficient as 450 00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:19,280 Speaker 4: we can on these strengths, and last year, instead of 451 00:24:19,280 --> 00:24:22,240 Speaker 4: spending the usual six months on budgeting, we spend three 452 00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:24,760 Speaker 4: and then we spend the other three on how we're 453 00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:27,639 Speaker 4: going to make it happen. Does everybody down the organization 454 00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:30,320 Speaker 4: knows how to execute and we're confident. 455 00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:33,040 Speaker 2: And in terms of capital distribution, you said it won't 456 00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:34,800 Speaker 2: be touched no matter what happens with acquisitions. 457 00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:36,879 Speaker 3: I think it's a bit more of a glimpse. I 458 00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:39,000 Speaker 3: think it depends. But what does it depends? 459 00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:44,119 Speaker 4: First of all, we've increased again the dividend payout to 460 00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:47,600 Speaker 4: fifty percent on neck income. We started with thirty five. 461 00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:51,280 Speaker 4: Now we are at fifty. That will not be touched. 462 00:24:51,359 --> 00:24:54,320 Speaker 4: As they say in the industry, visu is sacrosanct. Then 463 00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:58,240 Speaker 4: we have the share baybacks, which are composed of orninary 464 00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:05,480 Speaker 4: distribution and excess capital returns. The entire excess capital we 465 00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:08,520 Speaker 4: have committed to go back to thirteen percent and to 466 00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:10,960 Speaker 4: distribute it back by twenty seven, so you're looking at 467 00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:13,560 Speaker 4: twenty five, twenty six, twenty seven, six and a half 468 00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:15,879 Speaker 4: billion need to go back in the pockets of shareholders. 469 00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:18,919 Speaker 3: In addition to the share by back that is ordinary. 470 00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:22,800 Speaker 4: That allows us to say with confidence that not only 471 00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:25,320 Speaker 4: the dividend will be higher than what it was in 472 00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:27,880 Speaker 4: the last few years, the dividend per share will be higher, 473 00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:33,200 Speaker 4: much higher, but also, the total distribution that this year 474 00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:36,160 Speaker 4: we have guided to eight and a half billion will 475 00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:38,119 Speaker 4: be much higher than this year in the next three 476 00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:41,439 Speaker 4: of course, if we do M and A. We have 477 00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:44,680 Speaker 4: also said we will strive to keep the dividend per 478 00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:49,439 Speaker 4: share unchanged to protect our shareholders, but part of that 479 00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:53,160 Speaker 4: share by back will instead of going to buy our shares, 480 00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:54,639 Speaker 4: to buy the shares of the target. 481 00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:57,120 Speaker 2: Okay, final question in twenty twenty four was a world 482 00:25:57,160 --> 00:26:00,240 Speaker 2: when frankly, just following the news from UNI Credit, think 483 00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:02,000 Speaker 2: by the end of this year you'll you'll be much 484 00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:03,200 Speaker 2: bigger through an acquisition. 485 00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:06,040 Speaker 3: I am optimistic that we will. 486 00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:10,000 Speaker 4: Actually more than fifty to fifty, more than fifty to fifty. 487 00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:12,159 Speaker 2: We have to leave it here, but I have so 488 00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:13,240 Speaker 2: many more questions. 489 00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:16,320 Speaker 3: Commerce Bank or. 490 00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:20,280 Speaker 4: The other one I don't know will see Okay, good 491 00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:21,200 Speaker 4: sport and enjoying ur chill. 492 00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:22,440 Speaker 2: Thank you so much for joining us. 493 00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:24,440 Speaker 3: Thank you very much. Thanks you M