1 00:00:08,680 --> 00:00:12,240 Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Sets podcast. 2 00:00:12,360 --> 00:00:17,320 Speaker 1: My guest today is music manager Jamie Kittman. He's responsible 3 00:00:17,480 --> 00:00:21,320 Speaker 1: for They Might Be Giants. He also looks after Mike Doughty, 4 00:00:21,760 --> 00:00:24,840 Speaker 1: and his previous history was involved with Okay Going the 5 00:00:24,960 --> 00:00:29,440 Speaker 1: violin Thems. But even more interestingly, he is the New 6 00:00:29,520 --> 00:00:35,320 Speaker 1: York bureau chief for Audimobile Magazine. Jamie, Hello, Bob Okay, 7 00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:39,120 Speaker 1: So what are you doing in l A Um actually 8 00:00:39,200 --> 00:00:42,080 Speaker 1: out here for the launch of the land Rover Defender. 9 00:00:42,600 --> 00:00:45,159 Speaker 1: Little light music business on the side, but there's a 10 00:00:45,159 --> 00:00:51,040 Speaker 1: new land Rover Defender for the first time in seventy years. Uh, 11 00:00:51,200 --> 00:00:55,360 Speaker 1: the original coming out, and uh that's kind of a 12 00:00:55,360 --> 00:00:59,640 Speaker 1: big deal. So I'm actually here covering it for Airmail, 13 00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:05,800 Speaker 1: which is the new Graden Carter Alesander Stanley UM publication. Okay, 14 00:01:05,840 --> 00:01:08,679 Speaker 1: how did you get that gig writing for them? Uh? 15 00:01:08,959 --> 00:01:11,000 Speaker 1: They called me up and asked me if I wanted 16 00:01:11,040 --> 00:01:15,199 Speaker 1: to do it, and I was like sure, Um, you know, um, 17 00:01:15,360 --> 00:01:19,800 Speaker 1: I would like to say I'm in three dying industries, uh, cars, music, 18 00:01:20,000 --> 00:01:24,800 Speaker 1: and magazine. So uh, when somebody calls generally in the 19 00:01:25,240 --> 00:01:29,440 Speaker 1: certainly in the writing realm, I'll hear them out and uh, 20 00:01:29,680 --> 00:01:33,240 Speaker 1: it's uh, it's a pretty exciting publication and so it 21 00:01:33,280 --> 00:01:35,400 Speaker 1: was kind of an honor to do it. Okay, Now, 22 00:01:35,959 --> 00:01:39,760 Speaker 1: I certainly got their first edition free over the summer. 23 00:01:40,080 --> 00:01:43,000 Speaker 1: Do you have any idea what's going on with the airmail? Airmail, 24 00:01:43,000 --> 00:01:46,240 Speaker 1: how many people are reading it, etcetera. Um. I was 25 00:01:46,360 --> 00:01:48,720 Speaker 1: talking to my editor the other day. He said that 26 00:01:48,760 --> 00:01:52,320 Speaker 1: they thought it was successful so far and that they 27 00:01:52,320 --> 00:01:55,080 Speaker 1: were still having fun. And I said, well, it's only 28 00:01:55,120 --> 00:01:56,960 Speaker 1: been out for a couple of months. I hope you're 29 00:01:56,960 --> 00:02:01,160 Speaker 1: still having fun. But he uh he he indicated was good, 30 00:02:01,200 --> 00:02:04,120 Speaker 1: But I don't really Uh, you know, it's hard to 31 00:02:04,160 --> 00:02:07,520 Speaker 1: track that the metrics on something like that, and I'm 32 00:02:07,520 --> 00:02:09,920 Speaker 1: not sure I would understand them anyway. Okay, starting with 33 00:02:09,919 --> 00:02:13,799 Speaker 1: the automobile thing, You're not only in Automobile Magazine every 34 00:02:13,840 --> 00:02:17,040 Speaker 1: issue with a column, You're occasionally in the New York 35 00:02:17,120 --> 00:02:20,800 Speaker 1: Times on the opinion page. What generates the most heat 36 00:02:20,880 --> 00:02:25,359 Speaker 1: for you? Well, I mean it depends what you mean 37 00:02:25,520 --> 00:02:28,799 Speaker 1: by heat. Um. When I wrote I think my first 38 00:02:29,120 --> 00:02:34,520 Speaker 1: automotive up ed piece was for the Times was um, 39 00:02:35,000 --> 00:02:39,960 Speaker 1: basically their first ever anti suv uh ed piece. Uh 40 00:02:40,080 --> 00:02:44,679 Speaker 1: in n So that was gosh, that's twenty four years ago, 41 00:02:45,480 --> 00:02:49,440 Speaker 1: but um, twenty five years ago. Uh that that generated 42 00:02:49,440 --> 00:02:52,280 Speaker 1: a lot of heat in the sense that suddenly I 43 00:02:52,360 --> 00:02:57,720 Speaker 1: stopped being invited to car launches by manufacturers because uh 44 00:02:57,800 --> 00:03:00,920 Speaker 1: that was in fact, they're great profidence and it just 45 00:03:01,040 --> 00:03:04,120 Speaker 1: irritated them. I can tell you a story that combined 46 00:03:04,360 --> 00:03:09,760 Speaker 1: both of cars and music around that. Uh that was 47 00:03:09,919 --> 00:03:13,280 Speaker 1: time to the uh New York Auto Show that year 48 00:03:13,800 --> 00:03:17,040 Speaker 1: and land Rover Um, who are actually my hosts on 49 00:03:17,040 --> 00:03:21,920 Speaker 1: this trip, We're launching their first ever Discovery model then 50 00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:25,240 Speaker 1: and it was so important to them that they had 51 00:03:25,400 --> 00:03:29,799 Speaker 1: hired Staying uh for it as he uh to come 52 00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:33,920 Speaker 1: to New York and he was gonna um receive a 53 00:03:34,720 --> 00:03:41,400 Speaker 1: donation for his Brazilian rainforest charity. Uh while introducing the 54 00:03:41,440 --> 00:03:44,680 Speaker 1: Discovery to the assembled media who were in town for 55 00:03:44,720 --> 00:03:46,800 Speaker 1: the New York Auto Show, but also not just the 56 00:03:46,840 --> 00:03:50,680 Speaker 1: automotive media, but the music press, which was a thing 57 00:03:50,760 --> 00:03:53,280 Speaker 1: back then and had all these people. They were going 58 00:03:53,360 --> 00:03:56,160 Speaker 1: to go to an art directed mound of dirt on 59 00:03:57,080 --> 00:03:59,160 Speaker 1: at the end of forty Street by the Hudson River, 60 00:03:59,240 --> 00:04:01,600 Speaker 1: and a Discovery was going to drive over it. Then 61 00:04:01,840 --> 00:04:04,960 Speaker 1: Staying would get the oversized check and the photo op 62 00:04:05,040 --> 00:04:07,720 Speaker 1: and all that stuff. Apparently I found this out a 63 00:04:07,800 --> 00:04:12,520 Speaker 1: year later from a uh sometimes uh freelance publicist for 64 00:04:12,600 --> 00:04:16,160 Speaker 1: land Rover. She was like, Jimmie Kentman, you made for 65 00:04:16,200 --> 00:04:19,479 Speaker 1: the most miserable day of my life. Apparently Sting woke 66 00:04:19,600 --> 00:04:23,239 Speaker 1: up that morning and read this piece in the Time 67 00:04:23,320 --> 00:04:27,400 Speaker 1: suggesting that actually SUVs weren't environmentally sound and that they 68 00:04:27,440 --> 00:04:30,479 Speaker 1: really hadn't you know, no benefit to most people and 69 00:04:30,520 --> 00:04:35,080 Speaker 1: were unnecessary and just eight more gas were more deadly 70 00:04:35,080 --> 00:04:38,640 Speaker 1: in accidents, and he woke up and he refused to 71 00:04:38,680 --> 00:04:42,839 Speaker 1: show up. So uh, the end of the story is 72 00:04:42,839 --> 00:04:45,240 Speaker 1: is that they ended up having to give his rainforest 73 00:04:45,320 --> 00:04:49,000 Speaker 1: charity eighty thous dollars instead of forty. So I feel 74 00:04:49,040 --> 00:04:52,200 Speaker 1: like I did my bit for the environment right there. Yeah, 75 00:04:52,240 --> 00:04:54,680 Speaker 1: I mean obviously, although we still need more money for 76 00:04:54,720 --> 00:04:58,880 Speaker 1: the rainforest right now. But this was that was when Jaguars, 77 00:04:59,040 --> 00:05:02,040 Speaker 1: Jaguarren land Rover are still together but owned by the Chinese. 78 00:05:02,040 --> 00:05:05,520 Speaker 1: Now right, that's no, they're owned by the Indians. Now 79 00:05:05,520 --> 00:05:08,800 Speaker 1: they're owned by Tata Motors. Can't keep straight who's owned 80 00:05:08,800 --> 00:05:10,880 Speaker 1: by the Chinese and so who's owned by Indians and 81 00:05:10,880 --> 00:05:14,440 Speaker 1: who's owned by Chinese. The well Jaguar land Rovers owned 82 00:05:14,440 --> 00:05:19,360 Speaker 1: by the Indians UH. Also the new UM electric sports 83 00:05:19,360 --> 00:05:24,560 Speaker 1: car company Pininfarina's owned by a different set of Indians, UH, 84 00:05:25,120 --> 00:05:30,120 Speaker 1: and UH the Chinese owned Volvo UH and their new 85 00:05:30,160 --> 00:05:34,280 Speaker 1: pole Star all electric brand which is just launching its 86 00:05:34,279 --> 00:05:36,960 Speaker 1: first car, the poll Star one which I drove the 87 00:05:36,960 --> 00:05:42,719 Speaker 1: other week, which is awesome. And UH. They also UM 88 00:05:42,880 --> 00:05:48,560 Speaker 1: own Lotus, the English sports car company UM, among others. 89 00:05:48,680 --> 00:05:51,320 Speaker 1: And the actually the people who make London taxis now 90 00:05:51,360 --> 00:05:55,200 Speaker 1: are owned by this same Chinese company, which is called Jelie. 91 00:05:55,320 --> 00:05:58,120 Speaker 1: And the thing about both of the Indians and the 92 00:05:58,200 --> 00:06:02,920 Speaker 1: Chinese UH the make for interesting case studies as opposed 93 00:06:02,960 --> 00:06:06,960 Speaker 1: to when American companies were buying of car companies, like 94 00:06:07,040 --> 00:06:10,680 Speaker 1: when Ford bought Volvo and Jaguar and Aston, Martin, UH 95 00:06:10,720 --> 00:06:15,760 Speaker 1: and GM, saab UM, is that the Chinese really seemed 96 00:06:15,760 --> 00:06:19,320 Speaker 1: to stand back and let the engineers who made those 97 00:06:19,360 --> 00:06:22,400 Speaker 1: companies worth buying in the first place do their job 98 00:06:22,480 --> 00:06:25,240 Speaker 1: and you know, the executives and the product planners and 99 00:06:25,279 --> 00:06:29,240 Speaker 1: things like that, whereas the Americans tend to have stuck 100 00:06:29,279 --> 00:06:32,880 Speaker 1: their fingers deeper into those companies in an effort to 101 00:06:32,920 --> 00:06:38,520 Speaker 1: realize additional savings and things like that, with sometimes uh, 102 00:06:38,880 --> 00:06:42,240 Speaker 1: negative results for the company that they bought. The the 103 00:06:42,240 --> 00:06:46,400 Speaker 1: the most egregious example being SAAB, which was bought by 104 00:06:46,480 --> 00:06:49,520 Speaker 1: General Motors, and you know what they did. They surgically 105 00:06:49,520 --> 00:06:54,200 Speaker 1: removed its brain. And you know, they sold a Chevy 106 00:06:54,240 --> 00:06:57,520 Speaker 1: Trailblazer as a sub and it was, you know, an 107 00:06:57,520 --> 00:07:02,400 Speaker 1: affront to everything that SAB ever stood for Now at 108 00:07:02,400 --> 00:07:04,440 Speaker 1: the same time, I know you happen to have that 109 00:07:04,960 --> 00:07:10,280 Speaker 1: SABERU the well that was you know, at least that 110 00:07:10,440 --> 00:07:13,440 Speaker 1: was closer to what a SAB had sub you know, 111 00:07:13,680 --> 00:07:16,120 Speaker 1: not been going bankrupt, what they would have been making, 112 00:07:16,440 --> 00:07:22,040 Speaker 1: whereas the the Chevy Trailblazer SAB was just an abbommination. Okay, 113 00:07:22,080 --> 00:07:23,960 Speaker 1: I says, I don't need to vend defend my car. 114 00:07:24,400 --> 00:07:26,440 Speaker 1: You know. Interestingly, I just taken to the sub rue 115 00:07:26,480 --> 00:07:30,080 Speaker 1: place to be serviced. Well there there is no place exactly. 116 00:07:30,720 --> 00:07:33,239 Speaker 1: But uh, I have a friend who owned two sobs 117 00:07:33,240 --> 00:07:35,880 Speaker 1: and ran into that trouble, said he's never gonna buy Okay, 118 00:07:35,880 --> 00:07:38,400 Speaker 1: I talked to him about buying a Tesla threason already 119 00:07:38,400 --> 00:07:40,520 Speaker 1: bought two cars from a company that went out of business. 120 00:07:41,400 --> 00:07:43,880 Speaker 1: I'm anxious, but we'll get to Tesla. Eventually they're great 121 00:07:43,960 --> 00:07:46,720 Speaker 1: values car cars from companies that are either out of 122 00:07:46,840 --> 00:07:49,720 Speaker 1: or going out of business. I mostly specialized in those. 123 00:07:49,760 --> 00:07:52,600 Speaker 1: What I bought new cars, great deals. Okay, what have 124 00:07:52,640 --> 00:07:58,440 Speaker 1: you bought recently to you? Uh? Well, I actually I 125 00:07:58,480 --> 00:08:00,800 Speaker 1: bought a Fiat was the first car I ever bought 126 00:08:01,120 --> 00:08:04,640 Speaker 1: new car right after they had an announced going out 127 00:08:04,640 --> 00:08:09,920 Speaker 1: of business. Eight now, I said, eighty two, I bought 128 00:08:09,960 --> 00:08:14,120 Speaker 1: a Prussia and ninety two right when they went out 129 00:08:14,120 --> 00:08:18,280 Speaker 1: of business. Half rice um. I wrote a column in 130 00:08:18,400 --> 00:08:21,720 Speaker 1: ninety four or ninety late ninety three I had just 131 00:08:21,800 --> 00:08:24,400 Speaker 1: bought it Alfa Romeo, and I said, well, based on 132 00:08:24,440 --> 00:08:26,960 Speaker 1: my drag record, they're probably going to go out of business, 133 00:08:27,000 --> 00:08:30,080 Speaker 1: And six months later they did. Uh so yeah, I 134 00:08:30,120 --> 00:08:34,040 Speaker 1: mean okay, but interestingly you but you know, fix it again, Tony. 135 00:08:34,559 --> 00:08:38,560 Speaker 1: My sister had a Fiat, great car, but certainly you know, 136 00:08:38,600 --> 00:08:41,400 Speaker 1: the body ended up getting cancer. When you get one 137 00:08:41,400 --> 00:08:44,160 Speaker 1: of those cars discontinued, especially Pougeau that weren't that many 138 00:08:44,200 --> 00:08:48,280 Speaker 1: of them. How hard is it to get them serviced? Uh? 139 00:08:48,720 --> 00:08:52,040 Speaker 1: It's harder than than some other cars, but not impossible 140 00:08:52,080 --> 00:08:55,199 Speaker 1: if you're resourceful and having always been an old car 141 00:08:55,280 --> 00:09:00,679 Speaker 1: fan Um. Finding obscure parts difficult, you know, to find things. 142 00:09:00,840 --> 00:09:03,920 Speaker 1: You know, it's just been always part of my existence. 143 00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:06,400 Speaker 1: There's actually old cars that it's easier to get parts 144 00:09:06,400 --> 00:09:08,679 Speaker 1: for now than it was twenty or thirty years ago 145 00:09:08,880 --> 00:09:15,200 Speaker 1: because because they people started to reproduce uh parts that 146 00:09:15,400 --> 00:09:17,960 Speaker 1: had gone out of production. There was there was enough 147 00:09:18,000 --> 00:09:22,040 Speaker 1: of a business case for people old mgs for instance, 148 00:09:22,320 --> 00:09:25,000 Speaker 1: you know, for people to make almost every part that 149 00:09:25,480 --> 00:09:28,600 Speaker 1: was on one of those cars, so it became easier. Also, 150 00:09:29,000 --> 00:09:33,760 Speaker 1: the Chinese will make almost any part um if there's 151 00:09:33,760 --> 00:09:36,920 Speaker 1: a market for it, um and they can do it cheaply. 152 00:09:37,760 --> 00:09:41,720 Speaker 1: Uh Sadly they're often of inferior quality, but you know 153 00:09:41,880 --> 00:09:44,280 Speaker 1: they might get you back on the road, right, Okay, 154 00:09:44,280 --> 00:09:47,280 Speaker 1: So you're here for the land Rover Defender. Okay, I 155 00:09:47,320 --> 00:09:50,480 Speaker 1: remember land Rover in the seventies, front of mine had 156 00:09:50,480 --> 00:09:54,640 Speaker 1: it went all of fifty five, but it would climb anything. Okay. 157 00:09:54,840 --> 00:09:58,480 Speaker 1: Then about twenty five years ago, a little bit longer, 158 00:09:58,480 --> 00:10:01,160 Speaker 1: they came out with the range Roll. Now in l 159 00:10:01,200 --> 00:10:04,400 Speaker 1: A that's a status car and it never goes off 160 00:10:04,600 --> 00:10:07,720 Speaker 1: you know, off trail so to speak. What's your viewpoint 161 00:10:07,720 --> 00:10:11,079 Speaker 1: on all that? Well, I mean that's actually uh Rover 162 00:10:12,040 --> 00:10:16,000 Speaker 1: really pioneered that market. The range Rover actually came out 163 00:10:16,559 --> 00:10:20,200 Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty eight, uh in in sixty nine and 164 00:10:20,400 --> 00:10:23,720 Speaker 1: in the UK and Europe, just didn't get sold in America. 165 00:10:23,960 --> 00:10:26,120 Speaker 1: It was a luxury car then it was it was 166 00:10:26,559 --> 00:10:28,800 Speaker 1: it was more spartan than it is today, but it 167 00:10:28,880 --> 00:10:33,719 Speaker 1: was considered a luxury suv and um UM I had 168 00:10:33,760 --> 00:10:37,800 Speaker 1: an unusual window on that because I was born in Brooklyn, 169 00:10:37,840 --> 00:10:39,880 Speaker 1: but I grew up in Leonia, New Jersey, which was 170 00:10:39,920 --> 00:10:43,800 Speaker 1: the headquarters for British Leyland, which was the company that 171 00:10:43,920 --> 00:10:47,559 Speaker 1: owned Rover by that point, and so I saw prototypes 172 00:10:47,600 --> 00:10:49,600 Speaker 1: of those when I was a kid riding my bicycle 173 00:10:49,640 --> 00:10:52,439 Speaker 1: around in their parking lot that they had were testing 174 00:10:52,440 --> 00:10:56,720 Speaker 1: in America doing hot weather testing for um, which in 175 00:10:56,800 --> 00:10:59,440 Speaker 1: the New Jersey summer is is really believable because it 176 00:10:59,480 --> 00:11:05,200 Speaker 1: was hot. But my view of them in general is that, uh, 177 00:11:05,440 --> 00:11:10,120 Speaker 1: you know, uh, I've always liked range Rovers, but uh 178 00:11:10,200 --> 00:11:12,280 Speaker 1: I like them better when not so many people were 179 00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:16,079 Speaker 1: driving them, because there there's a certain person who really 180 00:11:16,640 --> 00:11:18,880 Speaker 1: can make good use of that and I think, you know, 181 00:11:19,400 --> 00:11:21,920 Speaker 1: reasonable efficient use of it, and then there are people 182 00:11:21,920 --> 00:11:24,960 Speaker 1: who are just mostly wasting gas and taking up too 183 00:11:25,080 --> 00:11:28,559 Speaker 1: much space. So so I'm sort of ambivalent about that. 184 00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:33,120 Speaker 1: The Defender, I mean, it really leads the more you 185 00:11:33,160 --> 00:11:35,400 Speaker 1: think about it, it leads you to to the whole 186 00:11:35,760 --> 00:11:39,760 Speaker 1: authenticity question, which is, you know what so much marketing 187 00:11:39,960 --> 00:11:43,040 Speaker 1: of everything from you know, cars and high fi systems 188 00:11:43,040 --> 00:11:48,360 Speaker 1: and bicycles and and music is about um because the 189 00:11:48,440 --> 00:11:51,040 Speaker 1: Defender was around for so long that it kind of 190 00:11:51,040 --> 00:11:54,840 Speaker 1: got a free path from everybody, myself included, because it 191 00:11:54,840 --> 00:11:57,160 Speaker 1: it just it was what it was. It was no 192 00:11:57,160 --> 00:12:01,679 Speaker 1: nonsense work vehicle, and they didn't really the funds with it, 193 00:12:01,760 --> 00:12:05,320 Speaker 1: and they weren't catering to you know, the latest uh 194 00:12:05,360 --> 00:12:09,959 Speaker 1: you know mobile phone app. In fact, it had no telematics, 195 00:12:10,320 --> 00:12:13,760 Speaker 1: no capability to deal with your phone whatsoever. Uh. And 196 00:12:13,960 --> 00:12:18,199 Speaker 1: that was that was um, you know, gave it an 197 00:12:18,200 --> 00:12:22,559 Speaker 1: incredible authenticity, which makes the launch and the new Defenders 198 00:12:22,559 --> 00:12:26,960 Speaker 1: so um interesting. You know, I haven't actually seen it 199 00:12:26,960 --> 00:12:30,480 Speaker 1: in the medal. I will tonight, but um, you know, 200 00:12:31,679 --> 00:12:34,440 Speaker 1: are they able to sustain that? Are they able to 201 00:12:34,679 --> 00:12:38,120 Speaker 1: you know, to recreate that with this new car that 202 00:12:38,280 --> 00:12:41,200 Speaker 1: is modern? You couldn't you couldn't build a car that 203 00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:45,360 Speaker 1: that was that primitive anymore. It wasn't safe enough. Um, 204 00:12:45,480 --> 00:12:49,600 Speaker 1: it didn't have the you know, facility to do things 205 00:12:49,640 --> 00:12:52,679 Speaker 1: that everybody expects of their car. Now. The downside of 206 00:12:52,720 --> 00:12:55,040 Speaker 1: the new things, which are going to be way more 207 00:12:55,080 --> 00:12:58,280 Speaker 1: electronics and exotic medals and things like that, is that 208 00:12:58,280 --> 00:13:01,640 Speaker 1: they're harder for people in the bush too to fix. 209 00:13:01,720 --> 00:13:03,720 Speaker 1: Which was always one of the things that people liked 210 00:13:03,720 --> 00:13:06,320 Speaker 1: about land robbers is that you know, you could be 211 00:13:06,440 --> 00:13:09,560 Speaker 1: in the in the in the deepest jungle in Africa 212 00:13:09,640 --> 00:13:11,959 Speaker 1: and with the you know, with this Swiss army knife, 213 00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:14,800 Speaker 1: you could get a lot of stuff fixed and repaired. 214 00:13:14,840 --> 00:13:17,959 Speaker 1: But you know, it ain't gonna be that way anymore. 215 00:13:18,040 --> 00:13:20,160 Speaker 1: And it's just okay, how long has it been since 216 00:13:20,200 --> 00:13:24,959 Speaker 1: they manufactured the original Defender Just about a year I think, like, yeah, 217 00:13:25,080 --> 00:13:28,160 Speaker 1: just a little over a year. And they did a 218 00:13:28,280 --> 00:13:31,040 Speaker 1: run out edition that was very expensive in the UK 219 00:13:31,280 --> 00:13:35,800 Speaker 1: that speculators all bought and uh many automotive journalists and 220 00:13:35,880 --> 00:13:40,160 Speaker 1: my acquaintance also bought. And how expensive expensive Well it was, Yeah, 221 00:13:40,200 --> 00:13:42,840 Speaker 1: it was getting up in the fifty thousands of dollars, 222 00:13:42,880 --> 00:13:46,319 Speaker 1: I would say, which you know, for for what's essentially 223 00:13:46,400 --> 00:13:51,000 Speaker 1: like yeah, stripped down vehicles was enough The new ones, 224 00:13:51,200 --> 00:13:54,320 Speaker 1: they will be more expensive, so that will be uh 225 00:13:54,360 --> 00:13:57,680 Speaker 1: you know, it will keep them exclusive for some time. 226 00:13:57,760 --> 00:14:00,199 Speaker 1: I think we have bought the defender of the VIA 227 00:14:00,240 --> 00:14:03,839 Speaker 1: generation in America, only there was a brief period they 228 00:14:03,840 --> 00:14:08,520 Speaker 1: stopped selling what was its predecessor in nineteen four in 229 00:14:08,559 --> 00:14:15,680 Speaker 1: America and in ninety three through you could buy it legally. 230 00:14:16,040 --> 00:14:20,360 Speaker 1: There's a massive trade in cars that are imported from overseas, 231 00:14:20,440 --> 00:14:23,080 Speaker 1: though many of them illegal, and there was in fact 232 00:14:23,280 --> 00:14:27,920 Speaker 1: a very um well publicized effort on the part of 233 00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:33,560 Speaker 1: the government too sees cars that had been fraudulently imported. 234 00:14:33,720 --> 00:14:37,240 Speaker 1: There's a twenty five year exemption on old cars that 235 00:14:37,400 --> 00:14:39,440 Speaker 1: if a car is twenty five years old, it doesn't 236 00:14:39,480 --> 00:14:42,760 Speaker 1: have to pass E p A standards and d O 237 00:14:42,840 --> 00:14:46,320 Speaker 1: T standards. And this is of course before the Trump administration, 238 00:14:46,360 --> 00:14:50,040 Speaker 1: where it doesn't matter if anything passes any standard because 239 00:14:50,360 --> 00:14:53,040 Speaker 1: they don't enforce any of the rules anymore. But uh 240 00:14:53,320 --> 00:14:55,320 Speaker 1: so you could bring in a twenty five year old 241 00:14:55,400 --> 00:14:58,560 Speaker 1: land Rover. What people did was, um they would get 242 00:14:58,560 --> 00:15:01,720 Speaker 1: a serial number off of twenty five year older older 243 00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:04,600 Speaker 1: land Rover, slap it on almost brand new one and 244 00:15:04,600 --> 00:15:08,640 Speaker 1: bring it in. So l a is is uh littered 245 00:15:08,720 --> 00:15:13,000 Speaker 1: with you know, two thousand and fifteen land Rover Defender 246 00:15:13,080 --> 00:15:17,400 Speaker 1: one tens with all the trimmings um that are probably 247 00:15:17,440 --> 00:15:21,640 Speaker 1: titled as a you know, as a or something like that. 248 00:15:21,920 --> 00:15:23,720 Speaker 1: You know, it's interesting you bring up a lot of things. 249 00:15:23,720 --> 00:15:26,360 Speaker 1: You talk about being in New Jersey and seeing the 250 00:15:26,440 --> 00:15:28,480 Speaker 1: models that are going to come out. I remember being 251 00:15:28,480 --> 00:15:31,760 Speaker 1: in the library and high school. We'd read those car magazines. 252 00:15:31,920 --> 00:15:33,760 Speaker 1: I never saw a f I grew up a never 253 00:15:33,760 --> 00:15:37,120 Speaker 1: saw a famous person, never saw one of those covered cars. 254 00:15:37,160 --> 00:15:39,920 Speaker 1: Have seen it occasionally in l A friend of mine 255 00:15:40,080 --> 00:15:44,320 Speaker 1: had the last Defender seventy four and when we lived 256 00:15:44,320 --> 00:15:46,360 Speaker 1: in Utah, because we were skiing and he wanted a 257 00:15:46,440 --> 00:15:49,280 Speaker 1: vehicle like that. He brought it in to the company 258 00:15:49,280 --> 00:15:51,120 Speaker 1: that service and they said, there's no such thing as 259 00:15:51,120 --> 00:15:53,200 Speaker 1: the seventy four. If you want to come out and 260 00:15:53,240 --> 00:15:55,840 Speaker 1: see mine, and I remember we were Mammoth Mountain in 261 00:15:55,920 --> 00:15:58,760 Speaker 1: May and there's nowhere to park. He literally parked it 262 00:15:58,920 --> 00:16:02,760 Speaker 1: on the side of a mound of snow, nearly vertical. 263 00:16:03,320 --> 00:16:05,520 Speaker 1: It's just amazing with those things could do. They they 264 00:16:05,560 --> 00:16:11,280 Speaker 1: were great. Okay, so let's let's back up. Holy Okay, 265 00:16:11,480 --> 00:16:16,520 Speaker 1: let's start with you brought the suv question in your mind, 266 00:16:17,120 --> 00:16:20,320 Speaker 1: the fact that most of these vehicles are now crossovers, 267 00:16:20,400 --> 00:16:23,720 Speaker 1: meaning that they have a cart bottom as opposed to 268 00:16:23,840 --> 00:16:27,520 Speaker 1: truck bottom, does that save them? In your eyes? It 269 00:16:27,640 --> 00:16:32,480 Speaker 1: improves them? And you know, in in fairness, they're significantly safer, 270 00:16:33,040 --> 00:16:38,560 Speaker 1: more economical, cleaner, better handling, less likely to roll over, 271 00:16:39,080 --> 00:16:43,560 Speaker 1: less likely to kill the driver. Um then and other 272 00:16:43,640 --> 00:16:47,920 Speaker 1: people than the SUVs of say the nineties were. Uh, 273 00:16:48,040 --> 00:16:51,080 Speaker 1: it doesn't entirely save them because they're still they're big, 274 00:16:51,160 --> 00:16:55,560 Speaker 1: they're bluff um, and they're tall with higher centers of gravity, 275 00:16:55,640 --> 00:16:59,960 Speaker 1: so they actually get you know, worse mileage than an 276 00:17:00,040 --> 00:17:03,600 Speaker 1: equivalent car would get or something that was lower. Um. 277 00:17:03,680 --> 00:17:06,520 Speaker 1: They don't necessarily have any more room than a car 278 00:17:06,600 --> 00:17:10,480 Speaker 1: would have. They're just jacked up higher. And it's uh, 279 00:17:10,560 --> 00:17:13,760 Speaker 1: so that's you know, that's what's negative about them. And 280 00:17:13,800 --> 00:17:15,639 Speaker 1: a lot of people will say, well, you know, in 281 00:17:15,680 --> 00:17:18,880 Speaker 1: the electric future, when you know there's these new electric 282 00:17:19,080 --> 00:17:22,280 Speaker 1: SUVs like the Mustang that was announced last night or 283 00:17:22,320 --> 00:17:26,400 Speaker 1: the Rivian that's coming that, you know, it won't really matter, um, 284 00:17:26,440 --> 00:17:29,520 Speaker 1: because you won't be using gasoline, but you will be 285 00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:32,879 Speaker 1: using more electricity to power this thing. That's too heavy, 286 00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:37,120 Speaker 1: too big, and very bluff um, so that it will 287 00:17:37,119 --> 00:17:39,640 Speaker 1: still be an issue even then that you know, why 288 00:17:39,680 --> 00:17:43,320 Speaker 1: should you be using more electricity than less electricity? If 289 00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:46,320 Speaker 1: we didn't care about that, why do we have laws 290 00:17:46,320 --> 00:17:50,880 Speaker 1: that make refrigerators more efficient and televisions and other appliances. 291 00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:55,440 Speaker 1: So um, so I'm concerned from that point. Also, Dynamically, 292 00:17:56,000 --> 00:17:59,119 Speaker 1: they're a real step down from cars, you know, dynamically 293 00:17:59,160 --> 00:18:02,000 Speaker 1: meaning how they handle, how you know, how fast you 294 00:18:02,040 --> 00:18:04,679 Speaker 1: can go around a corner, on from the old school, 295 00:18:04,720 --> 00:18:07,760 Speaker 1: which vout puts a value on, you know, how nicely 296 00:18:07,840 --> 00:18:12,560 Speaker 1: things go around corners. Uh. The SUV really was a 297 00:18:12,560 --> 00:18:16,920 Speaker 1: paradigm shift, and that's what Suddenly people stopped caring about it. 298 00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:20,040 Speaker 1: It was like the shift that I know that you've 299 00:18:20,080 --> 00:18:24,040 Speaker 1: written about often where you know, high fidelity sort of 300 00:18:24,080 --> 00:18:27,639 Speaker 1: became like what's that. You know, the whole generation of 301 00:18:27,680 --> 00:18:32,680 Speaker 1: people who had been you know, you know, their predecessors 302 00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:35,560 Speaker 1: had spent their entire lives in search of better and 303 00:18:35,600 --> 00:18:39,560 Speaker 1: better sound. Um, suddenly you know went out the window 304 00:18:39,720 --> 00:18:43,560 Speaker 1: in in in favor of miniaturization and you know, like 305 00:18:43,640 --> 00:18:47,600 Speaker 1: portability and and uh, you know, connectivity and things like that, 306 00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:51,680 Speaker 1: so that it became a you know, high fidelity became 307 00:18:51,680 --> 00:18:54,520 Speaker 1: a minority interest where it had been at least a 308 00:18:54,520 --> 00:18:58,640 Speaker 1: bigger minority. Uh. Same with handling and ride and things 309 00:18:58,680 --> 00:19:01,000 Speaker 1: like that. Then other an log in the in the 310 00:19:01,040 --> 00:19:05,200 Speaker 1: car world was the shift from uh, smaller wheels to 311 00:19:05,280 --> 00:19:09,359 Speaker 1: bigger wheels. Now everything's got twenty inch wheels and big 312 00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:14,440 Speaker 1: tires or twenty two inch wheels, and that runs against 313 00:19:14,520 --> 00:19:19,720 Speaker 1: you know, the hundred years of automotive history where engineers 314 00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:25,879 Speaker 1: and manufacturers learned and customers agreed that that all of 315 00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:31,680 Speaker 1: that extra weight and height made for a poor ride quality. 316 00:19:31,960 --> 00:19:34,880 Speaker 1: And so things got a lot bumpier than they had been. 317 00:19:34,960 --> 00:19:37,480 Speaker 1: And and you know, a hundred years of trying to 318 00:19:37,520 --> 00:19:40,359 Speaker 1: make cars ride smoothly went out the windows. Okay, so 319 00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:42,160 Speaker 1: if you see a car now almost all the cars 320 00:19:42,320 --> 00:19:46,119 Speaker 1: have these very low profile tires, what are the advantages 321 00:19:46,160 --> 00:19:51,880 Speaker 1: and disadvantages of those. Well, the advantages are are generally, uh, 322 00:19:52,480 --> 00:19:56,800 Speaker 1: more grip um because there's less flex in the side wall, 323 00:19:56,920 --> 00:20:01,520 Speaker 1: and you know, more confident handling, but mostly aesthetic beyond 324 00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:04,919 Speaker 1: that and uh and the same with the wheels. So 325 00:20:05,280 --> 00:20:08,480 Speaker 1: I remember being at the GM proving grounds and in 326 00:20:08,760 --> 00:20:14,480 Speaker 1: UH war in Michigan, and UH um, we were driving 327 00:20:14,480 --> 00:20:21,040 Speaker 1: around in a Cadillac Escalade, and um we One of 328 00:20:21,080 --> 00:20:23,320 Speaker 1: the things we were doing was driving a GM show 329 00:20:23,400 --> 00:20:26,560 Speaker 1: car from the nineteen thirties called the Wide Job, which 330 00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:30,239 Speaker 1: was a Buick and a really cool futuristic you know, 331 00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:33,439 Speaker 1: two seater that was you know, eight ft long, but 332 00:20:33,520 --> 00:20:36,639 Speaker 1: it had these tiny wheels, like thirteen inch wheels with 333 00:20:36,680 --> 00:20:40,560 Speaker 1: big balloon tires, and um, I asked the guy who 334 00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:42,679 Speaker 1: was driving me around. I was like, well, you know, like, 335 00:20:43,359 --> 00:20:46,040 Speaker 1: what was the idea with like thirteen inch wheels? Were 336 00:20:46,160 --> 00:20:49,440 Speaker 1: riding in an escalator on twenty twos? And he's like, oh, 337 00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:53,200 Speaker 1: ride quality absolutely, And I was like, well, why are 338 00:20:53,640 --> 00:20:56,800 Speaker 1: then just this Cadillac, which is supposed to ride smooth? 339 00:20:56,960 --> 00:20:59,720 Speaker 1: Why is it uh have twenty two inch wheels? And 340 00:20:59,760 --> 00:21:02,800 Speaker 1: he was like, well, uh, you know people want them. 341 00:21:02,840 --> 00:21:06,840 Speaker 1: They look cool. You know. That's it. That's all I got. Okay, 342 00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:11,240 Speaker 1: starting with handling the Cayenne and the Cayenne Turbo, the 343 00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:16,480 Speaker 1: poor show how does that handle compared to a sedan? Uh? 344 00:21:16,800 --> 00:21:20,000 Speaker 1: It Well, again, it's it's a lot. It's pretty heavy, 345 00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:21,919 Speaker 1: so it's on the heavier end of what a sedan. 346 00:21:22,080 --> 00:21:25,000 Speaker 1: My way on the on the you know, really probably 347 00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:29,119 Speaker 1: a little past that, but it also is taller. Now 348 00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:32,960 Speaker 1: that said, you know, they handle about as good as 349 00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:37,199 Speaker 1: something that weighs, you know, fifty pounds could handle, you know, 350 00:21:37,320 --> 00:21:41,440 Speaker 1: after it's been jacked up six or seven inches. But uh, 351 00:21:41,600 --> 00:21:44,679 Speaker 1: you know, compared to I mean the comparison that I 352 00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:48,439 Speaker 1: find more emotional for me is comparing it to like 353 00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:52,360 Speaker 1: a nine eleven or a Boxer, which handles great. Um, 354 00:21:52,840 --> 00:21:56,520 Speaker 1: and it's you know, it's a different thing. The brand 355 00:21:56,600 --> 00:22:01,840 Speaker 1: has has you know, fundamentally changed or at least large 356 00:22:01,880 --> 00:22:05,040 Speaker 1: parts of it. Some of my colleagues will tell you, well, 357 00:22:05,119 --> 00:22:08,120 Speaker 1: you know, they had to do that in order to 358 00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:10,439 Speaker 1: be able to steal offer things like the nine eleven 359 00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:13,800 Speaker 1: and box there. I don't I don't buy that, but 360 00:22:14,359 --> 00:22:17,240 Speaker 1: you know that's okay. I know this ridiculous point. But 361 00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:20,359 Speaker 1: on a percentage basis, what percentage of the handling of 362 00:22:20,359 --> 00:22:22,399 Speaker 1: a nine eleven would you get with a Cayenne? How 363 00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:25,600 Speaker 1: much are you losing? Oh? Uh you know, I mean 364 00:22:25,840 --> 00:22:30,040 Speaker 1: non scientifically, I would say, you know, you're losing uh 365 00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:34,320 Speaker 1: a lot, you know, I mean, you know, in terms 366 00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:36,440 Speaker 1: of like how fast you could go around the track, Yeah, 367 00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:40,080 Speaker 1: not as fast, and in find up slower, but the 368 00:22:40,280 --> 00:22:43,280 Speaker 1: joy of driving something that's lets close to the ground 369 00:22:43,359 --> 00:22:47,960 Speaker 1: and that's really it is not carrying any excess weight. 370 00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:51,080 Speaker 1: It is is substantial. I mean, you know, it's like people, 371 00:22:51,119 --> 00:22:56,200 Speaker 1: you know how you know, like if if somebody weighs 372 00:22:56,200 --> 00:22:59,080 Speaker 1: too much, you know, like it affects the way they 373 00:22:59,119 --> 00:23:02,440 Speaker 1: move around it. Okay, So is there any hope? Is 374 00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:06,359 Speaker 1: there any hole? Especially when the American manufacturers stopping making sedans, 375 00:23:06,600 --> 00:23:11,320 Speaker 1: is there any hope for the sedan in America? Well? Interestingly, UM, 376 00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:18,440 Speaker 1: the Japanese makers Onanda and Toyota and Nissan, UM, and uh, 377 00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:23,280 Speaker 1: the Korean makers haven't given up on that. And reading 378 00:23:23,359 --> 00:23:26,120 Speaker 1: in the trade press in the last six months, while 379 00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:28,239 Speaker 1: people are sort of scratching their heads, going like, well, 380 00:23:28,280 --> 00:23:32,919 Speaker 1: why haven't they followed the Americans down this rat hole? Um, 381 00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:37,360 Speaker 1: they say, well, our research tells us that UM millennials 382 00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:43,120 Speaker 1: actually are buying more UM small cars and sedans than 383 00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:48,000 Speaker 1: the SUVs, which is different than what older people are doing. 384 00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:50,560 Speaker 1: And you know, I mean I've been predicting this for 385 00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:55,320 Speaker 1: years and that that people would that it was a 386 00:23:55,359 --> 00:23:58,400 Speaker 1: fad that would go away SUVs. Of course it would 387 00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:01,080 Speaker 1: appear on the surface that I was wrong. And and 388 00:24:01,119 --> 00:24:03,639 Speaker 1: one of the reasons I started being invited back on 389 00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:06,720 Speaker 1: car launches was that nobody listened to my op ed 390 00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:13,080 Speaker 1: But um, um, the you know idiots. It's sort of 391 00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:18,520 Speaker 1: axiomatic in that in the automobiles that uh nobody wants 392 00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:21,639 Speaker 1: to drive with their parents drove. So you know, station 393 00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:24,679 Speaker 1: wagons went out in favor of mini vans because you know, 394 00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:29,760 Speaker 1: station wagons weren't cool. And then um, you know, and 395 00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:34,600 Speaker 1: then mini vans went out largely as SUVs rolled in 396 00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:38,600 Speaker 1: to take their place. So something you would think would 397 00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:42,520 Speaker 1: replace that. And I would suggest that station wagons again 398 00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:47,600 Speaker 1: still make more sense and minivans than most SUVs, being lighter, 399 00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:51,480 Speaker 1: more nimble and having just as much room and obviously 400 00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:55,760 Speaker 1: more economical in terms of of using uh, you know, 401 00:24:56,240 --> 00:25:00,280 Speaker 1: gasoline or in the future. You know, you need to 402 00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:02,720 Speaker 1: say one thing that an suv will give you. If 403 00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:06,440 Speaker 1: you're have a large piece of equipment, a surfboard, a 404 00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:10,159 Speaker 1: paddle board, skis whatever, it would be easier to transport 405 00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:13,600 Speaker 1: those in an suv. That's very few people. But right well, 406 00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:19,000 Speaker 1: I mean that's that is uh people's uh justification often 407 00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:22,159 Speaker 1: for why they buy too much car uh, you know, 408 00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:24,560 Speaker 1: And It's probably their justification why they buy too much 409 00:25:24,560 --> 00:25:27,600 Speaker 1: house and too much everything is that well, I might 410 00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:29,919 Speaker 1: need it. So people go like, well, you know, we 411 00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:32,240 Speaker 1: go up to the lake every summer. You know, it's like, 412 00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:35,440 Speaker 1: you know, for the extra thousands of dollars you're gonna 413 00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:39,080 Speaker 1: spending gasol and you could just rent a big truck 414 00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:42,280 Speaker 1: for your summer vacation. If that's true, you know, I 415 00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:47,280 Speaker 1: might have to tell things. In nineteen uh ninety nine 416 00:25:47,359 --> 00:25:50,000 Speaker 1: or two thousand, the New York Times magazine hired me 417 00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:53,040 Speaker 1: to write a story about what we're then the new 418 00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:57,920 Speaker 1: Lincoln and Cadillac pickup trucks, which the not very car 419 00:25:58,119 --> 00:26:01,560 Speaker 1: focused editors just thought was markably strange that there would 420 00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:04,280 Speaker 1: be these you know what were then, you know, primarily 421 00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:08,040 Speaker 1: car brands, although the Escalade and the Navigator had already 422 00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:10,480 Speaker 1: come out. How why they were doing this? So I 423 00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:13,919 Speaker 1: spent time in the vowels of GM and Ford talking 424 00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:17,600 Speaker 1: to marketing people, and their reasons were I mean, they 425 00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:21,920 Speaker 1: seemed remarkably frank that people didn't need these cars, but 426 00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:25,920 Speaker 1: that they had tapped into this like you know, kind 427 00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:31,200 Speaker 1: of like um deep psychology of of people, of of 428 00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:33,480 Speaker 1: why they would buy them and you know, there was 429 00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:37,080 Speaker 1: clearly something about writing higher up that makes some people 430 00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:41,560 Speaker 1: feel comfortable, notwithstanding the fact that, uh, you know, when 431 00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:44,359 Speaker 1: everybody's in a big stuv you can't see over them anyway, 432 00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:46,080 Speaker 1: you might as well be trying to look around them 433 00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:49,200 Speaker 1: or under them. Um and that you know, it's sort 434 00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:53,080 Speaker 1: of veghets and arms race, you know, like, well, you know, 435 00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:55,760 Speaker 1: if if everybody is going to be in a Lincoln Navigator, 436 00:26:55,800 --> 00:26:57,840 Speaker 1: I might as well be driving a Peter Built or 437 00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:01,960 Speaker 1: ken Worth you know, eighteen wheeler and be have the 438 00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:06,840 Speaker 1: the extra weight and height. But u um they should. 439 00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:09,920 Speaker 1: There was that, and they were happy to as you know, 440 00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:14,320 Speaker 1: what underpins their whole conversation is what why they're happy 441 00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:17,359 Speaker 1: to sell them is is that they persuaded people that 442 00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:21,360 Speaker 1: they should pay more for things that ride higher. It's 443 00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:26,080 Speaker 1: it's just a truism and the almost all marketing in 444 00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:28,199 Speaker 1: America that the higher it is, the more you can 445 00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:30,600 Speaker 1: charge for it, even if it's the same car. And 446 00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:34,359 Speaker 1: that's true with crossovers. So for instance, the four the 447 00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:38,800 Speaker 1: recently canceled forward Focus was the basis of a Ford Escape, 448 00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:42,760 Speaker 1: but a you know, really loaded up forward Focus might 449 00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:47,159 Speaker 1: have cost twenty four dollars twenty six thousand dollars. The 450 00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:50,840 Speaker 1: a loaded up escape is forty dollars and it has 451 00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:54,399 Speaker 1: about five dollars more content, you know, maybe a thousand 452 00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:57,560 Speaker 1: dollars more content. So you know, which do they want 453 00:27:57,600 --> 00:28:00,880 Speaker 1: to sell? That's that's and that they'll always go, well, 454 00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:03,080 Speaker 1: what can we do? That's what you know the people want. 455 00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:05,720 Speaker 1: But actually you didn't market any of the other things, 456 00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:09,120 Speaker 1: you didn't develop them, and you know you've persuaded people 457 00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:12,080 Speaker 1: that that's what they want. Now, there are people genuinely 458 00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:13,800 Speaker 1: who need that, and there are people who generally who 459 00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:15,720 Speaker 1: want it. But that's that's sort of the issue. But 460 00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:18,040 Speaker 1: in any case, going back to being in the battles 461 00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:24,720 Speaker 1: of Ford UM, they were talking about UM the sort 462 00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:29,160 Speaker 1: of psycho sexual dimension they want. Most of the buying decisions, 463 00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:31,600 Speaker 1: I mean, this is sort of counterintuitive, but most of 464 00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:36,200 Speaker 1: the buying decisions were UM made by women, a majority 465 00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:40,360 Speaker 1: of them in car purchases. And they said that women 466 00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:45,760 Speaker 1: in particular found UM minivans really de sexualizing because you know, 467 00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:48,440 Speaker 1: you saw a mom at a traffic light, you know, 468 00:28:49,160 --> 00:28:50,840 Speaker 1: you could see her kids in the back, and you 469 00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:53,320 Speaker 1: just knew that you know, she did she did not 470 00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:56,200 Speaker 1: want to party with you and um and that was 471 00:28:56,480 --> 00:28:59,120 Speaker 1: you know, upsetting to women. Um that you know, like 472 00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:01,480 Speaker 1: nobody would eve and give them a second look. Not 473 00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:04,240 Speaker 1: that they wanted to necessarily party with people, but that 474 00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:07,920 Speaker 1: that was that that was upsetting to them. So with 475 00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:11,120 Speaker 1: suv s, you were high up, people couldn't necessarily see 476 00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:13,520 Speaker 1: what was back and they they started smoking out all 477 00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:16,160 Speaker 1: the rear windows so you couldn't see the the the 478 00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:19,040 Speaker 1: rug rats in the bag bouncing up and down, and 479 00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:23,080 Speaker 1: that that made the women feel more powerful as well 480 00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:25,240 Speaker 1: as safer and things like that. So that was a 481 00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:28,520 Speaker 1: surprise to me, and it raised the related question of 482 00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:34,240 Speaker 1: why um um Ford was calling their new line of 483 00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:38,280 Speaker 1: engines then the power Stroke. And I was like, They're like, 484 00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:40,880 Speaker 1: you know, yep, And I was like, I was like, 485 00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:42,719 Speaker 1: well that sounds kind of dirty to me, and they 486 00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:46,800 Speaker 1: were like yep, you know. So uh that you know, 487 00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:50,240 Speaker 1: so that they'll you know, they'll sto pretty low to 488 00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:59,040 Speaker 1: to close the sale. So someone comes to you today, 489 00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:02,280 Speaker 1: what are you tell them to buy? Well, I kind 490 00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:04,680 Speaker 1: of asked them what they need. I mean often I'd 491 00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:06,720 Speaker 1: say eight percent of the people come to me already 492 00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:10,360 Speaker 1: have made up their mind and asking because they want 493 00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:16,200 Speaker 1: to be have affirmation. But usually, well that's the thing. 494 00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:19,960 Speaker 1: They Often they'll go, oh, you know, I'm I'm calling 495 00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:21,760 Speaker 1: to ask you what I should buy. But this has 496 00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:25,080 Speaker 1: happened a lot in in the nineties. They'd go, uh, 497 00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:29,840 Speaker 1: you know, I'm I know you're gonna think this is 498 00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:32,160 Speaker 1: a bad idea, but I just bought or I just 499 00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:35,080 Speaker 1: I really want to buy a Ford Excursion or you know, 500 00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:40,520 Speaker 1: some behemoth and uh. I was like, well, uh okay, 501 00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:42,800 Speaker 1: and they're like, uh, you know, I just it's like, 502 00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:44,560 Speaker 1: I have two kids. What am I supposed to do? 503 00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:47,280 Speaker 1: You know? And I got like, well, I remember when 504 00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:49,440 Speaker 1: I was a kid and people would have four kids 505 00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:51,640 Speaker 1: in the back of their BW beatle and you know 506 00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:56,040 Speaker 1: they managed to survive. Um, and they're just kind of 507 00:30:56,120 --> 00:30:59,920 Speaker 1: sign off quickly, like conversation over but piece of people. 508 00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:04,160 Speaker 1: You know, they pretty much uh, you know, based on 509 00:31:04,360 --> 00:31:08,000 Speaker 1: whatever you know, uh mixture of Okay, if someone comes 510 00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:10,400 Speaker 1: to you today, let's just super for the sake of discussion, 511 00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:12,640 Speaker 1: they want to buy a new car. Let's assume they're 512 00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:16,440 Speaker 1: not predetermined. What would you recommend. Well, I mean for 513 00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:19,520 Speaker 1: just an ordinary person, I think Sedayana or a wagon 514 00:31:19,560 --> 00:31:23,280 Speaker 1: would uh there. You know. The great thing about today 515 00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:27,000 Speaker 1: is almost nothing is terrible anymore. I mean the days 516 00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:29,280 Speaker 1: which aren't that far off where you could buy a 517 00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:31,560 Speaker 1: car you just go, this is appalling. I mean there 518 00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:34,040 Speaker 1: are still some Jeeps that I would say, we're appalling, 519 00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:37,400 Speaker 1: but not as bad as they were. But uh so, really, 520 00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:41,440 Speaker 1: any brand is okay. And if you um, you know, 521 00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:43,640 Speaker 1: truly depends how much money you want to spend. But 522 00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:47,160 Speaker 1: you know, uh, the Koreans are you know, shockingly good 523 00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:51,240 Speaker 1: now and even there in the luxury realm they're cheaper, 524 00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:55,200 Speaker 1: but you know, more or less as good as anything German, 525 00:31:55,360 --> 00:31:58,760 Speaker 1: and probably more reliable. I like all the German brands 526 00:31:58,760 --> 00:32:02,240 Speaker 1: swell um and uh you know, and there are good 527 00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:07,000 Speaker 1: American cars too, although you know, fewer and further between. Well. 528 00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:11,280 Speaker 1: I liked the focus, the late focus up like hot 529 00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:14,479 Speaker 1: rotted version of they did. It was that focus st 530 00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:17,720 Speaker 1: that was great. Uh. And there was even better Fiesta, 531 00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:22,440 Speaker 1: which was uh uh you know, very quick, and they 532 00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:25,120 Speaker 1: killed that as well, so you know, And and the 533 00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:27,480 Speaker 1: irony is is that they talk about, you know, trying 534 00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:31,040 Speaker 1: to stay with the young people. I mean young people, 535 00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:33,600 Speaker 1: you know, like the drifters who were out like, you know, 536 00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:36,480 Speaker 1: racing their cars at night. You know what used to 537 00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:40,480 Speaker 1: be the hot rotters of another generation. You know, they're 538 00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:44,720 Speaker 1: not in um Ford edges. You know, they're driving Civics 539 00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:49,720 Speaker 1: and Corollas and you know Nissan Sedans and things like 540 00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:54,240 Speaker 1: that that that uh, that handled, and so people sort 541 00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:56,920 Speaker 1: of forget now that uh somebody was just saying this 542 00:32:57,200 --> 00:32:59,880 Speaker 1: last night. Uh, but the people who were, you know, 543 00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:02,920 Speaker 1: of the hot rudders, it was not a majority thing. 544 00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:06,440 Speaker 1: So there's there's this uh kind of notion about in 545 00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:08,720 Speaker 1: the land these days that kids just don't care about 546 00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:11,840 Speaker 1: cars anymore. They don't care about you know, a lot 547 00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:14,600 Speaker 1: of stuff that you know, the old timers cared about. 548 00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:18,400 Speaker 1: And my experience going around is that there's actually is 549 00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:21,480 Speaker 1: still a lot of interest among young people and they're 550 00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:24,480 Speaker 1: really into it and they know stuff. You know, I 551 00:33:24,520 --> 00:33:27,520 Speaker 1: think there's a segment, but pole to say it, when 552 00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:30,160 Speaker 1: we grew up sixteen, getting your license that was like 553 00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:32,520 Speaker 1: the number one thing. And there are I know a 554 00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:35,320 Speaker 1: lot of people who have children who certainly didn't get 555 00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:37,360 Speaker 1: their license at sixteen, and some of them don't even 556 00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:42,640 Speaker 1: have it at age. My own son amusingly um my 557 00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:46,760 Speaker 1: eldest son didn't even go to get a driver's license 558 00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:50,880 Speaker 1: until like eight or ten months after he was allowed to. 559 00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:53,840 Speaker 1: My recollection is that I went three days before my 560 00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:57,120 Speaker 1: seventeenth birthday in New Jersey just in case they changed 561 00:33:57,200 --> 00:33:59,640 Speaker 1: the law, you know, and I could drive earlier. And 562 00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:02,720 Speaker 1: of I was driving before then anyway. Uh. And he he, 563 00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:05,520 Speaker 1: he used to tell me, like, you know, we'd be 564 00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:07,600 Speaker 1: driving down the road and Heed point to like some 565 00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:12,799 Speaker 1: Mitsubishi Lancer or some you know, phenomenally dull Sadan. He'd 566 00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:14,719 Speaker 1: go that that would be fine for me if I 567 00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:16,799 Speaker 1: ever had a car, But I don't. I don't want 568 00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:20,600 Speaker 1: a car. Well, long story short. He's now he finished 569 00:34:20,680 --> 00:34:23,319 Speaker 1: university and he somewhere along the way he became an 570 00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:27,400 Speaker 1: insane car not and he rebuilt an Alfa Romeo. And 571 00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:32,200 Speaker 1: now he's actually apprentice to North America's leading rebuilder of 572 00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:36,360 Speaker 1: SU carburetors, which are the British carburetors that were current 573 00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:40,799 Speaker 1: from nineteen oh four to seven, same fundamental design and UH, 574 00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:44,719 Speaker 1: which were on every Jaguar and MG and Triumph that 575 00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:47,520 Speaker 1: there ever was pretty much and UH in those days, 576 00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:52,239 Speaker 1: and so UH through him. But elsewhere I I do 577 00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:54,520 Speaker 1: meet young people who are into it, and well, certainly, 578 00:34:54,600 --> 00:34:56,520 Speaker 1: we live in a country of three hundred plus million. 579 00:34:56,719 --> 00:35:02,880 Speaker 1: Let's go specifically brand by brand, sure, Audie, Okay, forget 580 00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:07,440 Speaker 1: in terms of handling other than they're one that's essentially Lamborghini. Uh, 581 00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:09,920 Speaker 1: the R S four, I believe it is. How good 582 00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:12,759 Speaker 1: is an Audi compared to a Mercedes? But you're thinking 583 00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:15,759 Speaker 1: of the right, That's what I meant. But how good 584 00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:19,200 Speaker 1: is the Audi compared to the BMW compared to the Mercedes? 585 00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:24,360 Speaker 1: Ben It's uh in uh, my current rankings have changed. 586 00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:30,760 Speaker 1: There was a time where BMW was unassailably the driver's 587 00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:34,200 Speaker 1: car of the three of those brands. Um and um, 588 00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:39,160 Speaker 1: that's changed. Um. They you know, the famous tagline was 589 00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:42,840 Speaker 1: BMW S for the Ultimate Driving Machines. I'd like to 590 00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:46,799 Speaker 1: call them the pen ultimate driving machine now because they 591 00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:50,080 Speaker 1: really have taken their eye off the ball. It's just 592 00:35:50,239 --> 00:35:52,600 Speaker 1: not you know, Well, let's go back to BMW, who 593 00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:56,319 Speaker 1: is number one? Well right now I would say, i'm 594 00:35:56,600 --> 00:35:58,880 Speaker 1: i'm I feel like it's fairly closed, but I might 595 00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:02,239 Speaker 1: give Mercedes the odd uh as being the one I 596 00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:04,120 Speaker 1: would most like to own. But I just had an 597 00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:06,680 Speaker 1: A seven last week in New York and was driving 598 00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:09,680 Speaker 1: on the highway from some distance and it was pretty great. 599 00:36:09,760 --> 00:36:14,080 Speaker 1: Audis are pretty great. Uh and uh, you know they're 600 00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:18,319 Speaker 1: all fine, and they all make SUVs that I despise, um, 601 00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:22,520 Speaker 1: but their cars, which are you know, what the TVs 602 00:36:22,520 --> 00:36:25,600 Speaker 1: are based on, are are are better than they were. 603 00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:30,239 Speaker 1: Mostly BMW has taken its eye off of of that 604 00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:33,800 Speaker 1: last degree of excellence. Let's just grown so much that 605 00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:39,760 Speaker 1: they're really uh there. I mean, Volkswagen group that depends 606 00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:44,000 Speaker 1: in great measure on Autis being successful because they're essentially 607 00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:48,360 Speaker 1: you know, good volkswagens um that have been upscaled a 608 00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:50,799 Speaker 1: lot and and they charged a lot more money for them, 609 00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:53,279 Speaker 1: so it's a huge profit center for them. You know, 610 00:36:54,120 --> 00:36:57,520 Speaker 1: it's estimated that Volkswagen bakes barely any profit for for 611 00:36:58,080 --> 00:37:01,239 Speaker 1: the Volkswagen group. Autie makes you know, the lions share 612 00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:03,800 Speaker 1: of it. And then they also owned Porsche, which is 613 00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:08,279 Speaker 1: hugely profitable, and Lamborghini and Bentley, and so that those 614 00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:13,640 Speaker 1: companies are generating most of the profit. Uh. They because 615 00:37:13,680 --> 00:37:17,160 Speaker 1: of that. This is particularly true now with BMWC. They 616 00:37:17,239 --> 00:37:19,799 Speaker 1: need more more and more volume of stuff and they 617 00:37:19,840 --> 00:37:22,200 Speaker 1: want to sell stuff that's more expensive, so they have 618 00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:26,520 Speaker 1: you know, massive amounts of of Uh. They have huge 619 00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:30,239 Speaker 1: product lines. Um. And they're making lots and lots of 620 00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:33,960 Speaker 1: bigger and bigger SUVs, which is exactly the wrong direction 621 00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:36,960 Speaker 1: they know on some level for them to be going 622 00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:40,200 Speaker 1: in in terms of the environment and and the mandates 623 00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:43,280 Speaker 1: that you know, bud for Trump are coming down everywhere 624 00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:47,920 Speaker 1: in the world. Um and um. So there seems to 625 00:37:47,960 --> 00:37:50,720 Speaker 1: be a notion of foot at all the car companies 626 00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:52,640 Speaker 1: now that we've got to make as much money as 627 00:37:52,680 --> 00:37:56,920 Speaker 1: we can to get ready for this transition to electric cars. Okay, 628 00:37:57,200 --> 00:37:59,719 Speaker 1: so BMW, because as you say, they have an incredibly 629 00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:06,160 Speaker 1: wide line forgetting the SUVs, the standard Sedan's your bitch 630 00:38:06,239 --> 00:38:09,240 Speaker 1: with them is uh, they're they've gotten bigger and bigger 631 00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:12,719 Speaker 1: and bigger as so you know, they're less dynamically, um 632 00:38:13,560 --> 00:38:15,720 Speaker 1: amusing to me than they were. But so I would 633 00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:17,640 Speaker 1: if I was gonna buy a BMW, I'd get a 634 00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:22,160 Speaker 1: three series, which was the you know, the smartest one, 635 00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:25,239 Speaker 1: which is now the size. It's bigger than the old 636 00:38:25,320 --> 00:38:28,280 Speaker 1: five series. So they get bigger and bigger and bigger. 637 00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:32,840 Speaker 1: And the station wagon model is very handsome. Uh. Auties Uh, 638 00:38:33,239 --> 00:38:37,279 Speaker 1: starting with BMW, do they not? Because BMW every all 639 00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:39,920 Speaker 1: the car magazine seemed to say that the M two 640 00:38:40,080 --> 00:38:43,560 Speaker 1: was like the ultimate driving machine. It's it's pretty great. 641 00:38:43,680 --> 00:38:46,640 Speaker 1: It's pretty cramp though for my money, and it's still 642 00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:49,640 Speaker 1: is is pretty heavy, but yeah, it is the it 643 00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:52,320 Speaker 1: is the funnest one. I don't know that I'd recommend 644 00:38:52,400 --> 00:38:56,040 Speaker 1: it to everybody. It's for somebody who doesn't have three 645 00:38:56,160 --> 00:38:58,960 Speaker 1: kids and isn't Let's assume I want to buy an 646 00:38:59,120 --> 00:39:04,239 Speaker 1: M too, okay or three? Your ship has come in. No, no, no, 647 00:39:04,600 --> 00:39:06,200 Speaker 1: If you want to buy an M two or M three, 648 00:39:06,640 --> 00:39:11,359 Speaker 1: M five, are there equivalent Outies or Mercedes that are 649 00:39:11,520 --> 00:39:14,359 Speaker 1: just as good or better. They're pretty close. Yeah. They 650 00:39:14,480 --> 00:39:18,839 Speaker 1: You have the MG line of Mercedes, C classes any 651 00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:24,160 Speaker 1: classes and uh S classes uh and the out RS 652 00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:27,320 Speaker 1: models which are like the R S four, R six 653 00:39:27,480 --> 00:39:31,160 Speaker 1: those are those are hot, really hot cars. So if 654 00:39:31,200 --> 00:39:32,839 Speaker 1: you have to buy one of the three brands, which 655 00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:40,440 Speaker 1: would you buy? Oh, golly, um that I can't choose. Okay, 656 00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:45,880 Speaker 1: let's go, let's go. Let's go across difference between Toyota, Nissan, 657 00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:50,440 Speaker 1: Subaru the rest of the Japanese companies, well, I mean 658 00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:56,040 Speaker 1: it's hard to separate them from their current predicaments, which 659 00:39:56,280 --> 00:40:00,239 Speaker 1: are in Nissan's case, like complete shake up of their 660 00:40:00,280 --> 00:40:04,239 Speaker 1: corporate governance and the sort of simultaneous realization that they've 661 00:40:04,280 --> 00:40:06,759 Speaker 1: sort of been getting their sales for the last several 662 00:40:06,840 --> 00:40:10,480 Speaker 1: years to make themselves look more successful than they were. Uh, 663 00:40:10,600 --> 00:40:14,640 Speaker 1: similar problems. Uh leaving Japan with f c A, the 664 00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:19,000 Speaker 1: Fiat Chrysler where they were building cars and parking them 665 00:40:19,080 --> 00:40:23,000 Speaker 1: and you know, registering them and jetting their sales. So uh, 666 00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:27,120 Speaker 1: those those there there was that for those companies. Nissan 667 00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:30,880 Speaker 1: is suddenly about to not be profitable and that's you 668 00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:33,320 Speaker 1: know that that really changed their Okay, well when we 669 00:40:33,360 --> 00:40:37,000 Speaker 1: talk about I'm gonna buy one, oh well, I mean, uh, 670 00:40:37,880 --> 00:40:41,280 Speaker 1: I like Subaru. Still they for my money, they've gotten 671 00:40:41,400 --> 00:40:44,239 Speaker 1: way too big. They just get bigger and uglier with 672 00:40:44,360 --> 00:40:49,400 Speaker 1: each iteration. But um, but I'm sympathetic to them. Uh. 673 00:40:49,680 --> 00:40:54,080 Speaker 1: Toyotas are probably you know, your best bet overall in 674 00:40:54,280 --> 00:40:58,680 Speaker 1: terms of reliability, and um, some of their cars are 675 00:40:58,920 --> 00:41:01,880 Speaker 1: are quite good. I think you know, the new Corolla 676 00:41:02,680 --> 00:41:05,520 Speaker 1: x S. I think it's called it's a hatchback for 677 00:41:05,719 --> 00:41:07,839 Speaker 1: do or Corolla, and it's you know, it's aimed at 678 00:41:08,320 --> 00:41:12,799 Speaker 1: young people. Is actually remarkably you know, a pleasant car 679 00:41:12,920 --> 00:41:15,400 Speaker 1: to drive and pretty sporty. But I mean, you know 680 00:41:15,520 --> 00:41:19,360 Speaker 1: they've uh w r X subarus are pretty pretty groovy. 681 00:41:19,680 --> 00:41:24,640 Speaker 1: Um and uh I would also probably recommend that you 682 00:41:24,719 --> 00:41:27,320 Speaker 1: look at Days and Kiya's too before we get to 683 00:41:27,400 --> 00:41:31,560 Speaker 1: the Koreans. Okay, if we got to consumer reports every year, 684 00:41:32,120 --> 00:41:36,719 Speaker 1: Toyota and Lexus dominate. Okay, do you think that's a 685 00:41:36,800 --> 00:41:42,080 Speaker 1: significant dominance and reliability or do you believe whatever? I 686 00:41:42,200 --> 00:41:47,040 Speaker 1: think there's uh there, they are very reliable. I think 687 00:41:47,120 --> 00:41:50,120 Speaker 1: that a lot of those surveys, though, are kind of 688 00:41:50,840 --> 00:41:54,440 Speaker 1: they're they're kind of closed loops where people are happy 689 00:41:54,640 --> 00:41:57,640 Speaker 1: because they think they're happy. So they're happy, you know, 690 00:41:57,719 --> 00:41:59,759 Speaker 1: they think this is gonna be great, and so they're 691 00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:05,960 Speaker 1: perhaps more forgiving of of things than they might otherwise be. UM. Now, 692 00:42:06,080 --> 00:42:11,480 Speaker 1: certainly in the consumer reports, ratings are more um probably 693 00:42:11,560 --> 00:42:15,080 Speaker 1: more telling than you know, like the JD Power ones, um, 694 00:42:15,280 --> 00:42:17,600 Speaker 1: where where it really does depend you know, they're like 695 00:42:17,960 --> 00:42:23,040 Speaker 1: initial satisfaction, you know, Yeah, I mean so some really unreliable, 696 00:42:23,080 --> 00:42:28,400 Speaker 1: crappy brands had great initial satisfaction. Hummers for instance, which incidentally, 697 00:42:28,480 --> 00:42:30,520 Speaker 1: there's a rumor is going to come back as an 698 00:42:30,560 --> 00:42:35,520 Speaker 1: electric vehicle for general motors. Um so, uh, you know, 699 00:42:36,760 --> 00:42:40,239 Speaker 1: if you wait long enough, everything will happen. Okay, But 700 00:42:40,600 --> 00:42:43,560 Speaker 1: I come from the arrow where you wouldn't buy an 701 00:42:43,600 --> 00:42:47,160 Speaker 1: American car. I'm talking about once you get the seventies sixties, 702 00:42:47,239 --> 00:42:49,759 Speaker 1: we all all our parents had American cars. I have 703 00:42:49,840 --> 00:42:51,800 Speaker 1: a friend and bought a volt and he's had a 704 00:42:51,840 --> 00:42:57,120 Speaker 1: long stream and still owns uh German and Japanese uh cars. 705 00:42:57,440 --> 00:42:59,600 Speaker 1: He says, you know, it loosened up just like an 706 00:42:59,640 --> 00:43:04,439 Speaker 1: old American car in a good way or a bad way. Yeah. Well, 707 00:43:04,719 --> 00:43:07,600 Speaker 1: I don't see many people driving American cars with two 708 00:43:07,719 --> 00:43:10,280 Speaker 1: or three hundred thousand miles on them. I know plenty 709 00:43:10,320 --> 00:43:12,960 Speaker 1: of people with Hondas with two or three hundred thousand. Yeah, 710 00:43:13,280 --> 00:43:15,680 Speaker 1: you'd be surprised, though. I've I've run into some of 711 00:43:15,719 --> 00:43:18,120 Speaker 1: those American cars with high miles. Uh. You know it's 712 00:43:18,120 --> 00:43:20,440 Speaker 1: sunds like the engines can be very good in in 713 00:43:21,040 --> 00:43:25,239 Speaker 1: in terms of durability. Um. But yeah, and there's some 714 00:43:25,320 --> 00:43:28,600 Speaker 1: really the Chevy Bolt, which is the all electric one, 715 00:43:28,960 --> 00:43:32,600 Speaker 1: feels great. But what it's like with three hundred thousand miles, 716 00:43:32,680 --> 00:43:35,960 Speaker 1: I can't tell you. Um. But uh, but in general, yeah, 717 00:43:36,000 --> 00:43:40,000 Speaker 1: no it's not. You know, American cars they sell because 718 00:43:40,040 --> 00:43:44,080 Speaker 1: of people's you know, patriotism. You know, they're misca, so 719 00:43:44,160 --> 00:43:46,360 Speaker 1: they tend to be cheaper. And that's what I was 720 00:43:46,400 --> 00:43:48,240 Speaker 1: gonna say, is but if they were the same price, 721 00:43:48,360 --> 00:43:51,160 Speaker 1: I think, you know, you're a professional, but I would 722 00:43:51,200 --> 00:43:55,320 Speaker 1: say the Japanese cars are more reliable. Yeah, absolutely, and 723 00:43:55,440 --> 00:43:58,759 Speaker 1: that's why, Um, the American cars, well, there are no 724 00:43:58,880 --> 00:44:02,800 Speaker 1: more American cars. There's American Trusty. Are the Korean cars 725 00:44:03,000 --> 00:44:09,520 Speaker 1: as reliable as the Japanese cars? Um, my personal impression 726 00:44:09,640 --> 00:44:12,840 Speaker 1: is yes, I don't. I don't have the statistics. I mean, 727 00:44:12,880 --> 00:44:14,840 Speaker 1: I love I once. You know, I was at a 728 00:44:14,880 --> 00:44:17,680 Speaker 1: rental place about ten years ago and the only they 729 00:44:17,719 --> 00:44:20,520 Speaker 1: had left was Hyundai, and I cursed them as Sunday 730 00:44:20,640 --> 00:44:22,279 Speaker 1: is zero. By time I was ready to turn it 731 00:44:22,360 --> 00:44:24,239 Speaker 1: back in, I would have bought it. Yeah, you know, 732 00:44:24,320 --> 00:44:26,640 Speaker 1: it's just amazing how it's turned. You know. One of 733 00:44:26,719 --> 00:44:28,920 Speaker 1: the things about the automobile industry and a lot of 734 00:44:29,280 --> 00:44:30,640 Speaker 1: I guess it's true in a lot of industry is 735 00:44:30,640 --> 00:44:34,239 Speaker 1: probably making steal um that who you know, the people 736 00:44:34,280 --> 00:44:38,319 Speaker 1: who spend the big money the most recently are going 737 00:44:38,360 --> 00:44:44,239 Speaker 1: to necessarily have the most efficient uh production, UM you know, 738 00:44:44,880 --> 00:44:48,840 Speaker 1: UH systems and and the best equipment and stuff like that. 739 00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:51,879 Speaker 1: You know. So what what happens is when you fail 740 00:44:51,960 --> 00:44:54,840 Speaker 1: to reinvest sort of on a regular basis, you're just 741 00:44:55,040 --> 00:44:58,000 Speaker 1: you're just always going to be behind on on terms 742 00:44:58,080 --> 00:45:00,640 Speaker 1: like that. So the Koreans, you know, in some ways 743 00:45:00,800 --> 00:45:03,800 Speaker 1: or probably ahead of the Japanese for the fact that 744 00:45:04,040 --> 00:45:09,160 Speaker 1: they spend all the money more recently. So buy or lease? Uh, 745 00:45:09,520 --> 00:45:13,440 Speaker 1: there are situations where leases are a good idea. UM. 746 00:45:13,880 --> 00:45:17,120 Speaker 1: The UH it's mostly like when you know it's a 747 00:45:17,160 --> 00:45:20,600 Speaker 1: business purchase and you can write them. UH. It's also 748 00:45:20,640 --> 00:45:23,359 Speaker 1: a good idea in the sense that if you're uh 749 00:45:23,600 --> 00:45:25,719 Speaker 1: you have to be concerned about your monthly payment that 750 00:45:25,800 --> 00:45:28,799 Speaker 1: it's gonna cost you less, but you know it's it's 751 00:45:29,239 --> 00:45:33,879 Speaker 1: it's slightly somewhat more worth it to buy than lease 752 00:45:34,160 --> 00:45:36,840 Speaker 1: if you're just if you're just a private citizen, you 753 00:45:36,920 --> 00:45:39,000 Speaker 1: know you will have more money left at the end, 754 00:45:39,360 --> 00:45:42,480 Speaker 1: even if it costs you more per month. UH. And 755 00:45:42,560 --> 00:45:44,920 Speaker 1: then you also you own your car, and that's you know, 756 00:45:45,080 --> 00:45:48,640 Speaker 1: that's worth whatever it's it's worth. The one of the 757 00:45:48,719 --> 00:45:51,760 Speaker 1: trends in the industry that uh, you know, the average 758 00:45:51,800 --> 00:45:54,960 Speaker 1: person may not be aware of. UH. Is that because 759 00:45:55,040 --> 00:45:59,279 Speaker 1: cars have gotten more expensive, UM significantly really in the 760 00:45:59,360 --> 00:46:03,160 Speaker 1: last ten years. Is that least terms UH and UM 761 00:46:04,280 --> 00:46:08,000 Speaker 1: are and and car loans are going out much further 762 00:46:08,280 --> 00:46:12,560 Speaker 1: so because often people would be way upside down for 763 00:46:12,680 --> 00:46:17,520 Speaker 1: a long time, UH and have and monthly unaffordable monthly payments. 764 00:46:17,600 --> 00:46:21,200 Speaker 1: So you have uh six and seven year leases and 765 00:46:21,400 --> 00:46:25,160 Speaker 1: and you know car loans now which were unheard of. 766 00:46:25,440 --> 00:46:28,800 Speaker 1: You know certainly what you know UM in the in 767 00:46:28,920 --> 00:46:32,640 Speaker 1: the last century. You know, in part because you know 768 00:46:32,760 --> 00:46:35,920 Speaker 1: your car probably wasn't gonna last six or seven years. Okay, 769 00:46:36,680 --> 00:46:42,319 Speaker 1: we're used the smart shopper buys a two year old, 770 00:46:43,080 --> 00:46:47,160 Speaker 1: low mileage off lease car from from a dealer in 771 00:46:47,400 --> 00:46:51,560 Speaker 1: terms of probably the least hassle. But but the first 772 00:46:51,600 --> 00:46:55,480 Speaker 1: two years r when the big depreciation happens. And most cars, 773 00:46:55,600 --> 00:46:57,719 Speaker 1: you know, if they have twenty miles on them, have 774 00:46:58,120 --> 00:46:59,920 Speaker 1: a ton of life left, So that would be the 775 00:47:00,280 --> 00:47:02,960 Speaker 1: the smart move. Do you buy a certified or uncertified 776 00:47:03,680 --> 00:47:06,000 Speaker 1: if you can afford it. Certified, it's good. It's just 777 00:47:06,200 --> 00:47:11,320 Speaker 1: less hassle, more seamless operation, and uh, you know you 778 00:47:11,400 --> 00:47:14,719 Speaker 1: have a warranty. That's that's usually is very good for 779 00:47:14,880 --> 00:47:18,360 Speaker 1: a long time. That's a certainly a growing segment of 780 00:47:18,440 --> 00:47:22,080 Speaker 1: sales or certified cars. Okay, used to be the rule, 781 00:47:22,560 --> 00:47:26,960 Speaker 1: don't buy a car first year they changed the model. Uh, 782 00:47:27,320 --> 00:47:31,160 Speaker 1: you know, there's probably some validity to that, although they 783 00:47:31,280 --> 00:47:33,399 Speaker 1: you know, they have a generally have a pretty good 784 00:47:33,400 --> 00:47:35,520 Speaker 1: idea of what's good and bad about a new car. 785 00:47:35,640 --> 00:47:39,799 Speaker 1: But in this century, certainly with the explosion in electronics 786 00:47:39,880 --> 00:47:42,279 Speaker 1: and cars, there are a lot of cars that were 787 00:47:43,200 --> 00:47:47,799 Speaker 1: being sold that they hadn't figured out the bugs yet. 788 00:47:48,120 --> 00:47:52,440 Speaker 1: The Sea class Mercedes early in the century, I mean 789 00:47:52,520 --> 00:47:55,919 Speaker 1: they were they were still writing code for those back 790 00:47:56,040 --> 00:47:59,680 Speaker 1: in in short guard while cars were here on their 791 00:47:59,680 --> 00:48:02,520 Speaker 1: flat bed way on their way back to the dealers 792 00:48:03,000 --> 00:48:08,600 Speaker 1: for you know, inexplicable problems that were related to unfinished code, 793 00:48:08,920 --> 00:48:12,279 Speaker 1: UM and faulty code and things like that. So, uh, 794 00:48:12,640 --> 00:48:15,479 Speaker 1: cars are being asked to do so many more things 795 00:48:15,600 --> 00:48:20,759 Speaker 1: now that um um there. There's just a lot to do. 796 00:48:20,960 --> 00:48:24,320 Speaker 1: And of course the Germans wanted, who are very competitive 797 00:48:24,400 --> 00:48:26,560 Speaker 1: with each other. The minute one of them enters a 798 00:48:26,600 --> 00:48:31,759 Speaker 1: new market segment, Uh, they all follow. It's it's like clockwork. Uh, 799 00:48:32,000 --> 00:48:36,200 Speaker 1: they have a lot, you know, they're stretched. It's pretty thin. Okay, 800 00:48:36,280 --> 00:48:41,520 Speaker 1: what about Tesla, Well, you know a noble uh project. 801 00:48:42,000 --> 00:48:46,400 Speaker 1: You know, it's you know, good cars. I would say, uh, 802 00:48:46,760 --> 00:48:50,480 Speaker 1: you know, great in some respects uh that for whatever reason, 803 00:48:50,560 --> 00:48:54,239 Speaker 1: I've never been like, you know, a true believer like I'm. 804 00:48:54,440 --> 00:48:56,600 Speaker 1: They don't excite me. I don't aspire to own one. 805 00:48:57,120 --> 00:49:00,480 Speaker 1: At the same time, I admire them great for what 806 00:49:00,640 --> 00:49:03,880 Speaker 1: they proved could be done. And I also I'm not 807 00:49:04,040 --> 00:49:07,600 Speaker 1: a true hater, which the automotive world is pretty much 808 00:49:07,640 --> 00:49:12,160 Speaker 1: split up between Tesla drives UH car companies, but particularly 809 00:49:12,200 --> 00:49:15,680 Speaker 1: American car companies crazy because you know, four in GM 810 00:49:15,760 --> 00:49:17,840 Speaker 1: can they can make billions of dollars of profit and 811 00:49:17,920 --> 00:49:21,120 Speaker 1: their stock goes down and Tesla is you know, is 812 00:49:21,600 --> 00:49:25,440 Speaker 1: its market cap is higher than GM some days and 813 00:49:25,920 --> 00:49:28,279 Speaker 1: they don't you know, they haven't made a profit really ever, 814 00:49:29,120 --> 00:49:32,000 Speaker 1: except by selling tax credits. They don't sell you know, 815 00:49:32,120 --> 00:49:36,279 Speaker 1: like a fraction of the cars. And yet people give 816 00:49:36,320 --> 00:49:39,200 Speaker 1: them all the breaks. So the car companies, you know, 817 00:49:39,360 --> 00:49:43,600 Speaker 1: being an American car executive has basically been kind of 818 00:49:43,760 --> 00:49:46,680 Speaker 1: like uh uh you know, some kind of slow form 819 00:49:46,760 --> 00:49:50,279 Speaker 1: of water torture for the last forgetting Tesla fan, I'm 820 00:49:50,320 --> 00:49:53,600 Speaker 1: not as sympathetic to the car manufacturers in America as 821 00:49:53,680 --> 00:49:57,560 Speaker 1: you are. They've consistently refused to make change. So at 822 00:49:57,600 --> 00:50:00,440 Speaker 1: this point they're hanging it out in suv Land. As 823 00:50:00,520 --> 00:50:04,480 Speaker 1: soon as the bubble bursts, they're fucked. Yeah. I mean, Bob, 824 00:50:05,480 --> 00:50:08,520 Speaker 1: I you're a pal, So I won't I won't take 825 00:50:08,560 --> 00:50:12,719 Speaker 1: offense at that remark that UM, I'm I've been you know, 826 00:50:12,960 --> 00:50:17,080 Speaker 1: I've been complaining about how stupid they are since i 827 00:50:17,239 --> 00:50:20,880 Speaker 1: first started UM. In an up end in the l 828 00:50:20,960 --> 00:50:26,000 Speaker 1: A Times, I predicted GM's bankruptcy following its uh most 829 00:50:26,040 --> 00:50:30,440 Speaker 1: profitable quarter ever. UM and Automobile Magazine refused to run it, 830 00:50:30,719 --> 00:50:36,040 Speaker 1: and Uh I was able to. I said that what 831 00:50:36,320 --> 00:50:39,359 Speaker 1: we see here is is that they are not UM 832 00:50:39,560 --> 00:50:42,120 Speaker 1: they've given up on cars. Uh, they hadn't given up 833 00:50:42,160 --> 00:50:43,960 Speaker 1: like they've given up now. But it was the exact 834 00:50:44,040 --> 00:50:46,360 Speaker 1: same thing, and all their money was coming from SUVs 835 00:50:46,640 --> 00:50:50,200 Speaker 1: and pickup trucks, and one of three things we're gonna happen, 836 00:50:50,280 --> 00:50:54,080 Speaker 1: or some combination of uh, you know, the there'd be 837 00:50:54,120 --> 00:50:57,239 Speaker 1: a gas crisis and it would be a problem. Uh, 838 00:50:57,600 --> 00:51:00,719 Speaker 1: there would be Japanese competition, you know that they were 839 00:51:00,760 --> 00:51:04,520 Speaker 1: going to just catch up and make SUVs and pickup trucks. Uh, 840 00:51:05,160 --> 00:51:08,080 Speaker 1: and the fashion would change and all of that came 841 00:51:08,160 --> 00:51:11,440 Speaker 1: to pass in the ten years later when uh, you know, 842 00:51:11,560 --> 00:51:14,160 Speaker 1: in the early two thousands were of course rocky, but 843 00:51:14,760 --> 00:51:19,680 Speaker 1: when they went bankrupt. Okay, so let's talk about a first. 844 00:51:19,760 --> 00:51:21,680 Speaker 1: Let's break it down a little bit, the shift to 845 00:51:21,760 --> 00:51:25,439 Speaker 1: electric How do you see that playing out slower than 846 00:51:25,920 --> 00:51:28,839 Speaker 1: um we might hope. I mean, I should start by 847 00:51:28,880 --> 00:51:32,400 Speaker 1: saying that I was never anti electric, but I was 848 00:51:32,480 --> 00:51:35,120 Speaker 1: sort of skeptical, and then I actually got to spend 849 00:51:35,200 --> 00:51:37,880 Speaker 1: time with electric cars and they can be great. Uh. 850 00:51:38,400 --> 00:51:41,440 Speaker 1: And uh I had actually an electric Volkswagen Golf for 851 00:51:41,480 --> 00:51:44,160 Speaker 1: a year in New York. I put fifteen thousand miles 852 00:51:44,239 --> 00:51:48,800 Speaker 1: on it. I calculated I skipped fifty five separate trips 853 00:51:48,840 --> 00:51:52,200 Speaker 1: to the gas station, which was you know, its own reward. Um. 854 00:51:52,440 --> 00:51:54,520 Speaker 1: And I loved it. Uh. And it didn't even have 855 00:51:54,800 --> 00:51:57,879 Speaker 1: the big ranges that cars have now. Uh, there's something 856 00:51:57,920 --> 00:52:00,399 Speaker 1: about being an electric car that's so relaxed. Seeing you've 857 00:52:00,520 --> 00:52:03,279 Speaker 1: drive through some horrible traffic and you're you know, a 858 00:52:03,400 --> 00:52:06,200 Speaker 1: distance to get somewhere and you just get out. You're 859 00:52:06,719 --> 00:52:10,560 Speaker 1: not hearing that, you know of an engine for uh, 860 00:52:10,719 --> 00:52:13,680 Speaker 1: you know, an hour or two. Is is really makes 861 00:52:13,719 --> 00:52:16,920 Speaker 1: you feel better? So it's it's quite luxurious in that sense. Um, 862 00:52:17,280 --> 00:52:22,279 Speaker 1: but I think that uh, the internationally there certainly is 863 00:52:22,520 --> 00:52:24,920 Speaker 1: a huge push for that to happen. It probably has 864 00:52:25,000 --> 00:52:29,640 Speaker 1: to happen, you know, it's beyond argument. Although if you 865 00:52:29,840 --> 00:52:32,239 Speaker 1: this was a call in show, we'd have eleven Yeah, 866 00:52:32,280 --> 00:52:34,880 Speaker 1: who's waiting in this agreement? Me? But I'm not interested 867 00:52:34,920 --> 00:52:39,680 Speaker 1: in them? But uh, but it's beyond argument that the 868 00:52:39,760 --> 00:52:42,160 Speaker 1: electric cars are more efficient. Even if you live in 869 00:52:42,200 --> 00:52:45,360 Speaker 1: a state that burns coal, you're still better off in 870 00:52:45,360 --> 00:52:48,399 Speaker 1: an electric car than you are buying gasoline. And of course, 871 00:52:48,480 --> 00:52:51,799 Speaker 1: you know, the oil companies people when I was a kid, 872 00:52:52,000 --> 00:52:53,920 Speaker 1: you know, people used to go, well, and you know, 873 00:52:54,000 --> 00:52:56,960 Speaker 1: in the seventies like what what's worse like the GM 874 00:52:57,080 --> 00:53:00,239 Speaker 1: or XI mobile and people go, I don't know, you know. Now, 875 00:53:00,560 --> 00:53:03,480 Speaker 1: to me, it's clear that the oil companies are the 876 00:53:03,600 --> 00:53:07,239 Speaker 1: evil list of of the evil corporate actors, worse even 877 00:53:07,320 --> 00:53:11,560 Speaker 1: than the car companies, who are you know, amazingly bad themselves. 878 00:53:11,640 --> 00:53:14,480 Speaker 1: But the wild companies were the words so so starving 879 00:53:14,520 --> 00:53:19,839 Speaker 1: them of of money for gasoline is uh is would 880 00:53:19,880 --> 00:53:22,160 Speaker 1: be a fine, you know thing to do with your life. 881 00:53:22,960 --> 00:53:26,880 Speaker 1: So when does the fleet go all electric? I think that, 882 00:53:27,200 --> 00:53:31,160 Speaker 1: you know, uh, increasingly. And it's hard to tell what 883 00:53:31,320 --> 00:53:34,160 Speaker 1: the effect of Trump has been, which has been, you know, 884 00:53:34,320 --> 00:53:38,839 Speaker 1: completely negative on the world in every respect. But um, 885 00:53:39,600 --> 00:53:41,600 Speaker 1: the people used to think it was going to happen 886 00:53:42,080 --> 00:53:45,040 Speaker 1: like next year and the year after that. Uh. You know, 887 00:53:45,120 --> 00:53:48,719 Speaker 1: I think we'll be seeing uh, internal combustion engines. I 888 00:53:48,920 --> 00:53:52,239 Speaker 1: see engines or i c e. As they call them, 889 00:53:52,480 --> 00:53:59,399 Speaker 1: uh into the you know, Uh, I don't mean we'll 890 00:53:59,480 --> 00:54:02,560 Speaker 1: see uh, we won't see a lot more electrics. I 891 00:54:02,600 --> 00:54:06,640 Speaker 1: could say, I could see thirty When will they stop manufacturing? 892 00:54:07,640 --> 00:54:11,799 Speaker 1: Volkswagen has said that they're gonna stop designing anymore now, 893 00:54:11,920 --> 00:54:16,360 Speaker 1: but nobody necessarily believes that, but they have that. Volvo 894 00:54:16,600 --> 00:54:20,640 Speaker 1: said that they're gonna go all electric. Um and uh, 895 00:54:20,760 --> 00:54:23,360 Speaker 1: but their first electric car is a hybrid with a 896 00:54:23,440 --> 00:54:28,160 Speaker 1: gas engine and a big battery pack, so the poll 897 00:54:28,200 --> 00:54:31,200 Speaker 1: Star one. But so so I would say that, you know, 898 00:54:31,640 --> 00:54:34,160 Speaker 1: you will see more and more electric cars. You know. 899 00:54:34,400 --> 00:54:39,200 Speaker 1: The what's lacking is infrastructural investment, you know, charging stations 900 00:54:39,400 --> 00:54:41,840 Speaker 1: and more of them, and you see hopeful signs. I 901 00:54:41,960 --> 00:54:44,120 Speaker 1: think it was Shell said they were going to spend 902 00:54:44,560 --> 00:54:49,799 Speaker 1: five billion dollars to put charging stations into shell stations. Uh. 903 00:54:49,960 --> 00:54:52,719 Speaker 1: And I have every confidence in the oil industry that 904 00:54:52,840 --> 00:54:57,480 Speaker 1: they will whatever the next fuel sources, because um hydrogen 905 00:54:57,640 --> 00:55:01,719 Speaker 1: is not dead yet uh and fuel cells, UH, that 906 00:55:02,200 --> 00:55:05,080 Speaker 1: that whatever happens, that the oil companies will figure out 907 00:55:05,120 --> 00:55:10,680 Speaker 1: a way to sell it to us. Yeah. I mean they'll, they'll, they'll. Okay, 908 00:55:10,719 --> 00:55:13,560 Speaker 1: so let's go drill down to Trump. He on an 909 00:55:13,719 --> 00:55:17,000 Speaker 1: environmental level, he's battling the state of California. How did 910 00:55:17,040 --> 00:55:21,040 Speaker 1: you see that playing out? I don't know, sadly. A 911 00:55:21,120 --> 00:55:22,880 Speaker 1: lot of it I think has to do with the 912 00:55:22,960 --> 00:55:26,480 Speaker 1: Supreme Court. But I see a lot of uh, positive 913 00:55:26,760 --> 00:55:31,000 Speaker 1: futures in states standing up that you know, are for 914 00:55:31,760 --> 00:55:35,319 Speaker 1: cleaning up the air against them. So I think it's 915 00:55:35,360 --> 00:55:37,080 Speaker 1: going to go on and on and on. But when 916 00:55:37,560 --> 00:55:42,400 Speaker 1: he's replaced, I think that a a more sensible administration, 917 00:55:42,719 --> 00:55:45,840 Speaker 1: even a Republican one. I mean, he is, he is beyond, 918 00:55:46,080 --> 00:55:49,840 Speaker 1: absolutely beyond the pale. I mean, George Bush was terrible 919 00:55:49,920 --> 00:55:54,640 Speaker 1: for the environment, Dick Cheney and fracking, which just led 920 00:55:54,880 --> 00:55:58,360 Speaker 1: to a kind of a third win for gasoline powered 921 00:55:58,400 --> 00:56:01,839 Speaker 1: cars and cheap us and all that kind of stuff. Uh. 922 00:56:02,120 --> 00:56:05,960 Speaker 1: Even he you know, cleaned up diesel in America, not 923 00:56:06,480 --> 00:56:08,120 Speaker 1: to a point where it's actually good for you, but 924 00:56:08,280 --> 00:56:12,160 Speaker 1: it's it's was way less bad than it was. Uh Trump, 925 00:56:12,880 --> 00:56:16,120 Speaker 1: It's not that he's just against regulation. You get the feeling. 926 00:56:16,239 --> 00:56:19,399 Speaker 1: You start getting the feeling that he's for pollution. He's 927 00:56:19,400 --> 00:56:21,680 Speaker 1: actively for it and if there's anything he can do 928 00:56:22,200 --> 00:56:24,719 Speaker 1: to make the air dirtier, he'll he'll do it. Um. 929 00:56:25,280 --> 00:56:28,360 Speaker 1: And that's uh, that's pretty dispiriting. Um. People at the 930 00:56:28,400 --> 00:56:30,799 Speaker 1: e p A Are like, if you could even get 931 00:56:30,840 --> 00:56:33,560 Speaker 1: somebody to talk to you, their shell shocked, um and 932 00:56:33,840 --> 00:56:36,960 Speaker 1: keeping their heads down, you know, waiting for him to 933 00:56:37,040 --> 00:56:41,160 Speaker 1: go because Um, it's put the United States really out 934 00:56:41,200 --> 00:56:43,520 Speaker 1: of step with the rest of the world. It's actually 935 00:56:43,600 --> 00:56:47,400 Speaker 1: put American makers, who were embracing it at a competitive 936 00:56:47,440 --> 00:56:55,439 Speaker 1: disadvantage in the world, certainly China, Electric Volkswagen World. We're 937 00:56:55,840 --> 00:56:59,840 Speaker 1: you know, we are paddling to third world status is 938 00:57:00,120 --> 00:57:10,880 Speaker 1: as hard as we can. Okay, what about self driving also, Uh, 939 00:57:11,239 --> 00:57:15,479 Speaker 1: their imminence has been greatly overstated. I would say they're 940 00:57:15,600 --> 00:57:18,160 Speaker 1: they're gonna come, but there's so many issues involved with 941 00:57:18,320 --> 00:57:23,800 Speaker 1: them that um it is uh, you know, they're they're 942 00:57:23,880 --> 00:57:26,920 Speaker 1: a lot further out. I mean, Tesla predicted that they 943 00:57:26,960 --> 00:57:29,600 Speaker 1: would have one in two thousands, seventeen and this year, 944 00:57:30,000 --> 00:57:31,720 Speaker 1: and it's now, it's going to be in a few months, 945 00:57:32,040 --> 00:57:34,160 Speaker 1: and they're still not as self driving as they were 946 00:57:34,160 --> 00:57:36,480 Speaker 1: supposed to be. You have to have a driver. A 947 00:57:36,600 --> 00:57:40,040 Speaker 1: lot of UH companies have have gone back to the 948 00:57:40,120 --> 00:57:42,760 Speaker 1: drawing board to think about it harder. Now there, I 949 00:57:42,880 --> 00:57:45,120 Speaker 1: think it will happen, but it is one of those 950 00:57:45,200 --> 00:57:48,080 Speaker 1: things that really leads you to wonder, like, you know, 951 00:57:48,400 --> 00:57:50,160 Speaker 1: is it really worth it in a in a in 952 00:57:50,280 --> 00:57:53,880 Speaker 1: a sort of scarcity environment, even with the huge deficits 953 00:57:53,920 --> 00:57:57,280 Speaker 1: were ready to run now, like, do we really want 954 00:57:57,320 --> 00:57:59,920 Speaker 1: to be investing what has to be trillions of dollars 955 00:58:00,360 --> 00:58:03,240 Speaker 1: in making it so people can like party in their car? 956 00:58:03,560 --> 00:58:05,400 Speaker 1: And um, well, I don't. Look, I don't have the 957 00:58:05,480 --> 00:58:09,160 Speaker 1: same perspective. I believe these things are inevitable. I believe 958 00:58:09,200 --> 00:58:11,800 Speaker 1: you'll call up a vehicle. No one will own a vehicle. 959 00:58:11,880 --> 00:58:14,240 Speaker 1: It's just about the time. Oh yeah, I'm not I'm 960 00:58:14,280 --> 00:58:16,320 Speaker 1: not saying that they're not. But the reality is is 961 00:58:16,400 --> 00:58:18,880 Speaker 1: that there are a lot of negative things about that. 962 00:58:19,400 --> 00:58:22,960 Speaker 1: An interesting analysis in Business Week saying yes, if we 963 00:58:23,080 --> 00:58:26,320 Speaker 1: go to driverless cars, they're gonna be some accidents and 964 00:58:26,320 --> 00:58:28,800 Speaker 1: they're gonna kill some people. But if you don't go 965 00:58:28,920 --> 00:58:32,160 Speaker 1: to driverless cars, which on some levels are much safer, 966 00:58:32,560 --> 00:58:35,600 Speaker 1: we're gonna kill more people because people are getting killed 967 00:58:35,760 --> 00:58:38,240 Speaker 1: and we're still gonna have to go through this. We will, 968 00:58:38,360 --> 00:58:40,680 Speaker 1: we will find out about that. I think the accidents 969 00:58:40,720 --> 00:58:44,440 Speaker 1: will be uh more spectacular in some ways. You know, 970 00:58:44,720 --> 00:58:47,360 Speaker 1: twelve hundred people exit the Jersey Turnpike to go to 971 00:58:47,400 --> 00:58:50,120 Speaker 1: the same parking spot McDonald's at a hundred and ten 972 00:58:50,160 --> 00:58:53,200 Speaker 1: miles an hour, then uh and six hundred people die. 973 00:58:53,600 --> 00:58:56,680 Speaker 1: But we'll we'll, we'll find out about that. Um and 974 00:58:56,800 --> 00:58:59,400 Speaker 1: I agree with you that it's gonna happen. But in 975 00:58:59,640 --> 00:59:03,720 Speaker 1: the process, what's getting short shrift is mass transit, Like 976 00:59:03,880 --> 00:59:06,200 Speaker 1: where's all the money for the subways to fix the 977 00:59:06,360 --> 00:59:10,080 Speaker 1: and build trains which remain more efficient. It's great if 978 00:59:10,120 --> 00:59:12,280 Speaker 1: everybody is in there little pod, but if you still 979 00:59:12,320 --> 00:59:14,440 Speaker 1: have everybody a little pod, there's still gonna be more 980 00:59:14,520 --> 00:59:18,000 Speaker 1: traffic and more energy consumption than there would be if 981 00:59:18,040 --> 00:59:21,520 Speaker 1: people rode a clean bus or a well, no one's 982 00:59:21,560 --> 00:59:23,920 Speaker 1: gonna ride the bus because it takes so long trains 983 00:59:23,960 --> 00:59:27,120 Speaker 1: are an interesting thing, certainly in the metropolis. They're not 984 00:59:27,240 --> 00:59:29,760 Speaker 1: being improved because no one wants to pay taxes. But 985 00:59:30,000 --> 00:59:32,439 Speaker 1: keep going here. How many cars do you presently own? 986 00:59:33,200 --> 00:59:36,720 Speaker 1: I own an embarrassingly large number, but somewhere around uh 987 00:59:37,520 --> 00:59:41,000 Speaker 1: twenty three I think, which is actually down from what 988 00:59:41,080 --> 00:59:44,400 Speaker 1: it was. But I have an excuse that. Um. I 989 00:59:44,600 --> 00:59:48,000 Speaker 1: started a picture car business in New York and uh, 990 00:59:48,400 --> 00:59:51,120 Speaker 1: which we hope to go national. We're working with the 991 00:59:51,960 --> 00:59:56,200 Speaker 1: classic car insurance company Haggardy UH and we've been doing 992 00:59:56,600 --> 01:00:02,040 Speaker 1: um um Mrs Mazel and uh Deduce and other TV 993 01:00:02,120 --> 01:00:06,600 Speaker 1: shows around. Anyway, we have a database of thousands of 994 01:00:06,680 --> 01:00:09,760 Speaker 1: cars and we supply old cars. So okay, but let's 995 01:00:09,760 --> 01:00:12,320 Speaker 1: forget their cars. You have twenty three cars? What are they? 996 01:00:12,520 --> 01:00:15,000 Speaker 1: They're nothing that I would recommend to. Uh, So what 997 01:00:15,080 --> 01:00:21,160 Speaker 1: are they people? UM? I have Launchia and some Fulvia 998 01:00:21,640 --> 01:00:26,400 Speaker 1: UM and a Flavia Uh that's dead. I have a 999 01:00:26,480 --> 01:00:30,440 Speaker 1: bunch of Poe's and mg s and uh Lotus Cortina 1000 01:00:31,200 --> 01:00:37,480 Speaker 1: and Volvo old Volvos and um some Jaguars and uh 1001 01:00:37,600 --> 01:00:40,720 Speaker 1: you know where are they're in? Uh in New York 1002 01:00:40,840 --> 01:00:44,280 Speaker 1: back not in the city, but in a big garage 1003 01:00:44,360 --> 01:00:47,280 Speaker 1: and a bunch of them are sort of in pieces 1004 01:00:47,400 --> 01:00:50,280 Speaker 1: and shops around the area. Okay, and how does one 1005 01:00:50,320 --> 01:00:53,320 Speaker 1: deal in terms of driving? How does the insurance work? Well? 1006 01:00:54,000 --> 01:00:57,640 Speaker 1: Through Haggardy, But there's other carriers, there's Classic Car insurance. 1007 01:00:57,760 --> 01:00:59,919 Speaker 1: It's very cheap. So for all those cars, the total 1008 01:01:00,000 --> 01:01:03,439 Speaker 1: insurance bill is probably like four thousand bucks a year. Really, yeah, 1009 01:01:03,800 --> 01:01:07,560 Speaker 1: because you know, you're their limitations on use. You could 1010 01:01:07,560 --> 01:01:11,640 Speaker 1: only go miles a year. But like, yeah, I mean 1011 01:01:12,280 --> 01:01:14,440 Speaker 1: I'm lucky if I get a thousand on on some 1012 01:01:14,600 --> 01:01:18,440 Speaker 1: of them. Um, and uh, you can't you know, drive that. 1013 01:01:18,440 --> 01:01:20,080 Speaker 1: You're not supposed to drive them to work. You're not 1014 01:01:20,160 --> 01:01:24,080 Speaker 1: supposed to uh uh you know, um commuting them and 1015 01:01:24,160 --> 01:01:26,480 Speaker 1: things like that. But uh but yeah, no, it's a 1016 01:01:26,520 --> 01:01:28,880 Speaker 1: really it's a really sensible option for somebody to Okay, 1017 01:01:28,920 --> 01:01:32,800 Speaker 1: so what's your test cars? I get a different car 1018 01:01:33,080 --> 01:01:35,920 Speaker 1: dropped off every week to my house and they pick 1019 01:01:36,000 --> 01:01:37,800 Speaker 1: it up at the end of the week. Every week, 1020 01:01:37,920 --> 01:01:40,600 Speaker 1: every single week. Yeah, I probably drive like well, sometimes 1021 01:01:40,640 --> 01:01:44,080 Speaker 1: they have two. It's like se I probably new cars 1022 01:01:44,120 --> 01:01:47,000 Speaker 1: a year. I actually dropped off an Audi A seven 1023 01:01:47,040 --> 01:01:50,040 Speaker 1: at the airport when I came here, and I'm picking 1024 01:01:50,120 --> 01:01:52,600 Speaker 1: up a Jeep Gladiator, which is the new ge pick 1025 01:01:52,680 --> 01:01:56,800 Speaker 1: up based on the Wrangler. When I get back to town, 1026 01:01:58,040 --> 01:02:00,840 Speaker 1: let's assume you drive into one. Do you necessarily right 1027 01:02:00,920 --> 01:02:05,320 Speaker 1: about each one? No? No, they don't care. Uh they might. 1028 01:02:05,760 --> 01:02:08,000 Speaker 1: You know, there's certain cars like if you ask for 1029 01:02:08,080 --> 01:02:11,080 Speaker 1: a nine eleven turbo and then didn't do anything, they'd 1030 01:02:11,160 --> 01:02:14,720 Speaker 1: remember that. But who is they companies that to all 1031 01:02:14,760 --> 01:02:17,920 Speaker 1: the companies they're all at the airport generally have a well, 1032 01:02:17,960 --> 01:02:23,560 Speaker 1: they have fleet managers who are approximate to major cities 1033 01:02:23,600 --> 01:02:27,320 Speaker 1: and often to airports. Uh. And they you know, they 1034 01:02:27,880 --> 01:02:30,320 Speaker 1: drop them off, pick them up. They'll either drop him 1035 01:02:30,320 --> 01:02:32,120 Speaker 1: at the airport, they'll pick up drop him at your house. 1036 01:02:32,160 --> 01:02:35,120 Speaker 1: They'll pick up one before. So there's four or five 1037 01:02:35,160 --> 01:02:37,640 Speaker 1: companies in New York that do that. So you deal 1038 01:02:37,720 --> 01:02:40,440 Speaker 1: with them and the companies themselves. Okay, so what are 1039 01:02:40,520 --> 01:02:42,840 Speaker 1: some companies? What are Since you drive so many cars, 1040 01:02:43,360 --> 01:02:49,160 Speaker 1: your personal experience big winners, big losers? Uh? In what sense? 1041 01:02:49,600 --> 01:02:55,320 Speaker 1: Personal satisfaction? Oh? Um? I love, I love um sports 1042 01:02:55,400 --> 01:02:59,840 Speaker 1: cars that are uh, nimble and on the smaller side. 1043 01:03:00,080 --> 01:03:03,960 Speaker 1: I love. My most exciting car of of two thousand 1044 01:03:04,040 --> 01:03:08,280 Speaker 1: nineteen was the New Lotus of Oura GT for thirty 1045 01:03:08,440 --> 01:03:12,520 Speaker 1: or something like that. Just awesome car. UM. I drove 1046 01:03:13,320 --> 01:03:18,440 Speaker 1: a Ford that's been discontinued in America, the Fiesta RS 1047 01:03:18,680 --> 01:03:22,440 Speaker 1: in France, uh in September for a week and it 1048 01:03:22,640 --> 01:03:26,200 Speaker 1: was fabulous. And they made a terrible mistake and not 1049 01:03:26,320 --> 01:03:29,520 Speaker 1: bring the car to America. In my view, um, you know, 1050 01:03:30,080 --> 01:03:33,720 Speaker 1: better than the car that we had and loved before it. Um. 1051 01:03:34,000 --> 01:03:37,560 Speaker 1: So those those were h two standouts. UM, but you know, 1052 01:03:38,000 --> 01:03:41,600 Speaker 1: you drive some The new poll Star was very impressive. UM. 1053 01:03:41,880 --> 01:03:44,480 Speaker 1: And you drive you know, I mean how you know 1054 01:03:44,600 --> 01:03:48,120 Speaker 1: what gear head wouldn't want to drive a McLaren or Ferrari. 1055 01:03:48,320 --> 01:03:52,479 Speaker 1: You know they're awesome. But uh so those have been great. 1056 01:03:52,520 --> 01:03:55,960 Speaker 1: But I actually, um, I'm really interested in the bottom 1057 01:03:56,080 --> 01:03:58,480 Speaker 1: end of the market, so I drive, you know, the 1058 01:03:59,280 --> 01:04:03,560 Speaker 1: cheap cars too, and and I'm often really impressed by 1059 01:04:05,560 --> 01:04:09,439 Speaker 1: Oh gosh. Uh. I really liked the Honda Clarity, which 1060 01:04:09,560 --> 01:04:12,720 Speaker 1: is a hybrid. It's a hybrid. There's also a fuel 1061 01:04:12,760 --> 01:04:15,720 Speaker 1: cell version, but in California, and they've sold six or 1062 01:04:15,760 --> 01:04:18,120 Speaker 1: something like that. They don't really want to sell them. 1063 01:04:18,320 --> 01:04:27,120 Speaker 1: Um and uh. I drove the new Civic Sin that 1064 01:04:27,240 --> 01:04:33,240 Speaker 1: was pretty pretty fun. Um and UM gosh, Uh what else? 1065 01:04:33,280 --> 01:04:36,640 Speaker 1: The M two was great? Uh? The BMW so yeah, 1066 01:04:36,720 --> 01:04:40,680 Speaker 1: I mean there's I just had a The Jeep Wrangler 1067 01:04:40,960 --> 01:04:44,680 Speaker 1: the other week, and I had initially lukewarm reaction to it. 1068 01:04:44,720 --> 01:04:46,520 Speaker 1: I thought it was it was a lot better than 1069 01:04:46,560 --> 01:04:50,400 Speaker 1: I thought. Actually, by coincidence, I was delivering to uh 1070 01:04:50,520 --> 01:04:53,960 Speaker 1: the set of an Apple TV show a G sixty 1071 01:04:54,080 --> 01:04:58,320 Speaker 1: three Galanda bag and Mercedes from two thou eighteen, which 1072 01:04:58,400 --> 01:05:01,200 Speaker 1: is it's actually been updated and is better since that. 1073 01:05:01,320 --> 01:05:04,880 Speaker 1: But in every respect except like straight it had speed 1074 01:05:05,000 --> 01:05:08,280 Speaker 1: and the quality of the materials. The Jeep was more 1075 01:05:08,400 --> 01:05:12,520 Speaker 1: pleasant than the Mercedes was, which cost trip all the money. Yeah, 1076 01:05:12,520 --> 01:05:14,600 Speaker 1: but the Mercedes was always considered a joke. It was 1077 01:05:14,680 --> 01:05:17,080 Speaker 1: you know, people bought those for status, but no one 1078 01:05:17,120 --> 01:05:18,960 Speaker 1: ever said they were a smooth rod or a car 1079 01:05:19,000 --> 01:05:22,280 Speaker 1: where they were wor smoother. Before somebody had the idea 1080 01:05:22,320 --> 01:05:25,439 Speaker 1: of putting them on twenty three inch wheels with seven 1081 01:05:25,520 --> 01:05:28,200 Speaker 1: hundred horsepower engine in them, which is just like the 1082 01:05:28,480 --> 01:05:31,040 Speaker 1: stupidest idea in the world. People don't know about the 1083 01:05:31,080 --> 01:05:34,080 Speaker 1: Glanda Vagum that it was actually the show of Iran's idea. 1084 01:05:34,480 --> 01:05:36,280 Speaker 1: He went to Mercedes and said, if you could build 1085 01:05:36,280 --> 01:05:38,920 Speaker 1: me something that was sort of like this. Um we 1086 01:05:39,320 --> 01:05:41,439 Speaker 1: we we would buy them from me for our army, 1087 01:05:41,960 --> 01:05:43,960 Speaker 1: and so they did. It was originally kind of a 1088 01:05:44,000 --> 01:05:47,400 Speaker 1: military vehicle and then but it was much more more 1089 01:05:47,560 --> 01:05:51,840 Speaker 1: austere and you know, sort of work vehicle. Then just 1090 01:05:52,000 --> 01:05:56,600 Speaker 1: a style in vehicle. So are you a car person 1091 01:05:57,000 --> 01:06:00,640 Speaker 1: or a music manager? First? Uh? I like to say 1092 01:06:00,680 --> 01:06:06,640 Speaker 1: I divide my time music eight percent, uh cars. So 1093 01:06:06,840 --> 01:06:10,720 Speaker 1: I have a fractured social life. My you know, my 1094 01:06:10,960 --> 01:06:14,480 Speaker 1: family is often piste off at me because I'm in right, 1095 01:06:14,600 --> 01:06:16,840 Speaker 1: I have to write, you know, at night or over 1096 01:06:16,920 --> 01:06:21,040 Speaker 1: the weekend to make it happen. But they actually dovetail 1097 01:06:21,240 --> 01:06:24,520 Speaker 1: really nicely. Um. I always remembered when I was managing 1098 01:06:24,600 --> 01:06:28,280 Speaker 1: okay go um we were at Capitol Records, and you know, 1099 01:06:28,920 --> 01:06:32,320 Speaker 1: the person who was really gonna make something happen was 1100 01:06:32,440 --> 01:06:35,760 Speaker 1: the then president, Andy Slayter, who was you know, friendly 1101 01:06:35,840 --> 01:06:39,560 Speaker 1: guy we uh we shared uh, a lawyer who was 1102 01:06:39,800 --> 01:06:42,280 Speaker 1: a dear friend of both of ours. But he, you know, 1103 01:06:42,440 --> 01:06:44,880 Speaker 1: he was a busy guy and and and had a 1104 01:06:44,960 --> 01:06:47,080 Speaker 1: lot of stuff to do. And you know, in the 1105 01:06:47,400 --> 01:06:50,400 Speaker 1: in the major label business, you know, how much attention 1106 01:06:50,440 --> 01:06:53,160 Speaker 1: and executive can pay to you is you know is 1107 01:06:53,520 --> 01:06:57,760 Speaker 1: you know, perhaps properly but but certainly typically is allocated 1108 01:06:57,840 --> 01:07:00,280 Speaker 1: based on like how many records have you sold? And 1109 01:07:00,760 --> 01:07:02,600 Speaker 1: if I just wanted to go in and talk to 1110 01:07:02,720 --> 01:07:07,120 Speaker 1: him about my band, I might not get that much time. 1111 01:07:07,480 --> 01:07:10,360 Speaker 1: But if I said, hey, Andy, you know at the 1112 01:07:10,440 --> 01:07:15,000 Speaker 1: new DV nine aston outside and uh we could, I 1113 01:07:15,040 --> 01:07:16,680 Speaker 1: could get him in the car for two or three 1114 01:07:16,760 --> 01:07:20,920 Speaker 1: hours and you know we could we could talk some business. Um. 1115 01:07:21,080 --> 01:07:24,960 Speaker 1: So that was often I found the job of the 1116 01:07:25,000 --> 01:07:29,280 Speaker 1: manager's figure out what floated somebody's boat, and some people 1117 01:07:29,360 --> 01:07:31,800 Speaker 1: were really into cars. And it was also just you know, 1118 01:07:31,920 --> 01:07:35,120 Speaker 1: convenient because like, uh, I'd be getting flown out to 1119 01:07:35,320 --> 01:07:37,000 Speaker 1: l A to a car launch and then I could 1120 01:07:37,040 --> 01:07:39,920 Speaker 1: go meet all the labels that I probably wouldn't have 1121 01:07:39,960 --> 01:07:41,880 Speaker 1: gotten to if it was up to my bands to 1122 01:07:42,320 --> 01:07:45,040 Speaker 1: buy me a ticket or for me to buy my Okay, 1123 01:07:45,080 --> 01:07:47,840 Speaker 1: so today, who are you working with? We're working with 1124 01:07:47,920 --> 01:07:51,520 Speaker 1: they might be giants. Um. We work with a band 1125 01:07:51,560 --> 01:07:56,160 Speaker 1: called the rad Traads, who are a rock and combo 1126 01:07:56,800 --> 01:08:00,960 Speaker 1: largely out of New York. Right now, Uh that two brothers, 1127 01:08:01,040 --> 01:08:05,440 Speaker 1: theve Adams um from Chicago. We were Cuban Americans or 1128 01:08:05,560 --> 01:08:08,560 Speaker 1: the the kind of it was. It was their thing. 1129 01:08:09,280 --> 01:08:14,600 Speaker 1: But um that's that's about it. Um and uh, I 1130 01:08:15,120 --> 01:08:17,559 Speaker 1: probably spend less time doing that, and the people who 1131 01:08:17,800 --> 01:08:21,560 Speaker 1: work in the management business spend more time doing a 1132 01:08:21,640 --> 01:08:24,160 Speaker 1: lot of that stuff, a lot of stuff, and managing 1133 01:08:24,240 --> 01:08:28,519 Speaker 1: bands is sort of ministerial. Um and uh I guess 1134 01:08:28,680 --> 01:08:35,000 Speaker 1: I realized that, um, I really didn't have anymore what 1135 01:08:35,160 --> 01:08:39,439 Speaker 1: it took to be going out to rock clubs at 1136 01:08:39,600 --> 01:08:42,439 Speaker 1: one o'clock in the morning and East Brooklyn to see 1137 01:08:42,800 --> 01:08:46,680 Speaker 1: bands that we're never gat a record deal, uh never 1138 01:08:46,760 --> 01:08:50,519 Speaker 1: gat a publishing deal. And uh you know that life 1139 01:08:50,760 --> 01:08:56,400 Speaker 1: was was you know, short enough that um I just 1140 01:08:56,640 --> 01:09:01,519 Speaker 1: I just didn't have, uh that that to break. So 1141 01:09:02,520 --> 01:09:05,800 Speaker 1: how did you get into music management to begin with? Um? 1142 01:09:06,160 --> 01:09:10,639 Speaker 1: I was um uh Well, the the short, long story 1143 01:09:10,760 --> 01:09:13,040 Speaker 1: is I went to an alternative high school, which was 1144 01:09:13,080 --> 01:09:15,720 Speaker 1: the thing in the seventies, sort of a hangover from 1145 01:09:15,800 --> 01:09:19,479 Speaker 1: Summer Hill and those experiments. And it was a public school, 1146 01:09:20,479 --> 01:09:24,040 Speaker 1: but we had classes. We had some core teachers, but 1147 01:09:24,120 --> 01:09:27,519 Speaker 1: we also had classes that were taught by townspeople in 1148 01:09:27,600 --> 01:09:30,519 Speaker 1: the town of Leoni in New Jersey. As it happened, 1149 01:09:30,560 --> 01:09:33,800 Speaker 1: the guy who a young or guy who rented the 1150 01:09:34,880 --> 01:09:38,160 Speaker 1: house the cottage behind the house that was next door, 1151 01:09:38,520 --> 01:09:43,400 Speaker 1: which was like a converted garage was a uh record 1152 01:09:43,760 --> 01:09:47,040 Speaker 1: uh a. And our guy at Columbia, his name was 1153 01:09:47,120 --> 01:09:51,880 Speaker 1: Tom Merman, who went on to be Mr Producer. Great 1154 01:09:52,200 --> 01:09:55,760 Speaker 1: she did Nugent now runs A B and B in Massachusetts. 1155 01:09:55,880 --> 01:10:00,240 Speaker 1: I've stayed there really Yeah, so in any case, he was, uh, 1156 01:10:01,040 --> 01:10:03,759 Speaker 1: we we did this class. This is probably in nineteen 1157 01:10:04,200 --> 01:10:07,320 Speaker 1: five or four, and um at the end of it, 1158 01:10:07,400 --> 01:10:10,080 Speaker 1: he said, you know, there's like sixteen kids in this class, 1159 01:10:10,120 --> 01:10:12,599 Speaker 1: and really only two of them have any business thinking 1160 01:10:12,600 --> 01:10:14,280 Speaker 1: about a career in the music business. But you're one 1161 01:10:14,320 --> 01:10:18,320 Speaker 1: of them. And uh so, um he was. He was 1162 01:10:18,360 --> 01:10:21,160 Speaker 1: sort of was like halfway between my parents age and me, 1163 01:10:21,439 --> 01:10:24,880 Speaker 1: and he was cool, you know, um and uh So. 1164 01:10:25,120 --> 01:10:26,840 Speaker 1: I sort of took that to heart and kind of 1165 01:10:26,960 --> 01:10:30,760 Speaker 1: kept my eyes and years open. I went I worked 1166 01:10:30,800 --> 01:10:32,640 Speaker 1: at newspapers for a couple of years. After I got 1167 01:10:32,680 --> 01:10:36,160 Speaker 1: out of college, I went to h law school, and 1168 01:10:36,920 --> 01:10:39,240 Speaker 1: I guess the summer my first year in law school, 1169 01:10:39,240 --> 01:10:42,240 Speaker 1: I was down in New York clerking um and uh 1170 01:10:42,360 --> 01:10:45,800 Speaker 1: for the state Attorney General and uh a friend of 1171 01:10:45,880 --> 01:10:49,479 Speaker 1: mine from college invited me to see this these guys. 1172 01:10:49,560 --> 01:10:51,400 Speaker 1: He was working with, and it was the band they 1173 01:10:51,520 --> 01:10:54,760 Speaker 1: might be Giants, who I thought were great. They were like, 1174 01:10:54,960 --> 01:10:56,920 Speaker 1: if you took away the guest list, there were negative 1175 01:10:57,000 --> 01:10:59,640 Speaker 1: three people. He was in Hell's Kitchen when it was 1176 01:10:59,720 --> 01:11:03,160 Speaker 1: really shitty and uh um. But they reminded me of 1177 01:11:03,280 --> 01:11:06,519 Speaker 1: the Everly Brothers. They sang incredible harmonies together, which was 1178 01:11:06,680 --> 01:11:08,920 Speaker 1: super uncool incidentally when I was in high school to 1179 01:11:08,960 --> 01:11:11,040 Speaker 1: be in the Everly Brothers, but I was. And I 1180 01:11:11,120 --> 01:11:13,640 Speaker 1: also liked the Four Seasons and the Bgs and some 1181 01:11:13,800 --> 01:11:17,680 Speaker 1: other things along with the more traditional fair um and 1182 01:11:18,000 --> 01:11:20,479 Speaker 1: so I was kind of a harmony guy and I 1183 01:11:20,520 --> 01:11:22,840 Speaker 1: could just see they had that, and so I sort 1184 01:11:22,880 --> 01:11:25,680 Speaker 1: of made it my business to befriend them, and over 1185 01:11:25,760 --> 01:11:28,320 Speaker 1: the next couple of years, while I was finishing law school, 1186 01:11:29,000 --> 01:11:31,360 Speaker 1: UM I would give them free legal advice. And because 1187 01:11:31,400 --> 01:11:34,080 Speaker 1: I sort of came from a media background, my dad 1188 01:11:34,280 --> 01:11:37,760 Speaker 1: was television critic in New York for thirty seven years, 1189 01:11:38,320 --> 01:11:41,760 Speaker 1: um I UM, and I had worked at newspapers. I 1190 01:11:41,840 --> 01:11:45,080 Speaker 1: sort of understood how press worked and stuff like that, 1191 01:11:45,160 --> 01:11:47,759 Speaker 1: and I kind of ended up getting like a permanent 1192 01:11:47,840 --> 01:11:50,280 Speaker 1: ability to put people on their guest list. And uh 1193 01:11:51,000 --> 01:11:54,160 Speaker 1: so I did that a lot and then while living 1194 01:11:54,200 --> 01:11:57,960 Speaker 1: the rest of my life. And then um, I I 1195 01:11:58,120 --> 01:12:01,000 Speaker 1: knew this guy. His name was Art Lugoff, who owned 1196 01:12:01,040 --> 01:12:04,040 Speaker 1: a great famous jazz club in New York called the 1197 01:12:04,080 --> 01:12:08,160 Speaker 1: Village Gate, and Um, he he was a neighbor and 1198 01:12:08,960 --> 01:12:11,280 Speaker 1: friends sort of friends with my parents from the kind 1199 01:12:11,320 --> 01:12:14,960 Speaker 1: of like kind of left journal scene in New York 1200 01:12:15,120 --> 01:12:18,519 Speaker 1: and the Village Gate in the middle late nine eighties 1201 01:12:18,760 --> 01:12:23,320 Speaker 1: was um suffering from the fact that interest in jazz 1202 01:12:23,400 --> 01:12:26,559 Speaker 1: had really was declining, and he'd have shows that were 1203 01:12:26,640 --> 01:12:28,920 Speaker 1: you know, I remember going to see the Dirty Dozen 1204 01:12:29,080 --> 01:12:33,280 Speaker 1: Brass Band there and there were you know, like fifteen 1205 01:12:33,360 --> 01:12:35,320 Speaker 1: Japanese tourists and me and my friend I was in. 1206 01:12:35,800 --> 01:12:37,800 Speaker 1: So he was he was like one day he's like, hey, kid, 1207 01:12:37,920 --> 01:12:40,240 Speaker 1: you know, if you if you didn't bring any in here, 1208 01:12:40,320 --> 01:12:42,240 Speaker 1: you know, give me five hundred bucks in the bar 1209 01:12:42,360 --> 01:12:45,719 Speaker 1: and it's yours. So I went to the Um John 1210 01:12:45,800 --> 01:12:48,120 Speaker 1: and John from the MP Giants and said like, uh, 1211 01:12:48,439 --> 01:12:50,759 Speaker 1: you know, we you know you're playing for a hundred 1212 01:12:50,800 --> 01:12:55,200 Speaker 1: people a night in the Um East Village you know often, UM, 1213 01:12:55,400 --> 01:12:57,479 Speaker 1: and you know you're you're selling out these shows, and 1214 01:12:57,560 --> 01:13:00,160 Speaker 1: I think we could make a move to the West Village. Mean, 1215 01:13:00,240 --> 01:13:03,840 Speaker 1: that's what a different time it was. And they they 1216 01:13:03,880 --> 01:13:06,000 Speaker 1: were like, you know, and and we could go do 1217 01:13:06,160 --> 01:13:08,439 Speaker 1: this show at the Village Gate and it wouldn't cost 1218 01:13:08,560 --> 01:13:10,680 Speaker 1: us but five hundred bucks and then the rest of 1219 01:13:10,680 --> 01:13:13,479 Speaker 1: the money's hours. And they were like, you know, you know, 1220 01:13:13,600 --> 01:13:15,040 Speaker 1: if you want to do that, you can do that, 1221 01:13:15,120 --> 01:13:16,800 Speaker 1: but we don't. We're not. We get a hundred and 1222 01:13:16,840 --> 01:13:20,000 Speaker 1: fifty dollars at night, that's their deal, and pay us 1223 01:13:20,000 --> 01:13:23,120 Speaker 1: a hundred fifty dollars and you know, you know, we'll 1224 01:13:23,200 --> 01:13:27,400 Speaker 1: do We'll show up. So we uh. They're live. Sound 1225 01:13:27,479 --> 01:13:30,120 Speaker 1: guy who was the friend who introduced me to them 1226 01:13:30,160 --> 01:13:32,720 Speaker 1: and who ended up producing their first records. He he 1227 01:13:32,840 --> 01:13:35,120 Speaker 1: agreed to go partner with me on this show and 1228 01:13:35,240 --> 01:13:37,800 Speaker 1: we we you know, we took ads uh and it 1229 01:13:37,880 --> 01:13:39,479 Speaker 1: was going well and then through no fall to our 1230 01:13:39,520 --> 01:13:42,400 Speaker 1: own um the New York Times wrote a preview story 1231 01:13:42,520 --> 01:13:46,400 Speaker 1: and we ended up um UM selling like, you know, 1232 01:13:46,520 --> 01:13:48,400 Speaker 1: eight hundred tickets and at the end of the night 1233 01:13:48,800 --> 01:13:52,000 Speaker 1: we were at backstage sitting there with um you know, 1234 01:13:52,240 --> 01:13:56,080 Speaker 1: thousands and thou eight thousand dollars, seven thousand dollars something 1235 01:13:56,160 --> 01:13:57,800 Speaker 1: like that, more money than I'd ever seen in my 1236 01:13:57,880 --> 01:14:01,320 Speaker 1: life in in cash and Uh. I was like, you guys, 1237 01:14:01,400 --> 01:14:04,080 Speaker 1: gotta take some of this money. And they were like, no, 1238 01:14:04,439 --> 01:14:06,360 Speaker 1: you know, we've made a deal. It's a hundred fifty 1239 01:14:06,360 --> 01:14:09,240 Speaker 1: dollars a night, which was very menshi of them. And 1240 01:14:09,640 --> 01:14:12,800 Speaker 1: uh for and we had done two shows and uh, 1241 01:14:13,120 --> 01:14:14,600 Speaker 1: but do you want to be a manager? And I 1242 01:14:14,720 --> 01:14:18,320 Speaker 1: was like, yes, I do. So I had recently, Um, 1243 01:14:18,439 --> 01:14:21,160 Speaker 1: I had clerk for a judge after law school. I 1244 01:14:21,720 --> 01:14:23,559 Speaker 1: was the clerk for the Chief Justice of the New 1245 01:14:23,640 --> 01:14:27,680 Speaker 1: Jersey Supreme Court, which was suddenly took a my mediocre 1246 01:14:27,800 --> 01:14:31,120 Speaker 1: law career and made me really employable. And I had 1247 01:14:31,840 --> 01:14:38,320 Speaker 1: the previous summer. Uh, Matt also started selling stories to 1248 01:14:38,320 --> 01:14:43,320 Speaker 1: Automobile Magazine and I had persuaded them then and their owner, 1249 01:14:43,400 --> 01:14:46,240 Speaker 1: Rupert Murdoch then to send me to every baseball park 1250 01:14:46,280 --> 01:14:48,720 Speaker 1: in America and at Corvette Roadster in the summer of 1251 01:14:49,120 --> 01:14:53,800 Speaker 1: eight six, culminating in uh the World Series between the 1252 01:14:53,960 --> 01:14:55,760 Speaker 1: Mats and the Red Sox, which I got to see 1253 01:14:55,800 --> 01:14:59,840 Speaker 1: it every game of which is awesome. I saw the 1254 01:15:00,120 --> 01:15:03,080 Speaker 1: your game. I was there. Uh and um. But in 1255 01:15:03,120 --> 01:15:05,920 Speaker 1: any case, UM, while I was doing that, I had 1256 01:15:06,000 --> 01:15:08,840 Speaker 1: this epiphany. I had accepted a job back in New 1257 01:15:08,920 --> 01:15:12,439 Speaker 1: York at a fancy firm, and I also accepted another 1258 01:15:12,560 --> 01:15:15,800 Speaker 1: job working for the new Jersey State Attorney General. And uh, 1259 01:15:15,960 --> 01:15:17,960 Speaker 1: I had to decide which when I was actually going 1260 01:15:18,040 --> 01:15:20,160 Speaker 1: a job for, and then it had an epiphany that 1261 01:15:20,200 --> 01:15:22,560 Speaker 1: I should show up for neither one. Pulled over the 1262 01:15:22,640 --> 01:15:25,439 Speaker 1: side of the road in Utah and called from They 1263 01:15:25,520 --> 01:15:27,599 Speaker 1: used to have pay phones that you could call from 1264 01:15:27,680 --> 01:15:30,320 Speaker 1: your car, low pay phones, and I called and I 1265 01:15:30,439 --> 01:15:32,840 Speaker 1: was like, I can't be there on Monday, and they 1266 01:15:32,880 --> 01:15:35,200 Speaker 1: were like what, and you know, they were like Tuesday. 1267 01:15:35,280 --> 01:15:37,559 Speaker 1: I was like, yeah, they were like Wednesday, and I think, 1268 01:15:37,600 --> 01:15:41,559 Speaker 1: you know, actually never, so I never uh took those jobs. 1269 01:15:41,640 --> 01:15:44,479 Speaker 1: I came back and within a few months I was 1270 01:15:44,720 --> 01:15:49,200 Speaker 1: managing them might be giants and that went so well that, uh, 1271 01:15:49,360 --> 01:15:52,880 Speaker 1: you know, I ended up managing bands, which had it 1272 01:15:52,960 --> 01:15:54,800 Speaker 1: not gone well, I would have been out of the 1273 01:15:54,880 --> 01:15:58,000 Speaker 1: music business probably, And uh, the great thing is is 1274 01:15:58,080 --> 01:16:01,200 Speaker 1: that they continued to do amazing. Well. They've just put 1275 01:16:01,240 --> 01:16:03,920 Speaker 1: a tour up which is their best quickest selling tour 1276 01:16:04,400 --> 01:16:07,720 Speaker 1: in their entire career, which is awesome. You know, they 1277 01:16:07,760 --> 01:16:10,760 Speaker 1: get you know, millions of streams a month, and uh, 1278 01:16:10,920 --> 01:16:13,080 Speaker 1: you know, they have the most uh, and that was 1279 01:16:13,280 --> 01:16:15,840 Speaker 1: sort of the inside I had about them was that 1280 01:16:15,920 --> 01:16:18,599 Speaker 1: they would have a career as long as they felt 1281 01:16:18,640 --> 01:16:22,120 Speaker 1: like having a career. And and they've at many stages, 1282 01:16:22,280 --> 01:16:26,160 Speaker 1: you know, I've not agreed necessarily with their choices, which 1283 01:16:26,200 --> 01:16:28,680 Speaker 1: they like. They were kind of things they could have 1284 01:16:28,760 --> 01:16:31,400 Speaker 1: done that were the conventional wisdom, you should do this, 1285 01:16:31,640 --> 01:16:34,400 Speaker 1: you should open for this shitty band because you'll get 1286 01:16:34,400 --> 01:16:36,800 Speaker 1: in front of you know, ten thousand people a night 1287 01:16:36,840 --> 01:16:39,680 Speaker 1: instead of one thousand or two thousand. And they just 1288 01:16:39,840 --> 01:16:42,880 Speaker 1: just did you know, they pleased themselves. They're they're really 1289 01:16:43,000 --> 01:16:44,720 Speaker 1: I mean, you're right about this all the time. But 1290 01:16:44,800 --> 01:16:47,840 Speaker 1: they were totally real artists and they didn't care. They 1291 01:16:47,920 --> 01:16:51,639 Speaker 1: weren't associated with any haircut or clothes style or stuff 1292 01:16:51,680 --> 01:16:53,560 Speaker 1: like that. So it was like they never wasn't like 1293 01:16:53,600 --> 01:16:55,040 Speaker 1: they were going to go out of style because they 1294 01:16:55,080 --> 01:16:58,360 Speaker 1: were an in style. And uh, they have a rabid 1295 01:16:58,439 --> 01:17:00,880 Speaker 1: fan base you know, around the world, so they you know, 1296 01:17:01,000 --> 01:17:05,519 Speaker 1: they tour Europe successfully, in Japan and Australia, and uh, 1297 01:17:06,200 --> 01:17:10,000 Speaker 1: it's been great. I've I've between that and writing about cars, 1298 01:17:10,080 --> 01:17:14,000 Speaker 1: I've seen the world and um, you know, I feel 1299 01:17:14,040 --> 01:17:19,440 Speaker 1: pretty great that it was like, you know, my personality development, 1300 01:17:19,720 --> 01:17:22,519 Speaker 1: Um kind of was arrested at the age of twelve, 1301 01:17:22,680 --> 01:17:25,599 Speaker 1: and I have been able to spend my life going 1302 01:17:25,640 --> 01:17:28,800 Speaker 1: to rock shows and um driving cars. So you know, 1303 01:17:29,439 --> 01:17:31,840 Speaker 1: I wish I was I was heavier. So you have 1304 01:17:32,120 --> 01:17:35,160 Speaker 1: like decades where they might be giants. That is rare. 1305 01:17:35,560 --> 01:17:38,280 Speaker 1: How come they didn't fire you or have never gone on. 1306 01:17:38,680 --> 01:17:42,320 Speaker 1: I think in part there because they you know, uh, 1307 01:17:42,720 --> 01:17:46,439 Speaker 1: we liked each other. But I think, uh, you know, 1308 01:17:46,640 --> 01:17:49,920 Speaker 1: I didn't really you know, make you know, like real 1309 01:17:50,160 --> 01:17:52,360 Speaker 1: prima Donna stands that if they didn't do what I 1310 01:17:52,760 --> 01:17:56,080 Speaker 1: wanted them to do. I think, you know, I was 1311 01:17:56,680 --> 01:17:58,840 Speaker 1: I was like there, Bill Barr, you know I did. 1312 01:17:59,000 --> 01:18:01,439 Speaker 1: I was there ko you know, I did what they 1313 01:18:01,520 --> 01:18:05,479 Speaker 1: wanted to get done. And um, I was good at 1314 01:18:05,520 --> 01:18:08,599 Speaker 1: the business part of it, having been to law school 1315 01:18:08,640 --> 01:18:12,040 Speaker 1: and knowing about licenses in the early days we were 1316 01:18:12,479 --> 01:18:15,240 Speaker 1: you know, it was in with with indie labels. Go 1317 01:18:15,360 --> 01:18:18,439 Speaker 1: like c D rights. No, it doesn't say in this 1318 01:18:18,560 --> 01:18:20,280 Speaker 1: contract that you have the right to make this new 1319 01:18:20,360 --> 01:18:22,439 Speaker 1: thing called a c D. And people go like what 1320 01:18:22,880 --> 01:18:24,880 Speaker 1: you know, and you go like, yeah, and I went 1321 01:18:24,960 --> 01:18:27,320 Speaker 1: to law school too, so I must be true and 1322 01:18:27,439 --> 01:18:30,040 Speaker 1: they go, oh, ship And I remember going to like 1323 01:18:30,200 --> 01:18:33,439 Speaker 1: rough trade in England to get their first album put overseas, 1324 01:18:33,479 --> 01:18:35,680 Speaker 1: and they were like, here's a contract you'll have. Your 1325 01:18:35,760 --> 01:18:37,479 Speaker 1: lawyer looked that. I was like, oh, I am a lawyer, 1326 01:18:37,560 --> 01:18:40,160 Speaker 1: and they'd go like, here, don't take this contract and 1327 01:18:41,320 --> 01:18:46,360 Speaker 1: so uh uh so we they were just uh uh 1328 01:18:46,600 --> 01:18:48,360 Speaker 1: So we were able to you know, back in the 1329 01:18:48,439 --> 01:18:50,479 Speaker 1: days where there were territories and things like that, we 1330 01:18:50,560 --> 01:18:52,840 Speaker 1: were able to license stuff over and over again. And 1331 01:18:52,920 --> 01:18:57,920 Speaker 1: I was also I think they're most ardent cheerleader. So 1332 01:18:58,200 --> 01:19:00,640 Speaker 1: you know when Birdhouse and Your Soul was it was 1333 01:19:00,680 --> 01:19:04,240 Speaker 1: a top ten hit in England, that was down to us. 1334 01:19:04,520 --> 01:19:06,840 Speaker 1: You know, it was down to it being a great song, 1335 01:19:07,240 --> 01:19:09,600 Speaker 1: but it wouldn't have been the only great song that 1336 01:19:09,760 --> 01:19:13,160 Speaker 1: got ignored before. Um and so that was something that 1337 01:19:13,520 --> 01:19:15,640 Speaker 1: I never worked with bands that I didn't like, but 1338 01:19:15,920 --> 01:19:18,719 Speaker 1: um uh, if I really believed in it, it would 1339 01:19:18,960 --> 01:19:21,760 Speaker 1: put me in a good position to advocate for it. 1340 01:19:21,880 --> 01:19:24,439 Speaker 1: So we managed the band the Laws that had the 1341 01:19:24,479 --> 01:19:26,880 Speaker 1: great hit there she goes. But and you know, I 1342 01:19:27,040 --> 01:19:30,200 Speaker 1: really liked the president of London Records. He's a great guy, 1343 01:19:30,600 --> 01:19:33,640 Speaker 1: but he was like, how do I know this? It 1344 01:19:33,760 --> 01:19:37,400 Speaker 1: wasn't Roger was actually a gentleman named Peter Cupkey still 1345 01:19:37,560 --> 01:19:39,920 Speaker 1: who's sweet guy actually had tried to side the name 1346 01:19:39,960 --> 01:19:43,400 Speaker 1: of Giants to Atlantic and um, but he was you know, 1347 01:19:43,560 --> 01:19:47,000 Speaker 1: he was necessarily nervous because that was the mood at 1348 01:19:47,280 --> 01:19:48,920 Speaker 1: PolyGram and he was like, well, how do I know 1349 01:19:49,040 --> 01:19:51,280 Speaker 1: it's It's like, how do you know it's a hit? 1350 01:19:51,400 --> 01:19:53,599 Speaker 1: I mean like, this is probably one of the greatest 1351 01:19:53,640 --> 01:19:56,519 Speaker 1: songs ever and it's of course it's a hit, and 1352 01:19:56,640 --> 01:19:59,439 Speaker 1: it's already hit in England, so like, you know, that's 1353 01:19:59,479 --> 01:20:02,280 Speaker 1: pretty easy to figure out. And so yeah, and it 1354 01:20:02,760 --> 01:20:04,760 Speaker 1: was a hit and not as big a hit as 1355 01:20:04,760 --> 01:20:07,640 Speaker 1: it should have been, but uh, because they didn't want 1356 01:20:07,680 --> 01:20:09,840 Speaker 1: to spend the money on top forty radio and stuff 1357 01:20:09,840 --> 01:20:12,760 Speaker 1: like that. And of course the laws were insane themselves, 1358 01:20:13,160 --> 01:20:17,360 Speaker 1: but which didn't make it any easier. But that was 1359 01:20:17,600 --> 01:20:21,600 Speaker 1: you know, I mean like believing in something. Uh is 1360 01:20:21,760 --> 01:20:24,479 Speaker 1: you know that that right off the bat makes the 1361 01:20:24,760 --> 01:20:30,479 Speaker 1: difference between of effective manager and ineffective one. I think, Um, 1362 01:20:31,479 --> 01:20:34,479 Speaker 1: they you know, but they were the John's were always uh, 1363 01:20:34,920 --> 01:20:36,479 Speaker 1: you know, we worked with a lot of great bands. 1364 01:20:36,520 --> 01:20:39,599 Speaker 1: We've managed the Meat Puppets and Yola Tango and uh, 1365 01:20:39,720 --> 01:20:42,400 Speaker 1: the Laws we did Edwyn Collins when he had to 1366 01:20:42,479 --> 01:20:45,040 Speaker 1: hit the United States. We just looked after him in 1367 01:20:45,080 --> 01:20:48,400 Speaker 1: the States, and uh Fredy Johnston, who was great. And 1368 01:20:48,880 --> 01:20:50,479 Speaker 1: so why is it in because you know, for most 1369 01:20:50,560 --> 01:20:55,400 Speaker 1: managers it ends at some point, what's what happens there? Uh? Well, uh, 1370 01:20:55,720 --> 01:21:02,719 Speaker 1: in a couple of cases, Uh, basically, uh, people decided 1371 01:21:02,760 --> 01:21:06,760 Speaker 1: to manage themselves. Uh. Really a terrible mistake. I mean 1372 01:21:07,200 --> 01:21:10,759 Speaker 1: I'm always like, you know what, like find another manager, 1373 01:21:10,840 --> 01:21:12,920 Speaker 1: Let's find you a good manager that you like better. 1374 01:21:13,320 --> 01:21:16,760 Speaker 1: But h but don't not manage yourself. That's you know, 1375 01:21:16,920 --> 01:21:19,360 Speaker 1: it's just like the the if a manager is not 1376 01:21:19,560 --> 01:21:24,760 Speaker 1: making their fifteen or uh for you, you know, it's 1377 01:21:24,800 --> 01:21:27,400 Speaker 1: like it's rare. I mean, that would be a really 1378 01:21:27,479 --> 01:21:30,360 Speaker 1: bad All it takes is somebody to call up and say, 1379 01:21:30,439 --> 01:21:32,800 Speaker 1: you know for a baby band, you know, you want 1380 01:21:32,880 --> 01:21:34,720 Speaker 1: five hundred bucks for this gig, or we'll give you 1381 01:21:34,800 --> 01:21:37,519 Speaker 1: five hundred bucks. You get it up to seven fifty dollars, 1382 01:21:37,560 --> 01:21:40,599 Speaker 1: you've paid for your commission and then so uh, it's 1383 01:21:40,840 --> 01:21:44,439 Speaker 1: it's really shortsighted. There's also too many jobs for a 1384 01:21:44,560 --> 01:21:48,240 Speaker 1: band to do. If if they think that they have 1385 01:21:48,400 --> 01:21:51,280 Speaker 1: the time to keep their books and to book their 1386 01:21:51,320 --> 01:21:56,200 Speaker 1: gigs and do all this ministerial work that is, you know, 1387 01:21:56,360 --> 01:21:58,920 Speaker 1: get the visas and stuff like that. Then you know, 1388 01:21:59,120 --> 01:22:02,040 Speaker 1: that is anti art, that's the anti creativity. And so 1389 01:22:02,200 --> 01:22:04,439 Speaker 1: that was one of the things with the Johnson I 1390 01:22:04,560 --> 01:22:07,120 Speaker 1: think they were I was liberating to them, is I 1391 01:22:07,200 --> 01:22:10,120 Speaker 1: was like, quit your fucking jobs, you know, like that 1392 01:22:10,280 --> 01:22:12,200 Speaker 1: was like the first thing that they did when they 1393 01:22:12,240 --> 01:22:16,040 Speaker 1: got a manager, even though they had been successfully running 1394 01:22:16,080 --> 01:22:20,760 Speaker 1: their own operation. That's one reason that it kept going 1395 01:22:20,880 --> 01:22:24,640 Speaker 1: is that, I mean, they're both like brilliant guys, but um, 1396 01:22:25,400 --> 01:22:27,400 Speaker 1: one of them in particular was just like I mean, 1397 01:22:27,560 --> 01:22:33,760 Speaker 1: he he was indefatigable and and they really really wanted it, 1398 01:22:34,080 --> 01:22:36,560 Speaker 1: and he and they wanted it on their terms. And 1399 01:22:37,120 --> 01:22:40,040 Speaker 1: when I meet bands where there's no you know, but 1400 01:22:40,240 --> 01:22:44,800 Speaker 1: nobody has megalomaniacal tendencies, nobody thinks that the world will 1401 01:22:44,840 --> 01:22:47,600 Speaker 1: be a sadder place if they're not in front of 1402 01:22:47,640 --> 01:22:51,080 Speaker 1: three thousand people or ten thousand people, you know, shaking 1403 01:22:51,120 --> 01:22:54,240 Speaker 1: their ass um then there's a band that's probably not 1404 01:22:54,360 --> 01:22:57,560 Speaker 1: going anywhere. You know. It takes that in in so 1405 01:22:57,720 --> 01:23:01,080 Speaker 1: many areas of life, somebody who really really really really 1406 01:23:01,160 --> 01:23:03,720 Speaker 1: really cares and they don't if you want to tell 1407 01:23:03,760 --> 01:23:06,519 Speaker 1: me I suck. You know you're wrong. You know I'll 1408 01:23:06,560 --> 01:23:09,640 Speaker 1: prove to you you're wrong. And that's you know, obviously, 1409 01:23:10,280 --> 01:23:13,760 Speaker 1: being on kind of a left of center artists, there's 1410 01:23:13,800 --> 01:23:15,439 Speaker 1: lots of people who want to tell you you suck, 1411 01:23:15,520 --> 01:23:19,760 Speaker 1: even when you know minutes after they tell you that 1412 01:23:20,280 --> 01:23:23,280 Speaker 1: they did it. You know, I remember trying to sign 1413 01:23:23,360 --> 01:23:25,479 Speaker 1: them to a major label after they've had success at 1414 01:23:25,479 --> 01:23:28,599 Speaker 1: alternative radio and MTV and people calling, oh, those guys, 1415 01:23:28,680 --> 01:23:31,080 Speaker 1: I I love them even when I hated them, you know, 1416 01:23:31,360 --> 01:23:36,640 Speaker 1: or uh and so yeah, okay, before we go, just 1417 01:23:36,720 --> 01:23:41,360 Speaker 1: a couple of quick car questions. Bentley's Rolls Royce worth 1418 01:23:41,479 --> 01:23:45,280 Speaker 1: it unique cars basically gussied up Volkswagen. What do we 1419 01:23:45,320 --> 01:23:48,760 Speaker 1: got there? Well, I mean they are, uh well, Rolls 1420 01:23:48,880 --> 01:23:52,400 Speaker 1: Royce is a gussied at BMW and Bentley's guess a 1421 01:23:52,439 --> 01:23:55,240 Speaker 1: volks It. The thing is is that Volkswagen and BMW 1422 01:23:55,479 --> 01:24:00,200 Speaker 1: are you know, among, if not the greatest UH car 1423 01:24:00,280 --> 01:24:03,479 Speaker 1: companies in the world, and so their technology when they 1424 01:24:03,600 --> 01:24:06,800 Speaker 1: let you pull out all the stops is pretty awesome. Um, 1425 01:24:07,080 --> 01:24:10,800 Speaker 1: you know, it's it's it's sort of perverse that these 1426 01:24:10,840 --> 01:24:15,960 Speaker 1: two English companies were bought by Germans, right, uh, but 1427 01:24:16,360 --> 01:24:21,120 Speaker 1: and they very much um, you know, try to preserve 1428 01:24:21,360 --> 01:24:23,800 Speaker 1: parts of their Britishness. But at the same time, you know, 1429 01:24:23,960 --> 01:24:26,120 Speaker 1: you feel German all over them, which is you know, 1430 01:24:26,520 --> 01:24:28,920 Speaker 1: that's really no bad thing. But as I say, for 1431 01:24:29,120 --> 01:24:32,320 Speaker 1: your money, are you getting something? No, I think really 1432 01:24:33,000 --> 01:24:35,760 Speaker 1: somewhere probably now I used to say fifty thousand, but 1433 01:24:35,840 --> 01:24:38,240 Speaker 1: now it's probably more like seventy or eighty thousand. You 1434 01:24:38,360 --> 01:24:42,920 Speaker 1: stop really getting any benefit other than whatever the perceived 1435 01:24:43,120 --> 01:24:47,439 Speaker 1: status advantages or things like that. Okay, let's go to 1436 01:24:47,520 --> 01:24:52,000 Speaker 1: the other end. The Ferraris, Lamborghinis, McLaren's. What's the best 1437 01:24:52,080 --> 01:24:57,160 Speaker 1: of that? ILK, I probably, I probably like the Ferraris 1438 01:24:57,200 --> 01:25:00,960 Speaker 1: the best. But they're all so much more competent and 1439 01:25:01,200 --> 01:25:03,240 Speaker 1: and reliable and safe than they were. But they're just 1440 01:25:03,400 --> 01:25:06,120 Speaker 1: you know, uh, to me, they don't they're not really 1441 01:25:06,280 --> 01:25:09,519 Speaker 1: what UM turns me on and I find as there. 1442 01:25:09,840 --> 01:25:12,519 Speaker 1: You know, they used to be quite rare, and now 1443 01:25:12,880 --> 01:25:15,640 Speaker 1: you know they they've been bought by companies that have 1444 01:25:15,840 --> 01:25:18,200 Speaker 1: the ability to sell five thousand of them a year 1445 01:25:18,200 --> 01:25:21,040 Speaker 1: instead of you know, three hundred or nine hundred or 1446 01:25:21,080 --> 01:25:24,760 Speaker 1: two thousand. UM that they're they're common and to me 1447 01:25:24,960 --> 01:25:29,640 Speaker 1: they're just kind of a little embarrassing. Um. The I 1448 01:25:29,800 --> 01:25:33,519 Speaker 1: was in Hamburg with a friend who's a car guy 1449 01:25:33,560 --> 01:25:35,599 Speaker 1: who's driving me around, and he said, I'm gonna take 1450 01:25:35,640 --> 01:25:38,960 Speaker 1: you to Russian Street and I was like, what's Russian Street. 1451 01:25:39,000 --> 01:25:41,639 Speaker 1: He's the street where all the Lamborghinis are. And they're 1452 01:25:41,680 --> 01:25:46,200 Speaker 1: all these you know, like you know, rich Russians, you know, 1453 01:25:46,320 --> 01:25:49,360 Speaker 1: and you know, hanging out in front of their Lamborghinis 1454 01:25:49,640 --> 01:25:52,000 Speaker 1: and they did you know, and you see that in London, 1455 01:25:52,320 --> 01:25:54,840 Speaker 1: um on the Edgeware Road, you see, you know, the 1456 01:25:55,120 --> 01:25:59,840 Speaker 1: the mirror plated Lamborghinis and and uh Ferraris and you 1457 01:26:00,000 --> 01:26:03,280 Speaker 1: know it's just you know, it's just it's just vulgar 1458 01:26:03,439 --> 01:26:09,000 Speaker 1: really to me. But you know, I I celebrate automotive diversity, 1459 01:26:09,120 --> 01:26:11,320 Speaker 1: and you know, I think whatever people want to do, 1460 01:26:12,120 --> 01:26:14,840 Speaker 1: you know, uh, for the time being, that's what they 1461 01:26:14,880 --> 01:26:17,759 Speaker 1: ought to do, you know, any future for Aston Martin 1462 01:26:18,040 --> 01:26:19,960 Speaker 1: Busin this week this week we're just talking about the 1463 01:26:20,040 --> 01:26:23,600 Speaker 1: stock is. Yeah. Well, you know it's it's they have 1464 01:26:23,720 --> 01:26:28,519 Speaker 1: a really bold plan, which is you know, one part real, 1465 01:26:28,760 --> 01:26:33,439 Speaker 1: you know, two parts fairy dust. So uh, I think 1466 01:26:33,479 --> 01:26:37,120 Speaker 1: they're they're smart guys, and you know, it's really it's 1467 01:26:37,560 --> 01:26:41,479 Speaker 1: given how you know, you know, all these companies like 1468 01:26:41,600 --> 01:26:43,760 Speaker 1: to the fact that they survived. I've survived. Aston Martin 1469 01:26:43,800 --> 01:26:46,560 Speaker 1: has been around almost a hundred years and you know 1470 01:26:46,680 --> 01:26:50,160 Speaker 1: they've never sold that many cars, Uh, is a miracle 1471 01:26:50,320 --> 01:26:52,800 Speaker 1: and um and so you know, I kind of wish 1472 01:26:52,920 --> 01:26:56,360 Speaker 1: them all the best. Building a brand that that means anything, 1473 01:26:56,760 --> 01:27:00,320 Speaker 1: you know, that's that's a multibillion dollar undertaking. If you 1474 01:27:00,360 --> 01:27:03,320 Speaker 1: were to try now, you know, twenty billion dollars wouldn't 1475 01:27:03,320 --> 01:27:06,040 Speaker 1: be even to begin to be enough to to actually 1476 01:27:06,200 --> 01:27:08,640 Speaker 1: make a brand that anyone cared about. And then you 1477 01:27:08,720 --> 01:27:10,559 Speaker 1: know they wouldn't care about it the way they care 1478 01:27:10,600 --> 01:27:13,200 Speaker 1: about Aston Martin. So I always say brand is a 1479 01:27:13,320 --> 01:27:16,400 Speaker 1: terrible thing to waste, and I think that, um, they 1480 01:27:16,800 --> 01:27:20,439 Speaker 1: you know, I wish them every success. And you know, 1481 01:27:20,560 --> 01:27:24,160 Speaker 1: the difficulty is is that as technology changes that the 1482 01:27:24,360 --> 01:27:29,640 Speaker 1: investments that are required to be relevant are phenomenal. So 1483 01:27:29,760 --> 01:27:32,080 Speaker 1: what you see, you know, Aston has partnered a lot 1484 01:27:32,160 --> 01:27:34,840 Speaker 1: with Mercedes to use a lot of their engines and 1485 01:27:35,000 --> 01:27:37,960 Speaker 1: you know, various things and when it comes to autonomous 1486 01:27:38,040 --> 01:27:40,720 Speaker 1: cars and electric power, so you're gonna see I think, 1487 01:27:40,840 --> 01:27:43,880 Speaker 1: you know, though, they will become effectively parts of bigger 1488 01:27:43,920 --> 01:27:48,360 Speaker 1: cod Okay, what's the next merger. Well, the one that is, 1489 01:27:48,680 --> 01:27:51,760 Speaker 1: it's been they're working towards it is the U P 1490 01:27:52,040 --> 01:27:55,160 Speaker 1: s A, which is Burgo and f C A, which 1491 01:27:55,280 --> 01:27:59,439 Speaker 1: is Fiat Chrysler. So P s A is now UH 1492 01:27:59,520 --> 01:28:04,599 Speaker 1: Persia Sito and um um Opal which they bought from 1493 01:28:04,640 --> 01:28:09,040 Speaker 1: General Motors and ironically um it turned to profit after 1494 01:28:09,160 --> 01:28:13,120 Speaker 1: twenty losing years within six months of being got uh 1495 01:28:13,280 --> 01:28:16,760 Speaker 1: so um that that's going to be a big one. 1496 01:28:16,800 --> 01:28:20,599 Speaker 1: That will create the world's fourth largest carmaker. That's exciting 1497 01:28:20,720 --> 01:28:24,640 Speaker 1: to contemplate for fans of any of those brands that 1498 01:28:25,040 --> 01:28:27,280 Speaker 1: are are planning to come back to the United States. 1499 01:28:27,920 --> 01:28:29,880 Speaker 1: Um okay, but it's like, say, well, we see further 1500 01:28:30,000 --> 01:28:33,200 Speaker 1: and further consolidation. I think we will. In Japan, there's 1501 01:28:33,320 --> 01:28:39,240 Speaker 1: pretty much the Toyota orbit, which is UM Toyota, Subaru, 1502 01:28:40,200 --> 01:28:43,200 Speaker 1: uh Suzuki I think is working with them, and UH 1503 01:28:44,160 --> 01:28:46,559 Speaker 1: Mazda is also doing a lot of stuff with Toyota. 1504 01:28:46,560 --> 01:28:49,200 Speaker 1: And then there's the Nissan world, which is Nissan and Mitsubishi, 1505 01:28:49,880 --> 01:28:54,040 Speaker 1: UM and UH. I think that those companies could end 1506 01:28:54,160 --> 01:28:58,200 Speaker 1: up being intertwined more. And I think that, yeah, I 1507 01:28:58,280 --> 01:29:01,559 Speaker 1: think that that we could see. I think it wouldn't 1508 01:29:01,560 --> 01:29:04,040 Speaker 1: be the weirdest thing in the world to see the 1509 01:29:04,120 --> 01:29:07,320 Speaker 1: American companies end up merging with somebody else. I think 1510 01:29:07,360 --> 01:29:11,120 Speaker 1: they should survive. Okay, lightning round, don't don't evade this 1511 01:29:12,439 --> 01:29:17,519 Speaker 1: small car. What do you recommend? Well, I like the golfs, 1512 01:29:18,520 --> 01:29:21,479 Speaker 1: even though they're canceling the regular golf for America. Okay, 1513 01:29:21,600 --> 01:29:28,679 Speaker 1: that's any answer. Next step up Sedan Oh uh gag 1514 01:29:29,479 --> 01:29:32,000 Speaker 1: uh in the in the low priced realm. I like 1515 01:29:32,160 --> 01:29:36,639 Speaker 1: Monster six is um in higher priced realm, I would 1516 01:29:36,680 --> 01:29:41,799 Speaker 1: be happy with Hey, probably with the E class Mercedes. Okay, 1517 01:29:42,800 --> 01:29:50,879 Speaker 1: more luxurious. Um. I really liked the X Jays Jaguar, 1518 01:29:51,000 --> 01:29:53,839 Speaker 1: which is also canceled but coming back as an electric 1519 01:29:53,920 --> 01:29:57,680 Speaker 1: car in a year or two. But more luxurious than that. 1520 01:30:00,040 --> 01:30:04,000 Speaker 1: He's he's he's uh no in that category. Other than 1521 01:30:04,080 --> 01:30:09,080 Speaker 1: the jack Bars, it's more like serious. Uh. Oh golly, um, 1522 01:30:12,000 --> 01:30:15,559 Speaker 1: I wish I was more inspired right now, I can't. 1523 01:30:15,920 --> 01:30:27,479 Speaker 1: I can't say I'm not. I'm not really um um, Well, 1524 01:30:27,479 --> 01:30:31,080 Speaker 1: I would never see myself only one. Uh. There's something 1525 01:30:31,120 --> 01:30:34,160 Speaker 1: about the Rolls Royce Phantom that I find. It's it's 1526 01:30:34,200 --> 01:30:38,160 Speaker 1: more bespoke than the Bentley's So I sort of prefer that, 1527 01:30:38,479 --> 01:30:42,600 Speaker 1: and it's getting redone any second. Uh, But so I 1528 01:30:42,640 --> 01:30:45,160 Speaker 1: would say, you know, for the for the big fuck 1529 01:30:45,240 --> 01:30:48,679 Speaker 1: you car, I'd say, there's you know, nothing says fuck 1530 01:30:48,760 --> 01:30:51,600 Speaker 1: you quite so loudly as a phantom. And there we 1531 01:30:51,760 --> 01:30:57,320 Speaker 1: have it. Jamie Kentman, automobile expert music manager for decades. Jamie, 1532 01:30:57,320 --> 01:31:00,320 Speaker 1: thanks so much for being Until next time, it's Bob 1533 01:31:00,439 --> 01:31:00,720 Speaker 1: left S