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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Markets Podcast. I'm Paul Sweeney alongside

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Speaker 1: my co host Matt Miller. Every business day, we bring

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Speaker 1: you interviews from CEOs, market pros, and Bloomberg experts, along

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Speaker 1: with essential market moving news. Find the Bloomberg Markets Podcast

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Speaker 1: on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts, and

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Speaker 1: at Bloomberg dot com slash podcast. Let's keep on that

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Speaker 1: Netflix team, shall we. They report earnings next week, and

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Speaker 1: that's usually a big event for the stock. Let's welcome

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Speaker 1: uh keitha wrong Onah and she is the technology and

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Speaker 1: media annalyst at Bloomberg Intelligence. She's been covering this company

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Speaker 1: pretty much since its inception as a public company. Keithan,

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Speaker 1: thanks so much for joining us here. What can we expect?

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Speaker 1: What are investors really looking for when Netflix reports next week? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: thank you so much Paul and Taylor for inviting me

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Speaker 1: to this conversation. So, um, it's going to be a

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Speaker 1: pretty week quarter for Netflix. They have telegraphs that pretty

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Speaker 1: well to investors, so they're expecting about one million editions.

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Speaker 1: This will be the lowest ever for the company in

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Speaker 1: at least ten years, and really it's a factor of

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Speaker 1: many different things. So you had that massive pull forward

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Speaker 1: of demand from last year because of COVID when they

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Speaker 1: reported twenty six million subscribers in the first half of

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Speaker 1: that's usually the number that they report for the whole year.

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Speaker 1: And then you also have, now, you know, the the

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Speaker 1: additional factor of people going wanting to go more outdoors

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Speaker 1: and demanding more out of home entertainment. And then the

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Speaker 1: third thing that we're seeing is that there was obviously

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Speaker 1: the effect of all those production shutdowns, so they had

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Speaker 1: a pretty light content slate into Q, none of their

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Speaker 1: big titles, So it's really the impact of all those

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Speaker 1: three and so a pretty weak quarter is what we're

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Speaker 1: expecting in general. With that weak quarter that we're expecting,

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Speaker 1: it seems like Netflix is trying to get ahead of

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Speaker 1: that announcement and help engagement and help penetration by going

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Speaker 1: into video games. What can we expect from net fille

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Speaker 1: Alla video games? Yeah, I think that's you know, it's

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Speaker 1: it's kind of been in the offering, I think for

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Speaker 1: a little while now, and I think it's really a

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Speaker 1: very natural extension of their content strategy. I think what

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Speaker 1: they're trying to do is to really be a comprehensive

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Speaker 1: entertainment solution and really trying to build more and more

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Speaker 1: engagement as you pointed out, and really more time spent

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Speaker 1: with the platform. Remember a few years ago, when you know,

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Speaker 1: read Hingston's was asked about who their biggest competitor competitor is.

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Speaker 1: He didn't say an Amazon Prime or or even Hbo.

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Speaker 1: He he pointed out Fortnite as being their biggest competitor

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Speaker 1: for time and attention. Um, so that's really kind of

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Speaker 1: what they want. They want to you know, increase engagement,

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Speaker 1: they want to increase time spent. And I think it's

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Speaker 1: it really kind of makes sense that it makes it.

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Speaker 1: It's a huge oportnity for Netflix to be able to

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Speaker 1: differentiate its content offering, boost subscriber engagement, boost retention against

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Speaker 1: all the other streaming players. Keithan talked to us about

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Speaker 1: the competitive environment again. Over the last year, you know,

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Speaker 1: we saw a lot of new players on the streaming business,

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Speaker 1: you know, Disney Plus and Peacock and you know all

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Speaker 1: the others uh that are out there. Give us a

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Speaker 1: sense of how it's shaking out in these early quarters. So, Um,

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Speaker 1: as you pointed out, Paul, I mean, Disney Plus has

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Speaker 1: been a runaway hit, so they have amassed more than

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Speaker 1: hundred million subscribers in you know, just a very short

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Speaker 1: about just about thirteen to fourteen months, so they it's

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Speaker 1: been a blockbuster success for them. Um and of course,

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Speaker 1: as you pointed out, we've had a lot of new

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Speaker 1: players kind of a burst down into the screen. But

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Speaker 1: I think we're kind of seeing, uh, really this come

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Speaker 1: emerged as as as a two horse race, if you will,

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Speaker 1: between Netflix and Disney, but you're also seeing all the

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Speaker 1: other players kind of trying to jockey for scale. So

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Speaker 1: Amazon time very big deals just in the space of

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Speaker 1: you know, the past few weeks. They went out and

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Speaker 1: acquired the NFL Thursday Night games for about eleven to

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Speaker 1: twelve billion dollars and then the NBM studio for another

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Speaker 1: eight and a house dollars. So again they really want

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Speaker 1: to make Prime a talk to your service. Then you

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Speaker 1: then you have HBO Max and the Discovery deal creating

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Speaker 1: a new company, a hundred and fifty billion dollar company.

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Speaker 1: Again HBO Max wanting to kind of break into that uh,

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Speaker 1: top tier streaming offering. So we're definitely going to see

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Speaker 1: a shakeout. I think at the end of the day,

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Speaker 1: we're probably going to see about three or four or

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Speaker 1: five major services Nextlork, Mestics, and Disney and Amazon obviously

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Speaker 1: the top one to three I think among those, and

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Speaker 1: then it's going to be really interesting to see what

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Speaker 1: happens with you know, speak of what happens with viacoms,

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Speaker 1: Paramount plus. I think eventually consolidation is on the card,

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Speaker 1: but we'll have to wait and watch. There seems to

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Speaker 1: be a push pull. We feel like there has to

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Speaker 1: be consolidation because you have to be big to compete.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, we're getting a lot of big anti trust,

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Speaker 1: anti big tech rhetoric out of this administration, saying that

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Speaker 1: they don't like big companies. They want to promote competition.

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Speaker 1: Do you expect deals to get done and and do

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Speaker 1: they get done or they can be tied up in

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Speaker 1: courts for a while. Yeah, So even with the that's

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Speaker 1: a great point. I think even with the Amazon deal,

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Speaker 1: I mean we have the new you know, FTC chair

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Speaker 1: who kind of expressed some reservations about that. But I

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Speaker 1: don't think they're necessarily if you kind of just look

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Speaker 1: at the business that you know, any of these big

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Speaker 1: tech players are in, I don't think they necessarily pose

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Speaker 1: any competitive challenges right Acquiring a studio acquiring a media company. Um. Again,

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Speaker 1: I'm not really sure about how long it could be

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Speaker 1: tied up in courts, but I think ultimately, um, you know,

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Speaker 1: if tex players like an Apple or an Amazon wants

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Speaker 1: to go on studio, I think they should be able

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Speaker 1: to do so without too much hassle. Keith A real

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Speaker 1: quick thirty seconds. Is Netflix still a subscriber growth story?

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Speaker 1: I see the stocks flat year to date. Um, so

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Speaker 1: they have done a really good job, Paul, and kind

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Speaker 1: of moving away a little bit from that over focus

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Speaker 1: on subscribers. They're really now focusing more on free cash

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Speaker 1: flows on margins, and they're showing some real, really good

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Speaker 1: numbers on that front as well. All right, Keithan, thank

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Speaker 1: you so much for joining us. As always, you are

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Speaker 1: our guru for all things t MT. Keith Wrong and Nothing,

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Speaker 1: technology and media analyst for Bloomberg Intelligence joining us on

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Speaker 1: the phone from New Jersey. Uh. I hired Githa back

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Speaker 1: in the day. We worked together for ten days or

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Speaker 1: ten years, and she has just developed into one of

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Speaker 1: the top media and now technology analysts on Wall Street.

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Speaker 1: And we're fortunate to have her and all the other

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Speaker 1: good folks at a Bloomberg intelligence. Let's talk about retail sales.

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Speaker 1: Got some numbers this morning. Came in better than expected.

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Speaker 1: Retail sales came into zero point six percent gain versus

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Speaker 1: a forecast of a zero point three decline. So pretty

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Speaker 1: strong there. Let's get some details on that and some

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Speaker 1: of the other retail issues out there in the U

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Speaker 1: S consumer. We do that with A. G. Solanki, national

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Speaker 1: director for Retail in the US for Collier's International, joins

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Speaker 1: us on the zone from phone from San Francisco and Chie,

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Speaker 1: thanks so much for taking the time, love to get

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Speaker 1: your kind of foot snapshot on the US consumer right

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Speaker 1: here as we slowly come out on the other side

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Speaker 1: of this pandemic. Yeah, thanks for having me. So let's

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Speaker 1: just just dive in. So what we're seeing right now

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Speaker 1: is definitely we saw certain categories in retail I e. Clothing, uh,

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Speaker 1: certain F and B categories, department store sales drop anywhere between,

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Speaker 1: and of course conversely, we saw the e commerce jump in.

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Speaker 1: Right now, we're starting to see a shift. People are

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Speaker 1: definitely coming back strong as it relates to buying power

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Speaker 1: in store, and with that, we're starting to see in

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Speaker 1: certain sectors a rebound. For example, in apparel increase. It's

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Speaker 1: the largest increase we've seen thus far in any category.

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Speaker 1: And also in addition to that, we're starting to see

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Speaker 1: um store expansion. So this is led by the grocery,

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Speaker 1: the home, beauty, and value oriented concepts. So new store

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Speaker 1: openings right now or outpacing store closing, so we're pretty

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Speaker 1: excited about that. How are consumers feeling about paying higher prices?

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Speaker 1: On one hand, you have retail sales that looked relatively

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Speaker 1: strong today, but then you're seeing consumer sentiment fall because

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Speaker 1: inflation expectations in the next year are expected to be

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Speaker 1: the highest since two thousand and eight. Are they willing

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Speaker 1: to pay these higher prices? So there is definitely a

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Speaker 1: concern around that, I think because there's this um you know,

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Speaker 1: kind of the stimulus payment of starting to slowly fade away,

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Speaker 1: so they haven't really put a percent of their mindset

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Speaker 1: into Hey, we're looking at inflation of some sort and pricing,

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Speaker 1: so there's still a spend, a strong spend, and what

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Speaker 1: we're seeing from that strong spend occur is in what

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Speaker 1: I would say more the service oriented side. So going

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Speaker 1: to the getting a massage, going for a pedigure, mannic here,

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Speaker 1: getting your hair done, um, the hair salons, et cetera.

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Speaker 1: So we're still seeing that momentum um. When we I

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Speaker 1: think it will start to fade, maybe we'll probably see

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Speaker 1: those results closer to Q three Q four. So Andie,

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Speaker 1: one of the things we saw from this from the

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Speaker 1: retail perspective during this pandemic is what a lot of

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Speaker 1: folks are saying is just you know, this accelerating growth

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Speaker 1: of e commerce, and maybe it might have pulled maybe

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Speaker 1: two or three years worth of market share gains in

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Speaker 1: terms of e commerce in terms of relative to total

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Speaker 1: re retail sales, maybe poured it, pulled it forward maybe

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Speaker 1: by two or three years. Is that in fact the case?

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Speaker 1: And do you think some of those e commerce gains

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Speaker 1: are here to stay? Um? I don't do not believe

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Speaker 1: they are here to stay. I think they are a

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Speaker 1: part of our shopping journey for any UM consumer. However,

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Speaker 1: what we're starting to see is a bit of a

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Speaker 1: cutback as it relates to e commerce, and our Q

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Speaker 1: two numbers that we're forecasting are roughly around thirteen point

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Speaker 1: six percent compared to Q two so UM, granted, it

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Speaker 1: was kind of an off quarter, but nonetheless we're starting

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Speaker 1: to see a stay realization, and I think that people

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Speaker 1: are still there's still you know, when we look at

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Speaker 1: the square footage in terms of UM per person square

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Speaker 1: footage of retail, it's still pretty significant. People want to

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Speaker 1: be out there. Are we finding enough workers to come

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Speaker 1: back to work? Good question. Yeah, that's that's a great question. Honestly,

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Speaker 1: it's been a big struggle some quick things that we've

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Speaker 1: been hearing, especially with chain restaurants and fast casual. What

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Speaker 1: we're seeing in that, you know, in that area is

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Speaker 1: that it has been a struggle. So what are they doing? Well,

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Speaker 1: they've identified some interesting ways to get around it. First off,

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Speaker 1: we're seeing a lot of the chain restaurants being quite

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Speaker 1: creative with how they're approaching or how they're getting out

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Speaker 1: there to identifying new employees. So we're not seeing too

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Speaker 1: much of an overpaying or arise in wages, but we're

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Speaker 1: seeing some interesting things of how they're kind of connecting

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Speaker 1: with you know this you know, the employees um and

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Speaker 1: that's either through TikTok. So a lot of the brands

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Speaker 1: are starting to use TikTok to um really get the

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Speaker 1: brand awareness out there, to use that as a way

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Speaker 1: of putting out you know, getting resumes in and out

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Speaker 1: UM and trying to tap into kind of that younger set.

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Speaker 1: So that's one. The other thing that we're I found

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Speaker 1: very interesting is that they're actually offering signing bonuses. Some

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Speaker 1: brands are offering signing bonuses UM to get people in.

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Speaker 1: So it's it's we'll start to see some shifts there.

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Speaker 1: But for the most part, specifically when it comes to

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Speaker 1: labor and restaurants, UM, they are still challenged. We're seeing

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Speaker 1: that with kind of reduced menu offerings, reduced operating hours, etcetera. Uh,

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Speaker 1: and so they have to be creative today. I think

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Speaker 1: some of the retailers are pretty creative during this pandemic.

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Speaker 1: One of them was this curbside pickup. That's a pretty

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Speaker 1: cool thing. I kind of enjoy that. Is that going

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Speaker 1: to state? Do you think? Oh? Most definitely. We're actually

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Speaker 1: starting to see um, you know, letters of intent requesting

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Speaker 1: or requiring curbside pick up. So when I was speaking

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Speaker 1: with a variety of national retailers, I said, how is

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Speaker 1: that you helped or not helped having curbside? Is it

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Speaker 1: an added expense? They said, not at all. It's actually

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Speaker 1: a convenience to our customer. And it's another channel of

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Speaker 1: how we can um provide another solution for that that

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Speaker 1: customer where if they don't feel like they want to

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Speaker 1: come into the store and they just want to pick

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Speaker 1: it up curbside, they have that flexibility and so that's

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Speaker 1: really important to them. They've seen a lift in sales

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Speaker 1: anywhere between twelve and FI. Yeah, that's pretty pretty interesting

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Speaker 1: seeing retailers get pretty creative on j Slanki, national director

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Speaker 1: Retail for in the US for Collier's International, giving us

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Speaker 1: her thoughts on the retail landscape again generally pretty strong

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Speaker 1: as consumer confidence continues to rebound. All right, So we

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Speaker 1: are getting right into the meat of this earning season

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Speaker 1: and there's a lot of folks out there. It's a boy,

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Speaker 1: these earnings are really better come through because when you

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Speaker 1: look at valuations, you can make the argument that a

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Speaker 1: lot of these uh parts of the market are overextended

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Speaker 1: from evaluation perspective. Josh Wine, portfolio manager at Hennessey Funds,

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Speaker 1: joins as Josh, I love to get your thoughts on

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Speaker 1: kind of what you need to see, what you expect

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Speaker 1: to see out of this earnings season here as it

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Speaker 1: relates to you know, kind of maybe earnings and valuations

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Speaker 1: in this market. Yeah, it's good to be with you.

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Speaker 1: I have a spell in my face hearing about karaoke

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Speaker 1: and Dolly part and that's a great way to start

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Speaker 1: this out. The world is a better place for my

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Speaker 1: not doing karaoke as well. Um yeah, earning season, uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, certainly want to see the consumer so as

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Speaker 1: as companies roll out earnings. You know, it was very

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Speaker 1: interesting to see bank earnings and I think it was expected,

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Speaker 1: you know, very strong earnings there. But you know, we

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Speaker 1: have a retail sales number today that was well ahead

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Speaker 1: of expectations, and things like clothing and electronics and restaurants

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Speaker 1: were you know, above above average growth and and ahead

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Speaker 1: of expectations. So you know, it is what it is,

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Speaker 1: and it would be great to hear, you know, some guidance.

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Speaker 1: You know, what are you know, companies thinking about, you know,

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Speaker 1: the next quarter. You know, right now we have very

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Speaker 1: easy comparisons to a year ago. But you know, let's see,

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Speaker 1: you know, what it's going to look like in Q

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Speaker 1: four when the comparison is is meaningfully more difficult, and

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Speaker 1: certainly Q one of next year it will be somewhat

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Speaker 1: of a regular comparison to Q one of this year. Josh,

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Speaker 1: how are you investing in this time when you get

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Speaker 1: strong retail sales but then you see consumer sentiment coming

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Speaker 1: really soft given one year inflation expectations are going back

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Speaker 1: the highest since two thousand and eight. How do you

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Speaker 1: take to contradicting factors and invest Yeah, it's interesting because

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Speaker 1: you know, I was looking, you know, the market, you know,

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Speaker 1: twenty times forward earnings, so about a five percent earnings

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Speaker 1: yield against the backdrop of a one three on the tenure.

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Speaker 1: So you know, valuations on average are incredibly compelling. You

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Speaker 1: know that they're basically that's spread the earnings yield versus

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Speaker 1: the ten years were we were before the pandemic started. Uh.

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Speaker 1: That being said, you know, yeah, certainly size matters a

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Speaker 1: lot in this market increasingly so. So you know, a Microsoft,

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Speaker 1: great company, thirty four times forward earnings. When I see that,

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Speaker 1: and they're growing quite nicely, but I think to myself

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Speaker 1: that the market definitely places a premium on growth. I

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Speaker 1: think more so in the case of a Microsoft, it's

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Speaker 1: not only a great balance, but just the size and

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Speaker 1: the liquidity. So I think that there's definitely a size

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Speaker 1: and liquidity story, and what gets blocked out by that

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Speaker 1: by that sun is you know, kind of midcaps with

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Speaker 1: a similar valuation story and you know, compelling growth, but

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Speaker 1: certainly the multiples are not there, and I think that

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Speaker 1: you know in that lies you know a great opportunity. Josh,

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Speaker 1: where are you and your team at Hennessey Advisors in

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Speaker 1: Chapel Hill, North Carolina. I don't know why you didn't

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Speaker 1: locate in Durham Superior University down there, but anyway, what

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Speaker 1: are you and your team doing in terms of work

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Speaker 1: right now? What are the areas you're focusing on? Sure? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so I would point you know, in our Hennessy Cornerstone

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Speaker 1: mad Cap thirty fund, where we're looking at valuation, earnings,

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Speaker 1: growth and stock price momentum. And where that leads us

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Speaker 1: is a lot of the consumer names that you know,

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Speaker 1: don't get the attention of of you know, maybe like

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Speaker 1: a Costco or a Starbucks. You know, these are MidCap names,

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Speaker 1: UH companies like Mattel, Big Lots UH and Meritage Homes,

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Speaker 1: so you know, strong free cash flow generating companies, you know,

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Speaker 1: strong balance sheets. The multiples are interesting to me because

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Speaker 1: I think these are for the most part well known names.

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Speaker 1: But you know, Big Lots trading at nine times for earnings,

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Speaker 1: Mattel at sixteen times, Meritage at about six times for earnings. So, uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, I think that that you know, value can

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Speaker 1: be its own catalyst. And and I don't think a

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Speaker 1: lot of people agree with that, but I think that

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Speaker 1: these names, they are strong names, and they will live

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Speaker 1: to see another day and and at some point investors

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Speaker 1: will inevitable a U turn their attention towards these overlooked

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Speaker 1: type names. What is the path forward for interest rates? It?

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Speaker 1: Does it have to go higher from here? How are

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Speaker 1: you thinking about that? Yeah? I think about it a lot.

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Speaker 1: So I've covered equities in in some way, shape or

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Speaker 1: form for about twenty five years, and I've never paid

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Speaker 1: that much attention to the bondo market as much as

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Speaker 1: I do now. And first of all, you know, the

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Speaker 1: bond market to me, you know, there might be some

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Speaker 1: Obviously the FED is gets in the way of maybe

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Speaker 1: true price discovery to a large degree, but the bond

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Speaker 1: market is telling me that maybe we are borrowing some

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Speaker 1: growth from future quarters now that we've reopened, and there's

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Speaker 1: this delayed wealth effects, so people are out spending money,

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Speaker 1: and uh, you know, you see that if you just

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Speaker 1: walk down any and he needs, you know, any street

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Speaker 1: in this country probably, And uh so, I think that

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Speaker 1: we've been saying for so many years now that rates

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Speaker 1: have to go higher, and every year that becomes less

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Speaker 1: and less true, and and so yeah, I don't think

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Speaker 1: they have to go higher. I think rates, you know,

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Speaker 1: versus overseas rates are are somewhat elevated in the United States.

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Speaker 1: And when I look at overseas markets and economies they

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Speaker 1: are in no, they are not nearly as good a

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Speaker 1: shape as we are here in the United States for

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Speaker 1: the most part. So I think that we have a

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Speaker 1: lot to contend with overseas and in emerging markets, and

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Speaker 1: I don't know how sustainable things could ever be if

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Speaker 1: we don't get those economies reopened and functioning properly. So

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Speaker 1: you know, I'm not going to make any prediction on

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Speaker 1: the tenure or bonds in general, but you know, I

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Speaker 1: don't think rates have to go higher at all, and

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Speaker 1: I think they could go a little bit lower. All right, Josh,

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Speaker 1: thank you so much. We appreciate that. As always Josh

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Speaker 1: Way and he's a portfolio manager at Tennessee Funds giving

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Speaker 1: us his thoughts on the market. Uh. Here it remains

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Speaker 1: bullish here, but earnings coming in fast and furious will

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Speaker 1: continue next week. We had the banks this week, as

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Speaker 1: Josh mentioned, coming in pretty starn solid. But we're gonna

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Speaker 1: have some tech. We're gonna have some consumer names next

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Speaker 1: week that will continue the narrative on earnings and this market.

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Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg looking at Moderna here stock is up

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Speaker 1: nine point eight percent all time high four dollars. Uh

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Speaker 1: it's got sporting a market cap of a hundred and

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Speaker 1: fourteen billion dollars included today in the SMP five hundred,

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Speaker 1: of course, manufacturer of the Moderna vaccine, which has been

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Speaker 1: so successful for so many patients for this COVID. Let's

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Speaker 1: get a sense of what's going on at this company.

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Speaker 1: That's now you probably started the you know, two years ago,

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Speaker 1: nobody really knew about it. Now it's a household name.

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Speaker 1: John Murphy, he's a pharmaceutical analyst for Bloomberg Intelligence based

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Speaker 1: in London. He joins us, John, tell us about this company.

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Speaker 1: Give us a thirty thou foot overview of what this

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Speaker 1: company really is. We know it, as you know, a

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Speaker 1: manufacturer of a very effective vaccine. But give us a

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Speaker 1: sense of what this company is about. Sure, yeah, nice

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Speaker 1: to join you. Actually you summed it up very nice.

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Speaker 1: That we hadn't really heard about this company, had we

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Speaker 1: a couple of years ago. Now it has been around since,

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Speaker 1: but only came to the market in two thousand and eighteen,

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Speaker 1: and it was a I guess a bit of a

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Speaker 1: minnow then, although at the time it created a splash

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Speaker 1: because it's i p O was seven and a half billion,

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Speaker 1: so for a biotech that that was quite significant. So

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Speaker 1: M R and A based a vaccine focused looking at

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Speaker 1: a number of different infectious diseases. You could argue they

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Speaker 1: maybe got a little bit lucky or got a big

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Speaker 1: leg up when COVID came along, because clearly there was

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Speaker 1: a lot of cash that that came their way. But

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Speaker 1: they have for for a number of years been looking

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Speaker 1: at areas such as flu rs V, side of megalovirus,

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Speaker 1: so really looking to to develop a broad pipeline of

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Speaker 1: of vaccines in the anti infective space. And again, as

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Speaker 1: I said, they clearly benefited from COVID here in terms

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Speaker 1: of getting an acceleration in development. And I guess the

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Speaker 1: question now is after COVID, where do things go? That

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Speaker 1: is the question. What is the future for this company.

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Speaker 1: We had a great conversation earlier this week talking about

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Speaker 1: using at m R and a technology for cancer for HIV.

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Speaker 1: I mean, the hopes here are so high. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: think you're exactly right now. And and you know what,

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Speaker 1: sometimes I think, um, and it's kind of natural that

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Speaker 1: when you see a new technology, expectations initially are high,

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Speaker 1: they get they then they get a little bit disappointed,

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Speaker 1: if you like, when when these high expectations aren't met.

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Speaker 1: And now we're kind of going up to that to

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Speaker 1: that peak again. So I think if you look at

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Speaker 1: the anti infective areas again, as I mentioned the lights

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Speaker 1: of flu, rs V, sites of megalovirus, these are probably

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Speaker 1: more realistic in the next three to five years to

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Speaker 1: see them come out with a product. I'm pretty long

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Speaker 1: in the tooth, and I can tell you twenty years

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Speaker 1: ago we were talking about cancer vaccines. We've not seen

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Speaker 1: them come through. I wouldn't be betting my money on

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Speaker 1: on cancer delivering something there. HIV again looks like a

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Speaker 1: pretty difficult area. But although maybe not not as not

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Speaker 1: a sexy, not as attractive rs V side of megalovirus,

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Speaker 1: these are five to ten billion dollar markets, so it's

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Speaker 1: a very very large from that perspective. All right, I'd

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Speaker 1: love to talk about the economics of the vaccine. I'm

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Speaker 1: looking at the f A function on the Bloomberg terminal,

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Speaker 1: which gives the income statement balance you all the good

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Speaker 1: stuff you would need for financial analysis on m r

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Speaker 1: n A, which is the MODERNA symbol. Eight hundred million

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Speaker 1: dollars in revenue in analysts estimate eighteen point six billion.

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Speaker 1: Is all of that the vaccine. Talked to us about

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Speaker 1: the economics for MODERNA of this vaccine. They're not given

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Speaker 1: it away, are they? It is all the vaccine. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that that is essentially that is essentially a pent You're

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Speaker 1: absolutely that is the vaccine. And I think the big

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Speaker 1: question as well, because as you said in your introduction,

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Speaker 1: you've got you've got to stop. Here is a hundred

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Speaker 1: and fourteen hundred and fifteen billion dollar market cat what

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Speaker 1: is the sustainability of that income? So can we factor

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Speaker 1: into our numbers what it's going to do. Is it're

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Speaker 1: gonna do twenty billion again next year for example, give

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Speaker 1: or take the company says it can do, and then

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Speaker 1: what happens in a couple of years after that in

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00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:02,840
Speaker 1: terms of in the to the actual the actual economics.

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00:23:03,359 --> 00:23:05,919
Speaker 1: They don't release or tell you exactly what they're charging,

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00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:10,080
Speaker 1: but you can estimate it's a shop here. Um. And

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00:23:10,119 --> 00:23:13,000
Speaker 1: of course they're going to have some associated costs marketing costs,

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00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:15,000
Speaker 1: they've got the R and D costs. But it's going

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00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:19,080
Speaker 1: to be relatively profitable for them in the high income markets, certainly,

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00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:21,480
Speaker 1: But like a lot of a lot of their competitors,

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00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:24,880
Speaker 1: this is being provided at cost to the low income markets.

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Speaker 1: And Kovacs for example. You know, John, I'm smart enough

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00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:30,280
Speaker 1: to know that I should not be going toe to

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00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:33,640
Speaker 1: toe with Mr Paul Sweeney on level two income statement

440
00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:36,960
Speaker 1: analysis for the c f A. What I can ask you, though,

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00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:39,959
Speaker 1: is take us away a little bit from fundamentals, and

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00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:42,560
Speaker 1: you have a stock that's now included in the S

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00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:46,480
Speaker 1: and P five hundred. What are you hearing from We

444
00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:49,920
Speaker 1: know their portfolios that track the S and P that

445
00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:52,399
Speaker 1: now have to buy the stock. How much of that

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00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:55,280
Speaker 1: is also included in a move that's now up ten

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00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:58,720
Speaker 1: on the day. Yeah, Now, I think I think you're

448
00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:01,639
Speaker 1: exactly right, and I think that's exactly what it should

449
00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:04,280
Speaker 1: be linked to today's move. I think we've seen it before,

450
00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:06,480
Speaker 1: because you get the fact that there's a number of

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00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:10,000
Speaker 1: index passive funds. You've also got mutual funds, for example,

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00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:13,040
Speaker 1: that index themselves against the SMP. And you guys have

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00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:15,800
Speaker 1: no better than me. But I understand there's in excess

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00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:19,240
Speaker 1: of ten trillion dollars that is index or benchmark to

455
00:24:19,280 --> 00:24:21,760
Speaker 1: the SMP. Now, not all of those have to go

456
00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:24,359
Speaker 1: out and buy the stock today. But again we've seen

457
00:24:24,359 --> 00:24:26,359
Speaker 1: it before. You get a spike for the first couple

458
00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:29,000
Speaker 1: of days, and then it normally settles down. Maybe with

459
00:24:29,119 --> 00:24:31,560
Speaker 1: Maderna because we've had this phenomenal run, maybe it doesn't

460
00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:34,240
Speaker 1: settle down as quickly, but that's what you that's certainly

461
00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:37,639
Speaker 1: what you do. Tend tend to see m r N

462
00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:40,720
Speaker 1: a technology that's now entered the lexicon for a lot

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00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:43,720
Speaker 1: of people as we've kind of dealt through this pandemic.

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00:24:44,119 --> 00:24:46,120
Speaker 1: Give us a sense of who the players are here

465
00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:49,800
Speaker 1: besides moderna And you know, is this is this something

466
00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:54,080
Speaker 1: that we need to pay attention to going forward, this technology? Yes,

467
00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:56,520
Speaker 1: I think that's a really important question, a great point

468
00:24:56,560 --> 00:24:58,639
Speaker 1: to bring up, and and the reason for that is

469
00:24:59,840 --> 00:25:01,639
Speaker 1: the was a lot of talk about this. There's a

470
00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:05,600
Speaker 1: lot of buzzwords go around in pharmaceuticals, in science, and

471
00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:08,240
Speaker 1: they talk about new technologies and what they're going to deliver,

472
00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:10,280
Speaker 1: and a lot of times there's a lot of a

473
00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:12,800
Speaker 1: lot of talk, but they don't tend to deliver. Now,

474
00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:15,240
Speaker 1: now this is absolutely not the case here. But we've

475
00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:18,800
Speaker 1: really got two leaders here. We've got Maderna on one side,

476
00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:21,760
Speaker 1: and we've got by on Tech, the German company with

477
00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:25,200
Speaker 1: whom Fiser is partnered. They're the two leaders. They're a

478
00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:27,520
Speaker 1: long way out, and it's interesting. There's a lot of

479
00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:31,240
Speaker 1: others and making moves or saying we want to get involved.

480
00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:33,560
Speaker 1: Fiser themselves that said they might start up their own

481
00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:36,360
Speaker 1: their own area. Glaxo had mentioned that, Santa Fe had

482
00:25:36,359 --> 00:25:39,359
Speaker 1: mentioned it, but it takes a number of years to

483
00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:42,760
Speaker 1: really get get to understand the technology and make the

484
00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:45,440
Speaker 1: appropriate investments. So at the moment these guys are out

485
00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:48,240
Speaker 1: on their own, how much of a lead, maybe four

486
00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:50,600
Speaker 1: to five years of the lead something like that. But

487
00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:52,919
Speaker 1: but clearly it's an area that is going to be

488
00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:58,320
Speaker 1: super important going forward for vaccines. Finally, just quickly here,

489
00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:00,919
Speaker 1: I'm thinking, what does this means? Are other sort of

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00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:04,040
Speaker 1: biotech companies that are also racing along with Maderna and

491
00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:07,240
Speaker 1: and you sort of have these big pharmaceutical companies that

492
00:26:07,280 --> 00:26:10,280
Speaker 1: are making big bats on some of these unprofitable companies

493
00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:12,959
Speaker 1: at the time. But all they need is is one

494
00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:17,080
Speaker 1: big grand slam. Yeah, I'm a guess, and you know,

495
00:26:17,359 --> 00:26:19,760
Speaker 1: the drug companies, the investors, all of us, right, if

496
00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:21,640
Speaker 1: we're looking at things like that, if you can, if

497
00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:24,240
Speaker 1: you can pick out, pick out that grand slam. Absolutely,

498
00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:27,120
Speaker 1: and that's why a lot of companies are paying huge

499
00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:30,040
Speaker 1: amounts and some some cases people would say over paying

500
00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:34,000
Speaker 1: for the new technologies. It's not easy to be able

501
00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:36,960
Speaker 1: to pick out unfortunately. So I think this is great

502
00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:39,800
Speaker 1: for the sector going in today. It gets people to

503
00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:43,000
Speaker 1: focus on a sector that maybe they've not looked at before. Hey, John,

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00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:45,359
Speaker 1: thanks so much for joining us. Really appreciate your insight

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Speaker 1: and expertise. John Murphy's a pharmaceutical analysts for Bloomberg Intelligence

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Speaker 1: based in London, giving us the latest on moderna. This

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00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:56,600
Speaker 1: is Bloomberg. Thanks for listening to the Bloomberg Markets podcast.

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00:26:57,000 --> 00:27:00,240
Speaker 1: You can subscribe and listen to interviews with Apple Podcasts

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00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:04,240
Speaker 1: or whatever podcast platform you prefer. I'm Matt Miller. I'm

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00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:08,280
Speaker 1: on Twitter at Matt Miller three and I fall Sweeney.

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00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:10,960
Speaker 1: I'm on Twitter at pt Sweeney. Before the podcast, you

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00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:13,399
Speaker 1: can always catch us worldwide at Bloomberg Radio