Speaker 1: First of all, you don't know me. We all about
Speaker 1: that high school drama, Girl Drama, Girl, all about them
Speaker 1: high school Queens Forever. We'll take you for a ride
Speaker 1: in our comic Girl Cheering for the drama Queens Girl Fashion.
Speaker 1: But you're tough, girl. You could sit with us Girl Drama,
Speaker 1: Queens Drama, Queen's Drama, Queen's Drama, Drama, Queen's Drama, Queens Okay,
Speaker 1: Season four, Episode nineteen, Ashes of Dreams, You Let Die.
Speaker 1: We're back to the depressing titles. Air dates May thirtieth,
Speaker 1: two thousand and seven. Nathan and Haley grow closer in
Speaker 1: spite of the recent scandal due to Haley's totally unreasonable reasonableness,
Speaker 1: and Brooke wonders if a spark might be rekindled with Chase.
Speaker 1: Peyton receives a tempting offer that would ultimately take her
Speaker 1: away from Tree Hill. Mouth reconnects with Gigi, while Lucas
Speaker 1: and makes a great stride toward something emotional for him
Speaker 1: at school regarding Jimmy, and while Lucas tells Karen that
Speaker 1: Dan is a murderer. It sets off an explosive series
Speaker 1: of events. Director David Jackson, Wow explosive is right, where
Speaker 1: do we even start that Dan and Karen kissing at
Speaker 1: the beginning, just it was like the episode came on,
Speaker 1: like we fade out of black and they're making out
Speaker 1: and I felt like I got punched in the teeth.
Speaker 1: But also they're making out in Lucas's room, Like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I am in a healthy marriage. I'm not hooking up
Speaker 1: with my husband in my child's room because that's a
Speaker 1: weird thing to do. It's weird, yeah, especially if you've
Speaker 1: had this history that is so sortid and all of
Speaker 1: a sudden it's like, well, Keith's gone so and not
Speaker 1: even gone for a major amount of time. All of
Speaker 1: it that was rough. I mean, Moira always shows up
Speaker 1: to work man like, she is so good and she's
Speaker 1: so convincing. I feel for Karen in this scenario. I
Speaker 1: hate Dan Scott right now. I mean remember your reaction
Speaker 1: when he hit Lucas. Oh yes, you guys were like
Speaker 1: h It was so shocking, and I guess it shouldn't
Speaker 1: be given what we know about Dan and how violent
Speaker 1: he can be and how violent we've seen him be
Speaker 1: with deb but the fact that he's trying to pull
Speaker 1: one over on Karen and then Lucas hits him and
Speaker 1: he elbows him in the face. It was so brutal,
Speaker 1: pure reflex too. Oh, like, my son hits me, I'll
Speaker 1: hit him back. Oh, but how much more effective would
Speaker 1: it have been in the scene if he hadn't hit
Speaker 1: Lucas and Karen watched him restrain himself right, Like, in
Speaker 1: my mind, I don't care if my son hits you
Speaker 1: with a fucking baseball bat. You lay a finger on that, boy,
Speaker 1: you are dead to me. And so like the idea
Speaker 1: that Karen watched that and was like boys, star right,
Speaker 1: you guys are being unruly. She didn't say, don't touch
Speaker 1: my son. I was taken aback by her reaction. And
Speaker 1: I think what I liked about it as as a
Speaker 1: viewer is that I didn't expect any of what happened
Speaker 1: in that scene. Yeah, and it's nice to have no
Speaker 1: idea what's going on or what's going to happen. But man, again,
Speaker 1: just knowing everything we know about Dan, it makes me
Speaker 1: feel so well. We got the good old fashioned dance
Speaker 1: got double down. You know, when when shit hits the
Speaker 1: fan and he has a choice to make to be
Speaker 1: a better human, he always chooses to go further in
Speaker 1: the other direction. Yes, And how uncomfortable did it make you?
Speaker 1: Because the three of us have talked so much about this,
Speaker 1: this roller coaster of narcissism and abuse that he drags
Speaker 1: people on, and he's been doing all this work to
Speaker 1: be like the best version of himself, or so he
Speaker 1: wants to tell everyone. And then when he knows that
Speaker 1: his son knows what he did, he waltzes into that
Speaker 1: police officer's office with that swagger. Oh you know, you
Speaker 1: can't blame the boy I'm dating his mom. Oh, it
Speaker 1: made me word vomit everywhere. Paul is such a good actor.
Speaker 1: It puts the viewer in Lucas's shoes. Because to your point,
Speaker 1: we didn't know anything. We could not have predicted anything
Speaker 1: that happened in that scene, because if you had asked
Speaker 1: me to put money on it, I would have been like, No,
Speaker 1: Karen's gonna totally go batshit if he hits him, you know,
Speaker 1: like when Lucas comes to her with this stuff, obviously
Speaker 1: she's gonna side with him. Yea. And the betrayal that
Speaker 1: we see on Chad's face in those performances is exactly
Speaker 1: how I felt. I was just like, what, like I'm mad.
Speaker 1: It's a great point I did. He's a a good crier, U, Chad.
Speaker 1: He did such a good job in that because and
Speaker 1: you said it too. He looks like a five year
Speaker 1: old right now, just devastated that his mom didn't take
Speaker 1: his side. That finally he told the truth, like he
Speaker 1: got to the bottom of it. He found out and
Speaker 1: he was willing to say the hard, impossible thing and
Speaker 1: then got shut down. You know what, I liked that
Speaker 1: they did for him. And we've you know, we've talked
Speaker 1: a bunch folks at home. I feel like now I
Speaker 1: have drinking games for our buzzwords and know the misdirect
Speaker 1: is a buzzword, right, Oh do we why we have those?
Speaker 1: I think I think we've got I think we do.
Speaker 1: I mean, we're doing it all play. But the the
Speaker 1: this is a really well done misdirect on the part
Speaker 1: of the writers and on the part of David Jackson,
Speaker 1: who directed this episode. Because when you watch Chad in
Speaker 1: that scene, Lucas and Karen are sitting there and he's
Speaker 1: to your point, Joy, he's confessing it, right, He's finally
Speaker 1: saying the hard thing. But they gave him this dialogue
Speaker 1: that was really like out of focus, and he starts
Speaker 1: talking about a dream he had and then the girl
Speaker 1: from the dream is real and he finally found her,
Speaker 1: but now she's gone. He does sound like he's losing
Speaker 1: his mind. Yeah. Yeah, And you get how his mother
Speaker 1: could think, oh my god, my son is exhibiting signs
Speaker 1: of PTSD. He needs to go to therapy. And you
Speaker 1: see these two people miss each other in this moment,
Speaker 1: and it's heartbreaking. And Chad did such a good job
Speaker 1: of leaning into that, trying to find the words and
Speaker 1: it looking like confusion. And I loved the way they
Speaker 1: both sold it because I believed them both. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: he feels like he has nowhere else to go. Where's
Speaker 1: he gonna go? I mean white Whitey's the guy to
Speaker 1: go to? Ye if I were likely, Dan Scott pulled
Speaker 1: some Whitey's my guy, Yeah for sure. Yeah, I would
Speaker 1: go to Whitey before I go to the police. Yeah. Okay.
Speaker 1: Can I just say I do a whole TV show
Speaker 1: about that very thing, about how people in positions of
Speaker 1: power in small towns can manipulate the judicial system, and
Speaker 1: so watching this play out on an episode that aired
Speaker 1: in what year twenty seven? Yeah, yeah, it's it happens
Speaker 1: all the time, and it's usually people who have their
Speaker 1: economics or their race, or their sexuality that are being
Speaker 1: judged by the community at large. And so to see
Speaker 1: Lucas Scott all American basketball player put in that position
Speaker 1: is hopefully more people can see themselves in that and
Speaker 1: be like, oh my god, how terrifying to go to
Speaker 1: the people that you think are going to help you
Speaker 1: and instead they align themselves with power. Yeah. Just oh yeah, dismissed,
Speaker 1: Just dismissed. They already had their answers. They don't need
Speaker 1: to reopen that can of worms. So interesting, Dan walking
Speaker 1: into that office is such an affront to what Lucas
Speaker 1: is trying to do. And then when the cops says,
Speaker 1: I was with your father outside the school. I had
Speaker 1: to tell him his brother was dead, and Dan has
Speaker 1: his whole sob story moment. You're just like, this is
Speaker 1: such a pinnacle of evils, but it's so human, Like
Speaker 1: we're looking at this on a level of murder. But yeah,
Speaker 1: but we do it on a day to day basis.
Speaker 1: We have these choices all the time when it's not
Speaker 1: the stakes aren't that high. You know. It's just so
Speaker 1: interesting to watch the different levels of human like a
Speaker 1: human nature instinct that starts small. It doesn't start at murder.
Speaker 1: Dan Scott didn't start his life acting that way with
Speaker 1: horrible things. He started with the small, everyday little decisions
Speaker 1: where it was like, do I save my ass or
Speaker 1: do I be honest and do the uncomfortable thing that's
Speaker 1: going to make me look bad and people will think
Speaker 1: badly of me and I just can't risk it. There's
Speaker 1: too much at stake. I'm just going to do the
Speaker 1: one thing this one time that'll save my ass. And
Speaker 1: then you do it again and again and again, and
Speaker 1: eventually you're there. And by the way, before you even
Speaker 1: get to the point where am I going to do
Speaker 1: the thing that makes people look at me like I'm bad?
Speaker 1: Am I going to admit where I'm bad? Am I
Speaker 1: going to admit where I'm flawed? Am I going to
Speaker 1: consistently align myself to power. It's like our whole country
Speaker 1: is having a conversation about white supremacy and how it
Speaker 1: makes everybody sick, including people it supposedly benefits. And it's
Speaker 1: the same, Oh I'm just going to turn my eyes.
Speaker 1: Oh I'm just going to drive away. Well, it doesn't
Speaker 1: really affect my family. But the truth is it affects everybody,
Speaker 1: and it's really interesting. While that's not the specific conversation
Speaker 1: we're having, we are talking to your point, Hillary about
Speaker 1: what you do on your show small town super rich
Speaker 1: white guy comes from the sports world. Ever gonna blame
Speaker 1: this guy and it's really interesting and he says, this
Speaker 1: pains me, This pains me. I'm struggling here you how
Speaker 1: could you do this to me? Yeah? And so, regardless
Speaker 1: of what dynamic we're analyzing it in the choice to
Speaker 1: always lean, to aligning yourself with power, to aligning yourself
Speaker 1: to the person who you think can keep you safe,
Speaker 1: I think that's such a just a universal truism of
Speaker 1: the human experience. You said it, Joy, he's human. We're
Speaker 1: all human. Yeah. And to learn to undo that is,
Speaker 1: you know, to swim upstream and oof. It's weird from
Speaker 1: this vantage point in all of our lives, when we're
Speaker 1: advocating in the world and doing all the things the
Speaker 1: three of us were doing to watch it. I wonder
Speaker 1: if that's part of the reason it makes our skin
Speaker 1: crawl someone it's too close to Yeah. I love a
Speaker 1: cautionary tale because we're all just to step away, you know,
Speaker 1: or two or three steps away. We're all vulnerable to
Speaker 1: it at any given moment. That's why you have to
Speaker 1: be vigilant with yourself. But so yeah, as much as
Speaker 1: I hate Dan Scott, I'm also like, this is so
Speaker 1: fascinating to watch this kind of I've said it before,
Speaker 1: it's fascinating to watch this character unfold. But now we've
Speaker 1: got Lucas in this boat where he's got to make
Speaker 1: a decision about what to do. What I have a question.
Speaker 1: Is this the same police officer that just like congratulated
Speaker 1: Lucas for solving like the stalker Derek shit. Like, remember
Speaker 1: there was a Remember there was a cop that was like,
Speaker 1: way to go, kid, you were right. That guy is
Speaker 1: a creeper from the internet. I wonder I didn't have
Speaker 1: a moment of familiarity watching him. But it's also been
Speaker 1: what three or four weeks since we've done an episode
Speaker 1: because people have been shooting movies. We got tired of
Speaker 1: the hospitals and we're like, we're going to hang out
Speaker 1: at the precinct. Good, we have more hospitals coming up,
Speaker 1: So I'm pretty sure. Yeah, you're right. They were like
Speaker 1: get us out of there for a little while Relly, Okay,
Speaker 1: we're really in the darkness. Let's pull up a couple
Speaker 1: of things that are beautiful. Yeah, can hot we can
Speaker 1: hot seat him. I loved everything about mouth. I loved
Speaker 1: what he did with Jimmy. I loved everything joy about
Speaker 1: your storyline is Haley and trying to sort of mitigate
Speaker 1: your marriage and also your individual identity in the Valdetorian speech.
Speaker 1: I loved James's performance. I loved Barry coming in to
Speaker 1: yell at him and rattle him and tell him to
Speaker 1: do the work. Where do we want to go? Yeah,
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, let's live in Nathan haley Land because
Speaker 1: it's the nicest. Okay, it's the happiest, happiest place. Stink
Speaker 1: from zero to sixty. I loved it. I loved Nathan's hair.
Speaker 1: I love oh yeah, pause, pause for a pause. This
Speaker 1: is like I mean, I think I just had it before.
Speaker 1: How much I love the Little Elvis movie. That Austin
Speaker 1: Butler movie. My kid watched it twenty seven times. James
Speaker 1: is giving very strong, like Elvis energy here, very old
Speaker 1: movie star with bad hair. Oh yeah. So wild to
Speaker 1: have had him on the show and to have him say,
Speaker 1: oh yeah, I started growing my hair out for the
Speaker 1: season five storyline. I was like, what we all just
Speaker 1: thought you were like growing up and getting handsome. What
Speaker 1: are you talking about? Whatever? He planned that out. It
Speaker 1: was great. It's interesting. It's definitely a very real thing
Speaker 1: to think about the person that you, whether it's your
Speaker 1: child or your parent, or your spouse or your sibling,
Speaker 1: how their actions affect the people closest to them. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, that's a really that's tough, and I kind
Speaker 1: of could see it from both perspectives. I mean, really,
Speaker 1: I think Hayley still should have been allowed to give
Speaker 1: her speech, of course, of course, but I could see
Speaker 1: why as an institution, you have all these other people
Speaker 1: to pander two and the people who were donating money,
Speaker 1: and it's just it's that's like a tough situation for
Speaker 1: the principle to be in. But I'm glad that Nathan
Speaker 1: did what he did and that it was a good
Speaker 1: chat with Principal Turner. I thought he was very convincing.
Speaker 1: He got a lot to play this episode. You know,
Speaker 1: like we've had Principal Turner for years, but he really
Speaker 1: had a lot of work this episode to play the
Speaker 1: back and forth and the look on his face when
Speaker 1: Nathan was like, do you have a wife and would
Speaker 1: you want her punished for something that you did? And
Speaker 1: that's what it boils down to. It's like, yeah, God,
Speaker 1: actually that is the last person I would want punished,
Speaker 1: literally punish anybody else but her. She's gold. Yeah. What
Speaker 1: a heavy thing for a teenage girl to have to
Speaker 1: deal with. But I think it's her. I love that
Speaker 1: she's dealing with it so nicely while she's pregnant. I
Speaker 1: was like, this, she's being so reasonable. This is so bizarre.
Speaker 1: But actually, I guess when you're you've got so many
Speaker 1: other crazy things happening in your life at some point
Speaker 1: you just kind of throw your hands up and you're like,
Speaker 1: you know whatever, I'm just going to take everything as
Speaker 1: it comes. Well in Haley's on the precipice of this
Speaker 1: enormous life shift, and you have that bit of dialogue
Speaker 1: about it saying it's it's just a speech, It's just
Speaker 1: a moment high schools about to be over. Yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: paraphrasing a little bit, you know, And I think what's
Speaker 1: interesting about it and what I like and in the
Speaker 1: ways that we talk about Look, if we talk as
Speaker 1: we all have about sexism in the workplace, harassment, the
Speaker 1: things women face. It can't just be us who talk
Speaker 1: about it. We need men to talk to men about it. Yes,
Speaker 1: and I really was impressed that in an episode of
Speaker 1: television that aired in two thousand and seven, we were
Speaker 1: modeling the thing that happens all the time. Whereas women
Speaker 1: are blamed for the bad behavior of their spouse, this
Speaker 1: doesn't happen to men. If a woman goes off and
Speaker 1: does something, people are like, well, that guy's wife. But
Speaker 1: if a guy does something, they're like, want, what was
Speaker 1: his wife doing? You know, we've seen this play out
Speaker 1: over and over again on large and small, national, global scales.
Speaker 1: That our little teen TV show in two thousand and
Speaker 1: seven had a man. Haley didn't have to go do it.
Speaker 1: The man went in and said, you don't punish my
Speaker 1: wife for what I did. She has nothing to do
Speaker 1: with this. What a thing to model, By the way,
Speaker 1: not just for teenage boys, but for grown ass men.
Speaker 1: I love yeah, Yeah, I like that he did the
Speaker 1: clean up, But I didn't love that Haley was like
Speaker 1: it's okay, Like yeah, I didn't feel like it was
Speaker 1: okay for Haley. I wanted her to be allowed to
Speaker 1: model being upset. Yeah, I'd be like, God, damn it.
Speaker 1: I worked, you know, twelve years for this, twelve my
Speaker 1: whole life, I've worked for this, and I'm still that
Speaker 1: victorian having gone on tour and being pregnant. I'm doing
Speaker 1: it with like crazy obstacles. Yeah, there just wasn't room
Speaker 1: for it in the I think realistically there wasn't room
Speaker 1: for it in the episode. There were just too many
Speaker 1: other ups and downs. And we've already seen Haley be
Speaker 1: you know, with the porn tape and all or the
Speaker 1: sex tape or whatever that. You know, she was like
Speaker 1: reasonable about I mean, you're not allowed to be emotional, right,
Speaker 1: So at this point it's like, Okay, I guess I
Speaker 1: just had to lean into I'm about to have a baby.
Speaker 1: I can't let this kind of stuff freak me out.
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna have to go with it. So right,
Speaker 1: But I agree, it would have been nice to see that,
Speaker 1: like a moment with your girlfriends. Yeah this motherfucker. Yeah
Speaker 1: not just in the hallway Turner saying I've worked really
Speaker 1: hard for this, Like come on, but with us. But
Speaker 1: I think you're right. Joy We're getting into those end
Speaker 1: of the season episodes where they're cramming so much in Yeah,
Speaker 1: like you said it, Hill, if you had an issue,
Speaker 1: you'd go to Whitey, But Lucas can't go to Whitey
Speaker 1: because Nathan and Whitey have a whole storyline. And Haley
Speaker 1: and Whitey had a great, great scene. Yes, but like
Speaker 1: that's the Nelly and Whitey and then you and I
Speaker 1: are having the boy drama with Lucas and Chase. So
Speaker 1: so the writers didn't give room for Haley to come
Speaker 1: to Peyton and Brooke with valedictorian stuff. It's like they
Speaker 1: were trying to just cover all the bases. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: I'm sure there were scenes that got cut because they're
Speaker 1: always work. Well. It was a big yearbook episode, is
Speaker 1: big for Brooke and Chase. My god, yearbooks. That was
Speaker 1: the most high school thing that happened in this episode
Speaker 1: for sure. Yeah. Sure, do you guys still have your yearbooks?
Speaker 1: I do, Actually, I still have my yearbooks. I was
Speaker 1: the editor of my yearbook. Of book this sensitive Sally's
Speaker 1: nostalgia in the year two thousand graduating high school ran
Speaker 1: so deep, you guys. I cried in the yearbook office
Speaker 1: multiple times because I was just so overwhelmed with what
Speaker 1: it meant for our lives. Yeah, guys, my student government
Speaker 1: sponsor came and spent the weekend with me. Missus Johnson
Speaker 1: was here and when I tell you that, she and
Speaker 1: I polished off a bottle of bourbon going through the
Speaker 1: yearbooks and her telling me all that shit I didn't know.
Speaker 1: I was like, who is kissing who? And what? We
Speaker 1: never think about that, like teachers that might be teachers.
Speaker 1: I love, love love the fact that, like our teachers
Speaker 1: aren't that much older than us, Like we're the age
Speaker 1: that she was when she was teaching me, which blows
Speaker 1: my mind. And hearing all that stuff from her perspective,
Speaker 1: She's like, oh, yeah, we definitely knew whenever you were
Speaker 1: making out with your boyfriend in the hallway, and we
Speaker 1: knew exactly what you were doing at any given time. Um,
Speaker 1: it's so fun to look at in hindsight. And a
Speaker 1: yearbook is something that really gets a bad rap is
Speaker 1: being kind of cheeseball and it's like, oh, you're such
Speaker 1: a nerd for caring about school. Um. I love those things.
Speaker 1: I've lost them so many classmates, and it's so nice,
Speaker 1: like in this episode to go back and like they're
Speaker 1: captured forever. You know, they'll live forever in this like
Speaker 1: little dumb bubble we have of memory. So I'm I'm
Speaker 1: pro Yearbook. I love the Yearbook me too. I think
Speaker 1: there's something so special that was the stuff that got
Speaker 1: me in this episode. You know, when we were watching it,
Speaker 1: the three of us were like, what does this episode
Speaker 1: want to be? But the mouth standing up for Jimmy
Speaker 1: and being sweet to Gigi and like them connecting over
Speaker 1: how as kids they could memorialize someone in process and
Speaker 1: you know, him getting on the table and giving that
Speaker 1: speech because he wanted to give it to his mom, Like, oh,
Speaker 1: that guy means those are emotional, Yeah, they're important moments.
Speaker 1: What a gift. You know what I was thinking about
Speaker 1: when I was watching that was, you know, from an
Speaker 1: outside perspective today and maybe even then. I mean, I
Speaker 1: think it would be considered deeply offensive to any victims
Speaker 1: of Jimmy's like that went through the trauma of that experience,
Speaker 1: Like for anyone to speak of him with kindness. That's
Speaker 1: that's where we're living right now, and I just think, like,
Speaker 1: is it is it fair? And clearly I don't think
Speaker 1: it is because and I think this episode showcases it
Speaker 1: beautifully to just wipe somebody out because of one terrible choice.
Speaker 1: I mean, there was a book written about the Columbine
Speaker 1: Boys that talked about there were two very different kids,
Speaker 1: and one of them was more troubled than the other
Speaker 1: and led the other down a really dark path. And
Speaker 1: their mothers have been very communicative with people because I
Speaker 1: think they feel beholden to the community to explain why
Speaker 1: they happened the way they happened, And maybe because it
Speaker 1: was the first like really big one, really bad one
Speaker 1: that we all talked about it and could explore the
Speaker 1: humanity of those kids in a way that now it's
Speaker 1: just a flood. It's like a flood. Now, Like how
Speaker 1: do you wrap your head around any of that? Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: and the domestic violence portion is a huge point. Go ahead,
Speaker 1: But I also think that's something that's really important to remember.
Speaker 1: Like when you talk about how essentially we the audience
Speaker 1: or Lucas's ally in this we've been Jimmy's ally in
Speaker 1: this whole story. Right, we as an audience know who
Speaker 1: Jimmy is. We know that he got in a really
Speaker 1: bad way that in this storyline he fell into a depression.
Speaker 1: You know, when we've talked about, you know, just to
Speaker 1: be clear in case you're gonna missed the episode, We've
Speaker 1: talked about the fact that that it's not what mass
Speaker 1: shootings are. They're different. They're cultivated, you know, anger, violence, supremacy,
Speaker 1: domestic violence, all of that that happens to boys. They're
Speaker 1: being groomed online for this. Well, that was the thing
Speaker 1: we complained about in the school shooting episode. Yes, so
Speaker 1: I feel like it's important just to repeat again in
Speaker 1: case anybody missed that recap. But I think that's the
Speaker 1: difference to your point, Joy is like I would imagine
Speaker 1: for a parent of a kid who commits on atrocity
Speaker 1: like that today, they think about they're eight year old
Speaker 1: and they're ten year old, and they don't understand how
Speaker 1: that kid became the sixteen year old who's a mass murderer. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think there's also for us as an audience here
Speaker 1: because we knew Jimmy, and we've known the whole time
Speaker 1: that Jimmy didn't do it. He didn't kill anybody. He
Speaker 1: did a terrible thing and he made a terrible mistake.
Speaker 1: But Jimmy's not a kid who decided he was an
Speaker 1: in cell and he was being wronged by society, who
Speaker 1: walked into a school with a weapon of war and
Speaker 1: murdered twenty two people, Like the chasm is so different.
Speaker 1: And that's why I wonder because I was wondering the
Speaker 1: same thing like watching it. I wonder if because we
Speaker 1: have the we have the answers as the viewers of
Speaker 1: this show where we can say, it's so meaningful that
Speaker 1: we see Mouth fight for the best memories of his
Speaker 1: best friend instead of letting him, to your point, be
Speaker 1: sort of wiped out in the worst thing he ever did. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but I wonder how much grace we're willing to feel
Speaker 1: for that because we know that he didn't do Columbine
Speaker 1: or Parkland or whatever, you know what I mean? Like,
Speaker 1: I really question that, right, But where's the line? And
Speaker 1: I don't know the answer to this, but that begs
Speaker 1: the question, where's the line? Peyton got shot? If she
Speaker 1: had died, would then it be okay? We would feel differently,
Speaker 1: would we? Or would it would we still know Jimmy
Speaker 1: and know that he, you know, went through this bull
Speaker 1: lying experience and felt devastated and just got mentally ill
Speaker 1: and troubled, and you know, like, where where is the
Speaker 1: line for that? And again I'm not trying to ask
Speaker 1: for an answer. If you have one, great, I don't
Speaker 1: have one. I just think it's interesting to think about
Speaker 1: those things and to be intentional about the thought process
Speaker 1: of those things. Well, and it's a good question for
Speaker 1: us to be asking, like to interrogate ourselves. Yeah. And
Speaker 1: when it's something our show does really well is empathy
Speaker 1: and forgiveness, Like that's that That to me is a
Speaker 1: really radical form of forgiveness. The what mouth did, it's
Speaker 1: outrageous and when you put it in a context. I
Speaker 1: read this article. It was a father who did this
Speaker 1: big interview about how his son moved back in with
Speaker 1: him and his wife and his son got sucked into
Speaker 1: that Q and on world. Yeah, and he was like,
Speaker 1: my kid, I don't know who he is anymore. He's
Speaker 1: violent and he's angry, and he's scary and he's combative.
Speaker 1: But I know my kid is in there. I know
Speaker 1: my kid is in this person. And he can tell
Speaker 1: you because it happened to his son in his early twenties.
Speaker 1: He can see where his son changed. And so to
Speaker 1: your point, I wonder how we can figure out, like,
Speaker 1: is it possible to put a line in the timeline
Speaker 1: of a human and mourn who they were before they
Speaker 1: were indoctrinated or radicalized or whatever. And I imagine how
Speaker 1: could there not be for the people in their lives.
Speaker 1: And to your point, again, Peyton was shot. Jimmy isn't faultless,
Speaker 1: but he didn't murder Keith. And I think when you're
Speaker 1: the viewer and you know people, you're willing to breathe
Speaker 1: some room into their life in a way that is
Speaker 1: harder now when everything's like two hundred characters on the
Speaker 1: internet and you see a headline and you know, or
Speaker 1: when you don't know someone, you didn't grow up with them,
Speaker 1: you don't have them maras with them. I also think
Speaker 1: that redemption, healing, healing from trauma, that's a community project.
Speaker 1: I think so many people struggle and fall apart when
Speaker 1: they're isolated, when they're alone. We evolved in groups, we
Speaker 1: evolved in villages like we need each other. And the
Speaker 1: isolation part of how people become radicalized, part of how
Speaker 1: these school shooters become who they are is they're isolated
Speaker 1: and they're vulnerable. Yeah, that's any cult anywhere exactly. And
Speaker 1: while I don't have I don't know anyone who has
Speaker 1: been in my life and then been the cause of
Speaker 1: someone's death. Some of the most powerful and profound experiences
Speaker 1: I have had in my life are sitting in maximum
Speaker 1: security prisons with anti recidivism coalition and having some of
Speaker 1: the most empathetic, emotionally intelligent, vulnerable, and like charged exchanges
Speaker 1: and experiences with men who have killed people and who
Speaker 1: in prison have had finally access to trauma therapy, to
Speaker 1: group therapy, to group hearing projects, and who have understanding
Speaker 1: of what they went through as kids and how they
Speaker 1: became the people that they were, and how they were
Speaker 1: in the wrong place at the wrong time with the
Speaker 1: wrong information, and who have such immense passion for healing
Speaker 1: work for other people because they know what it's meant
Speaker 1: for them, and they have friends who have not had
Speaker 1: access to it, and it's about the access and the
Speaker 1: privilege to the access. And I the first time I
Speaker 1: was in one of those environments was when I was
Speaker 1: deeply in process of my own post traumatic stress. I
Speaker 1: really struggled to be in rooms filled with men like that,
Speaker 1: and I was like, Oh, I've just had one of
Speaker 1: the most profoundly healing experiences for myself as a woman
Speaker 1: in this group and this man James, who I will
Speaker 1: never forget, who was you know, six five and probably
Speaker 1: weighed three hundred and fifty maybe four hundred pounds when
Speaker 1: I thanked him in this group conversation for offering that
Speaker 1: to me. Started to weep and said, my whole life,
Speaker 1: I've only been told that because of my size and
Speaker 1: because of the way I look, I was a weapon
Speaker 1: and that I could make this tiny little woman who
Speaker 1: I didn't know an hour ago feel Safehi is my life.
Speaker 1: And like we just sat and cried together and held
Speaker 1: each other, and I was like, I wouldn't have known
Speaker 1: this about any of you had I not been here
Speaker 1: to witness you. But I don't think anybody can heal
Speaker 1: or anybody can be redeemed if they don't have access
Speaker 1: to a community that gives you another option. And that's
Speaker 1: where I think we struggle as a society. How do
Speaker 1: we create new systems, How do we show up for
Speaker 1: people better? It's part of you know, to take it
Speaker 1: all the way back. It's part of what you're doing
Speaker 1: with your show Hill. It's like if you create another doorway,
Speaker 1: and imagine what happens when there's a door number four
Speaker 1: to walk through and all you've ever had your whole
Speaker 1: life for the first three I mean what you're describing
Speaker 1: is exactly what this episode does. Everybody else is healing
Speaker 1: and community and is teaming up in different ways. You
Speaker 1: finally see Brooke and Peyton together again, You see Nathan
Speaker 1: and Haley together again, You see Mouth and Gigi together again.
Speaker 1: And Lucas is on his own, and he is the
Speaker 1: one who ends the episode with a fucking gun, Like
Speaker 1: that's insane. You're so smart, Hillary, way to bring it
Speaker 1: back around. That's right, that's exactly right, our executive producer, Gal.
Speaker 1: He's by himself, and that makes you act a rational
Speaker 1: don't do that? Yeah. Yeah, if he had talked to
Speaker 1: the girls, any of the girls, Haley, Brook, Peyton, his brother,
Speaker 1: if he talked to anybody, Yeah, he would not have
Speaker 1: ended up with that gun in his hand. Yes. And
Speaker 1: you know what, you're reminding me of something, Joy, When
Speaker 1: you guys did that scene together, when nobody knows where
Speaker 1: Lucas is and then suddenly cool with you in the
Speaker 1: hall and you give him the yearbook and he's acting
Speaker 1: like everything's okay, it made me so uncomfortable. I felt
Speaker 1: the same way. So why is he being so normal.
Speaker 1: It's abnormal. Yeah, he's acting like there's nothing wrong, everything's
Speaker 1: totally fine. It was creepy. Yeah, but that's why, because
Speaker 1: he because that's what happens when you isolate, you you
Speaker 1: mask and you pretend like everything's normal, everything's fine. Mm, well,
Speaker 1: this is dredging up some major things for us. Yeah, guys, guys,
Speaker 1: dark darkness, Oh you know it's not dark. Pay Bermuda shorts,
Speaker 1: dumb little Bermuda shorts. Wait, no, you were wearing jets too.
Speaker 1: We escaped the curse of the Bermuda short? Did it was?
Speaker 1: And by the way, you guys, I talked about this
Speaker 1: with the girls when we were watching the Amazone. Not
Speaker 1: only am I wearing tight little black Bermuda shorts with heels,
Speaker 1: but that blouse that they gave me was obviously too
Speaker 1: small for me. Like it. They covered my chest and
Speaker 1: they couldn't get the buttons closed on the sleeves on
Speaker 1: my arms, so they just cut them off, so the
Speaker 1: little arm sleeves are just flapping around. It was a
Speaker 1: cute little Victorian top. The important part was the part
Speaker 1: we were all looking at. The bosom was on points.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, is out of control and you talked
Speaker 1: about this recently, like we gotten to this place where
Speaker 1: they were giving everyone a color, like couples of color.
Speaker 1: So for whatever reason, I had to wear like plum
Speaker 1: you would chase were burgundy. They were like, we know
Speaker 1: you don't have we don't have the shirt in your size,
Speaker 1: but you're gonna wear it, and we'll just cut the
Speaker 1: sleeves open to make space for your arms. Pants so
Speaker 1: badly want to be cigarette pants, but they just can't.
Speaker 1: Please don't go all the way down. It's like they're
Speaker 1: almost Audrey Hepburn, but they're the Bahamas in the eighties.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, where did we even find those things?
Speaker 1: Back then? Was it everything? Banana Republic? It was trendy.
Speaker 1: That's why it was very trendy. It was the limited too,
Speaker 1: which if you're reading the cut is back. Oh. The
Speaker 1: journalists that are our age are like, please, no, don't
Speaker 1: bring the bedazzled like rhinestone limited two ties back. Don't
Speaker 1: do it. And the kids are doing it. They're doing it.
Speaker 1: Are you kidding me? I am not. I'll send you
Speaker 1: an article. I will say my outfit aside, I had
Speaker 1: such a you know, sometimes we'll talk about how you
Speaker 1: have a visceral sense memory. You watch a scene, you go,
Speaker 1: oh my god, I remember this they I remember feeling
Speaker 1: so just like, oh about the way they put work
Speaker 1: through the ringer in the Brook Nathan Haley storyline with
Speaker 1: Peyton and the tape and the thing, and I just
Speaker 1: didn't like it. It made me feel uncomfortable. I like this,
Speaker 1: she won't even she calls it, and the thing, she
Speaker 1: won't even say sex tape. She's just like, and you
Speaker 1: know that that little tiny thing that happened, the thing
Speaker 1: would sooner die. I don't want to talk about it,
Speaker 1: you know, Like I don't know. Yes, we do our
Speaker 1: jobs as actors and we play what's on the page,
Speaker 1: but that doesn't mean we're comfortable with it. No. It
Speaker 1: was so cringing, it was so iggy, and I don't know,
Speaker 1: there was just something watching these scenes talking about the
Speaker 1: yearbook and what was going to go in the yearbook
Speaker 1: and who has feelings for who? And you know, bringing
Speaker 1: you the two index cards but like my options for
Speaker 1: the for the yearbook inscriptions, it just made me feel
Speaker 1: this like sweet, like just warm chested feeling of nostalgia
Speaker 1: of like, oh, it's so sweet. It's sweet to just
Speaker 1: flirt and wonder and kind of go there and say
Speaker 1: I really have feelings for you, but then sort of
Speaker 1: pull back and see if they respond. I just loved it.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, they're writing, like pouring your heart out
Speaker 1: in his yearbook and then having him only write you
Speaker 1: it said, that's such a boy in high school thing
Speaker 1: to do. Oh how many times did I have moments
Speaker 1: like that? Yeah, call me, please call me over the summer,
Speaker 1: Please please call me, call me. Here's my number. I
Speaker 1: just remember filming those scenes and like they'd end and
Speaker 1: I could feel that, like my face was flush, and
Speaker 1: I was just like, oh, this is real, Like this
Speaker 1: is real girl giddiness and it felt really nice, you know.
Speaker 1: Again going through the you know, the teen drama, ringer
Speaker 1: to like give Brook just a little moment of like
Speaker 1: sweet giddy fun because the way the chase looks at
Speaker 1: Brooke is it's it's innocent. He's not lecherous at all.
Speaker 1: He's like he's got a baby face, you know, like
Speaker 1: he is not trying to get in her pants. He
Speaker 1: is trying to make out. He wants to connect. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he really wants to make sure he's not going to
Speaker 1: get hurt again. Do we have a drinking tally on
Speaker 1: like how many times Chase says I got her really bad.
Speaker 1: I loved your commentary when he when he answered your
Speaker 1: Brooks question about why did you leave? Why did you join?
Speaker 1: What did it because it leave or join? When Brooks
Speaker 1: are like, like, why Chase leave Clean Teens? And He's like,
Speaker 1: I just I didn't want girls to keep chasing me.
Speaker 1: They just all these girls have to beat him off
Speaker 1: with a stick. And if I if I said it
Speaker 1: was a virgin, they just leave me alone. I think
Speaker 1: I wasn't cool and they wouldn't try to use me
Speaker 1: for my body. His excuse for joining Clean Teens was
Speaker 1: that the girl wouldn't leave him alone. Yeah, he was
Speaker 1: just too hot. I was too hot. I gotta go
Speaker 1: join this weirdo club, the chicks. There's a flaw, come on,
Speaker 1: But I love this. I do. This is the first
Speaker 1: time I have to say that I've actually noticed and
Speaker 1: like liked Chase for no other reason, Like not because
Speaker 1: I didn't. I think I just was focused on other storylines.
Speaker 1: And I know COLLETTI was with us for a while
Speaker 1: and I guess I just kind of brushed over it.
Speaker 1: But in this episode I was like, oh, you know what,
Speaker 1: he is really sweet. He's not like a Felix or
Speaker 1: like any of these even Lucas who was always so
Speaker 1: confused and conflicted. He's just so sweet and sincere. And
Speaker 1: I love that for Brooke. Wait wait, wait, because when
Speaker 1: you were like I've always not noticed him, I'm like
Speaker 1: dull because Haley has Nathan. Do you feel like do
Speaker 1: we think I've literally never thought this until this mot
Speaker 1: Forgive me. I'm trying to find the words. Are you
Speaker 1: responding our girls responding in this episode to Chase beginning
Speaker 1: to like give a little bit of the Nathan vibe,
Speaker 1: Like just a good guy who wants to learn for
Speaker 1: the right girl. Is that what that is? It's gotta
Speaker 1: be because that's what every girl says. I mean most
Speaker 1: girls in high school anyway. That's what they want, all right.
Speaker 1: If you're not looking for a guy with a motorcycle,
Speaker 1: well cut me out of that. I'm in a garage
Speaker 1: right now with like six motorcycles part next to me.
Speaker 1: What we did say while we were watching the episode
Speaker 1: is like the boys are working overtime in this episode.
Speaker 1: They're all as senior year is ending, saying the right thing,
Speaker 1: and so if that's just so kids at home learn
Speaker 1: how to articulate like, yes, I'm happy for you. You
Speaker 1: deserve this nice thing. Yeah, the way Lucas does that
Speaker 1: for you. I loved that you and you said it.
Speaker 1: He says every right thing, that's it. It's not that hard.
Speaker 1: Don't be selfish, don't freak out guys. As a viewer,
Speaker 1: like not as Hillary Burton who participated in this show,
Speaker 1: but as a viewer who has not watched this since
Speaker 1: probably it originally aired, if I even watched it, then
Speaker 1: that was the most attractive Lucas has ever been to
Speaker 1: me because he sounded like my husband, yeah, and like that.
Speaker 1: It was what he said was so like you're gonna
Speaker 1: go kick ass and I'm not going anywhere, so go
Speaker 1: like make the world yours. It was so firm, there
Speaker 1: was nothing like passive aggressive about it. I'd loved. I
Speaker 1: loved Chad's delivery. I loved it was just clean in
Speaker 1: a way that I think teenagers can be really confusing
Speaker 1: to one another, Like you can say like, yeah, you
Speaker 1: should go do that thing, and it's like but that,
Speaker 1: but you didn't mean that, did you. Yeah? I absolutely
Speaker 1: believed Lucas. Yeah, yeah, and I loved it, even though
Speaker 1: he was going through all of that. Maybe it was
Speaker 1: because he was dealing with something so huge. I'm glad
Speaker 1: he didn't compound the issue and suddenly make it more
Speaker 1: about him. He really was just solely focused on his
Speaker 1: mom and this catastrophic new information. Um So I liked that.
Speaker 1: I like that he just was able to put himself
Speaker 1: aside and give you what you needed. I mean, he
Speaker 1: was doing a different TV showed this episode, you know,
Speaker 1: like with Brook, We're going to party, You're gonna have
Speaker 1: the best summer ever, getting tanned, and he's like doing crazy,
Speaker 1: he's doing training. I'm realizing as you as you say
Speaker 1: that as a viewer who has watched the Nathan and
Speaker 1: Haley dynamic and watched the Peyton and Lucas dynamic, it's
Speaker 1: almost like and yes, Chris Keller was conflated in Haley's dream,
Speaker 1: But as viewers were getting to see Luke say to
Speaker 1: Peyton what we kind of wished Nathan had said to Haley,
Speaker 1: like go I'll be here. You know, he came, he came,
Speaker 1: he drove to the show, and then you went on
Speaker 1: stage and then he was gone, like and we were
Speaker 1: all so like, no, do it, stay with her. She's
Speaker 1: your person. And so I wonder if there's also a
Speaker 1: little bit of this idea that these boys are learning
Speaker 1: lessons because you said it, Joy, like, this really is
Speaker 1: an episode about these boys and what they're going through
Speaker 1: their dad, you know, being the puppet master. Like, I
Speaker 1: wonder if part of the reason it feels so special
Speaker 1: because yes, Peyton deserves it, and for us as viewers,
Speaker 1: were like, finally one of the boys did it right,
Speaker 1: you know, dude, Yeah he said all the right things. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's growth it is. It is because Lucas before would
Speaker 1: have been like, I don't know, I don't know. I'm
Speaker 1: going to need some time alone to think about We've
Speaker 1: been kind of needy. So yeah, yeah it was nice.
Speaker 1: But again, you know, he was a little distracted with
Speaker 1: you know, the whole murder of his uncle. I just
Speaker 1: like what he had to jump between in this episode
Speaker 1: was I loved his last scene though, just I mean,
Speaker 1: as an actor, wow, he did a good job. He
Speaker 1: did such a good job. I felt worried. I'm still
Speaker 1: worried for Dan because we don't know what happened. You know,
Speaker 1: it's like kind of like didn't well, it's like you
Speaker 1: don't think Lucas has it in him, do you know
Speaker 1: what I mean. It's like, there's no way that little
Speaker 1: punk kid would shoot his dad. You know, we've seen
Speaker 1: Dan strangle him, We've seen Dan assault multiple people. We
Speaker 1: saw Dan hit him in the face at the beginning
Speaker 1: of the episode. And so how far can you push
Speaker 1: this kid? We oh, yeah, we've seen Dan kill his uncle.
Speaker 1: How far do you push this kid? Yeah? God, I
Speaker 1: can't believe this wasn't our like season finale, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean. Definitely feels like a season finale. It's
Speaker 1: weird that we're just like left in limbo. We'll get
Speaker 1: there next week. Yeah, but this season was bananas, Like,
Speaker 1: really think about it. It became so violent this year
Speaker 1: in a way that I don't think it was in
Speaker 1: years past what was happening in pop culture that was
Speaker 1: so violent that they were like, you know what, we
Speaker 1: need guns. I think we were just I think we
Speaker 1: were just constantly under the shadow of or the fear,
Speaker 1: I don't even know what the word is. We were
Speaker 1: under the pressure to perform in the same way as
Speaker 1: like Gossip Girl and The OC and all these shows
Speaker 1: that were in the Vampire Diaries and the stuff that
Speaker 1: was like really heightened. I think that was it, right,
Speaker 1: that has to be it. At least those guys had
Speaker 1: like supernatural elements to their show, you know what I mean, Like, Yeah,
Speaker 1: ours is crazy violence in a small town with like
Speaker 1: I mean the city. Yeah. Our producer is texting us
Speaker 1: in our chat that the Virginia Tech shoot was in
Speaker 1: April two thousand and seven. I mean that was after
Speaker 1: we shot this though, guys in season three, I thought
Speaker 1: the school shooting episode was our one and done with
Speaker 1: like the crazy gun stuff, and it just keeps going. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we thought it was going to be like a commentary
Speaker 1: on something that happened. We didn't know what was going
Speaker 1: to happen and ramp up in the way that it did.
Speaker 1: But but you're right. I almost feel like, because some
Speaker 1: of the supernatural shows and then some of the more
Speaker 1: intensely pushing the line shows, we're going so crazy, the
Speaker 1: folks behind the scenes on our show felt like we
Speaker 1: had to keep up. That's what I was trying to say. Yes, right,
Speaker 1: and like we do what we do really well, and
Speaker 1: I think luckily, by you know, four years into doing this,
Speaker 1: we're established enough that we know how to perform around
Speaker 1: these weird you know, it's like they've taken the hula hoops,
Speaker 1: were jumping through and set them on fire. Were figuring
Speaker 1: it out, but it's like it's on fire. It's really
Speaker 1: it's so very intense, and I am curious. I mean,
Speaker 1: I will admit, and I don't know if you guys
Speaker 1: felt this way, but when we were watching, you know,
Speaker 1: it's so bizarre that Lucas gets a gun from Deb
Speaker 1: and thank God for Barbara Allen Woods just committing to
Speaker 1: add of nowhere, Deb's Deb's lupie and she's got a gun,
Speaker 1: like nobody knows why that's happening. Yeah, yeah, wasn't a hawalapinmal?
Speaker 1: I don't know what it was. I just I also
Speaker 1: liked that they put two cookie jars on the counter. Yeah,
Speaker 1: how did he know which one to go in? Why
Speaker 1: wasn't it the bumpkin? But well they staggered between all
Speaker 1: the lamps, probably, but I think there was a lamp
Speaker 1: next to the pumpkin. But truly, it's like, it's so weird.
Speaker 1: Think God, Barbara committed. But yeah, it's just this wild
Speaker 1: thing that they make him do. But in that scene,
Speaker 1: I thought, well, here's this teenage boy, and he's having
Speaker 1: this really intense moment and he knows what happened and
Speaker 1: nobody's listening. Panic is ensuing. Fine, I did not remember
Speaker 1: that he pulled the trigger? You guys? I didn't same?
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, like like I legitimately have no idea what
Speaker 1: we're going to see next episode? Did he miss did
Speaker 1: he shoot the wall? Like? What happened? Like, guys, can
Speaker 1: people at home tell us if you? I mean, I
Speaker 1: guess if you've seen the show multiple times, you remember,
Speaker 1: But guys, I don't know what the show is right now.
Speaker 1: It's also like, either way it's going to be because
Speaker 1: if he if he shoots Dan, then there's all kinds
Speaker 1: of repercussions. But if he misses at such close range,
Speaker 1: he's really terrible shot. Join he's gonna be embarrassed. Shame, shame.
Speaker 1: But okay. So here's the thing though, with all the crazy, crazy,
Speaker 1: crazy stuff in this episode, I think what our leadership
Speaker 1: was forgetting is that the best scenes the quiet ones
Speaker 1: and then nice ones. And it was the scene where
Speaker 1: Mouth took the yearbook to Jimmy Edwards. Mom, that is
Speaker 1: where was her? Emmy? Like that was so beautiful and
Speaker 1: nuanced and all of us started crying, we should write
Speaker 1: her a note on Drama Queens stationary to tell her
Speaker 1: how much we appreciate that performance. Yeah yeah, but wait,
Speaker 1: you guys, yes, we need to get her on the show.
Speaker 1: And I'm having an oh my god moment because we're
Speaker 1: saying we have no idea what's coming next. But I
Speaker 1: just looked at my notes. I was like, maybe there's
Speaker 1: a clue on these eighteen posts on my desk. Nathan's
Speaker 1: gone to bat for Haley and she's giving that valedictorian speech.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I know what's coming. I know the fact
Speaker 1: that everyone is in that gym graduating. So what the
Speaker 1: hell happens to Lucas firing a gun at Dan while
Speaker 1: Karen has passed out pregnant That in the next episode
Speaker 1: maybe it's the last one. I don't know, But in
Speaker 1: the next two episodes, we're all just in our little
Speaker 1: blue capping gowns, clapping for Haley given her cute little
Speaker 1: speech like what is I feel relieved now? I needed
Speaker 1: this relief because guys, I'm serious, like the acid in
Speaker 1: my throat giving you heartburn. I need to know what's
Speaker 1: gonna be out. Hillary needs two toms and a glass
Speaker 1: of water. You know, maybe it's the heightened stuff that
Speaker 1: they did that also made this smaller moment stand out more.
Speaker 1: That's true. They're diamonds. Yeah, that's true. Okay, we do
Speaker 1: have a listener question from Sierra. Do you think it's
Speaker 1: the Sierra? Oh? My god, didn't you imagine how cool
Speaker 1: it would be? Yeah, she's a huge drama beens fan.
Speaker 1: I know it. She can come on our show anytime.
Speaker 1: Sierra are Idol asks. You've talked many times on the
Speaker 1: show about how the parents aren't featured much and don't
Speaker 1: get any history, and the ones that are shown frequently
Speaker 1: are underutilized. If you could give one of the parents
Speaker 1: a backstory or a history, what would it be. Oh?
Speaker 1: I would love to see a whole like literally would
Speaker 1: love to see a whole TV series on Dan's childhood.
Speaker 1: I love an anti hero. It's like the Penguin or Joker. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: the Joker. I could watch that movie so many times. Yes,
Speaker 1: I'm so fascinated. It's like the the kid that wanted
Speaker 1: to be a psychology major in me. I want I
Speaker 1: want to watch that. Yeah, because imagine if you watched
Speaker 1: a show about two brothers and one grew up to
Speaker 1: be the Riddler and one grew up to be Batman.
Speaker 1: You'd be like, obviously, how fun. Yes, you should pitch
Speaker 1: that somewhere, Sophia, Okay, you wanted to hear first kids,
Speaker 1: we're going to the comic books. They're related. As I'm
Speaker 1: watching Karen and I'm like seeing the Lucas Peyton relationship,
Speaker 1: it's just now dawning on me after all of these
Speaker 1: years that Karen, who does not have a mother and father,
Speaker 1: and who has no siblings, and is this like lone
Speaker 1: wolf girl, is Peyton Sawyer, Like they're the same person,
Speaker 1: And it's only now just making sense to me. Whoa,
Speaker 1: that's so interesting. But we'd never ever find out why
Speaker 1: Karen doesn't have a family or any friends, like never
Speaker 1: one never Who was Karen's brooke Davis in high school? Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's crazy, because I will tell you single moms can't
Speaker 1: make it without friends, you can exactly. And like she
Speaker 1: was homecoming queen, she was on the Chilean squad. Your
Speaker 1: friends don't ditch you, like cheerleading runs deeper than Dan Scott.
Speaker 1: Goddamn it. But this is one of the things that's
Speaker 1: frustrating about television is look shows have they got the
Speaker 1: budget they have, and often writers aren't thinking, well, you
Speaker 1: know what we're gonna do. We're going to invest in
Speaker 1: one of our two male leads. We're going to invest
Speaker 1: in his mom's friends. We're going to see these people
Speaker 1: and especially, you know, actors. Let's be honest, like we're
Speaker 1: trying to find regular jobs. It's hard to have a
Speaker 1: job where you get an episode here in an episode there,
Speaker 1: if you're semi retired and you happen to live in
Speaker 1: the filming town where it's happening. Cool, but I think
Speaker 1: it gets really tricky. We know how it is to
Speaker 1: lose characters to booking shows. You know, we did it
Speaker 1: on this show. And you can never ask someone to
Speaker 1: simey their career to be able to show up only
Speaker 1: when you need them. Cool. Simy's a nice word, isn't it.
Speaker 1: It would have been so cool to figure out because
Speaker 1: there's so much incredible you know, theater and improv and
Speaker 1: local talent and Molmington. I would have loved to see
Speaker 1: some time with Karen's like cheer squad friends and the
Speaker 1: ones who turned their back on her and the ones
Speaker 1: who stayed and how they heal as adults like Oh
Speaker 1: that would been so cool. Oh yeah, there's a whole
Speaker 1: show somewhere, right, Like what if Glenda's mother was actually
Speaker 1: one of Karen's friends in high school? Oh, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean, And that's why she's fixated on being
Speaker 1: popular and stuff, you know. Yeah, what's our honorable mention?
Speaker 1: I mean Jimmy's mom, right, Oh, missus give her the trophies. Man.
Speaker 1: She was so wonderful and just what she communicates, her looks,
Speaker 1: her moments. It's really incredible when you watch somebody who
Speaker 1: doesn't say much but says everything with their face. Yeah,
Speaker 1: renee Vincent, remarkable, Renee Vincent. That was such a arkable performance.
Speaker 1: And we got so lucky with our talent in North Carolina.
Speaker 1: The people that came to play with us made us better.
Speaker 1: And so I'm so happy that Lee got to have
Speaker 1: that moment. You know, he had to do a lot
Speaker 1: of really questionable stuff this season, with the Rachel stuff
Speaker 1: and the Shelley stuff and even the gig stuff, you know,
Speaker 1: and yeah, for him to have this really sincere, genuine
Speaker 1: moment with a very talented actor, awesome, extremely talented Renee Vincent,
Speaker 1: it definitely gets the honorable mention. I liked everything Lee
Speaker 1: had to do in this episode. It was nice to
Speaker 1: your point, like really nice to just see him in
Speaker 1: his goodness. And then that ultimate moment with Jimmy's mom
Speaker 1: with Renee m oh, this is all right? So were
Speaker 1: you going to spin a wheel? Are we spinning a wheel?
Speaker 1: I don't know how we how we do something lighthearted
Speaker 1: for the wheel after this episode, but we're gonna try,
Speaker 1: damn it. No, this is fitting. Most like to become
Speaker 1: a teacher at their old high school. Interrect. Okay, so, which,
Speaker 1: well didn't Haley do exactly that? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, that's
Speaker 1: a no dah. Did any of us in real life
Speaker 1: go back to our high school and teach? I feel
Speaker 1: like you would, Hill. You do fundraisers at your high school.
Speaker 1: I go back to my high school when I can, y'all.
Speaker 1: I love school, that little ecosystem. Cool. Yeah, all day.
Speaker 1: I gotta go in. On Thursday, I'm mentoring Civics Club
Speaker 1: and we're doing we're doing a short film on the
Speaker 1: Fiddler's Bridge Murder and these kids are doing like local
Speaker 1: folk tales and I'm like, yeah, that's that's an education, right,
Speaker 1: someone else can teach math. I'm going to teach like
Speaker 1: murder and ghosts stuff. That's fun. Is that a real
Speaker 1: class murder and ghost stuff? I would sign up for
Speaker 1: that class. Yeah. Yeah, it's an ap course. It sounds
Speaker 1: like a school, a class in the School of Communications
Speaker 1: at college where you're like, yeah, I want to learn
Speaker 1: full Yeah. Um. I like going back to visit my
Speaker 1: high school. I've done that a couple of times. And
Speaker 1: I went pre pandemic and spoke at this savent at USC.
Speaker 1: That was so fun and I got to see all
Speaker 1: my favorite professors, Like yeah, I just get so excited
Speaker 1: when I get to see my teachers, And I think
Speaker 1: it's really special when you get to invest in the
Speaker 1: places that you grew up in. Yeah. You know who
Speaker 1: grew up and worked in a school is Colin Feckis
Speaker 1: Lay Jimmy Edwards like co and Go. He was working
Speaker 1: in a school and now he works for stock Aide Works,
Speaker 1: which is a film nonprofit up here, which is pretty
Speaker 1: much a school where it teaches people who do like
Speaker 1: vocational jobs how to apply them to film and so
Speaker 1: he's still in the process of teaching. That's full circle.
Speaker 1: It really is. So it's Colin Colin for real life,
Speaker 1: and I feel like we gotta go teach a a
Speaker 1: class about podcasting or something. We should be guest lecturers somewhere.
Speaker 1: Oh well, I'm doing an Artist in Action day and
Speaker 1: like two weeks they're like, they're like, Hillary, will you
Speaker 1: come give the keynote to a bunch of middle schoolers?
Speaker 1: And I'm terrified. I was like, what is it, entail?
Speaker 1: And they're like, I don't know, whatever you think middle
Speaker 1: schoolers need to hear. And I'm like, what, No, Like,
Speaker 1: let me just light myself on fire real quick. I
Speaker 1: literally talked to any other age group middle schoolers. So
Speaker 1: terrifying because I just walked up. My daughter was at
Speaker 1: a we were all sort of like a house paray,
Speaker 1: like an after basketball party, and she had gone upstairs
Speaker 1: with some of the all the adults were hanging out downstairs.
Speaker 1: She had gone upstairs to some girls. I walked up
Speaker 1: there to say goodbye to her because I was leaving,
Speaker 1: and I walk in the room. I'm you know, knock knock,
Speaker 1: Who is it? Oh, it's miss Joy. I'm coming to
Speaker 1: say goodbye Marie. Okay. I opened the door. I walk in.
Speaker 1: It's like a it's a the room. All the lights
Speaker 1: are out, but the black lights are on and like,
Speaker 1: Maria's across the room, so I have to walk through
Speaker 1: a gaggle of like twelve and thirteen year old girls
Speaker 1: to get to her. And I wasn't even thinking. I
Speaker 1: just walk in. I get halfway through the room and
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm in the wrong placed, and I just retreated.
Speaker 1: I didn't. I just shouted at her from across the room.
Speaker 1: I was like, I love you, come by, and just
Speaker 1: retreated out like I'm so sorry. I'm really sorry. There
Speaker 1: is nothing cool you can do in middle school high
Speaker 1: schools where um, all right, well guys, we get to
Speaker 1: graduate so soon, so soon. I think it's in the
Speaker 1: next episode. Yeah, all right, we're gonna see your big speech.
Speaker 1: What is it? Season four, episode twenty the Earth and
Speaker 1: Death of the Day. Jeez again, Maybe the birth is happy,
Speaker 1: maybe Jamie comes. Yeah, yeah, I got high hopes. I
Speaker 1: need to cling to some happiness here. Okay, fingers cross,
Speaker 1: all right, we'll see you guys next week. Thanks for
Speaker 1: hanging out show, Hey, thanks for listening. Don't forget to
Speaker 1: leave us a review. You can also follow us on
Speaker 1: Instagram at drama queens oth or email us at drama
Speaker 1: Queens at iHeartRadio dot com. See you next time. We
Speaker 1: all about that high school drama. Girl, Drama Girl, all
Speaker 1: about them high school queens forever. We'll take you for
Speaker 1: a ride at our comic girl sharing for the right
Speaker 1: teen drama queens girl fashion, but your tough girl, you
Speaker 1: could sit with us. Girl Drama, Queens, Drama, Queens, Drama,
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