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Speaker 1: Fellow conspiracy realist, have you ever suspected there was some

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Speaker 1: sort of shadowy cabal? What a softball question?

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Speaker 2: Isn't that start of the whole basis of this show.

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Speaker 2: I think it is.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think we've all suspected.

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Speaker 2: It's entirely like, Yeah.

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Speaker 1: This is a fun one for us. Back in twenty nineteen,

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Speaker 1: we looked at the hectic news cycle of twenty fifteen

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Speaker 1: with the benefit of retrospect, and we noticed that there

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Speaker 1: was a particular investigation from the FBI into the Clinton

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Speaker 1: administration where they said.

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Speaker 2: Quote, there was a powerful group of very high ranking

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Speaker 2: state officials that some referred to as the seventh Floor

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Speaker 2: Group or the shadow government.

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Speaker 1: But what does that mean? Well, let's jump into the

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Speaker 1: episode and find out.

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Speaker 3: From UFOs to psychic powers and government can bises, history

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Speaker 3: is riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now

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Speaker 3: or learn this stuff they don't want.

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Speaker 1: You to know. A production of iHeart Radios How Stuff Works.

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Speaker 2: Welcome back to the show. My name is Matt Noel

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Speaker 2: is on an adventure. But wait, who are you?

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Speaker 1: That's right, they call me Ben. We are joined with

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Speaker 1: our super producer Paul, Mission Control decand most importantly, you

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Speaker 1: are you, you are here, and that makes this stuff

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Speaker 1: they don't want you to know. This is a weird one, Matt.

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Speaker 1: This is an episode that a lot of our fellow

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Speaker 1: and listeners had asked us to cover in years past.

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Speaker 2: Yes, it's it's a callback.

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Speaker 1: It's a callback, it really is, and we did. We

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Speaker 1: did an episode related to this topic way back in

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Speaker 1: what twenty sixteen, So looking back, it's strange to recall

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Speaker 1: that the twenty sixteen presidential campaign happened three years ago.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it certainly doesn't seem as though that much time

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Speaker 2: has passed, but in fact it has a three ish years. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: we're not quite there, We're not quite the novembery yet.

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Speaker 2: But still, Hey, it's crazy that much time has passed.

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Speaker 2: And you know, elections, especially presidential elections in this country,

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Speaker 2: they bring out the best and the worst of us.

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Speaker 2: I think.

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Speaker 1: I think that's incredibly optimistic, and I appreciate that I

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Speaker 1: needed to hear some good news today. You're absolutely right,

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Speaker 1: my friend. I agree with you. Way back in twenty sixteen,

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Speaker 1: when we first did some episodes on elections, we figured

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Speaker 1: that the most fact based and the fairest way for

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Speaker 1: us to sum up all the allegations and conspiratorial accusations

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Speaker 1: that we had heard of was to do one episode

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Speaker 1: for each of the political party front runners. So we

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Speaker 1: did one episode on conspiracies about the Trump campaign, and

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Speaker 1: we did one episode on conspiracies about the Hillary Clinton campaign.

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Speaker 2: Yes, and Bernie didn't even make it in there. Actually,

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Speaker 2: that's not true. Bernie made an appearance in the Clinton episode.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, along with your pal Wasserman Schultz, right.

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Speaker 2: Oh, everyone's pal Wasserman Schultz.

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Speaker 1: It was like this. Both of those episodes together were

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Speaker 1: like this Avengers Infinity War team up of horrible people

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Speaker 1: doing horrible thing.

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Speaker 2: It really was, and whether we like it or not,

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Speaker 2: we contributed to whatever it is that we are in

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Speaker 2: right now, whatever this is. We just gave a little

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Speaker 2: bit because everyone involved, like you said, was all there.

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Speaker 2: Everybody goes up to no good and there really wasn't

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Speaker 2: a great choice, it seemed, at least in my opinion.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, because we had we had a situation wherein mass

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Speaker 1: media was being leveraged so effectively. Mass media was around

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Speaker 1: in other elections, but it hadn't quite reached the fever

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Speaker 1: pitch that it reached in the twenty sixteen presidential campaign,

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Speaker 1: and like most presidential campaigns here in the States, the

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Speaker 1: one in twenty sixteen saw the rise and fall of

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Speaker 1: multitudes of politicians, as well as the sudden rise and

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Speaker 1: candidly the disappearance of various scandals. You know what I mean.

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Speaker 2: That's correct, absolutely.

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Speaker 1: So today's story starts with one of the famous controversies,

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Speaker 1: or should we say infamous controversies in that election. It's

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Speaker 1: known as the Hillary Clinton email scandal or email controversy.

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Speaker 1: The word choice there depends upon which side of the

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Speaker 1: aisle you fall on. For a lot of.

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Speaker 2: People, how much do you want to downplay this?

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Speaker 1: Right?

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Speaker 2: Right?

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Speaker 1: So for some people this was a case study in

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Speaker 1: out of control media grasping its straws, right yeah. And

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Speaker 1: those were generally people who were supporters of the Clinton campaign.

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Speaker 1: For others, generally opponents of that campaign, it was a

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Speaker 1: case study and how the powerful can sweep their political

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Speaker 1: dirt under the figurative rug.

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Speaker 2: But reality, yeah, it was somewhere in the middle.

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Speaker 1: Right right, right, And and nowadays people still use the phrase

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Speaker 1: but the emails, So first things first, what are we

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Speaker 1: talking about here?

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Speaker 2: Well, that that a phrase, but the emails it's kind

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Speaker 2: of shorthand really and it's a bit of a joke

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Speaker 2: and it's uh, I don't know, it's it's pretty crazy.

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Speaker 2: It goes back to this series of really security violations

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Speaker 2: that were undertaken. I don't know how you how you

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Speaker 2: put that that they were There were violations that the

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Speaker 2: Clinton campaign did while she was in office as Secretary

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Speaker 2: of Date and it had to do with putting emails

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Speaker 2: on a private server, or putting emails that should not

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Speaker 2: be on a private server on a private server right

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Speaker 2: in the big major scheme of things. That's what it is.

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Speaker 2: And ultimately you're talking about the classification of certain email

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Speaker 2: and information within emails that maybe shouldn't have been on

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Speaker 2: a private server.

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Speaker 1: And I know that for many of us listening today,

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Speaker 1: this is something that you may feel that you heard

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Speaker 1: ad nauseum three years ago and you're thinking, well, why

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Speaker 1: should I should listen to this? We have a plot

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Speaker 1: twist coming up for you. This is not just an

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Speaker 1: episode about emails. The plot thickens pretty quickly, but to

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Speaker 1: get there, we need to walk through the email scandal,

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Speaker 1: the email controversy. It is exactly as you described it, Matt,

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Speaker 1: a series of security violations. Think of it as you

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Speaker 1: know what. Think of one server as an old school

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Speaker 1: filing cabinet, right, and then another server right next to it,

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Speaker 1: another old school filing cabinet. And in the server to

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Speaker 1: your right, that's where all the classified stuff goes. What's

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Speaker 1: up with North Korea? What are Iran and various other

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Speaker 1: Middle Eastern powers angry or cranky about today? That goes

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Speaker 1: into this one file cabinet.

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Speaker 2: In that file cabinet has a crazy amount of locks

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Speaker 2: on it and biometric scanning in order to get into it.

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Speaker 2: It's intense stuff.

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Speaker 1: And then you have the other file cabinet on your left,

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Speaker 1: no locks. It's kind of a junk drawer. Yeah, there

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Speaker 1: are you know, there are like old recipes, maybe some

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Speaker 1: Pinterest things in there. But then one way or another,

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Speaker 1: through accident or through intentional action, the stuff that's top

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Speaker 1: secret or just secret ends up there with the recipes

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Speaker 1: and the Hey, what are you doing on Saturday? Let's

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Speaker 1: go to what's a chain restaurant?

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Speaker 2: Oh? Charlie's.

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Speaker 1: Oh, Paul's gonna kill us if we don't shout.

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Speaker 2: Out apple be sorry, sorry Paul Applebee's. Jeez, that was close.

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Speaker 2: Here's another major distinction we have to make. Yes, the

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Speaker 2: server on your right, the one that has all those

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Speaker 2: locks on it, with all the class wide information. That

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Speaker 2: one can be seen by the State Department, by a

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Speaker 2: lot of other intelligence agencies. There's there's accountability on that

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Speaker 2: one right to the government. On the private one. That one,

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Speaker 2: the one on your left, it's completely controlled by the

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Speaker 2: Clinton campaign and people who are contracted to work with

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Speaker 2: the Clinton campaign on that email server. That's a huge

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Speaker 2: thing that we have to just remember.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely great point. There is a chain of custody and

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Speaker 1: theory for everything in that right hand filing cabinet. This

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Speaker 1: controversy is a series of security violations, misfiled emails, deleted emails, and.

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Speaker 2: That's another big thing, deleted emails.

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Speaker 1: Deleted emails. Yeah, and this started before Clinton became the

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Speaker 1: Democratic candidate in the twenty sixteen campaign, but it continued

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Speaker 1: during the campaign. This didn't really become a national story

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Speaker 1: until March of twenty fifteen, when The New York Times

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Speaker 1: ran a front page article on the subject. The article

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Speaker 1: said that the system quote may have violated federal requirements

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Speaker 1: and was quote alarming unquote to current and former government

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Speaker 1: archive officials. So that's what the Clinton campaign was found doing.

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Speaker 1: Clinton was found to have used her family's private server

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Speaker 1: for official communications instead of official State Department email accounts.

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Speaker 1: This happens to a lot of people on a much

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Speaker 1: smaller scale. Let's say that you have multiple social media accounts.

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Speaker 1: Let's say that, like our good friend Mission Control, you

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Speaker 1: have one account that's Paul something or other, and then

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Speaker 1: you have another account that is Applebee's Facts.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and.

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Speaker 1: You forget to you know, you forget to switch your

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Speaker 1: profile over, and so it sounds more like a Reddit user,

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Speaker 1: it does. It sounds like a great Reddit user name.

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Speaker 1: And then you know, all of a sudden, things that

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Speaker 1: should be said by Paul are being said by apple

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Speaker 1: Bee's Facts, and vice versa. That's that's a much smaller

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Speaker 1: level because Applebee's Facts, and this is not a knock

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Speaker 1: on apple Bee's Facts at all, usually doesn't deal with

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Speaker 1: things like geopolitical tensions in the Middle East yet not yet.

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Speaker 1: I mean those apps are coming, yeah.

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Speaker 2: Or you know, quid pro quo things having to do

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Speaker 2: with the classification of emails.

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Speaker 1: Whenever that whenever I hear quid pro quo, I cannot

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Speaker 1: help but think of silence of the lambs.

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Speaker 2: Oh, really, a little quid pro quote. Clarie what's her name?

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Speaker 1: Which broke qho Clarie?

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Speaker 2: Yes?

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Speaker 1: Uh yeah, did you know? Completely off topic, mattuh. The

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Speaker 1: renowned actor Anthony Hopps, his character Hannibal Lecter that's not

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Speaker 1: a spoiler, is only actually on camera for like a

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Speaker 1: ridiculously small amount of time, like fifteen minutes or something.

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Speaker 2: All told, Yeah, and he won, didn't he win? Oscars

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Speaker 2: Glora that year? We in The Monster of the Zodiac Killer.

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Speaker 2: We actually mentioned that that year that that movie came out.

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Speaker 2: They tailored the entire Oscar ceremony around his character essentially

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Speaker 2: in that movie.

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Speaker 1: It's insane the US does glorify serial killers. Also, I

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Speaker 1: found another ancient serial killer. I think I'm building a

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Speaker 1: pretty good argument I'd like to pitch to you later. Well,

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Speaker 1: I'll do it now. Why don't we do an episode

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Speaker 1: on serial killers before the eighteen hundreds or ancient serial killers?

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Speaker 2: Whoa, I have a treasure trove, really.

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Speaker 1: A lot that will be new to people.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, documented serial killer? Yeah, Okay, that sounds like a

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Speaker 2: holy podcast.

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Speaker 1: We'll see. We'll give it a go. So before we

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Speaker 1: explode the lives of those ancient serial kill let's continue

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Speaker 1: exploring this strange story of emails. Right now, we've outlined

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Speaker 1: the gist, right, let's walk through a little bit more

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Speaker 1: of it. So shortly before she was sworn in as

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Speaker 1: Secretary of State in two thousand and nine, Hillary Clinton

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Speaker 1: had set up an email server at her home in

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Speaker 1: New York. This was home to an email address HDR

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Speaker 1: twenty two at clintonmail dot com, and this was for

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Speaker 1: all of her email correspondence, work related personal stuff during

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Speaker 1: her four years in office. She also set up email

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Speaker 1: addresses on the server for her longtime AID State Department

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Speaker 1: Chief of Staff one Cheryl.

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Speaker 2: Mills, as well Huma Abodeen.

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Speaker 1: Huma Abodeen Yes, yes, was the longtime AID. She did

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Speaker 1: not use or even activate a state dot gov email account,

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Speaker 1: which was a big deal. It would have been hosted

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Speaker 1: on servers owned and managed by the US government. The

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Speaker 1: reason that's an important detail is not necessarily because people

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Speaker 1: thought the Secretary of State was a criminal or doing

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Speaker 1: criminal acts. It's more for operational security or opseca, because

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Speaker 1: other countries, no matter how friendly they are, would love

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Speaker 1: to know what's going on in the US when the

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Speaker 1: doors to the halls of power are closed.

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Speaker 2: Oh, of course, and if you're perhaps someone like Hillary

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Speaker 2: Rodham Clinton, and you stand out that you know that

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Speaker 2: much as a name, as a powerful person within the

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Speaker 2: halls of that power, your private email server is a

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Speaker 2: major target for anyone and everyone who may be looking

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Speaker 2: to find some information. Heck. Yeah. So the FBI ends

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Speaker 2: up getting involved a little later on, and what they

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Speaker 2: found was that over one hundred emails containing some version

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Speaker 2: of classified information were found on her private servers. There

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Speaker 2: were sixty five emails that were considered a secret, classified secret,

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Speaker 2: twenty two were classified top secret, and it doesn't get

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Speaker 2: much more secret than that. Another two thousand, two thousand

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Speaker 2: and ninety three emails were not initially classified, but then

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Speaker 2: they were retroactively classified by the State Department itself.

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Speaker 1: Kind of like upon further consideration, this is sensitive information.

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Speaker 2: And it's important to know that that is the State

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Speaker 2: Department that is doing that. That will come into play

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Speaker 2: a little later.

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Speaker 1: And there's a side note. There are things above top secret,

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Speaker 1: like compartmentalized access your eyes only, yes, but that as

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Speaker 1: far as we know, these emails just went up to

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Speaker 1: top secret, which is still a big deal.

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Speaker 2: Yep.

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Speaker 1: That shouldn't you know, be sitting around on your Yahoo

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Speaker 1: account or something, but you're absolutely right. So something is

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Speaker 1: amiss here. It doesn't matter where you fall politically. Various critics,

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Speaker 1: including Republican members of Congress, are argued that using a

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Speaker 1: private messaging system and server violated State Department protocols, and furthermore,

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Speaker 1: they said this violates federal laws and regulations. The FBI

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Speaker 1: is on the case. As early as two thousand and nine,

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Speaker 1: officials with the NARA, the National Archives and Records Administration,

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Speaker 1: expressed concerns over these possible violations of the standard operating

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Speaker 1: procedure of record keeping at the State Department. December of

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Speaker 1: twenty twelve, near the end of Clinton's tenure as Secretary

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Speaker 1: of State, a nonprofit group with a pretty neat name,

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Speaker 1: Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington or crew Oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: they filed a Freedom of Information Act request to get

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Speaker 1: the records of the departing Secretary of State's emails. They

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Speaker 1: received a response in May of twenty thirteen that said,

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Speaker 1: no records responsive to your request were located. That's government

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Speaker 1: ease for four oh four.

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Speaker 2: Yes, surch error, nothing found. Yeah, and then you you

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Speaker 2: got to look at the certain emails that were sent

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Speaker 2: to that whole clintonmail dot com address, which is terrible

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Speaker 2: to read, by the way, because it looks like Clinton mail.

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Speaker 2: It just doesn't look great. But they were discovered in

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Speaker 2: March twenty thirteen when a hacker who called himself or

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Speaker 2: herself whoever, was Gusifer, and they distributed these emails that

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Speaker 2: were sent to Clinton from Sidney Blumenthal. And this dude, Gusifer,

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Speaker 2: obtained them by illegally accessing Bluomenthal's email account. So this hacker,

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Speaker 2: essentially Gusifer broke into Sidney Bloomenthal's email found all of

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Speaker 2: these private Clinton emails.

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Speaker 1: And Gusifer is a portmanteau of Gucci and Lucifer.

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Speaker 2: So is Guccifer Guccifer. It's Gusifer. I've always heard Goosifer.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I just I like the wordplay. Guys a

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Speaker 1: criminal though. In the summer of twenty four teen, lawyers

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Speaker 1: from the State Department noticed several emails from Clinton's personal

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Speaker 1: account while reviewing documents requested by the House Select Committee

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Speaker 1: on Bengazi, which is a whole other bag of badgers.

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Speaker 2: Oh boy.

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Speaker 1: And then, as we said earlier, at twenty fifteen, New

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Speaker 1: York Times piece comes out it breaks the story that

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Speaker 1: the Bengazi panel had discovered Clinton exclusively used her own

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Speaker 1: private server rather than the government issued one throughout her

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Speaker 1: time as SOS Secretary of State, and that furthermore, her

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Speaker 1: aids took no action to preserve emails that she sent

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Speaker 1: or received from those personal accounts. The State Department and

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Speaker 1: the Intelligence Community Inspector General discovered four emails that had

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Speaker 1: classified information. And this was out, This was a spot check.

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Speaker 1: It was out of a random sample of forty and

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Speaker 1: when they saw that, they said, okay, four out of forty,

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Speaker 1: that's one out of ten. We need to refer this

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Speaker 1: to the FBI, their counterintelligence office. And so they alerted

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Speaker 1: the authorities that this classified intel was kept on the

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Speaker 1: Clinton server and by her lawyer on a thumb drive.

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Speaker 2: Interesting.

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Speaker 1: Then The New York Times runs a story on July

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Speaker 1: twenty fourth, twenty fifteen, with the headline criminal inquiry sought

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Speaker 1: in Clinton's use of email.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And the lead sentence from that story was two

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Speaker 2: Inspectors General have asked the Justice Department to open a

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Speaker 2: criminal investigation into whether Hillary Rodham Clinton mishandled sensitive government

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Speaker 2: information on a private email account she used as Secretary

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Speaker 2: of State. Senior government officials said Thursday, So that's the again,

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Speaker 2: that's the New York Times. You've got them citing senior

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Speaker 2: government officials saying that Hillary Clinton mishandled sensitive information on

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Speaker 2: her private email. That's really all you need to know.

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Speaker 2: That's a big deal. Then, of course you have all

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Speaker 2: of these large US organizations who you know, they jump

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Speaker 2: on and they correct, they correct, the New York Times

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Speaker 2: stating that quote. An important distinction is that the ICIG.

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Speaker 2: The ICIG did not make a criminal referral. It was

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Speaker 2: a security referral made for counterintelligence purposes.

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Speaker 1: So to get back through that government ease, what they

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Speaker 1: are saying is that we were not we were not

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Speaker 1: giving an order to book them Dano. We were saying

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Speaker 1: this could be leveraged by unfriendly foreign powers. Yes, and

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Speaker 1: the Times made two other corrections right, first that Clinton

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Speaker 1: was not the specific target of the referral, and then

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Speaker 1: that it was not criminal in nature. But the funny

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Speaker 1: thing is with redactions, corrections things like that, even in

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Speaker 1: large papers of note, they legally correct the record, but

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Speaker 1: they do nothing for the court of public opinion. You

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Speaker 1: know what I mean?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, remember the first thing, especially the first headline.

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Speaker 2: If you see Clinton email scandal in a headline, somewhere,

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Speaker 2: or Clinton email referral, or just some other combination in

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Speaker 2: that where you've got a person, a bad thing, and

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Speaker 2: an object, that's what you remember and doesn't matter if

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Speaker 2: a week later, two days later, there's a correction on

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Speaker 2: the original article, even if they tweet out correction, this

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Speaker 2: was not what it was. Nobody gives a crap.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Typically, typically, and that's not a ding on anyone's intelligence.

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Speaker 1: That's just the nature of psychology for most people. Precisely, So,

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Speaker 1: how did this initial investigation, how did this all shake out?

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Speaker 1: Will tell you after a word from our sponsor.

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Speaker 2: All right, we're back. So let's jump to July fifth

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Speaker 2: of twenty sixteen. There's this gentleman named Comy, James Comy.

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Speaker 2: He was the director of the FBI. You may remember this.

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Speaker 2: I haven't said that name in a long time. I

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Speaker 2: used to say it a lot. But he announced that

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Speaker 2: the FBI completed its investigation and he was gonna, you know,

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Speaker 2: they were going to talk to the State Department with

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Speaker 2: a certain recommendation, and that recommendation was that no charges

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Speaker 2: are appropriate in this case. That's great news for the

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Speaker 2: Clinton campaign and all of the supporters. He went on

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Speaker 2: to say, that although there is evidence of potential violations

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Speaker 2: of the statutes regarding the handling of classified information, our

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Speaker 2: judgment is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case. Now,

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Speaker 2: in this initial messaging that's coming from the FBI from

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Speaker 2: Comey the Director.

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Speaker 1: Again July twenty sixteen.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly July. They just it seems like, hey, this

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Speaker 2: email thing happened. It's a little bit of carelessness. But

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Speaker 2: you know what, We're okay. Nobody did anything on purpose

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Speaker 2: to hurt anybody else. It was just they used a

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Speaker 2: private server. Slap the hand, let's move on.

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Speaker 1: Sloppy but not sinister.

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Speaker 2: There you go, right, So but that changed.

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Speaker 1: The thing is that changes? There's another there's another investigation.

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Speaker 1: On October twenty eighth, twenty sixteen, Comy tells Congress that,

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Speaker 1: in connection with an unrelated case, the FBI has learned

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Speaker 1: of the existence of emails that appear pertinent to the investigation.

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Speaker 1: We're going through a lot of context here, so but

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Speaker 1: we'll get through it. It'll be worth it at the end.

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Speaker 1: This unrelated case to which they referred was the FBI

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Speaker 1: investigation of the famously and hilariously tragically named Anthony Weener.

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Speaker 2: Oh yes, from The Daily Show.

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Speaker 1: Famously from the famously from The Daily Show. This guy,

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Speaker 1: despite you know his name, might make you think he

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Speaker 1: has a sense of humor, but he had busted sending

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Speaker 1: sexually explicit text to a child, a fifteen year old girl.

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Speaker 1: The FBI discovered emails from his estranged wife, who was

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Speaker 1: what was her name again.

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Speaker 2: The aforementioned Huma Aberdeen.

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Speaker 1: Huma Aberdeen the vice chair of the Clinton presidential campaign,

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Speaker 1: and because of this, they considered these emails might be

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Speaker 1: relevant to the investigation. At the time, Comy said the

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Speaker 1: FBI would take appropriate investigative steps designed to allow investigators

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Speaker 1: to review these emails to determine whether they contain classified

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Speaker 1: information as well as to assess their importance to the investigation. Now,

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Speaker 1: anytime we talk about government procedure, I know it can

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Speaker 1: feel increasingly like a snoozefest. Yeah, acronyms and initialisms flying

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Speaker 1: willy nilly. Everybody is talking like someone from the DMV

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Speaker 1: wrote their speech.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's talking around things a lot of the time,

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Speaker 2: or of the procedures and the procedural nature. Yeah, it's

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Speaker 2: pretty crazy.

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Speaker 1: Well, and there's a reason for that, right because you

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Speaker 1: want to make sure you get every letter, every syllable, perfect, Just.

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Speaker 2: To jump in before we're going to such a good idea.

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Speaker 2: We were joking as we were going through the hum

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Speaker 2: abadeen stuff with Anthony Wiener. Just let's just take a

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Speaker 2: moment to say how disgusting that is that he was

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Speaker 2: sending inappropriate pictures to a fifteen year old. Yeah, really awful.

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Speaker 2: We are not making light of that. It kind of

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Speaker 2: slid past us as we were joking through this disgusting right, Okay,

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Speaker 2: I think, okay, we can move on.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, I hope that was never a question for anybody,

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Speaker 1: but yes, just to be crystal clear, bold it, underline it,

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Speaker 1: stamp that gross perfect.

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Speaker 2: Okay.

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Speaker 1: So on November sixth, twenty sixteen, mere days before the election,

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Speaker 1: Comy sends a letter to Congress, and he says, look,

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Speaker 1: we worked around the clock and we're sticking with our

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Speaker 1: guns from July. Sorry everybody, this was careless, but we

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Speaker 1: do not believe it was a crime.

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Speaker 2: Literally days before the election, as you said.

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Speaker 1: And furthermore, despite criticisms that this was a superbly time

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Speaker 1: October surprise, one of those last minute things that can

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Speaker 1: happen that can swing the needle towards one candidate or

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Speaker 1: another comy claimed that both the investigation and its conclusions

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Speaker 1: were a political They had nothing to do with politics.

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Speaker 1: Where the FBI, we have a job. We do our job.

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Speaker 1: Their job is to try to get elected. Our job

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Speaker 1: is counterintelligence and fighting crime. And we did it. No

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Speaker 1: surprise spoiler alert for anyone who hasn't caught up with

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Speaker 1: the news. Since the Clinton campaign was unsuccessful, Donald Trump

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Speaker 1: became the President of the United States, and people who

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Speaker 1: opposed the Clinton campaign or thought there was something rotten

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Speaker 1: in Washington were not persuaded by the FBI's two investigations.

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Speaker 1: They said, it was like it's cover up. It's rotten,

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Speaker 1: from its fat cats at the top all the way

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Speaker 1: to fat cats. Given reports in Congress, these cats are.

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Speaker 2: Just ob yeah, too many and too fat.

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Speaker 1: Too many and too fat, they said, yes, that's a quote.

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Speaker 1: It seemed that despite the FBI's claims that there there

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Speaker 1: was nothing wonky about their timing, it seemed that whomever

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Speaker 1: had managed to orchestrate this story and narrative of private

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Speaker 1: versus government emails, who had managed to turn it into

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Speaker 1: a chant and a rallying point for oppositional media, had

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Speaker 1: done this masterful job. Hillary Clinton herself cited this as

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00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:38,679
Speaker 1: one of the factors in losing the election.

437
00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:42,440
Speaker 2: I would one thousand percent agree that this was a

438
00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:44,840
Speaker 2: huge factor. It is what everybody was talking about.

439
00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:49,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, it couldn't have been the only factor, no, but.

440
00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:53,120
Speaker 2: It was still the thing that if you thought about

441
00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:57,679
Speaker 2: Hillary Clinton right around that time, like October, late October,

442
00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:02,000
Speaker 2: early November, it was Clinton email.

443
00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:04,680
Speaker 1: It was the you mean like, it was the first

444
00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:07,719
Speaker 1: keyword that popped up in everybody's mental Google.

445
00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:10,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, even if you were a supporter or something, I

446
00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:13,600
Speaker 2: guarantee you that was happening, even if it was like Clinton,

447
00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:15,600
Speaker 2: oh gosh, emails whatever.

448
00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:20,399
Speaker 1: Well, the calls for investigation into this matter did not cease.

449
00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:25,240
Speaker 1: This association was prominent in people's minds even after the election,

450
00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:31,480
Speaker 1: and furthermore, they felt that justice had not been done

451
00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:36,359
Speaker 1: or something was a miss. And these calls for investigation

452
00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:42,040
Speaker 1: continued even as the Trump administration floundered. Several times, both

453
00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:46,560
Speaker 1: on the domestic and international stage, the White House itself

454
00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:51,280
Speaker 1: increasingly called for more investigation into the Clinton campaign's classification

455
00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:54,719
Speaker 1: of emails. They went so far as to fire James

456
00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:57,840
Speaker 1: Comy for this and some other and fired him for

457
00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:00,600
Speaker 1: some other reasons which could be episode all their own

458
00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:05,280
Speaker 1: one day. Today, this subject remains a rallying call for

459
00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:10,159
Speaker 1: some voters on the right. Foreign intelligence agencies who pretend

460
00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:13,400
Speaker 1: to be voters are also very ardent about this, and

461
00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:17,800
Speaker 1: politicians who will go on record today saying that they

462
00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:21,840
Speaker 1: feel there was a cover up. Now, let's get to

463
00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:25,760
Speaker 1: the rumors, right, it's correct, Just like the ongoing arguments

464
00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:29,200
Speaker 1: about the release of the Muller Report, the FBI's conclusion

465
00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:31,960
Speaker 1: on the Clinton emails, let a lot of people feeling like,

466
00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:36,159
Speaker 1: this is not this is the this is the edited version,

467
00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:38,720
Speaker 1: the redacted version. I want the director's cut, I want

468
00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:43,640
Speaker 1: the theatrical production. Tell me what actually happened. Because for

469
00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:48,160
Speaker 1: supporters of the FBI's conclusions, and again typically these would

470
00:28:48,160 --> 00:28:51,040
Speaker 1: be supporters of the Clinton campaign, this was all pr

471
00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:54,520
Speaker 1: sound and fake news, fury smoke with no fire, mirrors,

472
00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:58,520
Speaker 1: with no reflection, a manufactured crisis that accomplished exactly what

473
00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:01,680
Speaker 1: it was created to do to remove Clinton and therefore

474
00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:04,120
Speaker 1: the Democratic Party from the election game.

475
00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:09,440
Speaker 2: Yeah. But of course, for the people who are opponents

476
00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:14,400
Speaker 2: of Hillary sometimes generally supporters of the Trump campaign. In

477
00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:19,479
Speaker 2: twenty sixteen, people thought that this story was itself swept

478
00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:23,120
Speaker 2: under the rug after she lost the election, like perhaps

479
00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:26,840
Speaker 2: something else should have happened. You may remember chance from

480
00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:29,560
Speaker 2: rallies that you would see on television of lock her up.

481
00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:30,160
Speaker 1: Right.

482
00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:33,120
Speaker 2: It was because some people truly believed that there was

483
00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:36,040
Speaker 2: such a mishandling of this stuff that it was criminal.

484
00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:40,320
Speaker 2: You know, whether they believe that because some pundit was

485
00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:43,880
Speaker 2: talking about it, or because you know, some news story

486
00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:47,760
Speaker 2: came out that was read incorrectly. Who knows, but people

487
00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:51,000
Speaker 2: certainly felt that way. But they were, and that's because

488
00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:52,760
Speaker 2: they thought there was even more to the story than

489
00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:56,280
Speaker 2: what was being represented by the FBI's conclusions within their reports.

490
00:29:56,360 --> 00:29:59,360
Speaker 2: They thought that maybe it was a bigger cover up

491
00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:02,880
Speaker 2: of some big thing, of perhaps further corruption than just

492
00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:06,520
Speaker 2: using an email server. Perhaps there was something deeper, as

493
00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:10,240
Speaker 2: in a deep state within the US government that was

494
00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:14,640
Speaker 2: operating outside of the control of elected officials.

495
00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:20,000
Speaker 1: A shadow government. Here's where it gets crazy. First, let's

496
00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:23,800
Speaker 1: define what a shadow government actually is. It's not always bad.

497
00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:27,640
Speaker 1: In the world of British politics, there's the shadow cabinet.

498
00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:30,120
Speaker 1: All that is is a group of people from the

499
00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:35,240
Speaker 1: opposition party who form a different cabinet mirroring or wait

500
00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:40,560
Speaker 1: for it, shadowing the positions of each member of the

501
00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:46,800
Speaker 1: real cabinet. So there's a person from the opposition side

502
00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:50,640
Speaker 1: who will scrutinize the policies and actions of their counterpart

503
00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:54,120
Speaker 1: in the real cabinet, and they will present alternatives. Vote

504
00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:56,160
Speaker 1: for us, they say, because this is what we would

505
00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:56,520
Speaker 1: have done.

506
00:30:56,720 --> 00:30:59,080
Speaker 2: I get it, like a Teresa May and then a

507
00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:02,880
Speaker 2: shadow Reason May with a mustache and like a black

508
00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:03,600
Speaker 2: hat or something.

509
00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:06,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, so you've seen you've seen it.

510
00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:07,520
Speaker 2: I've seen it.

511
00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:11,920
Speaker 1: So in this case, people are talking about the other,

512
00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:15,480
Speaker 1: the other definition of a shadow government. It's not near

513
00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:18,520
Speaker 1: as neat nor as helpful as the British shadow government.

514
00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:21,880
Speaker 1: In the US, the term shadow government refers to two

515
00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:25,080
Speaker 1: or three things. The first one is absolutely legal, we

516
00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:28,880
Speaker 1: need it. It's the continuity of government, the pre planned

517
00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:32,000
Speaker 1: order of secession in the event of one or more

518
00:31:32,080 --> 00:31:35,600
Speaker 1: deaths in the executive branch and Congress. The president dies,

519
00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:38,720
Speaker 1: who's in charge now? When's the vice president? The vice

520
00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:41,560
Speaker 1: president dies, who's in charge now? And on and on

521
00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:45,840
Speaker 1: and on and one of the one of the most

522
00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:48,360
Speaker 1: interesting questions to me when I was when I was

523
00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:52,360
Speaker 1: a kid, it was a very, very strange answer. You know,

524
00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:54,840
Speaker 1: I asked that question. A lot of children asked, uh,

525
00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:59,680
Speaker 1: do you think I could be president? And family member

526
00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:04,800
Speaker 1: can reveal who, and their associates said, well, sure, you

527
00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:08,280
Speaker 1: might be president tomorrow. It depends on what happens tonight.

528
00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:11,560
Speaker 1: And that's how I learned about the line of secession.

529
00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:16,560
Speaker 2: WHOA are you up there? Are you in the like thousands?

530
00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:19,880
Speaker 1: No, it would have to be like millions, hundreds of

531
00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:21,920
Speaker 1: millions of people would have to die.

532
00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:24,240
Speaker 2: We got to change that. We need to get you

533
00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:25,320
Speaker 2: higher upon that list.

534
00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:26,480
Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't think.

535
00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:27,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think so.

536
00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:29,880
Speaker 1: I appreciate that, but I would nominate you instead.

537
00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:35,600
Speaker 2: Uh, nope, but Paul Paul, Yeah, yeah, it's Paul. I

538
00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:37,040
Speaker 2: seem he's nodding. He would take that on.

539
00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:40,280
Speaker 1: He would take that on. So that's that's the legal one.

540
00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:42,880
Speaker 1: But then there's what you mentioned earlier, Matt, the deep state.

541
00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:47,760
Speaker 1: This is an entrenched, allegedly entrenched network of unelected bureaucrats.

542
00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:50,480
Speaker 1: They're thought to wield the purse strings, the influence and

543
00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:54,200
Speaker 1: the power needed to actually run the US and therefore

544
00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:58,240
Speaker 1: a lot of the world behind the scenes. So haha,

545
00:32:58,280 --> 00:32:59,960
Speaker 1: they say, you've been elected.

546
00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:04,960
Speaker 2: For what four years. Yeah, you are a flicker glimmer

547
00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:07,160
Speaker 2: in the eye of some of these people. And there

548
00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:10,280
Speaker 2: really are positions like that that exist within Washington and

549
00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:13,800
Speaker 2: the structure. It doesn't necessarily necessarily mean that they're all

550
00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:17,760
Speaker 2: working together for one big thing, sure, but they exist

551
00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:22,040
Speaker 2: and they are arguably more powerful in a way than

552
00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:24,320
Speaker 2: anyone that holds any office for four years.

553
00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:28,720
Speaker 1: Think the president, even in any large organization in the

554
00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:33,440
Speaker 1: US government is huge, most governments are. In any large organization,

555
00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:37,000
Speaker 1: we see that communication tends to break down and people

556
00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:40,200
Speaker 1: become gatekeepers of information. They run their own fiefdoms.

557
00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:41,960
Speaker 3: Yeah.

558
00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:45,200
Speaker 1: So the third, just for the sake of argument, the

559
00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:48,880
Speaker 1: third possibility is the massive amount of private influence wielded

560
00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:53,400
Speaker 1: by billionaires or other governments or foreign businesses that want

561
00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:57,120
Speaker 1: to push their interests domestically and abroad. You know, like

562
00:33:57,360 --> 00:34:01,840
Speaker 1: a foreign trade consortium puts in hundreds of millions of

563
00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:08,799
Speaker 1: dollars toward US lobbying to get more favorable trade arrangements. Right,

564
00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:16,399
Speaker 1: let's let's kick off the tariffs on these plush garfield cooozies. Yeah,

565
00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:21,120
Speaker 1: that are that we're pushing. I don't know why. Look,

566
00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:22,920
Speaker 1: that's not my best example, but you know what I'm

567
00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:25,960
Speaker 1: talking about. I dig it exam. Another example of this

568
00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:28,760
Speaker 1: on the domestic end would be the Koch brothers, who

569
00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:33,960
Speaker 1: have for decades been making inroads to push the US

570
00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:36,759
Speaker 1: more toward the kind of governance that they would like

571
00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:41,080
Speaker 1: to see, which is alternately described as more libertarian government

572
00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:42,960
Speaker 1: and neo feudalism.

573
00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:46,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, the money, we're really we're talking about the power

574
00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:48,880
Speaker 2: if you're talking about the entrenched deep state, and then

575
00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:51,200
Speaker 2: with these private influencers, we're really talking.

576
00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:53,759
Speaker 1: About the money, right, right, and these things can all

577
00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:57,799
Speaker 1: happen concurrently. That's the messed up part. Yeah, it gets complicated.

578
00:34:57,840 --> 00:35:02,319
Speaker 1: But usually when you hear about a shadow government here

579
00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:06,160
Speaker 1: in the States, it will come from It'll often come

580
00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:10,799
Speaker 1: from the political right. It used to be, it used

581
00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:14,879
Speaker 1: to be in times past, a phrase used by the

582
00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:18,480
Speaker 1: far far left and the far far right, who often

583
00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:21,520
Speaker 1: agree on things, and more so than perhaps the media

584
00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:22,440
Speaker 1: would have you believe.

585
00:35:22,640 --> 00:35:23,920
Speaker 2: Right, But.

586
00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:28,720
Speaker 1: This argument always hinges on that notion of the deep state.

587
00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:31,440
Speaker 1: For people who believed in this kind of shadow government,

588
00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:37,120
Speaker 1: the Seventh Floor Group was proof positive that something was

589
00:35:37,239 --> 00:35:39,080
Speaker 1: wrong in the Beltway.

590
00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:42,160
Speaker 2: And what the heck is the Seventh Floor Group, Well,

591
00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:45,240
Speaker 2: we'll talk about it right after a word from our sponsor.

592
00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:54,319
Speaker 1: So the seventh Floor Group or the Shadow Government, and

593
00:35:54,360 --> 00:35:56,359
Speaker 1: we promised that this femail stuff would pay off.

594
00:35:56,560 --> 00:36:00,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, in the third the last thirty episode. But a

595
00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:02,880
Speaker 2: lot of the stuff we've been talking about, really you

596
00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:05,480
Speaker 2: have to remember that and know that stuff before we

597
00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:05,919
Speaker 2: get here.

598
00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:08,319
Speaker 1: Yes, a bit of a secuitous route, but we went

599
00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:11,640
Speaker 1: the most direct way possible. So we mentioned that the

600
00:36:11,719 --> 00:36:16,440
Speaker 1: FBI investigation, both of them found what they saw is

601
00:36:16,520 --> 00:36:19,920
Speaker 1: no evidence of crime, right sure, and a lot of

602
00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:22,839
Speaker 1: people really took that on the chin because they were

603
00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:26,200
Speaker 1: certain that this would be hard evidence, smoking gun of

604
00:36:26,239 --> 00:36:30,600
Speaker 1: a crime. However, they did find some stuff because they

605
00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:34,439
Speaker 1: dug deep. In October twenty sixteen, the FBI released four

606
00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:39,600
Speaker 1: sets of documents, including notes and interview summaries, and in

607
00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:45,440
Speaker 1: this summary, in the fourth part of the release, they

608
00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:47,240
Speaker 1: found a revelation.

609
00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:50,120
Speaker 2: Okay, so just to set this up so you understand

610
00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:54,919
Speaker 2: what it is, through the FBI's vault. The vault that's

611
00:36:55,160 --> 00:36:58,320
Speaker 2: where you can find these things. However, they've been removed.

612
00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:02,440
Speaker 2: These specific ones relating to the Hillary Clinton campaign have

613
00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:05,960
Speaker 2: been removed from the vault the FBI's website, but if

614
00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:10,520
Speaker 2: you go to the archive dot org wayback machine and

615
00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:13,440
Speaker 2: you put in the URL, you can find this. It's

616
00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:15,080
Speaker 2: difficult to find there a couple of players. You can

617
00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:18,080
Speaker 2: get to it, but it's called Hillary R. Clinton, Part

618
00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:22,040
Speaker 2: four of six. That's what it's called. You can find it.

619
00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:27,040
Speaker 2: And essentially, these are just, as Ben said, summations of

620
00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:30,560
Speaker 2: interviews that they that they had with people, just individuals

621
00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:34,880
Speaker 2: regarding the Hillary Clinton email campaign scandal or whatever it was,

622
00:37:35,320 --> 00:37:37,440
Speaker 2: talking about the private servers, what they knew, when they

623
00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:41,279
Speaker 2: knew it, and all of that. And inside here you

624
00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:46,200
Speaker 2: find one specific or there are several specific things. But

625
00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:48,759
Speaker 2: in one of these, one of the documents came from

626
00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:52,640
Speaker 2: an interview with an unidentified person who suggested that the FOIA,

627
00:37:52,840 --> 00:37:55,720
Speaker 2: the Freedom of Information Act requests related to the Clinton

628
00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:59,560
Speaker 2: to Clinton, anything related to Clinton, went through a group

629
00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:03,239
Speaker 2: that was some kind sometimes referred to at least internally

630
00:38:03,600 --> 00:38:05,680
Speaker 2: as the shadow government.

631
00:38:05,560 --> 00:38:07,320
Speaker 1: As literally the shadow government.

632
00:38:07,560 --> 00:38:10,040
Speaker 2: So you know, first of all, we have to say,

633
00:38:10,120 --> 00:38:13,680
Speaker 2: maybe this was maybe that's kind of an inside joke, right, maybe,

634
00:38:14,080 --> 00:38:17,200
Speaker 2: but let's keep listening in here, because according to this

635
00:38:17,239 --> 00:38:21,000
Speaker 2: anonymous person quote, there was a powerful group of very

636
00:38:21,200 --> 00:38:25,680
Speaker 2: high ranking state and that state Department officials that some

637
00:38:25,800 --> 00:38:29,880
Speaker 2: referred to as the Seventh Floor Group or the shadow Government,

638
00:38:30,480 --> 00:38:34,040
Speaker 2: met every Wednesday afternoon to discuss the Freedom of Information

639
00:38:34,120 --> 00:38:38,240
Speaker 2: Act process with regards to Clinton. We're talking congressional records

640
00:38:38,239 --> 00:38:42,160
Speaker 2: and everything related to Clinton and Freedom of Information Act

641
00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:45,440
Speaker 2: and congressional inquiries. So this group, literally they were the

642
00:38:45,480 --> 00:38:48,280
Speaker 2: gatekeepers for everything Clinton related.

643
00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:54,080
Speaker 1: And they were a powerful filter. Right, yes, so this,

644
00:38:54,440 --> 00:38:57,880
Speaker 1: oddly enough, it sounds pretty crazy. Oddly enough, this was

645
00:38:57,920 --> 00:39:01,040
Speaker 1: not a primary focus of mainstream media coverage. It did

646
00:39:01,080 --> 00:39:04,320
Speaker 1: receive mention across the board, and those opposed to the

647
00:39:04,360 --> 00:39:07,520
Speaker 1: Clinton campaign quickly took this and ran with it. I mean,

648
00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:10,759
Speaker 1: you can't you can't blame those people because if you

649
00:39:11,040 --> 00:39:14,759
Speaker 1: if you object to a politician or a group, what

650
00:39:14,840 --> 00:39:19,160
Speaker 1: a what a gift to have this, to have somebody

651
00:39:19,160 --> 00:39:23,040
Speaker 1: and they're foolish enough to call themselves the shadow government.

652
00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:25,200
Speaker 2: My very own State Department shadow government.

653
00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:28,840
Speaker 1: That's like, like, I don't care who you are in

654
00:39:28,920 --> 00:39:32,040
Speaker 1: politics or who you wish to be. That's up there

655
00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:37,080
Speaker 1: with opening a golf club called Illuminati. Only you know

656
00:39:37,160 --> 00:39:40,359
Speaker 1: what I mean, Even if you say it's a joke, no,

657
00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:43,360
Speaker 1: not everyone is going to be on board. So here's

658
00:39:43,400 --> 00:39:46,960
Speaker 1: what we know according to the FBI summary, and again

659
00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:50,080
Speaker 1: these are not actual transcripts. The group argued for a

660
00:39:50,120 --> 00:39:53,520
Speaker 1: Clinton document release to be conducted all at once for

661
00:39:53,719 --> 00:39:59,120
Speaker 1: what they called coordination purposes instead of on a rolling basis,

662
00:39:59,160 --> 00:40:02,000
Speaker 1: and that would normally be the case. That again, to

663
00:40:02,040 --> 00:40:05,720
Speaker 1: your point, Matt, sounds like more procedural than a super

664
00:40:05,719 --> 00:40:11,280
Speaker 1: big deal. A spokesperson for the State Department said, we

665
00:40:11,440 --> 00:40:15,960
Speaker 1: categorically deny this claim, these related claims. There's a big

666
00:40:15,960 --> 00:40:19,719
Speaker 1: one coming up. And they said these allegations are inaccurate,

667
00:40:19,760 --> 00:40:23,120
Speaker 1: they don't align with the facts. To be clear, the

668
00:40:23,239 --> 00:40:27,080
Speaker 1: State Department did upgrade the document at the request of

669
00:40:27,120 --> 00:40:31,440
Speaker 1: the FBI. We released it. He's speaking of a specific document.

670
00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:34,239
Speaker 1: We'll get to. But let's look at the players. So

671
00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:37,839
Speaker 1: the seventh Floor Group was believed to meet on Wednesdays

672
00:40:38,400 --> 00:40:41,400
Speaker 1: on the seventh floor right of their building, and the

673
00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:45,080
Speaker 1: meetings were attended by some real internal power players Under

674
00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:49,640
Speaker 1: Secretary of State Patrick Kennedy, Secretary of State at that point,

675
00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:55,239
Speaker 1: John Carey, Deputy Chief of Staff Jennifer Stout, Deputy Secretary

676
00:40:55,280 --> 00:41:00,320
Speaker 1: of State for Management Resources, Assistant Secretary Julia frith Field,

677
00:41:00,719 --> 00:41:04,680
Speaker 1: and unnamed members of the office of the Legal Advisorice,

678
00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:06,160
Speaker 1: Notice how the lawyers got away?

679
00:41:06,480 --> 00:41:09,840
Speaker 2: Uh yeah, yeah, yeah, and just it's a bunch of attorneys.

680
00:41:10,360 --> 00:41:12,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, which, you know, if we were going to be

681
00:41:12,480 --> 00:41:16,680
Speaker 1: wildly speculative, can't you can't you easily imagine someone saying,

682
00:41:16,880 --> 00:41:19,239
Speaker 1: I'll tell you about the seventh Floor, but I want

683
00:41:19,280 --> 00:41:21,319
Speaker 1: full immunity, you know what I mean?

684
00:41:21,400 --> 00:41:24,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I can actually see that very much.

685
00:41:24,840 --> 00:41:29,120
Speaker 1: So well, is it a big deal? What? What's the

686
00:41:29,120 --> 00:41:31,480
Speaker 1: big deal here? The big deal here is apparently that

687
00:41:31,600 --> 00:41:35,160
Speaker 1: the shadow government or the Seventh Floor group asked the

688
00:41:35,239 --> 00:41:38,719
Speaker 1: FBI to declassify some emails so they wouldn't be thought

689
00:41:38,719 --> 00:41:44,080
Speaker 1: of as security leaks. And the smoking gun for four

690
00:41:44,120 --> 00:41:48,360
Speaker 1: people who believe that this was sinister was the alleged

691
00:41:48,400 --> 00:41:52,080
Speaker 1: action of Under Secretary of State Patrick Kennedy. According to

692
00:41:52,120 --> 00:41:55,400
Speaker 1: the claims in the interview, he contacted the FBI to

693
00:41:55,520 --> 00:41:59,160
Speaker 1: ask for the change in classification in exchange for a

694
00:41:59,280 --> 00:42:00,920
Speaker 1: quid pro quote.

695
00:42:02,320 --> 00:42:07,640
Speaker 2: Isn't that crazy? An old quid pro quote? Clarice, And again,

696
00:42:07,719 --> 00:42:10,520
Speaker 2: this this guy is important. He's also a Kennedy. Do

697
00:42:10,560 --> 00:42:13,880
Speaker 2: we know if he's a Kennedy? Kennedy, Patrick Kennedy, I

698
00:42:13,920 --> 00:42:17,600
Speaker 2: honestly don't know who cares check this out, so if

699
00:42:17,640 --> 00:42:21,520
Speaker 2: he go, he probably cares. Okay. So on page four

700
00:42:21,640 --> 00:42:24,440
Speaker 2: of that FBI vault document that you can find on

701
00:42:24,560 --> 00:42:29,920
Speaker 2: the web dot archive dot org, it says that there

702
00:42:29,960 --> 00:42:31,879
Speaker 2: was this big meeting they're talking about with the State

703
00:42:31,920 --> 00:42:35,839
Speaker 2: Department with They called it an all agency meeting, and

704
00:42:36,840 --> 00:42:40,160
Speaker 2: this person, Patrick Kennedy that we're speaking about, he presided

705
00:42:40,200 --> 00:42:43,040
Speaker 2: over the meeting, and during the conversation, one of the

706
00:42:43,080 --> 00:42:46,160
Speaker 2: people specifically asked whether any member of the emails in

707
00:42:46,280 --> 00:42:52,440
Speaker 2: question were classified. Making eye contact with predacted, Kennedy remarked, well,

708
00:42:52,760 --> 00:42:56,800
Speaker 2: we'll see. And this is apparently while he was making

709
00:42:57,200 --> 00:42:59,839
Speaker 2: again making eye contact with somebody as in like a hey,

710
00:42:59,880 --> 00:43:02,560
Speaker 2: maybe we'll find out what's going on. And then he

711
00:43:02,640 --> 00:43:06,840
Speaker 2: went on to discuss essentially a quid pro quo about

712
00:43:07,160 --> 00:43:11,399
Speaker 2: perhaps putting FBI agents in countries where FBI agents are

713
00:43:11,400 --> 00:43:14,759
Speaker 2: generally not allowed to be, Like maybe if you can

714
00:43:14,840 --> 00:43:18,640
Speaker 2: change the classification, we'll do something for you, something beyond

715
00:43:18,800 --> 00:43:21,200
Speaker 2: what anyone would imagine it would be possible.

716
00:43:21,640 --> 00:43:23,680
Speaker 1: Scratch a mat back, scratch a yo back.

717
00:43:23,760 --> 00:43:26,000
Speaker 2: Guy, Yeah, we'll get We'll get FBI agents in this

718
00:43:26,040 --> 00:43:28,640
Speaker 2: country where they're not supposed to be. That's a huge deal.

719
00:43:29,160 --> 00:43:33,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, So the FBI, the FBI said, okay, what

720
00:43:34,239 --> 00:43:38,080
Speaker 1: happened was, yeah, you know, what had happened was that

721
00:43:38,120 --> 00:43:42,440
Speaker 1: the FBI determined that there was an email senior State

722
00:43:42,480 --> 00:43:46,200
Speaker 1: Department official request of the FBI to quote re review

723
00:43:46,320 --> 00:43:49,640
Speaker 1: this and look at it again. Just make sure that

724
00:43:50,760 --> 00:43:53,600
Speaker 1: you know, do your job, but do it again. Is

725
00:43:53,640 --> 00:43:57,120
Speaker 1: it classified? Are you sure? Yeah, but you'd have to

726
00:43:57,160 --> 00:43:59,960
Speaker 1: look at it again to be sure. Right. That's basically

727
00:44:00,120 --> 00:44:03,360
Speaker 1: won went down. And then they say that an FBI

728
00:44:03,400 --> 00:44:06,719
Speaker 1: official who was not part of the later Clinton investigation

729
00:44:07,560 --> 00:44:12,960
Speaker 1: told the State's apartment, the guy at the State's Department, well,

730
00:44:13,000 --> 00:44:17,480
Speaker 1: you know, now that you mention it, I guess I

731
00:44:17,520 --> 00:44:21,120
Speaker 1: could look at it again. You know, would really helped

732
00:44:21,160 --> 00:44:26,799
Speaker 1: me look at it. If if we could maybe also

733
00:44:26,840 --> 00:44:29,279
Speaker 1: address just while I've got you on the line, Yeah,

734
00:44:29,320 --> 00:44:31,560
Speaker 1: while I got you on the line, here, pat, if

735
00:44:31,640 --> 00:44:35,239
Speaker 1: we could also address our risk that request they keep

736
00:44:35,239 --> 00:44:38,880
Speaker 1: putting in for space for additional FBI employees assigned abroad,

737
00:44:38,920 --> 00:44:40,799
Speaker 1: because you know, I've sent you several emails and tried

738
00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:43,719
Speaker 1: to call them multiple times. Now you answer the phone.

739
00:44:43,400 --> 00:44:45,600
Speaker 2: Well, you know what, I think maybe we can take

740
00:44:45,640 --> 00:44:48,160
Speaker 2: care of it. If some of those emails, you know,

741
00:44:49,400 --> 00:44:54,280
Speaker 2: ended up being unclassified, right, that sounds like a pretty

742
00:44:54,320 --> 00:44:55,319
Speaker 2: good deal to me.

743
00:44:57,760 --> 00:44:59,840
Speaker 1: Sort of a cool.

744
00:45:02,880 --> 00:45:04,360
Speaker 2: Pro quote.

745
00:45:04,640 --> 00:45:06,920
Speaker 1: Well, I'm hanging out. No, no, you hang up? You

746
00:45:06,920 --> 00:45:07,239
Speaker 1: hang up?

747
00:45:08,560 --> 00:45:09,160
Speaker 2: Are you still there?

748
00:45:09,440 --> 00:45:10,600
Speaker 1: Are you still there?

749
00:45:10,640 --> 00:45:11,200
Speaker 2: Going to hang up?

750
00:45:11,760 --> 00:45:14,560
Speaker 1: That's how they that's how they had this conversation shortly,

751
00:45:15,719 --> 00:45:16,719
Speaker 1: oh man, And.

752
00:45:16,680 --> 00:45:18,720
Speaker 2: They were both recording the whole time, and they were.

753
00:45:18,560 --> 00:45:21,040
Speaker 1: Both recording the whole time. We're being a little bit glib,

754
00:45:21,080 --> 00:45:26,960
Speaker 1: but you can see it's it's somewhat the FBI is

755
00:45:27,120 --> 00:45:30,920
Speaker 1: making valid distinctions, right, Yes, But of course people would

756
00:45:31,000 --> 00:45:34,200
Speaker 1: deny this kind of one hand washes the other sort

757
00:45:34,239 --> 00:45:40,760
Speaker 1: of stuff. So, following this call, the FBI officials, now retired,

758
00:45:41,160 --> 00:45:44,799
Speaker 1: got with a senior FBI executive who was responsible for

759
00:45:44,880 --> 00:45:49,640
Speaker 1: determining classification, and they decided that it was in fact

760
00:45:50,000 --> 00:45:53,040
Speaker 1: classified secret the way it was supposed to be. So

761
00:45:53,239 --> 00:45:56,239
Speaker 1: FBI guy goes back to the State Department contact he

762
00:45:56,280 --> 00:46:00,520
Speaker 1: has and he says, look, it's classified. We looked at

763
00:46:00,560 --> 00:46:03,560
Speaker 1: it twice and it's supposed to stay secret, and we

764
00:46:03,600 --> 00:46:07,280
Speaker 1: can't change it. And it wasn't changed. It remains classified today.

765
00:46:07,360 --> 00:46:09,560
Speaker 1: The FBI concludes, and you can see this on their

766
00:46:09,600 --> 00:46:12,239
Speaker 1: own website. Although there was never a quid pro quo,

767
00:46:12,400 --> 00:46:16,880
Speaker 1: these allegations were nonetheless referred to the appropriate officials for review.

768
00:46:17,239 --> 00:46:20,480
Speaker 1: So they said, look, we know nothing went down, but

769
00:46:20,960 --> 00:46:23,480
Speaker 1: just to keep our nose clean, we asked some other

770
00:46:23,520 --> 00:46:26,600
Speaker 1: people to look at it, because with the FBI, we're apolitical.

771
00:46:27,000 --> 00:46:29,080
Speaker 1: We do our job, they do their job.

772
00:46:29,200 --> 00:46:32,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, and to be fair, there was no quid pro

773
00:46:32,400 --> 00:46:36,680
Speaker 2: quo in this instance of these you know exchanges that

774
00:46:36,719 --> 00:46:39,440
Speaker 2: we that became public.

775
00:46:39,640 --> 00:46:41,759
Speaker 1: Being very careful with that. Matt, I admire you.

776
00:46:41,760 --> 00:46:45,640
Speaker 2: Right, but no, but come on, that's that's all we've proven, right,

777
00:46:45,840 --> 00:46:47,799
Speaker 2: or at least that's all the FBI says. Right.

778
00:46:48,000 --> 00:46:52,240
Speaker 1: There are other alleged activities, other allegations. This same group,

779
00:46:52,320 --> 00:46:55,560
Speaker 1: the Seventh Floor Group, or quote unquote shadow government, has

780
00:46:55,600 --> 00:47:01,680
Speaker 1: been accused of censoring official reports, of interfering with special investigations,

781
00:47:02,000 --> 00:47:08,000
Speaker 1: of providing diplomatic security or protection for certain individuals, shielding

782
00:47:08,040 --> 00:47:13,200
Speaker 1: them from criminal charges, and a lot of that stuff.

783
00:47:13,239 --> 00:47:17,000
Speaker 1: Once you get into the providing protection and diplomatic security

784
00:47:17,000 --> 00:47:20,680
Speaker 1: and stuff for controversial people, often those are going to

785
00:47:20,719 --> 00:47:22,239
Speaker 1: come from biased sources.

786
00:47:22,320 --> 00:47:26,839
Speaker 2: Correct. See the Washington Examiner. If you wish, you can

787
00:47:26,880 --> 00:47:31,040
Speaker 2: find something on that. And if you search for Hillary's

788
00:47:31,080 --> 00:47:34,960
Speaker 2: officials cut criticisms out of State Department reports, you will

789
00:47:34,960 --> 00:47:37,359
Speaker 2: find it and you can read all about it.

790
00:47:39,719 --> 00:47:42,399
Speaker 1: You can also while you're reading those reports, you can

791
00:47:42,440 --> 00:47:45,600
Speaker 1: go back to what we have kept going back to,

792
00:47:46,360 --> 00:47:50,560
Speaker 1: which is the FBI confirming at least maybe not saying

793
00:47:50,560 --> 00:47:53,160
Speaker 1: that they believe this exists, but confirming that they spoke

794
00:47:53,239 --> 00:47:55,480
Speaker 1: with people who did think it exists.

795
00:47:55,520 --> 00:47:58,920
Speaker 2: He who casually mentioned that it's the seventh Floor Group. No,

796
00:47:59,080 --> 00:48:04,239
Speaker 2: it's the Shadow, It's fine, it's fine. What is the

797
00:48:04,280 --> 00:48:07,399
Speaker 2: Irish now? I don't know what happened. That's what they're

798
00:48:07,440 --> 00:48:07,959
Speaker 2: talking about.

799
00:48:08,120 --> 00:48:11,399
Speaker 1: So this is this is not quite where it ends.

800
00:48:11,480 --> 00:48:13,040
Speaker 1: But we do have some conclusions.

801
00:48:13,080 --> 00:48:18,760
Speaker 2: First, Gusifer, are you speaking directly to Gusifer Gucchifer.

802
00:48:20,239 --> 00:48:22,600
Speaker 1: Maybe maybe if you tune into the podcast, we'd love

803
00:48:22,640 --> 00:48:24,920
Speaker 1: to hear from you. According to The New York Times,

804
00:48:24,920 --> 00:48:31,760
Speaker 1: the hacker who used this name Guccifer, coined the Moniker

805
00:48:31,840 --> 00:48:34,759
Speaker 1: to combine the style of Gucci in the light of Lucifer.

806
00:48:34,960 --> 00:48:38,400
Speaker 1: He turned out to be a guide named marcel lejal Lazare,

807
00:48:38,840 --> 00:48:42,759
Speaker 1: a forty three year old former taxi driver is at

808
00:48:42,800 --> 00:48:46,400
Speaker 1: the time unemployed. He did not have expertise in computers.

809
00:48:46,440 --> 00:48:49,520
Speaker 1: He didn't have any fancy equipment or tech. He just

810
00:48:49,600 --> 00:48:54,399
Speaker 1: had an old Samsung cell phone and ANNC desktop and

811
00:48:54,520 --> 00:48:57,279
Speaker 1: all the skills he used in hacking. According to the

812
00:48:57,280 --> 00:49:01,480
Speaker 1: official reports, he picked up on the web. So he

813
00:49:01,840 --> 00:49:05,320
Speaker 1: was not, as far as we know, some high level

814
00:49:05,360 --> 00:49:06,440
Speaker 1: secret state actor.

815
00:49:06,960 --> 00:49:09,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, according to the official sources.

816
00:49:10,000 --> 00:49:14,040
Speaker 1: Well he's not a botnet king or whatever. But most

817
00:49:14,080 --> 00:49:18,040
Speaker 1: of the emails providing the impetus for that second investigation

818
00:49:18,160 --> 00:49:20,279
Speaker 1: turned out to be duplicates of stuff they found the

819
00:49:20,280 --> 00:49:23,439
Speaker 1: first time around, So in that second investigation there wasn't

820
00:49:23,560 --> 00:49:27,240
Speaker 1: apparently that much new stuff. And that lends a little

821
00:49:27,239 --> 00:49:30,239
Speaker 1: bit of credence to that October surprise theory, because again,

822
00:49:30,320 --> 00:49:33,319
Speaker 1: the timing, you couldn't have planned it better, right, But

823
00:49:33,440 --> 00:49:37,480
Speaker 1: the group appears to have been disbanded by Donald Trump's administration,

824
00:49:37,600 --> 00:49:42,360
Speaker 1: the syfamous Seventh Floor Shadow Government group. On February seventeenth,

825
00:49:42,480 --> 00:49:46,000
Speaker 1: twenty seventeen, CBS reported that much of the Seventh Floor

826
00:49:46,040 --> 00:49:49,000
Speaker 1: staff who worked for the Deputy Secretary of State for

827
00:49:49,239 --> 00:49:54,160
Speaker 1: Management and Resources these titles Man and the Counselor Offices

828
00:49:54,200 --> 00:49:57,200
Speaker 1: were told today that their services were no longer needed.

829
00:49:57,280 --> 00:49:59,440
Speaker 1: So if you can read it in other articles of

830
00:49:59,480 --> 00:50:04,320
Speaker 1: the time where the headline something like Rex Tillerson kicks

831
00:50:04,320 --> 00:50:07,400
Speaker 1: out seventh floor group or fires a bunch of diplomats,

832
00:50:07,440 --> 00:50:09,760
Speaker 1: and the State Department did encounter a purge at that time.

833
00:50:09,960 --> 00:50:14,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, but who knows if they're the the seventh floor group, right,

834
00:50:14,960 --> 00:50:18,320
Speaker 2: or maybe the people just met up on the seventh floor.

835
00:50:18,360 --> 00:50:21,960
Speaker 2: Maybe they lived on the fourth floor. Right.

836
00:50:22,760 --> 00:50:27,439
Speaker 1: It's weird because some of us listening are convinced there's

837
00:50:27,520 --> 00:50:29,480
Speaker 1: much more to the stories. Some of us listening or

838
00:50:29,600 --> 00:50:37,960
Speaker 1: convinced it's it's just media theater solely meant to discredit someone.

839
00:50:38,160 --> 00:50:38,319
Speaker 2: Right.

840
00:50:38,880 --> 00:50:41,240
Speaker 1: It was a very divisive issue then, and to a degree,

841
00:50:41,239 --> 00:50:47,600
Speaker 1: it's still a divisive issue today. But oddly enough, several

842
00:50:47,640 --> 00:50:50,840
Speaker 1: of the original media reports have been deleted.

843
00:50:51,480 --> 00:50:54,840
Speaker 2: The FBI vault files literally don't exist unless you go

844
00:50:54,880 --> 00:50:55,960
Speaker 2: to the wayback machine.

845
00:50:56,440 --> 00:51:00,480
Speaker 1: Right, But not to be too much of a devil's advocate,

846
00:51:00,520 --> 00:51:05,200
Speaker 1: but couldn't the FBI clean out the wayback machine if

847
00:51:05,239 --> 00:51:05,840
Speaker 1: they wanted to?

848
00:51:07,719 --> 00:51:09,120
Speaker 2: Maybe? I don't know if they.

849
00:51:09,280 --> 00:51:14,160
Speaker 1: The NSA could do it, probably because Gucci f could

850
00:51:14,160 --> 00:51:19,239
Speaker 1: do Uh. The Wikipedia page was also scrupped. If you

851
00:51:19,360 --> 00:51:23,920
Speaker 1: go into the talk, it's a really interesting thing about Wikipedia, uh,

852
00:51:24,360 --> 00:51:28,080
Speaker 1: which is maybe not so much the articles themselves. But

853
00:51:28,520 --> 00:51:30,760
Speaker 1: if you look at Wikipedia, you're gonna see two taps.

854
00:51:30,840 --> 00:51:32,720
Speaker 1: Let's see a tab at the top left with the article,

855
00:51:32,960 --> 00:51:34,880
Speaker 1: and a tab just to the right of that called

856
00:51:34,960 --> 00:51:39,400
Speaker 1: talk right and talk is where the editors of Wikipedia

857
00:51:39,440 --> 00:51:43,359
Speaker 1: and the contributors of Wikipedia argue about whether or not

858
00:51:43,520 --> 00:51:46,120
Speaker 1: something should be an article, or something should be included

859
00:51:46,200 --> 00:51:53,120
Speaker 1: in that article. Wikipedia is a world at war because

860
00:51:53,320 --> 00:52:03,960
Speaker 1: numerous numerous debates of geopolitical sandwiches, you know, tragedies, all

861
00:52:04,000 --> 00:52:09,440
Speaker 1: sorts of things are currently being furiously edited by one

862
00:52:09,520 --> 00:52:13,279
Speaker 1: person or another with differing views. In the case of

863
00:52:13,440 --> 00:52:17,960
Speaker 1: the Wikipedia page, from what we found, the reason given

864
00:52:18,000 --> 00:52:21,960
Speaker 1: for its deletion was that there were not multiple primary sources,

865
00:52:23,280 --> 00:52:26,239
Speaker 1: so they said, you need you need more than one

866
00:52:26,360 --> 00:52:30,440
Speaker 1: source for this to even be entertained as the truth.

867
00:52:31,520 --> 00:52:34,640
Speaker 1: But you can still find it in Matt Frederick's trusty

868
00:52:34,719 --> 00:52:37,920
Speaker 1: wayback machine. I think that's a great T shirt idea.

869
00:52:37,920 --> 00:52:40,359
Speaker 2: By the way, it's not mine, it's archive dot org.

870
00:52:42,400 --> 00:52:45,560
Speaker 1: That's true. That's true. So the FBI does appear to

871
00:52:45,600 --> 00:52:48,560
Speaker 1: confirm the existence of this group, while not confirming that

872
00:52:48,560 --> 00:52:51,920
Speaker 1: they cooperated with them. There is a real there was

873
00:52:52,080 --> 00:52:54,560
Speaker 1: a real shadow government, or at least a real group

874
00:52:54,920 --> 00:52:58,759
Speaker 1: referred to as the Shadow Government, and they apparently no

875
00:52:58,840 --> 00:53:01,640
Speaker 1: longer work for the state to apartment. But it leads

876
00:53:01,719 --> 00:53:04,000
Speaker 1: us to the end of today's episode and a question,

877
00:53:04,640 --> 00:53:05,800
Speaker 1: a disturbing question.

878
00:53:08,360 --> 00:53:11,399
Speaker 2: Even if this wasn't that big of a deal, there's

879
00:53:11,440 --> 00:53:14,759
Speaker 2: still a group of people that were not elected officials

880
00:53:15,239 --> 00:53:19,600
Speaker 2: that were hanging out in you know, someplace making decisions

881
00:53:20,040 --> 00:53:23,319
Speaker 2: about what you and I and everyone listening as the

882
00:53:23,360 --> 00:53:27,040
Speaker 2: public get to hear or know about an elected official.

883
00:53:28,320 --> 00:53:32,080
Speaker 2: How many other groups like that exist that are gatekeepers

884
00:53:32,080 --> 00:53:36,640
Speaker 2: of information for the public, that are maybe making bigger

885
00:53:36,920 --> 00:53:43,040
Speaker 2: decisions even than that, about geopolitics, about foods we eat,

886
00:53:43,480 --> 00:53:49,280
Speaker 2: about the types of polyester mixed clothing we get.

887
00:53:49,120 --> 00:53:51,080
Speaker 1: To wear, how much your dollar is worth.

888
00:53:51,680 --> 00:53:54,520
Speaker 2: Ooh, that's a big one. That's more important than the

889
00:53:54,840 --> 00:53:56,279
Speaker 2: type of clothing we get to wear.

890
00:53:56,520 --> 00:54:00,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know. These all seem pretty important, right.

891
00:54:01,000 --> 00:54:04,880
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for checking out this episode. We

892
00:54:05,480 --> 00:54:08,239
Speaker 1: know this would be a little divisive for people who

893
00:54:08,239 --> 00:54:12,040
Speaker 1: have really dug deep into this. We did give a

894
00:54:12,160 --> 00:54:15,799
Speaker 1: high level. Look, because we wanted to provide enough of

895
00:54:15,840 --> 00:54:19,319
Speaker 1: a view of the forest for us to understand what

896
00:54:19,400 --> 00:54:24,080
Speaker 1: the seventh floor group is. Yeah, why it matters. And again,

897
00:54:25,239 --> 00:54:28,080
Speaker 1: why would you why would you call yourself the shadow

898
00:54:28,160 --> 00:54:29,279
Speaker 1: government just.

899
00:54:29,280 --> 00:54:32,320
Speaker 2: Even for funzis? I don't know, that seems that seems

900
00:54:32,320 --> 00:54:32,960
Speaker 2: a little dangerous.

901
00:54:32,960 --> 00:54:34,840
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess we could do it, but everybody

902
00:54:34,880 --> 00:54:39,360
Speaker 1: would probably know that we're not We're not making moves

903
00:54:40,280 --> 00:54:43,720
Speaker 1: as representatives of Uncle Sam or a foreign power exactly.

904
00:54:43,800 --> 00:54:45,520
Speaker 2: And I would say, if you want to keep going

905
00:54:45,520 --> 00:54:49,160
Speaker 2: down this rabbit hole, a great and exciting fun thing

906
00:54:49,200 --> 00:54:51,600
Speaker 2: to do is to go to the Wikipedia page for

907
00:54:51,680 --> 00:54:54,800
Speaker 2: the Hillary Clinton email controversy and then go all the

908
00:54:54,840 --> 00:54:57,120
Speaker 2: way down to the bottom and just you know, after

909
00:54:57,200 --> 00:54:59,320
Speaker 2: looking at the talk thing and all the other stuff,

910
00:54:59,440 --> 00:55:00,959
Speaker 2: go all the way down the bottom and just start

911
00:55:01,000 --> 00:55:04,759
Speaker 2: clicking through sources down there. Cuz it's crazy just the

912
00:55:04,840 --> 00:55:09,719
Speaker 2: amount of media that was generated through this scandal, the

913
00:55:09,760 --> 00:55:14,279
Speaker 2: amount of sourcing that exists on that one Wiki page.

914
00:55:14,360 --> 00:55:18,280
Speaker 2: It's an intense slog. Good luck to you, enjoy yourself,

915
00:55:19,040 --> 00:55:21,080
Speaker 2: make sure you got a drink, and.

916
00:55:21,120 --> 00:55:24,480
Speaker 1: Let us know what other examples of shadow governments you

917
00:55:24,680 --> 00:55:28,080
Speaker 1: have found, not just here in the US, but in

918
00:55:28,280 --> 00:55:32,239
Speaker 1: other countries or in other groups of countries. Right we

919
00:55:32,320 --> 00:55:34,440
Speaker 1: want to hear those stories that you think your fellow

920
00:55:34,560 --> 00:55:38,880
Speaker 1: listeners would enjoy about what goes on behind the curtain.

921
00:55:39,200 --> 00:55:42,600
Speaker 1: You can tell and that's our classic episode for this evening.

922
00:55:42,640 --> 00:55:44,360
Speaker 1: We can't wait to hear your thoughts. We try to

923
00:55:44,400 --> 00:55:46,279
Speaker 1: be easy to find online. Find this in the handle

924
00:55:46,320 --> 00:55:49,960
Speaker 1: conspiracy Stuff, where we exist on Facebook X and YouTube

925
00:55:50,080 --> 00:55:52,600
Speaker 1: on Instagram and TikTok where Conspiracy Stuff show.

926
00:55:52,760 --> 00:55:57,520
Speaker 2: Call our number. It's one eight three three std WYTK,

927
00:55:57,880 --> 00:55:59,319
Speaker 2: leave a voicemail.

928
00:55:58,840 --> 00:56:00,879
Speaker 1: And if you have more to say, we can't wait

929
00:56:00,920 --> 00:56:03,000
Speaker 1: to hear from you at our good old fashioned email

930
00:56:03,080 --> 00:56:07,040
Speaker 1: address where we are conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.

931
00:56:07,200 --> 00:56:09,240
Speaker 2: Stuff they Don't Want You to Know is a production

932
00:56:09,360 --> 00:56:13,879
Speaker 2: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

933
00:56:13,960 --> 00:56:16,840
Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.