WEBVTT - Myanmar: Printing the Revolution, Part Two

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<v Speaker 1>Hey, everybody, I'm Robert Evans and this is me and

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<v Speaker 1>mar printing The Revolution Part two. Since the dawn of firearms,

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<v Speaker 1>regular people all over the world have had the same

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<v Speaker 1>basic idea, maybe if I made myself a gun, the

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<v Speaker 1>government wouldn't be able to be such a dick to me. Historically,

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<v Speaker 1>this has had little impact on the willingness of governments

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<v Speaker 1>to be dicks to people. In the beginning, all gun

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<v Speaker 1>manufacturing was done by individual artisans, and thus making a

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<v Speaker 1>gun in your home was really no different from making

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<v Speaker 1>it in a shop, as long as you had the

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<v Speaker 1>proper tools. Guns in this period weren't super useful on

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<v Speaker 1>their own and were best fired in a volley by

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<v Speaker 1>a shitload of dudes at once. Since individual firearms were

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<v Speaker 1>extremely inaccurate and cumbersome to use, the fact that some

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<v Speaker 1>poor blacksmith could make himself one wasn't much of a

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<v Speaker 1>threat to anybody in power. It did mean that battlefield

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<v Speaker 1>prowess came from large blocks of trained soldiers, not fuel

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<v Speaker 1>lords on horseback rallying untrained peasants. This change in technology

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<v Speaker 1>led to a change in warfare and helped to change society.

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<v Speaker 1>As firearms evolved and became these central weapons of battle.

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<v Speaker 1>They required more intense tooling and more expensive manufacturing capacity.

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<v Speaker 1>Nations and peoples without the know how our infrastructure were

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<v Speaker 1>at a tremendous disadvantage. As soon as this situation came

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<v Speaker 1>into being, these unfortunate communities set to work finding ways

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<v Speaker 1>to gain the advantages of firearms without the manufacturing capacity

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<v Speaker 1>their foes enjoyed. Indigenous cannons and regions resisting imperialism often

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<v Speaker 1>consisted of composite materials less sturdy than bronze or iron.

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<v Speaker 1>In the sixteen hundreds and seventeen hundreds, Indigenous Americans in

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<v Speaker 1>South America used wooden cannons to fight against Spanish and

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<v Speaker 1>Portuguese conquerors. The Vietnamese used wooden cannons to resist the

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<v Speaker 1>French during the Cochin China Campaign of eighteen sixty two.

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<v Speaker 1>American Indians used wooden artillery to blast settler fortifications in

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<v Speaker 1>the seventeen hundreds and eighteen hundreds. In the months that

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<v Speaker 1>led up to the outbreak of the Revolutionary War, the

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<v Speaker 1>men who fought to create the United States busy themselves

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<v Speaker 1>building rifles and cannons in their homes and communities to

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<v Speaker 1>resist the English. This trend has never really stopped in warfare.

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<v Speaker 1>The day before we recorded this, James, my partner in

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<v Speaker 1>this series, sent me a screen grab from a live

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<v Speaker 1>stream of someone in Ukraine printing pieces for AK forty

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<v Speaker 1>sevens on a three D printer. Firearms manufactured outside the

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<v Speaker 1>arms industry have played a role in every conflict of

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<v Speaker 1>the modern era, but as you probably guessed, they have

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<v Speaker 1>had the greatest influence in the little wars of colonialism.

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<v Speaker 2>European nations rarely allowed any sort of firearms ownership in

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<v Speaker 2>their colonies except the individuals and ethnic groups that adopted

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<v Speaker 2>its local enforces. Since most of these places had never

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<v Speaker 2>developed their own industrial base from arms industry, colonial rebellions

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<v Speaker 2>often relied on homemade weapons in their early stages, along

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<v Speaker 2>with modern firearms pilfered by deserting local soldiers. Where domestic

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<v Speaker 2>productive capacity existed, European colonizing nations went out of their

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<v Speaker 2>way to relocate it, along with the profit it generation,

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<v Speaker 2>to the metropol All were reflected on this in his

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<v Speaker 2>novel Burmese Days, saying in the eighteenth century, the Indians

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<v Speaker 2>cast guns that are at any rate up to the

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<v Speaker 2>European standard. Now, after we've been in India one hundred

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<v Speaker 2>and fifty years. You can't make so much as a

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<v Speaker 2>brass cartridge case in the whole continent. Meanwhile, among the colonizers,

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<v Speaker 2>being armed became almost a synonym for being a man.

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<v Speaker 2>This was particularly true for the colonial police forces and militaries,

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<v Speaker 2>but it was also true domestically. Most people are broadly

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<v Speaker 2>familiar with the u S. Second Amendment the robust gun

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<v Speaker 2>culture that it's spawned, but during the heighther colonialism, English

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<v Speaker 2>citizens are also free to arm themselves. In nineteen hundred,

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<v Speaker 2>Prime Minister Robert Gascoigne, Cecil Marquis of Salisbury, gave a

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<v Speaker 2>speech in which he claimed he would laud the day

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<v Speaker 2>when there was a rifle in every cottage. In England,

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<v Speaker 2>firearms were utterly and restricted at this point. The first

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<v Speaker 2>chaine to this came in nineteen oh three with the

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<v Speaker 2>first law that required a permit to carry a handgun

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<v Speaker 2>and restricted children from buying guns. Still, firearms were widely

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<v Speaker 2>available until a red panic gripped the nation in nineteen

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<v Speaker 2>nineteen following the Bolshevik Revolution in Russia. Across the ocean

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<v Speaker 2>in Spain, where firearms ownership was less strictly restricted, where

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<v Speaker 2>orwell himself would learn what it was to fire a

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<v Speaker 2>rifle at someone who shot back. Armed unions and working

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<v Speaker 2>people served as the only bullwark to a military coup.

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<v Speaker 2>In nineteen thirty six, in Madrid, one officer opened his

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<v Speaker 2>armory to the union militias, but another refused to hand

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<v Speaker 2>over for the bolts for the guns they had been issued.

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<v Speaker 2>In Barcelona, where the anarchist left had a long tradition

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<v Speaker 2>of armed political violence, the coup was repelled by workers

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<v Speaker 2>with guns, and a general leading troops there was imprisoned

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<v Speaker 2>and executed. The same pattern played out all across the

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<v Speaker 2>country in July nineteen thirty six, when the military rose

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<v Speaker 2>up to topple the elected government. In the cities where

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<v Speaker 2>the government opened the armories to the people, the coup

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<v Speaker 2>was repelled. In the cities where the government did not,

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<v Speaker 2>the coup succeeded. Reflecting on this in nineteen forty one,

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<v Speaker 2>or w Wait, the totalitarian state can do great things,

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<v Speaker 2>but there is one thing they cannot do. They cannot

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<v Speaker 2>give the factory work or a rifle and tell him

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<v Speaker 2>to take it home and keep it in his bedroom.

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<v Speaker 2>That rifle on the wall of the labourer's cottage or

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<v Speaker 2>working class flat is a symbol of democracy. It's a

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<v Speaker 2>job to see that it stays there.

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<v Speaker 1>Despite Orwell's please. The years that followed the Second World

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<v Speaker 1>War led to greater restrictions of the ability of the

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<v Speaker 1>public to arm itself. By the nineteen fifties, carrying any

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<v Speaker 1>weapon for self defense was illegal. Semi automatic center fire

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<v Speaker 1>arms were banned in nineteen eighty eight, and pistols were

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<v Speaker 1>banned in nineteen ninety six after a mass shooting killed

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<v Speaker 1>sixteen children in Dunblane. This was all utterly infuriating to

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<v Speaker 1>a man named Philip A.

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<v Speaker 3>Looty.

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<v Speaker 1>Loody, born in nineteen sixty five grew up on a

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<v Speaker 1>farm in West Yorkshire, England. We don't have a tremendous

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<v Speaker 1>amount of detail about his upbringing, but by the time

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<v Speaker 1>he was in his early thirties he'd become a committed

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<v Speaker 1>crusader for an unrestricted right to bear arms. A skilled

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<v Speaker 1>machinist with a well equipped shop, Loody began the long

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<v Speaker 1>process of learning how to craft homemade firearms. Soon he

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<v Speaker 1>was building semi and fully automatic weapons. Now these were

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<v Speaker 1>not military grade firearms. The barrels were unrifled, which made

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<v Speaker 1>them terribly inaccurate, but every piece could be crafted from

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<v Speaker 1>widely available things like sheet metal, washers and screws. The

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<v Speaker 1>person assembling a looty gun would need to be a

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<v Speaker 1>skilled craftsman, but they would not need access to welding rigs, forges,

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<v Speaker 1>or rather expensive industrial equipment. Loody published a book Expedient

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<v Speaker 1>Homemade Firearms, The nine millimeters Submachine Gun in nineteen ninety

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<v Speaker 1>eight through Paladin Press. In the late nineteen nineties, Paladin

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<v Speaker 1>was one one of the places you could go to

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<v Speaker 1>mail order fringe political literature and guides for stuff like

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<v Speaker 1>trapping human beings or disabling the drive system of an

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<v Speaker 1>Abrams tank in the United States. Nothing about Loudy's book

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<v Speaker 1>was or is illegal, but Phil didn't live in the

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<v Speaker 1>United States. He was arrested several times, starting in the

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<v Speaker 1>late nineteen nineties when a pair of illegal home built

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<v Speaker 1>guns were found on his property. Ludy spent the rest

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<v Speaker 1>of his life, which ended in twenty eleven, operating a

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<v Speaker 1>website where he raged against gun control. His main argument

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<v Speaker 1>was that England was headed for totalitarianism, and like Orwell,

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<v Speaker 1>he believed only public ownership of arms could prevent this.

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<v Speaker 1>Unlike Orwell, Ludy was firmly on the right wing. He

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<v Speaker 1>traced society's problems to quote a combination of political correctness

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<v Speaker 1>and anti freedom of speech laws legislation governing how we

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<v Speaker 1>speak about such subjects as religion or a person's race

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<v Speaker 1>being just two examples. Words and phrases that have been

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<v Speaker 1>used for centuries without malice are now insipid in people's mouths,

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<v Speaker 1>said to cause a fence by those very same speech police, who,

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<v Speaker 1>on the other hand, turned a blind eye to the violence,

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<v Speaker 1>foul language, and sexual references blasted daily through our TV

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<v Speaker 1>sets of phenomenon that really does cause a fence to

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<v Speaker 1>many people. Luti never succeeded in sparking a renaissance and

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<v Speaker 1>civilian arms ownership in the UK, but his ideas were

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<v Speaker 1>adopted by organized criminal groups all around the world. In Brazil,

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<v Speaker 1>looty guns can go for as much as twenty five

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<v Speaker 1>hundred dollars. From twenty eleven to twenty twelve, nearly half

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<v Speaker 1>of the submachine guns seized by police in Sao Paulo

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<v Speaker 1>were homemade. Most of these arms were certainly used as

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<v Speaker 1>tools by drug dealers or other gangsters, but some of

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<v Speaker 1>them were surely also the tools of citizens who simply

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<v Speaker 1>sought a way to defend themselves in a place with

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<v Speaker 1>no real rule of law. Looty guns have long been

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<v Speaker 1>popular among motorcycle gangs in Australia, and in October of

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<v Speaker 1>twenty nineteen, a fascist terrorist carried out the last of

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<v Speaker 1>that year's eight Chan shootings in Hulla, Germany with a lootygun.

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<v Speaker 1>His weapons, thankfully did not work well. As a general rule,

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<v Speaker 1>looty guns were never going to be of much use

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<v Speaker 1>to anyone besides organized criminals. They aren't great in a gunfight,

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<v Speaker 1>but you can use them to spray bullets into a

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<v Speaker 1>room or a vehicle at close range pretty well. The

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<v Speaker 1>year after Phil Loudy died twenty twelve, a fellow named

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<v Speaker 1>Cody Wilson decided to carry on his work. Cody felt

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<v Speaker 1>three D printing carried the possibility of eventually manufacturing arms

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<v Speaker 1>of a quality that might rival traditionally produced guns. He

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<v Speaker 1>started simple with a single shot three eighty handgun based

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<v Speaker 1>around the old Liberator pistol from World War II. The

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<v Speaker 1>Liberator had been a single shot forty five caliber handgun

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<v Speaker 1>meant to be dropped into Nazi occupied territories and used

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<v Speaker 1>by insurgents to stealthily kill single German soldiers and take

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<v Speaker 1>their guns. Cody Wilson described himself as a crypto anarchist,

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<v Speaker 1>and when his ideas began to draw attention, he dropped

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<v Speaker 1>out of law school to create Defense Distributed. This organization

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<v Speaker 1>was dedicated to the development and distribution of plans to

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<v Speaker 1>craft three D printed weapons. It used a platform called

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<v Speaker 1>deaf Cad to allow users to develop and share blueprints.

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<v Speaker 1>In twenty thirteen, the first CAD gun file became available

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<v Speaker 1>online to everyone. It was downloaded more than one hundred

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<v Speaker 1>thousand times in two days. I'd like to quote now

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<v Speaker 1>from an article on the website three D Natives. This

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<v Speaker 1>prompted the US government to demand that Defense Distributed remove

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<v Speaker 1>the file from their site. What followed is a legal

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<v Speaker 1>battle between Cody Wilson and the US government, consisting of

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<v Speaker 1>back and forth lawsuits. It lasted five years until in

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<v Speaker 1>twenty eighteen, the Trump administration legalized three D printed guns.

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<v Speaker 1>The same year, Wilson was charged with sexual assault of

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<v Speaker 1>an underage girl and had to step down from Defense Distributed. Nonetheless,

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<v Speaker 1>the organization did not cease to exist without Cody. Today

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<v Speaker 1>for a yearly fee of fifty dollars. Users of the

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<v Speaker 1>DEFCAD website can access the files containing different designs of

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<v Speaker 1>three D printed guns. And I should note here that

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<v Speaker 1>it's probably more accurate to say the Trump administration legalized

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<v Speaker 1>sharing the plans and printing the files and whatnot of

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<v Speaker 1>three D printed guns, not legalized three D printed guns.

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<v Speaker 1>Home made firearms have been federally legal in the United

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<v Speaker 1>States since forever. The fighting in the courts over all

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<v Speaker 1>this has continued ever since, and in twenty nineteen, a

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<v Speaker 1>federal judge in Seattle temporarily blocked DEAFCAD. This sparked the

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<v Speaker 1>creation of a new group, de Terence Dispensed, which was

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<v Speaker 1>even less centralized. The basic idea was that this would

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<v Speaker 1>make them harder to take down via lawsuits or police action.

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<v Speaker 1>Not stated was that this might also protect their reputation

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<v Speaker 1>from a Cody Wilson's situation. The debate over the legality

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<v Speaker 1>of three D printed firearm plans continues on to the

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<v Speaker 1>present day, but the development of these arms has continued

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<v Speaker 1>at an ever faster pace. The best modern three D

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<v Speaker 1>printed arms can even rival conventional guns. It's worth emphasizing

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<v Speaker 1>that these are not purely plastic tools. The Liberator pistol

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<v Speaker 1>used a metal nail, and the better three D arms

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<v Speaker 1>have metal barrels rifled using other craft methods that require

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<v Speaker 1>some knowhow, but arguably less than it took to manufacture

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<v Speaker 1>a looty gun. Three D printed arms have been confiscated

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<v Speaker 1>by police around the world, but in recent months they've

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<v Speaker 1>begun to crop up somewhere new in the arms of

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<v Speaker 1>revolutionaries fighting against a military coup.

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<v Speaker 2>Me and mah Berman before that said relatively strict gun

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<v Speaker 2>control laws for decades. When George Orwell was a policeman

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<v Speaker 2>there in the nineteen twenties, he may have carried a gun,

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<v Speaker 2>but the people he was policing did not. In the

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<v Speaker 2>nineteen thirties, the British leaders allowed tat organizations similar to

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<v Speaker 2>militias to form and drill, but they weren't allowed to

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<v Speaker 2>carry guns. Gun licenses under the dictatorship were issued primarily

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<v Speaker 2>to party members, but most were revoked after nineteen eighty

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<v Speaker 2>eight failed Pro democracy uprising. The only civilians who were

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<v Speaker 2>permitted to own arms through the Chin, the nation's poorest

0:13:00.880 --> 0:13:03.960
<v Speaker 2>ethnic group, who allo on guns to hunt for food.

0:13:04.520 --> 0:13:07.440
<v Speaker 2>In many cases, these guns were flintlocks that would not

0:13:07.480 --> 0:13:09.000
<v Speaker 2>have looked that out of place on the battle Fill

0:13:09.080 --> 0:13:14.320
<v Speaker 2>two centuries before. In practice, though, things are very different.

0:13:15.280 --> 0:13:17.520
<v Speaker 2>The current conflict is best seen as a flare up

0:13:17.520 --> 0:13:19.800
<v Speaker 2>in violence, so it has been ongoing since Britain left

0:13:19.840 --> 0:13:23.920
<v Speaker 2>the country in nineteen forty seven. The Tatmador has consistently

0:13:24.000 --> 0:13:27.440
<v Speaker 2>used violence against marginalized ethnic groups in the country and

0:13:27.480 --> 0:13:31.760
<v Speaker 2>they have consistently taken up arms in response. But unlike

0:13:31.800 --> 0:13:34.840
<v Speaker 2>civil wars in the Middle East, wealthy nations in the

0:13:34.840 --> 0:13:37.240
<v Speaker 2>West have not been flooding me and Mihle with weapons

0:13:37.240 --> 0:13:41.160
<v Speaker 2>for decades, and the various EAOs or ethnic armed organizations

0:13:41.320 --> 0:13:43.760
<v Speaker 2>have had to turn to much more unorthodox roots to

0:13:43.880 --> 0:13:46.920
<v Speaker 2>arm and equip themselves against the government. To get a

0:13:46.960 --> 0:13:48.720
<v Speaker 2>better idea of what things are like on the ground,

0:13:48.920 --> 0:13:51.880
<v Speaker 2>we spoke to Pierre. He's French, but he's a serial

0:13:51.920 --> 0:13:55.240
<v Speaker 2>volunteer with national liberation struggles around the world and fought

0:13:55.280 --> 0:13:57.559
<v Speaker 2>with the Korrenn people in the early two thousands.

0:13:58.480 --> 0:14:04.320
<v Speaker 3>Yes, so the ammunition is a constant problem.

0:14:04.440 --> 0:14:12.280
<v Speaker 4>The shortage is absolutely permanent, and yes, there is two

0:14:12.360 --> 0:14:17.720
<v Speaker 4>sources for the for the for the weapons, there is

0:14:17.720 --> 0:14:22.640
<v Speaker 4>the black market, and the prices, especially of ammunition, are prohibitive.

0:14:23.240 --> 0:14:27.400
<v Speaker 4>This is why I would like to have my notebook

0:14:27.560 --> 0:14:30.200
<v Speaker 4>here with me, because I think I wrote down the

0:14:30.320 --> 0:14:35.080
<v Speaker 4>conversation I had with some leaders of the kind at

0:14:35.120 --> 0:14:39.040
<v Speaker 4>the time, asking them why we didn't do more persons.

0:14:39.080 --> 0:14:44.160
<v Speaker 4>But we just can't afford it, you know, we just

0:14:44.200 --> 0:14:47.040
<v Speaker 4>can't afford it. Like strictly, we we don't well, we

0:14:47.080 --> 0:14:51.280
<v Speaker 4>don't have enough ammunition to do any kind of of

0:14:51.960 --> 0:14:55.760
<v Speaker 4>operation we need to. So all the operations we did

0:14:55.800 --> 0:15:00.480
<v Speaker 4>were always focused on if we could capture some ammunition,

0:15:01.960 --> 0:15:05.560
<v Speaker 4>if we could get you like weapons, but especially ammunition.

0:15:06.840 --> 0:15:10.120
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, so there is you know that that's the second

0:15:10.160 --> 0:15:14.520
<v Speaker 3>source of of course, of of weapons.

0:15:15.120 --> 0:15:19.920
<v Speaker 4>Uh, let's say source is the it is the captures

0:15:20.000 --> 0:15:26.240
<v Speaker 4>of course, then the black markets. The black markets used

0:15:26.280 --> 0:15:29.360
<v Speaker 4>to be huge in Cambodia. I don't know, it's the

0:15:29.440 --> 0:15:33.120
<v Speaker 4>situation now. That was in the nineties. It was it

0:15:33.160 --> 0:15:36.440
<v Speaker 4>was a bit of the Albania of some Systizia at

0:15:36.440 --> 0:15:37.640
<v Speaker 4>this time, right.

0:15:38.560 --> 0:15:44.520
<v Speaker 5>And so there is also the other ethnic groups that

0:15:45.160 --> 0:15:52.040
<v Speaker 5>receive sometimes say a lot of.

0:15:50.560 --> 0:15:57.640
<v Speaker 4>Of of arms and ammunition from sponsors, like some of them,

0:15:57.720 --> 0:16:00.160
<v Speaker 4>like the Western term is our sponsors by chin that

0:16:00.280 --> 0:16:03.480
<v Speaker 4>sort of like the supply of nation. It's pretty good

0:16:04.040 --> 0:16:11.560
<v Speaker 4>of webons. I think it's even cartolony and stuff. Then

0:16:11.840 --> 0:16:17.720
<v Speaker 4>there is also groups that also produced locally quite good.

0:16:18.720 --> 0:16:23.520
<v Speaker 3>They are on arms, light arms.

0:16:23.360 --> 0:16:28.760
<v Speaker 4>Usually, so yeah, these are the different sources of what

0:16:28.880 --> 0:16:32.520
<v Speaker 4>comes the OK in the time I was there.

0:16:32.720 --> 0:16:34.680
<v Speaker 2>In the early weeks of the protests. Once it I

0:16:34.760 --> 0:16:37.560
<v Speaker 2>claimed clear that non violent demonstrators were going to be

0:16:37.600 --> 0:16:42.600
<v Speaker 2>met with state violence, protests began to fashion weapons. First,

0:16:42.840 --> 0:16:46.040
<v Speaker 2>they thought soldiers with assault rifles, using catapults and bows

0:16:46.080 --> 0:16:50.240
<v Speaker 2>and arrows. It was incredibly brave, but it wasn't very effective.

0:16:51.440 --> 0:16:54.480
<v Speaker 2>By the twenty eighth of March, protesters have taken a

0:16:54.520 --> 0:16:58.400
<v Speaker 2>step fo A group calling itself the Klay Civil Army

0:16:58.480 --> 0:17:03.120
<v Speaker 2>set up barricades. I defended them using pressurized air rifles

0:17:03.120 --> 0:17:07.160
<v Speaker 2>that fired marbles and bicycle wheel bearings. The rifles all

0:17:07.240 --> 0:17:11.040
<v Speaker 2>used the same design and the same components. They were

0:17:11.040 --> 0:17:13.800
<v Speaker 2>based on a video someone found on YouTube, but they

0:17:13.800 --> 0:17:18.639
<v Speaker 2>weren't lethal. They helped protesters defend their space, albeit at

0:17:18.720 --> 0:17:22.360
<v Speaker 2>great cost. In that first clash, four protesters and four

0:17:22.400 --> 0:17:25.879
<v Speaker 2>soldiers were killed. The protesters in Calais were able to

0:17:25.880 --> 0:17:28.879
<v Speaker 2>hold out a few days using old hunting rifles and

0:17:28.920 --> 0:17:32.080
<v Speaker 2>air guns. The ambush military patrols and they took four

0:17:32.080 --> 0:17:36.600
<v Speaker 2>police hostage. Then they exchanged them for nine incarcerated protesters.

0:17:37.680 --> 0:17:40.080
<v Speaker 2>But in early April, the Tapmador returned to the protest

0:17:40.119 --> 0:17:43.280
<v Speaker 2>camp in Calay with rocket propelled grenades and machine guns

0:17:43.320 --> 0:17:46.919
<v Speaker 2>and killed eleven people. We must fight back against them.

0:17:47.080 --> 0:17:50.400
<v Speaker 2>If not, our generation will face a worse situation than us.

0:17:51.080 --> 0:17:54.440
<v Speaker 2>They have no laws, a neighborhood villager who battled the

0:17:54.520 --> 0:17:58.880
<v Speaker 2>regime's forces told The Irrawaddy, a local paper. The air

0:17:58.880 --> 0:18:02.600
<v Speaker 2>guns spread around the cuntry trey quickly to avoid surveillance.

0:18:02.800 --> 0:18:06.600
<v Speaker 2>Protesters talked about cooking up berryani on telegram channels, and

0:18:06.680 --> 0:18:09.080
<v Speaker 2>what they meant was desperately scouring the Internet for a

0:18:09.080 --> 0:18:11.520
<v Speaker 2>way to fight back and finding a way to make

0:18:11.560 --> 0:18:14.399
<v Speaker 2>an air rifle out of a buttane canister, a pipe

0:18:14.720 --> 0:18:19.439
<v Speaker 2>and a cigarette lighter, combined with fireworks and smoke bombs

0:18:19.440 --> 0:18:23.560
<v Speaker 2>made of potassium nitrate. The air rifle gave protests just

0:18:23.720 --> 0:18:28.240
<v Speaker 2>enough cupboard to escape police charges, but they also gave

0:18:28.320 --> 0:18:31.480
<v Speaker 2>the hunter an excuse to further escalate the violence.

0:18:32.160 --> 0:18:36.080
<v Speaker 6>Attitudes are hardening among the protesters too. In Mandalay, they

0:18:36.119 --> 0:18:39.600
<v Speaker 6>took air rifles to the barricades on Saturday, hardly a

0:18:39.680 --> 0:18:42.680
<v Speaker 6>match for the weapons of war they face, but now

0:18:42.720 --> 0:18:46.040
<v Speaker 6>they know this is a fight to the death and

0:18:46.119 --> 0:18:51.119
<v Speaker 6>more destruction. After a fire raged in pg Dagon township overnight,

0:18:51.960 --> 0:18:56.040
<v Speaker 6>people living there but kept away by security forces returned

0:18:56.080 --> 0:18:59.560
<v Speaker 6>to find sixty homes burned to the ground. Now all

0:18:59.560 --> 0:19:02.080
<v Speaker 6>they can do is picked through the ashes, trying to

0:19:02.119 --> 0:19:05.800
<v Speaker 6>save anything from the military's policy have scorched a.

0:19:16.040 --> 0:19:18.879
<v Speaker 1>Even the top Madaw makes its own weapons, a highly

0:19:18.960 --> 0:19:22.719
<v Speaker 1>unusual move for a relatively small nation. Top Mada troops

0:19:22.720 --> 0:19:25.119
<v Speaker 1>and police can be seen with a bewildering array of

0:19:25.119 --> 0:19:28.520
<v Speaker 1>indigenously produced copies of M sixteen's ouzies and even five

0:19:28.560 --> 0:19:31.879
<v Speaker 1>to five six Galil pattern AK style rifles, as well

0:19:31.920 --> 0:19:34.920
<v Speaker 1>as M three light machine guns, which are slightly updated

0:19:34.920 --> 0:19:37.520
<v Speaker 1>copies of the MG forty two used by the Nazis

0:19:37.560 --> 0:19:40.840
<v Speaker 1>in World War Two. After the failed eight eight eight

0:19:40.920 --> 0:19:44.760
<v Speaker 1>eight uprisings in nineteen eighty eight, the military offered concessions

0:19:44.800 --> 0:19:48.200
<v Speaker 1>to China in return for more advanced weapons. They got them,

0:19:48.240 --> 0:19:52.240
<v Speaker 1>but it didn't stop China from also supplying ethnic armed organizations.

0:19:52.760 --> 0:19:55.760
<v Speaker 1>EAOs don't have access to the same munitions factories that

0:19:55.800 --> 0:19:58.199
<v Speaker 1>the government does, but there is a long tradition of

0:19:58.240 --> 0:20:01.919
<v Speaker 1>homemade weapons in Myanmar. In more remote parts of the country,

0:20:02.000 --> 0:20:04.280
<v Speaker 1>home made air rifles and shotguns seem to have been

0:20:04.320 --> 0:20:07.600
<v Speaker 1>relatively commonplace before the start of the conflict, and they

0:20:07.640 --> 0:20:10.840
<v Speaker 1>were mostly used for hunting. The country is also covered

0:20:10.840 --> 0:20:13.600
<v Speaker 1>with land mines, which the EAOs used a great effect

0:20:13.640 --> 0:20:16.800
<v Speaker 1>against the topmat Aw. We spoke to Pierre, a former

0:20:16.840 --> 0:20:19.119
<v Speaker 1>combatant with the KRIN who no longer lives in me

0:20:19.240 --> 0:20:22.280
<v Speaker 1>and Maar. His experience is not that recent, but it

0:20:22.320 --> 0:20:25.000
<v Speaker 1>helps us to understand the way this conflict has been

0:20:25.040 --> 0:20:26.119
<v Speaker 1>fought for decades.

0:20:26.440 --> 0:20:30.479
<v Speaker 4>What we used to to produce a lot of land mines,

0:20:30.960 --> 0:20:33.399
<v Speaker 4>that's that's produced at the base.

0:20:33.520 --> 0:20:40.080
<v Speaker 3>Yes, with like you know, very systems. Is a little

0:20:40.080 --> 0:20:40.359
<v Speaker 3>bit of.

0:20:43.240 --> 0:20:46.200
<v Speaker 4>One type of plastic explosive, a couple of BOMBOO for

0:20:46.280 --> 0:20:47.000
<v Speaker 4>contactors and.

0:20:48.560 --> 0:20:49.800
<v Speaker 3>Battery. That's it.

0:20:50.280 --> 0:20:53.480
<v Speaker 1>Pellet guns are not good for combat, and EAOs mostly

0:20:53.520 --> 0:20:57.640
<v Speaker 1>relied on weapons imported from Thailand, India or China. Overwhelmingly

0:20:57.880 --> 0:21:00.880
<v Speaker 1>these were ak or In sixteen pattern rifles.

0:21:01.160 --> 0:21:06.480
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, mostly in my in the units have been there

0:21:06.760 --> 0:21:11.280
<v Speaker 4>is probably a majority of platforms.

0:21:10.560 --> 0:21:11.200
<v Speaker 3>In this time.

0:21:11.320 --> 0:21:16.760
<v Speaker 4>Yes, yeah, definitely, I mean it's more reliable and you know,

0:21:17.040 --> 0:21:23.760
<v Speaker 4>simple to part. It's very adapted to the to the to.

0:21:23.920 --> 0:21:26.960
<v Speaker 3>The type of guerrilla it was. It was quite correct,

0:21:27.000 --> 0:21:27.480
<v Speaker 3>I mean.

0:21:30.400 --> 0:21:33.199
<v Speaker 4>From the moment that I switched to a case at

0:21:33.280 --> 0:21:37.200
<v Speaker 4>least because at first I tried to use this Sucreparency

0:21:37.640 --> 0:21:46.040
<v Speaker 4>M sixteen and it was a nightmare of malfunctions. So

0:21:46.080 --> 0:21:50.080
<v Speaker 4>I switched back to a case. What I best know

0:21:50.680 --> 0:21:59.040
<v Speaker 4>used doesn't have this. I never really had any any

0:21:59.040 --> 0:22:02.080
<v Speaker 4>malfunction music case. Maybe one time it's a qulty lot

0:22:02.119 --> 0:22:06.000
<v Speaker 4>of communition, but that's it. Not really the rightful inlude.

0:22:06.240 --> 0:22:08.879
<v Speaker 1>The fight, Pierre says, has never been restricted to the

0:22:08.880 --> 0:22:11.880
<v Speaker 1>battlefield for the top of the door. Violence against civilians

0:22:11.960 --> 0:22:16.160
<v Speaker 1>is part of their four cuts doctrine that cuts off funding, food, intelligence,

0:22:16.160 --> 0:22:19.439
<v Speaker 1>and recruits for the EAOs. Now they are moving that

0:22:19.560 --> 0:22:21.520
<v Speaker 1>same outlook to the cities.

0:22:22.040 --> 0:22:23.520
<v Speaker 3>Like literally.

0:22:24.840 --> 0:22:31.159
<v Speaker 4>Literally a bye by absolutely no rows of wall of hers.

0:22:32.320 --> 0:22:34.080
<v Speaker 3>I mean, like one of.

0:22:34.119 --> 0:22:36.280
<v Speaker 4>The first things that I saw when we went going

0:22:36.320 --> 0:22:43.280
<v Speaker 4>patrolling in the in the Karen villages, huh around the

0:22:43.520 --> 0:22:49.840
<v Speaker 4>houzone of operation, is that there was absolutely no girl

0:22:50.040 --> 0:22:55.240
<v Speaker 4>between the edge of eleven to the age of seventeen.

0:22:55.320 --> 0:23:01.360
<v Speaker 4>I was, like, I asked you know, my my commander

0:23:01.400 --> 0:23:04.679
<v Speaker 4>about it, and he says, yeah, like obviously if they

0:23:04.840 --> 0:23:06.760
<v Speaker 4>if they stay us, they will be rapped by the

0:23:06.800 --> 0:23:09.879
<v Speaker 4>tapmado and the first patrol like the first time they

0:23:09.880 --> 0:23:11.080
<v Speaker 4>will will come.

0:23:11.160 --> 0:23:11.320
<v Speaker 3>You know.

0:23:11.440 --> 0:23:13.320
<v Speaker 4>So this this gives you a little bit of the

0:23:13.400 --> 0:23:19.720
<v Speaker 4>tone of what they are about. They constantly ransom civilians

0:23:20.119 --> 0:23:26.520
<v Speaker 4>when they don't model them, like you know, shell villages

0:23:26.800 --> 0:23:30.520
<v Speaker 4>for norrision or because there had been an operation of

0:23:30.680 --> 0:23:33.920
<v Speaker 4>the kind of a and they take revenge and who

0:23:33.920 --> 0:23:34.960
<v Speaker 4>they can take revenge.

0:23:34.800 --> 0:23:38.560
<v Speaker 3>And with the civilians. You know, this is this is

0:23:38.560 --> 0:23:40.920
<v Speaker 3>how they be. This is who they are basically.

0:23:41.560 --> 0:23:44.000
<v Speaker 1>The Topmadaw is a large army in many of the

0:23:44.040 --> 0:23:47.960
<v Speaker 1>conscripts are hardly high speed operator types, but that hasn't

0:23:48.000 --> 0:23:50.880
<v Speaker 1>stopped them from killing thousands of innocent civilians.

0:23:51.359 --> 0:23:56.119
<v Speaker 4>I mean they have as many army, different units with

0:23:56.480 --> 0:24:04.640
<v Speaker 4>different military value. Let's say, uh, you know, many times

0:24:05.040 --> 0:24:11.960
<v Speaker 4>the units that they stuck on hilltop in the middle

0:24:12.040 --> 0:24:18.600
<v Speaker 4>of rebel zone are not like the most combative let's say,

0:24:18.640 --> 0:24:25.280
<v Speaker 4>but sometimes you will get surprised resistance. But yeah, except

0:24:25.280 --> 0:24:26.480
<v Speaker 4>for that, when.

0:24:26.440 --> 0:24:27.800
<v Speaker 3>They do.

0:24:29.240 --> 0:24:33.439
<v Speaker 4>An operation in in a place, they bring in like

0:24:34.080 --> 0:24:36.960
<v Speaker 4>more elite troops let's.

0:24:36.760 --> 0:24:40.640
<v Speaker 1>Say, by contrast, the k n l A, the Karnean

0:24:40.720 --> 0:24:44.280
<v Speaker 1>National Liberation Army and other e aos relied on civilian

0:24:44.320 --> 0:24:45.440
<v Speaker 1>support to survive.

0:24:46.160 --> 0:24:53.520
<v Speaker 4>The CAN operates in in Karen territory and the civilians

0:24:53.520 --> 0:24:58.920
<v Speaker 4>are karent. I mean, uh pretty much when we when

0:24:58.960 --> 0:25:02.720
<v Speaker 4>we arrive in uh in a village as medics, you

0:25:02.760 --> 0:25:06.600
<v Speaker 4>know that with us that take care of the population,

0:25:07.320 --> 0:25:10.080
<v Speaker 4>distribute medicine.

0:25:10.440 --> 0:25:14.879
<v Speaker 3>Uh No, like I don't know what to tell me.

0:25:15.000 --> 0:25:18.560
<v Speaker 3>Is like quite it's quite a funny accusation coming from

0:25:18.600 --> 0:25:19.080
<v Speaker 3>the technolo.

0:25:19.560 --> 0:25:21.560
<v Speaker 1>This attitude has helped them, Per says, and they have

0:25:21.640 --> 0:25:23.919
<v Speaker 1>always been open to non current recruits.

0:25:24.280 --> 0:25:26.320
<v Speaker 3>First of all, it is not absolutely not.

0:25:28.040 --> 0:25:34.240
<v Speaker 4>Let's say, some kind of ethnicist organization or ethno nationally

0:25:34.320 --> 0:25:37.880
<v Speaker 4>it's like, you know, with some hate for I think group,

0:25:37.960 --> 0:25:42.280
<v Speaker 4>including the Obama I think group that like traditionally you

0:25:42.359 --> 0:25:48.440
<v Speaker 4>know are the leaders of the Tamadel that have been

0:25:48.440 --> 0:25:52.920
<v Speaker 4>oppressing them for seventeen years. But they have absolutely no resentment.

0:25:53.080 --> 0:25:58.680
<v Speaker 4>They are extremely open to work with Democrats, democratic forces

0:25:58.720 --> 0:26:01.679
<v Speaker 4>from from every In fact, yes.

0:26:01.760 --> 0:26:04.159
<v Speaker 1>Since nineteen eighty eight, Per said, the k in l

0:26:04.200 --> 0:26:06.640
<v Speaker 1>A had been willing to link up with democratic rebels

0:26:06.680 --> 0:26:09.040
<v Speaker 1>providing them with training and shelter in order to further

0:26:09.080 --> 0:26:11.960
<v Speaker 1>their shared goal of a federal and democratic country that

0:26:12.080 --> 0:26:13.880
<v Speaker 1>treated all ethnicities with respect.

0:26:14.200 --> 0:26:14.960
<v Speaker 3>So PDFs.

0:26:15.000 --> 0:26:20.760
<v Speaker 4>So these rebels, let's say, also trended by the Karrents

0:26:20.800 --> 0:26:24.280
<v Speaker 4>and also by people I know very well since it

0:26:24.520 --> 0:26:29.960
<v Speaker 4>was my commander then Neda. So I've seen I've seen

0:26:30.320 --> 0:26:39.320
<v Speaker 4>the Karrents. I've always been extremely accommodating to the Bama opposition,

0:26:40.000 --> 0:26:44.280
<v Speaker 4>meaning the Bamara, the main ethnic group are I'd say

0:26:44.320 --> 0:26:47.879
<v Speaker 4>this for you of people that might not know the difference.

0:26:49.040 --> 0:26:56.040
<v Speaker 4>And so the Karens always add representation and they took

0:26:56.480 --> 0:27:02.960
<v Speaker 4>like you know, political refugees, let's say, from inside the

0:27:03.000 --> 0:27:07.600
<v Speaker 4>Boma in the territories. The control manor prose was like

0:27:07.840 --> 0:27:12.359
<v Speaker 4>the student association, which exact na my cantricle right now.

0:27:12.680 --> 0:27:18.120
<v Speaker 4>But all these our organization of position. And so now

0:27:18.480 --> 0:27:25.200
<v Speaker 4>they keep this tradition by helping the these new rebels

0:27:25.200 --> 0:27:28.119
<v Speaker 4>of the PDF to get military training.

0:27:29.200 --> 0:27:33.080
<v Speaker 1>And yes, by the summer of twenty twenty, young people

0:27:33.080 --> 0:27:35.280
<v Speaker 1>had fled into the jungles and many of them, even

0:27:35.320 --> 0:27:38.399
<v Speaker 1>the ones of Burman ethnicity, were fighting alongside the Karin

0:27:38.520 --> 0:27:42.400
<v Speaker 1>and Karni rebels. They'd previously seen as troublemakers and terrorists.

0:27:42.480 --> 0:27:45.040
<v Speaker 1>Just a year or two before, we spoke with one

0:27:45.040 --> 0:27:48.280
<v Speaker 1>of these people, Zahlin, who left his home in May

0:27:48.320 --> 0:27:49.320
<v Speaker 1>of twenty twenty one.

0:27:50.119 --> 0:27:54.520
<v Speaker 7>There was students, friends, but also young people from just

0:27:54.560 --> 0:27:59.680
<v Speaker 7>the neighborhood. Most people were just above twenty, a lot

0:27:59.680 --> 0:28:05.040
<v Speaker 7>of somewhere single. You know, there's women as well, people

0:28:05.080 --> 0:28:10.760
<v Speaker 7>who knew technology, young people from the from the technology

0:28:10.840 --> 0:28:20.119
<v Speaker 7>computer coologists why Caauk University. A lot of these people

0:28:20.119 --> 0:28:24.800
<v Speaker 7>who knew modern technology went into the jungle to go

0:28:25.040 --> 0:28:27.639
<v Speaker 7>in the jungle to train and be able to overthrow

0:28:27.760 --> 0:28:32.800
<v Speaker 7>the men online government. So there, it was very tiring.

0:28:32.840 --> 0:28:35.399
<v Speaker 7>We had to go up and down on lots of hills.

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<v Speaker 7>It was two days of walking get there, so up

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<v Speaker 7>and down the hills and back down, up and down

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<v Speaker 7>until we got to the training plan.

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<v Speaker 1>It could Happen here as a production of cool Zone Media.

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<v Speaker 4>For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website

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<v Speaker 4>cool zonemedia dot com, or check us out on the

0:28:57.240 --> 0:29:00.680
<v Speaker 4>iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

0:29:01.200 --> 0:29:03.320
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<v Speaker 1>monthly at coolzonemedia dot com slash sources, thanks for listening.