1 00:00:01,080 --> 00:00:04,360 Speaker 1: Happy Friday. Everybody. Take a look. We got everybody in 2 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:06,520 Speaker 1: the house. Nice to see you guys. 3 00:00:08,200 --> 00:00:11,120 Speaker 2: Wow, nice to see right. Oh well, thank you. 4 00:00:11,200 --> 00:00:11,239 Speaker 3: No. 5 00:00:11,360 --> 00:00:13,319 Speaker 2: I appreciate we had to move some things around, but 6 00:00:13,560 --> 00:00:14,560 Speaker 2: definitely had to be here. 7 00:00:17,440 --> 00:00:17,560 Speaker 3: Now. 8 00:00:17,760 --> 00:00:19,720 Speaker 2: I just have a very rigid I ariginly have a 9 00:00:19,760 --> 00:00:22,599 Speaker 2: really very rigid schedule, and as you guys know, with 10 00:00:22,640 --> 00:00:25,000 Speaker 2: my sleep sleep schedule and other things, I'm very reluctant 11 00:00:25,040 --> 00:00:27,880 Speaker 2: to move things around. But sometimes that's what that's what things, 12 00:00:28,200 --> 00:00:29,600 Speaker 2: that's what things get called for here. 13 00:00:30,200 --> 00:00:33,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, well there's a lot of things going on, uh 14 00:00:33,960 --> 00:00:37,199 Speaker 1: what many market moves that are kind of disturbing, and 15 00:00:37,280 --> 00:00:39,319 Speaker 1: China's announcing new tariffs, and so we'll take a look 16 00:00:39,320 --> 00:00:43,000 Speaker 1: at that stuff. We've got big Supreme Court, unanimous Supreme 17 00:00:43,040 --> 00:00:46,280 Speaker 1: Court decision last Friday. We actually talked to the lawyer 18 00:00:46,440 --> 00:00:51,080 Speaker 1: for Kilmar Abario Garcia. He is the immigrant who was 19 00:00:51,159 --> 00:00:55,360 Speaker 1: wrongfully the administration even admitted wrongfully sent to that person 20 00:00:55,360 --> 00:00:57,200 Speaker 1: at El Salvador. The question was whether or not they 21 00:00:57,200 --> 00:00:59,200 Speaker 1: would have to do anything to come back. In the 22 00:00:59,240 --> 00:01:02,400 Speaker 1: Supreme Court, in a nine to o decision, says you 23 00:01:02,480 --> 00:01:05,600 Speaker 1: have to in this word is key facilitate his return 24 00:01:06,200 --> 00:01:08,720 Speaker 1: so really significant there. We're also getting a look at 25 00:01:08,760 --> 00:01:13,959 Speaker 1: the government's quote unquote case against Mockmood Khalil, which is 26 00:01:14,080 --> 00:01:16,920 Speaker 1: revealing in the many things it doesn't say and doesn't argue. 27 00:01:16,959 --> 00:01:18,760 Speaker 1: So we'll take a look at that, and then SAGERA 28 00:01:18,760 --> 00:01:22,520 Speaker 1: in particular, very very interested in this Dave Smith Douglas 29 00:01:22,600 --> 00:01:24,560 Speaker 1: Murray debate on Joe Rogan. You want to give a 30 00:01:24,600 --> 00:01:25,680 Speaker 1: little previous Sager. 31 00:01:25,680 --> 00:01:28,360 Speaker 2: I'm I'm heated, you know, I, as I said, I've 32 00:01:28,360 --> 00:01:30,880 Speaker 2: got my schedule, you know, I'm at the gym ready 33 00:01:30,920 --> 00:01:33,960 Speaker 2: for my cardio, and so I see this thing flash 34 00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:37,160 Speaker 2: on my Spotify. As you know, Douglas Murray can't really 35 00:01:37,200 --> 00:01:39,760 Speaker 2: I don't really like the guy, but I'll decide it 36 00:01:39,880 --> 00:01:43,959 Speaker 2: within the first ten minutes. I'm I'm so, I'm texting, Dave, 37 00:01:44,560 --> 00:01:48,600 Speaker 2: I'm tweeting. I'm fury. My entire workout has been screwed 38 00:01:48,680 --> 00:01:51,200 Speaker 2: up and I'm enraged. I had to sit there and 39 00:01:51,280 --> 00:01:54,840 Speaker 2: just work out. Oh I did afterwards, Yeah, afterwards, because 40 00:01:54,840 --> 00:01:58,440 Speaker 2: my blood was so it was so hot over this 41 00:01:58,640 --> 00:02:01,760 Speaker 2: entire thing. It was ever characteristic. And have been so 42 00:02:01,840 --> 00:02:04,280 Speaker 2: reluctant to enter this so called woke right debate because 43 00:02:04,280 --> 00:02:06,920 Speaker 2: I find it so tedious and annoying. Emily, I'm sure 44 00:02:06,960 --> 00:02:10,160 Speaker 2: you find it similarly, But this is the best example 45 00:02:10,200 --> 00:02:13,880 Speaker 2: to me of somebody who is, you know, double standards 46 00:02:14,680 --> 00:02:18,480 Speaker 2: all of the tropes of actual wokeism, like in terms 47 00:02:18,520 --> 00:02:23,880 Speaker 2: of lived experience and ad hominem attacks and expert you know, 48 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:27,000 Speaker 2: trolling or whatever, when you yourself are not even and experts. 49 00:02:27,040 --> 00:02:29,480 Speaker 2: And we'll get to it, but yeah, I'm excited about it. 50 00:02:29,720 --> 00:02:31,280 Speaker 1: I guess I'm just like, I don't know how it's 51 00:02:31,320 --> 00:02:33,320 Speaker 1: even a debate at this point about the quote unquote 52 00:02:33,320 --> 00:02:36,080 Speaker 1: woke right, Like, how is that even a debate? I mean, 53 00:02:36,120 --> 00:02:39,320 Speaker 1: and they've crazy further than the craziest wokesters could have 54 00:02:39,320 --> 00:02:42,560 Speaker 1: ever imagined with regard to like using the apparatus of 55 00:02:42,600 --> 00:02:43,959 Speaker 1: the state to achieve their goals. 56 00:02:44,280 --> 00:02:46,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, but the thing is, Crystal is, as you understand it, 57 00:02:46,520 --> 00:02:48,919 Speaker 2: the people who are pushing it, like Douglas are the woke, right. 58 00:02:48,960 --> 00:02:50,919 Speaker 2: The crazy thing is they're the ones who coined the 59 00:02:51,040 --> 00:02:54,800 Speaker 2: term for people who are against or not even against 60 00:02:54,919 --> 00:02:57,320 Speaker 2: who want They're the ones who coined the term for 61 00:02:57,360 --> 00:02:59,720 Speaker 2: people who are like, hey, like maybe we can talk 62 00:02:59,720 --> 00:03:04,640 Speaker 2: about Israel or Ukraine immigration immigrant. I don't understand if 63 00:03:04,840 --> 00:03:07,240 Speaker 2: they are the ones who created it, they're like and 64 00:03:07,280 --> 00:03:10,079 Speaker 2: that's that's actually part of what makes it so maddening. 65 00:03:10,200 --> 00:03:12,680 Speaker 2: And like I said, I don't generally engage with like 66 00:03:12,760 --> 00:03:15,960 Speaker 2: low IQ individuals like James Lindsay, but you know, just 67 00:03:16,000 --> 00:03:18,720 Speaker 2: like just the other day, just yesterday he tweeted and 68 00:03:18,720 --> 00:03:21,239 Speaker 2: he was like, gosh, they're calling Douglas Murray and neo 69 00:03:21,320 --> 00:03:23,440 Speaker 2: Khon And I'm just like, am I the only person 70 00:03:23,440 --> 00:03:25,840 Speaker 2: who reads books or like knows anything anymore? Because he 71 00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:28,840 Speaker 2: wrote a book called neo Conservatism Why we need It? 72 00:03:28,919 --> 00:03:33,320 Speaker 2: And it's like in Europe, right Ryan, Like you know, 73 00:03:33,720 --> 00:03:38,640 Speaker 2: for you've been in this game while what you know, 74 00:03:38,840 --> 00:03:41,520 Speaker 2: if someone was like, hey, Douglas Murray's neo khon, you'd 75 00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:45,080 Speaker 2: be like, yeah, we know, bro. She told us things. 76 00:03:45,320 --> 00:03:49,520 Speaker 2: He told us that I read that book Incer Soccer. 77 00:03:49,560 --> 00:03:51,920 Speaker 1: You're you're very animated this morning. Your mic is still 78 00:03:51,920 --> 00:03:53,120 Speaker 1: like peaking a little association. 79 00:03:53,280 --> 00:03:55,320 Speaker 2: I'm sorry, Okay, all right, I'll turn it down. 80 00:03:57,880 --> 00:04:00,600 Speaker 4: He needs like a Douglas Murray James Lynn a button 81 00:04:00,640 --> 00:04:03,400 Speaker 4: on his microphone when he gets mad, he hits. 82 00:04:03,200 --> 00:04:06,720 Speaker 1: That great and then we go to the proper setting to 83 00:04:07,040 --> 00:04:10,320 Speaker 1: bring back our tones. Okay, all right, well, with all 84 00:04:10,360 --> 00:04:12,040 Speaker 1: that's being said, let's get to the markets. I'm just 85 00:04:12,040 --> 00:04:15,520 Speaker 1: gonna pull up the CNBC main page now so we 86 00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:18,040 Speaker 1: can see it's nine to fifteen am. Market to open 87 00:04:18,120 --> 00:04:20,719 Speaker 1: in fifteen minutes. We can take a look at the futures. 88 00:04:20,960 --> 00:04:23,920 Speaker 1: So also this headline has been important. Jamie Diamond says 89 00:04:23,920 --> 00:04:26,159 Speaker 1: he expects S and P five hundred earnings estimates to 90 00:04:26,240 --> 00:04:28,960 Speaker 1: fall as companies pull guidance. And apparently Jamie diamond like 91 00:04:29,000 --> 00:04:30,960 Speaker 1: basically runs the country since he's the one that Trump 92 00:04:31,040 --> 00:04:35,360 Speaker 1: allegedly listened to about the potential for the potential for 93 00:04:35,400 --> 00:04:37,800 Speaker 1: a recession. You can see here up at the top though, 94 00:04:38,200 --> 00:04:43,200 Speaker 1: futures basically flat at this point. But saga, let me 95 00:04:43,320 --> 00:04:44,719 Speaker 1: let me throw it to you a little bit here 96 00:04:44,800 --> 00:04:48,760 Speaker 1: for what we saw yesterday, you know, originally obviously Trump 97 00:04:48,760 --> 00:04:51,440 Speaker 1: makes his announcement. Okay, we're keeping the terrace on China. 98 00:04:51,720 --> 00:04:54,000 Speaker 1: What are they now? One hundred and forty five percent? Yes, 99 00:04:54,200 --> 00:04:57,200 Speaker 1: but we're rolling back other terriffs to quote unquote just 100 00:04:57,279 --> 00:05:00,000 Speaker 1: ten percent except for Canada and Mexico, which you're staying 101 00:05:00,120 --> 00:05:03,240 Speaker 1: with whatever they were before. Markets get really excited. There's 102 00:05:03,279 --> 00:05:05,520 Speaker 1: a huge gain one of the largest single day gains 103 00:05:05,560 --> 00:05:08,720 Speaker 1: in history, and then the next day looked very different, 104 00:05:08,800 --> 00:05:10,840 Speaker 1: so a lot of those gains rolled back, and then 105 00:05:11,000 --> 00:05:14,960 Speaker 1: overnight we were seeing some really troubling indications in terms 106 00:05:15,000 --> 00:05:17,760 Speaker 1: of bonds, in terms of basically the world being like, 107 00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:20,240 Speaker 1: you know, I don't know if the US economy is 108 00:05:20,279 --> 00:05:22,159 Speaker 1: really the place where we want to put our money 109 00:05:22,279 --> 00:05:24,880 Speaker 1: with any regards. So Sager, why don't you go ahead 110 00:05:24,880 --> 00:05:25,719 Speaker 1: and speak to a little bit of that. 111 00:05:26,240 --> 00:05:28,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, sure, is my mic. Ok Now, I'm talking a 112 00:05:28,480 --> 00:05:30,840 Speaker 2: little biteah about better. Okay, all right, sorry sales guy. 113 00:05:30,920 --> 00:05:33,000 Speaker 2: Apologize everyone. I'm still a boomer in terms of my 114 00:05:33,040 --> 00:05:36,640 Speaker 2: home setup. Yeah, the dollar, there's been some major selloff 115 00:05:36,680 --> 00:05:39,520 Speaker 2: in the dollars. Actually, one of the most important things 116 00:05:39,520 --> 00:05:42,760 Speaker 2: that's happening, aside to the bond market, the dollars at 117 00:05:42,800 --> 00:05:46,080 Speaker 2: one of its lowest levels for international currencies, including in 118 00:05:46,120 --> 00:05:50,000 Speaker 2: the European Union. This is not necessarily like de dollarization, 119 00:05:50,160 --> 00:05:52,279 Speaker 2: but it is generally like a loss of confidence and 120 00:05:52,640 --> 00:05:55,440 Speaker 2: reserve currency. I don't want to overstate the case, but 121 00:05:55,560 --> 00:05:58,600 Speaker 2: obviously with trade instability, that's going to be a big 122 00:05:58,640 --> 00:06:01,480 Speaker 2: part of it. The bond market continues to be a 123 00:06:01,520 --> 00:06:04,159 Speaker 2: big problem and The funny thing is it wouldn't be 124 00:06:04,279 --> 00:06:07,960 Speaker 2: as much of a problem if the administration had not 125 00:06:08,120 --> 00:06:12,400 Speaker 2: said from day one that their stated goal was too 126 00:06:12,560 --> 00:06:16,800 Speaker 2: lower the yield on the ten years, specifically to try 127 00:06:16,800 --> 00:06:20,080 Speaker 2: and reduce the amount of debt servicing that would require 128 00:06:20,120 --> 00:06:22,920 Speaker 2: from the federal government. And so the fact that the 129 00:06:22,960 --> 00:06:25,880 Speaker 2: bonds have spiked in terms of the yield, and actually 130 00:06:25,920 --> 00:06:29,279 Speaker 2: even the ninety day reduction did not have any general 131 00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:34,120 Speaker 2: reaction on the price basically means that the administrations the 132 00:06:34,160 --> 00:06:37,960 Speaker 2: administration strategy is failing on all fronts. From the bond strategy, 133 00:06:38,320 --> 00:06:41,240 Speaker 2: we also have like this attempt to try and what 134 00:06:41,320 --> 00:06:44,320 Speaker 2: is it. The attempt is to try and isolate China 135 00:06:44,640 --> 00:06:46,320 Speaker 2: with the rest of the world. So not only do 136 00:06:46,360 --> 00:06:48,520 Speaker 2: we still continue to have the ten percent tariff, but 137 00:06:48,520 --> 00:06:51,880 Speaker 2: we're actually starting to see some interesting deals getting cut, right, 138 00:06:51,960 --> 00:06:54,120 Speaker 2: So you could see there that you brought it back 139 00:06:54,160 --> 00:06:56,440 Speaker 2: about the long term yields. But I actually think one 140 00:06:56,480 --> 00:06:59,560 Speaker 2: of the more interesting stories is about this European Union 141 00:06:59,680 --> 00:07:02,280 Speaker 2: side deal that's been cut with China. So actually the 142 00:07:02,320 --> 00:07:05,559 Speaker 2: last twenty four hours has been very clarifying for US markets, 143 00:07:05,600 --> 00:07:07,560 Speaker 2: and that's why I don't really think it's a surprised 144 00:07:07,600 --> 00:07:11,840 Speaker 2: that we saw such a significant reduction overall yesterday. And yeah, 145 00:07:11,840 --> 00:07:13,480 Speaker 2: as you said, it's nine to fifteen here on the 146 00:07:13,520 --> 00:07:16,000 Speaker 2: East coast. We have a general decent idea of where 147 00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:17,880 Speaker 2: things are, and the S and P basically is flat 148 00:07:17,960 --> 00:07:21,200 Speaker 2: to yesterday. So you know, the total bump quote unquote 149 00:07:21,200 --> 00:07:24,000 Speaker 2: from the ninety day pause, it's like maybe four to 150 00:07:24,120 --> 00:07:26,080 Speaker 2: five percent. I mean, don't forget, we're still almost what 151 00:07:26,120 --> 00:07:28,880 Speaker 2: fifteen seventeen percent down from the all time high on 152 00:07:28,960 --> 00:07:32,160 Speaker 2: the SP five hundred and the day. There's still some Yeah, 153 00:07:32,200 --> 00:07:35,280 Speaker 2: there are the deals, right, part of the deal Ryan. 154 00:07:35,440 --> 00:07:38,520 Speaker 1: One of the things this morning, so China announced they're 155 00:07:38,560 --> 00:07:41,360 Speaker 1: lifting tariffs to I think one hundred and twenty five percent. 156 00:07:41,640 --> 00:07:43,440 Speaker 1: But they also said, and I think this is part 157 00:07:43,480 --> 00:07:46,440 Speaker 1: of why futures are basically flat up a little bit. 158 00:07:46,720 --> 00:07:48,960 Speaker 1: They also were like, that's all we're doing, like whatever 159 00:07:49,320 --> 00:07:51,680 Speaker 1: Trump does, like we're just staying here. We're not doing 160 00:07:51,680 --> 00:07:54,160 Speaker 1: this whole tip for tat thing. And so I don't know, 161 00:07:54,200 --> 00:07:56,200 Speaker 1: I guess that's giving people comfort of like, well, I 162 00:07:56,200 --> 00:07:58,120 Speaker 1: guess it's not going to get worse than it already is. 163 00:07:58,200 --> 00:08:01,880 Speaker 1: But I also saw I think Wisenthal was tweeting that 164 00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:07,600 Speaker 1: the the like discount store five and below canceled from China. 165 00:08:08,320 --> 00:08:12,120 Speaker 1: Five below, Yeah, five below, you can't below. It's I 166 00:08:12,160 --> 00:08:13,920 Speaker 1: have to say, they have some kind of cool stuff 167 00:08:13,920 --> 00:08:14,280 Speaker 1: in there. 168 00:08:14,400 --> 00:08:17,440 Speaker 2: Anyways, you ever need a gift, like a white elephant 169 00:08:17,480 --> 00:08:19,480 Speaker 2: gift or something, It's a great place to go. I've 170 00:08:19,480 --> 00:08:21,120 Speaker 2: bought a lot of stupid ship from there before. 171 00:08:21,320 --> 00:08:21,640 Speaker 5: Yeah. 172 00:08:21,680 --> 00:08:23,680 Speaker 1: But anyway, I'd love for you to talk a little 173 00:08:23,680 --> 00:08:28,120 Speaker 1: bit about the China dynamics here, because, uh, I feel 174 00:08:28,120 --> 00:08:31,440 Speaker 1: like there's a lot of overconfidence among the leadership of 175 00:08:31,480 --> 00:08:33,960 Speaker 1: this country that we're positioned to win a trade war 176 00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:36,480 Speaker 1: with China whilst also fighting trade wars apparently with the 177 00:08:36,520 --> 00:08:37,160 Speaker 1: rest of the world. 178 00:08:38,600 --> 00:08:43,320 Speaker 6: I don't know where that confidence comes from. China has basically, 179 00:08:43,920 --> 00:08:46,040 Speaker 6: you know, all of the cars as Trump as Trump 180 00:08:46,120 --> 00:08:47,840 Speaker 6: likes to put it, like, they have every they have. 181 00:08:48,080 --> 00:08:51,800 Speaker 6: They have the treasuries, they have the manufacturing capacity, they 182 00:08:51,840 --> 00:08:56,800 Speaker 6: have the supply chains. We buy things from them, like 183 00:08:56,840 --> 00:09:03,160 Speaker 6: that's that's our entire leverage. And if they can find audiences, 184 00:09:03,400 --> 00:09:08,280 Speaker 6: consumer bases for that for that manufacturing capacity, then we're screwed. 185 00:09:08,320 --> 00:09:11,960 Speaker 6: And so they're they're already pivoting domestically they have a 186 00:09:11,960 --> 00:09:15,720 Speaker 6: billion plus people. They're trying to grow their domestic consumer base. 187 00:09:16,080 --> 00:09:18,959 Speaker 6: They're you know, there's the European Union, There's there's Southeast 188 00:09:18,960 --> 00:09:22,200 Speaker 6: and South Asia. You know they have uh, they have 189 00:09:22,400 --> 00:09:25,120 Speaker 6: they have political problems with all of these different entities 190 00:09:25,120 --> 00:09:30,000 Speaker 6: of various ranges, but nothing like what they have all es. 191 00:09:30,040 --> 00:09:33,120 Speaker 6: So it makes it makes their differences with Southeast Asia, 192 00:09:33,160 --> 00:09:35,520 Speaker 6: you know, pale in comparison to US. And just so 193 00:09:35,559 --> 00:09:39,840 Speaker 6: people understand the the profound implications of these of these 194 00:09:39,920 --> 00:09:43,120 Speaker 6: yield numbers going up. I remember when I was taking 195 00:09:43,120 --> 00:09:45,480 Speaker 6: the Series seven, like twenty five years ago or whatever, 196 00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:47,600 Speaker 6: one of the you know, the on the bond side. 197 00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:49,120 Speaker 1: How did you take the Series seven? 198 00:09:49,400 --> 00:09:50,400 Speaker 2: I was a broker. 199 00:09:52,080 --> 00:09:57,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, when have you looked like eight lifetimes right out 200 00:09:58,160 --> 00:10:01,160 Speaker 1: right out of college, you have two thousand, two thousand, 201 00:10:01,200 --> 00:10:01,880 Speaker 1: two thousand and one. 202 00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:04,360 Speaker 2: So the dot com crash got you out of the business, 203 00:10:04,400 --> 00:10:04,800 Speaker 2: got it? 204 00:10:05,120 --> 00:10:07,360 Speaker 6: I was Yeah, I was there while it happened. Basically, 205 00:10:07,559 --> 00:10:09,839 Speaker 6: it was actually I got there a little bit after. 206 00:10:10,080 --> 00:10:11,560 Speaker 2: Not that's wild. 207 00:10:11,840 --> 00:10:14,959 Speaker 6: That's my first article ever. Yeah, my first article ever 208 00:10:15,040 --> 00:10:16,760 Speaker 6: was an expose a of the place where I worked 209 00:10:18,360 --> 00:10:22,080 Speaker 6: actually hire this man, which was a It was a 210 00:10:22,120 --> 00:10:24,480 Speaker 6: mobbed up shop and they're they're like, uh, they're going 211 00:10:24,520 --> 00:10:26,000 Speaker 6: to kill you for this. I was like, no, they're 212 00:10:26,040 --> 00:10:27,560 Speaker 6: not going to kill me, and they didn't kill me. 213 00:10:28,400 --> 00:10:30,520 Speaker 6: But on the series seven they think this is a 214 00:10:30,600 --> 00:10:34,800 Speaker 6: key thing that there's a seesaw effect with bond prices 215 00:10:35,520 --> 00:10:39,080 Speaker 6: and interest rates. When bond prices go up, interest rates 216 00:10:39,080 --> 00:10:42,200 Speaker 6: go down. When bond prices go down, interest rates go 217 00:10:42,320 --> 00:10:45,679 Speaker 6: up because when you need to entice people with a 218 00:10:45,760 --> 00:10:48,640 Speaker 6: higher interest rate to get them in, and so it's 219 00:10:48,679 --> 00:10:52,920 Speaker 6: supply and demand. When there's more demand for a bond, 220 00:10:53,280 --> 00:10:56,320 Speaker 6: the price of it goes up, and so when people 221 00:10:56,360 --> 00:11:00,559 Speaker 6: sell stocks, they move money. This is the orthodox. When 222 00:11:00,559 --> 00:11:05,120 Speaker 6: people sell stocks, they move money into bonds. Because there's 223 00:11:05,160 --> 00:11:07,760 Speaker 6: now more people trying to buy bonds, the price comes 224 00:11:07,840 --> 00:11:11,240 Speaker 6: up and the interest rate goes down. And that was 225 00:11:11,280 --> 00:11:14,480 Speaker 6: what the Trump administration was counting on, that if you 226 00:11:14,520 --> 00:11:17,880 Speaker 6: tank the stock market, you drive up the price of bonds, 227 00:11:17,880 --> 00:11:20,560 Speaker 6: and then you reduce the interest rate, and then boom, 228 00:11:20,679 --> 00:11:23,240 Speaker 6: we can when we roll over all of our debt our, 229 00:11:23,280 --> 00:11:26,400 Speaker 6: debt payments are going to go down. But something broke. 230 00:11:27,320 --> 00:11:30,240 Speaker 6: The orthodoxy is not working. People sold out of the 231 00:11:30,280 --> 00:11:33,839 Speaker 6: market and they're going somewhere else. They're also selling their 232 00:11:33,840 --> 00:11:36,760 Speaker 6: bonds Japan's as. 233 00:11:36,160 --> 00:11:38,040 Speaker 1: A lot of it is into gold. By the way, 234 00:11:38,280 --> 00:11:41,440 Speaker 1: gold prices are going up and up, So I mean 235 00:11:41,559 --> 00:11:41,920 Speaker 1: there's a. 236 00:11:41,840 --> 00:11:44,080 Speaker 6: Lot going on there looking for equities around the world too, 237 00:11:45,280 --> 00:11:47,960 Speaker 6: somewhere other than the US that they can so we 238 00:11:48,160 --> 00:11:49,520 Speaker 6: are screwed. 239 00:11:49,840 --> 00:11:50,040 Speaker 5: Well. 240 00:11:50,080 --> 00:11:52,920 Speaker 4: So, I mean throughout the week I have been, I've 241 00:11:52,920 --> 00:11:54,760 Speaker 4: probably had a different take from you guys, and that 242 00:11:54,840 --> 00:11:57,360 Speaker 4: I've like, this stuff is so hard to predict it 243 00:11:57,400 --> 00:11:59,440 Speaker 4: to the point that Ryan just made it's kind of 244 00:11:59,440 --> 00:12:02,840 Speaker 4: like jury's all out. And I think Sager just said 245 00:12:02,880 --> 00:12:05,840 Speaker 4: the last twenty four hours have been clarifying. That is, 246 00:12:06,120 --> 00:12:08,960 Speaker 4: I mean, what we're starting to see is maybe this 247 00:12:09,040 --> 00:12:12,360 Speaker 4: isn't a surprise, but the Trump administration said this is 248 00:12:12,360 --> 00:12:14,680 Speaker 4: going to be a bet. We're gonna as we do 249 00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:17,400 Speaker 4: this ninety day pause, we're going to just jack up 250 00:12:17,400 --> 00:12:20,000 Speaker 4: the China tariffs. And this is going to force countries 251 00:12:20,040 --> 00:12:23,720 Speaker 4: and Wisenthal pointed this out, like Cambodia and Vietnam to 252 00:12:23,880 --> 00:12:27,600 Speaker 4: choose finally, between the United States and China. Nobody can 253 00:12:27,600 --> 00:12:29,480 Speaker 4: have it both ways anymore, and so this is going 254 00:12:29,520 --> 00:12:31,839 Speaker 4: to bring a rash of investment back into the US 255 00:12:32,559 --> 00:12:34,880 Speaker 4: and it's going to be great. Everyone's going to be happy. 256 00:12:35,080 --> 00:12:38,320 Speaker 4: And I do think there's just been a lack of 257 00:12:38,920 --> 00:12:41,840 Speaker 4: evidence of any of that happening. You know, it's not 258 00:12:41,960 --> 00:12:44,960 Speaker 4: like that's not shock, you're controversial, but they are not 259 00:12:45,080 --> 00:12:47,560 Speaker 4: able to point to very many examples. And this is 260 00:12:47,559 --> 00:12:49,680 Speaker 4: something we saw this in a CNN Wasn't this a 261 00:12:49,679 --> 00:12:53,880 Speaker 4: CNN panel last night, where like actually pointing to examples 262 00:12:53,920 --> 00:12:57,000 Speaker 4: of how this has panned out over the last week, 263 00:12:57,080 --> 00:12:59,800 Speaker 4: like investments that have actually come into the United States, 264 00:13:00,160 --> 00:13:04,480 Speaker 4: deals with those seventy five countries that have actually been struck. Listen, 265 00:13:04,520 --> 00:13:07,560 Speaker 4: I'm still open to hearing great deals are coming through 266 00:13:07,559 --> 00:13:09,760 Speaker 4: with these countries because we do have the leverage over 267 00:13:09,800 --> 00:13:12,080 Speaker 4: things like the EU. But they can also just decide 268 00:13:12,080 --> 00:13:12,959 Speaker 4: to go to China. 269 00:13:13,040 --> 00:13:18,240 Speaker 1: And if you that's already happening, it's already happening, and 270 00:13:18,280 --> 00:13:20,520 Speaker 1: think about it. But like, if that's the bet you're 271 00:13:20,520 --> 00:13:23,120 Speaker 1: going to make, okay, then why are you running around 272 00:13:23,120 --> 00:13:27,040 Speaker 1: the world like insulting everyone needlessly and you know, picking 273 00:13:27,080 --> 00:13:31,199 Speaker 1: fights with Denmark and sending jd Vance to like shake 274 00:13:31,240 --> 00:13:35,280 Speaker 1: his finger at the Europeans for their censorious ways, which 275 00:13:35,360 --> 00:13:37,720 Speaker 1: there's some legitimate critiques there, but then you know you 276 00:13:37,800 --> 00:13:41,600 Speaker 1: have no room to talk given what you're doing back home. Right, 277 00:13:41,679 --> 00:13:44,920 Speaker 1: And so if okay, if you wanted to do this intelligently, 278 00:13:45,080 --> 00:13:47,600 Speaker 1: which Sager was saying, this is like, in some ways, 279 00:13:47,640 --> 00:13:50,600 Speaker 1: I hate even indulging an intelligent conversation about this because 280 00:13:50,600 --> 00:13:51,959 Speaker 1: there is no intelligence behind this. 281 00:13:52,200 --> 00:13:52,360 Speaker 5: Right. 282 00:13:52,720 --> 00:13:55,120 Speaker 1: If you wanted to do this intelligently, and you wanted 283 00:13:55,120 --> 00:13:57,120 Speaker 1: to force the world to pick between you and China, 284 00:13:57,160 --> 00:13:59,520 Speaker 1: and you actually wanted to win in that, why would 285 00:13:59,520 --> 00:14:03,000 Speaker 1: you tearify entire world? Right? Why would you go around 286 00:14:03,040 --> 00:14:05,560 Speaker 1: insulting all of these people, picking a fight with Canada, 287 00:14:05,600 --> 00:14:07,600 Speaker 1: picking a fight with my picking a fight with Denmark 288 00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:10,560 Speaker 1: over Greenland, picking a fight with the EU. No, you 289 00:14:10,559 --> 00:14:13,480 Speaker 1: would want to isolate China. You would want to try 290 00:14:13,520 --> 00:14:17,000 Speaker 1: to make that deal appealing for your allies, and they've 291 00:14:17,040 --> 00:14:19,560 Speaker 1: done the total opposite of that. You know. I think 292 00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:23,800 Speaker 1: part of it comes from Trump's like he's an old man, 293 00:14:24,280 --> 00:14:26,400 Speaker 1: and his formative years when he was like at the 294 00:14:26,400 --> 00:14:29,760 Speaker 1: peak of his powers, or like the eighties and early nineties. Okay, 295 00:14:30,240 --> 00:14:33,040 Speaker 1: the US is in a very different position now. The 296 00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:37,080 Speaker 1: world has moved on, Right, we have a true economic 297 00:14:37,120 --> 00:14:40,360 Speaker 1: competitor in China, who is in many ways surpassing us 298 00:14:40,400 --> 00:14:45,040 Speaker 1: at this point, especially on technological development and their ability 299 00:14:45,080 --> 00:14:48,000 Speaker 1: to you know, build and deliver for their own people 300 00:14:48,120 --> 00:14:51,000 Speaker 1: and have some sort of like unity and program and 301 00:14:51,040 --> 00:14:54,320 Speaker 1: long term thinking behind all of that. And it just 302 00:14:54,360 --> 00:14:56,920 Speaker 1: seems to me like he didn't reckon with any of that, 303 00:14:57,080 --> 00:15:00,720 Speaker 1: because you know, I'm not a financial genius. I did 304 00:15:00,760 --> 00:15:04,440 Speaker 1: never I never took the series seven. I'm looking at 305 00:15:04,480 --> 00:15:07,720 Speaker 1: this all from like a political macro perspective, and it 306 00:15:07,800 --> 00:15:11,720 Speaker 1: does not surprise me at all that as the stock 307 00:15:11,760 --> 00:15:15,640 Speaker 1: market is tanking and as we are taking these insane 308 00:15:16,240 --> 00:15:19,560 Speaker 1: like positions and total chaos and they're on, they're off, 309 00:15:19,600 --> 00:15:22,040 Speaker 1: they're on, they're big, they're small, or whatever, we're doing 310 00:15:22,080 --> 00:15:24,280 Speaker 1: it again in ninety days, that the rest of the 311 00:15:24,280 --> 00:15:27,000 Speaker 1: world is going like we already were moving in the 312 00:15:27,040 --> 00:15:30,560 Speaker 1: direction of moving away from the dollar. Did we learn 313 00:15:30,640 --> 00:15:32,880 Speaker 1: nothing from the fact that we threw every sanction in 314 00:15:32,920 --> 00:15:35,000 Speaker 1: the book at Russia and they were like, yeah, we're 315 00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:37,720 Speaker 1: still okay, Like we're actually we were able to manage that. 316 00:15:37,760 --> 00:15:40,640 Speaker 1: And China is so much better position than Russia, in 317 00:15:40,680 --> 00:15:43,200 Speaker 1: such a wealthier place to be able to withstand what 318 00:15:43,280 --> 00:15:44,240 Speaker 1: we have to throw at them. 319 00:15:44,920 --> 00:15:46,560 Speaker 4: Well, I just want to say quickly, like on the 320 00:15:46,720 --> 00:15:49,120 Speaker 4: so Scott Bessett was making the point on Talker last 321 00:15:49,120 --> 00:15:50,920 Speaker 4: week that the mark a lot of the market dips 322 00:15:50,920 --> 00:15:53,520 Speaker 4: started with deep seek, which is super interesting if you're 323 00:15:53,520 --> 00:15:57,320 Speaker 4: making this bet about China, and I think what the 324 00:15:57,360 --> 00:16:00,280 Speaker 4: reason that they were doing the penguin tariffs and the 325 00:16:00,280 --> 00:16:03,000 Speaker 4: reason that they were like being so chaotic. I'm not 326 00:16:03,040 --> 00:16:05,080 Speaker 4: saying that there was like a method to the madness. 327 00:16:05,080 --> 00:16:07,320 Speaker 4: I think people were on different pages. I think Trump 328 00:16:07,400 --> 00:16:10,640 Speaker 4: allowed that to happen because he was like, the more 329 00:16:10,880 --> 00:16:13,640 Speaker 4: people have no idea what my strategy is, the more 330 00:16:13,680 --> 00:16:15,880 Speaker 4: that they bet with the United States. It creates this 331 00:16:16,040 --> 00:16:19,440 Speaker 4: complete state of total chaos and uncertainty, and we are 332 00:16:19,480 --> 00:16:22,080 Speaker 4: the steady hand, and it's the. 333 00:16:22,040 --> 00:16:26,680 Speaker 1: Study Are you kidding me? Are you kidding to China? 334 00:16:26,720 --> 00:16:28,160 Speaker 4: But this is what I'm saying, this is what I'm 335 00:16:28,160 --> 00:16:30,720 Speaker 4: saying with the best at point, he's making the point 336 00:16:30,840 --> 00:16:35,000 Speaker 4: that the deep seek leap is baked into the market 337 00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:38,680 Speaker 4: decline at the same time as they're saying the uncertainty 338 00:16:38,760 --> 00:16:41,720 Speaker 4: will cause people to bet on the United States. I 339 00:16:41,760 --> 00:16:46,080 Speaker 4: think there's there's something if you are Canada or Mexico 340 00:16:46,200 --> 00:16:47,800 Speaker 4: and you were treated a little bit differently in all 341 00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:49,960 Speaker 4: of this, but still got some attacks, although I know 342 00:16:50,040 --> 00:16:53,480 Speaker 4: we have. Yesterday Trump said nice things about Queen Cloudy 343 00:16:53,480 --> 00:16:55,000 Speaker 4: as shine Bomb the show. 344 00:16:58,560 --> 00:17:01,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, he's part of that percent approval ratings she had. 345 00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:07,600 Speaker 4: But for some people, like for some countries, it there's 346 00:17:07,680 --> 00:17:10,359 Speaker 4: logic for Trump flex and his muscles and saying you 347 00:17:10,359 --> 00:17:11,560 Speaker 4: don't want to be doing this with. 348 00:17:11,600 --> 00:17:15,080 Speaker 5: China, like this is is the US. You're safer with us. Well, 349 00:17:15,080 --> 00:17:16,920 Speaker 5: it didn't. It's not turning out that way. 350 00:17:17,359 --> 00:17:19,119 Speaker 2: One thing I just want to put on quickly just 351 00:17:19,160 --> 00:17:21,360 Speaker 2: to show you guys, like why China is so much 352 00:17:21,359 --> 00:17:24,119 Speaker 2: better positioned is this story which I was just reading 353 00:17:24,119 --> 00:17:26,840 Speaker 2: this morning. This will not really make sense to most people, 354 00:17:26,880 --> 00:17:30,119 Speaker 2: but this is an example of what realestate capacity looks like. 355 00:17:30,400 --> 00:17:32,480 Speaker 2: So JD dot Com, for people who don't know, is 356 00:17:32,480 --> 00:17:34,919 Speaker 2: one of the biggest companies in the Fortune or in 357 00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:39,160 Speaker 2: the Global five hundred and it is according to the 358 00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:41,840 Speaker 2: Wall Street Journal. Here what the Chinese government has said 359 00:17:42,240 --> 00:17:45,400 Speaker 2: is that this is effectively like forcing Amazon to then 360 00:17:45,520 --> 00:17:50,359 Speaker 2: pump twenty seven billion dollars of money into their economy, 361 00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:55,280 Speaker 2: to force that company to buy exclusively Chinese products and 362 00:17:55,400 --> 00:17:59,200 Speaker 2: to boost their domestic manufacturing. So I just want to 363 00:17:59,240 --> 00:18:02,359 Speaker 2: show people, like, when you have a wholesome strategy, you 364 00:18:02,440 --> 00:18:05,680 Speaker 2: can absorb one hundred and twenty five percent tariffs. If 365 00:18:05,760 --> 00:18:08,480 Speaker 2: this was a strategy that was pushing something like this, 366 00:18:08,640 --> 00:18:11,399 Speaker 2: I would be behind it. But I don't see a 367 00:18:11,520 --> 00:18:15,040 Speaker 2: dollar for dollar investment credit here being pushed in the 368 00:18:15,119 --> 00:18:18,560 Speaker 2: United States. Instead, the Trump administration currently endorsed a one 369 00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:22,320 Speaker 2: trillion dollar cut from the United States government budget, while 370 00:18:22,359 --> 00:18:26,000 Speaker 2: we're also simultaneously increasing the Pentagon budget by one hundred 371 00:18:26,040 --> 00:18:29,520 Speaker 2: and fifty billion dollars. So there is actually a reduction 372 00:18:29,640 --> 00:18:33,240 Speaker 2: in state capacity and in cutting project yeah doze project 373 00:18:33,440 --> 00:18:38,160 Speaker 2: cutting taxes, reducing state capacity. We're actually cutting manufacturing tax 374 00:18:38,200 --> 00:18:42,439 Speaker 2: credits and extending them for corporations, all while trying to 375 00:18:42,520 --> 00:18:45,520 Speaker 2: levy a massive tariff. China, on the other hand, when 376 00:18:45,560 --> 00:18:48,440 Speaker 2: they absorb a massive tariff, what do they do. They're like, hey, 377 00:18:48,520 --> 00:18:51,840 Speaker 2: JD dot Com aka Amazon or retailer or whatever. They're like, 378 00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:54,600 Speaker 2: you're pumping twenty seven billion into the economy, and they 379 00:18:54,600 --> 00:18:57,760 Speaker 2: can do that to every single company in their entire 380 00:18:57,800 --> 00:19:01,320 Speaker 2: country simultaneously. They don't have We have some idiot Jerome 381 00:19:01,359 --> 00:19:03,720 Speaker 2: Powell just like reading the tea leaves on an a 382 00:19:03,800 --> 00:19:06,560 Speaker 2: magic eight ball. They're like, the rates are getting cut now. 383 00:19:06,840 --> 00:19:09,159 Speaker 2: They also they don't have Congress. They can just pump 384 00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:12,960 Speaker 2: money into their economy. They are ten x better position 385 00:19:13,040 --> 00:19:16,159 Speaker 2: in my opinion, right now than we are because of 386 00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:19,520 Speaker 2: these cross cutting forces. All of this is actually possible 387 00:19:19,520 --> 00:19:22,600 Speaker 2: in a democratic system, but it would require a whole 388 00:19:22,640 --> 00:19:26,000 Speaker 2: of government approach, manufacturing, tax credits and more. And I 389 00:19:26,080 --> 00:19:29,560 Speaker 2: think that is really the most like blackpilling thing about 390 00:19:29,560 --> 00:19:31,679 Speaker 2: all of this. And yeah, just reading that, I was 391 00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:34,280 Speaker 2: I'm like in awe that they can just go imagine 392 00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:36,760 Speaker 2: summoning bezos the way that they imprisoned that guy was 393 00:19:36,800 --> 00:19:39,520 Speaker 2: at jack MA and they're like, yeah, you're putting twenty 394 00:19:39,520 --> 00:19:43,159 Speaker 2: seven billion off the top, it's going straight into the economy. 395 00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:45,240 Speaker 2: There's no yes or no, they're just like, this is 396 00:19:45,240 --> 00:19:48,919 Speaker 2: what you're doing. And in that my admiration for that 397 00:19:49,040 --> 00:19:53,240 Speaker 2: is that it's Yes, often they use their authoritarianism capriciously 398 00:19:53,320 --> 00:19:56,080 Speaker 2: and to crack down whatever, but like, in this sense, 399 00:19:56,359 --> 00:20:01,160 Speaker 2: it is so obviously intelligent in knowing exactly how to 400 00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:03,800 Speaker 2: make sure that the Chinese customer is not you know, 401 00:20:03,840 --> 00:20:07,919 Speaker 2: broadly affected keeping their supply chain. They don't care if 402 00:20:07,960 --> 00:20:11,480 Speaker 2: it's going to impact jdstock or JD dot Com stock, 403 00:20:11,760 --> 00:20:16,040 Speaker 2: which ironically it actually went up as a result of this. Yeah, 404 00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:18,880 Speaker 2: but I'm just saying they don't care about these short 405 00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:22,760 Speaker 2: term you know, you know, even quarter by quarter basis, 406 00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:26,440 Speaker 2: and that's why they're well positioned for strength and frankly 407 00:20:26,680 --> 00:20:29,720 Speaker 2: even more like the autaric protectionist vision that the Trump 408 00:20:29,720 --> 00:20:31,679 Speaker 2: administration wants. You can have that, but then you have 409 00:20:31,720 --> 00:20:33,679 Speaker 2: to do stuff like this, and you'd have to do 410 00:20:33,680 --> 00:20:36,119 Speaker 2: it via Congress. You have to you'd actually have to 411 00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:40,720 Speaker 2: endorse a one trillion dollar a one trillion dollar investment 412 00:20:40,760 --> 00:20:43,600 Speaker 2: tax credit that would be giving to all of companies 413 00:20:43,680 --> 00:20:46,040 Speaker 2: that want to build in the United States phase ins. 414 00:20:46,320 --> 00:20:49,000 Speaker 2: But you need then you can't be cutting the EPA. 415 00:20:49,040 --> 00:20:51,320 Speaker 2: You know, a friend of mine and very into regular 416 00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:54,119 Speaker 2: nuclear energy just sent me this dose is trying to 417 00:20:54,160 --> 00:20:57,440 Speaker 2: act the entire team that would be responsible for green 418 00:20:57,480 --> 00:21:00,720 Speaker 2: lighting new nuclear reactors. Right, So what are we doing here? 419 00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:02,760 Speaker 2: That's actually about if you know, abundance. We talk a 420 00:21:02,800 --> 00:21:04,920 Speaker 2: lot about abundance. That's a key part I think of 421 00:21:04,960 --> 00:21:09,119 Speaker 2: the abundance agenda. Meanwhile, you know, over there everything is 422 00:21:09,160 --> 00:21:12,520 Speaker 2: so vertically integrated that yes, they obviously have inefficiency, but 423 00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:16,800 Speaker 2: whenever it's like hyper focused on something very important, that is, 424 00:21:16,880 --> 00:21:19,520 Speaker 2: they're ready to spring into action. They've studied the US 425 00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:22,639 Speaker 2: economic playbook for years. Russia is the greatest thing that 426 00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:24,800 Speaker 2: ever happened to them. They got to battle test it 427 00:21:24,840 --> 00:21:28,240 Speaker 2: and they got to observe exactly how it all works. 428 00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:30,280 Speaker 2: I mean, I remember screaming this at the time. I 429 00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:33,360 Speaker 2: was said, why why would you blow it all here 430 00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:37,560 Speaker 2: on a stupid conflict like Russia Ukraine? Whenever China is 431 00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:39,960 Speaker 2: just sitting there and watching this entire thing. 432 00:21:39,960 --> 00:21:43,080 Speaker 1: We talked about this, We talked about this. I mean, 433 00:21:43,160 --> 00:21:46,080 Speaker 1: Ryan can't we can't beat the Hohu Thies in Yemen. 434 00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:51,080 Speaker 1: We can't. Like we stay in Afghanistan for twenty plus 435 00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:53,920 Speaker 1: years and the Taliban just to me, like, we think 436 00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:55,440 Speaker 1: we're going to be able to go toe to toe 437 00:21:55,440 --> 00:21:58,520 Speaker 1: with China at this point. I'm sorry, it's delusional. It's delusional. 438 00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:02,720 Speaker 6: Yeah, And we're like, we're shocked at what China has 439 00:22:02,760 --> 00:22:06,959 Speaker 6: been able to build development wise from two thousand up 440 00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:11,160 Speaker 6: until twenty twenty five. And we're like, China is cheating us, 441 00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:14,960 Speaker 6: you know, we are, We're such victims. How on earth 442 00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:17,200 Speaker 6: could China have done this to us. We never should 443 00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:20,600 Speaker 6: have let them into WTO and PNCR was such a mistake. 444 00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:22,440 Speaker 2: It's like, well, what where did the What did the. 445 00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:26,400 Speaker 6: US spend its trillions of dollars on from two thousand 446 00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:30,000 Speaker 6: until today? We spent all of our money in Iraq 447 00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:33,280 Speaker 6: and Afghanistan And during the during the Cold War, the 448 00:22:33,359 --> 00:22:36,280 Speaker 6: US actually did have the capacity to organize its foreign 449 00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:42,199 Speaker 6: in corporate policy in a uniform ish way, similar to 450 00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:45,840 Speaker 6: how China can today, because the parties were the parties 451 00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:49,280 Speaker 6: agreed on what US foreign policy ought to be taking 452 00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:53,280 Speaker 6: on the Soviet Union, establishing American togemony, and the corporate 453 00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:56,119 Speaker 6: CEOs were on board. They would like just pick up 454 00:22:56,119 --> 00:22:58,320 Speaker 6: a phone like all right, this is these are your 455 00:22:58,359 --> 00:23:03,119 Speaker 6: marching orders. And the corporations they would not China style, 456 00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:06,119 Speaker 6: but they would they would follow the directions that they 457 00:23:06,119 --> 00:23:09,399 Speaker 6: were getting from from a white House that had the 458 00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:13,119 Speaker 6: buy in from the other party. Now Trump is fighting 459 00:23:13,119 --> 00:23:17,159 Speaker 6: a two front war. He's trying to basically eradicate the 460 00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:22,440 Speaker 6: Democratic Party and all of its constituent elements with universities, 461 00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:27,040 Speaker 6: research union, you know, teachers unions, federal workers like he's 462 00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:32,679 Speaker 6: trying to basically destroy his domestic enemies, while he is 463 00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:36,040 Speaker 6: also then waging war trade war on all of these 464 00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:38,479 Speaker 6: countries around the world. And that means you don't have 465 00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:42,880 Speaker 6: a unified a center of power on which to take 466 00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:45,840 Speaker 6: on China like you can't. Maybe he can win, you know, 467 00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:49,360 Speaker 6: a two hundred and eighty five front war, but it's 468 00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:50,639 Speaker 6: a little bit more difficult. 469 00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:53,359 Speaker 5: We also have a corporate class compared to mid century 470 00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:54,240 Speaker 5: post war period. 471 00:23:54,359 --> 00:23:57,240 Speaker 6: That is, they're not pro American, they're global. 472 00:23:57,320 --> 00:23:59,240 Speaker 4: And they're more there's there's so much more powerful. I mean, 473 00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:01,199 Speaker 4: you have somebody like Markser who running a company that 474 00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:03,040 Speaker 4: is significantly more powerful, the most RT right. 475 00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:06,560 Speaker 6: And he speaks Chinese like like he's not gonna like 476 00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:08,840 Speaker 6: be like all right, let's let's rally around the flag. 477 00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:09,720 Speaker 2: He's like what flag? 478 00:24:10,040 --> 00:24:12,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, Eli Mooble company, Yeah, same yeah. 479 00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:13,120 Speaker 3: Yeah. 480 00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:16,120 Speaker 2: I mean the vast majority of Meta users are not American. 481 00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:18,639 Speaker 2: That's people forget. That's like it's actually not really I mean, 482 00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:21,359 Speaker 2: it's an American flagship company. But the absolute back I think 483 00:24:21,359 --> 00:24:24,040 Speaker 2: they have three billion users, so you do math. I mean, 484 00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:27,080 Speaker 2: it's not that difficult to figure out what percentage of 485 00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:30,600 Speaker 2: people do use their platform just broadly. I think Ryan 486 00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:33,560 Speaker 2: is absolutely correct and on all of this. Look, I mean, 487 00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:35,240 Speaker 2: I don't want to understate the great strengths of the 488 00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:37,280 Speaker 2: United States. Like the one thing we have going for 489 00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:39,359 Speaker 2: us is that we are the greatest consumer market in 490 00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:41,959 Speaker 2: the history of the world. Uh. Probably not a good thing, 491 00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:44,159 Speaker 2: but that does mean that we have a lot of 492 00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:47,479 Speaker 2: letter below. Yeah, shout out to five below. And I mean, 493 00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:50,280 Speaker 2: you know, that's that's what makes American tick. Who am 494 00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:53,280 Speaker 2: I say otherwise TJ Max Home Goods and all this 495 00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:55,480 Speaker 2: other stuff. Uh. But and a lot of that does 496 00:24:55,480 --> 00:24:58,399 Speaker 2: come from China, so they're obviously going to have an effect. 497 00:24:58,440 --> 00:24:59,880 Speaker 2: I'm not going to say they won't make it. It's 498 00:24:59,880 --> 00:25:01,920 Speaker 2: just like the Russians. No one will say that the 499 00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:05,959 Speaker 2: Russians are materially better off than whenever they invaded Ukraine. 500 00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:08,800 Speaker 2: But the idea that you can just overnight like crush 501 00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:11,920 Speaker 2: them or something, when they have such incredible state capacity 502 00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:14,560 Speaker 2: in China and they also have their own ability to 503 00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:18,120 Speaker 2: act as well as a much more unified population. I mean, 504 00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:20,840 Speaker 2: I don't know if you guys saw this, but that 505 00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:24,400 Speaker 2: JD clip of him calling the Chinese peasants, yeah, talking 506 00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:29,920 Speaker 2: about Chinese that has gone massively viral in chinaeah massively 507 00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:32,800 Speaker 2: viral on I forget what it's called webo or something 508 00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:36,280 Speaker 2: like that, and the state censors are actually usually they 509 00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:40,520 Speaker 2: crush clips that get circulated around. They're like, oh, let fly, 510 00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:43,360 Speaker 2: let fly, and that is rock. Some of the state. 511 00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:46,760 Speaker 1: Folks people are sharing old clips of maw being like 512 00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:49,719 Speaker 1: we will never give it, oh boy. And I mean, 513 00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:51,720 Speaker 1: but that's a real phenomenon, Like look at what happened 514 00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:56,960 Speaker 1: in Canada with the trade war. Suddenly it flipped politics 515 00:25:57,000 --> 00:26:00,000 Speaker 1: on its head. The conservative dude was ready to run 516 00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:04,000 Speaker 1: and now Carney the liberal has an eight percent chance 517 00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:06,919 Speaker 1: of being the next prime minister. Like there was a 518 00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:10,760 Speaker 1: real there was like a spark of Canadian nationalism, maybe 519 00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:13,680 Speaker 1: at like historic levels, and it's going to be the 520 00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:16,760 Speaker 1: same thing in China. Like they are unified behind We're 521 00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:18,720 Speaker 1: going to win. Our country is not unified. But our 522 00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:20,679 Speaker 1: country does not want this. If you had to vote, 523 00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:23,680 Speaker 1: I mean, I think a majority of probably even Republicans 524 00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:25,399 Speaker 1: would be like, I don't know about this direction, but 525 00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:27,359 Speaker 1: certainly a majority of the public based on all of 526 00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:30,440 Speaker 1: the polling that we've seen Trump himself, he has squandered, 527 00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:34,160 Speaker 1: like his honeymoon period is over. The approval ratings now 528 00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:36,960 Speaker 1: are back down to where they were in the first term, 529 00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:40,520 Speaker 1: low forties. You know, he has expended the sort of 530 00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:43,600 Speaker 1: like political capital that he had accumulated with an impressive 531 00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:46,000 Speaker 1: victory and you know, Republican wins and all of that 532 00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:49,040 Speaker 1: sort of stuff like that's over and gone. So even 533 00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:51,960 Speaker 1: just in terms of the political positioning, they're in much 534 00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:54,359 Speaker 1: better shape. The last thing, just before we move on, 535 00:26:54,440 --> 00:26:56,240 Speaker 1: because the picture has changed just in the time that 536 00:26:56,240 --> 00:26:59,639 Speaker 1: we've been speaking. The markets are now open and you 537 00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:03,120 Speaker 1: can see there's you know, the that they're down a bit, 538 00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:07,199 Speaker 1: So you know this is going to be who knows 539 00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:10,160 Speaker 1: what things are going to look like today as we're 540 00:27:10,359 --> 00:27:11,200 Speaker 1: moving forward. 541 00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:13,119 Speaker 3: But I love to. 542 00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:15,960 Speaker 2: Wall Street wraps one of the wildest weeks. 543 00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:20,080 Speaker 1: There you go, for no reason. I love giving everybody 544 00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:23,760 Speaker 1: insight into what the e commerce folks want me to buy. 545 00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:31,600 Speaker 1: It's always like, all right, let's let's unless you guys 546 00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:33,239 Speaker 1: have some final thoughts. Let's go ahead and get to 547 00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:36,400 Speaker 1: this Supreme Court ruling that was pretty significant. Anybody any 548 00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:41,960 Speaker 1: last thoughts on the tariff economic piece? We're good, okay, 549 00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:45,159 Speaker 1: all right, So last week on Friday, we actually got 550 00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:48,119 Speaker 1: to talk to the lawyer of Kilmara Brego Garcia, Marylyn 551 00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:53,320 Speaker 1: father immigrant deported wrongfully. Administrative administration had admitted, like they 552 00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:56,399 Speaker 1: called it an administrative error. He was sent to this prison, 553 00:27:56,600 --> 00:28:01,560 Speaker 1: this notorious torture dungeon, Kelly's Dungeons and Salvador. And so 554 00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:04,400 Speaker 1: the administration was like, yeah, we fucked up, but we're 555 00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:05,920 Speaker 1: not going to do anything about it, and you can't 556 00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:10,240 Speaker 1: make us. District Court judge said you need to do 557 00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:11,960 Speaker 1: what you can to get him back. They said you 558 00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:16,360 Speaker 1: need to facilitate and effectuate his return. Peel's Court agreed, 559 00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:20,879 Speaker 1: went to the Supreme Court. Supreme Court initially issued an 560 00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:23,679 Speaker 1: administrative stay saying, okay, well, the deadline that you had 561 00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:25,760 Speaker 1: to bring them back tonight, like we're putting that on 562 00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:27,399 Speaker 1: hold because we're going to take a look at this. 563 00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:31,159 Speaker 1: And now we have their answer. And it's pretty remarkable 564 00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:38,400 Speaker 1: because all nine justices sided with the lower courts saying 565 00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:41,560 Speaker 1: you have to in this warning again is key facilitate 566 00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:47,680 Speaker 1: Abrego Garcia's return from this prison in El Salvador. So again, 567 00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:52,560 Speaker 1: everyone from Justice Alito and Justice Thomas to you know, 568 00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:57,240 Speaker 1: Sonya Soto mayor, they all were on board with this. 569 00:28:57,600 --> 00:29:02,040 Speaker 1: It's an unsigned order, and as I mentioned, these two 570 00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:05,440 Speaker 1: terms are important. Effectively, what the order here from the 571 00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:09,040 Speaker 1: court said is they have to facilitate his return. But 572 00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:14,560 Speaker 1: the District Court needs to clarify the term effectuate to 573 00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:18,960 Speaker 1: make sure that it is not overstepping its bounds with 574 00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:23,560 Speaker 1: regard to the executive's prerogative to conduct foreign policy. The 575 00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:26,640 Speaker 1: lower court has now amended its order to just take 576 00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:30,960 Speaker 1: out the term effectuate. So I think this is being 577 00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:35,720 Speaker 1: seen rightfully so as a major victory certainly for this 578 00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:39,040 Speaker 1: you know, for this individual, for his family, also an 579 00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:42,800 Speaker 1: indication of you know, the Supreme Court's willingness to stand 580 00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:45,600 Speaker 1: up to this administration on some fronts. But I also 581 00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:51,240 Speaker 1: don't want to celebrate here to early Ryan, because what 582 00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:54,120 Speaker 1: does it technically mean to facilitate his return? Like if 583 00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:56,480 Speaker 1: the Trump administration just goes to Bokelly and is like 584 00:29:56,600 --> 00:29:59,240 Speaker 1: wink wink, non nod, can you send that guy back 585 00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:01,840 Speaker 1: and Bekel is like, sorry, can't do it. 586 00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:02,520 Speaker 5: They can. 587 00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:04,320 Speaker 1: Can they go back to the court and be, oh, well, 588 00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:06,320 Speaker 1: we tried, we did our best, and you know what 589 00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:07,920 Speaker 1: what can be done? I guess he just has to 590 00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:10,160 Speaker 1: stay there now and be you know, tortured and sold 591 00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:11,560 Speaker 1: on for slave labor for life. 592 00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:16,000 Speaker 6: And it's also worth noting that the administration fired the 593 00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:20,880 Speaker 6: attorney who submitted the brief that acknowledged the administrative error. 594 00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:26,800 Speaker 6: Uh and and uh, which suggests like where they are 595 00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:31,120 Speaker 6: on this situation. I wonder if it's simply that they 596 00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:34,880 Speaker 6: are they do not want this guy giving interviews if 597 00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:38,280 Speaker 6: he comes back and talking about the conditions of the 598 00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:40,880 Speaker 6: prison that that he's been that he's been living in. 599 00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:42,160 Speaker 2: Uh. 600 00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:47,440 Speaker 6: To to prevent that, I suppose they could facilitate his return, 601 00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:52,120 Speaker 6: put him in detention and then deport him somewhere, you know, 602 00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:54,400 Speaker 6: just keep him definitely in attention and to try to 603 00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:57,239 Speaker 6: and while they try to either get the get the 604 00:30:57,280 --> 00:31:00,680 Speaker 6: stay lifted on the ability to deport him to all Salvador, 605 00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:04,000 Speaker 6: or try to deport him to some other country that 606 00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:05,640 Speaker 6: would that would take him, or they maybe they send 607 00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:07,880 Speaker 6: him to Guantanamo. There are all kinds of like evil 608 00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:13,040 Speaker 6: options you know that Steven Miller has before him and so, 609 00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:17,040 Speaker 6: which which to me means it's probably unlikely that they're 610 00:31:17,080 --> 00:31:18,920 Speaker 6: going to do the non evil one, which would be 611 00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:25,560 Speaker 6: our apologies, UH, please send this guy back. Uh and 612 00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:28,160 Speaker 6: and then if they want to go through the deportation process. 613 00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:30,840 Speaker 6: They could, you know, they could. They can do that 614 00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:33,520 Speaker 6: and but you know, do it on the up and up. 615 00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:35,760 Speaker 2: One thing I wanted to flag here while you guys 616 00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:38,080 Speaker 2: were talking, was this a friend of mine jaos one 617 00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:40,320 Speaker 2: of your guys thoughts. My friend Jason Willik says this quote. 618 00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:43,640 Speaker 2: It is probably not unintentional that the Scotus order it 619 00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:48,640 Speaker 2: refers explicitly to Abrego Garcia's release from custody rather than 620 00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:51,760 Speaker 2: his return to the United States. Is that what you 621 00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:53,960 Speaker 2: guys saw in this because it says the order posually 622 00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:57,080 Speaker 2: requires the government to facilitate release from custody and to 623 00:31:57,200 --> 00:31:59,200 Speaker 2: ensure his case is handled as it would have been 624 00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:01,920 Speaker 2: had he not been in properly sent to L Salvador. 625 00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:06,000 Speaker 1: I don't think so, because the thing is he is 626 00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:11,600 Speaker 1: specifically barred from being sent to El Salvador. Specifically, that 627 00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:13,560 Speaker 1: was what the I have. What is it called like 628 00:32:13,600 --> 00:32:17,320 Speaker 1: an order which holding order or something like that, So 629 00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:21,440 Speaker 1: it's specifically That's where they messed up, is they could 630 00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:24,040 Speaker 1: have gone through the court process. He has an ongoing asylum. 631 00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:26,520 Speaker 1: Came a claim too that you know, his attorney at 632 00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:28,480 Speaker 1: least thought that he had a good shot at being 633 00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:30,560 Speaker 1: at prevailing, and whether or not that's case, we don't 634 00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:34,680 Speaker 1: really know. But you know, he had a they had found, okay, 635 00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:37,000 Speaker 1: a credible fear, you can go through this asylum process. 636 00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:39,320 Speaker 1: So he has an ongoing asylum case. But specifically the 637 00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:42,440 Speaker 1: judge said he cannot be deforded to this particular country. 638 00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:45,800 Speaker 1: So if you're just releasing him from custody, you are 639 00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:49,520 Speaker 1: still in very clear blatant violation of what a US 640 00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:53,480 Speaker 1: judge had prohibited and what this administration admitted they were 641 00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:57,200 Speaker 1: prohibited from doing. So I think, I don't, you know, 642 00:32:57,400 --> 00:32:59,960 Speaker 1: maybe I'm missing something. I'm not a lawyer, but I think, 643 00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:04,080 Speaker 1: get that doesn't follow logically to me. What to me 644 00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:07,840 Speaker 1: more of the gray area is sort of similar to 645 00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:10,840 Speaker 1: how the Supreme Court had ruled. Are you you can 646 00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:14,200 Speaker 1: go forward for now with this Alien Enemies Act while 647 00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:16,480 Speaker 1: you know this is working its way through the lower courts, 648 00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:18,520 Speaker 1: but you have to provide some level of due process. 649 00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:20,640 Speaker 1: They have to be able to file habeas petitions, and 650 00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:23,280 Speaker 1: they have to be given quote unquote reasonable notice. But 651 00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:26,000 Speaker 1: they left it to the administration to define, well, what 652 00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:29,520 Speaker 1: do we consider to be reasonable notice? So I sort 653 00:33:29,520 --> 00:33:31,880 Speaker 1: of feel like this is a similar deal where it's 654 00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:34,600 Speaker 1: like you're leaving it to the administration to determine what 655 00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:38,560 Speaker 1: does it mean to quote unquote facilitate his return. And 656 00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:41,000 Speaker 1: I think Rian is one hundred percent right. I mean, 657 00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:43,760 Speaker 1: I think it's not just that they don't want him 658 00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:47,520 Speaker 1: back and going on sixty minutes and talking about the reality. 659 00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:51,360 Speaker 1: I think it's also, you know, they they want to 660 00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:56,160 Speaker 1: maintain the image that you know, we can just send 661 00:33:56,200 --> 00:33:58,960 Speaker 1: you if you want. They want to maintain that hard 662 00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:01,960 Speaker 1: line image and that there's no recourse, and they certainly 663 00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:05,040 Speaker 1: don't want people really getting a sense like you know, 664 00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:07,680 Speaker 1: you're they They've called him, they've alleged she's a human 665 00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:10,759 Speaker 1: trafficker and like a leader in MS thirteen. There is 666 00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:13,759 Speaker 1: just zero evidence to support any of that, and so 667 00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:15,879 Speaker 1: they certainly don't want the public to get a look 668 00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:19,360 Speaker 1: at this, you know, seemingly innocent man with no criminal 669 00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:22,440 Speaker 1: record that they sent to be indefinitely tortured. 670 00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:24,760 Speaker 2: I think it's a go ahead. 671 00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:27,280 Speaker 4: I was gonna say, sucker, is Jason making the point 672 00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:30,359 Speaker 4: that they could get Mexico to accept him. 673 00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:33,160 Speaker 2: I don't, like, I just would I did not understand 674 00:34:33,160 --> 00:34:35,000 Speaker 2: because I was like, weoll as an el Salvadoran citizen. 675 00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:36,520 Speaker 2: I was like, so would they just release him from 676 00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:38,520 Speaker 2: custody now, you know? But if if that's how the. 677 00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:42,279 Speaker 6: That seems plausible that they say, Okay, legally we can 678 00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:44,440 Speaker 6: deport him to Mexico if Mexico will take him. 679 00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:47,319 Speaker 1: But he but it also says in the order though, 680 00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:48,839 Speaker 1: if you want to put that back up on the screen, 681 00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:52,040 Speaker 1: it also says the case has to be handled as 682 00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:55,760 Speaker 1: if this had never happened. So it says the language 683 00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:58,319 Speaker 1: is such like you have to pretend go back to 684 00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:02,160 Speaker 1: what you would have done, and you know, handle this 685 00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:05,000 Speaker 1: in the way that it would have been handled had 686 00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:09,759 Speaker 1: he not been improperly sent to El Salvador. So I, 687 00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:14,040 Speaker 1: you know, I certainly he can't just be deported without 688 00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:16,200 Speaker 1: again some sort of due process. There was no due 689 00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:18,480 Speaker 1: process here. That would be in violation of the other 690 00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:20,719 Speaker 1: thing that the Supreme Court said. That indicates you have 691 00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:22,279 Speaker 1: to give these people due process. 692 00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:24,600 Speaker 2: So I have to bring back give him Ahavius petition 693 00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:27,480 Speaker 2: in Texas or Louisiana or whatever right that way. 694 00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:30,600 Speaker 4: So that's what that's what's interesting about this particular case 695 00:35:30,719 --> 00:35:33,360 Speaker 4: is that one of the reasons they're sending Venezuelans to 696 00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:38,760 Speaker 4: Al Salvador is because obviously Venezuela is not accepting deportations. 697 00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:41,120 Speaker 5: And so I think the administration. 698 00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:46,160 Speaker 4: The error here, and it is incredibly stupid, is that 699 00:35:46,239 --> 00:35:50,080 Speaker 4: they didn't realize his petition specifically was barring him from 700 00:35:50,120 --> 00:35:53,000 Speaker 4: going back because of the asylum claim of credible fear. 701 00:35:53,160 --> 00:35:54,799 Speaker 4: And so I think they keep trying to make the 702 00:35:54,840 --> 00:35:57,839 Speaker 4: point that they can boot people to wherever they want 703 00:35:57,880 --> 00:36:00,319 Speaker 4: to boot people, so long as that country accepts them, 704 00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:04,160 Speaker 4: because they're struggling to do the quote mass deportations, and 705 00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:06,120 Speaker 4: one of the ways that they're able to get more 706 00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:11,279 Speaker 4: deportations is having Bukel, for example, just taken people who 707 00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:15,399 Speaker 4: are Venezuelan. So I mean, I wonder if they will 708 00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:19,320 Speaker 4: pursue some other deportation option. I don't know the legality. 709 00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:21,160 Speaker 4: I think that's what was saying. 710 00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:23,120 Speaker 2: I think the reason that they won't admit it is 711 00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:26,320 Speaker 2: because it takes off the VEGNA. Right now, obviously the 712 00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:29,520 Speaker 2: administration has lost a lot of credibility. I actually think Chrystal, 713 00:36:29,520 --> 00:36:32,919 Speaker 2: did you guys cover the case, the MS thirteen case 714 00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:37,160 Speaker 2: here in Virginia, the one where this is important where 715 00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:39,279 Speaker 2: they yeah, Okay, yeah, talk. 716 00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:41,080 Speaker 1: I'm actually looking for that right now. 717 00:36:41,120 --> 00:36:44,359 Speaker 2: This is an important case because the administration keeps trying 718 00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:48,080 Speaker 2: to do these flagship arrests where they'll be like this 719 00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:52,359 Speaker 2: guy MS thirteen literally here not far from where I live. 720 00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:54,640 Speaker 2: They arrested this guy and like he's a major leader 721 00:36:54,920 --> 00:36:57,640 Speaker 2: of MS thirteen. They charged him with all of this. 722 00:36:57,760 --> 00:37:00,720 Speaker 2: The Governor of Virginia was there, the Secondry of Homeland 723 00:37:00,719 --> 00:37:03,920 Speaker 2: Security was there, like this was a major event. And 724 00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:07,400 Speaker 2: then in the charging documents, basically all they said in 725 00:37:07,440 --> 00:37:09,840 Speaker 2: the charging documents was like, we caught him in possession 726 00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:12,319 Speaker 2: of an illegal firearm. Okay, I mean, listen, fine, but 727 00:37:12,640 --> 00:37:15,600 Speaker 2: that is a crime and definitely you know it'll get 728 00:37:15,600 --> 00:37:19,160 Speaker 2: sent to prison, not necessarily an MS thirteen quote gang leader. 729 00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:22,520 Speaker 2: And it seems that the administration now is going to 730 00:37:22,560 --> 00:37:26,960 Speaker 2: be dropping the case and instead pursuing deportation. Now, okay, 731 00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:29,880 Speaker 2: like you can pursue deportation based on like, oh, he 732 00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:34,920 Speaker 2: was charged or whatever with a possession of an illegal firearm, 733 00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:39,359 Speaker 2: but that's pretty far from human trafficking orchestrating murders and 734 00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:42,520 Speaker 2: being a gang leader. And it's pretty obvious that either 735 00:37:42,719 --> 00:37:45,200 Speaker 2: a bad intelligence or b this was literally just like 736 00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:47,840 Speaker 2: made up like it was a PR stunt, and I 737 00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:50,800 Speaker 2: think that is now what's happening. Where if you see 738 00:37:50,840 --> 00:37:53,960 Speaker 2: in the case here of Abrego Garcia and the government 739 00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:56,960 Speaker 2: has to admit in writing and then facilitate the return, 740 00:37:57,160 --> 00:37:58,919 Speaker 2: everyone's going to be because there's a lot of MAGA 741 00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:01,800 Speaker 2: people who are still like, oh, this doesn't matter whatever, 742 00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:04,359 Speaker 2: you come here legally, et cetera. They're going to be like, well, 743 00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:06,359 Speaker 2: hold on, Like if you have to bring somebody back 744 00:38:06,360 --> 00:38:08,040 Speaker 2: because you screwed up, it's like, well, how many other 745 00:38:08,080 --> 00:38:10,319 Speaker 2: screw ups are there in the bundle? Right? 746 00:38:10,520 --> 00:38:13,600 Speaker 1: And so to mention go ahead, I mean it just 747 00:38:13,680 --> 00:38:17,680 Speaker 1: it makes it clear, like it there's nothing about this. 748 00:38:18,040 --> 00:38:20,600 Speaker 1: Just grab someone and throw them in the prison. That 749 00:38:20,640 --> 00:38:24,040 Speaker 1: would preclude US citizens or anyone else from being caught 750 00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:27,000 Speaker 1: up in that as well. But I mean, to your point, Soccer, 751 00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:29,839 Speaker 1: about this this guy like they did a whole thing 752 00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:33,800 Speaker 1: and they portue he's the East Coast leader of MS thirteen. Okay, 753 00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:35,800 Speaker 1: well don't you want to have that guy in prison? 754 00:38:36,200 --> 00:38:38,799 Speaker 1: Because if you just deport him and he doesn't serve 755 00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:41,600 Speaker 1: any time in prison, what's to stop him from coming 756 00:38:41,680 --> 00:38:45,680 Speaker 1: right back? So you know, even Fox News was given 757 00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:47,960 Speaker 1: Caroline Lovett a hard time about this one because they're 758 00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:50,680 Speaker 1: thinking about it from that perspective of like, if this 759 00:38:50,760 --> 00:38:52,839 Speaker 1: guy's such a big criminal, like, of course you want 760 00:38:52,840 --> 00:38:54,799 Speaker 1: to prosecute him. Of course you want to get him 761 00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:57,440 Speaker 1: behind bars. So let me just play a little that exchange, 762 00:38:57,600 --> 00:38:59,640 Speaker 1: so you guys can hear how that went down. 763 00:39:00,360 --> 00:39:02,400 Speaker 7: Can you shed some light on this because it was 764 00:39:02,400 --> 00:39:05,320 Speaker 7: a story that we all covered that he was the 765 00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:09,040 Speaker 7: East Coast leader of MS thirteen, So what was the 766 00:39:09,080 --> 00:39:14,120 Speaker 7: evidence that supported that proclamation by the Department of Justice 767 00:39:14,160 --> 00:39:14,800 Speaker 7: and the FBI. 768 00:39:15,719 --> 00:39:17,919 Speaker 8: Here at the White House, we applaud the Attorney General 769 00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:22,160 Speaker 8: Pam Bondi, our FBI Director Cash Fattel for working hand 770 00:39:22,200 --> 00:39:25,360 Speaker 8: in hand with local law enforcement on the ground in 771 00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:29,800 Speaker 8: the Commonwealth of Virginia to detain and arrest this MS 772 00:39:29,840 --> 00:39:32,759 Speaker 8: thirteen ring leader. There was sufficient evidence to do so, 773 00:39:33,040 --> 00:39:34,560 Speaker 8: and now the case is in the hands of the 774 00:39:34,560 --> 00:39:38,239 Speaker 8: Department of Homeland Security, who will be deporting this individual 775 00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:42,000 Speaker 8: from our country. These agencies are working together in a 776 00:39:42,040 --> 00:39:47,320 Speaker 8: collaborative way to follow President Trump's directive to eradicate MS 777 00:39:47,360 --> 00:39:51,200 Speaker 8: thirteen and foreign terrorists from United States soil. So this 778 00:39:51,280 --> 00:39:54,920 Speaker 8: is an individual who was detained and arrested because of 779 00:39:54,960 --> 00:39:58,120 Speaker 8: the President's policies, and he will no longer be residing 780 00:39:58,120 --> 00:39:58,319 Speaker 8: in the. 781 00:39:58,360 --> 00:39:59,480 Speaker 5: United States of America. 782 00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:02,160 Speaker 7: I'm trying to get same for similarity on it, Caroline, 783 00:40:02,160 --> 00:40:05,439 Speaker 7: because you know, if indeed he is what we were 784 00:40:05,480 --> 00:40:08,640 Speaker 7: told he is, the East Coast leader of MS thirteen, 785 00:40:08,719 --> 00:40:12,240 Speaker 7: wouldn't it make sense to prosecute him for crimes related 786 00:40:12,280 --> 00:40:14,200 Speaker 7: to that. I know he was held on a gun charge, 787 00:40:14,520 --> 00:40:17,320 Speaker 7: but to make sure that any victims of MS thirteen 788 00:40:17,360 --> 00:40:20,279 Speaker 7: through his leadership, get their day in court here in 789 00:40:20,320 --> 00:40:23,120 Speaker 7: the United States and then send him to an El 790 00:40:23,160 --> 00:40:26,360 Speaker 7: Salvador in prison if he is deported and found guilty 791 00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:27,120 Speaker 7: on those crimes. 792 00:40:27,480 --> 00:40:30,640 Speaker 8: Well, again, this administration is doing things differently, Martha. And 793 00:40:30,680 --> 00:40:34,200 Speaker 8: this President has made a directive to his agencies, but 794 00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:38,520 Speaker 8: particularly the Department of Homeland Security, to remove foreign terrorists 795 00:40:38,520 --> 00:40:42,040 Speaker 8: from America's homeland to protect American citizens. And we have 796 00:40:42,160 --> 00:40:46,280 Speaker 8: an incredible diplomatic relationship with the President of El Salvador 797 00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:49,640 Speaker 8: and his government who have been detaining these MS thirteen 798 00:40:49,719 --> 00:40:53,120 Speaker 8: ring leaders and violent gang members in their prisons. And 799 00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:55,960 Speaker 8: American taxpayers don't have to foot the bill for that cost. 800 00:40:56,000 --> 00:40:59,400 Speaker 7: And so again the bottom line here in court said 801 00:40:58,560 --> 00:41:02,360 Speaker 7: that the Alien and Act could be used to remove people, 802 00:41:02,360 --> 00:41:04,600 Speaker 7: but they had to reach to do process first. I'm 803 00:41:04,600 --> 00:41:06,640 Speaker 7: only pressing on this because it was a huge story 804 00:41:06,880 --> 00:41:09,719 Speaker 7: and we covered it. Obviously, it would feel like that 805 00:41:09,760 --> 00:41:11,920 Speaker 7: person could lead to a lot of other evidence. The 806 00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:15,359 Speaker 7: DJ would be pressing to see this in court so 807 00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:18,360 Speaker 7: that other people could be exposed. And suddenly none of 808 00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:21,400 Speaker 7: that's happening. So can you explain why the change of 809 00:41:21,480 --> 00:41:23,240 Speaker 7: course in this particular case. 810 00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:26,799 Speaker 1: She doesn't explain the change of course, But in any 811 00:41:26,840 --> 00:41:28,920 Speaker 1: case that's you know, in Fox News like okay, if 812 00:41:28,920 --> 00:41:31,640 Speaker 1: this guy's such a big deal, what are we doing? 813 00:41:32,200 --> 00:41:35,120 Speaker 2: I do at least appreciate that because they got fooled, right. 814 00:41:35,200 --> 00:41:38,319 Speaker 2: They sent camera crews out there like they took it seriously. 815 00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:41,399 Speaker 2: They covered the arrest, They made this into a huge thing, 816 00:41:41,440 --> 00:41:43,759 Speaker 2: and you're like, so what, you just drugged me out 817 00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:46,640 Speaker 2: there to cover a gun charge. You know how many 818 00:41:46,680 --> 00:41:49,960 Speaker 2: gun charges there aren't this country. It's like, be serious, right, 819 00:41:50,000 --> 00:41:52,399 Speaker 2: and okay, you want to deport somebody for a gun charge? Okay, 820 00:41:52,600 --> 00:41:57,600 Speaker 2: yeah fine, but you know, be going around federal cases 821 00:41:58,000 --> 00:42:01,080 Speaker 2: like acting like this is some rico mo boss and 822 00:42:01,080 --> 00:42:02,920 Speaker 2: then just saying Oh, actually we're going to drop the case. 823 00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:04,480 Speaker 2: We don't actually have to prove any of this stuff 824 00:42:04,719 --> 00:42:07,520 Speaker 2: in court. There's a huge credit. I'm going to use 825 00:42:07,560 --> 00:42:11,640 Speaker 2: an old school Vietnam term which Ryan will love. Credibility gap. 826 00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:15,720 Speaker 2: There's a credibility gap that is opening with this white house. 827 00:42:15,960 --> 00:42:18,799 Speaker 4: Wait until Fox News gets a hold of Drop Site. 828 00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:20,759 Speaker 4: This is me teeing it over to Ryan because that's 829 00:42:20,760 --> 00:42:25,360 Speaker 4: what should really be infuriating, I mean infuriates me the 830 00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:28,839 Speaker 4: way there are clearly deals being struck and these guys 831 00:42:28,840 --> 00:42:31,320 Speaker 4: are being used as pawns on a bigger drug. 832 00:42:31,200 --> 00:42:33,920 Speaker 2: Yet Ryan, Yeah, story. Note, I still don't fully get it, 833 00:42:33,960 --> 00:42:35,120 Speaker 2: So can you just explain it? 834 00:42:35,480 --> 00:42:38,520 Speaker 6: So basically, what's going on here? And we don't know 835 00:42:38,520 --> 00:42:40,360 Speaker 6: if that's this is exactly what's going on with this 836 00:42:40,480 --> 00:42:44,400 Speaker 6: kid yet because he's twenty four and so Boo Kelly 837 00:42:44,840 --> 00:42:49,520 Speaker 6: and MS thirteen struck a deal back around twenty nineteen 838 00:42:50,480 --> 00:42:56,000 Speaker 6: where bou Kelly would give better prison conditions to MS 839 00:42:56,080 --> 00:42:59,200 Speaker 6: thirteen members who were already locked up and other, you 840 00:42:59,239 --> 00:43:01,719 Speaker 6: know other. You can see this story that jose A 841 00:43:01,880 --> 00:43:07,000 Speaker 6: VARs and I wrote for Drop Site News, and in exchange, 842 00:43:07,160 --> 00:43:09,920 Speaker 6: they would stop killing and kidnapping people, and this is 843 00:43:10,000 --> 00:43:13,800 Speaker 6: not an uncommon tactic among South American or in Central 844 00:43:13,800 --> 00:43:18,040 Speaker 6: American presidents to FMLN had tried to do the same thing, 845 00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:20,279 Speaker 6: like back in twenty eleven or. 846 00:43:20,239 --> 00:43:20,879 Speaker 2: Something like that. 847 00:43:21,680 --> 00:43:23,879 Speaker 6: Part of the deal was that then MS thirteen would 848 00:43:23,920 --> 00:43:28,880 Speaker 6: support bou Kelly in his next election, and they did that, 849 00:43:28,920 --> 00:43:32,279 Speaker 6: and he woned a landslide, and then you saw this 850 00:43:32,400 --> 00:43:35,920 Speaker 6: kind of breakdown of the deal and he, you know, 851 00:43:35,960 --> 00:43:40,160 Speaker 6: he's become this much more aggressive, you know, anti gang dude, 852 00:43:40,560 --> 00:43:44,200 Speaker 6: and so he has he has denied up and down 853 00:43:44,239 --> 00:43:47,560 Speaker 6: that these negotiations ever took place, but the negotiations absolutely 854 00:43:47,600 --> 00:43:50,960 Speaker 6: did take place, and so there has been this push 855 00:43:51,000 --> 00:43:53,720 Speaker 6: and pull tug of war between the US and Bukelly. 856 00:43:53,760 --> 00:43:57,279 Speaker 6: Bu Kelly wants all of the MS thirteen members who 857 00:43:57,320 --> 00:44:01,160 Speaker 6: know about these negotiations in his dungeon. He does not 858 00:44:01,280 --> 00:44:04,240 Speaker 6: want them in open court in the United States talking 859 00:44:04,280 --> 00:44:09,600 Speaker 6: openly about the negotiations that they had with Bukelly, which 860 00:44:09,640 --> 00:44:12,919 Speaker 6: are a real lightning rod, a real political lightning rod. 861 00:44:12,960 --> 00:44:15,040 Speaker 6: In El Salvador, they wouldn't get attention here, but if 862 00:44:15,040 --> 00:44:17,240 Speaker 6: they had testifying court up here in the United States, 863 00:44:17,920 --> 00:44:19,680 Speaker 6: it would get a lot of coverage. In El Salvador, 864 00:44:19,880 --> 00:44:24,680 Speaker 6: and he generally has the media locked down. But if this, 865 00:44:25,000 --> 00:44:27,360 Speaker 6: you know, the media would cover something that happened in 866 00:44:27,360 --> 00:44:29,200 Speaker 6: a US courtroom in El Salvador. So this would be 867 00:44:29,239 --> 00:44:32,640 Speaker 6: a big problem for him. So that the price that 868 00:44:32,760 --> 00:44:37,480 Speaker 6: Bukelly demanded to take these venezuelans was, I also want 869 00:44:37,480 --> 00:44:39,440 Speaker 6: these MS thirteen guys that I've been trying to get 870 00:44:39,440 --> 00:44:41,759 Speaker 6: from you and that you've been keeping from me. And 871 00:44:41,800 --> 00:44:45,120 Speaker 6: so that's why we sent MS thirteen people along with 872 00:44:46,239 --> 00:44:49,560 Speaker 6: along with these venezuelans, so and what. And in order 873 00:44:49,600 --> 00:44:51,719 Speaker 6: to send them, they had to dismiss the charges, and 874 00:44:51,760 --> 00:44:53,759 Speaker 6: they did that with a bunch of them, you know, 875 00:44:53,800 --> 00:44:55,799 Speaker 6: back when they first sent them down. So that's what 876 00:44:55,880 --> 00:44:58,800 Speaker 6: this looks like. We don't know the details yet. He 877 00:44:58,800 --> 00:45:01,640 Speaker 6: would have been like eighteen when these negotiations were going on, 878 00:45:01,680 --> 00:45:07,239 Speaker 6: so maybe he has knowledge of the negotiations subsequent or 879 00:45:07,440 --> 00:45:10,759 Speaker 6: they just stitched up some random guy in Virginia and 880 00:45:11,040 --> 00:45:13,759 Speaker 6: the thing is all now falling apart. But that's the 881 00:45:13,760 --> 00:45:17,800 Speaker 6: backdrop that it could be part of this MS thirteen 882 00:45:17,880 --> 00:45:21,359 Speaker 6: leadership round up that Bukelly wants Trump to help him 883 00:45:21,360 --> 00:45:23,279 Speaker 6: effectuate and facilitate. 884 00:45:23,880 --> 00:45:25,840 Speaker 2: Interesting wow, crazy stuff. 885 00:45:27,040 --> 00:45:33,799 Speaker 1: Emily you're muted, you're mutiated, Emily not working. Okay, it's 886 00:45:33,840 --> 00:45:36,359 Speaker 1: all good. All right, Let's talk quickly here about mack 887 00:45:36,400 --> 00:45:38,920 Speaker 1: Mud Khalil, because this was important too. So you know, 888 00:45:38,960 --> 00:45:41,839 Speaker 1: the administration has made it pretty clear for a while that, 889 00:45:42,239 --> 00:45:44,960 Speaker 1: I mean, they have never said that Mackmud Khalil, who 890 00:45:44,960 --> 00:45:48,680 Speaker 1: of course was the Columbia student legal permanent resident Green 891 00:45:48,719 --> 00:45:52,680 Speaker 1: card holder who was arrested by Ice and shipped down 892 00:45:52,680 --> 00:45:55,120 Speaker 1: to was he Louisiana. I believe he was shipped down to. 893 00:45:55,719 --> 00:45:58,800 Speaker 1: And he was the real first big high profile case 894 00:45:58,840 --> 00:46:01,880 Speaker 1: of like, anyone who's anything about Israel that we didn't like, 895 00:46:02,080 --> 00:46:03,680 Speaker 1: we're going to round them up. If they're you know, 896 00:46:03,920 --> 00:46:06,760 Speaker 1: here on a visa or a Green card holder or whatever, 897 00:46:06,800 --> 00:46:08,479 Speaker 1: we're going to round them up, and we're going to 898 00:46:08,480 --> 00:46:10,279 Speaker 1: detain them and we're going to deport them. He was 899 00:46:10,320 --> 00:46:14,279 Speaker 1: the first big, high profile example of that. And the 900 00:46:14,320 --> 00:46:18,680 Speaker 1: administration has never argued that he committed any crimes, even 901 00:46:18,719 --> 00:46:22,920 Speaker 1: though many of their defenders have insinuated or insisted that 902 00:46:23,040 --> 00:46:25,359 Speaker 1: this was because of a legal activity, they have never 903 00:46:25,440 --> 00:46:28,280 Speaker 1: indicated that. And so the court has been asking them 904 00:46:28,640 --> 00:46:33,080 Speaker 1: to provide their evidence of why they believe that he 905 00:46:33,120 --> 00:46:38,600 Speaker 1: should be deported and effectively, you know they they so 906 00:46:38,840 --> 00:46:44,120 Speaker 1: the government files you know this, this submission, and there 907 00:46:44,200 --> 00:46:47,799 Speaker 1: is really no there there. I've got the key paragraph here, 908 00:46:48,640 --> 00:46:52,320 Speaker 1: he says, pursuant to these authorities, I've determined the activities 909 00:46:52,320 --> 00:46:54,400 Speaker 1: and presence of these aliens the US would have potentially 910 00:46:54,440 --> 00:46:58,040 Speaker 1: serious adverse foreign policy consequences, would compromise a compelling US 911 00:46:58,080 --> 00:47:02,320 Speaker 1: foreign policy interest. These determinations are based on information provided 912 00:47:02,320 --> 00:47:06,399 Speaker 1: by the DHS ice HSI regarding the participation and role 913 00:47:06,480 --> 00:47:09,560 Speaker 1: of someone else we don't know and Khalil in anti 914 00:47:09,560 --> 00:47:14,719 Speaker 1: Semitic protests and disruptive activities which foster a hostile environment 915 00:47:14,800 --> 00:47:18,520 Speaker 1: for Jewish students in the US. My determination for the 916 00:47:18,560 --> 00:47:21,680 Speaker 1: other person is also based on some other citations for 917 00:47:21,760 --> 00:47:25,080 Speaker 1: unlawful activity during these protests. But that's not Khalil, that's 918 00:47:25,120 --> 00:47:29,200 Speaker 1: this other person. They're claiming engagement unlawful activities. The public 919 00:47:29,280 --> 00:47:32,200 Speaker 1: actions and continued presence of these two in the US 920 00:47:32,360 --> 00:47:36,400 Speaker 1: undermine US policy to combat anti Semitism around the world 921 00:47:36,400 --> 00:47:38,600 Speaker 1: in the US, in addition to efforts to protect Jewish 922 00:47:38,600 --> 00:47:42,800 Speaker 1: students from harassment and violence in the United States. So literally, 923 00:47:42,840 --> 00:47:46,720 Speaker 1: the only thing that they cite here for Makmu Khalil 924 00:47:46,760 --> 00:47:51,080 Speaker 1: Sager is his participation in what they describe as anti 925 00:47:51,080 --> 00:47:53,600 Speaker 1: Semitic protests and disruptive activities. 926 00:47:54,040 --> 00:47:58,200 Speaker 2: Mm. Interesting, isn't It definitely also fits with our anti 927 00:47:58,200 --> 00:48:01,400 Speaker 2: Semitic screening that we're doing. Now, Ryan, I'm sure you 928 00:48:01,400 --> 00:48:04,200 Speaker 2: saw that story. Oh wait, do we have the ice thing? 929 00:48:04,520 --> 00:48:06,920 Speaker 2: I haven't gotten to react to this yet. The thing 930 00:48:06,960 --> 00:48:10,480 Speaker 2: about ideas ideas, Ryan, you talk while I pull it up. 931 00:48:10,920 --> 00:48:14,360 Speaker 2: Let me find that. No, Like, yeah, they they asked. 932 00:48:15,120 --> 00:48:16,839 Speaker 6: They were told they have to come up with some 933 00:48:16,880 --> 00:48:18,680 Speaker 6: evidence that he did something wrong. 934 00:48:18,719 --> 00:48:19,359 Speaker 2: What's your case? 935 00:48:19,440 --> 00:48:22,600 Speaker 6: Why is this permanent resident married to an American citizen 936 00:48:22,600 --> 00:48:25,799 Speaker 6: whose wife is about to give birth in like, in 937 00:48:25,800 --> 00:48:29,359 Speaker 6: indefinite detention without charge? And yeah, they they finally came 938 00:48:29,400 --> 00:48:32,920 Speaker 6: back with because Marco Rubio can lock up anybody who 939 00:48:32,920 --> 00:48:37,160 Speaker 6: he wants, who isn't a citizen for any reason. And 940 00:48:37,480 --> 00:48:39,200 Speaker 6: the reason that he's claiming. 941 00:48:38,960 --> 00:48:40,640 Speaker 2: Is that he's. 942 00:48:40,480 --> 00:48:45,520 Speaker 6: Anti Semitic, which is which is wild because you he 943 00:48:45,600 --> 00:48:48,480 Speaker 6: could bring if they actually wanted to try that, which 944 00:48:48,480 --> 00:48:52,480 Speaker 6: apparently they don't think they have to. He could bring countless. 945 00:48:52,480 --> 00:48:55,600 Speaker 6: It sounds like Jewish colleagues of his from Columbia, right, yeah, 946 00:48:55,600 --> 00:48:58,080 Speaker 6: to bet anti semitism. 947 00:48:59,120 --> 00:49:02,920 Speaker 1: Like attesting to his character. And you know he was 948 00:49:02,960 --> 00:49:05,359 Speaker 1: going to shop at dinners. He was fighting antisemit. When 949 00:49:05,360 --> 00:49:08,200 Speaker 1: there was somebody who did say something anti anti simitic, 950 00:49:08,280 --> 00:49:11,799 Speaker 1: he was the first to intervene. So pullar opposite of 951 00:49:11,840 --> 00:49:15,000 Speaker 1: the way that he's being portrayed, right, which just. 952 00:49:14,960 --> 00:49:19,040 Speaker 6: To argue, well, if you're critical of Israel, we we 953 00:49:19,280 --> 00:49:21,600 Speaker 6: we believe that that is anti semitism. 954 00:49:21,719 --> 00:49:24,680 Speaker 2: Bingo exactly. Let's so as you guys could see herround 955 00:49:24,680 --> 00:49:27,279 Speaker 2: the screen. This was a real thing that was put 956 00:49:27,280 --> 00:49:30,719 Speaker 2: out by Ice. Quote. If it crosses the border illegally, 957 00:49:30,840 --> 00:49:36,520 Speaker 2: it's our job to stop it. People, money products, Okay, okay, 958 00:49:36,640 --> 00:49:41,680 Speaker 2: I understand ideas. Hold on a second, what whoa whoa 959 00:49:41,680 --> 00:49:43,479 Speaker 2: whoa whoa whoa? 960 00:49:44,520 --> 00:49:47,239 Speaker 1: Right, we talked about that last one. 961 00:49:47,640 --> 00:49:51,880 Speaker 2: What was that last one? Ideas, Like, what does that 962 00:49:52,000 --> 00:49:57,400 Speaker 2: mean exactly if it crosses our border illegally? Ideas, how 963 00:49:57,440 --> 00:50:02,239 Speaker 2: does an idea illegally cross the s border? And now 964 00:50:02,239 --> 00:50:06,759 Speaker 2: we're entering some difficult, difficult territory, aren't we, Ryan, And 965 00:50:06,960 --> 00:50:09,560 Speaker 2: that's where the car. Yeah, in the trunk of our car, 966 00:50:09,800 --> 00:50:12,040 Speaker 2: I've got your shine, Bob. 967 00:50:12,640 --> 00:50:18,759 Speaker 1: Ideas, what's like the biggest apparently, Yeah, magic does this 968 00:50:18,840 --> 00:50:21,319 Speaker 1: woman have? Though for real, I don't know. We're all 969 00:50:21,360 --> 00:50:23,440 Speaker 1: referring to this Trump in the Oval office was like, 970 00:50:23,719 --> 00:50:26,759 Speaker 1: she's a fantastic woman. She's doing a great job. We 971 00:50:26,840 --> 00:50:29,560 Speaker 1: had a wonderful time. She has she's very dignified, she's. 972 00:50:29,400 --> 00:50:32,000 Speaker 2: Very elegant, very elegant. I think it probably just has 973 00:50:32,040 --> 00:50:34,080 Speaker 2: good Probably is just a good dipple match. Probably talks 974 00:50:34,080 --> 00:50:35,520 Speaker 2: to them while on the phone. I mean, honestly, I 975 00:50:35,560 --> 00:50:38,359 Speaker 2: can't really think of an alternative. But Emily, we're talking 976 00:50:38,440 --> 00:50:41,680 Speaker 2: about Ice saying that they want to stop dangerous ideas 977 00:50:41,719 --> 00:50:44,839 Speaker 2: from entering the country. We just put that graphic up 978 00:50:45,120 --> 00:50:46,600 Speaker 2: from yesterday, and you're just. 979 00:50:48,760 --> 00:50:50,800 Speaker 1: It's and that's the thing. It's like, it's the most 980 00:50:50,840 --> 00:50:54,239 Speaker 1: obvious point to make. But can you imagine if the 981 00:50:54,280 --> 00:50:58,560 Speaker 1: Biden Harris administration had done crazy half like you cannot 982 00:50:58,560 --> 00:51:00,560 Speaker 1: have but there would be such a mount on over it, 983 00:51:00,600 --> 00:51:04,440 Speaker 1: and understandably so, like it is truly Unamerican. It is 984 00:51:04,480 --> 00:51:08,240 Speaker 1: a truly Unamerican thing to say and position to hold. 985 00:51:08,520 --> 00:51:10,799 Speaker 1: And then the fact that you are clearly we also 986 00:51:10,920 --> 00:51:13,920 Speaker 1: just push put up the machmun Khalil court filing. That's 987 00:51:13,960 --> 00:51:15,560 Speaker 1: like h he was at a protest. That's why we're 988 00:51:15,560 --> 00:51:19,239 Speaker 1: going to deport him. No allegations of illegality. No, even 989 00:51:19,280 --> 00:51:21,200 Speaker 1: I thought they'd come up with something he said that 990 00:51:21,320 --> 00:51:23,480 Speaker 1: was a little edgy, you know, that they could put 991 00:51:23,520 --> 00:51:24,560 Speaker 1: in the butt. No, none of that. 992 00:51:24,800 --> 00:51:26,840 Speaker 2: Just like he was, they even put like people from 993 00:51:26,880 --> 00:51:28,880 Speaker 2: the river to the sea. They didn't even be like 994 00:51:28,960 --> 00:51:32,000 Speaker 2: the well known anti Semitic phrase from the river to 995 00:51:32,040 --> 00:51:32,520 Speaker 2: the sea. 996 00:51:32,560 --> 00:51:33,759 Speaker 5: Well that is their definition. 997 00:51:33,880 --> 00:51:36,560 Speaker 4: Well, I mean it said like even by their own definition, right, 998 00:51:36,600 --> 00:51:39,960 Speaker 4: so they've accepted that definition. So they haven't even used 999 00:51:40,040 --> 00:51:42,719 Speaker 4: that successfully to I mean, it's just. 1000 00:51:44,040 --> 00:51:45,120 Speaker 5: The ideas thing. 1001 00:51:45,320 --> 00:51:47,080 Speaker 4: If you flip it around and you see the Biden 1002 00:51:47,160 --> 00:51:51,840 Speaker 4: administration coming in and using this on Christians or people 1003 00:51:51,880 --> 00:51:54,400 Speaker 4: who are opposed like turfs. 1004 00:51:54,840 --> 00:51:57,319 Speaker 5: I mean, it's just like the possibilities are endless. The 1005 00:51:57,440 --> 00:51:59,879 Speaker 5: mind boggles, but they do need work. 1006 00:52:00,480 --> 00:52:02,680 Speaker 2: We need more turfs. Oh, by all means I call 1007 00:52:02,760 --> 00:52:04,359 Speaker 2: for more turf, but I mean. 1008 00:52:04,280 --> 00:52:05,359 Speaker 5: That this is so. 1009 00:52:05,560 --> 00:52:08,080 Speaker 4: When I was I was reading through the document that 1010 00:52:08,120 --> 00:52:10,239 Speaker 4: they submitted an evidence, the Rubio memo, I was just like, 1011 00:52:11,280 --> 00:52:15,360 Speaker 4: it's so it's not surprising, but they really do have nothing. 1012 00:52:16,120 --> 00:52:19,880 Speaker 1: Well, and Ryan, they had said some something maybe Pam Bondie, 1013 00:52:19,960 --> 00:52:22,480 Speaker 1: I don't remember. One of these people said that the 1014 00:52:22,560 --> 00:52:26,000 Speaker 1: reason he was being deported was because he aligned with Hamas. 1015 00:52:26,239 --> 00:52:28,480 Speaker 1: This document doesn't even mention Hamas, right. 1016 00:52:28,360 --> 00:52:31,839 Speaker 4: No, good point the DHS spokeswoman, Yeah, Tricia McLaughlin who 1017 00:52:31,880 --> 00:52:32,480 Speaker 4: said that. 1018 00:52:32,480 --> 00:52:35,960 Speaker 6: Right, They can't even prove that. 1019 00:52:35,200 --> 00:52:35,759 Speaker 5: That's what I was. 1020 00:52:35,800 --> 00:52:38,279 Speaker 2: Funny, you know where Tricia came from. She used to 1021 00:52:38,320 --> 00:52:41,239 Speaker 2: work for a vague mister ideas and mister debate. I'm 1022 00:52:41,239 --> 00:52:43,359 Speaker 2: just saying, you know, some of us, some of us 1023 00:52:43,480 --> 00:52:47,000 Speaker 2: remember things these are. It's a curse to actually remember 1024 00:52:47,040 --> 00:52:48,920 Speaker 2: anything in this business and just be like, what the 1025 00:52:49,600 --> 00:52:50,840 Speaker 2: talking you imagine? 1026 00:52:50,960 --> 00:52:51,600 Speaker 8: Mix up? 1027 00:52:52,120 --> 00:52:55,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like he went from that to uh, miss idea, 1028 00:52:55,280 --> 00:52:58,719 Speaker 2: mister we need to ban ideas? And well, can I 1029 00:52:58,760 --> 00:53:01,600 Speaker 2: such a great point, Crystal about the Hamas. Thing is 1030 00:53:01,680 --> 00:53:03,840 Speaker 2: they didn't even mention that. They just said he was 1031 00:53:03,880 --> 00:53:06,279 Speaker 2: anti Semitic. Go ahead, Emily, Well no, but. 1032 00:53:06,239 --> 00:53:09,440 Speaker 4: That's why this is also frustrating because christ So, do 1033 00:53:09,520 --> 00:53:12,960 Speaker 4: you remember we interviewed Mama du Taal on the show. 1034 00:53:13,440 --> 00:53:14,839 Speaker 5: Back in Well. 1035 00:53:14,960 --> 00:53:18,800 Speaker 4: His case is interesting because after he had gotten his visa, 1036 00:53:18,960 --> 00:53:22,280 Speaker 4: he had been tweeting things about how the US Empire 1037 00:53:22,320 --> 00:53:24,160 Speaker 4: he hates the US Empire. His goal in life is 1038 00:53:24,160 --> 00:53:26,840 Speaker 4: bringing down the US Empire. And he's like the one 1039 00:53:27,160 --> 00:53:30,320 Speaker 4: person from all of these cases like oz Turk for example, 1040 00:53:30,320 --> 00:53:32,759 Speaker 4: and op Ed. He's the one person from all these 1041 00:53:32,800 --> 00:53:35,760 Speaker 4: cases where like granted he'd said all of that after 1042 00:53:35,800 --> 00:53:37,640 Speaker 4: he got the visa up. I was like, could you 1043 00:53:37,680 --> 00:53:40,160 Speaker 4: have sussed that out in your interviews with him? Like 1044 00:53:40,200 --> 00:53:42,920 Speaker 4: did you know that he wasn't super pro America when 1045 00:53:42,960 --> 00:53:45,920 Speaker 4: you've said, here's a student visa, Like there are arguments 1046 00:53:46,200 --> 00:53:50,000 Speaker 4: that would be within the realm of like reasonable debate, 1047 00:53:50,160 --> 00:53:53,279 Speaker 4: and these are not them. These are like insane examples 1048 00:53:53,320 --> 00:53:55,879 Speaker 4: of op eds and trying to tie him to these 1049 00:53:55,880 --> 00:53:58,480 Speaker 4: posters that were handed out at protests, trying to tie 1050 00:53:58,560 --> 00:54:01,960 Speaker 4: him to protests that got like violent. 1051 00:54:02,400 --> 00:54:03,640 Speaker 5: He was he wasn't there. 1052 00:54:04,800 --> 00:54:10,120 Speaker 1: It wasn't wasn't with Khalil. Wasn't there also an allegation 1053 00:54:10,520 --> 00:54:13,600 Speaker 1: that he had lied on his green card application or 1054 00:54:13,600 --> 00:54:16,480 Speaker 1: something like that. He admitted that's not here either. 1055 00:54:17,000 --> 00:54:18,279 Speaker 5: Yeah, he admitted that there. 1056 00:54:18,200 --> 00:54:21,759 Speaker 2: Was something about for the I thought it was the 1057 00:54:21,880 --> 00:54:22,680 Speaker 2: U n like Unra. 1058 00:54:23,320 --> 00:54:26,640 Speaker 5: I thought it was the UK embassy. 1059 00:54:25,760 --> 00:54:28,080 Speaker 6: Because he had a joint job, like he had a 1060 00:54:28,400 --> 00:54:31,799 Speaker 6: UK security clearance while he was working for unra mm hm, 1061 00:54:32,360 --> 00:54:36,400 Speaker 6: which like I can't imagine why, like working for the 1062 00:54:36,480 --> 00:54:40,560 Speaker 6: UK would be disqualifying for an America like somebody applying 1063 00:54:40,600 --> 00:54:42,720 Speaker 6: for as the something. 1064 00:54:44,000 --> 00:54:46,120 Speaker 2: Maybe he's a spook. What if he's a spook. 1065 00:54:46,360 --> 00:54:49,000 Speaker 6: But he's a he's a there's a British spy is 1066 00:54:49,040 --> 00:54:49,760 Speaker 6: double O seven? 1067 00:54:50,360 --> 00:54:53,799 Speaker 1: Yes, they should put that in the application for his 1068 00:54:53,960 --> 00:54:57,040 Speaker 1: you know why he should be But it was wait, 1069 00:54:57,160 --> 00:54:59,920 Speaker 1: it was thinner. I knew it would be thin because right, 1070 00:55:00,200 --> 00:55:02,160 Speaker 1: the right has been digging through everything this man has 1071 00:55:02,200 --> 00:55:03,960 Speaker 1: ever said to try to come up with something to 1072 00:55:04,000 --> 00:55:07,200 Speaker 1: paint him. It's like always an anti Semitic, terrorist, loving monster, 1073 00:55:07,320 --> 00:55:09,440 Speaker 1: and they came up with nothing. So I knew it 1074 00:55:09,480 --> 00:55:12,240 Speaker 1: would be thin. This was thinner even than I expected, 1075 00:55:12,280 --> 00:55:14,120 Speaker 1: because I thought they'd have the thing in there. Oh 1076 00:55:14,160 --> 00:55:16,319 Speaker 1: he was lying on his application and know he said 1077 00:55:16,320 --> 00:55:18,080 Speaker 1: from the River to the Sea, and oh, here's a 1078 00:55:18,120 --> 00:55:21,359 Speaker 1: Hummus pamphlet. Remember Caroline Levitt did that whole thing. Of course, 1079 00:55:21,840 --> 00:55:25,439 Speaker 1: I can't even bring that literature into the briefing room 1080 00:55:25,440 --> 00:55:33,759 Speaker 1: because it was horrible. That was now, yeah, for sure, 1081 00:55:34,280 --> 00:55:37,840 Speaker 1: the horrible literature that we you know, can't even like 1082 00:55:37,920 --> 00:55:39,400 Speaker 1: the innocence of the American people. 1083 00:55:39,600 --> 00:55:40,880 Speaker 2: We saw. 1084 00:55:43,360 --> 00:55:43,440 Speaker 4: Men. 1085 00:55:45,960 --> 00:55:47,000 Speaker 1: It's a delicate flower. 1086 00:55:47,000 --> 00:55:49,000 Speaker 2: I actually wanted to see it. I was like, yeah, 1087 00:55:49,040 --> 00:55:52,879 Speaker 2: you know, it'd be great. Actually I was. But yeah, 1088 00:55:52,880 --> 00:55:54,279 Speaker 2: that's all right, that's what that's what I need my 1089 00:55:54,320 --> 00:55:58,200 Speaker 2: government for. We moved to Dave Smith. You talk about 1090 00:55:58,239 --> 00:56:01,080 Speaker 2: Dave Okay, I got ready to lips. So what do 1091 00:56:01,080 --> 00:56:02,360 Speaker 2: you guys want to start with? Do you want to 1092 00:56:02,400 --> 00:56:04,920 Speaker 2: start with his lived experience thing about how you have 1093 00:56:04,960 --> 00:56:06,480 Speaker 2: to be able to have been to Israel? 1094 00:56:06,920 --> 00:56:07,240 Speaker 5: Yeah? 1095 00:56:07,280 --> 00:56:08,880 Speaker 2: Before you talk about okay. 1096 00:56:09,600 --> 00:56:11,839 Speaker 4: Can we just say, though, at off the top here, 1097 00:56:11,880 --> 00:56:14,880 Speaker 4: that what happened in this conversation is that Douglas Murray, 1098 00:56:14,880 --> 00:56:19,320 Speaker 4: who probably was under enormous pressure from pro Israel folks 1099 00:56:19,360 --> 00:56:22,239 Speaker 4: and people who are pro Ukraine and neo conservatives, just 1100 00:56:22,280 --> 00:56:24,560 Speaker 4: stand up to Joe Rogan. He starts the interview by 1101 00:56:24,600 --> 00:56:26,840 Speaker 4: asking Joe Rogan if he can ask him a question 1102 00:56:27,080 --> 00:56:29,440 Speaker 4: about why he doesn't so, I just it's sort of 1103 00:56:29,480 --> 00:56:32,800 Speaker 4: like the Oval Office meeting. That is genuinely important context 1104 00:56:32,880 --> 00:56:35,160 Speaker 4: for this three hour conversation is that it started with 1105 00:56:35,239 --> 00:56:38,640 Speaker 4: Douglas Murray challenging Joe Rogan about why he has he 1106 00:56:38,800 --> 00:56:40,319 Speaker 4: had Carroll. 1107 00:56:40,320 --> 00:56:44,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, he coming into this. He's mad at Joe. 1108 00:56:44,320 --> 00:56:47,359 Speaker 2: He's snippy and he's or what what did Trump say? Yippy? Yep, 1109 00:56:47,520 --> 00:56:51,080 Speaker 2: he's yippy at Joe for quote not having enough pro 1110 00:56:51,200 --> 00:56:54,600 Speaker 2: Israel or pro Ukraine folks on the show, which by 1111 00:56:54,640 --> 00:56:56,680 Speaker 2: the way, is not even true. They're just a lot. 1112 00:56:56,719 --> 00:56:59,719 Speaker 4: He didn't even know some of the guests. Yeah, Joe 1113 00:56:59,760 --> 00:57:01,920 Speaker 4: tick off all these guys. He's like, I think God's sad. 1114 00:57:02,040 --> 00:57:05,360 Speaker 2: He says, I've had pro Israel folks and you know 1115 00:57:05,480 --> 00:57:07,600 Speaker 2: this one guy and I can't remember his name. And 1116 00:57:07,640 --> 00:57:09,080 Speaker 2: you're like, oh, if you can't even remember the name 1117 00:57:09,120 --> 00:57:12,120 Speaker 2: of the guy, you're calling anti Semitic. But okay, well anyway, 1118 00:57:12,160 --> 00:57:14,640 Speaker 2: So what he does in the beginning is he first 1119 00:57:14,640 --> 00:57:17,439 Speaker 2: of all, starts off with chastising Rogan for not having 1120 00:57:17,560 --> 00:57:20,760 Speaker 2: enough pro pro you folks would. 1121 00:57:20,960 --> 00:57:24,080 Speaker 1: Preposterous so much if a guest came on our show 1122 00:57:24,160 --> 00:57:26,960 Speaker 1: and was like, actually, I think here's how you should 1123 00:57:26,960 --> 00:57:29,200 Speaker 1: produce your show, here's how you should do your job, 1124 00:57:29,440 --> 00:57:32,600 Speaker 1: Like there is no worse way to start a conversation 1125 00:57:32,800 --> 00:57:33,760 Speaker 1: with with anyone. 1126 00:57:34,520 --> 00:57:38,120 Speaker 4: Let's start with that of hosting. I Carrol like he 1127 00:57:38,320 --> 00:57:41,440 Speaker 4: just had no relationship and was a little bit. 1128 00:57:41,640 --> 00:57:43,320 Speaker 5: It was a little bit off. I thought Joe handled 1129 00:57:43,320 --> 00:57:44,720 Speaker 5: it really well and it turned into a. 1130 00:57:44,640 --> 00:57:48,160 Speaker 2: Pretesting DISCUSSI Joe really held as cool. And I will 1131 00:57:48,200 --> 00:57:52,800 Speaker 2: say that Douglas is one of the smarmiest people I've 1132 00:57:52,840 --> 00:57:55,360 Speaker 2: ever seen on this because he spends the entire thing 1133 00:57:55,760 --> 00:57:59,720 Speaker 2: trying to but he tries to attack Smith's character, basically 1134 00:58:00,080 --> 00:58:03,080 Speaker 2: lies that Dave Smith is doing this for views or 1135 00:58:03,120 --> 00:58:06,160 Speaker 2: for clicks. Ridiculous. Dave has been in this business for 1136 00:58:06,360 --> 00:58:08,680 Speaker 2: a long time. Dave's most viral moment is not even 1137 00:58:08,720 --> 00:58:11,240 Speaker 2: anything to do with Israel. It's about vaccines from five 1138 00:58:11,320 --> 00:58:14,760 Speaker 2: years ago. Not that Douglas would know anything about any 1139 00:58:14,800 --> 00:58:19,560 Speaker 2: of that, but he's like, oh, Dave, your shtick is Israel, right, 1140 00:58:19,680 --> 00:58:23,439 Speaker 2: like implying that he's doing this for career purposes. Someone 1141 00:58:23,480 --> 00:58:25,640 Speaker 2: should tell me that because I don't remember my career 1142 00:58:25,640 --> 00:58:29,720 Speaker 2: between all that well because of any Israel criticism. In fact, 1143 00:58:29,720 --> 00:58:32,640 Speaker 2: it's the opposite of mister Murray, who went from you know, 1144 00:58:32,720 --> 00:58:36,880 Speaker 2: this flitting about neo conservative has been to you know, 1145 00:58:37,320 --> 00:58:40,640 Speaker 2: a little flack jacket tour vests all over Israel and 1146 00:58:40,760 --> 00:58:45,560 Speaker 2: so protectionization, right, that's the context is the concern trolling 1147 00:58:45,880 --> 00:58:48,240 Speaker 2: about quote expertise, and we'll get to that. But the 1148 00:58:48,360 --> 00:58:51,080 Speaker 2: really the best part was this where he tries to 1149 00:58:51,200 --> 00:58:54,320 Speaker 2: use a literal, woke style argument of if you've never 1150 00:58:54,400 --> 00:58:57,480 Speaker 2: been to Israel, then you're not allowed to talk about it. 1151 00:58:57,600 --> 00:59:01,000 Speaker 2: Dave handled himself incredibly well, in my opinion, in this 1152 00:59:01,040 --> 00:59:03,160 Speaker 2: back and forth. So let's go ahead and take a 1153 00:59:03,160 --> 00:59:03,800 Speaker 2: listen to. 1154 00:59:03,720 --> 00:59:07,240 Speaker 3: Some of it with no deficit of goods coming in. 1155 00:59:07,320 --> 00:59:11,880 Speaker 3: I've been plenty of No there, there are plenty. How 1156 00:59:12,400 --> 00:59:16,800 Speaker 3: have you been to the crossing points? When we ask 1157 00:59:16,840 --> 00:59:20,800 Speaker 3: there at all, I've never been. You've never been? 1158 00:59:21,960 --> 00:59:23,720 Speaker 9: Well, I'm not am I not allowed to talk about it? 1159 00:59:23,720 --> 00:59:23,919 Speaker 2: Now? 1160 00:59:24,600 --> 00:59:25,840 Speaker 9: Have you ever been to? Have you ever been to 1161 00:59:25,960 --> 00:59:29,360 Speaker 9: Nazi Germany? Are you allowed to have? You can't time travel, 1162 00:59:29,360 --> 00:59:32,960 Speaker 9: but you can't? Okay, but so what, so what's the point? Like, No, 1163 00:59:33,120 --> 00:59:35,120 Speaker 9: I find that lots of people have been there and 1164 00:59:35,160 --> 00:59:36,640 Speaker 9: agree with me, and lots of people have been there 1165 00:59:36,640 --> 00:59:37,200 Speaker 9: and agree with you. 1166 00:59:37,480 --> 00:59:38,959 Speaker 3: I don't want to spend a year and a half 1167 00:59:39,000 --> 00:59:41,000 Speaker 3: talking about about a place you should at least do 1168 00:59:41,080 --> 00:59:43,200 Speaker 3: the courtesy of visiting it, all right. 1169 00:59:43,920 --> 00:59:47,280 Speaker 9: I just think this is a non argument. Okay, No, 1170 00:59:47,520 --> 00:59:49,760 Speaker 9: I think it's a non argument. But you have to 1171 00:59:49,760 --> 00:59:52,120 Speaker 9: go and touch the ground. I think you have to see. 1172 00:59:52,120 --> 00:59:54,280 Speaker 3: I think it's a good idea to see stuff, particularly 1173 00:59:54,320 --> 00:59:58,160 Speaker 3: if you spend a career talking about something. Yes, I 1174 00:59:58,600 --> 01:00:01,120 Speaker 3: have a journalistic rule of try never to talk about 1175 01:00:01,120 --> 01:00:04,520 Speaker 3: a country, even in passing, unless I've at least been there. Okay, 1176 01:00:04,760 --> 01:00:08,720 Speaker 3: it's normal, it's a normal thing to do. You're talking 1177 01:00:08,800 --> 01:00:12,280 Speaker 3: about Hang on, you're talking about crossing points, and not 1178 01:00:12,320 --> 01:00:14,120 Speaker 3: only have you never been to a crossing point in 1179 01:00:14,160 --> 01:00:16,240 Speaker 3: either Egypt or in Israel, but you never even been 1180 01:00:16,280 --> 01:00:21,400 Speaker 3: to the region. Okay, it's not a non ars is. 1181 01:00:21,920 --> 01:00:25,040 Speaker 3: It's not a non argument if you're insisting that you're 1182 01:00:25,080 --> 01:00:29,080 Speaker 3: an expert of some kind or not claiming you're an expert, 1183 01:00:29,120 --> 01:00:32,480 Speaker 3: but still talking about it, about the provisions going into 1184 01:00:32,520 --> 01:00:35,840 Speaker 3: Gaza or not. If you've never seen any of this 1185 01:00:36,080 --> 01:00:37,320 Speaker 3: going on, so. 1186 01:00:37,240 --> 01:00:39,600 Speaker 9: You're not amazing about things that you've read about. You 1187 01:00:40,000 --> 01:00:41,920 Speaker 9: can only speak about things that you've seen with your 1188 01:00:41,960 --> 01:00:45,560 Speaker 9: own eyes. You can talk about what you want as 1189 01:00:45,600 --> 01:00:46,160 Speaker 9: you're proving. 1190 01:00:47,440 --> 01:00:51,240 Speaker 3: But that is a different matter from spending an awfully 1191 01:00:51,440 --> 01:00:57,680 Speaker 3: long amount of time talking about an issue in a 1192 01:00:57,800 --> 01:01:01,040 Speaker 3: region you haven't even had the to see the visit. 1193 01:01:02,000 --> 01:01:02,200 Speaker 4: Well. 1194 01:01:02,920 --> 01:01:08,320 Speaker 3: Developing all of these views about it. I mean an 1195 01:01:08,360 --> 01:01:12,480 Speaker 3: idea where you're coming from. You've read about this blockade, 1196 01:01:13,520 --> 01:01:16,720 Speaker 3: and so you imagine that that's what it is. I imagine 1197 01:01:16,640 --> 01:01:19,360 Speaker 3: you've read all the people who say that Gaza was 1198 01:01:19,400 --> 01:01:20,720 Speaker 3: a concentration camp. 1199 01:01:21,080 --> 01:01:23,200 Speaker 2: All right, we can call it there. This This is 1200 01:01:23,240 --> 01:01:28,320 Speaker 2: the dumbest form of argumentation. And there's there's a layer 1201 01:01:28,360 --> 01:01:30,240 Speaker 2: to this too. I actually texted this to Dave and 1202 01:01:30,280 --> 01:01:34,240 Speaker 2: I was like, I kind of wish you'd said this, Douglas. Yeah, 1203 01:01:34,280 --> 01:01:36,360 Speaker 2: I just want to be like, hey, Douglas, why do 1204 01:01:36,480 --> 01:01:38,680 Speaker 2: you think you got to go to the crossing points? 1205 01:01:38,800 --> 01:01:42,440 Speaker 2: My guy? Is it because you're on an ISRAELI bebe 1206 01:01:42,600 --> 01:01:45,560 Speaker 2: sponsored tour to go in to see this so that 1207 01:01:45,640 --> 01:01:47,920 Speaker 2: you go on the biggest platform in the world and 1208 01:01:47,960 --> 01:01:51,400 Speaker 2: say everything is fine. Why don't we call Ryan, Why 1209 01:01:51,440 --> 01:01:54,360 Speaker 2: don't you enlighten me and call as you have, some 1210 01:01:54,400 --> 01:01:57,040 Speaker 2: of the people who live there and tell me what 1211 01:01:57,160 --> 01:01:59,920 Speaker 2: they have to say who are not members of Go ahead, Ryan, 1212 01:02:00,080 --> 01:02:01,480 Speaker 2: tell me what the people who were on the other 1213 01:02:01,520 --> 01:02:03,000 Speaker 2: side of that crossing point have to say. 1214 01:02:03,440 --> 01:02:05,560 Speaker 6: They say they can't find food. Oh okay, and he 1215 01:02:05,640 --> 01:02:07,880 Speaker 6: got it, and they have phone numbers. Has has he 1216 01:02:07,920 --> 01:02:08,600 Speaker 6: spoken to them. 1217 01:02:08,680 --> 01:02:10,600 Speaker 2: Has he have you ever been to Gaza, Douglas, have 1218 01:02:10,640 --> 01:02:14,680 Speaker 2: you ever been to Gaza? He shouldn't say anything about. 1219 01:02:15,960 --> 01:02:18,959 Speaker 6: They blocked on March second, they said we're not letting 1220 01:02:19,000 --> 01:02:19,480 Speaker 6: any AID in. 1221 01:02:19,520 --> 01:02:20,480 Speaker 2: They said it publicly. 1222 01:02:20,960 --> 01:02:23,160 Speaker 6: Why does God Dave Smith need to go fact check 1223 01:02:23,240 --> 01:02:27,760 Speaker 6: the claims by the Israeli government and the Palestinians on 1224 01:02:27,800 --> 01:02:30,720 Speaker 6: the other side confirmed it. We have both sides saying 1225 01:02:30,960 --> 01:02:32,040 Speaker 6: we're not letting AID in. 1226 01:02:33,000 --> 01:02:42,440 Speaker 1: But if Dave doesn't weird, go ahead, grissol. It does 1227 01:02:42,480 --> 01:02:46,160 Speaker 1: remind me so much of like it truly is like 1228 01:02:46,200 --> 01:02:50,240 Speaker 1: a very woke reminiscent argument because one of the things 1229 01:02:50,280 --> 01:02:54,560 Speaker 1: the tactics that is used to shut down debate is like, well, 1230 01:02:54,600 --> 01:02:57,840 Speaker 1: if you're not a member of that marginalized group, you 1231 01:02:57,880 --> 01:03:02,000 Speaker 1: can't speak on issues related to that marginalized group. And 1232 01:03:02,080 --> 01:03:04,120 Speaker 1: I'm not going to say that there's nothing too like 1233 01:03:04,320 --> 01:03:08,040 Speaker 1: hearing someone's quote unquote lived experience, but that is a 1234 01:03:08,080 --> 01:03:11,040 Speaker 1: common tactic to just say you're not allowed to have 1235 01:03:11,080 --> 01:03:13,439 Speaker 1: a say at all. Don't care what you've read, don't 1236 01:03:13,480 --> 01:03:16,560 Speaker 1: care what your opinion is, what your moral compasses, don't 1237 01:03:16,560 --> 01:03:20,919 Speaker 1: care if you don't have these particular characteristics you don't 1238 01:03:20,920 --> 01:03:23,680 Speaker 1: get to weigh in. I've always objected to that, whether 1239 01:03:23,680 --> 01:03:25,960 Speaker 1: it was on the woke side, and it's the exact 1240 01:03:26,000 --> 01:03:29,880 Speaker 1: same thing here. It's also very like, you know, I 1241 01:03:30,280 --> 01:03:33,520 Speaker 1: don't know if he's all if he's always debated this way, 1242 01:03:33,560 --> 01:03:37,400 Speaker 1: but it's a very Puresborgan panel debate tactic to just 1243 01:03:37,480 --> 01:03:40,000 Speaker 1: they spend so much time just like attacking each other's character. 1244 01:03:40,120 --> 01:03:42,720 Speaker 1: You're a racist, you're an anti semi, you haven't even 1245 01:03:42,760 --> 01:03:45,200 Speaker 1: been there, and you know, it's the type of thing 1246 01:03:45,720 --> 01:03:48,560 Speaker 1: that can play well in that format when you just 1247 01:03:48,640 --> 01:03:52,760 Speaker 1: have like fifteen minutes of yelling to filibuster and try 1248 01:03:52,800 --> 01:03:55,400 Speaker 1: to like out alpha the people on the panel, But 1249 01:03:55,480 --> 01:03:58,680 Speaker 1: when you actually have to sit there and explain yourself 1250 01:03:58,840 --> 01:04:02,040 Speaker 1: for hours on end, and everyone gets a chance to 1251 01:04:02,040 --> 01:04:04,440 Speaker 1: see Dave be like, this is a non argument, what 1252 01:04:04,440 --> 01:04:06,800 Speaker 1: are you talking about? It doesn't quite hit the same 1253 01:04:06,840 --> 01:04:10,120 Speaker 1: way as when you're just on some like Piers Morgan yellfest. 1254 01:04:10,960 --> 01:04:14,040 Speaker 4: Well that's really interesting because they actually started the entire 1255 01:04:14,120 --> 01:04:16,920 Speaker 4: podcast by Joe saying, the reason we wanted to do 1256 01:04:16,960 --> 01:04:19,600 Speaker 4: this is because so many of these debates are held 1257 01:04:19,640 --> 01:04:23,600 Speaker 4: on shows like Piers Morgan, and basically it's so theatrical 1258 01:04:24,520 --> 01:04:30,400 Speaker 4: and it's actually somewhat so it's expert it's just this 1259 01:04:30,480 --> 01:04:35,320 Speaker 4: deification of expertise, which is very disappointing from Douglas Murray, 1260 01:04:35,400 --> 01:04:40,200 Speaker 4: by the way, who on wokeness, on media corruption, all 1261 01:04:40,200 --> 01:04:43,320 Speaker 4: of that. He actually was with Tayibi side by side 1262 01:04:43,440 --> 01:04:48,840 Speaker 4: in an Intelligent Square debate against Malcolm Gladwell and Ryan 1263 01:04:49,120 --> 01:04:50,840 Speaker 4: Calmness in New York Times. 1264 01:04:50,760 --> 01:04:54,600 Speaker 5: Michelle Goldberg and wiped the floor with. 1265 01:04:54,600 --> 01:04:58,240 Speaker 4: Malcolm Gladwell and Michelle Goldberg and Douglas Murray did some 1266 01:04:58,280 --> 01:05:02,720 Speaker 4: heavy lifting in abs excoriating the corporate media. 1267 01:05:02,480 --> 01:05:03,480 Speaker 5: And its corruption. 1268 01:05:04,080 --> 01:05:08,960 Speaker 4: And here he's flipping around and saying that because Dave 1269 01:05:09,080 --> 01:05:12,480 Speaker 4: lacks expertise. My favorite moment of this entire conversation is 1270 01:05:12,520 --> 01:05:14,040 Speaker 4: when Dave goes, I'm a free American. 1271 01:05:14,080 --> 01:05:15,200 Speaker 5: I can say whatever I want. 1272 01:05:15,240 --> 01:05:17,480 Speaker 4: And I just was like felt like wrapped in the 1273 01:05:17,520 --> 01:05:20,960 Speaker 4: American flag was going to like shotgun a. Miller lte 1274 01:05:20,960 --> 01:05:25,040 Speaker 4: when he said that it was glorious, because that's his point. 1275 01:05:25,080 --> 01:05:27,960 Speaker 4: His point is that the audience is smart enough to 1276 01:05:28,080 --> 01:05:30,480 Speaker 4: make up their own minds if they are listening to 1277 01:05:30,520 --> 01:05:34,440 Speaker 4: a comedian who's really interested in history or a you know, 1278 01:05:34,600 --> 01:05:38,000 Speaker 4: ex military guy who's really interested in history do thirty 1279 01:05:38,000 --> 01:05:41,600 Speaker 4: hours of a podcast. The audience is smart enough to 1280 01:05:41,720 --> 01:05:44,880 Speaker 4: make up their minds to do additional research. They don't 1281 01:05:44,920 --> 01:05:48,960 Speaker 4: need to be protected by expert gatekeepers in every situation. 1282 01:05:49,200 --> 01:05:52,960 Speaker 4: And it's just I found it very unfortunate to see 1283 01:05:53,000 --> 01:05:53,760 Speaker 4: that flipped again. 1284 01:05:54,360 --> 01:05:58,840 Speaker 1: It's also very selective because it's not enough. So he's 1285 01:05:58,880 --> 01:06:02,960 Speaker 1: decided Dave Smith's not expert. But he's also decided that 1286 01:06:03,080 --> 01:06:06,040 Speaker 1: is not sufficient for Dave Smith to read experts. 1287 01:06:06,360 --> 01:06:08,160 Speaker 2: Yes, exactly have studied this. 1288 01:06:08,320 --> 01:06:12,040 Speaker 1: Been to the region, et cetera. So it's, you know, 1289 01:06:12,320 --> 01:06:16,600 Speaker 1: it's all very selective and very convenient when you get 1290 01:06:16,600 --> 01:06:21,360 Speaker 1: to be the expert. What when the expert opinion matters 1291 01:06:21,400 --> 01:06:24,120 Speaker 1: and can factor in and when it doesn't in his view. 1292 01:06:24,600 --> 01:06:27,320 Speaker 2: Yes, this is the expertise part of whist which drive 1293 01:06:27,880 --> 01:06:30,400 Speaker 2: drove me crazy. And so there's a specific, you know 1294 01:06:30,520 --> 01:06:32,400 Speaker 2: part of this. Let's take a listen to that. 1295 01:06:33,200 --> 01:06:36,520 Speaker 10: Do also think that one of the bigger kind of 1296 01:06:36,520 --> 01:06:39,880 Speaker 10: the bigger picture dynamics to all of this is that 1297 01:06:40,400 --> 01:06:44,520 Speaker 10: we have at least since nine to eleven, been in 1298 01:06:44,560 --> 01:06:48,240 Speaker 10: a state of perpetual war, and all of these wars 1299 01:06:48,520 --> 01:06:53,160 Speaker 10: have been disasters. They have been so many lies involved 1300 01:06:53,160 --> 01:06:56,600 Speaker 10: in selling all of them. I mean, the whole Iraq war, 1301 01:06:56,720 --> 01:06:59,840 Speaker 10: the whole war in Afghanistan, lying the whole way through. 1302 01:07:00,080 --> 01:07:03,280 Speaker 10: I mean I remember literally having conversations with green Brays 1303 01:07:03,320 --> 01:07:05,800 Speaker 10: in the middle of the war in Afghanistan, and they're like, 1304 01:07:06,240 --> 01:07:08,520 Speaker 10: George W. Bush is telling you that the army we're 1305 01:07:08,520 --> 01:07:11,040 Speaker 10: building up there is really successful. This thing's going to 1306 01:07:11,120 --> 01:07:13,520 Speaker 10: fall in a week without us. And then all through 1307 01:07:13,520 --> 01:07:16,320 Speaker 10: the Obama administration it's just like lie after lie after 1308 01:07:16,400 --> 01:07:19,600 Speaker 10: lie with disastrous wars. And so this does create a 1309 01:07:19,640 --> 01:07:22,440 Speaker 10: fertile ground for people to say I wonder if they 1310 01:07:22,480 --> 01:07:24,440 Speaker 10: were lying about all these wars. Sure, again, I'm not 1311 01:07:24,480 --> 01:07:26,160 Speaker 10: really trying to argue about World War Two. 1312 01:07:26,160 --> 01:07:27,439 Speaker 5: I'd rather argue about the wars. 1313 01:07:27,720 --> 01:07:30,280 Speaker 2: I think the interesting question is whether you're busy watering it. 1314 01:07:31,000 --> 01:07:34,800 Speaker 1: We should you not talk about mistakes that were made overall? 1315 01:07:34,920 --> 01:07:35,360 Speaker 2: Absolutely? 1316 01:07:35,360 --> 01:07:38,600 Speaker 11: Okay, you should absolutely right all four go back and 1317 01:07:38,600 --> 01:07:39,200 Speaker 11: looking at missus. 1318 01:07:39,320 --> 01:07:40,600 Speaker 5: So what are you what is your argument? 1319 01:07:40,680 --> 01:07:43,440 Speaker 11: Then it's a very weird thing to go back zone 1320 01:07:43,480 --> 01:07:46,920 Speaker 11: in on a man say this one thing is a 1321 01:07:46,960 --> 01:07:50,040 Speaker 11: mistake and should characterize him, and you ignore everything. 1322 01:07:50,200 --> 01:07:52,840 Speaker 2: You're taking him out of context. Why when you're talking 1323 01:07:52,880 --> 01:07:53,720 Speaker 2: about Darryl. 1324 01:07:53,560 --> 01:07:56,240 Speaker 1: Who's done what was it, thirty plus hours? 1325 01:07:56,360 --> 01:07:59,200 Speaker 11: So what thirty plus hours? But you take it, you 1326 01:07:59,280 --> 01:08:00,160 Speaker 11: do that in a week. 1327 01:08:00,760 --> 01:08:02,520 Speaker 10: Yeah, but it's a very it's very very different. It's 1328 01:08:02,560 --> 01:08:03,000 Speaker 10: very different. 1329 01:08:03,000 --> 01:08:05,040 Speaker 5: He's not doing a podcast like talking to. 1330 01:08:04,960 --> 01:08:07,680 Speaker 11: People, Okay, nor is he doing scholarly work, nor is 1331 01:08:07,720 --> 01:08:09,880 Speaker 11: he working in the archives. Clearly, come on, I mean 1332 01:08:09,920 --> 01:08:12,400 Speaker 11: this is he is not the historian of our era. 1333 01:08:12,880 --> 01:08:17,400 Speaker 2: He's not complaining to me the historian jelly, but. 1334 01:08:20,400 --> 01:08:20,679 Speaker 5: Work. 1335 01:08:20,760 --> 01:08:24,879 Speaker 11: What I'm saying because I don't need to consume endless 1336 01:08:24,960 --> 01:08:26,559 Speaker 11: versions of revisionist history. 1337 01:08:26,640 --> 01:08:30,479 Speaker 2: I understand this vision history. Okay, So that was about 1338 01:08:30,479 --> 01:08:33,679 Speaker 2: the Darryl Cooper thing. But that pop part I found 1339 01:08:33,840 --> 01:08:37,920 Speaker 2: very illuminating is this he produced thirty hours of part 1340 01:08:38,000 --> 01:08:40,720 Speaker 2: He goes, so what you do that? And it's like 1341 01:08:40,840 --> 01:08:44,240 Speaker 2: Douglas is acting as if he is like one of 1342 01:08:44,280 --> 01:08:48,240 Speaker 2: the professors at Oxford that he got his undergraduate degree 1343 01:08:48,320 --> 01:08:51,320 Speaker 2: in English from. You were not that, bro. You have 1344 01:08:51,439 --> 01:08:55,640 Speaker 2: written books about multiple different subjects. You are the definition 1345 01:08:56,120 --> 01:09:02,000 Speaker 2: of like a journalist. Yeah, Dylan, you're little. Yeah, you 1346 01:09:02,040 --> 01:09:06,040 Speaker 2: are an influencer diletant. You are a literal diletante who 1347 01:09:06,120 --> 01:09:09,439 Speaker 2: flits about the world, writes neo conservatism and why we 1348 01:09:09,520 --> 01:09:12,719 Speaker 2: need it and now madness of crowds and the strange 1349 01:09:12,720 --> 01:09:14,599 Speaker 2: death of your It's like, are you a fucking expert 1350 01:09:14,640 --> 01:09:17,560 Speaker 2: on immigration? Are you an expert on Western civilization? 1351 01:09:17,600 --> 01:09:22,880 Speaker 5: Because you yeah, have you been to the mortar listen? 1352 01:09:23,160 --> 01:09:25,400 Speaker 5: He said he didn't listen. He said he didn't listen. 1353 01:09:26,760 --> 01:09:29,759 Speaker 2: It's sheer arrogance. And you know, Ryan, that was another 1354 01:09:29,760 --> 01:09:33,759 Speaker 2: thing that I really found about these ziobots, like uh Murray, 1355 01:09:34,160 --> 01:09:37,599 Speaker 2: is that this guy is pushing like completely debunked stuff 1356 01:09:37,880 --> 01:09:40,960 Speaker 2: about October seventh, like it was fact, Like he talked 1357 01:09:40,960 --> 01:09:44,680 Speaker 2: about like mass rape on October seventh, he was like 1358 01:09:44,760 --> 01:09:47,800 Speaker 2: this close to talking about the baby's thing, right, And 1359 01:09:47,840 --> 01:09:50,120 Speaker 2: it was so obvious to me that he has not 1360 01:09:50,320 --> 01:09:54,880 Speaker 2: engaged with any even like surface level Horretz level criticism 1361 01:09:55,320 --> 01:09:59,880 Speaker 2: of Israel. And that is his expertise, right, His EXPERTI 1362 01:10:00,560 --> 01:10:04,320 Speaker 2: is that he's been there. It's just the purest form 1363 01:10:04,640 --> 01:10:09,400 Speaker 2: of wokeism, of like concern trolling about expertise when you yourself 1364 01:10:09,560 --> 01:10:12,920 Speaker 2: have absolutely none. And I will say, like outside of Twitter, 1365 01:10:13,240 --> 01:10:15,839 Speaker 2: like Zionist Twitter, if you go look at the YouTube 1366 01:10:15,880 --> 01:10:19,280 Speaker 2: comments or the general reaction or anything. This Murray's getting cooked. 1367 01:10:19,439 --> 01:10:23,280 Speaker 2: People can see this level of like sneering and concern trolling, 1368 01:10:23,320 --> 01:10:25,240 Speaker 2: and just people are like, oh, I wasn't in the 1369 01:10:25,320 --> 01:10:28,519 Speaker 2: studio with Douglas, so I can't have an opinion about 1370 01:10:28,520 --> 01:10:30,920 Speaker 2: how much of a dickhead he was, you know, just 1371 01:10:30,960 --> 01:10:35,320 Speaker 2: like like that's the level of argumentation that he has, 1372 01:10:35,439 --> 01:10:37,040 Speaker 2: you know that he brings us down to. 1373 01:10:37,120 --> 01:10:40,920 Speaker 6: It's ridiculous and it is comical in one breath to 1374 01:10:40,920 --> 01:10:45,040 Speaker 6: say that, you know, Dave can't comment on Israel because 1375 01:10:45,040 --> 01:10:47,160 Speaker 6: he hasn't been there, but he can comment on a 1376 01:10:47,200 --> 01:10:50,960 Speaker 6: podcast that he's never listened to, right, because I actually 1377 01:10:51,280 --> 01:10:53,880 Speaker 6: disagree with the other point, Like you actually probably should 1378 01:10:53,920 --> 01:10:55,760 Speaker 6: listen to a podcast if you're going to have an 1379 01:10:55,760 --> 01:10:57,519 Speaker 6: opinion on the podcast. 1380 01:10:57,360 --> 01:11:00,600 Speaker 1: Right because you actually thing of having opinion on the 1381 01:11:00,640 --> 01:11:05,559 Speaker 1: podcast is like the content of the pop podcast. That's 1382 01:11:05,600 --> 01:11:06,880 Speaker 1: kind of the whole thing if you want to. 1383 01:11:07,160 --> 01:11:10,559 Speaker 4: And nobody has done like listen, I disagree with Darryl 1384 01:11:10,680 --> 01:11:13,120 Speaker 4: on Churchill. I just game with him on a lot, 1385 01:11:14,000 --> 01:11:17,000 Speaker 4: but if you listen to the podcast, absolutely nobody is 1386 01:11:17,040 --> 01:11:19,240 Speaker 4: doing what he is doing the level and Joe pointed 1387 01:11:19,280 --> 01:11:22,080 Speaker 4: this out. His fear and loathing and New Jerusalem starts 1388 01:11:22,120 --> 01:11:25,840 Speaker 4: from the emotional, visceral perspective of Jews who are fleeing pegroms. 1389 01:11:26,120 --> 01:11:29,040 Speaker 4: It's just absurd to act as though that is being 1390 01:11:29,080 --> 01:11:32,360 Speaker 4: put in the box of Pat Buchanan. It's not Pap Buchanon. 1391 01:11:32,439 --> 01:11:34,839 Speaker 4: It draws from Pap Buchanan, but it's not Pap Buchanan. 1392 01:11:34,880 --> 01:11:36,439 Speaker 4: And you don't know that unless you listen to it. 1393 01:11:36,920 --> 01:11:38,880 Speaker 2: That's another thing. I'm not even gonna go into the 1394 01:11:39,200 --> 01:11:42,320 Speaker 2: By the way, I love Darryl. Darrel's one of my brothers. Yes, 1395 01:11:42,479 --> 01:11:44,760 Speaker 2: I disagree with him. I actually text him often and 1396 01:11:44,800 --> 01:11:47,400 Speaker 2: be like, dude, you're totally wrong about all this. He's, 1397 01:11:47,600 --> 01:11:49,959 Speaker 2: you know, the guy who will send me books, obscure 1398 01:11:50,000 --> 01:11:52,600 Speaker 2: books about that he has on the Battle of Singapore, 1399 01:11:52,680 --> 01:11:53,960 Speaker 2: and so that you know, it's beyond the. 1400 01:11:53,960 --> 01:11:55,599 Speaker 5: Character a beautiful friendship. 1401 01:11:56,080 --> 01:11:58,799 Speaker 2: It is a beautiful friendship, just like Shinebaum and Trump, 1402 01:11:58,920 --> 01:12:04,439 Speaker 2: but like beyond even the like surface level criticism find 1403 01:12:04,479 --> 01:12:07,040 Speaker 2: if people want to have it for me? Is that 1404 01:12:07,280 --> 01:12:09,960 Speaker 2: arrogance of Murray and a lot of these pro Israel 1405 01:12:10,280 --> 01:12:14,040 Speaker 2: folks who resort to the most ad hominem and emotional 1406 01:12:14,080 --> 01:12:18,160 Speaker 2: attacks concern trolling about expertise, and then someone like you, Ryan, 1407 01:12:18,360 --> 01:12:22,640 Speaker 2: who actually has reporting expertise like knowledge and all that 1408 01:12:22,760 --> 01:12:26,160 Speaker 2: of the region is dismissed completely out of hand. And 1409 01:12:26,200 --> 01:12:28,960 Speaker 2: if someone like Dave, who is a consumer of your 1410 01:12:29,080 --> 01:12:31,400 Speaker 2: work or of Horetz or any of that, is laughed 1411 01:12:31,400 --> 01:12:33,600 Speaker 2: out of the room. You know, the idea is, you know, 1412 01:12:33,880 --> 01:12:35,960 Speaker 2: and I genuinely would say this is that the mean 1413 01:12:36,439 --> 01:12:39,080 Speaker 2: critic of Israel and of Israeli policy, and I mean 1414 01:12:39,120 --> 01:12:42,280 Speaker 2: this in the commentariat space, in my opinion, is ten 1415 01:12:42,360 --> 01:12:46,120 Speaker 2: times more informed on the conflict than anybody who is 1416 01:12:46,200 --> 01:12:51,439 Speaker 2: just mindlessly sucking up their propaganda about October seventh or 1417 01:12:51,479 --> 01:12:54,439 Speaker 2: the war in Gaza or the ends, you know. I mean. 1418 01:12:54,840 --> 01:12:57,559 Speaker 2: The other thing that I found preposterous, Ryan, is that 1419 01:12:57,600 --> 01:13:01,000 Speaker 2: throughout the podcast he's like Qatar is pumped money into 1420 01:13:01,040 --> 01:13:04,200 Speaker 2: our university system. Ryan, does he even know that Netan 1421 01:13:04,280 --> 01:13:07,800 Speaker 2: Yahoo is literally facing right, notch an allegation over probably not, 1422 01:13:08,240 --> 01:13:10,840 Speaker 2: That's my point. He doesn't even know anything about the 1423 01:13:10,840 --> 01:13:12,640 Speaker 2: place that he spent so much time. 1424 01:13:12,680 --> 01:13:14,639 Speaker 6: Right And that's a huge It's like the number one 1425 01:13:14,720 --> 01:13:18,680 Speaker 6: story in Israel right now. But it's structurally, if you 1426 01:13:18,760 --> 01:13:24,400 Speaker 6: are on the Dave Smith side, you you must constantly 1427 01:13:24,479 --> 01:13:27,760 Speaker 6: engage with the pro Israel side because it is it 1428 01:13:27,800 --> 01:13:30,639 Speaker 6: is the water that we're swimming in. If you are 1429 01:13:30,760 --> 01:13:35,120 Speaker 6: on Murray's side, you can actually just not read drop site. 1430 01:13:35,560 --> 01:13:40,120 Speaker 6: You cannot watch this program, like you can seal yourself 1431 01:13:40,160 --> 01:13:44,000 Speaker 6: off and just never encounter that. And so that's how 1432 01:13:44,040 --> 01:13:48,479 Speaker 6: you wind up with people repeating things that everyone already 1433 01:13:48,520 --> 01:13:52,200 Speaker 6: knows has been actually debunked by like even say like 1434 01:13:52,200 --> 01:13:54,840 Speaker 6: the BBC or somebody, but like not done it in 1435 01:13:54,920 --> 01:13:58,200 Speaker 6: a high profile enough way that it penetrated the pro 1436 01:13:58,280 --> 01:13:58,920 Speaker 6: Israel bubble. 1437 01:13:59,360 --> 01:14:00,479 Speaker 2: So or they do. 1438 01:14:00,640 --> 01:14:03,679 Speaker 1: There and they just want to and they just lie 1439 01:14:03,840 --> 01:14:05,920 Speaker 1: and don't expect to get called on it because it's 1440 01:14:06,439 --> 01:14:09,360 Speaker 1: emotionally uncomfortable to be like, well, actually there wasn't a 1441 01:14:09,360 --> 01:14:12,120 Speaker 1: mass rape on October seventh, and then you look like you're, 1442 01:14:12,200 --> 01:14:14,400 Speaker 1: you know, being a Hamas apologist or whatever. Like there's 1443 01:14:14,400 --> 01:14:16,920 Speaker 1: some of that going on too. Let's not deny that 1444 01:14:17,080 --> 01:14:19,960 Speaker 1: many of these people are happy to just lie or 1445 01:14:20,160 --> 01:14:23,120 Speaker 1: just believe a reality even though it's been debunked, you know, 1446 01:14:23,360 --> 01:14:26,439 Speaker 1: because it fits with their view of what's going on here. 1447 01:14:26,520 --> 01:14:28,639 Speaker 1: And I just want to drill down on this point 1448 01:14:28,960 --> 01:14:31,519 Speaker 1: a little bit more. I mean, two things. Number one, 1449 01:14:32,120 --> 01:14:33,799 Speaker 1: it seems to me, I didn't watch the whole podcast. 1450 01:14:33,800 --> 01:14:35,720 Speaker 1: I just watched the clips that you showed, so I 1451 01:14:35,760 --> 01:14:37,600 Speaker 1: don't I don't want to opine on a podcast that, 1452 01:14:37,680 --> 01:14:37,920 Speaker 1: by the. 1453 01:14:37,920 --> 01:14:43,360 Speaker 2: Way, listen to Crystal Don't subserve three hours everything you need. 1454 01:14:44,800 --> 01:14:47,400 Speaker 1: But you know, with the invoking of Ian Carroll, the 1455 01:14:47,439 --> 01:14:50,840 Speaker 1: invoking of Darryl it also feels like, rather than dealing 1456 01:14:50,880 --> 01:14:52,599 Speaker 1: with the arguments of the person who's right in front 1457 01:14:52,640 --> 01:14:55,040 Speaker 1: of you, you want to construct a straw man of 1458 01:14:55,120 --> 01:14:57,320 Speaker 1: you know, I mean Ian Carroll. There are some things, 1459 01:14:57,400 --> 01:15:00,840 Speaker 1: Daryl Cooper, there are definitely some things. Okay, they're not there. 1460 01:15:01,000 --> 01:15:03,599 Speaker 1: Dave Smith is there? What is his argument? Deal with 1461 01:15:03,640 --> 01:15:06,720 Speaker 1: his arguments rather than these other superfluous people who have 1462 01:15:06,840 --> 01:15:10,320 Speaker 1: been in the Joe Rogan podcast universe. Okay, that's number one. 1463 01:15:10,600 --> 01:15:13,679 Speaker 1: Number two, I want to say this since this view 1464 01:15:13,760 --> 01:15:16,040 Speaker 1: and this is the same thing I said when the 1465 01:15:16,280 --> 01:15:18,439 Speaker 1: argument's about you can't have an opinion on certain things 1466 01:15:18,439 --> 01:15:21,320 Speaker 1: if you're not part of that marginalized group whatever it is, 1467 01:15:21,520 --> 01:15:26,920 Speaker 1: fundamentally anti democratic, small de democratic. Our government is sending 1468 01:15:27,080 --> 01:15:32,280 Speaker 1: our money to bomb these babies. We're not allowed to 1469 01:15:32,320 --> 01:15:34,760 Speaker 1: have an opinion because we haven't fucking been there, Are 1470 01:15:34,800 --> 01:15:38,679 Speaker 1: you kidding me? Seriously, we're all about to pay taxes, 1471 01:15:38,680 --> 01:15:41,960 Speaker 1: taxes are doing what four days? Yeah, we can't have 1472 01:15:42,000 --> 01:15:47,000 Speaker 1: an opinion on that. B for real, we are obligated, 1473 01:15:47,439 --> 01:15:51,400 Speaker 1: obligated to have an opinion on what our government is 1474 01:15:51,439 --> 01:15:56,000 Speaker 1: doing in our name with our money to a trapped, starved, 1475 01:15:56,280 --> 01:16:02,679 Speaker 1: bombed population. We like, if you are a citizen who 1476 01:16:02,800 --> 01:16:05,040 Speaker 1: cares about the direction of the country in the world, 1477 01:16:05,439 --> 01:16:08,439 Speaker 1: yes you should have an opinion about that. And it 1478 01:16:08,479 --> 01:16:11,639 Speaker 1: doesn't require you going to the region, going to Israel, 1479 01:16:11,680 --> 01:16:15,280 Speaker 1: going on Bebe's press tour, going to the crossings, auditing 1480 01:16:15,479 --> 01:16:18,479 Speaker 1: what goods or No, you get to have an opinion 1481 01:16:18,800 --> 01:16:22,760 Speaker 1: because this is a fucking allegedly democracy. So that is 1482 01:16:22,840 --> 01:16:29,080 Speaker 1: why that thing pisces me off so much. And especially 1483 01:16:29,240 --> 01:16:31,000 Speaker 1: this is the way also by the way that like 1484 01:16:31,120 --> 01:16:33,800 Speaker 1: liberal Zionist shut people down too. Oh it's complicated and 1485 01:16:33,880 --> 01:16:36,320 Speaker 1: you just don't understand. This is what they do on 1486 01:16:36,400 --> 01:16:38,640 Speaker 1: you know, monetary policy, This is complicated. Just let the 1487 01:16:38,640 --> 01:16:39,840 Speaker 1: experts handle it. You just don't know. 1488 01:16:39,880 --> 01:16:42,200 Speaker 5: I've got this all of the time. On gender stuff, 1489 01:16:42,360 --> 01:16:44,040 Speaker 5: like from the from the left all. 1490 01:16:44,000 --> 01:16:47,240 Speaker 2: The time, and in too many genders. You understand. 1491 01:16:47,360 --> 01:16:48,520 Speaker 1: Well, no, it's very similars. 1492 01:16:48,640 --> 01:16:51,760 Speaker 5: You are not are you Are you a neuroscientist? Are 1493 01:16:51,800 --> 01:16:55,200 Speaker 5: you a biologist? Yeah? Are you a psychiatrist? No, it's 1494 01:16:55,280 --> 01:16:57,479 Speaker 5: it's it's a thing. That's a thing. It's just like 1495 01:16:57,520 --> 01:16:59,040 Speaker 5: this blocking with the expertise. 1496 01:16:59,600 --> 01:17:03,840 Speaker 1: I look, I think that we experts are important. I 1497 01:17:03,880 --> 01:17:06,400 Speaker 1: think it is really important to have people who have 1498 01:17:06,439 --> 01:17:11,240 Speaker 1: deeply studied fields medicine, science, history. I think it is 1499 01:17:11,280 --> 01:17:14,559 Speaker 1: important to take in that information. But they can't tell 1500 01:17:14,600 --> 01:17:18,160 Speaker 1: you what your values are, right, They can't like chew 1501 01:17:18,280 --> 01:17:21,040 Speaker 1: up your democratic food and spit it in your mouth 1502 01:17:21,080 --> 01:17:24,799 Speaker 1: and eat it for you Like, you have to engage 1503 01:17:24,800 --> 01:17:28,400 Speaker 1: with that content and think about the world for yourself. 1504 01:17:29,080 --> 01:17:31,640 Speaker 1: And yes, you are allowed to do that. That is 1505 01:17:31,680 --> 01:17:35,559 Speaker 1: like the base. That is like the foundation upon which 1506 01:17:35,560 --> 01:17:38,280 Speaker 1: this country is allegedly built. And we follow shor in 1507 01:17:38,360 --> 01:17:42,599 Speaker 1: many many ways. But when you just when you try 1508 01:17:42,600 --> 01:17:45,200 Speaker 1: to dumb down the population, don't worry your pretty little head. 1509 01:17:45,439 --> 01:17:48,280 Speaker 1: The experts over here they get it. You don't. It's 1510 01:17:48,280 --> 01:17:51,240 Speaker 1: too complicated. You don't get to have an opinion that 1511 01:17:51,400 --> 01:17:55,639 Speaker 1: is fundamentally anti democratic, It is anti populous. It is 1512 01:17:55,720 --> 01:17:58,760 Speaker 1: like the you know, I am just repulsed by that 1513 01:17:58,800 --> 01:18:01,920 Speaker 1: whole direction. And by the way, way, think of when 1514 01:18:02,000 --> 01:18:04,479 Speaker 1: Dave Smith is talking about these experts that got us 1515 01:18:04,520 --> 01:18:06,720 Speaker 1: into the Iraq war, right, how did that go? These 1516 01:18:06,760 --> 01:18:09,599 Speaker 1: experts who you know kept us in Afghanistan for decades? 1517 01:18:09,840 --> 01:18:12,320 Speaker 1: How did that go? These experts that were part of 1518 01:18:12,479 --> 01:18:15,160 Speaker 1: you know, deregular and financial industry. He didn't make these 1519 01:18:15,280 --> 01:18:17,760 Speaker 1: arguments on making these arguments and crash the entire like 1520 01:18:17,760 --> 01:18:20,840 Speaker 1: global economy. How did that go? How has deferring to 1521 01:18:20,920 --> 01:18:24,120 Speaker 1: experts and not worrying your pretty little head about these 1522 01:18:24,160 --> 01:18:26,439 Speaker 1: overly complicated topics, how has that worked out? 1523 01:18:26,520 --> 01:18:28,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, COVID, you know, we can go on for it. 1524 01:18:28,439 --> 01:18:32,000 Speaker 4: Well, Douglas talked about COVID and that Taibi debate, if 1525 01:18:32,000 --> 01:18:34,080 Speaker 4: I'm remembering correctly. And the last thing i want to 1526 01:18:34,120 --> 01:18:37,000 Speaker 4: say is that I'm sympathetic to a point that Douglas 1527 01:18:37,000 --> 01:18:40,439 Speaker 4: makes about losing the forest for the trees. I think 1528 01:18:40,520 --> 01:18:43,400 Speaker 4: that's sometimes what we get into when we're debating like 1529 01:18:43,520 --> 01:18:45,840 Speaker 4: gallipoly campaign and Churchill and all of that. 1530 01:18:46,360 --> 01:18:50,760 Speaker 2: I guess, oh, yeah, keep Gallipo out of your mouth. Yeah, 1531 01:18:51,680 --> 01:18:52,080 Speaker 2: but you know what. 1532 01:18:52,080 --> 01:18:55,080 Speaker 1: I'm saying, You're not an expert. Amalie I wasn't there, 1533 01:18:56,000 --> 01:18:56,360 Speaker 1: but I. 1534 01:18:56,280 --> 01:18:58,679 Speaker 4: Think that we said we do sometimes lose the forest 1535 01:18:58,720 --> 01:19:01,720 Speaker 4: for the trees, because some of these trees have not 1536 01:19:01,800 --> 01:19:05,200 Speaker 4: been you know, have not been well evaluate evaluated over 1537 01:19:05,200 --> 01:19:07,720 Speaker 4: the course of the last century, and so in revisiting 1538 01:19:07,760 --> 01:19:11,080 Speaker 4: them and saying, oh, the experts lied, we sometimes assume 1539 01:19:11,439 --> 01:19:12,960 Speaker 4: that when we're looking at a tree, we're looking at 1540 01:19:13,000 --> 01:19:14,320 Speaker 4: the whole forest, or we get lost. 1541 01:19:14,479 --> 01:19:16,920 Speaker 5: Man. This is a tortured metaphor. So I'm sympathetic to 1542 01:19:16,960 --> 01:19:17,360 Speaker 5: that point. 1543 01:19:17,360 --> 01:19:20,400 Speaker 4: But the problem is the experts are the ones that 1544 01:19:20,479 --> 01:19:24,240 Speaker 4: continue to just completely lose trust because they're wrong about 1545 01:19:24,240 --> 01:19:26,720 Speaker 4: certain things, and then so to defer to experts, to 1546 01:19:26,720 --> 01:19:29,160 Speaker 4: say the experts got COVID wrong, expert, but then to 1547 01:19:29,200 --> 01:19:32,160 Speaker 4: defer to them on Ukraine and Israel and act like 1548 01:19:32,240 --> 01:19:36,000 Speaker 4: anybody who is challenging those official narratives is siding with 1549 01:19:36,040 --> 01:19:37,759 Speaker 4: anti Semites or with Putin. 1550 01:19:38,640 --> 01:19:42,120 Speaker 5: It is so unfortunate and it's very telling. 1551 01:19:42,200 --> 01:19:44,960 Speaker 2: I think that's a great place to leave it. I think, 1552 01:19:45,240 --> 01:19:47,320 Speaker 2: great show, everybody, thanks for having me. 1553 01:19:47,600 --> 01:19:50,880 Speaker 1: Well it was too, It's nice having the whole crew 1554 01:19:52,520 --> 01:19:55,720 Speaker 1: or any last anything, last Ryan in particular, are you 1555 01:19:55,720 --> 01:19:57,760 Speaker 1: looking at anything working on any reporting you want to 1556 01:19:57,840 --> 01:19:58,559 Speaker 1: you want to highlight. 1557 01:19:59,240 --> 01:20:01,760 Speaker 6: Oh no, I should send this to Phil Emily. But 1558 01:20:01,960 --> 01:20:04,599 Speaker 6: a very cool story in drop set that we published 1559 01:20:04,640 --> 01:20:09,120 Speaker 6: yesterday afternoon. Interview with a top Hoothy leader who basically 1560 01:20:09,160 --> 01:20:11,720 Speaker 6: responding to Trump and Hexath, who said, Hey, if the 1561 01:20:11,760 --> 01:20:15,280 Speaker 6: Hoothi stop bombing American ships, will stop bombing the Houthis. 1562 01:20:15,800 --> 01:20:19,200 Speaker 6: And they told drop Site, we will stop bombing American ships. 1563 01:20:19,200 --> 01:20:22,200 Speaker 6: Then if you'll stop bombing us, they said, we will 1564 01:20:22,200 --> 01:20:23,799 Speaker 6: continue to bomb Israeli ships. 1565 01:20:23,920 --> 01:20:26,599 Speaker 2: They're not allowed, they're not walking through. But American ship's fine. 1566 01:20:26,640 --> 01:20:29,519 Speaker 6: We have no problem with America. So now the question 1567 01:20:29,560 --> 01:20:34,040 Speaker 6: will be did Trump and Hegseth mean Israeli ships under 1568 01:20:34,040 --> 01:20:35,519 Speaker 6: the definition of our ships? 1569 01:20:35,880 --> 01:20:37,920 Speaker 1: We all know the answer to that. Yeah, we know that, 1570 01:20:38,160 --> 01:20:41,840 Speaker 1: but it's good to have it clarified. Indeed. All right, guys, 1571 01:20:41,920 --> 01:20:45,160 Speaker 1: thank you so much. Thanks to everybody out there. Appreciate you. 1572 01:20:45,200 --> 01:20:45,400 Speaker 3: Guys. 1573 01:20:45,439 --> 01:20:47,240 Speaker 1: We're gonna have some announcements next week. I'm just going 1574 01:20:47,320 --> 01:20:51,800 Speaker 1: to tease that, some big announcements all around, So stay 1575 01:20:51,800 --> 01:20:54,000 Speaker 1: tuned for that and have a great weekend. We will 1576 01:20:54,040 --> 01:20:57,240 Speaker 1: see you back here Monday.