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Speaker 1: Good evening, America.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to this special edition of Justin News, No Noise. Tonight,

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Speaker 2: we are partnering with the American Conservation Coalition to discuss

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Speaker 2: a number of important subjects, like energy policy under the

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Speaker 2: incoming Trump administration, as well as environmental policies, because President

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Speaker 2: Trump has a once in a generation opportunity to do

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Speaker 2: much better on both counts than prior administrations. A lot

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Speaker 2: of Americans care about the environment, a lot of Americans

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Speaker 2: care about the energy supply.

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Speaker 1: They don't buy into the New Green Deal.

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Speaker 2: Polling clearly shows that that's the case. But there is

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Speaker 2: an extraordinary opportunity to make the environment cleaner while making

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Speaker 2: energy more plentiful in this country, something that's going to

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Speaker 2: be essential as we enter into a new era of

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Speaker 2: technology and the AI generation of America takes effect.

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Speaker 1: We're going to need more.

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Speaker 2: Power and it can be done more cleanly and more

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Speaker 2: abundantly than prior administrations have achieved. Nuclear natural gas combine

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Speaker 2: could be really, really a powerful team. But to get there,

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Speaker 2: there's a lot of things that have to change, including

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Speaker 2: the regulatory structure in this great country. It is impossible

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Speaker 2: to get energy projects started without months and years of delay.

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Speaker 2: A thing called NEPA reform. It sounds like a four

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Speaker 2: letter word, and it is an EPA. The National Environmental

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Speaker 2: Protection Acting goes all the way back to the Richard

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Speaker 2: Nixon years, but it has become, instead of a good

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Speaker 2: thing for the environment, a stranglehold around the entire economy.

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Speaker 2: And there's been some really important groundwork laid in twenty

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Speaker 2: twenty four to set the stage for some sort of reforms.

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Speaker 2: Those reforms become the springboard to an entire new generation

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Speaker 2: of energy generation in America, as well as a cleaner

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Speaker 2: form of energy with nuclear and natural gas combining quickly

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Speaker 2: to move our energy needs for We've got an all

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Speaker 2: star panel tonight to talk about these opportunities. You probably

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Speaker 2: haven't heard a lot about them because they don't get

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Speaker 2: talked about in the legacy press very much, but they

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Speaker 2: are some of the most important opportunities that the incoming

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Speaker 2: Trump administration will have. Joining us right now to kick

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Speaker 2: us off on this great conversation, the senior president at

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Speaker 2: Boundary Stone Partners, a group that deals with clean energy

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Speaker 2: financed domestic politics, in Morris. He's also the co chair

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Speaker 2: of America Builds Coalition. That's a pretty exciting group. Somebody

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Speaker 2: that's leading the permitting reform here in Washington, DC. And

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Speaker 2: also she worked previously in House Speaker Kevin McCarthy's office.

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Speaker 2: Joining us now, Emily, Emily, good to have you on

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Speaker 2: the show.

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Speaker 3: Thanks so much for having me.

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Speaker 2: This is an exciting issue, and I want to start

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Speaker 2: off with something that I think has become more apparent

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Speaker 2: to the American public. For the last twenty years, the

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Speaker 2: environmental dialogue has been dominated by the far left in America.

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Speaker 1: But before that.

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Speaker 2: Time, Republicans were really the big conservations in this country.

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Speaker 2: Teddy Rosevelt with the National Parks, Ronald Reagan with all

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Speaker 2: he did during his presidency. Is this the moment that

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Speaker 2: Trump the second administration where conservators reclaim the conservation mantle.

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Speaker 3: It certainly could be.

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Speaker 4: I think we have a unique opportunity here where the

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Speaker 4: needs to build and meet our growing power demands from

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Speaker 4: AI and data centers and manufacturing. That is just a

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Speaker 4: core part of what President Trump believes in as he

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Speaker 4: comes back to the White House. Those things really intersect

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Speaker 4: well with the exact kind of reforms we need to

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Speaker 4: best take care of our lands, our forests, and our

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Speaker 4: wilderness areas and preserve them for future generations.

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Speaker 3: Ironically, you mentioned this in your opening.

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Speaker 4: The National Energy Policy Acts NEPA is one of the

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Speaker 4: biggest hurdles.

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Speaker 3: To protecting our forests in the West.

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Speaker 4: Just like it's a big hurdle for building new transmission

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Speaker 4: lines and natural gas power plants and renewable energy.

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Speaker 3: Across the country.

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Speaker 4: So it's bringing together these groups of stakeholders that didn't

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Speaker 4: work together in the past for a shared goal of

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Speaker 4: making it easier to build things in America, making it

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Speaker 4: easy year to clean up our forests and deal with

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Speaker 4: the wildfire challenges that we have in the West. And

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Speaker 4: the policy solutions for those things are the same. And frankly,

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Speaker 4: President Trump really was a champion for those in the

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Speaker 4: first administration, and we have an opportunity to make them

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Speaker 4: lasting here in the future.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the exciting part.

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Speaker 2: Now, there has been a lot of groundwork, a lot

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Speaker 2: of spade work done in the last year, not a

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Speaker 2: lot of it visible to the American public, but talk

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Speaker 2: about some of the things you and your team have

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Speaker 2: been working on with both parties in Congress to set

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Speaker 2: the stage for NIPA reform in twenty twenty five.

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Speaker 4: So I've got to give credit to one of my

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Speaker 4: favorite members of Congress.

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Speaker 3: Chairman Bruce Westerman, who runs the House Natural Resources.

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Speaker 4: Committee, he has really been He's an engineer by trade

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Speaker 4: and a forester. He's really been a champion for moving

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Speaker 4: forward this streamlining of the NEPA process, and he's built

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Speaker 4: some really good allies across the aisle. Look at Congressman

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Speaker 4: Scott Peters from California. Obviously, Senator Joe Manchin has been

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Speaker 4: really engaged this Congress in trying to move this ball forward.

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Speaker 3: But there's a new generation of members who.

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Speaker 4: Are coming in who want to be able to move

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Speaker 4: these policies forward and who I think have given us

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Speaker 4: a good starting point for next Congress in terms of

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Speaker 4: really moving substantive reform.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's exciting to see those sort of forces come together.

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Speaker 2: I think NPA started as a good intended thing that

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Speaker 2: we want to protect the environment, make sure their projects

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Speaker 2: comply with common sense regulation, but over time it sort

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Speaker 2: of became a stranglehold. I think in the last half century,

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Speaker 2: we've only had one new nuclear power plant build in America,

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Speaker 2: and that took like ten or twelve years to really

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Speaker 2: get from start to finish. Talk a little bit about

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Speaker 2: how NEPA sorta became weaponized over the last half century.

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Speaker 3: You know, weaponized is the right word.

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Speaker 4: I think we went from having an environmental movement that

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Speaker 4: was very focused on making it more difficult to build

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Speaker 4: things in America. They sort of saw building and development

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Speaker 4: as a threat to the natural world, and all of

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Speaker 4: those legacy environmental laws are really designed around that idea.

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Speaker 4: What we've seen in the last particularly twenty or thirty years,

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Speaker 4: is that the NEPA process has been really weaponized by

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Speaker 4: the environmental leftarticularly through the courts. So they use these

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Speaker 4: NEPA permits as a way to sue the federal government

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Speaker 4: to say, you didn't do what you needed to do

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Speaker 4: in this permit. Let's drag out the process, let's go

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Speaker 4: to the court, let's do a long link, lengthy judicial review,

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Speaker 4: and then by the end of it, the project developer

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Speaker 4: often runs out of money or doesn't have the financing

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Speaker 4: to actually complete the project. Interestingly enough, the Breakthrough Institute,

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Speaker 4: which is a rather left leaning organization, came out with

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Speaker 4: our report earlier this year that said that eighty percent

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Speaker 4: of those lawsuits that are filed are frivolous and they're

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Speaker 4: often targeted.

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Speaker 3: Against clean energy.

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Speaker 4: So the environmental lift is kind of working against the

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Speaker 4: things they say they support, and we really have to

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Speaker 4: change this sort of incentive to go and sue to

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Speaker 4: delay project as opposed to engaging in a productive way.

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Speaker 3: On the front end.

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Speaker 1: That's really important.

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Speaker 2: I think even John Podessa, President Biden's climate change envoy,

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Speaker 2: not exactly a conservative guy, but he also has acknowledged

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Speaker 2: that NIPA just has gotten out of hand and become

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Speaker 2: an impediment even to the things that Joe Biden was

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Speaker 2: trying to build in the last couple of years. How

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Speaker 2: did that mindset set into places? I think behind all

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Speaker 2: of this, there's a false choice that you can't develop

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Speaker 2: and grow and make energy and grow and have in

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Speaker 2: house minerals and be friendly to environment. It's kind of

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Speaker 2: a false choice, isn't it.

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Speaker 3: It's absolutely a false choice.

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Speaker 4: It's something I like to remind my colleagues on the

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Speaker 4: left that emissions actually went down year over year under

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Speaker 4: President Trump because free market policies often drive the cleanest,

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Speaker 4: most efficient energy to be the.

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Speaker 3: Dominating force in the market.

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Speaker 4: We know that if we produce things here in the

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Speaker 4: United States, be it natural gas, renewable power, nuclear power,

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Speaker 4: we do it in a cleaner, more environmentally friendly way,

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Speaker 4: not just for clean water and clean air, but also

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Speaker 4: for global emissions.

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Speaker 3: So if we want to be able to.

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Speaker 4: Drive down global emissions, building things in the United States

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Speaker 4: is really a big part of that solution. And it's

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Speaker 4: something that I think we've seen, you know, you mentioned

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Speaker 4: John Podesta. You've seen in the environmental left take some

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Speaker 4: steps in this direction as they've seen the money they

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Speaker 4: wanted to invest through the IRA get tied up in

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Speaker 4: this regulatory process. I was a part when I worked

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Speaker 4: for Speaker McCarthy. I was a part of the first

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Speaker 4: reforms that have ever been made to the Neapest Statute

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Speaker 4: in the last forty years as part of the Fiscal

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Speaker 4: Responsibility Act.

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Speaker 3: We negotiated that with the White House. It was a

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Speaker 3: really good first step.

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Speaker 4: But I spent the last year in the private sector

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Speaker 4: trying to convince those same INGOs that we need to

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Speaker 4: do a lot more work to keep the courts from

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Speaker 4: slowing down this products.

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Speaker 3: We can't lead on global emissions if we don't build

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Speaker 3: in America.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's such a great point, and I think that

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Speaker 2: false choice has colored a lot of decision making, and

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Speaker 2: so nothing like getting caught in your own quagmire to

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Speaker 2: realize that maybe you need some change. I think that's

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Speaker 2: what happened with John Podesta and the Biden deministration at

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Speaker 2: the end of their time here. You have a fantastic

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Speaker 2: podcast political climate, and recently you touched on a subject

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Speaker 2: that I think is one of the great opportunities. As

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Speaker 2: this environmental movement, in the extreme environmental moment took grip

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Speaker 2: in Washington. For a while, our national security provisions, things

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Speaker 2: like rare elements left our country and we became more

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Speaker 2: dependent on China for the rare elements, Russia for uranium

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Speaker 2: for our nuclear power plans. So behind some of this

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Speaker 2: reform also is a national security question that doesn't often

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Speaker 2: get addressed with these policies. Talk a little bit about

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Speaker 2: the challenges we have with rare earth and with uranium

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Speaker 2: and other mining products that, by the way, are being

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Speaker 2: mined right now here in America.

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Speaker 4: Absolutely, there's a real disconnect between you know, what we've

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Speaker 4: heard from the Biden administration that you know, they want

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Speaker 4: to have tax credits to incentivize clean energy, and they

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Speaker 4: want to build our manufacturing capacity here in the United States,

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Speaker 4: but at the same time they're denying permits for mining

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Speaker 4: the critical minerals that are necessary to build that technology.

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Speaker 3: Here in America.

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Speaker 4: We have incredible natural resources in this country, and we

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Speaker 4: should be utilizing all of them, be they you know,

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Speaker 4: not be it natural gas, be it critical minerals. We

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Speaker 4: should take advantage of all of those resources, and we

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Speaker 4: really seed that territory at China if we don't develop

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Speaker 4: our own critical minerals and if we make it too

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Speaker 4: difficult to build get the permits to build processing facilities

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Speaker 4: here in the United States. So I think if you

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Speaker 4: are serious about meeting our energy demands and the global

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Speaker 4: energy demands, you need to be able to say we

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Speaker 4: need to use all of America's resources, and.

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Speaker 3: We need to be able to use them immediately.

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Speaker 4: We cannot afford to wait ten years for a permit

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Speaker 4: to start a mind otherwise China is just going to

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Speaker 4: continue to dominate those global markets.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I think people here ten years they say, oh,

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Speaker 1: that's hyperbole. It's not. It actually literally takes a decade

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Speaker 1: to get.

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Speaker 3: Something to be quick for a nuclear plant.

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Speaker 1: Actually that would actually be historically fast. You're right, it's crazy.

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Speaker 2: And I think most Americans are just starting to get

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Speaker 2: educated on all. Right, So we've got some important elements

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Speaker 2: of what could create progress in a Trump administration. Neper reform, clearly,

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Speaker 2: the beginning of a new mining industry in America so

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Speaker 2: we can get some of those resources and get off

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Speaker 2: foreign independence. A third one seems to me, and we

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Speaker 2: had Nathan o on recently who's a very big disruptive

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Speaker 2: force in the grid sector. Our grid is so creaky

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Speaker 2: and behind the times. It can't meet the demands of

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Speaker 2: an AI economy that's coming over the horizon. Can you

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Speaker 2: talk a little bit about the elements of grid reform

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Speaker 2: or grid innovation that can get us going there.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's a two part process.

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Speaker 4: One, we need to be able to incorporate more innovative

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Speaker 4: technologies into the grid that we have today so that

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Speaker 4: it can work more efficiently, so that we can move

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Speaker 4: power more efficiently, and that it's frankly safer and more secure.

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Speaker 3: The cybersecurity element here is when we shouldn't forget.

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Speaker 4: The second thing is that it's often described that transmission

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Speaker 4: is something that's only needed for clean energy. That's certainly true,

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Speaker 4: but with the AI demand that we expect to see

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Speaker 4: if coming on the grid in the next five to

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Speaker 4: ten years, we cannot afford to not build transmission out

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Speaker 4: for natural gas, for all of the for nuclear, for

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Speaker 4: all the resources that we need to be able to

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Speaker 4: deliver power to meet those energy demands. We are expecting

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Speaker 4: sky rocketing energy demand in the manufacturing.

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Speaker 3: Sector, sector, in the data center sector, and we're.

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Speaker 4: Not going to be able to meet that or provide

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Speaker 4: that power reliable way without a grid that is robust

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Speaker 4: and has the ability to use utilized new technologies. So

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Speaker 4: I really do think that certainly permitting is a part

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Speaker 4: of that process, but helping to connect both the generators

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Speaker 4: and the power the power demand side from the Amazon

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Speaker 4: data centers of the world is a really critical part

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Speaker 4: to being able to ensure that we win this AI

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Speaker 4: race against China.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you aren't, kidd, It's really important.

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Speaker 2: Nathano who creates these micro grids for some of the

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Speaker 2: big tech companies and now are doing them for public

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Speaker 2: cities and municipalities, he's disrupting that. I think that micro

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Speaker 2: grade to micro grade to micro grade could be really interesting.

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Speaker 2: It was famously said during the Reagan years that people

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Speaker 2: are policy, and I want to ask a little bit.

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Speaker 2: President Trump has some big policies. We know what they are.

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Speaker 1: How does his energy team.

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Speaker 2: Look to you, does he have the right team to

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Speaker 2: make the sort of historic changes that this country's going

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Speaker 2: to need.

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Speaker 4: I think so far his nominees in the environment and

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Speaker 4: energy space are fantastic. Governor Doug Bergham is well respected.

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Speaker 4: He's worked on both the innovative tech side. He's been

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Speaker 4: a manager, He's got that leadership ability, and he understands

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Speaker 4: sort of the ins and outs of how energy is

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Speaker 4: developed in the West, which is such a critical part

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Speaker 4: of solving this problem.

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Speaker 3: Chris Wright is another great choice. I think he's got

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Speaker 3: all of this experience.

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Speaker 4: Building big things in the industry, which is such a

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Speaker 4: big part of what Doe does. And he's got experience

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Speaker 4: not just as an oil and gas executive, but as

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Speaker 4: an investor in some innovative.

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Speaker 3: Nuclear, in geothermal, you.

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Speaker 4: Know, all of these other areas of innovative energy that

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Speaker 4: I think are part of that future mix. Leezelden another

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Speaker 4: great leader who did a fantastic job in galvanizing support

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Speaker 4: in New York and as a member of Congress, I

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Speaker 4: think he's got his work cut after him at the EPA.

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Speaker 4: It's a challenging he didn't see to leave, but I

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Speaker 4: think he's well suited to take on that challenge, and

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Speaker 4: it's really exciting. I look forward to seeing more really

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Speaker 4: qualified and robust nominees from the Trump administration because you know,

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Speaker 4: they know what they need to get the job done here,

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Speaker 4: and we're seeing that play out in the choices they

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Speaker 4: make on personnel.

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Speaker 2: Pretty exciting and it is a pretty amazing team. We've

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Speaker 2: had them all on the show in the last year

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Speaker 2: and they all got big ideas and they also have

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Speaker 2: great experience for moving the ball forward in a town

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Speaker 2: that often drags its feet.

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Speaker 1: Last good question for you. A nuclear had fallen out

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Speaker 1: of favor for a while.

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Speaker 2: It feels like in both parties right now, New Clear

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Speaker 2: is beginning to enjoy a political renaissance. If permitting reform

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Speaker 2: comes in, could we start to see some nuclear plants

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Speaker 2: come online quicker, faster, and smaller.

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Speaker 3: I hope.

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Speaker 5: So.

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Speaker 4: You know, I did some time at the Science Committee

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Speaker 4: in my career, and I've worked on advanced nuclear for

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Speaker 4: over a decade. It is so exciting to see some

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Speaker 4: of these companies that went from the idea phase to

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Speaker 4: actual negotiating power purchase agreements to build here in the

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Speaker 4: United States. I think nuclear financing is something that's still

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Speaker 4: a challenge, and I think the Trump administration is well

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Speaker 4: suited to solve that. But permitting is a big part

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Speaker 4: of it, and I think we'll see a big range

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Speaker 4: not just traditional nuclear but microreactors and modular reactors come

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Speaker 4: online in the next decade.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the innovation going on inside our countries remarkable. We

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Speaker 2: just got to get it on the ground.

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Speaker 1: Emily. It's a great honor to have you on.

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Speaker 2: For folks who want to get your podcasts, reminder how

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Speaker 2: they get downloaded political climate.

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Speaker 4: It's available anywhere you can get podcasts, and you can

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Speaker 4: follow me on exit eh Dominich.

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Speaker 1: That's really great. You are an incredibly important voice and

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Speaker 1: I love the podcast. All Right, Folks who're gonna take

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Speaker 1: a quick commercial break.

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Speaker 2: When we come back more on this very important special

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Speaker 2: report brought to you by American Conservation Coalition, will have that,

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Speaker 2: especially after the message welcome back America to this just

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Speaker 2: the news American Conservation Coalition special Report.

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Speaker 1: We're taking a deep dive.

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Speaker 2: Into possible reforms and policies in President Trump's next term.

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Speaker 2: There's an incredible moment where the innovation of America and

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Speaker 2: the politics of American get aligned and create a whole new

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Speaker 2: legacy for this country technologically, economically, insecurity wise. Our next

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Speaker 2: guest is the former commission of the United States Federal

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Speaker 2: Energy Regulatory Commission, one of the most important bodies in Washington.

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Speaker 2: He's also a great voice on the need to reform

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Speaker 2: our permitting process and build.

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Speaker 1: Here in America. He is Neil Chatterjy Neil. Great to

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Speaker 1: have you on. Thank you for having me. Great honor.

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Speaker 2: Listen you ever saw one of the most important regulatory

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Speaker 2: agencies in America.

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Speaker 1: I don't think Americans understand just.

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Speaker 2: How important regular and permitting reforms going to be to

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Speaker 2: this Trump presidency. It is the catalyst for a lot

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Speaker 2: of innovation, isn't it.

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Speaker 6: It's big and my former agency, the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission,

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Speaker 6: A lot of people are probably what is that? What

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Speaker 6: the FURK? It is probably the single most significant agency

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Speaker 6: that most people have never heard of. But its responsibility

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Speaker 6: is to keep the lights on for Americans, to make

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Speaker 6: sure that when we hit the switch, the lights come on.

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Speaker 6: That one is really cold out, we have heat. One

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Speaker 6: it's really hot out, we have air conditioning. That's a

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Speaker 6: pretty significant responsibility and one that my colleagues and I

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Speaker 6: took quite seriously.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's an amazing agency.

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Speaker 2: I've got to see it in action for many, many

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Speaker 2: years in this town, and it is a lot of

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Speaker 2: people don't know it, but we would be desperate without it.

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Speaker 2: There is a lot of moment in the last segment

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Speaker 2: we started to talk about this. All right, we know

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Speaker 2: all the things we want to bring down energy prices,

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Speaker 2: all those things, but the greatest competition in technology, technological

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Speaker 2: history is upon us, the AI era of the world.

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Speaker 2: China wants to eat our lunch. We need to stay

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Speaker 2: up with them, both from a security and economic standpoint.

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Speaker 2: Tell us what AI does to the entire energy picture

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Speaker 2: under Donald Trump.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, Look, the reality is that AI and winning the

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Speaker 6: AI race is so critical for our future, for our

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Speaker 6: national security, we cannot allow the Chinese Communist Party to

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Speaker 6: dominate AI. We must win the AI race.

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Speaker 1: But in order to do.

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Speaker 6: So, it's going to take a tremendous amount of energy.

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Speaker 6: Of electricity, of power. Power is the underlying key to

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Speaker 6: winning the AI race. And President Trump understands that now

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Speaker 6: here in lies the challenge. He made two commitments and

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Speaker 6: energy to the American people. He promised to win the

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Speaker 6: AI race for national security, purposes, and he promised to

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Speaker 6: bring down the cost of electricity to alleviate some of

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Speaker 6: the burden the inflationary pressure that Americans have been feeling.

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Speaker 6: And in order to achieve that, I think it's gonna

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Speaker 6: totally upend energy policy, quite frankly, on both sides of

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Speaker 6: the aisle. For the last decade decade and a half,

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Speaker 6: we've sort of calcified in this arena where if you're

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Speaker 6: for fossil fuels you have the political right, and if

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Speaker 6: you're for clean energy and climate solutions you're of the

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Speaker 6: political left. I think both parties are gonna have to recalibrate.

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Speaker 6: On the political left, I think there needs to be

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Speaker 6: a recognition that there is no way we can win

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Speaker 6: the AI race against China without fossil fuels. We're gonna

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Speaker 6: need to build new gas plants, We're gonna need to

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Speaker 6: build more natural gas pipeline infrastructure in order to have

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Speaker 6: the sufficient power necessary to win this race against China.

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Speaker 6: On the political right, I think there needs to be

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Speaker 6: a recognition that we cannot possibly win the AI race

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Speaker 6: with fossil fuels alone, that we're gonna need every available electron,

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Speaker 6: and that means supporting policies that enhance solar and store

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Speaker 6: it and geothermal and nuclear, and also things like demand

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Speaker 6: response and energy efficiency and virtual power plants and distributed

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Speaker 6: energy resources. We need it all, truly, and I think

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Speaker 6: once Americans recognize the national security imperative, they'll come around

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Speaker 6: and come together quite frankly, to support the policies that

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Speaker 6: will be necessary to win this AI race.

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Speaker 2: Watch the President in a conversation about a year ago,

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Speaker 2: say my energy policy, I'm going to be Captain Kirk

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Speaker 2: going down to scott He need more power, My friend

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Speaker 2: need more power.

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Speaker 1: He understands it in a very big way, gets it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the nuclear equation has been We've only built one

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Speaker 2: nuclear power plant in over half a century. That took

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Speaker 2: like ten to fifteen years with all the permitting. But

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Speaker 2: if we can get permitting sped up, the nuclear innovation

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Speaker 2: cycle has been extraordinary in America. We can gain a

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Speaker 2: lot of wattage quickly from there, can't we.

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Speaker 6: Look, it's our single greatest form of carbon free base

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Speaker 6: load power, meaning it runs all the time.

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Speaker 1: We need it.

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Speaker 6: But there's huge challenges to building nuclear power. You mentioned

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Speaker 6: permitting and the reforms that are necessary to get these

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Speaker 6: plants built. Get these advanced reactors, small modular reactors. You know,

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Speaker 6: the future of nuclear is very exciting. We got to

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Speaker 6: get these plants built, but at the end of the day,

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Speaker 6: they're still costly. You're still talking about a nuclear entity

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Speaker 6: that needs to be guarded twenty four seven three sixty five,

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Speaker 6: meaning you have to have an army there to protect

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Speaker 6: it at all times. And that's just expensive and I

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Speaker 6: think compared to other sources of power generation, that in

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Speaker 6: lies the biggest challenge to building new nuclear I think

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Speaker 6: the nice thing about the surge in demand that's coming

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Speaker 6: from AI growth and data centers and cloud computing and

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Speaker 6: quantum computing and crypto and bitcoin mining is that it's

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Speaker 6: extended a lifeline to nuclear plants that were otherwise struggling.

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Speaker 6: Nuclear has really struggled to compete, particularly in the competitive

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Speaker 6: power markets the last decade decade and a half. This

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Speaker 6: coming growth in demand is really going to be a

446
00:21:16,640 --> 00:21:21,280
Speaker 6: boost to nuclear power plants that have needed this kind

447
00:21:21,320 --> 00:21:24,840
Speaker 6: of demand because now everybody wants all the tech players

448
00:21:24,880 --> 00:21:27,919
Speaker 6: in AI they want that carbon free nuclear power.

449
00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:30,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, they sure do, and that's probably their easiest choice,

450
00:21:30,640 --> 00:21:33,680
Speaker 2: or one of the easiest choices for big load there

451
00:21:33,800 --> 00:21:36,960
Speaker 2: is one other potential quagmire on that is our grid

452
00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:39,880
Speaker 2: is a little creaky. There's some real amazing innovation going

453
00:21:39,920 --> 00:21:42,879
Speaker 2: on with micro grids and linking them together. Companies like

454
00:21:42,920 --> 00:21:45,600
Speaker 2: Volta Grid tell us a little bit about fixing the

455
00:21:45,640 --> 00:21:47,639
Speaker 2: grid and what that could possibly do to this equation.

456
00:21:48,560 --> 00:21:51,880
Speaker 6: Yeah, again, it comes back to permitting reform. We need

457
00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:57,920
Speaker 6: to build more transmission. We need to use grid enhancing technologies.

458
00:21:57,960 --> 00:22:01,280
Speaker 6: There's a lot of exciting stuff out there. There's technologies

459
00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:05,520
Speaker 6: like dynamic line ratings and ambient adjusted ratings. We can

460
00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:11,040
Speaker 6: use AI, we can use satellite imagery and AI for

461
00:22:11,280 --> 00:22:15,760
Speaker 6: things like vegetation management and wildfire risk mitigation. There's a

462
00:22:15,800 --> 00:22:19,320
Speaker 6: lot of exciting things that technology can give us to

463
00:22:19,480 --> 00:22:23,879
Speaker 6: better enable the grid. But it starts with transmission. We

464
00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:27,119
Speaker 6: just need to build more transmission in this country to

465
00:22:27,240 --> 00:22:30,639
Speaker 6: get more power to where the demand for that power

466
00:22:30,920 --> 00:22:34,919
Speaker 6: is and whether it's a natural gas pipeline to deliver

467
00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:38,680
Speaker 6: gas or a transmission line to deliver clean energy. It's

468
00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:41,720
Speaker 6: just way too hard to build things in this country,

469
00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:45,080
Speaker 6: which is why I really want to see legislative permitting

470
00:22:45,119 --> 00:22:49,000
Speaker 6: reform get done in Congress so that we can build

471
00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:52,679
Speaker 6: the grid of the future, a twenty first century grid

472
00:22:52,760 --> 00:22:55,080
Speaker 6: that we can be proud of. Look, you said that

473
00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:57,840
Speaker 6: the grid is creaky. It is creaky. I still think

474
00:22:57,880 --> 00:23:02,720
Speaker 6: it's man's greatest invention to date. It is actually amazing.

475
00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:04,679
Speaker 6: And when I was at Firk and I traveled around

476
00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:07,360
Speaker 6: the world and I met with our allies, you know,

477
00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:11,560
Speaker 6: we here can be very critical of our own energy infrastructure.

478
00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:14,680
Speaker 6: Our grid is the envy of the world. Everybody else

479
00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:17,960
Speaker 6: wants to learn from us. How we do it so well.

480
00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:20,280
Speaker 6: I think we do it with great I think we

481
00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:23,440
Speaker 6: can do it even better. But it will take permiting

482
00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:26,680
Speaker 6: reform to put us in a place to do it better.

483
00:23:27,119 --> 00:23:28,880
Speaker 2: I have a funny feeling we'll even be a greater

484
00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:30,720
Speaker 2: envy to the world in four years after the Trump

485
00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:32,600
Speaker 2: administration gets done with Jamil Neil.

486
00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:34,399
Speaker 1: What a great opportunity to Harvey On. Thank you for

487
00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:36,800
Speaker 1: your great service to the country. Folks. More right after

488
00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:37,879
Speaker 1: this commercial breaking.

489
00:23:47,119 --> 00:23:49,560
Speaker 2: All right, America, welcome back to this special edition of

490
00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:52,240
Speaker 2: Justin Who's no Noise. We're partnering with the American Conservation

491
00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:55,920
Speaker 2: Coalition to highlight important energy policies as well as environmental

492
00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:59,360
Speaker 2: policies that the new Trump administration can administer and change

493
00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:01,520
Speaker 2: the future of this you're joining us now is the

494
00:24:01,560 --> 00:24:04,520
Speaker 2: CEO and chairman of the Hudson Sustainable Group, which invests

495
00:24:04,520 --> 00:24:06,959
Speaker 2: in sustainable in resource sufficient energy.

496
00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:10,439
Speaker 1: Neil Arbak Neil, great to have you on. Thank you.

497
00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:11,080
Speaker 1: It's a pleasure.

498
00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:13,520
Speaker 2: You have been in this industry a long time, and

499
00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:17,480
Speaker 2: I think we're at this extraordinary moment where our technology

500
00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:20,359
Speaker 2: and our capability, our innovation is speeding ahead, but our

501
00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:24,199
Speaker 2: political processes, particularly the regulatory structure, are lagging behind, and

502
00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:27,000
Speaker 2: so some of our best ideas and technologies can't get

503
00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:28,600
Speaker 2: into the marketplace quick enough.

504
00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:31,720
Speaker 7: How do we fix that in the next administration. Well,

505
00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:33,480
Speaker 7: we have to fix it quickly. I'll give you a

506
00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:37,639
Speaker 7: fun fact. For twenty years, the energy load, the amount

507
00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:41,680
Speaker 7: of electricity demand has been stagnant in the United States.

508
00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:44,479
Speaker 7: Over the last year or so, it's actually spiked and

509
00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:47,359
Speaker 7: is predicted to go up at least fifty percent, perhaps

510
00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:50,479
Speaker 7: more over the next five to ten years. And there

511
00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:52,920
Speaker 7: are some predictions that will actually double. And that's a

512
00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:55,480
Speaker 7: little bit scary because that is what that is the

513
00:24:55,520 --> 00:24:58,439
Speaker 7: lifelood of the US economy. And so we have to

514
00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:01,680
Speaker 7: both build more generation and we have to build more

515
00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:05,760
Speaker 7: transmission to get that energy to wear to the American consumer,

516
00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:10,200
Speaker 7: both personal, residential, commercial, industrial, and then the big big

517
00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:12,879
Speaker 7: power users, the utilities. So that has to happen, and

518
00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:16,159
Speaker 7: it's going to need permitting reform throughout the economy to

519
00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:20,560
Speaker 7: be able to permit transmission and generation, and that would

520
00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:24,680
Speaker 7: includes small module reactors, which has a relatively slow permitting

521
00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:27,359
Speaker 7: time as well, certainly faster than the big ones, but

522
00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:28,399
Speaker 7: a little bit too slow.

523
00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:31,159
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a four letter word that comes up a

524
00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:33,240
Speaker 2: lot in Washington these days. I haven't heard it for years,

525
00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:36,239
Speaker 2: but it's important. NEPA, the National Environmental Policy Act, tell

526
00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:38,639
Speaker 2: us a little bit why that, which started as a

527
00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:40,800
Speaker 2: good intention thing in the seventies has sort of become

528
00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:42,120
Speaker 2: a millstone around progress.

529
00:25:43,119 --> 00:25:43,520
Speaker 1: That's right.

530
00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:45,840
Speaker 7: Well, that's because I think that there are interest groups

531
00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:50,960
Speaker 7: here that are frankly anti economic progress, and they believe

532
00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:53,480
Speaker 7: that there's a core belief on the left and that's

533
00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:57,800
Speaker 7: only extreme left, that any kind of progress, economic progress

534
00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:01,280
Speaker 7: bastie threatens the environment. And so you have this knee

535
00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:04,080
Speaker 7: jerk reaction where there are interest groups that are coming

536
00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:07,560
Speaker 7: to slow down projects. There are cases where it took

537
00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:11,080
Speaker 7: years and years to figure out how to safeguard a

538
00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:14,920
Speaker 7: toad or a community of toads in the you know,

539
00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:17,879
Speaker 7: in the California desert, and that costs hundreds of millions

540
00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:21,120
Speaker 7: of dollars. There's certainly the cost benefit analysis that goes

541
00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:23,879
Speaker 7: into neeper primitting today is a little bit off whack,

542
00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:27,720
Speaker 7: and hopefully Doge or other parts of the Administration of

543
00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:29,679
Speaker 7: Congress is going to be able to address that and

544
00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:31,400
Speaker 7: get faster action on permitting.

545
00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:34,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's been a false choice I think in the

546
00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:37,600
Speaker 2: political marketplace, not in the economic marketplace, that you.

547
00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:39,919
Speaker 1: Can either have more energy or less government.

548
00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:42,080
Speaker 2: You can't have both. And obviously that's not really true

549
00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:45,600
Speaker 2: at all. A low carbon economy is achievable with all

550
00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:47,280
Speaker 2: of the above approach, and I know you just wrote

551
00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:49,760
Speaker 2: a column on this that's really really important about how

552
00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:51,679
Speaker 2: we get there and how we dispel maybe some of

553
00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:52,359
Speaker 2: the falsehoods.

554
00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:55,680
Speaker 7: Absolutely, the first thing we have to do is to

555
00:26:55,760 --> 00:27:00,320
Speaker 7: actually stop conflating climate climatism, the belief in in the

556
00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:04,120
Speaker 7: science climate change and clean energy. I certainly do believe

557
00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:08,040
Speaker 7: that the climate change is a serious concern. However, I

558
00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:10,800
Speaker 7: don't label it a crisis. And what happens to those

559
00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:12,960
Speaker 7: who labeled a crisis, you get the equal and opposite

560
00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:15,800
Speaker 7: reaction to label it a hoax. The truth is somewhere

561
00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:18,399
Speaker 7: in the middle. It is a problem, it's a serious problem,

562
00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:20,720
Speaker 7: but it also has to be balanced against the needs

563
00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:24,479
Speaker 7: of humanity and of the United States in particular, to

564
00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:27,960
Speaker 7: have a flourishing economy which also benefits human flourishing and

565
00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:30,600
Speaker 7: well being. And so by adopting an all of the

566
00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:34,920
Speaker 7: above approach, and by getting the Nimbi attitude out of

567
00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:36,760
Speaker 7: the interest troups in the United States and the US

568
00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:39,800
Speaker 7: as a whole, we can build everything here. We have

569
00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:43,520
Speaker 7: all the resources, the mineral resources, we can bring manufacturing

570
00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:46,760
Speaker 7: back here, and we can become an energy superpower. Believe

571
00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:50,600
Speaker 7: it or not, it's not fossil fuels alone. Today, clearly

572
00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:52,720
Speaker 7: fossil fuels is still the big boy in the York.

573
00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:55,919
Speaker 7: But just to give you another fun fact, forty percent

574
00:27:56,240 --> 00:27:59,200
Speaker 7: of the global economy is now of the electricity generation

575
00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:03,960
Speaker 7: is by renewables, and so that is really important, and

576
00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:06,560
Speaker 7: we're getting pretty close to that in the United States.

577
00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:10,600
Speaker 7: It's happening with or without government support. It happens faster

578
00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:14,119
Speaker 7: with government support. And when you have this advent of

579
00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:17,400
Speaker 7: massive demand, a lot of it coming from data centers

580
00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:21,720
Speaker 7: and other aspects of electrification, which by the way, includes manufacturing.

581
00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:26,960
Speaker 7: If Donald Trump wants to have the US being manufacturing superpower,

582
00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:29,680
Speaker 7: we need a lot more electricity and the only way

583
00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:31,399
Speaker 7: that happens is with all of the above.

584
00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:33,119
Speaker 1: Yeah, no doubt about it.

585
00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:35,000
Speaker 2: And he says that he's an all above guy now,

586
00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:37,199
Speaker 2: and clearly he's put a team around him.

587
00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:37,960
Speaker 1: I think that gets it.

588
00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:41,200
Speaker 2: When you have an energy team led by an entrepreneur

589
00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:43,960
Speaker 2: that was in really the digital era, there's a sense

590
00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:46,840
Speaker 2: of that entrepreneurism that you bring to government policy that

591
00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:49,000
Speaker 2: sometimes missing when you get, you know, sort of policy

592
00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:52,320
Speaker 2: heads that take those jobs. How important is the team

593
00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:55,000
Speaker 2: around the president? What's your early evaluation of how they'll

594
00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:55,520
Speaker 2: approach this?

595
00:28:57,160 --> 00:29:01,400
Speaker 7: Very positively, very constructive. On the administrative front, there's clearly

596
00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:04,680
Speaker 7: going to be a recalibration. We're going to stop putting

597
00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:08,320
Speaker 7: the thumb against the fossil fuels, but we're not going

598
00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:12,200
Speaker 7: to actually stop clean energy. Certainly, there's going to be

599
00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:15,720
Speaker 7: a question about what we do with the Inflation Reduction Act,

600
00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:19,480
Speaker 7: but that goes into Congress, and Congress and the Republican

601
00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:23,160
Speaker 7: majorities rest on very very thin majorities, particularly for the

602
00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:26,560
Speaker 7: first ninety days until the new elections in the three

603
00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:30,640
Speaker 7: Republican districts take place, and so even beyond that, I

604
00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:34,040
Speaker 7: think that's a tougher slog. But in terms of attacking

605
00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:37,000
Speaker 7: what the administration can do, which is a lot, we

606
00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:40,720
Speaker 7: have an action oriented team that I believe is going

607
00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:42,760
Speaker 7: to be very good for the US economy and very

608
00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:45,280
Speaker 7: good for all of the above, both fossil fuels and

609
00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:46,400
Speaker 7: also for low carbon.

610
00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:51,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, you had some interesting thoughts on selling solar energy.

611
00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:54,400
Speaker 2: Is it a climate panacea or an economic juggernaut. I'd

612
00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:56,840
Speaker 2: love you to referee that, because again that's one of

613
00:29:56,880 --> 00:29:59,120
Speaker 2: those choices, but some are in the middle.

614
00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:00,680
Speaker 1: Is a really interesting or isn't.

615
00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:04,560
Speaker 7: There absolutely Well, look, you know in particular now, So

616
00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:08,520
Speaker 7: the answer is it helps on climate, but it's not

617
00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:12,440
Speaker 7: an absolute solution here. This is going to take. The

618
00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:16,600
Speaker 7: climate issue is going to take concerted effort, and frankly,

619
00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:20,600
Speaker 7: a policy that allows China to triple its emissions over

620
00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:23,360
Speaker 7: the last twenty years while the US drops its emissions

621
00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:26,440
Speaker 7: by twenty to twenty five percent. Solar is going to

622
00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:29,800
Speaker 7: continue to be dripping that faucet and so eventually the

623
00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:32,520
Speaker 7: bucket will fill. But you need to do other things,

624
00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:35,440
Speaker 7: and you need to decarbonize heavy industry. And so one

625
00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:38,400
Speaker 7: of the nice things about the IRA that Folcus in

626
00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:40,800
Speaker 7: the fossil fuel industry support is that there are a

627
00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:46,480
Speaker 7: lot of places in there that support decarbonization incentives such

628
00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:49,800
Speaker 7: as decarbonizing CO two emissions and is removing CO two

629
00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:54,120
Speaker 7: emissions and also producing hydrogen. So those two are very good.

630
00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:56,360
Speaker 7: It's actually in all of the above. There are a

631
00:30:56,400 --> 00:30:59,239
Speaker 7: lot of fossil fuel companies that are very interested in

632
00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:02,040
Speaker 7: that technology and that strongly helps. But all of the

633
00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:05,840
Speaker 7: above is the way to go until the new energies,

634
00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:09,000
Speaker 7: the low carbon energies, which include the SMRs the smaller

635
00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:12,760
Speaker 7: module nuclear reactors come online. This is a twenty to

636
00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:15,840
Speaker 7: thirty year problem. It's not going to be solved overnight.

637
00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:18,960
Speaker 7: It is a serious issue to tackle. It's not a crisis,

638
00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:21,280
Speaker 7: but we do need to take action and be cognizant

639
00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:24,880
Speaker 7: of what CO two emissions do to planetary health.

640
00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:27,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, and they can both be achieved at the same time.

641
00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:30,200
Speaker 2: I think that's what's exciting about this next generation is

642
00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:32,280
Speaker 2: getting past the alternative that is one or the other,

643
00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:35,040
Speaker 2: and I think that's one of the great moments as

644
00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:38,560
Speaker 2: you look out over the next year, coming up with

645
00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:42,240
Speaker 2: money and rebalancing the budget to put the right priorities

646
00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:43,920
Speaker 2: on all of the above will be a big part

647
00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:47,520
Speaker 2: of this. But there's also an element of economic and

648
00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:53,440
Speaker 2: national security ties to this policy. Because China's moving ahead

649
00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:56,160
Speaker 2: quickly with AI. We can't fall behind in the AI race.

650
00:31:56,200 --> 00:31:59,640
Speaker 2: And AI is perhaps the most power hungry technology America's

651
00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:00,120
Speaker 2: ever had.

652
00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:04,760
Speaker 7: Right absolutely, it is absolutely power hungry. And the users

653
00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:07,680
Speaker 7: of AI, the builders of the and the renters, if

654
00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:10,120
Speaker 7: you will, of the servers in the AI data centers

655
00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:13,440
Speaker 7: all want clean energy and so we have to solve

656
00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:16,760
Speaker 7: that because the market is actually driving demand. And again

657
00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:18,760
Speaker 7: all of the above is gonna be important. And here's

658
00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:21,080
Speaker 7: what if I could put in a plug for solar

659
00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:26,160
Speaker 7: plus batteries and also small natural gas power plants that

660
00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:28,920
Speaker 7: can go behind the meter. Transmission is going to take

661
00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:32,000
Speaker 7: time to fix right now in different parts of the country,

662
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:34,520
Speaker 7: there's up to a seven year queue to get new

663
00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:38,400
Speaker 7: transmission built and that is a problem. So any opportunity

664
00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:41,680
Speaker 7: that we have that will allow us to build behind

665
00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:45,280
Speaker 7: the meter so that something that solar and battery storage

666
00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:48,880
Speaker 7: can solve in tandem. Because we need to build multiple

667
00:32:48,920 --> 00:32:51,360
Speaker 7: sources to be able to operate twenty four to seven.

668
00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:55,400
Speaker 7: That's the way to go because now you can actually

669
00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:59,920
Speaker 7: bypass the transmission lines and sell the energy directly on site.

670
00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:02,600
Speaker 7: The other way to go is actually put data centers

671
00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:05,360
Speaker 7: next to wind farms. There's a lot of extra space

672
00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:08,440
Speaker 7: on wind farms, just sell that power directly. So there

673
00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:11,640
Speaker 7: are many creative solutions to this problem that does not

674
00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:15,120
Speaker 7: require transmission, but we've got a fixed transmission and we

675
00:33:15,160 --> 00:33:17,320
Speaker 7: need to be We need to build more of all

676
00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:20,320
Speaker 7: of the above, and certainly a healthy component of low

677
00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:23,280
Speaker 7: carbon energy because that's what the data center need of

678
00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:29,520
Speaker 7: users and the owners want to power their AI centers.

679
00:33:29,560 --> 00:33:32,040
Speaker 7: So that problem is going to take time to solve.

680
00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:33,880
Speaker 7: Right now, we're going to have a little bit of

681
00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:35,960
Speaker 7: a crunch, but I believe that over the next several

682
00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:38,840
Speaker 7: years you're going to see them, particularly under the Trump administration,

683
00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:42,200
Speaker 7: the gates flown wide open to be able to permit

684
00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:46,520
Speaker 7: and build as much of data centers and also generation

685
00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:49,040
Speaker 7: to feed those data centers, and this could be a

686
00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:50,000
Speaker 7: very exciting time for.

687
00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:51,160
Speaker 1: The US economy.

688
00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:53,520
Speaker 2: Some of those alliances are ready forming, and natural gas

689
00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:57,400
Speaker 2: and solar companies working together microgrids working together with data centers.

690
00:33:57,400 --> 00:33:59,680
Speaker 2: It's a very interesting time. And yeah, I think you

691
00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:01,920
Speaker 2: gave a a great dip into the future. Very interesting

692
00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:03,840
Speaker 2: to see where we are. Thank you so much for

693
00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:05,240
Speaker 2: joining us, and thank you for all the good work

694
00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:08,120
Speaker 2: you're doing at the Hudson Sustainable Thank you so much.

695
00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:10,200
Speaker 2: All Right, folks, don't go anywhere, because after the break,

696
00:34:10,200 --> 00:34:12,360
Speaker 2: we're going to have the President of the American Conservation

697
00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:15,440
Speaker 2: Coalition himself here, Chris Barnard, on the program.

698
00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:28,640
Speaker 1: Right after these messages. Welcome back, everybody.

699
00:34:28,680 --> 00:34:32,480
Speaker 2: We've been having an incredible conversation about the incredible opportunity

700
00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:35,080
Speaker 2: that awaits the Trump two point zero administration when it comes.

701
00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:36,560
Speaker 1: To energy in conservation.

702
00:34:36,640 --> 00:34:40,879
Speaker 2: A historic moment where technology, policy and economics lineup, maybe

703
00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:43,439
Speaker 2: for the first time in two decades. It's been made

704
00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:46,080
Speaker 2: possible by our good friends tonight, our partners for the show,

705
00:34:46,120 --> 00:34:49,160
Speaker 2: the American Conservation Coalition, And who better to talk about

706
00:34:49,160 --> 00:34:51,960
Speaker 2: that opportunity as we close out the conversation than our

707
00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:54,920
Speaker 2: good friend Chris Barnard, who is the president of that organization.

708
00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:56,400
Speaker 1: Chris, great to have you back on the show.

709
00:34:57,840 --> 00:34:58,799
Speaker 5: Great to be here, John.

710
00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:01,879
Speaker 2: I love what ACC does, but maybe people tonight you're

711
00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:04,239
Speaker 2: hearing about it for the first time. Let's just start off,

712
00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:06,280
Speaker 2: what does the ACC do, what's its mission?

713
00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:07,960
Speaker 1: And how has it grown so quickly?

714
00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:13,359
Speaker 5: Yeah, well, we believe at ACC that conservation is conservative.

715
00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:15,719
Speaker 5: We believe that this is an issue that has been

716
00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:18,360
Speaker 5: owned by the left for far too long, and that

717
00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:21,239
Speaker 5: actually conservtives not only care about this, but we have

718
00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:25,200
Speaker 5: the right solutions to both protect our environment, unleash our

719
00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:28,560
Speaker 5: economic prosperity, and compete with countries like China. And that's

720
00:35:28,560 --> 00:35:32,839
Speaker 5: by building just the coolest, most amazing innovative technologies right

721
00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:35,719
Speaker 5: here in America. We just ended twenty twenty four with

722
00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:38,799
Speaker 5: sixty thousand young members across the country and we're just

723
00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:39,480
Speaker 5: getting started.

724
00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:42,280
Speaker 1: That's amazing. Sixty thousand already, that's amazing.

725
00:35:42,840 --> 00:35:45,960
Speaker 2: This is a really important issue to win the narrative

726
00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:50,080
Speaker 2: and the policy debates on because for too much of

727
00:35:50,120 --> 00:35:52,280
Speaker 2: the last two decades there's been one sort of extreme

728
00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:55,479
Speaker 2: agenda that relied on all of us believing the world

729
00:35:55,560 --> 00:35:57,440
Speaker 2: was about to come down end and there's only one solution.

730
00:35:57,480 --> 00:35:59,800
Speaker 2: You got to give up energy to save the environment.

731
00:35:59,840 --> 00:36:02,239
Speaker 2: And in fact, your group has shown and I think

732
00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:05,880
Speaker 2: educated so many people, including policy makers, you can expand

733
00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:09,160
Speaker 2: energy and bring down carbon emissions. It feels like we

734
00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:11,959
Speaker 2: have a president and administration that's aligned with that now too.

735
00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:14,080
Speaker 1: Yeah.

736
00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:16,520
Speaker 5: I think so. When we've heard a lot about drill,

737
00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:20,760
Speaker 5: baby drill, I also think we should build baby, build, innovate, baby, innovate,

738
00:36:21,120 --> 00:36:22,640
Speaker 5: and that's what it's going to take. We want to

739
00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:25,600
Speaker 5: be able to compete with China in the twenty first century,

740
00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:28,960
Speaker 5: and that means competing on all fronts. It's oil and gas,

741
00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:32,160
Speaker 5: it's also wind and solar and battery storage technologies and

742
00:36:32,239 --> 00:36:35,480
Speaker 5: nuclear and geothermal. We need to unleash that innovation right

743
00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:37,440
Speaker 5: here in America. Who we need to bring those supply

744
00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:41,799
Speaker 5: chains back home. I think this administration coming up in

745
00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:44,680
Speaker 5: January understands that. I think that Chris Wright, who'll be

746
00:36:44,719 --> 00:36:47,960
Speaker 5: Secretary Energy, and Doug Bergham, he'll be a Secretary in

747
00:36:47,960 --> 00:36:52,080
Speaker 5: Interior Secretary, they understand that, and we're excited to work

748
00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:53,000
Speaker 5: with them hand in hand.

749
00:36:53,360 --> 00:36:53,600
Speaker 1: Yeah.

750
00:36:53,719 --> 00:36:55,680
Speaker 2: It really is an all star team of people who

751
00:36:55,760 --> 00:36:59,319
Speaker 2: they have incredible industry bona fides, but they also have

752
00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:00,480
Speaker 2: records of innovation.

753
00:37:00,560 --> 00:37:02,520
Speaker 1: And I think there's an extraordinary moment.

754
00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:03,920
Speaker 2: I think I said it early in the show with

755
00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:08,440
Speaker 2: one of our guests, The innovation and technology cycle of

756
00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:11,720
Speaker 2: America is speeding ahead and the political cycle is falling behind,

757
00:37:11,719 --> 00:37:13,680
Speaker 2: and so we have these technologies that can't get into

758
00:37:13,680 --> 00:37:16,400
Speaker 2: the marketplace. It seems like this team is going to

759
00:37:16,520 --> 00:37:19,640
Speaker 2: narrow that gap with things like NEPA reform and regulatory

760
00:37:19,640 --> 00:37:22,080
Speaker 2: reform and speed things to the marketplace.

761
00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:23,680
Speaker 1: That could be a game changer. Right.

762
00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:28,960
Speaker 5: Yeah, No one knows that the number one obstacle to

763
00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:32,880
Speaker 5: building out more energy, and especially clean energy in America

764
00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:36,680
Speaker 5: is actually government regulation. The permitting process you talked about.

765
00:37:36,719 --> 00:37:40,640
Speaker 5: NEPA holds back projects on average by nearly five years.

766
00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:43,800
Speaker 5: Do you know who's not waiting? The Chinese Communist Party.

767
00:37:44,239 --> 00:37:46,799
Speaker 5: They're approving new coal mines every day. They're building over

768
00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:49,920
Speaker 5: one hundred new nuclear plants right now. They've competed with

769
00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:52,920
Speaker 5: us and beat us on solar supply chains and electric

770
00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:56,400
Speaker 5: vehicle supply chains, and we are just falling behind because

771
00:37:56,440 --> 00:37:59,840
Speaker 5: we've had bad policies. This next administration needs to focus

772
00:37:59,880 --> 00:38:02,640
Speaker 5: on just letting America build on coming up with the

773
00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:06,120
Speaker 5: coolest innovations and technologies possible. That's how we win the

774
00:38:06,120 --> 00:38:08,800
Speaker 5: twenty first century clean energy arms race, not by holding

775
00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:11,600
Speaker 5: ourselves back, but by unleashing American ingenuity.

776
00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:15,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, we got this other technology that is electric hungry AI,

777
00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:19,120
Speaker 2: artificial intelligence. We can't afford to lose out to China

778
00:38:19,120 --> 00:38:22,239
Speaker 2: because that will drive military national security strategy as well

779
00:38:22,280 --> 00:38:23,640
Speaker 2: as the next age of innovation.

780
00:38:24,360 --> 00:38:26,440
Speaker 1: Talk about the extraordinary.

781
00:38:25,760 --> 00:38:27,439
Speaker 2: Demand that AI is going to put on the grid

782
00:38:27,440 --> 00:38:29,759
Speaker 2: and how much more energy we got to create to

783
00:38:29,840 --> 00:38:30,239
Speaker 2: keep up.

784
00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:34,759
Speaker 5: Yeah, well, you have supercomputers right now that are being

785
00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:37,160
Speaker 5: built that will each take one gig a lot of energy.

786
00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:41,040
Speaker 5: That's two nuclear plants right there. It's just astounding to

787
00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:43,160
Speaker 5: think about. And the reality is that we can't be

788
00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:46,000
Speaker 5: picking what energy sources we want versus others and picking

789
00:38:46,080 --> 00:38:48,840
Speaker 5: winners and losers. We just need more clean energy and

790
00:38:49,040 --> 00:38:52,560
Speaker 5: energy broadly speaking, that's in all of the above approach.

791
00:38:52,760 --> 00:38:54,120
Speaker 5: And you look at a lot of the investments that

792
00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:56,960
Speaker 5: are happening across America, most of those are actually in

793
00:38:57,160 --> 00:39:03,000
Speaker 5: conservative red districts. We see like electric vehicle battery manufacturing,

794
00:39:03,120 --> 00:39:06,520
Speaker 5: we see solar facilities, we see nuclear plants. All of

795
00:39:06,560 --> 00:39:09,440
Speaker 5: these things are being built right here in America, and

796
00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:12,360
Speaker 5: we need to continue unleashing that because at the end

797
00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:14,160
Speaker 5: of the day, if we want to compete with China

798
00:39:14,200 --> 00:39:16,719
Speaker 5: when it comes to national security and energy security. We

799
00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:18,600
Speaker 5: need to also beat them at this AI race. It's

800
00:39:18,600 --> 00:39:20,760
Speaker 5: going to take a heck of a lot more energy.

801
00:39:21,040 --> 00:39:22,840
Speaker 5: We should be producing that right here in America.

802
00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:26,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, one of the things that we've allowed to fall

803
00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:29,200
Speaker 2: behind is our ability to have the key resources that

804
00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:35,960
Speaker 2: drive technology minerals, precious minerals, particularly rare rare earth minerals,

805
00:39:36,120 --> 00:39:38,359
Speaker 2: but also things like uranium, which will drive the next

806
00:39:38,360 --> 00:39:43,279
Speaker 2: generation of nuclear power here. That seems like this administration

807
00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:48,040
Speaker 2: is intent on fixing that supply chain problem as well.

808
00:39:48,160 --> 00:39:51,360
Speaker 5: Look, what we've had in DC is an approach that

809
00:39:51,440 --> 00:39:56,280
Speaker 5: over decades has locked up American resources. We will never

810
00:39:56,360 --> 00:39:59,040
Speaker 5: ever be able to compete with countries like Russia or

811
00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:03,520
Speaker 5: China or other adversaries if we don't actually allow ourselves

812
00:40:03,520 --> 00:40:06,040
Speaker 5: to mind the critical minerals that we have here at home,

813
00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:10,000
Speaker 5: to unearth the resources that we've been blessed with. China

814
00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:13,480
Speaker 5: right now controls eighty plus percent of these critical minerals

815
00:40:13,520 --> 00:40:17,040
Speaker 5: that are used for military equipment, for health care facilities,

816
00:40:17,320 --> 00:40:20,319
Speaker 5: and for clean energy production. But we have those very

817
00:40:20,320 --> 00:40:22,759
Speaker 5: same minerals here in America. We just don't allow allow

818
00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:26,080
Speaker 5: ourselves to mind them. On average, it takes twenty nine

819
00:40:26,200 --> 00:40:28,719
Speaker 5: years to open a new mind in America. It's just

820
00:40:28,760 --> 00:40:32,400
Speaker 5: completely mind bogglingly stupid. And we need to just start

821
00:40:33,120 --> 00:40:35,640
Speaker 5: building and mining and doing all those things here in

822
00:40:35,680 --> 00:40:38,319
Speaker 5: America because our future really really does depend on it.

823
00:40:38,520 --> 00:40:42,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, and we mine and drill and develop more cleanly

824
00:40:42,200 --> 00:40:44,080
Speaker 2: than any country in the world already, we don't get

825
00:40:44,120 --> 00:40:46,279
Speaker 2: credit for that. We always seem to be shamed for

826
00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:48,320
Speaker 2: our incredible environmental record.

827
00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:51,400
Speaker 1: I want to talk a little bit about.

828
00:40:51,719 --> 00:40:55,239
Speaker 2: Political stigma, because I think for a long time, being

829
00:40:55,280 --> 00:40:58,239
Speaker 2: in favor of the environment or conservation was a bad

830
00:40:58,280 --> 00:41:00,560
Speaker 2: thing because you were loped in with the Green New

831
00:41:00,600 --> 00:41:03,520
Speaker 2: Deal and the climate extremists. But the history of the

832
00:41:03,600 --> 00:41:06,480
Speaker 2: Republican Party in conservative movement is some of the greatest

833
00:41:06,480 --> 00:41:09,960
Speaker 2: conservations in this were Republican Imald Reagan and Teddy Roosevelt

834
00:41:09,960 --> 00:41:14,160
Speaker 2: and others. How do Republicans get out of being backed

835
00:41:14,160 --> 00:41:16,480
Speaker 2: into a corner and say we can own the environment

836
00:41:16,520 --> 00:41:17,400
Speaker 2: without being extreme.

837
00:41:19,680 --> 00:41:21,640
Speaker 5: Well, the first thing that needs to happen is to

838
00:41:21,680 --> 00:41:25,280
Speaker 5: be proud of our past. Who founded the first national

839
00:41:25,280 --> 00:41:29,239
Speaker 5: park in America, a Republican president who was known as

840
00:41:29,239 --> 00:41:33,200
Speaker 5: the conservation President, A Republican president who founded the Environmental

841
00:41:33,280 --> 00:41:37,080
Speaker 5: Protection Agency, a Republican president. It's such a bizarre thing

842
00:41:37,160 --> 00:41:39,480
Speaker 5: to me that in the last few decades this issue

843
00:41:39,520 --> 00:41:41,840
Speaker 5: has been dominated by people from al Gore through AOC

844
00:41:42,320 --> 00:41:46,520
Speaker 5: when we don't know that conservation is an inherently conservative principle,

845
00:41:46,520 --> 00:41:48,800
Speaker 5: and so we need to stop allowing the other side

846
00:41:48,960 --> 00:41:51,399
Speaker 5: to monopolize and dominate this issue. We need to stand

847
00:41:51,480 --> 00:41:53,560
Speaker 5: up and say, actually, not only do we care, but

848
00:41:53,680 --> 00:41:57,480
Speaker 5: we have better solutions. Our solutions will actually unleash innovation,

849
00:41:57,640 --> 00:42:01,320
Speaker 5: they will compete with countries like China, they will actually

850
00:42:01,360 --> 00:42:04,399
Speaker 5: unleash economic prosperity, and they will protect the environment at

851
00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:06,640
Speaker 5: the same time. Why do we have to choose between

852
00:42:06,680 --> 00:42:09,200
Speaker 5: all of those things? That's been the status quo, and

853
00:42:09,280 --> 00:42:10,440
Speaker 5: we're working hard to change that.

854
00:42:10,680 --> 00:42:12,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's been a false choice.

855
00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:14,400
Speaker 2: By the way, there was only one president that actually

856
00:42:14,480 --> 00:42:17,960
Speaker 2: made energy America fully energy independent and brought down carbon

857
00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:20,040
Speaker 2: emissions at the same time, Donald Trump. He didn't get

858
00:42:20,040 --> 00:42:21,640
Speaker 2: any credit for that, but we got to keep reminding

859
00:42:21,680 --> 00:42:23,640
Speaker 2: people of it. Chris, stick around. We're going to take

860
00:42:23,640 --> 00:42:25,520
Speaker 2: a quick commercial break. When we come back, I want

861
00:42:25,520 --> 00:42:27,279
Speaker 2: to dive in a little bit more about what lies

862
00:42:27,280 --> 00:42:29,239
Speaker 2: ahead in twenty twenty five. But first we'll hear a

863
00:42:29,320 --> 00:42:32,080
Speaker 2: quick word from our sponsors.

864
00:42:37,719 --> 00:42:38,600
Speaker 1: Welcome back to America.

865
00:42:38,680 --> 00:42:40,120
Speaker 2: Just a few more minutes before we hand off to

866
00:42:40,120 --> 00:42:42,760
Speaker 2: my good friend Grin Stinchfeld, And we're here with American

867
00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:46,600
Speaker 2: Conservation Coalition President and my good friend Chris Barnard. Chris,

868
00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:50,640
Speaker 2: I think the all of the above mantra, which has

869
00:42:50,680 --> 00:42:53,239
Speaker 2: been hottered by many presidents but not always executed. Barack

870
00:42:53,239 --> 00:42:55,719
Speaker 2: Obama said all above, but it really wasn't. Joe Biden said,

871
00:42:55,719 --> 00:42:59,040
Speaker 2: and all above really wasn't. It does seem like Donald

872
00:42:59,080 --> 00:43:02,920
Speaker 2: Trump's all of the approach could mean a really incredible

873
00:43:02,960 --> 00:43:06,280
Speaker 2: marriage between natural gas and nuclear power.

874
00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:07,319
Speaker 1: Am I seeing that right?

875
00:43:07,360 --> 00:43:09,640
Speaker 2: Are those things starting to come together as a powerhouse?

876
00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:11,880
Speaker 1: Yeah?

877
00:43:11,920 --> 00:43:15,200
Speaker 5: Well, the reality is that when you have an energy system,

878
00:43:15,239 --> 00:43:18,800
Speaker 5: you want it to be affordable and reliable. That's incredibly important,

879
00:43:18,840 --> 00:43:22,240
Speaker 5: and for so long this conversation has actually forgot about

880
00:43:22,360 --> 00:43:25,720
Speaker 5: the affordability and reliability piece of that. But also ideally

881
00:43:25,760 --> 00:43:28,719
Speaker 5: you want to have increasingly clean energy. And you look

882
00:43:28,760 --> 00:43:32,560
Speaker 5: at you mentioned nuclear. Nuclear is not just reliable and affordable,

883
00:43:32,600 --> 00:43:35,040
Speaker 5: it's also clean. It is the largest source of clean

884
00:43:35,080 --> 00:43:39,920
Speaker 5: electricity in America. There's so much exciting innovation happening with fusion,

885
00:43:40,360 --> 00:43:44,560
Speaker 5: with next generation small modular reactors, and America just needs

886
00:43:44,600 --> 00:43:47,319
Speaker 5: to continue building more nuclear reactors. And that's a matter

887
00:43:47,360 --> 00:43:50,200
Speaker 5: of letting us build again. Like we've talked about all

888
00:43:50,239 --> 00:43:53,000
Speaker 5: of today, is that is a political choice that we

889
00:43:53,000 --> 00:43:56,319
Speaker 5: can have. You mentioned natural gas. The reason why we

890
00:43:56,360 --> 00:43:59,560
Speaker 5: have reduced emissions more than the next eight countries combined

891
00:43:59,840 --> 00:44:02,319
Speaker 5: is because we've transitioned from coal to natural gas. That

892
00:44:02,440 --> 00:44:04,359
Speaker 5: was not a government thing, That was not a top

893
00:44:04,400 --> 00:44:07,799
Speaker 5: down mandate. That was American innovation coming up with a

894
00:44:07,840 --> 00:44:12,600
Speaker 5: superior technology, allowing us to unleash economic prosperity while reducing

895
00:44:12,600 --> 00:44:14,799
Speaker 5: emissions at the same time. I think that is the

896
00:44:14,800 --> 00:44:17,200
Speaker 5: way that you approach these kinds of questions with nuance

897
00:44:17,280 --> 00:44:18,680
Speaker 5: as opposed to with ideology.

898
00:44:19,120 --> 00:44:20,839
Speaker 1: Yeah.

899
00:44:21,160 --> 00:44:23,200
Speaker 2: All throughout the show, there's been one common theme the

900
00:44:23,239 --> 00:44:27,600
Speaker 2: importance of NEPA reform, the National Environmental Policy Act. How

901
00:44:27,640 --> 00:44:29,640
Speaker 2: important is it and how quick could it happen twenty

902
00:44:29,719 --> 00:44:31,840
Speaker 2: twenty five. It seems like a lot of groundwork was

903
00:44:31,880 --> 00:44:34,360
Speaker 2: laid during the twenty three and twenty four timeframe to

904
00:44:34,400 --> 00:44:36,480
Speaker 2: maybe make reform possible in twenty five.

905
00:44:38,360 --> 00:44:40,879
Speaker 5: Yeah, I really don't think it's an exaggeration to say

906
00:44:41,000 --> 00:44:45,240
Speaker 5: that dramatically reforming NEPA is probably one of the most

907
00:44:45,320 --> 00:44:48,839
Speaker 5: important economic and national security priorities for the United States

908
00:44:48,840 --> 00:44:51,479
Speaker 5: of America today. It is one of the biggest things

909
00:44:51,520 --> 00:44:55,400
Speaker 5: holding us back in our competition with China. It is

910
00:44:55,480 --> 00:44:59,920
Speaker 5: holding back productivity, holding back technological innovation. It is impair

911
00:45:00,400 --> 00:45:03,319
Speaker 5: our national security and our energy security. And you know

912
00:45:03,360 --> 00:45:07,000
Speaker 5: who actually started trying to do niper reform. It was

913
00:45:07,040 --> 00:45:09,879
Speaker 5: Trump in his first administration. That has been rolled back

914
00:45:09,920 --> 00:45:12,839
Speaker 5: in this current administration. And when Trump comes back in,

915
00:45:12,920 --> 00:45:15,920
Speaker 5: I hope that he'll continue prioritizing this because it is

916
00:45:16,000 --> 00:45:18,800
Speaker 5: just an incredibly important issue and if we get this wrong,

917
00:45:18,840 --> 00:45:20,719
Speaker 5: we might be putting ourselves at a disadvantage for a

918
00:45:20,760 --> 00:45:21,680
Speaker 5: generation to come.

919
00:45:22,040 --> 00:45:24,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, and China will be laughing at us as a

920
00:45:24,760 --> 00:45:28,600
Speaker 2: role on bias. A lot of interesting players in the

921
00:45:28,600 --> 00:45:31,520
Speaker 2: Trump administration EPA. Leez Elden may have one of the

922
00:45:31,560 --> 00:45:33,920
Speaker 2: biggest and toughest portfolios because you've got to change the

923
00:45:33,960 --> 00:45:36,240
Speaker 2: culture of the buocracy at the same time you're changing

924
00:45:36,280 --> 00:45:38,880
Speaker 2: the regulatory stature. He seems like a guy with a

925
00:45:38,920 --> 00:45:43,360
Speaker 2: lot of skill set. A lot of President Trump's success

926
00:45:43,400 --> 00:45:44,399
Speaker 2: is going to depend on him.

927
00:45:44,360 --> 00:45:46,319
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah.

928
00:45:46,320 --> 00:45:49,200
Speaker 5: I mean leez Elden was a champion for these issues

929
00:45:49,320 --> 00:45:51,400
Speaker 5: in Congress, and I fully expect him to be a

930
00:45:51,440 --> 00:45:54,680
Speaker 5: champion for these issues as administrator of the EPA. And

931
00:45:54,719 --> 00:45:56,480
Speaker 5: at the APA, you kind of have a tricky balance,

932
00:45:56,560 --> 00:45:59,400
Speaker 5: right because you don't want to stifle the economy. You

933
00:45:59,400 --> 00:46:03,080
Speaker 5: don't want to host unnecessary regulations while still having some

934
00:46:03,120 --> 00:46:05,399
Speaker 5: of the highest standards in the world for clean air

935
00:46:05,640 --> 00:46:07,400
Speaker 5: and clean water. I think there are a lot of

936
00:46:07,440 --> 00:46:10,560
Speaker 5: things that the EPA can do to remove toxic chemicals

937
00:46:10,840 --> 00:46:14,360
Speaker 5: out of our water systems to make America healthy again,

938
00:46:14,480 --> 00:46:17,600
Speaker 5: like everyone's talking about nowadays, and I think Lee's Elden

939
00:46:17,680 --> 00:46:18,360
Speaker 5: is the man to do that.

940
00:46:18,680 --> 00:46:18,919
Speaker 1: Yeah.

941
00:46:19,160 --> 00:46:21,440
Speaker 2: I think build Baby Build will be a real mantra

942
00:46:21,520 --> 00:46:23,560
Speaker 2: along with drill Baby Drop. I'm pretty sure that's going

943
00:46:23,600 --> 00:46:26,200
Speaker 2: to be it. There's already some pretty cool things happening

944
00:46:26,280 --> 00:46:28,880
Speaker 2: at this moment. Uranium minds are reopening in South Texas,

945
00:46:29,120 --> 00:46:32,719
Speaker 2: is cryptocurrency mining going on, some AI fuels demand is

946
00:46:32,760 --> 00:46:36,280
Speaker 2: creating these portable nuclear reactors, and then you've got companies

947
00:46:36,280 --> 00:46:38,279
Speaker 2: like Volta Grade which are creating these mini grids that

948
00:46:38,320 --> 00:46:42,880
Speaker 2: are transforming the way grids can be upgraded. The innovation

949
00:46:43,040 --> 00:46:45,600
Speaker 2: cycle is already started. Donald Trump is going to put

950
00:46:45,600 --> 00:46:46,399
Speaker 2: steroids into it.

951
00:46:48,120 --> 00:46:50,520
Speaker 5: Well, I really hope so, because the reality is that

952
00:46:50,560 --> 00:46:53,680
Speaker 5: our politics is lagged behind this technological progress. For a

953
00:46:53,800 --> 00:46:56,520
Speaker 5: very long time. We've been stuck in this very weird

954
00:46:56,880 --> 00:47:01,480
Speaker 5: technological tribalism between both sides, where on the left they've said, oh,

955
00:47:01,480 --> 00:47:02,960
Speaker 5: we just want win the solar and we'll get rid

956
00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:05,000
Speaker 5: of everything else, and on the right sometimes just said, well,

957
00:47:05,239 --> 00:47:06,759
Speaker 5: we're good with oil and gas and we don't need

958
00:47:06,760 --> 00:47:10,000
Speaker 5: these other innovations and technologies our approaches. Let's have all

959
00:47:10,000 --> 00:47:13,160
Speaker 5: of them. Let's win and compete and innovate in all

960
00:47:13,239 --> 00:47:16,440
Speaker 5: of these technologies. And the reality is in an increasingly

961
00:47:17,120 --> 00:47:21,000
Speaker 5: electrical and modernizing world, with AI and technology and all

962
00:47:21,040 --> 00:47:23,040
Speaker 5: the things that you have there, you just need to

963
00:47:23,080 --> 00:47:25,640
Speaker 5: have more sources of energy. You need to allow more innovation.

964
00:47:26,000 --> 00:47:29,839
Speaker 5: You need things like smart grids and nuclear reactors, and

965
00:47:30,000 --> 00:47:34,040
Speaker 5: just like flexible technological approaches to this. And I think

966
00:47:34,080 --> 00:47:36,600
Speaker 5: Trump understands that. I think if he's surrounding himself with

967
00:47:36,600 --> 00:47:39,560
Speaker 5: people like Elon Musk, who's been the pioneer of both

968
00:47:39,600 --> 00:47:42,880
Speaker 5: solar energy in America and electric vehicles, you need to

969
00:47:42,880 --> 00:47:45,080
Speaker 5: do it in the business smart way, and having people

970
00:47:45,120 --> 00:47:46,440
Speaker 5: like that at the top, I think is going to

971
00:47:46,480 --> 00:47:47,200
Speaker 5: be very helpful.

972
00:47:47,560 --> 00:47:50,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, no doubt. He really has some really interesting innovators

973
00:47:50,239 --> 00:47:53,279
Speaker 2: at the top of that cycle. We got a minute

974
00:47:53,360 --> 00:47:55,600
Speaker 2: left and I was thinking about the Trump two point

975
00:47:55,640 --> 00:47:58,480
Speaker 2: zero administration. It is the place where maybe all the

976
00:47:58,520 --> 00:48:00,880
Speaker 2: innovation cycle on the policy cycle catch up and there

977
00:48:01,000 --> 00:48:04,920
Speaker 2: is this incredible legacy of the next generation of America

978
00:48:05,040 --> 00:48:05,799
Speaker 2: that is born in.

979
00:48:05,760 --> 00:48:06,840
Speaker 1: These next four years.

980
00:48:07,160 --> 00:48:09,480
Speaker 2: Is that an overstatement or is that really the opportunity

981
00:48:09,560 --> 00:48:11,759
Speaker 2: that President Trump's been handed and he needs to execute.

982
00:48:13,360 --> 00:48:16,640
Speaker 5: I mean, Donald Trump has a pretty unprecedented mandate from

983
00:48:16,640 --> 00:48:19,520
Speaker 5: the American people, and I think he has the opportunity

984
00:48:19,560 --> 00:48:21,840
Speaker 5: to leave a legacy like we haven't seen in a

985
00:48:21,840 --> 00:48:25,240
Speaker 5: long time. He can allow us to get ahead truly

986
00:48:25,360 --> 00:48:28,480
Speaker 5: in our competition with China, and that requires letting us build,

987
00:48:28,560 --> 00:48:32,320
Speaker 5: cutting the red tape that holds us back, unleashing energy innovation,

988
00:48:33,040 --> 00:48:35,319
Speaker 5: all of the above, and it also means that we

989
00:48:35,360 --> 00:48:38,480
Speaker 5: can do things for our environment and for conservation that

990
00:48:38,640 --> 00:48:41,840
Speaker 5: many presidents have failed to do in the last few administrations.

991
00:48:42,080 --> 00:48:44,160
Speaker 5: We want to be able to make America beautiful again.

992
00:48:44,360 --> 00:48:47,319
Speaker 5: We want to pick up that Teddy Roosevelt legacy. Make

993
00:48:47,360 --> 00:48:50,120
Speaker 5: sure that all Americans have access to clean and healthy

994
00:48:50,200 --> 00:48:52,759
Speaker 5: water and air, that we're protecting our public lands in

995
00:48:52,800 --> 00:48:56,000
Speaker 5: our national parks. That is a deeply conservative message, and

996
00:48:56,040 --> 00:48:58,600
Speaker 5: I really believe that over the next four years, Donald

997
00:48:58,600 --> 00:49:02,480
Speaker 5: Trump has the opportunity to cement legacy as an environmental

998
00:49:02,520 --> 00:49:05,960
Speaker 5: president that is leading on energy innovation and on environmental conservation,

999
00:49:06,320 --> 00:49:08,919
Speaker 5: and future generations should want to thank him for that.

1000
00:49:09,440 --> 00:49:10,000
Speaker 1: It's amazing.

1001
00:49:10,040 --> 00:49:11,600
Speaker 2: But as ahead and a lot of the people don't know,

1002
00:49:11,600 --> 00:49:13,840
Speaker 2: President Trump signed one of the largest conservation.

1003
00:49:13,440 --> 00:49:15,520
Speaker 1: Pieces of the legislation in the history of the world

1004
00:49:15,800 --> 00:49:16,680
Speaker 1: just in his last term.

1005
00:49:17,160 --> 00:49:20,040
Speaker 2: Real Chris Well, quick, Chris, what's the best way for

1006
00:49:20,040 --> 00:49:21,399
Speaker 2: people to stay in touch with all the great work

1007
00:49:21,440 --> 00:49:22,280
Speaker 2: that ACC does.

1008
00:49:23,560 --> 00:49:26,880
Speaker 5: Yeah, check out our website. It's ACC dot eco. So

1009
00:49:26,960 --> 00:49:29,600
Speaker 5: ACC dot eco. You can sign up to be a member,

1010
00:49:29,640 --> 00:49:32,920
Speaker 5: you can support us again. We're the largest conservative environmental

1011
00:49:32,920 --> 00:49:34,759
Speaker 5: movement in the country. You know that this issue is

1012
00:49:34,880 --> 00:49:37,840
Speaker 5: a conservative issue and that we're going to make America

1013
00:49:37,880 --> 00:49:38,520
Speaker 5: beautiful again.

1014
00:49:39,160 --> 00:49:39,800
Speaker 1: Pretty amazing.

1015
00:49:39,880 --> 00:49:43,200
Speaker 2: Chris, thank you for making tonight's conversation possible. For all

1016
00:49:43,200 --> 00:49:44,520
Speaker 2: the work you're doing, We're gonna be sure to have

1017
00:49:44,560 --> 00:49:46,480
Speaker 2: you on a lot in twenty twenty five. But thanks

1018
00:49:46,480 --> 00:49:47,359
Speaker 2: for joining us my friend.

1019
00:49:47,600 --> 00:49:49,520
Speaker 1: All right, folks, that's all we got. It's time to

1020
00:49:49,520 --> 00:49:51,359
Speaker 1: hand up a time to our good friend Grandsted. Well,

1021
00:49:51,400 --> 00:49:54,000
Speaker 1: thanks for joining us for a very important conservation. Happy

1022
00:49:54,000 --> 00:49:59,200
Speaker 1: new year. We'll be back to back you