1 00:00:02,880 --> 00:00:07,120 Speaker 1: So when I actually went into the mosque that one 2 00:00:07,240 --> 00:00:12,520 Speaker 1: day the bomb was done. I just needed time, a 3 00:00:12,600 --> 00:00:15,000 Speaker 1: time and date, which I'd already decided was going to 4 00:00:15,040 --> 00:00:18,440 Speaker 1: be during Ramadan, which is the holy month, because it's 5 00:00:18,520 --> 00:00:22,560 Speaker 1: kind of like Catholics and Christmas Mass, right, everybody's there. 6 00:00:23,120 --> 00:00:28,680 Speaker 2: So there was the biggest opportunity for the greatest about 7 00:00:28,680 --> 00:00:31,880 Speaker 2: a carnage and damage on that day. 8 00:00:31,920 --> 00:00:33,920 Speaker 1: It was going to be a Friday afternoon during the 9 00:00:33,960 --> 00:00:36,839 Speaker 1: month of Ramadan, because I knew they would all be 10 00:00:36,920 --> 00:00:39,080 Speaker 1: there and you were going to plant this thing at 11 00:00:39,080 --> 00:00:41,000 Speaker 1: their place and hello of them. I already had a 12 00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:42,879 Speaker 1: place for it. Everything. It was just a matter of 13 00:00:42,920 --> 00:00:43,400 Speaker 1: just waiting. 14 00:00:43,760 --> 00:00:48,440 Speaker 2: You realize that that would make you no different than 15 00:00:48,479 --> 00:00:51,479 Speaker 2: the men who flew the planes into the World Trade Zone. 16 00:00:51,560 --> 00:00:51,919 Speaker 2: I know that. 17 00:00:51,960 --> 00:00:52,160 Speaker 1: Now. 18 00:00:56,160 --> 00:00:59,440 Speaker 2: Welcome to an army of normal folks. I'm built Courtney, 19 00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:04,120 Speaker 2: normal guy. I'm a husband, I'm a father, I'm an entrepreneur, 20 00:01:04,240 --> 00:01:07,040 Speaker 2: and I've been a football coach an Inner City Memphis. 21 00:01:07,040 --> 00:01:10,360 Speaker 2: And the last part it unintentionally led to an oscar 22 00:01:10,480 --> 00:01:15,080 Speaker 2: for the film about our team. It's called Undefeated. Guys. 23 00:01:15,120 --> 00:01:17,840 Speaker 2: I believe our country's problems will never be solved by 24 00:01:17,840 --> 00:01:20,640 Speaker 2: a bunch of fancy people in nice suits talking big 25 00:01:20,680 --> 00:01:23,880 Speaker 2: words that nobody understands on CNN and Fox, but rather 26 00:01:24,360 --> 00:01:29,199 Speaker 2: an army of normal folks us, just you and me deciding, Hey, 27 00:01:29,760 --> 00:01:33,000 Speaker 2: I can help. That's what Richard McKinney, the voice we 28 00:01:33,120 --> 00:01:37,000 Speaker 2: just heard, has done. Richard served in the Marine Corps 29 00:01:37,040 --> 00:01:41,200 Speaker 2: and Army, and his goal was to die as a 30 00:01:41,240 --> 00:01:46,920 Speaker 2: hero for killing Muslims. When he came back home to Muncie, Indiana, 31 00:01:47,440 --> 00:01:52,080 Speaker 2: he couldn't stand seeing them in his community, which led 32 00:01:52,120 --> 00:01:58,040 Speaker 2: to his plan to bomb their mosque. And then their 33 00:01:58,160 --> 00:02:01,760 Speaker 2: love stood in the way and it changed him forever. 34 00:02:02,560 --> 00:02:05,200 Speaker 2: I cannot wait for you to meet Richard. Right after 35 00:02:05,280 --> 00:02:23,320 Speaker 2: these brief messages from our general sponsors, Richard McKinney, otherwise 36 00:02:23,360 --> 00:02:25,320 Speaker 2: known as Mac, Welcome to Memphis. 37 00:02:25,040 --> 00:02:27,359 Speaker 1: Bro, Thank you, glad to be here. Glad to be here. 38 00:02:27,680 --> 00:02:31,320 Speaker 2: Drove down from Mondsey, Indiana, and the first thing you 39 00:02:31,360 --> 00:02:33,440 Speaker 2: saw when you cross the river was a big pyramid 40 00:02:33,480 --> 00:02:35,080 Speaker 2: with bass Pro on it. It blew your mind. 41 00:02:35,960 --> 00:02:37,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, only in Tennessee, right. 42 00:02:38,360 --> 00:02:40,280 Speaker 2: Joe us drive off the road going what is that? 43 00:02:40,600 --> 00:02:42,520 Speaker 2: I was like, man, what is this? Man? 44 00:02:42,800 --> 00:02:46,120 Speaker 1: Tennessee got a pyramid and the bass Pro shops into pyramid. 45 00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:49,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, oh my gosh, that's right. Well Memphis, Memphis, Egypt 46 00:02:49,600 --> 00:02:53,079 Speaker 2: on the river. Hey there you got it. I got 47 00:02:53,080 --> 00:02:56,600 Speaker 2: it now. Yeah, that's the reason. So and then we 48 00:02:56,760 --> 00:03:00,920 Speaker 2: bring you to this awesome place and cross down. This 49 00:03:01,040 --> 00:03:04,880 Speaker 2: used to be Seers. So well yeah, back you remember 50 00:03:04,919 --> 00:03:09,120 Speaker 2: back in the days when the catalogs here's catalogs. Sears, 51 00:03:09,120 --> 00:03:13,400 Speaker 2: based in Chicago, had four or five major headquarter hubs, 52 00:03:13,440 --> 00:03:16,360 Speaker 2: and Memphis was one of them. This entire thing was 53 00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:19,200 Speaker 2: the Sears headquarter for the Southeast, for all the catalogs. 54 00:03:19,240 --> 00:03:23,000 Speaker 2: And anyway, when Sears had troubles, this place was empty. 55 00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:25,600 Speaker 2: There was nobody here. This was fifteen years ago. This 56 00:03:25,720 --> 00:03:28,040 Speaker 2: was a ghost town and the neighborhood around it was 57 00:03:28,040 --> 00:03:31,560 Speaker 2: a ghost town. And they rehab this building. There's a 58 00:03:31,600 --> 00:03:34,400 Speaker 2: school in it, there's businesses in it, there's this awesome 59 00:03:34,600 --> 00:03:39,160 Speaker 2: Memphis Listening Lab in it, and it's revitalized this whole 60 00:03:39,200 --> 00:03:40,880 Speaker 2: part of the city. So it's kind of got a 61 00:03:40,880 --> 00:03:43,040 Speaker 2: cool vibe when you walk in. I know, you probably 62 00:03:43,080 --> 00:03:44,480 Speaker 2: didn't have any idea what you're walking into. 63 00:03:44,640 --> 00:03:46,840 Speaker 1: Not a clue. They even asked people, I say, hey, 64 00:03:46,880 --> 00:03:52,280 Speaker 1: where's this Memphis Listening Center? Right, Yeah, listening lab. Yeah, 65 00:03:52,640 --> 00:03:53,560 Speaker 1: that's it's. 66 00:03:53,480 --> 00:03:56,440 Speaker 2: In the Crosstown Concourse right here at the Old Seers Building, 67 00:03:56,560 --> 00:04:00,320 Speaker 2: Memphis and cool cool vibing here, So welcome to us. 68 00:04:01,520 --> 00:04:09,240 Speaker 2: For those listening, Mac's story is gonna sound like a 69 00:04:09,280 --> 00:04:13,480 Speaker 2: country music song at the very beginning. Then it's gonna 70 00:04:13,480 --> 00:04:17,040 Speaker 2: sound like something you've seen on the movies in the middle, 71 00:04:17,640 --> 00:04:19,720 Speaker 2: and then the end is going to blow your mind. 72 00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:27,920 Speaker 2: I Mac, your man who's lived many lives, and it's 73 00:04:28,040 --> 00:04:30,799 Speaker 2: lucky probably to have one, considering some of your service. 74 00:04:30,880 --> 00:04:33,919 Speaker 2: But first we're gonna get into all that. Where are 75 00:04:33,920 --> 00:04:35,800 Speaker 2: you from? How'd you grow up? Well? 76 00:04:35,880 --> 00:04:40,760 Speaker 1: I grew up in Cincinnati, Cincinnat, Ohio. Was an inner 77 00:04:40,760 --> 00:04:45,080 Speaker 1: city kid, went to a grade school in the mid 78 00:04:45,120 --> 00:04:50,560 Speaker 1: seventies and Cincinnati was still going through desegregation. But because 79 00:04:50,640 --> 00:04:53,440 Speaker 1: I grew up in the system, I was part of 80 00:04:53,880 --> 00:04:55,800 Speaker 1: the desegregation. I was the only white kid on my 81 00:04:55,839 --> 00:04:56,400 Speaker 1: school bus. 82 00:04:56,520 --> 00:04:56,760 Speaker 2: Right. 83 00:04:56,920 --> 00:05:00,960 Speaker 1: He's a socioeconomic thing. Right. That's where I lived, and 84 00:05:01,920 --> 00:05:06,799 Speaker 1: it was I liked it in a lot of ways, 85 00:05:07,320 --> 00:05:09,200 Speaker 1: but I'm glad I got out. 86 00:05:09,440 --> 00:05:13,080 Speaker 2: Were If that's the case with your mom and dad 87 00:05:13,080 --> 00:05:15,440 Speaker 2: at home? Uh, my mom and dad had been divorced. 88 00:05:15,440 --> 00:05:16,000 Speaker 1: My whole life. 89 00:05:16,400 --> 00:05:16,760 Speaker 2: Got it. 90 00:05:16,839 --> 00:05:19,320 Speaker 1: So did you grow up with your mom? My mom, 91 00:05:19,400 --> 00:05:21,560 Speaker 1: and my grandparents got it? Yeah? 92 00:05:21,600 --> 00:05:25,320 Speaker 2: And I would assume from what you're saying, probably pretty 93 00:05:25,360 --> 00:05:27,400 Speaker 2: blue collar, lower income. 94 00:05:27,520 --> 00:05:31,200 Speaker 1: Very blue collar. My grandfather couldn't even read and write. 95 00:05:31,480 --> 00:05:34,159 Speaker 2: Really. Yeah, And what about your mom? What you do? 96 00:05:34,680 --> 00:05:38,000 Speaker 1: She was on disability I remember most of my life. 97 00:05:38,120 --> 00:05:44,039 Speaker 1: She had some serious issues with dependency and psychological disorders, 98 00:05:44,080 --> 00:05:46,840 Speaker 1: you know here and there, a lot of anxiety stuff. 99 00:05:46,920 --> 00:05:51,000 Speaker 1: She had a few jobs, mainly secretarial type stuff. That's 100 00:05:51,040 --> 00:05:54,000 Speaker 1: back in the age of typewriters and stuff, right right. 101 00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:56,880 Speaker 1: You just know it's not going to happen anymore. So 102 00:05:57,400 --> 00:05:58,960 Speaker 1: was your dad involved in your life much? 103 00:05:59,160 --> 00:05:59,400 Speaker 2: Yeah? 104 00:05:59,520 --> 00:06:03,120 Speaker 1: Actually was he actually owned a business. He was a 105 00:06:03,160 --> 00:06:05,480 Speaker 1: meat cutter by trade. He was in the Marine Corps 106 00:06:05,520 --> 00:06:08,120 Speaker 1: for four years, got out, went to trade school to 107 00:06:08,320 --> 00:06:10,960 Speaker 1: actually get certified as a meat cutter, and he owned 108 00:06:10,960 --> 00:06:13,400 Speaker 1: his own shop there in a place called New Richmond. 109 00:06:13,080 --> 00:06:17,839 Speaker 2: Ohio, right on the river. Siblings no only job, me too, 110 00:06:18,200 --> 00:06:21,599 Speaker 2: and my dad left when I was four. So I get, 111 00:06:21,920 --> 00:06:24,760 Speaker 2: I get the life. And so where you come from 112 00:06:25,040 --> 00:06:30,039 Speaker 2: is inner city, not much money at all. A mom 113 00:06:30,080 --> 00:06:32,440 Speaker 2: who sounded like she struggled a little not talking about 114 00:06:32,480 --> 00:06:35,800 Speaker 2: your momb but no, no, absolutely, a divorce, probably a 115 00:06:35,839 --> 00:06:38,400 Speaker 2: grandfather who was in your life, I. 116 00:06:38,360 --> 00:06:43,800 Speaker 1: Guess, yeah, but he was. He was a strange person. 117 00:06:44,200 --> 00:06:46,480 Speaker 1: Strange person to me. He was a strange person. He 118 00:06:46,520 --> 00:06:48,240 Speaker 1: comes from the hills, Kentucky, I get it. 119 00:06:48,560 --> 00:06:51,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, And couldn't read it right. Couldn't read it right right. 120 00:06:51,520 --> 00:06:56,000 Speaker 2: So not exactly a life of privilege or shiny castles 121 00:06:56,040 --> 00:06:58,760 Speaker 2: on the hill, No, not at all. And so in 122 00:06:58,920 --> 00:07:00,000 Speaker 2: high school, what'd you get into? 123 00:07:01,320 --> 00:07:03,680 Speaker 1: Well? Sports, you know, because my whole thing was I 124 00:07:03,720 --> 00:07:05,400 Speaker 1: was going to be a pro ball player. I didn't 125 00:07:05,440 --> 00:07:09,400 Speaker 1: even pick a sport yet. I played tomorrow. I played football, 126 00:07:09,440 --> 00:07:13,000 Speaker 1: went right from turning in my equipment after the football season, 127 00:07:13,320 --> 00:07:17,120 Speaker 1: the basketball conditioning, getting done with that, and going right 128 00:07:17,160 --> 00:07:20,480 Speaker 1: to baseball. And I mean I just played sports year 129 00:07:20,560 --> 00:07:22,600 Speaker 1: round and I was going to be a pro ball player. 130 00:07:22,920 --> 00:07:23,560 Speaker 2: That was it. 131 00:07:23,880 --> 00:07:29,400 Speaker 1: Period. But about my junior year, this is right before 132 00:07:29,400 --> 00:07:32,680 Speaker 1: I ran away from home. My junior year, I had 133 00:07:32,840 --> 00:07:37,400 Speaker 1: come to the realization that, dude, listen, you're not that big. 134 00:07:38,640 --> 00:07:41,760 Speaker 1: Football's out. 135 00:07:42,160 --> 00:07:43,400 Speaker 2: You can't play basketball. 136 00:07:43,480 --> 00:07:46,280 Speaker 1: Matter of fact, I showed up for my sophomore year 137 00:07:46,280 --> 00:07:49,680 Speaker 1: for basketball tryouts. Coach put his arm around my shoulders 138 00:07:49,880 --> 00:07:51,760 Speaker 1: and said, hey, let's go talk to the swim coach. 139 00:07:51,960 --> 00:07:56,040 Speaker 1: True story, true story. That's how bad a basketball I am. 140 00:07:56,280 --> 00:08:00,960 Speaker 1: I swam that year and then baseball. And the funny 141 00:08:00,960 --> 00:08:03,920 Speaker 1: thing about baseball is is I really was not that good. 142 00:08:04,360 --> 00:08:06,680 Speaker 1: I'm left handed, so they made me a relief pitcher 143 00:08:07,080 --> 00:08:09,640 Speaker 1: because there were no left handers. You know, well, we're 144 00:08:09,640 --> 00:08:11,280 Speaker 1: gonna make him a picture. He can't throw, but we're 145 00:08:11,280 --> 00:08:14,480 Speaker 1: gonna make him a picture. And at the high school level, 146 00:08:14,480 --> 00:08:16,760 Speaker 1: I had two pitches, a fastball that really was not 147 00:08:16,840 --> 00:08:19,920 Speaker 1: fast at all and a curveball that hung about eye 148 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:22,800 Speaker 1: level for three days before it would drop. Yeah, but 149 00:08:22,920 --> 00:08:25,080 Speaker 1: I struck people out. It was amazing. It was. It 150 00:08:25,160 --> 00:08:28,280 Speaker 1: just was coaches would get opposing coaches would get so 151 00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:31,960 Speaker 1: frustrated with their players. Yeah, but you weren't going to 152 00:08:32,000 --> 00:08:34,160 Speaker 1: go play pro base I were not. I know, I 153 00:08:34,320 --> 00:08:37,160 Speaker 1: was not going to go play pro baseball. Yeah. 154 00:08:37,200 --> 00:08:41,760 Speaker 2: So what did you get into? Well, drugs, using, dealing 155 00:08:42,320 --> 00:08:43,040 Speaker 2: well both. 156 00:08:43,080 --> 00:08:46,080 Speaker 1: Eventually that's what ended my high school careers. I got 157 00:08:46,240 --> 00:08:49,600 Speaker 1: busted for selling drug dollars. Came to the school and 158 00:08:50,600 --> 00:08:52,439 Speaker 1: I have a feeling, I know, Zachly what I think 159 00:08:52,440 --> 00:08:58,040 Speaker 1: it was one of my competitors that probably probably you know, 160 00:08:58,080 --> 00:09:00,400 Speaker 1: I was selling two dollars joints man, you know, back 161 00:09:00,440 --> 00:09:02,160 Speaker 1: in the eighties, back in the early eighties. 162 00:09:02,360 --> 00:09:03,959 Speaker 2: You know, and it's not. 163 00:09:03,960 --> 00:09:07,280 Speaker 1: A big deal, but you know, and it you know, 164 00:09:07,559 --> 00:09:10,040 Speaker 1: So here I am. I got no high school education, 165 00:09:11,120 --> 00:09:13,880 Speaker 1: I don't know what to do, don't have any skills, 166 00:09:14,320 --> 00:09:17,240 Speaker 1: and I am not going to go play pro ball. 167 00:09:17,440 --> 00:09:19,760 Speaker 1: I couldn't even I don't even think i'd be allowed 168 00:09:19,800 --> 00:09:24,520 Speaker 1: to walk on a college campus. So I joined the 169 00:09:24,559 --> 00:09:25,840 Speaker 1: Marine Corps. 170 00:09:26,520 --> 00:09:30,640 Speaker 2: And I read what you said when you joined the Marines, 171 00:09:31,920 --> 00:09:34,320 Speaker 2: it was an opportunity to do something to get away 172 00:09:34,360 --> 00:09:38,320 Speaker 2: from all the life. But also you felt like maybe 173 00:09:38,360 --> 00:09:39,520 Speaker 2: it'd earn you some respect. 174 00:09:39,960 --> 00:09:44,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, because I my dad had no respect for 175 00:09:44,800 --> 00:09:47,800 Speaker 1: me whatsoever. He just didn't. I mean, I was actually 176 00:09:47,840 --> 00:09:49,959 Speaker 1: living with him at this time when I was. I 177 00:09:50,280 --> 00:09:52,079 Speaker 1: moved in with him when I was in my early 178 00:09:52,160 --> 00:09:55,280 Speaker 1: teens because my mom couldn't handle me anymore. 179 00:09:55,840 --> 00:09:57,440 Speaker 2: And you were loving the street life. 180 00:09:57,440 --> 00:10:01,160 Speaker 1: It sounds oh, absolutely absolutely. I ran streets for yeah, 181 00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:03,400 Speaker 1: it was, and I went to school when I wanted to. 182 00:10:04,080 --> 00:10:07,920 Speaker 1: You know, I had a little more structure, well, actually 183 00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:11,560 Speaker 1: a lot more structure at my dad's but I couldn't 184 00:10:11,600 --> 00:10:13,760 Speaker 1: stand it. I had a problem with authority. So this 185 00:10:13,880 --> 00:10:17,480 Speaker 1: is where the best and funniest decision that I made 186 00:10:18,120 --> 00:10:19,960 Speaker 1: at that point in my life was to join the 187 00:10:19,960 --> 00:10:26,679 Speaker 1: Marine Corps. And I had a problem with authority. So yeah, look, 188 00:10:27,000 --> 00:10:29,880 Speaker 1: straighten that out. I just knew I had to get 189 00:10:29,920 --> 00:10:33,160 Speaker 1: away because I knew, you know, even at the young 190 00:10:33,200 --> 00:10:37,560 Speaker 1: of age and being so naive about the world, that 191 00:10:38,040 --> 00:10:39,880 Speaker 1: I was going to either end up in prison or 192 00:10:39,960 --> 00:10:43,440 Speaker 1: dead eventually. I mean, because I you know, like I 193 00:10:43,520 --> 00:10:45,760 Speaker 1: tell people now, there's no four oh one K plans 194 00:10:45,800 --> 00:10:50,640 Speaker 1: being the thug. Yeah, just didn't. So Marine Corps. Marine 195 00:10:50,679 --> 00:10:53,199 Speaker 1: Corps where you can be a thug and it's allowed. 196 00:10:56,080 --> 00:11:01,120 Speaker 1: So you serve for twenty of yours. I actually retired 197 00:11:01,120 --> 00:11:03,679 Speaker 1: from the Army. You were tired for you went Marines, 198 00:11:03,720 --> 00:11:06,160 Speaker 1: then Army. Yeah, I did a hard one first, all. 199 00:11:06,120 --> 00:11:09,920 Speaker 2: Right, And I know you served in Panama, two tours 200 00:11:09,920 --> 00:11:17,960 Speaker 2: in Somalia, Bosnia, Afghanistan, and Rock and you forgot Desert 201 00:11:17,960 --> 00:11:22,160 Speaker 2: Storm the first very first one. Bro. All right, well 202 00:11:22,960 --> 00:11:24,320 Speaker 2: take me through that. 203 00:11:25,559 --> 00:11:31,000 Speaker 1: Well, I mean, so I made that fantastic decision to 204 00:11:31,080 --> 00:11:34,160 Speaker 1: get away from all the negativity and go to be 205 00:11:34,400 --> 00:11:36,400 Speaker 1: part of something a lot bigger and a lot better 206 00:11:36,480 --> 00:11:40,880 Speaker 1: than what I ever imagined. And there was no more 207 00:11:40,880 --> 00:11:43,880 Speaker 1: good decisions after that for many years, because when I 208 00:11:43,920 --> 00:11:48,560 Speaker 1: went in, I wanted to be in the infantry. Because 209 00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:53,160 Speaker 1: you know, like one of the things that really shaped 210 00:11:53,160 --> 00:11:54,959 Speaker 1: my decision a lot was Rambo. 211 00:11:56,640 --> 00:11:57,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, are you kidding me? 212 00:11:59,440 --> 00:12:02,600 Speaker 1: Okay, the original one. 213 00:12:01,800 --> 00:12:05,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, the Pacific Northwest. Were just climbing around in the 214 00:12:05,960 --> 00:12:07,040 Speaker 2: mountains and. 215 00:12:06,840 --> 00:12:09,120 Speaker 1: He's just so tough, and he' said but he learned 216 00:12:09,160 --> 00:12:12,040 Speaker 1: it all in the military. Now Rambo was in the Army. 217 00:12:12,480 --> 00:12:15,520 Speaker 1: I joined the Marine Corps. But I knew the Marine 218 00:12:15,520 --> 00:12:18,479 Speaker 1: Corps had like special special operations branches. 219 00:12:18,160 --> 00:12:20,160 Speaker 2: Right the little little wings of their. 220 00:12:20,720 --> 00:12:23,960 Speaker 1: Of their corps. And because my dad was a marine. 221 00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:26,040 Speaker 1: So again I'm still trying to get respect from my 222 00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:29,240 Speaker 1: dad by going through some of the similar things that 223 00:12:29,240 --> 00:12:31,080 Speaker 1: he went through, even though it was different. He was 224 00:12:31,120 --> 00:12:33,920 Speaker 1: in the sixties and I was in the eighties. But still, 225 00:12:34,160 --> 00:12:38,120 Speaker 1: you know, but I wanted infantry. I wanted I wanted action. 226 00:12:38,440 --> 00:12:41,640 Speaker 1: I wanted to fight, you know, because it's kind of 227 00:12:41,640 --> 00:12:44,439 Speaker 1: all I knew. I didn't want to join the military 228 00:12:44,520 --> 00:12:47,560 Speaker 1: and sit behind a desk. Hey, I don't even you know, 229 00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:51,160 Speaker 1: I couldn't even comprehend that. But I had to go 230 00:12:51,200 --> 00:12:54,160 Speaker 1: in open contract. There was no guarantee for me because 231 00:12:54,200 --> 00:12:57,400 Speaker 1: I went in with a drug waiver. Did you really Yeah, 232 00:12:57,440 --> 00:12:59,920 Speaker 1: because they they well they don't even have those anymore. 233 00:13:00,440 --> 00:13:03,400 Speaker 1: I went in with a drug waiver, admitting that I 234 00:13:03,880 --> 00:13:07,840 Speaker 1: smoked Marion one of three times. 235 00:13:06,400 --> 00:13:12,680 Speaker 2: Three times on Saturday before noon. Yeah. Yeah. 236 00:13:12,960 --> 00:13:20,840 Speaker 1: Uh but but uh so I I had to go 237 00:13:20,880 --> 00:13:23,800 Speaker 1: and open contract, which basically means is they put you 238 00:13:23,840 --> 00:13:27,480 Speaker 1: where they need you. And I was like, oh my gosh, 239 00:13:27,520 --> 00:13:33,160 Speaker 1: please please please, anything but a baker. That's an actual 240 00:13:33,240 --> 00:13:37,120 Speaker 1: job in the Marine Corps. A baker, oh man. 241 00:13:37,040 --> 00:13:38,480 Speaker 2: That time to cook the doughnuts. 242 00:13:38,600 --> 00:13:42,760 Speaker 1: I had packed my bags and just left. No not 243 00:13:42,840 --> 00:13:47,439 Speaker 1: doing that. But uh, I looked out got in combat arms, 244 00:13:48,240 --> 00:13:52,439 Speaker 1: and uh I loved it. I found a family, even 245 00:13:52,480 --> 00:13:56,319 Speaker 1: though I which, where'd you do boot camp? Paras? I 246 00:13:56,440 --> 00:13:59,559 Speaker 1: joined in Cincinnati, So that was yeah, east of the Mississippi. 247 00:13:59,679 --> 00:14:04,360 Speaker 2: And where's your first deployment? I guess station or deployment, 248 00:14:04,400 --> 00:14:05,520 Speaker 2: I don't know the right words. 249 00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:08,079 Speaker 1: After I was done with all my training, I ended 250 00:14:08,160 --> 00:14:12,560 Speaker 1: up in Okanawa, Japan for a year, which was the 251 00:14:12,559 --> 00:14:15,400 Speaker 1: beginning to the end of my first marriage. I was eighteen, 252 00:14:15,440 --> 00:14:22,120 Speaker 1: I already got married lovely, yeah exactly, and a hard 253 00:14:22,200 --> 00:14:26,480 Speaker 1: lesson learned. First letter I got when I was in Okan, 254 00:14:26,520 --> 00:14:29,360 Speaker 1: now with the first letter I had received was from 255 00:14:29,440 --> 00:14:33,440 Speaker 1: my wife, tell me she's pregnant. 256 00:14:34,080 --> 00:14:34,960 Speaker 2: I'm not going. 257 00:14:34,800 --> 00:14:40,720 Speaker 1: Home, and they actually allowed me to when the baby 258 00:14:40,800 --> 00:14:42,400 Speaker 1: was born, you know, I told her, I said, okay, 259 00:14:42,440 --> 00:14:44,440 Speaker 1: you need to notify the Red Cross when you go 260 00:14:44,560 --> 00:14:47,320 Speaker 1: into the labor you know. And then that way didn't 261 00:14:47,320 --> 00:14:48,720 Speaker 1: get a hold of me. Why I was coming back 262 00:14:48,760 --> 00:14:52,120 Speaker 1: from Korea because we did an operation in South Korea, 263 00:14:53,760 --> 00:14:57,000 Speaker 1: and when I got back, they allowed me to make 264 00:14:57,000 --> 00:15:01,120 Speaker 1: a phone calls like jail. Yeah, I mean, well I 265 00:15:01,160 --> 00:15:02,960 Speaker 1: could have made a phone call, but I'd have had 266 00:15:02,960 --> 00:15:04,440 Speaker 1: to pay for it. This is when I could go 267 00:15:04,520 --> 00:15:06,600 Speaker 1: up to like the battalion headquarters and make a phone 268 00:15:06,600 --> 00:15:08,680 Speaker 1: call out right. They said, oh, well he'll get up 269 00:15:08,680 --> 00:15:16,040 Speaker 1: a phone call. Man, really, really, kid man, seriously. The 270 00:15:16,040 --> 00:15:20,400 Speaker 1: the the hard thing about that is is that you know, yes, 271 00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:23,720 Speaker 1: we are divorced, and there was good reason but to 272 00:15:23,760 --> 00:15:26,880 Speaker 1: be honest, I had a business being married, of course 273 00:15:26,960 --> 00:15:29,720 Speaker 1: that age. But it was the fact that. 274 00:15:30,800 --> 00:15:34,960 Speaker 2: The Marine Corps always came first, always, So what did 275 00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:36,040 Speaker 2: you see your first action? 276 00:15:36,920 --> 00:15:38,520 Speaker 1: The first time I got shot at was actually in 277 00:15:38,560 --> 00:15:40,640 Speaker 1: the Philippines, the Philippines. 278 00:15:40,680 --> 00:15:42,640 Speaker 2: I didn't think anything was going on in the eighties 279 00:15:42,680 --> 00:15:43,960 Speaker 2: and the Philippines. 280 00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:48,320 Speaker 1: Corzona Kino took over power from the Marcos regime. Yeah, 281 00:15:48,760 --> 00:15:51,160 Speaker 1: and this is what started my whole. 282 00:15:51,320 --> 00:15:52,640 Speaker 2: Was this some shoes. 283 00:15:53,000 --> 00:15:57,520 Speaker 1: I'm just kidding, you know, but I know she had 284 00:15:57,800 --> 00:16:01,600 Speaker 1: so many pairs. She could have liked gave a whole 285 00:16:01,680 --> 00:16:07,120 Speaker 1: village like her, you know, shoes, right, and and but 286 00:16:07,160 --> 00:16:10,000 Speaker 1: there was a communist uprising when she took over power. 287 00:16:10,440 --> 00:16:12,560 Speaker 1: They had always been there, but they were kind of stifled, 288 00:16:12,960 --> 00:16:16,120 Speaker 1: and then they decided to start rising up. So we 289 00:16:16,160 --> 00:16:19,720 Speaker 1: went there as advisors. I had no business being it. 290 00:16:19,720 --> 00:16:21,240 Speaker 1: My name got put on a list and it was 291 00:16:21,280 --> 00:16:23,440 Speaker 1: a mistake. I should have never been on this list, 292 00:16:23,480 --> 00:16:28,360 Speaker 1: but it's what started everything for me. And because I'm 293 00:16:28,640 --> 00:16:29,960 Speaker 1: was I twenty years old? 294 00:16:30,920 --> 00:16:32,120 Speaker 2: What are you at this time? Right? 295 00:16:32,440 --> 00:16:36,040 Speaker 1: And three lance corporal yep. I had no business going 296 00:16:36,080 --> 00:16:37,640 Speaker 1: to Who am I going to advise? 297 00:16:39,440 --> 00:16:40,600 Speaker 2: Right? Right? Right? 298 00:16:40,840 --> 00:16:43,040 Speaker 1: I got put on this list, man, and I was off. 299 00:16:43,080 --> 00:16:45,520 Speaker 1: And then when I got there, you know, there was 300 00:16:45,640 --> 00:16:47,560 Speaker 1: there was because at that time, there was a lot 301 00:16:47,600 --> 00:16:49,880 Speaker 1: of you know, security, secrecy and all that stuff, and 302 00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:53,760 Speaker 1: so well, you're here, you get read in and make 303 00:16:53,800 --> 00:16:56,160 Speaker 1: the best of it. And I remember it was funny 304 00:16:56,160 --> 00:17:01,440 Speaker 1: because we were actually walking through with the Filipinos, going 305 00:17:01,480 --> 00:17:04,280 Speaker 1: through the jungles and doing patrols. Right, they were called 306 00:17:04,280 --> 00:17:10,320 Speaker 1: harassment patrols. I've never been to your house, I've never 307 00:17:10,359 --> 00:17:14,560 Speaker 1: been on your property. I'm gonna come there not knowing anything, 308 00:17:14,640 --> 00:17:18,760 Speaker 1: and I'm gonna harass you. You see, Yeah, exactly, you 309 00:17:19,160 --> 00:17:22,480 Speaker 1: see how that works? Yeah, and and and uh yeah, 310 00:17:22,520 --> 00:17:25,520 Speaker 1: I remember we and they didn't try to hurt anybody, 311 00:17:25,560 --> 00:17:29,080 Speaker 1: I don't think, because nobody got nobody got shot. But 312 00:17:29,480 --> 00:17:32,520 Speaker 1: they they made us hunker down. I remember I was twenty. Yeah, 313 00:17:32,520 --> 00:17:35,960 Speaker 1: I was twenty, And I remember I became one with 314 00:17:36,040 --> 00:17:42,240 Speaker 1: a tree and I think I pete a little. I'm 315 00:17:42,240 --> 00:17:43,840 Speaker 1: not gonna lie. 316 00:17:44,040 --> 00:17:49,720 Speaker 2: Yeah. What about the adrenaline, It was like. 317 00:17:51,640 --> 00:17:53,199 Speaker 1: It was like a person who smokes crack. It was 318 00:17:53,240 --> 00:17:53,880 Speaker 1: like the first hit. 319 00:17:55,800 --> 00:18:00,399 Speaker 2: It's weird. I've had folks that I've talked to that 320 00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:05,560 Speaker 2: have served that have said it frightens you and it 321 00:18:05,640 --> 00:18:10,480 Speaker 2: excites you, and it's a weird adrenaline rush. That you 322 00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:15,440 Speaker 2: really can't understand until you've been there. But in some guys, 323 00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:16,240 Speaker 2: that lights a fire. 324 00:18:17,920 --> 00:18:22,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, I instantly become. 325 00:18:22,760 --> 00:18:26,240 Speaker 2: Add to the military, to the adrenaline, to the old, 326 00:18:26,359 --> 00:18:32,880 Speaker 2: the whole thing. And now a few messages from our 327 00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:37,280 Speaker 2: general sponsors. But first, I really hope you'll consider becoming 328 00:18:37,320 --> 00:18:42,800 Speaker 2: a premium member at Normalfolks dot us. Y'all, the army 329 00:18:42,880 --> 00:18:46,520 Speaker 2: has twenty eight premium members right now, and we're setting 330 00:18:46,560 --> 00:18:50,639 Speaker 2: an initial goal of getting one hundred premium members. I 331 00:18:50,680 --> 00:18:54,080 Speaker 2: hope you'll be open to joining us. Why because by 332 00:18:54,119 --> 00:18:56,520 Speaker 2: becoming one for ten bucks a month or one thousand 333 00:18:56,560 --> 00:18:59,480 Speaker 2: dollars a year, you can get access to cool benefits 334 00:18:59,520 --> 00:19:02,560 Speaker 2: like bonus episodes, a yearly group call, and even a 335 00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:08,200 Speaker 2: one on one call with me. You're so lucky. But frankly, guys, 336 00:19:08,240 --> 00:19:11,520 Speaker 2: premium memberships help us to grow the army that our 337 00:19:11,560 --> 00:19:14,720 Speaker 2: country desperately needs right now. So I hope you'll think 338 00:19:14,720 --> 00:19:35,320 Speaker 2: about it. We'll be right back. Where were you when 339 00:19:35,320 --> 00:19:38,600 Speaker 2: you discovered a mass grave? Oh that was in Bosnia, 340 00:19:39,200 --> 00:19:40,240 Speaker 2: so tell me about that. 341 00:19:40,320 --> 00:19:46,159 Speaker 1: So my team we were actually there to Our first 342 00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:52,119 Speaker 1: priority was to capture the war criminals, Mosevich Karate and 343 00:19:52,160 --> 00:19:56,040 Speaker 1: some of those other guys right to control them, put them. 344 00:19:56,119 --> 00:19:58,480 Speaker 1: We had a base. It was an Eagle base. It 345 00:19:58,520 --> 00:20:02,760 Speaker 1: was in Tusa Tusla b And we had a base 346 00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:06,080 Speaker 1: within a base that was a secure base. It basically 347 00:20:06,119 --> 00:20:09,120 Speaker 1: a jail. What we would do is we would capture them, 348 00:20:09,480 --> 00:20:12,679 Speaker 1: hold on to them until somebody from the Hague came 349 00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:15,800 Speaker 1: and picked them up and took them for trial. That 350 00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:18,520 Speaker 1: was our first priority. We never did get any of 351 00:20:18,600 --> 00:20:21,000 Speaker 1: those guys. We actually ended up catching a couple of 352 00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:26,600 Speaker 1: al Qaeda guys. Yeah, because during the Civil War, you 353 00:20:26,640 --> 00:20:29,000 Speaker 1: have to even though it wasn't religious war, you have 354 00:20:29,040 --> 00:20:33,440 Speaker 1: to understand the Bosnians were primarily Muslim and the Serbians 355 00:20:33,440 --> 00:20:35,000 Speaker 1: were primarily Christian Orthodox. 356 00:20:35,880 --> 00:20:38,920 Speaker 2: It wasn't a holy war, no, but it was very 357 00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:41,120 Speaker 2: much a Christian versus Muslim thing. 358 00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:43,840 Speaker 1: Well the medium made it that way, okay, yeah, yeah, 359 00:20:43,960 --> 00:20:46,760 Speaker 1: Well that's what I've read. Yeah, yeah, and and and 360 00:20:46,800 --> 00:20:49,680 Speaker 1: that's the and that's the problem. It really wasn't it 361 00:20:50,160 --> 00:20:53,720 Speaker 1: was it was land, and it was it was who 362 00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:56,680 Speaker 1: controlled what which really you. 363 00:20:56,640 --> 00:20:59,919 Speaker 2: Know, but it was violent and nastiest. It was very nasty. 364 00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:04,040 Speaker 1: It was very nice. It brought back memories from World 365 00:21:04,040 --> 00:21:06,960 Speaker 1: War Two, especially with captured Bosnians. Man, it was like 366 00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:13,000 Speaker 1: concentration camps. Our second or my second priority was pr 367 00:21:13,480 --> 00:21:16,840 Speaker 1: because I don't know, people tell me that, I don't 368 00:21:16,880 --> 00:21:18,720 Speaker 1: know how to identify it. But people tell me I 369 00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:23,879 Speaker 1: have a lot of charisma, right, so yeah, which was 370 00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:25,879 Speaker 1: good for me on the weekend when it comes to 371 00:21:25,880 --> 00:21:29,119 Speaker 1: picking up women. That was right. That was that was always. 372 00:21:29,280 --> 00:21:33,120 Speaker 1: You know, you can cut any of this, that's cool, 373 00:21:36,359 --> 00:21:39,560 Speaker 1: but you know, I mean, yeah, I used to, you know, 374 00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:44,840 Speaker 1: I used it a lot. I but but they set 375 00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:51,399 Speaker 1: me up for these radio interviews and I had an 376 00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:56,639 Speaker 1: interpreter who was a Bosnian Muslim, not a practicing Muslim. 377 00:21:56,840 --> 00:21:57,880 Speaker 1: She was Muslim by birth. 378 00:21:58,040 --> 00:21:59,800 Speaker 2: That was it. Cultural? 379 00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:02,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, cultural she was. She was very much a young 380 00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:03,520 Speaker 1: European girl in. 381 00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:05,719 Speaker 2: Her twenties born to some Muslim parents. 382 00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:10,560 Speaker 1: Exactly exactly. But I hated her. But you never know 383 00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:13,919 Speaker 1: that if you saw us together. I hated her. I 384 00:22:13,960 --> 00:22:17,120 Speaker 1: hated because she was Muslim. I saw it as a thing, 385 00:22:17,359 --> 00:22:20,400 Speaker 1: right And I'll get into I'll explain that a little 386 00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:23,160 Speaker 1: bit in a second. But we come up with this 387 00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:27,280 Speaker 1: thing because you know, I'll talk and I'll just keep going. Well, 388 00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:30,680 Speaker 1: she has to interpret, so we would end up putting 389 00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:33,600 Speaker 1: our hands on the table. We'd hold hands, and she 390 00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:35,960 Speaker 1: squeezed my hand when she wanted me to shut up 391 00:22:36,200 --> 00:22:39,280 Speaker 1: so she could yeah, and then squeeze it again when 392 00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:40,520 Speaker 1: it was okay for me to talk again. It was, 393 00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:42,240 Speaker 1: it was. It was a great method. But of course, 394 00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:44,199 Speaker 1: you know, I got teased about it a lot. I 395 00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:45,480 Speaker 1: was like, man, that girl don't want none to do. 396 00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:50,760 Speaker 2: So about that. It was a funny story. But it's not. 397 00:22:51,320 --> 00:22:53,240 Speaker 1: No, it was not a funny story. It was nothing 398 00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:56,520 Speaker 1: funny about it. Let's touch on that mass grade first. 399 00:22:56,760 --> 00:22:59,920 Speaker 1: So the powers that be, whoever it was, had discovered 400 00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:06,240 Speaker 1: a mass grave two hundred and fifty odd remains. 401 00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:10,560 Speaker 2: I worry that mass grave is not a great enough illustration. 402 00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:16,160 Speaker 2: And I've wondered this. I guess they take a traco 403 00:23:16,320 --> 00:23:19,959 Speaker 2: or a baco and dig a massive hole pretty much, 404 00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:26,480 Speaker 2: and they execute people and some are clothed, some or 405 00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:30,560 Speaker 2: not right. And that's what was in the grave. 406 00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:32,440 Speaker 1: You could see where some of them there was clothes 407 00:23:33,119 --> 00:23:34,720 Speaker 1: to the skeletons. 408 00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:39,040 Speaker 2: But I mean, had they uncovered it, had it been 409 00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:40,719 Speaker 2: covered and they uncovered it? 410 00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:42,879 Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know how they Yeah, I don't know 411 00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:45,520 Speaker 1: anything about how it got discovered. I have not a 412 00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:50,280 Speaker 1: clue to stink. No, not really really that where we 413 00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:52,199 Speaker 1: was that kind of stunk anyway, because it's a lot 414 00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:53,000 Speaker 1: of rule area. 415 00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:58,440 Speaker 2: But did you look, man, You take ninety nine percent 416 00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:00,680 Speaker 2: of the population, You walk them up to the edge 417 00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:03,960 Speaker 2: of a hole with two hundred and fifty bodies in 418 00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:08,680 Speaker 2: it that have been some mutilated, probably some tortured all 419 00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:14,240 Speaker 2: or most executed, some close, some not. Some in certain 420 00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:19,400 Speaker 2: levels of decay. Most people are going to be throwing up, 421 00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:22,720 Speaker 2: hiding their eyes, freaking out. How to affect you? 422 00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:27,960 Speaker 1: I didn't care. There was this international like CSI team 423 00:24:28,359 --> 00:24:31,040 Speaker 1: that was there right collecting data, and they were it 424 00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:32,920 Speaker 1: was pretty neat to watch them work, you know, stuff 425 00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:33,600 Speaker 1: that they were doing. 426 00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:35,479 Speaker 2: Were they trying to identify the bodies? 427 00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:38,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, and they're. 428 00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:40,119 Speaker 2: All Muslim, they're all from the Muslim side of this. 429 00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:42,880 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, I think it's safe to say they were. Yeah. 430 00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:48,520 Speaker 1: Because the actual village itself was a Serbian populated village, 431 00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:52,160 Speaker 1: got it. See the Serbs actually some Serbs actually live 432 00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:54,720 Speaker 1: in Bosi and they have like their own villages, right, 433 00:24:56,040 --> 00:24:58,679 Speaker 1: And the I guess she was in charge or whatever, 434 00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:04,040 Speaker 1: really nice looking African British woman and I'm there, I 435 00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:07,400 Speaker 1: got my guys. I already put a perimeter around nobody 436 00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:09,960 Speaker 1: in because we didn't want any of the serbs coming 437 00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:11,720 Speaker 1: in to mess with what was going on. We didn't 438 00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:13,480 Speaker 1: want them to mess with any of the workers that 439 00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:15,959 Speaker 1: were doing what they were doing. So I set all 440 00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:18,560 Speaker 1: my guys out, made a perimeter, and I stayed in 441 00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:23,159 Speaker 1: the center with the hum vy, the radio, and you know, 442 00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:25,399 Speaker 1: I had all my as we call it, battle rattle 443 00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:27,280 Speaker 1: and my M four right up here, and you know, 444 00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:30,879 Speaker 1: and then she comes up to me and I just 445 00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:36,040 Speaker 1: lit a cigarette and she goes, it's so hard to 446 00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:42,159 Speaker 1: understand how people can do this to each other. And 447 00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:44,760 Speaker 1: I took a dragging my cigarette and it blew out 448 00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:49,000 Speaker 1: the smoke and I says, not really. She goes, what 449 00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:54,000 Speaker 1: do you mean they're all Muslim. That's what I felt, 450 00:25:56,440 --> 00:25:58,800 Speaker 1: which comes into play. Everybody knew me, knew I didn't 451 00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:02,760 Speaker 1: like Muslims. Did not let it affect my job. And 452 00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:06,480 Speaker 1: my interpreter, Sarah. I took care of her because she 453 00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:09,320 Speaker 1: took care of us. She's very good. She took care 454 00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:11,879 Speaker 1: of us. She kept us out of trouble, which was 455 00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:17,479 Speaker 1: a full time job, just with me, and I was 456 00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:20,840 Speaker 1: not going to allow anything to happen to her. Why 457 00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:24,520 Speaker 1: she's with me. We were in the child hall talking, 458 00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:31,080 Speaker 1: me and some other NCOs. We were talking and they 459 00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:34,800 Speaker 1: confronted me with my hatred. They said, man, you gotta 460 00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:39,080 Speaker 1: quit hating on these people so much. And I said, why, 461 00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:45,440 Speaker 1: they're all evil man? And he said, well, what about Sarah. 462 00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:45,640 Speaker 2: Man? 463 00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:46,359 Speaker 1: You like Sarah? 464 00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:49,720 Speaker 2: I said, I do like Sarah, but. 465 00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:52,760 Speaker 1: She still got to go, And if it comes time 466 00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:55,439 Speaker 1: to do it, I'll try to be there to do 467 00:26:55,480 --> 00:26:57,160 Speaker 1: it myself. I'll just put a nine to the back 468 00:26:57,200 --> 00:26:59,840 Speaker 1: of her head. She won't feel nothing, but she's got 469 00:26:59,840 --> 00:27:06,000 Speaker 1: to go. Why because she's Muslim? Why that was my 470 00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:07,440 Speaker 1: only reason? She's Muslim? 471 00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:11,080 Speaker 2: That was it? But was it that all you'd seen 472 00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:15,080 Speaker 2: is videos of people's head getting chopped off and all 473 00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:18,680 Speaker 2: this other stuff, and you equated any Muslim to that. 474 00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:22,400 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, so you were programmed. 475 00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:25,040 Speaker 1: But I took it to another level because you know, 476 00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:26,600 Speaker 1: a lot of people try to point their finger at 477 00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:28,960 Speaker 1: the military. They they put this hate in me, right, 478 00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:31,680 Speaker 1: They did not put this hate in me. The military 479 00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:37,359 Speaker 1: is too busy. They ain't got time to create haters. Okay, Well, yes, 480 00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:39,199 Speaker 1: but that's what they're supposed to do. 481 00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:44,320 Speaker 2: But honestly, a civilized society may not want to admit it, 482 00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:48,679 Speaker 2: But the inconvenient truth is we're all safer because guys 483 00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:49,600 Speaker 2: like you were on the wall. 484 00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:53,520 Speaker 1: It is a quandary, it really is. 485 00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:56,400 Speaker 2: It is a quandary. But I'll be honest with you. 486 00:27:57,240 --> 00:27:59,160 Speaker 2: I sleep better at night knowing it well. 487 00:27:59,840 --> 00:28:03,000 Speaker 1: And that's true, and that's why we are afforded things 488 00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:04,280 Speaker 1: in this country that we have. 489 00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:10,200 Speaker 2: But we also don't want those people who we hold 490 00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:14,000 Speaker 2: in high esteem and we reserve the highest honors of 491 00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:16,520 Speaker 2: honor for like the Medal of Honor and things like that, 492 00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:23,760 Speaker 2: to also hate. No, And so it's this weird line 493 00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:29,840 Speaker 2: that listen, man, I know the rest of your story 494 00:28:29,840 --> 00:28:32,080 Speaker 2: and the rest of our listeners need to stick with us, 495 00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:34,160 Speaker 2: and they'll get to the redemption and a little bit. 496 00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:38,720 Speaker 2: But it is uncomfortable for me to know that you 497 00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:41,240 Speaker 2: had an en four strap to you and we're serving 498 00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:47,120 Speaker 2: our country and had no empathy for two hundred and 499 00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:53,840 Speaker 2: fifty victims of murder who was willing to put a 500 00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:57,520 Speaker 2: nine to his own interpreter's head simply because she was Muslim. 501 00:28:57,640 --> 00:28:59,320 Speaker 2: That is hard to hear. 502 00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:05,240 Speaker 1: It used to be really hard to talk about. Now 503 00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:06,080 Speaker 1: I feel a need to. 504 00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:12,840 Speaker 2: We'll get to that. So was that that was before 505 00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:18,040 Speaker 2: Afghanistan and Iraq? Yeah, so you're just getting tuned up, bro. 506 00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:38,720 Speaker 1: So we went on an operation April fifteenth, two thousand 507 00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:39,000 Speaker 1: and four. 508 00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:44,960 Speaker 2: Okay, so Bosnia not eleven, not eleven hadn't happened yet? 509 00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:48,360 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it had happened. I'm sorry on the two 510 00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:52,560 Speaker 2: thousand and one. So did not eleven lead you to 511 00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:57,760 Speaker 2: hate the Muslim community or is it already there? 512 00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:02,200 Speaker 1: I don't know, And that's one question I have been 513 00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:04,560 Speaker 1: asked since I think first time I ever appeared in 514 00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:07,880 Speaker 1: front of somebody. What caused you to hate so much? 515 00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:14,440 Speaker 1: Honestly don't know. I honestly don't know. It wasn't nine 516 00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:16,000 Speaker 1: to eleven, you know. 517 00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:18,960 Speaker 2: For you, it really wasn't. It wasn't. It was for 518 00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:19,640 Speaker 2: a lot of people. 519 00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:22,840 Speaker 1: Well yeah, yeah. And it also ended up being a 520 00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:27,760 Speaker 1: huge population booster for Islam because especially throughout America and 521 00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:31,440 Speaker 1: the Western world, because this happened and people are like, 522 00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:36,080 Speaker 1: who are these Muslims? I need to figure this thing out. 523 00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:37,560 Speaker 1: I need to learn about that, And they did, and 524 00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:39,000 Speaker 1: they ended up converting. 525 00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:44,440 Speaker 2: Which we'll get to that. But okay, so Bosnia nine eleven, 526 00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:48,640 Speaker 2: two thousand and four. Now you are how long in 527 00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:50,520 Speaker 2: the military at this point? 528 00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:53,560 Speaker 1: Oh gosh, I had a two year break between the 529 00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:57,320 Speaker 1: Marine Corney Army, which I'm so lucky I'm still alive 530 00:30:57,360 --> 00:30:57,560 Speaker 1: for that. 531 00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:03,160 Speaker 2: But I mean, you're a veteran. Yeah, and are you 532 00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:04,640 Speaker 2: a sergeant at this time? Probably? 533 00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:08,400 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, all right, sergeant in Bosnian up until 534 00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:12,240 Speaker 1: the time I became a staff sergeant, every rank I 535 00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:12,960 Speaker 1: had I had at. 536 00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:21,040 Speaker 2: Least twice, meaning you got busted down three times. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 537 00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:27,640 Speaker 2: the charisma. Yeah, so you leave Bosnia, you've got this 538 00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:34,200 Speaker 2: unbelievable hatred for Muslims. I also believe you must have 539 00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:40,120 Speaker 2: had a really deep seated love for your country. It 540 00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:40,760 Speaker 2: was everything. 541 00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:45,400 Speaker 1: I tell people that, for lack of a better example, 542 00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:51,400 Speaker 1: the flag was my cross. I was a die hard nationalist, 543 00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:54,560 Speaker 1: not a white nationalist ian. That's the thing, because I 544 00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:58,280 Speaker 1: didn't grow up with color racism. Well I did, my 545 00:31:58,360 --> 00:32:02,440 Speaker 1: grandfather big time race. But I always thought, and I 546 00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:05,920 Speaker 1: would always, even as a young kid, would say, why 547 00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:08,480 Speaker 1: is he acting like this? You know, he wanted to 548 00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:10,600 Speaker 1: spank me one time for playing with as he called 549 00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:12,240 Speaker 1: I hate to say this word, I'll say it once 550 00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:18,400 Speaker 1: colored kids in the neighborhood. We lived in a predominantly 551 00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:20,200 Speaker 1: black neighborhood. Who else am I playing with? 552 00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:21,240 Speaker 2: Right? 553 00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:25,080 Speaker 1: But you know, kids, they don't see that stuff anyway. 554 00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:28,840 Speaker 1: And I always grew up remembering that man. Gosh man, 555 00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:33,280 Speaker 1: I love him, a Paul Man, but he was ignorant. 556 00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:37,600 Speaker 1: I mean, he just was about so much, man, and 557 00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:41,400 Speaker 1: I didn't. I didn't care what color you were. I 558 00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:48,600 Speaker 1: never did. I just care where you were from. And 559 00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:52,400 Speaker 1: if you're not from here, I want to know why 560 00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:54,440 Speaker 1: you're here and when are you leaving. 561 00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:59,760 Speaker 2: You were that devout like you said, yeah, no what 562 00:32:59,840 --> 00:33:02,800 Speaker 2: you're cross? It was, and you were ready to die 563 00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:03,120 Speaker 2: for it. 564 00:33:03,800 --> 00:33:06,840 Speaker 1: I used to at night when I would be on deployment. 565 00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:10,280 Speaker 1: A lot of times, I would just set and I 566 00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:13,040 Speaker 1: would it was almost like a prayer, almost to it. 567 00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:14,920 Speaker 1: I wouldn't really say a prayer, but it was almost 568 00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:17,880 Speaker 1: like a prayer. It was like a prayer type mindset. 569 00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:22,200 Speaker 1: I take the flag off my shoulder and just sit 570 00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:26,880 Speaker 1: there and stare at it. Sit down and stare at it, like, man. 571 00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:29,600 Speaker 2: This is everything, devoutly committed. 572 00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:30,160 Speaker 1: Yeah. 573 00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:40,479 Speaker 2: Two Corps country the mission your men. Yeah, okay, so 574 00:33:40,520 --> 00:33:44,120 Speaker 2: now you end up in Afghanistan with that mentality that 575 00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:48,160 Speaker 2: baked into you your hate for Muslims. Nine to Eleven's happened. 576 00:33:49,080 --> 00:33:52,479 Speaker 2: I mean you're probably locked and loaded. 577 00:33:52,760 --> 00:33:56,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, I And I was happy because now I can 578 00:33:56,120 --> 00:34:01,240 Speaker 1: actually rid the world of these Muslims, whereas in Bosny 579 00:34:01,320 --> 00:34:04,600 Speaker 1: I was more or less almost protecting him, really right, 580 00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:07,160 Speaker 1: and I like that never set good with me when 581 00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:12,120 Speaker 1: I made that statement to that, to that, uh British lady, 582 00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:16,480 Speaker 1: Yeah we got we got relieved in place. 583 00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:21,759 Speaker 2: You were no longer the voice of the army. Right. No. 584 00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:24,879 Speaker 1: They sent my team back and my team didn't get 585 00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:26,759 Speaker 1: any kind of but I took a lot of heat. 586 00:34:27,120 --> 00:34:31,440 Speaker 1: I had to go talk to the Sardin major and 587 00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:34,320 Speaker 1: Sartin majors, like you know, it was it was funny 588 00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:35,960 Speaker 1: in a way because you know, I go into his 589 00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:38,919 Speaker 1: office that you know, Sartin became report his order start Major. 590 00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:44,959 Speaker 1: He just went off. But my cursing, I mean every 591 00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:47,319 Speaker 1: other word, well, military language is a little different too, 592 00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:49,799 Speaker 1: a you know, I tell people, I said, man, I said, 593 00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:51,000 Speaker 1: I had to learn how to talk when I come 594 00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:54,040 Speaker 1: to civilian world, because you know, if you don't if 595 00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:56,080 Speaker 1: you don't put the F word at least once in 596 00:34:56,120 --> 00:34:59,719 Speaker 1: a sentence, is an incomplete sentence. And this guy was 597 00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:02,880 Speaker 1: just one off man. He said and shut that door, 598 00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:12,759 Speaker 1: slam the door. Sit down, Mac, Yeah, I want some coffee. Man, Hey, 599 00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:15,080 Speaker 1: you can't be saying that stuff. 600 00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:20,640 Speaker 2: It's something. When I was reading this, I wondered, you 601 00:35:20,719 --> 00:35:23,640 Speaker 2: weren't the lone ranger, bro. There were other people that 602 00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:25,839 Speaker 2: felt that way, right, I. 603 00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:28,520 Speaker 1: Don't know of any, really, I mean, it would be 604 00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:33,360 Speaker 1: very naive of me to say no, but I yeah, 605 00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:34,799 Speaker 1: I didn't know of any. 606 00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:36,880 Speaker 2: So it wasn't openly discussed. 607 00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:39,920 Speaker 1: Oh no, no, you know, because. 608 00:35:40,719 --> 00:35:45,799 Speaker 2: There's also Muslims serving in the United States military, right, Well, 609 00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:48,080 Speaker 2: I mean I didn't. I didn't know of any. 610 00:35:48,239 --> 00:35:50,120 Speaker 1: Not that there weren't any, but I didn't know of any. 611 00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:55,400 Speaker 1: And so it was it was kind of you know, 612 00:35:56,320 --> 00:36:00,600 Speaker 1: I had created my own little world, and I was 613 00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:03,520 Speaker 1: very respected in the middle even no, even when I 614 00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:06,719 Speaker 1: would get busted, i'd still be respected, you know, because 615 00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:09,719 Speaker 1: what I got busted for usually was was overall was 616 00:36:09,760 --> 00:36:12,960 Speaker 1: a good thing. It just went against the rules. 617 00:36:13,640 --> 00:36:14,680 Speaker 2: It happens. Right. 618 00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:18,640 Speaker 1: We had a saying, is I'd rather be I'd rather 619 00:36:18,680 --> 00:36:20,720 Speaker 1: be judged by twelve and carried by six. 620 00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:22,520 Speaker 2: Got it. 621 00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:26,760 Speaker 1: So, But of course that didn't really apply to me anyway, 622 00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:28,520 Speaker 1: because really, to be honest with you, I was looking 623 00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:34,239 Speaker 1: for a way to die. My goal, my destiny was 624 00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:36,960 Speaker 1: to die in combat. Because when you come back to 625 00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:40,000 Speaker 1: this country and a flag drap coffin, you were forever 626 00:36:40,040 --> 00:36:42,160 Speaker 1: known as a hero. It don't matter, it don't matter 627 00:36:42,239 --> 00:36:47,840 Speaker 1: what you did, how you did it. You're a hero, period, done, period. 628 00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:53,160 Speaker 1: And that's what really fueled my hatred when I when 629 00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:57,920 Speaker 1: I had gotten injured and as I even say today, 630 00:36:57,760 --> 00:37:00,360 Speaker 1: they kicked me out. 631 00:37:00,560 --> 00:37:02,880 Speaker 2: Well let's get to that. So you're an Afghanistan or 632 00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:04,040 Speaker 2: a rock I don't know which one. 633 00:37:04,200 --> 00:37:07,359 Speaker 1: AFGHANISTANTUS. So I went from Bosnia, which is actually another 634 00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:10,440 Speaker 1: story too. We went on an operation there April fifteenth, 635 00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:13,200 Speaker 1: two thousand and four, and it was an actual mission. 636 00:37:13,239 --> 00:37:15,560 Speaker 1: We got intel that we were going to get Melosovich. 637 00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:19,399 Speaker 1: By the way, his code name was Elvis, no kidding, yeah, 638 00:37:19,719 --> 00:37:24,799 Speaker 1: because yeah, yeah yeah. And I was the third guy 639 00:37:24,840 --> 00:37:31,239 Speaker 1: through the door, really and he wasn't there but a 640 00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:34,040 Speaker 1: priest and the priest's son was there. Well, they got 641 00:37:34,120 --> 00:37:39,400 Speaker 1: up from the table pointing pistols at us. Well that 642 00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:42,759 Speaker 1: didn't work out. Well, we gotta do what we gotta do, right, 643 00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:49,919 Speaker 1: So operation's over and one one funny tidbit. This got 644 00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:52,160 Speaker 1: me in a lot of trouble. Oh my gosh. But 645 00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:57,520 Speaker 1: of course, you know, Smoke's cleared everything. Okay, look for Intel, 646 00:37:58,239 --> 00:38:00,359 Speaker 1: you know, is there any hard drives, any laptop, any 647 00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:03,120 Speaker 1: paperwork we're laying around. We scoop it all up, take 648 00:38:03,160 --> 00:38:05,120 Speaker 1: it back and let somebody who cares look at it, right, 649 00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:11,440 Speaker 1: And I had to do it. I got on the 650 00:38:11,560 --> 00:38:13,480 Speaker 1: radio and said, Elvis has left the building. 651 00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:21,160 Speaker 2: Yep, did you do that? I really did that. 652 00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:25,040 Speaker 1: Yet. No, it wasn't a whoops. I knew what I 653 00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:26,440 Speaker 1: was doing, but I had to say it. I had 654 00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:28,880 Speaker 1: to say it, man, I had to say it anyway. 655 00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:33,600 Speaker 1: So we went back. The Serbian government press charges, press 656 00:38:33,640 --> 00:38:37,759 Speaker 1: murder charges against the team I was with and myself. Right, 657 00:38:38,320 --> 00:38:42,759 Speaker 1: So American government, their infinite wisdom, said hey, you guys 658 00:38:42,800 --> 00:38:47,640 Speaker 1: are going to Afghanistan. So we went right to Afghanistan 659 00:38:47,840 --> 00:38:50,160 Speaker 1: and they could tell the service are not even here. 660 00:38:51,200 --> 00:38:51,480 Speaker 2: Right. 661 00:38:52,239 --> 00:38:54,640 Speaker 1: I was really bothers me because I would like to 662 00:38:54,640 --> 00:38:56,480 Speaker 1: go back to Bosnia. But I don't know if that's 663 00:38:56,560 --> 00:38:57,440 Speaker 1: if that's still. 664 00:38:57,200 --> 00:38:57,920 Speaker 2: Hanging out there. 665 00:38:58,600 --> 00:39:00,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know if that's still hanging out there, man, 666 00:39:00,600 --> 00:39:04,160 Speaker 1: So you know, but uh so, yeah, So we went 667 00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:06,600 Speaker 1: to Afghanistan and that's when I got into well, actually 668 00:39:06,600 --> 00:39:08,520 Speaker 1: I went I came back to the stage for some 669 00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:11,680 Speaker 1: training and I will mention this. I won't talk about it, 670 00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:13,480 Speaker 1: but I will mention this. And I got trained to 671 00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:15,879 Speaker 1: uh do interrogations. 672 00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:22,960 Speaker 2: Got it. That's the same time that the Cuban jail 673 00:39:23,160 --> 00:39:25,680 Speaker 2: was starting to get going, right, the Cuban. 674 00:39:25,480 --> 00:39:30,399 Speaker 1: Jam Oh yeah, okay, I'm thinking jam. 675 00:39:30,760 --> 00:39:33,040 Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, it's a jail in Cube. I couldn't remember 676 00:39:33,040 --> 00:39:35,400 Speaker 2: the name of the band, yeah, Timable Bay, so you know. 677 00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:39,120 Speaker 2: And it really was just enhanced interrogation techniques. 678 00:39:39,160 --> 00:39:41,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, we had to do all that. Yeah, we learned 679 00:39:41,239 --> 00:39:43,319 Speaker 1: that and and and what a lot of people don't 680 00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:45,320 Speaker 1: understand is that in. 681 00:39:45,280 --> 00:39:45,719 Speaker 2: Order to. 682 00:39:47,800 --> 00:39:50,920 Speaker 1: You were taught how to do it because it was 683 00:39:50,920 --> 00:39:51,360 Speaker 1: done to you. 684 00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:54,840 Speaker 2: Oh that's how you learned. 685 00:39:55,000 --> 00:39:58,839 Speaker 1: Yeah, which is not unlike like you know, your police department, Right, 686 00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:04,440 Speaker 1: upper spray, you get sprayed, right, stun devices, you get stunned. 687 00:40:04,480 --> 00:40:07,239 Speaker 1: That's what that's. You know, in waterboarding, you. 688 00:40:07,239 --> 00:40:10,960 Speaker 2: Got waterboarding, you got waterboard. How bad is it? 689 00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:14,920 Speaker 1: It's different, it's different. It's well, no, I mean, I 690 00:40:14,920 --> 00:40:19,680 Speaker 1: mean it's it's horrible. It is literally horrible. But the mindset. 691 00:40:19,760 --> 00:40:22,799 Speaker 1: See here, here's the thing. I'm in school. You know 692 00:40:22,880 --> 00:40:26,440 Speaker 1: they're not gonna kill you. Yeah, this is going to end. 693 00:40:27,239 --> 00:40:30,200 Speaker 1: You know. When I went through a Seer school, which 694 00:40:30,280 --> 00:40:34,640 Speaker 1: is about you know, survival and evasion and all that stuff. 695 00:40:34,840 --> 00:40:37,239 Speaker 1: The thing is that you will get captured during that. 696 00:40:37,560 --> 00:40:40,399 Speaker 1: You cannot evade. These people know what they're doing. You're 697 00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:41,640 Speaker 1: gonna get captured right. 698 00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:43,480 Speaker 2: In the school. In the school, and then you're gonna 699 00:40:43,520 --> 00:40:46,520 Speaker 2: learn how to deal with being captured. I showed back. 700 00:40:46,640 --> 00:40:50,080 Speaker 1: I showed up after a week, back to my command 701 00:40:50,560 --> 00:40:52,479 Speaker 1: with a black eye and a bust of lip. 702 00:40:53,080 --> 00:40:56,440 Speaker 2: Wow, it was a right of passage. 703 00:40:57,080 --> 00:41:02,640 Speaker 1: It was an honorable thing. But even though I went 704 00:41:02,680 --> 00:41:07,399 Speaker 1: through all that, I never told anybody anything because why 705 00:41:07,640 --> 00:41:10,480 Speaker 1: I knew it was going to end. This is not 706 00:41:10,680 --> 00:41:13,080 Speaker 1: every day for me, This is not my life. I 707 00:41:13,120 --> 00:41:16,960 Speaker 1: know this is going to end. So bear down, take 708 00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:19,759 Speaker 1: the hits and go back and hold your head. 709 00:41:19,800 --> 00:41:20,000 Speaker 2: Eye. 710 00:41:21,800 --> 00:41:22,359 Speaker 1: No big deal. 711 00:41:22,760 --> 00:41:27,520 Speaker 2: But now you're trained. But now I'm trained, quote trained. Yeah, 712 00:41:28,040 --> 00:41:32,360 Speaker 2: so and I guess in your mind, waterboarding a Muslim 713 00:41:32,960 --> 00:41:34,920 Speaker 2: you didn't care, Oh. 714 00:41:34,800 --> 00:41:37,879 Speaker 1: Gosh, no, no, matter of fact, I remember several times 715 00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:40,640 Speaker 1: when there was others that would pull me off of people, 716 00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:51,600 Speaker 1: and it's it's really sad that I even have a 717 00:41:51,640 --> 00:41:55,480 Speaker 1: memory of myself like this, but I enjoyed what I 718 00:41:55,520 --> 00:42:00,399 Speaker 1: did and it hurts to day. 719 00:42:04,239 --> 00:42:07,640 Speaker 2: And that concludes Part one of my conversation with Mac, 720 00:42:07,719 --> 00:42:10,200 Speaker 2: and I promise that you do not want to miss 721 00:42:10,239 --> 00:42:14,080 Speaker 2: part two. It's now available to listen to as his 722 00:42:14,200 --> 00:42:19,960 Speaker 2: hatred gets transformed by love. Together, guys, we can change 723 00:42:19,960 --> 00:42:23,360 Speaker 2: the country, but it starts with you. I'll see in 724 00:42:23,440 --> 00:42:24,399 Speaker 2: part two.