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Speaker 1: It's sponsorship time. But you know what, it's really great

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Speaker 1: when you get a sponsor that you already use. And

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Speaker 1: guess what. Quint's is something that in the Todd household

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Speaker 1: we already go to. Why do we go to Quint's

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Speaker 1: Because it's a place you go where you can get

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Speaker 1: some really nice clothes without the really expensive prices. And

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Speaker 1: one of the things I've been going through is I've

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Speaker 1: transitioned from being mister cot and tie guy to wanting

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Speaker 1: a little more casual but to look nice doing it.

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Speaker 1: Is I've become mister quarter zip guy. Well guess what.

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Speaker 1: Guess who's got amazing amounts of quarter zips? It is Quints.

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Speaker 1: I have gotten quite a few already from there. The

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Speaker 1: stuff's really nice. They have Mongolian cashmere sweaters for fifty dollars.

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Speaker 1: I just know, hey, cashmere, that's pretty good. You don't

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Speaker 1: normally get that for fifty bucks or less. Italian wool

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Speaker 1: coats that look and feel like designer the stuff. I'll

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Speaker 1: be honest, right, you look at it online, you think, okay,

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Speaker 1: is this really as nice as it looks? Well, when

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Speaker 1: I got it, I was like, oh, this is real quality.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, I'm going to end up making sure I

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Speaker 1: take it to my dry cleaner so I don't screw

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Speaker 1: it up when I clean it. But I've been quite

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Speaker 1: impressed in Hey, it's holiday season. It is impossible to

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Speaker 1: I'm telling you you're going to find something that is

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Speaker 1: hundred and sixty five day returns quints dot com slash chuck.

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Speaker 1: Use that code. My guest today as someone who's been

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Speaker 1: at the center of American politics, business tech uh for

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Speaker 1: the better part of a couple of decades, and because

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Speaker 1: there's so much happening in the world of business that

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Speaker 1: is intersecting with the world of politics, and Washington in

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Speaker 1: some ways is becoming an epicenter of business in a

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Speaker 1: derivative way, because it's frankly about a whole bunch of

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Speaker 1: companies trying to figure out what it takes to keep

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Speaker 1: Washington out of their business. But that in itself is

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Speaker 1: a big business. So my guest is Bradley Tusk. He's

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Speaker 1: a political strategist turned investor. He lives in this world

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Speaker 1: in between in a political side. He was the campaign

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Speaker 1: manager for Michael Bloomberg. And when Michael Bloomberg decided he

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Speaker 1: wanted a third term, which I wonder if in hindsight

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Speaker 1: he ever. I want to tell anybody who wants a

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Speaker 1: third term, don't do it. Yeah, third terms never go.

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Speaker 2: I'm trying. I was trying to sit here and think

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Speaker 2: of a good third term.

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Speaker 1: There's none, Bradley, there's none. Ask Mario Cuomo whether he

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Speaker 1: should have run for a third term. Ask Andrew Cuomo

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Speaker 1: whether he should have been thinking about a third term.

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Speaker 1: Third term. I Tim Walls is running for a third term.

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Speaker 1: I want to say, don't do it. There's no good

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Speaker 1: that comes from it. If you've if you've succeeded enough

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Speaker 1: that a third term is viable. There's nowhere to go

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Speaker 1: but down.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I saw a study once it said that after

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Speaker 2: seven years, no matter who the chief executive is, people

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Speaker 2: are ready to move on. And that's like every Taco system,

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Speaker 2: whether it's a dictator or a mayor or a governor

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Speaker 2: or anything else.

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Speaker 1: Right, look at our own history. I mean, I'm a believer.

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Speaker 1: And this will get to a little bit of our

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Speaker 1: conversation here a little bit. But you know, I think

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Speaker 1: any Democrat that is still consumed with Trump is sort

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Speaker 1: of wasting their time. And I don't mean this. Look Trump,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of things he's doing that you that

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Speaker 1: you may that may impact your life, and you've got

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Speaker 1: to care about it. I get it, But I don't

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Speaker 1: think he's you know, we're about to have a debate

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Speaker 1: about what the post Trump world's going to look like.

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Speaker 1: And I got to think people need to be focused

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Speaker 1: on that because he's been in our lives for a decade.

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Speaker 1: And guess what, nobody ever lasts that long. We're at

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Speaker 1: the tail end, right, the Reagan Bush eraw basically ended

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Speaker 1: with the nineteen ninety tax deal.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 1: You know, Eisenhower lasted, you know, you know, his era

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Speaker 1: was about a decade, Kennedy, Johnson a decade, Nixon even

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Speaker 1: less than that. I mean, you know, Obama sort of,

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Speaker 1: you know, but it just we don't we sort of

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Speaker 1: wear out. And if you look at the modern era

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Speaker 1: of our presidents going back since World War Two, there's

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Speaker 1: a reason that sort of a movement sort of petered

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Speaker 1: out right in that eight to ten year mark in

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Speaker 1: some form or another, and we're ten years with Trumpere.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Man, I think the question is to me, the

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Speaker 2: things that he's doing that will go away when he

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Speaker 2: goes away, and the things that he's done that will last,

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Speaker 2: of which some might prove to be good, but a

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Speaker 2: lot of it might prove to be pretty harmful long

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Speaker 2: term the area. And maybe this is where kind of

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Speaker 2: my perspective from the business side is a little different

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Speaker 2: than the typical person in the political world is I

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Speaker 2: don't like all the rule of law stuff, but I

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Speaker 2: think that that ends when he ends right. That is

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Speaker 2: very much a product of him specifically, Whereas some of

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Speaker 2: the steps he's taking around the economy really do worry

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Speaker 2: me from a much longer perspective as an investor, because

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Speaker 2: if I were China and I said I want to

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Speaker 2: put in the Manchurian candidate, and I want to undermine

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Speaker 2: the long term strength of the US, our economy, one

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Speaker 2: of the things you would really go after. So what

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Speaker 2: are the things to me that make our economy unique.

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Speaker 2: It's free trade, its intellectual property, it's rule of law,

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Speaker 2: it's independent markets, independent data. It is getting the very

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Speaker 2: best people through immigration. So a lot of the fundamental

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Speaker 2: things that make our economy truly unique, Investing in R

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Speaker 2: and D, investing in higher ed, all of that are

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Speaker 2: all things that Trump, for whatever reason, has really tried

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Speaker 2: to undermine. So I worry more about the impact of

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Speaker 2: just taking our strengths and undermining all of them than

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Speaker 2: whateverything he has said today that on truth social that

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Speaker 2: makes everyone upset. I don't care about that stuff.

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Speaker 1: No, I mean, to me, the biggest I've always said

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Speaker 1: that there's the presidency. Actually there's three different jobs wrapped

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Speaker 1: up in one. You're being elected to lead your party,

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Speaker 1: you're being elected to command our armed forces as commander

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Speaker 1: in chief, and you're being elected to be leader of

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Speaker 1: the free world. And he has chosen not to be

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Speaker 1: leader of the free world. And that is something that

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Speaker 1: the public doesn't realize is a problem until it's gone.

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Speaker 1: It's a very hard in fact, when you tell people

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Speaker 1: you want to be leader of the free world, No,

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Speaker 1: we don't want that. We don't want to be the

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Speaker 1: beat cop. But as I always say, you know, I

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Speaker 1: always say when people say I don't want to be

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Speaker 1: the world's policeman, I'm like, yeah, but somebody's going to be.

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Speaker 1: Would you rather be us or another country? You may

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Speaker 1: not want us to be the world's cop, but you're

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Speaker 1: not gonna like it if China is right.

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Speaker 2: Which then how do you explain the other day him

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Speaker 2: sending allowing the Vida to sell you know, the h

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Speaker 2: two hundred GPUs to China, right like it? There are

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Speaker 2: things that I don't get. So for example, he says that,

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Speaker 2: and look if you were a full free trade you know, absolutist, right.

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Speaker 2: But then the next day they issue an executive order saying, oh,

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Speaker 2: States can't regulate AI because it's a national security issue.

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Speaker 2: It can't be an ob security issue. If you just

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Speaker 2: took the most valuable thing that your biggest rival would

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Speaker 2: want and allow the to go to the.

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Speaker 1: Well, let's talk about this is actually the heart of

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Speaker 1: the conversation. I want to have which is, you know,

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Speaker 1: the business community in general has been frustrated with the

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Speaker 1: last two Democratic administrations, sure for too much regular, too

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Speaker 1: much regulation, too much red tape, things like this. And

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Speaker 1: I get the appeal of, Hey, isn't it great that

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Speaker 1: you don't have to have an army of lobbyists on

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Speaker 1: Capitol Hill? You just have to go into the Oval

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Speaker 1: office write one check or rite you know, or make

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Speaker 1: one board seat change whatever. You only have to placate

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Speaker 1: one individual as a hell of a lot easier than

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Speaker 1: placating you know, thirty members of Congress or ten senators

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Speaker 1: and all of that stuff. So I understand the efficiency

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Speaker 1: aspect of this, But are we doomed here because business

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Speaker 1: such as an easy relationship right now with Trump's version

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Speaker 1: of the Republican Party, that they're now going to expect

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Speaker 1: this kind of treatment from all politicians going forward. That

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Speaker 1: this is something that we can't put back in the bottle.

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Speaker 1: And I, you know, I'm sorry, I don't trust the

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Speaker 1: tech industry with AI without guardrails, because I saw what

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Speaker 1: the tech industry did was social media, which totally destroyed

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Speaker 1: our information ecosystem. So yeah, but this is the world

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Speaker 1: you live in, and you're navigating, so you tell me, so, I.

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Speaker 2: Would say, for me, the efficiency argument probably doesn't work

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Speaker 2: because it's it's too risky and too variable. Right, you

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Speaker 2: were dealing just with winning the favor of one very

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Speaker 2: mercurial person and who seems to a lot of the

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Speaker 2: time agree with the last person he spoke to about something,

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Speaker 2: and so I don't like the notion of basing an

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Speaker 2: investment strategy or regulatory strategy around that. And to me,

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Speaker 2: the right analogy is when I have a company that

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Speaker 2: I'm investing in that has some sort of new disruptive

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Speaker 2: technology that either we're taking on an entrenched interest and

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Speaker 2: there's a regulatory fight, or we're cruitting an entirely new

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Speaker 2: type of industry AI, crypto, flying cars, whatever, and you

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Speaker 2: need to build a regulatory framework. There's often the question

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Speaker 2: of do you go federal or do goo state? We

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Speaker 2: usually choose to go state by state, which is wildly inefficient. Right,

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Speaker 2: we're talking about fifty different bills or whatever it is

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Speaker 2: that we rules, whatever it might be that we have

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Speaker 2: to create or pass. However I can get outcomes. So

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Speaker 2: in twenty fifteen, the House Energy Subcommittee, on a bipartisan

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Speaker 2: basis passed unanimously legislation to begin the regulation of autonomous vehicles.

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Speaker 2: So right now, the US federal government has done nothing

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Speaker 2: to figure out how to regulator deal with self driving

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Speaker 2: cars or trucks or anything else. The bill passed the

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Speaker 2: subcommittee honesty and has never moved since, nor has federal

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Speaker 2: dot issued any sort of rules whatsoever as to how

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Speaker 2: this should work.

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Speaker 1: This is for presidential administrations.

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Speaker 2: Correct, right and at the same time in states that

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Speaker 2: you can like or not like any individual states rules

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Speaker 2: around autonomous vehicles, but they have them right, and you

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Speaker 2: can get to an outcome and even if you don't

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Speaker 2: get the president you want in one state, you have

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Speaker 2: fifty bytes at the apple. So oftentimes we're looking at

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Speaker 2: something and saying, Okay, where do we think is the

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Speaker 2: right starting point to launch this thing? Based on partly

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Speaker 2: the economics, so the market you know, and evermarally starts

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Speaker 2: in California, in New York and Texas, but also from

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Speaker 2: a political standpoint, where can we win? Because you know,

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Speaker 2: one of the things that when when I invest in

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Speaker 2: an early stage tech startup, I genuinely believe that people

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Speaker 2: are going to really like the product or the service

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Speaker 2: or otherwise I'm not deploying the capital or making the

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Speaker 2: investment in the first place, and so like. For example,

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Speaker 2: the very first tech company I ever did was Uber,

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Speaker 2: starting in twenty eleven. And my view, which was the

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Speaker 2: same as Travis's view, was people are really gonna like this,

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Speaker 2: So we just need to get this thing up and

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Speaker 2: running wherever we can show people how much better it

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Speaker 2: is in the taxi system, and then they will fight

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Speaker 2: for it. And in every market where we prove it,

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Speaker 2: it gets that much easier in the next market. And

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Speaker 2: that basically it was a big fight, and it was

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Speaker 2: city by city in that case, but it turned out

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Speaker 2: to be right. So I generally think the right strategy

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Speaker 2: to legalize most technology actually occurs at the unicipal or

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Speaker 2: state level, and not in Washington.

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Speaker 1: It's always been the I mean, look at the recreational

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Speaker 1: marijuana movement, the medical marijuana movement, same sex marriage. Right,

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Speaker 1: we've in some ways to create critical mass to convince

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Speaker 1: Congress that hey, you should get involved in this, you know,

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Speaker 1: having it emanate. I mean, that's the beauty of federalism, right,

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Speaker 1: Like that is that is supposed to be the beauty

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Speaker 1: of the system, which is why I'm glad to see

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Speaker 1: there's bipartisan concern about a moratorium on state regulations with AI,

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Speaker 1: and it it is you know that this is I

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Speaker 1: think this is where if I were, if I were

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Speaker 1: in this industry, I wouldn't want this. I mean, look

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Speaker 1: at the public right now. The public approval ratings of

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Speaker 1: AI are plummeting. Right we are, compared to the rest

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Speaker 1: of the world, more dystopian about AI than most other

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Speaker 1: civil societies. I would argue that has a lot to

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Speaker 1: do with how involved our polarizing president is with the industry.

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Speaker 1: I actually think if he were less involved, there'd be

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Speaker 1: fewer doom and gloomers about AI.

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Speaker 2: With two caddiats, one is I actually think the political

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Speaker 2: tsunami and AI hasn't even hate.

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Speaker 1: I agree twenty eight is going to be that. I

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Speaker 1: think it's I think the fear I believe the single

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Speaker 1: biggest issue in twenty eight, and we'll see it a

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Speaker 1: little bit in twenty six. He is going to be

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Speaker 1: fear of AI displacement.

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Speaker 2: Well displaced on our jobs, combined with so every data

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Speaker 2: center requires so much compute and so much energy that

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Speaker 2: they're expecting it to consumption to double. We're certainly that

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Speaker 2: doubling supply, which means consumers electric builds are going to skyrocket.

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Speaker 2: We already saw a little bit of this in Georgia.

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Speaker 1: Virginia, I mean Louden County. Man. You know, they were

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Speaker 1: making all this money lead some land on data centers.

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Speaker 1: It is now like you know, it's a they've declared

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Speaker 1: war on data centers.

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Speaker 2: I think we're going to see laws passing states this

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Speaker 2: year that say that localities cannot issue permits and zoning

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Speaker 2: for data centers without proof that there will not be

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Speaker 2: a corresponding price increase for consumers and electric bills. And

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Speaker 2: so you're right, But we had a world where let's

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Speaker 2: say that unemployment and the job numbers today, I think

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Speaker 2: further to except that they were valid. Further you know,

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Speaker 2: support of this thesis that if job displacement keeps going up,

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Speaker 2: and unemployment keeps rising and rising gets even potentially double digits,

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Speaker 2: and electric prices keep going up, and because of Tariff's

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Speaker 2: other consumer prices keep going up, and you know, only

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Speaker 2: five thirty guys like Sam Altman become trillionaires, but the

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Speaker 2: rest of the world's you know, that's of the country

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Speaker 2: city of eighteen percent unemployment. That's the French revolution man,

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Speaker 2: and I don't think either party necessarily understands that or

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Speaker 2: sees it coming. I think one, you know, Trump in

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Speaker 2: his view is like, doesn't matter. The only goal is

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Speaker 2: to get your hands on as much as you can

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Speaker 2: before you die. So therefore this at least fits with

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Speaker 2: his worldview. Democrats, I don't think have any plan at

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Speaker 2: all from one I can tell.

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Speaker 1: No, I don't think they do either, and it strikes

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Speaker 1: me and I'm curious. Look, I take it you're trying

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Speaker 1: to help Democrats be more pro business.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I mean, in part because that's how.

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Speaker 1: You would describe your you know, your sort of your

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Speaker 1: altruistic goals here.

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Speaker 2: Often times, and I think, you know, not counting what

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Speaker 2: I do out of my foundation, which is totally separate.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, and I think oftentimes I feel like, and

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Speaker 2: you might appreciate this more than most people. Both sides

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Speaker 2: are so dug in that they miss the underlying point. Right.

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Speaker 2: So you have these Silicon Valley types who are now

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Speaker 2: very powerful Washington a Mark Injuries or someone like that, right,

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Speaker 2: and they hate regulation and their Libertarians and that sort

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Speaker 2: of sounds great in theory, no rules, but in reality

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Speaker 2: you can't build multi multi billion dollar industries. In the

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Speaker 2: absence of all structure, you need a certain amount of

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Speaker 2: rules and regulation. Crypto, right needs a certain amount of

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Speaker 2: regulation to separate the coin basis of the world the

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Speaker 2: circles of the world. Companies that I've invested in with

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Speaker 2: total scams, right, And because there's a lot of fraud

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Speaker 2: in the crypto world, and there's also a lot of

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Speaker 2: genuine companies that you can decide whether or not buying

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Speaker 2: crypto is a good idea. That's up to the individual.

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Speaker 2: But crypto itself only works because there is some level

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Speaker 2: of regulation that says this exchange is permissible, this exchange

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Speaker 2: is not right, so you need that. But then, on

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Speaker 2: the other hand, democrats, by sort of playing to their

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Speaker 2: extremes that all capitalism and all wealth is inherently corrupt

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Speaker 2: and evil in some way totally missed the point because

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Speaker 2: people need to make a living, and people are aspirational

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Speaker 2: and want to do well, and so just vilifying everyone

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Speaker 2: doesn't work either. And the reality is regulation is neither

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Speaker 2: inherently good nor bad. It's how it's applied. Like, let

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Speaker 2: me give an example. I was driving once from Santa

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Speaker 2: Barbara to Alla, and I'm going down the Pacific Coast Highway,

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Speaker 2: and I'm appreciating how beautiful it is, because you'd have

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Speaker 2: to be something really wrong with you not to do

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Speaker 2: that right. And the thing that hit me was, Okay,

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Speaker 2: what I'm seeing is from my car window the ocean.

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Speaker 2: The reason why is that they are not gas stations

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Speaker 2: and you know, Chipolis and whatever else blocking the view

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Speaker 2: because of regulation. So in that case, I would say,

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Speaker 2: a good regulation, I didn't get to LA and I

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Speaker 2: run into all these homeless encampments. Now again, again that's

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Speaker 2: the product of regulation. Bad regulation in that case, those

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Speaker 2: are regulations that make constructing affordable housing way too expensive

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Speaker 2: and difficult, and people don't have anywhere to live as

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Speaker 2: a result. So basically, zoning regulation on the same street

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Speaker 2: right resulted in a net positive at one part of

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Speaker 2: it and negative in the other. And anyone on either

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Speaker 2: side who just declares unilaterally that something is inherently good

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Speaker 2: or bad just doesn't understand what they're talking.

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Speaker 1: Having good life insurance is incredibly important. I know from

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Speaker 1: personal experience. I was sixteen when my father passed away.

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Speaker 1: We didn't have any money. He didn't leave us in

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Speaker 1: the best shape. My mother, single mother now widow, myself sixteen,

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Speaker 1: trying to figure out how am I going to pay

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Speaker 1: for college? And lo and behold, my dad had one

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Speaker 1: life insurance policy that we found wasn't a lot, but

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Speaker 1: it was important at the time, and it's why I

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Speaker 1: was able to go to college. Little did he know

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Speaker 1: how important that would be in that well, guess what.

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Speaker 1: That's why I am here to tell you about Ethos Life.

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Speaker 1: family is protected even if the worst comes to pass.

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Speaker 1: Ethos is an online platform that makes getting life insurance

348
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Speaker 1: one hundred percent online. There's no medical exam require you

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Speaker 1: just answer a few health questions online. You can get

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Speaker 1: a quote in as little as ten minutes, and you

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Speaker 1: can get same day coverage without ever leaving your home.

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Speaker 1: You can get up to three million dollars in coverage,

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Speaker 1: and some policies start as low as two dollars a

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Speaker 1: day that would be billed monthly. As of March twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty five, Business Insider named Ethos the number one no

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Speaker 1: medical exam instant life insurance provider. So protect your family

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361
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Speaker 1: com slash chuck. Application times vary and the rates themselves

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Speaker 1: may vary as well, but trust me, life insurance is

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Speaker 1: something you should really think about, especially if you've got

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Speaker 1: a growing family. You know, it's funny, I keep it

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Speaker 1: feels as if the Democrats are looking for the twenty

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Speaker 1: first century version of Bill Clinton, who who struck this

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Speaker 1: balance right now. He did it out of necessity. Democrats

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Speaker 1: had lost three straight presidential elections, all of them were blowouts.

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Speaker 1: It was sort of you kind of had to have

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Speaker 1: a Democrat who acknowledged at that point in time. And

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Speaker 1: I have a friend of mine who we argue, is

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Speaker 1: the country center right or are the institutions center right right?

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Speaker 1: The constitution sort of arguably gives the minority a bit.

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Speaker 1: You know, you could our rules give the current structure

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Speaker 1: the right side of the spectrum has more advantages. I

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Speaker 1: could argue fifty years ago that same structure gave sort

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Speaker 1: of the Democrats a little bit more. But at some

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Speaker 1: point that is the structure that we live under. But

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Speaker 1: Bill Clinton sort of you know want, Hey, we should

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Speaker 1: have a rules based, opportunity focused society, right like you know,

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Speaker 1: should be fair, equal access and opportunity, and I remember

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Speaker 1: responsibility and opportunity, right, that balance between the two. I

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Speaker 1: guess you know. I could say Obama tried to get

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Speaker 1: that messaging, and he was better about it by twenty eleven,

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Speaker 1: twenty twelve. Frankly out of necessity, right he was. He

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Speaker 1: had a tough reelection, and he borrowed more of the

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Speaker 1: Bill Clinton language or the Teddy Roosevelt language of the

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Speaker 1: Square Deal things like that. It seems as if we

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Speaker 1: just haven't found the politician to meet the moment that

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Speaker 1: we're in. I think we all know them. We want

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Speaker 1: to be both aspirational but with a I think we

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Speaker 1: want a stronger safety net, and we haven't figured out

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Speaker 1: how to. Donald Trump said, hey, I can do both,

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Speaker 1: but he couldn't. Right, he doesn't really have the He

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Speaker 1: doesn't really have a political party behind him that actually

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Speaker 1: wants to do both. And I think there are those

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Speaker 1: in the Business Committee that don't believe the left wants

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Speaker 1: to create what you said, a society that allows for wealth,

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Speaker 1: right right, Yes, they want the strong social safety net.

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Speaker 1: So with Ultimately, what we really want is strong safety

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Speaker 1: net and a realistic path.

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Speaker 2: And look, it's harder stand the other day, right, So,

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Speaker 2: capitalism as a system, to me, I think almost just

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Speaker 2: incontrovertibly is the greatest system ever created because if you

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Speaker 2: look at the last eighty years since World War Two,

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Speaker 2: three billion people who were living in extreme poverty now

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Speaker 2: have clean drinking water and electricity and less infant mortality

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Speaker 2: and longer life expectancy in higher literacy. You know all

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Speaker 2: those stats, right, So unquestioningly none of that happens without

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Speaker 2: globalization and capitalism. Capitalism, when taken into its full logical extreme,

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Speaker 2: which is kind of what we tend to have here,

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Speaker 2: often results in a lot of unhappiness and a lot

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Speaker 2: of people who are frustrated with the system. Because if

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Speaker 2: the only ultimate goal to be successful and happy is

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Speaker 2: to accumulate as much status and wealth as possible by definition,

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Speaker 2: ninety nine percent of people can't be in the one percent,

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Speaker 2: and those ninety nine percent are upset. So then you

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Speaker 2: look at it say, okay, well does Finland or someone

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Speaker 2: have it right, because it's capitalism, but with a much

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Speaker 2: stronger social safety net, like you said, so, yes, people

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Speaker 2: there if you look at say the World Happiness Report,

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Speaker 2: are exponentially happier because both they feel compelled to need

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Speaker 2: less and they have more on the on the floor.

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Speaker 2: But when you look at the last thirty years or

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Speaker 2: so and look at all of the innovation in the

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Speaker 2: world that has emerged, basically none of it has come

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Speaker 2: from Europe right other than Spotify, and there's not a

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Speaker 2: giant tech company that's been invented. So if you were

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Speaker 2: to say, Okay, the US will be Scandinavia, as the

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Speaker 2: Left I think would like to see the case, yes,

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Speaker 2: you will have a higher floor for people, and I

432
00:24:06,119 --> 00:24:08,679
Speaker 2: believe in that. But at the same time, there is

433
00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:12,600
Speaker 2: something about our system that is incredibly unique and that

434
00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:16,880
Speaker 2: encourages the kind of innovation that has lifted the billions

435
00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:20,119
Speaker 2: of extremely poor people that in theory the lefts you

436
00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:22,720
Speaker 2: care about the most out of poverty.

437
00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:25,040
Speaker 1: Well, I do think I'm one of those who believes

438
00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:28,760
Speaker 1: it's because we're a nation and immigrants that we that

439
00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:32,040
Speaker 1: if we if we have I think what you're I

440
00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:34,439
Speaker 1: think we could we would already be Scandinavia if we

441
00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:39,000
Speaker 1: weren't continuing to have fairly open doors, meaning if we

442
00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:42,639
Speaker 1: weren't importing more people who want it, who are looking

443
00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:45,679
Speaker 1: for the American dream. Like in some ways third and

444
00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:49,480
Speaker 1: fourth generation Americans are more satisfied than first and second

445
00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:50,360
Speaker 1: generation of Americas.

446
00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:53,399
Speaker 2: So would you say then that, let's say we have

447
00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:58,840
Speaker 2: so I would argue, which have exponentially higher legal immigration? Right,

448
00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:02,480
Speaker 2: perfect world. You know who was at the quotas the

449
00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:05,159
Speaker 2: Bureau of Labor Stistics, because they would say, okay, the

450
00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:07,240
Speaker 2: construction industry has this whole.

451
00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:10,040
Speaker 1: Hospitality this by the way, along with the Social Security

452
00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:16,399
Speaker 1: Administration where because we need new workers to fund Social Security, correct, right.

453
00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:18,960
Speaker 2: You need tens of millions potentially of people. And that's

454
00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:22,040
Speaker 2: not at all exclusive with having strong borders. But the

455
00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:25,280
Speaker 2: question is if we said we're going to keep bringing

456
00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:27,560
Speaker 2: in the greatest talent from all over the world, and

457
00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:29,720
Speaker 2: if we do that, we're always going to have the

458
00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:31,840
Speaker 2: kind of innovation we need because those are I'm a

459
00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:34,080
Speaker 2: first generation America and I know I was raised in

460
00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:35,840
Speaker 2: an immigrant house, so I know exactly what this is.

461
00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:38,080
Speaker 1: You like, right, right, It's always like you were I

462
00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:40,359
Speaker 1: mean education. First look, I grew up in Miami, an

463
00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:45,000
Speaker 1: immigrant community where it was just you felt it all around.

464
00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:49,159
Speaker 1: Everybody in that community even frankly, even the domestic you know,

465
00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:53,160
Speaker 1: even those second third generation Americans like myself. You moved

466
00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:56,040
Speaker 1: to Miami for opportunity. Nobody was a native of there.

467
00:25:56,080 --> 00:25:58,240
Speaker 1: You were there for opportunities. So it had it had

468
00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:01,160
Speaker 1: an immigrants mentality, which means it hustlers. Everybody hustle.

469
00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:04,480
Speaker 2: So let's say that we really increase that, which again

470
00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:06,359
Speaker 2: does not in any way have to me not having

471
00:26:06,359 --> 00:26:08,560
Speaker 2: strong border security. They're not mutual exclusive at all. But

472
00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:10,520
Speaker 2: let's say that we said we are going to radically

473
00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:13,600
Speaker 2: increase legal immigration so that the people who are the

474
00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:17,200
Speaker 2: hustlers are constantly coming in. Right, if you did that,

475
00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:20,119
Speaker 2: could you have the kind of social safety net that

476
00:26:20,119 --> 00:26:26,240
Speaker 2: Scandinavia has without deterring the innovation that America has because

477
00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:29,960
Speaker 2: that combination of the new people constantly coming in takes

478
00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:30,920
Speaker 2: care of that problem.

479
00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:34,359
Speaker 1: Well, it depends on when you make them eligible for

480
00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:35,000
Speaker 1: the safety net.

481
00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:37,080
Speaker 2: Now, right, Oh, fair point.

482
00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:41,280
Speaker 1: And I think you and I think this is what

483
00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:44,119
Speaker 1: I'm what we're talking about here. Some people would say,

484
00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:45,760
Speaker 1: as heartless, what do you mean you wouldn't make the

485
00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:50,440
Speaker 1: safety net available for the immediate first gen family at

486
00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:52,480
Speaker 1: the same You know, I but I think that would

487
00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:55,000
Speaker 1: be a debate, and I think that's a fair political

488
00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:58,040
Speaker 1: debate to have. Is I don't think when should somebody

489
00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:01,480
Speaker 1: be eligible for the social safety net in the United States?

490
00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:03,760
Speaker 1: You know, you certainly need to become the citizen, right,

491
00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:06,200
Speaker 1: I think that that's a fair that's a fair bar.

492
00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:08,160
Speaker 1: You have to do the work to be a citizen.

493
00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:10,240
Speaker 1: You have to proact. Now, I'll tell you this. I

494
00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:12,640
Speaker 1: remember this great George W. Bush quote when he used

495
00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:14,800
Speaker 1: to talk about people coming over there. He goes, anybody

496
00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:18,359
Speaker 1: that's going to go over is going to fight the

497
00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:23,439
Speaker 1: environmental elements to get across the Rio Grande River. I

498
00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:25,440
Speaker 1: want them in America. Yeah, because they're going to be

499
00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:26,040
Speaker 1: great workers.

500
00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:28,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's totally hart. Well, look, do you remember when

501
00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:33,920
Speaker 2: Eric Adams all these migrants showed up in New York

502
00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:37,760
Speaker 2: City and Eric Adams made the decision that New York

503
00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:41,040
Speaker 2: City would house and feed everyone. Even though I am

504
00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:44,480
Speaker 2: wildly promegration and our first generation American, I thought that

505
00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:47,480
Speaker 2: was crazy for two reasons. One, so they didn't have

506
00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:49,520
Speaker 2: the money to do that. It came to the expense

507
00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:53,200
Speaker 2: of sanitation and police and schools and everything else. But two,

508
00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:58,760
Speaker 2: my family, your family, you know, millions of families have

509
00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:00,960
Speaker 2: come here, and what there are asking for is not

510
00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:04,040
Speaker 2: free housing or free food. What they're asking for is

511
00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:07,719
Speaker 2: the opportunity to work and to make a living. And

512
00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:09,840
Speaker 2: I don't think you needed to provide that because I

513
00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:12,200
Speaker 2: think people would have gone to where the jobs were.

514
00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:14,160
Speaker 2: Some might be in New York City, a lot might

515
00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:16,880
Speaker 2: be at meat packing plants in Iowa or something like that.

516
00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:20,720
Speaker 2: That's fine, right, But I don't think you even necessarily

517
00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:23,359
Speaker 2: need to at the beginning, because the truth is, most

518
00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:26,760
Speaker 2: immigrants just want to work, and the economy has a

519
00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:29,199
Speaker 2: lot of holes of jobs that are needed to be

520
00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:31,679
Speaker 2: filled that most Americans don't want to do. And so

521
00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:34,280
Speaker 2: I think the problem kind of solves itself if you

522
00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:35,439
Speaker 2: just let it happen.

523
00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:38,480
Speaker 1: No, I mean, it's by the way, it's been true

524
00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:43,280
Speaker 1: if you fought, you know before, if you look at

525
00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:47,520
Speaker 1: the immigration patterns at the border pre say twenty fifteen, okay,

526
00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:51,200
Speaker 1: and we've had some different surges for different reasons, I

527
00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:54,240
Speaker 1: would argue since then, but it usually went if we

528
00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:57,320
Speaker 1: had a lot of ope, but if our economy was humming,

529
00:28:57,600 --> 00:28:59,880
Speaker 1: there were more people at the border. If our economy

530
00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:02,880
Speaker 1: and humming, there were fewer people at the border. I mean,

531
00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:05,360
Speaker 1: you know, if you thought you could find work in

532
00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:07,560
Speaker 1: the United States, you came. If you didn't think you

533
00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:09,960
Speaker 1: could find work, you weren't going to risk your life to.

534
00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:13,240
Speaker 2: Come, right, right, Yeah, I think that that's I think

535
00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:16,160
Speaker 2: that that's right, and I think I mean, it seems

536
00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:20,360
Speaker 2: like it's a puzzle, right, which is, if you accept

537
00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:25,080
Speaker 2: that most people want others to do well right now,

538
00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:27,720
Speaker 2: some of us have easier some mentality where literally we

539
00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:30,280
Speaker 2: believe that if you win, that means that I lose,

540
00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:33,160
Speaker 2: and I think the president has that mentality quite frankly.

541
00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:38,640
Speaker 2: But overall, what we're really talking about is enough resources,

542
00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:42,640
Speaker 2: enough of a social statety, and enough opportunity and balancing

543
00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:45,400
Speaker 2: it so that it's fair so that people aren't starving.

544
00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:47,400
Speaker 2: And yet we are still innovating and creating.

545
00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:50,760
Speaker 1: So let me go back to sort of the premise

546
00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:53,440
Speaker 1: that I that I really want you to deal with,

547
00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:58,240
Speaker 1: which is, is the business community going to see the

548
00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:01,600
Speaker 1: Trump way of doing things and not want to risk

549
00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:05,000
Speaker 1: of going back And basically, look, you brought up crypto.

550
00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:09,880
Speaker 1: Whatever you think of crypto, the industry decided, hey man,

551
00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:12,600
Speaker 1: we're tired of waiting to convince the left on this.

552
00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:19,240
Speaker 1: We're just going to buy supporters, right. You know, Look,

553
00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:21,280
Speaker 1: they're not the first industry to decide to do that,

554
00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:24,560
Speaker 1: but it was kind of it's kind of gross just

555
00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:27,600
Speaker 1: looking at it from my perspective, You're like, I don't

556
00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:31,160
Speaker 1: we're not making We didn't create that. That Genius Act

557
00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:33,400
Speaker 1: didn't pass because we thought it was a good idea.

558
00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:39,160
Speaker 1: It passed because they bought enough politicians. I could argue, okay,

559
00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:41,440
Speaker 1: and we can we can have a we can we can.

560
00:30:42,280 --> 00:30:48,520
Speaker 1: You know, I am pro blockchain, less convinced on the

561
00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:53,240
Speaker 1: value of of of of the of the coins themselves,

562
00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:56,880
Speaker 1: but I accept the pre tokenization I get right like,

563
00:30:56,960 --> 00:30:59,640
Speaker 1: I'm I find myself. I'm in I'm in the middle

564
00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:04,240
Speaker 1: on this. I worry that the value scam on one hand,

565
00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:07,320
Speaker 1: to get rich quick scheme part of it, versus the

566
00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:10,360
Speaker 1: blockchain and all of that, which is a different type

567
00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:14,880
Speaker 1: of technology. But if I look at if I'm an

568
00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:17,400
Speaker 1: upstart industry in any sort, and I look at what

569
00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:22,040
Speaker 1: crypto pulled off, why do I want to risk the

570
00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:24,200
Speaker 1: other party coming in, who is just at the end

571
00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:25,920
Speaker 1: of the day going to be more bureaucratic.

572
00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:29,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, but flipping around depends on the industry right.

573
00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:33,680
Speaker 2: So if you are the solar and wind energy industry,

574
00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:36,560
Speaker 2: you feel exactly the opposite. Right. You felt like under

575
00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:40,280
Speaker 2: the Democrats you had the kind of regulatory structure, the

576
00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:42,760
Speaker 2: kind of tax credits, the grants, everything else that you

577
00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:46,200
Speaker 2: wanted and needed, and Trump came away and came in

578
00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:46,960
Speaker 2: and threw the big viewery.

579
00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:49,719
Speaker 1: I hear you. But should any industry be basically at

580
00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:51,560
Speaker 1: the whims of which party wins?

581
00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:55,440
Speaker 2: I mean, to a certain extent, that is the point

582
00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:59,560
Speaker 2: of democracy, right. I think the bigger question really becomes

583
00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:03,959
Speaker 2: who's making the decisions? And to me, the real problem

584
00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:07,320
Speaker 2: is a structure one in that if you accept that

585
00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:11,280
Speaker 2: in a world of gerrymandering, only the primary matters ninety

586
00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:13,600
Speaker 2: plus percent of the time, and Stat's proved that out.

587
00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:16,120
Speaker 2: And if you look at primary turnout, which is typically

588
00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:19,880
Speaker 2: about ten to fifteen percent, and those voters are typically

589
00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:22,440
Speaker 2: the extremes, either the far right or the far left,

590
00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:24,880
Speaker 2: or different special interests that can move money and votes,

591
00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:27,800
Speaker 2: whether it's fair Shake doing Crypto or the teachers unions

592
00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:30,640
Speaker 2: or whoever it might be. And if you accept that

593
00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:33,920
Speaker 2: politicians will always do whatever it takes to get re elected,

594
00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:37,240
Speaker 2: then by definition they're governing for that ten percent on

595
00:32:37,360 --> 00:32:40,400
Speaker 2: each side to the exclusion of everyone else. And I

596
00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:43,680
Speaker 2: actually think, you know, if you sat most people down,

597
00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:46,240
Speaker 2: you could get eighty percent of people to agree on

598
00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:49,320
Speaker 2: a framework to solve almost every single problem we have.

599
00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:53,320
Speaker 2: But those people don't vote in primary, so they're disenfranchised.

600
00:32:53,320 --> 00:32:56,360
Speaker 2: So one thing that I've been trying to do with

601
00:32:56,680 --> 00:32:59,320
Speaker 2: you know, I didn't I can to grow up a

602
00:32:59,320 --> 00:33:01,760
Speaker 2: lot of money. We're in government. I didn't make much money.

603
00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:04,160
Speaker 2: Then I went into tack and I did pretty well,

604
00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:06,840
Speaker 2: and so I've been given it away is to try

605
00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:10,000
Speaker 2: to make mobile voting happen, because to me, you're only

606
00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:12,760
Speaker 2: going to get primary turnout from ten to say thirty

607
00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:15,760
Speaker 2: or forty by meeting the people where they are. Will

608
00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:18,000
Speaker 2: people take off from work and line up to vote

609
00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:20,920
Speaker 2: for president, yes, But will they do that for city council,

610
00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:24,560
Speaker 2: state rep, state Senate. No, they don't. And as a result,

611
00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:26,720
Speaker 2: and that, by the way, even congressional primaries have a

612
00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:28,920
Speaker 2: ten percent primary, you know, have ten percent turnout rate.

613
00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:32,640
Speaker 2: So and yet close to one hundred percent of us

614
00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:35,480
Speaker 2: have phones. We live our lives on our phones, our banking,

615
00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:38,200
Speaker 2: our healthcare, our love, lives, all this other stuff, and

616
00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:40,800
Speaker 2: if we were able to allow people to vote securely

617
00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:43,720
Speaker 2: on their phones, we could get turnout from ten to

618
00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:46,360
Speaker 2: say thirty, and then all of a sudden, I'm not

619
00:33:46,400 --> 00:33:49,200
Speaker 2: sure that any one industry is at much risk of

620
00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:52,880
Speaker 2: the whims of a party because it's not being decided

621
00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:55,680
Speaker 2: just by the extremes that either hate Crypto or hate

622
00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:57,160
Speaker 2: gran energy or whatever it is.

623
00:33:57,600 --> 00:34:00,480
Speaker 1: Well, I just had somebody on as a guest who's

624
00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:03,239
Speaker 1: been advocating getting rid of partisan primaries, and I kind

625
00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:07,560
Speaker 1: of think that it's pretty clear it is. I put

626
00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:10,720
Speaker 1: it this way, I don't see how a taxpayer funded

627
00:34:10,760 --> 00:34:15,760
Speaker 1: primary is constitutional. The idea that I think it's actually

628
00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:16,600
Speaker 1: a poll tax.

629
00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:17,080
Speaker 2: Right.

630
00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:19,280
Speaker 1: If I tell you the only way you could participate

631
00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:22,520
Speaker 1: in this primary is you join a private club and

632
00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:26,120
Speaker 1: you could participate in this taxpayer funded election. That's that

633
00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:29,680
Speaker 1: seems you know, give where the where are my goddamn

634
00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:30,279
Speaker 1: lawyers here?

635
00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:32,640
Speaker 2: Come on, I'm an independent living in New York City

636
00:34:32,640 --> 00:34:33,960
Speaker 2: and my vote does not count.

637
00:34:34,200 --> 00:34:37,040
Speaker 1: Well, and that's just that doesn't make It's like, what

638
00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:40,000
Speaker 1: are we doing, especially when you look at this youngest

639
00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:44,040
Speaker 1: generation and they're registering as independent or no party at

640
00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:46,080
Speaker 1: a greater rate than either of the two major parties.

641
00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:51,040
Speaker 1: So I do think this might actually fix itself, meaning

642
00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:56,160
Speaker 1: a majority of people plurality would prefer a non party

643
00:34:56,239 --> 00:34:58,399
Speaker 1: you know, sort of, Hey, I want to I want

644
00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:02,320
Speaker 1: to decide, right, we're we're actually all libertarian, you know,

645
00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:06,080
Speaker 1: the whole idea of America's libertarian. You know, I would,

646
00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:09,080
Speaker 1: I would, I would argue. So I think we're getting there.

647
00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:15,600
Speaker 1: But on mobile voting, you know, when you look at

648
00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:19,399
Speaker 1: mobile technology through the prism of our banking system, yep,

649
00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:25,200
Speaker 1: it's really secure right now. The times that it's not, Like,

650
00:35:25,239 --> 00:35:27,200
Speaker 1: there's nothing I hate more than when a credit card

651
00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:29,920
Speaker 1: company tells me, hey, you've got to change your number.

652
00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:32,600
Speaker 1: We're doing this for your purposes. No, you're not. You're

653
00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:34,879
Speaker 1: doing it for your purpose. Like I just hate being

654
00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:38,239
Speaker 1: lied to about that. Like it's like no, no, no, no, And

655
00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:41,000
Speaker 1: I even tell them, stop reading your script. You're not

656
00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:43,080
Speaker 1: doing it for my benefit. You're doing it for your benefit.

657
00:35:43,840 --> 00:35:48,920
Speaker 1: But let's you know, let's figure this out. You have

658
00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:51,480
Speaker 1: a You're going to have a hard time convincing the

659
00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:57,480
Speaker 1: public that because cyber criminal activity exists when it comes

660
00:35:57,480 --> 00:36:01,800
Speaker 1: to scamming people out of crypto or scamming people based

661
00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:05,520
Speaker 1: on you know, a text message they get and they

662
00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:08,520
Speaker 1: click the wrong link, that they're going to have a

663
00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:13,760
Speaker 1: hard time believing that the voting is going to be secure.

664
00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:14,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I.

665
00:36:14,760 --> 00:36:16,640
Speaker 1: Just think psyched the psyche.

666
00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:20,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's right. The polling doesn't quite show that.

667
00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:25,200
Speaker 2: What's interesting is so before twenty twenty, we polled nationally

668
00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:29,279
Speaker 2: and about seventy five percent of Republicans, Democrats, Independence all

669
00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:32,240
Speaker 2: said if mobile voting is secure, of course we should

670
00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:36,120
Speaker 2: have it. Right after twenty twenty, we pulled again, stayed

671
00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:39,120
Speaker 2: in the mid seventies with Independence, and Democrats fell to

672
00:36:39,160 --> 00:36:42,040
Speaker 2: the forties with Republicans because of all the doubt cast

673
00:36:42,120 --> 00:36:45,760
Speaker 2: on the twenty twenty election. So, to me, the solution

674
00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:47,600
Speaker 2: to that, and this is what we're working on right

675
00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:49,960
Speaker 2: now by to start running legislation in seven states to

676
00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:54,640
Speaker 2: do this is to allow start with local elections and

677
00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:58,240
Speaker 2: let cities choose to opt in to offer mobile voting

678
00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:02,799
Speaker 2: as one form of voting for council, school board, may

679
00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:05,800
Speaker 2: or things like that. So Anchorage is the first city

680
00:37:05,840 --> 00:37:07,360
Speaker 2: that's going to do this. They're going to do it

681
00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:11,160
Speaker 2: in their April municipal elections and then if we pass

682
00:37:11,239 --> 00:37:14,280
Speaker 2: our bills in these different states that would allow cities

683
00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:16,680
Speaker 2: to choose to opt in if they want to, to

684
00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:19,640
Speaker 2: offer it for local elections only, and then let's see

685
00:37:19,640 --> 00:37:22,160
Speaker 2: how it goes. If people use it and it works

686
00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:24,840
Speaker 2: and they develop trust, we can move up the ladder

687
00:37:24,840 --> 00:37:27,759
Speaker 2: to state and then maybe one day federal. If not,

688
00:37:27,880 --> 00:37:30,439
Speaker 2: then then we don't. But I think we have enough.

689
00:37:30,880 --> 00:37:33,400
Speaker 2: You can start locally enough to sort of experiment a

690
00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:33,839
Speaker 2: little bit.

691
00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:36,920
Speaker 1: What's your So give me some of the tech, the

692
00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:38,719
Speaker 1: security things is it?

693
00:37:38,760 --> 00:37:40,520
Speaker 2: Here's how it would work. Location?

694
00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:41,360
Speaker 1: What would it be?

695
00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:44,480
Speaker 2: So you would go on the app store. You live

696
00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:46,640
Speaker 2: in Arlington. So let's just say for purposes, you would

697
00:37:46,640 --> 00:37:49,600
Speaker 2: download the Arlington Board of Elections app and the first

698
00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:51,759
Speaker 2: thing would say, okay to someone named Chuck Todd, really

699
00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:54,680
Speaker 2: live in Arlington? Who's registered voter? Last four digits of

700
00:37:54,680 --> 00:37:57,319
Speaker 2: your social your address? Okay, now we know that there's

701
00:37:57,360 --> 00:38:00,200
Speaker 2: a voter named Chuck Todd in Arlington, but are you

702
00:38:00,239 --> 00:38:03,880
Speaker 2: really that person? So first thing is multi factor authentications.

703
00:38:03,920 --> 00:38:06,080
Speaker 2: That's like when you figet your password, they send your code,

704
00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:09,200
Speaker 2: you put it in the app. Then biometric screening so

705
00:38:09,239 --> 00:38:11,520
Speaker 2: they matt scan your face, match it up against your

706
00:38:11,560 --> 00:38:14,480
Speaker 2: driver's license or whatever idea you have. Now we know

707
00:38:14,560 --> 00:38:17,760
Speaker 2: this is really Chuck Todd. Ballot comes up on your screen.

708
00:38:18,320 --> 00:38:21,360
Speaker 2: Ballot is as simple and straightforward as can be. Whenever

709
00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:24,400
Speaker 2: you're done and you're ready to submit, three things happen.

710
00:38:24,640 --> 00:38:27,880
Speaker 2: Your ballots encrypted, your ballots anonymized, and you get a

711
00:38:27,920 --> 00:38:30,879
Speaker 2: tracking code, goes back to the Board of Elections. They

712
00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:33,959
Speaker 2: air gap it, which just mean they take it offline

713
00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:36,400
Speaker 2: once your ballot is on a flash drive and not

714
00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:39,960
Speaker 2: connected to the Internet. Then they decrypt it. A paper

715
00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:42,439
Speaker 2: copy of your ballot gets printed out. That gets mixed

716
00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:44,960
Speaker 2: in with all the other ballots. You can see where

717
00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:47,319
Speaker 2: your ballot stands because the tracking code will show you

718
00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:51,000
Speaker 2: it was received, tabulated, printed, and so on. And then

719
00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:54,200
Speaker 2: the underlying code itself is open source. So we've spent

720
00:38:54,280 --> 00:38:57,320
Speaker 2: the last five years building this thing out of my foundation.

721
00:38:58,080 --> 00:39:00,600
Speaker 2: We posted it to GitHub a couple of weeks ago,

722
00:39:00,719 --> 00:39:04,200
Speaker 2: so it is now public code. Anybody can use it,

723
00:39:04,239 --> 00:39:06,840
Speaker 2: anybody can download it. I don't even known it anymore.

724
00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:10,680
Speaker 2: It's just purely in the public domain, and any government

725
00:39:10,719 --> 00:39:12,239
Speaker 2: that wants to try to do it now has the

726
00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:14,879
Speaker 2: ability to do so. And I've already and I've spent

727
00:39:15,040 --> 00:39:17,319
Speaker 2: twenty million dollars my own money so far, you know,

728
00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:20,120
Speaker 2: working on all of this, I've already paid for it.

729
00:39:20,200 --> 00:39:23,040
Speaker 2: So I feel like, given that we live in a

730
00:39:23,080 --> 00:39:28,120
Speaker 2: world where polarization seems to be the contributing factor to

731
00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:32,440
Speaker 2: so many of our problems, and polarization is because not

732
00:39:32,800 --> 00:39:36,040
Speaker 2: that people are polarized, but because the only the extremes

733
00:39:36,120 --> 00:39:39,719
Speaker 2: vote in primaries, and that's where everything is decided. If

734
00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:42,120
Speaker 2: you could do something that could make it so much

735
00:39:42,160 --> 00:39:45,239
Speaker 2: easier to vote, especially in primaries, and you get do

736
00:39:45,239 --> 00:39:47,800
Speaker 2: you remember when Amazon wanted to put their second headquarters

737
00:39:47,800 --> 00:39:49,719
Speaker 2: in Queen So part of it went to where you are,

738
00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:52,000
Speaker 2: to Arlington, right, and then the other half was supposed

739
00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:54,720
Speaker 2: to go to Long Island City, So hundreds of cities

740
00:39:54,719 --> 00:39:58,160
Speaker 2: competed for this. New York want a little unexpectedly, everyone's

741
00:39:58,239 --> 00:40:00,640
Speaker 2: very excited. The poland shows people are really into it.

742
00:40:01,120 --> 00:40:04,760
Speaker 2: Then AOC comes out against it and look for her politics. Fine,

743
00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:08,840
Speaker 2: she's anti jobs, business, capitalism, whatever. Fine. So there's a

744
00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:11,680
Speaker 2: guy named Mike Gennaris who is a state senator in

745
00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:14,560
Speaker 2: Long Island City, Queens. And Mike is just a guy.

746
00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:17,960
Speaker 2: He's not good, He's not bad. He's not conservatives at liberal.

747
00:40:18,120 --> 00:40:20,680
Speaker 2: He is just a political hack that wants to stay

748
00:40:20,719 --> 00:40:24,879
Speaker 2: in office, nothing else, and all things being equal, of course,

749
00:40:24,920 --> 00:40:27,520
Speaker 2: it's exciting when your district is picked by Amazon to

750
00:40:27,560 --> 00:40:30,479
Speaker 2: be this thing. But now he says to himself, oh shit,

751
00:40:31,360 --> 00:40:33,560
Speaker 2: if I support this, I could get a primary from

752
00:40:33,560 --> 00:40:36,400
Speaker 2: the left. Turn out I'll be around eight nine percent

753
00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:40,480
Speaker 2: based on the data, and the voters in that primary

754
00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:42,600
Speaker 2: will be the most left wing voters of my district.

755
00:40:42,680 --> 00:40:46,080
Speaker 2: And if AOC supports the opponent, I could lose. And

756
00:40:46,120 --> 00:40:50,400
Speaker 2: he had a choice forty thousand, forty thousand new jobs

757
00:40:50,400 --> 00:40:53,279
Speaker 2: for New Yorkers that are good jobs with benefits, or

758
00:40:53,400 --> 00:40:56,879
Speaker 2: one job his own, and he picked himself, and by

759
00:40:56,880 --> 00:40:59,920
Speaker 2: the way, that's what politicians do. But if he did

760
00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:02,719
Speaker 2: the same analysis and turn out as primary was gonna

761
00:41:02,719 --> 00:41:06,040
Speaker 2: be thirty seven instead of nine, not because he cared

762
00:41:06,040 --> 00:41:09,520
Speaker 2: anymore about the voters, the district, the job, whatever, Nothing

763
00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:12,799
Speaker 2: only changed, just the math. He would have done the

764
00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:16,160
Speaker 2: deal simply because he would have needed to get re elected.

765
00:41:16,480 --> 00:41:20,280
Speaker 2: So what if they were not partisan primaries or open primaries,

766
00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:22,719
Speaker 2: that would definitely help. But you know, I still think

767
00:41:22,760 --> 00:41:24,520
Speaker 2: if you look at places with the open primaries, and

768
00:41:24,560 --> 00:41:29,439
Speaker 2: I'm a big supporter of open primaries for local elections.

769
00:41:29,600 --> 00:41:33,240
Speaker 2: You still just don't get people going to submit plays.

770
00:41:33,239 --> 00:41:35,040
Speaker 2: With mail in voting, it's a little easier, but in

771
00:41:35,080 --> 00:41:38,080
Speaker 2: New York where you have to go, people just don't

772
00:41:38,120 --> 00:41:40,719
Speaker 2: show up. But you know what, those same people all

773
00:41:40,760 --> 00:41:43,560
Speaker 2: have phones, So when they're sitting on the subway or

774
00:41:43,560 --> 00:41:45,960
Speaker 2: they're waiting for their coffee or wherever else, if all

775
00:41:46,000 --> 00:41:48,120
Speaker 2: they have to do is press a few buttons, then

776
00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:50,680
Speaker 2: you can go from nine to thirty seven. I don't

777
00:41:50,680 --> 00:41:52,520
Speaker 2: think you can do that when people have to go

778
00:41:52,560 --> 00:41:53,279
Speaker 2: show up some money.

779
00:41:56,200 --> 00:41:58,839
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Speaker 1: That's get sold dot Com promo code toodcast for thirty

803
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Speaker 1: percent off. Let me introduce a counterintuitive point about voting. Yeah,

804
00:43:23,840 --> 00:43:25,880
Speaker 1: and I'm not I'm saying this. I'm not saying I

805
00:43:25,880 --> 00:43:28,439
Speaker 1: agree with it. So anybody listening that wants to try

806
00:43:28,440 --> 00:43:31,359
Speaker 1: to like, you know, aggregate me and sort of say, oh,

807
00:43:31,400 --> 00:43:35,880
Speaker 1: there he goes he doesn't want to if you choose not.

808
00:43:36,040 --> 00:43:40,080
Speaker 1: You know, it's sort of like I'm not for compulsory

809
00:43:40,120 --> 00:43:43,040
Speaker 1: voting like I think you should. I think you should

810
00:43:43,440 --> 00:43:47,200
Speaker 1: feel comfortable made. You know. In fact, I think it's

811
00:43:47,239 --> 00:43:52,439
Speaker 1: been fascinating that that voter turnout goes down. The more

812
00:43:53,160 --> 00:43:57,799
Speaker 1: apathy goes up, the more content and stable our governments are. Right,

813
00:43:57,880 --> 00:44:00,920
Speaker 1: apathy goes down a bit more unstable when our leadership

814
00:44:00,960 --> 00:44:03,920
Speaker 1: is a little bit more unstable. Maybe that's a good

815
00:44:03,920 --> 00:44:09,120
Speaker 1: thing that that people pay more attention, but it is

816
00:44:09,800 --> 00:44:12,239
Speaker 1: is more uninformed people voting a good thing.

817
00:44:14,120 --> 00:44:18,200
Speaker 2: You know what, if more uninformed people is more, it's

818
00:44:18,200 --> 00:44:22,600
Speaker 2: still a better reflection of the mainstream and therefore democracy

819
00:44:22,640 --> 00:44:25,600
Speaker 2: than fewer. And you know, I just when I was

820
00:44:25,600 --> 00:44:28,640
Speaker 2: giving a talk on mobilevoting somewhere someone said raise their hands, said, well,

821
00:44:29,040 --> 00:44:31,320
Speaker 2: under your as system, we're going to have a TikTok president.

822
00:44:31,760 --> 00:44:34,320
Speaker 2: We have a TikTok president, and a New York have

823
00:44:34,360 --> 00:44:35,520
Speaker 2: a TikTok mayor mayor.

824
00:44:35,600 --> 00:44:38,800
Speaker 1: Right now, we're already living in the biggest in the

825
00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:40,879
Speaker 1: biggest markets. We're already living in that world so we're

826
00:44:40,920 --> 00:44:41,960
Speaker 1: we're already there.

827
00:44:42,000 --> 00:44:46,120
Speaker 2: So to me, the thing that I learned I worked

828
00:44:46,120 --> 00:44:48,560
Speaker 2: in city government. I worked in you know, I was

829
00:44:48,600 --> 00:44:51,680
Speaker 2: in DC, I was sumer's communications director, I was deputy

830
00:44:51,719 --> 00:44:54,320
Speaker 2: governor of Illinois. I saw it from really every angle,

831
00:44:54,920 --> 00:44:56,760
Speaker 2: And to me, the only thing that you can count

832
00:44:56,800 --> 00:44:59,279
Speaker 2: on is that politicians will do whatever it takes to

833
00:44:59,320 --> 00:45:02,279
Speaker 2: get re elected. And so even if it's an uninformed

834
00:45:02,320 --> 00:45:05,560
Speaker 2: thirty seven percent, a politician trying to sell for an

835
00:45:05,640 --> 00:45:08,919
Speaker 2: uninformed thirty seven percent is still going to land much

836
00:45:08,960 --> 00:45:11,759
Speaker 2: more in the mainstream than a politician trying to solve

837
00:45:11,840 --> 00:45:12,640
Speaker 2: for nine percent.

838
00:45:13,120 --> 00:45:16,399
Speaker 1: Yeah, do you think you're gonna have an easier time

839
00:45:16,440 --> 00:45:20,800
Speaker 1: selling more rural states on mobile voting than urban.

840
00:45:20,600 --> 00:45:23,520
Speaker 2: St It's one of the reasons why Alaska's are Alaska

841
00:45:23,600 --> 00:45:27,719
Speaker 2: is a perfect Yeah, a perfect example, if not for

842
00:45:27,840 --> 00:45:32,120
Speaker 2: twenty twenty. Yes, the challenge I have right now is

843
00:45:32,160 --> 00:45:35,600
Speaker 2: that red states don't want to do anything Trump doesn't like,

844
00:45:35,680 --> 00:45:37,719
Speaker 2: and he hasn't said anything about mobile voting. But if

845
00:45:37,800 --> 00:45:41,080
Speaker 2: you are a paper only in person thing, then clearly

846
00:45:41,120 --> 00:45:44,239
Speaker 2: you're not gonna like mobile voting. And so therefore in

847
00:45:44,320 --> 00:45:47,719
Speaker 2: blue states, you not only don't have the concern about Trump,

848
00:45:47,800 --> 00:45:51,000
Speaker 2: but you actually have the incentive of sticking it to Trump. Right,

849
00:45:51,320 --> 00:45:54,920
Speaker 2: So in theory, what you said should have been the

850
00:45:55,000 --> 00:45:59,480
Speaker 2: rollout plan, Trump scrambled that. So now the rollout plan

851
00:46:00,280 --> 00:46:02,440
Speaker 2: is much more partisan, which I'd say again, I'm not

852
00:46:02,480 --> 00:46:04,920
Speaker 2: even an Emerald party anymore, right, So it's not like

853
00:46:05,600 --> 00:46:07,759
Speaker 2: I want one party as opposed to another or one

854
00:46:07,760 --> 00:46:09,439
Speaker 2: type of state. But I'm going to have mobile voting.

855
00:46:09,480 --> 00:46:12,480
Speaker 2: I want ever want to have it. I think realistically,

856
00:46:13,160 --> 00:46:14,960
Speaker 2: there's a world that I live in for what I'm

857
00:46:14,960 --> 00:46:17,160
Speaker 2: doing through twenty eight, and then there's a new world

858
00:46:17,160 --> 00:46:18,280
Speaker 2: that starts in twenty nine.

859
00:46:19,800 --> 00:46:21,880
Speaker 1: That's interesting that you say it that way when you

860
00:46:21,920 --> 00:46:25,160
Speaker 1: say there's just a new world, that's you're just are

861
00:46:25,200 --> 00:46:28,439
Speaker 1: you sort of plotting and living? I mean I want

862
00:46:28,480 --> 00:46:30,439
Speaker 1: more people to be thinking this way, which is, Look,

863
00:46:30,480 --> 00:46:33,160
Speaker 1: the Trump era is over. It just hasn't ended yet.

864
00:46:33,840 --> 00:46:37,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean He's gonna go away and norms will

865
00:46:37,760 --> 00:46:39,319
Speaker 2: be restored.

866
00:46:39,440 --> 00:46:41,719
Speaker 1: So well, see that's the question. That's what I'm not

867
00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:44,600
Speaker 1: I'm now starting to become a skeptical so we never

868
00:46:44,680 --> 00:46:45,960
Speaker 1: go backwards, Bradley.

869
00:46:46,280 --> 00:46:49,960
Speaker 2: So I've been asking people who know Dvance specifically this question, right,

870
00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:53,399
Speaker 2: because let's say it's any Democrat, we're probably going back

871
00:46:53,440 --> 00:46:56,360
Speaker 2: to a more normalized rule of laws system, right. So

872
00:46:56,480 --> 00:47:01,000
Speaker 2: now on the Republican side, even someone like Rubio probably

873
00:47:01,040 --> 00:47:03,560
Speaker 2: goes back to that. So to me, Vance is the

874
00:47:03,600 --> 00:47:08,160
Speaker 2: biggest of the major contenders, the biggest variable. He might

875
00:47:08,200 --> 00:47:12,000
Speaker 2: not want to, but remember when Jordan retired and the

876
00:47:12,080 --> 00:47:15,319
Speaker 2: NBA kept turning to manufacture these errors to Jordan and

877
00:47:15,360 --> 00:47:18,239
Speaker 2: it never worked. Right, you had great basketball players, but

878
00:47:18,320 --> 00:47:22,399
Speaker 2: until Lebron naturally came along, you just didn't have it. Right,

879
00:47:23,719 --> 00:47:27,240
Speaker 2: Vance and others will try to imitate Trump at every turn,

880
00:47:27,400 --> 00:47:30,360
Speaker 2: and it's not gonna work because Trump is an end

881
00:47:30,400 --> 00:47:34,040
Speaker 2: of one and for better or worse, he's just unique, right,

882
00:47:34,280 --> 00:47:37,520
Speaker 2: and if you try to imitate him, that will probably

883
00:47:37,600 --> 00:47:43,439
Speaker 2: look really inauthentic and actually fail. And so Vance would

884
00:47:43,440 --> 00:47:47,000
Speaker 2: be my biggest concern about continuation of the current approach

885
00:47:47,040 --> 00:47:50,439
Speaker 2: to rule of law. But I kind of think that

886
00:47:51,400 --> 00:47:54,000
Speaker 2: people are gonna want change, and I think that he

887
00:47:54,120 --> 00:47:57,080
Speaker 2: is gonna refer he has to run on continuity to Trump.

888
00:47:57,600 --> 00:48:03,560
Speaker 1: And look, Vance is discovering this same trap that being

889
00:48:03,640 --> 00:48:06,680
Speaker 1: vice president for an unpopular president is like that Kamala

890
00:48:06,719 --> 00:48:09,600
Speaker 1: Harris discovered you're never going to be judged on your

891
00:48:09,600 --> 00:48:10,760
Speaker 1: own merits, right.

892
00:48:10,840 --> 00:48:12,400
Speaker 2: Right, Well, do you think he learned?

893
00:48:12,400 --> 00:48:12,440
Speaker 1: So?

894
00:48:12,600 --> 00:48:17,960
Speaker 2: Harris clearly regrets not distancing herself from Biden in any way.

895
00:48:18,400 --> 00:48:21,520
Speaker 2: Do you think Vance has learned from that? And if so,

896
00:48:22,040 --> 00:48:25,560
Speaker 2: when you're the city vice president and a candidate, how

897
00:48:25,600 --> 00:48:26,600
Speaker 2: do you distance yourself?

898
00:48:26,719 --> 00:48:29,080
Speaker 1: You can't. I mean the point is just because you

899
00:48:29,160 --> 00:48:33,440
Speaker 1: should doesn't mean you can, right, yeah, right, you know, look,

900
00:48:35,840 --> 00:48:38,959
Speaker 1: Hubert Humphrey couldn't do it, and he waited too long.

901
00:48:43,360 --> 00:48:46,680
Speaker 1: Al Gore to this day did the best version of

902
00:48:46,719 --> 00:48:47,640
Speaker 1: it that was possible.

903
00:48:48,160 --> 00:48:48,359
Speaker 2: Right.

904
00:48:48,719 --> 00:48:50,560
Speaker 1: He found he was trying to figure out a way

905
00:48:50,600 --> 00:48:54,560
Speaker 1: to show distance on the things that mattered the most,

906
00:48:55,280 --> 00:48:58,840
Speaker 1: the concerns that people had, which was the kind of

907
00:48:58,600 --> 00:49:03,120
Speaker 1: the personal ickiness of Clinton, right, and Joe Lieberman was

908
00:49:03,200 --> 00:49:03,680
Speaker 1: the tonic.

909
00:49:04,600 --> 00:49:05,600
Speaker 2: And so.

910
00:49:08,840 --> 00:49:15,400
Speaker 1: You know what, you know, had Kamala Harris picked Elon

911
00:49:15,520 --> 00:49:17,439
Speaker 1: Musks are running made, I don't know. I'm like trying

912
00:49:17,480 --> 00:49:19,160
Speaker 1: to think, like who could have been the.

913
00:49:20,320 --> 00:49:22,719
Speaker 2: I'm not sure anything. I don't know if anything.

914
00:49:22,440 --> 00:49:26,640
Speaker 1: Could even al Gore couldn't outrun it. Right, he got closer.

915
00:49:26,800 --> 00:49:29,520
Speaker 1: I will always go to my grave believing that race

916
00:49:29,560 --> 00:49:33,560
Speaker 1: got competitive because he figured out a way to walk

917
00:49:33,600 --> 00:49:35,600
Speaker 1: the line of being, Hey, I'm going to be the

918
00:49:35,640 --> 00:49:39,799
Speaker 1: stuff you liked about Clinton, and I'm not going to

919
00:49:39,840 --> 00:49:42,879
Speaker 1: allow the stuff you didn't like to happen either, right,

920
00:49:43,080 --> 00:49:44,720
Speaker 1: which was but it was hard.

921
00:49:45,040 --> 00:49:48,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, and bother one of the biggest what asks because

922
00:49:48,080 --> 00:49:50,880
Speaker 2: if you think about it, let's say Florida. You know,

923
00:49:51,040 --> 00:49:54,040
Speaker 2: a few ballots got fully punched through instead of hanging

924
00:49:54,080 --> 00:49:56,440
Speaker 2: had tats or whatever. Right, and the outcome is different.

925
00:49:57,200 --> 00:50:00,600
Speaker 2: It seems to be there's two very radically differ friend

926
00:50:00,800 --> 00:50:02,840
Speaker 2: outcomes that we said of what we had. One is,

927
00:50:03,040 --> 00:50:05,080
Speaker 2: let's just see nine to eleven still happens, because it

928
00:50:05,200 --> 00:50:05,960
Speaker 2: probably would have.

929
00:50:06,080 --> 00:50:08,319
Speaker 1: Right, I've gone through this. What if I'm curious where

930
00:50:08,320 --> 00:50:10,239
Speaker 1: you're going to go. I have an idea where this goes.

931
00:50:10,400 --> 00:50:13,320
Speaker 2: See, you still get Afghanistan. That doesn't change, No.

932
00:50:13,440 --> 00:50:17,960
Speaker 1: But I don't think you realize Rack, it's not just that, Bradley.

933
00:50:18,239 --> 00:50:19,200
Speaker 2: Yeah.

934
00:50:19,239 --> 00:50:22,799
Speaker 1: If at nine to eleven happens under Al Gore, that's

935
00:50:22,840 --> 00:50:28,040
Speaker 1: the ninth year of a democratic presidency. So while George W.

936
00:50:28,160 --> 00:50:32,319
Speaker 1: Bush was new and could claim the intelligence was new,

937
00:50:33,360 --> 00:50:36,600
Speaker 1: then all of a sudden, if Gore's president, then the

938
00:50:36,719 --> 00:50:39,440
Speaker 1: whole well, you knew this guy was a problem because

939
00:50:39,480 --> 00:50:42,680
Speaker 1: your administration tried to kill him once and missed. You

940
00:50:42,719 --> 00:50:45,480
Speaker 1: were on top of bin Ladden, and you still missed this.

941
00:50:45,960 --> 00:50:50,759
Speaker 1: I think the politicizing of the intelligence failure under a

942
00:50:50,800 --> 00:50:55,040
Speaker 1: democratic administration, which is a continuation of eight years of

943
00:50:55,040 --> 00:51:00,319
Speaker 1: a democratic administration, becomes we are far more polarized. The

944
00:51:00,360 --> 00:51:03,359
Speaker 1: world we live in today is the world that would

945
00:51:03,400 --> 00:51:07,040
Speaker 1: have happened to us September twelfth, ninth, two thousand and one.

946
00:51:07,040 --> 00:51:11,400
Speaker 1: Meaning I think we would have gone immediately because it

947
00:51:11,400 --> 00:51:14,759
Speaker 1: would have been this was the because he would have

948
00:51:14,760 --> 00:51:17,440
Speaker 1: had the same CIA chief probably maybe he had the

949
00:51:17,440 --> 00:51:19,120
Speaker 1: same Secretary of State maybe, but you know what I mean.

950
00:51:19,160 --> 00:51:23,600
Speaker 1: There would have been more continuation than difference, and it

951
00:51:23,640 --> 00:51:26,120
Speaker 1: wouldn't have been a new president. It would have been

952
00:51:26,200 --> 00:51:29,880
Speaker 1: right like. So that to me is the is the

953
00:51:29,920 --> 00:51:32,319
Speaker 1: dog that didn't mark right, which is well, we were

954
00:51:32,360 --> 00:51:34,400
Speaker 1: we could have nine to eleven, could have gotten politicized.

955
00:51:34,400 --> 00:51:36,759
Speaker 1: It didn't, right, and it was a unique set of

956
00:51:36,760 --> 00:51:38,200
Speaker 1: circumstances for why it didn't.

957
00:51:38,360 --> 00:51:41,120
Speaker 2: But could you have gotten away with the WMD stuff?

958
00:51:42,360 --> 00:51:45,120
Speaker 1: Well, I don't think Iraq ever happens right, right right?

959
00:51:45,120 --> 00:51:48,000
Speaker 1: I mean, in that sense it doesn't happen, and we

960
00:51:48,080 --> 00:51:51,799
Speaker 1: probably still do Afghanistan. But what I'm saying is I

961
00:51:51,840 --> 00:51:56,759
Speaker 1: think we have a far more politicized world because this

962
00:51:56,800 --> 00:51:59,160
Speaker 1: wouldn't have been the failure of a new administration. It

963
00:51:59,160 --> 00:52:02,120
Speaker 1: would have been the failure of an administration that, in theory,

964
00:52:02,160 --> 00:52:04,120
Speaker 1: had been in power for nine years.

965
00:52:03,920 --> 00:52:06,319
Speaker 2: Right, right? I think that's probably right. Can I throw

966
00:52:06,400 --> 00:52:08,080
Speaker 2: one crazy idea at you, because.

967
00:52:08,200 --> 00:52:10,520
Speaker 1: Lad, that's what we do here at the Chuck Podcast.

968
00:52:10,719 --> 00:52:13,280
Speaker 2: So, okay, So if you look at sort of modern

969
00:52:13,560 --> 00:52:17,360
Speaker 2: political history for the president, let's just say since Reagan,

970
00:52:17,480 --> 00:52:21,440
Speaker 2: So there's been seven presidents, including Reagan's nineteen eighty five

971
00:52:21,520 --> 00:52:24,319
Speaker 2: of them, I would argue, were rock stars who were

972
00:52:24,360 --> 00:52:28,840
Speaker 2: definitely not the most qualified person to win. So Reagan, Clinton,

973
00:52:29,600 --> 00:52:33,120
Speaker 2: w to some extent, Obama Trump. The two that were

974
00:52:33,280 --> 00:52:38,479
Speaker 2: ultra qualified, Biden and HW both only lasted one term.

975
00:52:38,640 --> 00:52:41,279
Speaker 1: Right, so I call them nineteenth century presidents. They'd have

976
00:52:41,320 --> 00:52:45,000
Speaker 1: been better in the non media era, right the at

977
00:52:45,080 --> 00:52:46,040
Speaker 1: least for president.

978
00:52:46,640 --> 00:52:51,000
Speaker 2: Americans want rock stars, and my argument is the DNC

979
00:52:51,239 --> 00:52:55,080
Speaker 2: or the RNC are the least qualified entities to pick

980
00:52:55,640 --> 00:52:59,000
Speaker 2: rock stars. Do you remember that show? I think you

981
00:52:59,239 --> 00:53:02,360
Speaker 2: were probably around this age Battle of the network stars.

982
00:53:02,640 --> 00:53:05,040
Speaker 2: It's like when I was a kid, right, So, yeah,

983
00:53:05,120 --> 00:53:08,480
Speaker 2: what if you did that in say in twenty twenty seven,

984
00:53:08,560 --> 00:53:10,799
Speaker 2: where you said, okay, instead of a tug of war

985
00:53:10,880 --> 00:53:14,480
Speaker 2: in the mud, go to the waffle house of midnight,

986
00:53:14,640 --> 00:53:16,799
Speaker 2: talk to the truckers, talk to the cops, talk to

987
00:53:16,800 --> 00:53:19,399
Speaker 2: the college kids, show them all of America and see

988
00:53:19,440 --> 00:53:21,359
Speaker 2: who comes and what they talk to you about. Call

989
00:53:21,440 --> 00:53:24,000
Speaker 2: inning of a Cardinals game on the radio, whatever it is.

990
00:53:24,520 --> 00:53:27,560
Speaker 2: And put candidates in real world situations that are not

991
00:53:27,719 --> 00:53:32,239
Speaker 2: totally scripted and not totally packed with party faithful and

992
00:53:32,360 --> 00:53:35,440
Speaker 2: just see how they do. Because some will resonate, some

993
00:53:35,520 --> 00:53:39,000
Speaker 2: will not. And ultimately you got to pick the candidate

994
00:53:39,120 --> 00:53:43,960
Speaker 2: that has that intangible quality. And you're never going to

995
00:53:44,040 --> 00:53:47,920
Speaker 2: get that through the debates and the normal primary systems.

996
00:53:47,960 --> 00:53:49,600
Speaker 2: You almost need an alternate method.

997
00:53:50,040 --> 00:53:52,200
Speaker 1: Well, you know we have. You know, it's funny, what

998
00:53:52,239 --> 00:53:54,680
Speaker 1: if I told you that we had already had that system,

999
00:53:55,320 --> 00:53:58,719
Speaker 1: but we didn't like it, and it's called the Iowa CAUCUSUS.

1000
00:53:59,120 --> 00:54:02,120
Speaker 1: This single grind greatest aspect of the Iowa caucuses is

1001
00:54:02,160 --> 00:54:06,080
Speaker 1: what you just described, the fact that candidates have to

1002
00:54:06,120 --> 00:54:11,160
Speaker 1: go into small venues, They have to it's the only

1003
00:54:11,280 --> 00:54:16,719
Speaker 1: time in the presidential process where you see more personal interactions, right.

1004
00:54:16,960 --> 00:54:19,680
Speaker 1: And you know, I've always thought that what people don't

1005
00:54:19,760 --> 00:54:22,759
Speaker 1: understand that actually the two parties that stumbled on a

1006
00:54:22,800 --> 00:54:25,920
Speaker 1: really smart way to do the presidential primary system. We

1007
00:54:26,040 --> 00:54:29,360
Speaker 1: start in a super rural state that's very friendly, in

1008
00:54:29,440 --> 00:54:32,160
Speaker 1: the state of Iowa, and you're being tested, can you

1009
00:54:32,360 --> 00:54:36,319
Speaker 1: organize ninety nine counties? Like that's essentially what you're being

1010
00:54:36,320 --> 00:54:38,960
Speaker 1: told to do. You've got to figure out how to organize.

1011
00:54:39,120 --> 00:54:42,360
Speaker 1: You can't just win DesMoines. You've actually got to show

1012
00:54:42,480 --> 00:54:45,760
Speaker 1: strength in ninety nine counties. Then with the second test,

1013
00:54:46,440 --> 00:54:48,440
Speaker 1: we're going to send you to a state that is

1014
00:54:48,840 --> 00:54:53,040
Speaker 1: cranky independence and in fact they get to decide which

1015
00:54:53,160 --> 00:54:56,560
Speaker 1: party to vote in and they vacillate Like two thousand

1016
00:54:56,719 --> 00:54:59,680
Speaker 1: was fantastic. It was really a fight between McCain and

1017
00:54:59,760 --> 00:55:02,799
Speaker 1: braw to see who could convince more independence to pick

1018
00:55:03,080 --> 00:55:05,759
Speaker 1: the D ballot or the R ballot. Well, McCain won that,

1019
00:55:06,040 --> 00:55:09,640
Speaker 1: and therefore Gore won. Had Bradley won the debate with McCain,

1020
00:55:10,040 --> 00:55:14,000
Speaker 1: Bradley wins the New Hampshire primary, and then the messages said, hey,

1021
00:55:14,320 --> 00:55:18,799
Speaker 1: this guy is better at winning independence and it's a

1022
00:55:18,880 --> 00:55:22,400
Speaker 1: test of that. Like I think the parties and we

1023
00:55:22,480 --> 00:55:25,360
Speaker 1: didn't fully appreciate that the system that we had stumbled

1024
00:55:25,400 --> 00:55:29,719
Speaker 1: into place you test or actually existed. And what you

1025
00:55:29,880 --> 00:55:32,560
Speaker 1: have is you had a whole bunch of idiots at

1026
00:55:32,560 --> 00:55:36,560
Speaker 1: the DNC who said, well, Iowa was too white, and

1027
00:55:36,920 --> 00:55:38,759
Speaker 1: it is, and they had it, and they applied a

1028
00:55:38,840 --> 00:55:43,000
Speaker 1: DEI test to the state of Iowa mistakenly realized, not

1029
00:55:43,160 --> 00:55:46,759
Speaker 1: realizing that by preventing their candidates from learning how to

1030
00:55:46,800 --> 00:55:49,840
Speaker 1: speak to rural America in a friendly state like Iowa,

1031
00:55:50,160 --> 00:55:52,359
Speaker 1: that they were going to fail in appealing to rural

1032
00:55:52,360 --> 00:55:57,400
Speaker 1: America all over the country. So I absolutely agree with

1033
00:55:57,440 --> 00:55:59,319
Speaker 1: what you're saying. And I'm like, we already had this

1034
00:55:59,480 --> 00:56:04,280
Speaker 1: system because it tested Barack Obama, it tested Bill Clinton,

1035
00:56:04,920 --> 00:56:07,560
Speaker 1: and in fact, it was in the small states and

1036
00:56:07,640 --> 00:56:11,240
Speaker 1: their interactions in the small states that made the country

1037
00:56:11,360 --> 00:56:15,040
Speaker 1: comfortable with what they what. We weren't sure whether these

1038
00:56:15,040 --> 00:56:17,640
Speaker 1: were attributes that were going to work or not. So

1039
00:56:18,360 --> 00:56:20,719
Speaker 1: we had the system, and we're now actually trying to

1040
00:56:20,760 --> 00:56:23,880
Speaker 1: throw that system away, which I sort of am frustrated them.

1041
00:56:23,800 --> 00:56:27,640
Speaker 2: Well because by throwing it, throwing it away and sort

1042
00:56:27,640 --> 00:56:32,120
Speaker 2: of nationalizing it empowers the people inside the Beltway at

1043
00:56:32,239 --> 00:56:35,080
Speaker 2: the expense of everyone else. But the problem is those

1044
00:56:35,120 --> 00:56:37,839
Speaker 2: people like other people who went to Yale and write

1045
00:56:37,840 --> 00:56:41,279
Speaker 2: in bullet points, and that is not a rock star, right, right,

1046
00:56:43,800 --> 00:56:44,960
Speaker 2: But let me go back, let me.

1047
00:56:44,880 --> 00:56:48,279
Speaker 1: Throw some up at echew, which is which is? And

1048
00:56:48,360 --> 00:56:53,480
Speaker 1: I've i've I've been working with a company that's basically

1049
00:56:53,560 --> 00:56:56,200
Speaker 1: popped up, that didn't exist for a while, but now

1050
00:56:56,239 --> 00:57:02,080
Speaker 1: exists as an entity to help corporations communicate how to

1051
00:57:02,160 --> 00:57:06,600
Speaker 1: deal with tricky political situations, either with their own employees

1052
00:57:06,800 --> 00:57:09,920
Speaker 1: or with the outside world. And it's sort of it's

1053
00:57:09,960 --> 00:57:12,120
Speaker 1: a company now that it's thriving, and there's a lot

1054
00:57:12,120 --> 00:57:15,960
Speaker 1: of Fortune five hundred companies that want this research, this information, etc.

1055
00:57:17,040 --> 00:57:21,360
Speaker 1: And what I've come to discover is that basically we're

1056
00:57:21,400 --> 00:57:25,680
Speaker 1: now looking for the same attributes in our CEOs as

1057
00:57:25,720 --> 00:57:28,120
Speaker 1: we expect in our presidents as you just defined, right,

1058
00:57:28,160 --> 00:57:32,960
Speaker 1: which is ultimately we're looking for the best communicator. Right,

1059
00:57:33,040 --> 00:57:36,480
Speaker 1: we elect the best communicator. We don't elect the best person.

1060
00:57:36,520 --> 00:57:41,040
Speaker 1: We're electing the best communicator. The companies with good communicators

1061
00:57:42,680 --> 00:57:44,920
Speaker 1: probably are doing better on Wall Street than the companies

1062
00:57:44,920 --> 00:57:51,880
Speaker 1: with bad communicators. And I actually think now we're communicating

1063
00:57:51,960 --> 00:57:55,680
Speaker 1: is so much more important now to success in both

1064
00:57:55,720 --> 00:58:00,520
Speaker 1: the business world, the political world, the entertainment world, frankly

1065
00:58:00,560 --> 00:58:04,280
Speaker 1: even the sports world. That it is now a skill

1066
00:58:04,320 --> 00:58:06,640
Speaker 1: set that is as important as learning how to type.

1067
00:58:07,400 --> 00:58:09,960
Speaker 1: It is a skill set that it's important as understanding

1068
00:58:10,040 --> 00:58:12,160
Speaker 1: how to write. In fact, you need to know how

1069
00:58:12,160 --> 00:58:15,520
Speaker 1: to do that then you do right cursive. Right. I

1070
00:58:15,600 --> 00:58:17,640
Speaker 1: just think it's a skill set that it's necessary now

1071
00:58:17,640 --> 00:58:18,400
Speaker 1: and all walks away.

1072
00:58:18,920 --> 00:58:23,000
Speaker 2: In my world investing in tech startups, narrative is frequently

1073
00:58:23,080 --> 00:58:28,720
Speaker 2: more important than economic fundamentals, right, you know, even and

1074
00:58:29,080 --> 00:58:32,600
Speaker 2: P and L and everything else oftentimes takes a backseat

1075
00:58:32,720 --> 00:58:37,600
Speaker 2: to who has the narrative, the rhetoric, the sort of

1076
00:58:37,800 --> 00:58:42,760
Speaker 2: you know, flash that really gets investors excited, and that's

1077
00:58:42,760 --> 00:58:46,640
Speaker 2: what drives evaluation. Look, think about AI right now. You

1078
00:58:46,720 --> 00:58:48,959
Speaker 2: take two companies and you call one of them AI

1079
00:58:49,120 --> 00:58:51,000
Speaker 2: and one of them not you think to be the

1080
00:58:51,040 --> 00:58:55,080
Speaker 2: same company. The AI one has doubled evaluation immediately, right.

1081
00:58:55,680 --> 00:58:58,360
Speaker 2: I mean, I would even argue that a lot of

1082
00:58:58,400 --> 00:59:03,440
Speaker 2: the spending the open aiyes and the Navidias are doing

1083
00:59:03,440 --> 00:59:08,000
Speaker 2: on data centers and everything else is really short term

1084
00:59:08,120 --> 00:59:12,360
Speaker 2: narrative and profit seeking disguise as long term plan. So

1085
00:59:12,880 --> 00:59:15,760
Speaker 2: it looks like you're saying, oh, I'm thinking twenty thirty

1086
00:59:15,840 --> 00:59:18,800
Speaker 2: years out, and the market loves that and they reward

1087
00:59:18,840 --> 00:59:21,480
Speaker 2: it with higher share prices or higher valuations if you're

1088
00:59:21,480 --> 00:59:26,040
Speaker 2: still a private company, and in reality, we have no

1089
00:59:26,200 --> 00:59:29,560
Speaker 2: idea what we're actually going to need to power AI

1090
00:59:29,680 --> 00:59:32,080
Speaker 2: in twenty or thirty years, because the answer might be

1091
00:59:32,120 --> 00:59:34,800
Speaker 2: that we don't need nearly this much compute, right, maybe

1092
00:59:34,800 --> 00:59:37,760
Speaker 2: the influence model works. I'm at a company that is

1093
00:59:38,000 --> 00:59:42,360
Speaker 2: literally using rat brain stem cells to try to power compute.

1094
00:59:42,600 --> 00:59:45,720
Speaker 2: Whether it works, who knows, right, But like, there's lots

1095
00:59:45,760 --> 00:59:48,479
Speaker 2: of different ways to go about it. And I think

1096
00:59:48,520 --> 00:59:53,080
Speaker 2: that if your Jensen want you know, you say, if

1097
00:59:53,120 --> 00:59:55,120
Speaker 2: I announced I'm going to spend a trillion dollars on

1098
00:59:55,200 --> 01:00:00,000
Speaker 2: data centers, my valuation goes way up immediately, and the truth,

1099
01:00:00,280 --> 01:00:02,880
Speaker 2: by the time that the bill comes due, I'm probably

1100
01:00:02,960 --> 01:00:06,280
Speaker 2: long gone. My shares became worth more and more money

1101
01:00:06,320 --> 01:00:09,000
Speaker 2: in the short term, and even if all that debt

1102
01:00:09,080 --> 01:00:11,640
Speaker 2: goes bad and people's four oh one k's get wiped

1103
01:00:11,680 --> 01:00:16,000
Speaker 2: out as a result, not really your problem. So yeah, narrative,

1104
01:00:16,200 --> 01:00:18,840
Speaker 2: you know, for better and for worse, you know, it

1105
01:00:18,840 --> 01:00:21,160
Speaker 2: has overwhelming influence over everything else.

1106
01:00:21,600 --> 01:00:23,800
Speaker 1: No, and it's like, it's not just politics, it's it's

1107
01:00:23,840 --> 01:00:25,920
Speaker 1: it's business. Let me get you out of here on

1108
01:00:25,960 --> 01:00:31,240
Speaker 1: this is is it better to be a public company

1109
01:00:31,320 --> 01:00:33,400
Speaker 1: or a private company in twenty twenty five and in

1110
01:00:33,400 --> 01:00:34,200
Speaker 1: twenty twenty.

1111
01:00:34,000 --> 01:00:40,080
Speaker 2: Six, that's a great, great question. I believe that tech

1112
01:00:40,120 --> 01:00:44,000
Speaker 2: startups stay private for too long. And the reason they

1113
01:00:44,080 --> 01:00:47,520
Speaker 2: stay private oftentimes is it's easier you don't have all

1114
01:00:47,640 --> 01:00:50,280
Speaker 2: the scrutiny of the market and analysts and investors and

1115
01:00:50,320 --> 01:00:56,560
Speaker 2: all of that. And b oftentimes they're really overvalued and

1116
01:00:56,600 --> 01:00:59,200
Speaker 2: they're afraid to go to the public markets because they're

1117
01:00:59,200 --> 01:01:02,280
Speaker 2: going to face a deep cut in the share price.

1118
01:01:02,680 --> 01:01:04,440
Speaker 2: They might have a good IPO day, but then you

1119
01:01:04,520 --> 01:01:07,240
Speaker 2: look six months later and it's down seventy percent, and

1120
01:01:07,280 --> 01:01:10,440
Speaker 2: that's because fundamentally the company was never worth what people

1121
01:01:10,520 --> 01:01:12,640
Speaker 2: like me said it was in the first place. And

1122
01:01:12,720 --> 01:01:14,480
Speaker 2: we tell me if this is a little too technical,

1123
01:01:14,520 --> 01:01:17,960
Speaker 2: but in the venture world, we have gotten into a

1124
01:01:18,000 --> 01:01:21,680
Speaker 2: game where the real way for people to make money

1125
01:01:21,800 --> 01:01:24,480
Speaker 2: is have more AUM assets under management, because you get

1126
01:01:24,480 --> 01:01:27,880
Speaker 2: a two percent fee. So if you can have billions

1127
01:01:27,920 --> 01:01:30,640
Speaker 2: of dollars of AUM it doesn't really matter what your

1128
01:01:30,640 --> 01:01:33,560
Speaker 2: investment performance is because the management fee is worth tens

1129
01:01:33,560 --> 01:01:36,280
Speaker 2: of millions of dollars and if you're the you know,

1130
01:01:36,360 --> 01:01:39,560
Speaker 2: the main GP, you can pocket that. And so as

1131
01:01:39,600 --> 01:01:42,120
Speaker 2: a result, if you are raising much more money than

1132
01:01:42,120 --> 01:01:44,440
Speaker 2: you need to get that two percent, you have to

1133
01:01:44,480 --> 01:01:48,040
Speaker 2: deploy it at much higher evaluations to make the math work.

1134
01:01:48,400 --> 01:01:50,480
Speaker 2: And everyone's in on the joke from sort of the

1135
01:01:50,560 --> 01:01:54,240
Speaker 2: earliest stage, you know, investor to Fidelity, whoever at the

1136
01:01:54,280 --> 01:01:58,600
Speaker 2: Series F for g. And then they know that it

1137
01:01:58,680 --> 01:02:01,120
Speaker 2: all works for as long as are not exposed. And

1138
01:02:01,200 --> 01:02:04,720
Speaker 2: what exposes it is often the public markets. As I

1139
01:02:04,800 --> 01:02:08,040
Speaker 2: think tech companies stay private for way too long as

1140
01:02:08,040 --> 01:02:12,400
Speaker 2: a result, and that is really harmful to the employees,

1141
01:02:12,760 --> 01:02:15,560
Speaker 2: to consumers, to a lot of other people. So I

1142
01:02:16,040 --> 01:02:18,760
Speaker 2: think that ultimately I would really like to see the

1143
01:02:18,840 --> 01:02:21,360
Speaker 2: speed to market increase.

1144
01:02:21,880 --> 01:02:25,280
Speaker 1: How would you incentivize that because right now, I mean,

1145
01:02:25,320 --> 01:02:28,280
Speaker 1: I'll be honest, is as much as look, I'm an

1146
01:02:28,320 --> 01:02:31,160
Speaker 1: advocate of the public markets. I think the public markets

1147
01:02:31,160 --> 01:02:33,680
Speaker 1: are for all the reasons you just said, right, It's

1148
01:02:33,720 --> 01:02:37,560
Speaker 1: a way to protect employee rights and all those things

1149
01:02:37,800 --> 01:02:39,720
Speaker 1: you have. You know, it's having another set of eyes

1150
01:02:40,160 --> 01:02:45,360
Speaker 1: on everything. But I think the incentive is to stay private,

1151
01:02:45,600 --> 01:02:47,840
Speaker 1: and atentive is But if you so, how do you

1152
01:02:47,840 --> 01:02:50,520
Speaker 1: incentivize the public. How do you incentivize.

1153
01:02:49,960 --> 01:02:55,120
Speaker 2: Driven by the institutional capital allocators, meaning the giant pension funds,

1154
01:02:55,120 --> 01:03:00,440
Speaker 2: the sovereign wealth funds, the endowments that give hundreds of

1155
01:03:00,440 --> 01:03:02,960
Speaker 2: millions of dollars or billions of dollars to a private

1156
01:03:02,960 --> 01:03:07,120
Speaker 2: equity fund of entra capital fund, whatever it is. Because ultimately,

1157
01:03:07,600 --> 01:03:11,040
Speaker 2: every year that the company stays private, the RR of

1158
01:03:11,360 --> 01:03:14,880
Speaker 2: the pension fund goes down. Right, So the people who

1159
01:03:15,000 --> 01:03:18,960
Speaker 2: ultimately control the money are way too lax in the

1160
01:03:19,000 --> 01:03:22,040
Speaker 2: requirements and pression that they put on the funds that

1161
01:03:22,080 --> 01:03:22,840
Speaker 2: they invest in.

1162
01:03:22,920 --> 01:03:25,920
Speaker 1: And so you think that people running the pension funds

1163
01:03:25,960 --> 01:03:28,400
Speaker 1: could put more pressure in these private companies. And you

1164
01:03:28,440 --> 01:03:30,800
Speaker 1: want our if they want our crash, you need to

1165
01:03:30,800 --> 01:03:31,320
Speaker 1: go public.

1166
01:03:31,480 --> 01:03:34,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, they said to Sequoia, if you don't get your

1167
01:03:34,160 --> 01:03:38,200
Speaker 2: average company from your investment to an IPO down by

1168
01:03:38,240 --> 01:03:41,360
Speaker 2: twenty five percent, we're not doing your next fund. At

1169
01:03:41,360 --> 01:03:43,720
Speaker 2: the next board meeting, the person with Zaquoia on the

1170
01:03:43,760 --> 01:03:46,160
Speaker 2: board is betting in the table, saying we got to

1171
01:03:46,200 --> 01:03:49,400
Speaker 2: get to the market faster. So that's where the power

1172
01:03:49,440 --> 01:03:52,440
Speaker 2: lies in this situation. And I really think that in

1173
01:03:52,440 --> 01:03:55,920
Speaker 2: some ways because the public pension funds especially or look

1174
01:03:55,960 --> 01:03:58,200
Speaker 2: when I was deputy governor of Illinois, like I saw this.

1175
01:03:58,280 --> 01:04:01,240
Speaker 2: We would appoint people, but there are pointees right to

1176
01:04:01,320 --> 01:04:04,400
Speaker 2: the pension funds. They weren't business people and as a result,

1177
01:04:04,720 --> 01:04:09,959
Speaker 2: they're often poorly run. And you know, they are more

1178
01:04:10,040 --> 01:04:12,240
Speaker 2: eager to be able to say I'm in sequoia, I'm

1179
01:04:12,240 --> 01:04:15,120
Speaker 2: in in grease and whatever it is KKR. Then it

1180
01:04:15,200 --> 01:04:19,280
Speaker 2: is demaining that the leaders of those funds be accountable

1181
01:04:19,440 --> 01:04:23,600
Speaker 2: and provide really good returns. And so you know, that's

1182
01:04:23,640 --> 01:04:29,240
Speaker 2: where it has to come from.

1183
01:04:29,320 --> 01:04:33,360
Speaker 1: Anybody, uh, anybody getting grabbing your attention for twenty twenty

1184
01:04:33,360 --> 01:04:34,960
Speaker 1: eight that you're excited about yet.

1185
01:04:34,920 --> 01:04:37,920
Speaker 2: Or no, because in part, if you go back to

1186
01:04:37,920 --> 01:04:40,680
Speaker 2: the conversation we had about twelve minutes ago, I would

1187
01:04:40,720 --> 01:04:43,439
Speaker 2: say that I don't know who the rock star is yet,

1188
01:04:44,000 --> 01:04:47,360
Speaker 2: and I know that if I just find the look

1189
01:04:47,760 --> 01:04:50,120
Speaker 2: you know, like you people come through New York and

1190
01:04:50,160 --> 01:04:51,840
Speaker 2: they're rising money or whatever in the car.

1191
01:04:52,000 --> 01:04:55,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, you meet these people, right you kick, they're smart,

1192
01:04:55,200 --> 01:04:59,360
Speaker 1: anyone's for president smart, they're impressive. Well, they're they're also

1193
01:04:59,400 --> 01:05:02,920
Speaker 1: super narsiss. I always say this, like you run for president,

1194
01:05:03,440 --> 01:05:05,960
Speaker 1: You're like, boy, you know you're You're a bit different

1195
01:05:05,960 --> 01:05:08,240
Speaker 1: than most of us who don't think we should be right,

1196
01:05:08,480 --> 01:05:08,960
Speaker 1: but you're.

1197
01:05:08,840 --> 01:05:13,360
Speaker 2: Good at this. And so I don't trust my own

1198
01:05:13,400 --> 01:05:16,120
Speaker 2: reaction in those meetings. And I've spent a lifetime around

1199
01:05:16,120 --> 01:05:18,960
Speaker 2: politicians because I understand what they're really good at, and

1200
01:05:18,960 --> 01:05:22,680
Speaker 2: that's what they're really good at, and so I don't

1201
01:05:22,800 --> 01:05:24,960
Speaker 2: maybe it's you know, returned to the version of Iowa,

1202
01:05:25,160 --> 01:05:27,480
Speaker 2: but I would like to see something that shows me

1203
01:05:27,680 --> 01:05:30,960
Speaker 2: because look, I'm a rich guy in Manhattan, right. I

1204
01:05:31,000 --> 01:05:35,280
Speaker 2: am not an any way indicative of America, right you.

1205
01:05:36,320 --> 01:05:39,520
Speaker 2: I live in downtown, I went to Ivy League schools.

1206
01:05:39,520 --> 01:05:42,360
Speaker 2: I'm everything that the that the right hates right many ways,

1207
01:05:42,800 --> 01:05:46,440
Speaker 2: and I'm not a good barometer for who's gonna win

1208
01:05:46,520 --> 01:05:51,280
Speaker 2: Iowa or New Hampshire. And so for me, what I'm

1209
01:05:51,280 --> 01:05:53,160
Speaker 2: trying to do is know what I don't know. And

1210
01:05:53,240 --> 01:05:56,400
Speaker 2: rather than saying, oh, Josh Shapiro is the guy, Yeah

1211
01:05:56,760 --> 01:05:58,720
Speaker 2: he might. I don't even know Josh Piera, but he

1212
01:05:58,840 --> 01:06:00,800
Speaker 2: might resonate really well with in a one on one

1213
01:06:01,000 --> 01:06:03,800
Speaker 2: launch or whatever it is. But so what right, So

1214
01:06:05,520 --> 01:06:08,480
Speaker 2: I would like to try to figure out a way

1215
01:06:09,280 --> 01:06:12,280
Speaker 2: that who is the candidate that can do what you

1216
01:06:12,400 --> 01:06:15,200
Speaker 2: talked about, which is they figured out how to navigate

1217
01:06:15,200 --> 01:06:17,720
Speaker 2: the independence in New Hampshire, they figured out how to

1218
01:06:17,800 --> 01:06:21,840
Speaker 2: organize ninety nine counties in Iowa, and then through that

1219
01:06:22,200 --> 01:06:24,880
Speaker 2: you knew this person has the intangible skill.

1220
01:06:25,640 --> 01:06:27,520
Speaker 1: Well it goes back. You know, it's funny you brought

1221
01:06:27,560 --> 01:06:29,480
Speaker 1: up the Battle of the Network Stars. By the way,

1222
01:06:29,480 --> 01:06:32,000
Speaker 1: if you if you ever want to entertain yourself, go

1223
01:06:32,040 --> 01:06:34,440
Speaker 1: look at go go watch highlight reels of that on YouTube,

1224
01:06:34,480 --> 01:06:37,000
Speaker 1: because they haven't. Okay, oh my god, it's it's fantastic.

1225
01:06:37,320 --> 01:06:41,080
Speaker 1: It's unbelievable, right you just see the You're like, how

1226
01:06:41,160 --> 01:06:44,400
Speaker 1: much cocaine was being done behind the scenes, right, there

1227
01:06:44,480 --> 01:06:48,080
Speaker 1: is no doubt, Like you wouldn't have it if there

1228
01:06:48,160 --> 01:06:50,400
Speaker 1: was it, like you know, the amount of like crazy

1229
01:06:50,520 --> 01:06:53,880
Speaker 1: s seventies coke that was taking place. But anyway, that

1230
01:06:53,920 --> 01:06:57,880
Speaker 1: ought to be actually a pretty good Netflix limited series

1231
01:06:57,960 --> 01:07:00,720
Speaker 1: like behind the scenes and the battles and would starts.

1232
01:07:00,880 --> 01:07:02,240
Speaker 1: I'm sure it'd be you know.

1233
01:07:03,000 --> 01:07:06,040
Speaker 2: Just hilarious investing and we're going to make the show.

1234
01:07:06,240 --> 01:07:08,560
Speaker 1: Let's make that show. It would be you know, tell

1235
01:07:08,640 --> 01:07:11,200
Speaker 1: us the real story of Farah Faucet and Lee Majors,

1236
01:07:11,280 --> 01:07:16,760
Speaker 1: you know, like those those sorts of things. But there

1237
01:07:16,800 --> 01:07:20,240
Speaker 1: is a series of tests that we want these candidates

1238
01:07:20,280 --> 01:07:22,840
Speaker 1: to go through. And while I don't think we want

1239
01:07:22,880 --> 01:07:26,200
Speaker 1: it to look like Survivor or a game show, in

1240
01:07:26,280 --> 01:07:31,080
Speaker 1: some ways I do. I do like that there are

1241
01:07:31,160 --> 01:07:34,760
Speaker 1: all these weird obstacles in the primary calendar, or that

1242
01:07:34,800 --> 01:07:39,360
Speaker 1: there used to be, because while it doesn't test you

1243
01:07:39,400 --> 01:07:42,200
Speaker 1: on whether how you're going to handle Putin, if you

1244
01:07:42,360 --> 01:07:47,240
Speaker 1: can't handle you know, the person that you got to

1245
01:07:47,280 --> 01:07:50,560
Speaker 1: deal with in Columbia, South Carolina, that that in order

1246
01:07:50,600 --> 01:07:53,960
Speaker 1: to navigate you know, precinct, why well, then how the

1247
01:07:54,000 --> 01:07:56,520
Speaker 1: hell do we expect you to be able to handle

1248
01:07:56,640 --> 01:07:58,200
Speaker 1: a tough moment with Putin? Right?

1249
01:07:58,280 --> 01:08:02,600
Speaker 2: So, the modern version that actually is the candidates who

1250
01:08:02,600 --> 01:08:05,720
Speaker 2: are truly adapt to new forms of technology, whether it

1251
01:08:05,840 --> 01:08:10,680
Speaker 2: was Kennedy and television or Obama and text, or Trump

1252
01:08:10,680 --> 01:08:14,520
Speaker 2: and Twitter or Mandani in short form video, they do

1253
01:08:14,720 --> 01:08:17,559
Speaker 2: really well because that becomes the way to do it.

1254
01:08:18,840 --> 01:08:21,880
Speaker 1: No, it's a you're not wrong, it's like how do

1255
01:08:21,920 --> 01:08:25,360
Speaker 1: we how do we how do we sort of celebrate

1256
01:08:25,439 --> 01:08:27,800
Speaker 1: that part of the prime because you know, there's plenty

1257
01:08:27,800 --> 01:08:31,000
Speaker 1: of people who will criticize our conversation. You're trying to gamify.

1258
01:08:31,479 --> 01:08:33,880
Speaker 1: It is sort of, it's not gamify. It's simply finding

1259
01:08:33,920 --> 01:08:39,080
Speaker 1: the person who's got the best attributes to handle how

1260
01:08:39,120 --> 01:08:40,599
Speaker 1: the job is done today.

1261
01:08:40,880 --> 01:08:46,360
Speaker 2: Plus a binary contest is a game by definition, right,

1262
01:08:46,560 --> 01:08:48,880
Speaker 2: So like we're already in that construct.

1263
01:08:49,600 --> 01:08:54,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, mobile voting, when will we see the first votes.

1264
01:08:54,400 --> 01:08:59,320
Speaker 2: April in Anchorage? And then my hope would be a

1265
01:08:59,360 --> 01:09:01,120
Speaker 2: whole bunch of these in different states.

1266
01:09:01,360 --> 01:09:04,640
Speaker 1: What does success look like to you? Fifty turnout? Like

1267
01:09:04,720 --> 01:09:05,960
Speaker 1: huge increases, You're not.

1268
01:09:05,960 --> 01:09:08,880
Speaker 2: Going to get that in year one. So Estonia is

1269
01:09:08,880 --> 01:09:10,840
Speaker 2: the one country in the world that has had internet

1270
01:09:10,920 --> 01:09:13,040
Speaker 2: voting for twenty years. I went over there this summer

1271
01:09:13,080 --> 01:09:14,280
Speaker 2: to kind of meet with a lot of people and

1272
01:09:14,360 --> 01:09:17,040
Speaker 2: learn more about it. So in year one it was

1273
01:09:17,120 --> 01:09:21,760
Speaker 2: one point three percent of voters voted online. Today it's well,

1274
01:09:22,120 --> 01:09:26,960
Speaker 2: it's a significant majority, right, And they went from having

1275
01:09:27,760 --> 01:09:31,000
Speaker 2: higher national turnout and low local turnout to sort of

1276
01:09:31,080 --> 01:09:34,639
Speaker 2: normalize get across the board, whereas now even Musp elections

1277
01:09:34,640 --> 01:09:37,960
Speaker 2: are getting fifty instead of five because people just got

1278
01:09:38,040 --> 01:09:40,320
Speaker 2: used to it and it just became so easy that

1279
01:09:40,360 --> 01:09:42,200
Speaker 2: there's no reason not to do it. So that's what

1280
01:09:42,240 --> 01:09:42,840
Speaker 2: I'm going for.

1281
01:09:43,320 --> 01:09:45,920
Speaker 1: Hey, in nineteen ninety five, the state of Oregon ran

1282
01:09:45,920 --> 01:09:50,320
Speaker 1: this interesting experiment for mail in voting. It was the

1283
01:09:50,360 --> 01:09:55,639
Speaker 1: special election to replace Bob Packway the entire West coast.

1284
01:09:55,720 --> 01:09:59,040
Speaker 1: Now it majority votes by mail. Yeah right, you know,

1285
01:09:59,120 --> 01:10:00,439
Speaker 1: and that was just thirty years ago.

1286
01:10:00,920 --> 01:10:02,639
Speaker 2: So that's that's what I'm hoping to do here.

1287
01:10:02,960 --> 01:10:05,599
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I'll be watching rather than this great conversation

1288
01:10:05,600 --> 01:10:06,200
Speaker 1: and this was.

1289
01:10:06,160 --> 01:10:08,519
Speaker 2: Super fun and yeah, absolutely loved it to meet and

1290
01:10:08,520 --> 01:10:10,840
Speaker 2: sort we'll do it again, all right, See, thank you.

1291
01:10:14,600 --> 01:10:17,680
Speaker 1: There's a reason results matter more than promises, just like

1292
01:10:17,720 --> 01:10:20,839
Speaker 1: there's a reason Morgan and Morgan is America's largest injury

1293
01:10:20,920 --> 01:10:23,639
Speaker 1: law firm. For the last thirty five years, they've recovered

1294
01:10:23,760 --> 01:10:26,919
Speaker 1: twenty five billion dollars for more than half a million clients.

1295
01:10:27,479 --> 01:10:31,080
Speaker 1: It includes cases where insurance companies offered next to nothing,

1296
01:10:31,360 --> 01:10:34,120
Speaker 1: just hoping to get away with paying as little as possible.

1297
01:10:34,200 --> 01:10:37,240
Speaker 1: Morgan and Morgan fought back ended up winning millions. In fact,

1298
01:10:37,360 --> 01:10:40,479
Speaker 1: in Pennsylvania, one client was awarded twenty six million dollars,

1299
01:10:40,960 --> 01:10:44,000
Speaker 1: which was a staggering forty times the amount that the

1300
01:10:44,040 --> 01:10:47,280
Speaker 1: insurance company originally offered that original offer six hundred and

1301
01:10:47,360 --> 01:10:50,880
Speaker 1: fifty thousand dollars twenty six million, six hundred fifty thousand dollars.

1302
01:10:50,960 --> 01:10:53,120
Speaker 1: So with more than one thousand lawyers across the country,

1303
01:10:53,240 --> 01:10:55,879
Speaker 1: they know how to deliver for everyday people. If you're injured,

1304
01:10:56,000 --> 01:10:58,559
Speaker 1: you need a lawyer, You need somebody to get your back.

1305
01:10:58,960 --> 01:11:01,720
Speaker 1: Check out for the People dot com, Slash podcast or

1306
01:11:02,160 --> 01:11:07,320
Speaker 1: Dow Pound Law Pound five two nine law on your

1307
01:11:07,360 --> 01:11:09,960
Speaker 1: cell phone. And remember all law firms are not the same,

1308
01:11:10,000 --> 01:11:12,160
Speaker 1: so check out Morgan and Morgan. Their fee is free

1309
01:11:12,439 --> 01:11:13,080
Speaker 1: unless they win