WEBVTT - Work in Progress: Dylan Mulvaney

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<v Speaker 1>Hi, everyone, it's Sophia. Welcome to work in progress. Welcome

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<v Speaker 1>back to work in progress friends. I am so excited

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<v Speaker 1>to sit down with one of my favorite personalities, comedians, storytellers, girlies.

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<v Speaker 1>Today we are joined by Dylan mulvaney. She is here

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<v Speaker 1>to talk about her new book, Paper Doll Notes from

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<v Speaker 1>a Late Bloomer. In this book, Dylan pulls back the

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<v Speaker 1>curtain on her life, from the it girl online lifestyle

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<v Speaker 1>to witty and intimate reflections of her journey both pre

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<v Speaker 1>and post transition, family school memories, dealing with the Internet, theater, manifesting,

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<v Speaker 1>being a Broadway diva, all of it. Today, we are

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<v Speaker 1>going to dig into the emotional journey of identity. We're

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<v Speaker 1>gonna laugh quite a bit about how ridiculous life can be,

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<v Speaker 1>and we're going to talk about why this book is

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<v Speaker 1>a love letter to every single person who stands up

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<v Speaker 1>for queer joy. Let's dive in with Dylan mlvany.

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<v Speaker 2>A. I'm here here, but it's funny because I feel

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<v Speaker 2>we did just see each other two days ago. We did,

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<v Speaker 2>but we didn't get enough air time.

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<v Speaker 1>No, and that was also a bit of a whirlwind.

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<v Speaker 1>It's such a great event.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, tell the people overwhelming. Tell people where we were.

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<v Speaker 1>So we were at the Elton John Aids Foundation Giant

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<v Speaker 1>Academy Awards fundraiser, amazing gala dinner.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, chapel Roane. Oh my god, you've been to this before?

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<v Speaker 1>Yes?

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<v Speaker 2>How many times? Uh?

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<v Speaker 1>Three?

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<v Speaker 2>Maybe? Okay? I think this was my first one. I'm

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<v Speaker 2>also really happy because I've been on a few podcasts

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<v Speaker 2>lately where like they're like, this comes out in five months,

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<v Speaker 2>but this one will actually come out soon so we

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<v Speaker 2>can talk about it.

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<v Speaker 1>But that's because this is coming out.

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<v Speaker 2>Because we're talking about my book, and my book comes

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<v Speaker 2>out next week, and I'm so excited. I I'm sending

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<v Speaker 2>you the whole package that's going to be coming with

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<v Speaker 2>my lush bath bomb and everything.

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<v Speaker 1>But you love a bath bomb.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm upset. Do you take baths?

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<v Speaker 1>I should?

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<v Speaker 2>I can already take this. ADHD is going to be

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<v Speaker 2>kicking in for both of us pretty soon.

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<v Speaker 1>It's hard for me to sit in a bath.

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<v Speaker 2>I well, yeah, I think that. I like to bring

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<v Speaker 2>all my activities, so I like a book, I like

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<v Speaker 2>to memorize lines in the bath. I like to I

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<v Speaker 2>do a computer. But you can't learn the hard way.

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<v Speaker 2>I've lost like maybe three phones in one laptop in

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<v Speaker 2>the bathtub, dropped done, but you're alive. I'm here, Apple.

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<v Speaker 2>That's the one thing that really got going is like

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<v Speaker 2>if you if it goes in, you're not going to

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<v Speaker 2>will survive.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, okay, it's a glowing endorsement.

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<v Speaker 2>Really, but I feel like my voice is kind of

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<v Speaker 2>starting to give Sophia Bush a little bit after our

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<v Speaker 2>night out.

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<v Speaker 1>After night I turned into a pumpkin. And I don't

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<v Speaker 1>know if it was the fact that I was wearing

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<v Speaker 1>the biggest heels I've ever worn in my life, where

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<v Speaker 1>if life has just been so intense, you know, in

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<v Speaker 1>the current horror times that I'm emotionally exhausted, But once

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<v Speaker 1>Chapel was done, it was like I ceased being plugged

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<v Speaker 1>into the battery and I just I shut down and

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<v Speaker 1>I had to.

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<v Speaker 2>Go to bit you left that I was going to say,

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<v Speaker 2>I didn't see you. But that was what was crazy

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<v Speaker 2>about then A whole new group of people because there

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<v Speaker 2>was the after party to the party, yes, and so

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<v Speaker 2>it was like a whole new but we had been

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<v Speaker 2>there for hours and hours and so that that was

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<v Speaker 2>a lot in a good way. It was a lot

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<v Speaker 2>and we're at the same table. We had some really

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<v Speaker 2>cute people with us, cute unter twohand so adorable mckayl

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<v Speaker 2>the Jay Rodriguez. Absolutely, Oh, I love seeing her. It's

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<v Speaker 2>always so fun to see Bobby. Oh my god.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, and you were you with who's your coworker that

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<v Speaker 1>you are?

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<v Speaker 2>That was my manager, manager. Yes, he's so cute and such.

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<v Speaker 2>He's like my best friend and manager.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, he's so lovely. And then Ashland and I were there,

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<v Speaker 1>and Renee, our sweet friend, Renee Stubbs came with us,

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<v Speaker 1>and yeah, it was just a great night. We had

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<v Speaker 1>a nice crew.

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<v Speaker 2>You know. What did bother me was that I didn't

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<v Speaker 2>feel like people were lively enough for Chapel Rome. I

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<v Speaker 2>didn't see enough dancing like people were in it. But

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<v Speaker 2>I'm used to like thrusting my body for that h

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<v Speaker 2>O T T O G. There wasn't a ton of

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<v Speaker 2>room too.

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<v Speaker 1>There wasn't a lot of room every I felt like

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<v Speaker 1>we were doing very tiny.

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<v Speaker 2>It was yeah, but I will say it felt like

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<v Speaker 2>watching queer history like while them singing together. It was incredible, unreal.

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<v Speaker 2>And I was standing next to her dad for a

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<v Speaker 2>while and it was like watching him kind of like

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<v Speaker 2>take it in was really sweet. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>We talked a lot about it on Money Day after,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, we were all kind of recapping the night

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<v Speaker 1>and watching the way Elton looked at her and watching

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<v Speaker 1>the way she was looking at Elton. It felt, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>like such a such a historic moment across these generations

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<v Speaker 1>of queerness and activism and advocacy, and I don't know,

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<v Speaker 1>it made me really emotional.

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<v Speaker 2>It was the that was where the gays were, like

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<v Speaker 2>we were in that room. And I saw Chapel in

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<v Speaker 2>twenty twenty three at the Wiltern in LA and the

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<v Speaker 2>only thing that I could compare it to was that

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<v Speaker 2>that scene in Rocketman where like everyone's in the doing

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<v Speaker 2>the crocodile rock and everyone starts to float off the

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<v Speaker 2>you know, like off their feet into the air. And

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<v Speaker 2>that is how I felt at this concert of like,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, maybe like nine hundred people watching Chapel and

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<v Speaker 2>then now seeing her do that like it it kind

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<v Speaker 2>of had that like she's now like my Elton John

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<v Speaker 2>for so many people who have grew up with Elton John,

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<v Speaker 2>and I just thought, oh that was fun. I had

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<v Speaker 2>a good time too.

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<v Speaker 1>Did you like the party?

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<v Speaker 2>I liked the party, I got to see lots of friends,

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<v Speaker 2>and but I went to a West Hollywood gay bar afterwards,

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<v Speaker 2>which is it's a rare occasion that I do that.

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<v Speaker 1>But you did it.

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<v Speaker 2>I was in Taco Bell at the end of the night.

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<v Speaker 2>Did you order food?

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<v Speaker 1>I was honestly so tired that I didn't even order

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<v Speaker 1>late night tacos, which is rare for me.

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<v Speaker 2>Where would you order from?

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<v Speaker 1>Oh my god? So there's so many good places in

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<v Speaker 1>La There's we have Tacos nineteen eighty six. We have Weisawtos.

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<v Speaker 1>We have Cactus, which is really my.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know any og. I just get Taco Bell.

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<v Speaker 2>Isn't that so sad? Oh?

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<v Speaker 1>I have to take you?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you're going to say this.

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<v Speaker 1>We have a tour.

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<v Speaker 2>We have a tour and now we have a little time.

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<v Speaker 2>There's Taco Do's events now. Yes, And I think that

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<v Speaker 2>yesterday was it was a bad hangover day for me.

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<v Speaker 2>Today I feel alive. I feel like I want to

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<v Speaker 2>be a little more selective about not going to too

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<v Speaker 2>much stuff. Yeah, where did I saw you again? On?

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<v Speaker 2>What was the other thing that I saw? I can't Oh?

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<v Speaker 2>Women of the Year? Yeah time, Oh my god? And

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<v Speaker 2>that one was uh Levey or you know the singer

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<v Speaker 2>the uh Yes.

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<v Speaker 1>She was wonderful.

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<v Speaker 2>He did that song keep on Going with Your Crazy Dreams,

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<v Speaker 2>like to your it was like to your twelve year

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<v Speaker 2>old self, I think, And I was like, I don't

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<v Speaker 2>think my twelve year old self would have ever imagined

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<v Speaker 2>being at this like Women of the Year for Time

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<v Speaker 2>gala with like all these icons. Like I was like

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<v Speaker 2>kept flashing because I felt really tired, and I was like,

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<v Speaker 2>oh do I want to go to this? And I

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<v Speaker 2>looked around and was like, Oh my god, how lucky

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<v Speaker 2>am I to be in this room with all these gals.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it was so special. It's really cool, And I

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<v Speaker 1>want I think about that for you and what an

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<v Speaker 1>amazing sort of connection to that song, because you know,

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<v Speaker 1>we talked about this a little bit last time you

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<v Speaker 1>came on the bus.

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<v Speaker 2>It was basically a year ago. Yeah, I feel like

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<v Speaker 2>I'm part of the pod family.

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<v Speaker 1>Now are and I love it. But I you know,

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<v Speaker 1>I always think about how you would interact with your

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<v Speaker 1>younger self. And one of the things that I think

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<v Speaker 1>is so beautiful in the book is that you actually

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<v Speaker 1>dedicated it to your oldest best friend Lily Hi Lily,

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<v Speaker 1>and I loved watching you tell her that the book

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<v Speaker 1>is dedicated to her. You know, you wrote the girl

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<v Speaker 1>who helped show me the way. What what does it

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<v Speaker 1>feel like now to sort of look back at your

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<v Speaker 1>younger self, you know, the girl that Leve is saying

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<v Speaker 1>to the girl that you grew up with, and Lily

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<v Speaker 1>a girl that she always recognized in you, even perhaps

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<v Speaker 1>before you did. It must be so surreal from this

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<v Speaker 1>place to look back at it.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I think that so little of like what's happening

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<v Speaker 2>right now feels like normal, And it still feels like

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<v Speaker 2>I'm either living in a dreamer or a nightmare. And

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<v Speaker 2>Lily is like the one constant that like when I'm

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<v Speaker 2>around her, it reminds me of what life looked like before,

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<v Speaker 2>not only transition, but like this industry and in this town,

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<v Speaker 2>and having her here with me, going to these events,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, being my plus one is like it's a dream.

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<v Speaker 2>We met when we were ten doing high school musical.

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<v Speaker 2>She was in the basketball ensemble. I was Ryan, and

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<v Speaker 2>she was pissed that she wasn't Sharpey. But I think

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<v Speaker 2>that like having that person that has known you longer

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<v Speaker 2>than you know anyone, and has loved you through all

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<v Speaker 2>the different chapters. I think it feels really good because

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<v Speaker 2>I feel like I'm still constantly meeting people trying to

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<v Speaker 2>like either you know, convince them of what it is

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<v Speaker 2>that I want to do or who I am or

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<v Speaker 2>what my identity should look like for them, because it's

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<v Speaker 2>the way that I see myself. But for her, I

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<v Speaker 2>don't have there's no explanation necessary. Who is your lily

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<v Speaker 2>like from back in the day.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh my gosh, I moved a lot as a kid,

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<v Speaker 1>and so I we don't have so many people who

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<v Speaker 1>stretch like way way wait, probably I don't really have

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<v Speaker 1>anybody before middle school. And there's four of us from

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<v Speaker 1>my middle school in high school that are still really close.

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<v Speaker 1>But my like my my Lily is my best friend. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, we've been at it for almost twenty years together.

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<v Speaker 2>And where'd you meet?

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<v Speaker 1>We met at a conference way back in the day

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<v Speaker 1>before they were cool or like branded, you.

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<v Speaker 2>Know, a conference queen. So yeah, bush, Well, that is

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<v Speaker 2>one thing I will say I was thinking about when

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<v Speaker 2>because you know, we talked about going to Paris together

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<v Speaker 2>last year and oh was that even maybe was that

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<v Speaker 2>before we did the podcast? Or I think it was alf.

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<v Speaker 2>I think it was after we had a really fun

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<v Speaker 2>trip to Paris for a conference and a lovely man

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<v Speaker 2>that worked at CIA was there and he's like, you

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<v Speaker 2>know who always will show up, you know when you

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<v Speaker 2>ask her and when you need her for something is

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<v Speaker 2>Sophia Bush. And so like you've been doing in this

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<v Speaker 2>for a long time and the best way, and like Sowet,

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<v Speaker 2>you really are someone that people trust and also that

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<v Speaker 2>like you come through for people in really big ways.

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<v Speaker 1>I think showing up is really important. Ye, And it's

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<v Speaker 1>certainly a love language for me. I know how meaningful

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<v Speaker 1>it is when people do it for me. And I

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<v Speaker 1>think you know the way Nia and I bonded and

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<v Speaker 1>built our friendship, you know, out of that space, she

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<v Speaker 1>cracked a joke like why is the girl from TV

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<v Speaker 1>or taking notes like a court stenographer?

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<v Speaker 2>Right?

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<v Speaker 1>And I looked back at her and I said, I

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<v Speaker 1>went to journalisms called my notes are very good? Do

0:11:36.640 --> 0:11:38.880
<v Speaker 1>you need a copy? And she was like yeah. And

0:11:38.920 --> 0:11:43.080
<v Speaker 1>then we've been best friends ever since. And I think

0:11:43.120 --> 0:11:47.440
<v Speaker 1>for us, we've always been really mission aligned. And it's

0:11:47.480 --> 0:11:52.680
<v Speaker 1>weird to me when when mission isn't part of you know,

0:11:52.760 --> 0:11:56.480
<v Speaker 1>someone's life or their their ethos, and I think it's

0:11:56.520 --> 0:12:00.720
<v Speaker 1>probably why so many of us find each other, because yes,

0:12:00.840 --> 0:12:03.319
<v Speaker 1>you want to be creative and tell stories and have joy,

0:12:03.360 --> 0:12:06.040
<v Speaker 1>and you also want to make the world around you

0:12:06.040 --> 0:12:07.080
<v Speaker 1>a little kinder.

0:12:06.880 --> 0:12:09.040
<v Speaker 2>And we want to have a reason. Like even it

0:12:09.120 --> 0:12:12.480
<v Speaker 2>drives me crazy if I'm doing like a photo shoot

0:12:12.480 --> 0:12:15.400
<v Speaker 2>and I don't understand, like who is this for? What

0:12:15.559 --> 0:12:17.080
<v Speaker 2>is that? You know, it might just be a picture

0:12:17.160 --> 0:12:19.240
<v Speaker 2>and I might look pretty, but like is there what

0:12:19.360 --> 0:12:23.200
<v Speaker 2>else is here to like go off of? And no

0:12:23.240 --> 0:12:25.559
<v Speaker 2>matter what it is, I think I want to figure

0:12:25.559 --> 0:12:28.400
<v Speaker 2>out what is the reason behind something? And why am

0:12:28.400 --> 0:12:30.960
<v Speaker 2>I doing it? Why am I writing this book? Why

0:12:31.000 --> 0:12:34.200
<v Speaker 2>did you make this podcast? Why? Like there has to

0:12:34.240 --> 0:12:39.160
<v Speaker 2>be something other than the surface behind it. Even if

0:12:39.160 --> 0:12:41.360
<v Speaker 2>it is just to like bring a little joy or

0:12:41.400 --> 0:12:44.520
<v Speaker 2>to make someone laugh like that that can be enough

0:12:45.280 --> 0:12:46.160
<v Speaker 2>in some cases.

0:12:46.280 --> 0:12:48.960
<v Speaker 1>But why did you want to write the book?

0:12:49.880 --> 0:12:52.240
<v Speaker 2>I wanted to write the book. I think at first

0:12:53.600 --> 0:12:56.120
<v Speaker 2>this book has become a lot of different things because

0:12:56.240 --> 0:13:01.440
<v Speaker 2>I sold it really early on around days of Girlhood,

0:13:01.440 --> 0:13:03.640
<v Speaker 2>and I thought I was gonna be this fluffy little

0:13:03.679 --> 0:13:06.400
<v Speaker 2>piece of you know, fun for people to have on

0:13:06.440 --> 0:13:09.440
<v Speaker 2>their coffee table about you know, diary entries for my

0:13:09.480 --> 0:13:12.520
<v Speaker 2>first year, and I grew up reading like Chelsea Handler

0:13:12.559 --> 0:13:17.120
<v Speaker 2>and all these really fun, you know, female comedian books.

0:13:17.120 --> 0:13:18.760
<v Speaker 2>So I wanted to make people laugh and I wanted

0:13:18.800 --> 0:13:22.200
<v Speaker 2>to be a little raunchy. And then once beer Gate happened,

0:13:22.960 --> 0:13:26.360
<v Speaker 2>I knew that it needed to be something very different,

0:13:26.480 --> 0:13:30.480
<v Speaker 2>and so it ended up being this thing that was

0:13:30.559 --> 0:13:35.200
<v Speaker 2>deeply healing for me and I because I still in

0:13:35.200 --> 0:13:38.360
<v Speaker 2>some ways had this like bowling ball sitting on my chest,

0:13:38.559 --> 0:13:42.920
<v Speaker 2>not being able to articulate what happened or how I

0:13:42.960 --> 0:13:45.160
<v Speaker 2>felt about it, and I wanted people to know because

0:13:45.160 --> 0:13:49.440
<v Speaker 2>I built my platform on telling people things, and I

0:13:49.480 --> 0:13:53.320
<v Speaker 2>think this feels like a much safer medium than social

0:13:53.320 --> 0:13:56.400
<v Speaker 2>media does right now for me, And I think it's

0:13:56.600 --> 0:13:59.400
<v Speaker 2>it's something that I never thought I would get to

0:13:59.400 --> 0:14:02.480
<v Speaker 2>write a book and my life. So it's, i think,

0:14:02.600 --> 0:14:05.120
<v Speaker 2>probably the thing I'm most proud of now and I'm

0:14:05.160 --> 0:14:08.280
<v Speaker 2>scared because I love it and I don't know yet

0:14:08.320 --> 0:14:10.920
<v Speaker 2>how the world is going to interpret that. But would

0:14:10.920 --> 0:14:11.720
<v Speaker 2>you ever write a book?

0:14:12.200 --> 0:14:15.800
<v Speaker 1>I've been dodging the question for about eight years.

0:14:15.520 --> 0:14:17.600
<v Speaker 2>And now you can't because you're holding my hand.

0:14:17.840 --> 0:14:23.200
<v Speaker 1>Here we are. Yeah, people have approached me a few

0:14:23.240 --> 0:14:29.040
<v Speaker 1>times about it, and I think I'm finally in a

0:14:29.120 --> 0:14:35.920
<v Speaker 1>place where I'm ready to think about that. I think

0:14:35.920 --> 0:14:41.160
<v Speaker 1>there was a time where it felt when my team

0:14:41.200 --> 0:14:44.560
<v Speaker 1>first came to me with the idea. At first it

0:14:44.600 --> 0:14:49.360
<v Speaker 1>felt a little premature, And now I think I understand

0:14:49.440 --> 0:14:52.640
<v Speaker 1>that feeling better because I understand so many things about

0:14:52.680 --> 0:14:57.440
<v Speaker 1>myself better. But it's terrifying to.

0:14:57.400 --> 0:14:59.320
<v Speaker 2>Think about it. I think if you just don't frame

0:14:59.360 --> 0:15:01.800
<v Speaker 2>it as like a memoir, like I always think.

0:15:01.680 --> 0:15:03.920
<v Speaker 1>Of, like, yeah, come on, like, we're not eighty right,

0:15:04.240 --> 0:15:05.760
<v Speaker 1>I can't, I write, we can't.

0:15:06.320 --> 0:15:10.080
<v Speaker 2>And that's what I really because some people still classify

0:15:10.080 --> 0:15:13.160
<v Speaker 2>this like as a memoir. So I'm so scared to

0:15:13.160 --> 0:15:16.560
<v Speaker 2>say memoir, Like is that because I feel like I'm

0:15:16.560 --> 0:15:19.920
<v Speaker 2>from like Wisconsin and I'm talking about this book that

0:15:20.000 --> 0:15:23.360
<v Speaker 2>I wrote called Them, and it's not a memoir. It's

0:15:23.400 --> 0:15:26.360
<v Speaker 2>like it's a hard word to say. Can you say memoir? Memoir?

0:15:26.560 --> 0:15:27.000
<v Speaker 1>Memoir?

0:15:27.080 --> 0:15:28.480
<v Speaker 2>Okay, Okay, we're settling on it.

0:15:28.480 --> 0:15:31.200
<v Speaker 1>It helps if you if you memo, yeah, if you

0:15:31.240 --> 0:15:33.320
<v Speaker 1>try to sound a little bit like the like a

0:15:33.320 --> 0:15:37.200
<v Speaker 1>phone sex operator memoir memoir me, it comes out easier.

0:15:37.320 --> 0:15:38.680
<v Speaker 2>Right. Oh my god, that's a beautiful bag is that

0:15:38.760 --> 0:15:39.120
<v Speaker 2>your purse.

0:15:39.200 --> 0:15:39.600
<v Speaker 1>It is.

0:15:41.840 --> 0:15:44.720
<v Speaker 2>Love it and it will fit a memoir into Babies.

0:15:44.280 --> 0:15:47.640
<v Speaker 1>With Adhd sat together for a podcast.

0:15:47.240 --> 0:15:50.120
<v Speaker 2>So I I like that. I call it my like

0:15:50.480 --> 0:15:55.160
<v Speaker 2>quarter life crisis book, and I think because it's very

0:15:56.200 --> 0:15:58.800
<v Speaker 2>specific in the timeline, it's about my transition, it's about

0:15:58.840 --> 0:16:01.480
<v Speaker 2>after beer Gate. We do have some essays that flash

0:16:01.600 --> 0:16:04.200
<v Speaker 2>back to, you know, my childhood, but not in a

0:16:04.240 --> 0:16:08.080
<v Speaker 2>way that feels like this is everything that I have

0:16:08.120 --> 0:16:11.920
<v Speaker 2>to offer from age zero to twenty six and and

0:16:12.040 --> 0:16:14.800
<v Speaker 2>that's all, you know, that could never revisit any of

0:16:14.800 --> 0:16:18.560
<v Speaker 2>these topics. I wanted it to feel like Chelsea Handler

0:16:18.760 --> 0:16:22.480
<v Speaker 2>did a lot of kind of essays early on that

0:16:22.920 --> 0:16:26.280
<v Speaker 2>I really like loved reading as a teenager because it

0:16:26.360 --> 0:16:29.880
<v Speaker 2>felt like I didn't know that we were allowed to

0:16:30.000 --> 0:16:33.560
<v Speaker 2>comment on our lives, you know. And it kind of

0:16:33.640 --> 0:16:35.640
<v Speaker 2>also kind of carry Bradshaw in the way that like

0:16:36.040 --> 0:16:38.960
<v Speaker 2>she was writing about things so messily and I haven't

0:16:38.960 --> 0:16:42.440
<v Speaker 2>gotten to talk a lot about like sex or religion

0:16:42.640 --> 0:16:46.080
<v Speaker 2>or things you know online. That felt a lot more

0:16:46.080 --> 0:16:47.240
<v Speaker 2>fun to put into a book.

0:16:47.400 --> 0:16:50.760
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Yeah, And now a word from our sponsors who

0:16:50.840 --> 0:17:04.320
<v Speaker 1>make this show possible. And I do think it's really

0:17:06.119 --> 0:17:09.800
<v Speaker 1>important I like the references you make. I love Chelsea's books.

0:17:10.359 --> 0:17:12.600
<v Speaker 1>And to your point, one of the things I think

0:17:13.160 --> 0:17:17.200
<v Speaker 1>we need more of is a little bit of permission

0:17:17.280 --> 0:17:17.959
<v Speaker 1>to be messy.

0:17:18.760 --> 0:17:22.639
<v Speaker 2>Humans are messy my house right now. Oh it's a state.

0:17:22.680 --> 0:17:25.919
<v Speaker 2>I also like, I'm one of those people that like

0:17:26.000 --> 0:17:29.000
<v Speaker 2>I will like have If I'm like, I clean my

0:17:29.119 --> 0:17:32.359
<v Speaker 2>entire place. It looks amazing for about fifteen minutes, and

0:17:32.400 --> 0:17:36.360
<v Speaker 2>then something happens and I don't know what it is,

0:17:36.400 --> 0:17:39.280
<v Speaker 2>but it then looks almost worse than it did before

0:17:39.280 --> 0:17:44.120
<v Speaker 2>I cleaned it. So that's I think like. And I've

0:17:44.160 --> 0:17:46.440
<v Speaker 2>seen a few the reviews are starting to roll out,

0:17:47.200 --> 0:17:49.159
<v Speaker 2>and some of them are like, oh that you you know,

0:17:49.200 --> 0:17:51.800
<v Speaker 2>it can be trickier to find the timeline or it

0:17:51.840 --> 0:17:54.320
<v Speaker 2>can you know what are we in a journal entry

0:17:54.400 --> 0:17:55.920
<v Speaker 2>or are we in an essay? And there's a little

0:17:55.960 --> 0:17:58.440
<v Speaker 2>bit of that. But I kind of love that it's

0:17:58.480 --> 0:18:01.760
<v Speaker 2>not about the life linear nature, but rather like what

0:18:01.880 --> 0:18:06.760
<v Speaker 2>I'm learning and how I learned it versus when. But God,

0:18:06.840 --> 0:18:10.359
<v Speaker 2>I feel like life sometimes only does your life right

0:18:10.400 --> 0:18:13.080
<v Speaker 2>now feel like it's getting messier or you're cleaning it up?

0:18:14.640 --> 0:18:16.960
<v Speaker 1>Oh I think I started a big glean up a

0:18:17.000 --> 0:18:25.600
<v Speaker 1>couple of years ago. My life feels very full and

0:18:25.640 --> 0:18:29.679
<v Speaker 1>I am incredibly grateful for that, and I would like

0:18:29.760 --> 0:18:33.879
<v Speaker 1>to have a little more space, and so I'm trying

0:18:33.920 --> 0:18:38.359
<v Speaker 1>to kind of recalibrate certain things. Yeah, because I actually

0:18:38.400 --> 0:18:40.320
<v Speaker 1>really like my life and I want to be present

0:18:40.359 --> 0:18:43.920
<v Speaker 1>for more of it. Yes, and that feels special.

0:18:44.880 --> 0:18:48.200
<v Speaker 2>I feel the same. I feel like this has been

0:18:48.200 --> 0:18:50.720
<v Speaker 2>a really interesting time. I've taken on a bit too much.

0:18:50.720 --> 0:18:53.199
<v Speaker 2>I've learned, and so I'm going to get through that

0:18:53.359 --> 0:18:56.119
<v Speaker 2>and then try to clean shop in other ways. But

0:18:56.280 --> 0:18:58.560
<v Speaker 2>I think my biggest thing is I like to show

0:18:58.600 --> 0:19:01.200
<v Speaker 2>up one hundred percent for whatever it is that I'm doing,

0:19:01.440 --> 0:19:05.840
<v Speaker 2>whether that's an interview or a you know, a performance

0:19:05.920 --> 0:19:08.159
<v Speaker 2>like I want, like I did the Edinburgh Fringe Festival

0:19:08.240 --> 0:19:11.760
<v Speaker 2>last year, and I during that time, you know, I

0:19:11.760 --> 0:19:14.919
<v Speaker 2>had all these other things that needed attention or my

0:19:15.000 --> 0:19:18.040
<v Speaker 2>eyes on and I basically was like, No, all I

0:19:18.040 --> 0:19:20.200
<v Speaker 2>want to do right now is work on this show.

0:19:20.320 --> 0:19:23.119
<v Speaker 2>And I would be so disappointed in myself if I

0:19:23.160 --> 0:19:25.639
<v Speaker 2>don't give it my all and be like, oh, well,

0:19:25.640 --> 0:19:27.720
<v Speaker 2>I was trying to do a thousand other things. So

0:19:27.840 --> 0:19:29.920
<v Speaker 2>that is the part that scares me of like being

0:19:29.920 --> 0:19:32.400
<v Speaker 2>a multi hyphen it and then being like, what that

0:19:32.440 --> 0:19:35.440
<v Speaker 2>actually means of being able to put your attention to

0:19:35.920 --> 0:19:37.480
<v Speaker 2>different things at the same time.

0:19:38.160 --> 0:19:40.720
<v Speaker 1>I feel that as well, because I wonder if I

0:19:40.800 --> 0:19:43.640
<v Speaker 1>just did one thing at a time, would I maybe

0:19:43.680 --> 0:19:46.320
<v Speaker 1>accomplish more at the end. But also I have to

0:19:47.119 --> 0:19:49.359
<v Speaker 1>I realize I have to be gentle with myself and

0:19:49.520 --> 0:19:51.760
<v Speaker 1>also trust myself. I am curious about a.

0:19:51.800 --> 0:19:53.840
<v Speaker 2>Lot I know on our ADHD wants us to be

0:19:53.880 --> 0:19:55.640
<v Speaker 2>doing a lot at the same time.

0:19:56.000 --> 0:20:00.679
<v Speaker 1>How did you actually start down the path of comedy

0:20:00.720 --> 0:20:03.880
<v Speaker 1>and writing and the fringe festival? Like, oh, now you've

0:20:03.920 --> 0:20:10.119
<v Speaker 1>written a book. You create so much, and I want

0:20:10.160 --> 0:20:10.520
<v Speaker 1>to know.

0:20:10.480 --> 0:20:15.240
<v Speaker 2>How, because I don't think anyone else is letting me

0:20:15.320 --> 0:20:20.080
<v Speaker 2>do that, Like, no, I'm not someone that's being particularly

0:20:20.119 --> 0:20:23.560
<v Speaker 2>like tapped on for a thousand different stories to tell.

0:20:24.000 --> 0:20:26.119
<v Speaker 2>And so I think right now the best option is

0:20:26.160 --> 0:20:31.200
<v Speaker 2>to tell my own, because I'm such an active member

0:20:31.359 --> 0:20:34.800
<v Speaker 2>of my life and wanting to be in this industry

0:20:34.880 --> 0:20:37.080
<v Speaker 2>knowing that these are some going to be some of

0:20:37.080 --> 0:20:40.040
<v Speaker 2>the really integral years to what the rest of it

0:20:40.080 --> 0:20:43.040
<v Speaker 2>looks like, and so I don't want to sit at

0:20:43.080 --> 0:20:45.720
<v Speaker 2>home waiting for you know, I would love to just

0:20:45.760 --> 0:20:48.000
<v Speaker 2>be an actress, and I would love to just wait

0:20:48.040 --> 0:20:50.159
<v Speaker 2>for the auditions to come in and for the parts

0:20:50.200 --> 0:20:53.680
<v Speaker 2>to play. Right now, that's you know, limited for trans women,

0:20:53.840 --> 0:20:58.000
<v Speaker 2>especially me, who I think is you know, shares quite publicly,

0:20:58.560 --> 0:21:01.720
<v Speaker 2>so I'm always trying to carve out other ways of

0:21:02.119 --> 0:21:05.000
<v Speaker 2>filling time. And then I think what's fun is when

0:21:05.280 --> 0:21:10.280
<v Speaker 2>somebody does approach me with an idea or an opportunity,

0:21:10.840 --> 0:21:13.760
<v Speaker 2>I can fit it in amongst what I've already created.

0:21:13.800 --> 0:21:16.960
<v Speaker 2>But I'm not waiting for anyone else, And I think

0:21:17.000 --> 0:21:19.840
<v Speaker 2>there is something frustrating and can be exhausting of like

0:21:20.800 --> 0:21:26.359
<v Speaker 2>always trying to manufacture and trying to tell, you know,

0:21:26.400 --> 0:21:29.960
<v Speaker 2>a story or get something off the ground. But I'm

0:21:30.080 --> 0:21:34.400
<v Speaker 2>proud that that I'm I feel quite I'm usually quite

0:21:34.480 --> 0:21:38.040
<v Speaker 2>sub in certain situations, but I feel very dumb when

0:21:38.040 --> 0:21:43.920
<v Speaker 2>it comes to my career and my trajectory in my creativity.

0:21:44.080 --> 0:21:48.160
<v Speaker 2>Like I think I'm really after finding my gender identity.

0:21:48.280 --> 0:21:51.520
<v Speaker 2>I was like, oh, this is what being an artist

0:21:51.520 --> 0:21:56.520
<v Speaker 2>can be now that I've like figured some things out

0:21:56.520 --> 0:22:03.399
<v Speaker 2>within myself. And I think maybe had things come a

0:22:03.400 --> 0:22:06.080
<v Speaker 2>little easier as far as like I, you know, was

0:22:06.080 --> 0:22:08.600
<v Speaker 2>on Broadway right now doing eight shows a week. I

0:22:08.640 --> 0:22:11.800
<v Speaker 2>probably wouldn't have written this book, and I probably wouldn't have,

0:22:12.040 --> 0:22:15.040
<v Speaker 2>you know, started my podcast or any of these things

0:22:15.080 --> 0:22:19.600
<v Speaker 2>that I think I need, we need right now. And

0:22:19.840 --> 0:22:23.359
<v Speaker 2>I do think transjoy can look a lot of different ways,

0:22:24.320 --> 0:22:28.679
<v Speaker 2>but this book is probably the loudest version of it

0:22:28.720 --> 0:22:29.879
<v Speaker 2>for me in this moment.

0:22:30.080 --> 0:22:33.520
<v Speaker 1>I love that for you. Yeah, And what it strikes

0:22:33.560 --> 0:22:37.680
<v Speaker 1>me as when you talk about sort of taking control,

0:22:37.760 --> 0:22:42.400
<v Speaker 1>it's it's agency. You are taking agency of your creativity.

0:22:42.560 --> 0:22:45.960
<v Speaker 1>You are you are making the things that you want

0:22:46.000 --> 0:22:50.000
<v Speaker 1>and need that your younger self probably needed too. And

0:22:50.560 --> 0:22:53.160
<v Speaker 1>I loved something that you said. Rolling Stone just did

0:22:53.440 --> 0:22:58.119
<v Speaker 1>a great profile on you on the book, and it

0:22:58.200 --> 0:23:00.359
<v Speaker 1>was such a sweet way to clap back at people

0:23:00.400 --> 0:23:04.960
<v Speaker 1>who are so upset by transjoy. You said, I'm not

0:23:04.960 --> 0:23:07.160
<v Speaker 1>trying to influence anyone to do anything other than see

0:23:07.200 --> 0:23:08.000
<v Speaker 1>a Broadway musical.

0:23:08.080 --> 0:23:12.520
<v Speaker 2>Period. Well that's not like, that's it, that's my transagenda. Yeah,

0:23:12.920 --> 0:23:15.280
<v Speaker 2>and hopefully that broad musical would have a transperson in it.

0:23:15.240 --> 0:23:16.760
<v Speaker 1>But would be wonderful it should be you.

0:23:16.960 --> 0:23:19.679
<v Speaker 2>But at the very least, go see fucking cats, you know,

0:23:19.800 --> 0:23:27.000
<v Speaker 2>Like I'm I just think that people are so easy

0:23:27.080 --> 0:23:31.160
<v Speaker 2>to project identities and activism and all these things onto

0:23:31.200 --> 0:23:34.560
<v Speaker 2>you when if you really listen to what the person

0:23:34.640 --> 0:23:37.080
<v Speaker 2>is trying to say or you know, what I've also

0:23:37.119 --> 0:23:39.560
<v Speaker 2>think is crazy as I've done interviews where I'm like,

0:23:39.640 --> 0:23:41.560
<v Speaker 2>I am not an activist, and then they title the

0:23:41.600 --> 0:23:46.520
<v Speaker 2>interview activist Dylan mulvany, and so it is really crazy

0:23:46.600 --> 0:23:50.800
<v Speaker 2>how sometimes loud and clear and articulate you have to

0:23:50.840 --> 0:23:54.239
<v Speaker 2>be in order to get people to figure out what

0:23:54.280 --> 0:23:55.000
<v Speaker 2>it is you want.

0:23:55.640 --> 0:23:57.440
<v Speaker 1>So what would you say you want?

0:23:58.080 --> 0:24:01.320
<v Speaker 2>I would like to be a Broadway diva who gets

0:24:01.400 --> 0:24:07.520
<v Speaker 2>to tell stories, sometimes my own, sometimes fictional. I want

0:24:07.560 --> 0:24:10.959
<v Speaker 2>to make people laugh, especially at some of the dark things,

0:24:11.000 --> 0:24:15.720
<v Speaker 2>like through transness and identity. I would love to make

0:24:15.760 --> 0:24:18.359
<v Speaker 2>people think. I think that's something that's newer on like

0:24:18.840 --> 0:24:22.080
<v Speaker 2>my list of desires, because for a long time I

0:24:22.520 --> 0:24:25.560
<v Speaker 2>didn't know that I could be vulnerable, like publicly. That

0:24:25.640 --> 0:24:28.439
<v Speaker 2>was kind of against the laws of my family, you know,

0:24:28.680 --> 0:24:30.879
<v Speaker 2>we were supposed to keep those things to ourselves. But

0:24:31.040 --> 0:24:36.520
<v Speaker 2>now I love it and I think that I I

0:24:36.520 --> 0:24:39.280
<v Speaker 2>would love to find love in the hard places and

0:24:39.560 --> 0:24:42.080
<v Speaker 2>help other people figure that out too. But in a

0:24:42.119 --> 0:24:45.640
<v Speaker 2>lot of those things, you know, could be as stupid

0:24:45.680 --> 0:24:48.520
<v Speaker 2>as in a sketch or in you know, a musical

0:24:48.600 --> 0:24:52.280
<v Speaker 2>or what they don't have to all be in you know,

0:24:52.520 --> 0:24:55.680
<v Speaker 2>at conferences or you know, speaking at the White House

0:24:55.760 --> 0:24:59.320
<v Speaker 2>or what, you know, whatever it is that that some

0:24:59.359 --> 0:25:02.000
<v Speaker 2>people also might assume that means.

0:25:02.400 --> 0:25:06.160
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I think when you stand up for people, stand

0:25:06.240 --> 0:25:08.600
<v Speaker 1>up for yourself, stand up for others, you can kind

0:25:08.640 --> 0:25:11.199
<v Speaker 1>of get cast as a very serious person.

0:25:12.080 --> 0:25:12.439
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:25:12.680 --> 0:25:14.920
<v Speaker 1>So many people think I'm so serious, and then people

0:25:14.920 --> 0:25:16.440
<v Speaker 1>hang out with me and they're like, oh, you're weird

0:25:16.480 --> 0:25:18.080
<v Speaker 1>and really quirky and funny.

0:25:17.800 --> 0:25:19.880
<v Speaker 2>Right, we know how to have a good time. Yeah.

0:25:19.920 --> 0:25:21.760
<v Speaker 2>I actually will say though, some of the most serious

0:25:21.760 --> 0:25:24.840
<v Speaker 2>people are the ones that like to have the most fun.

0:25:25.000 --> 0:25:29.399
<v Speaker 2>But then people expect that of potentially us. We're in

0:25:29.440 --> 0:25:32.720
<v Speaker 2>a way that I don't think is always fair. I think, like,

0:25:33.680 --> 0:25:37.800
<v Speaker 2>I love letting loose with people, and I think people

0:25:37.840 --> 0:25:41.680
<v Speaker 2>can tell that from social media. But I also I'm

0:25:41.720 --> 0:25:46.040
<v Speaker 2>definitely not the trans girl that is ready to like,

0:25:46.600 --> 0:25:50.080
<v Speaker 2>you know, give you every single statistic and talk about

0:25:50.119 --> 0:25:53.960
<v Speaker 2>every single you know bill or you know, anti trans

0:25:54.000 --> 0:25:57.760
<v Speaker 2>legislation in the works. And I feel guilty about that sometimes,

0:25:57.800 --> 0:25:59.800
<v Speaker 2>but then I realize I'm like, oh, but there's like

0:26:00.440 --> 0:26:03.040
<v Speaker 2>so many other dolls that are really good at that,

0:26:03.200 --> 0:26:05.680
<v Speaker 2>and I can do my best to figure out how

0:26:05.720 --> 0:26:09.080
<v Speaker 2>to connect them when those opportunities come my way or

0:26:09.200 --> 0:26:13.160
<v Speaker 2>you know, they've we have great conversations, like I'm going

0:26:13.160 --> 0:26:15.400
<v Speaker 2>on a bunch of talk shows next week and I've

0:26:15.400 --> 0:26:18.400
<v Speaker 2>talked to a bunch of dolls about you know, what,

0:26:18.400 --> 0:26:20.359
<v Speaker 2>what should I say? What do you think is important

0:26:20.359 --> 0:26:23.840
<v Speaker 2>for the community? You know, trying to stay really proactive

0:26:24.040 --> 0:26:26.919
<v Speaker 2>so that when those questions do come up, I'm ready,

0:26:27.720 --> 0:26:29.040
<v Speaker 2>but not leading with it.

0:26:29.440 --> 0:26:32.840
<v Speaker 1>Well, one thing I think is really important is that

0:26:32.840 --> 0:26:36.159
<v Speaker 1>that can't just fall on you, right, It can't just

0:26:36.240 --> 0:26:41.160
<v Speaker 1>be on trans women to advocate for trans women, since

0:26:41.200 --> 0:26:44.000
<v Speaker 1>women need to show up and advocate for you in

0:26:44.040 --> 0:26:47.640
<v Speaker 1>the same way that when we talk about gender based

0:26:47.680 --> 0:26:51.000
<v Speaker 1>violence around the world, that's actually that's a male problem,

0:26:51.359 --> 0:26:55.160
<v Speaker 1>that is a statistically male problem. If we scream into

0:26:55.200 --> 0:26:58.480
<v Speaker 1>the void about what women go through in the world

0:26:58.640 --> 0:27:01.359
<v Speaker 1>and men don't join us to say men should stop

0:27:01.359 --> 0:27:06.440
<v Speaker 1>assaulting women, right, we're in a vacuum. And so I

0:27:06.480 --> 0:27:09.240
<v Speaker 1>think I'm so glad you feel like you get to

0:27:09.280 --> 0:27:11.040
<v Speaker 1>be your full self, and I love that you have

0:27:11.080 --> 0:27:14.080
<v Speaker 1>a community that helps you figure out what you should

0:27:14.200 --> 0:27:18.000
<v Speaker 1>use those platforms to say in the moment, and I

0:27:18.080 --> 0:27:22.720
<v Speaker 1>want other folks to be reminded that we have to

0:27:22.880 --> 0:27:23.840
<v Speaker 1>show up for you too.

0:27:24.040 --> 0:27:27.880
<v Speaker 2>Yes, thank you. But it's also fascinating what's happening, I

0:27:27.920 --> 0:27:32.480
<v Speaker 2>think when it comes to allyship, because the you know,

0:27:32.600 --> 0:27:36.719
<v Speaker 2>far right extremists are getting really good at trying to

0:27:36.840 --> 0:27:40.520
<v Speaker 2>scare our allies away. And even this was an example

0:27:40.640 --> 0:27:43.040
<v Speaker 2>is getting my makeup done by a really lovely gay

0:27:43.080 --> 0:27:48.160
<v Speaker 2>man last week, and he was talking about this transvestigation

0:27:48.480 --> 0:27:52.200
<v Speaker 2>over this very famous woman that you know, all these

0:27:52.240 --> 0:27:55.480
<v Speaker 2>people are claiming is a trans woman and all the

0:27:55.520 --> 0:27:58.960
<v Speaker 2>reasons why they think she's trans, and I had to

0:27:59.000 --> 0:28:02.000
<v Speaker 2>explain to him that it was like deeply problematic because

0:28:02.840 --> 0:28:04.800
<v Speaker 2>you know, whether this person was trans or not, they

0:28:04.800 --> 0:28:09.439
<v Speaker 2>were trying to cast her as this like monster or

0:28:09.480 --> 0:28:14.560
<v Speaker 2>this person hiding you know, secrets or deceiving the public.

0:28:15.359 --> 0:28:18.960
<v Speaker 2>And and I had to explain that like what they

0:28:19.040 --> 0:28:21.959
<v Speaker 2>now want to do is make cis women believe that

0:28:22.040 --> 0:28:25.040
<v Speaker 2>like being called trans or you know, being accused of

0:28:25.400 --> 0:28:28.920
<v Speaker 2>being a trans person is like the worst, you know thing,

0:28:29.800 --> 0:28:32.159
<v Speaker 2>when in reality it's it's like most transgirls I know

0:28:32.200 --> 0:28:35.320
<v Speaker 2>are really cute and and they we've got our you know,

0:28:35.560 --> 0:28:37.639
<v Speaker 2>we've got we're working on it, we're getting it together.

0:28:38.080 --> 0:28:42.240
<v Speaker 2>But I find it very problematic that a lot of

0:28:42.320 --> 0:28:46.800
<v Speaker 2>allies don't always know what is transphobic, like like and

0:28:47.560 --> 0:28:50.280
<v Speaker 2>you know, we've got to figure out those conversations. But

0:28:51.440 --> 0:28:56.320
<v Speaker 2>if if it's pushing a notion that like transness is

0:28:58.000 --> 0:29:04.120
<v Speaker 2>evil or you know problematic, like, chances are it's probably transphobic. Yeah,

0:29:04.160 --> 0:29:08.920
<v Speaker 2>And and so it's it's interesting getting to still exist

0:29:09.160 --> 0:29:13.360
<v Speaker 2>in around so many icons, and especially these women that

0:29:13.440 --> 0:29:16.280
<v Speaker 2>I call friends and and that support me publicly like

0:29:16.280 --> 0:29:19.440
<v Speaker 2>I had Lady Gaga last year post on International Women's

0:29:19.520 --> 0:29:22.600
<v Speaker 2>Day or you know, standing up for me. And and

0:29:23.120 --> 0:29:26.160
<v Speaker 2>that's the kind of where I'm like, holy crap, like

0:29:26.680 --> 0:29:29.360
<v Speaker 2>there's there's still the good ones, and I'm here with

0:29:29.440 --> 0:29:33.640
<v Speaker 2>you right now. I think that it makes me sad

0:29:33.720 --> 0:29:37.840
<v Speaker 2>to think that certain people would be scared to you know, uh,

0:29:38.240 --> 0:29:41.280
<v Speaker 2>be seen with the trans person or to work with

0:29:41.400 --> 0:29:46.920
<v Speaker 2>us or hire us. But there's so much power in

0:29:47.120 --> 0:29:50.400
<v Speaker 2>saying no, I'm not going to live in that fear

0:29:51.480 --> 0:29:54.400
<v Speaker 2>or that you know people are going to boycott my

0:29:54.440 --> 0:29:59.200
<v Speaker 2>product or not watch this television show or unfollow because

0:29:59.440 --> 0:30:03.480
<v Speaker 2>you support you know a transperson. That's that is, it's

0:30:03.960 --> 0:30:06.280
<v Speaker 2>we can't give into that, We cannot give into that fear.

0:30:06.320 --> 0:30:07.840
<v Speaker 2>I'm so tired of being scared.

0:30:08.120 --> 0:30:20.640
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and now a word from our sponsors. One of

0:30:20.680 --> 0:30:23.120
<v Speaker 1>the things I think is really beautiful about the book

0:30:23.760 --> 0:30:27.520
<v Speaker 1>is you do claim so much joy, you do share

0:30:27.640 --> 0:30:30.680
<v Speaker 1>so much happiness with us, and you also aren't shying

0:30:30.720 --> 0:30:34.400
<v Speaker 1>away from the things that have been hard, and you

0:30:34.480 --> 0:30:39.120
<v Speaker 1>do talk about beer Gate, and you do really bring

0:30:39.200 --> 0:30:41.560
<v Speaker 1>us into what it feels like to be targeted by

0:30:42.760 --> 0:30:46.560
<v Speaker 1>these far right hate campaigns. But the thing that hit

0:30:46.680 --> 0:30:51.240
<v Speaker 1>me so hard actually is something you share in the

0:30:51.280 --> 0:30:54.520
<v Speaker 1>first thirty pages of the book, and you talk about

0:30:55.160 --> 0:30:59.960
<v Speaker 1>how so many external opinions. You know, you're one person

0:31:00.080 --> 0:31:03.960
<v Speaker 1>on the internet and millions of people can comment at you,

0:31:04.960 --> 0:31:09.200
<v Speaker 1>and talk about how so many external opinions can can

0:31:09.240 --> 0:31:13.080
<v Speaker 1>create so much noise, so much mental and emotional noise,

0:31:13.160 --> 0:31:17.920
<v Speaker 1>that your darkest thoughts, your self loathing, your critique that

0:31:18.000 --> 0:31:22.360
<v Speaker 1>all of us have inside of us, can suddenly be

0:31:22.600 --> 0:31:27.040
<v Speaker 1>parroting the worst of the comment section. Yes and how

0:31:27.920 --> 0:31:30.560
<v Speaker 1>And reading your words when you talked about it, like

0:31:30.840 --> 0:31:33.880
<v Speaker 1>took my breath away because I know exactly how that feels.

0:31:34.320 --> 0:31:37.800
<v Speaker 1>It honestly made me gasp, Like I heard myself gasp

0:31:37.880 --> 0:31:41.520
<v Speaker 1>when I read it, because I know how paralyzing that

0:31:41.560 --> 0:31:43.400
<v Speaker 1>feeling is, and.

0:31:44.280 --> 0:31:46.360
<v Speaker 2>How do you get I think, how do you identify it?

0:31:46.360 --> 0:31:48.040
<v Speaker 2>How do you get out that crazy is? When you can,

0:31:48.080 --> 0:31:52.560
<v Speaker 2>then when you have made enough progress to see that

0:31:52.680 --> 0:31:55.760
<v Speaker 2>you are, you're quite literally at a crossroads where you're like,

0:31:56.080 --> 0:31:58.920
<v Speaker 2>I'm either going to believe this what they're saying about myself,

0:31:58.960 --> 0:32:01.080
<v Speaker 2>and I'm going to take it on as part of me,

0:32:01.640 --> 0:32:06.400
<v Speaker 2>or I'm going to acknowledge that what they're saying is

0:32:06.440 --> 0:32:08.720
<v Speaker 2>not true about myself because I know who I am

0:32:09.200 --> 0:32:11.600
<v Speaker 2>and the people that I love know who I am,

0:32:11.920 --> 0:32:15.080
<v Speaker 2>and and let that be the course that you take.

0:32:15.160 --> 0:32:19.840
<v Speaker 2>And I actually, even just yesterday, even that we were

0:32:19.840 --> 0:32:22.320
<v Speaker 2>talking about the Elton John party, I was interviewing people

0:32:22.320 --> 0:32:26.560
<v Speaker 2>on the carpet and I was reading all these comments about, oh,

0:32:26.680 --> 0:32:29.120
<v Speaker 2>you know, this girl's so annoying, she's standing too close

0:32:29.160 --> 0:32:31.160
<v Speaker 2>to people, she won't let her you know, people get

0:32:31.200 --> 0:32:33.640
<v Speaker 2>a word, all these things, and I went I almost

0:32:33.720 --> 0:32:35.080
<v Speaker 2>was like, oh, I'm going to make a video now

0:32:35.120 --> 0:32:37.880
<v Speaker 2>being like, yeah, I'm annoying, I know it. And then

0:32:37.920 --> 0:32:40.600
<v Speaker 2>I was like oh my gosh, like it was like

0:32:40.840 --> 0:32:45.960
<v Speaker 2>a clear cut you just changed your opinion about yourself

0:32:46.800 --> 0:32:49.560
<v Speaker 2>based on these other people. And there were plenty of

0:32:49.560 --> 0:32:52.040
<v Speaker 2>other comments that loved it and that were, you know,

0:32:52.160 --> 0:32:55.640
<v Speaker 2>behind what I was doing, but those other ones were louder,

0:32:56.160 --> 0:33:00.400
<v Speaker 2>And I think what I had to do was not

0:33:00.440 --> 0:33:04.480
<v Speaker 2>only kind of take some distance from taking in information

0:33:04.520 --> 0:33:08.040
<v Speaker 2>about myself, which is so hard to not look, but

0:33:09.480 --> 0:33:13.800
<v Speaker 2>I had to be very clear about who who I was.

0:33:13.880 --> 0:33:16.440
<v Speaker 2>I think I spent kind of the last two years

0:33:16.480 --> 0:33:20.880
<v Speaker 2>since Beergate getting very specific about what I know about

0:33:20.880 --> 0:33:23.480
<v Speaker 2>myself to be true, so that now when I put

0:33:23.480 --> 0:33:26.560
<v Speaker 2>a book out and have a lot of new critique

0:33:26.600 --> 0:33:29.800
<v Speaker 2>coming my way, that I can stand behind those things.

0:33:30.680 --> 0:33:33.440
<v Speaker 2>I know I'm a musical theater girl. I know that

0:33:33.960 --> 0:33:37.960
<v Speaker 2>I talk too much. I know that well that even

0:33:38.240 --> 0:33:40.640
<v Speaker 2>me just saying that that was a projection of someone else.

0:33:41.120 --> 0:33:44.560
<v Speaker 2>That I love to talk is how I'll rephrase that.

0:33:44.560 --> 0:33:48.040
<v Speaker 2>That I feel really beautiful most of the time, but

0:33:48.080 --> 0:33:50.000
<v Speaker 2>that I also can sometimes get in my head and

0:33:50.040 --> 0:33:53.880
<v Speaker 2>that's often linked to dysphoria. I know that I love

0:33:53.920 --> 0:33:57.520
<v Speaker 2>to be raunchy, and that that's not something to be

0:33:57.560 --> 0:34:01.280
<v Speaker 2>ashamed of about myself. These are little things that I

0:34:01.320 --> 0:34:04.360
<v Speaker 2>think are helpful. Then when I read those, I can

0:34:04.480 --> 0:34:06.400
<v Speaker 2>kind of go down the checklist and be like, Okay,

0:34:06.440 --> 0:34:09.120
<v Speaker 2>so that's it's not here already, and I don't think

0:34:09.120 --> 0:34:15.560
<v Speaker 2>we need to add it. It's just it's so crazy

0:34:15.600 --> 0:34:18.480
<v Speaker 2>how great social media can be and then how toxic

0:34:18.520 --> 0:34:21.799
<v Speaker 2>it and even the I think it goes back to

0:34:21.840 --> 0:34:24.560
<v Speaker 2>the press too in the media of how they're pushing transphobia,

0:34:25.080 --> 0:34:27.560
<v Speaker 2>because a lot of what they're saying and these headlines

0:34:27.560 --> 0:34:31.440
<v Speaker 2>are like deeply transphobic, but they're very click baity and

0:34:31.440 --> 0:34:34.040
<v Speaker 2>those are other like those Actually I have an easier

0:34:34.040 --> 0:34:37.960
<v Speaker 2>time laughing at because it's like it feels like this,

0:34:38.120 --> 0:34:42.840
<v Speaker 2>you know, news source that couldn't be more incorrect, versus

0:34:42.840 --> 0:34:45.000
<v Speaker 2>like seeing a person's name on a screen that's like

0:34:45.160 --> 0:34:49.600
<v Speaker 2>leaving a specific comment, because that feels, in a weird

0:34:49.600 --> 0:34:53.080
<v Speaker 2>way more tangible knowing there's like a human behind it.

0:34:53.440 --> 0:34:57.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, where it's a bot though, what are bots could

0:34:57.120 --> 0:34:57.720
<v Speaker 1>just be a bot?

0:34:58.120 --> 0:35:00.319
<v Speaker 2>I don't understand. Do you have do you have bots

0:35:00.360 --> 0:35:01.600
<v Speaker 2>are looked into bots?

0:35:01.640 --> 0:35:04.760
<v Speaker 1>Oh, it's just it's relentless and it's.

0:35:04.719 --> 0:35:07.359
<v Speaker 2>We need like a queer bot farm that like throws

0:35:07.400 --> 0:35:10.000
<v Speaker 2>the good stuff out there. Just imagine someone like doing.

0:35:10.040 --> 0:35:11.719
<v Speaker 1>Like sexy sassy commentary.

0:35:11.760 --> 0:35:13.640
<v Speaker 2>Oh that would be not who's going to pay for that?

0:35:13.800 --> 0:35:15.960
<v Speaker 1>I don't know. We need a benevolent it.

0:35:16.080 --> 0:35:18.880
<v Speaker 2>Was really billion Yeah, we need a gay billionaire to

0:35:18.960 --> 0:35:19.359
<v Speaker 2>put out.

0:35:19.400 --> 0:35:21.960
<v Speaker 1>But I don't think there are any benevolent billionaires. Unfortunately.

0:35:22.000 --> 0:35:24.440
<v Speaker 2>I hate it. It's tricky, right, weird.

0:35:25.400 --> 0:35:27.359
<v Speaker 1>I don't know, but if we win the power Ball,

0:35:27.600 --> 0:35:28.400
<v Speaker 1>it could be that's.

0:35:28.280 --> 0:35:30.000
<v Speaker 2>What, and then it's going to be us making a

0:35:30.000 --> 0:35:30.719
<v Speaker 2>good bot farm.

0:35:30.840 --> 0:35:32.520
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I'm I'm here for that.

0:35:33.200 --> 0:35:38.640
<v Speaker 2>Is that an oxymoron? A good bot farm? Is it bot?

0:35:38.800 --> 0:35:41.080
<v Speaker 2>By the way, what is robot? Yeah?

0:35:41.120 --> 0:35:46.240
<v Speaker 1>Like a robot, it's a it's a little digital terrorist essentially.

0:35:46.360 --> 0:35:48.560
<v Speaker 2>I'm also getting scared of, like how we're our future

0:35:48.640 --> 0:35:49.800
<v Speaker 2>is going to go with robots?

0:35:49.920 --> 0:35:53.280
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, me too. Everything's crazy. I'm like, did nobody watch Terminator?

0:35:54.000 --> 0:35:55.520
<v Speaker 2>What are we doing with the I don't like the

0:35:55.560 --> 0:35:56.520
<v Speaker 2>self driving cars?

0:35:56.719 --> 0:35:59.640
<v Speaker 1>No creeps me out. It all creeps me out. But

0:36:00.960 --> 0:36:03.960
<v Speaker 1>at least we're entering into a future where your book exists.

0:36:04.000 --> 0:36:06.200
<v Speaker 2>Woo. I bet it's going to get banned so fast.

0:36:07.280 --> 0:36:10.319
<v Speaker 1>You know what's really sort of hilarious but sad about

0:36:10.360 --> 0:36:13.440
<v Speaker 1>you saying that is. My partner was like, what is

0:36:13.480 --> 0:36:16.520
<v Speaker 1>this enormous box of book? What is this? Like you

0:36:16.560 --> 0:36:18.080
<v Speaker 1>need any more books? And I said, oh no, sorry,

0:36:18.160 --> 0:36:19.640
<v Speaker 1>last week I had to buy all the books the

0:36:19.719 --> 0:36:23.719
<v Speaker 1>DOJ band just in case. Oh my god, we're that

0:36:24.120 --> 0:36:26.319
<v Speaker 1>in it. And I'm going, this is so weird that

0:36:26.360 --> 0:36:29.959
<v Speaker 1>I'm turning my house into a book archive just in case.

0:36:30.120 --> 0:36:33.479
<v Speaker 2>Well, I mean and say that I write in the book,

0:36:33.520 --> 0:36:35.040
<v Speaker 2>I say like, I hope the words on this page

0:36:35.120 --> 0:36:38.320
<v Speaker 2>last longer than the videos on my profile. And TikTok

0:36:38.360 --> 0:36:40.800
<v Speaker 2>got banned for a second there, and I was like, oh,

0:36:40.880 --> 0:36:43.080
<v Speaker 2>I thought this was going to be like a nostalgic

0:36:43.120 --> 0:36:45.880
<v Speaker 2>fifty years from now sentence, And now it's like the reality.

0:36:46.280 --> 0:36:49.080
<v Speaker 2>But a lot harder to get rid of something physical

0:36:49.200 --> 0:36:53.040
<v Speaker 2>like this than to, you know, have a profile disappear.

0:36:52.840 --> 0:36:54.759
<v Speaker 1>Line, push something and have it go.

0:36:55.120 --> 0:36:59.160
<v Speaker 2>And I think what I wrote about meeting Judy Bloom

0:36:58.960 --> 0:37:02.400
<v Speaker 2>in my book and I got to interview her during

0:37:02.719 --> 0:37:06.440
<v Speaker 2>literally the height of beer Gate, and what had happened

0:37:06.520 --> 0:37:09.320
<v Speaker 2>right before I walked into that interview was I got

0:37:09.680 --> 0:37:13.040
<v Speaker 2>slammed coming out of a woman's bathroom in the hotel

0:37:13.080 --> 0:37:15.719
<v Speaker 2>that I was interviewing Judy Bloom, and they you know,

0:37:15.760 --> 0:37:18.200
<v Speaker 2>were saying horrible things to me up in my face.

0:37:18.920 --> 0:37:21.640
<v Speaker 2>They had totally trespassing. But then I had to walk

0:37:21.680 --> 0:37:25.640
<v Speaker 2>into this interview with Judy and I swear things just

0:37:25.680 --> 0:37:27.400
<v Speaker 2>happened when they're supposed to do, and you see the

0:37:27.440 --> 0:37:30.040
<v Speaker 2>people that you needed because I felt so small in

0:37:30.080 --> 0:37:32.799
<v Speaker 2>that moment, and then getting to talk to her, you know,

0:37:32.840 --> 0:37:37.160
<v Speaker 2>this is a woman who had her books banned years

0:37:37.160 --> 0:37:39.320
<v Speaker 2>and years ago in like the seventies and the eighties,

0:37:39.960 --> 0:37:41.719
<v Speaker 2>and and she looked at me at the end and

0:37:41.760 --> 0:37:45.160
<v Speaker 2>she was like, do not let anyone stop you from

0:37:45.200 --> 0:37:48.160
<v Speaker 2>sharing your story, from writing it down, from putting it

0:37:48.200 --> 0:37:50.680
<v Speaker 2>out there. She's like, there's so much good to be done.

0:37:50.800 --> 0:37:52.480
<v Speaker 2>She was like, there were so many people early on

0:37:52.560 --> 0:37:57.280
<v Speaker 2>that tried to make me feel like I was, you know, evil,

0:37:57.400 --> 0:38:00.160
<v Speaker 2>or that I was doing something that was corrupting the U.

0:38:00.840 --> 0:38:03.399
<v Speaker 2>And she was like, but you have to know what

0:38:03.440 --> 0:38:05.719
<v Speaker 2>your the purpose is of something, and she was like,

0:38:05.920 --> 0:38:08.040
<v Speaker 2>you've got to put it out there. And so like

0:38:08.080 --> 0:38:10.360
<v Speaker 2>hearing that from like Judy Bloom, that's somebody that's a

0:38:10.400 --> 0:38:12.759
<v Speaker 2>little bit better to be listening to than Fox News.

0:38:12.760 --> 0:38:16.919
<v Speaker 1>I would say, well, yeah, or some insane person bombarding bathrooms.

0:38:17.840 --> 0:38:22.000
<v Speaker 1>It's so gross. It's so gross, But you know what

0:38:22.160 --> 0:38:25.360
<v Speaker 1>is is wild to me, And I think this is

0:38:25.400 --> 0:38:28.839
<v Speaker 1>something people miss again because you know, they have to

0:38:28.880 --> 0:38:31.200
<v Speaker 1>create clickbait and rage in some ways, so they have

0:38:31.239 --> 0:38:35.480
<v Speaker 1>to make everyone afraid of everyone. And there's no way

0:38:35.560 --> 0:38:40.000
<v Speaker 1>that seeing you exists in the world and be happy

0:38:40.600 --> 0:38:44.640
<v Speaker 1>is going to turn some sisc hid trams. But what

0:38:44.800 --> 0:38:48.640
<v Speaker 1>I know to be true is that a four year

0:38:48.640 --> 0:38:51.320
<v Speaker 1>old who does what you did and says to your mom,

0:38:51.920 --> 0:38:55.759
<v Speaker 1>God made a mistake, I'm in the wrong body could

0:38:55.800 --> 0:39:01.840
<v Speaker 1>see you and know that what they're saying isn't crazy

0:39:02.719 --> 0:39:05.000
<v Speaker 1>and that they're going to be okay someday. Yes, And

0:39:05.719 --> 0:39:11.640
<v Speaker 1>that to me feels like such an important thing in

0:39:11.680 --> 0:39:16.520
<v Speaker 1>the world to just make sure that people don't feel alone.

0:39:16.640 --> 0:39:20.400
<v Speaker 2>Right. And I've now what's been fascinating since talking about

0:39:20.400 --> 0:39:23.680
<v Speaker 2>that moment with my mom, Like so many people, even

0:39:23.719 --> 0:39:26.919
<v Speaker 2>in the industry, have like come to me and been like, hey,

0:39:27.239 --> 0:39:29.600
<v Speaker 2>my kid is you know going through this or And

0:39:29.800 --> 0:39:35.560
<v Speaker 2>it gives people permission to you know, have conversations and

0:39:36.160 --> 0:39:38.319
<v Speaker 2>to like get to the bottom of things in a

0:39:38.320 --> 0:39:40.640
<v Speaker 2>way that I think there was so much shame about before,

0:39:41.200 --> 0:39:43.560
<v Speaker 2>and I even told my family, I was like, I

0:39:43.600 --> 0:39:46.680
<v Speaker 2>didn't paint us as these like picture perfect people, because

0:39:46.680 --> 0:39:49.120
<v Speaker 2>we aren't and that's not what our family is. But

0:39:49.200 --> 0:39:52.279
<v Speaker 2>hopefully other people getting to see our progress and that

0:39:52.360 --> 0:39:54.759
<v Speaker 2>the fact that we all still love each other and

0:39:55.120 --> 0:39:58.799
<v Speaker 2>I feel so supportive by them is actually way more

0:39:58.800 --> 0:40:01.600
<v Speaker 2>beneficial than me painting it as like a pretty picture.

0:40:01.840 --> 0:40:05.759
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think one of the hardest things

0:40:05.800 --> 0:40:08.200
<v Speaker 1>about being a human in the public eye is that

0:40:09.160 --> 0:40:11.720
<v Speaker 1>you very rarely get to go through something and process

0:40:11.760 --> 0:40:13.400
<v Speaker 1>it and then talk about it when it's done. You

0:40:13.480 --> 0:40:15.880
<v Speaker 1>kind of have to process in real time out loud,

0:40:15.920 --> 0:40:21.000
<v Speaker 1>and I think that can be very toxic because then

0:40:21.040 --> 0:40:24.400
<v Speaker 1>your life gets treated like it's a TV show or

0:40:24.480 --> 0:40:26.359
<v Speaker 1>a storyline, and you're like.

0:40:26.320 --> 0:40:28.239
<v Speaker 2>No, this is happening to me, and it feels like

0:40:28.640 --> 0:40:35.520
<v Speaker 2>it will never change. I now feel really removed from

0:40:35.640 --> 0:40:38.399
<v Speaker 2>certain ideas that were made about me, like even being

0:40:38.400 --> 0:40:41.440
<v Speaker 2>the trans beer girl, and now years later, I'm like, oh,

0:40:41.719 --> 0:40:43.719
<v Speaker 2>I'm doing all these other things that have nothing to

0:40:43.760 --> 0:40:45.360
<v Speaker 2>do with that. And I thought that was going to

0:40:45.360 --> 0:40:47.759
<v Speaker 2>be the way that I was interpreted forever, but it's not.

0:40:47.920 --> 0:40:50.560
<v Speaker 1>But it's not, And I think It's beautiful to see

0:40:50.600 --> 0:40:53.839
<v Speaker 1>you go through certain things publicly process them and then

0:40:53.880 --> 0:40:56.400
<v Speaker 1>be able to reflect. But I love that some of

0:40:56.440 --> 0:41:01.440
<v Speaker 1>the stuff about you and your family, you've been able

0:41:01.520 --> 0:41:04.560
<v Speaker 1>to do both. You've been able to do the real time,

0:41:04.840 --> 0:41:06.560
<v Speaker 1>but you've also been able to take us in the

0:41:06.600 --> 0:41:10.440
<v Speaker 1>book on this journey backwards and yeah, you've been honest

0:41:10.480 --> 0:41:14.400
<v Speaker 1>about it. And I think honesty actually as a reader

0:41:14.719 --> 0:41:17.920
<v Speaker 1>makes me feel so hopeful for my own family, for

0:41:18.000 --> 0:41:18.759
<v Speaker 1>other families.

0:41:18.880 --> 0:41:21.120
<v Speaker 2>Well, I think you can tell when some especially if

0:41:21.120 --> 0:41:24.840
<v Speaker 2>you're like reading something of someone's like, you can tell

0:41:25.120 --> 0:41:27.319
<v Speaker 2>if how it's being spun as far as like, and

0:41:27.360 --> 0:41:29.080
<v Speaker 2>I was like, I want to be as factual as

0:41:29.080 --> 0:41:32.799
<v Speaker 2>I can with like how these moments went down, so

0:41:32.840 --> 0:41:36.200
<v Speaker 2>that people can feel whatever way that they feel about them.

0:41:36.200 --> 0:41:38.279
<v Speaker 2>And then there are moments where I really get quite

0:41:38.320 --> 0:41:41.120
<v Speaker 2>emotional and show them kind of how I was feeling

0:41:41.160 --> 0:41:44.360
<v Speaker 2>mentally versus like what was actually, you know, happening in

0:41:44.400 --> 0:41:46.520
<v Speaker 2>the world around me. And a lot of that I

0:41:46.560 --> 0:41:49.640
<v Speaker 2>think in the book kind of slowed where I went

0:41:49.719 --> 0:41:52.840
<v Speaker 2>in tod Ayahuasca in Peru and I wrote about you

0:41:52.880 --> 0:41:55.600
<v Speaker 2>know this sort of like I wanted this it to

0:41:55.600 --> 0:41:58.319
<v Speaker 2>be this quick fix and what it really did was

0:41:58.320 --> 0:42:05.480
<v Speaker 2>it like started something in myself that I was gonna

0:42:05.560 --> 0:42:07.319
<v Speaker 2>end up. I'm still thinking about so many of the

0:42:07.360 --> 0:42:10.440
<v Speaker 2>things that I found while I was down there on

0:42:10.480 --> 0:42:13.120
<v Speaker 2>that's weird to call it a drug. It really feels

0:42:13.200 --> 0:42:16.040
<v Speaker 2>more like a medicine. It's a medicine. Yes, would you

0:42:16.080 --> 0:42:20.239
<v Speaker 2>ever do aahuasca have? Oh? Wow? Okay, we I don't

0:42:20.239 --> 0:42:22.400
<v Speaker 2>even know if we've talked about I haven't. Oh, we

0:42:22.520 --> 0:42:26.680
<v Speaker 2>need to. And it's It's also funny because I think

0:42:26.760 --> 0:42:28.759
<v Speaker 2>like when I told people that I was going down

0:42:28.800 --> 0:42:31.839
<v Speaker 2>there to do that, there was either certain people were like,

0:42:32.280 --> 0:42:35.400
<v Speaker 2>that's amazing, I've always wanted to do that, tell me everything.

0:42:35.680 --> 0:42:39.279
<v Speaker 2>And then there are some people who feel really uncomfortable

0:42:39.320 --> 0:42:42.960
<v Speaker 2>by the idea of like doing something a different kind

0:42:43.000 --> 0:42:46.280
<v Speaker 2>of way. And that was like my work in progress

0:42:46.520 --> 0:42:50.440
<v Speaker 2>was to try it in a way that was not

0:42:50.600 --> 0:42:52.960
<v Speaker 2>offered to me as a young person or in my

0:42:53.040 --> 0:42:56.719
<v Speaker 2>early years, Like just you know if when when really

0:42:56.800 --> 0:42:59.920
<v Speaker 2>hits the fan doing in a different way, well, I

0:43:00.080 --> 0:43:01.239
<v Speaker 2>think a lot of.

0:43:01.200 --> 0:43:05.719
<v Speaker 1>People are scared of anything expansive. I think it's why

0:43:05.760 --> 0:43:08.480
<v Speaker 1>so many people are afraid of trans people, because you

0:43:08.640 --> 0:43:12.799
<v Speaker 1>challenge boundary and binary and you say, there's a more

0:43:12.840 --> 0:43:15.959
<v Speaker 1>expansive way to be a human. You know, our friend

0:43:15.960 --> 0:43:19.880
<v Speaker 1>Aloke talks about this all the time, that the freedom

0:43:20.640 --> 0:43:26.239
<v Speaker 1>that you have to claim to be trans is terrifying

0:43:26.280 --> 0:43:28.480
<v Speaker 1>to people that don't feel free in their own lives.

0:43:29.360 --> 0:43:32.640
<v Speaker 1>And for me, you know, ten years ago, when I

0:43:32.680 --> 0:43:37.040
<v Speaker 1>had this, like deeply prepared for you know, therapy involved

0:43:37.160 --> 0:43:43.520
<v Speaker 1>all the things experience. It was part of a larger

0:43:43.680 --> 0:43:46.960
<v Speaker 1>process of how do I begin to not be stuck

0:43:47.719 --> 0:43:50.759
<v Speaker 1>in this way of thinking? How do I begin to

0:43:51.239 --> 0:43:56.680
<v Speaker 1>interrupt a feedback loop and see other options that are

0:43:56.719 --> 0:44:01.879
<v Speaker 1>probably here but that I'm not seeing right. And I

0:44:01.920 --> 0:44:04.840
<v Speaker 1>think when you can be well researched and safe and

0:44:04.920 --> 0:44:06.200
<v Speaker 1>obviously you know.

0:44:07.960 --> 0:44:10.839
<v Speaker 2>Ready, you're ready when in whatever way ready can feel,

0:44:10.880 --> 0:44:13.440
<v Speaker 2>because it doesn't always you know, you won't feel one

0:44:13.480 --> 0:44:14.560
<v Speaker 2>hundred percent ready.

0:44:14.320 --> 0:44:16.759
<v Speaker 1>But sure, But I think that's true for anything. And

0:44:17.120 --> 0:44:21.160
<v Speaker 1>when something calls to you when you're when claiming who

0:44:21.200 --> 0:44:23.920
<v Speaker 1>you are out loud, calls to you when when saying

0:44:24.760 --> 0:44:28.240
<v Speaker 1>you know, I built this whole life and I checked

0:44:28.440 --> 0:44:31.080
<v Speaker 1>off everything on my list like a good girl, and

0:44:31.120 --> 0:44:33.799
<v Speaker 1>I really don't like it. And I think maybe I

0:44:33.840 --> 0:44:37.719
<v Speaker 1>deserve to like my life, that I learned a few

0:44:37.760 --> 0:44:40.800
<v Speaker 1>years ago is a radical act, yes, And I think

0:44:41.880 --> 0:44:46.279
<v Speaker 1>I think sometimes when you are radically courageous, people really

0:44:46.360 --> 0:44:49.759
<v Speaker 1>will shot on you for it. But some people will

0:44:49.760 --> 0:44:51.680
<v Speaker 1>also walk up and hug you and say you saved

0:44:51.680 --> 0:44:54.799
<v Speaker 1>my life, and that makes it worth it. I just

0:44:54.840 --> 0:44:57.200
<v Speaker 1>wish the Internet was less prone to sitting on people.

0:44:57.280 --> 0:45:01.000
<v Speaker 2>I sometimes I forget because I was, you know, fourteen,

0:45:01.200 --> 0:45:03.960
<v Speaker 2>the only like gay person out at my high school.

0:45:04.760 --> 0:45:07.439
<v Speaker 2>Like I forget that it is there are so many

0:45:07.480 --> 0:45:10.520
<v Speaker 2>adults that are still grappling with these decisions, that are

0:45:10.520 --> 0:45:13.239
<v Speaker 2>living these life, have children, have you know, jobs that

0:45:13.360 --> 0:45:17.400
<v Speaker 2>like that. They are trying to make the most difficult

0:45:17.440 --> 0:45:21.359
<v Speaker 2>decision to be themselves possible. And I think I have

0:45:21.440 --> 0:45:25.520
<v Speaker 2>to always remember that it's not always as easier available

0:45:25.760 --> 0:45:28.520
<v Speaker 2>to people as someone like me who was really privileged

0:45:28.560 --> 0:45:31.759
<v Speaker 2>to although my family was conservative and Catholic, like I

0:45:31.760 --> 0:45:35.520
<v Speaker 2>didn't get thrown out of the house, and I found

0:45:35.680 --> 0:45:39.719
<v Speaker 2>these pockets of community like in theater, where like some

0:45:39.760 --> 0:45:44.560
<v Speaker 2>people don't have those places to like see gay people thriving. Yeah,

0:45:44.800 --> 0:45:46.840
<v Speaker 2>so the Internet is really good in that way because

0:45:47.080 --> 0:45:49.120
<v Speaker 2>you know, people get to watch things like this.

0:45:49.280 --> 0:45:50.279
<v Speaker 1>But I.

0:45:52.719 --> 0:45:59.600
<v Speaker 2>Think that it's I don't know. This book coming out

0:45:59.680 --> 0:46:03.919
<v Speaker 2>in twenty five is crazy because it's a radical act. Yes,

0:46:03.960 --> 0:46:06.080
<v Speaker 2>but and even when it was decided they would come out,

0:46:06.160 --> 0:46:07.960
<v Speaker 2>we didn't know who the president was going to be,

0:46:08.320 --> 0:46:10.600
<v Speaker 2>We didn't know what trans legislation was going to look like.

0:46:10.960 --> 0:46:12.880
<v Speaker 2>And so I have to trust that this is the

0:46:12.960 --> 0:46:14.800
<v Speaker 2>right time. And I don't want to become a poster

0:46:14.880 --> 0:46:17.640
<v Speaker 2>child again, like how that felt like it went down

0:46:17.640 --> 0:46:23.759
<v Speaker 2>in twenty twenty two. But I feel charged up in

0:46:23.800 --> 0:46:28.279
<v Speaker 2>a really good way, which is yummy. How when do

0:46:28.360 --> 0:46:33.880
<v Speaker 2>you feel the most, like when you're feeling like really exhausted.

0:46:33.920 --> 0:46:35.880
<v Speaker 2>How long does it take you to get back into

0:46:35.960 --> 0:46:39.320
<v Speaker 2>like progress mode, or when you've like had a big

0:46:39.520 --> 0:46:43.960
<v Speaker 2>like what feels like maybe a failure, or when you

0:46:44.000 --> 0:46:45.920
<v Speaker 2>know something doesn't go your way that you've been working

0:46:45.960 --> 0:46:48.719
<v Speaker 2>so hard towards. How how long does it take you

0:46:48.760 --> 0:46:50.920
<v Speaker 2>to bounce back? And then when do you know that

0:46:50.960 --> 0:46:53.080
<v Speaker 2>you're ready?

0:46:53.719 --> 0:46:55.919
<v Speaker 1>I don't know. I think it's sort of a case

0:46:55.960 --> 0:47:01.400
<v Speaker 1>by case thing, something that I have learned monitor for myself.

0:47:01.440 --> 0:47:03.600
<v Speaker 1>As you said earlier, you went, oh, look at me,

0:47:03.680 --> 0:47:07.120
<v Speaker 1>I'm I'm already acknowledging something nasty someone said to me

0:47:07.200 --> 0:47:13.600
<v Speaker 1>and apologizing for it when I find myself so wounded

0:47:13.640 --> 0:47:17.719
<v Speaker 1>by negativity that I'm figuring out how to answer for it.

0:47:20.160 --> 0:47:21.799
<v Speaker 1>When you know, the next time I have a MIC,

0:47:21.840 --> 0:47:23.880
<v Speaker 1>I'm going to have to figure out how to gently address.

0:47:24.360 --> 0:47:27.680
<v Speaker 1>Then I know I need a beat before you know,

0:47:27.960 --> 0:47:36.000
<v Speaker 1>I see it. I don't need to explain everything to everyone.

0:47:36.880 --> 0:47:39.040
<v Speaker 1>And it's a weird thing because the Internet will critique

0:47:39.080 --> 0:47:40.520
<v Speaker 1>you if you don't, and then if you do, they

0:47:40.600 --> 0:47:42.600
<v Speaker 1>critique you for oversharing, and no matter what you do,

0:47:42.640 --> 0:47:44.920
<v Speaker 1>you can't get it right. And so I have to

0:47:44.920 --> 0:47:47.840
<v Speaker 1>take a breath and say, this is not a normal

0:47:47.920 --> 0:47:49.800
<v Speaker 1>human experience for there to be one of us and

0:47:49.920 --> 0:47:53.560
<v Speaker 1>multimillions of people talking at us all the time. Yeah,

0:47:54.400 --> 0:47:59.160
<v Speaker 1>So if I know that, how can I then try

0:47:59.200 --> 0:48:02.799
<v Speaker 1>to use it for good? Remind myself that it's also

0:48:02.880 --> 0:48:07.200
<v Speaker 1>not my real life, and be in my life as

0:48:07.280 --> 0:48:11.520
<v Speaker 1>much as I can, and that even when I can

0:48:11.960 --> 0:48:15.560
<v Speaker 1>ask myself those questions, I know I'm in a good

0:48:15.560 --> 0:48:18.880
<v Speaker 1>place because I'm making adjustments for my humanity right, not

0:48:19.040 --> 0:48:20.840
<v Speaker 1>for what something looks like.

0:48:21.239 --> 0:48:24.200
<v Speaker 2>And is Ashland the one that helps you take a

0:48:24.200 --> 0:48:28.319
<v Speaker 2>beat and like figure out what it is you are

0:48:28.400 --> 0:48:31.520
<v Speaker 2>called to say or what your you know, real opinion

0:48:31.600 --> 0:48:33.880
<v Speaker 2>is on certain things before you share that public like

0:48:34.640 --> 0:48:37.719
<v Speaker 2>who is who's the because for me it is a

0:48:37.719 --> 0:48:40.480
<v Speaker 2>lot of lily, it's my life, coach Morey, it's me

0:48:40.520 --> 0:48:42.399
<v Speaker 2>and a local couple all the time. You know, there

0:48:42.440 --> 0:48:45.600
<v Speaker 2>are those people do you have, like who do you

0:48:45.680 --> 0:48:48.560
<v Speaker 2>find yourself in those tough situations?

0:48:48.600 --> 0:48:54.200
<v Speaker 1>Going to and now a word from our wonderful sponsors.

0:49:02.760 --> 0:49:05.560
<v Speaker 1>What I think I have had to come to terms

0:49:05.600 --> 0:49:13.440
<v Speaker 1>with having real, joyful, like deep, silly, expansive love in

0:49:13.440 --> 0:49:16.879
<v Speaker 1>my life is that I have actually done so much

0:49:16.920 --> 0:49:19.640
<v Speaker 1>by myself for so long. I tend to show up

0:49:19.680 --> 0:49:24.000
<v Speaker 1>for other people, but I very rarely ask people to

0:49:24.040 --> 0:49:29.560
<v Speaker 1>show up for me. And I am learning to ask.

0:49:29.800 --> 0:49:31.520
<v Speaker 1>I am learning that I don't have to do it

0:49:31.560 --> 0:49:36.200
<v Speaker 1>all by myself. I am learning to call my you know,

0:49:36.600 --> 0:49:42.839
<v Speaker 1>wonderful coven of brilliant women and just say, like, what

0:49:42.880 --> 0:49:44.080
<v Speaker 1>the fuck are we going to do with this?

0:49:44.239 --> 0:49:47.760
<v Speaker 2>I will say, I feel like there's so many people

0:49:47.760 --> 0:49:50.280
<v Speaker 2>in this world that have to find every other opinion

0:49:50.320 --> 0:49:53.520
<v Speaker 2>with their own before they conform theirs, And so it

0:49:53.600 --> 0:49:55.520
<v Speaker 2>is kind of iconic in a way that you can

0:49:56.080 --> 0:49:59.640
<v Speaker 2>do things independently. But I will say the fact that

0:49:59.640 --> 0:50:03.640
<v Speaker 2>you have that like this like arsenal of incredible humans

0:50:03.719 --> 0:50:05.759
<v Speaker 2>to tap into, you should use it.

0:50:06.160 --> 0:50:10.720
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and I'm working on that. And it feels nice

0:50:10.800 --> 0:50:15.520
<v Speaker 1>to not have so much weight on my shoulders all

0:50:15.560 --> 0:50:19.279
<v Speaker 1>the time. I I have a question for you, because look,

0:50:19.320 --> 0:50:24.719
<v Speaker 1>we're all obviously navigating our lives. But one of the

0:50:24.719 --> 0:50:28.120
<v Speaker 1>things that I feel excited about for you as your

0:50:28.160 --> 0:50:32.319
<v Speaker 1>friend is as you kind of name and claim all

0:50:32.360 --> 0:50:36.600
<v Speaker 1>your power. I feel like you're also in this fun

0:50:36.680 --> 0:50:39.799
<v Speaker 1>moment of starting to figure out who's going to pour

0:50:39.880 --> 0:50:43.759
<v Speaker 1>into your cup. And and it's different for you. You know,

0:50:43.800 --> 0:50:47.080
<v Speaker 1>you talked about being you know, a young out gay

0:50:48.200 --> 0:50:50.680
<v Speaker 1>and then having to really come to terms with the

0:50:50.719 --> 0:50:54.600
<v Speaker 1>fact that, oh, that's not my full self. I'm actually

0:50:54.880 --> 0:50:58.759
<v Speaker 1>I'm actually this woman yes that I've always felt in me.

0:50:59.800 --> 0:51:04.959
<v Speaker 1>How how does that experience shift how you date?

0:51:05.680 --> 0:51:08.200
<v Speaker 2>Oh my god, because you're also so public. Yes, but

0:51:08.320 --> 0:51:10.920
<v Speaker 2>I will think about this tall glass of water, because

0:51:11.280 --> 0:51:15.040
<v Speaker 2>needs to be someone who is comfortable dating someone in

0:51:15.040 --> 0:51:20.440
<v Speaker 2>the public eye, is attracted to trans women, is comfortable

0:51:20.480 --> 0:51:22.640
<v Speaker 2>with maybe aspects of their life. You know, not that

0:51:22.680 --> 0:51:24.600
<v Speaker 2>I'm going to put a relationship on blast, but there

0:51:24.640 --> 0:51:28.160
<v Speaker 2>is a chance whether I speak or not that aspects

0:51:28.200 --> 0:51:31.399
<v Speaker 2>of their life could be affected by what I'm doing

0:51:31.440 --> 0:51:33.680
<v Speaker 2>and saying. So it almost has to be someone who

0:51:33.680 --> 0:51:36.560
<v Speaker 2>has like a kink for like an oversharing trans woman.

0:51:37.120 --> 0:51:41.799
<v Speaker 2>But like what I the most important thing is that

0:51:41.880 --> 0:51:46.320
<v Speaker 2>I cannot be with someone who I have any doubts

0:51:47.000 --> 0:51:50.520
<v Speaker 2>is ashamed to be with me. And because what I

0:51:50.520 --> 0:51:53.480
<v Speaker 2>have done so well is like start to let go

0:51:53.560 --> 0:51:55.600
<v Speaker 2>of the shame that I have around who I am.

0:51:55.760 --> 0:51:58.920
<v Speaker 2>So what would be the worst case scenario is me

0:51:58.960 --> 0:52:02.560
<v Speaker 2>attaching myself to someone else who then I start changing

0:52:02.560 --> 0:52:07.200
<v Speaker 2>myself based on how they're reflecting back to me and

0:52:07.239 --> 0:52:09.400
<v Speaker 2>what they're seeing in me and what they articulate to

0:52:09.480 --> 0:52:14.120
<v Speaker 2>me about myself. And so I really think it's going

0:52:14.200 --> 0:52:16.880
<v Speaker 2>to be so I actually it's a hot take, but

0:52:16.920 --> 0:52:19.200
<v Speaker 2>I would like it to be someone that has something

0:52:19.239 --> 0:52:21.040
<v Speaker 2>to do either with our industry or is in the

0:52:21.040 --> 0:52:23.880
<v Speaker 2>public eye already, so that like if I was with

0:52:23.960 --> 0:52:27.600
<v Speaker 2>this like doctor that you know there doesn't get rocked

0:52:27.600 --> 0:52:31.040
<v Speaker 2>on the daily mail because like there's just things.

0:52:30.800 --> 0:52:34.880
<v Speaker 1>And maybe baptize someone in the public life fire.

0:52:35.160 --> 0:52:37.799
<v Speaker 2>I get that, yes, And so in a way there

0:52:37.840 --> 0:52:40.400
<v Speaker 2>would be some comfort in knowing, like, oh, this person

0:52:40.760 --> 0:52:45.560
<v Speaker 2>has their own thing going on as well, But I

0:52:45.560 --> 0:52:52.719
<v Speaker 2>think I'm really turned on by creativity, by drive. I

0:52:52.760 --> 0:52:55.600
<v Speaker 2>find it so like, what if I'm like out on

0:52:55.640 --> 0:52:57.120
<v Speaker 2>a date with someone and they're talking about all the

0:52:57.120 --> 0:53:01.080
<v Speaker 2>things they're doing, I get so horny because I'm like, oh,

0:53:01.120 --> 0:53:03.520
<v Speaker 2>this is someone who has like like dreams and ambitions

0:53:03.600 --> 0:53:05.719
<v Speaker 2>just the way that I am. So they're not gonna

0:53:05.719 --> 0:53:07.840
<v Speaker 2>if I come in, you know, I walk into the

0:53:07.840 --> 0:53:09.520
<v Speaker 2>house one day and I'm like, I want to do this, this,

0:53:09.520 --> 0:53:12.440
<v Speaker 2>this and this that. They're like, WHOA like? I think

0:53:12.600 --> 0:53:17.040
<v Speaker 2>I want like a yes human. And I've really I've

0:53:17.080 --> 0:53:20.839
<v Speaker 2>tried the hookup thing. I've found it to be really true.

0:53:20.960 --> 0:53:22.680
<v Speaker 2>La Is Honey, it's not what I mean.

0:53:22.760 --> 0:53:23.640
<v Speaker 1>You've tried the hookup.

0:53:23.640 --> 0:53:28.960
<v Speaker 2>I've tried the casual whether it's I mean, so I'm

0:53:29.120 --> 0:53:32.000
<v Speaker 2>so crazy, I'm so really weird. I've actually I only

0:53:32.000 --> 0:53:34.640
<v Speaker 2>have Riyah. I've been thinking about potentially deleting it just

0:53:34.680 --> 0:53:41.399
<v Speaker 2>because it hasn't yielded the greatest results. But I think

0:53:41.440 --> 0:53:45.759
<v Speaker 2>there what's the word, oh, demi sexual? I think maybe

0:53:45.800 --> 0:53:49.239
<v Speaker 2>chapel Rone was talking about in an interview about what

0:53:49.320 --> 0:53:52.880
<v Speaker 2>I like is I need to be emotionally connected with

0:53:52.920 --> 0:53:55.959
<v Speaker 2>someone beforehand, and especially I think being trans, I feel

0:53:56.000 --> 0:53:58.600
<v Speaker 2>really protective over my body and the fact that there's

0:53:58.640 --> 0:54:02.520
<v Speaker 2>still so many things changing with it, and I want

0:54:02.560 --> 0:54:06.719
<v Speaker 2>it to be someone that I like, Like, it is

0:54:06.760 --> 0:54:08.160
<v Speaker 2>hard for me to get to a place where I'm

0:54:08.200 --> 0:54:10.480
<v Speaker 2>like ready to like take my makeup off and like,

0:54:10.680 --> 0:54:13.640
<v Speaker 2>god rude. I was thinking about you know, oh, someone

0:54:13.719 --> 0:54:16.000
<v Speaker 2>was talking about like shower sex recently, and I was like, Okay,

0:54:16.040 --> 0:54:19.000
<v Speaker 2>that's my worst nightmare because I was like, not only

0:54:19.040 --> 0:54:21.120
<v Speaker 2>are the fake lashes you know they're coming off, but

0:54:21.280 --> 0:54:25.719
<v Speaker 2>like that is really it's such a vulnerable state to

0:54:25.760 --> 0:54:30.760
<v Speaker 2>be in. But I really hope that it's with someone

0:54:30.800 --> 0:54:33.080
<v Speaker 2>and I like older. I've always liked a mature soul,

0:54:34.040 --> 0:54:40.440
<v Speaker 2>But I hope it's with someone who is proud to

0:54:40.480 --> 0:54:45.239
<v Speaker 2>be with the trans person and is and who gets

0:54:45.280 --> 0:54:47.439
<v Speaker 2>a kick out of whatever it is that I'm doing

0:54:47.520 --> 0:54:49.319
<v Speaker 2>or want to do. Yeah, and I want to be

0:54:49.320 --> 0:54:50.000
<v Speaker 2>the same with them.

0:54:50.600 --> 0:54:51.160
<v Speaker 1>I love that.

0:54:51.960 --> 0:54:54.080
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I don't know, you got to think about I'm

0:54:54.080 --> 0:54:59.759
<v Speaker 2>looking for like twenty eight to fifty eight. Mask by

0:55:00.080 --> 0:55:04.320
<v Speaker 2>actual vibe feels gummy, you know, kind of like daddy,

0:55:04.440 --> 0:55:08.480
<v Speaker 2>but also you know, can be like soft as well.

0:55:09.160 --> 0:55:11.640
<v Speaker 2>Think on it. You've got you've got a pool of queers.

0:55:11.680 --> 0:55:14.200
<v Speaker 1>Now, oh, I'm gonna really, I'm gonna think.

0:55:14.320 --> 0:55:16.040
<v Speaker 2>And the other thing I used to did gay men,

0:55:16.520 --> 0:55:19.239
<v Speaker 2>and they were so much better than straight guys. I

0:55:19.280 --> 0:55:22.279
<v Speaker 2>had no idea what I was missing and like or

0:55:22.280 --> 0:55:25.040
<v Speaker 2>what that I had in that what I ended up

0:55:25.080 --> 0:55:26.719
<v Speaker 2>getting was not as good as I thought it was

0:55:26.760 --> 0:55:29.200
<v Speaker 2>going to be. And I have an essay called the

0:55:29.280 --> 0:55:33.319
<v Speaker 2>Kissing Bandit in the book where I talk about, you know,

0:55:33.480 --> 0:55:36.080
<v Speaker 2>just like what it felt like to have like the

0:55:36.120 --> 0:55:38.319
<v Speaker 2>straight male gaze on me for the first time, and

0:55:38.360 --> 0:55:43.560
<v Speaker 2>not the gaze, but the gaze, and I thought it

0:55:43.600 --> 0:55:45.839
<v Speaker 2>was going to feel so much better than it did.

0:55:46.040 --> 0:55:51.560
<v Speaker 2>It was. It was such a an empty confidence that

0:55:51.600 --> 0:55:54.719
<v Speaker 2>came from it. And you know, it can feel good sometimes,

0:55:54.719 --> 0:55:57.279
<v Speaker 2>but it doesn't make me feel as good as like

0:55:58.160 --> 0:56:00.520
<v Speaker 2>when a girl's hyping me up and know in the

0:56:00.560 --> 0:56:04.680
<v Speaker 2>bathroom it or you know, a phone call with Lily,

0:56:04.800 --> 0:56:08.080
<v Speaker 2>Like it's interesting to now I've I've kind of gotten

0:56:08.120 --> 0:56:12.000
<v Speaker 2>to look at life on both sides, like Joni Mitchell. Yeah,

0:56:12.040 --> 0:56:15.680
<v Speaker 2>and I love that I can see like the perks

0:56:15.680 --> 0:56:18.920
<v Speaker 2>of living life as a gay man versus as a woman.

0:56:19.840 --> 0:56:22.839
<v Speaker 2>What the how the queer community treats you depending on

0:56:23.320 --> 0:56:26.000
<v Speaker 2>what gender you are, you know, like how women treat you.

0:56:26.080 --> 0:56:29.359
<v Speaker 2>Oh and that changed a lot and it's still, you know,

0:56:29.480 --> 0:56:35.759
<v Speaker 2>evolving in something that I feel, I hope does not

0:56:35.880 --> 0:56:40.000
<v Speaker 2>digress because I feel like I have really taken the

0:56:40.560 --> 0:56:42.400
<v Speaker 2>not a back seat at all, like almost like the

0:56:43.160 --> 0:56:48.560
<v Speaker 2>passenger seat to the driver in learning from other gals. Yeah,

0:56:48.800 --> 0:56:51.640
<v Speaker 2>what do you feel like you're learning? I think I'm

0:56:51.719 --> 0:56:55.279
<v Speaker 2>learning that not all like I think I was. It

0:56:55.320 --> 0:56:57.279
<v Speaker 2>felt for a long time like it was CIS women

0:56:57.360 --> 0:56:59.560
<v Speaker 2>versus trans women, And I'm realizing there's a lot of

0:57:00.080 --> 0:57:03.600
<v Speaker 2>the girls are fighting in both categories, but that there

0:57:03.600 --> 0:57:05.040
<v Speaker 2>are a lot of CIS women who do not do

0:57:05.040 --> 0:57:07.480
<v Speaker 2>not see eye to eye on things as well. In

0:57:07.600 --> 0:57:13.480
<v Speaker 2>that to me gave me permission to not look at

0:57:13.560 --> 0:57:16.840
<v Speaker 2>us as these two different categories of people, but actually

0:57:17.240 --> 0:57:21.920
<v Speaker 2>see the nuance of what exists within womanhood and feminism

0:57:21.960 --> 0:57:24.960
<v Speaker 2>and knowing that, like even I'm watching the White Lotus

0:57:25.040 --> 0:57:29.680
<v Speaker 2>right now, and it's so interesting, like when you've got

0:57:29.680 --> 0:57:31.360
<v Speaker 2>like a we're looking at these are you have you

0:57:31.400 --> 0:57:35.840
<v Speaker 2>watched it yet? Like a friend group of women who

0:57:35.840 --> 0:57:40.200
<v Speaker 2>maybe have different political beliefs, and how that shifts, you know,

0:57:40.320 --> 0:57:47.680
<v Speaker 2>the conversations and the judgments, and I think that I

0:57:48.920 --> 0:57:54.200
<v Speaker 2>now have less of a desire to be accepted by

0:57:54.680 --> 0:57:58.920
<v Speaker 2>every single woman, and it's more of a desire to

0:57:59.080 --> 0:58:04.800
<v Speaker 2>be respect did by those that I deeply respect. Yes, yes, yeah,

0:58:04.800 --> 0:58:07.040
<v Speaker 2>and a lot of And I will say, like the

0:58:07.480 --> 0:58:10.360
<v Speaker 2>gals that I've loved and my role models growing up,

0:58:10.440 --> 0:58:13.240
<v Speaker 2>like now, some of which are like friends, and and

0:58:13.360 --> 0:58:17.400
<v Speaker 2>that is what a gift like that is has helped

0:58:17.600 --> 0:58:21.320
<v Speaker 2>show me that I I'm the kind of gal that

0:58:21.720 --> 0:58:24.680
<v Speaker 2>I I loved growing up and that I would continue

0:58:24.680 --> 0:58:25.160
<v Speaker 2>wanting to be.

0:58:26.760 --> 0:58:29.400
<v Speaker 1>I love that for you, Love, You're the gal you

0:58:29.520 --> 0:58:30.560
<v Speaker 1>loved growing up.

0:58:30.920 --> 0:58:34.360
<v Speaker 2>I'm so the city I've been watching so much of

0:58:34.520 --> 0:58:38.680
<v Speaker 2>and like I you know, there's this like fear I

0:58:38.720 --> 0:58:42.480
<v Speaker 2>think as a trans person that you are you know,

0:58:42.520 --> 0:58:44.440
<v Speaker 2>made out to be a caricature, or that you're taking

0:58:44.480 --> 0:58:48.920
<v Speaker 2>on aspects of of you know, other women or fictional women.

0:58:49.600 --> 0:58:51.600
<v Speaker 2>And so I did feel a little guilty. I was like, oh,

0:58:51.600 --> 0:58:54.160
<v Speaker 2>I love Audrey Heppern and I love her style, but

0:58:54.240 --> 0:58:56.880
<v Speaker 2>I don't want it to seem like I'm like cosplaying

0:58:56.920 --> 0:58:59.040
<v Speaker 2>as her. I love Charlotte from Sex and the City,

0:58:59.400 --> 0:59:01.160
<v Speaker 2>and you know, I feel so connected to her as

0:59:01.160 --> 0:59:03.200
<v Speaker 2>a character, but I don't want it to seem like

0:59:03.240 --> 0:59:06.240
<v Speaker 2>that's what I'm like trying to be. And then I realize, like,

0:59:06.400 --> 0:59:09.440
<v Speaker 2>oh no, that's just You're seeing things, whether it's in

0:59:09.480 --> 0:59:11.520
<v Speaker 2>a character or in a human or in a celebrity,

0:59:11.800 --> 0:59:14.120
<v Speaker 2>that you see within yourself and that have already existed.

0:59:14.200 --> 0:59:16.520
<v Speaker 2>And it's not that they're things that I'm putting on,

0:59:17.000 --> 0:59:19.200
<v Speaker 2>but it's things that I see in others that I

0:59:19.560 --> 0:59:22.880
<v Speaker 2>love and that I want to make even a little

0:59:22.920 --> 0:59:23.920
<v Speaker 2>brighter within me.

0:59:24.600 --> 0:59:28.000
<v Speaker 1>One of the things you identify with, Yes, that you

0:59:28.040 --> 0:59:31.720
<v Speaker 1>feel represented by, that you feel that make you feel seen.

0:59:32.000 --> 0:59:34.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, are what girl on Sex and City? Are you?

0:59:36.560 --> 0:59:39.960
<v Speaker 1>I don't know? Probably, I mean, let's be honest, I'm

0:59:41.160 --> 0:59:44.400
<v Speaker 1>I think people probably would have thought Carrie. But I

0:59:44.440 --> 0:59:46.919
<v Speaker 1>think I'm a little more Miranda. My dad still can't

0:59:46.920 --> 0:59:49.280
<v Speaker 1>believe I'm not a lawyer. He's like, you love to argue,

0:59:49.320 --> 0:59:51.120
<v Speaker 1>you love to fight for justice.

0:59:51.240 --> 0:59:54.200
<v Speaker 2>I see some Miranda there. I also think, like you

0:59:54.800 --> 0:59:59.880
<v Speaker 2>old an earnestness and an innocence still that is kind

0:59:59.880 --> 1:00:00.600
<v Speaker 2>of it gives.

1:00:00.480 --> 1:00:02.520
<v Speaker 1>You Charlotte a ya a sweet angel.

1:00:02.600 --> 1:00:04.920
<v Speaker 2>Yes, because that is such a rarity and I like

1:00:05.040 --> 1:00:07.320
<v Speaker 2>that is honestly, when I think of our group of

1:00:07.320 --> 1:00:11.280
<v Speaker 2>friends and those that we hang out with, like, there

1:00:11.480 --> 1:00:14.400
<v Speaker 2>is that innocence that I love. We talked about it

1:00:14.520 --> 1:00:17.120
<v Speaker 2>last last year on the pod of like you know,

1:00:17.280 --> 1:00:20.880
<v Speaker 2>finding people that have Oh, and I loved. Jane Fonda

1:00:21.040 --> 1:00:24.280
<v Speaker 2>recently dd a podcast interview where she talked about optimism

1:00:24.360 --> 1:00:26.800
<v Speaker 2>versus hope. Yes, and so with Kerrie Washington.

1:00:26.920 --> 1:00:28.200
<v Speaker 1>Yes, it was so good I.

1:00:28.640 --> 1:00:30.880
<v Speaker 2>Now because I feel like for so long I've been

1:00:30.920 --> 1:00:34.840
<v Speaker 2>like I am an you know, eternal optimist, and now

1:00:34.840 --> 1:00:36.080
<v Speaker 2>I'm like, oh, no, we're hopeful.

1:00:36.120 --> 1:00:36.720
<v Speaker 1>I'm hopeful.

1:00:36.800 --> 1:00:38.040
<v Speaker 2>I'm still so hopeful.

1:00:39.120 --> 1:00:46.880
<v Speaker 1>Is that going into this crazy year where literally our

1:00:47.040 --> 1:00:51.080
<v Speaker 1>rights are being stripped away and democracy might be lost?

1:00:51.160 --> 1:00:54.080
<v Speaker 1>But your book is coming out? Yes, it's the horrors

1:00:54.120 --> 1:00:57.720
<v Speaker 1>and the joy yep. Is it hope that feels like

1:00:57.720 --> 1:00:59.640
<v Speaker 1>you're work in progress right now? Or is it something

1:00:59.640 --> 1:01:00.480
<v Speaker 1>complete different?

1:01:00.560 --> 1:01:04.880
<v Speaker 2>Well, it's actually I think it's a balance of realism

1:01:05.000 --> 1:01:07.480
<v Speaker 2>versus hope. And for I think for a long time

1:01:07.560 --> 1:01:09.640
<v Speaker 2>I lived I'm a zero to one hundred person, one

1:01:09.720 --> 1:01:12.360
<v Speaker 2>hundred percent just hopeful in a way that I got

1:01:12.360 --> 1:01:17.680
<v Speaker 2>burned so many times because I wasn't taking into consideration

1:01:18.560 --> 1:01:21.120
<v Speaker 2>what could happen, or the realities of what it meant

1:01:21.160 --> 1:01:23.200
<v Speaker 2>to be trans in America, or the realities of living

1:01:23.240 --> 1:01:27.040
<v Speaker 2>in the public eye. I always assumed the best of everyone, yeah,

1:01:27.440 --> 1:01:30.920
<v Speaker 2>even the media, and it has it's bitten me enough

1:01:31.400 --> 1:01:34.720
<v Speaker 2>for me to know the possibilities of what that looks like.

1:01:34.800 --> 1:01:38.880
<v Speaker 2>And so I'm a little more cautious. But the hope

1:01:39.040 --> 1:01:43.720
<v Speaker 2>is that I can exist in a place where it's

1:01:43.720 --> 1:01:46.440
<v Speaker 2>the best case scenario and that the good things are possible,

1:01:46.520 --> 1:01:49.720
<v Speaker 2>and that my you know, vision board can come true.

1:01:50.320 --> 1:01:54.640
<v Speaker 2>And then it's the lack of when those things don't

1:01:54.680 --> 1:01:57.360
<v Speaker 2>happen or can't happen because of the year that we're

1:01:57.400 --> 1:02:00.000
<v Speaker 2>living in or the government that we have, or whatever

1:02:00.080 --> 1:02:03.240
<v Speaker 2>that might be, that I have a plan B, C

1:02:03.440 --> 1:02:07.360
<v Speaker 2>and D that can still you know, get me through

1:02:07.400 --> 1:02:09.840
<v Speaker 2>and that I can still live a full life hopefully.

1:02:10.200 --> 1:02:11.840
<v Speaker 2>But I'm not going to go to Plan B, C

1:02:12.000 --> 1:02:16.080
<v Speaker 2>or D before I try Plan A and And I

1:02:16.120 --> 1:02:19.600
<v Speaker 2>think that has been really crucial, Like even this year,

1:02:19.640 --> 1:02:21.720
<v Speaker 2>I don't have a vision. I'm always a vision board girl.

1:02:21.760 --> 1:02:24.880
<v Speaker 2>I've like I've always been able to manifest like magical things,

1:02:25.120 --> 1:02:29.160
<v Speaker 2>but it feels so out of the ordinary right now

1:02:29.160 --> 1:02:33.000
<v Speaker 2>that I have forced myself to like want certain things,

1:02:33.880 --> 1:02:38.920
<v Speaker 2>but I am approaching every single like opportunity. I'm like,

1:02:38.960 --> 1:02:41.800
<v Speaker 2>does this help me become a Broadway diva? I love that.

1:02:41.800 --> 1:02:43.720
<v Speaker 2>That's my vision board for this year is that question.

1:02:45.120 --> 1:02:47.680
<v Speaker 2>And there's like hope within that, and I think so

1:02:47.760 --> 1:02:50.680
<v Speaker 2>I will say, oh yes, thank you, Jane Fonda. Hope

1:02:50.840 --> 1:02:52.280
<v Speaker 2>is my work in progress right now.

1:02:52.680 --> 1:02:53.120
<v Speaker 1>I love it.

1:02:53.240 --> 1:02:54.680
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, what's yours right now?

1:02:54.760 --> 1:02:58.920
<v Speaker 1>You give me a lot of hope. I think slowing

1:02:58.960 --> 1:03:01.880
<v Speaker 1>down it's really hard for me.

1:03:02.200 --> 1:03:03.400
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, but I am.

1:03:04.520 --> 1:03:10.680
<v Speaker 1>I am just so ready for slow tender.

1:03:11.440 --> 1:03:14.120
<v Speaker 2>We don't want to be everywhere and nowhere. We want

1:03:14.160 --> 1:03:17.240
<v Speaker 2>to be some places and giving one hundred percent.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh I love you, oh so proud of you.