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Speaker 1: Murder in Oregon is a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: I told you that Mike was a no hostage personality,

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Speaker 2: and he told me that many times. He says, I

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Speaker 2: don't believe in hostages.

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Speaker 3: I traveled to Salem to meet with Phil Kevin and

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Speaker 3: Pat in person.

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Speaker 4: Hello.

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Speaker 3: Kevin recalled an old story about Mike that actually made

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Speaker 3: a local paper and pretty much summed up his attitude

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Speaker 3: about surviving a threat.

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Speaker 4: In nineteen seventy six, as a story about the assistant

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Speaker 4: Attorney General from New Mexico who was up at Long

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Speaker 4: Beach Naval Station during his naval reserve time that had

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Speaker 4: picked up a couple of people outside the naval base.

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Speaker 2: There were transport boxes. This is what they would call

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Speaker 2: a sumshit like that. If people needed to ride, you'd

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Speaker 2: sit in there and you could pick them up and

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Speaker 2: take them wherever they needed to go, assuming they were

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Speaker 2: with the baby base.

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Speaker 4: And Mike picked up this couple.

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Speaker 2: The gal was in front and the guy was in back,

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Speaker 2: and they pulled a knife on Mike and put it

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Speaker 2: to his throat and said we're going to kill you

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Speaker 2: and take your car and give me a wallet. Mike

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Speaker 2: gave him the wallet, and next thing you know. Mike

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Speaker 2: bailed out of the car, said you got the car,

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Speaker 2: you got my wallet? Fuck you, and that was it. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's driving down the street and he bailed. Somebody nearby said,

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Speaker 2: grab the fucking wheel, Grab the fucking wheel.

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Speaker 3: Mike Frankie jumped from a moving vehicle to avoid becoming

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Speaker 3: a victim. It's pretty hard to believe someone like that

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Speaker 3: could be robbed or attacked without putting up a serious fight.

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Speaker 4: He was not going to.

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Speaker 2: Be in a hosty situation regardless, even with a knife

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Speaker 2: at his throat. If you kill me or cut me,

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Speaker 2: at least I've got a chance if I'm out and

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Speaker 2: away from the situation. And I tried to plug this

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Speaker 2: in to everybody, Mike's not going to be taken has

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Speaker 2: so he's going to figure it way out. You do

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Speaker 2: anything and everything to get out of the situation, regardless

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Speaker 2: of cost.

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Speaker 3: What's more, Mike was cool headed under pressure. He even

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Speaker 3: kept Kevin out of more than a few barroom brawls.

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Speaker 2: That's where the Mike frankism came in, because you don't

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Speaker 2: know if the son of a bush has got a

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Speaker 2: knife or a gun. So if you're going in there

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Speaker 2: with your fist, you might get your head cut off.

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Speaker 2: The fact that he would grab somebody who in their

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Speaker 2: right mind thinks that Mike gives a shit about anything

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Speaker 2: they're going to steal out of a state car.

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Speaker 3: Seriously, here's Phil Stanford's take.

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Speaker 5: I think there's an argument to be made that it

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Speaker 5: would have been a tough fight because Michael Frank was

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Speaker 5: very physical and he knew how to handle himself. But

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Speaker 5: to me, that's a secondary argument because there's no evidence

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Speaker 5: there was a fight, that's the thing. Not at the car.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and you would have thought, particularly given Mike's size,

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Speaker 3: that something would have gotten dented.

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Speaker 5: Whether he was big or small, there would have been

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Speaker 5: evidence of a fight on the ground inside the car,

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Speaker 5: outside the car, there was no physical evidence.

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Speaker 3: Alice Clawson, Mike's assistant director, told me she was instructed

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Speaker 3: to go to the state police before she went to

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Speaker 3: go see then Governor Goldschmidt the night of Mike's murder.

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Speaker 6: I mean I looked inside the car that night and

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Speaker 6: I told the state police this. I said, everything looks

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Speaker 6: exactly the way it did this afternoon at lunch, you know,

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Speaker 6: as best I could remember. I mean, it didn't look

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Speaker 6: like anything was.

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Speaker 3: Disturbed, and she told them, you need to take my fingerprints.

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Speaker 6: Because I was with Michael in his car this afternoon,

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Speaker 6: and at least you'd know whatever other prints there are.

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Speaker 6: And they didn't do it.

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Speaker 3: I never took your fingerprints. No, I'm Lauren Bright Pacheco

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Speaker 3: and this is murdering Oregon. The three Frankie brothers grew

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Speaker 3: up close in what seems like a quintessential American, almost

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Speaker 3: Norman Rockwell upbringing. Here's Pat.

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Speaker 4: I kind of were very close growing up. Did a

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Speaker 4: lot of stuff together. Ran away together?

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Speaker 6: You ran away?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, we packed up some bloony sandwiches and decided we

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Speaker 4: were going to run away. I think we made it

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Speaker 4: two blocks up to a water tower, and when we

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Speaker 4: couldn't see the house anymore, we got scared and went home.

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Speaker 4: Oh lord, that's maybe ten, so he would have been seven.

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Speaker 4: We sledded, we skated, we played ball together, and it

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Speaker 4: was a huge neighbor But this is after the war.

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Speaker 4: There were tons of kids in the neighborhood and no

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Speaker 4: fences in the backyards. We've played Captured the Flag and

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Speaker 4: War and all of those games until well into the night.

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Speaker 3: Boy energy abounded in the Frankie household, but both parents

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Speaker 3: were quick to reel it in.

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Speaker 2: Neither one would shut away from discipline. I'll put it

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Speaker 2: that way. Whoever got to you first was the discipline

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Speaker 2: area it was. It was never gets home. He says,

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Speaker 2: your dad's got a miss to clean up. When he

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Speaker 2: gets hold, and he's going to be even more pissed.

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Speaker 2: We all had different names when Dad would talk. I

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Speaker 2: was Jesus Christ, Pat, Mike Kevin, and Mike was Jesus

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Speaker 2: Christ Pat Mike, and Pat was Jesus Christ Pat.

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Speaker 4: Listen, I broke trail.

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Speaker 2: For all of art, you'd forget I broke trail, and

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Speaker 2: his mind would have to go through this step category

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Speaker 2: because he was so enraged until he hit the right person.

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Speaker 4: He was mad at machine.

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Speaker 2: So I was always Jesus Christ, Mark, Pat Kevin.

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Speaker 3: It's also easy to see where Mike's pulled to law

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Speaker 3: and order came from.

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Speaker 4: We were all alter boys, all day boy scouts. I

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Speaker 4: was a boy scout, Mike was a boy scout. I

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Speaker 4: was a boy scout and trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly Curtis

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Speaker 4: can be a cheerful surfing break, okay.

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Speaker 3: But while the Frankies were raised good Catholic boys, they

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Speaker 3: certainly didn't sport Halo's.

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Speaker 4: Mike and and his good friend with a shock cop

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Speaker 4: after a football game. Does anybody know what a cop is?

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Speaker 4: Take your shoes off, go dance on the basketball or

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Speaker 4: Mike and his friend Bulldog was his name, got into

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Speaker 4: beef with some of the guys at the Southwest and

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Speaker 4: they beat the hell out of him. Mike and Bulldog

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Speaker 4: were successful in their encounter. How's that? So he goes

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Speaker 4: away to college the second year, and I think he

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Speaker 4: came back for Christmas and he's ad a mixer and

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Speaker 4: he said he'd been drinking bourbon and he could never

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Speaker 4: drink bourbon after that night.

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Speaker 2: He could never drink hard liquor. He sucked at drinking

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Speaker 2: hard liquor.

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Speaker 4: He'd give it go. No, he didn't give it a go.

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Speaker 4: Let's go ahead and come in again. He was drunk

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Speaker 4: drinking bourbon that night, having a pretty good time in

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Speaker 4: this gallon. They're walking out the door and sobody tapped

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Speaker 4: him on the shoulder and says, aren't you Mike, Frankie?

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Speaker 4: And he turned around. This guy popped him and he

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Speaker 4: and two of his friends proceed to kick the ship

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Speaker 4: out of Mike, and then the process kicked his nose

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Speaker 4: into his face, never a dull moment, quight to fight

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Speaker 4: and wrestle.

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Speaker 3: Phil Stafford believes that toughness came with the territory.

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Speaker 5: Just because of where they grew up and at the

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Speaker 5: time they grew up. Kansas City was part of the

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Speaker 5: sort of the beginning of the West.

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Speaker 3: It's cowboy country.

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Speaker 5: Well, yeah, it's a different mentality. It's not like growing

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Speaker 5: up in upstate New York or something like that. That's the

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Speaker 5: way they see themselves. They're not going to back down

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Speaker 5: from a fight. Not Pat, not Mike, not Kevin.

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Speaker 3: Their close knit upbringing bonded the brothers and made inconsistencies

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Speaker 3: in the early reports of Mike's murder that much more glaring.

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Speaker 3: Kevin remembers the initial call from Dick Peterson, one of

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Speaker 3: Mike's senior staffers.

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Speaker 2: The whole scenario just seemed absolutely wrong and impossible to

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Speaker 2: begin with. You know, Peterson told me on the phone

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Speaker 2: when I was in Florida that he'd been shot, and

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Speaker 2: I thought, Jesus, you know that was even worse. But

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Speaker 2: I get out here and then no, they think he

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Speaker 2: might have been stabbed.

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Speaker 3: That discrepancy would trigger a memory about something Mike told

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Speaker 3: Kevin over the phone when discussing his new job.

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Speaker 2: He had to clean house and he had to get

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Speaker 2: start surrounding himself with people he could trust about having

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Speaker 2: trouble getting rid of a guy that worked for him,

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Speaker 2: And I said, why don't you just fire him? And

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Speaker 2: he says, I can't fire him. He doesn't work for me.

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Speaker 2: And I said, well, how does he work for you?

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Speaker 2: He's appointed to work for me, but he doesn't work

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Speaker 2: for me.

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Speaker 3: That conversation, an initial confusion about how Mike died, foreshadowed

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Speaker 3: the tone for the investigation. According to Phil Stanford.

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Speaker 5: The person who had called him to tell him about

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Speaker 5: his brother's death, Dick Peterson, the deputy director, had said,

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Speaker 5: give me a call. I'll help you anytime. Once Kevin

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Speaker 5: got out there, he called him, and then Peterson never

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Speaker 5: returned to call. I think Kevin said he called him

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Speaker 5: five times, and before he finally gave up, he knew

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Speaker 5: from the beginning that they were not going to help.

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Speaker 3: He was going to have to fight for any information

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Speaker 3: he was going to get.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Phil also explains the office dynamic and ranking.

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Speaker 5: Peterson was too Calley was the chief financial officer. I

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Speaker 5: think they were both called assistant directors.

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Speaker 3: There had already been some kind of staff shake up

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Speaker 3: within the department.

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Speaker 5: Frankie had already informed others that he didn't trust Peterson,

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Speaker 5: he was going to get rid of him. He'd already

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Speaker 5: informed Collie that he was going to lose his job.

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Speaker 5: But just over a week before that, another very significant

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Speaker 5: memory of the Corrections department was forced out of office. Officially,

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Speaker 5: he resigned, but it was because Michael Frankie had written

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Speaker 5: to the governor and asked for this person to be replaced.

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Speaker 5: And we're talking about Scott McAllister, who was the ag

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Speaker 5: lawyer who had for the previous twelve or thirteen years

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Speaker 5: been assigned to Corrections, and so that's the third member

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Speaker 5: of that collection of Department of Corrections officers on the

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Speaker 5: outs with Frankie.

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Speaker 3: McAllister's name would come up again after the murder when

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Speaker 3: Kevin questioned Mike's wife about the employee he was having

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Speaker 3: issues getting rid.

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Speaker 4: Of identified him through what binked in I had talked

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Speaker 4: about the first morning I got in here and identified

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Speaker 4: that individual as Scott McAllister, who was an assistant Attorney

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Speaker 4: General that was assigned by the Attorney General's office to

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Speaker 4: do all the litigation work for the Department of Corrections.

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Speaker 3: Scott McCallister is a key player in the theory. Both

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Speaker 3: Phil Stamford and Kevin Frankie have spent thirty years pursuing

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Speaker 3: regarding Mike's murder. Here's Mike's assistant director, Elise Clawson.

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Speaker 6: Scott was our assistant age and Scott was there a lot.

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Speaker 6: I do remember one point after a meeting with Scott McAllister,

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Speaker 6: Michael said, I'm not sure I have confidence in his recommendation,

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Speaker 6: something to that effect. He was not particularly comfortable with

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Speaker 6: whatever it was Scott was recommending.

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Speaker 3: After McAllister left Corrections, some may have felt more loyal

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Speaker 3: to him and the old boys system than Frankie, especially

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Speaker 3: since Mike was planning to clean house.

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Speaker 6: There had been issues in the prison system that he

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Speaker 6: discovered and wanted to remedy. I think he made a

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Speaker 6: number of people in the department comfortable, probably the head

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Speaker 6: of Prisons, Dick Peterson, and I think some of the superintendents,

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Speaker 6: because he was a take charge kind of guy and

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Speaker 6: they had been pretty independent actors up until then, and

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Speaker 6: that wasn't probably going to be the case for him.

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Speaker 6: Dave Colly, who was the budget head. I think he

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Speaker 6: made him a bit nervous as well, because Michael had

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Speaker 6: the ability to pay lots of attention to that and

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Speaker 6: had a very strong grasp on that kind of information,

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Speaker 6: in those kind of details.

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Speaker 3: And in particular, Clawson is still troubled by the dynamic

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Speaker 3: with Dick Peterson, Mike's deputy director.

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Speaker 6: I can't tell you why, but I always had an

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Speaker 6: uncomfortable feeling about Dick Peterson. I didn't have a lot

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Speaker 6: of confidence in him, and I know that Michael didn't.

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Speaker 6: In fact, I know that Michael was contemplating and replacing him.

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Speaker 6: He seemed very anxious after Michael was built. Dick Peterson

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Speaker 6: course is dead now, but he just always seemed kind

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Speaker 6: of nervous and anxious and didn't quite ever figure out

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Speaker 6: what that was about.

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Speaker 3: Here's an interesting side note about Peterson from former state

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Speaker 3: Representative Chuck Sides.

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Speaker 7: The tours through the prison was so interesting to me

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Speaker 7: because Dick Peterson had worked for my mother many years.

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Speaker 7: She worked for him. Actually, if you knew my mother,

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Speaker 7: he was working for her. Very nice guy. But inside

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Speaker 7: the prison I saw a whole different side doing. If

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Speaker 7: he got a stare from some cod he'd say excuse me, Chuck.

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Speaker 7: He would get that guy against the wall, face to

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Speaker 7: face inches and said, you were looked at me or

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Speaker 7: anybody else like that. You're going to salter in harsher

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Speaker 7: terms than I just described. Let me go back to walking.

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Speaker 3: Dick Peterson and Dave Cowley were the first to search

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Speaker 3: the building looking for Mike. Frankie Kevin believes they were

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Speaker 3: both fully expecting to find Mike's body that night, not

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Speaker 3: where it wound up.

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Speaker 2: It was supposed to look like a suicide and arranged suicide.

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Speaker 2: And Dick Peterson, one of the good old boys from

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Speaker 2: Oregon all those years, tells me the morning that he

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Speaker 2: finds out that he's dead, that he was shot when

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Speaker 2: he went to the Dome Building with Dave Caley that

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Speaker 2: night that they got the call that Mike's car door

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Speaker 2: was found open. He wanted Collie with him as a witness,

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Speaker 2: and he walked into the Dome Building expecting to find

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Speaker 2: Mike with his brains blown out.

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Speaker 4: In his office.

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Speaker 2: Of that, I am sure, and he probably freaked out

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Speaker 2: when he walked back to his office and there was

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Speaker 2: no mic there and there's no blood there.

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Speaker 3: Dick Peterson would claim that the two men had performed

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Speaker 3: in exhaustive search throughout the entire building, every single nook

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Speaker 3: and cranny, going all the way up to the third floor,

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Speaker 3: Yet they missed Mike's body on the front North Portico.

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Speaker 3: According to Phil Kevin's arranged suicide theory, maybe much more

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Speaker 3: than a hunch.

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Speaker 5: There's no way he could have noticed that the window

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Speaker 5: hadn't been broken out, and there were broken pieces of

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Speaker 5: glasses in that room.

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Speaker 3: Right A lease claws and left with this horrible feeling

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Speaker 3: that something was really wrong.

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Speaker 5: And they tried to call Dave Colly, who was an

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Speaker 5: assistant director in charge of financial matters. Turns out he

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Speaker 5: was home, but he didn't answer the phone. He says

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Speaker 5: he was watching TV and didn't hear it.

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Speaker 8: Ring.

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Speaker 5: About an hour later he got another call, which he

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Speaker 5: obviously did hear, and he came in. You have to

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Speaker 5: remember Cally was the last guy in the Department of

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Speaker 5: Corrections as far as we know, who saw Michael Frankie alive.

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Speaker 5: He left the building at six forty five. He came

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Speaker 5: back eight thirty nine, something like that, and it's sort

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Speaker 5: of remarkable. He went to his office and started making

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Speaker 5: phone calls. This is after he'd been told that Michael

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Speaker 5: Frankie was missing. His car door was found open. He

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Speaker 5: didn't go to Michael Frankie's office to see if he

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Speaker 5: was there. It's hard to explain why. His explanation to

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Speaker 5: the police shortly afterwards was that he was afraid he

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Speaker 5: would find Michael Frankie's body in his office, that he

295
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Speaker 5: was afraid that Michael Frankie had committed suicide, that he

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Speaker 5: was distraught over the breakup of his marriage, and so

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Speaker 5: he didn't go to Michael Frankie's office looking for him.

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Speaker 5: After he got to the Dome Building, he called Dick Peterson.

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Speaker 5: Dick Peterson came by the Dome Building.

300
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Speaker 3: And suicide doesn't sit well with Elise Clawson, who says

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Speaker 3: Mike wasn't despondent, but rather open and pragmatic about his separation.

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Speaker 6: I would say Michael was pretty stoic. Came into my

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Speaker 6: office and said something like, it's been a tough morning.

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Speaker 6: I think you should take your boss to lunch, and

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Speaker 6: I said, okay, So we left for lunch, and he

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Speaker 6: said I took Thinka, his wife to the airport today.

307
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Speaker 6: She's leaving me and she'd gone.

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Speaker 3: And she says Mike was focused on his presentation for

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Speaker 3: the next morning, not personal issues. The day he was murdered,

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Speaker 3: he said, I wish we were.

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Speaker 6: In the same session, because I think he was going

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Speaker 6: to be in the Senate testifying and I was going

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Speaker 6: to be in the House testifying. And he said, before

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Speaker 6: the end of the day, let's just kind of practice

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Speaker 6: and talk about our various testimonies and our strategies.

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Speaker 3: Did you get the chance to practice with him later

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Speaker 3: that day?

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Speaker 6: I did at the end of the day, when I

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Speaker 6: was done, I went in his office and we talked

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Speaker 6: through a bunch of stuff and kind of what we

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Speaker 6: were going to do and what our process was going

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Speaker 6: to be and how we were going to approach it.

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Speaker 3: But back to the meticulous search story, which local television

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Speaker 3: reporter Eric Mason never felt add it up.

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Speaker 8: They were people that were still in the Dome building

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Speaker 8: at the time. Mike's pager was going up, but he

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Speaker 8: was not returning calls. Searches had been made several times

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Speaker 8: all over the building, and for some strange reason, they

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Speaker 8: had missed or someone had not gone out to the

330
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Speaker 8: porch to see the broken glass, the blood, the body

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Speaker 8: laying there right there in front of the door where

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Speaker 8: he had punched through the glass and tried to open

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Speaker 8: the door with his own hand.

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Speaker 3: And Kevin takes issue with where Mike's car keys ended up.

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Speaker 2: They were in a drain at the end of the

336
00:19:37,680 --> 00:19:42,040
Speaker 2: north portico near his body, but they weren't on his person.

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Speaker 2: It was kind of odd.

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Speaker 3: But Alice Clausen offers another theory as to why Mike's

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Speaker 3: body may have been missed.

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Speaker 6: In those days, the porticos they didn't have lights on them,

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Speaker 6: and the shrubs were grown up really high, so we

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Speaker 6: were walking up the main front step you couldn't see

343
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Speaker 6: what was on in those porticos.

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Speaker 3: Some believe a janitor may have seen Michael Frankie's last

345
00:20:06,760 --> 00:20:10,040
Speaker 3: steps to that portico. Here's Phil Stanford's take.

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Speaker 5: One of the first witnesses to come forward in this

347
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Speaker 5: case was a janitor by the name a last name

348
00:20:18,040 --> 00:20:22,840
Speaker 5: of Hunsaker, who shortly after the murder talked to the

349
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Speaker 5: police and told him that about seven o'clock on the

350
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Speaker 5: night of the murder January seventeenth, he had just gotten

351
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Speaker 5: off work and had left the Dome building at a

352
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Speaker 5: side door on the north side of the building, and

353
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Speaker 5: as he came around the corner, he heard a sound

354
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Speaker 5: it would have been to his left, about forty feet down,

355
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Speaker 5: and it sounded like someone had been hit. And he

356
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Speaker 5: saw two men, One who was wearing a trench coat,

357
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Speaker 5: turned and started running west across the field there grounds,

358
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Speaker 5: towards the Old Salem Hospital, and the other turned and

359
00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:09,840
Speaker 5: walked leisurely back towards the dome building. And he didn't

360
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Speaker 5: see anything wrong. There were some real problems right off

361
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Speaker 5: the top, because, first of all, Hunsaker said that the

362
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Speaker 5: presumed of sailant, the one who turned and ran, was

363
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Speaker 5: the taller of the two. Well, Michael Frankie was sixty

364
00:21:24,440 --> 00:21:27,200
Speaker 5: three or sixty four and was wearing cowboy boots, so

365
00:21:27,280 --> 00:21:31,520
Speaker 5: this guy would have been NBA quality. But more than that,

366
00:21:31,359 --> 00:21:37,199
Speaker 5: the second man, he said, walked leisurely back to the

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Speaker 5: dome building. He said, if he'd thought that he was hurt,

368
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Speaker 5: he would have gone to help. There was no sign

369
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Speaker 5: that he was heard. He wasn't been over, he wasn't staggering,

370
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Speaker 5: he didn't seem to be in any sort of distress.

371
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Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't think that if I had just been

372
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Speaker 3: stabbed in the heart that I would be walking slowly anywhere.

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Speaker 5: No, he said, leisurely. That's what's in my notes. By

374
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Speaker 5: the way, By the time it got to trial, they

375
00:21:57,800 --> 00:22:00,360
Speaker 5: got Huntsaker to say that he was walking briskly back

376
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Speaker 5: to the Dome building. But the problem is that I

377
00:22:04,119 --> 00:22:07,040
Speaker 5: don't think that was Michael Frankie out there. I think

378
00:22:07,320 --> 00:22:09,960
Speaker 5: there were probably a couple of people involved in the murder,

379
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Speaker 5: which perhaps had just taken place. I don't know, but

380
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Speaker 5: it wasn't Michael Frankie.

381
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Speaker 3: Soon after the murder, talk of another mysterious figure emerged.

382
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Speaker 5: About a week after the murder, the police held a

383
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Speaker 5: press conference and announced they were interested in talking with

384
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Speaker 5: a man who had been seen in the Dome building

385
00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:44,600
Speaker 5: the night of the murder. There weren't too many specifics,

386
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Speaker 5: but they said he was a person of interest. He

387
00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:49,440
Speaker 5: wasn't a suspect. He was a person of interest and

388
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Speaker 5: they wanted to talk to him. He was a well dressed,

389
00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:56,800
Speaker 5: well groomed, hispanic looking man I think they said, had

390
00:22:56,840 --> 00:23:00,760
Speaker 5: an olive skin, and he was seen in the building

391
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Speaker 5: at six point thirty the night of the murder, which

392
00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:06,879
Speaker 5: was about an hour after the building had been locked

393
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Speaker 5: to the public. He was walking down the hallway, a

394
00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:13,280
Speaker 5: deserted hallway, and he turned a corner and there was

395
00:23:13,359 --> 00:23:16,399
Speaker 5: a woman who worked in personnel who was surprised because

396
00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:18,800
Speaker 5: she'd never seen him before, and working in personnel, she

397
00:23:18,840 --> 00:23:21,840
Speaker 5: would know who worked in the Dome building. He said,

398
00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:25,119
Speaker 5: where's pearl and probation. She pointed down the hall to

399
00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:28,679
Speaker 5: where it was, and he went in that direction. He

400
00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:31,000
Speaker 5: was wearing a dark suit, and the woman thought it

401
00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:34,840
Speaker 5: was a pinstripe suit. He quickly became known as the

402
00:23:34,920 --> 00:23:39,280
Speaker 5: man in the pinstripe suit. Obviously very important because who

403
00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:41,639
Speaker 5: would be in the Dome building on the night of

404
00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:44,760
Speaker 5: the murder after it was locked and no one knows

405
00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:47,560
Speaker 5: who he is. Surely he would have come forward if

406
00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:49,840
Speaker 5: he'd been there on legitimate business, just to clear up

407
00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:53,119
Speaker 5: the whole thing. No one ever came forward, no one

408
00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:54,240
Speaker 5: ever figured out who he.

409
00:23:54,320 --> 00:24:04,280
Speaker 3: Was, which brings us back to Kevin's theory that Mike

410
00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:06,800
Speaker 3: was never meant to die the way he died.

411
00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:10,920
Speaker 2: Who's the guy in the pinstriped suit and is stabbing

412
00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:11,920
Speaker 2: him the best thing?

413
00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:12,360
Speaker 4: Now?

414
00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:14,600
Speaker 2: I don't think that was what was planned. I think

415
00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:17,640
Speaker 2: was planned that he was supposed to be a suicide.

416
00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:22,479
Speaker 2: The pinstriped suit was supposed to disarm him, get him

417
00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:26,000
Speaker 2: in his office, and make it look like a suicide.

418
00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:29,160
Speaker 2: I don't know if they knew that he always used

419
00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:32,280
Speaker 2: the north portico doors, the main entry door, because the

420
00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:35,160
Speaker 2: pinstriped suit was seen that the main entry door going

421
00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:38,440
Speaker 2: back and forth and not here. So if he came

422
00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:42,240
Speaker 2: out here and the objective was to kill him, and

423
00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:44,720
Speaker 2: now he's getting loose and you have to stop him,

424
00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:45,680
Speaker 2: and the.

425
00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:54,560
Speaker 3: Ship is the fan, it's hard to visualize the logistics

426
00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:57,440
Speaker 3: of the murder scene that Mike could have been stabbed

427
00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:00,560
Speaker 3: in plain sight by his car, which was parked in

428
00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:04,480
Speaker 3: a spot reserved for the director, and died feet away

429
00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:07,159
Speaker 3: on the porch of the Department of Corrections and no

430
00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:13,399
Speaker 3: one found him for four hours. Left Pat and Kevin

431
00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:15,399
Speaker 3: agreed to take me there so I could see it

432
00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:15,879
Speaker 3: in person.

433
00:25:16,119 --> 00:25:20,000
Speaker 4: Keep going, look, here is this one, this one righting,

434
00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:23,040
Speaker 4: this one here, Parenna, that's where Mikes car was, right here.

435
00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:28,480
Speaker 3: For the Frankie Brothers. The Dome building has become a

436
00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:32,359
Speaker 3: memorial for Mike, and the Department of Corrections has dedicated

437
00:25:32,359 --> 00:25:35,760
Speaker 3: one there in his honor. It's a beautifully welded metal

438
00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:39,960
Speaker 3: podium decorated with intricate ivy like vines and topped with

439
00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:43,240
Speaker 3: a gilded cup for vote of candles, and a framed

440
00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:47,040
Speaker 3: plaque that reads in memory of Oregon Department of Corrections

441
00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:52,320
Speaker 3: Director Michael Frankie end of watch, January seventeenth, nineteen eighty nine.

442
00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:57,200
Speaker 4: Inmates designed and built this memorial. Take a look at that.

443
00:25:57,520 --> 00:26:00,200
Speaker 5: It's gorgeous.

444
00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:01,320
Speaker 3: Is dedicated.

445
00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:05,680
Speaker 4: Three years this summer they got tired of finding candles

446
00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:09,560
Speaker 4: up there every January eighteenth, come down and put candles

447
00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:13,800
Speaker 4: in the doorway down here, and statues and wreaths and.

448
00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:16,280
Speaker 2: The hurricane lamp we left one year with.

449
00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:18,760
Speaker 4: Because it went as lonzarde. We couldn't get keep the

450
00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:21,680
Speaker 4: candle lit, so we went and bought at butter oil

451
00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:22,359
Speaker 4: lamp cares.

452
00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:25,200
Speaker 3: You know, did you guys weigh in on the design

453
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:25,399
Speaker 3: at all?

454
00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:25,560
Speaker 5: Oh?

455
00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:29,240
Speaker 4: No, no, no, this was done off and by the inmates.

456
00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:33,919
Speaker 3: The memorial stands between the spot where Mike's car was

457
00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:37,000
Speaker 3: found with the door open and the portico where his

458
00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:38,199
Speaker 3: body was discovered.

459
00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:41,880
Speaker 4: So this is where his car was set, door standing open,

460
00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:46,680
Speaker 4: least class and came out over here, saw his sitting open,

461
00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:50,280
Speaker 4: hold it around, went back in, started making phone calls,

462
00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:53,919
Speaker 4: no signing to him anywhere he was obviously had already

463
00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:57,040
Speaker 4: made it up the steps and down to that side door.

464
00:26:57,640 --> 00:26:59,919
Speaker 3: Would the timing have made sense that he would have

465
00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:00,520
Speaker 3: already been.

466
00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:03,359
Speaker 4: Up there, yes, oh yeah, didn't take him a minute

467
00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:07,320
Speaker 4: or so to walk up there. They photographed his blood spatters,

468
00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:11,120
Speaker 4: and there's a doctor Limb, Herbert Lamb McDonald that wrote

469
00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:14,000
Speaker 4: the book on blood spatter evidence, and he also invented

470
00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:19,359
Speaker 4: the fingerprint rush system, and he could measure the speed

471
00:27:19,359 --> 00:27:21,640
Speaker 4: that Mike was walking by the how the blood hit

472
00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:25,359
Speaker 4: the ground. Pretty fascinating blood spatters, Yeah, it is.

473
00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:25,520
Speaker 6: So.

474
00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:30,560
Speaker 2: It was low velocity blood spatters that started right about

475
00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:34,840
Speaker 2: where the monument is there. His fellows were soaking up

476
00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:37,920
Speaker 2: most of their blood and I started but I.

477
00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:41,120
Speaker 3: Still don't understand how there could have been no blood

478
00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:43,120
Speaker 3: between that car.

479
00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:45,080
Speaker 4: And this You had a top coat on, a sport

480
00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:45,440
Speaker 4: coat on.

481
00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:49,920
Speaker 2: But I know exactly what she's saying, Pat, How could

482
00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:52,160
Speaker 2: there not be one drop of blood?

483
00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:52,560
Speaker 4: I don't know.

484
00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:57,320
Speaker 3: We'll revisit this later. But after Mike's murder, tips came

485
00:27:57,440 --> 00:28:00,920
Speaker 3: in about possible killers and at least two who involved

486
00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:04,560
Speaker 3: mention of the murderer discarding bloody clothing. So if we

487
00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:07,520
Speaker 3: were stabbed by the car and that person had blood

488
00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:11,040
Speaker 3: on their clothing. How did it not get anywhere else

489
00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:13,359
Speaker 3: until right here? Why didn't get on it quite one

490
00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:14,560
Speaker 3: hundred and fifty feet.

491
00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:18,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't agree with their story. I don't believe

492
00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:22,280
Speaker 2: he was stabbed at his car. There's too much blood

493
00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:24,840
Speaker 2: coming out of him through the types of wounds that

494
00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:28,159
Speaker 2: he had to not leave even one drop of blood.

495
00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:32,120
Speaker 2: This was cordoned off, and then everything became cordoned off

496
00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:35,879
Speaker 2: after a couple hours and a full grid search of

497
00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:40,120
Speaker 2: all the grass, everything, and no blood found over there.

498
00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:46,160
Speaker 2: The guard who found the body went up and immediately

499
00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:48,400
Speaker 2: came back after he got his light on him and

500
00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:51,680
Speaker 2: saw that it appeared to be a dead body, and

501
00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:54,480
Speaker 2: he called the com center, and the com center some

502
00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:57,920
Speaker 2: of the police parked out here and waited for the cops.

503
00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:01,400
Speaker 2: The crash unit came from the fire department, and there

504
00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:05,440
Speaker 2: was one fireman that went up on the right side

505
00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:09,040
Speaker 2: that a visual didn't touch anything, and then backed out

506
00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:13,320
Speaker 2: and said he's dead. There's no reason to transport. And

507
00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:15,320
Speaker 2: then they had to wait for the state Police crime

508
00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:18,440
Speaker 2: lab truck to get here, and then they made the

509
00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:23,240
Speaker 2: decision to delay processing the crime scene until morning. And

510
00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:26,720
Speaker 2: that was a real bad mistake. Poor, poor, poor mistake.

511
00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:31,640
Speaker 2: When that decision was made, then you eliminate being able

512
00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:33,200
Speaker 2: to establish the time and death.

513
00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:38,960
Speaker 3: And time of death wasn't the only important piece missing

514
00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:43,000
Speaker 3: from this puzzle. While Michael's wallet, money, and watch we're

515
00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:47,240
Speaker 3: still on his person, his briefcase and computer were nowhere

516
00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:47,520
Speaker 3: to be.

517
00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:51,560
Speaker 2: Found, and probably he's again. And it's not so much

518
00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:55,920
Speaker 2: the computer, because the computers back then had the memory

519
00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:59,240
Speaker 2: of a mouse, four legged mouse. What he would have

520
00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:02,880
Speaker 2: had and what he did had a bunch of the

521
00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:07,920
Speaker 2: old floppy discs, because that's the memory, that's your treasure.

522
00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:11,800
Speaker 2: So you would have had the floppy disc that's the money.

523
00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:15,080
Speaker 3: They would have held the meat of the corruption investigation.

524
00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:19,040
Speaker 3: And they weren't anywhere, not in the car, not in

525
00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:22,840
Speaker 3: the office. The floppy disks had vanished along with Michael's

526
00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:24,840
Speaker 3: main briefcase and his laptop.

527
00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:27,760
Speaker 2: He would have had his briefcase, he had it down

528
00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:30,080
Speaker 2: in Florida when he came to visit. In fact, it

529
00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:32,720
Speaker 2: also had room that if he wanted to fit the

530
00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:36,480
Speaker 2: computer and slots for the floppy disk.

531
00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:38,040
Speaker 3: And none of it was ever found, none of it.

532
00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:43,280
Speaker 3: Michael would have also had substantial amounts of office paperwork,

533
00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:45,400
Speaker 3: which seems to have disappeared too.

534
00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:50,320
Speaker 2: There were twenty three trash bags full of papers that

535
00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:53,280
Speaker 2: were carried out of somewhere, and I would suspect some

536
00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:56,320
Speaker 2: of it came out of his office and they were

537
00:30:56,360 --> 00:30:57,000
Speaker 2: all shredded.

538
00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:01,600
Speaker 3: And apparently they were shredded the day after Mike's body

539
00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:02,200
Speaker 3: was found.

540
00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:06,080
Speaker 2: An inmate that worked at the Dome building, you know,

541
00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:09,200
Speaker 2: doing cleaning or some administrative work and stuff like that,

542
00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:12,160
Speaker 2: and he go back to the prison at night and

543
00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:15,800
Speaker 2: I think he called somebody and it got reported. Why

544
00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:17,960
Speaker 2: did they go in there on a Saturday. You're not

545
00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:21,280
Speaker 2: getting paid to shred papers on a Saturday and shred

546
00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:23,720
Speaker 2: twenty three bags of data.

547
00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:29,680
Speaker 3: Former Representative Chuck Sides is still bothered by a conversation

548
00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:32,160
Speaker 3: he had with Mike weeks before the murder.

549
00:31:32,760 --> 00:31:35,760
Speaker 7: We went out to the Greek restaurant and Salem as

550
00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:37,840
Speaker 7: we were doing you know, what's going on, and he

551
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:40,880
Speaker 7: just says, well, as a knife was discovered in the prison,

552
00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:43,200
Speaker 7: and I remarked, well, at least it wasn't a gun.

553
00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:46,360
Speaker 7: He goes, you don't understand a knife's far dangerous in

554
00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:48,640
Speaker 7: a gun in prison. A gun makes a sound, a

555
00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:51,320
Speaker 7: knife doesn't and if you stick that knife in between

556
00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:53,840
Speaker 7: the third and fourth rib, you hit the heart in

557
00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:56,800
Speaker 7: the person's gun. That was three weeks before he was

558
00:31:56,800 --> 00:31:59,240
Speaker 7: taken out, exactly like that, and.

559
00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:01,560
Speaker 5: That was the thing that happened.

560
00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:06,360
Speaker 7: They State police interviewed me three times because of my

561
00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:08,440
Speaker 7: connection with Mike, trying to pick up but they were

562
00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:09,200
Speaker 7: totally lost.

563
00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:11,520
Speaker 3: The Frankie brothers agree.

564
00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:14,720
Speaker 2: They asked all the standard questions. You ever say anything,

565
00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:18,160
Speaker 2: Mike have any drug habits? Mike had any drinking habits,

566
00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:21,719
Speaker 2: They have any gambling habits? Do you know if he

567
00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:25,080
Speaker 2: was having affairs with anybody? Are you sure he wasn't

568
00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:28,760
Speaker 2: into gambling or any stuff like that? What kind of

569
00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:32,760
Speaker 2: drugs did recreational drugs did he use? I say he didn't.

570
00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:34,920
Speaker 2: They tell you this, They tell you that, and I

571
00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:37,960
Speaker 2: said no. What he told me was that he had

572
00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:40,960
Speaker 2: uncovered an organized criminal element and it kind of went

573
00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:41,720
Speaker 2: over his head.

574
00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:46,680
Speaker 3: Not only would state Police Officer Lauren Glover and then

575
00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:51,640
Speaker 3: District Attorney Dale Penn deny Mike Frankie was even investigating corruption,

576
00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:55,760
Speaker 3: They'd claim his family never mentioned it or their fear

577
00:32:55,880 --> 00:32:57,520
Speaker 3: he was targeted because of it.

578
00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:02,520
Speaker 4: Absolutely, Dale Penman Glover both denied that I had ever

579
00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:04,680
Speaker 4: brought it up. And this is months later, they were

580
00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:07,600
Speaker 4: still saying, oh, he never said anything about that, never

581
00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:08,600
Speaker 4: said anything about that.

582
00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:11,920
Speaker 3: The official story was that you never, you know, the

583
00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:14,760
Speaker 3: family binked. It didn't raise her concerns, You didn't raise

584
00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:19,880
Speaker 3: your concerns. And yet there was something in Lauren Glover's

585
00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:25,560
Speaker 3: notes that proved that within the first forty eight hours

586
00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:28,120
Speaker 3: you had both expressed concerns that he was targeted.

587
00:33:28,520 --> 00:33:32,440
Speaker 2: Absolutely, And it wasn't until we had the copies of

588
00:33:32,440 --> 00:33:35,280
Speaker 2: the officers notes that you could see that it was

589
00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:38,760
Speaker 2: written in there We're done at Santa Fe for Mike's funeral,

590
00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:40,840
Speaker 2: and I had the phone record from Santa Fe when

591
00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:44,200
Speaker 2: I called back up three days later to talk to

592
00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:47,880
Speaker 2: Renfro who was the head of the Criminal Division at

593
00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:50,240
Speaker 2: that point in time, who put Dale Penn on the

594
00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:53,560
Speaker 2: phone too, and I iterated, but I said, the Glover

595
00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:56,160
Speaker 2: to them to make sure that they had the story

596
00:33:56,360 --> 00:33:59,680
Speaker 2: about the organized criminal element, and that he had to

597
00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:03,760
Speaker 2: clean house and identify a Scott McAllister, who said assistant

598
00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:06,600
Speaker 2: Attorney General, and Mike was having problems.

599
00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:09,359
Speaker 4: Getting rid of him. All of that was put on

600
00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:15,880
Speaker 4: the table within the first four days.

601
00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:21,640
Speaker 3: When Kevin returned home to Florida, Mike's murder was officially

602
00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:25,200
Speaker 3: ruled a random car burglary gone bad and all his

603
00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:30,719
Speaker 3: allegations of corruption ignored. But when he finally got Mike's autopsy,

604
00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:32,840
Speaker 3: all hell broke loose.

605
00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:40,440
Speaker 2: That was four pages that was probably eighty percent blacked out, redacted.

606
00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:44,920
Speaker 2: The arrogance of those fucking bastards is what grips me

607
00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:49,319
Speaker 2: to this day. They thought that both Pat and I

608
00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:52,279
Speaker 2: would just kind of roll over and play dead and say, hey,

609
00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:53,640
Speaker 2: my brother got killed.

610
00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:59,960
Speaker 4: Shed Addams, fuck you.

611
00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:07,360
Speaker 3: Coming up on the next murder and Oregon, the Frankie

612
00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:10,600
Speaker 3: Brothers reach a breaking point with the official investigation.

613
00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:14,799
Speaker 4: It's an ancestuous bunch of criminals dives turns out there's

614
00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:18,560
Speaker 4: an ancestorous bunch of political official two leading them to.

615
00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:20,000
Speaker 3: A disturbed suspect.

616
00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:22,400
Speaker 2: I went to a psyche and she said that he

617
00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:26,319
Speaker 2: has somebody in custody right now named John Kate.

618
00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:31,840
Speaker 3: He said, c Kraus with a disturbing past and have

619
00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:34,520
Speaker 3: been beaten by his father when he was twelve years old.

620
00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:35,640
Speaker 5: Time to a chair and beat him.

621
00:35:35,560 --> 00:35:36,200
Speaker 2: Till he was blue.

622
00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:40,520
Speaker 3: And a murder confession that would end with a shocking twist.

623
00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:55,080
Speaker 1: Murder in Oregon is hosted by Lauren Bright Pacheco and

624
00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:59,200
Speaker 1: Phil Stanford. Executive producers are Noel Brown, Lauren BT Pacheco,

625
00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:03,320
Speaker 1: and Phil Stanford. Supervising producer and lead editor is Taylor Chacogne.

626
00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:07,400
Speaker 1: Sound designed by Tristan McNeil, Story editing by Matt Riddle,

627
00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:11,520
Speaker 1: written by Phil Stanford, Matt Riddle and Lauren Bright Pacheco.

628
00:36:12,200 --> 00:36:14,880
Speaker 1: Music written and performed by the Diamond Street Players and

629
00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:18,520
Speaker 1: mixed by Taylor Chakogine, with music supervision by Noel Brown.

630
00:36:19,520 --> 00:36:24,959
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