1 00:00:05,280 --> 00:00:09,120 Speaker 1: I'm Eric Alexander, and I'm whitneyed out. Welcome to Reparations, 2 00:00:09,160 --> 00:00:11,920 Speaker 1: The Big Payback, a production of Color Farm Media, I 3 00:00:12,080 --> 00:00:17,159 Speaker 1: Heart Radio and The Black Effect podcast Network. I like 4 00:00:17,360 --> 00:00:21,959 Speaker 1: that poem indictious and it talks about being bloody, but 5 00:00:22,079 --> 00:00:26,280 Speaker 1: I'm bowed and that from the minute I read that 6 00:00:26,360 --> 00:00:31,960 Speaker 1: poem in elementary school, I made that my creed. I 7 00:00:32,080 --> 00:00:34,920 Speaker 1: may be bloody, but every time you knocked me down, 8 00:00:34,960 --> 00:00:38,559 Speaker 1: I'm gonna be like that punch clown. I gotta get up. 9 00:00:39,080 --> 00:00:43,879 Speaker 1: I felt that, and maybe I felt that because I 10 00:00:43,960 --> 00:00:48,760 Speaker 1: was this orphan and sometimes I knew I had to 11 00:00:48,840 --> 00:00:51,600 Speaker 1: keep my head down. But all of those lessons I 12 00:00:51,680 --> 00:00:55,000 Speaker 1: tried to teach my kids, not so much about sitting 13 00:00:55,080 --> 00:00:59,200 Speaker 1: down talking to y'all, but letting you see me live 14 00:00:59,320 --> 00:01:02,600 Speaker 1: through that. And I think that I got a pretty 15 00:01:02,680 --> 00:01:08,600 Speaker 1: strong group of kids that expected that dude had certain 16 00:01:08,680 --> 00:01:14,560 Speaker 1: expectations of them. Is that your mom? Now I know 17 00:01:14,680 --> 00:01:19,120 Speaker 1: where you get such self confidence? Yeah? Yeah, that's Sammy 18 00:01:19,200 --> 00:01:22,600 Speaker 1: Jean Amy Holman Alexander, and I am her daughter, and 19 00:01:22,720 --> 00:01:26,840 Speaker 1: she is my north star. She has three last names 20 00:01:27,280 --> 00:01:29,080 Speaker 1: because she's had a lot of lives, not because she's 21 00:01:29,160 --> 00:01:32,120 Speaker 1: Liz Taylor Kim Kardashian. She's like a cat, and I 22 00:01:32,160 --> 00:01:34,520 Speaker 1: think she's on her seventh right now. That's a lot 23 00:01:34,520 --> 00:01:36,480 Speaker 1: of lives and a lot of names. Did she also 24 00:01:36,560 --> 00:01:40,640 Speaker 1: give you the Great at the end of yours? No, 25 00:01:40,800 --> 00:01:42,560 Speaker 1: but she was fought a teacher that wanted me to 26 00:01:42,600 --> 00:01:44,479 Speaker 1: take it off my papers. I used to sign all 27 00:01:44,520 --> 00:01:47,640 Speaker 1: my papers and class with Eric Alexander the Great. Now 28 00:01:47,760 --> 00:01:49,880 Speaker 1: she likes all that, But Whitney, when we started this 29 00:01:50,040 --> 00:01:53,120 Speaker 1: rock in Reparations Adventure, we said that we would talk 30 00:01:53,160 --> 00:01:56,360 Speaker 1: more about our origin story. So I decided to talk 31 00:01:56,360 --> 00:01:58,840 Speaker 1: to my mother. And she's like a walkman. You can 32 00:01:58,920 --> 00:02:01,240 Speaker 1: push play and she's off to the races. She's a 33 00:02:01,240 --> 00:02:05,600 Speaker 1: real grio and she remembers everything but her origin story. 34 00:02:05,840 --> 00:02:09,280 Speaker 1: It's pretty awesome. She's one of eleven. I think I've 35 00:02:09,280 --> 00:02:11,880 Speaker 1: told you a little bit of about her. She was 36 00:02:12,200 --> 00:02:15,280 Speaker 1: her mother's last child. She was born in Karneck, Texas. 37 00:02:15,320 --> 00:02:17,880 Speaker 1: That's where Lady Burt Johnson is from. She was raised 38 00:02:17,919 --> 00:02:20,960 Speaker 1: in Carl's Bad, New Mexico. She was orphaned twice, first 39 00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:22,880 Speaker 1: by her mother and father when she was young, and 40 00:02:22,919 --> 00:02:26,239 Speaker 1: then when she was adopted. Her adopted mother passed away 41 00:02:26,280 --> 00:02:29,320 Speaker 1: when she was a teenager, and she basically was sent 42 00:02:29,360 --> 00:02:31,560 Speaker 1: out of the house and had to hit the road 43 00:02:31,639 --> 00:02:34,760 Speaker 1: with my father. They we both were traveling evangelists and 44 00:02:34,960 --> 00:02:38,239 Speaker 1: he was itinerant. She married him, my preacher father, who 45 00:02:38,280 --> 00:02:41,040 Speaker 1: was also an orphan. They had six kids. I am 46 00:02:41,120 --> 00:02:44,639 Speaker 1: one of them. You're welcome, America. And though she was 47 00:02:44,680 --> 00:02:47,359 Speaker 1: widowed a forty nine, she earned a master's degree in 48 00:02:47,440 --> 00:02:51,520 Speaker 1: early childhood education and she started to write children's books. Yeah. Oh, 49 00:02:51,560 --> 00:02:54,040 Speaker 1: and here are hobbies. She likes Macromay, tea cakes and 50 00:02:54,160 --> 00:02:57,480 Speaker 1: Dr Pimple Papa. Yeah. But you know, I was talking 51 00:02:57,760 --> 00:03:00,920 Speaker 1: to my mom about our reparations journey and the Privileged game, 52 00:03:01,320 --> 00:03:02,880 Speaker 1: the game that we did when we were in front 53 00:03:02,919 --> 00:03:05,680 Speaker 1: of Grant's tomb and we would ask each other's questions, 54 00:03:05,760 --> 00:03:07,600 Speaker 1: and you know, you go forward and then I would 55 00:03:07,760 --> 00:03:10,000 Speaker 1: end up stain back, and you know, you're halfway up 56 00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:13,160 Speaker 1: the block because you're white and male and privileged and 57 00:03:13,200 --> 00:03:15,360 Speaker 1: all the other good stuff you get from being in 58 00:03:15,400 --> 00:03:18,720 Speaker 1: the Book of Doo. But anyway, I asked her, what 59 00:03:18,760 --> 00:03:23,000 Speaker 1: were her thoughts about white privilege and or just privilege 60 00:03:23,200 --> 00:03:27,480 Speaker 1: in general. Well, I'm certain that there is white privilege 61 00:03:27,560 --> 00:03:31,880 Speaker 1: anytime one group can make laws and enact them to 62 00:03:32,200 --> 00:03:37,880 Speaker 1: benefit themselves, whether they're white or whatever their color. If 63 00:03:37,920 --> 00:03:41,400 Speaker 1: they can benefit them to themselves and use them to 64 00:03:41,640 --> 00:03:49,120 Speaker 1: deny other people their equality, then of course that's privilege. 65 00:03:49,360 --> 00:03:53,600 Speaker 1: And in America that happens to be primarily wide privilege, 66 00:03:54,280 --> 00:03:58,640 Speaker 1: white privilege. That's really America's origin story, right. And what 67 00:03:58,720 --> 00:04:01,960 Speaker 1: it's so interesting listening to your mom talk about this 68 00:04:02,200 --> 00:04:05,200 Speaker 1: is that the idea of white privilege means something very 69 00:04:05,240 --> 00:04:07,480 Speaker 1: different in two thousand twenty one than it did when 70 00:04:07,480 --> 00:04:09,680 Speaker 1: she was a child. And back then, I think white 71 00:04:09,680 --> 00:04:13,040 Speaker 1: privilege was just white people doing their thing. Yeah, they 72 00:04:13,040 --> 00:04:16,640 Speaker 1: were doing a thing and they still are doing their thing. Well. Anyway, 73 00:04:16,680 --> 00:04:18,960 Speaker 1: my mother starts reminisce and she's talking about her life, 74 00:04:19,160 --> 00:04:21,839 Speaker 1: how she grew up. Even told me stories about my 75 00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:24,120 Speaker 1: life as a child. It was pretty cool. Yeah, our 76 00:04:24,200 --> 00:04:27,320 Speaker 1: origin stories, the ones that our family tells us about ourselves, 77 00:04:27,360 --> 00:04:31,040 Speaker 1: about our family, our history. They're so important because they 78 00:04:31,120 --> 00:04:34,040 Speaker 1: kind of help us think about how we're going to 79 00:04:34,279 --> 00:04:36,920 Speaker 1: chart our way through the world, that we're sort of 80 00:04:36,960 --> 00:04:39,800 Speaker 1: carrying the story with us as we go. Yeah, it's 81 00:04:39,880 --> 00:04:43,080 Speaker 1: nature versus nurture. Think of America as this big oak 82 00:04:43,120 --> 00:04:47,200 Speaker 1: tree with these deep roots and we fit it, and 83 00:04:47,200 --> 00:04:50,520 Speaker 1: we're pretty fertilizer and watering it. But you know, we 84 00:04:50,600 --> 00:04:53,680 Speaker 1: are judged by the fruit it bears, you know. And 85 00:04:53,760 --> 00:04:56,480 Speaker 1: so I think, now we're getting a load of types 86 00:04:56,520 --> 00:04:59,920 Speaker 1: of juicy stuff that's fallen off of it. But you're 87 00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:02,920 Speaker 1: what I'm thinking, I've had a lot of fun, Whitney, 88 00:05:03,040 --> 00:05:04,960 Speaker 1: It's now time to get down to the nitty gritty 89 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:08,719 Speaker 1: and talk about how to make reparations. That's epic stuff. 90 00:05:08,960 --> 00:05:10,839 Speaker 1: We're dealing with, high stakes, So we need to anchor 91 00:05:10,880 --> 00:05:14,560 Speaker 1: ourselves to an African American voice talking about just living 92 00:05:14,640 --> 00:05:17,479 Speaker 1: their experience. So I choose my mom that see the 93 00:05:17,520 --> 00:05:20,760 Speaker 1: world through Sammy's eyes. She can stand in for the community. 94 00:05:20,800 --> 00:05:24,200 Speaker 1: Like after Schindler's List, one of my favorite movies, Spielberg 95 00:05:24,400 --> 00:05:26,560 Speaker 1: created a committee to take down the stories of the 96 00:05:26,600 --> 00:05:30,680 Speaker 1: survivors of the Holocaust. So she'll tell her story whatever 97 00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:33,000 Speaker 1: she wants and we get to know her and then 98 00:05:33,080 --> 00:05:35,320 Speaker 1: build out from there. And my mom's a rock, she 99 00:05:35,360 --> 00:05:38,000 Speaker 1: can take it. Meanwhile, we'll check in with Dr. William 100 00:05:38,080 --> 00:05:42,200 Speaker 1: Daherty and former presidential candidate and billionaire Tom Steyer and 101 00:05:42,279 --> 00:05:45,599 Speaker 1: Mayor Karen Weaver of Flint, Michigan. Yeah, that's good. We'll 102 00:05:45,600 --> 00:05:48,840 Speaker 1: talk with them and find out how to make reparations. 103 00:05:49,279 --> 00:05:51,200 Speaker 1: What do you say, Whitney, I think it's a good plan. 104 00:05:51,279 --> 00:05:54,479 Speaker 1: We You know, we've spoken to economist William Daherty before 105 00:05:54,480 --> 00:05:56,520 Speaker 1: and he has a lot of interesting things to say 106 00:05:56,520 --> 00:05:59,440 Speaker 1: about reparations. But all three of those people have been 107 00:05:59,440 --> 00:06:01,680 Speaker 1: really at the war front of the thought process around this. 108 00:06:02,360 --> 00:06:04,799 Speaker 1: But the thing I like best about this plan, Erica, 109 00:06:05,000 --> 00:06:08,279 Speaker 1: is I think everybody would benefit from just spending a 110 00:06:08,279 --> 00:06:11,600 Speaker 1: little time seeing the world through your mom Sammy's eyes. 111 00:06:11,960 --> 00:06:15,120 Speaker 1: When you're a little kid and you're walking down the street, 112 00:06:15,720 --> 00:06:18,680 Speaker 1: are on a bus, and somebody comes up to you 113 00:06:19,040 --> 00:06:22,599 Speaker 1: but no reason at all, look you in the face 114 00:06:22,640 --> 00:06:26,640 Speaker 1: of white person and says, you know, that little girl 115 00:06:26,800 --> 00:06:31,240 Speaker 1: would be cute if he wasn't so bad. I mean, 116 00:06:31,320 --> 00:06:35,719 Speaker 1: why why would you address her child in that way? 117 00:06:36,000 --> 00:06:40,720 Speaker 1: It's nothing, It added nothing to me, It wasn't making 118 00:06:40,760 --> 00:06:43,400 Speaker 1: me feel better. Why would you go out of your 119 00:06:43,520 --> 00:06:48,359 Speaker 1: way to insult someone in such that way? Did that 120 00:06:48,440 --> 00:06:53,320 Speaker 1: happen to your mom? Yes, plenty of times. Yeah, it's interesting. 121 00:06:53,920 --> 00:06:57,000 Speaker 1: What can happen to you when you're just living I 122 00:06:57,080 --> 00:07:00,520 Speaker 1: can't even comprehend a story like that. Erica. I think 123 00:07:00,560 --> 00:07:03,600 Speaker 1: about what's in people's hearts and how they live in 124 00:07:03,640 --> 00:07:09,200 Speaker 1: the world, and I'm trying to imagine understand what's happening 125 00:07:09,320 --> 00:07:11,840 Speaker 1: inside someone that they would feel they could say that 126 00:07:11,880 --> 00:07:14,960 Speaker 1: to a young child. You know. I think about a lot, Erica, 127 00:07:14,960 --> 00:07:19,320 Speaker 1: about this idea of what makes people empathetic and what 128 00:07:19,480 --> 00:07:22,320 Speaker 1: makes people hard. And you know, I did a lot 129 00:07:22,320 --> 00:07:25,560 Speaker 1: of interviews for the Whiteness Project, and I really couldn't 130 00:07:25,560 --> 00:07:27,720 Speaker 1: find a correlation. The only correlation I could find that 131 00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:31,920 Speaker 1: it wasn't about money, it wasn't about privation, It wasn't 132 00:07:31,920 --> 00:07:34,240 Speaker 1: not anything that I thought, Oh, someone was raised this, 133 00:07:34,320 --> 00:07:37,239 Speaker 1: they would have this experience. It was really about true 134 00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:40,880 Speaker 1: self reflection and the people could actually reflect on their 135 00:07:40,880 --> 00:07:46,120 Speaker 1: experience in the world were people that could actually be empathetic. So, 136 00:07:46,360 --> 00:07:48,040 Speaker 1: you know, someone who I think about a lot in 137 00:07:48,080 --> 00:07:52,480 Speaker 1: this way, somebody we've talked to, Tom Steyer, who made 138 00:07:52,520 --> 00:07:55,800 Speaker 1: billions of dollars, has pledged to give it all away 139 00:07:56,200 --> 00:07:59,920 Speaker 1: and ultimately sold out of his hedge fund, became a philanthropist, 140 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:03,000 Speaker 1: and even ran for president recently. I wonder if he 141 00:08:03,040 --> 00:08:06,200 Speaker 1: has enough money to remake the minds of that type 142 00:08:06,200 --> 00:08:08,920 Speaker 1: of human that's a lot of money Erica, but we're 143 00:08:08,920 --> 00:08:11,640 Speaker 1: going to have to be you know, making reparations means 144 00:08:11,680 --> 00:08:14,960 Speaker 1: we have to remake our minds. Cat Taylor and I 145 00:08:15,200 --> 00:08:20,200 Speaker 1: started a bank fifteen years ago harshly to redress the 146 00:08:20,280 --> 00:08:24,000 Speaker 1: systemic racism in the financial system and the banking system 147 00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:29,640 Speaker 1: in the United States that specifically addressed economic justice, environmental sustainability, 148 00:08:29,680 --> 00:08:32,240 Speaker 1: and supported businesses owned by women and people of color 149 00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:36,520 Speaker 1: because there was systemic attempt to shut those people out 150 00:08:36,559 --> 00:08:39,760 Speaker 1: of ownership of wealth in this country. And that's what 151 00:08:39,800 --> 00:08:42,599 Speaker 1: redlining was. Don't lend to black people. It's against the 152 00:08:42,679 --> 00:08:44,480 Speaker 1: rules of our bank to lend to blank people. So 153 00:08:44,480 --> 00:08:48,079 Speaker 1: we're gonna draw a red line around African American neighborhoods 154 00:08:48,120 --> 00:08:50,520 Speaker 1: and you can't lend in there, which shut black people 155 00:08:50,720 --> 00:08:53,760 Speaker 1: out of home ownership, which is the basic wealth creation 156 00:08:53,840 --> 00:08:57,720 Speaker 1: historically for American citizens. If you talk to my African 157 00:08:57,720 --> 00:09:00,360 Speaker 1: American friends who are business people, have a much harder 158 00:09:00,360 --> 00:09:04,040 Speaker 1: time getting business loans, which means you're shut out of 159 00:09:04,120 --> 00:09:08,679 Speaker 1: the private sector's wealth creation of being an entrepreneur and 160 00:09:08,720 --> 00:09:11,600 Speaker 1: building a businesship in terms of ownership. And so we 161 00:09:11,640 --> 00:09:15,480 Speaker 1: started a bank from scratch fifteen years ago. It's now 162 00:09:15,600 --> 00:09:19,720 Speaker 1: over a billion dollars in assets, and it's basically we 163 00:09:19,840 --> 00:09:23,360 Speaker 1: measure every loan not just on whether it's profitable, because 164 00:09:23,400 --> 00:09:26,679 Speaker 1: we need to be profitable so we can continue in business, 165 00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:29,520 Speaker 1: but also what is the impact on the community in 166 00:09:29,640 --> 00:09:32,559 Speaker 1: terms of job creations, in terms of who owns the bank, 167 00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:35,800 Speaker 1: in terms of sequestrian carbon And if you can't do that, 168 00:09:35,960 --> 00:09:37,800 Speaker 1: then that's not alone for us. And we want to 169 00:09:37,880 --> 00:09:40,560 Speaker 1: prove that you can do that and be profitable. That 170 00:09:40,720 --> 00:09:43,520 Speaker 1: actions have to be taken not just to be fair 171 00:09:43,559 --> 00:09:48,040 Speaker 1: within the bank, but to redress the long time deep 172 00:09:48,640 --> 00:09:52,480 Speaker 1: racism of the banking system and actually be you know, 173 00:09:52,559 --> 00:09:55,400 Speaker 1: not trying to be fair, but to be specifically pointing 174 00:09:55,400 --> 00:09:59,000 Speaker 1: out the people who have been discriminated against and trying 175 00:09:59,040 --> 00:10:01,000 Speaker 1: to give them the opportunit and these that have been 176 00:10:01,200 --> 00:10:04,120 Speaker 1: systemically taken away from them. So say, there's more of 177 00:10:04,160 --> 00:10:06,720 Speaker 1: these types of institutions that pop up, and there's a 178 00:10:06,720 --> 00:10:09,760 Speaker 1: different way to sort of assess people's credit worthiness and 179 00:10:09,800 --> 00:10:11,559 Speaker 1: they're not judged by that, Like come in and say 180 00:10:11,559 --> 00:10:13,719 Speaker 1: I'm black, Can I get Alan? And they said, yes, 181 00:10:13,720 --> 00:10:18,400 Speaker 1: you qualify. You know, you know, that's what people are 182 00:10:18,480 --> 00:10:21,080 Speaker 1: kind of wanting because they're saying, Look, I spent my 183 00:10:21,160 --> 00:10:24,800 Speaker 1: life being beat up by all these things that are 184 00:10:24,800 --> 00:10:27,040 Speaker 1: coming at me. I have no way to sort of 185 00:10:27,080 --> 00:10:30,000 Speaker 1: convince people that I'm a good bet. Is my black 186 00:10:30,040 --> 00:10:32,960 Speaker 1: skin enough to say, y'all owe me a shot? What's 187 00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:34,960 Speaker 1: the shot looked like? Some people say, look, just write 188 00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:36,960 Speaker 1: me a check. First, write me a check. Do you 189 00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:40,360 Speaker 1: think that's part of it? Obviously in education, mental health, 190 00:10:40,679 --> 00:10:43,880 Speaker 1: those types of things, you say, housing stability, can people 191 00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:46,840 Speaker 1: also just get a check? This is the point of 192 00:10:46,880 --> 00:10:51,480 Speaker 1: the study, Erica, because I recognize every single one of 193 00:10:51,520 --> 00:10:55,120 Speaker 1: the areas that you're looking at, and I know that 194 00:10:55,160 --> 00:10:59,720 Speaker 1: they're all subject to possible solution, so that you know 195 00:10:59,800 --> 00:11:02,120 Speaker 1: you are talking about education. I mean, one of the 196 00:11:02,160 --> 00:11:04,280 Speaker 1: things I pushed for when I was running for president 197 00:11:04,679 --> 00:11:08,120 Speaker 1: was a huge increase in the money devoted to historically 198 00:11:08,120 --> 00:11:11,559 Speaker 1: black colleges and universities because I felt as if here 199 00:11:11,640 --> 00:11:16,480 Speaker 1: is a very specific and successful lifeline to people who've 200 00:11:16,480 --> 00:11:21,439 Speaker 1: been discriminated against, that's being relatively starved for public money, 201 00:11:21,640 --> 00:11:26,719 Speaker 1: and yet has succeeded in producing, you know, way disproportionate 202 00:11:26,800 --> 00:11:30,960 Speaker 1: numbers of successful professional African Americans across the country. And 203 00:11:31,000 --> 00:11:33,360 Speaker 1: I said, it's a system that works. It's a system 204 00:11:33,360 --> 00:11:36,160 Speaker 1: that exists, why don't we make it a lot better 205 00:11:36,200 --> 00:11:39,280 Speaker 1: funded and a lot bigger to give people an equal 206 00:11:39,320 --> 00:11:42,840 Speaker 1: opportunity to see how far they can go. And in general, 207 00:11:42,880 --> 00:11:47,280 Speaker 1: when you talk about a systemic change in society, and 208 00:11:47,320 --> 00:11:51,920 Speaker 1: particularly one that's centered around values and justice, the appropriate 209 00:11:51,960 --> 00:11:55,640 Speaker 1: place for that is the government, the human embodiments of 210 00:11:55,679 --> 00:11:58,360 Speaker 1: the will of the people. This is not something that 211 00:11:58,400 --> 00:12:01,360 Speaker 1: I think should be voluntary. It's not something that I 212 00:12:01,400 --> 00:12:05,800 Speaker 1: think we're hoping people will do because we're hoping, you know, 213 00:12:05,880 --> 00:12:09,800 Speaker 1: that they'll acknowledge this individually. This is something that has 214 00:12:09,840 --> 00:12:12,720 Speaker 1: to be organized through the government. There's no doubt about 215 00:12:12,760 --> 00:12:15,120 Speaker 1: that in my mind. So when I think about how 216 00:12:15,160 --> 00:12:19,640 Speaker 1: this is going to be actually enacted, both studied, decisions made, 217 00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:22,480 Speaker 1: and then carried out, I believe that has to be 218 00:12:22,520 --> 00:12:25,000 Speaker 1: in effect the will of the people. People who have 219 00:12:25,160 --> 00:12:29,400 Speaker 1: gotten that impromatur of saying you have a right to 220 00:12:29,520 --> 00:12:33,640 Speaker 1: do this, you represent the will of your constituents, and 221 00:12:33,679 --> 00:12:35,559 Speaker 1: therefore that's how it's gonna happen. First of all, I 222 00:12:35,600 --> 00:12:37,640 Speaker 1: don't think it will happen otherwise. The second, I don't 223 00:12:37,640 --> 00:12:40,480 Speaker 1: think it's appropriate for it to happen otherwise. I think 224 00:12:40,520 --> 00:12:43,120 Speaker 1: that is what a democracy looks like. That is what 225 00:12:43,240 --> 00:12:45,960 Speaker 1: this democracy is supposed to look like. And if this 226 00:12:46,040 --> 00:12:48,040 Speaker 1: is going to happen, that's the only way I believe 227 00:12:48,040 --> 00:12:53,920 Speaker 1: that it has the authority and the clear intent that 228 00:12:54,080 --> 00:12:57,600 Speaker 1: it speaks for everybody. You know, when there's a chance 229 00:12:57,960 --> 00:13:01,160 Speaker 1: to stand up for what's right, that a chance. The 230 00:13:01,200 --> 00:13:04,600 Speaker 1: whole point is to be trying to push for justice, 231 00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:08,240 Speaker 1: to try and push for the values you believe in. 232 00:13:08,320 --> 00:13:10,880 Speaker 1: That's a great opportunity in life, I think, And that's 233 00:13:10,880 --> 00:13:12,680 Speaker 1: how I see this, just trying to think in the 234 00:13:12,679 --> 00:13:15,480 Speaker 1: context of this conversation anything we didn't touch on that 235 00:13:15,559 --> 00:13:19,480 Speaker 1: you think that white Americans should hear, or know or 236 00:13:19,559 --> 00:13:22,920 Speaker 1: ask themselves in order to understand, you know, this issue. 237 00:13:23,320 --> 00:13:26,080 Speaker 1: You know what I would really ask somebody on a 238 00:13:26,120 --> 00:13:29,920 Speaker 1: personal level, another white American. I would say, look, we 239 00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:33,200 Speaker 1: need to retell the story of America. Have you ever 240 00:13:33,440 --> 00:13:38,480 Speaker 1: put yourself in the context of being somebody from another race? 241 00:13:38,880 --> 00:13:42,080 Speaker 1: And if you think about slavery in America and you 242 00:13:42,120 --> 00:13:46,679 Speaker 1: think about the long time before when white people were 243 00:13:46,760 --> 00:13:49,439 Speaker 1: debating it in Congress and in the White House and 244 00:13:49,880 --> 00:13:54,400 Speaker 1: in elections, it would be a completely different conversation. If 245 00:13:54,440 --> 00:13:58,160 Speaker 1: the people who are having that conversation were themselves enslaved, 246 00:13:58,480 --> 00:14:02,840 Speaker 1: if their children were enslaved, if their families, We're going 247 00:14:02,880 --> 00:14:07,199 Speaker 1: to have something horrible happen that day. That's what I 248 00:14:07,240 --> 00:14:10,560 Speaker 1: would ask quite Americans to do. If that's you, not 249 00:14:10,920 --> 00:14:14,400 Speaker 1: somebody else you see is different from you, but you, 250 00:14:14,840 --> 00:14:18,000 Speaker 1: in the most profound senses an American. Now, can we 251 00:14:18,040 --> 00:14:21,160 Speaker 1: start talking about what we're going to do going forward? Now? 252 00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:26,120 Speaker 1: Can we start talking about this history. That's the emotional 253 00:14:26,200 --> 00:14:29,960 Speaker 1: courage we need as white people to be part of 254 00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:34,360 Speaker 1: the solution here instead of clinging to something that you 255 00:14:34,360 --> 00:14:40,240 Speaker 1: know clearly has been based in injustice and wronged them. 256 00:14:40,400 --> 00:14:42,800 Speaker 1: I gotta ask the os question for all my friends 257 00:14:42,800 --> 00:14:44,840 Speaker 1: and people who would expect me to ask, when you 258 00:14:44,880 --> 00:14:47,320 Speaker 1: get there? When you pull and when you when I say, 259 00:14:47,320 --> 00:14:49,720 Speaker 1: they're like, you've made enough money to live your life 260 00:14:49,760 --> 00:14:52,920 Speaker 1: and finally get there. People think all sorts of magic 261 00:14:52,960 --> 00:14:55,360 Speaker 1: happens to you that you pull back behind the curtain 262 00:14:55,440 --> 00:14:58,880 Speaker 1: and subtenly things happen. Is that what it feels like? 263 00:14:59,360 --> 00:15:02,640 Speaker 1: Do you feel more empower? Here's what I would say, Erica. 264 00:15:02,760 --> 00:15:05,640 Speaker 1: So when I was twenty six years old, I go 265 00:15:05,720 --> 00:15:08,240 Speaker 1: to see my grandmother who's kind of a tough old 266 00:15:08,320 --> 00:15:10,680 Speaker 1: lady to be honest. And when it was over, I 267 00:15:10,720 --> 00:15:12,760 Speaker 1: said to her, you know, do you have any advice 268 00:15:12,800 --> 00:15:15,480 Speaker 1: for me? And I'm thinking she's gonna say, it's all 269 00:15:15,520 --> 00:15:19,080 Speaker 1: about family, it's all about love, and she goes, money 270 00:15:19,120 --> 00:15:21,080 Speaker 1: is more important than you think, Tom, And I'm thinking, 271 00:15:21,120 --> 00:15:24,040 Speaker 1: oh my gosh, really that's what you've got for me, 272 00:15:24,240 --> 00:15:27,320 Speaker 1: money's And she said, there's not a lot of difference 273 00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:31,600 Speaker 1: between being comfortably off and being rich, but there's a 274 00:15:31,640 --> 00:15:35,400 Speaker 1: gigantic difference, Tom, between being poor and being comfortably off. 275 00:15:35,800 --> 00:15:38,280 Speaker 1: And she said, I've been all three. I know what 276 00:15:38,400 --> 00:15:40,640 Speaker 1: it is to be poor. I know what it is 277 00:15:41,280 --> 00:15:43,960 Speaker 1: to have to figure out how to cobble together bus 278 00:15:43,960 --> 00:15:46,880 Speaker 1: fair to get across town. So and answer your question, Erk, 279 00:15:46,960 --> 00:15:50,160 Speaker 1: I think there is a huge difference between being comfortably 280 00:15:50,160 --> 00:15:53,040 Speaker 1: off and feeling safe about health care and rent and 281 00:15:53,560 --> 00:15:57,080 Speaker 1: food and education, you know, the basics for a family, 282 00:15:57,320 --> 00:15:59,360 Speaker 1: and having to worry about every single one of those 283 00:15:59,400 --> 00:16:02,000 Speaker 1: on a day, constant grind about how are you going 284 00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:03,680 Speaker 1: to deal with us? But I don't think there's a 285 00:16:03,680 --> 00:16:06,840 Speaker 1: lot of difference between being comfortably off and being rich. 286 00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:09,480 Speaker 1: I really don't you know, Erica We talk a lot 287 00:16:09,520 --> 00:16:12,360 Speaker 1: about white allies on what they can do, and I 288 00:16:12,440 --> 00:16:15,680 Speaker 1: think one of the most interesting things that Tom touches 289 00:16:15,760 --> 00:16:20,840 Speaker 1: on is actually thinking about what it would mean if 290 00:16:21,560 --> 00:16:23,720 Speaker 1: we could see the world through black eyes, or we 291 00:16:23,720 --> 00:16:26,800 Speaker 1: could actually experience that that the policies that we have 292 00:16:27,200 --> 00:16:30,640 Speaker 1: would fundamentally be changed if the paradigm was different, and 293 00:16:30,640 --> 00:16:33,120 Speaker 1: if white people could truly see what was like to 294 00:16:33,120 --> 00:16:35,960 Speaker 1: live in the world as Black Americans. The policies that 295 00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:38,440 Speaker 1: we have just they simply wouldn't exist. No, they wouldn't. 296 00:16:38,480 --> 00:16:41,000 Speaker 1: They wouldn't, but it wouldn't be interesting is if they 297 00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:43,160 Speaker 1: could see what it's like to live in the world 298 00:16:43,560 --> 00:16:46,400 Speaker 1: in their white existence. I guess because I keep thinking 299 00:16:46,600 --> 00:16:51,040 Speaker 1: it can't be that pleasurable if the community is fixated 300 00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:57,400 Speaker 1: on oppression of people with darker skin and larger noses 301 00:16:57,400 --> 00:17:01,360 Speaker 1: and bigger lips and wooly hair. Um, imagine if somebody 302 00:17:01,360 --> 00:17:03,800 Speaker 1: could step out of themselves and say, are we really 303 00:17:03,880 --> 00:17:06,040 Speaker 1: just focusing on that? Am I going to spend my 304 00:17:06,119 --> 00:17:09,359 Speaker 1: day in my time pushing against that? That's that's nuts. 305 00:17:09,600 --> 00:17:11,320 Speaker 1: But you know, I like Tom Styre a lot, and 306 00:17:11,359 --> 00:17:13,600 Speaker 1: I really appreciate him because I think he's proved positive 307 00:17:13,640 --> 00:17:16,359 Speaker 1: that biology is not always destiny. I know Freud wrote 308 00:17:16,359 --> 00:17:19,800 Speaker 1: that about women, but he's going against Once you get 309 00:17:19,840 --> 00:17:21,879 Speaker 1: to have a certain amount of money, you're supposed to 310 00:17:21,880 --> 00:17:24,760 Speaker 1: be a certain way, you know, gain more money and 311 00:17:24,880 --> 00:17:27,159 Speaker 1: build buildings and put my name on it. But no, 312 00:17:27,760 --> 00:17:30,440 Speaker 1: he's not doing that. And part of the reason why 313 00:17:30,440 --> 00:17:32,720 Speaker 1: people come here is because they believe in the American dream. 314 00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:35,920 Speaker 1: You're supposed to be able to achieve your dreams, and 315 00:17:35,960 --> 00:17:38,280 Speaker 1: they're supposed to be a level playing field. But we 316 00:17:38,320 --> 00:17:41,479 Speaker 1: all know the dream machine is rigged, and it certainly 317 00:17:41,520 --> 00:17:45,480 Speaker 1: has a bias for vanilla covered and testosterone, so you 318 00:17:45,560 --> 00:17:50,479 Speaker 1: know it's tough, but he's making it more chocolatey. Bless him. 319 00:17:50,520 --> 00:17:53,240 Speaker 1: Speaking of rigged system, my mother told me a story 320 00:17:53,320 --> 00:17:56,320 Speaker 1: about when I was a child in fourth grade, how 321 00:17:56,359 --> 00:17:59,000 Speaker 1: she had to go to my school to confront a 322 00:17:59,040 --> 00:18:04,159 Speaker 1: teacher who had changed my grades to a lower grade 323 00:18:04,520 --> 00:18:07,480 Speaker 1: because he wanted to advance a white child instead of me, 324 00:18:07,760 --> 00:18:10,480 Speaker 1: and she confronted him, I have to start the year 325 00:18:10,560 --> 00:18:13,480 Speaker 1: before you has had a teacher I think of his 326 00:18:13,640 --> 00:18:17,320 Speaker 1: third grade. She and I had gone to the same church. 327 00:18:17,400 --> 00:18:20,800 Speaker 1: She was white and we had going to the same church, 328 00:18:20,880 --> 00:18:23,960 Speaker 1: and she was just in awe of you all the time. 329 00:18:24,040 --> 00:18:27,560 Speaker 1: She was telling me, Erica did this in school or whatever. 330 00:18:27,600 --> 00:18:30,040 Speaker 1: And I would go to your teacher's meeting. I had 331 00:18:30,080 --> 00:18:34,240 Speaker 1: seen all of your reports, your grades and all, and 332 00:18:34,520 --> 00:18:40,680 Speaker 1: you were in her gifted group. And the next year 333 00:18:41,640 --> 00:18:46,159 Speaker 1: she moved away. You moved to the next grade. And 334 00:18:46,640 --> 00:18:52,359 Speaker 1: this teacher was actually Hispanic, but at that time, most 335 00:18:52,440 --> 00:18:56,160 Speaker 1: of the time when people wrote what race you are, 336 00:18:56,359 --> 00:18:59,639 Speaker 1: if they were Hispanic, they usually wrote his wife. His 337 00:18:59,800 --> 00:19:04,400 Speaker 1: name is Mr Vega. Yes, But anyway, you were in Mr. 338 00:19:04,480 --> 00:19:09,120 Speaker 1: Baker's room. And when it came time for a teacher 339 00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:14,639 Speaker 1: parent conference, I went and here were all of the 340 00:19:14,680 --> 00:19:18,920 Speaker 1: grades that I had seen with your former teacher, which 341 00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:23,280 Speaker 1: had had been written in ink. He had recorded your 342 00:19:23,320 --> 00:19:27,119 Speaker 1: grade like you had made, say nine seven on a 343 00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:31,280 Speaker 1: particular test, the math part of whatever party in the 344 00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:36,320 Speaker 1: area of the focus of the test was written and 345 00:19:36,400 --> 00:19:41,399 Speaker 1: the grade beside it well on his recording. This is 346 00:19:41,440 --> 00:19:45,320 Speaker 1: a record that's gonna follow you through elementary school. So 347 00:19:45,520 --> 00:19:50,160 Speaker 1: each year is recorded on the same tests for those 348 00:19:50,240 --> 00:19:55,080 Speaker 1: same areas, and your last year grade now have been 349 00:19:55,119 --> 00:20:00,960 Speaker 1: marked out with just a line across the grade, and 350 00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:06,280 Speaker 1: then there's something pencil then that's last and he's telling 351 00:20:06,359 --> 00:20:10,040 Speaker 1: me that he is going to send you to the 352 00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:15,159 Speaker 1: group mentally agecable and I said, what, why, what are 353 00:20:15,200 --> 00:20:20,280 Speaker 1: you doing? I also knew the teacher there because I 354 00:20:20,520 --> 00:20:23,119 Speaker 1: did work back and forth in the school and was 355 00:20:23,320 --> 00:20:28,440 Speaker 1: very well known in that school. And uh, also never 356 00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:31,960 Speaker 1: missed a parent conference, so I had known the teacher 357 00:20:32,840 --> 00:20:36,359 Speaker 1: who taught that group. And I said, well, why would 358 00:20:36,359 --> 00:20:38,960 Speaker 1: you be sending Erica there? And he said, well, look 359 00:20:38,960 --> 00:20:40,960 Speaker 1: at her test goods and I said, those are not 360 00:20:41,240 --> 00:20:45,200 Speaker 1: Erica's tech courts. And by the way, you do know 361 00:20:45,400 --> 00:20:49,360 Speaker 1: that her teacher last year and I had a very 362 00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:54,560 Speaker 1: close relationship. So anyway, we established all of that, and 363 00:20:54,600 --> 00:20:57,680 Speaker 1: I asked him, why are these grades change here? I 364 00:20:57,720 --> 00:21:01,600 Speaker 1: saw this original grade. I've never missed the parent teacher meeting, 365 00:21:02,280 --> 00:21:06,800 Speaker 1: and I know that Erica was in the gifted class. 366 00:21:06,840 --> 00:21:10,520 Speaker 1: So how now she hasn't had a brain injury or 367 00:21:10,680 --> 00:21:14,080 Speaker 1: nothing has happened that has changed her situation. Why are 368 00:21:14,119 --> 00:21:16,800 Speaker 1: you trying to convince me that she needs to go 369 00:21:16,920 --> 00:21:22,440 Speaker 1: to the mentally ethecable group. That's not my child. And uh, 370 00:21:22,480 --> 00:21:26,560 Speaker 1: of course he and I got into some pretty heated 371 00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:30,560 Speaker 1: thing here, and I ended up telling him that I 372 00:21:30,560 --> 00:21:33,359 Speaker 1: would give him a month to straighten that out, and 373 00:21:33,359 --> 00:21:37,040 Speaker 1: not said, then I'm going to the board of education, 374 00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:40,680 Speaker 1: and I want to understand, I said, by way, you 375 00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:45,880 Speaker 1: do know that I have teacher training, and I know 376 00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:51,040 Speaker 1: what the games are. I know how teachers can manipulate 377 00:21:51,400 --> 00:21:57,200 Speaker 1: children's situations by changing grades so that they can advance 378 00:21:57,359 --> 00:22:02,120 Speaker 1: one child over another child old and a child who 379 00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:07,560 Speaker 1: was showing last year gifted. You're gonna tell me, with 380 00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:13,720 Speaker 1: no outside or external interventions or anything, that this child 381 00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:18,600 Speaker 1: now is going to be somebody that needs special help, 382 00:22:18,880 --> 00:22:22,800 Speaker 1: special ad And you can't explain to me why you 383 00:22:22,800 --> 00:22:25,200 Speaker 1: remember that you had me come in. I was outside 384 00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:28,680 Speaker 1: and he made him apologize to me. You and Dad, well, 385 00:22:29,119 --> 00:22:32,280 Speaker 1: you know he needed to apologize to you. And he's 386 00:22:32,359 --> 00:22:35,280 Speaker 1: telling me all the things about, oh, how he liked 387 00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:40,240 Speaker 1: you and you were a likable kid, and he didn't 388 00:22:40,280 --> 00:22:43,240 Speaker 1: know why. You know, you should be very happy because 389 00:22:43,359 --> 00:22:45,879 Speaker 1: everybody like you. But I said, well, maybe she doesn't 390 00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:49,600 Speaker 1: like you, and I don't like you, and it's not 391 00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:55,399 Speaker 1: about who's liking what. You are trying to hinder my 392 00:22:55,560 --> 00:22:59,600 Speaker 1: child and you're gonna affect her education for the rest 393 00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:03,200 Speaker 1: of her life. Oh that was a close call. Did 394 00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:06,720 Speaker 1: you hear that, Whitney. My life was nearly derailed because 395 00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:10,679 Speaker 1: my teacher, my favorite teacher, decided I was disposable. I 396 00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:13,360 Speaker 1: was the only black student in his class, we were 397 00:23:13,359 --> 00:23:16,199 Speaker 1: the only black family in the school, and if my 398 00:23:16,320 --> 00:23:19,760 Speaker 1: mother hadn't caught it, it would have changed everything for me. 399 00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:23,320 Speaker 1: I think about what all the women Robert Ruth Simmons 400 00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:26,800 Speaker 1: is doing in Evanston, Illinois, and they're making reparations right now, 401 00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:30,280 Speaker 1: But I know that question and a lot of that 402 00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:32,960 Speaker 1: energy needs to be put into what are they doing 403 00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:36,800 Speaker 1: around education inside of that type of subject. Well, I 404 00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:39,240 Speaker 1: know what is more distressing about that story for me 405 00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:42,440 Speaker 1: Erica the idea that this teacher would change your graves 406 00:23:42,480 --> 00:23:44,760 Speaker 1: to advance in other students or the fact that he 407 00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:48,880 Speaker 1: was your favorite teacher. That's really heartbreaking. When we talked 408 00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:52,879 Speaker 1: about what exactly reparations are, it is about reimagining and 409 00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:55,719 Speaker 1: rebuilding systems. And yeah, and Evans Illinois, not only are 410 00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:59,840 Speaker 1: they paying reparations to some of their black residents, they're 411 00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:03,200 Speaker 1: also trying to reimagine the school system. And I think, 412 00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:06,119 Speaker 1: like a lot of places around the country, they're looking 413 00:24:06,119 --> 00:24:08,720 Speaker 1: at tracking and testing and I think they're they're completely 414 00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:12,399 Speaker 1: eliminating tracking and a p classes because they see so 415 00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:15,119 Speaker 1: many of the times that it leaves black students behind 416 00:24:15,359 --> 00:24:18,800 Speaker 1: while at the same time advancing white students. So I 417 00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:21,520 Speaker 1: think when you talk about how do you make reparations, 418 00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:24,480 Speaker 1: you have to have an imagination that sort of probes 419 00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:28,160 Speaker 1: into every part of our society. And someone who's thought 420 00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:32,199 Speaker 1: a lot about this, actually, how do you functionally create reparations? 421 00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:33,800 Speaker 1: What are the things that go into do it? Is 422 00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:37,120 Speaker 1: economist William Darety. I think about the ways in which 423 00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:42,040 Speaker 1: reparations might impact the American community at large, which obviously 424 00:24:42,119 --> 00:24:46,800 Speaker 1: includes Americans who are black and white Americans who are 425 00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:51,120 Speaker 1: of other ethnic and racial backgrounds. And I think if 426 00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:56,720 Speaker 1: America is going to actually fulfill its ambition as being 427 00:24:56,920 --> 00:25:03,280 Speaker 1: a truly democratic society that is open to providing every 428 00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:07,520 Speaker 1: one of its citizens with the capacity to fully participate 429 00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:11,080 Speaker 1: in national life and social life and to make their 430 00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:16,440 Speaker 1: deepest contributions to the entire American community, that that's going 431 00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:21,480 Speaker 1: to require a dramatic and bowl step like a reparations 432 00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:25,440 Speaker 1: project for black American descendants of US slavery. Otherwise the 433 00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:29,399 Speaker 1: nation as a whole will continue to lose a well 434 00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:34,320 Speaker 1: spring of talent that remains untapped and in many cases repressed. 435 00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:37,399 Speaker 1: You know, from the standpoint of the reparations plan that 436 00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:40,720 Speaker 1: we describe and from here to equality, we're not thinking 437 00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:44,840 Speaker 1: that any individual white person owes a debt to the 438 00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:49,480 Speaker 1: black community. We are thinking that the United States government 439 00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:53,199 Speaker 1: is the culpable party. It's the culpable party because it 440 00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:57,800 Speaker 1: is the United States government that established the laws and 441 00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:03,000 Speaker 1: the authority framework that permitted all of these atrocities to 442 00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:06,960 Speaker 1: take place, and in many instances, sanctioned the atrocities. And 443 00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:11,359 Speaker 1: it's the federal government that permitted slavery to be something 444 00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:14,560 Speaker 1: that was treated as a legal practice in the United States. 445 00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:19,600 Speaker 1: It's the federal government that's responsible for the legal framework 446 00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:23,280 Speaker 1: that produced nearly a century of legal segregation in the 447 00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:29,800 Speaker 1: United States. So what I would hope would be the 448 00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:34,000 Speaker 1: responsibility that would be borne by white Americans is to 449 00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:38,399 Speaker 1: take a political position that is in favor of a 450 00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:43,000 Speaker 1: reparations plan. But the financing and the execution of the 451 00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:46,760 Speaker 1: reparations plan has to be something that's conducted by the 452 00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:52,080 Speaker 1: federal government because it's the federal government that bears the responsibility. Ultimately, 453 00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:56,000 Speaker 1: how could the government pay this I'm an advocate of 454 00:26:56,000 --> 00:27:01,439 Speaker 1: a number of social programs that are somewhat dramatic, including 455 00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:05,719 Speaker 1: proposal like baby bonds, which is to provide an endowment 456 00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:09,560 Speaker 1: for each newborn infant, every newborn infant in the United 457 00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:13,359 Speaker 1: States that is calibrated on the basis of their family's wealth. 458 00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:20,680 Speaker 1: But programs that are universal or should reach all Americans 459 00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:25,600 Speaker 1: will not accomplish the goal of eliminating the racial wealth differential. 460 00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:29,760 Speaker 1: And that's the task of a reparations project that should 461 00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:34,639 Speaker 1: be done by making direct payments to all of the 462 00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:40,160 Speaker 1: eligible recipients, in the same way in which reparations plans 463 00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:44,360 Speaker 1: in the past have made direct payments to eligible recipients. 464 00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:48,200 Speaker 1: A couple of major examples that come to mind are 465 00:27:48,359 --> 00:27:52,800 Speaker 1: the German governments payments that were made to the victims 466 00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:59,080 Speaker 1: of the Holocaust. Another example closer to home is the 467 00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:04,880 Speaker 1: Civil Liberties Act that provided payments to the Japanese Americans 468 00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:08,920 Speaker 1: who were unjustly incarcerated during the course of World War Two. 469 00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:13,280 Speaker 1: They were subjected to a form of mass incarceration. There 470 00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:17,160 Speaker 1: are other instances where reparations have been given and not 471 00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:23,400 Speaker 1: necessarily when the donor is responsible for the harm. So 472 00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:27,560 Speaker 1: in the US context, the United States government made payments 473 00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:30,560 Speaker 1: to the families that lost loved ones during the course 474 00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:34,320 Speaker 1: of the nine one one terrorist attacks, and those were 475 00:28:34,359 --> 00:28:39,200 Speaker 1: again direct payments, So I think there should be nothing 476 00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:42,600 Speaker 1: different about the way in which it's done for Black Americans. 477 00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:46,680 Speaker 1: If the issue is how is it financed, then I 478 00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:49,200 Speaker 1: would argue that it will be financed, or it should 479 00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:52,880 Speaker 1: be financed in much the same way that overnight the 480 00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:55,880 Speaker 1: federal government came up with huge sums of money to 481 00:28:55,960 --> 00:29:00,800 Speaker 1: try to address the coronavirus crisis, But there has been 482 00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:04,320 Speaker 1: no increase in taxes, so the federal government can fund 483 00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:08,120 Speaker 1: virtually anything it wants. I think we've been consistent in 484 00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:12,800 Speaker 1: saying that the only significant barrier to additional federal spending 485 00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:16,920 Speaker 1: is the possibility of triggering inflation. So you would have 486 00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:20,520 Speaker 1: to design any new expenditure program in such a way 487 00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:24,080 Speaker 1: that you're conscious of that, and that you structure it 488 00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:28,200 Speaker 1: so that it minimizes the possibility of triggering high rates 489 00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:33,880 Speaker 1: of inflation of prices in the US econy. You know, Erica, 490 00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:39,040 Speaker 1: I find Derity really fascinating because of his specificity. He 491 00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:41,960 Speaker 1: has such clear ideas. Whether you agree with him or not, 492 00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:45,680 Speaker 1: he has really clear ideas about who should get preparations 493 00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:48,160 Speaker 1: and how they should be structured, what they should be. 494 00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:50,120 Speaker 1: And you know, a lot of times this makes think 495 00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:52,320 Speaker 1: I've said this to you before, but it makes me relieved. 496 00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:54,840 Speaker 1: I'm white, Like I have the simple job that's advocating 497 00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:59,239 Speaker 1: for preparations. The actually how you do it? What are 498 00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:02,200 Speaker 1: the mechanics for it? You know, I'm lucky that I 499 00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:04,239 Speaker 1: believe that white people shouldn't have a say in that. 500 00:30:04,360 --> 00:30:08,960 Speaker 1: So that's on you. You're gonna have to figure that out. Well, 501 00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:12,440 Speaker 1: you guys got a big job, because you know, we 502 00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:14,320 Speaker 1: need more white people to help make this happen. But 503 00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:16,200 Speaker 1: you know, Whitney, as I was talking to my mother, 504 00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:19,720 Speaker 1: I realized that I'm not experiencing her fresh out of 505 00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:23,360 Speaker 1: the oven. You know, she's a little hardened. She's gone 506 00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:27,000 Speaker 1: through a lot, and her answers reflect that once again. 507 00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:29,560 Speaker 1: I you know, not only can I do I often 508 00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:33,320 Speaker 1: say like, I can't possibly pretend that I could imagine 509 00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:35,920 Speaker 1: what it's like to live in the United States as 510 00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:40,080 Speaker 1: a black American. I can't possibly, I really can't possibly 511 00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:42,720 Speaker 1: imagine what it was like to live as a black 512 00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:46,200 Speaker 1: American eighty years ago. Oh No, And she is eighty 513 00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:49,600 Speaker 1: years old, and so she's absorbed a lot of disappointments 514 00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:52,640 Speaker 1: and challenges in her life, more than most people I know. 515 00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:57,800 Speaker 1: Miss Sammy is battle tested, you know, her remedy, her 516 00:30:57,840 --> 00:31:01,360 Speaker 1: default setting is Lord, give me the straight I mean, 517 00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:04,320 Speaker 1: we talked about that, but I see why they needed 518 00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:07,440 Speaker 1: the strength. And it takes a while to get through 519 00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:10,800 Speaker 1: that buffalo stance. You know. She's real sweetie, but she's 520 00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:14,160 Speaker 1: very tough, and when it comes to herself, she doesn't 521 00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:17,960 Speaker 1: know the difference between ouch and pain. She just keeps moving. 522 00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:23,920 Speaker 1: She experiences disadvantages and challenges so often it becomes de rigour, 523 00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:27,520 Speaker 1: you know, playing for the worst full stop. And it's 524 00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:31,320 Speaker 1: like she knows if you walk with a pebble in 525 00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:34,640 Speaker 1: your shoe long enough, it'll burrow into your heel, settle in, 526 00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:37,320 Speaker 1: and become part of your soul. She has no memory 527 00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:41,480 Speaker 1: of when that pain fused with her normal senses. She 528 00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:44,280 Speaker 1: just accepts the pain in her heel as payment due 529 00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:48,760 Speaker 1: for walking. And that's black people. So many black people 530 00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:52,120 Speaker 1: every day because of their race, that's what they go through. 531 00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:56,880 Speaker 1: And it's deceptive because it's disguised as plain o ordinary 532 00:31:56,920 --> 00:32:01,200 Speaker 1: American life and repackaged as the American dream, like you're here, 533 00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:03,920 Speaker 1: you're part of the American dream, and it's supposed to 534 00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:08,320 Speaker 1: feel that way, but it's painful. One example Erica is 535 00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:11,080 Speaker 1: the people in Flint, Michigan. You know, their American dream 536 00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:14,760 Speaker 1: turned to an American nightmare when the politicians in Flint, 537 00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:17,640 Speaker 1: during a budget crisis, decided to get the water supply 538 00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:20,640 Speaker 1: that was coming from Michigan. They shifted over to the 539 00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:24,600 Speaker 1: Flint River and that literally poisoned the majority black community 540 00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:27,920 Speaker 1: in Flint. Mayor Karen Weaver was leadership during that period 541 00:32:28,040 --> 00:32:30,400 Speaker 1: and it became her job to make sure that both 542 00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:33,120 Speaker 1: the state of Michigan and the federal government made things right. 543 00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:36,840 Speaker 1: I remember saying, if there's not a check for Flint, 544 00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:40,000 Speaker 1: I won't be there because I'm trying to get what 545 00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:44,280 Speaker 1: you know, and everybody else knows we deserve. And it 546 00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:47,160 Speaker 1: was so amazing to me because this was something that 547 00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:50,360 Speaker 1: wasn't just documented in Flint or the state of Michigan. 548 00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:54,160 Speaker 1: This was documented across the country and the world what 549 00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:56,960 Speaker 1: had gone on. And so I've got to try and 550 00:32:57,120 --> 00:32:59,800 Speaker 1: you know, continue to speak up and speak out for Flint. 551 00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:02,840 Speaker 1: Right now, you have to say you were either going 552 00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:06,680 Speaker 1: to accept the settlement as is, you're satisfied with it 553 00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:09,360 Speaker 1: the way it is, or you could say I want 554 00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:12,720 Speaker 1: to be part of the settlement, but I'm objecting, or 555 00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:16,280 Speaker 1: I want no parts of anything. So I opted in. 556 00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:18,360 Speaker 1: I said, I want to be part of this settlement, 557 00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:21,080 Speaker 1: but I want to object. And that's one of the 558 00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:24,720 Speaker 1: objections is the attorneys getting more than the victims. The 559 00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:27,040 Speaker 1: most that a victim will get as if they lost 560 00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:29,840 Speaker 1: a loved one to legionneers, if they were forty nine 561 00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:34,440 Speaker 1: and younger, they'll get one point five million. Fifty and older, 562 00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:38,320 Speaker 1: the amount you get goes down to three hundred thousand dollars. 563 00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:41,440 Speaker 1: So they've put a value on people's lives. And they 564 00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:44,280 Speaker 1: put a cap on property damage of a thousand dollars, 565 00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:48,000 Speaker 1: which is absurd. Which is absurd. I mean people's water 566 00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:53,800 Speaker 1: heaters were damaged, uh, dishwashers, refrigerators, a thousand dollar cap. 567 00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:57,080 Speaker 1: What can you do with that? Not much? It is 568 00:33:57,120 --> 00:34:01,800 Speaker 1: absolutely absurd. That's another objection. One of the other objections 569 00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:05,360 Speaker 1: is the documentation. There is so much documentation you have 570 00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:09,560 Speaker 1: to have. You know, the more documentation you have, I guess, 571 00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:12,560 Speaker 1: the more money you get. However, a lot of the 572 00:34:13,040 --> 00:34:15,920 Speaker 1: testing that needed to be done wasn't even available, not 573 00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:18,839 Speaker 1: only in Flint, but the state of Michigan. They've just 574 00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:22,960 Speaker 1: started getting the access to the testing available to us 575 00:34:23,200 --> 00:34:26,839 Speaker 1: within the last month. So people have to opt in 576 00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:30,120 Speaker 1: and object. So there is a fairness hearing that is 577 00:34:30,160 --> 00:34:33,640 Speaker 1: in July, and we go before the judge who will 578 00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:36,840 Speaker 1: hear the objections. The judge has says she will listen 579 00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:39,200 Speaker 1: to you know, however long it takes to hear the 580 00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:42,840 Speaker 1: objections of the people. So we had to have everything 581 00:34:42,880 --> 00:34:46,440 Speaker 1: in by last Monday, and now we wait. You know, 582 00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:49,320 Speaker 1: one of the things we've always said is what happened, 583 00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:51,760 Speaker 1: and Flint happened as a result of race and class. 584 00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:54,719 Speaker 1: And I've always told people Flint wasn't about water, and 585 00:34:54,760 --> 00:34:59,080 Speaker 1: it wasn't about infrastructure. Those were the symptoms of this 586 00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:03,560 Speaker 1: underlying racism, the systemic racism, and this and this payment 587 00:35:03,680 --> 00:35:06,560 Speaker 1: is reflective of that. You know, we said, this is 588 00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:09,359 Speaker 1: another slap in the face to the residents and and 589 00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:12,040 Speaker 1: this payment is reflective when you know, when you look 590 00:35:12,040 --> 00:35:14,080 Speaker 1: at the payments I just brought up, you know, and 591 00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:16,560 Speaker 1: you and you say the the amount for the amount, 592 00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:18,520 Speaker 1: the number of people, and then you say, now, how 593 00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:21,359 Speaker 1: Flint get this, and why did they keep saying this 594 00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:23,680 Speaker 1: is such a great deal when we know it's not. 595 00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:26,920 Speaker 1: But I'll tell you if we were a different persuasion, 596 00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:31,000 Speaker 1: a different complexion, or a different socioeconomic status, this would 597 00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:34,240 Speaker 1: not have happened. I think some people have gotten worn down. 598 00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:36,840 Speaker 1: You know, they're just tired. I've heard some people say 599 00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:39,680 Speaker 1: anything is better than nothing, and that's a sad place 600 00:35:39,719 --> 00:35:42,919 Speaker 1: to be. What do you think is needed to heal? 601 00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:45,640 Speaker 1: And by the way, you are a psychologist, so I'm 602 00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:49,440 Speaker 1: very interested on the psychological damage and the repair of that, 603 00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:51,920 Speaker 1: and what do you think needs to happen. The money 604 00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:54,400 Speaker 1: needs to come, and it needs to be more money. 605 00:35:54,719 --> 00:35:58,160 Speaker 1: We want more than charges. We want convictions. We want 606 00:35:58,160 --> 00:36:01,480 Speaker 1: healthcare for the residents here and we wanted to follow 607 00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:05,040 Speaker 1: them no matter where they go. We want access to 608 00:36:05,080 --> 00:36:09,279 Speaker 1: college and trade school for the people. We need to 609 00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:13,040 Speaker 1: look at a small business and entrepreneurship and putting some 610 00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:17,239 Speaker 1: equity there. So we need different kinds of programs and 611 00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:21,120 Speaker 1: services and resources put in place. If you want to 612 00:36:21,160 --> 00:36:25,920 Speaker 1: try and make Flint whole, but starting with a deserving 613 00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:29,399 Speaker 1: a fair, just amount of money, plus all of those 614 00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:33,880 Speaker 1: other things that we should have access an opportunity for McAra. 615 00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:37,080 Speaker 1: What have you learned about human nature from this experience? 616 00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:40,239 Speaker 1: Sometimes you just really expect people to do the right 617 00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:43,360 Speaker 1: thing and you can't. One of the things I always 618 00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:47,400 Speaker 1: talk about is never underestimating the power of your voice 619 00:36:47,719 --> 00:36:50,239 Speaker 1: and don't let anybody take it. You know. I was 620 00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:53,799 Speaker 1: listening to you and Whitney. I think one of the 621 00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:57,839 Speaker 1: questions you all have imposed was you're talking about reparations, 622 00:36:57,880 --> 00:37:00,560 Speaker 1: do you think it will happen? You weren't sure when 623 00:37:00,560 --> 00:37:02,480 Speaker 1: it would happen, if it would happen, or when it 624 00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:05,000 Speaker 1: would happen. But one of the things is you don't 625 00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:08,080 Speaker 1: stop talking about it. You don't stop demanding what is right. 626 00:37:08,160 --> 00:37:10,719 Speaker 1: You don't stop speaking up for what is right and 627 00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:13,279 Speaker 1: putting that information out there, because as soon as you 628 00:37:13,360 --> 00:37:16,239 Speaker 1: do that, you have been defeated. And there are so 629 00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:19,040 Speaker 1: many ways to be worn down as a human and 630 00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:22,320 Speaker 1: as a black person. And I've just really learned how 631 00:37:22,360 --> 00:37:25,480 Speaker 1: strong we are here. I think people have thought we'd 632 00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:28,560 Speaker 1: go away, People thought we wouldn't still be speaking up 633 00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:31,120 Speaker 1: and still fighting. But one thing I've always said is 634 00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:33,319 Speaker 1: I'd rather show up for the fight and lose than 635 00:37:33,400 --> 00:37:36,480 Speaker 1: to not show up. And that's what we're doing, because 636 00:37:36,520 --> 00:37:39,440 Speaker 1: I think we do recognize that this isn't just about us. 637 00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:42,160 Speaker 1: I mean were impact that we know what we deserve. 638 00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:45,319 Speaker 1: We're fighting for other black and brown communities and we 639 00:37:45,400 --> 00:37:47,920 Speaker 1: have said use us for that, because we know this 640 00:37:47,960 --> 00:37:51,440 Speaker 1: should never happen any place else. And it it's just 641 00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:56,120 Speaker 1: showed me what strength and resilience and courage and determination 642 00:37:56,440 --> 00:37:59,920 Speaker 1: will do. But it also lets you see how easily 643 00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:02,160 Speaker 1: worn down we can get as well. And that's what 644 00:38:02,200 --> 00:38:05,200 Speaker 1: people want to see. That's what people want to have hapen. 645 00:38:05,280 --> 00:38:07,279 Speaker 1: We want you to be quiet, we want you to 646 00:38:07,320 --> 00:38:10,400 Speaker 1: be tired, we want you to go away. I can't 647 00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:13,719 Speaker 1: do it, but wherever you are, you can make a 648 00:38:13,760 --> 00:38:16,279 Speaker 1: difference and your voice can be heard. And that's what 649 00:38:16,360 --> 00:38:21,160 Speaker 1: we have to show people. She's phenomenal. I just love her. 650 00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:25,320 Speaker 1: Karen Weaver. She was mayor then and from where she 651 00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:28,560 Speaker 1: is now, she's still working hard to repair her city. 652 00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:31,400 Speaker 1: But again we're talking about the loss of trust and 653 00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:35,360 Speaker 1: the betrayal of a system that said you are disposable 654 00:38:35,400 --> 00:38:38,080 Speaker 1: and not even worthy of clean water. You know, I 655 00:38:38,200 --> 00:38:41,040 Speaker 1: set in the room Whitney with women from Flint who 656 00:38:41,160 --> 00:38:44,160 Speaker 1: lost their family members to disease from that crisis. What 657 00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:48,440 Speaker 1: do you say to them? Making repairs and reparation and 658 00:38:48,520 --> 00:38:52,759 Speaker 1: restitution won't heal their heart, won't bring their loved one back, 659 00:38:52,960 --> 00:38:56,480 Speaker 1: won't heal black people's hearts. There's not enough money in 660 00:38:56,520 --> 00:39:00,239 Speaker 1: the world to do that. It's like the Great Al 661 00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:04,360 Speaker 1: Green saying, courtesy of burying Robin Gibb, how can you 662 00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:07,200 Speaker 1: mend a broken heart? How can you stop the rain 663 00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:10,520 Speaker 1: from falling down? What makes the world go around? They 664 00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:13,319 Speaker 1: knew they gave it to a brother to sing that 665 00:39:13,360 --> 00:39:17,080 Speaker 1: song because they weren't just talking about love lost. They 666 00:39:17,080 --> 00:39:20,760 Speaker 1: were talking about something deeper than that. Don't you wonder sometimes, Erica, 667 00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:24,839 Speaker 1: that the idea of outcome is focused on too much 668 00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:27,440 Speaker 1: as opposed to just the act of like the act 669 00:39:27,520 --> 00:39:30,160 Speaker 1: of trying to make reparations. I think you're right. I 670 00:39:30,239 --> 00:39:34,239 Speaker 1: don't know what actually would heal Black Americans, and I 671 00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:37,560 Speaker 1: don't know what would actually heal white Americans either. I 672 00:39:37,560 --> 00:39:40,120 Speaker 1: think it's a really complicated place that we're in. But 673 00:39:40,200 --> 00:39:42,880 Speaker 1: I think in some ways it's a leap of faith, 674 00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:45,600 Speaker 1: It's a leaf of imagination that you have to take 675 00:39:45,640 --> 00:39:48,959 Speaker 1: the step that you know is right, regardless of the consequences. 676 00:39:49,239 --> 00:39:51,480 Speaker 1: That's true but I think I know a little bit 677 00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:55,200 Speaker 1: about what would heal black and white and brown and 678 00:39:55,280 --> 00:40:00,160 Speaker 1: all colors in between. It's and justice for all, liberty 679 00:40:00,200 --> 00:40:03,920 Speaker 1: and justice for all. And we started our adventure. I 680 00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:07,680 Speaker 1: told you that reparations would be too late for my 681 00:40:07,760 --> 00:40:11,480 Speaker 1: mother to benefit from, and um, that's unfortunate because she 682 00:40:11,560 --> 00:40:14,799 Speaker 1: deserves it. But talking with her and just listening to 683 00:40:14,840 --> 00:40:18,799 Speaker 1: her stories, when they finally start talking about how to 684 00:40:18,880 --> 00:40:22,880 Speaker 1: do this, the making and the repair towards this deliberate injury, 685 00:40:23,040 --> 00:40:26,239 Speaker 1: the most care and attention should be to create a 686 00:40:26,320 --> 00:40:30,120 Speaker 1: salve of bomb to soothe the broken hearts of a 687 00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:34,720 Speaker 1: lost people who feel stateless and are exhausted and tired 688 00:40:34,760 --> 00:40:38,760 Speaker 1: of talking about all this stuff. And this salve it's 689 00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:42,759 Speaker 1: gonna need to penetrate and detoxify the hardened shelve of 690 00:40:43,040 --> 00:40:46,319 Speaker 1: many white people and how they've been raised in this 691 00:40:46,440 --> 00:40:50,160 Speaker 1: and moral wicked stew for so long. Now that said, 692 00:40:50,200 --> 00:40:53,160 Speaker 1: I asked my mom the question that we've been asking 693 00:40:53,560 --> 00:40:57,000 Speaker 1: everybody that we've been talking to throughout this journey. Do 694 00:40:57,080 --> 00:40:59,959 Speaker 1: you think there should be reparations and do you think 695 00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:04,560 Speaker 1: will get them in our lifetime? I learned to the 696 00:41:04,600 --> 00:41:07,400 Speaker 1: second part person, No, I don't think you'll ever get them. 697 00:41:08,280 --> 00:41:12,600 Speaker 1: I think you may get portions are partial. I think 698 00:41:12,640 --> 00:41:20,480 Speaker 1: America cannot face its own darkness, in its own soul 699 00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:25,640 Speaker 1: to the point that it can say yes. They keep 700 00:41:25,680 --> 00:41:31,480 Speaker 1: telling themselves, especially since the Barack Obama the twenty Center, 701 00:41:31,600 --> 00:41:38,239 Speaker 1: I say African American both ways, since he made it, 702 00:41:38,800 --> 00:41:42,040 Speaker 1: that's what they put up in our face. But their 703 00:41:42,200 --> 00:41:46,440 Speaker 1: souls are so dark and so dead and so weak 704 00:41:47,160 --> 00:41:51,680 Speaker 1: that they can't say yes. This squarely is on us. 705 00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:55,880 Speaker 1: We owe loads of minorities. Look what they can do 706 00:41:56,000 --> 00:41:58,080 Speaker 1: to the Indians. For years they give them a little 707 00:41:58,120 --> 00:42:01,120 Speaker 1: bit of land, and oh, y'all, now we've done them right, 708 00:42:01,800 --> 00:42:04,880 Speaker 1: no matter that you've taken back a large part of it, 709 00:42:05,440 --> 00:42:11,200 Speaker 1: or you broken treaties after treaties that you've almost decimated 710 00:42:12,080 --> 00:42:16,359 Speaker 1: a large percentage of their tribes. No, I don't think 711 00:42:16,400 --> 00:42:22,239 Speaker 1: America is ever going to be morally that strong, morally 712 00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:26,080 Speaker 1: that just. But I think we will get like little 713 00:42:26,280 --> 00:42:30,000 Speaker 1: like the puzzles, a little piece here, a little piece there, 714 00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:32,759 Speaker 1: And every time they put a little piece, they will 715 00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:36,600 Speaker 1: try to use that for justification as to being enough. 716 00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:40,160 Speaker 1: How much more do they want? We want the whole plate? 717 00:42:40,600 --> 00:42:43,080 Speaker 1: Why shouldn't we have the whole plate? You want the 718 00:42:43,080 --> 00:42:46,600 Speaker 1: whole plate I want, said to a white minister at 719 00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:52,200 Speaker 1: Lutheran Church that hired us to do social ministry. How 720 00:42:52,320 --> 00:42:56,600 Speaker 1: come you want so much for you and so little 721 00:42:57,280 --> 00:43:01,560 Speaker 1: for me? Why is that? What is it about your soul? 722 00:43:01,760 --> 00:43:06,640 Speaker 1: Your being? Why is it that you can't see me 723 00:43:06,760 --> 00:43:10,080 Speaker 1: as a full human being? If you've got a bold fool, 724 00:43:10,480 --> 00:43:14,560 Speaker 1: why wouldn't not want a bold fool? What's different about me? 725 00:43:15,719 --> 00:43:18,359 Speaker 1: I don't live in a different life. I don't have 726 00:43:18,600 --> 00:43:22,960 Speaker 1: less build or have a hand out that says I 727 00:43:23,040 --> 00:43:25,720 Speaker 1: only have half a need. I have a full need. 728 00:43:26,480 --> 00:43:32,160 Speaker 1: And the more, if you are just and thinking righteously, 729 00:43:33,360 --> 00:43:38,040 Speaker 1: you would know, the more self sufficient I am, the 730 00:43:38,160 --> 00:43:42,520 Speaker 1: more productive I can be, the more we both benefit. 731 00:43:42,920 --> 00:43:47,880 Speaker 1: Why can't you get that? That's a doctor in a wholenets, 732 00:43:47,880 --> 00:43:53,200 Speaker 1: of true health, of true humanity. Why can't you see it? 733 00:43:54,640 --> 00:43:59,120 Speaker 1: Next time? On reparations, the big payback? If you are 734 00:43:59,200 --> 00:44:04,839 Speaker 1: going to who have reparations for everybody? Then one you're 735 00:44:04,880 --> 00:44:09,160 Speaker 1: not talking about the wealthcare and the disparities and getting 736 00:44:09,280 --> 00:44:12,000 Speaker 1: rid of it. And I have no problem with everybody 737 00:44:12,040 --> 00:44:15,279 Speaker 1: getting something. What I do have a problem with is 738 00:44:15,440 --> 00:44:20,960 Speaker 1: not directing targeted funds towards black people who are slave descendants, 739 00:44:21,520 --> 00:44:24,360 Speaker 1: who we know that right here in the United States 740 00:44:24,800 --> 00:44:27,319 Speaker 1: were the ones to suffer and to be used to 741 00:44:27,400 --> 00:44:32,520 Speaker 1: prop up capitalism all these years. So anybody who was 742 00:44:32,560 --> 00:44:35,560 Speaker 1: a slave here in the United States and is a 743 00:44:35,640 --> 00:44:39,240 Speaker 1: descendant of a slave here in the United States ought 744 00:44:39,280 --> 00:44:43,680 Speaker 1: to get reparations. Other people can argue for their own. 745 00:44:47,320 --> 00:44:50,400 Speaker 1: This podcast is produced by Eric Alexander, Ben Arnon and 746 00:44:50,440 --> 00:44:54,080 Speaker 1: Whitney Down. The executive producers are Charlemagne the God and 747 00:44:54,200 --> 00:44:58,040 Speaker 1: Dolly S. Bishop. The Supervising producer is Nicole Childers and 748 00:44:58,040 --> 00:45:01,600 Speaker 1: the lead producer is Devin Madock Obbins. The producer writer 749 00:45:01,719 --> 00:45:04,920 Speaker 1: is Serres Castle, and the Associate producer is Kevin Phamm. 750 00:45:05,320 --> 00:45:09,400 Speaker 1: With additional research support provided by Nile Blast. Original music 751 00:45:09,440 --> 00:45:18,680 Speaker 1: by d J D T p R Reparations. The Big 752 00:45:18,719 --> 00:45:21,640 Speaker 1: Payback is a production of color Farm Media, I Heart 753 00:45:21,719 --> 00:45:25,560 Speaker 1: Radio and The Black Effect Podcast Network in association with 754 00:45:25,640 --> 00:45:29,120 Speaker 1: Best Case Studios. For more podcasts from I Heart Radio, 755 00:45:29,600 --> 00:45:33,480 Speaker 1: visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever 756 00:45:33,560 --> 00:45:34,960 Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.