Speaker 1: On Theme is a production of iHeartRadio and fair Weather Friends.
Speaker 2: Media haters get a bad rap, and for good reason.
Speaker 2: They demean, ridicule, and well hate, but there are oftentimes
Speaker 2: a catalysts in many of the black storytellers we know
Speaker 2: and love origin stories. This week's episode, I'd like to
Speaker 2: thank my haters.
Speaker 1: I'm Katie and I'm Eves, And in this episode we'll
Speaker 1: discuss hater's place in the black storytelling ecosystem. We hear
Speaker 1: about haters and songs, memoirs, acceptance speeches and the like.
Speaker 1: It's possible that without haters we would only have a
Speaker 1: fraction of the black stories that we have today. You
Speaker 1: know what they say, No, Katie, what do they say?
Speaker 2: Hater's gone hate? Okay, hate, hose ain't happy and happy
Speaker 2: hose ain't hating. There'll always be haters, that's the way
Speaker 2: it is. Hated. Niggas marry hater bitchesn't have hater kids.
Speaker 2: That's enough, Katie, Okay, we get it. They say a
Speaker 2: lot about haters, a hell of a whole lot, like
Speaker 2: for a group that is so widely disdained, they always
Speaker 2: get shouted out. And as a hater myself, I think
Speaker 2: it's time, we look at haters for what they truly are.
Speaker 1: And what is that?
Speaker 2: Muses?
Speaker 1: Okay, muses, that's very flattering, And you know what, it
Speaker 1: absolutely is an art form and black folks have taken
Speaker 1: full advantage of its storytelling power.
Speaker 2: Everything in storytelling does not have to be positive. Haters
Speaker 2: are storytellers too, and they inspire a lot of storytelling too.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: True, true, But I'd say a hater is someone who
Speaker 2: is always looking at the negative, quick with critiques, slow
Speaker 2: with compliments, most likely because they're jealous of whatever or
Speaker 2: whomever there hat.
Speaker 1: Okay, that's not a very good description of somebody and
Speaker 1: you identify as.
Speaker 2: That, Yeah, I mean not all the time, but I
Speaker 2: definitely can go there, and I think everybody does. But
Speaker 2: I'm just self aware enough to admit it. I'd be
Speaker 2: hating shit, Okay.
Speaker 1: I like how you flip that on his head. You're
Speaker 1: self aware, Okay.
Speaker 2: I mean I'm talking petty stuff like I'm not talking
Speaker 2: about hate cryings or white supremacy or cyberbully and I
Speaker 2: ain't into all that.
Speaker 1: And we're also not talking about people who offer criticism
Speaker 1: from a genuine place right exactly.
Speaker 2: No one's above constructive criticism. That's not hating.
Speaker 1: Okay, good, I'm glad we're setting some boundaries around this.
Speaker 2: I'm a hater, but I'm Rickory. Shit, dude, you have
Speaker 2: an instance of being hated one.
Speaker 1: It takes a certain amount of bravado to say that somebody,
Speaker 1: there is a person alive in this world who even
Speaker 1: wants to hate on me or has a reason to,
Speaker 1: but so humbful. Look, I guess this is how we're different.
Speaker 1: And no, I'm just kidding. But I did think about it,
Speaker 1: and I thought about a moment that I was very
Speaker 1: annoyed by, and I didn't understand why it seemed like
Speaker 1: someone had animosity toward me. And this person was older
Speaker 1: than me, and this person was in a position of
Speaker 1: power because they were one of my professors in college,
Speaker 1: I thought that I did finding class, and according to
Speaker 1: the grade that I got in that class, which was
Speaker 1: an A, I thought the professor thought I did find
Speaker 1: in class. But at the school, you could go and
Speaker 1: see comments that your professor's left about you, and I'm
Speaker 1: looking through the comments, and I remember getting to the
Speaker 1: specific professor's comments and it was a total one eighty
Speaker 1: from the experience that I had in class she and
Speaker 1: I were cool. We had no beef whatsoever, Like I
Speaker 1: would even even like she's complimented me in certain instances.
Speaker 1: I go look through her comments. She says stuff about
Speaker 1: me and like she was a partier. She would always
Speaker 1: come to class late. That was not true at all.
Speaker 1: You know how I am about school. I came to
Speaker 1: class one time every class.
Speaker 2: I'm not So she was lying.
Speaker 1: Like she was no, not low key, she was lying.
Speaker 2: So what do you chalk that up to jealousy envy?
Speaker 1: Because like, what else would it be from a person
Speaker 1: who is literally twice my age?
Speaker 2: So she saw you like a young artist like out here,
Speaker 2: like on the precipice of life, and she was hating.
Speaker 2: She was jealous because that had passed for her?
Speaker 1: Or I mean, I don't want to guess, because my
Speaker 1: guess is as good as yours, and I to this
Speaker 1: day am confused.
Speaker 2: Well, that falls into the old hater trope.
Speaker 1: Excuse me? You have tropes here?
Speaker 2: Oh? Absolutely, you really have thought deeply about this. I know,
Speaker 2: why would a hater not think about Hayden? I actually
Speaker 2: made my own official, unofficial list of hater tropes, and
Speaker 2: you'll get to decide whether you all into any of
Speaker 2: these categories. After the break, all right.
Speaker 1: We're back, and I for one am ready to crack
Speaker 1: open your hater's handbook. So let's get into these tropes. First.
Speaker 2: There's the classic motivation trope where the hater hates, which
Speaker 2: motivates the hate t to prove them wrong, and when
Speaker 2: the hat eventually succeeds, the hat t turns around to
Speaker 2: taunt the hater with their success.
Speaker 1: Okay, that's very intricate. I must say also that I
Speaker 1: love the term hat t.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you might have coined this. Yeah, don't
Speaker 2: try to take my stuff, y'all. So we see the
Speaker 2: motivation trope and tis aptly named motivation.
Speaker 1: I honestly, Katie, I do feel like it's a little
Speaker 1: bit spiritual and it feels kind of Buddhist in a way,
Speaker 1: like I did some Buddhist study and I continue to
Speaker 1: do so. It is to me relevant to this idea
Speaker 1: of tolerance that does come up in Buddhist sutras. So
Speaker 1: the idea of letting your haters be your motivators is
Speaker 1: it can be viewed from like a deeper lens. I
Speaker 1: feel like where you're saying that there are people who
Speaker 1: you know are in your life that are going to
Speaker 1: cause you pain. You know that there are people who
Speaker 1: are going to say some stuff about you that you
Speaker 1: don't like, and that's going to be coming from them,
Speaker 1: and that doesn't have anything to do with you. And indeed,
Speaker 1: you can use that as fuel on the fire. You
Speaker 1: are practicing tolerance in that way. And of course I
Speaker 1: want to say here to be very clear about it,
Speaker 1: that I'm not talking about abusive situations in any way.
Speaker 2: N'civing and a Buddha philosopher.
Speaker 1: I mean, I maybe wouldn't go that far because he
Speaker 1: has a whole lived life, but parts of it. And
Speaker 1: for this song and this idea of hating the songs
Speaker 1: and the lyrics in the song kind of became a
Speaker 1: monitra for the people. Yeah. It's like, instead of letting
Speaker 1: it be a thing that festers in a wound and
Speaker 1: grow and be something that you in turn choose to
Speaker 1: reflect back to the outside world, you choose to sit
Speaker 1: with it, acknowledge it, and then instead say, instead of
Speaker 1: letting this thing ruin me and using it to ruin others,
Speaker 1: I choose in this moment to make the decision to
Speaker 1: let it be something that motivates me.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I think in the instance of the
Speaker 2: motivation trope, it is an example of it festering still,
Speaker 2: even though fester has a negative connotation, Like the hater
Speaker 2: is very much in this person's head and they're saying like, oh,
Speaker 2: I'm want to prove them wrong. I'm gonna do this.
Speaker 2: It's a lot of external what's the word, like external
Speaker 2: locus of control A little bit, I would say, okay,
Speaker 2: because it's not like it's just in you, like I
Speaker 2: want to be successful because just because that's in me,
Speaker 2: it's like this person did me wrong and I'm going
Speaker 2: to prove them wrong. Right, That's how I see the
Speaker 2: motivation trope. Huh. And we see it. We see it
Speaker 2: a lot. There's there's so many examples of that, and
Speaker 2: it's like, well, if this hater never came around, would
Speaker 2: you just be like right twiddling your thumbs.
Speaker 1: Hmm. Yeah. I think that's a very interesting point because
Speaker 1: from that comes this idea of like, what's the value
Speaker 1: judgment between external factors weighing on you versus internal factors
Speaker 1: weighing on you? And it's one better than the other.
Speaker 1: So I see what you're saying, because in one way,
Speaker 1: it can be the very opposite of something that's conscious
Speaker 1: and mindful and thoughtful, because you're only doing it to
Speaker 1: spite somebody else or to prove something to somebody else,
Speaker 1: versus it being something that you would do without any
Speaker 1: sort of outside sway or influence. And I think that's
Speaker 1: an interesting conversation, but I don't necessarily think that that
Speaker 1: negates the idea that it could be conscious, because we
Speaker 1: live in a world right we have to interface with
Speaker 1: other people and we have to choose how to respond
Speaker 1: to them. And it's not like you can control what
Speaker 1: other people say to you or do to you. You
Speaker 1: can only choose how you respond. So pretty much everything
Speaker 1: we do is a response, whether that's internal or external.
Speaker 2: For sure, my mom is always telling me and Katie,
Speaker 2: you choose how you respond to me, and I'm like, well,
Speaker 2: I'm choosing violence, and that's valid, Katie.
Speaker 1: Thank you.
Speaker 2: So next is the bad trope, and this one is
Speaker 2: a fun one, and this one, the hater hates the
Speaker 2: Haiti succeeds despite the hate. But in a surprise twist,
Speaker 2: the hater tries to hop on the bandwagon. But our
Speaker 2: Haiti has not forgotten, and our Hadi reminds the hater
Speaker 2: of their initial hater ways. Okay, so we see this
Speaker 2: in Cardi B's Bronx season. It's a really good example.
Speaker 3: And it's secret to me just because that you stripped,
Speaker 3: but it's so good because now they want to get
Speaker 3: up in my pip.
Speaker 1: So I feel like this is one that is very
Speaker 1: prevalent in rap. So I guess it can operate in
Speaker 1: a way that is holding a grudge and it's something
Speaker 1: that you're not able to let go of, but it
Speaker 1: can also be a thing where it's boundary setting. Yes,
Speaker 1: and it's like you did this before, I don't know
Speaker 1: you won't do this again. Is it healthy to have
Speaker 1: you in my life? Why are you here? Because what
Speaker 1: are your intentions for coming back?
Speaker 2: Snake?
Speaker 1: What do you mean by that?
Speaker 2: Okay? I feel like there's a lot of like childhood
Speaker 2: fables or folk tales about like a snake that like
Speaker 2: bites you after you help them, because it's like I
Speaker 2: helped you, Like why would you do that? And the
Speaker 2: snake is always like, because I'm a snake, that's what
Speaker 2: snakes do. And it's like if a person shows you that,
Speaker 2: when you down it out, you know, whatever that looks
Speaker 2: like for you in this example, Carti says it was
Speaker 2: her stripping or like, you know, trying to get it
Speaker 2: out the mud and they hating on you, and then
Speaker 2: when you did your big one, they want to be
Speaker 2: in the in the group like, oh, yeah, I always
Speaker 2: knew it, Like, no, you know you didn't. You would
Speaker 2: actively try to make it not happen. And so I mean,
Speaker 2: is it holding a grudge? Sure, but I feel like
Speaker 2: that has a negative connotation. I like the boundary setting
Speaker 2: because you already showed me who you are. And I
Speaker 2: feel like black people love this quote. You know what
Speaker 2: I'm gonna say, a Black people love this quote, but
Speaker 2: it always boils down the haters on no one shows
Speaker 2: you who they are. Believe them who they are.
Speaker 1: Believe them, Yes, absolutely, A person says to you, I'm selfish?
Speaker 1: Are I mean? Are I am unkind? Oh I'm crazy?
Speaker 1: I believe them. They know themselves much better than you do.
Speaker 1: And I think that applies, especially so in a case
Speaker 1: like the one you just mention it, because it's like
Speaker 1: you were doing this to that person when they were
Speaker 1: having difficulties. It's easy to treat people well when they're
Speaker 1: having a good time, when they're doing well in their
Speaker 1: lives and you want to be in their circle exactly,
Speaker 1: or when they can help add to your image in
Speaker 1: some sort of way. But when you're down and out
Speaker 1: and this person is hating on you and they're not
Speaker 1: helping you out and they're not being like offering positive
Speaker 1: reinforcement in your life, then you really just you're not
Speaker 1: a great person. So yeah, I definitely I can see
Speaker 1: how you would lean toward the boundary setting side, because
Speaker 1: it can be holding a grudge, but I could see
Speaker 1: how it would be more toward the other side, because
Speaker 1: if you have a history of a certain relationship with somebody,
Speaker 1: then you're gonna act in kind. You're going to act
Speaker 1: as that person treated you.
Speaker 2: Like, not letting them too close because you've seen how
Speaker 2: they act. And I think if you like, oh, we're cool,
Speaker 2: you'll always gonna be looking at them sideways anyway.
Speaker 1: And that's where you lean into the whole situation of
Speaker 1: being cordial, right, which is a weird place to be
Speaker 1: in with people.
Speaker 2: Girl, don't let me see a nigga out it's on site.
Speaker 2: I ain't no cordial about it, you know what. And
Speaker 2: this is like, this isn't this is a cousin to
Speaker 2: another Another way of hating that I've seen is called
Speaker 2: the controversy trope. Okay, so it's the cousin of the
Speaker 2: bandwagon trope, especially in the online world. Let's say you
Speaker 2: know another popular rapper, a popular writer. Some artists putting
Speaker 2: out something, They're always going to be on the opposite
Speaker 2: of what they put out, like, oh, this song is
Speaker 2: bad or this op ed is whatever negative adjective, just
Speaker 2: so that they can be in the news cycle, because
Speaker 2: I feel like with journalism there's like a lot of
Speaker 2: both siderism. So it's like, oh, well, you know, this
Speaker 2: op ed talking about black lives matter, written by this
Speaker 2: black journalist came out today and people found it really enlightening.
Speaker 2: But this one conservative thinks that all black people should die,
Speaker 2: So we have that out there too, you know what
Speaker 2: I mean. So it's like you are like using that
Speaker 2: person's cloud fame to elevate yourself, uh huh. And I
Speaker 2: find it a bit disingenuous because I'm like, yeah, I
Speaker 2: don't disagree with everything this person says, but you know
Speaker 2: how the algorithm works, you know how the news cycles works,
Speaker 2: so that your name could be an association with them.
Speaker 2: So if you are googling Beyonce, if you're googling ton
Speaker 2: of Hosey codes. If you're googling you know, whatever, famous person,
Speaker 2: your name shows up in that and that starch history too.
Speaker 2: So I feel like that's a cousin of the bandwagon, Yeah.
Speaker 1: Because at once you're attaching yourself to that person in
Speaker 1: order to feed off of their You're parasite.
Speaker 2: Ooh, that's that's the name parasite.
Speaker 1: The parasite trope.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And that's a very of this age trope. It
Speaker 1: feels like some of these other ones have spanned across time.
Speaker 2: I feel like more more current.
Speaker 1: Definitely it is, and I guess we'll see how it
Speaker 1: continues to evolve in the future. But we should be
Speaker 1: more self evaluatory about it, because it's so easy to
Speaker 1: fall into these things as people who have to make
Speaker 1: livings in this world, especially if you're a media and
Speaker 1: you're doing online and your lifeline is kind of attached
Speaker 1: to being.
Speaker 2: Online, right and having an opinion.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we're forced in these boxes. But and yet we
Speaker 1: don't evaluate the choices that we make and the consequences
Speaker 1: that they have, and the way that it reflects on
Speaker 1: how we choose to talk about other people in the
Speaker 1: world who have their own lives and their own images
Speaker 1: to deal on their own reputations that are on the
Speaker 1: line as well, And it's like, we're kind of damned
Speaker 1: if we do, damned if we don't. We're damned if
Speaker 1: we do morally ethically because of the things that we're
Speaker 1: saying about this person for the click for the story,
Speaker 1: But we're damned if we don't because we kind of
Speaker 1: need to do that to be able to pop, to
Speaker 1: stand out in this landscape.
Speaker 2: The other thing I would say is I feel like
Speaker 2: the Haiti definitely plays into this trope the most because
Speaker 2: I remember, you know, there's a Reverer that I used
Speaker 2: to like, and she would be doing cool stuff and
Speaker 2: you know, comment little positive things like oh you killing it,
Speaker 2: go girl, love to see it, blah blah blah, and
Speaker 2: you know, as social media is an interaction, but I
Speaker 2: noticed that she would never reply to any positive comments
Speaker 2: about her. But at what, like there could be one
Speaker 2: hundred positive comments, let one person say something negative. She's
Speaker 2: writing a five paragraph essay and I'm like, girl, are
Speaker 2: you dumb? Like what do you think this is going
Speaker 2: to do? So next time, when someone knows that they
Speaker 2: want your attention, want you to respond to them. What
Speaker 2: do you think they're going to do. They're going to
Speaker 2: say something negative because they know that really gets under
Speaker 2: your skin.
Speaker 1: And it's so fulfilling cycle.
Speaker 2: Yeah for sure, because like I mean, I know, I'm
Speaker 2: not going to say nothing crazy publicly about anybody, but
Speaker 2: like some people are just like, well, I want her
Speaker 2: to respond either way. So I'm not gonna say anything
Speaker 2: nice because she doesn't respond to anything nice, you know.
Speaker 2: So I feel like this trope in particular, parasites are
Speaker 2: annoying and you want to scratch at them and pick
Speaker 2: at them and like get off me. But I feel
Speaker 2: like it just attracts more.
Speaker 1: And that's the word.
Speaker 2: Okay, okay, okay, this is my favorite trope. Okay are
Speaker 2: you ready?
Speaker 1: I'm ready.
Speaker 2: I call it the old switch roo. So in the
Speaker 2: old switcher root, we have a secret hater and the
Speaker 2: secret hater only likes the hat when they're struggling, you know,
Speaker 2: trying to make it but really not there. But when
Speaker 2: the haiti becomes successful bounced switcheroo, the hater reveals their
Speaker 2: true hater ways.
Speaker 1: Okay, so why is this your favorite? You know?
Speaker 2: I like the drama, the intrigue. The hater's a little steals,
Speaker 2: probably sabotage in the Haiti, so they remain in the
Speaker 2: muck and the mud with them.
Speaker 1: So are you this type of hater?
Speaker 2: No, if I'm hating on you, you will not be in
Speaker 2: under any illusion that we're friends. So you're safe, okay,
Speaker 2: and you don't follow rappers personalized. But the person that
Speaker 2: comes to mind to me for falling victim to this
Speaker 2: trope in particular is Megan thee Stallion. She addressed the
Speaker 2: situation with her best her ex best friend, and her
Speaker 2: song ungrateful.
Speaker 1: If I was still and you broke in, we won't
Speaker 1: be I feel like this is an antithesis of the
Speaker 1: last one, because when they're down and out, everything's cool. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And then once a person gets some fame, gets people
Speaker 1: talking about them, is in the news, is in the press,
Speaker 1: or they're just or they're just watching them, and they're
Speaker 1: in a position that they want to be in, then
Speaker 1: then that's when they become a hater. But they've been
Speaker 1: a hater all along, is what you're saying.
Speaker 2: It was latent.
Speaker 1: It was latent, okay.
Speaker 2: So I think if the person never became successful, you
Speaker 2: would never see that.
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, oh that is that's a stressful way to
Speaker 1: be That's a stressful way to live as a person
Speaker 1: because that means that you're like for somebody is disingenuine
Speaker 1: the whole time. But also like, let people be successful
Speaker 1: because there's only so much room in life to do things,
Speaker 1: and like so few of us are going to be successful.
Speaker 1: I guess in like grand or larger than life ways.
Speaker 1: So I don't know, I don't like this one KB.
Speaker 1: This is this one bothers me?
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that said it's my favorite. Yeah. I think
Speaker 2: it's the thing about proximity. You know, maybe they aren't
Speaker 2: self aware enough to know that they were going to
Speaker 2: have this reaction, but because of the proximity, it's like
Speaker 2: we're friends, Damn, we like the same beach, Like why
Speaker 2: not me?
Speaker 1: You know what I mean?
Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying. So it's like, for in
Speaker 2: Megan's case, her friend who I believe she's known since
Speaker 2: at least college, you know, this girl wrote a distrack,
Speaker 2: a rap distract to began this stallion. So it's clearly
Speaker 2: you're like, oh, I could do it, she do I
Speaker 2: can rap too. It was terrible you're not Megan, sweetie. Embarrassing,
Speaker 2: so embarrassing, But it's like the why not me? And
Speaker 2: because of the proximity, it's like, even because I feel
Speaker 2: like haters at the core, it's always why not me?
Speaker 2: But because you know that person that switcher rough happens
Speaker 2: that you might not see coming as the hater.
Speaker 1: See. The only thing I will push back on is
Speaker 1: I wouldn't say across the board, it's always a why
Speaker 1: not me? I think you're giving humanity a little too
Speaker 1: much credit and saying that it's probably always why not me?
Speaker 1: Because I think sometimes people just want to see the
Speaker 1: world burn. They just don't they don't care. It enlivens
Speaker 1: them to release this hate and energy. How do you
Speaker 1: feel about this trope? Like do you think that it
Speaker 1: is one that is prevalent in our time right now?
Speaker 2: Yeah? I mean, and even what you said about like
Speaker 2: our lives are sure and like not all of us
Speaker 2: are gonna be successful in like these really grandiose ways.
Speaker 2: I think it doesn't even have to be grandiose. I
Speaker 2: think I could get a fucking new a new Honda Civic.
Speaker 2: IM just don't like to too.
Speaker 1: What can be riding down the street and you get to
Speaker 1: a red light and they're looking at you real say, wait,
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: It doesn't have to be grandiose. It could just be like, dang,
Speaker 2: like she she got a new job before I did.
Speaker 2: I can't believe that she. I don't know, she got
Speaker 2: on a cute outfit and I don't. You know what
Speaker 2: I'm saying. It really doesn't have to be grandiose. It's like,
Speaker 2: it's it's levels to this, and I feel like this
Speaker 2: trope falls on every level. But I do think it's
Speaker 2: the proximity and the friendship or even maybe like a
Speaker 2: familial relationship where you can see this a lot of
Speaker 2: the times because people they grow up seeing you a
Speaker 2: certain way and they want it's comfortable for you. Be
Speaker 2: like that's her, I know her, she's like this. But
Speaker 2: then when it's such a when you see a change,
Speaker 2: it's like that makes me a little uncomfortable.
Speaker 1: Yeah, what a sad way to walk through life. I'm
Speaker 1: sorry to these people. Sorry to that man. Okay, So
Speaker 1: I noticed that all of your examples came from songs,
Speaker 1: specifically a rap songs. So are rappers getting hated on disproportionately?
Speaker 1: Is this like a systemic issue or something.
Speaker 2: I noticed that too, and I don't think so. We
Speaker 2: definitely have some R and B hater bombs like Dustney's
Speaker 2: Child So Good, where Beyonce says this is for them
Speaker 2: haters that said we wouldn't make it. Now we're doing
Speaker 2: platinum and now y'all can't take it. For all the
Speaker 2: people around us, it's been negative. Look at us, now,
Speaker 2: see how we live.
Speaker 1: That sounds like it fits into the motivation trope.
Speaker 2: Ah, yes, young guys happened. Indeed, I learned quickly. But
Speaker 2: I do think the nature of hip hop, the bravado,
Speaker 2: the grit, lends itself to this theme. I'm sure blue
Speaker 2: singers were getting hated on too, but because of what
Speaker 2: blues is as a genre, they probably felt more defeated
Speaker 2: after the interaction, like Buddy Guy talking about I can't
Speaker 2: win because I don't have a thing to lose, Like uhuh.
Speaker 1: I'd be surprised to hear a rapper admit.
Speaker 2: That it ain't gonna happen if they ain't won, the
Speaker 2: story ain't done in the facts.
Speaker 1: I do think the hater is a fruitful storytelling device, though,
Speaker 1: like all good stories, have some sort of conflict and
Speaker 1: when you're talking about a hater, the conflict is central,
Speaker 1: and it gives the audience clear heroes versus villains.
Speaker 2: And haters get the stories we tell ourselves structure and
Speaker 2: meaning interesting.
Speaker 1: Can you elaborate on that?
Speaker 2: Like I used to find myself assigning meaning to the
Speaker 2: bad things that happened to me, Like this had to
Speaker 2: happen so I'd have a reason to go so hard
Speaker 2: and succeed. A lot of the stories we consume teach
Speaker 2: us that life cannot be easy, and not only are
Speaker 2: hardships inevitable, they're necessary. So I think haters are a
Speaker 2: good plug in for an obstacle on the way to greatness.
Speaker 2: Without haters, the story would be incomplete. Yeah at the
Speaker 2: real Arian jokes about it in this TikTok perfectly. I'm
Speaker 2: trying to build rapple. Let me start.
Speaker 1: Stop helping me.
Speaker 3: I can't get on the track and say my family
Speaker 3: ain't never want me to make it. My family never
Speaker 3: they always hated on me. If y'all keep looking out
Speaker 3: for me, I need a story that what people want
Speaker 3: to heal.
Speaker 2: Sometimes you absolutely need a hater to tell your story.
Speaker 1: So what are some other examples of haters outside of music,
Speaker 1: I would assume that there's a bunch of them.
Speaker 2: For sure. For sure. What I found interesting was that
Speaker 2: the more long form storytelling, the narrator usually doesn't call
Speaker 2: the hater a hater out right, and the haters I
Speaker 2: encountered in books and in news stories had their own tropes.
Speaker 1: That's interesting. So why do you think that is?
Speaker 2: Probably because if you're writing a book, you're looking at
Speaker 2: events over a longer view. So instead of saying this
Speaker 2: person is a hater, someone writing a novel or a
Speaker 2: memoir will tell a story and write a scene that
Speaker 2: clearly shows, hey, we got some hatter over here.
Speaker 1: It's a little bit more subtle, yeah, just.
Speaker 2: A tad letting the audience come to their own conclusions
Speaker 2: through witnessing actions.
Speaker 1: And because songs are short, you got to get in
Speaker 1: and get out. You really have to get to the point.
Speaker 2: And for long form haters, they seem to have more power.
Speaker 2: The haters were more powerful, m which brings us to
Speaker 2: our next trope, the old hater old baby more after
Speaker 2: the break back with some old haters.
Speaker 1: Okay, oh goodness.
Speaker 2: Can you tell me what this trope is? By the title,
Speaker 2: I mean, I have an idea.
Speaker 1: Based on what the title is. Are you saying that
Speaker 1: an old person is hating on a younger one? Ding
Speaker 1: ding ding? Okay, so here comes to generation wars.
Speaker 2: I have receipts, and it's just not an old person
Speaker 2: hating on someone because they're young. It's usually an older
Speaker 2: person who is in the same field or industry hating
Speaker 2: on someone in a newer generation who is is in
Speaker 2: their review, surpassing them or doing it the wrong way.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's kind of like that should be me or
Speaker 1: similar to like an okay boomer situation for.
Speaker 2: Sure, like Jesse Jackson, Oh hair, not Jesse Jackson. You
Speaker 2: gonna maybe you roll a clip? Oh no, Well, actually
Speaker 2: the audio isn't the best because sneaky Jesse Jackson was
Speaker 2: whispering on the hot mic. But what he said was
Speaker 2: Barack he's talking down to black people on the faith
Speaker 2: based I want to cut his nuts off.
Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, I forgot about that.
Speaker 2: The year was two thousand and eight. Barack Obama was
Speaker 2: campaigning to become the first black president of the United States,
Speaker 2: and what was Jesse Jackson doing?
Speaker 1: What?
Speaker 2: Hey? And why what's it? Because Barack Obama was talking
Speaker 2: down to black people, as he stated on the hot mic,
Speaker 2: Or was really because Jesse Jackson ran to be the
Speaker 2: first black president in eighty eight? Was it because Jackson
Speaker 2: Jackson was looking at Barock thinking that should have been me?
Speaker 2: Damn Jesse, And Jesse ain't the only old hater in
Speaker 2: the political arena, girl, I know the political arena is
Speaker 2: full of haters, all of them and democracy and black
Speaker 2: Eddie god Junior writes about al Sharpton Hatten on Black
Speaker 2: Lives Matter protesters during his eulogy of Mike Brown. Al
Speaker 2: Sharpton through a job talking about some leaders, mad about
Speaker 2: other leaders, more folks worried about getting on the program
Speaker 2: than developing a program.
Speaker 1: That's a bold choice for eulogy.
Speaker 2: But then in a Washington Post profile he went in
Speaker 2: talking about I heard them saying that we don't want
Speaker 2: Sharpton taking over our movement. But my question is what movement?
Speaker 2: Y'all ain't got nothing to take over? How comes Sharpton
Speaker 2: sleas in march? Because I organize the march, I brought
Speaker 2: the crowd, I got the permit. Those parts cost us
Speaker 2: twenty thousand dollars. You want to run the march, fine,
Speaker 2: get your own. Damn poor to potties, m you sound
Speaker 2: just like a girl petty petty, very petty, very old hater.
Speaker 2: But in both examples, the old hater has some power still,
Speaker 2: even if it's waning. They're of a mindset that there
Speaker 2: can only be one and it better be them.
Speaker 1: So I don't think you have to be old to
Speaker 1: have that mindset, though, no.
Speaker 2: I agree. We see this in the novel The Other
Speaker 2: Black Girl, which looks at office politics and the need
Speaker 2: for some black people to be the only one or
Speaker 2: the favorite one.
Speaker 1: So can you give the people a little synopsis?
Speaker 2: Yeah? So The Other Black Girl is set in the
Speaker 2: New York publishing industry, which is notoriously white. We have
Speaker 2: the protagonist, Nella and the other Black Girl, Hazel. Hazel
Speaker 2: is hired at Nella's publishing house and Nella's excited to
Speaker 2: have a friend, but Hazel ain't there to make friends.
Speaker 2: She scoops Nella on a manuscript and has hours long
Speaker 2: secret meetings with Nella's boss, and of course this leads
Speaker 2: to Hazel being the office favorite and it threatens to
Speaker 2: sideline Nella's curry.
Speaker 1: Honestly, that's relatable.
Speaker 2: Yep, Mine eyes have seen the hated land. You remember
Speaker 2: Invisible Man when the narrator finds out mister Bledsoe wrote
Speaker 2: him a negative letter of recommendation while pretending that he
Speaker 2: was supporting him, which is the reason why he wasn't
Speaker 2: able to get into college. Mister Blodsoe was white and
Speaker 2: the unnamed narrator was black, and the narrator getting into
Speaker 2: college wouldn't hurt mister Blodsoe in any way. He was
Speaker 2: already successful white man in a whole other state. But
Speaker 2: he still went out of his way to be a hater.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there are some haters that be hating in truly
Speaker 1: nonsensical ways. Mister Bloodsoe saw the narrator's light and he
Speaker 1: tried to put it out.
Speaker 2: I don't even know what I call that trope hating
Speaker 2: to be hating, I guess I think if I were
Speaker 2: to trit about haters, I do it in the fictional
Speaker 2: long form way, because I'm no songwriter or memoirs. But
Speaker 2: I make it a personal rule to not bring up
Speaker 2: my haters in public forums. Like imagine you're giving an interview,
Speaker 2: reading your wedding, or even delivering an acceptance speech, and
Speaker 2: you use even a fraction of that time to address
Speaker 2: a hater. The hater want too at that point, like
Speaker 2: break off a piece of that award and hand it
Speaker 2: over because they're winning in that moment. Basically, let me
Speaker 2: tell it, and nobody did anything wrong to me. Everyone's
Speaker 2: shown love. I like to thank God and my mom
Speaker 2: a period.
Speaker 1: You say that, but the people don't know you lying
Speaker 1: about it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean they can't prove it unless someone comes
Speaker 2: out like no, I hate her, which is what we.
Speaker 1: All want anywhere like that would be a moment of
Speaker 1: drama that nobody would be mad at.
Speaker 2: I actually hate her, immad she.
Speaker 1: Is succeeding Katie. Where is that beat coming from?
Speaker 2: It's coming from the heart. You know, you rarely hear
Speaker 2: from the haters themselves, but that changes today. You want
Speaker 2: to know why I'm hating knowing you because I'm a hater.
Speaker 2: That's what haters do. Duh. I'm in a Honda, you
Speaker 2: whip been arranged. I see you out. I'm a hater
Speaker 2: on everything. Those full eyebrows, I hate them. You're outfit.
Speaker 2: Gonna shade it. Hate it is a game, and baby,
Speaker 2: I'm gonna play it. Do not collect to hunt it,
Speaker 2: do not press go, because when I hate boot, it
Speaker 2: won't be low.
Speaker 1: I won't stop.
Speaker 2: Even when you're at the top, I'll be waiting for
Speaker 2: a bucket in a moth hating on you. It's so
Speaker 2: much fun. Bonnie and Clyde. I hate on the Run,
Speaker 2: Smitti Weber Men Jensen. I hate her number one.
Speaker 1: Y'all.
Speaker 2: Somebody signed me. Now it's time for roll credits, Eves.
Speaker 2: Who or what would you like to give credit to
Speaker 2: this week?
Speaker 1: I would like to give credit to Katie for him
Speaker 1: impeccable wrapping skills that she has been developing and honing
Speaker 1: since we were in middle school. Yes, making raps together.
Speaker 1: I am so proud of you, Katie. Thank you. Who
Speaker 1: would you like to give credit to today?
Speaker 2: I would like to give credit to soup. Homemade soup
Speaker 2: is good. You know what I'm saying. I love making
Speaker 2: homemade soup for other people. I was under the imperson
Speaker 2: that homemade soup was like inferior at one point. I
Speaker 2: think because we grew up in a very manufactured tie yeah,
Speaker 2: very nineties, and you want to go to McDonald's, very soup,
Speaker 2: can get that chili, But the homemade soup is where
Speaker 2: it's at.
Speaker 1: And on that note, we'll link to the songs we
Speaker 1: mentioned today in the show notes for this episode at
Speaker 1: on Theme dot Show. We'll be back next episode.
Speaker 2: See You.
Speaker 1: On Theme is a production of iHeartRadio and Fairweather Friends Media.
Speaker 1: This episode was written by Eves, Jeffco and Katie Mitchell.
Speaker 1: It was edited and produced by Tari Harrison. Follow us
Speaker 1: on Instagram at on Themeshow. You can also send us
Speaker 1: an email at hello at on Theme dot Show. Head
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