1 00:00:09,400 --> 00:00:12,239 Speaker 1: Kathy Kleiner was sound asleep in her bed at the 2 00:00:12,280 --> 00:00:15,560 Speaker 1: Kyle Mega House. It was in nineteen seventy eight when 3 00:00:15,640 --> 00:00:20,280 Speaker 1: the notorious serial killer Ted Bundy broke into her sorority 4 00:00:20,320 --> 00:00:24,720 Speaker 1: house and went on a murderous rampage. When he ran 5 00:00:24,760 --> 00:00:27,760 Speaker 1: out of the house that night, the crime spree was 6 00:00:27,800 --> 00:00:31,680 Speaker 1: not over. Kathy was just twenty years old when she 7 00:00:31,800 --> 00:00:38,040 Speaker 1: was attacked. Later, she heroically faced him in court. This 8 00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:43,240 Speaker 1: monster that killed her friends and sorority sisters and attacked 9 00:00:43,280 --> 00:00:48,080 Speaker 1: her and her roommate. She stared him down. She felt 10 00:00:48,080 --> 00:00:50,280 Speaker 1: like it was up to her to put him away. 11 00:00:51,120 --> 00:00:54,400 Speaker 1: Kathy and her roommate survived this brutal attack, but two 12 00:00:54,480 --> 00:00:57,440 Speaker 1: of her sorority sisters did not. She has had a 13 00:00:57,520 --> 00:01:02,320 Speaker 1: road to recovery that continues to this day. The effects 14 00:01:02,360 --> 00:01:06,320 Speaker 1: of her attack are forever She had surgery not too 15 00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:11,240 Speaker 1: long ago. Kathy Kleiner is my friend. She is fun, 16 00:01:11,920 --> 00:01:16,520 Speaker 1: she's loyal, she's smart, she is full of life. She 17 00:01:16,959 --> 00:01:20,880 Speaker 1: hands down has the most positive outlook of anyone that 18 00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:24,480 Speaker 1: I know. The attack by Ted Bundy is only part 19 00:01:24,560 --> 00:01:27,720 Speaker 1: of her life story. It ain't the end. It is 20 00:01:27,800 --> 00:01:33,640 Speaker 1: my great honor and privilege to introduce my friend, Kathy Kleiner. 21 00:01:33,680 --> 00:01:35,800 Speaker 2: Thank you very much. I'm so happy to be here. 22 00:01:35,840 --> 00:01:38,680 Speaker 1: Well, this is long overdue. We have talked about doing it. 23 00:01:38,720 --> 00:01:41,080 Speaker 1: We tried to do it a couple times, and storms 24 00:01:41,120 --> 00:01:44,280 Speaker 1: and technical issues other things stopped us. But we are 25 00:01:44,319 --> 00:01:48,400 Speaker 1: here tonight. Listen, your life did not start or end 26 00:01:48,520 --> 00:01:52,000 Speaker 1: with Ted Bundy. But let's start when you were twelve 27 00:01:52,080 --> 00:01:55,760 Speaker 1: years old. What challenge did you have at even that 28 00:01:55,960 --> 00:01:56,800 Speaker 1: young of an age. 29 00:01:57,360 --> 00:02:00,440 Speaker 2: When I was twelve years old, actually I was in 30 00:02:00,520 --> 00:02:03,120 Speaker 2: sixth grade. Toward the end of the year, I became 31 00:02:03,720 --> 00:02:06,360 Speaker 2: very sick. I had a fever and I couldn't get 32 00:02:06,360 --> 00:02:09,360 Speaker 2: out of bed. I was so so tired, So my 33 00:02:09,480 --> 00:02:11,960 Speaker 2: parents took me to the doctor and I was admitted 34 00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:15,120 Speaker 2: to the hospital for three months. And I lay there 35 00:02:15,120 --> 00:02:18,400 Speaker 2: in the hospital and I was afraid and I was scared, 36 00:02:18,440 --> 00:02:21,679 Speaker 2: and family members would come and meet me during the day, 37 00:02:21,720 --> 00:02:24,040 Speaker 2: but it seemed at night I was always by myself, 38 00:02:24,880 --> 00:02:27,760 Speaker 2: and I was ready to go home and be a 39 00:02:27,880 --> 00:02:32,200 Speaker 2: kid again. But the doctors instead told my parents that 40 00:02:32,560 --> 00:02:35,320 Speaker 2: I should be taken home and made comfortable because they 41 00:02:35,360 --> 00:02:37,600 Speaker 2: really didn't know what was wrong with me. They had 42 00:02:37,639 --> 00:02:41,120 Speaker 2: no idea why my kidneys were stopping or why I 43 00:02:41,160 --> 00:02:44,600 Speaker 2: was so tired all the time. So during this time, 44 00:02:44,880 --> 00:02:48,920 Speaker 2: they sent me home and a doctor approached my parents. 45 00:02:49,400 --> 00:02:53,799 Speaker 2: She says she was from Cuba. I think she has lupus, 46 00:02:54,639 --> 00:02:59,240 Speaker 2: which was very unknown and very rare at someone at 47 00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:03,080 Speaker 2: my age. So they ran test and she says I'd 48 00:03:03,160 --> 00:03:07,160 Speaker 2: like to give her experimental chemo. So she did, and 49 00:03:07,240 --> 00:03:10,320 Speaker 2: about the second time I had to take the chemo, 50 00:03:10,400 --> 00:03:13,320 Speaker 2: my hair fell out. It all fell out. I had 51 00:03:13,360 --> 00:03:16,720 Speaker 2: no hair, I was bald, and I was home. I 52 00:03:16,840 --> 00:03:19,560 Speaker 2: was home alone. I could look out the window and 53 00:03:19,600 --> 00:03:23,000 Speaker 2: see the kids play, but I couldn't go out, and 54 00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:26,239 Speaker 2: they couldn't come in because they were afraid they'd get 55 00:03:26,280 --> 00:03:29,920 Speaker 2: me sick because I was on chemo. So while I'm home, 56 00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:32,839 Speaker 2: my parents were working. I'm completely bald, and I would 57 00:03:32,840 --> 00:03:36,080 Speaker 2: get so bored during the day. I actually picked up 58 00:03:36,120 --> 00:03:38,960 Speaker 2: the phone and Donald zero so I could talk to 59 00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:43,000 Speaker 2: the operator and sometimes they would talk to me. But 60 00:03:43,080 --> 00:03:45,080 Speaker 2: toward the end of the year, at the end of 61 00:03:45,120 --> 00:03:48,960 Speaker 2: the seventh grade, I started feeling better. My hair started 62 00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:51,800 Speaker 2: growing in, and I asked my parents if I could 63 00:03:51,840 --> 00:03:53,880 Speaker 2: get out of the house. So we went to church 64 00:03:53,960 --> 00:03:57,280 Speaker 2: one week and not a week later, I came home 65 00:03:57,320 --> 00:04:00,600 Speaker 2: and had shingles. So now I have and goes all 66 00:04:00,600 --> 00:04:04,080 Speaker 2: over my face. I'm bald, and I could not wait 67 00:04:04,160 --> 00:04:07,360 Speaker 2: to go back outside and make friends again. The last 68 00:04:07,360 --> 00:04:09,720 Speaker 2: thing I cared was how I looked. It was more 69 00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:11,960 Speaker 2: how I feel, and I felt like I was going 70 00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:14,680 Speaker 2: to be great. I had no idea how sick I was, 71 00:04:15,240 --> 00:04:18,080 Speaker 2: but I was over staying home, and that's when I 72 00:04:18,160 --> 00:04:20,760 Speaker 2: knew I can get through this. I want to get 73 00:04:20,760 --> 00:04:23,600 Speaker 2: through it for my parents and for my family and 74 00:04:23,640 --> 00:04:25,480 Speaker 2: for me. I want to be able to go out 75 00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:26,159 Speaker 2: and play again. 76 00:04:27,200 --> 00:04:31,839 Speaker 1: Unbelievable. And now let's fast forward a little bit. It's 77 00:04:31,880 --> 00:04:35,160 Speaker 1: time to go to college. Argue, believe some of the 78 00:04:35,240 --> 00:04:38,720 Speaker 1: best four years of your life. You are going to 79 00:04:39,040 --> 00:04:41,960 Speaker 1: hit the road. You're leaving your parents' house. You want 80 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:46,599 Speaker 1: this independence. You plan on rushing to sorority and honey, 81 00:04:46,640 --> 00:04:50,479 Speaker 1: you're going to be at FSU. Florida State University is 82 00:04:50,760 --> 00:04:57,159 Speaker 1: a fantastic university, great students, great location, and a ton 83 00:04:57,520 --> 00:04:58,000 Speaker 1: of fun. 84 00:04:58,720 --> 00:04:59,480 Speaker 3: Yes, it was. 85 00:05:01,680 --> 00:05:05,640 Speaker 1: So you head out and you decide to rush Kyle 86 00:05:05,720 --> 00:05:08,360 Speaker 1: Mega and then you move into the house. Why did 87 00:05:08,400 --> 00:05:09,440 Speaker 1: you move into the house. 88 00:05:09,800 --> 00:05:13,280 Speaker 2: Originally, when I was a freshman, I was in a dormitory, 89 00:05:13,839 --> 00:05:16,520 Speaker 2: and my parents were so worried that it was not 90 00:05:16,600 --> 00:05:18,640 Speaker 2: a safe place for me to be in that they 91 00:05:18,680 --> 00:05:21,000 Speaker 2: worried someone and could come to the dorm and hurt 92 00:05:21,040 --> 00:05:23,440 Speaker 2: me or hurt the other women. So they were just 93 00:05:23,960 --> 00:05:28,120 Speaker 2: uncomfortable with me being in the dorm, so they made arrangements. 94 00:05:28,360 --> 00:05:32,680 Speaker 2: During the summer of nineteen seventy seven, they made arrangements 95 00:05:32,680 --> 00:05:35,640 Speaker 2: for me to move into the ky Omega House. They 96 00:05:35,640 --> 00:05:38,000 Speaker 2: thought it was so much safer living there. 97 00:05:38,279 --> 00:05:38,760 Speaker 3: There was a. 98 00:05:38,760 --> 00:05:41,359 Speaker 2: House mother, and there were locks on the door, and 99 00:05:41,400 --> 00:05:45,240 Speaker 2: there were forty girls living in the sorority house. And 100 00:05:45,279 --> 00:05:46,839 Speaker 2: how safer could it be for me? 101 00:05:47,200 --> 00:05:49,240 Speaker 1: And you were on the second floor, I mean, that's 102 00:05:49,240 --> 00:05:50,000 Speaker 1: even safer. 103 00:05:50,400 --> 00:05:54,839 Speaker 2: Yes, When you entered the ky Omega House, as soon 104 00:05:54,880 --> 00:05:58,000 Speaker 2: as you walked in through the fourya there was a 105 00:05:58,000 --> 00:06:01,000 Speaker 2: wooden staircase that was beautiful and it went up to 106 00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:05,000 Speaker 2: the second floor, and my bedroom was on the second floor. 107 00:06:05,720 --> 00:06:09,400 Speaker 2: It faced the back of the house, which overlooked the 108 00:06:09,480 --> 00:06:13,680 Speaker 2: parking lot. We had a beautiful bank of windows in 109 00:06:13,720 --> 00:06:17,520 Speaker 2: our bedroom and we always kept the curtains open because 110 00:06:17,560 --> 00:06:20,360 Speaker 2: we wanted to have the light in. So we hung 111 00:06:20,440 --> 00:06:24,400 Speaker 2: curtain rods and plants from the curtain rods, so we 112 00:06:24,440 --> 00:06:27,920 Speaker 2: couldn't close them. But our room was great. We had 113 00:06:27,960 --> 00:06:30,800 Speaker 2: a desk on each side, and a desk and then 114 00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:35,360 Speaker 2: a dresser, and then our footboards to our bed were next, 115 00:06:35,440 --> 00:06:38,840 Speaker 2: and then our headboard was parallel to the wall at 116 00:06:38,839 --> 00:06:43,560 Speaker 2: the back of the room, so our headboards were against 117 00:06:43,560 --> 00:06:45,200 Speaker 2: the wall of the back room. 118 00:06:45,680 --> 00:06:46,279 Speaker 3: It was great. 119 00:06:46,360 --> 00:06:48,200 Speaker 2: It was always sunny in there, and it was a 120 00:06:48,200 --> 00:06:49,599 Speaker 2: great environment to be in. 121 00:06:50,120 --> 00:06:52,120 Speaker 1: And Honey, there was no way for you to know 122 00:06:52,640 --> 00:06:54,880 Speaker 1: that you were about to come into contact with a 123 00:06:54,960 --> 00:07:02,200 Speaker 1: stranger that had already killed dozens of young women. Shington, Stay, Utah, 124 00:07:02,480 --> 00:07:08,800 Speaker 1: and Colorado. So tell us January fifteenth, around three am, 125 00:07:09,279 --> 00:07:10,000 Speaker 1: what happens? 126 00:07:10,560 --> 00:07:14,160 Speaker 2: Around three o'clock in the morning, someone noticed that the 127 00:07:14,200 --> 00:07:17,400 Speaker 2: back door of the authority house, the back door that 128 00:07:17,480 --> 00:07:22,280 Speaker 2: led to the wreck room, was broken. Someone picked up 129 00:07:22,280 --> 00:07:26,119 Speaker 2: a log from the piece of firewood that was laid 130 00:07:26,160 --> 00:07:29,120 Speaker 2: outside by the back door. He picked it up and 131 00:07:29,200 --> 00:07:32,840 Speaker 2: walked through the wreck room into the foyer and up 132 00:07:32,840 --> 00:07:37,080 Speaker 2: those beautiful wooden staircases. He turned the corner to the 133 00:07:37,120 --> 00:07:40,640 Speaker 2: first hall, which was the hall where my room was. 134 00:07:41,760 --> 00:07:45,760 Speaker 2: The first room he came to was unlocked. He opened 135 00:07:45,760 --> 00:07:50,320 Speaker 2: the door and that mark was Margaret's room. He attacked 136 00:07:50,400 --> 00:07:53,000 Speaker 2: her with the club that he had picked up, and 137 00:07:53,040 --> 00:07:56,680 Speaker 2: he strangled her and he killed her, and then he 138 00:07:56,800 --> 00:08:00,000 Speaker 2: left the curt the sheets right next to her chain, 139 00:08:00,280 --> 00:08:03,320 Speaker 2: so it looked like she was sleeping. He left her 140 00:08:03,400 --> 00:08:06,920 Speaker 2: room and closed the door. He walked across the hall 141 00:08:07,040 --> 00:08:11,040 Speaker 2: to the next room, and loom was Lisa. He went 142 00:08:11,080 --> 00:08:14,080 Speaker 2: into her room, he closed the door, and he attacked 143 00:08:14,080 --> 00:08:16,720 Speaker 2: her with the same log that he had just used 144 00:08:16,720 --> 00:08:21,720 Speaker 2: to kill Margaret. She was not killed, she was left 145 00:08:21,760 --> 00:08:24,880 Speaker 2: for dead. But before he walked out of her room, 146 00:08:26,120 --> 00:08:30,960 Speaker 2: he bit her and his mouth bite mark was actually 147 00:08:31,000 --> 00:08:35,480 Speaker 2: like fingerprints, and it left two impressions on her body. 148 00:08:36,559 --> 00:08:41,680 Speaker 2: He closed the door across the hall. The door was open, 149 00:08:42,120 --> 00:08:45,240 Speaker 2: and that was my room. Sound asleep. It was sound 150 00:08:45,320 --> 00:08:48,360 Speaker 2: three in the morning, sound asleep. But I heard our 151 00:08:48,400 --> 00:08:51,640 Speaker 2: door open and swish against the carpet, and it was 152 00:08:51,760 --> 00:08:54,280 Speaker 2: just enough noise to bring me out a conscious of 153 00:08:54,520 --> 00:08:57,280 Speaker 2: deep sleep. And I heard the noise and I didn't 154 00:08:57,320 --> 00:08:59,720 Speaker 2: recognize what it was, but it was something that woke 155 00:08:59,760 --> 00:09:03,280 Speaker 2: me up up. Between our twin beds, we had a 156 00:09:03,320 --> 00:09:06,800 Speaker 2: small foot locker, which was a small chest, and we 157 00:09:06,880 --> 00:09:09,960 Speaker 2: had our books on it and different things, my glasses 158 00:09:10,280 --> 00:09:13,360 Speaker 2: and different things on it. So when this person came 159 00:09:13,400 --> 00:09:15,840 Speaker 2: into our room, it was dark because it was three 160 00:09:15,880 --> 00:09:18,280 Speaker 2: in the morning and the room was dark, and I 161 00:09:18,320 --> 00:09:21,120 Speaker 2: heard something really loud, And what it was was this 162 00:09:21,240 --> 00:09:25,280 Speaker 2: guy tripped over that little foot locker as he was 163 00:09:25,320 --> 00:09:28,360 Speaker 2: coming to my side of the bed. He made so 164 00:09:28,480 --> 00:09:31,320 Speaker 2: much noise. Now I could open my eyes, and in 165 00:09:31,360 --> 00:09:35,400 Speaker 2: the dark, all I could see was a silhouette of 166 00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:39,640 Speaker 2: someone standing next to me. He raised his arm up 167 00:09:39,679 --> 00:09:42,559 Speaker 2: over his head and I could tell he had something 168 00:09:42,559 --> 00:09:45,320 Speaker 2: in his hand. I didn't know what it was, and 169 00:09:45,360 --> 00:09:50,120 Speaker 2: he slammed it down on my face so hard that 170 00:09:50,240 --> 00:09:53,960 Speaker 2: he broke my jaw in three places. My cheek was 171 00:09:54,000 --> 00:09:56,480 Speaker 2: torn open, so you could see the teeth on the 172 00:09:56,480 --> 00:10:01,160 Speaker 2: inside of my mouth. My tongue was almost broken off. 173 00:10:01,520 --> 00:10:04,760 Speaker 2: I had bit through it so tight, and my chin 174 00:10:05,640 --> 00:10:07,560 Speaker 2: did not have any bone in it, so they had 175 00:10:07,640 --> 00:10:10,640 Speaker 2: to create bone. As I was in the emergency room 176 00:10:10,920 --> 00:10:15,360 Speaker 2: being taken care of that night. So this is my state, 177 00:10:16,440 --> 00:10:20,400 Speaker 2: and I'm confused. And then he heard my roommate make noise. 178 00:10:20,920 --> 00:10:24,679 Speaker 2: He attacked my roommate when she woke up, and he 179 00:10:24,760 --> 00:10:26,840 Speaker 2: left her for dead. He thought he had hit her 180 00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:30,920 Speaker 2: so hard. Meanwhile, I'm in the bed next to this 181 00:10:31,720 --> 00:10:35,240 Speaker 2: and I'm screaming and I'm yelling, and all I was 182 00:10:35,280 --> 00:10:39,720 Speaker 2: doing was making gurgly sound. I held my cheek with 183 00:10:39,800 --> 00:10:43,040 Speaker 2: my hands and all they were was hot and sticky. 184 00:10:43,600 --> 00:10:46,040 Speaker 2: When I heard this noise coming back toward my bed, 185 00:10:47,000 --> 00:10:50,520 Speaker 2: I had made myself into the smallest little ball I 186 00:10:50,559 --> 00:10:54,640 Speaker 2: could make myself and hid under the sheet because I 187 00:10:54,679 --> 00:10:57,680 Speaker 2: felt if he didn't see me, he wouldn't hear me, 188 00:10:58,240 --> 00:11:02,800 Speaker 2: he wouldn't kill me. I was so quiet. He had 189 00:11:02,840 --> 00:11:04,599 Speaker 2: that club and he was going to come down on 190 00:11:04,679 --> 00:11:06,960 Speaker 2: my face again, and I knew it. I knew he 191 00:11:07,080 --> 00:11:09,480 Speaker 2: was mad, and I just knew this next blow was 192 00:11:09,520 --> 00:11:12,440 Speaker 2: going to kill me. But as he raised his arm 193 00:11:12,480 --> 00:11:16,000 Speaker 2: again up over his head, the light in the room 194 00:11:16,520 --> 00:11:20,280 Speaker 2: shone really bright. There was a bright light, and I 195 00:11:20,320 --> 00:11:22,400 Speaker 2: could see the shape of him now I could see 196 00:11:22,440 --> 00:11:25,880 Speaker 2: someone standing there and the light was so bright, and 197 00:11:25,920 --> 00:11:28,800 Speaker 2: it was the lights from a car that was bringing 198 00:11:28,840 --> 00:11:31,960 Speaker 2: home a date late that night, and the car light 199 00:11:32,040 --> 00:11:35,560 Speaker 2: shone up into the room illuminated it. And then he 200 00:11:35,640 --> 00:11:38,760 Speaker 2: turned around and left the parking lot, and the room 201 00:11:38,840 --> 00:11:42,960 Speaker 2: grew dark again. But before it was dark, this person 202 00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:46,920 Speaker 2: thought he had been seen, so he ran out our 203 00:11:46,960 --> 00:11:50,920 Speaker 2: bedroom door, ran down those stairs and ran out the 204 00:11:50,960 --> 00:11:56,000 Speaker 2: front door. And I'm crying and I'm hurt. I didn't 205 00:11:56,040 --> 00:11:58,160 Speaker 2: know what I was doing. Like I said, I was 206 00:11:58,240 --> 00:12:02,720 Speaker 2: screaming with no sound was coming out. My roommate woke 207 00:12:02,800 --> 00:12:05,439 Speaker 2: up and went out in the hallway to get help. 208 00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:10,480 Speaker 2: Sorti's sister, founder Arsaar standing there. Took her back into 209 00:12:10,480 --> 00:12:13,520 Speaker 2: our room and turned on the light, and that's when 210 00:12:13,559 --> 00:12:16,079 Speaker 2: she saw me on my side of the bed and 211 00:12:16,120 --> 00:12:19,320 Speaker 2: I'm sitting up holding my face and there's blood on 212 00:12:19,360 --> 00:12:23,760 Speaker 2: the wall and I'm covered in blood. And she became 213 00:12:23,840 --> 00:12:27,120 Speaker 2: ill and called for other Soorti's sisters to come in. 214 00:12:27,800 --> 00:12:30,800 Speaker 2: At that point, my roommate was also had also been attacked, 215 00:12:30,800 --> 00:12:33,960 Speaker 2: and she was full of blood. The next thing I 216 00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:39,079 Speaker 2: remember is that they called nine one one. The girls 217 00:12:39,160 --> 00:12:43,680 Speaker 2: called for help. I remember there was a police officer 218 00:12:44,360 --> 00:12:46,320 Speaker 2: when I woke up, and he was standing at the 219 00:12:46,360 --> 00:12:48,840 Speaker 2: head of the bed and just looked at me with 220 00:12:48,880 --> 00:12:52,800 Speaker 2: such caring eyes, like it's gonna be okay, It'll be 221 00:12:52,840 --> 00:12:57,600 Speaker 2: all right. I'm here now, And through all the shock 222 00:12:57,800 --> 00:13:01,160 Speaker 2: and everything going through, I saw him and I knew 223 00:13:01,160 --> 00:13:03,080 Speaker 2: I was going to be okay. I didn't know who 224 00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:05,720 Speaker 2: had done this, but I knew he wasn't come back 225 00:13:05,760 --> 00:13:07,600 Speaker 2: and hurt me as long as there was a police 226 00:13:07,600 --> 00:13:09,480 Speaker 2: officer standing next to me. 227 00:13:15,080 --> 00:13:18,800 Speaker 1: Now, you've got this police officer there, and you feel safe, 228 00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:21,880 Speaker 1: even though you haven't left the sorority house yet where 229 00:13:21,880 --> 00:13:22,719 Speaker 1: you were attacked. 230 00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:27,040 Speaker 2: Yes, the paramedics came and attended to my wounds. 231 00:13:27,320 --> 00:13:30,400 Speaker 1: Well, here you have been brutally attacked. How did you 232 00:13:30,480 --> 00:13:32,400 Speaker 1: get out of the sorority house. 233 00:13:32,880 --> 00:13:35,800 Speaker 2: The paramedics that came to take care of me put 234 00:13:35,840 --> 00:13:39,360 Speaker 2: me on a stretcher and carried me down those beautiful 235 00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:42,400 Speaker 2: wooden staircase that wasn't as pretty as I thought they were, 236 00:13:43,160 --> 00:13:45,040 Speaker 2: And they went to take me out of the front 237 00:13:45,040 --> 00:13:48,560 Speaker 2: doors of the house, and it was so cold. It 238 00:13:48,600 --> 00:13:52,160 Speaker 2: had turned damp and rainy. It was a terrible night. 239 00:13:52,679 --> 00:13:55,720 Speaker 2: And I had around me was that reflective blanket that's 240 00:13:55,840 --> 00:13:59,280 Speaker 2: over reflected, and that was to keep me warm. But 241 00:13:59,320 --> 00:14:02,840 Speaker 2: I was shivering and scared. And as they walked me 242 00:14:02,920 --> 00:14:06,280 Speaker 2: out of the front door on its sidewalk, I saw 243 00:14:06,320 --> 00:14:10,040 Speaker 2: the police lights and the fire truck lights and the 244 00:14:10,080 --> 00:14:13,880 Speaker 2: ambulance lights, and everything was swirling around and I could 245 00:14:13,920 --> 00:14:18,000 Speaker 2: hear the walkie talkies speaking the police the ambulance, and 246 00:14:18,040 --> 00:14:21,680 Speaker 2: it squawked so loud. I actually thought, for a few minutes, 247 00:14:21,720 --> 00:14:24,960 Speaker 2: I was at a carnival, and I felt safe at 248 00:14:24,960 --> 00:14:28,720 Speaker 2: a carnival because you're not scared there, You're okay. And 249 00:14:28,800 --> 00:14:32,400 Speaker 2: so a few minutes later my carnival went away and 250 00:14:32,440 --> 00:14:35,320 Speaker 2: I was taken into the ambulance and taken to the hospital. 251 00:14:36,120 --> 00:14:40,320 Speaker 1: I can't imagine that chaos. I can't imagine being so 252 00:14:40,560 --> 00:14:44,280 Speaker 1: disoriented that you, even for a moment, could think you 253 00:14:44,320 --> 00:14:47,640 Speaker 1: were at a carnival. But I understand your visual. When 254 00:14:47,720 --> 00:14:50,320 Speaker 1: you got into the ambulance. Did the police officer go 255 00:14:50,400 --> 00:14:50,680 Speaker 1: with you? 256 00:14:51,160 --> 00:14:53,720 Speaker 2: He was right behind the door when they closed the door. 257 00:14:53,760 --> 00:14:57,040 Speaker 2: It was the paramedics and myself that went to the hospital, 258 00:14:57,560 --> 00:14:59,520 Speaker 2: But as soon as they took me into the hospital 259 00:14:59,560 --> 00:15:03,080 Speaker 2: emerging sea room, he was right there again, right next 260 00:15:03,120 --> 00:15:06,120 Speaker 2: to me. And I think he felt as much as 261 00:15:06,200 --> 00:15:09,280 Speaker 2: I did that I needed protection because no one knew 262 00:15:09,280 --> 00:15:11,920 Speaker 2: who did this to me, or if they're around the 263 00:15:11,960 --> 00:15:13,320 Speaker 2: corner or coming back. 264 00:15:13,880 --> 00:15:14,520 Speaker 3: So I think this. 265 00:15:16,160 --> 00:15:20,160 Speaker 2: Policeman felt as protective of me as I needed of him. 266 00:15:21,120 --> 00:15:23,520 Speaker 2: So as I'm in the operating room and they're doing 267 00:15:23,560 --> 00:15:25,520 Speaker 2: all the things they needed to do. They cut off 268 00:15:25,760 --> 00:15:29,520 Speaker 2: my beautiful flannel yellow nightgown which I had gotten at Christmas, 269 00:15:30,080 --> 00:15:33,040 Speaker 2: and it was just just a weird time. It was 270 00:15:33,160 --> 00:15:36,800 Speaker 2: just I couldn't I couldn't comprehend anything. And then they 271 00:15:36,840 --> 00:15:40,800 Speaker 2: gave me the payments so I could calm down, and 272 00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:43,560 Speaker 2: then I really don't remember anything after that until I 273 00:15:43,600 --> 00:15:45,240 Speaker 2: woke up in my hospital room. 274 00:15:46,120 --> 00:15:49,640 Speaker 1: At what point did you learn about the other sorority 275 00:15:49,720 --> 00:15:50,960 Speaker 1: sisters that had been murdered. 276 00:15:51,520 --> 00:15:53,320 Speaker 3: It was about two weeks later. 277 00:15:53,680 --> 00:15:56,160 Speaker 2: I had already been taken home to Miami to be 278 00:15:56,760 --> 00:16:00,840 Speaker 2: to recuperate at my parents' house. My mother had me 279 00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:05,000 Speaker 2: watching TV, but only soap operas and only TV game 280 00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:07,600 Speaker 2: shows because she did not want me to hear the 281 00:16:07,640 --> 00:16:11,360 Speaker 2: news because she was afraid that I would be upset 282 00:16:11,440 --> 00:16:14,160 Speaker 2: and she wanted to keep me calm. I had my 283 00:16:14,480 --> 00:16:18,320 Speaker 2: jaw wired at that point, and it was tied around 284 00:16:18,360 --> 00:16:21,120 Speaker 2: my mouth so I couldn't speak. And when I read 285 00:16:21,120 --> 00:16:24,280 Speaker 2: the newspaper, you picked it up and there were square 286 00:16:24,720 --> 00:16:28,200 Speaker 2: articles that were cut out out of the newspaper, and 287 00:16:28,280 --> 00:16:31,840 Speaker 2: each article is about Bundy or the ky Omega house 288 00:16:32,360 --> 00:16:35,640 Speaker 2: or anything to do with the attack. So she cut 289 00:16:35,680 --> 00:16:38,200 Speaker 2: everything out so I wouldn't read about it. So I 290 00:16:38,280 --> 00:16:42,200 Speaker 2: read the newspaper kind of sparingly, and that's when I 291 00:16:42,240 --> 00:16:46,520 Speaker 2: found out about two weeks later, they had found Bundy. 292 00:16:47,320 --> 00:16:49,720 Speaker 2: They found him in Pensacola when he was trying to 293 00:16:49,800 --> 00:16:55,200 Speaker 2: leave the state on a traffic violation. They went ahead 294 00:16:55,360 --> 00:16:59,800 Speaker 2: and arrested him. And that's the police officers in Leon 295 00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:05,200 Speaker 2: and Tallahassee and the officers right outside of Pensacola. They 296 00:17:05,200 --> 00:17:08,320 Speaker 2: were the two putting things together, and that's how they 297 00:17:08,359 --> 00:17:11,200 Speaker 2: thought he was the one that came into our sorority house. 298 00:17:12,200 --> 00:17:17,719 Speaker 1: Yeah, that was unbelievable. Teamwork and police worked simultaneously. So 299 00:17:17,840 --> 00:17:20,359 Speaker 1: now it's time for the trial, and you've got to 300 00:17:20,359 --> 00:17:23,720 Speaker 1: go to the courthouse a couple of times. What occurred 301 00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:27,280 Speaker 1: during the first visit to the courthouse for you. 302 00:17:27,840 --> 00:17:29,919 Speaker 2: The first time I was taken in, it was I 303 00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:34,040 Speaker 2: was subpoenaed for the deposition, and I walked into this 304 00:17:34,119 --> 00:17:38,120 Speaker 2: big room with a long conference table, and on each 305 00:17:38,160 --> 00:17:41,720 Speaker 2: side at the table there were the defense lawyers and 306 00:17:41,800 --> 00:17:44,919 Speaker 2: the prosecution sat on the other side of the table. 307 00:17:45,480 --> 00:17:48,280 Speaker 2: And I sat down and I looked up and at 308 00:17:48,320 --> 00:17:51,600 Speaker 2: the head of the table on the other end sat 309 00:17:51,640 --> 00:17:55,919 Speaker 2: ted Bundy, and I looked at him and I just 310 00:17:56,000 --> 00:17:59,439 Speaker 2: stared at him because all the build up then everything 311 00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:03,920 Speaker 2: about the Ted Bundy. I wasn't impressed, I wasn't scared. 312 00:18:04,200 --> 00:18:07,119 Speaker 2: I just looked at a guy who was like really 313 00:18:07,160 --> 00:18:11,679 Speaker 2: fidgety and seemed not to have any self worth or 314 00:18:12,080 --> 00:18:14,719 Speaker 2: he just kind of sat there and I looked at 315 00:18:14,760 --> 00:18:17,239 Speaker 2: him and I saw dark eyes. I didn't see what 316 00:18:17,320 --> 00:18:21,280 Speaker 2: color they were. I just saw black. And I did 317 00:18:21,320 --> 00:18:23,919 Speaker 2: not put a horn or horns on him because I 318 00:18:23,960 --> 00:18:28,359 Speaker 2: had not not gotten that far into understanding how the 319 00:18:28,440 --> 00:18:31,720 Speaker 2: law system worked. So that was the first time I 320 00:18:31,760 --> 00:18:34,000 Speaker 2: saw Ted Bundy after the attack. 321 00:18:34,400 --> 00:18:36,560 Speaker 1: So you're saying you didn't put horns on him because 322 00:18:36,560 --> 00:18:38,040 Speaker 1: you didn't see him as the devil. 323 00:18:38,840 --> 00:18:40,640 Speaker 3: No, I did not. At that point. 324 00:18:40,720 --> 00:18:42,919 Speaker 2: I was scared and I looked at something at the 325 00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:46,359 Speaker 2: other end and it wasn't It wasn't normal what I 326 00:18:46,400 --> 00:18:50,399 Speaker 2: was looking at. But in my mind, I just I 327 00:18:50,440 --> 00:18:53,200 Speaker 2: thought he was the devil. But I just mentally put 328 00:18:53,200 --> 00:18:55,720 Speaker 2: horns on him and made that my feeling. 329 00:18:56,440 --> 00:18:59,080 Speaker 1: So then you had to go to the trial gott 330 00:18:59,080 --> 00:19:02,000 Speaker 1: in a subpoena. You've gone to the courthouse once and 331 00:19:02,040 --> 00:19:03,920 Speaker 1: had to stare him down and now you've gone through 332 00:19:03,960 --> 00:19:07,520 Speaker 1: the grand jury and a trial is set, and you know, 333 00:19:08,040 --> 00:19:13,399 Speaker 1: I've just got to say, you lived through something and 334 00:19:13,440 --> 00:19:17,600 Speaker 1: were able to give information, a knowledge about something that 335 00:19:17,760 --> 00:19:21,800 Speaker 1: is super rare. I think it's such a gift that 336 00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:27,800 Speaker 1: you're able to tell law enforcement, tell criminologists, tell all 337 00:19:27,920 --> 00:19:33,879 Speaker 1: these experts what this rampage sounded like. And I just 338 00:19:33,960 --> 00:19:36,520 Speaker 1: think the way you were telling us about the bedroom, 339 00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:40,119 Speaker 1: the way he came in quietly, the way he picked 340 00:19:40,119 --> 00:19:41,880 Speaker 1: a log up on the way in, so he didn't 341 00:19:41,920 --> 00:19:45,520 Speaker 1: even bring the weapon with him. He was just going 342 00:19:45,640 --> 00:19:48,160 Speaker 1: to room to room to see which doors were unlocked. 343 00:19:48,640 --> 00:19:51,240 Speaker 1: And he was attacking people he had never spoken to, 344 00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:58,160 Speaker 1: had never stalked, didn't know. That is so important because 345 00:19:58,200 --> 00:20:01,600 Speaker 1: prior to that, you had a ton of people that 346 00:20:01,720 --> 00:20:05,320 Speaker 1: would have believed in an event like that, there would 347 00:20:05,359 --> 00:20:08,479 Speaker 1: have been so much noise. He would have been yelling 348 00:20:08,560 --> 00:20:12,000 Speaker 1: and screaming I'm going to kill you all, and making 349 00:20:12,119 --> 00:20:18,760 Speaker 1: threats and maybe grunting and moaning. But to you, there 350 00:20:18,880 --> 00:20:21,400 Speaker 1: was nothing. He never said a word. 351 00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:22,320 Speaker 3: That's true. 352 00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:25,040 Speaker 2: He just walked in and the only noise I heard 353 00:20:25,560 --> 00:20:28,480 Speaker 2: was when he tripped over that little footstool that we 354 00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:31,320 Speaker 2: had between our beds, and that's when I woke up, 355 00:20:31,359 --> 00:20:34,720 Speaker 2: and that's the first noise I had. But he didn't 356 00:20:34,720 --> 00:20:37,919 Speaker 2: speak to us, He didn't say anything. He was just 357 00:20:38,040 --> 00:20:42,560 Speaker 2: doing this like a madman. He was quiet and stealth 358 00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:44,680 Speaker 2: and he was getting his job done. 359 00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:48,360 Speaker 1: See how important that is, though, even when people ask 360 00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:54,600 Speaker 1: questions about the four college students that were killed in Moscow, Idaho, 361 00:20:55,119 --> 00:20:57,399 Speaker 1: and they say, well, the other two roommates had to 362 00:20:57,440 --> 00:21:00,959 Speaker 1: have heard something. Not according to an expert that I 363 00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:04,600 Speaker 1: know who lived through it, when four college students were 364 00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:08,240 Speaker 1: attacked in the same house, not a word was spoken, 365 00:21:09,040 --> 00:21:13,240 Speaker 1: and that's critical information. So I just wanted to say 366 00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:17,080 Speaker 1: how much I appreciated that. So now the trial is set, 367 00:21:17,760 --> 00:21:20,480 Speaker 1: and you're living with your parents in Miami, and you've 368 00:21:20,520 --> 00:21:21,760 Speaker 1: got to come back for trial. 369 00:21:21,840 --> 00:21:24,760 Speaker 2: What happens The day set for the morning of the 370 00:21:24,800 --> 00:21:27,960 Speaker 2: trial for me to testify, And I woke up in 371 00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:31,080 Speaker 2: the morning and I put on my pretty red dress 372 00:21:31,840 --> 00:21:35,040 Speaker 2: and my white sandals, and I was so pretty, and 373 00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:37,159 Speaker 2: I put my hair up, and it looked like I 374 00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:41,080 Speaker 2: was going somewhere else other than a trial for someone 375 00:21:41,119 --> 00:21:44,119 Speaker 2: that had attempted to kill me. So it was my 376 00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:46,679 Speaker 2: turn to go on the witness stand and I walked 377 00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:49,840 Speaker 2: up and I sat down, and I looked around the room. 378 00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:54,159 Speaker 2: There was the jury, there was the prosecuting at one table. 379 00:21:54,920 --> 00:21:58,119 Speaker 2: There was the defense on the other table, and next 380 00:21:58,160 --> 00:22:02,879 Speaker 2: to them was Ted Bundy, sitting again looking at me. 381 00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:07,520 Speaker 2: I never took my eyes off of him. And as 382 00:22:07,560 --> 00:22:10,120 Speaker 2: he was sitting, he had his elbow on the table 383 00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:13,800 Speaker 2: and he had his chin couped up in his hand, 384 00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:17,639 Speaker 2: and he looked like, you know, this is a waste 385 00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:20,760 Speaker 2: of my time. I'm never going to be convicted. The 386 00:22:20,840 --> 00:22:23,399 Speaker 2: whole time, every time I saw him, he was just 387 00:22:23,480 --> 00:22:26,240 Speaker 2: like so full of himself, like this was a waste 388 00:22:26,280 --> 00:22:29,120 Speaker 2: of his time, no one would convict him of doing 389 00:22:29,160 --> 00:22:34,439 Speaker 2: anything wrong. And then I testified and one of the 390 00:22:34,520 --> 00:22:40,760 Speaker 2: questions the defense attorneys asked was is this the man 391 00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:45,920 Speaker 2: you accuse of attacking you in your room that night 392 00:22:46,119 --> 00:22:50,320 Speaker 2: in the Kyomega sorority house. And I looked at Ted 393 00:22:50,440 --> 00:22:54,280 Speaker 2: Bundy and I had to shake my head and say no, 394 00:22:55,040 --> 00:22:58,960 Speaker 2: I didn't know if that was him because I never 395 00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:02,879 Speaker 2: saw his face. And it hurt me so much that 396 00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:06,560 Speaker 2: I couldn't help convict him. I couldn't help to say 397 00:23:06,600 --> 00:23:09,800 Speaker 2: the things that I needed. I wanted to say so 398 00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:13,880 Speaker 2: that the jury knew my feelings, and so I said no, 399 00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:17,000 Speaker 2: and that was the end of my witness That was 400 00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:19,760 Speaker 2: I had to get up and leave the witness box. 401 00:23:20,359 --> 00:23:23,639 Speaker 1: Well, I just want to say something. I am your friend, 402 00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:28,000 Speaker 1: and I love you and I respect you. But this 403 00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:30,359 Speaker 1: is not the reason I am saying what I'm about 404 00:23:30,359 --> 00:23:36,919 Speaker 1: to say. Nobody could hear your testimony about how this 405 00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:40,639 Speaker 1: person walked into your room with a log that he 406 00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:45,080 Speaker 1: had already killed two people with and bludgeon you, and 407 00:23:45,119 --> 00:23:49,080 Speaker 1: then go to your roommate and bludgeon her, and was 408 00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:53,600 Speaker 1: on his way back to you when only a hand 409 00:23:53,640 --> 00:24:00,400 Speaker 1: of God moment stopped him. There's no way that testimony 410 00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:04,919 Speaker 1: didn't help convict him, honey, because you were the only 411 00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:10,359 Speaker 1: person that could describe what went on in that room, 412 00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:15,320 Speaker 1: in that space, in that moment. You're the only one. 413 00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:21,480 Speaker 1: Without you, there's suspicion, there's conjecture. We don't know what 414 00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:24,879 Speaker 1: roomy went into first, but because of you, we know, 415 00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:28,680 Speaker 1: and we know that he did it without saying a word. 416 00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:36,679 Speaker 1: None of this is easy, None of this is easy 417 00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:40,520 Speaker 1: to bring back up and talk about, but your willingness 418 00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:44,080 Speaker 1: to do it helps so many people it helps young 419 00:24:44,359 --> 00:24:48,719 Speaker 1: police officers, it helps rookie detectives, it helps veteran detectives. 420 00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:52,439 Speaker 1: It helps people understand. If I'm going to be on 421 00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:56,200 Speaker 1: a jury and they're asking me, could the other two 422 00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:58,720 Speaker 1: people in Moscow, Idaho not have heard a whole bunch 423 00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:02,439 Speaker 1: of talking and threats and hollering and screaming. I can 424 00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:05,960 Speaker 1: answer that for them because of you. I know that 425 00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:09,520 Speaker 1: with one hundred percent clarity it was true. 426 00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:12,720 Speaker 2: And I'm thinking about that evening right now, and I 427 00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:16,520 Speaker 2: put myself in that same position, and I see that 428 00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:19,040 Speaker 2: light in my room, and I know that's the light 429 00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:21,479 Speaker 2: that was going to help me live. I knew he 430 00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:23,040 Speaker 2: was going to hit me with the light on, and 431 00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:26,480 Speaker 2: I saw him being squirrely and antsy, and that's when 432 00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:28,879 Speaker 2: he left the room. And I was still on my 433 00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:32,639 Speaker 2: littlest ball, but I could tell the room got dark again, 434 00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:34,920 Speaker 2: and I just knew he was going to come back 435 00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:35,480 Speaker 2: and kill me. 436 00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:37,080 Speaker 3: But he didn't. 437 00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:41,240 Speaker 2: He left the sorority house because of the light that 438 00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:42,480 Speaker 2: shone up into my room. 439 00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:45,959 Speaker 1: And speaking of that, you wrote a book with the 440 00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:50,600 Speaker 1: greatest title. It's called A Light in the Dark. Surviving 441 00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:55,439 Speaker 1: More than Ted Bundy by Kathy Kleiner. It's an awesome book, Kathy. 442 00:25:55,880 --> 00:26:00,200 Speaker 1: I mean, you have poured your whole life into this thing. Now, 443 00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:03,159 Speaker 1: when you were at trial, did you have a chance 444 00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:06,520 Speaker 1: to see your detective or were y'all kept separate since 445 00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:07,600 Speaker 1: you were both witnesses? 446 00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:08,960 Speaker 3: We were kept separate. 447 00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:12,119 Speaker 2: Well, there was a conference room and all the people 448 00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:16,479 Speaker 2: were the people involved, the police officers and then the 449 00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:20,760 Speaker 2: paramedics and the other people involved were in that room. 450 00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:23,960 Speaker 2: And I saw the policeman and I get I went 451 00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:27,280 Speaker 2: and got the biggest hug because he was the one 452 00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:29,960 Speaker 2: that I felt saved me. He was standing over me 453 00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:33,680 Speaker 2: and he was protecting me. And I gave the paramedics 454 00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:37,080 Speaker 2: such hugs because they're the ones that put me back 455 00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:40,120 Speaker 2: together until I could get to the hospital. And all 456 00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:44,640 Speaker 2: these grand people, I just I give my heart out too. 457 00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:48,960 Speaker 2: And also someone I knew that was working behind the 458 00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:54,000 Speaker 2: scenes with Ken Kassaris. He was the sheriff of Leon 459 00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:57,480 Speaker 2: County and he was in charge of the prison there, 460 00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:02,520 Speaker 2: and I know he had his people behind him working, 461 00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:05,199 Speaker 2: but he was always, in my mind, one of the 462 00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:09,080 Speaker 2: greatest people I can remember, because he did take care 463 00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:11,440 Speaker 2: of Bundy, he did see it through. 464 00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:12,640 Speaker 3: He saw that he. 465 00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:15,680 Speaker 2: Was executed, and I just I would love to ask 466 00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:18,400 Speaker 2: him questions about that, because there's so many I would 467 00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:21,919 Speaker 2: have and I'd like to I'd like to talk to 468 00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:24,800 Speaker 2: him and let him help explain himself in what he 469 00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:29,359 Speaker 2: was feeling. So I look forward to talking to Kin Kassars. 470 00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:32,040 Speaker 1: You know, there's nothing like a battle, buddy, and the 471 00:27:32,119 --> 00:27:36,760 Speaker 1: two of y'all have had such an amazing road to justice. 472 00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:39,639 Speaker 1: You know, you're talking about one of the biggest serial 473 00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:43,280 Speaker 1: killers known in the United States, one of the most famous, 474 00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:46,840 Speaker 1: for sure, and you're talking about somebody that helped put 475 00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:50,919 Speaker 1: him away just like you did. Y'all being able to 476 00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:54,480 Speaker 1: reconnect and talk and talk about the way you saw 477 00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:56,800 Speaker 1: it and talk about the way he saw it. I 478 00:27:56,800 --> 00:27:58,879 Speaker 1: think it would be a powerful thing if he just 479 00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:01,960 Speaker 1: knew how much his presence in the presence of the 480 00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:05,080 Speaker 1: other officers helped you, Because he may not. 481 00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:07,040 Speaker 3: Know that, I hope he does. 482 00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:09,400 Speaker 2: In my heart, I think he does, because so many 483 00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:11,919 Speaker 2: years I've held on to him and I saw him 484 00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:18,040 Speaker 2: as my protector and Bundy's executor, and it was It's 485 00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:20,679 Speaker 2: always been in my heart that way, and I have 486 00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:25,720 Speaker 2: such respect and such love for police officers. They were 487 00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:29,240 Speaker 2: sent at my house in Miami because they weren't sure 488 00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:31,960 Speaker 2: it was Bundy at first. So there was a police 489 00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:35,520 Speaker 2: officer by my door, my front door, and I remember 490 00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:38,760 Speaker 2: my mom used to go outside and offer lemonade and cookies, 491 00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:42,000 Speaker 2: and there was a police officer across the street in 492 00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:45,040 Speaker 2: a marked car. Just sit there and there you go 493 00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:48,880 Speaker 2: across the street with lemonade and cookies. So these people, 494 00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:51,000 Speaker 2: for two weeks became someone. 495 00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:51,440 Speaker 3: We got to know. 496 00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:55,080 Speaker 2: And my mouth was all wired shut and my face 497 00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:58,040 Speaker 2: was bandaged, and I would look out the front door 498 00:28:58,040 --> 00:29:00,040 Speaker 2: and see him and knew I was safe again. And 499 00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:02,680 Speaker 2: I knew someone was going to come in the back 500 00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:04,760 Speaker 2: door in the front door, and it hit me or 501 00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:08,560 Speaker 2: hurt me because those police officers were following through and 502 00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:10,280 Speaker 2: they were they were my help. 503 00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:15,320 Speaker 1: So you've had loopis, you've been attacked by Ted Bundy, 504 00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:18,760 Speaker 1: but your life is now going to have another challenge. 505 00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:21,920 Speaker 1: You are diagnosed with breast cancer. 506 00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:26,480 Speaker 2: I was thirty four years old. I had remarried from 507 00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:30,200 Speaker 2: my first marriage, and I was happy and we wanted 508 00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:34,400 Speaker 2: to have a baby. So I went to gyn who 509 00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:38,080 Speaker 2: was familiar with lupus, and went to him to have 510 00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:42,360 Speaker 2: a free test a healing test to make sure I 511 00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:46,120 Speaker 2: was healthy enough, and he found a lump in my breast. 512 00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:49,880 Speaker 2: There was no history of breast cancer on either side 513 00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:54,440 Speaker 2: of my family, so we went in and aspirated the lump, 514 00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:58,160 Speaker 2: and I went in and had a radical messed ectomy 515 00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:01,959 Speaker 2: and all my glands were taken out from under my arms. 516 00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:06,240 Speaker 2: Then I had to go through reconstruction surgery. After my 517 00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:11,040 Speaker 2: removal of my breast, I had eight months a chemo 518 00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:14,000 Speaker 2: to look forward to. And I was sad, and I 519 00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:16,600 Speaker 2: was mad, and I was hurt, and I would pray 520 00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:20,680 Speaker 2: and I had all these feelings like not again, you know, 521 00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:24,160 Speaker 2: no chemo, anything else but chemo. But no, that was 522 00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:27,120 Speaker 2: what I had to do. So I went in and 523 00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:29,720 Speaker 2: I lost part of my hair. I didn't I never 524 00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:33,040 Speaker 2: became bald like I did before. So I went to 525 00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:36,640 Speaker 2: the doctor's office, to the clinic and had a chemo session, 526 00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:41,120 Speaker 2: and then a couple of weeks later I had to 527 00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:45,000 Speaker 2: go in and have another clinic session. And I told 528 00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:47,960 Speaker 2: my husband, I have one more to go. I have 529 00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:51,160 Speaker 2: one more chemo to go, and he no, you have 530 00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:54,040 Speaker 2: seven more to go. I said, no, I have one. 531 00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:56,920 Speaker 2: I can get through one, but I don't know if 532 00:30:56,960 --> 00:31:01,160 Speaker 2: I can get through seven. So every week when it 533 00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:05,800 Speaker 2: was time, I took my chemo and I only had 534 00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:08,959 Speaker 2: one more left to do. And when I did finish 535 00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:13,680 Speaker 2: that last chemo, it felt so good. And my husband 536 00:31:13,680 --> 00:31:15,880 Speaker 2: and I then wanted to try to have a baby. 537 00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:22,480 Speaker 2: We became pregnant and at twelve weeks I had a miscarriage. 538 00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:27,120 Speaker 2: Now I know women have miscarriages, and I feel their pain, 539 00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:31,560 Speaker 2: I really do. But I could take care of myself. 540 00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:35,320 Speaker 2: I can get through things, but I couldn't. 541 00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:35,760 Speaker 3: Help my baby. 542 00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:39,760 Speaker 2: I couldn't do anything to make it right for my baby. 543 00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:43,280 Speaker 2: That was hard. That was a hard time for us. 544 00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:47,400 Speaker 2: And then about nine weeks nine months after that, I 545 00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:52,040 Speaker 2: became pregnant again, and again at twelve weeks I had 546 00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:56,240 Speaker 2: another miscarriage, and I knew I couldn't do this anymore. 547 00:31:56,880 --> 00:32:00,040 Speaker 2: I couldn't mentally, physically. I just didn't want to do 548 00:31:59,920 --> 00:32:03,560 Speaker 2: it anymore. So my husband I talked about it and 549 00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:06,360 Speaker 2: we decided we were fine. We didn't need a baby, 550 00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:10,040 Speaker 2: but we did go out and buy a sailboat and 551 00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:12,360 Speaker 2: we named her Sally, and that was our new baby. 552 00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:17,240 Speaker 1: So I know, while you were recuperating from all the 553 00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:21,120 Speaker 1: injuries from the attack by Ted, Bundy. You had a 554 00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:23,920 Speaker 1: way of dealing with that that was just beautiful. Can 555 00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:24,920 Speaker 1: you tell us about it? 556 00:32:25,520 --> 00:32:26,200 Speaker 3: Yes, I can. 557 00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:30,280 Speaker 2: First off, I tried every day to do something to 558 00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:33,600 Speaker 2: put me in a happy place. Either I went outside 559 00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:36,320 Speaker 2: and sat down and had the son on my face, 560 00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:39,959 Speaker 2: or I do my nails, or I'd take a walk, 561 00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:42,680 Speaker 2: any little thing I could think of to break up 562 00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:46,240 Speaker 2: my week or my day. But one of the biggest 563 00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:49,920 Speaker 2: things I did is right after the attack, I felt 564 00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:53,040 Speaker 2: like I had this black monster behind me, kind of 565 00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:57,000 Speaker 2: in a black cloak and just wrapped around me. And 566 00:32:57,040 --> 00:33:00,120 Speaker 2: it was horrible and it was scary and it hurt me, 567 00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:03,000 Speaker 2: and I didn't want to live like this. I didn't 568 00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:04,920 Speaker 2: want to live in a box, and I didn't want 569 00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:08,760 Speaker 2: to live scared because I had been through too much 570 00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:10,960 Speaker 2: with lupus and I knew how good it was on 571 00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:15,640 Speaker 2: the other side. But this Bundy attack kind of put 572 00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:19,080 Speaker 2: me in a deeper, a deeper space, and I was mad. 573 00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:22,040 Speaker 2: I was mad at the sorority for me having to 574 00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:24,440 Speaker 2: leave them. I was mad for having to leave the 575 00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:28,040 Speaker 2: university and the Coyomega sisters. So I was in a 576 00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:31,040 Speaker 2: bad place and I didn't want to live like that. 577 00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:35,760 Speaker 2: So I looked out way out in the ocean with 578 00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:39,600 Speaker 2: a little bitty island, and on the island was a 579 00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:44,280 Speaker 2: little palm tree and one little sand chair, and I 580 00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:47,680 Speaker 2: wanted to get to that island because I thought I 581 00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:53,000 Speaker 2: needed to. So I took baby steps. I took baby 582 00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:56,680 Speaker 2: steps toward that island. It must have taken me maybe 583 00:33:56,840 --> 00:33:59,720 Speaker 2: a week and a half. With my baby steps, I 584 00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:01,959 Speaker 2: could and do them every day. Some days I just 585 00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:04,080 Speaker 2: didn't want to do it, and I gave in and 586 00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:08,080 Speaker 2: felt sorry for myself. But when I did, I took 587 00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:12,000 Speaker 2: baby steps and I looked behind me, and this black 588 00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:17,440 Speaker 2: mass was baby steps behind me. So I kept going 589 00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:21,160 Speaker 2: to my island, and I finally reached it, and I 590 00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:24,360 Speaker 2: sat in the chair, put my toes in the sand, 591 00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:28,000 Speaker 2: and I looked up and there was no black mass 592 00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:32,600 Speaker 2: ahead of me. This thing, this feeling, this scared just. 593 00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:35,000 Speaker 3: Piece was totally gone. 594 00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:38,480 Speaker 2: I had walked baby steps away from it, and I 595 00:34:38,560 --> 00:34:42,400 Speaker 2: felt so good for myself, so strong now that I 596 00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:45,960 Speaker 2: knew I can get through this. But then I had 597 00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:49,920 Speaker 2: another issue that I was afraid of men. And it 598 00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:51,880 Speaker 2: wasn't so much I thought all men were going to 599 00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:52,400 Speaker 2: attack me. 600 00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:53,799 Speaker 3: It was just in a. 601 00:34:53,680 --> 00:34:56,840 Speaker 2: Certain situation where I was uncomfortable or something. I felt 602 00:34:56,920 --> 00:34:59,680 Speaker 2: like a man could hurt me, and I didn't want 603 00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:02,520 Speaker 2: to live like that either. So as soon as my 604 00:35:02,719 --> 00:35:07,480 Speaker 2: jaw was opened up, it took nine weeks closed to recuperate. 605 00:35:08,440 --> 00:35:11,160 Speaker 2: I had this fear of men. So I went to 606 00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:14,600 Speaker 2: work at a lumberyard, and I figured where was I 607 00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:17,080 Speaker 2: going to see the most men in the shortest amount 608 00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:20,279 Speaker 2: of time. So I worked there for about three weeks, 609 00:35:20,719 --> 00:35:23,520 Speaker 2: and you know, there's not a problem that you know, 610 00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:26,040 Speaker 2: guys weren't going to hurt me. I got that phobia 611 00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:29,719 Speaker 2: out of my system. But I did learn that there 612 00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:34,120 Speaker 2: are a lot of cute construction workers and they all 613 00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:35,320 Speaker 2: are very nice. 614 00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:39,000 Speaker 1: Okay, single ladies listening to his own seven. That's some 615 00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:45,399 Speaker 1: stereo advice right there. Brilliant, brilliant. But again, I mean 616 00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:49,799 Speaker 1: that's you saying, Okay, I've got this little issue that 617 00:35:49,880 --> 00:35:52,160 Speaker 1: I'm afraid of men. Not that they're going to attack me, 618 00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:54,839 Speaker 1: but I mean I had a bad event with one, 619 00:35:55,080 --> 00:35:56,840 Speaker 1: so I don't want to put myself in a situation 620 00:35:56,880 --> 00:35:58,960 Speaker 1: where I could be hurt again. And you go to 621 00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:02,440 Speaker 1: get a job at a lumber where you are surrounded 622 00:36:03,080 --> 00:36:08,080 Speaker 1: by men, I mean that's just an awe inspiring story. 623 00:36:08,120 --> 00:36:08,560 Speaker 3: Thank you. 624 00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:13,040 Speaker 1: In the next episode, you're going to hear from an 625 00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:17,640 Speaker 1: icon and I cannot wait. There are sometimes in this 626 00:36:17,719 --> 00:36:20,279 Speaker 1: business your heart just gets pulled into something. It's an 627 00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:26,040 Speaker 1: absolute honor to welcome former Leong County Sheriff Ken Cassaris. 628 00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:29,960 Speaker 1: He never forgot about Kathy. I'm going to end Zone 629 00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:32,480 Speaker 1: seven the way that I always do with a quote. 630 00:36:33,200 --> 00:36:37,360 Speaker 1: A wise woman whishes to be no one's enemy. A 631 00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:44,359 Speaker 1: wise woman refuses to be anyone's victim. Maya Angelou. I'm 632 00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:47,360 Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum, and this is Zone seven.