1 00:00:15,476 --> 00:00:21,636 Speaker 1: Pushkin Hey Happiness Lab listeners. Here in the US, Thanksgiving 2 00:00:21,636 --> 00:00:24,556 Speaker 1: season is just around the corner, and that means it's 3 00:00:24,556 --> 00:00:26,636 Speaker 1: a time of year to connect with an emotion that's 4 00:00:26,676 --> 00:00:31,196 Speaker 1: super important for feeling happier, gratitude. Many of us associate 5 00:00:31,236 --> 00:00:34,236 Speaker 1: gratitude with things like thank you cards or toasts around 6 00:00:34,276 --> 00:00:37,676 Speaker 1: the dinner table, but research shows that gratitude can also 7 00:00:37,716 --> 00:00:40,716 Speaker 1: be a powerful tool for reaching our future goals. How 8 00:00:40,716 --> 00:00:43,876 Speaker 1: can gratitude help your performance? You ask? Well To answer that, 9 00:00:44,036 --> 00:00:46,356 Speaker 1: I'm turning back to one of the episodes we did 10 00:00:46,516 --> 00:00:50,236 Speaker 1: all the way back in twenty twenty. In this throwback episode, 11 00:00:50,276 --> 00:00:53,236 Speaker 1: I talked to my friend David Desteno. David is a 12 00:00:53,236 --> 00:00:56,956 Speaker 1: professor of psychology at Northeastern University, the host of the 13 00:00:56,996 --> 00:01:00,596 Speaker 1: How God Works podcast, and the author of Emotional Success, 14 00:01:00,956 --> 00:01:05,036 Speaker 1: The Power of Gratitude, Compassion, and Pride. David's work shows 15 00:01:05,036 --> 00:01:07,836 Speaker 1: how the simple practice of gratitude might be the very 16 00:01:07,876 --> 00:01:10,756 Speaker 1: habit you need just to feel happier, but to be 17 00:01:10,836 --> 00:01:14,596 Speaker 1: nicer to your future self. I hope you enjoyed this episode, 18 00:01:14,836 --> 00:01:17,356 Speaker 1: Have a happy Thanksgiving, and here's to being a bit 19 00:01:17,396 --> 00:01:22,876 Speaker 1: more grateful most of the time. I like to think 20 00:01:22,916 --> 00:01:26,996 Speaker 1: I'm a relatively nice person. But if I'm being completely honest, 21 00:01:27,436 --> 00:01:30,036 Speaker 1: there is one person out there that I do tend 22 00:01:30,036 --> 00:01:34,076 Speaker 1: to screw over constantly. Now, mind you, I don't intend 23 00:01:34,156 --> 00:01:36,196 Speaker 1: to be a jerk to this person. I mean I 24 00:01:36,236 --> 00:01:39,076 Speaker 1: actually care about her a lot, so I'm not purposefully 25 00:01:39,116 --> 00:01:42,596 Speaker 1: out to get her, but I do inadvertently wind up 26 00:01:42,636 --> 00:01:46,676 Speaker 1: making her life a lot more difficult. I've roped her 27 00:01:46,676 --> 00:01:48,956 Speaker 1: into doing all kinds of things she didn't want to 28 00:01:48,996 --> 00:01:52,196 Speaker 1: deal with. I've cheated her out of money, I've made 29 00:01:52,236 --> 00:01:54,796 Speaker 1: her pick up the pieces whenever I miss a work deadline, 30 00:01:55,156 --> 00:01:57,596 Speaker 1: and I've even forced her to eat healthier while I 31 00:01:57,636 --> 00:02:00,396 Speaker 1: get to pick out. This poor girl winds up being 32 00:02:00,396 --> 00:02:04,116 Speaker 1: the collateral damage in nearly every bad decision I've ever made. 33 00:02:04,756 --> 00:02:08,596 Speaker 1: So who is this easy mark that person I'm constantly sabotaging. 34 00:02:09,516 --> 00:02:13,796 Speaker 1: She is future Lauri. She's me just in the future 35 00:02:14,516 --> 00:02:18,036 Speaker 1: tomorrow Lauri or next month Laurie. And let me tell 36 00:02:18,076 --> 00:02:22,036 Speaker 1: you from her perspective, right now, Laurie is a real bitch. 37 00:02:23,956 --> 00:02:26,396 Speaker 1: To be happier in twenty twenty, I need to stop 38 00:02:26,396 --> 00:02:29,836 Speaker 1: screwing over future Laurie. That's the only way I'm going 39 00:02:29,876 --> 00:02:33,516 Speaker 1: to form better habits and meet my new decade goals? 40 00:02:34,676 --> 00:02:38,116 Speaker 1: But how do I stop sabotaging my future self? What 41 00:02:38,196 --> 00:02:41,476 Speaker 1: can we all do to avoid instant gratification and take 42 00:02:41,516 --> 00:02:45,116 Speaker 1: better care of our tomorrow selves? Our lying minds give 43 00:02:45,196 --> 00:02:48,116 Speaker 1: us a quick answer to this question. We need willpower. 44 00:02:48,996 --> 00:02:51,276 Speaker 1: I bet you still have the intuition that gritting your 45 00:02:51,276 --> 00:02:54,596 Speaker 1: teeth is the way forward, but that just force yourself 46 00:02:54,676 --> 00:02:57,716 Speaker 1: kind of willpower tends to disappear as soon as times 47 00:02:57,756 --> 00:03:00,516 Speaker 1: get rough, deserting us in the very moment we need 48 00:03:00,556 --> 00:03:03,636 Speaker 1: it most. But what if I told you that science 49 00:03:03,636 --> 00:03:06,436 Speaker 1: teaches us an easier way to kick ourselves into goal mode, 50 00:03:06,836 --> 00:03:10,036 Speaker 1: one that makes delaying gratification to protect our future selves 51 00:03:10,116 --> 00:03:13,716 Speaker 1: a total breeze. Sound too good to be true, Well, 52 00:03:13,756 --> 00:03:16,636 Speaker 1: it gets even more shocking because my favorite thing about 53 00:03:16,636 --> 00:03:19,956 Speaker 1: this willpower supercharge strategy is that it doesn't just help 54 00:03:19,996 --> 00:03:22,756 Speaker 1: you achieve your future goals, it can also make you 55 00:03:22,836 --> 00:03:26,796 Speaker 1: happier in the process. So if you're ready to harness 56 00:03:26,796 --> 00:03:29,996 Speaker 1: some self control and feel better, then join me doctor 57 00:03:30,076 --> 00:03:33,076 Speaker 1: Laurie Santo's for the next installment of the Happiness Lab 58 00:03:33,276 --> 00:03:40,716 Speaker 1: twenty twenty. I wanted to learn more about this strategy 59 00:03:40,756 --> 00:03:43,236 Speaker 1: that helps you achieve your future goals and feel good. 60 00:03:43,716 --> 00:03:45,796 Speaker 1: So I dropped a line to my friend David Disteno. 61 00:03:46,516 --> 00:03:47,156 Speaker 1: Are we rolling? 62 00:03:48,196 --> 00:03:51,756 Speaker 2: Here? We go? I'm David Disteno, Professor of psychology at 63 00:03:51,836 --> 00:03:57,596 Speaker 2: Northeastern University and author of Emotional Success, The Power of Gratitude, 64 00:03:57,596 --> 00:03:58,916 Speaker 2: Compassion and Pride. 65 00:03:59,596 --> 00:04:01,156 Speaker 1: So, Dave, one of the things I love about your 66 00:04:01,196 --> 00:04:03,516 Speaker 1: book is that it really discusses in a lot of 67 00:04:03,556 --> 00:04:05,956 Speaker 1: detail the limits of willpower. I think in the book 68 00:04:05,956 --> 00:04:08,036 Speaker 1: you actually call it a candle in the wind. So 69 00:04:08,476 --> 00:04:10,316 Speaker 1: why is will power so fragile? 70 00:04:10,996 --> 00:04:13,316 Speaker 2: Well, let me give you some examples of why I 71 00:04:13,356 --> 00:04:15,836 Speaker 2: say that. So, we tend to use willpower when we're 72 00:04:15,836 --> 00:04:18,156 Speaker 2: trying to pursue a long term goal, you know, something 73 00:04:18,156 --> 00:04:20,596 Speaker 2: that has a big reward in the future, but might 74 00:04:20,636 --> 00:04:23,396 Speaker 2: be difficult in the moment or require some effort on 75 00:04:23,436 --> 00:04:25,916 Speaker 2: our part to persevere toward. You know, whether you're trying 76 00:04:25,916 --> 00:04:29,276 Speaker 2: to study to do well in school or on an exam, 77 00:04:29,596 --> 00:04:32,836 Speaker 2: exercising and eating right, saving money rather than buying the 78 00:04:32,876 --> 00:04:35,596 Speaker 2: new iPhone. And we tend to try and use willpower 79 00:04:35,636 --> 00:04:39,596 Speaker 2: to overcome our desires for more immediate gratification. And if 80 00:04:39,636 --> 00:04:42,156 Speaker 2: it's something that we consider even more important, you know, 81 00:04:42,276 --> 00:04:43,636 Speaker 2: this time of the year. We can think about New 82 00:04:43,716 --> 00:04:47,596 Speaker 2: Year's resolutions, right, eight percent of New Year's resolutions are 83 00:04:47,676 --> 00:04:50,356 Speaker 2: kept till the year's end. Twenty five percent are gone 84 00:04:50,636 --> 00:04:53,756 Speaker 2: in the first week or two of January. And so 85 00:04:54,916 --> 00:04:58,556 Speaker 2: we're doing something really wrong, right If pursuing our long 86 00:04:58,636 --> 00:05:01,036 Speaker 2: term goals we all know leads to success, yet our 87 00:05:01,236 --> 00:05:03,596 Speaker 2: failure rate is that high. And there's a lot of 88 00:05:03,636 --> 00:05:07,036 Speaker 2: reasons why willpower is weak. For most of our history 89 00:05:07,036 --> 00:05:10,356 Speaker 2: here on Earth as a human species, the future very uncertain. 90 00:05:10,756 --> 00:05:12,596 Speaker 2: I didn't know if the food I was looking at 91 00:05:12,756 --> 00:05:14,116 Speaker 2: was going to be here tomorrow. I didn't know if 92 00:05:14,116 --> 00:05:16,276 Speaker 2: I was going to be here in two months. But 93 00:05:16,396 --> 00:05:18,636 Speaker 2: now the world is a lot more certain, and it's 94 00:05:18,716 --> 00:05:22,956 Speaker 2: just that our mental calibration hasn't caught up to that certainty. 95 00:05:23,236 --> 00:05:26,116 Speaker 2: If you're always using willpower to kind of tamp down 96 00:05:26,236 --> 00:05:29,876 Speaker 2: desires for what you want in the moment, then your 97 00:05:29,916 --> 00:05:32,716 Speaker 2: body is in kind of a perpetual state of stress. 98 00:05:32,756 --> 00:05:36,436 Speaker 2: You're always trying to tamp down one desire to persevere 99 00:05:36,476 --> 00:05:39,396 Speaker 2: towards something in the long term, to not eat something 100 00:05:39,396 --> 00:05:43,436 Speaker 2: you want, but to exercise. That is a problem. Work 101 00:05:43,556 --> 00:05:46,876 Speaker 2: by Greg Miller, who's a psychologist at Northwestern University was 102 00:05:46,916 --> 00:05:49,596 Speaker 2: looking at this in terms of students in high school 103 00:05:49,676 --> 00:05:52,356 Speaker 2: and college who were studying for exams. What he found 104 00:05:52,356 --> 00:05:55,196 Speaker 2: is when you train kids in these cognitive strategies to 105 00:05:55,316 --> 00:05:59,556 Speaker 2: build willpower, to build grit, to kind of suppress their desires, 106 00:06:00,236 --> 00:06:04,836 Speaker 2: yeah they perform better, but there was actually premature aging 107 00:06:04,996 --> 00:06:07,556 Speaker 2: to their DNA because of the stress, which, if you 108 00:06:07,636 --> 00:06:11,276 Speaker 2: extrapolate out, means yeah, I'm doing better, but I'm not 109 00:06:11,316 --> 00:06:14,036 Speaker 2: going to be around as long to enjoy the fruits 110 00:06:14,036 --> 00:06:17,916 Speaker 2: of that success. But the other problem is, oftentimes we 111 00:06:17,996 --> 00:06:20,796 Speaker 2: choose not to invoke willpower in the first place because 112 00:06:20,836 --> 00:06:25,396 Speaker 2: we're really good as humans at engaging in rationalization. Right, 113 00:06:25,796 --> 00:06:28,156 Speaker 2: I deserve the extra scoop of Ben and Jerry's I've 114 00:06:28,156 --> 00:06:30,276 Speaker 2: been good this week. I deserve to spend money on 115 00:06:30,356 --> 00:06:32,516 Speaker 2: myself or whatever it might be. And if we go 116 00:06:32,636 --> 00:06:35,316 Speaker 2: that route, we're not going to engage in willpower in 117 00:06:35,316 --> 00:06:37,316 Speaker 2: the first place. We're going to give ourselves the easy 118 00:06:37,356 --> 00:06:37,716 Speaker 2: way out. 119 00:06:38,116 --> 00:06:40,396 Speaker 1: This looks pretty bad for New Year's resolutions, right, Like 120 00:06:40,396 --> 00:06:43,236 Speaker 1: this one thing we usually rely on, willpower is not 121 00:06:43,276 --> 00:06:45,756 Speaker 1: going to save us. So if not willpower, if not 122 00:06:45,796 --> 00:06:47,476 Speaker 1: pushing ourselves, you know, what can we do? 123 00:06:47,796 --> 00:06:50,636 Speaker 2: You know, economists talk about this problem as they's a 124 00:06:50,676 --> 00:06:55,156 Speaker 2: fancy term which is called intertemporal choice, which basically means 125 00:06:55,316 --> 00:06:58,556 Speaker 2: do I want an immediate gratification now or am I 126 00:06:58,756 --> 00:07:00,956 Speaker 2: willing to forego that so that I can have a 127 00:07:00,996 --> 00:07:03,436 Speaker 2: better gain in the future. And if you think about 128 00:07:03,516 --> 00:07:06,396 Speaker 2: why we as a human species have the ability for 129 00:07:06,476 --> 00:07:09,076 Speaker 2: self control, self control didn't evolve so that I could 130 00:07:09,636 --> 00:07:11,676 Speaker 2: save from my four oh one k. None of it 131 00:07:11,796 --> 00:07:15,356 Speaker 2: existed for most of our evolutionary history. What mattered for 132 00:07:15,436 --> 00:07:21,076 Speaker 2: our success was the ability to be a little bit 133 00:07:21,236 --> 00:07:25,436 Speaker 2: selfless as opposed to selfish, that is, to cooperate with others, 134 00:07:25,476 --> 00:07:28,316 Speaker 2: to be fair, to be honest, to be generous. Those 135 00:07:28,556 --> 00:07:31,916 Speaker 2: are the traits that allowed us to be good partners 136 00:07:31,916 --> 00:07:36,196 Speaker 2: and valuable partners to other people. And what underlie those 137 00:07:36,236 --> 00:07:40,716 Speaker 2: abilities are what I call moral emotions, things like gratitude, 138 00:07:40,716 --> 00:07:44,756 Speaker 2: things like compassion, things like authentic pride, not arrogance and 139 00:07:44,876 --> 00:07:49,396 Speaker 2: hubrist They tend to make us more willing to be selfless, 140 00:07:49,436 --> 00:07:53,516 Speaker 2: to cooperate with others, to engage in self sacrifice, to 141 00:07:53,596 --> 00:07:57,476 Speaker 2: be willing to tamp down our desires for immediate gratification. 142 00:07:57,876 --> 00:07:59,796 Speaker 2: And people often ask me, Laurie, you know Dave. If 143 00:07:59,796 --> 00:08:02,596 Speaker 2: I want to be a success, should I be a 144 00:08:02,676 --> 00:08:05,396 Speaker 2: nice guy or a nice woman, or should I be 145 00:08:05,636 --> 00:08:07,396 Speaker 2: kind of a selfish jerk? And by that I mean 146 00:08:07,436 --> 00:08:10,916 Speaker 2: should I cooperate and work fairly with others or should 147 00:08:10,956 --> 00:08:14,716 Speaker 2: I basically exploit others and be very self interested? And 148 00:08:14,796 --> 00:08:17,716 Speaker 2: the answer what science shows is, you know, I say, well, 149 00:08:17,716 --> 00:08:20,676 Speaker 2: what's your time frame, right, And if you want to 150 00:08:20,676 --> 00:08:22,796 Speaker 2: be a success in the short term, yeah, you can 151 00:08:22,836 --> 00:08:25,276 Speaker 2: be a jerk, you can be selfish, you can exploit others. 152 00:08:25,716 --> 00:08:29,596 Speaker 2: Individuals who are self interested to exploit other people's rise 153 00:08:29,836 --> 00:08:33,556 Speaker 2: very quickly, but over time they begin to fail because 154 00:08:33,596 --> 00:08:35,916 Speaker 2: no one wants to cooperate with them, no one wants 155 00:08:35,956 --> 00:08:39,196 Speaker 2: to work with them. And individuals who are selfless, who 156 00:08:39,316 --> 00:08:43,196 Speaker 2: have the ability to control their desires for immediate gratification 157 00:08:43,236 --> 00:08:46,276 Speaker 2: and selfish behaviors, do well in the long run. And 158 00:08:46,316 --> 00:08:48,596 Speaker 2: so a lot of what I argue in this book 159 00:08:48,636 --> 00:08:51,676 Speaker 2: and in my work is that we are not using 160 00:08:51,756 --> 00:08:55,796 Speaker 2: the emotional tools that we have in our arsenal to 161 00:08:55,876 --> 00:08:59,156 Speaker 2: help us succeed in the long run. We're relying on 162 00:08:59,196 --> 00:09:03,796 Speaker 2: these weaker tools of kind of tamping down emotional responses 163 00:09:03,996 --> 00:09:07,716 Speaker 2: via willpower that researchers shown are pretty fragile. 164 00:09:07,916 --> 00:09:09,876 Speaker 1: So let's zoom in on one of these tools. In particular. 165 00:09:09,956 --> 00:09:13,156 Speaker 1: You mentioned gratitude, Like, what is gratitude? 166 00:09:13,356 --> 00:09:16,596 Speaker 2: Yeah, so, gratitude is the emotion that we feel when 167 00:09:16,716 --> 00:09:21,756 Speaker 2: someone gives us something of value at some cost to themselves, 168 00:09:22,116 --> 00:09:25,596 Speaker 2: a present or financial assistance. It can be you know, 169 00:09:25,636 --> 00:09:27,956 Speaker 2: a shoulder to cry on. It can be someone who's 170 00:09:27,996 --> 00:09:30,596 Speaker 2: going to help us and mentor us. The important thing 171 00:09:30,636 --> 00:09:33,556 Speaker 2: about it is that we feel that the benefit that 172 00:09:33,596 --> 00:09:37,196 Speaker 2: this person is giving us we couldn't achieve very easily 173 00:09:37,236 --> 00:09:41,476 Speaker 2: on our own, and they're doing it not to help themselves, 174 00:09:41,556 --> 00:09:44,436 Speaker 2: but at some cost. And it's not a feeling of 175 00:09:44,476 --> 00:09:47,676 Speaker 2: indebtedness in the negative sense, but a feeling of this 176 00:09:47,716 --> 00:09:49,676 Speaker 2: person really helped me, and I value that and I 177 00:09:49,716 --> 00:09:52,396 Speaker 2: want to go above and beyond to pay them back. 178 00:09:52,556 --> 00:09:54,476 Speaker 2: That feeling is gratitude. 179 00:09:54,556 --> 00:09:57,356 Speaker 1: I mean, gratitude sounds awesome and it increases happiness. But 180 00:09:57,636 --> 00:09:59,796 Speaker 1: you know, at first, blush, it doesn't seem obvious that 181 00:09:59,876 --> 00:10:02,516 Speaker 1: this emotion has anything to do with willpower. You know 182 00:10:02,676 --> 00:10:05,076 Speaker 1: that feeling grateful isn't going to help me eat healthier 183 00:10:05,156 --> 00:10:06,916 Speaker 1: or get to the gym in the morning. But like 184 00:10:06,956 --> 00:10:07,836 Speaker 1: what's the connection there. 185 00:10:08,516 --> 00:10:11,996 Speaker 2: Well, the beautiful about gratitude is, and any emotion really is, 186 00:10:11,996 --> 00:10:14,356 Speaker 2: while we feel it, it kind of sets our expectation 187 00:10:14,516 --> 00:10:16,956 Speaker 2: for what we should value and what we should do next. 188 00:10:17,076 --> 00:10:19,436 Speaker 2: Why would you have an emotion that's only focused on 189 00:10:19,476 --> 00:10:23,516 Speaker 2: the past? Right If you're feeling an emotion that can't 190 00:10:23,636 --> 00:10:26,916 Speaker 2: change anything you do in the future, it's a waste 191 00:10:26,956 --> 00:10:29,396 Speaker 2: even metabolically, Why would the brain want you to waste 192 00:10:29,396 --> 00:10:32,476 Speaker 2: its time feeling something? And so I tell people gratitude 193 00:10:32,516 --> 00:10:36,156 Speaker 2: is really about the future. It makes us value long 194 00:10:36,276 --> 00:10:39,276 Speaker 2: term goals more than immediate gratification. 195 00:10:40,436 --> 00:10:42,556 Speaker 1: You may still doubt the idea that gratitude is more 196 00:10:42,596 --> 00:10:46,276 Speaker 1: powerful for protecting our future selves than good old fashioned willpower, 197 00:10:46,676 --> 00:10:49,396 Speaker 1: but there's some super cool scientific results to back it up. 198 00:10:49,636 --> 00:10:52,636 Speaker 1: Once it we'll hear about right after this break, that 199 00:10:52,676 --> 00:11:00,836 Speaker 1: happiness lab will be right back. What's the biggest obstacle 200 00:11:00,876 --> 00:11:03,596 Speaker 1: to being kinder to our future selves, to getting more 201 00:11:03,636 --> 00:11:07,436 Speaker 1: exercise and stopping procrastination and saving more money. Turns out 202 00:11:07,676 --> 00:11:10,716 Speaker 1: it's our lying minds. We tell ourselves that all we 203 00:11:10,796 --> 00:11:13,596 Speaker 1: need is a bit more willpower, that our self control 204 00:11:13,636 --> 00:11:16,836 Speaker 1: will save us. But as we've seen, when push comes 205 00:11:16,836 --> 00:11:19,836 Speaker 1: to shove our rationalizing minds will just say it's okay 206 00:11:19,836 --> 00:11:23,276 Speaker 1: to screw over our future selves just this once. But 207 00:11:23,356 --> 00:11:25,836 Speaker 1: what if we tried a different strategy. What if we 208 00:11:25,876 --> 00:11:29,196 Speaker 1: harness an emotion like gratitude, one that naturally primes us 209 00:11:29,196 --> 00:11:32,636 Speaker 1: to protect our future selves. This was exactly what researcher 210 00:11:32,716 --> 00:11:36,236 Speaker 1: David Desteno set out to test. He defies an experiment 211 00:11:36,276 --> 00:11:38,236 Speaker 1: to see whether people could be nice to their future 212 00:11:38,236 --> 00:11:40,156 Speaker 1: selves in the face of attempting reward. 213 00:11:40,996 --> 00:11:43,676 Speaker 2: So in our lab, we bring people in, we have 214 00:11:43,876 --> 00:11:46,876 Speaker 2: them answer a bunch of questions of the form would 215 00:11:46,876 --> 00:11:50,756 Speaker 2: you rather have ten dollars now or thirty dollars in 216 00:11:50,836 --> 00:11:53,076 Speaker 2: three weeks? Right? And to make it real, we tell 217 00:11:53,076 --> 00:11:54,596 Speaker 2: them we're going to pick one of your answers and 218 00:11:54,636 --> 00:11:56,436 Speaker 2: honor it. So if you said I'd rather have ten 219 00:11:56,476 --> 00:11:59,076 Speaker 2: dollars now than thirty dollars in three weeks, we gave 220 00:11:59,116 --> 00:12:00,916 Speaker 2: you ten dollars. If you said I'd rather have thirty 221 00:12:00,956 --> 00:12:02,996 Speaker 2: dollars in three weeks, We'd send you a check in 222 00:12:03,036 --> 00:12:05,556 Speaker 2: three weeks. And what we found, right, is that most 223 00:12:05,556 --> 00:12:09,116 Speaker 2: people tend to be pretty impatient. That is, they discount 224 00:12:09,276 --> 00:12:11,756 Speaker 2: the value of future rewards a lot. So for example, 225 00:12:11,756 --> 00:12:16,036 Speaker 2: our average subject said they would take seventeen dollars now 226 00:12:16,276 --> 00:12:19,636 Speaker 2: rather than one hundred dollars in a year. Another way 227 00:12:19,676 --> 00:12:21,996 Speaker 2: of saying that is, they viewed one hundred dollars in 228 00:12:22,036 --> 00:12:24,156 Speaker 2: a year is worth seventeen dollars now. And I don't 229 00:12:24,196 --> 00:12:26,396 Speaker 2: know about you or your listeners, but if you don't 230 00:12:26,436 --> 00:12:30,356 Speaker 2: need that seventeen dollars to survive right now, then passing 231 00:12:30,396 --> 00:12:32,636 Speaker 2: up an opportunity to quintuple your money given with the 232 00:12:32,676 --> 00:12:36,116 Speaker 2: banks are paying is not the greatest decision. When we 233 00:12:36,196 --> 00:12:42,076 Speaker 2: made people feel grateful right suddenly, how much they discounted 234 00:12:42,116 --> 00:12:44,476 Speaker 2: the future, how impatient they were to get that money 235 00:12:44,476 --> 00:12:48,156 Speaker 2: in their hands changed. These folks suddenly viewed one hundred 236 00:12:48,196 --> 00:12:51,396 Speaker 2: dollars in a year not as worth seventeen dollars now, 237 00:12:51,476 --> 00:12:53,356 Speaker 2: but as worth thirty dollars. So we'd have to give 238 00:12:53,396 --> 00:12:56,076 Speaker 2: them at least thirty dollars before they passed up the 239 00:12:56,116 --> 00:12:58,236 Speaker 2: opportunity for one hundred dollars in a year. And what 240 00:12:58,276 --> 00:13:01,796 Speaker 2: that means is they're discounting the value of a future 241 00:13:01,796 --> 00:13:04,836 Speaker 2: reward less. And if you take this and you extrapolate 242 00:13:04,876 --> 00:13:07,196 Speaker 2: it out to the real world to decisions that matter, 243 00:13:07,636 --> 00:13:10,596 Speaker 2: you know other people have found that people who experience 244 00:13:10,636 --> 00:13:15,636 Speaker 2: gratitude are more willing to exercise for better health, They're 245 00:13:15,636 --> 00:13:19,076 Speaker 2: more willing to save their money rather than spend it 246 00:13:19,116 --> 00:13:24,076 Speaker 2: on impulse buys. They're more willing to work harder for 247 00:13:24,436 --> 00:13:27,356 Speaker 2: long term goals. And so what we see here is 248 00:13:27,596 --> 00:13:31,396 Speaker 2: just by changing the emotional state you're in, how much 249 00:13:31,436 --> 00:13:33,596 Speaker 2: you value the future changes. 250 00:13:33,956 --> 00:13:35,796 Speaker 1: And so that raises the question of you know, how 251 00:13:35,796 --> 00:13:40,036 Speaker 1: did you, as this clever experimentalist, get people to experience gratitude? 252 00:13:40,036 --> 00:13:41,756 Speaker 1: You know, how do you make people more grateful in 253 00:13:41,796 --> 00:13:42,156 Speaker 1: the lab? 254 00:13:42,396 --> 00:13:45,036 Speaker 2: One way we do this is we have them doing 255 00:13:45,036 --> 00:13:47,756 Speaker 2: this task on the computer that's designed to be god 256 00:13:47,796 --> 00:13:48,476 Speaker 2: awful boring. 257 00:13:49,556 --> 00:13:50,676 Speaker 1: Psychologists are good at that. 258 00:13:50,836 --> 00:13:53,036 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a god awful boring tech god af a boring, 259 00:13:53,436 --> 00:13:56,516 Speaker 2: And right as they think they're about to be done, 260 00:13:56,716 --> 00:13:59,436 Speaker 2: the computer is rigged crash or to look like it 261 00:13:59,476 --> 00:14:03,436 Speaker 2: crashes on them. And then the experimenter comes in and says, oh, 262 00:14:03,556 --> 00:14:06,036 Speaker 2: I'm sorry, you're going to have to do this all 263 00:14:06,076 --> 00:14:08,556 Speaker 2: over again. Let me go get the tech. And of 264 00:14:08,596 --> 00:14:11,676 Speaker 2: course people are not happy. We have somebody else in 265 00:14:11,716 --> 00:14:14,756 Speaker 2: the lab who are our subjects. Believe is another subject 266 00:14:14,836 --> 00:14:17,276 Speaker 2: taking the study, but it's actually an actor who works 267 00:14:17,276 --> 00:14:19,716 Speaker 2: for us, and this person will get up, walk over 268 00:14:19,756 --> 00:14:22,356 Speaker 2: to them and say, oh, this is terrible. I'm pretty 269 00:14:22,356 --> 00:14:24,996 Speaker 2: good with computers. Let me see if I can help you. 270 00:14:25,596 --> 00:14:28,156 Speaker 2: And so, you know, she starts futzing with the wires 271 00:14:28,196 --> 00:14:31,476 Speaker 2: and surrepetitiously hits a key that starts a timer and 272 00:14:31,516 --> 00:14:35,116 Speaker 2: lo and behold, bang the computer comes back on. And 273 00:14:35,236 --> 00:14:38,196 Speaker 2: ninety five percent of our subjects are incredibly grateful for this. 274 00:14:38,276 --> 00:14:40,716 Speaker 2: Five percent of them think somehow they fix it themselves, 275 00:14:40,796 --> 00:14:44,236 Speaker 2: but for the most part when they get excluded, but 276 00:14:44,276 --> 00:14:46,756 Speaker 2: for the most for if people are very grateful because 277 00:14:46,796 --> 00:14:49,876 Speaker 2: they don't want to do this god awful task over again. 278 00:14:50,476 --> 00:14:52,516 Speaker 2: And then that way, what we can find is that 279 00:14:52,556 --> 00:14:55,636 Speaker 2: the people who are actually experiencing gratitude in the moment 280 00:14:56,116 --> 00:14:58,156 Speaker 2: compared to people who are feeling neutral or people who 281 00:14:58,156 --> 00:15:00,436 Speaker 2: are feeling happy. And that was important because we wanted 282 00:15:00,476 --> 00:15:03,756 Speaker 2: to show it wasn't just that you were feeling positive, 283 00:15:03,796 --> 00:15:07,116 Speaker 2: but that it was something really particular about gratitude. What 284 00:15:07,156 --> 00:15:10,676 Speaker 2: gratitude makes you do is engage in self control and 285 00:15:10,756 --> 00:15:13,996 Speaker 2: as I said, evolutionarily speaking of that, so you're willing 286 00:15:14,636 --> 00:15:16,916 Speaker 2: to be less selfish. But if you think about it, 287 00:15:17,596 --> 00:15:22,876 Speaker 2: when you feel gratitude, there's one person besides strangers or 288 00:15:22,876 --> 00:15:24,676 Speaker 2: people you meet on the street or friends who you 289 00:15:24,716 --> 00:15:27,756 Speaker 2: can help that's important to your own future goals, and 290 00:15:27,756 --> 00:15:31,036 Speaker 2: that is your own future self. And what we find 291 00:15:31,116 --> 00:15:33,836 Speaker 2: is when you're feeling grateful, yes you're willing to sacrifice 292 00:15:34,156 --> 00:15:37,356 Speaker 2: for other people, but you're also willing to sacrifice for 293 00:15:37,396 --> 00:15:39,836 Speaker 2: your own future self. And that's how you can pivot 294 00:15:40,196 --> 00:15:42,716 Speaker 2: the power of gratitude from just being this emotion that 295 00:15:42,756 --> 00:15:44,956 Speaker 2: has kind of a moral cast to do the right thing, 296 00:15:45,316 --> 00:15:48,876 Speaker 2: to repay debts or to behave morally, to actually help 297 00:15:48,916 --> 00:15:51,996 Speaker 2: your own future self achieve her or his own goals. 298 00:15:52,236 --> 00:15:53,676 Speaker 1: I wanted to talk a little bit about some of 299 00:15:53,716 --> 00:15:56,076 Speaker 1: the specific domains in which gratitude helps because I just 300 00:15:56,116 --> 00:15:58,996 Speaker 1: find these data it's totally fascinating. So in your book, 301 00:15:59,036 --> 00:16:01,716 Speaker 1: you show that gratitude doesn't just help you on financial 302 00:16:01,756 --> 00:16:04,036 Speaker 1: decision making, it can also help you, like at your job. 303 00:16:04,916 --> 00:16:06,916 Speaker 2: Yeah, it just depends what your job is. So you know, 304 00:16:06,956 --> 00:16:09,596 Speaker 2: Adam Grant has this great data where he should that 305 00:16:09,636 --> 00:16:12,396 Speaker 2: people who are working in a call center and talk 306 00:16:12,436 --> 00:16:16,356 Speaker 2: about a thankless job. You're calling people up for fundraising, 307 00:16:16,436 --> 00:16:20,196 Speaker 2: asking people to donate money When gratitude is expressed in 308 00:16:20,276 --> 00:16:25,516 Speaker 2: those offices, people's preductivity goes up fifty percent, and not 309 00:16:25,596 --> 00:16:29,836 Speaker 2: only do they work harder, but they're actually happy about it. 310 00:16:29,876 --> 00:16:33,476 Speaker 2: They feel good about it, and so there's no stress there. 311 00:16:33,716 --> 00:16:36,676 Speaker 2: When you're a doctor, right, if you're feeling gratitude, it 312 00:16:36,716 --> 00:16:39,556 Speaker 2: makes you more willing to invest the effort to do 313 00:16:39,596 --> 00:16:41,836 Speaker 2: the right thing, and so you're more willing, the data 314 00:16:41,876 --> 00:16:46,796 Speaker 2: show to engage in greater thought in terms of your diagnoses. 315 00:16:47,196 --> 00:16:49,956 Speaker 2: And so gratitude in whatever the realm is that we're 316 00:16:49,956 --> 00:16:53,356 Speaker 2: talking about. By giving you more patients, by giving you 317 00:16:53,476 --> 00:16:57,156 Speaker 2: and nudging you, is going to improve the outcome. And 318 00:16:57,236 --> 00:16:59,436 Speaker 2: while it's doing it, it's going to solve two other 319 00:16:59,476 --> 00:17:01,196 Speaker 2: problems for you. And and this is something else that 320 00:17:01,556 --> 00:17:05,356 Speaker 2: I really want to talk about, is that it does 321 00:17:05,396 --> 00:17:08,116 Speaker 2: it in a way that's better for your mind and 322 00:17:08,196 --> 00:17:11,196 Speaker 2: your body in terms of your physical health and your 323 00:17:11,236 --> 00:17:12,036 Speaker 2: mental well being. 324 00:17:12,156 --> 00:17:13,916 Speaker 1: And so talk about the mental well being part, because 325 00:17:13,956 --> 00:17:15,356 Speaker 1: one of the things we're trying to do is to 326 00:17:15,756 --> 00:17:18,396 Speaker 1: help people find strategies that can allow them to achieve 327 00:17:18,436 --> 00:17:21,196 Speaker 1: their goals, but in doing so, can make them happy 328 00:17:21,476 --> 00:17:23,956 Speaker 1: in the moment too. And that's really the amazing thing 329 00:17:23,996 --> 00:17:27,036 Speaker 1: about gratitude is it doesn't just help you exercise more 330 00:17:27,036 --> 00:17:29,356 Speaker 1: and save more. It feels good, unlike willpower. 331 00:17:29,916 --> 00:17:33,396 Speaker 2: That's right. So David Brooks likes to talk about that. 332 00:17:33,436 --> 00:17:36,836 Speaker 2: There are two types of virtues people have. Resume virtues, 333 00:17:36,876 --> 00:17:41,156 Speaker 2: which are the virtues like being dogged, working hard, having grit, 334 00:17:41,276 --> 00:17:45,476 Speaker 2: trying to get ahead, and eulogy virtues, things like being fair, 335 00:17:45,636 --> 00:17:48,996 Speaker 2: being generous, being kind. And the eulogy virtues are the 336 00:17:48,996 --> 00:17:52,396 Speaker 2: ones that ultimately we want to be remembered for. They're 337 00:17:52,396 --> 00:17:55,356 Speaker 2: the ones that draw other people to us, that give 338 00:17:55,436 --> 00:17:59,556 Speaker 2: us the relationships that help our lives. And so if 339 00:17:59,596 --> 00:18:03,636 Speaker 2: we're pursuing our own success and whatever realm it might be, 340 00:18:04,276 --> 00:18:06,556 Speaker 2: you know, as I said, for millennia, the way to 341 00:18:06,596 --> 00:18:09,916 Speaker 2: do that was to have good character, to be fair, 342 00:18:10,076 --> 00:18:12,716 Speaker 2: be generous. It used to be that you would give 343 00:18:12,756 --> 00:18:15,236 Speaker 2: virtues and resume virtues were the same, there was no 344 00:18:15,316 --> 00:18:18,156 Speaker 2: difference between them. But because of the way we structure 345 00:18:18,196 --> 00:18:21,316 Speaker 2: our lives now we can pursue success in a very 346 00:18:21,356 --> 00:18:23,516 Speaker 2: atomistic manner. That is, you know, we can just be 347 00:18:23,716 --> 00:18:27,316 Speaker 2: dogged and if we earn enough money we can meet 348 00:18:27,356 --> 00:18:29,276 Speaker 2: all of our needs. We don't have to have other 349 00:18:29,316 --> 00:18:32,876 Speaker 2: people around us as much. But that leads to a 350 00:18:32,956 --> 00:18:36,796 Speaker 2: not very fulfilling life and it's a very stressful existence. 351 00:18:37,876 --> 00:18:42,556 Speaker 2: When you choose to pursue success by cultivating emotions like gratitude, 352 00:18:43,316 --> 00:18:45,476 Speaker 2: by virtue of what you're doing, Yes, it's going to 353 00:18:45,596 --> 00:18:50,156 Speaker 2: give you the self control to pursue your goals, to 354 00:18:50,236 --> 00:18:53,396 Speaker 2: have patience, to persevere in the face of difficulty, but 355 00:18:53,436 --> 00:18:56,916 Speaker 2: it's also going to change your relationships. Right when we 356 00:18:56,956 --> 00:18:59,556 Speaker 2: feel gratitude, not only do we work harder, but we 357 00:18:59,636 --> 00:19:03,356 Speaker 2: show more appreciation to others around us. It makes us 358 00:19:03,396 --> 00:19:07,476 Speaker 2: behave more loyally, it makes us behave more compassionately toward 359 00:19:07,516 --> 00:19:12,036 Speaker 2: other people, build that social safety net that are there 360 00:19:12,076 --> 00:19:14,316 Speaker 2: to buttress us. And so you know, when you look 361 00:19:14,316 --> 00:19:16,876 Speaker 2: at a gratitude people who feel more gratitude, yes they 362 00:19:16,916 --> 00:19:19,556 Speaker 2: exercise more, Yes they save more, Yes, they get ahead 363 00:19:19,636 --> 00:19:23,756 Speaker 2: in life more, but they also sleep better at night. 364 00:19:24,276 --> 00:19:27,756 Speaker 2: They also have better blood pressure, they show less stress 365 00:19:27,796 --> 00:19:32,156 Speaker 2: reactivity than do people who don't experience gratitude more often. 366 00:19:32,596 --> 00:19:36,316 Speaker 2: They even have better cholesterol. How and why these things 367 00:19:36,356 --> 00:19:38,916 Speaker 2: are intertwined is an interesting story, you know, having to 368 00:19:38,956 --> 00:19:41,316 Speaker 2: do with the stress and do they exercise more because 369 00:19:41,316 --> 00:19:44,836 Speaker 2: of that? Gratitude, et cetera. But gratitude really is a buffer. 370 00:19:44,956 --> 00:19:48,156 Speaker 2: It helps us pursue our resume virtues and our eulogy 371 00:19:48,236 --> 00:19:49,676 Speaker 2: virtues at the same time. 372 00:19:50,236 --> 00:19:52,156 Speaker 1: What's so striking about this, though, is that I think 373 00:19:52,236 --> 00:19:55,196 Speaker 1: if you ask people, people often think those resume virtues 374 00:19:55,196 --> 00:19:57,956 Speaker 1: and eulogy virtues are in conflict, right, Like, you know, 375 00:19:58,276 --> 00:20:00,276 Speaker 1: to boost up your resume, you got to you know, 376 00:20:00,276 --> 00:20:02,836 Speaker 1: stop feeling your fellow man. And that's right, but it's 377 00:20:02,876 --> 00:20:05,196 Speaker 1: just the opposite. So so much of this podcast is 378 00:20:05,196 --> 00:20:07,716 Speaker 1: about the idea that our minds are leading us astray. Right. 379 00:20:07,836 --> 00:20:10,396 Speaker 1: We have this bad into about what gratitude is going 380 00:20:10,436 --> 00:20:12,156 Speaker 1: to do, Like it makes us weak, you know, it's 381 00:20:12,156 --> 00:20:14,076 Speaker 1: going to make us help others rather than getting out 382 00:20:14,116 --> 00:20:14,396 Speaker 1: of life. 383 00:20:14,476 --> 00:20:16,556 Speaker 2: Yeah. And part of that, right is, you know, I 384 00:20:16,596 --> 00:20:19,236 Speaker 2: think our resume and our eulogy versus we think of 385 00:20:19,276 --> 00:20:23,476 Speaker 2: them as distinct, but for most of our evolutionary history 386 00:20:23,476 --> 00:20:25,876 Speaker 2: they weren't. And we're kind of told that, you know, 387 00:20:25,916 --> 00:20:28,916 Speaker 2: the way to succeed is to be self interested, but 388 00:20:28,996 --> 00:20:32,236 Speaker 2: if you actually look at the data, it's not true. 389 00:20:32,756 --> 00:20:35,676 Speaker 2: You know, I think we're being sold a bill of goods. 390 00:20:35,716 --> 00:20:37,716 Speaker 2: You know, it is in the short term, right, the 391 00:20:37,716 --> 00:20:40,116 Speaker 2: faster way is to kind of be self interested. But 392 00:20:40,236 --> 00:20:44,676 Speaker 2: in the long run, it is people who experienced gratitude, 393 00:20:44,716 --> 00:20:49,356 Speaker 2: who experience compassion and empathy that do really, really well. 394 00:20:49,396 --> 00:20:52,236 Speaker 2: You know, my friend Bob Frank's economists at Cornell, and 395 00:20:52,276 --> 00:20:54,716 Speaker 2: he wrote this great book called Success and Luck, and 396 00:20:54,716 --> 00:20:57,996 Speaker 2: he talks about the illusion that people have that the 397 00:20:58,036 --> 00:21:01,156 Speaker 2: way that any of us succeeded was through our own 398 00:21:01,196 --> 00:21:03,636 Speaker 2: self determination. And I'm not saying that doesn't matter, of 399 00:21:03,676 --> 00:21:06,156 Speaker 2: course it does. But there's a lot of luck along 400 00:21:06,196 --> 00:21:07,836 Speaker 2: the way. And if you think about what a lot 401 00:21:07,836 --> 00:21:11,436 Speaker 2: of luck is is, it's not really luck. It's people 402 00:21:11,516 --> 00:21:14,516 Speaker 2: open in doors for us. It's people supporting us in 403 00:21:14,556 --> 00:21:17,316 Speaker 2: our hours of need and helping us out and us 404 00:21:17,356 --> 00:21:20,596 Speaker 2: doing the same for them. Right, that's what a lot 405 00:21:20,636 --> 00:21:24,156 Speaker 2: of luck is, not all. When people do that for us, 406 00:21:24,236 --> 00:21:26,996 Speaker 2: we feel gratitude. And when we feel gratitude, it makes 407 00:21:27,076 --> 00:21:29,876 Speaker 2: us not only want to pay those people back, but 408 00:21:29,956 --> 00:21:32,316 Speaker 2: to pay it forward to other people. So, for example, 409 00:21:32,356 --> 00:21:34,876 Speaker 2: in our studies that we were talking about, when we 410 00:21:34,916 --> 00:21:38,116 Speaker 2: make people feel gratitude in the lab and then they 411 00:21:38,236 --> 00:21:40,796 Speaker 2: leave the lab thinking the experiment is over, and we 412 00:21:40,876 --> 00:21:44,036 Speaker 2: have a stranger approach them who asks for help, they'll 413 00:21:44,076 --> 00:21:46,996 Speaker 2: help the stranger too. And the reason why is when 414 00:21:47,036 --> 00:21:50,276 Speaker 2: you feel gratitude, it makes you want to help someone else. 415 00:21:51,476 --> 00:21:53,956 Speaker 2: The brain is nudging you that way because in the 416 00:21:53,996 --> 00:21:57,396 Speaker 2: long term, that's a successful strategy. And so the beautiful 417 00:21:57,436 --> 00:21:59,836 Speaker 2: thing about gratitude is it makes us pay it forward 418 00:21:59,836 --> 00:22:02,636 Speaker 2: and it creates kind of an ongoing cycle. And so 419 00:22:02,716 --> 00:22:05,196 Speaker 2: I think people often feel that gratitude can be a 420 00:22:05,196 --> 00:22:09,836 Speaker 2: sign of weakness, but really gratitude is an emotion of power. 421 00:22:10,436 --> 00:22:12,836 Speaker 1: And so hopefully listeners are sold on this idea that 422 00:22:12,996 --> 00:22:15,796 Speaker 1: becoming more grateful is a good thing. But then that 423 00:22:15,916 --> 00:22:18,236 Speaker 1: raises the question how do you do that? What can 424 00:22:18,276 --> 00:22:20,676 Speaker 1: listeners do to improve their sense of gratitude. 425 00:22:21,276 --> 00:22:27,036 Speaker 2: One strategy is simply doing daily reflections, thinking for a 426 00:22:27,076 --> 00:22:29,596 Speaker 2: few minutes about what it is that you're grateful for 427 00:22:29,636 --> 00:22:32,876 Speaker 2: in life. Lots of people do gratitude diaries. The trick there, 428 00:22:32,996 --> 00:22:35,476 Speaker 2: right is we all have the two or three things 429 00:22:35,476 --> 00:22:38,316 Speaker 2: that were incredibly grateful for in our lives. But if 430 00:22:38,316 --> 00:22:40,796 Speaker 2: you think about the same things over and over again, 431 00:22:41,076 --> 00:22:43,156 Speaker 2: they're going to lose their power. You're going to habituate 432 00:22:43,196 --> 00:22:45,796 Speaker 2: to it. It's going to become boring and so think 433 00:22:45,836 --> 00:22:49,596 Speaker 2: about little things. Think about the person who gave you 434 00:22:49,636 --> 00:22:52,636 Speaker 2: their seat on the bus or the subway. Think about 435 00:22:52,676 --> 00:22:54,516 Speaker 2: the person who gave you directions, you let you get 436 00:22:54,556 --> 00:22:56,716 Speaker 2: on the highway, someone who held the door for you. 437 00:22:56,756 --> 00:22:59,036 Speaker 2: And you might say, Dave, really, is that going to work? 438 00:22:59,516 --> 00:23:02,116 Speaker 2: It does. So you know, I told you earlier about 439 00:23:02,236 --> 00:23:04,316 Speaker 2: the way we induce gratitude in our lab where we 440 00:23:04,396 --> 00:23:07,676 Speaker 2: have these these big shenanigans we go through where computers 441 00:23:07,716 --> 00:23:11,076 Speaker 2: crash on people. When we simply ask people reflect on 442 00:23:11,116 --> 00:23:13,396 Speaker 2: something in your life that you're grateful for, whether it's 443 00:23:13,396 --> 00:23:17,036 Speaker 2: something somebody did for you, your parents, a friend, the universe, 444 00:23:17,036 --> 00:23:19,396 Speaker 2: if you believe in God, God, whatever it might be. 445 00:23:19,756 --> 00:23:24,396 Speaker 2: Those simple reflections produce the same exact effects. And so 446 00:23:24,876 --> 00:23:28,196 Speaker 2: it may sound trite, but it's not. Cultivating gratitude daily 447 00:23:28,196 --> 00:23:30,876 Speaker 2: in your life. We'll do this through reflections. Another way 448 00:23:31,556 --> 00:23:34,436 Speaker 2: is to engage in something called the reciprocity ring. This 449 00:23:34,556 --> 00:23:36,556 Speaker 2: is great if you have an office and you're trying 450 00:23:36,556 --> 00:23:38,716 Speaker 2: to create a culture of gratitude, or a classroom, or 451 00:23:38,716 --> 00:23:42,036 Speaker 2: even for families at home, have everybody take a post 452 00:23:42,076 --> 00:23:44,796 Speaker 2: it note and write on the post it note something 453 00:23:44,836 --> 00:23:47,876 Speaker 2: they need help with. Then on a board, or on 454 00:23:47,916 --> 00:23:51,156 Speaker 2: the refrigerator or wherever it might be. Stick up those 455 00:23:51,196 --> 00:23:54,316 Speaker 2: post it notes in kind of a circle. Now, everybody, 456 00:23:54,356 --> 00:23:57,636 Speaker 2: take a different color post or note and write your 457 00:23:57,716 --> 00:23:59,636 Speaker 2: name on it, and go up and stick it next 458 00:23:59,676 --> 00:24:01,836 Speaker 2: to a post it note that's up there already. Where 459 00:24:01,876 --> 00:24:04,676 Speaker 2: a person's requesting helps you, you're saying, Ah, John says 460 00:24:04,676 --> 00:24:06,956 Speaker 2: he needs help with this, I dave am going to 461 00:24:07,036 --> 00:24:09,316 Speaker 2: help him with this, right, And then what you do 462 00:24:09,476 --> 00:24:12,676 Speaker 2: is draw lines or tie strings or tape whatever you 463 00:24:12,756 --> 00:24:16,396 Speaker 2: might be, and what you'll see is connections in this circle. 464 00:24:16,516 --> 00:24:19,756 Speaker 2: And then most importantly, go give that assistance that you said. 465 00:24:20,316 --> 00:24:24,676 Speaker 2: And what this does is a few things. One, it 466 00:24:24,716 --> 00:24:28,076 Speaker 2: shows that asking for help is okay and offering to 467 00:24:28,116 --> 00:24:31,796 Speaker 2: help is okay. And by you actually helping the person 468 00:24:31,836 --> 00:24:33,676 Speaker 2: who you said you were going to help, that person 469 00:24:33,716 --> 00:24:36,356 Speaker 2: feels gratitude. And what our research shows is when that 470 00:24:36,396 --> 00:24:40,276 Speaker 2: person feels gratitude, it increases the probability very dramatically that 471 00:24:40,356 --> 00:24:42,996 Speaker 2: they're just going to go and offer help to someone else. 472 00:24:43,396 --> 00:24:45,756 Speaker 2: And it's a way of creating kind of a norm 473 00:24:45,796 --> 00:24:47,836 Speaker 2: and a culture for gratitude in your family, or your 474 00:24:47,876 --> 00:24:49,236 Speaker 2: classroom or your workplace. 475 00:24:49,996 --> 00:24:51,676 Speaker 1: Have you used this in your lab or in your 476 00:24:51,676 --> 00:24:52,916 Speaker 1: own family. Yeah. 477 00:24:52,996 --> 00:24:54,996 Speaker 2: I you know, before I started doing this research, I 478 00:24:54,996 --> 00:24:58,756 Speaker 2: wouldn't say I was an ungrateful person, but I don't 479 00:24:58,756 --> 00:25:01,636 Speaker 2: think I thought a lot about gratitude in my life. 480 00:25:02,316 --> 00:25:05,836 Speaker 2: But what I realized through doing this work is that 481 00:25:06,196 --> 00:25:09,516 Speaker 2: you can curate your own emotional life. Right. Emotions don't 482 00:25:09,556 --> 00:25:14,076 Speaker 2: just happen to us. We can curate what we feel 483 00:25:14,116 --> 00:25:17,316 Speaker 2: by taking time to think about what we want to feel, 484 00:25:17,436 --> 00:25:19,836 Speaker 2: by paying attention to the people that help us as 485 00:25:19,876 --> 00:25:22,316 Speaker 2: opposed to the people that annoy us. And so what 486 00:25:22,356 --> 00:25:24,516 Speaker 2: I've begun to do in my own daily life now 487 00:25:24,756 --> 00:25:27,596 Speaker 2: is to do that is to focus on when somebody 488 00:25:27,636 --> 00:25:30,236 Speaker 2: does something for me or someone helps me, to not 489 00:25:30,276 --> 00:25:32,916 Speaker 2: say thank you and quickly move by that, but to 490 00:25:32,996 --> 00:25:35,396 Speaker 2: focus on it for a few minutes, to curate the 491 00:25:35,396 --> 00:25:37,956 Speaker 2: emotions that I feel are important and valuable in my 492 00:25:38,036 --> 00:25:41,196 Speaker 2: daily experience as opposed to the ones that aren't. And 493 00:25:41,236 --> 00:25:43,036 Speaker 2: what happens when you do that is it begins to 494 00:25:43,156 --> 00:25:45,956 Speaker 2: change the lens through which you automatically view your life, 495 00:25:46,156 --> 00:25:49,876 Speaker 2: so that suddenly gratitude isn't something that you're trying to curate, 496 00:25:49,916 --> 00:25:52,676 Speaker 2: but it becomes a lens that you pick out things 497 00:25:52,676 --> 00:25:56,276 Speaker 2: with daily in life, and I think it becomes a 498 00:25:56,356 --> 00:25:59,756 Speaker 2: habit in some ways. And the beautiful thing about gratitude 499 00:26:00,396 --> 00:26:02,476 Speaker 2: is as opposed to habits, is you know, if I 500 00:26:02,516 --> 00:26:05,116 Speaker 2: have a habit to save money that works for saving money, 501 00:26:05,156 --> 00:26:07,756 Speaker 2: if I have a habit to study that works for studying. 502 00:26:08,156 --> 00:26:11,076 Speaker 2: But if I have a habit to experience gratitude, that's 503 00:26:11,116 --> 00:26:13,676 Speaker 2: going to bleed over into making me better able to 504 00:26:13,676 --> 00:26:17,876 Speaker 2: pursue my long term goals in any realm. And I 505 00:26:17,916 --> 00:26:22,396 Speaker 2: would encourage your listeners to try and create gratitude as 506 00:26:22,396 --> 00:26:22,796 Speaker 2: a habit. 507 00:26:24,996 --> 00:26:27,596 Speaker 1: After talking to Dave and hearing about his work, I've 508 00:26:27,596 --> 00:26:30,476 Speaker 1: decided on a personal goal for this new decade. I'm 509 00:26:30,516 --> 00:26:33,996 Speaker 1: going to stop sabotaging future Laurie. I'm going to stop 510 00:26:34,036 --> 00:26:37,636 Speaker 1: assuming that will power will save me. Instead, I'm going 511 00:26:37,676 --> 00:26:40,796 Speaker 1: to harness the power of my moral emotions. I'm going 512 00:26:40,796 --> 00:26:43,836 Speaker 1: to work harder to become a bit more grateful starting now. 513 00:26:44,196 --> 00:26:47,316 Speaker 1: So here goes. I'm so grateful that Dave and so 514 00:26:47,436 --> 00:26:50,396 Speaker 1: many other scientists took time out of their busy schedules 515 00:26:50,436 --> 00:26:53,596 Speaker 1: to share these insights with us. I'm so so thankful 516 00:26:53,636 --> 00:26:56,076 Speaker 1: that we all have a fresh start with this new decade. 517 00:26:56,236 --> 00:26:58,276 Speaker 1: To make a bunch of positive changes that we want 518 00:26:58,276 --> 00:27:01,156 Speaker 1: to see in twenty twenty. And I'm so so grateful 519 00:27:01,356 --> 00:27:04,356 Speaker 1: for you. Thanks so much for listening to this podcast, 520 00:27:04,876 --> 00:27:06,796 Speaker 1: and thank you for being a part of this journey 521 00:27:07,036 --> 00:27:10,916 Speaker 1: to use science to live a little bit better. And finally, 522 00:27:11,236 --> 00:27:13,516 Speaker 1: I'd be super grateful if you joined the Future Laari 523 00:27:13,876 --> 00:27:17,276 Speaker 1: for our third bonus episode of The Happiness Lab twenty 524 00:27:17,316 --> 00:27:25,796 Speaker 1: twenty