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Speaker 1: Also media.

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Speaker 2: Oh, welcome back to Bastards Behind the Stole Katie podcast.

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Speaker 2: Guest a, what a title. Yeah, you can put that all.

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Speaker 2: I believe in our audience they can put it together.

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Speaker 2: They can put it together. You know, you know what

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Speaker 2: I'm getting at.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, they get the gist.

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Speaker 2: They get the gist. Come on, do I need to

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Speaker 2: do everything for you people?

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Speaker 3: Presumably they heard part one?

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Speaker 2: So yeah, I'm just going to record a podcast that's

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Speaker 2: me reading most of the words and then re release

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Speaker 2: it every week with a different bastard and you can

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Speaker 2: put it together in your head, is like the right

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Speaker 2: bad person.

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Speaker 3: But do you expect them to do all the work

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Speaker 3: for you?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? Come on, now, we got to be able to

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Speaker 2: meet in the middle here.

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Speaker 3: It's called compromise.

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Speaker 2: I don't know. Yeah, how are we doing, Katie? How

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Speaker 2: are you feeling in the five minutes since we recorded

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Speaker 2: part one?

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Speaker 3: Honestly?

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Speaker 4: Great?

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Speaker 3: I reheated my tea, great, cuddled, great, feel refreshed. Great,

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Speaker 3: Waiting with baited breath to hear more about Nature Boy.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, let's hear about nature Boy. The boy Nature

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Speaker 2: that's the name he's picked up at the start of

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Speaker 2: this episode, and we should start today by talking a

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Speaker 2: little bit more about the conscious community or the Black

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Speaker 2: consciousness community. I've heard it described as bost things. Again,

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Speaker 2: this is a subculture, not a massive one, but not

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Speaker 2: a small one either, that exists primarily through kind of

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Speaker 2: a nexus of YouTube and podcasters and some rappers. Rolling

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Speaker 2: Stone writer David Peisner describes it as quote an ecosystem

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Speaker 2: of black spiritualists, natural living advocates, herbalists, alternative historians, motivational speakers,

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Speaker 2: and backpack rappers. Having gone through a bit of related

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Speaker 2: non culty content creators, I'm sorry, backpack, yeah, which I

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Speaker 2: think is a term for like rappers who are kind

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Speaker 2: of not not massive, you know, they travel around and

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Speaker 2: do a lot of like local shows and stuff kind

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Speaker 2: of you know that, Like, yeah, probably do a lot

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Speaker 2: of I think SoundCloud wrapper is an adjacent sort of thing, right, Okay.

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Speaker 2: Having gone through a bit of related non culty content

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Speaker 2: creators in this space, a lot of what I see

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Speaker 2: in this community reminds me of stuff that I saw

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Speaker 2: and was kind of had sort of experienced adjacent to

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Speaker 2: some of the different like hippyish, you know, communities I

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Speaker 2: spent time in when I was in my late teens

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Speaker 2: early twenties, you know, the Rainbow Gathering people in the

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Speaker 2: Burner community, all these like different sort of where you

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Speaker 2: would encounter this mix, this wide mix of everything from like,

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Speaker 2: here's people who are actually really interested in you know,

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Speaker 2: aquaponics and human maneuver and alternative living situations. And here's

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Speaker 2: people who are actually trying to inform folks about important

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Speaker 2: aspects of American history that have been covered up. And

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Speaker 2: here's people who are telling you absolute nonsense about how

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Speaker 2: you don't need vaccines if you eat enough zinc, and

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Speaker 2: they're trying to get you to believe in you know whatever,

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Speaker 2: fucking bullshit.

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Speaker 3: Alien piggybacking on another movement. That's a one way to

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Speaker 3: look at it. But yeah, it's a net that casts

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Speaker 3: some good things and some bad things.

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Speaker 2: Yes, And the kind of the big difference between a

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Speaker 2: lot of where you know, this kind of these kind

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Speaker 2: of different sort of hippyish descended movements that I spent

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Speaker 2: time in and around when I was doing psychedelics a

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Speaker 2: bunch and this community, which also focuses the conscious community

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Speaker 2: a lot of psychedelic usage, is that there's a much

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Speaker 2: more of a focus on racial justice because this is

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Speaker 2: much more of like a black subculture and a lot

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Speaker 2: of education on the history of white supremacy. So again

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Speaker 2: you get these real the Tuskegee experiment, redlining, the move bombing,

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Speaker 2: and also like like moon landing, conspiracies, anti vaxshit, you know,

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Speaker 2: all that stuff. I found a write up in medium

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Speaker 2: by Anna stands Guard which gives a good idea of

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Speaker 2: how people in this community like to describe themselves and

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Speaker 2: it focuses a lot on the concept of a conscious community,

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Speaker 2: which is where the conscious community subculture takes its name,

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Speaker 2: but is an older term for that goes back. You

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Speaker 2: can find people talking about shit like this in like

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Speaker 2: the seventies and eighties. This is people would use the

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Speaker 2: term to describe these kind of idealized, physical, intentional communities

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Speaker 2: formed along utopian lines, which is a thing people have

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Speaker 2: done in America since the nation has existed. And this

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Speaker 2: term is you know, goes back further than the subculture

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Speaker 2: we're talking about now. Since forming real world breakaway communities

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Speaker 2: is hard and usually a bad idea, very difficult to do,

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Speaker 2: most people wind up hating each other. Most of these

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Speaker 2: projects explode. The vast majority of people in this subculture.

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Speaker 2: It's an aspirational thing right, and they just kind of

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Speaker 2: connect and talk about what they'd like to do via

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Speaker 2: the internet, Anna writes, quote, as it turns out there's

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Speaker 2: a parallel digital world teeming with conscious travelers. I discovered

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Speaker 2: Facebook groups where conscious travelers or nomad share their experiences

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Speaker 2: and carrate lists of the best conscious hotspots worldwide. Furthermore,

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Speaker 2: jat GPT can serve as a valuable resource in your

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Speaker 2: global exploration of conscious communities, offering guidance, insights, and information

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Speaker 2: to enhance your search for specific location. So again, most

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Speaker 2: of this isn't real. It's an aesthetic. People like the

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Speaker 2: image of going back to the land, of being conscious,

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Speaker 2: of being enlightened, of being spiritual. But also all they

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Speaker 2: really want to do is stay at a nice hotel.

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Speaker 5: You know.

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Speaker 2: That's really a lot of this, right, So yeah, I

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Speaker 2: do want to talk about another influence in this community,

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Speaker 2: and kind of where a lot of the name comes

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Speaker 2: from is an actual movement called the Black Consciousness movement,

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Speaker 2: which is a real thing that comes out of the

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Speaker 2: black radical history in apartheid era South Africa, and specifically

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Speaker 2: a guy named Steve Bicko. Bicco was the first president

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Speaker 2: of the South African Students Organization when it launched in

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Speaker 2: eighteen sixty nine, and inspired by black thinkers like France Fannon,

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Speaker 2: he began publishing articles that posited an ideology he called

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Speaker 2: black consciousness. He described his goal as to quote demonstrate

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Speaker 2: the lie that black is an aberration from the normal,

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Speaker 2: which is white. Biko urged the black community to celebrate

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Speaker 2: and take pride in their history and traditional cultural and

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Speaker 2: religious practices as the indigenous people of South Africa, pushing

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Speaker 2: people to decolonize both the state and their own minds.

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Speaker 2: He was a cool guy, which is why the police

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Speaker 2: murdered him for a very good article in well we're

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Speaker 2: talking about a black radical leader in nineteen sixty nine

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Speaker 2: South Africa. The odds are good. He wound up getting

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Speaker 2: murdered by the cops, right like it's a pummer, Yeah

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Speaker 2: it is. Yeah. I'm going to quote from a very

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Speaker 2: good article on Biko in the Retrospect Journal. Quote. The

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Speaker 2: apartheid government regarded black consciousness as a growing threat and

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Speaker 2: placed a banning order on Biko in nineteen seventy three.

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Speaker 2: The repressive practice of banning originated from the nineteen fifty

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Speaker 2: Suppression of Communism Act, which regarded all political opposition as

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Speaker 2: a communist threat. As a result, a banning order restricted

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Speaker 2: a person's travel and social interactions, as well as preventing

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Speaker 2: them from public speaking or distributing written material. In Bicco's case,

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Speaker 2: he was limited to speaking to one person at a

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Speaker 2: time and forbidden from being a member of any political organizations.

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Speaker 2: Several tactics were used to circumvent the strict measures of

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Speaker 2: his band. Bicco struck up a close friendship with the

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Speaker 2: white liberal editor of The Daily Dispatch, Donald Woods. Over time,

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Speaker 2: Woods became more educated about the plights of black South Africans,

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Speaker 2: secretly writing Bicco's biography when he was himself banned. In

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Speaker 2: nineteen seventy seven, Bicco was arrested for traveling outside of

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Speaker 2: and therefore breaking his banning order. He was severely beaten

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Speaker 2: whilst in police custody and died of his injuries at

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Speaker 2: just thirty years old. Again literally banned from talking to

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Speaker 2: more than one person at a time.

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Speaker 3: That is wild.

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Speaker 2: Fuck that government, ummm, very supressing. I bring this up

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Speaker 2: because not because nature Boy has Any is a an

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Speaker 2: inheritor of Bicco's tradition, but because the black conscience, the

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Speaker 2: modern black consciousness subculture or conscious community, and I've heard

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Speaker 2: both names used for this same kind of amorphous subculture

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Speaker 2: is in some ways related to the Black consciousness movement,

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Speaker 2: and a lot of what Nature Boy is doing is

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Speaker 2: kind of taking some of these things and pulling them

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Speaker 2: in a toxic direction. For example, a big part of

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Speaker 2: Black consciousness is the idea that we need to we

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Speaker 2: need to really get people to accept that being black

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Speaker 2: is not an aberration, right, Like it is just as

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Speaker 2: normal as being white, which is a really important thing,

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Speaker 2: right that, Like, black is not an aberration from the normal.

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Speaker 2: And the toxic sort of way that's taken is like no, no, no,

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Speaker 2: having more melanin is directly what makes you intelligent, and

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Speaker 2: having more makes you an inherently better person. Right, Your

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Speaker 2: boy takes it, right.

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Speaker 3: See that a version of that sentiment today on Twitter.

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Speaker 2: It's not just a nature build, it's not just nature

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Speaker 2: Boy thing, right.

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Speaker 3: But it's interesting that I just saw that an hour

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Speaker 3: ago and I went huh, And I was really trying

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Speaker 3: to get to the bottom of what this guy was

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Speaker 3: even saying, but it took me aback.

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Speaker 2: So interesting.

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Speaker 3: There's like what we're talking about right now, it's.

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Speaker 2: Just yeah, it's it's you can see, it's important to

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Speaker 2: understand kind of some of the history and like the

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Speaker 2: term that these people are aping. And also in a way,

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Speaker 2: it's also important to understand what Nature Boy a big

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Speaker 2: part of. Once he becomes like a media influencer, he's

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Speaker 2: constantly going to be talking about how he's being targeted

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Speaker 2: for murder, how the police are trying to kill him

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Speaker 2: for his revolutionary actions. That's not at all a part

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Speaker 2: of his story, but that is a huge part of

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Speaker 2: actual people who were actual revolutionaries in the actual Black

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Speaker 2: consciousness movement, right, that is what happened to them, and

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Speaker 2: he's kind of like stealing valor from them. While again,

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Speaker 2: rather than trying to liberate people in bondage, all Nature

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Speaker 2: Boy is trying to do is get a bunch of

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Speaker 2: wives and convince them to poop outdoors, which is not revolutionisty.

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Speaker 3: No, it doesn't sound in enlightenment in the lighten not

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Speaker 3: particularly enlightened either, Yeah or enlightened. I don't think Steve

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Speaker 3: Bicko would have been super into this. Yeah, Okay, So

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Speaker 3: when nature Boy gets into the conscious community, the first

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Speaker 3: figure within it that he finds himself drawn to is

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Speaker 3: a guy who goes by the name Young Pharaoh. Now,

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Speaker 3: when I first started looking Young Pharaoh up, I was

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Speaker 3: kind of surprised because he's talked about in these documentaries

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Speaker 3: about what happens as a pretty big figure, and Nature

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Speaker 3: Boy talks about him as a big figure. He's only

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Speaker 3: got like a thousand followers on Instagram and a little

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Speaker 3: more on YouTube. But then I looked into it, it turns

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Speaker 3: out he used to be much bigger and have a

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Speaker 3: much larger platform, and he lost his mind during twenty

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Speaker 3: twenty many such cases.

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Speaker 2: And so many such of places, and he never really recovered. Previously,

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Speaker 2: prior to twenty twenty, he had started out and started

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Speaker 2: building his platform within the subculture by making a lot

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Speaker 2: of videos about police brutality, white supremacy, and he did

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Speaker 2: well enough the making serious money, and he's making like

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Speaker 2: two hundred grand a year at one point. And he

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Speaker 2: kind of switches in and around twenty twenty, and it

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Speaker 2: starts sort of right before and starts singing a very

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Speaker 2: different tune at a certain point, and it happens kind

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Speaker 2: of in a way that makes me think it might

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Speaker 2: be inorganic, where he'll start putting out videos about how

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Speaker 2: the police aren't that bad and actually, I've never had

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Speaker 2: a bad interaction with the police, And I'm going to

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Speaker 2: move to a white neighborhood because I think it's going

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Speaker 2: to be like it's a lot of really weird. And

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Speaker 2: he gets criticized by other people within the conscious community

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Speaker 2: for this shift. Then he loses his mind over COVID

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Speaker 2: and starts blaming it on the Jews, which is how

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Speaker 2: he gets demonetized and banned from a bunch of stuff,

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Speaker 2: which is why he sues Google, and he loses and

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Speaker 2: gets stuck with a forty grand bill. Most of the

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Speaker 2: videos you'll find about Young Pharaoh today are made by

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Speaker 2: other people. The top showings when I typed his name

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Speaker 2: into Google while writing this are a documentary called The

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Speaker 2: Rise and Fall of Young Pharaoh. Another one is Young

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Speaker 2: Pharaoh at airport, crashes out and punches his girlfriend, and

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Speaker 2: of course Young Pharaoh explains why aliens subducted him seven

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Speaker 2: times part seven.

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Speaker 3: Oh my goodness, Young Pharaoh journey.

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Speaker 2: He has gone in some directions.

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Speaker 3: I could not have guessed what the next word would be.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, whoo. So I know you're all curious why did

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Speaker 2: the alien subduct him? And just to get an idea

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Speaker 2: of this, dude and his vibes. I'm gonna play you

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Speaker 2: a quick clip of him of him explaining this is

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Speaker 2: from part seven of the series on why Alien subducted

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Speaker 2: him seven times.

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Speaker 5: I just grade teacher name is Rosac. I said that

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Speaker 5: to him. I wanted to go down the history like

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Speaker 5: Malcolm X and make history. You know, it's something to me.

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Speaker 5: He just always wanted.

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Speaker 4: To leave a market history. So whatever that is in me,

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Speaker 4: in that spirit, I was connected to that. Maybe that's

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Speaker 4: what they saw. On top of the fact, you know,

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Speaker 4: from what I was told during one of my interactions

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Speaker 4: is that I was super intelligent, so it was easier

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Speaker 4: for me to for me to receive a neurological upgrade,

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Speaker 4: so that way I could like channel or process information

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Speaker 4: faster because I already had the ability to retain it,

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Speaker 4: you know. So it was just it just made sense,

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Speaker 4: you know, to utilize me.

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Speaker 3: Well that checks out.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that seems that all scans to me can't see

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Speaker 2: it here reason why that wouldn't be true. Yeah, so's

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Speaker 2: he's he's he's he seems like he's he's got his

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Speaker 2: shit together, right, So this is his This is the

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Speaker 2: first guy that Nature Boy is really going to Vibe

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Speaker 2: with he reaches out to this dude based on his videos.

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Speaker 2: They become close friends. At least that's how nature Boy

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Speaker 2: describes it. This is not going to be a long

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Speaker 2: lasting friendship. So again, those videos I played were that

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Speaker 2: video that Sophie played was recent. I got to go

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Speaker 2: back to twenty fifteen here, so remember he's not yet

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Speaker 2: obviously a crank. Here he is mostly talking about police

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Speaker 2: brutality and white supremacy and kind of a fairly prominent creator.

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Speaker 2: And when I said, I think there's something sketchy about

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Speaker 2: how he changed suddenly to talking about how he likes

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Speaker 2: the cops and you know, kind of going more right wing.

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Speaker 2: He is invited at one point to speak at Seapack.

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Speaker 2: Now he gets disinvited right before because of the aforementioned

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Speaker 2: anti semitism. But something went on there, right, really yeah.

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Speaker 3: And the anti semitism did it?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah. So back in twenty fifteen, Young Pharaoh's blowing up.

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Speaker 2: He's not so obviously a crank, and Nature Boy grows

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Speaker 2: obsessed with his work and he reaches out online. The

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Speaker 2: two vibe and they become Internet buddies. This is happening

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Speaker 2: right as nature Boy has quit his job at the

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Speaker 2: barber shop in order to lock himself in his room

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Speaker 2: and watch YouTube videos, which he said made him question

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Speaker 2: quote the fabric of reality. His partner at the time,

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Speaker 2: Maisha and the mother of his son, says that he

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Speaker 2: stopped sleeping almost entirely, and describes what he wants watch

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Speaker 2: as conspiracy theory videos. Quote. He rambled daily about America,

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Speaker 2: which he called Babylon and how it was gonna fall

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Speaker 2: and you know, fall of America. Not super wrong in

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Speaker 2: predicting that, maybe, but I don't think he's predicting it

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Speaker 2: for the same reasons. Yeah. So Nature Boy, for his part, says,

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Speaker 2: I started studying what America was, what money was, breaking

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Speaker 2: my reality down to a molecule, and again that all

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Speaker 2: could lead you in a good direction, but it mostly

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Speaker 2: leads him to get very angry about the toilet. He

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Speaker 2: begins again, is evil? Yeah, yeah, again. He starts to

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Speaker 2: become convinced that direct exposure to sunlight makes you smarter

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Speaker 2: because it increases your melanin content. He becomes he's briefly

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Speaker 2: a back to Africa kind of black nationalist right where

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Speaker 2: he's like, we need to return to Africa. But around

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Speaker 2: this time, his older sister Tanya dies and Maisha had

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Speaker 2: been close to her, like his partner had been close

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Speaker 2: to his older sister, And so they go to the

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Speaker 2: funeral and she's kind of surprised because nature was really taciturn.

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Speaker 2: He's like weirdly cold during the visit. But then when

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Speaker 2: they return to Georgia, he goes through this really rapid

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Speaker 2: visible decline in his mental health. The first sign to

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Speaker 2: outsiders is he stops bathing entirely, and he would angrily

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Speaker 2: rant to anyone that you only need to bathe if

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Speaker 2: you eat smelly foods. And he has at this point

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Speaker 2: become a fruitarian, so he doesn't need to wash himself ever.

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Speaker 2: Now there's also some evidence that something diagnosable is happening here.

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Speaker 2: Maisha says that he starts to suffer serious memory lapses,

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Speaker 2: often forgetting what day it is. He stops cutting his hair,

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Speaker 2: which was for him a major red flag. Again, this

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Speaker 2: guy is like a fairly skilled barber. Yeah. In one

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Speaker 2: video talking about this time, he says, I had people like, dude,

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Speaker 2: you good. They would come to drop the money off

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Speaker 2: from the barber shop and see him with his hair

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Speaker 2: all crazy, ranting about conspiracies and Babylon and they were

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Speaker 2: just like, I don't want to hear that, so get it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean all of it is somebody having some

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Speaker 3: sort of mental break, being obsessive, locking yourself away, withdrawing,

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Speaker 3: breaking down your consciousness. It's all alarming.

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Speaker 2: It's all alarming, and you know, not bathing, not bathing. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: people are you know what I mean? Yeah, people are

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Speaker 2: immediately aware, right, Like it's not the kind of thing

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Speaker 2: that's hideable. So Mayishi decides eventually she doesn't want to

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Speaker 2: hear this either, and she takes her kids and the

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Speaker 2: child that they share, dumps his ass and moves to

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Speaker 2: South Carolina and making the only good decision anyone will

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Speaker 2: make over the course of these videos. Nature Boy is

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Speaker 2: okay with this because it gives him more time to

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Speaker 2: study what he has decided will be his next career,

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Speaker 2: which is becoming a YouTube personality.

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Speaker 5: Now.

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Speaker 2: Right after she leaves, Young Pharaoh gets invited to speak

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Speaker 2: on a podcast in New York City, and Nature Boy

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Speaker 2: kind of brute forces his way into like, oh, I'll

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Speaker 2: drive up there and be on it with you, Like

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Speaker 2: we'll hang out, we'll be on the show together, right

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Speaker 2: And as soon as I think Young Pharaoh kind of

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Speaker 2: lets them because they're buds, and Nature Boy at the

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Speaker 2: start of this thing immediately elbows his friend out of

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Speaker 2: the interview basically to go on a rant, and you

347
00:18:05,760 --> 00:18:07,800
Speaker 2: can see the moment here. Again, this is from the

348
00:18:07,840 --> 00:18:10,800
Speaker 2: Hoodharr's video. The original video was deleted long ago, so

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Speaker 2: it's really the only place I have to access this,

350
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Speaker 2: but it's kind of a noteworthy moment to look at.

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Speaker 3: Here.

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Speaker 2: My brother Nature is here for Milana. First, I want

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Speaker 2: to talk to my brother Nature. Why are you so

354
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Speaker 2: infatuated my brother? We're going back to Africa talk to

355
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Speaker 2: the people. The tropical man belongs between the tropic of

356
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Speaker 2: Cancer and the tropic of Capricorn. What does that mean

357
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Speaker 2: if you look on to Matlok. Yeah, so he kind

358
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Speaker 2: of kind of pushes his way in, and you know,

359
00:18:40,400 --> 00:18:42,840
Speaker 2: the other guy seems more interested in him too, and

360
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Speaker 2: this sparks the end of their appearance, right of their friendship, right, yeah,

361
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Speaker 2: because he kind of pushes Young Pharaoh out of this thing.

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Speaker 2: Now they will be in several videos talking about their

363
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Speaker 2: beef because again, this is a YouTube subculture, right, so

364
00:18:56,440 --> 00:18:58,760
Speaker 2: this isn't the end of their relationship, but now it

365
00:18:58,800 --> 00:19:01,600
Speaker 2: is primarily primarily based on them having beef with each

366
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Speaker 2: other beef cells. Right, that's uh, that's that's how all

367
00:19:06,560 --> 00:19:08,120
Speaker 2: of this ship works, right.

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Speaker 5: Now.

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Speaker 2: It's interesting he doesn't this is his first I believe,

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Speaker 2: his first appearance anywhere, right in terms of like social

371
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Speaker 2: media as nature boy. Uh, at least as far as

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Speaker 2: I can tell. And he starts his channel and begins

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Speaker 2: building a following pretty shortly after that. But before he

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00:19:25,160 --> 00:19:27,600
Speaker 2: does so, he goes home, and he continues to spiral

375
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Speaker 2: a bit more right, some of his first content. He's

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Speaker 2: a militant fruitarian, but he's militant in terms of like

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Speaker 2: he hates vegans for eating plants, which he regards as

378
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Speaker 2: being as cruel as hating animals. It's very hard to

379
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Speaker 2: get along with. You can only eat wants to be eaten,

380
00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:48,160
Speaker 2: but like you can't eat like otherwise eat plants because

381
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Speaker 2: that's hurting the plants.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, wild fruitarian is also very hard to take.

383
00:19:54,280 --> 00:19:56,040
Speaker 2: Seriously, very hard to take seriously.

384
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Speaker 3: Don't mean to offend any fruitarians out there.

385
00:19:58,640 --> 00:20:01,879
Speaker 2: But it's it's you're supposed to eat other things. You

386
00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:04,840
Speaker 2: simply are You simply are. There's a number of things.

387
00:20:06,240 --> 00:20:08,840
Speaker 2: Now he starts the nature boy Facebook channel in I

388
00:20:08,840 --> 00:20:11,880
Speaker 2: think late twenty fifteen and his initial videos, so yeah,

389
00:20:11,920 --> 00:20:14,000
Speaker 2: these kind of rambling streams where he will lay out

390
00:20:14,040 --> 00:20:17,360
Speaker 2: his beliefs about not pooping or peeing inside, not bathing,

391
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Speaker 2: eating fruit, and most importantly, he kind of he makes

392
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Speaker 2: a sharp break from this return to Africa stance that

393
00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:28,080
Speaker 2: he has earlier and instead starts advocating that people drop

394
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Speaker 2: out of Babylon entirely and live in tune in nature.

395
00:20:31,600 --> 00:20:33,720
Speaker 2: There's a video. I don't think we need to play it,

396
00:20:33,760 --> 00:20:35,359
Speaker 2: but like where he kind of makes the stance that, like,

397
00:20:35,520 --> 00:20:37,960
Speaker 2: there's too many wars in Africa, so we should all

398
00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:40,040
Speaker 2: go to Central or South America because there's a lot

399
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Speaker 2: of sun exposure there which will make us smarter, but

400
00:20:43,440 --> 00:20:45,760
Speaker 2: it's not as dangerous, right. That's kind of the reason

401
00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:50,240
Speaker 2: why he changes his mind. Now, his videos are not

402
00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:53,800
Speaker 2: highly produced at this stage, but he's good looking and

403
00:20:53,840 --> 00:20:56,280
Speaker 2: he's charismatic, and he starts to draw in thousands and

404
00:20:56,280 --> 00:20:59,159
Speaker 2: then tens of thousands of subscribers. He has an Instagram,

405
00:20:59,200 --> 00:21:01,520
Speaker 2: he has a youtubebe I think he's initially more of

406
00:21:01,560 --> 00:21:04,320
Speaker 2: a Facebook and Instagram person, but his YouTube starts to

407
00:21:04,320 --> 00:21:06,280
Speaker 2: build and they get like one hundred thousand or so

408
00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:10,320
Speaker 2: followers right each which is not he's not a massive star,

409
00:21:10,880 --> 00:21:14,200
Speaker 2: but people are listening, right. And when you've got you know,

410
00:21:14,280 --> 00:21:16,879
Speaker 2: one hundred thousand or so people who are semi regularly

411
00:21:16,920 --> 00:21:19,159
Speaker 2: watching your stuff, you can get some of them to

412
00:21:19,240 --> 00:21:21,360
Speaker 2: send you money, and you can get some of them

413
00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:24,600
Speaker 2: who start to develop a really strong parasocial relationship with you,

414
00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:27,720
Speaker 2: which is what starts to happen here. And he begins

415
00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:30,600
Speaker 2: vowing that he is going to leave the United States

416
00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:33,840
Speaker 2: Babylon to South America, where he is going to start

417
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Speaker 2: a conscious community. And he starts talking to his followers

418
00:21:36,840 --> 00:21:39,440
Speaker 2: like you should follow me. We're going to We're going

419
00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:41,520
Speaker 2: to completely change the world. This is going to be

420
00:21:41,560 --> 00:21:44,680
Speaker 2: the spark of the revolution. You know, I Am going

421
00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:47,959
Speaker 2: to end Babylon by beginning this movement by getting everyone

422
00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:51,919
Speaker 2: to start conscious communities in South America, where again people

423
00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:53,680
Speaker 2: already live, right.

424
00:21:54,280 --> 00:21:55,440
Speaker 3: People already live there.

425
00:21:56,400 --> 00:21:58,919
Speaker 2: It's one of those things where I'm always like, okay,

426
00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:02,199
Speaker 2: but like, if it was as simple as just like

427
00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:04,400
Speaker 2: we all need to go live on the land in

428
00:22:04,600 --> 00:22:07,760
Speaker 2: fucking Peru or whatever, why didn't all of the people

429
00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:11,640
Speaker 2: living on the land in Peru stop anything? Why Why

430
00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:13,880
Speaker 2: didn't that make all of our problem because like maybe

431
00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:16,639
Speaker 2: they're more complicated than just living in Peru.

432
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Speaker 3: I don't know, man, Like, maybe you haven't thought this

433
00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:20,200
Speaker 3: one through.

434
00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:22,320
Speaker 2: Maybe you haven't. Maybe people living in Peru have a

435
00:22:22,359 --> 00:22:24,800
Speaker 2: lot of issues that like it's just it's just very

436
00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:27,919
Speaker 2: all of our problems are more complicated than that. But you, like,

437
00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:31,560
Speaker 2: this is not about really solving problems again, it's going

438
00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:33,840
Speaker 2: to be about being able to take videos of yourself

439
00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:37,440
Speaker 2: in a very pretty place. And speaking of being able

440
00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:39,919
Speaker 2: to take videos of yourself in a very pretty place,

441
00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:45,080
Speaker 2: I don't know how that relates to our advertisers. Here

442
00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:53,480
Speaker 2: you go. Ah, all right, so we're back. We're back

443
00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:57,800
Speaker 2: from the pods, We're back talking. Okay. He decides he's

444
00:22:57,840 --> 00:23:00,680
Speaker 2: going to leave for South America to start a conscient community,

445
00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:03,240
Speaker 2: and the way this ultimately happens is very funny. He

446
00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:05,960
Speaker 2: makes a video announcing the day has come. I am

447
00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:08,440
Speaker 2: going to leave Babylon to live off the land as

448
00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:11,720
Speaker 2: God intended. His initial plan was to go to South America.

449
00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:14,239
Speaker 2: He talks about Peru a lot, but as soon as

450
00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:16,520
Speaker 2: he posts, I'm doing it, I'm making the plans. I'm

451
00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:19,240
Speaker 2: leaving for South America. A fan of his reaches out

452
00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:22,000
Speaker 2: and it's like, hey, my brother lives in Honduras. That's

453
00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:24,880
Speaker 2: where our family's front and he's inherited, like thirty acres

454
00:23:24,880 --> 00:23:27,720
Speaker 2: that you can use. There's two old houses on the

455
00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:29,760
Speaker 2: property that you would have to renovate first to make

456
00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:31,840
Speaker 2: it livable, but like, you can go down there. So

457
00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:34,240
Speaker 2: Nature Boy immediately is like, well, fuck South America, I'm

458
00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:37,919
Speaker 2: meant to be in Honduras, right, And you know, to

459
00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:40,439
Speaker 2: be honest, from what I can tell, I don't have

460
00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:42,800
Speaker 2: detailed knowledge of this land, but from what I can see,

461
00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:45,240
Speaker 2: from what footage exists, this it would have been a

462
00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:48,440
Speaker 2: good setup for someone wanting to try and start, assuming

463
00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:51,720
Speaker 2: someone knew how to do all this. You've got houses

464
00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:54,320
Speaker 2: that are in okay shape, they need some renovating. You've

465
00:23:54,359 --> 00:23:56,760
Speaker 2: got thirty acres. You can support a good number of

466
00:23:56,760 --> 00:23:59,680
Speaker 2: people on thirty acres there. If you knew what.

467
00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:03,120
Speaker 3: It's scenario for a cult leader, you.

468
00:24:03,359 --> 00:24:06,880
Speaker 2: Could do something here, right, if you had any intention

469
00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:09,359
Speaker 2: of actually doing the things you were talking about. So

470
00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:11,680
Speaker 2: he commits. He buys a plane ticket and he tells

471
00:24:11,720 --> 00:24:13,920
Speaker 2: everyone first he's flying down to Florida, and if you

472
00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:16,000
Speaker 2: want to leave Babylon two everyone meet up with me

473
00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:17,960
Speaker 2: in Florida. We're going to do a big meetup and

474
00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:20,080
Speaker 2: we're going to fly down the Honduras together. And he

475
00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:22,480
Speaker 2: shows off his camping gear in a backpack. He's got

476
00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:24,920
Speaker 2: a life straw, which he clearly doesn't know how to use.

477
00:24:25,119 --> 00:24:27,639
Speaker 2: He's got solar camp panels to keep his phone charge.

478
00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:30,600
Speaker 2: He's got a brand new Cabella's backpack, and he tells

479
00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:32,919
Speaker 2: everyone now that I'm going to nature I'm going to

480
00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:34,679
Speaker 2: build a village. I don't know how I'm going to

481
00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:36,359
Speaker 2: do it, but I know it's going to happen because

482
00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:39,199
Speaker 2: I said it's going to happen. And again that's a

483
00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:42,199
Speaker 2: red flag because all of this is very complicated, and

484
00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:44,600
Speaker 2: if people don't have any background experience, they're simply not

485
00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:47,040
Speaker 2: going to succeed, which is indeed what happens. But the

486
00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:49,600
Speaker 2: day of the meetup in Florida comes around and there's

487
00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:52,000
Speaker 2: a very funny video where Nature Boy's like, well, my

488
00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:54,960
Speaker 2: assumption was that nearly all of my followers were young women,

489
00:24:55,040 --> 00:24:57,840
Speaker 2: so I was expecting a bunch of young ladies, but

490
00:24:57,920 --> 00:24:59,840
Speaker 2: the only people who show up are three guys in

491
00:24:59,840 --> 00:25:00,680
Speaker 2: the twenties.

492
00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:03,879
Speaker 3: Ya sign boy, M.

493
00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:08,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's not really shocking. Their names are Key, Olmec

494
00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:11,520
Speaker 2: and Starlight. Now, these are all dudes who are kind

495
00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:13,960
Speaker 2: of in this community. They're interested in not just nature Boy,

496
00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:16,960
Speaker 2: but other stuff. Olemech in particular seems to have some

497
00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:20,000
Speaker 2: like particular like a degree of knowledge about how to

498
00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:23,040
Speaker 2: like farm and stuff and is really interested in trying this.

499
00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:26,280
Speaker 2: Nature Boy is skeptical about all of them because again

500
00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:28,439
Speaker 2: he was hoping they were all young women that he

501
00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:32,480
Speaker 2: could have sex with. But he changes his mind when

502
00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:35,840
Speaker 2: Starlight says he knows Spanish and has twenty thousand dollars,

503
00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:41,080
Speaker 2: Nature Boy immediately tells him, you're useful. Again. No one

504
00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:43,280
Speaker 2: he does not know Spanish. He did not plan on

505
00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:46,600
Speaker 2: having anyone with him wh knew Spanish to create a

506
00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:52,320
Speaker 2: community in choice, not needed, not important. No, Now, at

507
00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:54,840
Speaker 2: this stage, this is not a cult. This is some

508
00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:57,680
Speaker 2: young men who have had their heads filled via YouTube

509
00:25:57,840 --> 00:26:00,520
Speaker 2: with pretty ideas of live and Facebook with pretty ideas

510
00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:02,960
Speaker 2: of living off the land. And you know how easy

511
00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:06,200
Speaker 2: it is. Right the instant they arrive at the actual property,

512
00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:08,080
Speaker 2: they look at this house which had been like the

513
00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:11,000
Speaker 2: landowner's grandmother's house, and so it's filled with her old

514
00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:14,240
Speaker 2: stuff and you know it would take work to clean

515
00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:16,840
Speaker 2: out and fix up, and he decides it's creepy, and

516
00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:19,639
Speaker 2: so they immediately permanently scrap their plans to live in

517
00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:21,960
Speaker 2: the jungle and start a village and instead get a

518
00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:28,359
Speaker 2: hotel using starlights twenty thousand dollars and me just instantly, Oh,

519
00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:29,400
Speaker 2: you got to clean up a house?

520
00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:33,400
Speaker 3: Nah? Nah, you know you were warned you would need

521
00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:35,679
Speaker 3: to do Yeah.

522
00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:39,000
Speaker 2: And like a really minimal Like you're not talking about

523
00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:41,880
Speaker 2: carving a home out of raw land. There are houses

524
00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:44,680
Speaker 2: you can you got a clean up, You got to

525
00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:47,560
Speaker 2: do some work. Yeah, you've got camping gear with you

526
00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:50,560
Speaker 2: and you're not willing to clean out a house. So

527
00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:53,280
Speaker 2: after a little bit of time in a hotel, they

528
00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:56,119
Speaker 2: find a house to rent in Santa Fe, Honduras. In

529
00:26:56,160 --> 00:26:58,520
Speaker 2: a video at the time, nature Boy notes that twenty

530
00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:02,720
Speaker 2: thousand dollars here came in handy, my gosh, So you

531
00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:08,000
Speaker 2: just guy's bunny renting places. Phoenix. The landowner joins them,

532
00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:11,720
Speaker 2: and they start calling themselves ethereans and posting videos of

533
00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:14,320
Speaker 2: people camping in the front yard and calling it an

534
00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:18,560
Speaker 2: intentional community. Again, these people are camping in a city

535
00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:21,280
Speaker 2: in front of the house that they are renting. There's

536
00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:24,000
Speaker 2: a picture Sophie's going to show you. It's just tins

537
00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:26,800
Speaker 2: in a yard. It's just it's simply just tints and

538
00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:30,760
Speaker 2: a fairly well cultivated yard. This is not an intentional community.

539
00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:34,240
Speaker 2: You are doing what like third graders? Do you are

540
00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:35,480
Speaker 2: camping in your yard?

541
00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:37,639
Speaker 3: Looks like making sports.

542
00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:41,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, tense, decently landscaped yard.

543
00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:45,520
Speaker 2: Yes, clearly someone I'm sure it's not Nature boy is

544
00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:47,480
Speaker 2: doing the landscaping.

545
00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:50,320
Speaker 3: Right out of frame is probably like a major road.

546
00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:53,919
Speaker 2: Yes, this is again in a city. Yeah, they're not.

547
00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:57,920
Speaker 2: This is this is the opposite of off grid. Now,

548
00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:00,800
Speaker 2: this is all very silly, but when Nature does next

549
00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:03,520
Speaker 2: is actually pretty cunning, which is, you know, they've got

550
00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:05,840
Speaker 2: this house they're renting, and some people live inside and

551
00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:07,960
Speaker 2: some people camp in the yard, but they will go

552
00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:11,120
Speaker 2: out because Honduras is Honduras, and they'll go to very

553
00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:14,400
Speaker 2: pretty places that are like tourist hotspots where there's waterfalls,

554
00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:17,960
Speaker 2: and they will film themselves bathing underwaterfalls and picking fruit

555
00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:20,439
Speaker 2: from jungle trees and brag about her. They're living this

556
00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:23,720
Speaker 2: perfect back to nature, carefree lifestyle and like drop out

557
00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:26,479
Speaker 2: of Babylon and join us. Look at how nice this is.

558
00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:28,960
Speaker 2: This is our life every day, he says, This is

559
00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:31,440
Speaker 2: not a vacation. This is where we live, and you're

560
00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:34,360
Speaker 2: more than welcome to stay. And again, this isn't where

561
00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:37,439
Speaker 2: you live. You're going to. Honduras is a very beautiful place.

562
00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:41,239
Speaker 2: You are driving for an afternoon to tourist hotspots and

563
00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:45,200
Speaker 2: pretending your life is this like jungle paradise. Again, you

564
00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:46,640
Speaker 2: live in a city in a rental.

565
00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:47,160
Speaker 5: Right.

566
00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:52,880
Speaker 3: Also, I don't know if you are leaving Babylon. You're

567
00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:55,520
Speaker 3: not connected in uploading videos.

568
00:28:55,680 --> 00:29:00,840
Speaker 2: There's like power lines in that photo, Like what are

569
00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:03,960
Speaker 2: we talking about here? Yeah, come on, you have cars,

570
00:29:04,120 --> 00:29:06,720
Speaker 2: You're using gasoline all the time, Like, you have not

571
00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:12,480
Speaker 2: escaped Babylon, you have walked away from omelas. So that said,

572
00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:16,960
Speaker 2: these videos like this spread Facebook love showing people videos

573
00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:20,120
Speaker 2: of like idyllic nature retreats and the like and back

574
00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:23,040
Speaker 2: to the land projects. All this stuff does fairly well,

575
00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:26,320
Speaker 2: and people start coming, lots of them, so many that

576
00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:29,160
Speaker 2: it like the other three guys who had left with him,

577
00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:31,800
Speaker 2: who he calls his warriors, start to feel overwhelmed and

578
00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:34,560
Speaker 2: like we need to stop asking for more people to join, right,

579
00:29:34,840 --> 00:29:38,360
Speaker 2: because there's like dozens and dozens of them. But at

580
00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:41,720
Speaker 2: this point, young women start showing up. Right that's the

581
00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:45,200
Speaker 2: dream right there, that's Nature Boy is like, this is working,

582
00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:51,720
Speaker 2: and you know what, we're polygamists now. So very quickly,

583
00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:55,840
Speaker 2: this turns from some slightly to moderately diluted hippie kids

584
00:29:56,080 --> 00:29:59,320
Speaker 2: camping in a yard to Nature Boy telling multiple women

585
00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:01,520
Speaker 2: that they are now his wives. And he also doesn't

586
00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:05,400
Speaker 2: use the term wife. He calls them directs. They're his directs.

587
00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:08,120
Speaker 2: So you've got a cult terminology starting to form.

588
00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:08,600
Speaker 3: Okay.

589
00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:11,440
Speaker 2: In a video at the time, he explains with polygamy,

590
00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:14,880
Speaker 2: it's just for me being with four female students that

591
00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:18,120
Speaker 2: I'm dealing with very intimately, it's nothing more and nothing

592
00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:21,400
Speaker 2: less than that. Sex for me is me plugging into

593
00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:24,280
Speaker 2: a woman and sending my knowledge like a USB to

594
00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:26,840
Speaker 2: a computer. And when I have sex, I am putting

595
00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:29,880
Speaker 2: fluid in you. Inside the fluid is DNA. On that

596
00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:32,320
Speaker 2: DNA is all the knowledge that I know. And now

597
00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:35,720
Speaker 2: you're getting a direct transfer from my file into your ribosome,

598
00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:38,040
Speaker 2: into your DNA. And if you do that enough, you

599
00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:40,000
Speaker 2: can take me on long enough to the point where

600
00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:40,800
Speaker 2: I'm inside of you.

601
00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:43,360
Speaker 3: Robert I cannot believe you just read that.

602
00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:46,040
Speaker 2: I know, I know. That's one of my That's one

603
00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:48,640
Speaker 2: of my favorite pieces of cult leader nonsense I've come

604
00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:54,200
Speaker 2: across on this jet. Is my dick is a usb unbelievable.

605
00:30:55,520 --> 00:30:57,200
Speaker 3: But also thank you for reading that.

606
00:30:57,600 --> 00:30:59,479
Speaker 2: Beautiful stuff. Beautiful stuff.

607
00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:02,080
Speaker 3: Yes, are they shitting in that yard?

608
00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:06,280
Speaker 2: They're all shitting, Katie. Everyone is shitting in every yard

609
00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:09,200
Speaker 2: in this story. You have to add that they are

610
00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:10,800
Speaker 2: all pooping in the yards.

611
00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:12,800
Speaker 3: It's not that big a yard.

612
00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:16,959
Speaker 2: It's not that presumably burying it. But again, they're all

613
00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:20,400
Speaker 2: shitting in these yards. Now, while he claims to be

614
00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:23,920
Speaker 2: a guru bringing people back in touch with the natural world,

615
00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:27,280
Speaker 2: he very quickly spends the entire twenty grand not just

616
00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:30,040
Speaker 2: on this rental, but primary, according to other people there,

617
00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:33,720
Speaker 2: mostly on dirt pikes and iPads, which he's like, but

618
00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:35,600
Speaker 2: I gave them away to other people in the group,

619
00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:38,680
Speaker 2: you know, I'm He calls himself like a real humanitarian

620
00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:41,000
Speaker 2: for giving away all of these dirt bikes and iPads

621
00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:43,160
Speaker 2: to other people who join. But it's like, it's not

622
00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:48,360
Speaker 2: your money, bro Wild. So that twenty thousand goes quickly,

623
00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:51,760
Speaker 2: and soon everyone's scraping by he's barely managing to cover

624
00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:55,760
Speaker 2: rent in food with allegedly the three thousand dollars a

625
00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:59,640
Speaker 2: month he is allegedly receiving from that guy. But just

626
00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:02,680
Speaker 2: as soon and as things are getting dire, his key,

627
00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:04,960
Speaker 2: one of the other guys who had joined him in Florida,

628
00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:07,680
Speaker 2: has a loved one die and he inherits three hundred

629
00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:11,040
Speaker 2: thousand dollars, and he starts by giving Nature Boys to

630
00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:13,120
Speaker 2: decide like, hey, man, you know, the group really needs

631
00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:15,520
Speaker 2: twenty grand for this project, and he just keeps doing

632
00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:17,520
Speaker 2: that over and over again until he gets all three

633
00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:18,400
Speaker 2: hundred grand, right.

634
00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:21,240
Speaker 3: I feel so bad for them, although he is making

635
00:32:21,280 --> 00:32:21,800
Speaker 3: his choices.

636
00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:24,480
Speaker 2: I've read it. I've watched an interview with that guy

637
00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:26,040
Speaker 2: after all this falls apart where he's like, no, I

638
00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:28,480
Speaker 2: don't regret it. Like he was my teacher, he was

639
00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:31,880
Speaker 2: my guru, okay, man, I don't know. Fuck whatever, bro.

640
00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:36,360
Speaker 2: So they get robbed not long after this in Santa

641
00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:40,400
Speaker 2: Fe because Nature Boy is buying everybody fancy gadgets and computers.

642
00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:42,760
Speaker 2: At least that's what they say. Is like they're in

643
00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:45,120
Speaker 2: the middle of the street and these people take everything

644
00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:47,320
Speaker 2: on them. They take that. I think they get kind

645
00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:49,560
Speaker 2: of unclear, but I think they get into the house

646
00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:53,160
Speaker 2: because they get everyone's like passports, a lot of their stuff, right.

647
00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:53,680
Speaker 3: That's bad.

648
00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:58,920
Speaker 2: I don't know. I have some suspicions that what actually

649
00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:02,000
Speaker 2: happened is that nature Boy was trying to subsidize this

650
00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:06,920
Speaker 2: community by also moving some substances right there. I don't know,

651
00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:09,720
Speaker 2: but the way people describe this makes it sound like, no,

652
00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:12,720
Speaker 2: they were targeted, and maybe it's because they had pissed

653
00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:14,640
Speaker 2: people off. Yeah, And part of why I think this

654
00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:17,320
Speaker 2: is once they are robbed, this was just a mugging,

655
00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:19,640
Speaker 2: they wouldn't do what they did next, which is leave

656
00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:23,600
Speaker 2: immediately the country and leave most of their stuff behind

657
00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:26,600
Speaker 2: in the house, including several vehicles that they own, like

658
00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:30,080
Speaker 2: vans that they own, right Like, they leave a lot

659
00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:32,840
Speaker 2: of money and stuff behind. And that makes sense to

660
00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:34,400
Speaker 2: me if you're like, oh, somebody told you need to

661
00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:36,240
Speaker 2: leave or you're going to get fucking murdered.

662
00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:39,960
Speaker 3: Right right, there's otherwise why wouldn't we try to sell it?

663
00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:42,560
Speaker 2: I just and this is based in part of the

664
00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:44,200
Speaker 2: fact that I spent a lot of time in Central

665
00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:46,600
Speaker 2: America and met a number of people doing things that

666
00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:51,400
Speaker 2: aren't wildly different from this, and it's not uncommon for people,

667
00:33:51,840 --> 00:33:53,800
Speaker 2: especially for the leaders of groups like this, to think,

668
00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:56,120
Speaker 2: well maybe I could move a little molly or something

669
00:33:56,160 --> 00:33:59,280
Speaker 2: like that. And there's already people moving malli in these areas, right,

670
00:33:59,360 --> 00:34:05,640
Speaker 2: you're studying scarier than you, nature boy. So anyway, they flee,

671
00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:08,200
Speaker 2: leaving all of their shit behind, and he convinces everyone

672
00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:11,000
Speaker 2: to move to Peru. But on their way they visit

673
00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:14,080
Speaker 2: Costa Rica. They're like going through Costa Rica and like,

674
00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:17,120
Speaker 2: you know, like everyone who goes to Costa Rica, nature

675
00:34:17,160 --> 00:34:20,120
Speaker 2: boys like, oh, actually this place rips and decides no, no, no,

676
00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:23,480
Speaker 2: we're gonna live in tune with nature here, right, Okay,

677
00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:25,680
Speaker 2: So they camp for a couple of nights and then

678
00:34:25,680 --> 00:34:28,239
Speaker 2: they rent another house because again, none of them know

679
00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:31,799
Speaker 2: how to really like live off the land. It's also,

680
00:34:32,120 --> 00:34:34,319
Speaker 2: Costa Rica is a country. They're not just gonna let

681
00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:37,640
Speaker 2: you set up camp in the jungle randomly and start

682
00:34:37,680 --> 00:34:41,560
Speaker 2: a village.

683
00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:41,840
Speaker 3: The same way. They don't let us do it here.

684
00:34:42,160 --> 00:34:44,560
Speaker 2: The same way. You can't really do that here. You know.

685
00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:49,680
Speaker 2: They continue producing videos from different gorgeous landmarks, and soon

686
00:34:49,880 --> 00:34:52,600
Speaker 2: you know, and people keep joining adjoining, right, you know,

687
00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:55,080
Speaker 2: Costa Rica is even prettier in a lot of ways.

688
00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:57,680
Speaker 2: And so they're posting all of these increasingly gorgeous videos

689
00:34:57,719 --> 00:35:00,960
Speaker 2: about their idyllic lives outside of Babylon. And a young

690
00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:04,400
Speaker 2: woman named Velvet Marquees joins the group.

691
00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:04,759
Speaker 1: Right.

692
00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:09,319
Speaker 2: She is a freshman agricultural student at Tuskegee University. She

693
00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:12,359
Speaker 2: has some relevant experience to actual back to the land shit.

694
00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:16,440
Speaker 2: She had volunteered at a local land use in goos

695
00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:18,959
Speaker 2: and felt like a natural fit for what she thought

696
00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:21,640
Speaker 2: these people were doing. She recalls not even knowing that

697
00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:24,120
Speaker 2: there was like nature Boy was the leader, right because

698
00:35:24,120 --> 00:35:27,560
Speaker 2: the videos they publish, he's not making it all about him.

699
00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:30,360
Speaker 2: He's constantly publishing these stories of other members. So it

700
00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:33,800
Speaker 2: really does sound like to an outsider, there's this wonderful

701
00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:36,920
Speaker 2: community mostly made up of like black people who have

702
00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:40,000
Speaker 2: dropped out of you know, this fucked up country and

703
00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:44,239
Speaker 2: are living this idyllic life in Central America. And so

704
00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:45,799
Speaker 2: she decides to go join them.

705
00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:46,160
Speaker 5: Now.

706
00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:49,680
Speaker 2: When she arrives, she's immediately surprised to realize they are

707
00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:52,760
Speaker 2: not growing food, they're not foraging. They're eating at restaurants

708
00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:55,440
Speaker 2: and driving in cars just like everyone else. But she

709
00:35:55,560 --> 00:35:58,560
Speaker 2: and Olmec kind of hit it off, right, and you know,

710
00:35:58,760 --> 00:36:02,680
Speaker 2: nature Boy agrees that like she can be no Omec's direct.

711
00:36:03,040 --> 00:36:05,400
Speaker 2: But nature boys also not clearly happy with this because

712
00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:08,480
Speaker 2: he wants to be with her, and so he keeps

713
00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:10,279
Speaker 2: like hastling her. I'd be like, is sure you want

714
00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:11,400
Speaker 2: to be with this other guy? Is she want to

715
00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:11,960
Speaker 2: be with olmec?

716
00:36:12,040 --> 00:36:12,200
Speaker 5: Right?

717
00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:16,239
Speaker 2: So that's going to continue to be a thing. Now.

718
00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:19,960
Speaker 2: Around this time, another young woman, Kayla Reid, shows up

719
00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:23,319
Speaker 2: from Canada, and this is a white lady, right, from

720
00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:26,080
Speaker 2: a family that's at least middle class or upper middle class.

721
00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:29,480
Speaker 2: She again gets drawn to this the same way everyone

722
00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:32,200
Speaker 2: else does. It looks pretty, it seems like a great

723
00:36:32,200 --> 00:36:35,560
Speaker 2: way to unplug from this very toxic society. And she's

724
00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:39,040
Speaker 2: useful to nature Boy because you know, he's in general

725
00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:41,200
Speaker 2: trying to get as many young women around him as possible.

726
00:36:41,520 --> 00:36:44,560
Speaker 2: But also she's white, and there's by this point one

727
00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:46,800
Speaker 2: or two other white people who he can put on cameras,

728
00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:50,200
Speaker 2: so in tel potential followers, this isn't a racist thing, right,

729
00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:52,880
Speaker 2: Like we accept everybody. He starts at this point changing

730
00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:55,759
Speaker 2: his tune to like everyone is a shade of brown, right,

731
00:36:55,960 --> 00:36:58,440
Speaker 2: So you know, he softens all this and again to

732
00:36:58,560 --> 00:37:01,520
Speaker 2: try to get more people and more money. Now he's

733
00:37:01,560 --> 00:37:04,239
Speaker 2: also cognizant of the fact that taking a young, rich

734
00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:08,040
Speaker 2: white girl to his cult in Central America could force

735
00:37:08,080 --> 00:37:11,520
Speaker 2: the involvement of international law enforcement. Right, so this is

736
00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:13,400
Speaker 2: a kind of thing that he is away from the beginning.

737
00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:16,560
Speaker 2: There's some upsides and some potential dangers, and soon enough

738
00:37:16,600 --> 00:37:20,040
Speaker 2: those dangers make themselves clear because Kayla didn't tell her

739
00:37:20,040 --> 00:37:23,399
Speaker 2: parents what she was doing. She is an adult, but

740
00:37:23,440 --> 00:37:25,560
Speaker 2: she lied and claimed that she was heading to a

741
00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:29,200
Speaker 2: church camp and then just disappeared and never told anyone

742
00:37:29,239 --> 00:37:29,640
Speaker 2: where she.

743
00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:31,480
Speaker 3: Was, and her parents alarms.

744
00:37:31,719 --> 00:37:34,280
Speaker 2: Her parents make a missing person's complaint, not even because

745
00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:36,520
Speaker 2: they're specifically sketched out by this guy, but because they

746
00:37:36,560 --> 00:37:38,920
Speaker 2: have no idea where she's gone. She goes on a

747
00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:40,919
Speaker 2: church retreat and drops off the face of the world.

748
00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:44,279
Speaker 2: It's a very normal parent thing to do, right, Yeah,

749
00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:48,080
Speaker 2: it should be, yeah, find your child. Yeah, you're gonna

750
00:37:48,080 --> 00:37:50,359
Speaker 2: want to find your kid. And they are looking for her.

751
00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:53,560
Speaker 2: This is an open question for at least weeks until

752
00:37:53,640 --> 00:37:56,880
Speaker 2: someone sees her in an Instagram video with these people

753
00:37:56,960 --> 00:38:01,359
Speaker 2: calling themselves ethereans and is like, oh fuck, I think

754
00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:04,279
Speaker 2: she might have joined the cult. And this is the

755
00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:08,319
Speaker 2: first time that this group. Before this, Nature Boy and

756
00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:11,960
Speaker 2: his followers would have were just a bunch of expats

757
00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:15,439
Speaker 2: bumming around Central America like a lot of people have done. Right,

758
00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:17,759
Speaker 2: This is the first time they start being called a

759
00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:20,840
Speaker 2: cult by the media and they start getting real attention.

760
00:38:21,719 --> 00:38:25,240
Speaker 2: The CBC, which is kind of Canada's NPR, starts reporting

761
00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:27,520
Speaker 2: on these scant few details known about Nature Boy and

762
00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:30,839
Speaker 2: the Atherians, who have now rebranded themselves under the name

763
00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:34,000
Speaker 2: melan Nation. Right, that's kind of the YouTube brand for

764
00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:36,640
Speaker 2: all of their videos. And again, this is kind of

765
00:38:36,680 --> 00:38:38,919
Speaker 2: a reflection of all of his melanin based teachings, which

766
00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:42,399
Speaker 2: have gotten increasingly elaborate. Right, as this is all going on,

767
00:38:42,680 --> 00:38:45,680
Speaker 2: the BBC sends a very irritating young reporter to Costa

768
00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:48,200
Speaker 2: Rica to do a documentary called searching for a Cult

769
00:38:48,239 --> 00:38:51,919
Speaker 2: Leader in the jungles of Costa Rica. I don't love

770
00:38:51,960 --> 00:38:55,000
Speaker 2: this video, but it does capture the cult during a

771
00:38:55,080 --> 00:38:57,719
Speaker 2: unique time. So I'm going to play a clip from

772
00:38:57,719 --> 00:39:01,840
Speaker 2: it which shows nature Boy give his spiel to a

773
00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:02,959
Speaker 2: group of followers.

774
00:39:03,120 --> 00:39:04,880
Speaker 4: Well, we really don't like who's in toilet?

775
00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:06,719
Speaker 3: It's like, what is the thing you hate so much

776
00:39:06,719 --> 00:39:07,480
Speaker 3: about the toilet.

777
00:39:07,640 --> 00:39:10,279
Speaker 2: The soil belongs to the trees, and I'm in an

778
00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:12,640
Speaker 2: abusive relationship with the tree if I'm k not given

779
00:39:12,680 --> 00:39:15,320
Speaker 2: in it back. The community is cold, Melanie. Okay, so

780
00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:18,440
Speaker 2: that's that's at least how followers are kind of describing

781
00:39:18,480 --> 00:39:20,719
Speaker 2: their their teachings at this point to a guy from

782
00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:25,239
Speaker 2: the BBC. Now he does this. BBC guy does a

783
00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:27,760
Speaker 2: short documentary just on the cult and a slightly longer

784
00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:30,800
Speaker 2: one reporting on several different kind of utopian living projects

785
00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:33,319
Speaker 2: in Costa Rica. He spends a lot of his time

786
00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:36,400
Speaker 2: online flirting with that Canadian lady in a way that

787
00:39:36,440 --> 00:39:40,799
Speaker 2: makes me slightly uncomfortable, or at least that's my interpretation.

788
00:39:40,960 --> 00:39:44,000
Speaker 2: Watch it, you may feel differently. At one point, he

789
00:39:44,080 --> 00:39:46,399
Speaker 2: asks her if Milanation is a cult, and she gives

790
00:39:46,440 --> 00:39:48,680
Speaker 2: him an answer that was clearly scripted and drilled into

791
00:39:48,719 --> 00:39:51,360
Speaker 2: her head by nature. Boy, Panna is a cult. Like

792
00:39:51,719 --> 00:39:54,200
Speaker 2: the US as a cult, everyone is a part of

793
00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:54,600
Speaker 2: a cult.

794
00:39:55,160 --> 00:39:58,240
Speaker 5: Culture is a group of people who have similar beliefs.

795
00:39:58,640 --> 00:40:00,680
Speaker 2: Now, I say that he clearly said that because a

796
00:40:00,680 --> 00:40:02,839
Speaker 2: bunch of his videos he uses the exact line that,

797
00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:05,480
Speaker 2: like well, the United States is a cult. And you know,

798
00:40:05,560 --> 00:40:08,719
Speaker 2: there's a lot to be said about cultic aspects of nationalism,

799
00:40:09,160 --> 00:40:11,520
Speaker 2: but as a general rule, when you are saying that,

800
00:40:11,560 --> 00:40:13,440
Speaker 2: you're saying that to be like, so it's fine for

801
00:40:13,520 --> 00:40:15,759
Speaker 2: me to have a cult too, as opposed to we

802
00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:16,840
Speaker 2: shouldn't have cults.

803
00:40:16,920 --> 00:40:21,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, thank slippery here. Also it's like everything's a cult culture.

804
00:40:21,719 --> 00:40:25,600
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, yeah, not quite that's not quite true. Are

805
00:40:25,600 --> 00:40:28,680
Speaker 2: there culture dynamics that we're talking about here to nationalism?

806
00:40:28,719 --> 00:40:32,360
Speaker 2: Does nationalism make people vulnerable to cults? Sure? That doesn't

807
00:40:32,360 --> 00:40:36,399
Speaker 2: mean you get to make a cult, right, So at

808
00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:37,920
Speaker 2: this point, I think we've got what i'd call like

809
00:40:37,960 --> 00:40:40,560
Speaker 2: a hybrid cult. Right nature Boy is starting to exert

810
00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:43,440
Speaker 2: more and more control over members. It becomes a higher

811
00:40:43,480 --> 00:40:46,520
Speaker 2: control group than it had been. But also a lot

812
00:40:46,560 --> 00:40:49,120
Speaker 2: of people start leaving, right And there's not he's not

813
00:40:49,120 --> 00:40:51,040
Speaker 2: does that. This is not like the Church of Scientology

814
00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:53,239
Speaker 2: where he's got like a wing of folks dedicated to

815
00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:56,440
Speaker 2: going after people who leave. And most of the people

816
00:40:56,440 --> 00:40:59,319
Speaker 2: who come for a while are not crazy, they're not

817
00:40:59,600 --> 00:41:02,760
Speaker 2: super dedicated. A number of them in that are interviewed

818
00:41:02,760 --> 00:41:05,719
Speaker 2: in that BBC documentary have left and start their own

819
00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:08,200
Speaker 2: land projects because they're like, well, Costa Rica rips and

820
00:41:08,239 --> 00:41:10,000
Speaker 2: I actually want a farm or something like that.

821
00:41:10,120 --> 00:41:12,560
Speaker 3: Right, these people aren't actually doing the thing I wanted to.

822
00:41:12,640 --> 00:41:14,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, oh this was bullshit. But this place is

823
00:41:14,680 --> 00:41:18,000
Speaker 2: pretty rad, you know. Now we get some good context

824
00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:20,040
Speaker 2: on the kind of people drawn to Nature Boy in

825
00:41:20,080 --> 00:41:23,359
Speaker 2: that BBC documentary, which talks to a former member named Ave,

826
00:41:23,719 --> 00:41:25,920
Speaker 2: who got involved because she had a kid and she

827
00:41:25,960 --> 00:41:27,759
Speaker 2: wanted to raise this kid in a place that wasn't

828
00:41:27,800 --> 00:41:30,200
Speaker 2: the US because quote, the race thing was just really

829
00:41:30,200 --> 00:41:33,279
Speaker 2: out of control. Ave is a black woman living in

830
00:41:33,320 --> 00:41:35,640
Speaker 2: Texas and says, I just didn't think a child would

831
00:41:35,680 --> 00:41:39,839
Speaker 2: be able to develop there. And I get it. And

832
00:41:39,880 --> 00:41:42,120
Speaker 2: what's what's so interesting about Nature Boy is he's very

833
00:41:42,200 --> 00:41:44,960
Speaker 2: much like doing a partial Jim Jones, Like he is

834
00:41:45,080 --> 00:41:48,879
Speaker 2: recruiting from marginalized people who see how fucked up life

835
00:41:48,880 --> 00:41:51,040
Speaker 2: in the US is and are open to dropping out

836
00:41:51,080 --> 00:41:54,600
Speaker 2: of society to find a better life. But Jones, you know,

837
00:41:54,680 --> 00:41:58,719
Speaker 2: before getting everyone killed, they do start like a town, right,

838
00:41:58,840 --> 00:42:02,160
Speaker 2: like they've got there. There's a lot of infrastructure they

839
00:42:02,200 --> 00:42:02,960
Speaker 2: put together, a.

840
00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:05,120
Speaker 3: Lot more thought put into that.

841
00:42:05,719 --> 00:42:08,279
Speaker 2: Jim pretty they put a lot of work into it

842
00:42:08,600 --> 00:42:10,919
Speaker 2: and Jim Jones is not a lazy man.

843
00:42:11,120 --> 00:42:11,319
Speaker 3: Right.

844
00:42:12,200 --> 00:42:14,560
Speaker 2: What's interesting to me is nature Boy talks a lot

845
00:42:14,600 --> 00:42:18,120
Speaker 2: of Jim joneshit but he is so lazy and he

846
00:42:18,239 --> 00:42:21,799
Speaker 2: completely refuses to use any of the money. And they

847
00:42:21,840 --> 00:42:23,520
Speaker 2: have a lot at one point enough that they could

848
00:42:23,520 --> 00:42:27,600
Speaker 2: have started something and potentially, with the knowledge, made an

849
00:42:27,680 --> 00:42:31,880
Speaker 2: actual sustaining project, but he has He is almost violently

850
00:42:31,920 --> 00:42:35,960
Speaker 2: opposed to the concept of farming, right. Yeah, obsessively talks

851
00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:38,120
Speaker 2: about being back to the nature. He hates the idea

852
00:42:38,120 --> 00:42:39,760
Speaker 2: of actually living off the land.

853
00:42:40,160 --> 00:42:45,239
Speaker 3: Well, I think we've seen nature Boy throughout his life. Yeah,

854
00:42:45,280 --> 00:42:47,720
Speaker 3: start a lot of things and quit them. He didn't

855
00:42:47,880 --> 00:42:51,000
Speaker 3: like the amount of work that the barber shop required.

856
00:42:51,320 --> 00:42:54,799
Speaker 3: It's a you know, looking for an easy way to

857
00:42:54,840 --> 00:42:58,279
Speaker 3: make money and fuck women. You can say fuck women,

858
00:42:58,360 --> 00:42:58,879
Speaker 3: I think so.

859
00:42:59,160 --> 00:43:02,520
Speaker 2: Yes, And he's very it's just such a lazy And

860
00:43:02,680 --> 00:43:05,239
Speaker 2: there's a couple of stories from former members who like

861
00:43:05,320 --> 00:43:07,160
Speaker 2: show up and he tells everyone that, like, you know,

862
00:43:07,200 --> 00:43:09,280
Speaker 2: we only go to the bathroom outside, and they're like, okay,

863
00:43:09,360 --> 00:43:11,879
Speaker 2: so we're like making our own manure to like grow things,

864
00:43:11,920 --> 00:43:14,960
Speaker 2: and he says, absolutely not. Under no circumstances do we

865
00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:18,359
Speaker 2: ever do anything like he even tells one person, why

866
00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:21,160
Speaker 2: would we grow our own food? There's markets. It's like

867
00:43:21,520 --> 00:43:25,080
Speaker 2: you are literally talking and preaching about the apocalypse, my dude,

868
00:43:25,120 --> 00:43:29,360
Speaker 2: Like yeah, fascinating, fascinating cult. For that reason, now this

869
00:43:29,400 --> 00:43:31,759
Speaker 2: doesn't do well. Again, a lot of people realize this

870
00:43:31,840 --> 00:43:35,480
Speaker 2: is bullshit. Ave who has a kid leaves right away, right,

871
00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:38,239
Speaker 2: But it goes off like gangbusters among people who are

872
00:43:38,280 --> 00:43:41,279
Speaker 2: deeply insecure or who are the kind of narcissistic dumb

873
00:43:41,280 --> 00:43:44,480
Speaker 2: fucks who adopt countercultural beliefs not because they have real

874
00:43:44,520 --> 00:43:47,600
Speaker 2: criticisms of society, but because they want to feel special.

875
00:43:48,040 --> 00:43:50,520
Speaker 2: And this clip from that BBC documentary of two of

876
00:43:50,520 --> 00:43:54,240
Speaker 2: his followers taking this fucking reporter to a hot springs

877
00:43:54,560 --> 00:43:58,279
Speaker 2: makes really the narciss system in this belief system, the

878
00:43:58,360 --> 00:44:01,080
Speaker 2: narcissism in this belief system incredibly evident.

879
00:44:01,320 --> 00:44:02,480
Speaker 4: Are you how old are you?

880
00:44:02,520 --> 00:44:02,840
Speaker 2: Guys?

881
00:44:03,280 --> 00:44:05,239
Speaker 4: I'm actually immortal. I don't die.

882
00:44:05,640 --> 00:44:17,600
Speaker 2: Okay, you never die, Alberts says, define, yeah, living a

883
00:44:17,719 --> 00:44:21,640
Speaker 2: righteous path, living from the righteous path, then the narrow path.

884
00:44:22,280 --> 00:44:27,160
Speaker 3: Would you say that your positive melanation or are you.

885
00:44:27,400 --> 00:44:28,640
Speaker 2: Is this like a big movement?

886
00:44:28,760 --> 00:44:30,160
Speaker 3: Do you think it's going to it's going to be

887
00:44:30,200 --> 00:44:32,279
Speaker 3: like you know, like do you get from all around

888
00:44:32,320 --> 00:44:33,840
Speaker 3: the world, like are coming together?

889
00:44:34,440 --> 00:44:38,799
Speaker 2: Okay, so again the whole I'm never going to die

890
00:44:39,000 --> 00:44:43,040
Speaker 2: Albert Einstein said, so thig Like it's it's again, it's

891
00:44:43,040 --> 00:44:46,799
Speaker 2: so lazy. These people like are not actually, this is

892
00:44:46,840 --> 00:44:49,600
Speaker 2: not an ideology. These people have not are not thinking

893
00:44:49,640 --> 00:44:53,439
Speaker 2: about anything. They are casually ingesting YouTube videos with pretty things,

894
00:44:53,440 --> 00:44:55,239
Speaker 2: and they just want to bum around and not do

895
00:44:55,360 --> 00:44:58,880
Speaker 2: anything all the time, right, Like, there's no real belief here.

896
00:44:58,920 --> 00:45:01,880
Speaker 2: There's no commitment to overthrowing an unjust system, there's no

897
00:45:01,880 --> 00:45:05,719
Speaker 2: commitment to learning how to survive. It's just it's so

898
00:45:06,360 --> 00:45:09,719
Speaker 2: it's such a fundamentally narcissistic thing. So I guess I'm

899
00:45:09,760 --> 00:45:12,680
Speaker 2: not surprised this is a cult that forms through Facebook

900
00:45:12,680 --> 00:45:14,879
Speaker 2: and Instagram, Right, yeah.

901
00:45:14,760 --> 00:45:17,280
Speaker 3: That's it's attracting that type of person. It's also attracting

902
00:45:17,320 --> 00:45:21,319
Speaker 3: somebody that's potentially thinking, well, I want to be in

903
00:45:21,320 --> 00:45:22,120
Speaker 3: those videos.

904
00:45:22,160 --> 00:45:27,400
Speaker 2: I want to have hang yeah exactly, the waterfall stuff.

905
00:45:28,440 --> 00:45:32,799
Speaker 2: It's it's very It's so I keep thinking back to

906
00:45:32,800 --> 00:45:38,120
Speaker 2: like scientology, evil stupid, not a shallow belief system, deep

907
00:45:38,160 --> 00:45:43,080
Speaker 2: and labyrinthine and complex. Right the Zizyan So we've talked about. Yes,

908
00:45:43,160 --> 00:45:46,200
Speaker 2: is everything silly nonsense? Is it all dumb as hell? Yes,

909
00:45:46,280 --> 00:45:49,399
Speaker 2: but it's complicated and there's a lot of effort being

910
00:45:49,440 --> 00:45:53,960
Speaker 2: put into this silly, crazy belief system, right everything. Every

911
00:45:54,000 --> 00:45:57,360
Speaker 2: as I the more I learn about these fucking you know, melanation,

912
00:45:57,480 --> 00:45:59,279
Speaker 2: the ethereans, all the different things that call themselves and

913
00:45:59,320 --> 00:46:01,719
Speaker 2: oh, oh my god, therese was so fucking lazy, like.

914
00:46:02,600 --> 00:46:05,480
Speaker 3: You don't actually there's no actual ideology here.

915
00:46:06,320 --> 00:46:10,399
Speaker 2: No, it's just a hot dude, Instagram and toilet. Other

916
00:46:10,480 --> 00:46:14,040
Speaker 2: than not pooping in a toilet, it's such like a man.

917
00:46:15,000 --> 00:46:17,319
Speaker 2: I guess I'm appreciating all the cults that put in

918
00:46:17,360 --> 00:46:19,120
Speaker 2: the actual hours, right.

919
00:46:19,080 --> 00:46:21,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, put put in the word good old fashion.

920
00:46:21,560 --> 00:46:25,120
Speaker 2: Missed the good old fashioned cult? God you know that when.

921
00:46:26,840 --> 00:46:28,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's really selling me something.

922
00:46:28,560 --> 00:46:31,120
Speaker 2: The colts these days so lazy.

923
00:46:32,080 --> 00:46:33,440
Speaker 3: It's the problem with the Internet.

924
00:46:33,680 --> 00:46:36,160
Speaker 2: Uh huh, it's yeah, it's made everything too easy, right,

925
00:46:36,200 --> 00:46:38,560
Speaker 2: you don't have to really work because the scale of

926
00:46:38,600 --> 00:46:41,120
Speaker 2: social media means you can just find some people who

927
00:46:41,160 --> 00:46:45,600
Speaker 2: will buy into anything. Everything's falling apart because of the Internet,

928
00:46:46,400 --> 00:46:51,279
Speaker 2: all right, Sorry. Eventually, the heat from Canadian authorities over

929
00:46:51,320 --> 00:46:53,359
Speaker 2: this this lady staying with them gets to be too much,

930
00:46:53,440 --> 00:46:56,080
Speaker 2: and Nature Boy convinces Jasper Or She also goes by

931
00:46:56,080 --> 00:46:59,239
Speaker 2: sun Ray or whatever to return home. She describes it

932
00:46:59,280 --> 00:47:01,920
Speaker 2: as her making a choice to protect everyone by leaving.

933
00:47:02,320 --> 00:47:04,920
Speaker 2: There is a video of him very clearly talking her

934
00:47:04,920 --> 00:47:07,160
Speaker 2: into it. I think he just didn't have much use

935
00:47:07,200 --> 00:47:09,200
Speaker 2: to her for her and like he wasn't into her

936
00:47:09,239 --> 00:47:13,480
Speaker 2: and decided like this is more trouble than it's worth. Right, Yeah, Now,

937
00:47:13,480 --> 00:47:16,279
Speaker 2: he has rapidly developed more narcissistic cult leader traits by

938
00:47:16,280 --> 00:47:18,799
Speaker 2: this point. One of his most common refrains is what

939
00:47:18,840 --> 00:47:21,440
Speaker 2: I'm doing is beyond Martin Luther King Junior. It's beyond

940
00:47:21,440 --> 00:47:24,120
Speaker 2: Malcolm X. It's beyond all of that. And this is

941
00:47:24,120 --> 00:47:27,439
Speaker 2: something his followers will repeatedly like say, he's beyond Martin

942
00:47:27,480 --> 00:47:30,319
Speaker 2: Luther King, is beyond Malcolm X. And like, again, both

943
00:47:30,360 --> 00:47:33,760
Speaker 2: of those guys a lot of work, very complicated, large

944
00:47:33,880 --> 00:47:37,560
Speaker 2: organizations they ran that made serious impacts on the world,

945
00:47:38,200 --> 00:47:43,520
Speaker 2: not just hanging out under waterfalls anyway. Initially, he discourages

946
00:47:43,560 --> 00:47:46,120
Speaker 2: his directs from getting pregnant, telling them that if they

947
00:47:46,120 --> 00:47:48,040
Speaker 2: do get pregnant, it's a sign that they have been

948
00:47:48,080 --> 00:47:51,600
Speaker 2: cursed by God. When a young woman named Pocahontas joins

949
00:47:51,600 --> 00:47:53,960
Speaker 2: the group and he makes her his direct He immediately

950
00:47:54,000 --> 00:47:56,040
Speaker 2: impregnates her and kicks her out of the group a

951
00:47:56,120 --> 00:48:00,640
Speaker 2: week later. So that's good now, he does eventually his

952
00:48:00,840 --> 00:48:04,360
Speaker 2: opinion on this right. He has more kids with several

953
00:48:04,360 --> 00:48:07,840
Speaker 2: of his followers. His kiddos. Cyrus visits him and spends

954
00:48:07,880 --> 00:48:12,560
Speaker 2: several months living with the cult in Central America. So

955
00:48:12,600 --> 00:48:14,759
Speaker 2: that's not great. And there's some videos of him like

956
00:48:14,840 --> 00:48:17,759
Speaker 2: yelling at this kid, making him like crawl around on

957
00:48:17,800 --> 00:48:20,160
Speaker 2: the ground, and he's like complaining that it hurts, and

958
00:48:21,480 --> 00:48:23,439
Speaker 2: nature boy is like, you know, you just need to

959
00:48:23,440 --> 00:48:26,040
Speaker 2: toughen up. You have to do it. He also, near

960
00:48:26,040 --> 00:48:29,040
Speaker 2: the end of twenty seventeen, posts an important video which

961
00:48:29,080 --> 00:48:32,040
Speaker 2: is described in that Rolling Stone article. I wanted my

962
00:48:32,080 --> 00:48:33,759
Speaker 2: son to be so pure that he'd never know he

963
00:48:33,840 --> 00:48:36,439
Speaker 2: was naked, says Bishop, who has four children. I take

964
00:48:36,480 --> 00:48:38,640
Speaker 2: baths with my kids. I'm naked with my kids. I

965
00:48:38,680 --> 00:48:41,120
Speaker 2: have sex in front of my kids. My son be breastfeeding,

966
00:48:41,160 --> 00:48:43,279
Speaker 2: I'd be making love to his mom. That's how I

967
00:48:43,280 --> 00:48:45,440
Speaker 2: get down around kids. He goes on like this for

968
00:48:45,440 --> 00:48:47,480
Speaker 2: a minute or so. My son, I have sex with

969
00:48:47,520 --> 00:48:49,759
Speaker 2: his mom, after I'm done, I'm laying there chilling. He

970
00:48:49,800 --> 00:48:52,319
Speaker 2: grabs my penis. He's playing with my penis. I let

971
00:48:52,320 --> 00:48:55,560
Speaker 2: that happen. This is what really draws a lot of

972
00:48:55,640 --> 00:48:58,640
Speaker 2: ironline because people start accusing him of being a pedophile.

973
00:48:58,800 --> 00:49:01,920
Speaker 2: And that's not an unreasonable thing to draw from that.

974
00:49:02,520 --> 00:49:05,680
Speaker 3: No, it's not at all. And for someone who has

975
00:49:05,960 --> 00:49:10,520
Speaker 3: talked about sexual abuse in his own childhood, you would

976
00:49:10,600 --> 00:49:14,320
Speaker 3: think there'd be some connection about how destructive and confusing

977
00:49:14,360 --> 00:49:14,880
Speaker 3: that would be.

978
00:49:15,239 --> 00:49:18,560
Speaker 2: Well, and it's this kind of thing where like, is

979
00:49:18,600 --> 00:49:23,040
Speaker 2: it bad for kids to be around communities of people

980
00:49:23,040 --> 00:49:25,840
Speaker 2: who are naked? Like, No, there's nothing inherently bad or

981
00:49:25,920 --> 00:49:28,360
Speaker 2: sexual about being naked. Depending on how you do it,

982
00:49:28,160 --> 00:49:31,680
Speaker 2: is it bad for people? Like most people have been

983
00:49:31,760 --> 00:49:34,240
Speaker 2: naked a significant amount of their lives in the history

984
00:49:34,239 --> 00:49:38,759
Speaker 2: of the human race, It's not inherently bad for people. Likewise,

985
00:49:38,880 --> 00:49:40,560
Speaker 2: is it bad for kids to be aware that their

986
00:49:40,600 --> 00:49:43,800
Speaker 2: parents are having sex? Again, most human beings throughout history

987
00:49:43,840 --> 00:49:46,759
Speaker 2: were broadly aware of the fact that adults around them

988
00:49:46,800 --> 00:49:49,760
Speaker 2: had sex because you had a one room shack everyone

989
00:49:49,840 --> 00:49:52,160
Speaker 2: lived in, or you were all out basically camping all

990
00:49:52,200 --> 00:49:55,200
Speaker 2: the time. Right, None of that is inherently toxic. Should

991
00:49:55,200 --> 00:49:59,040
Speaker 2: your kid be playing with your dick? No? No, Or

992
00:49:59,040 --> 00:50:01,040
Speaker 2: do you need to be nope?

993
00:50:01,640 --> 00:50:04,720
Speaker 3: Does your kidney to be breastfeeding while you have sex?

994
00:50:05,440 --> 00:50:08,759
Speaker 2: Oh? Not really necessary. Then it's a kink. Then you've

995
00:50:08,800 --> 00:50:10,160
Speaker 2: got a weird thing going on.

996
00:50:10,719 --> 00:50:12,480
Speaker 3: And I feel so bad for the woman in that

997
00:50:12,520 --> 00:50:18,200
Speaker 3: situation who probably feels a little powerless because it's his

998
00:50:18,480 --> 00:50:19,120
Speaker 3: cold weird.

999
00:50:19,560 --> 00:50:22,560
Speaker 2: Yes, weird, and he's like telling you, like, no, this

1000
00:50:22,640 --> 00:50:24,680
Speaker 2: is again, this is the thing that we're doing that's

1001
00:50:24,719 --> 00:50:27,239
Speaker 2: destroying Babylon. No, it's not. You've just got like a

1002
00:50:27,280 --> 00:50:29,800
Speaker 2: bunch of weird kinks, most of which you're around pooping.

1003
00:50:30,360 --> 00:50:34,120
Speaker 2: He takes videos of his son pooping. My god, it's weird.

1004
00:50:35,000 --> 00:50:35,360
Speaker 3: Uh.

1005
00:50:35,400 --> 00:50:37,880
Speaker 2: This is what draws the ire of the Costa Rican government,

1006
00:50:38,080 --> 00:50:41,120
Speaker 2: the governor of the province or whatever that his cult

1007
00:50:41,200 --> 00:50:44,080
Speaker 2: is camped out at. Actually is like there's enough of

1008
00:50:44,320 --> 00:50:47,880
Speaker 2: a local uproar about this guy because the stuff online

1009
00:50:47,920 --> 00:50:49,960
Speaker 2: goes that viral that like people in Costa Rica are

1010
00:50:50,000 --> 00:50:52,319
Speaker 2: like talking to the government being like, what do we

1011
00:50:52,360 --> 00:50:55,160
Speaker 2: really want this fucking weird this.

1012
00:50:55,239 --> 00:50:57,520
Speaker 3: Colt pops up in my neighborhood. I don't know, I

1013
00:50:57,520 --> 00:50:58,200
Speaker 3: don't want to know.

1014
00:50:58,320 --> 00:51:01,400
Speaker 2: I don't want to here, but like ah, so the

1015
00:51:01,480 --> 00:51:04,040
Speaker 2: governor has a it schedules a meeting with Nature Boy,

1016
00:51:04,040 --> 00:51:06,400
Speaker 2: and Nature Boy put posts some videos about obviously, you

1017
00:51:06,440 --> 00:51:08,319
Speaker 2: know this is all taken out of context. I'm not

1018
00:51:08,360 --> 00:51:10,960
Speaker 2: doing anything wrong. I'm happy to have a meeting with

1019
00:51:11,040 --> 00:51:13,200
Speaker 2: this guy and show him that nothing we're doing is

1020
00:51:13,239 --> 00:51:15,680
Speaker 2: what wrong or weird or bad. And then the day

1021
00:51:15,719 --> 00:51:18,040
Speaker 2: of the meeting, he has his followers load everything they

1022
00:51:18,080 --> 00:51:21,359
Speaker 2: own into vans and flee the country, or flee flee

1023
00:51:21,400 --> 00:51:25,360
Speaker 2: the state. Right, they don't quite leave Costa Rica, and

1024
00:51:25,440 --> 00:51:28,240
Speaker 2: in fact, in October they get deported after being detained

1025
00:51:28,239 --> 00:51:32,000
Speaker 2: at a checkpoint. Most members are found to lack passports

1026
00:51:32,160 --> 00:51:34,839
Speaker 2: since a lot of them have been robbed, many had

1027
00:51:34,880 --> 00:51:38,560
Speaker 2: overstayed their visas. Costa Rican officials were clearly kind of

1028
00:51:38,600 --> 00:51:40,680
Speaker 2: just trying to figure out what was happening because there's

1029
00:51:40,719 --> 00:51:44,560
Speaker 2: these vans full of like mostly Americans who don't have

1030
00:51:44,640 --> 00:51:47,960
Speaker 2: a lot of IDs or have overstayed their visas, and

1031
00:51:48,080 --> 00:51:51,200
Speaker 2: Nature Boy immediately like they detain them, and Nature Boy

1032
00:51:51,239 --> 00:51:54,640
Speaker 2: goes live on Facebook from the police barracks and claims

1033
00:51:54,480 --> 00:51:57,360
Speaker 2: he's being murdered by a government, just like Malcolm X

1034
00:51:57,440 --> 00:52:00,760
Speaker 2: or MLK, and again neither of them were by Costa

1035
00:52:00,840 --> 00:52:06,239
Speaker 2: Rican immigration authorities. Quote per Rolling Stone, we're live on

1036
00:52:06,239 --> 00:52:09,080
Speaker 2: Facebook right now. He shouted, everybody bring their cameras out,

1037
00:52:09,080 --> 00:52:11,120
Speaker 2: make sure they record this, because if we're gonna die,

1038
00:52:11,120 --> 00:52:14,000
Speaker 2: we're gonna die. Just like this is going down. An

1039
00:52:14,040 --> 00:52:16,720
Speaker 2: immigration officer boarded the bus and offered to let everyone

1040
00:52:16,800 --> 00:52:19,840
Speaker 2: go once they signed some paperwork. We're not signing nothing,

1041
00:52:19,880 --> 00:52:22,680
Speaker 2: Bishop yelled, we're standing up for humanity. If you don't

1042
00:52:22,680 --> 00:52:25,520
Speaker 2: stand for something, you're gonna fall for anything. Bishop insisted

1043
00:52:25,520 --> 00:52:27,480
Speaker 2: they wouldn't get off the bus. You're going to have

1044
00:52:27,520 --> 00:52:32,399
Speaker 2: to use violence. Moments later, police did some piece of shit.

1045
00:52:33,840 --> 00:52:35,600
Speaker 2: It's just like the cops are even like we'll let

1046
00:52:35,600 --> 00:52:37,399
Speaker 2: you go, you got to like sign some things saying

1047
00:52:37,400 --> 00:52:39,400
Speaker 2: you know you have to leave that like you can't

1048
00:52:39,400 --> 00:52:40,280
Speaker 2: stay in coach nobody.

1049
00:52:40,280 --> 00:52:41,120
Speaker 3: He's putting on a show.

1050
00:52:41,239 --> 00:52:43,560
Speaker 2: He's putting on a show, right And like there's this

1051
00:52:43,680 --> 00:52:46,040
Speaker 2: audio and it sounds bad like the cops beat them up.

1052
00:52:46,080 --> 00:52:48,399
Speaker 2: But like again you had a you head an out,

1053
00:52:48,920 --> 00:52:52,680
Speaker 2: like you're choosing now to occupy a police bus for

1054
00:52:52,760 --> 00:52:57,560
Speaker 2: no reason. I don't know. It's not the kind of

1055
00:52:57,560 --> 00:53:01,040
Speaker 2: civil disobedience that I really again, is there a massive

1056
00:53:01,080 --> 00:53:05,280
Speaker 2: ethical issue in Costa Rica putting American travelers on buses.

1057
00:53:05,560 --> 00:53:07,400
Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't think so. I think you

1058
00:53:07,440 --> 00:53:08,799
Speaker 2: had an out and you didn't take it.

1059
00:53:08,840 --> 00:53:10,440
Speaker 3: I think it sounds like you had an out.

1060
00:53:10,719 --> 00:53:13,800
Speaker 2: Speaking of people who have outs, you can break free

1061
00:53:13,960 --> 00:53:18,680
Speaker 2: of our evil, abusive society by participating in it. Be

1062
00:53:18,760 --> 00:53:24,879
Speaker 2: a purchasing product. I don't know. Here's some ads. Uh,

1063
00:53:26,520 --> 00:53:30,839
Speaker 2: we're back, So we're so back. So this whole confrontation,

1064
00:53:30,960 --> 00:53:33,640
Speaker 2: which was totally avoidable and stupid, causes nature Boy to

1065
00:53:33,680 --> 00:53:36,759
Speaker 2: go viral in the consciousness community subculture. Yet again. They

1066
00:53:36,760 --> 00:53:39,239
Speaker 2: spend several months back in the US pooping in the

1067
00:53:39,239 --> 00:53:43,399
Speaker 2: backyards of airbnbs. Now, not all of nature Boy's followers leave,

1068
00:53:43,800 --> 00:53:46,320
Speaker 2: you know, as soon as they get into his content

1069
00:53:46,360 --> 00:53:50,239
Speaker 2: to join immediately. One guy, David Armstead around this time,

1070
00:53:50,239 --> 00:53:53,160
Speaker 2: who's a musician and an audio engineer, gets into his

1071
00:53:53,239 --> 00:53:56,280
Speaker 2: YouTube content and spends a year or so not showering

1072
00:53:56,320 --> 00:53:58,840
Speaker 2: and pooping in the woods of Maryland before he finally

1073
00:53:58,920 --> 00:54:02,279
Speaker 2: leaves to join them. This is when they're back in

1074
00:54:02,320 --> 00:54:05,279
Speaker 2: the US. Yeah, just preparing, he explained his mind state

1075
00:54:05,320 --> 00:54:07,560
Speaker 2: to Rolling Stone. If I didn't change the way I

1076
00:54:07,600 --> 00:54:09,319
Speaker 2: was living. I was going to suffer some kind of

1077
00:54:09,360 --> 00:54:11,320
Speaker 2: consequence from the universe, so I left in the middle

1078
00:54:11,320 --> 00:54:14,560
Speaker 2: of the night and didn't tell anybody. Now, Okay, When

1079
00:54:14,560 --> 00:54:16,759
Speaker 2: he joins the group, he does it alongside a couple

1080
00:54:16,800 --> 00:54:19,799
Speaker 2: of other people with audio and video editing experience who

1081
00:54:19,800 --> 00:54:22,279
Speaker 2: have joined. This is like and none of them really

1082
00:54:22,360 --> 00:54:24,080
Speaker 2: lasts long, so they're all kind of handing off the

1083
00:54:24,080 --> 00:54:26,680
Speaker 2: batage of the other. But they start producing higher quality

1084
00:54:26,800 --> 00:54:30,799
Speaker 2: videos for the melanation's different accounts, and Nature Boy kind

1085
00:54:30,840 --> 00:54:33,879
Speaker 2: of starts turning the cult into a media powerhouse, or at

1086
00:54:33,880 --> 00:54:36,839
Speaker 2: least a low level one. They release some very mid

1087
00:54:36,960 --> 00:54:40,480
Speaker 2: rap songs that are nonetheless competently produced. Right, Like, I

1088
00:54:40,480 --> 00:54:42,799
Speaker 2: wouldn't say the lyrics are very good, but like the

1089
00:54:42,880 --> 00:54:45,640
Speaker 2: sound quality is fine. They're clearly made by someone who

1090
00:54:45,680 --> 00:54:46,879
Speaker 2: knows how to produce a song.

1091
00:54:47,000 --> 00:54:48,759
Speaker 3: Did he do it as Nature Boy?

1092
00:54:49,800 --> 00:54:51,920
Speaker 2: He does? Some of it is not they have there

1093
00:54:51,920 --> 00:54:54,799
Speaker 2: are other members who are actually somewhat popular, who like

1094
00:54:54,880 --> 00:54:57,680
Speaker 2: have a following because they're more competent. He is kind

1095
00:54:57,719 --> 00:54:59,799
Speaker 2: of noted by everyone is not knowing what he's doing,

1096
00:55:00,000 --> 00:55:02,520
Speaker 2: and anytimes someone says, hey, that track sounded like shit,

1097
00:55:02,719 --> 00:55:06,359
Speaker 2: he gets angry, so he can't really make anything good.

1098
00:55:06,680 --> 00:55:08,719
Speaker 2: But he starts publishing books at this point. And so

1099
00:55:08,760 --> 00:55:10,560
Speaker 2: if he's going to show you a couple of the titles,

1100
00:55:10,719 --> 00:55:12,440
Speaker 2: there's a lot of them. Most of them are just

1101
00:55:12,480 --> 00:55:15,560
Speaker 2: a few pages. One of them is Divine Knowledge of

1102
00:55:15,600 --> 00:55:19,440
Speaker 2: the Self spelled CLLF, Study Guy, and that is intentional.

1103
00:55:19,520 --> 00:55:23,880
Speaker 2: CLF is absolutely causelles and stuff. He's wearing a Native

1104
00:55:23,880 --> 00:55:26,239
Speaker 2: American headdress in this, which is a thing he has

1105
00:55:26,280 --> 00:55:30,480
Speaker 2: started doing by this time. There's another one with it

1106
00:55:30,719 --> 00:55:33,960
Speaker 2: with an illustrated version of him, called Master Chief exposing

1107
00:55:34,080 --> 00:55:35,560
Speaker 2: the food industries struy Wine.

1108
00:55:35,719 --> 00:55:37,640
Speaker 3: There is fifteen.

1109
00:55:37,480 --> 00:55:39,520
Speaker 2: Reviews, and it has fifteen reviews.

1110
00:55:39,239 --> 00:55:41,280
Speaker 3: And it has four point four stars.

1111
00:55:41,520 --> 00:55:44,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, there's some good reviews. There's some bad ones,

1112
00:55:44,960 --> 00:55:46,759
Speaker 2: but you know, four point four stars. Some of his

1113
00:55:46,800 --> 00:55:49,000
Speaker 2: stuff just has two or three. Is he wearing an

1114
00:55:49,000 --> 00:55:51,879
Speaker 2: indigenous headdress because he starts doing that at this point.

1115
00:55:51,880 --> 00:55:54,240
Speaker 2: They have a lot of videos where the all dresses

1116
00:55:54,680 --> 00:55:56,880
Speaker 2: both as a mix of like Egyptians and like Native

1117
00:55:56,880 --> 00:55:59,280
Speaker 2: Americans and march around like soldiers.

1118
00:55:59,320 --> 00:56:02,560
Speaker 3: He loves to. That's terrible, okay.

1119
00:56:02,280 --> 00:56:06,799
Speaker 2: And again they're living in like Mexico and Honduras in

1120
00:56:07,040 --> 00:56:10,600
Speaker 2: Costa Rica, like, none of this is is it's just

1121
00:56:10,640 --> 00:56:13,719
Speaker 2: what they're doing. Okay, it's doing it's just what it's

1122
00:56:13,760 --> 00:56:17,160
Speaker 2: just what they're doing. Okay, So it's behind the bastards.

1123
00:56:16,719 --> 00:56:21,680
Speaker 2: It's yes, he's like he sucks. So this does start

1124
00:56:21,680 --> 00:56:24,080
Speaker 2: to bring in more money. I don't think the books

1125
00:56:24,080 --> 00:56:26,960
Speaker 2: as much as the video content and the rap least

1126
00:56:27,040 --> 00:56:30,960
Speaker 2: fourteen sales. At least fourteen sales. Which is good that

1127
00:56:31,000 --> 00:56:32,640
Speaker 2: they have more money because by this point he has

1128
00:56:32,680 --> 00:56:35,880
Speaker 2: spent all of keys three hundred thousand dollars inheritance. But

1129
00:56:36,320 --> 00:56:39,839
Speaker 2: the growing notoriety because he's putting out videos and they're

1130
00:56:39,840 --> 00:56:42,480
Speaker 2: getting some traction. He as followers, but the fact that

1131
00:56:42,480 --> 00:56:44,719
Speaker 2: he's more famous now that he's had these big scandals,

1132
00:56:44,920 --> 00:56:47,040
Speaker 2: it leads to someone digging up that gay porn he

1133
00:56:47,160 --> 00:56:49,200
Speaker 2: was in and for several years he will have to

1134
00:56:49,320 --> 00:56:51,360
Speaker 2: he will do. He puts out a lot of videos

1135
00:56:51,400 --> 00:56:55,360
Speaker 2: denying it's him, even though it obviously is him, and

1136
00:56:55,360 --> 00:56:57,440
Speaker 2: their videos where he's like, look if it was me,

1137
00:56:57,640 --> 00:57:02,319
Speaker 2: would that be so bad? Just admit it, man, own it.

1138
00:57:02,840 --> 00:57:05,799
Speaker 3: You've made You have managed somehow to make a lot

1139
00:57:05,840 --> 00:57:07,000
Speaker 3: of wild shit flies.

1140
00:57:07,120 --> 00:57:11,279
Speaker 2: So just just he does eventually admit it, but like

1141
00:57:11,360 --> 00:57:15,160
Speaker 2: it takes a wild amount of time. So he gets

1142
00:57:15,160 --> 00:57:17,120
Speaker 2: fed up with the States and he decides to fly

1143
00:57:17,280 --> 00:57:20,440
Speaker 2: everyone back to his Ignacio Believe to try and again

1144
00:57:20,800 --> 00:57:23,320
Speaker 2: to try his hand again at forming an intentional community.

1145
00:57:23,720 --> 00:57:26,720
Speaker 2: He's immediately recognized by the owner of an internet cafe

1146
00:57:26,840 --> 00:57:28,880
Speaker 2: and run out of the country for being a pedophile.

1147
00:57:29,000 --> 00:57:32,560
Speaker 2: So good work, random internet cafe guy in Belize. That

1148
00:57:32,800 --> 00:57:37,280
Speaker 2: was the right call. Believe is that even freak out

1149
00:57:37,280 --> 00:57:38,040
Speaker 2: of Bullize.

1150
00:57:38,280 --> 00:57:45,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, the sky can't settle. No, always jumping sucks his

1151
00:57:45,680 --> 00:57:46,400
Speaker 3: whole life.

1152
00:57:46,760 --> 00:57:50,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, so there's two good decisions right now. Although you know,

1153
00:57:50,320 --> 00:57:53,560
Speaker 2: Mayosha eventually does let him spend more time with his kid,

1154
00:57:53,600 --> 00:57:55,640
Speaker 2: which isn't a great call, but you know, her leaning

1155
00:57:55,880 --> 00:57:57,800
Speaker 2: and that guy in Belize being like, get the fuck

1156
00:57:57,800 --> 00:57:59,480
Speaker 2: out of my get the fuck out of this town

1157
00:58:00,080 --> 00:58:04,000
Speaker 2: great calls. So he changes the group's name yet again,

1158
00:58:04,120 --> 00:58:07,040
Speaker 2: I think, in part to try and you know, lose

1159
00:58:07,200 --> 00:58:10,200
Speaker 2: some of the heat on them to carbon nation, right,

1160
00:58:11,200 --> 00:58:14,240
Speaker 2: and in the grand tradition of scammers and common for generations.

1161
00:58:14,280 --> 00:58:16,800
Speaker 2: It is at this point that he flees to Mexico.

1162
00:58:18,160 --> 00:58:20,800
Speaker 2: Several new folks have joined at this point, and the

1163
00:58:20,840 --> 00:58:24,160
Speaker 2: oldest of them is a fifty nine year old mother

1164
00:58:25,040 --> 00:58:26,920
Speaker 2: of She's got several kids. I think she might be

1165
00:58:26,960 --> 00:58:29,800
Speaker 2: a grand I might have been a grandmother named Magdalena Sevilla.

1166
00:58:30,640 --> 00:58:33,560
Speaker 2: She had successfully raised several kids to adulthood. She had managed,

1167
00:58:33,720 --> 00:58:35,880
Speaker 2: was the manager of a store. She's a person who

1168
00:58:36,120 --> 00:58:40,240
Speaker 2: lived a very complete adult life, like a functional member

1169
00:58:40,240 --> 00:58:42,880
Speaker 2: of society. But she also was someone had a lot

1170
00:58:42,880 --> 00:58:46,240
Speaker 2: of trauma and a feeling that her life was somehow incomplete,

1171
00:58:46,360 --> 00:58:49,800
Speaker 2: and she falls into this content. She sees all these

1172
00:58:49,840 --> 00:58:52,560
Speaker 2: young people living these blissful lives around these beautiful things

1173
00:58:52,560 --> 00:58:54,960
Speaker 2: of nature, is like, I want this in my life, right,

1174
00:58:55,360 --> 00:58:59,120
Speaker 2: And so she quits her job and leaves everything behind.

1175
00:59:00,760 --> 00:59:03,600
Speaker 2: Her children, who were interviewed for that Hood or that

1176
00:59:03,960 --> 00:59:07,480
Speaker 2: a Hood Horrors documentary express being like really surprised by this,

1177
00:59:07,560 --> 00:59:10,520
Speaker 2: but are like, at least for a while she seems happy.

1178
00:59:10,960 --> 00:59:13,400
Speaker 2: So we were like, I don't know, maybe like I like,

1179
00:59:13,760 --> 00:59:15,720
Speaker 2: she's fifty nine, right, Like, what are we supposed to

1180
00:59:15,760 --> 00:59:19,960
Speaker 2: do now? She has a heart condition that she's been

1181
00:59:19,960 --> 00:59:23,720
Speaker 2: on medication on for like a decade. At this point, again,

1182
00:59:23,760 --> 00:59:27,360
Speaker 2: it's totally manageable. She is managing it, but nature Boy

1183
00:59:27,480 --> 00:59:31,240
Speaker 2: hates medicine, and it's kind of you could some of

1184
00:59:31,280 --> 00:59:33,440
Speaker 2: the accounts of people at the time, it is insinuated

1185
00:59:33,440 --> 00:59:35,880
Speaker 2: that he harasses her whenever she takes it. There are

1186
00:59:35,880 --> 00:59:38,480
Speaker 2: some reports that she felt afraid of him knowing that

1187
00:59:38,520 --> 00:59:40,880
Speaker 2: she needed medicine and that she was sick, or that

1188
00:59:40,960 --> 00:59:43,720
Speaker 2: she was taking it, and she she doesn't like quit

1189
00:59:43,760 --> 00:59:46,680
Speaker 2: cold turkey, but she starts rationing it and not taking

1190
00:59:46,680 --> 00:59:48,840
Speaker 2: it as often as she is supposed to, and it

1191
00:59:49,600 --> 00:59:54,160
Speaker 2: eventually she runs out entirely, and in videos from later

1192
00:59:54,200 --> 00:59:57,160
Speaker 2: in her stay, she starts to look visibly unhealthy. Right,

1193
00:59:58,360 --> 01:00:00,960
Speaker 2: the group kind of travels aro. They go back to

1194
01:00:01,000 --> 01:00:03,320
Speaker 2: Belize for a while and then move back and then

1195
01:00:03,360 --> 01:00:06,320
Speaker 2: back to Mexico to a place called Pelinke where they

1196
01:00:06,320 --> 01:00:09,960
Speaker 2: rent a modern stone house, although again most cult members

1197
01:00:10,000 --> 01:00:11,960
Speaker 2: are camping in the yard and everyone is pooping in

1198
01:00:12,000 --> 01:00:15,320
Speaker 2: the yard. Now at this point, Nature Boy has drawn

1199
01:00:15,360 --> 01:00:17,880
Speaker 2: in some cult members who are you know, they're better

1200
01:00:17,920 --> 01:00:21,040
Speaker 2: at editing and video. They've got like recording studios set up.

1201
01:00:21,040 --> 01:00:24,080
Speaker 2: They're putting out a lot of content and some money

1202
01:00:24,120 --> 01:00:26,080
Speaker 2: is coming through with this. More money comes in from

1203
01:00:26,160 --> 01:00:28,880
Speaker 2: Nature Boy requiring new members to hand over their debit

1204
01:00:28,920 --> 01:00:31,920
Speaker 2: cards and credit cards when they join. One former member

1205
01:00:31,960 --> 01:00:34,280
Speaker 2: claims he gave Nature Boy a card with one thousand

1206
01:00:34,280 --> 01:00:37,400
Speaker 2: dollars his life savings on it, and Nature Boy immediately

1207
01:00:37,400 --> 01:00:39,439
Speaker 2: spent it all on a ping pong table, so again

1208
01:00:40,040 --> 01:00:43,600
Speaker 2: not great at money. Near the end of twenty eighteen,

1209
01:00:44,120 --> 01:00:46,840
Speaker 2: Civilid dies in the night in her tent due to

1210
01:00:46,880 --> 01:00:51,520
Speaker 2: a pre existing now unmedicated heart condition. Velvet Marquez, who

1211
01:00:51,600 --> 01:00:53,160
Speaker 2: is still with the group at this point but will

1212
01:00:53,200 --> 01:00:56,000
Speaker 2: leave later, told a reporter he does not allow people

1213
01:00:56,000 --> 01:00:58,680
Speaker 2: to have medical attention. This is why Mamada, that's what

1214
01:00:58,720 --> 01:01:02,480
Speaker 2: they called her, passed away. Now by this point, Nature

1215
01:01:02,480 --> 01:01:05,160
Speaker 2: Boy is fully calling himself God. Now he has forced

1216
01:01:05,160 --> 01:01:07,440
Speaker 2: the whole cult on a strict diet where everyone can

1217
01:01:07,480 --> 01:01:10,040
Speaker 2: only eat at the same time. He gets hungry. He

1218
01:01:10,080 --> 01:01:13,160
Speaker 2: starts randomly forbidding men and women to speak with each other,

1219
01:01:13,240 --> 01:01:17,080
Speaker 2: and in true cult leader fashion, begins doling out unhinged punishments.

1220
01:01:17,360 --> 01:01:19,880
Speaker 2: When members displease him. They're made to do squats or

1221
01:01:19,920 --> 01:01:22,919
Speaker 2: stand in a corner. He also starts filming the sex

1222
01:01:22,960 --> 01:01:26,040
Speaker 2: that he has with followers and sometimes posting the videos online,

1223
01:01:26,320 --> 01:01:31,120
Speaker 2: sometimes as revenge porn, sometimes just as content. They make

1224
01:01:31,280 --> 01:01:34,320
Speaker 2: most of their money. He sucks so bad. They make

1225
01:01:34,400 --> 01:01:36,280
Speaker 2: most of their money at this point from a social

1226
01:01:36,360 --> 01:01:39,800
Speaker 2: media app based in Singapore called big O Live, which

1227
01:01:40,200 --> 01:01:44,000
Speaker 2: pays people for streaming Shaka. Calvin, one of his followers,

1228
01:01:44,080 --> 01:01:47,240
Speaker 2: claims that's when it would really get bad because Bishop

1229
01:01:47,320 --> 01:01:49,640
Speaker 2: Nature Boys started becoming a celebrity. They were all having

1230
01:01:49,640 --> 01:01:51,880
Speaker 2: to do things to get attention, to get money, and

1231
01:01:51,960 --> 01:01:55,120
Speaker 2: the things they do, they start instead of there being

1232
01:01:55,200 --> 01:01:57,800
Speaker 2: any kind of message, they start really focusing their content

1233
01:01:57,880 --> 01:02:01,240
Speaker 2: on we need to have reality shows, shit about everyone

1234
01:02:01,280 --> 01:02:03,880
Speaker 2: having fights and conflicts within the group. So he starts

1235
01:02:04,000 --> 01:02:06,720
Speaker 2: ordering people to fake fights and arguments for the sake

1236
01:02:06,760 --> 01:02:10,400
Speaker 2: of viral content, and he also starts yeah beef sell.

1237
01:02:10,720 --> 01:02:13,680
Speaker 2: He also starts talking like a militant revolutionary, which is

1238
01:02:13,680 --> 01:02:15,760
Speaker 2: when they start really doing a lot of these videos

1239
01:02:15,800 --> 01:02:18,440
Speaker 2: where they're dressed as like Pharaoh's or Native Americans and

1240
01:02:18,440 --> 01:02:22,200
Speaker 2: they're marching like soldiers to again, like again, stuff that

1241
01:02:22,240 --> 01:02:24,680
Speaker 2: he thinks is going to like shock people and go viral.

1242
01:02:25,440 --> 01:02:28,360
Speaker 2: As Daylon Armstead, the music engineer who joined recalled the

1243
01:02:28,440 --> 01:02:31,960
Speaker 2: Rolling Stone, working frequently with two other initiates, armand Palmer,

1244
01:02:32,000 --> 01:02:35,080
Speaker 2: who went by Piss and Ishmael Goodwin aka Caliber. The

1245
01:02:35,360 --> 01:02:38,960
Speaker 2: group's musical output accelerated. Loving the money and Hating the

1246
01:02:39,000 --> 01:02:41,520
Speaker 2: System is loving the warden and hating the prison. Palmer

1247
01:02:41,600 --> 01:02:43,720
Speaker 2: raps with an eerie synth hook looping behind him and

1248
01:02:43,760 --> 01:02:48,640
Speaker 2: one song called negro Pian. The song's music features Musa

1249
01:02:48,640 --> 01:02:52,320
Speaker 2: and Palmer's shirtless decked out in feathered headdresses, tribal jewelry

1250
01:02:52,360 --> 01:02:55,800
Speaker 2: face paints, stalking around vivid jungle landscapes. The message was

1251
01:02:55,840 --> 01:02:58,400
Speaker 2: a product like cocaine, Musa says, we were there to

1252
01:02:58,440 --> 01:03:00,680
Speaker 2: package it and get it out again. These are all

1253
01:03:00,680 --> 01:03:03,600
Speaker 2: like members who are like handling the actual entertainment portion

1254
01:03:03,720 --> 01:03:06,840
Speaker 2: of things, the stuff that actually does require some discipline.

1255
01:03:06,880 --> 01:03:10,960
Speaker 2: Is this right now? As time goes on and increasing,

1256
01:03:11,040 --> 01:03:14,960
Speaker 2: part of his message becomes domestic abuse because nature Boy

1257
01:03:15,000 --> 01:03:18,240
Speaker 2: has started seeing by this point, Velvet, who starts out

1258
01:03:18,320 --> 01:03:21,480
Speaker 2: as Olmec's direct, is now his direct, is probably his

1259
01:03:21,560 --> 01:03:24,680
Speaker 2: main wife, and he has started hitting her. He's also

1260
01:03:24,800 --> 01:03:27,640
Speaker 2: hitting basically every other woman in the group. Former member

1261
01:03:27,720 --> 01:03:30,520
Speaker 2: Courtney Townsend claims, quote, we end up having these meetings

1262
01:03:30,520 --> 01:03:32,960
Speaker 2: that would last six eight hours where he's explaining why

1263
01:03:33,000 --> 01:03:34,840
Speaker 2: he's locking a velvet in a room, why he had

1264
01:03:34,880 --> 01:03:37,520
Speaker 2: to slap her. His explanation was that we've been programmed

1265
01:03:37,520 --> 01:03:39,760
Speaker 2: by European men to be weak little men, so our

1266
01:03:39,760 --> 01:03:42,640
Speaker 2: women will never respect us. The women will respect him,

1267
01:03:42,680 --> 01:03:45,360
Speaker 2: and he's the guy slapping these girls, locking them in rooms.

1268
01:03:45,880 --> 01:03:48,160
Speaker 2: He actually does a live stream at one point with

1269
01:03:48,240 --> 01:03:50,760
Speaker 2: Velvet and her dad where Velvet's dad asks like, why

1270
01:03:50,760 --> 01:03:52,959
Speaker 2: do you keep hitting my daughter? And Nature Boy says,

1271
01:03:53,000 --> 01:03:55,840
Speaker 2: because I was upset with her, and her dad responds,

1272
01:03:55,880 --> 01:03:57,520
Speaker 2: she made you bust her in the face, her nose

1273
01:03:57,560 --> 01:04:00,440
Speaker 2: bleeding profusely everywhere. I'm going to tell you that, pops,

1274
01:04:00,440 --> 01:04:02,720
Speaker 2: Bishop responds when it comes to me, I'm a man,

1275
01:04:03,520 --> 01:04:06,320
Speaker 2: so again, like he is, is this has become like

1276
01:04:06,600 --> 01:04:09,640
Speaker 2: the central What started as like we need to overthrow

1277
01:04:09,680 --> 01:04:12,520
Speaker 2: Babylon and go back to nature, it is now primarily

1278
01:04:12,520 --> 01:04:14,200
Speaker 2: what we need to do is hit women. That's what's

1279
01:04:14,200 --> 01:04:15,280
Speaker 2: the cled his circle for.

1280
01:04:15,440 --> 01:04:19,160
Speaker 3: His own desires, his own instincts that he doesn't want

1281
01:04:19,200 --> 01:04:21,280
Speaker 3: to work on arm through from it's a place where

1282
01:04:21,280 --> 01:04:22,800
Speaker 3: he can do whatever the fuck he wants.

1283
01:04:22,920 --> 01:04:25,520
Speaker 2: And here's what part of what's extra gross about this.

1284
01:04:25,760 --> 01:04:27,800
Speaker 2: It's not even that this is into like obviously he

1285
01:04:27,840 --> 01:04:30,640
Speaker 2: wants to do this, but there's another level that is

1286
01:04:30,800 --> 01:04:33,280
Speaker 2: very social media to this that I fight even sicker,

1287
01:04:33,320 --> 01:04:36,160
Speaker 2: which is that a lot of their viewers and they're

1288
01:04:36,160 --> 01:04:38,520
Speaker 2: getting paid by viewers, whether or not those viewers like

1289
01:04:38,560 --> 01:04:41,360
Speaker 2: them are hate watchers. So a lot of why he's

1290
01:04:41,360 --> 01:04:43,919
Speaker 2: doing this is because it makes people angry and they

1291
01:04:44,000 --> 01:04:47,360
Speaker 2: share and repost, and it gets him more traffic right

1292
01:04:48,840 --> 01:04:53,520
Speaker 2: up that yeah, yeah, Now that said, this does get

1293
01:04:53,560 --> 01:04:57,480
Speaker 2: him reported to the Mexican police. In March of twenty nineteen,

1294
01:04:57,520 --> 01:04:59,520
Speaker 2: they get rated, which prompts them to flee the next

1295
01:04:59,560 --> 01:05:01,959
Speaker 2: day for a day Garagua. They eventually get rated there

1296
01:05:02,040 --> 01:05:05,800
Speaker 2: and after about a month they get deported and they

1297
01:05:05,800 --> 01:05:08,720
Speaker 2: go to Panama, where the same shit happens. They spend

1298
01:05:08,720 --> 01:05:11,600
Speaker 2: some time there, there are police reports, they get arrested,

1299
01:05:11,800 --> 01:05:15,840
Speaker 2: they get deported. This happens several times until COVID hits.

1300
01:05:16,280 --> 01:05:20,959
Speaker 2: Now the plague is actually a lifeline for nature Boy

1301
01:05:21,120 --> 01:05:25,040
Speaker 2: and carbon Nation because again he's making his followers hand

1302
01:05:25,080 --> 01:05:27,520
Speaker 2: over all of their money and everyone starts getting those

1303
01:05:27,520 --> 01:05:30,240
Speaker 2: COVID checks right in addition to be it gets easy

1304
01:05:30,320 --> 01:05:32,400
Speaker 2: to get like on unemployment and stuff, and so he

1305
01:05:32,480 --> 01:05:35,320
Speaker 2: starts taking that directly from them, and they have enough

1306
01:05:35,320 --> 01:05:37,000
Speaker 2: coming in now that he tries to set up in

1307
01:05:37,080 --> 01:05:41,040
Speaker 2: Hawaii on the Big Island next. Now, if you remember,

1308
01:05:41,480 --> 01:05:45,880
Speaker 2: Hawaii has extremely strict COVID quarantine protocols at this time.

1309
01:05:45,920 --> 01:05:47,400
Speaker 2: I think it's like two weeks that you have to

1310
01:05:47,400 --> 01:05:50,560
Speaker 2: spend in a hotel room, not leaving for any reason

1311
01:05:50,600 --> 01:05:53,520
Speaker 2: but an absolute medical emergency, right, if you want to

1312
01:05:53,560 --> 01:05:55,360
Speaker 2: spend any time on the island at all. Right, Like

1313
01:05:55,400 --> 01:05:57,240
Speaker 2: that is my recollection of it. That's what I read

1314
01:05:57,240 --> 01:06:00,920
Speaker 2: in the article. They show up in Hawaii and immediately

1315
01:06:00,960 --> 01:06:03,800
Speaker 2: break quarantine and in fact post videos of themselves not

1316
01:06:03,840 --> 01:06:06,480
Speaker 2: just breaking quarantine, but like touching in dangered turtles that

1317
01:06:06,520 --> 01:06:09,520
Speaker 2: you're not allowed to touch. So they get arrested by

1318
01:06:09,560 --> 01:06:13,720
Speaker 2: the Hawaiian government and they get deported America. As Americans.

1319
01:06:13,760 --> 01:06:20,320
Speaker 2: They get deported from Hawaii, which is not easy to do.

1320
01:06:19,480 --> 01:06:23,320
Speaker 2: You have to really suck some horrible shit to get

1321
01:06:23,320 --> 01:06:29,320
Speaker 2: deported from Hawaii as an American citizen. Now, while all

1322
01:06:29,360 --> 01:06:32,320
Speaker 2: this is going on, Carbon Nation has become a YouTube

1323
01:06:32,360 --> 01:06:36,160
Speaker 2: production house, putting out videos that are mostly either sexual

1324
01:06:36,240 --> 01:06:39,360
Speaker 2: or involve giant dramatic fights between members. Less and less

1325
01:06:39,360 --> 01:06:42,080
Speaker 2: time is spent actually preaching any kind of ideology. But

1326
01:06:42,120 --> 01:06:44,960
Speaker 2: the parasocial bond formed by watching this stuff is strong

1327
01:06:45,040 --> 01:06:48,240
Speaker 2: enough that people keep joining, including Jane Newell, a twenty

1328
01:06:48,280 --> 01:06:50,640
Speaker 2: five year old waitress at a raw vegan restaurant who

1329
01:06:50,640 --> 01:06:53,320
Speaker 2: by twenty twenty had come to consider carbon Nation my

1330
01:06:53,560 --> 01:06:57,160
Speaker 2: frequency family. What was what he preached, people of like

1331
01:06:57,240 --> 01:06:59,720
Speaker 2: minds coming together on a common mission to elevate the

1332
01:06:59,760 --> 01:07:04,360
Speaker 2: conciousness of Earth. This is all again, just repackaged bullshit.

1333
01:07:04,400 --> 01:07:06,120
Speaker 2: I was here and shit like this twenty years ago

1334
01:07:06,160 --> 01:07:10,200
Speaker 2: from fucking assholes on a primitive chunk of the Internet,

1335
01:07:10,200 --> 01:07:13,360
Speaker 2: but like y the same frequency. Now you fucking not,

1336
01:07:14,000 --> 01:07:18,440
Speaker 2: You're shitting in a yard and hitting women. Initially, she

1337
01:07:18,520 --> 01:07:21,640
Speaker 2: describes him as kind, but on March twenty second March

1338
01:07:21,680 --> 01:07:24,160
Speaker 2: twenty seventh, twenty twenty two, during a party at the

1339
01:07:24,200 --> 01:07:26,520
Speaker 2: Decalb County house that they had started to rent because

1340
01:07:26,520 --> 01:07:29,120
Speaker 2: they're back in the continental US. At this point, Nature

1341
01:07:29,200 --> 01:07:32,240
Speaker 2: Boy had one of his other wives punched Newell repeatedly.

1342
01:07:32,320 --> 01:07:35,240
Speaker 2: After an argument, she says, all right, well, I'm out

1343
01:07:35,240 --> 01:07:37,760
Speaker 2: of here. I'm leaving, but Nature Boy kind of sends

1344
01:07:37,760 --> 01:07:41,120
Speaker 2: people after her and convinces her to come back, and

1345
01:07:41,400 --> 01:07:44,000
Speaker 2: then he tries to coerce her into sex. She says

1346
01:07:44,040 --> 01:07:46,760
Speaker 2: no repeatedly, and he keeps repeating I'm not going to

1347
01:07:46,840 --> 01:07:49,400
Speaker 2: rape you, and then we should have sex one more time,

1348
01:07:49,760 --> 01:07:54,200
Speaker 2: and eventually he coerces her into having sex. Once she leaves,

1349
01:07:54,360 --> 01:07:58,000
Speaker 2: Nature Boy immediately posts revenge porn videos of them having sex.

1350
01:07:58,440 --> 01:08:00,680
Speaker 2: Newell goes to the cops, and she initially is not

1351
01:08:00,680 --> 01:08:03,640
Speaker 2: pressing charges for rape, just for the revenge porn. But

1352
01:08:03,800 --> 01:08:06,360
Speaker 2: the cops are like, this, actually, this is this. It

1353
01:08:06,400 --> 01:08:08,200
Speaker 2: has to be so bad for the cops to do this.

1354
01:08:08,280 --> 01:08:11,320
Speaker 2: The cops are like, this actually sounds like rape to us.

1355
01:08:11,320 --> 01:08:16,240
Speaker 3: Like development that is, And it's this again.

1356
01:08:16,080 --> 01:08:17,960
Speaker 2: If this is a white cult leader, I don't think

1357
01:08:17,960 --> 01:08:21,160
Speaker 2: any of this happens in terms of like the legal consequences.

1358
01:08:21,200 --> 01:08:22,680
Speaker 2: That is a huge part of it. Right, That he

1359
01:08:22,760 --> 01:08:25,200
Speaker 2: is a black cult leader is why the cops see this.

1360
01:08:25,439 --> 01:08:27,840
Speaker 2: But he is this is rape.

1361
01:08:28,280 --> 01:08:29,360
Speaker 3: Doing a bad thing.

1362
01:08:29,520 --> 01:08:33,679
Speaker 2: Yeah, all the things. So he gets arrested, he gets charged,

1363
01:08:33,720 --> 01:08:35,120
Speaker 2: he does bail out, and he's going to spend like

1364
01:08:35,160 --> 01:08:37,200
Speaker 2: the next two years almost fighting in court while his

1365
01:08:37,280 --> 01:08:40,280
Speaker 2: collapses around him. There had been a few dozen people

1366
01:08:40,320 --> 01:08:42,640
Speaker 2: at most at one point, and they're down to like

1367
01:08:42,680 --> 01:08:46,120
Speaker 2: a half dozen hard liners. One of his followers, amar

1368
01:08:46,200 --> 01:08:48,240
Speaker 2: Ja Wied flees with a bunch of money and hard

1369
01:08:48,320 --> 01:08:52,599
Speaker 2: drives that presumably included revenge porn. On March sixth, twenty

1370
01:08:52,640 --> 01:08:54,920
Speaker 2: twenty three, he's found dead inside of a house that's

1371
01:08:54,960 --> 01:08:57,880
Speaker 2: on fire. It seems to be related to some gang

1372
01:08:57,920 --> 01:09:00,479
Speaker 2: stuff he was into as opposed to Nature Boy. But

1373
01:09:00,760 --> 01:09:02,880
Speaker 2: I don't, you know, it's not fully known, but it's

1374
01:09:02,920 --> 01:09:05,120
Speaker 2: one of those people who knew him will be like,

1375
01:09:05,479 --> 01:09:08,799
Speaker 2: it's because of Nature Boy's influence that he got into

1376
01:09:08,840 --> 01:09:11,040
Speaker 2: that stuff in the first place, right because he joined

1377
01:09:11,080 --> 01:09:14,200
Speaker 2: when he was eighteen, and this dude had a real

1378
01:09:14,400 --> 01:09:16,439
Speaker 2: dark impact on him. I don't know, but those are

1379
01:09:16,479 --> 01:09:18,960
Speaker 2: the two deaths that are somewhat tied to this cult.

1380
01:09:19,840 --> 01:09:22,639
Speaker 2: The court case finally reached its conclusion earlier this year,

1381
01:09:22,720 --> 01:09:24,840
Speaker 2: and it didn't go well for Nature Boy. One of

1382
01:09:24,840 --> 01:09:27,160
Speaker 2: his wives admitted to posting revenge porn when she was

1383
01:09:27,200 --> 01:09:30,639
Speaker 2: like trying to defend him, and in general, every time

1384
01:09:30,720 --> 01:09:33,400
Speaker 2: his remaining loyal followers got up on the stand, it

1385
01:09:33,560 --> 01:09:36,080
Speaker 2: was bad for him because the things he convinced them

1386
01:09:36,120 --> 01:09:39,240
Speaker 2: to do were bad. The state offered him a thirty

1387
01:09:39,360 --> 01:09:42,280
Speaker 2: year plea deal, which he rejected. So on March first,

1388
01:09:42,439 --> 01:09:44,800
Speaker 2: he is convicted on all counts and sentenced to life

1389
01:09:44,800 --> 01:09:47,479
Speaker 2: in prison without the possibility of parole plus ten years,

1390
01:09:47,479 --> 01:09:53,840
Speaker 2: which is where he is now. So wow, yep, again,

1391
01:09:54,040 --> 01:09:54,599
Speaker 2: that is one.

1392
01:09:54,479 --> 01:09:55,759
Speaker 3: Of those squidest story.

1393
01:09:56,080 --> 01:09:59,240
Speaker 2: It's both like, yeah, this guy sucked. I'm glad he's

1394
01:09:59,520 --> 01:10:02,680
Speaker 2: he's not out and free, but also like, well, there

1395
01:10:02,720 --> 01:10:06,000
Speaker 2: was only justice in this case because he's a black guy. Right.

1396
01:10:06,120 --> 01:10:08,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a little cause those things are true, you know,

1397
01:10:09,360 --> 01:10:13,240
Speaker 3: And it's also complicated by the fact that you know,

1398
01:10:13,960 --> 01:10:16,880
Speaker 3: neeeds to be believed, which I think there's no reason

1399
01:10:16,920 --> 01:10:19,439
Speaker 3: not to believe the story of his childhood. It's it's

1400
01:10:19,640 --> 01:10:22,639
Speaker 3: incredibly traumatic, and you can see the through lines, yep,

1401
01:10:23,439 --> 01:10:25,120
Speaker 3: of how he got from point A to point B

1402
01:10:25,280 --> 01:10:32,600
Speaker 3: here his aggression and constantly being moved around and abused

1403
01:10:33,320 --> 01:10:36,639
Speaker 3: and then but that's no excuse. It's not an excuse

1404
01:10:36,920 --> 01:10:37,800
Speaker 3: just this way.

1405
01:10:38,560 --> 01:10:41,479
Speaker 2: It's it's interesting if you want to look at like

1406
01:10:41,520 --> 01:10:44,639
Speaker 2: the cult that has a very that takes the cult

1407
01:10:44,640 --> 01:10:46,040
Speaker 2: that kind of I think about a lot when I

1408
01:10:46,080 --> 01:10:48,160
Speaker 2: read about this, because he's kind of the lower effort

1409
01:10:48,200 --> 01:10:51,400
Speaker 2: version of nexium, right, and nexium is a higher effort

1410
01:10:51,439 --> 01:10:54,879
Speaker 2: version in part because you've got this guy Keith Ranieri,

1411
01:10:55,000 --> 01:10:59,800
Speaker 2: who gets his start doing other kind of cons is

1412
01:11:00,240 --> 01:11:03,720
Speaker 2: targeting a higher level of wealth individual is targeting people

1413
01:11:03,760 --> 01:11:06,640
Speaker 2: who are more prominent, and he's doing a lot of

1414
01:11:06,680 --> 01:11:08,120
Speaker 2: When you get right down to it, it's the same.

1415
01:11:08,160 --> 01:11:10,080
Speaker 2: They're not he's talking about saving the world. All he's

1416
01:11:10,120 --> 01:11:13,920
Speaker 2: really doing is being like lounging around in nice hotels

1417
01:11:13,960 --> 01:11:16,960
Speaker 2: and houses in rental houses and having sex with a

1418
01:11:17,000 --> 01:11:21,160
Speaker 2: bunch of women who he also physically and mentally abuses. Right, Ultimately,

1419
01:11:21,200 --> 01:11:24,719
Speaker 2: both cults are doing the same thing. Ranieri makes millions

1420
01:11:24,760 --> 01:11:27,240
Speaker 2: and millions of dollars and is adjacent to a lot

1421
01:11:27,280 --> 01:11:30,280
Speaker 2: of very powerful people for years and years and years

1422
01:11:30,280 --> 01:11:33,559
Speaker 2: and years, like like a long time before he gets justice.

1423
01:11:34,000 --> 01:11:36,240
Speaker 2: Nature Boy, it just a couple of years. And it's

1424
01:11:36,439 --> 01:11:39,400
Speaker 2: in part because Nature Boy does not have, because of

1425
01:11:39,400 --> 01:11:43,280
Speaker 2: his background, the ability to kind of reach and you know,

1426
01:11:43,400 --> 01:11:47,760
Speaker 2: influence the level of wealth people that Ranieri does. And

1427
01:11:47,800 --> 01:11:51,559
Speaker 2: it's part because like just he immediately gets a lot

1428
01:11:51,680 --> 01:11:56,640
Speaker 2: more new uh you know shit, right, Like he he

1429
01:11:57,400 --> 01:12:00,040
Speaker 2: gets a lot more attention from law enforcement. He gets it.

1430
01:12:00,040 --> 01:12:03,040
Speaker 2: It's taken seriously because he's not a white guy, right, but.

1431
01:12:03,040 --> 01:12:06,479
Speaker 3: He also, yes, what I'm about to say does not

1432
01:12:07,000 --> 01:12:11,519
Speaker 3: it's not counter countering that, but like to your own point,

1433
01:12:11,880 --> 01:12:15,479
Speaker 3: he's pretty lazy. He's pretty sloppy and lazy about how

1434
01:12:15,479 --> 01:12:21,040
Speaker 3: he's going about this, not preparing, uh, you know, and

1435
01:12:21,080 --> 01:12:24,320
Speaker 3: really not even trying to keep up the facade of

1436
01:12:24,439 --> 01:12:30,479
Speaker 3: there being anything to intellectual or spiritual or uh. It's

1437
01:12:30,600 --> 01:12:38,479
Speaker 3: just about instagram posting the videos, making money, chasing the clout. Oh,

1438
01:12:38,520 --> 01:12:41,160
Speaker 3: it's subs are dying down, going down. You gotta add

1439
01:12:41,320 --> 01:12:47,880
Speaker 3: fights fabricate it like the reality TV show, And it's

1440
01:12:47,880 --> 01:12:49,439
Speaker 3: wild because it's possible to do it.

1441
01:12:50,320 --> 01:12:52,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean, you know, that's part of what's

1442
01:12:52,320 --> 01:12:54,479
Speaker 2: interesting is because you know, when Neier, he did have

1443
01:12:54,520 --> 01:12:56,559
Speaker 2: to create a lot of like he had to he

1444
01:12:56,560 --> 01:12:59,240
Speaker 2: had to build this curriculum around his cult in order

1445
01:12:59,280 --> 01:13:02,599
Speaker 2: to start getting the following that he eventually turns into,

1446
01:13:02,680 --> 01:13:05,759
Speaker 2: like what it turns into when you've got the Internet

1447
01:13:05,800 --> 01:13:08,640
Speaker 2: and the way parasocial relationships work, if you're able to

1448
01:13:08,840 --> 01:13:11,200
Speaker 2: just get an audience with content that you're putting out

1449
01:13:11,240 --> 01:13:15,680
Speaker 2: hours of on a regular basis, you can really easily

1450
01:13:16,400 --> 01:13:19,439
Speaker 2: get a number enough people to kind of support you

1451
01:13:19,479 --> 01:13:21,519
Speaker 2: as a cult leader. You know, this isn't a massive

1452
01:13:21,560 --> 01:13:25,240
Speaker 2: could he's not a massive star, but one hundred thousand

1453
01:13:25,320 --> 01:13:27,960
Speaker 2: or so regular listeners. You can get a dozen or

1454
01:13:27,960 --> 01:13:29,760
Speaker 2: two people who will come out and live with you

1455
01:13:29,800 --> 01:13:32,679
Speaker 2: at any given time, and enough money that you can

1456
01:13:32,720 --> 01:13:34,679
Speaker 2: get away with this. And it takes so much less

1457
01:13:34,720 --> 01:13:37,960
Speaker 2: effort a guy like Ranieri. There is more background work

1458
01:13:37,960 --> 01:13:40,000
Speaker 2: that Ranieri has to do to get started, you know.

1459
01:13:41,439 --> 01:13:43,799
Speaker 2: So it is just one of these like social media

1460
01:13:43,920 --> 01:13:48,720
Speaker 2: has made starting a cult a lot take a lot

1461
01:13:48,800 --> 01:13:50,640
Speaker 2: less effort, and you can fuck up a bunch of

1462
01:13:50,680 --> 01:13:52,800
Speaker 2: people's lives doing that a lot more easily. That said,

1463
01:13:52,840 --> 01:13:55,320
Speaker 2: the cults don't tend to last as long. Maybe that's

1464
01:13:55,360 --> 01:13:57,320
Speaker 2: the outside right, Well, they're.

1465
01:13:57,160 --> 01:14:01,639
Speaker 3: More visible too. Yeah, they're doing is on display. It's

1466
01:14:01,680 --> 01:14:03,439
Speaker 3: hard to confuscate what's happening.

1467
01:14:04,920 --> 01:14:08,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that is that is kind of worthwhile. That

1468
01:14:08,360 --> 01:14:11,400
Speaker 2: that the worthwhile side story here is that a lot

1469
01:14:11,400 --> 01:14:14,320
Speaker 2: of why this colde gets taken down is there's it's

1470
01:14:14,360 --> 01:14:16,920
Speaker 2: not just you know, the racism of the police. It's

1471
01:14:16,960 --> 01:14:19,320
Speaker 2: also that there's a lot of people watching and following

1472
01:14:19,360 --> 01:14:22,160
Speaker 2: this online and saying this is wrong and taking effective

1473
01:14:22,200 --> 01:14:25,200
Speaker 2: action to both scare other people. A number of a

1474
01:14:25,240 --> 01:14:28,960
Speaker 2: lot of people both get out because people are making

1475
01:14:29,040 --> 01:14:31,080
Speaker 2: a stink about how fucked up this is and don't

1476
01:14:31,200 --> 01:14:34,240
Speaker 2: join who might otherwise have joined because of all of

1477
01:14:34,280 --> 01:14:37,160
Speaker 2: the people who are trying to stop this, and it

1478
01:14:37,160 --> 01:14:39,839
Speaker 2: also makes it harder for them to act and operate.

1479
01:14:39,920 --> 01:14:41,760
Speaker 2: So that isn't a pus side of it, right, is

1480
01:14:41,760 --> 01:14:45,400
Speaker 2: that there is like a community kind of defense aspect

1481
01:14:45,479 --> 01:14:48,040
Speaker 2: here if people realize this is really, you know, fucked up,

1482
01:14:48,120 --> 01:14:51,320
Speaker 2: right like that Hood Horrors documentary is somebody who covers

1483
01:14:51,320 --> 01:14:53,920
Speaker 2: a lot of stuff within the subculture, being like, people

1484
01:14:53,960 --> 01:14:55,920
Speaker 2: need to know how this happened and why?

1485
01:14:56,080 --> 01:14:59,400
Speaker 3: Right, So that's good, you know, yeah, the good with

1486
01:14:59,520 --> 01:15:03,680
Speaker 3: the bad good so easy to get swooped up in

1487
01:15:03,800 --> 01:15:07,400
Speaker 3: movements that you don't intend to the pipeline. There's much

1488
01:15:07,400 --> 01:15:10,160
Speaker 3: to be said about this, we know, yes, much to say.

1489
01:15:10,560 --> 01:15:12,919
Speaker 3: That's why the show exists.

1490
01:15:12,479 --> 01:15:18,360
Speaker 2: Ye all right, okay, Well that's the episode. How you feeling, Katie.

1491
01:15:18,040 --> 01:15:23,599
Speaker 3: I'm feeling great. Learned a lot about nature Boy and Colts.

1492
01:15:24,680 --> 01:15:27,400
Speaker 3: Yeah for my own cult actually already have.

1493
01:15:27,840 --> 01:15:32,840
Speaker 2: Yeah you know what, Yeah, joined Katie's cult where I

1494
01:15:32,880 --> 01:15:35,640
Speaker 2: don't know, Katie, what which what Central American nation do

1495
01:15:35,680 --> 01:15:36,760
Speaker 2: you think you're going to wind up in?

1496
01:15:38,600 --> 01:15:39,760
Speaker 1: Oh?

1497
01:15:39,800 --> 01:15:41,720
Speaker 3: That sounds like a lot of work. Can it just

1498
01:15:41,720 --> 01:15:43,160
Speaker 3: be based out of California?

1499
01:15:43,680 --> 01:15:46,560
Speaker 2: A lot of colts are Katie? Good news about that?

1500
01:15:49,720 --> 01:15:52,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm just going to come to your compound and

1501
01:15:52,120 --> 01:15:55,519
Speaker 3: start it there. Michael already exists. It's called some More News.

1502
01:15:55,520 --> 01:15:56,920
Speaker 3: You can support our Patreon.

1503
01:15:57,479 --> 01:16:01,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm I'm I'm too tired. That seems like so

1504
01:16:01,200 --> 01:16:03,560
Speaker 2: much work. I'd rather I'm going to play Age of

1505
01:16:03,600 --> 01:16:07,479
Speaker 2: Wonders four in my underpants alone. That's my play. Yeah,

1506
01:16:07,520 --> 01:16:11,520
Speaker 2: what a nice evening. Yeah, sounds great. Sore.

1507
01:16:11,640 --> 01:16:15,440
Speaker 1: So we're not going to start that cult on in Curasu.

1508
01:16:15,840 --> 01:16:19,040
Speaker 2: Well, no, Sylvie, you should start that Culton curasw. We

1509
01:16:19,120 --> 01:16:21,960
Speaker 2: definitely still need a cult and Curasu, but primarily as

1510
01:16:22,000 --> 01:16:24,320
Speaker 2: a way to get money and as a way to

1511
01:16:24,360 --> 01:16:27,120
Speaker 2: purchase products without tariffs. That's really the benefit of having

1512
01:16:27,160 --> 01:16:27,760
Speaker 2: a cult and curra.

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01:16:28,160 --> 01:16:30,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a real big benefit. Yeah, you know, And

1514
01:16:30,880 --> 01:16:32,479
Speaker 3: I'll just move there with you. We don't even have

1515
01:16:32,520 --> 01:16:33,200
Speaker 3: to start a cult.

1516
01:16:33,960 --> 01:16:37,080
Speaker 2: Sounds good to there. Yep.

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01:16:40,400 --> 01:16:43,120
Speaker 1: Behind the Bastards is a production of cool Zone Media.

1518
01:16:43,479 --> 01:16:46,080
Speaker 1: For more from cool Zone Media, visit our website cool

1519
01:16:46,160 --> 01:16:50,120
Speaker 1: Zonemedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio, app,

1520
01:16:50,200 --> 01:16:53,360
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Behind the

1521
01:16:53,400 --> 01:16:57,440
Speaker 1: Bastards is now available on YouTube, new episodes every Wednesday

1522
01:16:57,560 --> 01:17:01,839
Speaker 1: and Friday. Subscribe to our channel dot com slash at

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01:17:01,880 --> 01:17:02,880
Speaker 1: Behind the Bastards