WEBVTT - Episode 2 – Missing 0:00:04.519 --> 0:00:04.720 Is that. 0:00:04.760 --> 0:00:06.400 Okay, do you have enough friends? 0:00:06.720 --> 0:00:06.920 Yeah? 0:00:07.960 --> 0:00:09.080 Okay, me too, but you. 0:00:09.080 --> 0:00:10.639 Can move back four more interesting. 0:00:10.800 --> 0:00:17.720 Beth Carris and I are in Gaithersburg, Maryland, stuffing ourselves 0:00:17.760 --> 0:00:19.759 into this car and about to go on a ride 0:00:19.760 --> 0:00:23.200 along of sorts. We've asked Troy to help us recreate 0:00:23.239 --> 0:00:26.400 what must have been one of the most frightening, chaotic, 0:00:26.760 --> 0:00:30.479 and terrifying days of his life. 0:00:30.760 --> 0:00:34.400 So I went up into here and then came back 0:00:34.440 --> 0:00:35.120 down this way. 0:00:35.720 --> 0:00:38.760 Beth is in the back, and I'm upfront with Troy, 0:00:38.840 --> 0:00:42.440 who's driving. He's our tour guide today and has agreed 0:00:42.479 --> 0:00:45.720 to bring us back to September eighth, twenty fourteen, the 0:00:45.840 --> 0:00:47.280 day everything changed. 0:00:49.120 --> 0:00:52.800 Probably the first place we could hit would be where 0:00:53.000 --> 0:00:56.600 Jacob went missing from on the way back, and then 0:00:56.640 --> 0:00:59.240 from there we'll go to Clarksburg and start from there. 0:01:03.320 --> 0:01:07.800 I'm Sarah Trelevin and this is Unrestorable, an original podcast 0:01:07.840 --> 0:01:10.759 from Anonymous content and iHeartRadio. 0:01:21.200 --> 0:01:22.760 Where are we? 0:01:22.760 --> 0:01:27.520 We are entering what they call Darnstown or North Potomac, 0:01:27.560 --> 0:01:29.200 which is actually still Gaithersburg. 0:01:29.720 --> 0:01:31.800 We just drove through what looks like a pretty nice neighborhood. 0:01:32.680 --> 0:01:35.080 Yeah, this is Lakeland's here, and then We're going to 0:01:35.120 --> 0:01:37.840 come out on twenty eight up here, and that'll take 0:01:37.920 --> 0:01:39.760 us right out to where Lindsay used to live. 0:01:41.680 --> 0:01:44.720 It's been about nine years since Troy has seen or 0:01:44.760 --> 0:01:49.280 heard from his two youngest kids, Sarah three and Jacob two. 0:01:49.600 --> 0:01:52.560 They were last seen with their mother, Catherine Hogle, and 0:01:52.600 --> 0:01:55.680 despite her insistence that no harm has ever come to them, 0:01:55.880 --> 0:01:59.160 police charged her with the children's murders, but she has 0:01:59.240 --> 0:02:02.120 yet to face those charges in court. Years of mental 0:02:02.120 --> 0:02:06.240 health problems led to Catherine being deemed incompetent, in other words, 0:02:06.360 --> 0:02:09.040 unable to assist in her own defense. So for the 0:02:09.080 --> 0:02:12.240 past nine years, Catherine has called the Clifton T. Perkins 0:02:12.240 --> 0:02:19.680 Hospital Center, a psychiatric institution home. At the time that 0:02:19.760 --> 0:02:22.480 his kids went missing, Troy and Catherine were still together 0:02:22.880 --> 0:02:26.760 trying to raise their three kids, but Catherine's mental health 0:02:26.760 --> 0:02:29.359 had been deteriorating and she'd been in and out of 0:02:29.400 --> 0:02:33.480 mental health facilities. Her parents, especially her mother Lindsay, had 0:02:33.520 --> 0:02:36.359 been helping with the kids, but even with his mother 0:02:36.360 --> 0:02:39.800 in law's help, Troy was basically a single parent. He 0:02:39.880 --> 0:02:41.480 was the one who did all the cooking and cleaning. 0:02:42.080 --> 0:02:44.320 He made sure that the kids got to school and 0:02:44.360 --> 0:02:45.840 gave them baths when they got home. 0:02:46.360 --> 0:02:47.919 Two o'clock is when I picked her up from the 0:02:48.000 --> 0:02:48.600 day program. 0:02:49.040 --> 0:02:52.040 Troy spent the night of September seventh, twenty fourteen, at 0:02:52.080 --> 0:02:56.160 work and the next day, September eighth, running errants that 0:02:56.200 --> 0:02:59.280 included picking Catherine up from the psychiatric hospital, where she 0:02:59.320 --> 0:03:02.080 attended a day program from morning through early afternoon. 0:03:02.639 --> 0:03:04.000 I fell up, she's not out there. 0:03:04.800 --> 0:03:07.880 Finally she comes walking out a little bit after two thirty, 0:03:08.120 --> 0:03:09.560 so I'm like, what the heck is going on? You know, 0:03:10.200 --> 0:03:12.000 She's like, oh, I got, you know, hung up talking 0:03:12.080 --> 0:03:15.440 with this counselor and this and whatever all eyes Later on, 0:03:15.480 --> 0:03:17.440 I find out because when I look at her phone records, 0:03:17.480 --> 0:03:19.000 she actually was trying to call CAPS. 0:03:19.680 --> 0:03:22.239 Troy was irritated because he didn't want to be late 0:03:22.240 --> 0:03:24.040 to pick up his oldest son, who would soon be 0:03:24.120 --> 0:03:27.360 dropped off by the school bus. But Catherine was normal, 0:03:27.639 --> 0:03:30.520 fine to Troy. She was acting like it was any 0:03:30.520 --> 0:03:31.000 other day. 0:03:31.320 --> 0:03:33.320 I said, my little man can't be waiting. 0:03:33.960 --> 0:03:36.000 The plan was to pick up their oldest son and 0:03:36.040 --> 0:03:37.880 then get Sarah and Jacob from daycare. 0:03:39.520 --> 0:03:40.480 And where did she tell you? 0:03:40.600 --> 0:03:40.680 Like? 0:03:40.880 --> 0:03:43.000 Was she like, oh, they're in this neighborhood. They're near 0:03:43.040 --> 0:03:44.240 this complex much as they. 0:03:44.120 --> 0:03:46.400 Were in daycare, So there was nothing really said at 0:03:46.400 --> 0:03:48.000 this point because I thought I knew which one we 0:03:48.000 --> 0:03:48.520 were going to. 0:03:53.880 --> 0:03:56.680 Troy and Catherine had been discussing sending the two youngest 0:03:56.720 --> 0:03:59.680 kids to daycare. They had talked about different options, but 0:04:00.120 --> 0:04:02.880 that morning, when Troy woke up after working a late shift, 0:04:03.120 --> 0:04:06.240 the kids weren't there. Catherine had made a decision to 0:04:06.320 --> 0:04:10.080 take them to daycare, she told him. Not being consulted 0:04:10.160 --> 0:04:14.760 about that decision definitely bothered Troy. But also Catherine wasn't 0:04:14.800 --> 0:04:17.280 supposed to be driving because of the medication she was on, 0:04:17.960 --> 0:04:21.920 and apparently she had driven both kids that morning. And 0:04:22.240 --> 0:04:25.560 at this point, are you thinking anything's wrong other than like, 0:04:25.600 --> 0:04:26.679 maybe this is a bit annoying. 0:04:27.279 --> 0:04:29.120 No, I'm thinking I'm going to go get my kids 0:04:29.120 --> 0:04:32.159 from the daycare and I'll determine, you know, if I 0:04:32.160 --> 0:04:34.400 want them to go back to that daycare. But I'm thinking, 0:04:34.480 --> 0:04:37.120 also what I need to do to make sure that 0:04:38.040 --> 0:04:41.039 she's not even awake when I'm not around them, if 0:04:41.080 --> 0:04:43.840 I need to have her not there at all, because 0:04:43.839 --> 0:04:45.760 she's gonna, you know, full of craft like this. 0:04:47.320 --> 0:04:49.359 Over the past few months, it had become clear to 0:04:49.400 --> 0:04:52.080 Troy that Catherine could not be trusted to be alone 0:04:52.160 --> 0:04:55.040 with her kids. The family questioned her ability to make 0:04:55.080 --> 0:04:58.280 decisions and worried about the impact of the medication she 0:04:58.360 --> 0:05:02.320 was taking. Lindsay says that Catherine would sometimes be so 0:05:02.520 --> 0:05:05.320 drugged that she would fall into a deep sleep, impossible 0:05:05.320 --> 0:05:11.880 to wake. Other times, Catherine seemed paranoid or confused or angry, 0:05:11.920 --> 0:05:14.800 making the other adults around her uncomfortable and worried about 0:05:14.800 --> 0:05:18.719 the children's safety. So as a family, they had decided 0:05:18.720 --> 0:05:22.040 that Catherine could not be alone with the children. Troy 0:05:22.240 --> 0:05:24.960 or her mother Lindsay or her father Randy had to 0:05:25.000 --> 0:05:29.560 be around. Troy's life for the year leading up to 0:05:29.600 --> 0:05:33.280 this event had been characterized by hypervigilants, the fear that 0:05:33.360 --> 0:05:36.080 Catherine might in some way endanger the kids, even if 0:05:36.080 --> 0:05:39.440 she didn't mean to hurt them. A unilateral move like this, 0:05:39.920 --> 0:05:42.159 the loss of control to someone with a history of 0:05:42.200 --> 0:05:46.240 making irrational decisions, was exactly what Troy had been afraid of. 0:05:47.160 --> 0:05:48.520 But up until this day. 0:05:48.839 --> 0:05:52.520 This car ride, no one imagined that Catherine would actively 0:05:52.600 --> 0:06:04.400 hurt the kids. The day of September eighth begins with 0:06:04.480 --> 0:06:06.919 Troy being woken up by his oldest son before the 0:06:06.960 --> 0:06:10.680 alarm clock even goes off. Troy needs to start their day, 0:06:10.960 --> 0:06:14.159 make breakfast for all three kids, and it's so early 0:06:14.240 --> 0:06:17.200 that Troy just assumes that his two youngest kids, Sarah 0:06:17.279 --> 0:06:18.920 and Jacob, are still asleep. 0:06:19.680 --> 0:06:22.479 I notice Jacob is not in his crib, which is 0:06:22.480 --> 0:06:25.000 actually in my room still, but it was normal for 0:06:25.080 --> 0:06:27.880 him to climb out and go to my oldest bed. 0:06:29.560 --> 0:06:31.919 Looking back, Troy now sees that there were hints that 0:06:32.000 --> 0:06:37.080 things were off, but things have been off for so 0:06:37.240 --> 0:06:40.160 long that the unusual had begun to feel somewhat normal. 0:06:40.760 --> 0:06:43.800 What was also not as normal, but fairly normals for 0:06:43.880 --> 0:06:45.840 all three of them to be in the same bed 0:06:45.880 --> 0:06:46.520 by the morning. 0:06:47.320 --> 0:06:49.440 So I look at in Sarah's She's not there. Something. 0:06:49.560 --> 0:06:52.640 Next, Troy goes into his eldest son's bedroom, expecting to 0:06:52.640 --> 0:06:54.200 see the youngest kids asleep together. 0:06:55.120 --> 0:06:57.120 Instead, the room is empty. 0:06:58.040 --> 0:07:01.600 So then I'm like, you know, okay, so they're not here. 0:07:02.440 --> 0:07:04.640 Troy looks out the window and sees that his car 0:07:04.760 --> 0:07:07.680 is gone too. When he calls Catherine's cell phone, he 0:07:07.720 --> 0:07:12.520 sees it vibrating on the coffee table. He calls Lindsay 0:07:12.640 --> 0:07:16.080 Catherine's mother, but she has no idea where Catherine, Sarah 0:07:16.200 --> 0:07:16.880 or Jacob are. 0:07:17.320 --> 0:07:21.560 I said, okay, and I get my oldest ready, get 0:07:21.600 --> 0:07:22.360 him on the bus. 0:07:22.760 --> 0:07:24.120 I didn't want to free came out. It seems. I 0:07:24.120 --> 0:07:25.679 got him on a bus. I called nine one one. 0:07:26.040 --> 0:07:29.720 That might seem extreme, I know, but things had become 0:07:29.800 --> 0:07:32.520 so chaotic that Troy didn't want to take any chances. 0:07:35.040 --> 0:07:37.040 But just as Troy's connecting with a nine to one 0:07:37.080 --> 0:07:40.440 to one dispatcher, Troy sees Catherine pull up in their car. 0:07:40.840 --> 0:07:43.320 I go to the car, What the hell is going 0:07:43.360 --> 0:07:44.120 on based you know? 0:07:44.240 --> 0:07:48.520 And she's like, oh, well, I took them to daycare. 0:07:48.520 --> 0:08:03.960 I said, hold on, I said, you're not, and where 0:08:04.000 --> 0:08:04.960 are we heading now? 0:08:05.480 --> 0:08:07.080 So right now we're heading to Clarksburg. 0:08:08.120 --> 0:08:09.080 And what's in Clarksburg. 0:08:09.760 --> 0:08:11.840 That's the apartment we lived in with. 0:08:11.880 --> 0:08:14.520 Troy believing his two youngest kids are in daycare and 0:08:14.560 --> 0:08:18.320 his oldest safely at school. His day is relatively stress free, 0:08:19.120 --> 0:08:22.720 but that irritated feeling he gets around Catherine settles in 0:08:22.800 --> 0:08:24.400 as soon as he picks her up from her day 0:08:24.440 --> 0:08:28.280 program at the hospital. She's running late, and Troy is 0:08:28.320 --> 0:08:30.280 worried they will be late. Picking up their eldest son. 0:08:30.640 --> 0:08:31.880 I was like, yeah, so let's go. 0:08:32.280 --> 0:08:34.319 They make it on time to meet the school bus. 0:08:34.640 --> 0:08:37.280 Next it's off to get the two babies off to 0:08:37.360 --> 0:08:39.760 a daycare that Troy has never been to but thinks 0:08:39.800 --> 0:08:40.559 he knows. 0:08:40.920 --> 0:08:44.120 I got ready to turn, but she said go, you know, continue, 0:08:44.120 --> 0:08:45.640 She was like, no, not that one. She was like, 0:08:45.679 --> 0:08:49.160 it's down farther. I said, oh, I thought. She was like, no, 0:08:49.360 --> 0:08:51.880 there's the one right behind me. So I keep going right. 0:08:53.120 --> 0:08:56.000 So if we're driving here and I'm going, okay, well, 0:08:56.120 --> 0:08:58.280 I'm like, there's no daycares right over here? Is there? 0:08:58.360 --> 0:08:59.640 And she was like, not that I know of. 0:09:00.400 --> 0:09:03.120 Catherine tells Troy to keep driving, but things are getting 0:09:03.200 --> 0:09:04.719 very confusing, and. 0:09:04.720 --> 0:09:07.880 I was like, so you're positive it's in Germantown and 0:09:07.960 --> 0:09:11.120 she said yeah. I said, well, we're in Gaithersburg now, 0:09:11.360 --> 0:09:13.400 so I need to make a U turn. 0:09:13.720 --> 0:09:15.840 And the farther they go, the more it's clear that 0:09:15.920 --> 0:09:19.080 Catherine is fuzzy on where she left their two youngest kids. 0:09:19.480 --> 0:09:22.120 And Catherine is just sort of almost treating this like 0:09:22.160 --> 0:09:25.240 you're having kind of a trivial argument, like it's not 0:09:25.280 --> 0:09:26.960 a big deal. What are you getting So upset about 0:09:27.320 --> 0:09:28.600 right exactly. 0:09:28.880 --> 0:09:30.760 Her tone is kind of like, I don't understand why 0:09:30.800 --> 0:09:31.199 you're so. 0:09:31.360 --> 0:09:33.200 Angry For Troy. 0:09:33.360 --> 0:09:37.320 It was infuriating Catherine, seeming nonchalance about picking up Sarah 0:09:37.400 --> 0:09:37.920 and Jacob. 0:09:38.440 --> 0:09:43.400 I said, so, what's the play is called? I don't know? Okay, 0:09:43.440 --> 0:09:44.520 Well what road is it on? 0:09:45.760 --> 0:09:48.720 I don't remember the name of the street, Troy, I said, 0:09:48.800 --> 0:09:49.839 you don't remember what's called. 0:09:49.920 --> 0:09:52.240 No, well, give me their phone number. I'll call them 0:09:52.840 --> 0:09:53.360 right now. 0:09:53.600 --> 0:09:57.079 I'm literally in this lane in this conversation sapen And 0:09:57.120 --> 0:09:59.960 that's when she said, I don't have their phone though. 0:10:00.720 --> 0:10:02.920 And then I looked at her. This light was red. 0:10:02.920 --> 0:10:04.160 I stopped and I looked at her. I said, let 0:10:04.160 --> 0:10:06.800 me get this straight. You took my kids and dropped 0:10:06.840 --> 0:10:09.640 them off at a daycare. You don't know the name 0:10:09.679 --> 0:10:11.800 of it, you don't have an address, you don't know 0:10:11.840 --> 0:10:15.040 what street it's on, you have no idea where it is, 0:10:15.040 --> 0:10:18.600 and you don't have a phone number. And she looked 0:10:18.600 --> 0:10:20.160 at me, and that's when she said, well, they have 0:10:20.240 --> 0:10:23.360 my number. And that's whenever I felt like I was 0:10:23.400 --> 0:10:24.120 going to explode. 0:10:27.040 --> 0:10:29.160 But out of the corner of his eye, Troy sees 0:10:29.200 --> 0:10:33.160 his son, his eldest who's there in the backseat and 0:10:33.240 --> 0:10:34.240 he's hearing. 0:10:33.920 --> 0:10:36.840 All of this, and I said, okay, I can't do that. 0:10:40.200 --> 0:10:42.920 Before Troy can go any further, he needs someone to 0:10:42.960 --> 0:10:46.360 take his eldest son. So Troy calls Catherine's mother, Lindsey. 0:10:47.880 --> 0:10:49.640 I said, I want you to take my son. And 0:10:50.040 --> 0:10:52.319 Catherine was like, what are you doing? And I said, 0:10:52.559 --> 0:10:53.960 what do you mean? What am I doing? I'm having 0:10:54.000 --> 0:10:56.079 your mom meet us. He's going to go with her 0:10:56.920 --> 0:10:59.680 and she was like, he's not going with her. I said, yes, 0:10:59.720 --> 0:11:05.560 see it, And so she's going we'll go pick up 0:11:05.600 --> 0:11:07.920 you know, Sarah and Jacob. And I said, I said, no, 0:11:08.000 --> 0:11:10.200 we're going to go pick him up. I said, but first, 0:11:10.360 --> 0:11:12.000 we're going to meet your mom here. 0:11:12.960 --> 0:11:14.760 Troy pulls over to the side of the road to 0:11:14.760 --> 0:11:17.760 wait for Lindsay, who shows up ten minutes later, but 0:11:17.880 --> 0:11:20.720 Catherine is shaken out of complacency when Lindsay shows up 0:11:20.720 --> 0:11:24.280 and separates Catherine from her eldest son. She was adamant 0:11:24.320 --> 0:11:27.040 that Lindsay not take him. It seemed to trigger something 0:11:27.160 --> 0:11:29.320 desperate furious in Catherine. 0:11:29.600 --> 0:11:32.000 She starts going, well, he's not going through I'm like, yes, yes, yes, 0:11:32.240 --> 0:11:34.360 and She's. 0:11:33.440 --> 0:11:36.360 Telling her mom, Mom, just leave, just leaving. Let's going now. 0:11:36.440 --> 0:11:39.720 I'm not leaving without him at this point, and Troy 0:11:39.800 --> 0:11:40.839 wants me to take him. 0:11:40.840 --> 0:11:44.040 You know, all of this behavior is clearly troubling. 0:11:44.720 --> 0:11:48.439 Catherine had been struggling for years, but today this is 0:11:48.480 --> 0:11:51.320 all new. In the months leading up to this, Catherine 0:11:51.400 --> 0:11:54.720 was fine with her mother's involvement in their lives. Lindsay 0:11:54.720 --> 0:11:57.200 had been a safe harbor for the family. She'd picked 0:11:57.280 --> 0:11:59.760 up huge amounts of slack as a mother and grandmother. 0:12:00.600 --> 0:12:03.920 But here and now, Catherine seems determined not to be 0:12:03.960 --> 0:12:07.560 separated from her oldest son. Troy ignores her and picks 0:12:07.640 --> 0:12:10.200 up their son, putting him in the back of Lindsay's car, 0:12:11.240 --> 0:12:11.920 and I tell. 0:12:11.760 --> 0:12:14.319 Her go she pulls off. 0:12:14.960 --> 0:12:17.200 Catherine starts banging on the back of her car while 0:12:17.240 --> 0:12:20.760 she's pulling off and springing obscenities at her. I said, 0:12:20.760 --> 0:12:22.880 what the hell's wrong with you? She said, I don't 0:12:22.920 --> 0:12:26.640 trust her with him. I said that's not true. She's 0:12:27.200 --> 0:12:32.080 watched him a million times. So I said, so, where 0:12:32.080 --> 0:12:33.840 are we going to get him? And she goes, well, 0:12:33.840 --> 0:12:36.000 they're up here. She said, fine, let's go get him 0:12:36.160 --> 0:12:37.760 because I want to go get him as soon as 0:12:37.840 --> 0:12:38.640 possible from her. 0:12:39.559 --> 0:12:42.280 At this point, Troy is wondering if this is some 0:12:42.360 --> 0:12:46.160 kind of game, a control thing, maybe punishment for the 0:12:46.200 --> 0:12:50.520 last year, for the rules, the hospitalizations, for telling Catherine 0:12:50.520 --> 0:12:53.480 how she could be a mom. Maybe Catherine feels like 0:12:53.520 --> 0:12:56.720 she's in trouble again, yet again letting down her family. 0:12:57.520 --> 0:12:59.960 At this point, I'm not really scared because I can 0:13:00.080 --> 0:13:01.480 my kids are in the daycare and we're going to 0:13:01.480 --> 0:13:01.960 pick them up. 0:13:02.080 --> 0:13:03.040 But I'm fearing. 0:13:10.360 --> 0:13:12.800 Right before the kids went missing, Catherine had been getting 0:13:12.800 --> 0:13:17.199 regular treatment. She was being medicated. Troy wondered if maybe 0:13:17.200 --> 0:13:22.080 they could start enjoying life's mundane moments again. But now 0:13:22.200 --> 0:13:25.120 Troy is wondering if maybe he'd been in denial that 0:13:25.200 --> 0:13:28.880 in reality they could never really be a family, And 0:13:28.920 --> 0:13:32.360 maybe he has no idea what Catherine is actually capable of. 0:13:33.080 --> 0:13:34.640 We drive up here. 0:13:35.840 --> 0:13:40.079 And I'm asking her, you know where there are things 0:13:40.160 --> 0:13:44.760 like that, and she says, well, you know where it is? 0:13:44.760 --> 0:13:47.400 This right here here was the daycare. 0:13:47.440 --> 0:13:49.680 He knew it was close to the one where his 0:13:49.720 --> 0:13:51.560 oldest had gone before he started school. 0:13:52.120 --> 0:13:55.880 So are you telling me that they're at the daycare 0:13:57.040 --> 0:13:59.760 where we put the oldest, and she said no. I said, 0:13:59.800 --> 0:14:01.599 so some one right behind it. That's what you're telling me. 0:14:01.640 --> 0:14:03.840 We're gonna go there and pick him up now. And 0:14:03.880 --> 0:14:05.440 she said, well, no, not that one. I said, well, 0:14:05.440 --> 0:14:07.560 it was the only two over here. So at that 0:14:07.559 --> 0:14:09.400 point I got the car. I opened up that door 0:14:09.559 --> 0:14:11.480 and I'm saying above her, I'm gonna where are my kids? 0:14:13.040 --> 0:14:16.280 And say sorry, you get out, walk around and open 0:14:16.320 --> 0:14:16.880 her door. 0:14:17.000 --> 0:14:19.800 Right and I'm gonna where are my kids? And she goes, 0:14:20.560 --> 0:14:24.680 they're in daycare, Troy, you know? And I said, tell 0:14:24.720 --> 0:14:28.800 me where my kids are? And whatever it is inside 0:14:28.800 --> 0:14:30.280 of me, I can't put my hands on woman. I 0:14:30.280 --> 0:14:32.280 wanted to yank her out and grab her and like 0:14:32.400 --> 0:14:34.680 force her to talk, but I just can't put my 0:14:34.720 --> 0:14:36.600 hands on a woman out of anger, and I didn't. 0:14:38.240 --> 0:14:40.000 It may sound terrible, say I wish I could at 0:14:40.000 --> 0:14:41.480 this point. I wish I was one of those dudes 0:14:41.520 --> 0:14:44.400 like it in that moment only, but just not. I 0:14:44.400 --> 0:14:48.480 couldn't do it. So there's all kinds of things going 0:14:48.480 --> 0:14:51.080 in my mind. I could make her talk, but nothing's happening. 0:14:52.400 --> 0:14:55.520 Troy is losing control, but he knows he needs to 0:14:55.520 --> 0:14:59.080 stay calm. He's picturing Sarah and Jacobs sitting at some 0:14:59.160 --> 0:15:03.400 daycare god knows where, feeling forgotten, the only kids whose 0:15:03.440 --> 0:15:06.040 parents haven't come to pick them up. But he's also 0:15:06.120 --> 0:15:08.840 desperately hanging onto the hope that he'll see their faces 0:15:09.160 --> 0:15:12.640 looking up at him when he finally gets there. Are 0:15:12.680 --> 0:15:15.360 you thinking at this point that maybe she doesn't know 0:15:15.400 --> 0:15:17.680 where the kids are, or maybe she's forgotten or anything. 0:15:17.800 --> 0:15:19.600 No, she's nothing with it. 0:15:19.680 --> 0:15:24.480 Or even since showing any signs of having this psychotic 0:15:24.520 --> 0:15:27.880 break with no memory or any nothing like that. She's 0:15:27.920 --> 0:15:31.960 not even acting like in terms of what I've seen 0:15:32.040 --> 0:15:35.000 is in her mental illness when it's acting up or 0:15:35.040 --> 0:15:36.240 bad or whatever you want to call it. 0:15:36.960 --> 0:15:39.720 Are the two of you talking about anything as this 0:15:39.840 --> 0:15:40.240 goes on. 0:15:40.440 --> 0:15:41.720 I have nothing to say to her. 0:15:42.000 --> 0:15:44.880 I just want to get my kids, get them home, 0:15:45.040 --> 0:15:46.720 get them in bed, and then put her ass out. 0:15:47.480 --> 0:15:49.040 That's all I'm thinking. At this point. 0:15:49.680 --> 0:15:52.160 She's thinking like I'm sending her to her parents or whatever, 0:15:52.600 --> 0:15:53.280 or the street. 0:15:53.320 --> 0:15:55.040 I don't care. At this point. She's a danger to 0:15:55.080 --> 0:15:56.440 my kids, So I'm just done. 0:16:01.240 --> 0:16:05.000 Driving from place to place. Troy's desperation grows. It's now 0:16:05.040 --> 0:16:08.280 after six pm. The traffic is thinning as other people 0:16:08.320 --> 0:16:10.440 make at home to spend the evening with their families 0:16:11.000 --> 0:16:13.880 to make dinner for their kids. When they pull up 0:16:13.920 --> 0:16:16.720 to a church that Catherine has directed Troy to, he 0:16:16.760 --> 0:16:18.600 feels a slight pang of relief when he sees a 0:16:18.640 --> 0:16:23.000 playground and some toys. At this point, any sign of 0:16:23.080 --> 0:16:24.080 children is a good thing. 0:16:24.840 --> 0:16:25.440 So we go there. 0:16:26.160 --> 0:16:28.280 There's a young lady there who runs the daycare, but 0:16:28.400 --> 0:16:30.000 all the kids are gone. 0:16:30.320 --> 0:16:32.760 The woman who runs the daycare confirms that Sarah and 0:16:32.840 --> 0:16:35.880 Jacob were never there, that she's never seen Catherine before. 0:16:36.720 --> 0:16:39.240 Catherine asked to use the bathroom, then comes back out 0:16:39.240 --> 0:16:40.560 and joins Troy in the car. 0:16:41.240 --> 0:16:43.000 So what she did inside What turns out is she 0:16:43.040 --> 0:16:43.800 asked to use phone. 0:16:43.880 --> 0:16:47.960 She called her mom repeatedly and tried to get her 0:16:48.080 --> 0:16:49.080 to bring the oldest back. 0:16:49.560 --> 0:16:50.880 Well, it turns out her mom. 0:16:50.720 --> 0:16:52.520 Told her was that you know, as soon as you 0:16:52.560 --> 0:16:54.080 produced the other two, then you'll see him. 0:16:54.800 --> 0:16:57.600 Troy knows this is serious, but what are his options. 0:16:58.080 --> 0:17:00.480 Catherine is the only one who knows where Sarah and 0:17:00.560 --> 0:17:03.360 Jacob are, and if he doesn't play her game or 0:17:03.440 --> 0:17:06.480 whatever this is, then maybe she'll just decide not to 0:17:06.520 --> 0:17:09.560 tell him. They start driving again. 0:17:10.000 --> 0:17:11.320 I was like, is it this one? She was like, nah, 0:17:11.440 --> 0:17:13.959 not that one. I pointed out, like pretty much every 0:17:14.000 --> 0:17:14.920 church on was it this one? 0:17:15.000 --> 0:17:17.280 Is it? This one? Is this one? The whole way 0:17:17.359 --> 0:17:17.720 up there? 0:17:17.840 --> 0:17:20.119 You know, at this point Catherine was not supposed to 0:17:20.160 --> 0:17:22.600 be alone, unsupervised with the children. 0:17:23.040 --> 0:17:25.160 Just a reminder that Beth Carris is in the car 0:17:25.200 --> 0:17:25.880 with us as well. 0:17:26.359 --> 0:17:28.399 I mean, maybe you didn't want to go there in 0:17:28.440 --> 0:17:30.800 your mind that she had done something with the children, 0:17:30.840 --> 0:17:32.520 but there was a reason why she wasn't supposed to 0:17:32.520 --> 0:17:33.240 be alone. 0:17:32.920 --> 0:17:36.760 With them, right right, And it wasn't that anyone actually 0:17:36.800 --> 0:17:40.080 at that point believed that she would physically purposely hurt them. 0:17:40.119 --> 0:17:42.080 It was more of the decision making stuff. 0:17:53.200 --> 0:17:56.439 But it's at this point, close to seven pm, the 0:17:56.520 --> 0:17:59.400 sun starting to dip, that the worst case scenario must 0:17:59.440 --> 0:18:07.600 be starting to creep into Troy's mind. Troy and Catherine 0:18:07.600 --> 0:18:09.760 had been in the car for more than four hours 0:18:09.880 --> 0:18:12.880 when they arrived at one more daycare, and this one 0:18:12.960 --> 0:18:18.199 is still open. Troy is sure that this is the 0:18:18.200 --> 0:18:20.879 one that he's going to walk through those doors and 0:18:20.960 --> 0:18:25.440 see his children. As he pulls up, he can feel 0:18:25.440 --> 0:18:27.000 his heart pounding in his chest. 0:18:28.840 --> 0:18:33.840 I pulled into it was actually this middle spot here. 0:18:35.640 --> 0:18:39.000 There was nothing here. There was like one car parked 0:18:39.080 --> 0:18:42.320 in the back there. So I'm going, so this is way, 0:18:42.560 --> 0:18:46.159 she says, yes. So I get out, walk quickly to 0:18:46.240 --> 0:18:49.840 the door. Here, go inside, and I'm so sorry I'm late. 0:18:49.880 --> 0:18:51.960 You know, I came to get my kids and the 0:18:52.040 --> 0:18:55.280 ladies looking at me, going, ain't no kids here. I'm going, uh, 0:18:56.760 --> 0:18:58.680 you know, I give their names, like Sarah and Jacob. 0:18:58.960 --> 0:19:01.040 She was like, no, bought my phone. I showed her 0:19:01.040 --> 0:19:04.920 a picture on like these two and she's like they 0:19:04.920 --> 0:19:14.280 were never here. She was like, we've never seen them. 0:19:16.080 --> 0:19:17.280 Troy changes his mind. 0:19:17.440 --> 0:19:22.119 At this moment, whatever Catherine is doing, whatever game she's playing, 0:19:22.520 --> 0:19:23.879 he's done. 0:19:24.320 --> 0:19:28.440 I'm thinking I'm going to the police station to basically 0:19:28.560 --> 0:19:30.640 have them do whatever they need to do to find 0:19:30.640 --> 0:19:34.199 out where my kids are. And I'm thinking that I 0:19:34.240 --> 0:19:36.720 need to get there before I lose control over my emotions. 0:19:36.720 --> 0:19:40.560 At this point, you know, this is it's just too much. 0:19:40.600 --> 0:19:43.119 At this point, I'm like this, it's crazy. 0:19:44.200 --> 0:19:47.200 So you're like really feeling on the edge here, Yes. 0:19:48.040 --> 0:19:50.320 And it's at this point I still don't think in 0:19:50.320 --> 0:19:50.800 my mind. 0:19:50.840 --> 0:19:52.080 She physically hurt my kids. 0:19:52.080 --> 0:19:54.080 But I'm thinking she has left my kids somewhere where 0:19:54.320 --> 0:19:57.239 no one is except maybe one person sitting there, you know, 0:19:57.680 --> 0:20:00.359 because there's two kids stuck there, who's probably gonna call 0:20:00.400 --> 0:20:05.880 the police or CPS, thinking that they've been abandoned. She owes, 0:20:05.920 --> 0:20:08.080 why are we pulling down here? And I said to 0:20:08.200 --> 0:20:10.240 the police station is here? We're going to the police station. 0:20:10.320 --> 0:20:12.840 When I said that to her about right here, and 0:20:12.880 --> 0:20:14.640