WEBVTT - Spicy Margs To Go: WP Next to SXSW 0:00:00.640 --> 0:00:04.360 I'm off my game today. No, you're not. People are 0:00:04.360 --> 0:00:06.200 going to have to start making better content. I think 0:00:06.200 --> 0:00:07.720 we're gonna be talking about this for a long time. 0:00:07.800 --> 0:00:10.800 When you program for everyone, you program for no one. 0:00:10.800 --> 0:00:12.879 I think it's a were purpose driven platform. Like we're 0:00:12.880 --> 0:00:16.200 trying to get to substance? How was that? Are you 0:00:16.239 --> 0:00:19.840 happy with that? This is marketing therapy right now? And 0:00:19.880 --> 0:00:24.400 it really is? What's up? I'm Laura Currency and I'm 0:00:24.400 --> 0:00:28.000 Alexa Kristen. Welcome back to at Landia. Hey everybody. So 0:00:28.120 --> 0:00:33.360 recently Laura, myself and Cam our producer and producer, we're 0:00:33.400 --> 0:00:37.880 down in Keepiskene, Florida for the Washington Post Next conference. 0:00:38.040 --> 0:00:42.120 We did a live recording and UM we had a 0:00:42.120 --> 0:00:44.320 great conversation with some folks there. Yeah, I mean it 0:00:44.400 --> 0:00:47.120 was really interesting to be front and center with Amelia 0:00:47.200 --> 0:00:50.080 Garcia Ruez who is there managing editor, and Jed Hartman, 0:00:50.120 --> 0:00:52.800 who is their chief revenue officer, and get the difference 0:00:52.800 --> 0:00:55.920 in opinion on things like KPIs and the tension that 0:00:55.960 --> 0:01:00.120 exists between brand experience UM for readers and technology. You 0:01:00.160 --> 0:01:02.400 what they're doing to really kind of push the industry 0:01:02.440 --> 0:01:06.240 forward and think differently about uh, new products. So Yeah, 0:01:06.240 --> 0:01:08.600 we had a great time, So thank you Washington Post 0:01:08.680 --> 0:01:11.400 for hosting us and furnishing probably one of the best 0:01:11.400 --> 0:01:14.000 spicy margarita is I think we've had on the show. Yeah, 0:01:14.040 --> 0:01:16.000 we definitely got through the second round the crowd and 0:01:16.000 --> 0:01:17.720 I think they were very excited. I have to say 0:01:18.440 --> 0:01:23.160 Amelio definitely hit the second one quickly. So this weekend 0:01:23.160 --> 0:01:27.120 Atlandia UM coming back off my visit down to one of, 0:01:27.400 --> 0:01:32.240 if not my favorite town outside of the Tri state, Austin, Texas. 0:01:32.360 --> 0:01:34.280 I have to say something about Austin. I was like 0:01:34.360 --> 0:01:37.119 totally skeptical of Austin, and then I went down like 0:01:37.440 --> 0:01:39.960 a couple of years ago to visit friends and I 0:01:40.000 --> 0:01:45.080 went to the Alamo Alamo Drafthouse, Fried Pickles, get them 0:01:45.360 --> 0:01:50.080 watch a movie Crunch. Crunch It's the best thing in Texas. Underrated. 0:01:50.280 --> 0:01:52.480 So I didn't have time to get to the Alamo Drafthouse, 0:01:52.520 --> 0:01:54.800 but I did spend quite a bit of time downtown 0:01:54.840 --> 0:01:59.680 south by Southwest and one of the big winners I saw. 0:01:59.680 --> 0:02:02.720 And another reason why I think brands continue or need 0:02:02.760 --> 0:02:07.480 to continue to show up at these sort of conferences 0:02:09.280 --> 0:02:12.440 right is because it gives people both in the industry 0:02:12.440 --> 0:02:15.480 and from a consumer standpoint, a chance to touch the 0:02:15.520 --> 0:02:20.520 brand in a way that isn't always accessible through day 0:02:20.560 --> 0:02:23.280 to day interaction. I also think to that point, and 0:02:23.320 --> 0:02:25.480 when we were talking about this, when you were down there, 0:02:25.720 --> 0:02:27.960 I had this moment where it was like, so many 0:02:28.040 --> 0:02:30.960 brands actually, if they go down or if they're at 0:02:30.960 --> 0:02:33.639 an event like south By, they actually have the opportunity 0:02:33.760 --> 0:02:36.040 strike out and do something different than they would in 0:02:36.080 --> 0:02:39.320 their full like marketing media mix. Right, it's a chance 0:02:39.320 --> 0:02:42.480 to experiment for sure, and and and truly innovate. I 0:02:42.520 --> 0:02:44.800 remember because we were That's why you said, because I 0:02:44.840 --> 0:02:46.600 was talking to a couple of clients down there. And 0:02:46.639 --> 0:02:48.560 it's funny. It's like, if there's ever a place to 0:02:48.720 --> 0:02:54.760 test whether it's tech, art, science, data like Austin, is 0:02:54.760 --> 0:02:57.400 the place in south By in particular where all of 0:02:57.440 --> 0:02:59.520 those things intersect. So it's like, what do you have 0:02:59.600 --> 0:03:00.960 to lose? You, what do you have to lose? I 0:03:01.000 --> 0:03:03.400 agree with that, and and I love the idea that 0:03:03.400 --> 0:03:06.040 you were talking about. Was like it's tangible, yeah, and 0:03:06.080 --> 0:03:08.000 you can touch it. And so I'll give you a 0:03:08.080 --> 0:03:10.240 list of some of the things that caught my eye 0:03:10.280 --> 0:03:12.519 and and some of the things that I heard um 0:03:12.560 --> 0:03:15.359 at the JW. Marriott that were some fan favorites. So 0:03:15.680 --> 0:03:19.480 American Gods is a show on stars to this enormous bowl, 0:03:19.560 --> 0:03:21.519 like you could not miss this ship. It was a 0:03:21.600 --> 0:03:26.960 huge bull be all. It was a bowl and it 0:03:27.040 --> 0:03:31.440 was a show stopping and arresting UM experience, whereas Prison, 0:03:32.000 --> 0:03:35.640 Prison Break, UM did this escape room that I actually 0:03:35.680 --> 0:03:37.280 didn't have a chance to go through, but a lot 0:03:37.320 --> 0:03:39.960 of my colleagues did and said it was such unique experience. 0:03:40.000 --> 0:03:41.440 You felt like you actually got in and around the 0:03:41.480 --> 0:03:43.440 brand and felt like you were actually on the set, 0:03:43.480 --> 0:03:46.080 which I think is another way to give people a 0:03:46.120 --> 0:03:49.000 different perspective. One that I did get a chance to 0:03:49.040 --> 0:03:51.440 see UM, which is right around the corner from a 0:03:51.440 --> 0:03:53.200 place I actually used to bartend, so I know the 0:03:53.200 --> 0:03:57.400 street very well, they know me well. Was breaking Bads, 0:03:57.480 --> 0:04:02.160 Los Poilos Armanos set and actually two of the actors 0:04:02.200 --> 0:04:06.280 gian Carlos Posito and Bob Auden Kirker Kirk, I'm going 0:04:06.320 --> 0:04:08.720 to mess that up. Thank you actually came by and 0:04:08.760 --> 0:04:11.040 again it's it's this really cool way to and and 0:04:11.120 --> 0:04:14.920 also it's such a low key kick back vibe and 0:04:14.960 --> 0:04:17.120 I think it gives you a chance to see, you know, 0:04:17.160 --> 0:04:20.200 the celebrities getting into it, but again a very non 0:04:20.240 --> 0:04:25.120 Hollywood glamorous because like three years ago, right, it was 0:04:25.200 --> 0:04:30.719 like lines around the corner, celebrities everywhere, but it felt 0:04:30.760 --> 0:04:33.560 like it was more plugged in, like more amped, and 0:04:33.680 --> 0:04:36.880 almost like to a point where it got overamped, you know, 0:04:37.080 --> 0:04:39.080 I feel like we're over the cliff, right, like some 0:04:39.200 --> 0:04:41.520 of the foam has come down on the beer and 0:04:41.560 --> 0:04:44.600 like it's a good drink. Well. I think that the 0:04:44.640 --> 0:04:46.840 stars of south By were actually different this year. It 0:04:46.880 --> 0:04:50.400 was a very politically charged south By UM so Cecil Richards, 0:04:50.400 --> 0:04:53.320 the president Plan Parenthood, was down there talking a lot 0:04:53.400 --> 0:04:55.960 about how tech stands with Planned Parenthood, which I thought 0:04:56.000 --> 0:04:58.560 was really interesting. I did take a picture with her, 0:04:58.680 --> 0:05:02.000 you can see it on her Instagram. A podcast Joe 0:05:02.000 --> 0:05:04.920 Biden gave a huge talk down there relative to healthcare 0:05:05.320 --> 0:05:07.400 camp cancer UM, and I would say the star of 0:05:07.400 --> 0:05:09.800 the show, and I'm not biased because I am a 0:05:09.839 --> 0:05:12.800 resident from New Jersey UM was Corey Booker, who had 0:05:12.800 --> 0:05:15.640 a key note. From what I understand, there was overspill 0:05:16.080 --> 0:05:18.640 that standing room only didn't even have an overspill room 0:05:18.760 --> 0:05:20.360 or overflow. I should say, I'm not talking about me 0:05:20.360 --> 0:05:23.680 and my gene so I think it was interesting to 0:05:23.720 --> 0:05:27.200 see um a political leader come and obviously we've talked 0:05:27.240 --> 0:05:29.680 about politics quite a bit on our show, but all 0:05:29.760 --> 0:05:31.800 these worlds are really starting to blur. I was just 0:05:31.839 --> 0:05:35.880 gonna say, issues causes blending now with tech, and I 0:05:35.880 --> 0:05:39.200 wonder my question to you, was tech as responsive like 0:05:39.240 --> 0:05:43.799 the tech crowd, as responsive to the politicians, the people 0:05:43.920 --> 0:05:45.840 like the n g O s, those types of people 0:05:45.880 --> 0:05:49.120 who showed up. Well, these organizations know that they need them, right, 0:05:49.160 --> 0:05:52.520 They need advancements in tech to help scale their causes. 0:05:52.560 --> 0:05:55.479 But it's always been that way. I also also conversations 0:05:55.520 --> 0:05:57.600 that now tech has to get closer to d C, 0:05:58.040 --> 0:06:00.479 the belt Way, right and I in a way that 0:06:00.520 --> 0:06:03.040 they never have. This is a great kind of place 0:06:03.080 --> 0:06:05.800 for them to me UM. One of the other things 0:06:05.839 --> 0:06:09.200 that was really cool, UH was podcasting, how a presence, 0:06:09.240 --> 0:06:11.960 I think for the first time UM and I think 0:06:12.000 --> 0:06:14.479 they're still talking though about advertising. I mean, their general 0:06:14.520 --> 0:06:17.720 which isn't a bad thing, right and it's early. It's 0:06:17.760 --> 0:06:20.960 early days, is to say listen, brands need to start 0:06:21.200 --> 0:06:25.240 experimenting with podcasting now because it's an easy way in right, 0:06:25.760 --> 0:06:29.240 in branded content, in sure, in advertising, just straight up 0:06:29.279 --> 0:06:31.880 advertising that's not a bad thing, it's a good thing. 0:06:32.520 --> 0:06:35.479 But to get to a really comfortable place where you say, 0:06:35.520 --> 0:06:39.080 wait a second, what's my brand's value in audio in 0:06:39.120 --> 0:06:44.159 these conversational interfaces, when our lives become so programmed, right, 0:06:44.279 --> 0:06:50.400 we tell our Alexa to only order tied. Right, I'm 0:06:50.400 --> 0:06:53.040 not even kidding. So if it is getting there, you say, 0:06:53.200 --> 0:06:55.000 I mean this is a simple example, right, you say, 0:06:55.120 --> 0:06:56.880 only order tied. I don't want to hear about any 0:06:56.880 --> 0:07:00.960 other laundry detergent definitely, And I think again it's it's 0:07:01.000 --> 0:07:04.159 early days. Um. But it was just really exciting to 0:07:04.240 --> 0:07:07.719 see so many great podcasters um, and people in the 0:07:07.760 --> 0:07:11.440 podcast industry down at south By. That was a new one. Um. 0:07:11.480 --> 0:07:13.760 I'll tell you what my favorite. One of my favorite 0:07:13.760 --> 0:07:19.080 consumer things of south By was accessories. Um, everything old 0:07:19.160 --> 0:07:20.760 is new again is something that I feel, like I've 0:07:20.760 --> 0:07:23.720 said on the last two shows, but pins, like straight 0:07:23.800 --> 0:07:26.960 up old school buttons and pins. They've been like they've 0:07:26.960 --> 0:07:30.600 been getting really total nineties nostalgia. But my favorite thing 0:07:30.600 --> 0:07:33.680 I came on with was a customed Jane jacket that 0:07:33.800 --> 0:07:37.080 I designed with the Ladies of Soul Cycle. Um. So 0:07:37.120 --> 0:07:40.600 it was total badass, like skull and crossbones Jeane Jacket 0:07:40.720 --> 0:07:43.240 Levi's hello. I mean I thought it was like it 0:07:43.280 --> 0:07:44.680 was No, it was so. It was not that kind 0:07:44.680 --> 0:07:48.400 of skull cross it was. It was the sole cycle version. Um. 0:07:48.480 --> 0:07:51.920 And they had these three young women who were um 0:07:52.400 --> 0:07:57.280 seams artists and they were hand sewing and stitching these jackets. UM. 0:07:57.320 --> 0:07:59.040 So the back of my jacket if you see a 0:07:59.080 --> 0:08:03.920 girl walking around, you know, I thought about it. Maybe 0:08:03.920 --> 0:08:06.520 that would be the next one. It says savage and 0:08:08.440 --> 0:08:12.560 with some cactus patches. Anyhow, it was a lot of fun. 0:08:12.600 --> 0:08:14.760 I'll tell you who the losers were really quickly. The weather. 0:08:14.880 --> 0:08:17.240 The weather sucked and the weather totally brings down the 0:08:17.320 --> 0:08:18.880 vibe and awesome because you just want to be outside 0:08:18.880 --> 0:08:22.280 and walking around. And rain, which leads to my next 0:08:22.360 --> 0:08:25.320 big loser. Car service apps, so Uber and Lyft for 0:08:25.320 --> 0:08:28.360 those who don't know, is not often UM. So they 0:08:28.400 --> 0:08:30.680 had these two that were I feel like jockeying for 0:08:30.760 --> 0:08:33.319 like the Star of south By from a car service standpoint, 0:08:33.640 --> 0:08:36.800 Fasten and Fair and both of them were failing miserably 0:08:36.800 --> 0:08:39.679 in the rain. UM. And then the last big loser 0:08:40.760 --> 0:08:46.040 were these panels that feel like a redundancy see of 0:08:46.160 --> 0:08:49.520 same The panel, no speaking panels speaking, which is something 0:08:49.559 --> 0:08:51.800 that you and I have talked about. I would definitely 0:08:51.960 --> 0:08:55.480 challenge the industry a bit too, to reimagine putting four 0:08:55.520 --> 0:08:58.640 people up on stools that are definitely look so uncomfortable. 0:08:59.200 --> 0:09:01.040 Like I mean, at the end of the day, you 0:09:01.080 --> 0:09:04.600 need someone to have some point of view on something 0:09:04.640 --> 0:09:07.520 that they've done, and you need some experience, right and 0:09:07.520 --> 0:09:09.679 everyone think it's like how this applies to me in 0:09:09.720 --> 0:09:12.280 the audience? Well, reason for being there. I mean for me, 0:09:12.440 --> 0:09:14.560 what I would love to see is like a redo, 0:09:15.080 --> 0:09:18.480 a different take on the format. Let's just three do 0:09:18.640 --> 0:09:21.080 a different take on the format. I don't have an answer. 0:09:21.240 --> 0:09:22.640 I don't know. We can think about this, I can 0:09:22.720 --> 0:09:26.280 think about it. So I think that all in all, 0:09:26.440 --> 0:09:28.400 you had a good time in south By. You didn't 0:09:28.400 --> 0:09:30.800 have my fried pickles at the Aluma, but that's okay. 0:09:30.840 --> 0:09:32.760 You go down there again. Because you're a hook them girl. 0:09:33.000 --> 0:09:37.280 I am. I am a longhorn hook them Anyway, We're 0:09:37.280 --> 0:09:41.120 going to roll into our live record that we did 0:09:41.240 --> 0:09:44.000 with the Washington Post at the Washington Post next conference 0:09:44.040 --> 0:09:59.840 and key a Biscayne, we'll be right back. Should as 0:09:59.880 --> 0:10:06.520 a about to get so real, so I'm Laura Carenti, 0:10:06.640 --> 0:10:09.800 I'm Alexa Christian and this is Atlandia. So we're super 0:10:09.840 --> 0:10:14.439 excited to have two industry veterans join us today, Amilio 0:10:14.720 --> 0:10:18.360 Garcia Ruez, who is the managing editor of The Washington Post, 0:10:18.840 --> 0:10:21.680 and Jed Hartman, the c r O of the Washington Post. 0:10:22.120 --> 0:10:25.680 So obviously the industry, um guys has been talking a 0:10:25.720 --> 0:10:30.640 lot about your breaking tagline, democracy dies in the darkness. 0:10:30.679 --> 0:10:34.080 Although Amelia, after last night, we're convinced that the darkness 0:10:34.080 --> 0:10:36.360 also brings out the best of democracy after we saw 0:10:36.360 --> 0:10:43.000 you on the dance floor, So yeah, are you going 0:10:43.040 --> 0:10:49.280 to shake it? But we're we're, obviously like everybody here 0:10:49.320 --> 0:10:52.880 with us today at the Washington Post Next Conference, enamored 0:10:52.960 --> 0:10:55.520 with the courage and the bravery it took for a 0:10:55.559 --> 0:10:58.280 hundred and thirty year brand to come out with a tagline. 0:10:58.520 --> 0:11:00.840 And Alexa and I really just want to know why now? 0:11:01.679 --> 0:11:04.880 So why now is has nothing to do with Donald Trump, 0:11:04.920 --> 0:11:08.520 although the timing seems to be that way. We began 0:11:08.640 --> 0:11:12.240 working on tagline branding thing a couple of years ago, 0:11:12.840 --> 0:11:16.920 and newspapers or publishers, i should say, are terrible at 0:11:16.960 --> 0:11:18.600 that sort of thing. We're just not very good at marketing. 0:11:18.640 --> 0:11:20.960 We don't like doing it, and uh, it took us 0:11:21.000 --> 0:11:23.360 a very long time. We had consultants come in, we 0:11:23.400 --> 0:11:25.800 had meeting after meeting after meeting. Jed was a part 0:11:25.800 --> 0:11:28.640 of the process, and we were sort of kind of stuck. 0:11:28.880 --> 0:11:32.280 And eventually we got to this point where Jeff uh 0:11:32.280 --> 0:11:36.160 in conversations with Bob Woodward, the fame journalist, came back 0:11:36.200 --> 0:11:39.000 with this democracy dies in darkness thing. And you know, 0:11:39.280 --> 0:11:42.199 newsrooms in general are very cynical places, so that is 0:11:42.240 --> 0:11:45.440 you can imagine. The first reaction was, oh my god, really, 0:11:45.480 --> 0:11:47.760 what else are you gonna come up with? But as 0:11:47.760 --> 0:11:49.920 it time went on, we all sort of grew closer 0:11:49.920 --> 0:11:52.360 to it. We look at a lot of alternatives, uh, 0:11:52.400 --> 0:11:55.719 and nothing quite fit, and finally we settled on what 0:11:55.760 --> 0:11:57.800 we settled on that came out a couple weeks ago. Yeah, 0:11:57.800 --> 0:11:59.720 I mean, you know, Alexa and I have been talking 0:11:59.760 --> 0:12:01.400 a lot over the last few days since we've been 0:12:01.559 --> 0:12:05.000 down here in Miami, just about obviously the new cycle 0:12:05.040 --> 0:12:07.920 and what um it's brought to the surface, which is 0:12:07.960 --> 0:12:11.960 the credibility of journalism. UM. What we find interesting is 0:12:12.080 --> 0:12:16.960 this kind of tension between scale um versus quality is 0:12:16.960 --> 0:12:19.760 a truly a race to the bottom or is there 0:12:19.840 --> 0:12:22.480 this more important time now than ever to kind of 0:12:22.480 --> 0:12:24.880 separate yourselves from the pack and start thinking about how 0:12:24.880 --> 0:12:27.760 you come to the market from a quality standpoint. Are 0:12:27.840 --> 0:12:30.600 you speaking about a marketer coming from a quality standpoint 0:12:30.720 --> 0:12:34.480 or a publisher? But then how do marketers how do 0:12:34.600 --> 0:12:37.959 marketers spot you right quickly doing that, and how do 0:12:38.080 --> 0:12:43.480 they engage with you doing that? Sure? So I think 0:12:43.559 --> 0:12:46.800 it depends on what a marketer's true goals are with 0:12:46.880 --> 0:12:50.640 the real kpi and not superficial kpi click through those 0:12:50.679 --> 0:12:53.839 are all superficial kpi. No marketers, unless you're an add 0:12:53.840 --> 0:12:56.240 tech company, make money on clickthrough, You make money on 0:12:56.280 --> 0:12:59.760 something else, right, So it depends on your real KPI 0:13:00.760 --> 0:13:04.679 to really leverage Washington Post or other publishers. It's to 0:13:04.760 --> 0:13:08.520 understand what is the audience engaging with, what do they 0:13:08.720 --> 0:13:12.520 on their own organically, and how does that intersect with 0:13:13.000 --> 0:13:16.760 a marketer's objectives and do you look for a sweet 0:13:16.760 --> 0:13:19.560 spot in there and then you capitalize it and it 0:13:19.559 --> 0:13:23.520 which seems so easy, However, it can be very difficult 0:13:24.120 --> 0:13:27.400 for a marketer sometimes to leave a core message to 0:13:27.480 --> 0:13:31.320 get closer to what the publisher is organically engaging their 0:13:31.360 --> 0:13:33.720 audience with So it's looking for that, and it's the 0:13:33.760 --> 0:13:36.840 onus is on us to find that, and the onus 0:13:36.960 --> 0:13:40.680 is on the marketer to look for that. I want 0:13:41.120 --> 0:13:44.440 to want to want that and it Both of those 0:13:44.480 --> 0:13:46.600 things are challenges. We have to find the right intersection 0:13:46.640 --> 0:13:48.559 that, but but the marketers to say I want that intersection. 0:13:48.679 --> 0:13:52.199 I don't want this just us talking about ourselves to 0:13:52.400 --> 0:13:54.280 people who may or may not want to hear that. 0:13:54.320 --> 0:13:56.560 I want to find where it intersects. So the focus 0:13:56.559 --> 0:13:59.480 on technology with Washington Post, to focus on new products 0:13:59.480 --> 0:14:01.840 with Washington tim Post. Has that made it easier to 0:14:02.000 --> 0:14:07.240 get to that engagement metric? Absolutely? How so? I mean 0:14:07.840 --> 0:14:12.160 for many years advertising has been about the marriage of 0:14:12.240 --> 0:14:15.280 art and science. You could look at holding companies, websites. 0:14:16.080 --> 0:14:18.000 It has. I would argue though, that there are many 0:14:18.200 --> 0:14:22.800 new news uh publishers that would say they're leading for 0:14:22.840 --> 0:14:24.880 scale because they're relying on tech. We were having this 0:14:24.920 --> 0:14:27.680 really interesting conversation about the fact that you're tied to 0:14:28.200 --> 0:14:31.120 this rich legacy of investigative journalism that was born out 0:14:31.120 --> 0:14:33.920 of the Beltway. Um, now you've been able to use 0:14:33.960 --> 0:14:36.640 technology to help scale. I actually think that's not even 0:14:36.640 --> 0:14:39.080 giving you enough credit. So this is where I think 0:14:39.120 --> 0:14:42.160 you're not even giving us endit. No, no, like this 0:14:42.160 --> 0:14:43.760 this is the show, right, this is what we do. 0:14:43.840 --> 0:14:46.000 But like, I actually think that you've thought about journalism 0:14:46.000 --> 0:14:50.840 and technology together first. It's what's the experience? Right, I 0:14:50.840 --> 0:14:52.320 think I think you got to go to the evolution 0:14:52.320 --> 0:14:54.360 of this, right, And my team is tired of me 0:14:54.800 --> 0:14:57.200 hearing me say this. But for years, on one side 0:14:57.200 --> 0:15:00.640 of the spectrum, you had the traditional public. Here's the Post, 0:15:00.680 --> 0:15:03.120 the Times, the Wall Street Journal, l A Times are 0:15:03.120 --> 0:15:05.400 over here. And then you had the disruptors come in, right, 0:15:05.440 --> 0:15:09.360 the Huffington Post, buzz Feeds, people like that. And so 0:15:09.480 --> 0:15:11.960 we existed in these sort of parallel universes for a 0:15:11.960 --> 0:15:15.160 while until we began to learn from them the audience 0:15:15.160 --> 0:15:17.880 acquisition techniques that work. So how do you make sure 0:15:17.880 --> 0:15:20.640 your headlines work on Facebook? Your Google search terms are right? 0:15:20.880 --> 0:15:23.440 And all of a sudden, we saw our audiences grow. They, 0:15:23.480 --> 0:15:25.240 on the other hand, decided, we'll wait a minute, we 0:15:25.280 --> 0:15:27.880 need to do more quality. We can't just be only 0:15:27.920 --> 0:15:31.600 about scale, So they began hiring newsrooms. BuzzFeed has a 0:15:31.640 --> 0:15:34.160 pretty large newsroom now, and there is this meeting in 0:15:34.200 --> 0:15:36.840 the middle that is going to happen uh, and that 0:15:37.000 --> 0:15:39.080 is happening now, and I think that's what you're seeing. 0:15:39.400 --> 0:15:42.360 So the reason, the reason we're coming at it from 0:15:42.400 --> 0:15:44.960 a content point is that that's where we started on 0:15:45.000 --> 0:15:47.520 the road. Then we learned the techniques, we added the 0:15:47.520 --> 0:15:50.880 great technology, and we are now sort of ready to rumble. 0:15:51.160 --> 0:15:52.920 On the other side, which you have is people who 0:15:52.920 --> 0:15:55.320 are just now learning the journalism. And you've seen with 0:15:55.480 --> 0:15:58.360 like the problem BuzzFeed had with the UH, with the 0:15:58.440 --> 0:16:02.000 document they chose to make public. Journalism is hard. It's 0:16:02.080 --> 0:16:04.760 just as hard as the technology and the audience audience 0:16:04.760 --> 0:16:10.400 acquisition parts were. But they are and they are the Trump, 0:16:10.520 --> 0:16:13.120 the Trump Dosier, the Yah. Yeah. When they did the 0:16:13.160 --> 0:16:15.720 Trump dossier, they made it public and that was the 0:16:15.760 --> 0:16:18.560 first time you really saw BuzzFeed take big time heat 0:16:18.600 --> 0:16:21.600 for a journalistic decision. Right. So there's a meeting in 0:16:21.640 --> 0:16:24.480 the middle. We're getting closer and closer, and here comes 0:16:24.520 --> 0:16:27.080 the mother of all battles to see who survives. And 0:16:27.240 --> 0:16:29.520 I don't think everybody's gonna be able to survive. I 0:16:29.560 --> 0:16:32.120 think it's the people that have the best technique, audience 0:16:32.160 --> 0:16:36.320 acquisition techniques, the best content and the best technology who 0:16:36.320 --> 0:16:38.640 were going to succeed. And I think that's why Jeff 0:16:38.680 --> 0:16:40.960 believes were so well positioned right now because of the 0:16:41.000 --> 0:16:44.520 three Uh, we think we're the best. Final point is 0:16:44.520 --> 0:16:48.640 if you go back to October, dropped back to October 0:16:48.720 --> 0:16:50.720 and you look at what happened right, this huge story 0:16:50.800 --> 0:16:53.920 was going on in the country, the election was going nuts. Uh, 0:16:53.960 --> 0:16:56.720 and here we are the traditional publishers. And if you 0:16:56.720 --> 0:16:59.600 look at com Score for October, what happened right the 0:16:59.680 --> 0:17:03.560 trade sational publishers, the disrupted actually kick the ass of 0:17:03.640 --> 0:17:08.119 the disruptors. You had US, CNN and The Times leading 0:17:08.240 --> 0:17:12.000 com Score, BuzzFeed and Huffball below. What happened. What happened 0:17:12.080 --> 0:17:15.160 was the story became so important and so big that 0:17:15.160 --> 0:17:16.880 that's what you had to have and we just had 0:17:16.880 --> 0:17:19.760 it better. Alex and I did some homework, um between 0:17:19.960 --> 0:17:22.520 last night and this morning, just about going bring this 0:17:22.640 --> 0:17:25.480 back to the I P. So your partnership with Storied 0:17:25.480 --> 0:17:28.360 Media Group, can you talk about like I P and 0:17:28.440 --> 0:17:32.959 now how it's more important because of technology. So for years, 0:17:33.600 --> 0:17:36.560 if you worked in the newsroom, you had this experience. 0:17:36.720 --> 0:17:40.119 We would write a story and then a the phone 0:17:40.119 --> 0:17:42.200 would ring and it would be somebody claiming to be 0:17:42.240 --> 0:17:46.000 a pulp a producer in Hollywood, and they would say, 0:17:46.000 --> 0:17:48.879 I saw your story on X I would like to 0:17:48.920 --> 0:17:53.640 buy that story. And we all would go, okay, you're 0:17:53.640 --> 0:17:55.480 gonna buy the story. We already wrote the story. What 0:17:55.560 --> 0:17:57.119 do you want to buy the story? And then they 0:17:57.119 --> 0:17:58.600 would say no, no no, we want to do the rights 0:17:58.640 --> 0:18:00.480 to this story. We want to we to make a 0:18:00.560 --> 0:18:02.639 movie or make a TV show out of that. And 0:18:02.640 --> 0:18:06.879 we're like, okay, what are you gonna give us? You know, 0:18:06.920 --> 0:18:09.440 they'd say four dollars and we'd said okay, we'll take 0:18:09.440 --> 0:18:12.120 four dollars. Uh, and that was it and off they went. 0:18:13.080 --> 0:18:15.800 And maybe it got made, maybe it didn't. Maybe they 0:18:15.840 --> 0:18:17.600 reached out to the reporter, or maybe they didn't. It 0:18:17.680 --> 0:18:21.040 just sort of happens. Uh. There was a guy smarter 0:18:21.160 --> 0:18:24.800 than me, unfortunately in Hollywood, had been an agent for 0:18:24.800 --> 0:18:26.400 a long time. We said, wait, wait, wait, every day 0:18:26.480 --> 0:18:30.120 publishers are creating this unbelievable amount of content. I'm gonna 0:18:30.200 --> 0:18:31.840 hire a bunch of people who are gonna sit in 0:18:31.920 --> 0:18:33.919 my office and they're gonna go through all of the 0:18:33.960 --> 0:18:36.639 publisher's content. They're gonna take that content, they're gonna put 0:18:36.640 --> 0:18:40.440 it into a giant database, and they're gonna make the database, uh, 0:18:40.880 --> 0:18:45.200 based on different types of stories. So, uh, story about 0:18:45.320 --> 0:18:48.760 a single woman overcoming long odds, story of trouble family, 0:18:48.880 --> 0:18:51.760 story of refugee, story of whatever. And they're gonna create 0:18:51.800 --> 0:18:54.880 this sort of giant matrix of all the content being 0:18:54.920 --> 0:18:57.439 created in in the country and they're gonna flip it 0:18:57.440 --> 0:18:59.479 and they're gonna say to Hollywood, Hey, you need an 0:18:59.480 --> 0:19:02.520 idea for something, Come on in. Do you think the 0:19:02.600 --> 0:19:04.240 brands have a right to play in that with you? 0:19:05.080 --> 0:19:07.600 Do they have a right to play in it with us? 0:19:07.800 --> 0:19:10.040 I think they do. Ever, I think I think the 0:19:10.080 --> 0:19:11.639 reason I'm up here and the reason I come to 0:19:11.720 --> 0:19:14.199 this event is that we need to explore this right. 0:19:14.200 --> 0:19:17.200 We need to open this dialogue. Uh. So we now 0:19:17.240 --> 0:19:20.240 have this company's representing us in Hollywood, uh, and they 0:19:20.240 --> 0:19:23.840 are going to sell our our stuff. We talked earlier 0:19:23.840 --> 0:19:26.000 about The Butler. The Butler was a story that ran 0:19:26.040 --> 0:19:28.120 in the Washington Post that a producer read that made 0:19:28.160 --> 0:19:30.399 that phone call, and next thing you know, it became 0:19:30.560 --> 0:19:33.720 a movie that I think Oprah did right producing folks. 0:19:33.760 --> 0:19:35.720 So this happens all the time. So what else can 0:19:35.800 --> 0:19:38.879 we do with our i P so that we do 0:19:38.960 --> 0:19:41.800 more than just the one article. Let's try to redefine 0:19:41.840 --> 0:19:44.880 it and let's make it far more effective, sharpened, sharpen 0:19:44.960 --> 0:19:47.640 the sword so that we can hit a specific audience. 0:19:47.760 --> 0:19:49.480 You all can do the same thing with your with 0:19:49.560 --> 0:19:52.120 your branded content. Right instead of trying to put out 0:19:52.119 --> 0:19:55.120 the piece that will appeal to the most people, think 0:19:55.160 --> 0:19:57.399 about it in terms of I'm going to create it 0:19:57.480 --> 0:19:59.480 this way to appeal to these people, this way to 0:19:59.520 --> 0:20:01.879 appeal to the those people, and then put it where 0:20:01.920 --> 0:20:04.160 they are. And if you do those two things that 0:20:04.160 --> 0:20:06.120 that's going to be our strategy going forward. I think 0:20:06.119 --> 0:20:08.360 you'll find a big audience. But how do brands then 0:20:08.880 --> 0:20:11.199 come to you and say, I don't want to just 0:20:11.280 --> 0:20:14.520 do branded content. I don't just want to sponsor something. 0:20:14.720 --> 0:20:16.320 I want to partner with you in a different one. 0:20:16.320 --> 0:20:18.679 I don't just want to I want I want to 0:20:18.680 --> 0:20:21.000 go co produce. What does that look like in this 0:20:21.040 --> 0:20:24.680 new world where i P is focused. It's very difficult. 0:20:25.119 --> 0:20:27.960 Uh And And there is a line between the newsroom 0:20:28.000 --> 0:20:30.720 and advertising, and the line is very simple. We make 0:20:30.760 --> 0:20:34.359 our decisions based on journalistic reasons, not financial reasons. So 0:20:34.520 --> 0:20:37.920 once you get a marketer into that conversation, it can 0:20:37.960 --> 0:20:41.720 become very tricky. Is it impossible. No, We've seen a 0:20:41.720 --> 0:20:43.680 lot of things in the past few years that work fine, 0:20:44.040 --> 0:20:46.800 satisfying both sides of the wall. But you do have 0:20:46.880 --> 0:20:49.720 to be careful, and we need brands and marketers and 0:20:49.760 --> 0:20:52.639