Speaker 1: Hi. This is Milan Vervie and this is Kim Azarelli.
Speaker 1: We are co authors of the book Fast Forward, How
Speaker 1: Women Can Achieve Power and Purpose, And you're listening to
Speaker 1: Seneca Women Conversations on Power and Purpose, brought to you
Speaker 1: by the Seneca Women Podcast Network and I Heart Radio. Well,
Speaker 1: I am so excited to be here today in studio
Speaker 1: with Ambassador Milan Vervie, my colleague, the co founder of
Speaker 1: Seneca Women, my friend, my mentor, and the mentor to
Speaker 1: so many women around the world. Land was the first
Speaker 1: ever appointed Ambassador at Large for global women's issues, and
Speaker 1: we are just so delighted to have you here today. Milan,
Speaker 1: I'm looking forward to our conversation. So at Seneca Women,
Speaker 1: we wish everyone of your phillibic power, purpose and connection,
Speaker 1: particularly in is such a big year for women and
Speaker 1: we have a lot of high hopes for what this
Speaker 1: commune for women's advancement. Milan, why is such an important year? Well,
Speaker 1: I think, besides being a new year, obviously, is a
Speaker 1: special year in terms of women's progress, something you and
Speaker 1: I care very deeply about. This year marks the hundredth
Speaker 1: anniversary of women's suffrage in the United States, an extraordinary
Speaker 1: pioneering moment for women's progress, from which so much has emanated.
Speaker 1: It really laid the groundwork for much of what we
Speaker 1: experience today UH and continue to have to work on.
Speaker 1: And it's also the anniversary of the Beijing Women's Conference
Speaker 1: that took place in UH and that was a u
Speaker 1: n convening of thousands of women from all over the
Speaker 1: world that laid out a platform for action, a blueprint
Speaker 1: against which in many ways we still measure our progress today.
Speaker 1: So let's talk a little bit more about women's suffrage.
Speaker 1: Can you tell us a little bit about Seneca Falls
Speaker 1: and that journey to achieving suffrage in ninety Well, suffrage
Speaker 1: obviously is about the right to vote, and when women
Speaker 1: came together for the Equal Rights Convention in the United
Speaker 1: States that took place in Seneca Falls, hence our name
Speaker 1: Seneca Women all of those years ago, in eighty eight,
Speaker 1: well over a hundred and fifty years ago. They came
Speaker 1: together because there were so many egregious ways in which
Speaker 1: women were not treated with any modicum of equality, and
Speaker 1: they wanted to rectify that. You know, I remember reading
Speaker 1: the diary of a woman called Charlotte Woodarde was very
Speaker 1: young and her life was quite miserable, as it was
Speaker 1: for many women in those times, the meager wages that
Speaker 1: she earned as a glovemaker. There was no right to
Speaker 1: vote for women. Education was hit and miss in terms
Speaker 1: of opportunity. If one found herself in a miserable marriage,
Speaker 1: there was no right to divorce. It was just a
Speaker 1: different time when inequality loomed large. And this young woman
Speaker 1: decided she would make the trip to Seneca Falls. And
Speaker 1: she writes about this great fear and yet the need
Speaker 1: to muster her courage to go, and she said that
Speaker 1: when the sun finally came up, she would see this
Speaker 1: procession of stage coaches and people walking, a procession of
Speaker 1: men and women, a procession on the road to equality.
Speaker 1: And when you think back at the Declaration of Sentiments
Speaker 1: that those brave women and men adopted, one of the
Speaker 1: key grievances they named was not having the right to vote,
Speaker 1: which for many was seen as an absolutely fundamental right
Speaker 1: that would enable so much more to happen in terms
Speaker 1: of women's progress. And there was a big debate about it,
Speaker 1: both in Seneca Falls and later because many questioned the
Speaker 1: right for women to engage in public affairs, and they
Speaker 1: thought that if they got the right to vote, it
Speaker 1: would lead to other kinds of activities that might necessarily
Speaker 1: not be viewed as appropriate for women of the times.
Speaker 1: So it was a moment of stunning historical import and
Speaker 1: I think that speaks to us today, because while the
Speaker 1: world in many ways is very different, we're all still
Speaker 1: on that road to equality. Some of us have made
Speaker 1: greater progress than others, but we're still there. And I
Speaker 1: think we should take that event, both in terms of
Speaker 1: what happened at Seneca Falls, but even more importantly in
Speaker 1: some ways the fact that a hundred years ago women
Speaker 1: in the United States finally got the right to vote,
Speaker 1: and I think it took them seventy years to achieve
Speaker 1: that goal. We always talk about that they didn't travel
Speaker 1: by uber or left. They were traveling by horse and
Speaker 1: buggy trying to really advocate for this, and there were
Speaker 1: severe consequences in that struggle, and so it's so important
Speaker 1: to recognize what it took. They think you made a
Speaker 1: really important point about the courage it took, because I
Speaker 1: think in that itself there are lessons for us. You know,
Speaker 1: the women engaged in all kinds of activities. They had
Speaker 1: petition drives, and I think at times they exceeded a
Speaker 1: two hundred thousand plus. They were engaged in parades, they
Speaker 1: were on soap boxes, they were accused of not being ladylike.
Speaker 1: They went in every kind of public venue they could
Speaker 1: muster to make their case. Susan B. Anthony in fact,
Speaker 1: voted in one of the presidential elections and was fined
Speaker 1: for activity because she was told she didn't have the
Speaker 1: right to vote and so uh. In other instances, women
Speaker 1: were imprisoned for short periods of time. This was something
Speaker 1: that we need to understand that we stand on the
Speaker 1: shoulders of women struggling for this right. And I think
Speaker 1: beyond that, they employed all kinds of tactics. They went
Speaker 1: before the Congress, they used lawsuits. So both in terms
Speaker 1: of their struggle, in terms of the networking that they
Speaker 1: engaged in, the partnerships that they employed, the alliances with
Speaker 1: other organizations, we have a lot to learn also from
Speaker 1: both their courage and all of their visionary and creative
Speaker 1: ways that they went about trying to achieve something that
Speaker 1: matters for each and the one of us to this day,
Speaker 1: thinking about how they how they went to such lengths
Speaker 1: to shift the perspectives of a whole culture, because as
Speaker 1: you said, it was advocating in the legal system, and
Speaker 1: part of that though, was changing mindsets, which we know
Speaker 1: is not easy. And as you said, they had so
Speaker 1: many tactics that they tried to employ through through those networks,
Speaker 1: through those alliances. I was reading. In fact, at one
Speaker 1: point I remember that they used bicycles and they said,
Speaker 1: you know, they were going to gain suffrage on their bicycles,
Speaker 1: because that became a new mode of transportation that these
Speaker 1: women employed. But I think fundamentally, and why you and
Speaker 1: I are so passionate about what they were able to
Speaker 1: do is for what it says to us today and
Speaker 1: how we can uh ensure that we do understand that
Speaker 1: we stand on their shoulders, but that we also have
Speaker 1: to chart greater progress to build on that in this
Speaker 1: twenty one century. We'll be back after this break. Another
Speaker 1: momentous h anniversary this year, as you mentioned, is the
Speaker 1: anniversary of the u N World Conference on Women in Beijing,
Speaker 1: a hundred years ago since women achieved suffrage UH seventy
Speaker 1: five years later, women met from around the world in
Speaker 1: Beijing to talk about women's rights. Can you tell us
Speaker 1: a little bit about that, well, it wasn't conveying that
Speaker 1: had built on three earlier convenings that the United Nations
Speaker 1: had in different parts of the world, and this one,
Speaker 1: I think resonated so significantly because women's rights still were
Speaker 1: not chiseled in international human rights law. And when you
Speaker 1: think about it, one of the pivotal moments in that
Speaker 1: coming together, that gathering of tens of thousands of delegates
Speaker 1: and activists was the speech that the then First Lady
Speaker 1: of the United States made, Hillary Clinton. If there is
Speaker 1: one message that echoes forth from this conference, let it
Speaker 1: be that human rights are women's rights, and women's rights
Speaker 1: are human rights, once and for all. In many ways
Speaker 1: sparked the movement to continue this progress, because when she
Speaker 1: got up and said human rights are women's rights, and
Speaker 1: women's rights are human rights, it really said it. All
Speaker 1: women are human and women's rights are human rights. And
Speaker 1: yet it took all of that time to begin to
Speaker 1: make uh this progress in terms of recognizing that. For example,
Speaker 1: in an earlier convening, one that took place in Nairobi,
Speaker 1: it was African women who put the issue of violence
Speaker 1: against women, which we know today continues to be a
Speaker 1: global scourge manifested in so many ways. They put that
Speaker 1: issue on the agenda in the previous conference, and it
Speaker 1: was finally recognized in Beijing that the issue of violence
Speaker 1: against women was indeed a violation of human rights. And
Speaker 1: among the things that Hillary Clinton said in that speech
Speaker 1: that historic moment was that all of these things that
Speaker 1: were happening to women and continue to be happening, whether
Speaker 1: it's dowry burnings or honor killings or the trafficking of women,
Speaker 1: that these were violations of human rights. And that meeting
Speaker 1: in Beijing twenty five years ago, you know, it wasn't
Speaker 1: that long ago, and so many younger women say to
Speaker 1: me today, you know what was the big deal. Well,
Speaker 1: it was a big deal because we were moving to
Speaker 1: ensure that under the international laws that this would finally
Speaker 1: have its place and be recognized as such. And out
Speaker 1: of it came a lot of progressive changes, including the
Speaker 1: passage of laws around the world in country after country.
Speaker 1: They're not always fully implemented, but laws against violence against
Speaker 1: women that the States had a responsibility to protect their
Speaker 1: citizens women from these terrible violations of their human rights.
Speaker 1: So tell us a little bit about what it was
Speaker 1: like to be there, in Beijing. I mean, those of
Speaker 1: us who remember the moment from Afar and those of
Speaker 1: us who understand the incredible impact that's had would love
Speaker 1: to hear what it was like to be in that
Speaker 1: room that day. Well, it was quite incredible for me
Speaker 1: in a very personal way, because I had been involved
Speaker 1: over many, many months in the planning of the US
Speaker 1: participation in Beijing, and particularly the role of the First Lady.
Speaker 1: You know, I thought back to the women in Seneca
Speaker 1: fall Is because in many ways, Uh, the opposition was saying,
Speaker 1: she shouldn't go to Beijing. It's a conference that's going
Speaker 1: to destroy the family. Others who were very mindful of
Speaker 1: the human rights violations of China, we're saying, well, no,
Speaker 1: she shouldn't go, and she shouldn't reward the Chinese. Well,
Speaker 1: it wasn't a reward for the Chinese. It was really
Speaker 1: all about women's rights at an international conference that happened
Speaker 1: to be located there. And then when she got into
Speaker 1: this litany of the human rights you could just feel
Speaker 1: in the room so many of those delegates, hundreds and hundreds,
Speaker 1: realizing that this woman from the most powerful country in
Speaker 1: the world would take on these causes and that at
Speaker 1: that moment, there was this realization that yes, she is right,
Speaker 1: these were violations of human rights, and there was this
Speaker 1: tremendous crescendo, just this tremendous reaction of people in the
Speaker 1: room of sustained applause. And I remember when we were
Speaker 1: leaving this cavernous conference room, people on all sides were
Speaker 1: applauding and and thanking her. It was one of those
Speaker 1: moments where I personally felt this is history in the making.
Speaker 1: Fast forward to two thousand and nine and your time
Speaker 1: in the State Department, when your position was really created.
Speaker 1: Hillary Clinton becomes Secretary of State and under President Obama
Speaker 1: and Secretary Clinton, they create the first ever position of
Speaker 1: US Ambassador at Large for global women's issues. And I
Speaker 1: think many people would say there would be no better
Speaker 1: candidate and nobody could have done the job better than
Speaker 1: you did do in those four years. So can you
Speaker 1: talk to us a little bit about what it was
Speaker 1: like to represent the United States on behalf of women
Speaker 1: um and what it was like to advocate for women
Speaker 1: in these public sector settings in countries that maybe really
Speaker 1: were a little bit further behind in terms of fundamental
Speaker 1: rights for women. Well, I felt it was an awesome responsibility, obviously,
Speaker 1: and it was fundamentally about our own national security, and
Speaker 1: that's what we had to recognize. Yes, it was about
Speaker 1: doing good. Yes it was about making a difference for women,
Speaker 1: but it was also recognizing that in places where women's
Speaker 1: rights are denied and women are oppressed, those places resort
Speaker 1: to instability, to conflict, to the kinds of problems that fester,
Speaker 1: grow bigger and cause huge issues for the United States.
Speaker 1: It also represented our standing up for our values, and
Speaker 1: that frankly made me so proud that I could represent
Speaker 1: our great country on these issues where we could stand
Speaker 1: tall and say that we understood why these issues of
Speaker 1: women's economic rights, human rights issues having to deal with
Speaker 1: peace and security, we're so fundamental to our own concerns
Speaker 1: and represented so snificantly our own values. So it was
Speaker 1: a It was an awesome responsibility. I felt keenly. Working
Speaker 1: with my colleagues in government especially provided another great sense
Speaker 1: of we're all in this together, and this wasn't to
Speaker 1: be just one office that focused on nice initiatives. That
Speaker 1: was a good thing, but what I was told was
Speaker 1: you are to be about integrating these issues, mainstreaming these
Speaker 1: issues across the work of our State Department, and then
Speaker 1: to work around the world meeting with women, uh and
Speaker 1: realizing there is far more that we have in common.
Speaker 1: Despite our cultural differences, potential religious differences, ethnic differences, we
Speaker 1: have far more in common. And the woman in the
Speaker 1: village understands that she should not be violated, she should
Speaker 1: be able to participate in her society. Well, that really
Speaker 1: reminds me of a story that Justice Sandra Day O'Connor
Speaker 1: told me another first, the first woman on the U. S.
Speaker 1: Supreme Court. You know, she had talked about the fact
Speaker 1: that during the Arab Spring that women were really fully
Speaker 1: participating into here square and we're really part of that
Speaker 1: whole conversation. But what she had said, which I thought
Speaker 1: was extremely interesting, was that if women were not part
Speaker 1: of designing the constitution, that would be another hundred years lost.
Speaker 1: And so this idea of women's participation in government, in
Speaker 1: leadership incorporations is really essential. We'll be back after this break.
Speaker 1: Can you talk to us a little bit about the
Speaker 1: private sector and the role that the private sector plays
Speaker 1: in all this. Well, I think the private sector has
Speaker 1: an extremely important role to play, and it's a major
Speaker 1: principle of our effort in writing fast Forward, which is
Speaker 1: clearly that one of the ways we can accelerate progress
Speaker 1: for women and girls at home and around the world
Speaker 1: is to come together and in large measure focus on
Speaker 1: women and men in businesses and the roles that they
Speaker 1: can play, no matter at what level they are. But
Speaker 1: when you think about what we know today, which is
Speaker 1: we can't grow economies without the full participation of women
Speaker 1: in the economies of their countries, and yet in many
Speaker 1: places that's still very problematic. We know, for example, that
Speaker 1: women entrepreneurs are a vital force in growing economies, and
Speaker 1: yet women entrepreneurs face so many constraints. And one of
Speaker 1: the things I worked on in government was how do
Speaker 1: we address those hurdles, those obstacles to their training, to
Speaker 1: access to capital, which is a huge shortfall today around
Speaker 1: the world, and in our own country getting the credit
Speaker 1: that they need, access to markets. Uh. So much that
Speaker 1: can make a difference is how business is source from
Speaker 1: women business owners, and we see that in our own
Speaker 1: country and globally. So we talk about and fast forward,
Speaker 1: how we're at this moment where we have women in
Speaker 1: positions of power like never before in history. We have
Speaker 1: the evidence base case which you've talked about, and we
Speaker 1: now have technology and that combination could be the great
Speaker 1: accelerator that we're all waiting for. Recently, the Web came
Speaker 1: out with its most recent report and said it would
Speaker 1: take another two years was it to reach equality. So
Speaker 1: in this moment, what can we do to leverage technology
Speaker 1: to accelerate Well, we know, for example, that technology is
Speaker 1: an important tool for women if development agencies focus a
Speaker 1: lot today on the role that technology can play and
Speaker 1: educating on health, in providing fundamental principles of education, in
Speaker 1: helping women know where their markets are in the developing
Speaker 1: world on a given day instead of walking to know
Speaker 1: and in a very significant way, banking for the first
Speaker 1: time ever, having access to financial resources in terms of
Speaker 1: being able to make transactions or being able to save
Speaker 1: your money safely through a simple mobile device. These are
Speaker 1: transformative issues of significance and at Seneca Women, you and
Speaker 1: I have talked about this many times that we adapt
Speaker 1: taking the principles of fast forward, putting them into a
Speaker 1: daily app where anyone can access that app any place
Speaker 1: and get the kind of tools they need for their
Speaker 1: own personal betterment, but also in ways to connect on
Speaker 1: the important issues of our times. For us at Seneca.
Speaker 1: We are so excited that we've been able to over
Speaker 1: the last few years develop the Seneca Women app and
Speaker 1: now launch the Seneca Women Podcast network because we're at
Speaker 1: this unique moment where technology could help us accelerate. We
Speaker 1: don't want to have to wait another hundred years to
Speaker 1: make progress, and it shouldn't take us as long as
Speaker 1: it has taken us to date. So, Milan, we've had
Speaker 1: many firsts. You are one of the firsts, and you've
Speaker 1: worked with really many of the first women leaders of
Speaker 1: different countries, different industries. Obviously you've worked very closely with
Speaker 1: Hillary Clinton. But why haven't we cracked that final glass ceiling. Well,
Speaker 1: there's just tremendous opposition that continues resistance, and a lot
Speaker 1: of it is based on these norms. It's based on mindsets,
Speaker 1: it's based on bias, whether it's conscious bias or unconscious bias.
Speaker 1: It's very much a reality and we have to keep
Speaker 1: chipping away, educating, working to demonstrate, and coming up with
Speaker 1: ways to really show why this change needs to come.
Speaker 1: Men are a very big part of the solution we need.
Speaker 1: As the women who journey to Seneca Falls had the
Speaker 1: good men at their side, we need to continue to
Speaker 1: have men help us lead the way. And in Fast
Speaker 1: Forward we talk about men in different ways who have
Speaker 1: used their leadership and their power to recognize the importance
Speaker 1: of these issues and most importantly, to do something about it,
Speaker 1: to play a leadership role. Can you tell us a
Speaker 1: little bit more about what you've seen in terms of
Speaker 1: the power women's networks. Back when the women were struggling
Speaker 1: over that hundred years effort um but struggling for women's
Speaker 1: rights and then especially in the effort to gain the
Speaker 1: right to vote for women, one of the things that
Speaker 1: is very striking was how those pioneering women began to
Speaker 1: forge networks with other women. You know, I think in
Speaker 1: so many places in the world there are women's organizations,
Speaker 1: self help group which is the only way women can
Speaker 1: get ahead because they've got so many uh efforts that
Speaker 1: constrain them uh and work against them. But it's been
Speaker 1: that consolidation of or convergence of coming together and really
Speaker 1: working in a way that can bring about results. And
Speaker 1: I think that lesson is as strong for today as
Speaker 1: it was for the suffragettes, as it continues to be
Speaker 1: in so many places that when we come together networks
Speaker 1: of women need to be supported, They need to be enhanced,
Speaker 1: They need to be able to grow, They need to
Speaker 1: be validated, whether it's through enhancing their voices through technology,
Speaker 1: or whether it's constantly saying these women are making a difference.
Speaker 1: This work is important. This matters for all of us, though.
Speaker 1: Those voices need to be enhanced, you know. And and
Speaker 1: it's in that context that we're launching the Seneca Women
Speaker 1: Podcast Network, because it's not just about our voices or
Speaker 1: the voices of women who are household names, but it
Speaker 1: can be a tool for those, um we often don't
Speaker 1: hear about who are actually doing the heavy lifting, and
Speaker 1: so we hope that the podcast network will be that
Speaker 1: kind of tool to women who are the real change makers. Well. Look,
Speaker 1: and we're both so excited to be partnering with PENG
Speaker 1: on this effort because we know that it requires both
Speaker 1: the public sector and the private sector to make progress.
Speaker 1: And frankly, an organization like PING who has the reach
Speaker 1: and the ability to understand that they have the obligation
Speaker 1: to be both a force for good and a force
Speaker 1: for growth is really important. So in this moment, what
Speaker 1: can we each do? In writing Fast Forward, we really
Speaker 1: wanted to issue a clarion call to women everywhere and
Speaker 1: to men who who care deeply about these issues and
Speaker 1: understand why they're critical. Uh, that we each can be
Speaker 1: a partner in accelerating progress for women and girls. And
Speaker 1: our thesis is as true today as it was a
Speaker 1: few years ago when we sat down to write the book,
Speaker 1: which is to aknowledge and understand each of us has power.
Speaker 1: It doesn't have to be the power of a world leader,
Speaker 1: the power of a CEO. Uh. It is the power
Speaker 1: of a student on a campus. It is the power
Speaker 1: of an entry level person in a company. It is
Speaker 1: the power of a government worker even at a mid
Speaker 1: career level. We each have power no matter where we
Speaker 1: find ourselves. So when we acknowledge and know our power
Speaker 1: and we find our purpose whatever it is, but hopefully
Speaker 1: it's to accelerate progress for women and girls and connect
Speaker 1: with others, we can indeed make a difference. UH. So
Speaker 1: it is about power, purpose and connection. It is about
Speaker 1: each of us, and it is about the fact that
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter who you are or what your job is,
Speaker 1: you can indeed fast forward progress for women and girls everywhere. Well,
Speaker 1: and thank you so much. It has been incredible to
Speaker 1: hear your experience about what's happening for women around the
Speaker 1: world and what we can do to accelerate in well.
Speaker 1: It's always delightful and particularly to be here with you,
Speaker 1: Kim and engage in this conversation. You're listening to Seneca
Speaker 1: Women Conversations on Power and Purpose, brought to you by
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Speaker 1: For more information on Seneca Women, follow us on social media,
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Speaker 1: a great day, m