1 00:00:01,360 --> 00:00:04,600 Speaker 1: On Theme is a production of iHeartRadio and fair Weather Friends. 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:24,919 Speaker 2: Media haters get a bad rap, and for good reason. 3 00:00:25,360 --> 00:00:30,560 Speaker 2: They demean, ridicule, and well hate, but there are oftentimes 4 00:00:30,560 --> 00:00:33,040 Speaker 2: a catalysts in many of the black storytellers we know 5 00:00:33,120 --> 00:00:37,000 Speaker 2: and love origin stories. This week's episode, I'd like to 6 00:00:37,040 --> 00:00:38,000 Speaker 2: thank my haters. 7 00:00:38,560 --> 00:00:42,000 Speaker 1: I'm Katie and I'm Eves, And in this episode we'll 8 00:00:42,040 --> 00:00:47,760 Speaker 1: discuss hater's place in the black storytelling ecosystem. We hear 9 00:00:47,800 --> 00:00:52,440 Speaker 1: about haters and songs, memoirs, acceptance speeches and the like. 10 00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:56,040 Speaker 1: It's possible that without haters we would only have a 11 00:00:56,120 --> 00:00:58,880 Speaker 1: fraction of the black stories that we have today. You 12 00:00:58,920 --> 00:01:01,600 Speaker 1: know what they say, No, Katie, what do they say? 13 00:01:02,560 --> 00:01:06,880 Speaker 2: Hater's gone hate? Okay, hate, hose ain't happy and happy 14 00:01:06,880 --> 00:01:09,400 Speaker 2: hose ain't hating. There'll always be haters, that's the way 15 00:01:09,400 --> 00:01:12,840 Speaker 2: it is. Hated. Niggas marry hater bitchesn't have hater kids. 16 00:01:12,959 --> 00:01:15,840 Speaker 2: That's enough, Katie, Okay, we get it. They say a 17 00:01:15,880 --> 00:01:19,040 Speaker 2: lot about haters, a hell of a whole lot, like 18 00:01:19,080 --> 00:01:21,760 Speaker 2: for a group that is so widely disdained, they always 19 00:01:21,840 --> 00:01:24,840 Speaker 2: get shouted out. And as a hater myself, I think 20 00:01:24,840 --> 00:01:27,720 Speaker 2: it's time, we look at haters for what they truly are. 21 00:01:27,880 --> 00:01:28,520 Speaker 1: And what is that? 22 00:01:29,160 --> 00:01:29,600 Speaker 2: Muses? 23 00:01:30,440 --> 00:01:34,240 Speaker 1: Okay, muses, that's very flattering, And you know what, it 24 00:01:34,280 --> 00:01:37,560 Speaker 1: absolutely is an art form and black folks have taken 25 00:01:37,760 --> 00:01:39,880 Speaker 1: full advantage of its storytelling power. 26 00:01:40,120 --> 00:01:43,520 Speaker 2: Everything in storytelling does not have to be positive. Haters 27 00:01:43,520 --> 00:01:47,480 Speaker 2: are storytellers too, and they inspire a lot of storytelling too. 28 00:01:47,920 --> 00:01:48,280 Speaker 1: Yeah. 29 00:01:48,280 --> 00:01:51,440 Speaker 2: True, true, But I'd say a hater is someone who 30 00:01:51,520 --> 00:01:54,680 Speaker 2: is always looking at the negative, quick with critiques, slow 31 00:01:54,680 --> 00:01:58,760 Speaker 2: with compliments, most likely because they're jealous of whatever or 32 00:01:59,040 --> 00:02:00,240 Speaker 2: whomever there hat. 33 00:02:00,640 --> 00:02:05,360 Speaker 1: Okay, that's not a very good description of somebody and 34 00:02:05,440 --> 00:02:07,000 Speaker 1: you identify as. 35 00:02:06,800 --> 00:02:10,680 Speaker 2: That, Yeah, I mean not all the time, but I 36 00:02:10,760 --> 00:02:13,520 Speaker 2: definitely can go there, and I think everybody does. But 37 00:02:13,680 --> 00:02:17,160 Speaker 2: I'm just self aware enough to admit it. I'd be 38 00:02:17,200 --> 00:02:19,400 Speaker 2: hating shit, Okay. 39 00:02:19,400 --> 00:02:21,320 Speaker 1: I like how you flip that on his head. You're 40 00:02:21,400 --> 00:02:22,760 Speaker 1: self aware, Okay. 41 00:02:23,520 --> 00:02:27,600 Speaker 2: I mean I'm talking petty stuff like I'm not talking 42 00:02:27,600 --> 00:02:30,160 Speaker 2: about hate cryings or white supremacy or cyberbully and I 43 00:02:30,160 --> 00:02:31,000 Speaker 2: ain't into all that. 44 00:02:31,680 --> 00:02:34,720 Speaker 1: And we're also not talking about people who offer criticism 45 00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:37,160 Speaker 1: from a genuine place right exactly. 46 00:02:37,320 --> 00:02:40,280 Speaker 2: No one's above constructive criticism. That's not hating. 47 00:02:41,080 --> 00:02:44,000 Speaker 1: Okay, good, I'm glad we're setting some boundaries around this. 48 00:02:44,520 --> 00:02:48,320 Speaker 2: I'm a hater, but I'm Rickory. Shit, dude, you have 49 00:02:48,360 --> 00:02:49,680 Speaker 2: an instance of being hated one. 50 00:02:49,720 --> 00:02:53,040 Speaker 1: It takes a certain amount of bravado to say that somebody, 51 00:02:53,080 --> 00:02:55,399 Speaker 1: there is a person alive in this world who even 52 00:02:55,440 --> 00:02:57,440 Speaker 1: wants to hate on me or has a reason to, 53 00:02:58,200 --> 00:03:03,600 Speaker 1: but so humbful. Look, I guess this is how we're different. 54 00:03:03,600 --> 00:03:07,600 Speaker 1: And no, I'm just kidding. But I did think about it, 55 00:03:07,800 --> 00:03:10,640 Speaker 1: and I thought about a moment that I was very 56 00:03:10,760 --> 00:03:13,320 Speaker 1: annoyed by, and I didn't understand why it seemed like 57 00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:17,320 Speaker 1: someone had animosity toward me. And this person was older 58 00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:19,440 Speaker 1: than me, and this person was in a position of 59 00:03:19,440 --> 00:03:22,280 Speaker 1: power because they were one of my professors in college, 60 00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:26,239 Speaker 1: I thought that I did finding class, and according to 61 00:03:26,280 --> 00:03:28,040 Speaker 1: the grade that I got in that class, which was 62 00:03:28,160 --> 00:03:30,959 Speaker 1: an A, I thought the professor thought I did find 63 00:03:31,000 --> 00:03:34,080 Speaker 1: in class. But at the school, you could go and 64 00:03:34,120 --> 00:03:37,720 Speaker 1: see comments that your professor's left about you, and I'm 65 00:03:37,720 --> 00:03:39,600 Speaker 1: looking through the comments, and I remember getting to the 66 00:03:39,640 --> 00:03:44,320 Speaker 1: specific professor's comments and it was a total one eighty 67 00:03:44,680 --> 00:03:46,520 Speaker 1: from the experience that I had in class she and 68 00:03:46,520 --> 00:03:51,720 Speaker 1: I were cool. We had no beef whatsoever, Like I 69 00:03:51,720 --> 00:03:55,640 Speaker 1: would even even like she's complimented me in certain instances. 70 00:03:56,160 --> 00:03:58,200 Speaker 1: I go look through her comments. She says stuff about 71 00:03:58,200 --> 00:04:00,640 Speaker 1: me and like she was a partier. She would always 72 00:04:00,680 --> 00:04:04,040 Speaker 1: come to class late. That was not true at all. 73 00:04:04,080 --> 00:04:05,880 Speaker 1: You know how I am about school. I came to 74 00:04:05,880 --> 00:04:07,560 Speaker 1: class one time every class. 75 00:04:07,680 --> 00:04:08,920 Speaker 2: I'm not So she was lying. 76 00:04:08,840 --> 00:04:11,600 Speaker 1: Like she was no, not low key, she was lying. 77 00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:14,640 Speaker 2: So what do you chalk that up to jealousy envy? 78 00:04:14,960 --> 00:04:16,800 Speaker 1: Because like, what else would it be from a person 79 00:04:16,839 --> 00:04:19,159 Speaker 1: who is literally twice my age? 80 00:04:19,600 --> 00:04:23,920 Speaker 2: So she saw you like a young artist like out here, 81 00:04:23,960 --> 00:04:26,760 Speaker 2: like on the precipice of life, and she was hating. 82 00:04:26,880 --> 00:04:29,200 Speaker 2: She was jealous because that had passed for her? 83 00:04:29,520 --> 00:04:34,000 Speaker 1: Or I mean, I don't want to guess, because my 84 00:04:34,080 --> 00:04:37,480 Speaker 1: guess is as good as yours, and I to this 85 00:04:37,600 --> 00:04:39,200 Speaker 1: day am confused. 86 00:04:39,520 --> 00:04:41,880 Speaker 2: Well, that falls into the old hater trope. 87 00:04:42,240 --> 00:04:44,039 Speaker 1: Excuse me? You have tropes here? 88 00:04:44,320 --> 00:04:48,840 Speaker 2: Oh? Absolutely, you really have thought deeply about this. I know, 89 00:04:49,720 --> 00:04:53,920 Speaker 2: why would a hater not think about Hayden? I actually 90 00:04:53,960 --> 00:04:58,000 Speaker 2: made my own official, unofficial list of hater tropes, and 91 00:04:58,040 --> 00:05:00,720 Speaker 2: you'll get to decide whether you all into any of 92 00:05:00,760 --> 00:05:12,200 Speaker 2: these categories. After the break, all right. 93 00:05:12,080 --> 00:05:14,800 Speaker 1: We're back, and I for one am ready to crack 94 00:05:14,880 --> 00:05:18,760 Speaker 1: open your hater's handbook. So let's get into these tropes. First. 95 00:05:19,320 --> 00:05:24,960 Speaker 2: There's the classic motivation trope where the hater hates, which 96 00:05:25,360 --> 00:05:29,600 Speaker 2: motivates the hate t to prove them wrong, and when 97 00:05:29,640 --> 00:05:35,719 Speaker 2: the hat eventually succeeds, the hat t turns around to 98 00:05:35,880 --> 00:05:37,440 Speaker 2: taunt the hater with their success. 99 00:05:37,680 --> 00:05:40,320 Speaker 1: Okay, that's very intricate. I must say also that I 100 00:05:40,360 --> 00:05:41,400 Speaker 1: love the term hat t. 101 00:05:41,760 --> 00:05:45,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you might have coined this. Yeah, don't 102 00:05:45,680 --> 00:05:48,760 Speaker 2: try to take my stuff, y'all. So we see the 103 00:05:48,880 --> 00:05:52,479 Speaker 2: motivation trope and tis aptly named motivation. 104 00:06:00,839 --> 00:06:04,279 Speaker 1: I honestly, Katie, I do feel like it's a little 105 00:06:04,279 --> 00:06:07,320 Speaker 1: bit spiritual and it feels kind of Buddhist in a way, 106 00:06:07,560 --> 00:06:10,280 Speaker 1: like I did some Buddhist study and I continue to 107 00:06:10,279 --> 00:06:14,080 Speaker 1: do so. It is to me relevant to this idea 108 00:06:14,120 --> 00:06:18,520 Speaker 1: of tolerance that does come up in Buddhist sutras. So 109 00:06:18,839 --> 00:06:21,640 Speaker 1: the idea of letting your haters be your motivators is 110 00:06:21,960 --> 00:06:23,960 Speaker 1: it can be viewed from like a deeper lens. I 111 00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:28,080 Speaker 1: feel like where you're saying that there are people who 112 00:06:28,160 --> 00:06:31,120 Speaker 1: you know are in your life that are going to 113 00:06:31,200 --> 00:06:33,400 Speaker 1: cause you pain. You know that there are people who 114 00:06:33,400 --> 00:06:35,080 Speaker 1: are going to say some stuff about you that you 115 00:06:35,120 --> 00:06:37,360 Speaker 1: don't like, and that's going to be coming from them, 116 00:06:37,400 --> 00:06:40,240 Speaker 1: and that doesn't have anything to do with you. And indeed, 117 00:06:40,920 --> 00:06:45,080 Speaker 1: you can use that as fuel on the fire. You 118 00:06:45,360 --> 00:06:51,120 Speaker 1: are practicing tolerance in that way. And of course I 119 00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:54,520 Speaker 1: want to say here to be very clear about it, 120 00:06:54,560 --> 00:06:58,760 Speaker 1: that I'm not talking about abusive situations in any way. 121 00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:01,279 Speaker 2: N'civing and a Buddha philosopher. 122 00:07:01,080 --> 00:07:05,560 Speaker 1: I mean, I maybe wouldn't go that far because he 123 00:07:05,600 --> 00:07:10,280 Speaker 1: has a whole lived life, but parts of it. And 124 00:07:10,360 --> 00:07:14,160 Speaker 1: for this song and this idea of hating the songs 125 00:07:14,160 --> 00:07:15,840 Speaker 1: and the lyrics in the song kind of became a 126 00:07:15,880 --> 00:07:18,920 Speaker 1: monitra for the people. Yeah. It's like, instead of letting 127 00:07:18,960 --> 00:07:21,560 Speaker 1: it be a thing that festers in a wound and 128 00:07:21,760 --> 00:07:24,960 Speaker 1: grow and be something that you in turn choose to 129 00:07:25,000 --> 00:07:30,000 Speaker 1: reflect back to the outside world, you choose to sit 130 00:07:30,080 --> 00:07:34,120 Speaker 1: with it, acknowledge it, and then instead say, instead of 131 00:07:34,240 --> 00:07:36,960 Speaker 1: letting this thing ruin me and using it to ruin others, 132 00:07:38,160 --> 00:07:42,120 Speaker 1: I choose in this moment to make the decision to 133 00:07:42,200 --> 00:07:45,080 Speaker 1: let it be something that motivates me. 134 00:07:45,680 --> 00:07:48,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I think in the instance of the 135 00:07:48,480 --> 00:07:54,600 Speaker 2: motivation trope, it is an example of it festering still, 136 00:07:55,200 --> 00:07:58,760 Speaker 2: even though fester has a negative connotation, Like the hater 137 00:07:58,960 --> 00:08:02,680 Speaker 2: is very much in this person's head and they're saying like, oh, 138 00:08:02,680 --> 00:08:04,320 Speaker 2: I'm want to prove them wrong. I'm gonna do this. 139 00:08:04,440 --> 00:08:10,160 Speaker 2: It's a lot of external what's the word, like external 140 00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:13,160 Speaker 2: locus of control A little bit, I would say, okay, 141 00:08:14,440 --> 00:08:16,920 Speaker 2: because it's not like it's just in you, like I 142 00:08:16,960 --> 00:08:20,800 Speaker 2: want to be successful because just because that's in me, 143 00:08:21,240 --> 00:08:23,400 Speaker 2: it's like this person did me wrong and I'm going 144 00:08:23,440 --> 00:08:25,680 Speaker 2: to prove them wrong. Right, That's how I see the 145 00:08:25,800 --> 00:08:29,960 Speaker 2: motivation trope. Huh. And we see it. We see it 146 00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:33,480 Speaker 2: a lot. There's there's so many examples of that, and 147 00:08:33,520 --> 00:08:36,680 Speaker 2: it's like, well, if this hater never came around, would 148 00:08:36,720 --> 00:08:39,560 Speaker 2: you just be like right twiddling your thumbs. 149 00:08:39,840 --> 00:08:43,240 Speaker 1: Hmm. Yeah. I think that's a very interesting point because 150 00:08:43,280 --> 00:08:46,440 Speaker 1: from that comes this idea of like, what's the value 151 00:08:46,520 --> 00:08:50,280 Speaker 1: judgment between external factors weighing on you versus internal factors 152 00:08:50,320 --> 00:08:52,440 Speaker 1: weighing on you? And it's one better than the other. 153 00:08:52,920 --> 00:08:55,160 Speaker 1: So I see what you're saying, because in one way, 154 00:08:55,160 --> 00:08:58,320 Speaker 1: it can be the very opposite of something that's conscious 155 00:08:58,360 --> 00:09:02,200 Speaker 1: and mindful and thoughtful, because you're only doing it to 156 00:09:02,240 --> 00:09:05,640 Speaker 1: spite somebody else or to prove something to somebody else, 157 00:09:06,280 --> 00:09:10,160 Speaker 1: versus it being something that you would do without any 158 00:09:10,200 --> 00:09:13,400 Speaker 1: sort of outside sway or influence. And I think that's 159 00:09:13,440 --> 00:09:17,960 Speaker 1: an interesting conversation, but I don't necessarily think that that 160 00:09:18,080 --> 00:09:22,120 Speaker 1: negates the idea that it could be conscious, because we 161 00:09:22,160 --> 00:09:25,600 Speaker 1: live in a world right we have to interface with 162 00:09:25,679 --> 00:09:28,520 Speaker 1: other people and we have to choose how to respond 163 00:09:28,520 --> 00:09:31,840 Speaker 1: to them. And it's not like you can control what 164 00:09:31,880 --> 00:09:34,680 Speaker 1: other people say to you or do to you. You 165 00:09:34,679 --> 00:09:38,040 Speaker 1: can only choose how you respond. So pretty much everything 166 00:09:38,040 --> 00:09:41,920 Speaker 1: we do is a response, whether that's internal or external. 167 00:09:43,400 --> 00:09:45,720 Speaker 2: For sure, my mom is always telling me and Katie, 168 00:09:46,559 --> 00:09:51,360 Speaker 2: you choose how you respond to me, and I'm like, well, 169 00:09:51,440 --> 00:09:56,160 Speaker 2: I'm choosing violence, and that's valid, Katie. 170 00:09:56,200 --> 00:09:56,520 Speaker 1: Thank you. 171 00:09:58,400 --> 00:10:01,760 Speaker 2: So next is the bad trope, and this one is 172 00:10:01,800 --> 00:10:05,000 Speaker 2: a fun one, and this one, the hater hates the 173 00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:09,760 Speaker 2: Haiti succeeds despite the hate. But in a surprise twist, 174 00:10:10,120 --> 00:10:13,679 Speaker 2: the hater tries to hop on the bandwagon. But our 175 00:10:13,840 --> 00:10:18,400 Speaker 2: Haiti has not forgotten, and our Hadi reminds the hater 176 00:10:18,559 --> 00:10:21,520 Speaker 2: of their initial hater ways. Okay, so we see this 177 00:10:21,600 --> 00:10:24,880 Speaker 2: in Cardi B's Bronx season. It's a really good example. 178 00:10:25,280 --> 00:10:27,680 Speaker 3: And it's secret to me just because that you stripped, 179 00:10:27,679 --> 00:10:29,520 Speaker 3: but it's so good because now they want to get 180 00:10:29,600 --> 00:10:30,280 Speaker 3: up in my pip. 181 00:10:30,520 --> 00:10:32,120 Speaker 1: So I feel like this is one that is very 182 00:10:32,160 --> 00:10:34,840 Speaker 1: prevalent in rap. So I guess it can operate in 183 00:10:34,880 --> 00:10:38,920 Speaker 1: a way that is holding a grudge and it's something 184 00:10:38,920 --> 00:10:40,560 Speaker 1: that you're not able to let go of, but it 185 00:10:40,600 --> 00:10:43,280 Speaker 1: can also be a thing where it's boundary setting. Yes, 186 00:10:43,440 --> 00:10:45,760 Speaker 1: and it's like you did this before, I don't know 187 00:10:45,800 --> 00:10:48,000 Speaker 1: you won't do this again. Is it healthy to have 188 00:10:48,040 --> 00:10:51,000 Speaker 1: you in my life? Why are you here? Because what 189 00:10:51,040 --> 00:10:52,640 Speaker 1: are your intentions for coming back? 190 00:10:52,880 --> 00:10:53,160 Speaker 2: Snake? 191 00:10:54,960 --> 00:10:55,760 Speaker 1: What do you mean by that? 192 00:10:56,559 --> 00:11:01,240 Speaker 2: Okay? I feel like there's a lot of like childhood 193 00:11:01,520 --> 00:11:06,760 Speaker 2: fables or folk tales about like a snake that like 194 00:11:09,360 --> 00:11:12,200 Speaker 2: bites you after you help them, because it's like I 195 00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:14,120 Speaker 2: helped you, Like why would you do that? And the 196 00:11:14,120 --> 00:11:16,080 Speaker 2: snake is always like, because I'm a snake, that's what 197 00:11:16,160 --> 00:11:20,400 Speaker 2: snakes do. And it's like if a person shows you that, 198 00:11:20,520 --> 00:11:23,439 Speaker 2: when you down it out, you know, whatever that looks 199 00:11:23,480 --> 00:11:26,160 Speaker 2: like for you in this example, Carti says it was 200 00:11:26,320 --> 00:11:29,600 Speaker 2: her stripping or like, you know, trying to get it 201 00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:33,400 Speaker 2: out the mud and they hating on you, and then 202 00:11:33,440 --> 00:11:36,360 Speaker 2: when you did your big one, they want to be 203 00:11:36,400 --> 00:11:38,560 Speaker 2: in the in the group like, oh, yeah, I always 204 00:11:38,679 --> 00:11:41,240 Speaker 2: knew it, Like, no, you know you didn't. You would 205 00:11:41,240 --> 00:11:45,280 Speaker 2: actively try to make it not happen. And so I mean, 206 00:11:45,520 --> 00:11:47,760 Speaker 2: is it holding a grudge? Sure, but I feel like 207 00:11:47,760 --> 00:11:50,840 Speaker 2: that has a negative connotation. I like the boundary setting 208 00:11:51,400 --> 00:11:53,600 Speaker 2: because you already showed me who you are. And I 209 00:11:53,600 --> 00:11:55,760 Speaker 2: feel like black people love this quote. You know what 210 00:11:55,840 --> 00:11:58,480 Speaker 2: I'm gonna say, a Black people love this quote, but 211 00:11:58,600 --> 00:12:00,440 Speaker 2: it always boils down the haters on no one shows 212 00:12:00,480 --> 00:12:03,040 Speaker 2: you who they are. Believe them who they are. 213 00:12:03,320 --> 00:12:09,319 Speaker 1: Believe them, Yes, absolutely, A person says to you, I'm selfish? 214 00:12:09,960 --> 00:12:18,400 Speaker 1: Are I mean? Are I am unkind? Oh I'm crazy? 215 00:12:18,679 --> 00:12:22,320 Speaker 1: I believe them. They know themselves much better than you do. 216 00:12:23,840 --> 00:12:26,440 Speaker 1: And I think that applies, especially so in a case 217 00:12:26,480 --> 00:12:28,440 Speaker 1: like the one you just mention it, because it's like 218 00:12:29,720 --> 00:12:31,440 Speaker 1: you were doing this to that person when they were 219 00:12:31,440 --> 00:12:34,600 Speaker 1: having difficulties. It's easy to treat people well when they're 220 00:12:34,600 --> 00:12:36,439 Speaker 1: having a good time, when they're doing well in their 221 00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:39,040 Speaker 1: lives and you want to be in their circle exactly, 222 00:12:39,720 --> 00:12:42,160 Speaker 1: or when they can help add to your image in 223 00:12:42,200 --> 00:12:45,160 Speaker 1: some sort of way. But when you're down and out 224 00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:47,400 Speaker 1: and this person is hating on you and they're not 225 00:12:47,520 --> 00:12:50,319 Speaker 1: helping you out and they're not being like offering positive 226 00:12:50,360 --> 00:12:54,640 Speaker 1: reinforcement in your life, then you really just you're not 227 00:12:54,679 --> 00:12:59,920 Speaker 1: a great person. So yeah, I definitely I can see 228 00:13:00,040 --> 00:13:02,520 Speaker 1: how you would lean toward the boundary setting side, because 229 00:13:03,320 --> 00:13:05,400 Speaker 1: it can be holding a grudge, but I could see 230 00:13:05,720 --> 00:13:08,040 Speaker 1: how it would be more toward the other side, because 231 00:13:08,280 --> 00:13:11,760 Speaker 1: if you have a history of a certain relationship with somebody, 232 00:13:11,920 --> 00:13:14,200 Speaker 1: then you're gonna act in kind. You're going to act 233 00:13:14,640 --> 00:13:15,959 Speaker 1: as that person treated you. 234 00:13:17,120 --> 00:13:21,040 Speaker 2: Like, not letting them too close because you've seen how 235 00:13:21,040 --> 00:13:25,199 Speaker 2: they act. And I think if you like, oh, we're cool, 236 00:13:25,600 --> 00:13:27,440 Speaker 2: you'll always gonna be looking at them sideways anyway. 237 00:13:28,360 --> 00:13:30,920 Speaker 1: And that's where you lean into the whole situation of 238 00:13:30,960 --> 00:13:34,600 Speaker 1: being cordial, right, which is a weird place to be 239 00:13:34,679 --> 00:13:35,360 Speaker 1: in with people. 240 00:13:37,000 --> 00:13:40,440 Speaker 2: Girl, don't let me see a nigga out it's on site. 241 00:13:41,280 --> 00:13:44,480 Speaker 2: I ain't no cordial about it, you know what. And 242 00:13:44,480 --> 00:13:47,520 Speaker 2: this is like, this isn't this is a cousin to 243 00:13:48,640 --> 00:13:53,080 Speaker 2: another Another way of hating that I've seen is called 244 00:13:53,600 --> 00:13:57,360 Speaker 2: the controversy trope. Okay, so it's the cousin of the 245 00:13:57,400 --> 00:14:00,880 Speaker 2: bandwagon trope, especially in the online world. Let's say you 246 00:14:00,920 --> 00:14:05,079 Speaker 2: know another popular rapper, a popular writer. Some artists putting 247 00:14:05,080 --> 00:14:07,840 Speaker 2: out something, They're always going to be on the opposite 248 00:14:07,920 --> 00:14:10,360 Speaker 2: of what they put out, like, oh, this song is 249 00:14:10,480 --> 00:14:17,800 Speaker 2: bad or this op ed is whatever negative adjective, just 250 00:14:17,840 --> 00:14:20,080 Speaker 2: so that they can be in the news cycle, because 251 00:14:20,360 --> 00:14:22,440 Speaker 2: I feel like with journalism there's like a lot of 252 00:14:22,480 --> 00:14:26,440 Speaker 2: both siderism. So it's like, oh, well, you know, this 253 00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:30,320 Speaker 2: op ed talking about black lives matter, written by this 254 00:14:30,400 --> 00:14:35,840 Speaker 2: black journalist came out today and people found it really enlightening. 255 00:14:36,320 --> 00:14:40,280 Speaker 2: But this one conservative thinks that all black people should die, 256 00:14:40,360 --> 00:14:42,880 Speaker 2: So we have that out there too, you know what 257 00:14:42,880 --> 00:14:45,720 Speaker 2: I mean. So it's like you are like using that 258 00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:50,760 Speaker 2: person's cloud fame to elevate yourself, uh huh. And I 259 00:14:50,800 --> 00:14:53,600 Speaker 2: find it a bit disingenuous because I'm like, yeah, I 260 00:14:53,640 --> 00:14:56,920 Speaker 2: don't disagree with everything this person says, but you know 261 00:14:56,920 --> 00:14:59,400 Speaker 2: how the algorithm works, you know how the news cycles works, 262 00:15:00,240 --> 00:15:03,240 Speaker 2: so that your name could be an association with them. 263 00:15:03,280 --> 00:15:07,640 Speaker 2: So if you are googling Beyonce, if you're googling ton 264 00:15:07,640 --> 00:15:11,040 Speaker 2: of Hosey codes. If you're googling you know, whatever, famous person, 265 00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:15,440 Speaker 2: your name shows up in that and that starch history too. 266 00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:19,120 Speaker 2: So I feel like that's a cousin of the bandwagon, Yeah. 267 00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:22,240 Speaker 1: Because at once you're attaching yourself to that person in 268 00:15:22,360 --> 00:15:24,640 Speaker 1: order to feed off of their You're parasite. 269 00:15:24,920 --> 00:15:27,200 Speaker 2: Ooh, that's that's the name parasite. 270 00:15:26,760 --> 00:15:28,000 Speaker 1: The parasite trope. 271 00:15:28,160 --> 00:15:34,080 Speaker 2: Yeah. 272 00:15:34,200 --> 00:15:38,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, And that's a very of this age trope. It 273 00:15:38,240 --> 00:15:40,920 Speaker 1: feels like some of these other ones have spanned across time. 274 00:15:41,080 --> 00:15:43,200 Speaker 2: I feel like more more current. 275 00:15:43,760 --> 00:15:46,840 Speaker 1: Definitely it is, and I guess we'll see how it 276 00:15:46,880 --> 00:15:49,360 Speaker 1: continues to evolve in the future. But we should be 277 00:15:49,400 --> 00:15:52,240 Speaker 1: more self evaluatory about it, because it's so easy to 278 00:15:52,280 --> 00:15:55,960 Speaker 1: fall into these things as people who have to make 279 00:15:56,040 --> 00:15:59,480 Speaker 1: livings in this world, especially if you're a media and 280 00:15:59,520 --> 00:16:03,120 Speaker 1: you're doing online and your lifeline is kind of attached 281 00:16:03,160 --> 00:16:03,600 Speaker 1: to being. 282 00:16:03,480 --> 00:16:05,280 Speaker 2: Online, right and having an opinion. 283 00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:09,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, we're forced in these boxes. But and yet we 284 00:16:09,360 --> 00:16:13,160 Speaker 1: don't evaluate the choices that we make and the consequences 285 00:16:13,160 --> 00:16:15,960 Speaker 1: that they have, and the way that it reflects on 286 00:16:16,080 --> 00:16:18,600 Speaker 1: how we choose to talk about other people in the 287 00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:20,680 Speaker 1: world who have their own lives and their own images 288 00:16:20,720 --> 00:16:23,200 Speaker 1: to deal on their own reputations that are on the 289 00:16:23,200 --> 00:16:29,640 Speaker 1: line as well, And it's like, we're kind of damned 290 00:16:29,680 --> 00:16:31,840 Speaker 1: if we do, damned if we don't. We're damned if 291 00:16:31,880 --> 00:16:34,840 Speaker 1: we do morally ethically because of the things that we're 292 00:16:34,840 --> 00:16:38,520 Speaker 1: saying about this person for the click for the story, 293 00:16:39,120 --> 00:16:40,760 Speaker 1: But we're damned if we don't because we kind of 294 00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:42,680 Speaker 1: need to do that to be able to pop, to 295 00:16:42,720 --> 00:16:45,000 Speaker 1: stand out in this landscape. 296 00:16:45,320 --> 00:16:47,160 Speaker 2: The other thing I would say is I feel like 297 00:16:47,160 --> 00:16:50,760 Speaker 2: the Haiti definitely plays into this trope the most because 298 00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:53,360 Speaker 2: I remember, you know, there's a Reverer that I used 299 00:16:53,400 --> 00:16:55,520 Speaker 2: to like, and she would be doing cool stuff and 300 00:16:55,560 --> 00:16:59,240 Speaker 2: you know, comment little positive things like oh you killing it, 301 00:16:59,280 --> 00:17:01,720 Speaker 2: go girl, love to see it, blah blah blah, and 302 00:17:02,240 --> 00:17:07,560 Speaker 2: you know, as social media is an interaction, but I 303 00:17:07,680 --> 00:17:13,040 Speaker 2: noticed that she would never reply to any positive comments 304 00:17:13,040 --> 00:17:15,719 Speaker 2: about her. But at what, like there could be one 305 00:17:15,800 --> 00:17:18,600 Speaker 2: hundred positive comments, let one person say something negative. She's 306 00:17:18,600 --> 00:17:23,440 Speaker 2: writing a five paragraph essay and I'm like, girl, are 307 00:17:23,480 --> 00:17:25,239 Speaker 2: you dumb? Like what do you think this is going 308 00:17:25,320 --> 00:17:28,120 Speaker 2: to do? So next time, when someone knows that they 309 00:17:28,200 --> 00:17:31,879 Speaker 2: want your attention, want you to respond to them. What 310 00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:33,960 Speaker 2: do you think they're going to do. They're going to 311 00:17:34,040 --> 00:17:36,240 Speaker 2: say something negative because they know that really gets under 312 00:17:36,240 --> 00:17:36,840 Speaker 2: your skin. 313 00:17:37,440 --> 00:17:39,560 Speaker 1: And it's so fulfilling cycle. 314 00:17:39,880 --> 00:17:42,320 Speaker 2: Yeah for sure, because like I mean, I know, I'm 315 00:17:42,320 --> 00:17:47,040 Speaker 2: not going to say nothing crazy publicly about anybody, but 316 00:17:47,200 --> 00:17:48,439 Speaker 2: like some people are just like, well, I want her 317 00:17:48,480 --> 00:17:51,400 Speaker 2: to respond either way. So I'm not gonna say anything 318 00:17:51,440 --> 00:17:53,320 Speaker 2: nice because she doesn't respond to anything nice, you know. 319 00:17:54,119 --> 00:17:57,080 Speaker 2: So I feel like this trope in particular, parasites are 320 00:17:57,119 --> 00:17:59,240 Speaker 2: annoying and you want to scratch at them and pick 321 00:17:59,240 --> 00:18:01,640 Speaker 2: at them and like get off me. But I feel 322 00:18:01,640 --> 00:18:02,720 Speaker 2: like it just attracts more. 323 00:18:04,600 --> 00:18:05,359 Speaker 1: And that's the word. 324 00:18:08,280 --> 00:18:11,879 Speaker 2: Okay, okay, okay, this is my favorite trope. Okay are 325 00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:12,320 Speaker 2: you ready? 326 00:18:12,440 --> 00:18:13,000 Speaker 1: I'm ready. 327 00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:17,760 Speaker 2: I call it the old switch roo. So in the 328 00:18:17,800 --> 00:18:21,359 Speaker 2: old switcher root, we have a secret hater and the 329 00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:26,080 Speaker 2: secret hater only likes the hat when they're struggling, you know, 330 00:18:26,280 --> 00:18:29,440 Speaker 2: trying to make it but really not there. But when 331 00:18:29,560 --> 00:18:34,720 Speaker 2: the haiti becomes successful bounced switcheroo, the hater reveals their 332 00:18:34,760 --> 00:18:36,120 Speaker 2: true hater ways. 333 00:18:37,880 --> 00:18:40,199 Speaker 1: Okay, so why is this your favorite? You know? 334 00:18:40,280 --> 00:18:43,440 Speaker 2: I like the drama, the intrigue. The hater's a little steals, 335 00:18:43,560 --> 00:18:45,960 Speaker 2: probably sabotage in the Haiti, so they remain in the 336 00:18:46,040 --> 00:18:48,359 Speaker 2: muck and the mud with them. 337 00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:49,720 Speaker 1: So are you this type of hater? 338 00:18:50,720 --> 00:18:53,320 Speaker 2: No, if I'm hating on you, you will not be in 339 00:18:53,600 --> 00:18:58,840 Speaker 2: under any illusion that we're friends. So you're safe, okay, 340 00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:03,000 Speaker 2: and you don't follow rappers personalized. But the person that 341 00:19:03,040 --> 00:19:06,439 Speaker 2: comes to mind to me for falling victim to this 342 00:19:06,600 --> 00:19:09,280 Speaker 2: trope in particular is Megan thee Stallion. She addressed the 343 00:19:09,320 --> 00:19:13,400 Speaker 2: situation with her best her ex best friend, and her 344 00:19:13,440 --> 00:19:14,680 Speaker 2: song ungrateful. 345 00:19:15,320 --> 00:19:18,560 Speaker 1: If I was still and you broke in, we won't 346 00:19:18,560 --> 00:19:20,720 Speaker 1: be I feel like this is an antithesis of the 347 00:19:20,800 --> 00:19:25,520 Speaker 1: last one, because when they're down and out, everything's cool. Yeah, 348 00:19:25,560 --> 00:19:30,320 Speaker 1: And then once a person gets some fame, gets people 349 00:19:30,359 --> 00:19:32,919 Speaker 1: talking about them, is in the news, is in the press, 350 00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:36,000 Speaker 1: or they're just or they're just watching them, and they're 351 00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:38,400 Speaker 1: in a position that they want to be in, then 352 00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:41,439 Speaker 1: then that's when they become a hater. But they've been 353 00:19:41,440 --> 00:19:43,160 Speaker 1: a hater all along, is what you're saying. 354 00:19:43,520 --> 00:19:44,199 Speaker 2: It was latent. 355 00:19:44,480 --> 00:19:45,359 Speaker 1: It was latent, okay. 356 00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:47,840 Speaker 2: So I think if the person never became successful, you 357 00:19:47,880 --> 00:19:48,639 Speaker 2: would never see that. 358 00:19:49,040 --> 00:19:53,520 Speaker 1: Okay, okay, oh that is that's a stressful way to 359 00:19:53,520 --> 00:19:55,359 Speaker 1: be That's a stressful way to live as a person 360 00:19:55,480 --> 00:20:01,520 Speaker 1: because that means that you're like for somebody is disingenuine 361 00:20:01,560 --> 00:20:05,040 Speaker 1: the whole time. But also like, let people be successful 362 00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:09,040 Speaker 1: because there's only so much room in life to do things, 363 00:20:09,080 --> 00:20:12,959 Speaker 1: and like so few of us are going to be successful. 364 00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:15,480 Speaker 1: I guess in like grand or larger than life ways. 365 00:20:16,600 --> 00:20:19,160 Speaker 1: So I don't know, I don't like this one KB. 366 00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:20,840 Speaker 1: This is this one bothers me? 367 00:20:21,040 --> 00:20:24,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, and that said it's my favorite. Yeah. I think 368 00:20:24,720 --> 00:20:28,199 Speaker 2: it's the thing about proximity. You know, maybe they aren't 369 00:20:28,240 --> 00:20:31,440 Speaker 2: self aware enough to know that they were going to 370 00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:36,080 Speaker 2: have this reaction, but because of the proximity, it's like 371 00:20:36,119 --> 00:20:39,040 Speaker 2: we're friends, Damn, we like the same beach, Like why 372 00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:39,359 Speaker 2: not me? 373 00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:40,200 Speaker 1: You know what I mean? 374 00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:42,679 Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying. So it's like, for in 375 00:20:42,800 --> 00:20:46,640 Speaker 2: Megan's case, her friend who I believe she's known since 376 00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:51,359 Speaker 2: at least college, you know, this girl wrote a distrack, 377 00:20:51,520 --> 00:20:54,560 Speaker 2: a rap distract to began this stallion. So it's clearly 378 00:20:54,560 --> 00:20:56,320 Speaker 2: you're like, oh, I could do it, she do I 379 00:20:56,320 --> 00:21:01,119 Speaker 2: can rap too. It was terrible you're not Megan, sweetie. Embarrassing, 380 00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:05,720 Speaker 2: so embarrassing, But it's like the why not me? And 381 00:21:06,119 --> 00:21:09,600 Speaker 2: because of the proximity, it's like, even because I feel 382 00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:12,359 Speaker 2: like haters at the core, it's always why not me? 383 00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:17,119 Speaker 2: But because you know that person that switcher rough happens 384 00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:19,800 Speaker 2: that you might not see coming as the hater. 385 00:21:21,160 --> 00:21:23,359 Speaker 1: See. The only thing I will push back on is 386 00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:25,480 Speaker 1: I wouldn't say across the board, it's always a why 387 00:21:25,480 --> 00:21:28,159 Speaker 1: not me? I think you're giving humanity a little too 388 00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:30,720 Speaker 1: much credit and saying that it's probably always why not me? 389 00:21:30,760 --> 00:21:32,639 Speaker 1: Because I think sometimes people just want to see the 390 00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:38,480 Speaker 1: world burn. They just don't they don't care. It enlivens 391 00:21:38,560 --> 00:21:43,639 Speaker 1: them to release this hate and energy. How do you 392 00:21:43,760 --> 00:21:47,199 Speaker 1: feel about this trope? Like do you think that it 393 00:21:47,280 --> 00:21:51,399 Speaker 1: is one that is prevalent in our time right now? 394 00:21:52,640 --> 00:21:54,840 Speaker 2: Yeah? I mean, and even what you said about like 395 00:21:55,760 --> 00:21:57,800 Speaker 2: our lives are sure and like not all of us 396 00:21:57,840 --> 00:22:00,320 Speaker 2: are gonna be successful in like these really grandiose ways. 397 00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:03,480 Speaker 2: I think it doesn't even have to be grandiose. I 398 00:22:03,520 --> 00:22:08,639 Speaker 2: think I could get a fucking new a new Honda Civic. 399 00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:11,720 Speaker 2: IM just don't like to too. 400 00:22:12,040 --> 00:22:16,560 Speaker 1: What can be riding down the street and you get to 401 00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:18,600 Speaker 1: a red light and they're looking at you real say, wait, 402 00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:19,760 Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying. 403 00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:25,760 Speaker 2: It doesn't have to be grandiose. It could just be like, dang, 404 00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:28,400 Speaker 2: like she she got a new job before I did. 405 00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:33,200 Speaker 2: I can't believe that she. I don't know, she got 406 00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:35,040 Speaker 2: on a cute outfit and I don't. You know what 407 00:22:35,080 --> 00:22:37,320 Speaker 2: I'm saying. It really doesn't have to be grandiose. It's like, 408 00:22:38,119 --> 00:22:40,920 Speaker 2: it's it's levels to this, and I feel like this 409 00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:45,160 Speaker 2: trope falls on every level. But I do think it's 410 00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:47,639 Speaker 2: the proximity and the friendship or even maybe like a 411 00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:50,760 Speaker 2: familial relationship where you can see this a lot of 412 00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:53,200 Speaker 2: the times because people they grow up seeing you a 413 00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:56,639 Speaker 2: certain way and they want it's comfortable for you. Be 414 00:22:56,720 --> 00:22:58,959 Speaker 2: like that's her, I know her, she's like this. But 415 00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:02,000 Speaker 2: then when it's such a when you see a change, 416 00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:04,480 Speaker 2: it's like that makes me a little uncomfortable. 417 00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:09,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, what a sad way to walk through life. I'm 418 00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:12,879 Speaker 1: sorry to these people. Sorry to that man. Okay, So 419 00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:15,479 Speaker 1: I noticed that all of your examples came from songs, 420 00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:20,199 Speaker 1: specifically a rap songs. So are rappers getting hated on disproportionately? 421 00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:22,520 Speaker 1: Is this like a systemic issue or something. 422 00:23:23,520 --> 00:23:26,040 Speaker 2: I noticed that too, and I don't think so. We 423 00:23:26,119 --> 00:23:29,080 Speaker 2: definitely have some R and B hater bombs like Dustney's 424 00:23:29,119 --> 00:23:32,199 Speaker 2: Child So Good, where Beyonce says this is for them 425 00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:34,440 Speaker 2: haters that said we wouldn't make it. Now we're doing 426 00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:36,760 Speaker 2: platinum and now y'all can't take it. For all the 427 00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:40,000 Speaker 2: people around us, it's been negative. Look at us, now, 428 00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:41,160 Speaker 2: see how we live. 429 00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:44,000 Speaker 1: That sounds like it fits into the motivation trope. 430 00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:49,359 Speaker 2: Ah, yes, young guys happened. Indeed, I learned quickly. But 431 00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:52,320 Speaker 2: I do think the nature of hip hop, the bravado, 432 00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:56,840 Speaker 2: the grit, lends itself to this theme. I'm sure blue 433 00:23:56,920 --> 00:23:59,320 Speaker 2: singers were getting hated on too, but because of what 434 00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:02,920 Speaker 2: blues is as a genre, they probably felt more defeated 435 00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:06,720 Speaker 2: after the interaction, like Buddy Guy talking about I can't 436 00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:11,600 Speaker 2: win because I don't have a thing to lose, Like uhuh. 437 00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:14,280 Speaker 1: I'd be surprised to hear a rapper admit. 438 00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:16,480 Speaker 2: That it ain't gonna happen if they ain't won, the 439 00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:18,080 Speaker 2: story ain't done in the facts. 440 00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:22,120 Speaker 1: I do think the hater is a fruitful storytelling device, though, 441 00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:26,119 Speaker 1: like all good stories, have some sort of conflict and 442 00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:29,000 Speaker 1: when you're talking about a hater, the conflict is central, 443 00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:33,000 Speaker 1: and it gives the audience clear heroes versus villains. 444 00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:36,760 Speaker 2: And haters get the stories we tell ourselves structure and 445 00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:38,080 Speaker 2: meaning interesting. 446 00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:39,200 Speaker 1: Can you elaborate on that? 447 00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:42,040 Speaker 2: Like I used to find myself assigning meaning to the 448 00:24:42,119 --> 00:24:44,520 Speaker 2: bad things that happened to me, Like this had to 449 00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:46,680 Speaker 2: happen so I'd have a reason to go so hard 450 00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:49,840 Speaker 2: and succeed. A lot of the stories we consume teach 451 00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:52,560 Speaker 2: us that life cannot be easy, and not only are 452 00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:57,440 Speaker 2: hardships inevitable, they're necessary. So I think haters are a 453 00:24:57,480 --> 00:24:59,840 Speaker 2: good plug in for an obstacle on the way to greatness. 454 00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:03,600 Speaker 2: Without haters, the story would be incomplete. Yeah at the 455 00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:07,400 Speaker 2: real Arian jokes about it in this TikTok perfectly. I'm 456 00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:09,639 Speaker 2: trying to build rapple. Let me start. 457 00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:10,399 Speaker 1: Stop helping me. 458 00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:13,760 Speaker 3: I can't get on the track and say my family 459 00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:16,560 Speaker 3: ain't never want me to make it. My family never 460 00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:19,080 Speaker 3: they always hated on me. If y'all keep looking out 461 00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:21,520 Speaker 3: for me, I need a story that what people want 462 00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:21,800 Speaker 3: to heal. 463 00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:26,040 Speaker 2: Sometimes you absolutely need a hater to tell your story. 464 00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:29,200 Speaker 1: So what are some other examples of haters outside of music, 465 00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:31,280 Speaker 1: I would assume that there's a bunch of them. 466 00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:34,480 Speaker 2: For sure. For sure. What I found interesting was that 467 00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:37,920 Speaker 2: the more long form storytelling, the narrator usually doesn't call 468 00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:40,520 Speaker 2: the hater a hater out right, and the haters I 469 00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:43,320 Speaker 2: encountered in books and in news stories had their own tropes. 470 00:25:44,359 --> 00:25:46,119 Speaker 1: That's interesting. So why do you think that is? 471 00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:48,679 Speaker 2: Probably because if you're writing a book, you're looking at 472 00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:51,840 Speaker 2: events over a longer view. So instead of saying this 473 00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:54,920 Speaker 2: person is a hater, someone writing a novel or a 474 00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:57,359 Speaker 2: memoir will tell a story and write a scene that 475 00:25:57,480 --> 00:26:00,640 Speaker 2: clearly shows, hey, we got some hatter over here. 476 00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:03,240 Speaker 1: It's a little bit more subtle, yeah, just. 477 00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:05,639 Speaker 2: A tad letting the audience come to their own conclusions 478 00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:06,880 Speaker 2: through witnessing actions. 479 00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:09,680 Speaker 1: And because songs are short, you got to get in 480 00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:11,879 Speaker 1: and get out. You really have to get to the point. 481 00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:14,560 Speaker 2: And for long form haters, they seem to have more power. 482 00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:18,159 Speaker 2: The haters were more powerful, m which brings us to 483 00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:22,320 Speaker 2: our next trope, the old hater old baby more after 484 00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:33,560 Speaker 2: the break back with some old haters. 485 00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:35,200 Speaker 1: Okay, oh goodness. 486 00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:38,160 Speaker 2: Can you tell me what this trope is? By the title, 487 00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:40,000 Speaker 2: I mean, I have an idea. 488 00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:41,960 Speaker 1: Based on what the title is. Are you saying that 489 00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:44,399 Speaker 1: an old person is hating on a younger one? Ding 490 00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:48,080 Speaker 1: ding ding? Okay, so here comes to generation wars. 491 00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:51,680 Speaker 2: I have receipts, and it's just not an old person 492 00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:54,960 Speaker 2: hating on someone because they're young. It's usually an older 493 00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:57,560 Speaker 2: person who is in the same field or industry hating 494 00:26:57,600 --> 00:27:00,280 Speaker 2: on someone in a newer generation who is is in 495 00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:04,120 Speaker 2: their review, surpassing them or doing it the wrong way. 496 00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:07,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's kind of like that should be me or 497 00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:10,280 Speaker 1: similar to like an okay boomer situation for. 498 00:27:10,359 --> 00:27:15,200 Speaker 2: Sure, like Jesse Jackson, Oh hair, not Jesse Jackson. You 499 00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:28,879 Speaker 2: gonna maybe you roll a clip? Oh no, Well, actually 500 00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:32,280 Speaker 2: the audio isn't the best because sneaky Jesse Jackson was 501 00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:34,879 Speaker 2: whispering on the hot mic. But what he said was 502 00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:39,840 Speaker 2: Barack he's talking down to black people on the faith 503 00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:42,840 Speaker 2: based I want to cut his nuts off. 504 00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:44,639 Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, I forgot about that. 505 00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:47,159 Speaker 2: The year was two thousand and eight. Barack Obama was 506 00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:50,080 Speaker 2: campaigning to become the first black president of the United States, 507 00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:51,840 Speaker 2: and what was Jesse Jackson doing? 508 00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:52,159 Speaker 1: What? 509 00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:56,160 Speaker 2: Hey? And why what's it? Because Barack Obama was talking 510 00:27:56,240 --> 00:27:58,280 Speaker 2: down to black people, as he stated on the hot mic, 511 00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:02,639 Speaker 2: Or was really because Jesse Jackson ran to be the 512 00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:06,119 Speaker 2: first black president in eighty eight? Was it because Jackson 513 00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:09,480 Speaker 2: Jackson was looking at Barock thinking that should have been me? 514 00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:14,200 Speaker 2: Damn Jesse, And Jesse ain't the only old hater in 515 00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:17,240 Speaker 2: the political arena, girl, I know the political arena is 516 00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:20,440 Speaker 2: full of haters, all of them and democracy and black 517 00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:23,480 Speaker 2: Eddie god Junior writes about al Sharpton Hatten on Black 518 00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:28,080 Speaker 2: Lives Matter protesters during his eulogy of Mike Brown. Al 519 00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:32,040 Speaker 2: Sharpton through a job talking about some leaders, mad about 520 00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:35,359 Speaker 2: other leaders, more folks worried about getting on the program 521 00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:37,160 Speaker 2: than developing a program. 522 00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:39,320 Speaker 1: That's a bold choice for eulogy. 523 00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:42,960 Speaker 2: But then in a Washington Post profile he went in 524 00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:46,680 Speaker 2: talking about I heard them saying that we don't want 525 00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:50,680 Speaker 2: Sharpton taking over our movement. But my question is what movement? 526 00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:53,720 Speaker 2: Y'all ain't got nothing to take over? How comes Sharpton 527 00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:57,240 Speaker 2: sleas in march? Because I organize the march, I brought 528 00:28:57,320 --> 00:29:00,719 Speaker 2: the crowd, I got the permit. Those parts cost us 529 00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:04,160 Speaker 2: twenty thousand dollars. You want to run the march, fine, 530 00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:07,080 Speaker 2: get your own. Damn poor to potties, m you sound 531 00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:11,960 Speaker 2: just like a girl petty petty, very petty, very old hater. 532 00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:16,120 Speaker 2: But in both examples, the old hater has some power still, 533 00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:19,160 Speaker 2: even if it's waning. They're of a mindset that there 534 00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:21,240 Speaker 2: can only be one and it better be them. 535 00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:22,960 Speaker 1: So I don't think you have to be old to 536 00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:24,800 Speaker 1: have that mindset, though, no. 537 00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:27,239 Speaker 2: I agree. We see this in the novel The Other 538 00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:29,880 Speaker 2: Black Girl, which looks at office politics and the need 539 00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:31,880 Speaker 2: for some black people to be the only one or 540 00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:32,720 Speaker 2: the favorite one. 541 00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:35,200 Speaker 1: So can you give the people a little synopsis? 542 00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:37,800 Speaker 2: Yeah? So The Other Black Girl is set in the 543 00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:41,560 Speaker 2: New York publishing industry, which is notoriously white. We have 544 00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:45,320 Speaker 2: the protagonist, Nella and the other Black Girl, Hazel. Hazel 545 00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:48,320 Speaker 2: is hired at Nella's publishing house and Nella's excited to 546 00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:50,720 Speaker 2: have a friend, but Hazel ain't there to make friends. 547 00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:54,280 Speaker 2: She scoops Nella on a manuscript and has hours long 548 00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:56,640 Speaker 2: secret meetings with Nella's boss, and of course this leads 549 00:29:56,680 --> 00:29:58,840 Speaker 2: to Hazel being the office favorite and it threatens to 550 00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:00,000 Speaker 2: sideline Nella's curry. 551 00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:02,240 Speaker 1: Honestly, that's relatable. 552 00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:06,280 Speaker 2: Yep, Mine eyes have seen the hated land. You remember 553 00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:10,640 Speaker 2: Invisible Man when the narrator finds out mister Bledsoe wrote 554 00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:13,720 Speaker 2: him a negative letter of recommendation while pretending that he 555 00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:16,200 Speaker 2: was supporting him, which is the reason why he wasn't 556 00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:19,560 Speaker 2: able to get into college. Mister Blodsoe was white and 557 00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:22,840 Speaker 2: the unnamed narrator was black, and the narrator getting into 558 00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:26,240 Speaker 2: college wouldn't hurt mister Blodsoe in any way. He was 559 00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:28,760 Speaker 2: already successful white man in a whole other state. But 560 00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:30,560 Speaker 2: he still went out of his way to be a hater. 561 00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:34,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, there are some haters that be hating in truly 562 00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:37,920 Speaker 1: nonsensical ways. Mister Bloodsoe saw the narrator's light and he 563 00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:38,840 Speaker 1: tried to put it out. 564 00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:41,920 Speaker 2: I don't even know what I call that trope hating 565 00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:44,760 Speaker 2: to be hating, I guess I think if I were 566 00:30:44,840 --> 00:30:46,960 Speaker 2: to trit about haters, I do it in the fictional 567 00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:51,600 Speaker 2: long form way, because I'm no songwriter or memoirs. But 568 00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:55,080 Speaker 2: I make it a personal rule to not bring up 569 00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:58,680 Speaker 2: my haters in public forums. Like imagine you're giving an interview, 570 00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:02,400 Speaker 2: reading your wedding, or even delivering an acceptance speech, and 571 00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:05,200 Speaker 2: you use even a fraction of that time to address 572 00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:07,800 Speaker 2: a hater. The hater want too at that point, like 573 00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:09,560 Speaker 2: break off a piece of that award and hand it 574 00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:12,680 Speaker 2: over because they're winning in that moment. Basically, let me 575 00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:15,720 Speaker 2: tell it, and nobody did anything wrong to me. Everyone's 576 00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:17,840 Speaker 2: shown love. I like to thank God and my mom 577 00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:18,480 Speaker 2: a period. 578 00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:21,600 Speaker 1: You say that, but the people don't know you lying 579 00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:22,600 Speaker 1: about it. 580 00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:25,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean they can't prove it unless someone comes 581 00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:30,200 Speaker 2: out like no, I hate her, which is what we. 582 00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:32,560 Speaker 1: All want anywhere like that would be a moment of 583 00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:34,719 Speaker 1: drama that nobody would be mad at. 584 00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:37,200 Speaker 2: I actually hate her, immad she. 585 00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:43,600 Speaker 1: Is succeeding Katie. Where is that beat coming from? 586 00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:46,440 Speaker 2: It's coming from the heart. You know, you rarely hear 587 00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:50,600 Speaker 2: from the haters themselves, but that changes today. You want 588 00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:53,240 Speaker 2: to know why I'm hating knowing you because I'm a hater. 589 00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:55,800 Speaker 2: That's what haters do. Duh. I'm in a Honda, you 590 00:31:55,880 --> 00:31:58,360 Speaker 2: whip been arranged. I see you out. I'm a hater 591 00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:01,320 Speaker 2: on everything. Those full eyebrows, I hate them. You're outfit. 592 00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:03,600 Speaker 2: Gonna shade it. Hate it is a game, and baby, 593 00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:05,680 Speaker 2: I'm gonna play it. Do not collect to hunt it, 594 00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:08,160 Speaker 2: do not press go, because when I hate boot, it 595 00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:08,920 Speaker 2: won't be low. 596 00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:10,160 Speaker 1: I won't stop. 597 00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:12,640 Speaker 2: Even when you're at the top, I'll be waiting for 598 00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:15,240 Speaker 2: a bucket in a moth hating on you. It's so 599 00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:18,480 Speaker 2: much fun. Bonnie and Clyde. I hate on the Run, 600 00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:21,800 Speaker 2: Smitti Weber Men Jensen. I hate her number one. 601 00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:27,200 Speaker 1: Y'all. 602 00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:39,080 Speaker 2: Somebody signed me. Now it's time for roll credits, Eves. 603 00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:42,040 Speaker 2: Who or what would you like to give credit to 604 00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:42,520 Speaker 2: this week? 605 00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:44,959 Speaker 1: I would like to give credit to Katie for him 606 00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:49,040 Speaker 1: impeccable wrapping skills that she has been developing and honing 607 00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:54,520 Speaker 1: since we were in middle school. Yes, making raps together. 608 00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:58,200 Speaker 1: I am so proud of you, Katie. Thank you. Who 609 00:32:58,240 --> 00:32:59,560 Speaker 1: would you like to give credit to today? 610 00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:03,680 Speaker 2: I would like to give credit to soup. Homemade soup 611 00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:07,440 Speaker 2: is good. You know what I'm saying. I love making 612 00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:10,560 Speaker 2: homemade soup for other people. I was under the imperson 613 00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:13,320 Speaker 2: that homemade soup was like inferior at one point. I 614 00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:16,520 Speaker 2: think because we grew up in a very manufactured tie yeah, 615 00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:19,800 Speaker 2: very nineties, and you want to go to McDonald's, very soup, 616 00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:24,360 Speaker 2: can get that chili, But the homemade soup is where 617 00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:24,680 Speaker 2: it's at. 618 00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:27,960 Speaker 1: And on that note, we'll link to the songs we 619 00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:30,520 Speaker 1: mentioned today in the show notes for this episode at 620 00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:34,040 Speaker 1: on Theme dot Show. We'll be back next episode. 621 00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:34,920 Speaker 2: See You. 622 00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:43,080 Speaker 1: On Theme is a production of iHeartRadio and Fairweather Friends Media. 623 00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:46,800 Speaker 1: This episode was written by Eves, Jeffco and Katie Mitchell. 624 00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:50,600 Speaker 1: It was edited and produced by Tari Harrison. Follow us 625 00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:54,040 Speaker 1: on Instagram at on Themeshow. You can also send us 626 00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:58,440 Speaker 1: an email at hello at on Theme dot Show. Head 627 00:33:58,480 --> 00:33:59,920 Speaker 1: to on Theme dot Show to check out the sh 628 00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:05,080 Speaker 1: for episodes. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, 629 00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:08,800 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.