1 00:00:03,040 --> 00:00:05,840 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind from how Stuff 2 00:00:05,840 --> 00:00:14,360 Speaker 1: Works dot com. Hey you welcome to Stuff to Blow 3 00:00:14,400 --> 00:00:17,160 Speaker 1: your Mind. My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick, 4 00:00:17,160 --> 00:00:20,079 Speaker 1: and we're back with part two of our ig Nobel 5 00:00:20,200 --> 00:00:25,119 Speaker 1: Prize Recipients episode. I was gonna say, if you haven't 6 00:00:25,160 --> 00:00:26,920 Speaker 1: heard part one, you need to go back and listen 7 00:00:26,960 --> 00:00:28,880 Speaker 1: to that first, but you don't really. I mean, you 8 00:00:28,960 --> 00:00:30,640 Speaker 1: should go back and listen to it, but you can 9 00:00:30,720 --> 00:00:33,279 Speaker 1: understand this episode without hearing that one. That's right. We're 10 00:00:33,280 --> 00:00:36,000 Speaker 1: just covering all the winners across two episodes. Ultimately, it 11 00:00:36,000 --> 00:00:39,440 Speaker 1: doesn't matter which order you take them in. Uh. Though, 12 00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:41,760 Speaker 1: the top of the first episode has just a brief 13 00:00:41,800 --> 00:00:44,080 Speaker 1: section where we talk about what the ig Nobel Prizes are, 14 00:00:44,479 --> 00:00:46,960 Speaker 1: So if you're if you're not sure on that, I 15 00:00:47,159 --> 00:00:49,519 Speaker 1: would recommend checking that little bit out. But have you've 16 00:00:49,520 --> 00:00:51,360 Speaker 1: been listening to the show for years, you know that 17 00:00:51,800 --> 00:00:54,840 Speaker 1: we continually do this. We do this pretty much every November, 18 00:00:55,040 --> 00:00:57,960 Speaker 1: sometimes in October, but generally it's a November situation where 19 00:00:57,960 --> 00:01:01,280 Speaker 1: we catch back up see uh what the previous months 20 00:01:01,360 --> 00:01:06,120 Speaker 1: or technically September's UH honorees were for the ignoble prizes, 21 00:01:06,160 --> 00:01:08,520 Speaker 1: and we just talk about them a little bit. Sometime 22 00:01:08,600 --> 00:01:11,360 Speaker 1: the past, we've done, uh, you know, two hosts talking 23 00:01:11,400 --> 00:01:13,440 Speaker 1: about it. We've done three hosts talking about it. We've 24 00:01:13,440 --> 00:01:15,400 Speaker 1: tried to cover them all on a single episode. We've 25 00:01:15,400 --> 00:01:19,600 Speaker 1: covered them across three episodes. This week it's just Joe 26 00:01:19,640 --> 00:01:21,880 Speaker 1: and I and we are doing it in two episodes. 27 00:01:22,240 --> 00:01:25,400 Speaker 1: So some of these descriptions are shorter than others. That 28 00:01:25,560 --> 00:01:27,240 Speaker 1: kind of depends on what kind of meat is on 29 00:01:27,280 --> 00:01:29,480 Speaker 1: the bone. Speaking of if you haven't listened to our 30 00:01:29,560 --> 00:01:32,120 Speaker 1: last episode, it had some good stuff about cannibalism, so 31 00:01:32,160 --> 00:01:35,119 Speaker 1: I didn't check that out all right, well, speaking speaking 32 00:01:35,160 --> 00:01:39,240 Speaker 1: of meat, though, let's go ahead and jump into biology. Okay, 33 00:01:39,319 --> 00:01:42,839 Speaker 1: the biology prize. I gotta start with a question, Robert. 34 00:01:43,400 --> 00:01:46,200 Speaker 1: You know some people are these what would you call it, 35 00:01:46,280 --> 00:01:50,320 Speaker 1: the unbothered eaters, the the cool hand lukes of eating stuff. 36 00:01:50,800 --> 00:01:53,520 Speaker 1: If you're everything bagel falls on the floor, you just 37 00:01:53,600 --> 00:01:55,240 Speaker 1: pick it up and eat it. It's just a little 38 00:01:55,240 --> 00:01:57,880 Speaker 1: more of everything, right, Robert? Are you like that? Or 39 00:01:57,920 --> 00:02:00,640 Speaker 1: are you somebody who can't can't talk all erate getting 40 00:02:00,680 --> 00:02:03,120 Speaker 1: a few hairs off the floor on your food? Who? 41 00:02:03,240 --> 00:02:05,840 Speaker 1: Uh if I am not going to pick a hair 42 00:02:06,080 --> 00:02:08,440 Speaker 1: off of it. But if I dropped something and it's 43 00:02:08,480 --> 00:02:11,120 Speaker 1: just there for a second and the floor looks relatively clean, 44 00:02:11,360 --> 00:02:13,919 Speaker 1: especially if it's in my own house, then yes, I'll 45 00:02:13,919 --> 00:02:16,960 Speaker 1: probably eat it. I do have limits, though, I mean, 46 00:02:16,960 --> 00:02:19,280 Speaker 1: there have been times, especially when I've been places with 47 00:02:19,320 --> 00:02:22,000 Speaker 1: my son, who, especially when he was a little younger, 48 00:02:22,440 --> 00:02:24,959 Speaker 1: there was a higher probability that what he was trying 49 00:02:25,000 --> 00:02:28,440 Speaker 1: to eat might fall onto the ground. I like, I 50 00:02:28,480 --> 00:02:33,120 Speaker 1: particularly remember eating these delicious fish sandwiches in Barbados to 51 00:02:33,240 --> 00:02:37,040 Speaker 1: this place called Kuzzes cutters cutter being the uh the 52 00:02:37,080 --> 00:02:39,840 Speaker 1: boji and I believe slang for a sandwich. But it 53 00:02:39,880 --> 00:02:42,880 Speaker 1: was just like a delicious fish and cheese sandwich with 54 00:02:42,919 --> 00:02:46,639 Speaker 1: some boji and hot sauce, absolutely delightful, and we were 55 00:02:46,760 --> 00:02:48,919 Speaker 1: just eating it over just this uh like it was 56 00:02:49,000 --> 00:02:52,760 Speaker 1: just you know, like gravel and some bottle caps, and 57 00:02:52,880 --> 00:02:55,800 Speaker 1: it was just on the brink of falling apart in 58 00:02:55,880 --> 00:02:58,280 Speaker 1: my son's hands, and I just I just saw it 59 00:02:58,280 --> 00:03:00,600 Speaker 1: in my mind, like that fish is going to the ground. 60 00:03:00,880 --> 00:03:03,840 Speaker 1: The fish Patty's gonna jump out of the sandwich and 61 00:03:03,880 --> 00:03:06,680 Speaker 1: there's gonna just gonna be no reclaiming it. Luckily, it 62 00:03:06,680 --> 00:03:09,400 Speaker 1: didn't happen, Well, thank the gods for that. That's a 63 00:03:09,480 --> 00:03:11,679 Speaker 1: that's a deliverance. But if I were in my own 64 00:03:11,680 --> 00:03:14,120 Speaker 1: house and that were to happen, I would say, no, 65 00:03:14,240 --> 00:03:16,520 Speaker 1: we're not throwing that fish patty out. We're gonna pick 66 00:03:16,560 --> 00:03:18,200 Speaker 1: that up. We're gonna brush it off, and you can 67 00:03:18,240 --> 00:03:20,639 Speaker 1: finish it. Okay, Parts two and three coming. Part two. 68 00:03:20,880 --> 00:03:22,840 Speaker 1: You're at a restaurant. You find a hair in your soup. 69 00:03:22,919 --> 00:03:24,600 Speaker 1: Do you just pick it out and keep eating the 70 00:03:24,639 --> 00:03:26,960 Speaker 1: soup or do you eat the hair or do you 71 00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:29,960 Speaker 1: abandon the bowl completely? I think I have. I have 72 00:03:30,040 --> 00:03:34,280 Speaker 1: a pretty good ability to quickly remove a hair and 73 00:03:34,280 --> 00:03:36,720 Speaker 1: and almost kind of delete the memory of it occurring 74 00:03:37,160 --> 00:03:39,480 Speaker 1: and keep going, especially as long as it's you know, 75 00:03:39,560 --> 00:03:42,360 Speaker 1: relatively good. If if the food was already offending me, 76 00:03:42,440 --> 00:03:44,080 Speaker 1: I don't know, it might be different. Yeah, you like 77 00:03:44,160 --> 00:03:47,800 Speaker 1: men in black pin yourself. It's just like it's wiped clean. 78 00:03:48,480 --> 00:03:51,120 Speaker 1: Didn't not seeing it? Now, didn't see it. You're just 79 00:03:51,160 --> 00:03:54,040 Speaker 1: gonna keep moving. Okay, here's the last one. What if 80 00:03:54,040 --> 00:03:56,560 Speaker 1: there's a fly in your glass of wine or your 81 00:03:56,600 --> 00:03:59,640 Speaker 1: cocktail or whatever, do you still drink it? Or is 82 00:03:59,680 --> 00:04:03,120 Speaker 1: the ruined? Has the has the fly simply landed on 83 00:04:03,160 --> 00:04:05,480 Speaker 1: the glass, or is it floating dead in my drink. 84 00:04:06,320 --> 00:04:08,760 Speaker 1: That's a good question. It's let's just say it's in 85 00:04:08,880 --> 00:04:12,160 Speaker 1: it's in the liquid. It's in there. Well, once it's 86 00:04:12,160 --> 00:04:14,000 Speaker 1: in the liquid, that is kind of gross. I mean, 87 00:04:14,080 --> 00:04:17,200 Speaker 1: you can't help, especially if you're drinking something outside. You 88 00:04:17,240 --> 00:04:20,040 Speaker 1: can't help, but have fly or even like a yellow 89 00:04:20,120 --> 00:04:23,200 Speaker 1: jacket or something sometimes land on your drink and there's 90 00:04:23,240 --> 00:04:25,600 Speaker 1: nothing to be done. If a fly is just floating 91 00:04:25,600 --> 00:04:29,520 Speaker 1: in there, I might have to send it back. Sometimes 92 00:04:29,520 --> 00:04:32,240 Speaker 1: those flies can be disease vectors. Yeah, you don't know 93 00:04:32,279 --> 00:04:34,279 Speaker 1: what they were landing on before this. They might have 94 00:04:34,279 --> 00:04:36,719 Speaker 1: been on sewage. I mean, I think that's that's a 95 00:04:36,720 --> 00:04:38,760 Speaker 1: bridge too far from me. Even though it's gross enough 96 00:04:38,800 --> 00:04:41,839 Speaker 1: if one lands on something you're eating or drinking, but 97 00:04:41,880 --> 00:04:44,720 Speaker 1: there's something about the fleeting contact. As gross as it is. 98 00:04:45,000 --> 00:04:47,039 Speaker 1: I can again, I can use the I can delete 99 00:04:47,040 --> 00:04:49,279 Speaker 1: the memory and keep moving. But if I have to 100 00:04:49,360 --> 00:04:52,599 Speaker 1: fish the body out of my drink, I don't know. Well, 101 00:04:52,640 --> 00:04:54,760 Speaker 1: here's another thing. Have you ever noticed if a fly 102 00:04:54,920 --> 00:04:58,520 Speaker 1: landed in your drink if you could smell it. No, 103 00:04:58,839 --> 00:05:02,039 Speaker 1: I've never noticed that. Well, maybe this is something to 104 00:05:02,120 --> 00:05:05,880 Speaker 1: check out next time, because that's what this year's Biology 105 00:05:05,920 --> 00:05:10,280 Speaker 1: Prize concerns. So the the paper in question here is 106 00:05:10,320 --> 00:05:14,120 Speaker 1: called The Scent of the Fly by Paul Betcher, Sebastian 107 00:05:14,680 --> 00:05:20,000 Speaker 1: le Breton, Erica Wallen, Eric Headenstrom, Philippe Berrero, Echo, Verry, 108 00:05:20,560 --> 00:05:28,160 Speaker 1: Marie Bankson, Vulcar Jorger, Peter witzkall, oh, that's the whole list. Sorry, congrats. 109 00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:30,120 Speaker 1: I would have just at all the crap out of 110 00:05:30,160 --> 00:05:33,560 Speaker 1: that one. Oh man, I probably should have. But yeah, okay, 111 00:05:33,600 --> 00:05:37,520 Speaker 1: so I've got a new word for you, Robert simio chemicals. 112 00:05:38,000 --> 00:05:41,560 Speaker 1: Heard that one, simio chemicals. Okay, it just means chemicals 113 00:05:41,680 --> 00:05:47,440 Speaker 1: used for communication, like semiotics, signs study of science sending communications. 114 00:05:47,440 --> 00:05:50,240 Speaker 1: So the authors of this study point out that all 115 00:05:50,320 --> 00:05:54,279 Speaker 1: living things communicate by way of chemicals, quote, unlike sounds 116 00:05:54,320 --> 00:05:59,240 Speaker 1: or sites, simio chemicals interconnect species across kingdoms and enable 117 00:05:59,320 --> 00:06:04,080 Speaker 1: information exchange between animals, plants, and microorganisms. And I think 118 00:06:04,080 --> 00:06:07,839 Speaker 1: there's some indication that's true, like that they're chemical signals 119 00:06:07,880 --> 00:06:11,239 Speaker 1: that allow your body to communicate with your microbiome. Yeah, 120 00:06:11,279 --> 00:06:13,840 Speaker 1: all right, or maybe I'm going on on on in here, 121 00:06:13,839 --> 00:06:15,840 Speaker 1: but I mean it seems like Some obvious ones would 122 00:06:15,839 --> 00:06:21,760 Speaker 1: be the smell of rotting flesh or rotting organic material, right, 123 00:06:21,880 --> 00:06:24,880 Speaker 1: kind of sends a signal across a species. Yes, you're 124 00:06:24,880 --> 00:06:28,240 Speaker 1: communicating in a way with the bacteria that are consuming 125 00:06:28,279 --> 00:06:31,200 Speaker 1: that flesh. And also i'd imagine that the smell of 126 00:06:31,240 --> 00:06:34,800 Speaker 1: something especially sweet, the smell of nectar, etcetera. Right, you 127 00:06:35,080 --> 00:06:38,280 Speaker 1: might be communicating with a plant. Yeah, exactly. So a 128 00:06:38,320 --> 00:06:42,960 Speaker 1: fascinating takeaway from this knowledge is that the same one 129 00:06:43,040 --> 00:06:48,240 Speaker 1: biocompound maybe bioactive for different species in different ways. In 130 00:06:48,240 --> 00:06:53,279 Speaker 1: other words, one semiochemical communicates something to both you and 131 00:06:53,400 --> 00:06:57,039 Speaker 1: some other animals, say your dog or an insect, but 132 00:06:57,240 --> 00:07:00,760 Speaker 1: what it communicates is radically different. And anybody who has 133 00:07:00,800 --> 00:07:03,680 Speaker 1: a dog, in fact, probably is familiar with this because 134 00:07:03,720 --> 00:07:07,679 Speaker 1: something that smells repulsive to you smells delicious to your dog. 135 00:07:08,680 --> 00:07:12,320 Speaker 1: Uh So, one example is don't you just love the clean, 136 00:07:12,560 --> 00:07:15,960 Speaker 1: fresh scent of citrus? You know, it's like it's a 137 00:07:16,080 --> 00:07:19,600 Speaker 1: very calming smell that makes you feel like everything is 138 00:07:19,640 --> 00:07:23,239 Speaker 1: spick and span. Yes, unless it's actual spick and span. 139 00:07:23,440 --> 00:07:27,040 Speaker 1: You know, I don't know actual spickin span. Spickin span 140 00:07:27,120 --> 00:07:29,880 Speaker 1: is a cleaning product, right, which is yeah, yeah, yeah, 141 00:07:29,960 --> 00:07:31,920 Speaker 1: that's right, but it does this touches on one of 142 00:07:31,920 --> 00:07:35,440 Speaker 1: the key differences for me. If it's legitimate citrus, yes, 143 00:07:35,520 --> 00:07:38,200 Speaker 1: it's beautiful. I love the smell. But if it's something 144 00:07:38,240 --> 00:07:41,960 Speaker 1: that it is, like a fake lemon smell, then there's 145 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:46,120 Speaker 1: something unnatural about that. Well, did you know I actually 146 00:07:46,200 --> 00:07:48,320 Speaker 1: came across the paper while I was reading about this 147 00:07:48,680 --> 00:07:51,600 Speaker 1: that found that, like the title of it was something like, 148 00:07:51,920 --> 00:07:57,000 Speaker 1: lemon fresh scent causes flies to lay eggs. It's a 149 00:07:57,120 --> 00:08:00,320 Speaker 1: lemon fresh scent. It's a chemical cue that says to you, ah, 150 00:08:00,320 --> 00:08:03,320 Speaker 1: this place is clean and delightful, unless maybe it's the 151 00:08:04,120 --> 00:08:06,840 Speaker 1: synthetic smelling kind that you don't like. But so this 152 00:08:06,880 --> 00:08:08,880 Speaker 1: one might be why the fly would be seeking out, 153 00:08:08,880 --> 00:08:11,760 Speaker 1: say my tiki drink. Yeah, it's got a lemon fresh scent. 154 00:08:12,160 --> 00:08:15,320 Speaker 1: It says to the flies, lay your eggs here, this 155 00:08:15,360 --> 00:08:19,080 Speaker 1: is a great place. And this is probably because the 156 00:08:19,200 --> 00:08:24,680 Speaker 1: vinegar fly Drosophila melana gaster prefers to deposit its eggs 157 00:08:24,720 --> 00:08:27,680 Speaker 1: in the peel of citrus fruit as long as yeast 158 00:08:27,760 --> 00:08:30,760 Speaker 1: is present there. And so this particular study, the the 159 00:08:30,800 --> 00:08:35,040 Speaker 1: Ignoble winning study, focuses on a compound called Z four 160 00:08:35,320 --> 00:08:39,920 Speaker 1: undescinal or Z four eleven a L undicinel or dc 161 00:08:40,160 --> 00:08:43,720 Speaker 1: aldehyde is an organic compound that can be found in 162 00:08:43,800 --> 00:08:46,800 Speaker 1: citrus oils. So Z four eleven a L you can 163 00:08:46,840 --> 00:08:50,120 Speaker 1: associate it with with a kind of citrus peel, clear, 164 00:08:50,160 --> 00:08:53,120 Speaker 1: oily liquid kind of thing, And it is one of 165 00:08:53,120 --> 00:08:56,320 Speaker 1: these volatile compounds that plays a role in the life 166 00:08:56,360 --> 00:09:00,600 Speaker 1: of multiple organisms. In vinegar flies, Z four or eleven 167 00:09:00,600 --> 00:09:03,560 Speaker 1: a L is produced by females and it seems to 168 00:09:03,559 --> 00:09:07,160 Speaker 1: play a role in the attraction of male mates. But 169 00:09:07,360 --> 00:09:11,280 Speaker 1: Z four eleven a L is also bioactive in other organisms. 170 00:09:11,320 --> 00:09:14,080 Speaker 1: For example, Z four eleven a L is produced in 171 00:09:14,120 --> 00:09:18,119 Speaker 1: the anal glands of male rabbits such as the European 172 00:09:18,160 --> 00:09:21,679 Speaker 1: wild rabbit. And it's got a mini splendored scientific name 173 00:09:22,160 --> 00:09:26,559 Speaker 1: or ricto legas coniculus. Yeah, that's like it. That should 174 00:09:26,559 --> 00:09:29,440 Speaker 1: be a bond villain name. And so experts believe this 175 00:09:29,559 --> 00:09:33,559 Speaker 1: volatile compound might play some role in territorial marking uh. 176 00:09:33,679 --> 00:09:36,240 Speaker 1: And one reason for thinking that is that, like studies 177 00:09:36,240 --> 00:09:38,839 Speaker 1: have found that when you have other male rabbits smell 178 00:09:38,960 --> 00:09:42,360 Speaker 1: this compound, their heart rates shoot up, maybe like oh, 179 00:09:42,440 --> 00:09:47,240 Speaker 1: there's another dude around here. Not having a um. A 180 00:09:47,360 --> 00:09:49,920 Speaker 1: related similar scent has also been found to emanate from 181 00:09:49,920 --> 00:09:53,040 Speaker 1: the colonies of a c bird called the crested auklet, 182 00:09:53,400 --> 00:09:56,920 Speaker 1: which is Ethia Christa tella. And this scent has been 183 00:09:57,000 --> 00:10:00,720 Speaker 1: tracked to two associated alde hydes. It's not exactly the same, 184 00:10:00,720 --> 00:10:03,000 Speaker 1: it's not Z four eleven a L, but it's the 185 00:10:03,240 --> 00:10:08,360 Speaker 1: chain shortened analog Z four decinal as Z four ten 186 00:10:08,440 --> 00:10:12,360 Speaker 1: a L and Z two decinal and researchers think that 187 00:10:12,400 --> 00:10:16,679 Speaker 1: these smells function as a parasite repellent and an advertisement 188 00:10:16,720 --> 00:10:19,880 Speaker 1: of mate quality. Another another interesting link, like we've talked 189 00:10:19,880 --> 00:10:23,960 Speaker 1: about before, between mating advertisements and the avoidance of parasites. Right, 190 00:10:24,280 --> 00:10:26,760 Speaker 1: sometimes when you're showing off how good of a mate 191 00:10:26,800 --> 00:10:28,360 Speaker 1: you are, what you want to show is I got 192 00:10:28,400 --> 00:10:30,760 Speaker 1: no parasites on me. Look and see. Oh and I 193 00:10:30,800 --> 00:10:33,760 Speaker 1: also just included an image of what crested auklets look 194 00:10:33,840 --> 00:10:37,200 Speaker 1: like because they look really funny. Oh yeah, they're they're beautiful. 195 00:10:37,360 --> 00:10:39,120 Speaker 1: They're are some beautiful birds. And if you want to 196 00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:42,280 Speaker 1: check out a picture of them again, that the spelling 197 00:10:42,320 --> 00:10:45,800 Speaker 1: on that auklet is a u k l et. Yeah, 198 00:10:45,880 --> 00:10:49,040 Speaker 1: they've got um so they've got crests like sort of 199 00:10:49,080 --> 00:10:52,200 Speaker 1: mohawks going out of I don't know what you'd call 200 00:10:52,280 --> 00:10:54,080 Speaker 1: that part of the face, the bridge of the nose 201 00:10:54,240 --> 00:10:58,040 Speaker 1: over the beak, uh that like shoot out forward and 202 00:10:58,080 --> 00:11:01,600 Speaker 1: then they've got really funny google there are like googly 203 00:11:01,640 --> 00:11:06,360 Speaker 1: eyes those eyes. But anyway, but so back to the compound. 204 00:11:06,360 --> 00:11:08,240 Speaker 1: We're talking about Z four eleven a L. But the 205 00:11:08,240 --> 00:11:11,760 Speaker 1: funny thing this study found is that apparently humans are 206 00:11:11,840 --> 00:11:15,480 Speaker 1: also highly sensitive to the smell of this particular compound. 207 00:11:15,559 --> 00:11:18,000 Speaker 1: So it comes out of rabbit anal glands, it comes 208 00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:23,080 Speaker 1: out of auklets, but humans also find significant the smell 209 00:11:23,120 --> 00:11:25,920 Speaker 1: of Z four eleven a L, even in tiny quantities. 210 00:11:25,960 --> 00:11:29,800 Speaker 1: And thus humans are highly sensitive to the smell of 211 00:11:29,840 --> 00:11:32,760 Speaker 1: the female fruit flies or not fruit flies. Actually they're 212 00:11:32,800 --> 00:11:35,520 Speaker 1: often called fruit flies, but technically they are vinegar flies 213 00:11:35,920 --> 00:11:39,160 Speaker 1: vinegar flies that produce it. And there was an experiment 214 00:11:39,160 --> 00:11:42,400 Speaker 1: that proved this. It was a wine tasting. So you've 215 00:11:42,400 --> 00:11:45,240 Speaker 1: got eight members in the study. That was two women 216 00:11:45,280 --> 00:11:49,040 Speaker 1: and six men who were trained wine assessors, wine experts. 217 00:11:49,080 --> 00:11:52,040 Speaker 1: You know that those people the smela types who I 218 00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:56,000 Speaker 1: think they worked in the wine industry assessing wines in Germany, 219 00:11:56,400 --> 00:12:00,800 Speaker 1: and each sample the aroma of multiple randomized glasses across 220 00:12:00,840 --> 00:12:04,240 Speaker 1: a few tests. So across the different tests, these glasses 221 00:12:04,320 --> 00:12:07,760 Speaker 1: contained either nothing in the control condition, or the scent 222 00:12:07,840 --> 00:12:10,720 Speaker 1: of a female fly, which produces the compound, the scent 223 00:12:10,760 --> 00:12:13,400 Speaker 1: of a male fly, which does not produce the compound. 224 00:12:13,760 --> 00:12:17,560 Speaker 1: Various amounts of synthesized like lab made Z four eleven 225 00:12:17,600 --> 00:12:21,480 Speaker 1: a l uh tested against a background content of nothing, 226 00:12:22,040 --> 00:12:24,600 Speaker 1: water or white wine. I believe it was a dry 227 00:12:24,679 --> 00:12:29,040 Speaker 1: Pinot blanc from and the results were that tasters could 228 00:12:29,200 --> 00:12:33,280 Speaker 1: strongly detect the smell of a single female fly or 229 00:12:33,320 --> 00:12:35,839 Speaker 1: the presence of isolated Z four eleven a l in 230 00:12:35,880 --> 00:12:39,680 Speaker 1: the glass. It was even perceptible at one nanogram that's 231 00:12:39,720 --> 00:12:43,080 Speaker 1: one billionth of a gram per glass. So even at 232 00:12:43,080 --> 00:12:47,040 Speaker 1: the smallest concentrations, the compound was described as unpleasant and 233 00:12:47,240 --> 00:12:50,840 Speaker 1: as an off flavor. At higher concentrations it was perceived 234 00:12:50,840 --> 00:12:54,480 Speaker 1: as a loud off flavor. And so the author's right quote. 235 00:12:54,520 --> 00:12:58,000 Speaker 1: This supports the observation that one fly spoils a glass 236 00:12:58,040 --> 00:13:00,720 Speaker 1: of wine after falling into it. I did. It is 237 00:13:00,800 --> 00:13:04,040 Speaker 1: of the female sex, so it wouldn't just be the 238 00:13:04,080 --> 00:13:07,480 Speaker 1: conceptual gross out of having a fly fall in your wine. 239 00:13:07,480 --> 00:13:09,959 Speaker 1: You wouldn't have to think through, Oh this could be 240 00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:12,480 Speaker 1: a disease vector, or oh it's grossing me out for 241 00:13:12,520 --> 00:13:15,240 Speaker 1: this reason or another. Just if it's a female fly, 242 00:13:15,520 --> 00:13:18,400 Speaker 1: just the smell of it could be repellent enough that 243 00:13:18,480 --> 00:13:20,840 Speaker 1: you would detect it and you would find the glass 244 00:13:20,880 --> 00:13:25,680 Speaker 1: revolting afterwards. Interesting. So that's the funny part of the study. Obviously, 245 00:13:25,920 --> 00:13:29,960 Speaker 1: you've got wine wine tasters like sniffing glasses with flies 246 00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:33,319 Speaker 1: in them, right, and everybody loves up. I mean, anytime 247 00:13:33,360 --> 00:13:37,080 Speaker 1: there's a scientific article about wine or wine tasting, uh, 248 00:13:37,200 --> 00:13:41,000 Speaker 1: people tend to read it, even if it's relatively unamusing. 249 00:13:41,080 --> 00:13:44,599 Speaker 1: But I actually would love to do another episode in 250 00:13:44,640 --> 00:13:48,560 Speaker 1: the future just on wine and wine tasting, and not 251 00:13:48,600 --> 00:13:50,640 Speaker 1: only the like the biological aspects, but of course the 252 00:13:50,679 --> 00:13:53,559 Speaker 1: psychological aspects. We have an older episode of stuff to 253 00:13:53,559 --> 00:13:55,120 Speaker 1: blow your mind that went into it a little bit, 254 00:13:55,440 --> 00:13:59,480 Speaker 1: but I feel like didn't really give the the the 255 00:14:00,040 --> 00:14:04,439 Speaker 1: importance of of of priming and the psychological weight of 256 00:14:04,440 --> 00:14:07,440 Speaker 1: of wine tasting. You know, your expectations, the story that's 257 00:14:07,480 --> 00:14:10,040 Speaker 1: told about it, etcetera. I would be more than happy 258 00:14:10,080 --> 00:14:13,520 Speaker 1: to come back to that. Uh. So that's the funny part. 259 00:14:13,600 --> 00:14:17,240 Speaker 1: The funny part is them sniffing flies. The interesting question, though, 260 00:14:17,520 --> 00:14:21,200 Speaker 1: is why why are humans so sensitive to Z four 261 00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:24,400 Speaker 1: eleven A l It's this compound that's very relevant to 262 00:14:24,400 --> 00:14:27,160 Speaker 1: the lives of these vinegar flies. Right, So, if you're 263 00:14:27,160 --> 00:14:31,280 Speaker 1: a drosophila, this this compound is super important to your 264 00:14:31,360 --> 00:14:35,640 Speaker 1: mating process. But why do humans find it repellent in 265 00:14:35,760 --> 00:14:39,080 Speaker 1: food consumption contexts? The answer to this question is not 266 00:14:39,240 --> 00:14:41,920 Speaker 1: currently known. It's not clear that this compound is of 267 00:14:41,960 --> 00:14:46,680 Speaker 1: any biological significance to humans. So the author's hypothesized, well, 268 00:14:46,760 --> 00:14:50,080 Speaker 1: let's see what could be the reasons. Maybe it's reminiscent 269 00:14:50,240 --> 00:14:53,760 Speaker 1: they say, of quote other food alde hides, so like 270 00:14:53,800 --> 00:14:56,600 Speaker 1: our sensitivity to it could be part of a general 271 00:14:56,720 --> 00:15:01,120 Speaker 1: food hunting olfactory package. But then again, why would it 272 00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:03,760 Speaker 1: repel us in the context of wine? And we know 273 00:15:03,800 --> 00:15:07,360 Speaker 1: that sometimes some food smells can be attractive in one 274 00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:12,720 Speaker 1: context and repellent in another, like certain smells associated with cheese. Right, Yeah, 275 00:15:12,840 --> 00:15:14,880 Speaker 1: there have been some wonderful studies that have shown that 276 00:15:14,920 --> 00:15:16,920 Speaker 1: if you smell the same thing, if you're told that 277 00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:19,240 Speaker 1: it's a shoe, you'll be grossed out. If you're told 278 00:15:19,280 --> 00:15:22,880 Speaker 1: that it's it's a cheese, then you'll run grab some crackers. Delicious, Yeah, 279 00:15:22,960 --> 00:15:25,480 Speaker 1: And I suspect that same smell which would seem to 280 00:15:25,520 --> 00:15:28,480 Speaker 1: be delicious on a cheese, if you smelled it on, like, 281 00:15:28,600 --> 00:15:32,160 Speaker 1: I don't know, a bunch of strawberries or something, you 282 00:15:32,160 --> 00:15:34,480 Speaker 1: would probably think something was wrong with them. You'd be 283 00:15:34,480 --> 00:15:37,200 Speaker 1: grossed out. But I don't know that that's just my 284 00:15:37,840 --> 00:15:42,200 Speaker 1: I'm supposing. But then again, they also hypothesize. The authors 285 00:15:42,280 --> 00:15:44,920 Speaker 1: do that the human sensitivity could exist in order to 286 00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:49,800 Speaker 1: quote avert ingestion of fruit that is infested with vinegar flies, which, 287 00:15:49,840 --> 00:15:51,760 Speaker 1: as we were talking about earlier, can of course be 288 00:15:52,080 --> 00:15:55,080 Speaker 1: covered in microbes and can easily be a disease vector. 289 00:15:55,360 --> 00:15:57,520 Speaker 1: But at this time we just don't know the answer. 290 00:15:57,560 --> 00:16:01,400 Speaker 1: We don't know why this smell is so salient to humans. 291 00:16:01,440 --> 00:16:03,400 Speaker 1: You would think there need to be a reason for that, 292 00:16:03,440 --> 00:16:06,200 Speaker 1: but we don't know what it is. Also, the authors 293 00:16:06,200 --> 00:16:08,240 Speaker 1: note that Z four eleven a L is of course 294 00:16:08,280 --> 00:16:11,800 Speaker 1: found in citrus essential oils. For example, it's part of 295 00:16:11,800 --> 00:16:14,120 Speaker 1: the smell of clementines, and the authors point out that 296 00:16:14,160 --> 00:16:17,040 Speaker 1: it could play a double role in signaling, not just 297 00:16:17,120 --> 00:16:19,240 Speaker 1: as a sign of food, but as a sign of 298 00:16:19,240 --> 00:16:23,040 Speaker 1: of social significance. For example, mate location or territory marking 299 00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:26,520 Speaker 1: in not just flies, but other animals as well, coming 300 00:16:26,520 --> 00:16:29,560 Speaker 1: back to this theme that the same compound that's uh, 301 00:16:29,640 --> 00:16:33,120 Speaker 1: that's very significant to one animal could be significant but 302 00:16:33,360 --> 00:16:35,720 Speaker 1: have a totally different meaning to a different animal. And 303 00:16:35,800 --> 00:16:38,320 Speaker 1: ultimately the authors proposed at the end that they just 304 00:16:38,360 --> 00:16:41,280 Speaker 1: want more research to provide a deeper understanding sort of 305 00:16:41,280 --> 00:16:45,320 Speaker 1: of the the ecology of smells, the way volatile compounds 306 00:16:45,360 --> 00:16:48,720 Speaker 1: connect different organisms to one another, and they write quote 307 00:16:48,720 --> 00:16:53,760 Speaker 1: a future challenges to extend functional behavioral, ecological, and phylogenetic 308 00:16:53,800 --> 00:16:57,200 Speaker 1: studies to include vertebrates toward an understanding of the chemical 309 00:16:57,320 --> 00:17:01,840 Speaker 1: vocabulary that interconnects us with other living things. This is 310 00:17:01,880 --> 00:17:05,399 Speaker 1: a great um uh prize winner for the Igno Bells. 311 00:17:05,440 --> 00:17:09,120 Speaker 1: I think because it touches on tours for for starters, 312 00:17:09,400 --> 00:17:14,560 Speaker 1: it has that obvious, funny mental image of someone smelling 313 00:17:14,640 --> 00:17:17,520 Speaker 1: the wine and saying, there's a fly in this. But 314 00:17:17,640 --> 00:17:20,720 Speaker 1: then it does get into this, like the deeper roll 315 00:17:20,760 --> 00:17:25,000 Speaker 1: of these chemical signals and and the mystery of exactly 316 00:17:25,320 --> 00:17:28,080 Speaker 1: why they're setting us off like this. Uh, there there's 317 00:17:28,119 --> 00:17:30,600 Speaker 1: a mystery to it. Yeah. I liked this one a lot. Alright, 318 00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:32,040 Speaker 1: on that note, we're gonna take a quick break and 319 00:17:32,040 --> 00:17:34,840 Speaker 1: when we come back we will look at another two 320 00:17:34,840 --> 00:17:41,320 Speaker 1: thousand eighteen Ignoble Prize winner. Than alright, we're back, al right, 321 00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:45,520 Speaker 1: So I'm I want to talk about the Reproductive Medicine Prize. Okay, 322 00:17:45,640 --> 00:17:48,200 Speaker 1: So this I like how they have a special category 323 00:17:48,200 --> 00:17:53,600 Speaker 1: for reproductive medicine because stuff in there. Yeah, yeah, because there, 324 00:17:53,640 --> 00:17:56,320 Speaker 1: it's gonna be a lot of essentially a lot of 325 00:17:56,320 --> 00:17:58,760 Speaker 1: penis jokes, I think are the typical winners. I'm gonna 326 00:17:58,760 --> 00:18:01,240 Speaker 1: have to look back at some past winner is to 327 00:18:00,920 --> 00:18:03,320 Speaker 1: to make sure that's the case, but it's certainly the 328 00:18:03,359 --> 00:18:08,479 Speaker 1: case with with this particular winner. The title of the 329 00:18:08,480 --> 00:18:11,840 Speaker 1: study that is honored is Nocturnal penile uh to me 330 00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:16,840 Speaker 1: essence monitoring with stamps stamps like postage stamps, Yes, with 331 00:18:16,920 --> 00:18:19,720 Speaker 1: postage stamps kind you get in the post office exactly. 332 00:18:20,600 --> 00:18:22,720 Speaker 1: And this is was published in Neurology back in nineteen 333 00:18:22,840 --> 00:18:27,960 Speaker 1: eighty by authors that Barry blank In Boulou. So for 334 00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:29,520 Speaker 1: this one, we're gonna have to talk a little bit 335 00:18:29,520 --> 00:18:34,200 Speaker 1: about nocturnal penile too me essence or mpt is. It's 336 00:18:34,240 --> 00:18:37,480 Speaker 1: also known exactly what is this this is? Of course 337 00:18:37,880 --> 00:18:41,439 Speaker 1: morning would is that's kind of the colloquial term, right. Uh, 338 00:18:41,480 --> 00:18:44,040 Speaker 1: this is the common sling for it. This is often 339 00:18:44,160 --> 00:18:50,439 Speaker 1: this is experienced by males, a waking and perhaps unexplained erection. Now, 340 00:18:51,040 --> 00:18:53,560 Speaker 1: the interesting thing, of course, is that the stiffening of 341 00:18:53,600 --> 00:18:56,160 Speaker 1: the member in question is not the work of devilish 342 00:18:56,200 --> 00:19:00,879 Speaker 1: succubi or experimenting aliens. I'm sure have been blamed over 343 00:19:00,920 --> 00:19:03,639 Speaker 1: the years. So yeah, I think that obviously we just 344 00:19:03,800 --> 00:19:05,520 Speaker 1: think of it. You have say, particularly if you have 345 00:19:05,560 --> 00:19:10,000 Speaker 1: a pious individual, someone who is due to their particular 346 00:19:10,040 --> 00:19:13,840 Speaker 1: religious thinking, you know, ab whore the temptations of the 347 00:19:13,880 --> 00:19:18,280 Speaker 1: flesh and um, you know, are staving off their their 348 00:19:18,320 --> 00:19:21,160 Speaker 1: primal hunger. What what does it mean when they're waking 349 00:19:21,240 --> 00:19:24,440 Speaker 1: up in the night or in the morning with a 350 00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:29,640 Speaker 1: full erection like fully physic physiologically aroused. Uh, and had 351 00:19:29,680 --> 00:19:31,520 Speaker 1: to be a demon. It must be a demon. And 352 00:19:31,560 --> 00:19:34,640 Speaker 1: then of course in some cases there has been nocturnal emission, 353 00:19:34,640 --> 00:19:36,880 Speaker 1: there has been discharge, so it seems like some sort 354 00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:39,960 Speaker 1: of act has taken place, perhaps two. This is coupled 355 00:19:39,960 --> 00:19:43,359 Speaker 1: with dreams, so we have all sorts of of human 356 00:19:43,359 --> 00:19:45,800 Speaker 1: complexities that are layered on top of that that can 357 00:19:45,880 --> 00:19:48,880 Speaker 1: lead to some confusion. But but of course it's it's 358 00:19:48,920 --> 00:19:51,480 Speaker 1: none of these things. It's not the work of the devil, etcetera. 359 00:19:51,880 --> 00:19:54,800 Speaker 1: In fact, you know, a healthy male experiences up to 360 00:19:54,920 --> 00:19:57,720 Speaker 1: five I've seen as high as like, I've seen three 361 00:19:57,720 --> 00:20:00,399 Speaker 1: to six also as a figure, but to say five 362 00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:03,199 Speaker 1: or six of these a night as part of his 363 00:20:03,320 --> 00:20:07,080 Speaker 1: regular R E. M. Sleep. In fact, m pt s 364 00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:10,760 Speaker 1: are so normal that doctors test for them when diagnosing 365 00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:14,560 Speaker 1: erectile dysfunction because you know, think of it. If these 366 00:20:14,600 --> 00:20:17,600 Speaker 1: directions occur on their own during the night, then the 367 00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:23,920 Speaker 1: patient's waking problem is likely a psychological rather than physiological. Yeah, 368 00:20:23,960 --> 00:20:26,080 Speaker 1: that makes sense. Yeah, Now you might be wondering the 369 00:20:26,160 --> 00:20:29,720 Speaker 1: why do they why do they happen at all? Good question. Yeah, Well, 370 00:20:29,800 --> 00:20:33,600 Speaker 1: since they occur during the rim cycle, there's always the 371 00:20:33,640 --> 00:20:38,320 Speaker 1: potential for sexually charged dream tie in, but it's not necessary. 372 00:20:38,760 --> 00:20:41,280 Speaker 1: The main IMPT theories actually have nothing to do with 373 00:20:41,359 --> 00:20:44,919 Speaker 1: dreams at all. Rather that the body maybe oxygenating the 374 00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:47,320 Speaker 1: penile tissue as a sort and of a sort of 375 00:20:47,359 --> 00:20:50,440 Speaker 1: maintenance procedure, and the stimulant for this is thought to 376 00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:53,280 Speaker 1: be the release of nitric oxide by nerve fibers in 377 00:20:53,280 --> 00:20:56,000 Speaker 1: the penis. Oh, and then there's also the full bladder 378 00:20:56,119 --> 00:20:59,119 Speaker 1: bladder ankle as well. The two often occur together and 379 00:20:59,200 --> 00:21:01,440 Speaker 1: scientists have have taken note of this as well. So, 380 00:21:01,560 --> 00:21:03,679 Speaker 1: for instance, a mail will wake up in the morning 381 00:21:04,119 --> 00:21:06,560 Speaker 1: uh there is an erection and at the same time 382 00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:11,199 Speaker 1: they perhaps illogically it seems, need to urinate pretty badly 383 00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:15,960 Speaker 1: as well. So some theories view uh impt or morning 384 00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:18,639 Speaker 1: wood is the body's anti bed wedding is the one 385 00:21:18,640 --> 00:21:21,199 Speaker 1: of the body's anti bed wedding measures and perhaps a 386 00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:25,000 Speaker 1: wake up call to the sleeper himself. So this particular 387 00:21:25,040 --> 00:21:27,679 Speaker 1: study study with the stamps, it has to do with 388 00:21:27,880 --> 00:21:30,520 Speaker 1: mpt s role in figuring out what's going on with 389 00:21:30,560 --> 00:21:34,600 Speaker 1: erectile dysfunction, not with where the mail is, right, yeah, no, no, 390 00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:38,280 Speaker 1: the postage is not intended for mailing purposes because but 391 00:21:38,440 --> 00:21:41,560 Speaker 1: again think about it, aside from self reporting, how do 392 00:21:41,600 --> 00:21:44,080 Speaker 1: you figure out if a patient's if a patient has 393 00:21:44,119 --> 00:21:47,719 Speaker 1: experienced and erection during the night, Because so, I mean, 394 00:21:47,760 --> 00:21:49,280 Speaker 1: I guess you could like have them come into a 395 00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:51,560 Speaker 1: clinic overnight, right, right, Yeah, you could do some sort 396 00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:53,919 Speaker 1: of observation, but you know, there are a couple of 397 00:21:53,920 --> 00:21:56,280 Speaker 1: problems with that as costly you're having you're asking them 398 00:21:56,280 --> 00:21:59,200 Speaker 1: to sleep somewhere else, or you're I guess you could 399 00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:01,600 Speaker 1: say you're think about putting somebody in their room to 400 00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:04,639 Speaker 1: watch them sleep. These are just not good solutions, and 401 00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:08,480 Speaker 1: you're also disrupting their life. You're sort of disrupting the 402 00:22:08,560 --> 00:22:11,479 Speaker 1: like then their natural sleep cycles potentially by doing this. 403 00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:16,960 Speaker 1: So there have been a few different methods to figure 404 00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:20,360 Speaker 1: out what's going on with the penis steering sleep. One 405 00:22:20,440 --> 00:22:23,560 Speaker 1: MATHOD method that has been employed is ridges scan. So 406 00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:26,560 Speaker 1: this is a battery powered instrument that places one loop 407 00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:28,960 Speaker 1: around the base of the penis and the other at 408 00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:33,080 Speaker 1: the tip, and these loops tighten every fifteen, two or 409 00:22:33,160 --> 00:22:37,160 Speaker 1: thirty seconds. And the recording unit itself that is attached 410 00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:39,560 Speaker 1: to these two loops that straps to the wast to 411 00:22:39,960 --> 00:22:43,240 Speaker 1: the thigh, so it regularly tests to see how engorged 412 00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:47,760 Speaker 1: and rigid the member is throughout the night. Sounds cumbersome. 413 00:22:48,280 --> 00:22:50,639 Speaker 1: I don't want to, you know, cast maybe that's a 414 00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:52,600 Speaker 1: very useful device. Yeah, I looked at a picture of it. 415 00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:54,200 Speaker 1: I mean, it doesn't look that bad. It doesn't if 416 00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:57,720 Speaker 1: it sounds torturous, it does not look torturous. The other 417 00:22:57,760 --> 00:23:00,639 Speaker 1: method is this popular as the penal plethysmic graph. This 418 00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:04,439 Speaker 1: is a pulse volume recorder wired to a penile cuff 419 00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:10,399 Speaker 1: that measures blood flow. I know I've heard about things 420 00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:13,480 Speaker 1: like this being used in studies that are trying to 421 00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:16,840 Speaker 1: detect physiological signs of sexual arousal right, I believe this 422 00:23:16,920 --> 00:23:18,680 Speaker 1: is This one, for instance, comes up in silence of 423 00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:20,960 Speaker 1: the lambs. I believe it's like something that they would 424 00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:23,399 Speaker 1: put on someone and show them films of horrible things 425 00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:26,720 Speaker 1: and see if they're sexually aroused by them. Yeah. So 426 00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:29,880 Speaker 1: these methods, these two methods we discussed are are pretty accurate, 427 00:23:30,359 --> 00:23:33,840 Speaker 1: uh and and are generally considered more accurate I understand 428 00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:37,399 Speaker 1: than the stamps method. But back in the researchers in 429 00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:42,159 Speaker 1: question uh presented the Stamp method uh quote. A Stamp 430 00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:45,800 Speaker 1: technique was developed to detect complete nocturnal erections for the 431 00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:50,800 Speaker 1: evaluation of impotence. The test correctly detected complete nocturnal erections 432 00:23:50,840 --> 00:23:55,000 Speaker 1: in twenty two potent men and absence of complete nocturnal 433 00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:58,320 Speaker 1: erections in eleven impotent men. This is a simple, useful 434 00:23:58,359 --> 00:24:02,280 Speaker 1: screening test for organic impotence. So the idea here is 435 00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:05,679 Speaker 1: fairly simple. You take a ring of postage stamps, so 436 00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:07,680 Speaker 1: they haven't been separated, and you know they have the 437 00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:10,880 Speaker 1: perforated edges, you know, so they pop apart easily. So 438 00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:13,720 Speaker 1: you take this this ring of stamps and you fix 439 00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:18,080 Speaker 1: them around the penis uh in its non erect uh 440 00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:21,640 Speaker 1: nin gorged state, and then the individual goes to sleep. 441 00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:23,359 Speaker 1: The subject goes to sleep. In the next morning, they 442 00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:26,720 Speaker 1: check for breakage if the stamps, If that ring of 443 00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:29,920 Speaker 1: stamps has broken, and again it should ideally break easily 444 00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:32,560 Speaker 1: because of the perforations uh, this will be a sign 445 00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:36,320 Speaker 1: that an erection has occurred. And this has some key advantages. Right, 446 00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:39,080 Speaker 1: it's a low cost. Just the cost of postage. Basically, 447 00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:42,160 Speaker 1: the cost of postage goes way up. Right, it's gonna 448 00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:44,800 Speaker 1: there's gonna be a regional determined and determined they're also 449 00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:48,359 Speaker 1: you know, don't don't buy rare stamps just by the 450 00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:51,119 Speaker 1: forever stamps. I guess somebody doing it with like the 451 00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:54,960 Speaker 1: thousands of dollars of stamp collector stamps. Yeah, exactly, Yeah, 452 00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:57,400 Speaker 1: don't use this, but yeah, it's low cost. You can 453 00:24:57,440 --> 00:25:00,400 Speaker 1: and also can be self administered with ease. You don't 454 00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:02,440 Speaker 1: even you don't even necessarily have to have a doctor 455 00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:04,760 Speaker 1: involved there, right, so that's part of the appeal. Doesn't 456 00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:07,800 Speaker 1: sound too dangerous, No, yeah, it's going to break apart 457 00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:10,640 Speaker 1: the stamps is so you don't have to worry about 458 00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:14,200 Speaker 1: like constriction so much. The only real risk, of course, 459 00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:18,760 Speaker 1: is accidentally mailing the penis. But that's a joke. Now. 460 00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:22,600 Speaker 1: Some studies have backed up the effectiveness of this particular method. 461 00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:27,199 Speaker 1: Paper titled Nocturnal penal too essence Monitoring with stamps in 462 00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:30,919 Speaker 1: Impotent Diabetics found that quote, the diagnostic value of this 463 00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:34,080 Speaker 1: method is nearly the same as that of MPT recording 464 00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:38,359 Speaker 1: with a strain gauge, and that's from diabetics research and 465 00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:43,359 Speaker 1: clinical practice. However, the problem with the stamp method is 466 00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:45,879 Speaker 1: that there's always the chance that shifting around in one 467 00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:50,119 Speaker 1: sleep will simply tear the perforated edges. There's a strip 468 00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:53,240 Speaker 1: of tear the stamps without an erection taking place at all, 469 00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:56,080 Speaker 1: and that would give you a false positive, a type 470 00:25:56,080 --> 00:25:58,600 Speaker 1: one error, right, and then it's yeah, But then the 471 00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:01,159 Speaker 1: problem there is is if you're trying to treat some 472 00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:04,480 Speaker 1: sort of uh um, you know, impotent scenario, then you 473 00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:07,520 Speaker 1: start treating as if it's psychological when it's really a 474 00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:12,800 Speaker 1: physiological ailment, So that's the risk. So why is this important, Well, 475 00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:16,919 Speaker 1: because erectile dysfunction is legitimate medical concern, and it's funny 476 00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:19,520 Speaker 1: because it involves a penis in mourning wood, and these 477 00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:23,679 Speaker 1: are inherently funny tens and stamps like stamps and penis. Uh, 478 00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:26,440 Speaker 1: it's really I mean, in retrospect, it's kind of surprising 479 00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:31,040 Speaker 1: it took the ignal Bells this long to honor these researchers. Well, Robert, 480 00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:33,399 Speaker 1: that one made me laugh and even sort of a 481 00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:35,400 Speaker 1: little bit made me think. It's good to think about. 482 00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:39,760 Speaker 1: You know, what are the what are the maybe not 483 00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:45,320 Speaker 1: as perfectly effective, but cost effective, safe things people can 484 00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:50,119 Speaker 1: do to substitute for expensive medical tests. Obviously, sometimes you're 485 00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:53,800 Speaker 1: going to value accuracy over you know, cost effectiveness and 486 00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:55,600 Speaker 1: stuff like that. But with with some of these things, 487 00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:57,760 Speaker 1: you know, it seems like it's worth doing a cheap 488 00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:00,320 Speaker 1: test before you spring for the expensive test. Yeah, it 489 00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:02,120 Speaker 1: makes sense to me. I should add that I also 490 00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:05,040 Speaker 1: saw a criticism of the stamp test, being that we're 491 00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:09,000 Speaker 1: entering an age where there people have decreased access to 492 00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:13,280 Speaker 1: traditional stamps, and so that could be a potential problem. 493 00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:15,520 Speaker 1: The doctor says you need to get some stamps for 494 00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:18,840 Speaker 1: your penis. And then your response is what are stamps? 495 00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:23,640 Speaker 1: Couldn't the urologist to just have medical stamps? Like they 496 00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:27,159 Speaker 1: could have stamps that you value at all? Or I 497 00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:29,320 Speaker 1: guess it probably probably be over the counter. Would they 498 00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:31,640 Speaker 1: need to keep that behind the counter yet? But then 499 00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:34,560 Speaker 1: what about the embarrassment when you accidentally try and mail 500 00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:37,800 Speaker 1: um something? You start mailing your Christmas cards and the 501 00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:41,280 Speaker 1: medical stamps my medical penis stamps? Do they say penis 502 00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:45,480 Speaker 1: stamps on them? Like? That's totally warning? Medical penis stamp, 503 00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:49,159 Speaker 1: no postage value? Oh, I think we need to go 504 00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:51,720 Speaker 1: to another one. Okay, let's move on. Okay, I want 505 00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:53,400 Speaker 1: to do one that we can look at pretty quick. 506 00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:57,360 Speaker 1: Uh quick question, Robert, do you read the user manual 507 00:27:57,440 --> 00:27:59,640 Speaker 1: when you buy a thing and it comes with a manual? 508 00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:02,320 Speaker 1: I guess it depends on the thing. It also depends 509 00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:05,439 Speaker 1: on how excited about the thing I am, versus like 510 00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:08,720 Speaker 1: how much just pure drudgery is the thing? Does being 511 00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:10,840 Speaker 1: excited to make you more or less likely to read 512 00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:13,159 Speaker 1: the manual? If I'm more excited, then I'll probably be 513 00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:15,280 Speaker 1: more likely to read than the manual because I want 514 00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:17,440 Speaker 1: to know how it works. It's like, it's the thing's 515 00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:21,080 Speaker 1: functionality is uh, you know, I want to be it 516 00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:23,080 Speaker 1: to be a part of me. Where if it's something 517 00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:26,399 Speaker 1: like a refrigerator, like I know how refrigerator works, and 518 00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:28,520 Speaker 1: I really I don't want any more details. They just 519 00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:31,000 Speaker 1: wanted to work, that's all I ask. Do you read 520 00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:33,359 Speaker 1: the owner's manual when you get a new car, like 521 00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:38,080 Speaker 1: Arnold Schwartzeningger and Twins. Did he do that? Yeah, he's like, Uh. 522 00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:39,800 Speaker 1: There's a scene where they're riding around in a car 523 00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:42,440 Speaker 1: and Arnold Schwarzenegger is reading through some book and he's 524 00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:44,520 Speaker 1: and Danny de Vito asked him what he's doing, and 525 00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:49,720 Speaker 1: he's like, I'm learning to drive. Um, it's been a 526 00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:51,640 Speaker 1: long time since I've seen that. I might not be 527 00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:54,840 Speaker 1: remembering correctly, but I think that's pretty dead on. Uh No, 528 00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:57,160 Speaker 1: A lot of times I don't read the manual either. 529 00:28:57,200 --> 00:28:59,600 Speaker 1: I especially love it when there are manuals for things 530 00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:02,400 Speaker 1: like the refrigerator that you just don't need a manual for. 531 00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:05,360 Speaker 1: It's like, if you don't automatically know how to use 532 00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:08,720 Speaker 1: this thing, you're in trouble, right, And I'm not authorized 533 00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:11,760 Speaker 1: to fix most things, and and it is. If it 534 00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:14,480 Speaker 1: is something I can fix, then yes, maybe I'll pop 535 00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:16,600 Speaker 1: up in the manual if I know where the manual is. 536 00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:19,520 Speaker 1: User manuals are sometimes worth looking at just to see 537 00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:24,200 Speaker 1: if there's any hilarious bad writing or bad translation. Yeah, 538 00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:26,080 Speaker 1: that can be fun, you know. Actually, I will take 539 00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:29,520 Speaker 1: one thing back. One item that I did read the 540 00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:35,080 Speaker 1: entire user manual for was the insta. Oh I've got 541 00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:37,360 Speaker 1: one of those. That's great free plug. They did not 542 00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:39,600 Speaker 1: pay us for this. Yeah, I love it. It helps me. 543 00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:42,000 Speaker 1: It's as you mostly use it as like a rice 544 00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:45,480 Speaker 1: and bean cooker, but it was one of these devices. 545 00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:46,640 Speaker 1: When I got it, I was like, all right, I 546 00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:48,760 Speaker 1: have no idea how this works. I need to know 547 00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:50,560 Speaker 1: how this works. I guess I'm gonna read the user 548 00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:52,600 Speaker 1: manual and uh, and then I was good to go. 549 00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:55,240 Speaker 1: I know you all don't often meet at home, but 550 00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:57,600 Speaker 1: if you're ever making like a like a you know, 551 00:29:57,720 --> 00:30:00,440 Speaker 1: tough pork or beef dish or something like that is 552 00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:05,160 Speaker 1: just fantastic heart, human heart that you need to tenderize. 553 00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:07,360 Speaker 1: Real good. It's it's great for that. It's really good 554 00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:11,520 Speaker 1: for lentil dishes. It's the lentils, real nice and like 555 00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:14,440 Speaker 1: they keep their their texture and and shape, but they 556 00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:16,920 Speaker 1: get tender. It's great. Yeah, yeah, we've definitely used it 557 00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:19,680 Speaker 1: on some lentils. Okay, okay, but we're getting distracted. Just 558 00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:25,840 Speaker 1: gushion about our pots. The Literature Prize of the lfls 559 00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:31,520 Speaker 1: IS was given to THEA. Blackler, Raphael Gomez, Vestna Popovic, 560 00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:34,960 Speaker 1: and m Helen Thompson quote for documenting that most people 561 00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:38,360 Speaker 1: who use complicated products do not read the instruction manual. 562 00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:41,080 Speaker 1: And this was a paper called Life's Too Short to 563 00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:44,680 Speaker 1: r t f M. I think that's read the field manual, 564 00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:49,600 Speaker 1: that not another F modifier. How users relate to documentation 565 00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:53,880 Speaker 1: and excess features in consumer products. So this study investigated 566 00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:57,680 Speaker 1: people's relationship with two aspects of consumer products, number of 567 00:30:57,680 --> 00:31:02,560 Speaker 1: features in an interface and product documentation the manual. So 568 00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:04,760 Speaker 1: the authors did two sets of studies to look at 569 00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:08,200 Speaker 1: the manuals and the excess features in common household products 570 00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:11,240 Speaker 1: and they're right quote. The quantitative set was a series 571 00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:13,960 Speaker 1: of questionnaires administered to a hundred and seventy people over 572 00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:17,840 Speaker 1: seven years. The qualitative set consisted of two six month 573 00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:21,760 Speaker 1: longitudinal studies based on diaries and interviews, with a total 574 00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:24,520 Speaker 1: of fifteen participants, and here's what they found. First of all, 575 00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:27,560 Speaker 1: most people don't read the manual, and most people do 576 00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:29,800 Speaker 1: not use all the features on the products they have. 577 00:31:29,960 --> 00:31:32,960 Speaker 1: Quote people claim to read the manual and use all 578 00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:35,800 Speaker 1: of the features of many common domestic and personal products 579 00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:38,760 Speaker 1: only twenty percent of the time. I have to add 580 00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:42,320 Speaker 1: that clearly. One of the reasons that this study was 581 00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:44,480 Speaker 1: was honored is that it it does something that the 582 00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:48,160 Speaker 1: ignoble prizes frequently like it it it points out something 583 00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:52,520 Speaker 1: that is blatantly obvious and backs it up with scientific rigor. 584 00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:55,720 Speaker 1: You know, I actually like studies like that. People react 585 00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:59,480 Speaker 1: on social media when there's like a study that shows 586 00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:03,880 Speaker 1: to wrecked evidence of something that should seem obvious, and 587 00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:06,440 Speaker 1: then people respond like, oh, why do you have to 588 00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:09,680 Speaker 1: do a study on that that's obvious? No, it's I 589 00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:12,440 Speaker 1: mean all the time we have beliefs about things that 590 00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:15,840 Speaker 1: seem obvious, but they're in fact not true. Tons of 591 00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:19,000 Speaker 1: things that you think are obvious are false. And when 592 00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:21,560 Speaker 1: a study shows you that something you think is obvious 593 00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:26,480 Speaker 1: is actually backed up by evidence, that's valuable information. So anyway, 594 00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:29,600 Speaker 1: rant end on that. But so, but this this one 595 00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:32,760 Speaker 1: might be less less life and death than some of 596 00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:34,600 Speaker 1: these things that people think are obvious. But I do 597 00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:38,120 Speaker 1: think it's kind of interesting about a relationship with our products. Okay, 598 00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:41,240 Speaker 1: so here's another question. Most people don't read the manual 599 00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:44,240 Speaker 1: and don't use all of the features on complicated products. 600 00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:46,680 Speaker 1: But who actually does read the manual? Who's more and 601 00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:50,320 Speaker 1: less likely in terms of like the demographics. Turns out 602 00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:53,320 Speaker 1: women are less likely than men to read the manual 603 00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:57,320 Speaker 1: and use all the features. Uh. Young people are less 604 00:32:57,360 --> 00:33:00,200 Speaker 1: likely than middle aged and older people to read the 605 00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:03,640 Speaker 1: manual and use all the features, and more educated people 606 00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:07,440 Speaker 1: are less likely to read the manual. Ok So, I 607 00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:10,840 Speaker 1: don't know if these If these groups actually compound on 608 00:33:10,920 --> 00:33:13,560 Speaker 1: top of each other, I'm not sure whether that's the case, 609 00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:16,920 Speaker 1: but if they do, you would say, statistically, the person 610 00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:20,959 Speaker 1: most likely to read the manual is like a lower education, 611 00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:24,920 Speaker 1: older male, and statistically the person least likely to read 612 00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:29,600 Speaker 1: the manual is a higher education, younger woman. Also, people 613 00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:34,200 Speaker 1: do not like excess features on a product interface. Uh So, 614 00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:38,000 Speaker 1: excess features, they say, quote, are associated with negative affect, 615 00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:41,680 Speaker 1: whereas core features are associated with positive affect. Again, this 616 00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:44,520 Speaker 1: might be kind of obvious, but people don't really like 617 00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:46,880 Speaker 1: all the bells and whistles. They like a product to 618 00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:49,200 Speaker 1: be good at the main thing it's supposed to do. 619 00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:52,520 Speaker 1: So I wonder how most people feel about those food 620 00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:57,080 Speaker 1: specific buttons on microwaves. Like those things well whatever the 621 00:33:57,080 --> 00:33:58,880 Speaker 1: other The popcorn is the only one I've ever attempted 622 00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:01,120 Speaker 1: to use, and I usually and I have only used 623 00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:04,160 Speaker 1: it like once, and I burned popcorn. Yeah, so I 624 00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:07,320 Speaker 1: just I just do my own thing. I could not 625 00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:10,560 Speaker 1: tell you what the those buttons on my microwave say, 626 00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:12,880 Speaker 1: Like there could be one that says human flesh, and 627 00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:15,160 Speaker 1: there could be another one that says, like, I don't know, 628 00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:18,239 Speaker 1: a bucket full of lollipops, and I wouldn't know. I 629 00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:20,600 Speaker 1: didn't looked at them. I didn't figure out how the 630 00:34:20,640 --> 00:34:23,840 Speaker 1: power percentage on my microwave worked until like the last 631 00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:28,919 Speaker 1: year or two. Yeah, but then I started noticing, oh wait, 632 00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:33,240 Speaker 1: this actually, this particular microwave dish requires that I use power. 633 00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:34,640 Speaker 1: How do I do that? And then I have to 634 00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:36,880 Speaker 1: figure it out. But I never looked at the manual. 635 00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:39,279 Speaker 1: I stuck to my guns on that one. So you 636 00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:43,400 Speaker 1: actually follow instructions on microwavable meals. You don't just press 637 00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:45,400 Speaker 1: six six six like a lot of people do. I 638 00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:47,399 Speaker 1: didn't know if people did that, and some sometimes people 639 00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:49,880 Speaker 1: do that. I mean, that's as solid, solid choice, good number, 640 00:34:50,080 --> 00:34:55,040 Speaker 1: steady tradition in my family. Um No, I think it 641 00:34:55,200 --> 00:34:57,560 Speaker 1: usually comes out better if you follow the instructions. That's 642 00:34:57,600 --> 00:35:01,880 Speaker 1: kind of like reading the manual. Also, people hate having 643 00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:04,960 Speaker 1: to consult the manual to figure out how to use something. 644 00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:08,800 Speaker 1: Quote reading of manuals appears to cause annoyance and negative 645 00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:13,440 Speaker 1: emotional experiences unquote. On average, people just want their products 646 00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:15,880 Speaker 1: to be self explanatory. They do not want to have 647 00:35:15,960 --> 00:35:18,040 Speaker 1: to read all that stuff and deal with a bunch 648 00:35:18,040 --> 00:35:20,799 Speaker 1: of extra features and settings. They want stuff to be 649 00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:23,600 Speaker 1: easy and intuitive, and they don't want to read manuals. 650 00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:26,840 Speaker 1: So I wonder what companies should learn from this, Like 651 00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:28,560 Speaker 1: is there something Is there a lesson here for the 652 00:35:28,600 --> 00:35:32,080 Speaker 1: creation of manuals or the or the creation of of 653 00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:36,360 Speaker 1: alternative materials regarding the use of their products. That's a 654 00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:40,239 Speaker 1: good question. Um. I mean, generally, I think it should 655 00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:43,640 Speaker 1: be the case that if it's possible for you to 656 00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:47,560 Speaker 1: make an interface a product interface self evident, like it 657 00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:50,279 Speaker 1: should just be obvious how the product works and how 658 00:35:50,280 --> 00:35:52,480 Speaker 1: you're supposed to use it. You should do that. Now, 659 00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:55,000 Speaker 1: obviously you can't always do that. They're gonna be lots 660 00:35:55,040 --> 00:35:58,839 Speaker 1: of kinds of features of products that are more complicated. 661 00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:02,680 Speaker 1: They can't just be totally obvious on the interface. Uh So, 662 00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:04,520 Speaker 1: in that case, I don't know what you're supposed to do. 663 00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:08,280 Speaker 1: Maybe you're just going to have people being frustrated. Maybe 664 00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:12,440 Speaker 1: the idea is that all products should contain sort of 665 00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:16,160 Speaker 1: to whatever extint possible kind of walk through features, right 666 00:36:16,520 --> 00:36:18,160 Speaker 1: like they don't. You don't have to go look at 667 00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:20,400 Speaker 1: the manual. It just asks you what you want to 668 00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:23,040 Speaker 1: do and helps you do it. I walk through, but 669 00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:25,279 Speaker 1: who wants to do that? No, that's like, that's really 670 00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:27,240 Speaker 1: annoying to I don't want to do like a robotic 671 00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:29,279 Speaker 1: walk through with my new microwave. I just want to 672 00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:31,919 Speaker 1: use it when I have to write, Yeah, I don't 673 00:36:31,960 --> 00:36:34,360 Speaker 1: know what to do. But do you want to burn popcorn? 674 00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:38,480 Speaker 1: We're doing it either way exactly. All right, Well, on 675 00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:42,120 Speaker 1: that note, let's move on to our next award winning study. 676 00:36:42,320 --> 00:36:46,520 Speaker 1: Let's let's talk peace. Okay. This is theeen Ignoble Peace 677 00:36:46,560 --> 00:36:52,360 Speaker 1: Prize was awarded to Francisco Alonso, Christina Esteban, Andrea Serge 678 00:36:52,719 --> 00:36:59,480 Speaker 1: Maria Luisa Balistar, him Ace San Martin, Constanza Cataloud, Beatriz 679 00:36:59,520 --> 00:37:03,760 Speaker 1: Alama are Oh and Beatriz Lamar for measuring the frequency, motivation, 680 00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:06,520 Speaker 1: and effects of shouting and cursing while driving an automot 681 00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:09,399 Speaker 1: UH and there are a couple of references here, one 682 00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:14,080 Speaker 1: of the Journal of Sociology and Anthropology from UH. Francisco 683 00:37:14,120 --> 00:37:17,200 Speaker 1: Alonso attended the ceremony, but the author's right that quote. 684 00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:20,840 Speaker 1: Evidence has shown that drivers who usually express aggressive behaviors 685 00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:23,320 Speaker 1: more frequently tend at the same time to have higher 686 00:37:23,440 --> 00:37:26,759 Speaker 1: rates of road crashes or traffic incidents. And so the 687 00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:30,280 Speaker 1: situations in which aggressive behaviors arise tend to be very common, 688 00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:34,160 Speaker 1: meaning that driver aggression is potentially a major traffic safety issue. 689 00:37:34,600 --> 00:37:37,360 Speaker 1: And the authors administered a number of survey questions to 690 00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:40,120 Speaker 1: Spanish drivers over the age of fourteen to figure out 691 00:37:40,160 --> 00:37:45,160 Speaker 1: their perceptions and attitudes about aggressive driving behaviors like shouting 692 00:37:45,400 --> 00:37:49,160 Speaker 1: and insulting behind the wheel. And so I found a 693 00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:51,600 Speaker 1: long form version of this. That I don't know is 694 00:37:51,719 --> 00:37:54,200 Speaker 1: that it seems like the long form version I found 695 00:37:54,760 --> 00:37:57,640 Speaker 1: is not the study itself, but is a summary that 696 00:37:57,760 --> 00:38:01,080 Speaker 1: was published after the prize was awarded. Because it's got 697 00:38:01,120 --> 00:38:05,200 Speaker 1: some really funny uh statements in the conclusions, such as, 698 00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:08,160 Speaker 1: let us also remember that people who use cars to 699 00:38:08,239 --> 00:38:10,880 Speaker 1: make love as well, which is clearly better than eventually 700 00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:15,080 Speaker 1: using them to get get us killed. Uh. And also, 701 00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:17,800 Speaker 1: as it happens with these prizes, we need to support 702 00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:22,040 Speaker 1: laughters because they are not compatible with certain negative emotional states, 703 00:38:22,080 --> 00:38:24,680 Speaker 1: and for sure they will lead us to peace. Well, 704 00:38:24,680 --> 00:38:26,720 Speaker 1: that's a nice sentiment. Just to look at the data 705 00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:29,200 Speaker 1: real quickly that they come up with. They say that 706 00:38:29,239 --> 00:38:32,480 Speaker 1: about twenty six point four percent of people of drivers 707 00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:36,160 Speaker 1: admit that they sometimes insult other drivers or shout while 708 00:38:36,239 --> 00:38:40,160 Speaker 1: driving forty one point six percent, So they never do it. 709 00:38:40,719 --> 00:38:45,640 Speaker 1: I don't know. I almost never do it, but sometimes 710 00:38:45,640 --> 00:38:47,440 Speaker 1: they really get to you. It's a real struggle for me, 711 00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:49,960 Speaker 1: especially when I'm in the car driving the boy around. 712 00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:54,480 Speaker 1: And uh, I'm really good at watching my language the 713 00:38:54,480 --> 00:38:56,759 Speaker 1: rest of the time, I think, but when him in 714 00:38:56,760 --> 00:38:59,440 Speaker 1: the car, it's a little harder. Luckily he mishears me. 715 00:38:59,719 --> 00:39:03,400 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, um, for a while he was convinced. Hopefully 716 00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:05,960 Speaker 1: he's still convinced that I sometimes refer to other drivers 717 00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:09,799 Speaker 1: as funky's uh, and I should really try to do 718 00:39:09,880 --> 00:39:12,120 Speaker 1: that instead of what I am saying that that's a 719 00:39:12,160 --> 00:39:15,040 Speaker 1: good one. Funkies, you know it's just funky driving. Yeah. 720 00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:19,360 Speaker 1: Uh quick. Look also at the data about a reasons 721 00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:24,160 Speaker 1: people self reported to initiate some shouting or insulting other drivers. 722 00:39:24,480 --> 00:39:28,200 Speaker 1: Top one with twenty two point five percent was reaction 723 00:39:28,280 --> 00:39:30,879 Speaker 1: to breaking a rule, So when somebody else breaks a road, 724 00:39:31,080 --> 00:39:33,560 Speaker 1: that's when you will shake my finger at them. Yes. 725 00:39:34,560 --> 00:39:39,399 Speaker 1: Also next at twenty one four percent, reaction to dangerous maneuvers, 726 00:39:39,440 --> 00:39:43,399 Speaker 1: so when other people behave recklessly. Uh. Then below that 727 00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:46,440 Speaker 1: at thirteen point six percent, the other driver puts me 728 00:39:46,480 --> 00:39:50,320 Speaker 1: in danger. Also at thirteen point six percent, just stress, 729 00:39:50,840 --> 00:39:54,120 Speaker 1: you know, stress. But that's that's people being self conscious 730 00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:56,440 Speaker 1: right there, they're admitting, yes, stress probably just makes me 731 00:39:56,480 --> 00:39:59,759 Speaker 1: do it. Other reasons are below that. Uh. And then 732 00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:03,560 Speaker 1: finally one point three percent of people say they do 733 00:40:03,640 --> 00:40:08,200 Speaker 1: it because quote everybody does it. Now something that's not 734 00:40:08,280 --> 00:40:10,480 Speaker 1: reflecting this study. I just want to throw in. I 735 00:40:10,680 --> 00:40:15,440 Speaker 1: recently watched The ice Cream Manes horror film starring Clint Howard, 736 00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:19,520 Speaker 1: and Clint Howard apparently drove around yelling in his car 737 00:40:19,800 --> 00:40:22,279 Speaker 1: in order to get his voice nice and raspy for 738 00:40:22,360 --> 00:40:25,160 Speaker 1: the role so it's possible that that person you think 739 00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:28,040 Speaker 1: is driving angry, it's just Clint Howard preparing for a 740 00:40:28,120 --> 00:40:30,640 Speaker 1: leading role method acting. Yeah, all right, we need to 741 00:40:30,640 --> 00:40:32,399 Speaker 1: take a quick break, but we will be right back 742 00:40:32,440 --> 00:40:38,200 Speaker 1: with more ignobles. Thank alright, we're back. Well, Robert, is 743 00:40:38,239 --> 00:40:40,799 Speaker 1: it time for the Economics Prize? It is, which you know, 744 00:40:40,880 --> 00:40:43,759 Speaker 1: the Economics Prize. It might not sound exciting, but this 745 00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:45,600 Speaker 1: is a pretty good one. It's often one of the 746 00:40:45,600 --> 00:40:49,760 Speaker 1: funniest ones. Yeah, because I think it's because it plays 747 00:40:49,800 --> 00:40:53,480 Speaker 1: well with humor. Because you think Economics Prize, you think, uh, 748 00:40:53,920 --> 00:40:57,840 Speaker 1: something dry and stuffy and uh And in most cases 749 00:40:57,880 --> 00:41:00,200 Speaker 1: they'll find something that has an instant does that as 750 00:41:00,239 --> 00:41:02,160 Speaker 1: in this case, the pozzas comes in the form of 751 00:41:02,239 --> 00:41:06,560 Speaker 1: voodoo dolls. Nice. Uh so the uh, the the particular 752 00:41:06,600 --> 00:41:09,960 Speaker 1: paper here this honored is titled writing a wrong Retaliation 753 00:41:10,040 --> 00:41:14,200 Speaker 1: on a Voodoo Doll symbolizing an abusive supervisor Restores Justice 754 00:41:15,040 --> 00:41:17,719 Speaker 1: And this was by Laying at All published in the 755 00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:22,200 Speaker 1: Leadership Quarterly February. Do you think this study was funded 756 00:41:22,200 --> 00:41:24,719 Speaker 1: by big voodoo? No, and I'll get to that in 757 00:41:24,719 --> 00:41:27,839 Speaker 1: a minute. Really, really that there's virtually no voodoo in 758 00:41:27,880 --> 00:41:30,960 Speaker 1: any of this, there's a sort of a metaphorical voodoo doll. 759 00:41:31,200 --> 00:41:35,080 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, there. There's no Afro American religion or folklore 760 00:41:35,160 --> 00:41:38,440 Speaker 1: in this particular study at all, but it does a 761 00:41:38,440 --> 00:41:41,279 Speaker 1: center around a reality that a lot of us have 762 00:41:41,600 --> 00:41:44,759 Speaker 1: been forced to face over the years, unfortunately, and that 763 00:41:44,880 --> 00:41:52,120 Speaker 1: is abusive supervisor figures. Terrible bosses, mean bosses, They exist, 764 00:41:52,239 --> 00:41:55,000 Speaker 1: they do. I've been I've been lucky. I haven't had 765 00:41:55,160 --> 00:41:59,239 Speaker 1: an abusive boss at least in a long time, but 766 00:41:59,560 --> 00:42:02,040 Speaker 1: I I did have one briefly at one point. I 767 00:42:02,080 --> 00:42:05,879 Speaker 1: remember it being pretty horrible to work under them. What 768 00:42:05,880 --> 00:42:09,000 Speaker 1: what is counting as an abusive supervisor here? Is this 769 00:42:09,160 --> 00:42:12,839 Speaker 1: like like really egregious abuses or just like being a jerk? Well, 770 00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:15,200 Speaker 1: it can cover a wide variety of things. Uh. It 771 00:42:15,239 --> 00:42:18,160 Speaker 1: could be punching holes in walls. It could be Um, 772 00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:21,879 Speaker 1: it could be just yelling at at subordinates that sort 773 00:42:21,880 --> 00:42:26,360 Speaker 1: of thing. Their whole host of behaviors that fall under 774 00:42:26,360 --> 00:42:29,759 Speaker 1: this umbrella. Uh. And whether you're dealing with big, big 775 00:42:29,760 --> 00:42:31,920 Speaker 1: ones or supposedly little ones, I mean, it all can 776 00:42:31,960 --> 00:42:35,000 Speaker 1: add up. It can all make make ones a work 777 00:42:35,080 --> 00:42:38,759 Speaker 1: life rather dismal. And then what are you gonna do? Right? 778 00:42:39,840 --> 00:42:42,440 Speaker 1: Hopefully you're gonna there's gonna be a system in place 779 00:42:42,520 --> 00:42:45,920 Speaker 1: like via HR to report such individuals. But as the 780 00:42:45,920 --> 00:42:48,879 Speaker 1: authors of this twenty team paper point out, there may 781 00:42:48,920 --> 00:42:53,080 Speaker 1: be attempt at temptation for reprisal in other words, to 782 00:42:53,320 --> 00:42:59,200 Speaker 1: get revenge in some sense at the boss or superior 783 00:42:59,560 --> 00:43:02,879 Speaker 1: that is, uh, that is being horrible, but sort of 784 00:43:03,000 --> 00:43:06,359 Speaker 1: by the dynamics of the workplace, you can't really do that, right, 785 00:43:06,400 --> 00:43:09,160 Speaker 1: at least not in any kind of legitimate way, right, 786 00:43:09,440 --> 00:43:11,640 Speaker 1: I mean, And that's something that they point out time 787 00:43:11,640 --> 00:43:15,400 Speaker 1: and time again, like they're they're not saying that reprisals 788 00:43:15,400 --> 00:43:18,960 Speaker 1: are good. Reprisals are bad. Reprisals only just add more 789 00:43:19,080 --> 00:43:23,560 Speaker 1: chaos to the workplace environment and cost the company money, etcetera. 790 00:43:24,200 --> 00:43:26,759 Speaker 1: But here's one of the things they had to say 791 00:43:26,760 --> 00:43:30,000 Speaker 1: in the study quote, when a subordinate receives abusive treatment 792 00:43:30,040 --> 00:43:34,240 Speaker 1: from a supervisor, a natural response is to retaliate against 793 00:43:34,280 --> 00:43:38,600 Speaker 1: the supervisor. Although retaliation is dysfunctional and should be discouraged, 794 00:43:38,640 --> 00:43:42,239 Speaker 1: we examine the potential functional role retaliation plays in terms 795 00:43:42,480 --> 00:43:47,319 Speaker 1: of alleviating the negative consequences of abusive supervision or subordinate 796 00:43:47,400 --> 00:43:52,520 Speaker 1: justice perceptions. So, yeah, basically, the idea is, if you're 797 00:43:52,600 --> 00:43:56,640 Speaker 1: pushed down by a terrible boss, there is going to 798 00:43:56,680 --> 00:44:01,279 Speaker 1: be this natural incline, a shin to push back in 799 00:44:01,360 --> 00:44:03,759 Speaker 1: some way. Right, So is there some way you can 800 00:44:03,800 --> 00:44:07,399 Speaker 1: do that without making things worse for yourself and others? Right? Yeah? 801 00:44:07,400 --> 00:44:09,160 Speaker 1: Because I think a lot of times it is about that, 802 00:44:09,239 --> 00:44:11,520 Speaker 1: Like what would feel good right now? Like nothing would 803 00:44:11,520 --> 00:44:14,719 Speaker 1: feel better than to destroy the boss's bobble head? You know. 804 00:44:15,560 --> 00:44:17,680 Speaker 1: But as fun as it might look on the the 805 00:44:17,760 --> 00:44:21,280 Speaker 1: office or some other television show or film, uh, it's 806 00:44:21,320 --> 00:44:25,959 Speaker 1: it's not really necessarily a good move in the long run. Still, 807 00:44:26,080 --> 00:44:29,840 Speaker 1: aggression against such supervisors is common as high as seventy 808 00:44:29,880 --> 00:44:34,360 Speaker 1: six according to a sited study in this paper, and 809 00:44:34,440 --> 00:44:37,840 Speaker 1: this is seemingly on par with aggressions towards co workers 810 00:44:37,840 --> 00:44:41,799 Speaker 1: as well, if not more prevalent. The authors point out 811 00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:45,080 Speaker 1: that the prevalence of retaliation suggests that retaliation may play 812 00:44:45,160 --> 00:44:48,520 Speaker 1: functional role in dealing with abuse, and there are various 813 00:44:48,560 --> 00:44:51,560 Speaker 1: theories as to why an adaptive response a way of 814 00:44:51,640 --> 00:44:55,879 Speaker 1: rebalancing the relationship, etcetera. So it could be I mean, 815 00:44:56,480 --> 00:44:58,799 Speaker 1: not to put thoughts in everyone's head, I guess on 816 00:44:58,880 --> 00:45:01,440 Speaker 1: this matter, but it could be as simple as okay 817 00:45:01,719 --> 00:45:04,680 Speaker 1: an otherwise okay, boss like raises their voice at you. 818 00:45:04,680 --> 00:45:07,360 Speaker 1: You feel a little hurt. Their bubble head takes a 819 00:45:07,360 --> 00:45:09,399 Speaker 1: little dive off the side of their table. You can 820 00:45:09,480 --> 00:45:11,879 Speaker 1: universe is restored, you know, because you're like, all right, 821 00:45:11,920 --> 00:45:13,719 Speaker 1: you yelled at me and I didn't really like that. 822 00:45:13,800 --> 00:45:16,680 Speaker 1: But the bubble head is dead now and you could 823 00:45:16,719 --> 00:45:19,799 Speaker 1: see that. It's like, okay, things are equal. How are 824 00:45:19,800 --> 00:45:22,479 Speaker 1: they really equal? Well, that depends on all the other 825 00:45:22,520 --> 00:45:26,320 Speaker 1: aspects of the the the office dynamics. So the authors 826 00:45:26,320 --> 00:45:29,960 Speaker 1: here they lay out a functional theory of retaliation, whereby 827 00:45:30,040 --> 00:45:34,520 Speaker 1: engaging in retaliation reaffirms one sense of justice and supervisor 828 00:45:34,560 --> 00:45:39,400 Speaker 1: abuse is the external stressor that violates one's expectations of 829 00:45:39,440 --> 00:45:42,439 Speaker 1: fair treatment. So to test this out, they made use 830 00:45:42,520 --> 00:45:46,799 Speaker 1: of an online voodoo doll representing an abuse of supervisor 831 00:45:47,120 --> 00:45:49,640 Speaker 1: and specifically in the wording of the paper. Uh, they 832 00:45:49,760 --> 00:45:52,279 Speaker 1: use what they would call a voodoo doll task or 833 00:45:52,400 --> 00:46:00,120 Speaker 1: vd T paradigm to manipulate retaliation. Get love that sterile terminology. Yeah, So, 834 00:46:00,120 --> 00:46:04,799 Speaker 1: so again, there's nothing actually related to any kind of folklore, 835 00:46:04,880 --> 00:46:08,120 Speaker 1: I or religious practice here, So it's not really a ritual. 836 00:46:08,200 --> 00:46:12,000 Speaker 1: It's more just like the concept of enacting violence on 837 00:46:12,040 --> 00:46:15,279 Speaker 1: some kind of effigy, right, yeah, such as you know 838 00:46:15,400 --> 00:46:18,640 Speaker 1: very much the bubblehead in question. So the paper argues 839 00:46:18,680 --> 00:46:21,200 Speaker 1: that retaliation might be an important way in which we 840 00:46:21,280 --> 00:46:24,719 Speaker 1: deal with supervisor aggression, even though it should be discouraged 841 00:46:24,760 --> 00:46:28,040 Speaker 1: and only creates more problems. Quote. In particular, we have 842 00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:32,640 Speaker 1: proposed and found that subordinate retaliation can directly influence subordinate 843 00:46:32,680 --> 00:46:36,920 Speaker 1: justice perceptions. These findings suggest that retaliation not only benefits 844 00:46:36,920 --> 00:46:40,920 Speaker 1: individual victims, but may also benefit the organization as a whole, 845 00:46:41,040 --> 00:46:45,120 Speaker 1: given that justice perception is important for employee performance and 846 00:46:45,160 --> 00:46:47,719 Speaker 1: well being. So this is kind of like having the 847 00:46:48,080 --> 00:46:52,640 Speaker 1: giving employees the illusion of some kind of retaliation, like 848 00:46:52,719 --> 00:46:54,759 Speaker 1: that they haven't actually done anything to the boss, but 849 00:46:54,840 --> 00:46:58,200 Speaker 1: if they just pretend they're retaliating, that that makes the 850 00:46:58,239 --> 00:47:02,719 Speaker 1: company a little more lubricated of things. Okay, they're not saying, hey, 851 00:47:02,760 --> 00:47:05,239 Speaker 1: you need to have a dunking booth every year, and 852 00:47:05,280 --> 00:47:07,680 Speaker 1: that's the only way you're gonna restore balance of your company. 853 00:47:07,960 --> 00:47:09,960 Speaker 1: They say they take home is that is not that 854 00:47:10,000 --> 00:47:13,800 Speaker 1: companies should encourage retaliation, but they should include instead foster 855 00:47:13,960 --> 00:47:17,480 Speaker 1: quote subordinate justice perception. And one example of this is 856 00:47:17,520 --> 00:47:22,600 Speaker 1: having a zero tolerance policy against various abusive behaviors. They 857 00:47:22,640 --> 00:47:25,840 Speaker 1: also wonder if companies should rethink what is referred to 858 00:47:25,880 --> 00:47:29,000 Speaker 1: as deviant subordinate behavior. This would be like breaking the 859 00:47:29,040 --> 00:47:34,680 Speaker 1: bubble head because the individuals here, the the the subordinates 860 00:47:34,680 --> 00:47:37,360 Speaker 1: that are acting out. They might be attempting to resolve 861 00:47:37,440 --> 00:47:40,840 Speaker 1: perceived injustices, and perhaps they really should be disciplined for 862 00:47:40,880 --> 00:47:43,520 Speaker 1: what they're doing, but perhaps it also points to other 863 00:47:43,640 --> 00:47:46,200 Speaker 1: issues in the workplace that have yet to be resolved. 864 00:47:46,640 --> 00:47:50,600 Speaker 1: So it's like you fire the guy for breaking the bubblehead, 865 00:47:50,640 --> 00:47:52,600 Speaker 1: or you make the guy who broke the bubblehead, you know, 866 00:47:52,680 --> 00:47:58,160 Speaker 1: take a some sort of anger management towards toys class. Uh, 867 00:47:58,360 --> 00:48:02,520 Speaker 1: but then you still have whatever the existing caustic dynamic 868 00:48:02,600 --> 00:48:07,560 Speaker 1: happened to be between the boss and the employees. What 869 00:48:07,600 --> 00:48:09,920 Speaker 1: do you do about that? Like that it remains unchecked. 870 00:48:09,920 --> 00:48:13,040 Speaker 1: So they're saying this, this kind of behavior could just 871 00:48:13,120 --> 00:48:15,319 Speaker 1: be a you know, a canary in the coal mine, 872 00:48:15,360 --> 00:48:18,680 Speaker 1: I guess. So, then, was the use of the the 873 00:48:18,719 --> 00:48:22,840 Speaker 1: abuse of the effigy task was so? Was that actually 874 00:48:23,000 --> 00:48:26,759 Speaker 1: just to reveal some underlying attitudes or they actually suggesting 875 00:48:26,920 --> 00:48:30,560 Speaker 1: something like that is useful? I think they just used 876 00:48:30,600 --> 00:48:34,000 Speaker 1: it to reveal in this case, they're not saying, like, 877 00:48:34,160 --> 00:48:36,720 Speaker 1: do a voodoo doll task. You know that the voodoo 878 00:48:36,719 --> 00:48:39,480 Speaker 1: doll task is merely a part of the experiment and 879 00:48:39,880 --> 00:48:42,960 Speaker 1: part of any kind of solution that they are presenting. 880 00:48:44,040 --> 00:48:46,640 Speaker 1: So yeah, again, putting voodoo in the title of the paper, 881 00:48:47,960 --> 00:48:52,359 Speaker 1: it's it's maybe selling the voodoo elements a little too strong. Well, yeah, 882 00:48:52,360 --> 00:48:55,280 Speaker 1: And I think often to refer to like any process 883 00:48:55,320 --> 00:48:59,000 Speaker 1: by which like the mechanics of which are unclear. I 884 00:48:59,000 --> 00:49:02,480 Speaker 1: mean I think about like the phrase like voodoo economics 885 00:49:02,520 --> 00:49:04,480 Speaker 1: and stuff like that. I mean, it would be funny 886 00:49:04,520 --> 00:49:07,160 Speaker 1: to sub in any other name of any other religion. 887 00:49:07,200 --> 00:49:11,320 Speaker 1: They're like calling it Christian economics or uh or Hindu 888 00:49:11,400 --> 00:49:14,360 Speaker 1: economics or something. It wouldn't make much sense. I don't know. 889 00:49:14,400 --> 00:49:17,319 Speaker 1: I think maybe maybe people should try to retire those 890 00:49:17,440 --> 00:49:20,200 Speaker 1: uses of the word voodoo. It's a system of beliefs. Yeah, 891 00:49:20,320 --> 00:49:22,000 Speaker 1: you know that this would be a great excuse to 892 00:49:22,040 --> 00:49:23,719 Speaker 1: come back at some point in the future and do 893 00:49:23,760 --> 00:49:28,279 Speaker 1: a show on voodoo because we could discuss what voodoo is, 894 00:49:28,480 --> 00:49:32,920 Speaker 1: slash was, how it has been represented in our culture, 895 00:49:33,040 --> 00:49:36,319 Speaker 1: and how uh the terminology has been utilizable in this 896 00:49:36,360 --> 00:49:40,200 Speaker 1: case in scientific studies, but elsewhere as well. Okay, time 897 00:49:40,239 --> 00:49:44,120 Speaker 1: to turn to the Anthropology Prize, very different kind of subject. 898 00:49:44,200 --> 00:49:47,120 Speaker 1: This is going to deal with the concepts of learning 899 00:49:47,480 --> 00:49:52,839 Speaker 1: and imitation and uh and social mimicry. So you've heard 900 00:49:52,880 --> 00:49:56,600 Speaker 1: the expression obviously, monkey see monkey do uh. The funny 901 00:49:56,600 --> 00:49:59,040 Speaker 1: thing is that this is almost always applied to human 902 00:49:59,120 --> 00:50:02,200 Speaker 1: children rather monkeys. You know, people never say that about 903 00:50:02,280 --> 00:50:04,240 Speaker 1: a monkey. They say that about a four year old, 904 00:50:04,600 --> 00:50:07,720 Speaker 1: and as such, it tends to highlight the very strong 905 00:50:07,920 --> 00:50:12,080 Speaker 1: imitative tendencies of human children. You ever notice how like 906 00:50:12,120 --> 00:50:18,279 Speaker 1: a child will seem to spontaneously, almost unconsciously, mimic actions 907 00:50:18,320 --> 00:50:21,520 Speaker 1: that they see, Like they watch something on TV or 908 00:50:21,520 --> 00:50:24,320 Speaker 1: an adult doing something, and you'll see the child doing 909 00:50:24,360 --> 00:50:28,040 Speaker 1: the same thing with their hands that the adult is doing, 910 00:50:28,120 --> 00:50:30,160 Speaker 1: or the person on TV is doing, or something without 911 00:50:30,200 --> 00:50:33,720 Speaker 1: even seeming to realize it. Oh yeah, Like I need 912 00:50:33,760 --> 00:50:38,960 Speaker 1: the countless examples from my home child's life. But I 913 00:50:38,960 --> 00:50:43,879 Speaker 1: specifically remember like watching him dance while watching Frozen when 914 00:50:43,920 --> 00:50:46,799 Speaker 1: he was like super little, Like he doesn't even remember this, 915 00:50:46,920 --> 00:50:49,839 Speaker 1: but during the dance scenes he would move a little 916 00:50:49,840 --> 00:50:53,279 Speaker 1: bit while watching That's funny, I mean I actually have 917 00:50:53,440 --> 00:50:56,759 Speaker 1: very strong specific memories about this from when I was 918 00:50:56,800 --> 00:51:01,560 Speaker 1: a little kid, like of suddenly becoming embarrassed because I 919 00:51:01,640 --> 00:51:06,680 Speaker 1: realized I was spontaneously unconsciously imitating an action I had 920 00:51:06,760 --> 00:51:09,879 Speaker 1: just seen an adult do. For example, I remember being 921 00:51:09,960 --> 00:51:12,080 Speaker 1: very young and I was like watching a dude in 922 00:51:12,120 --> 00:51:15,840 Speaker 1: my neighborhood using a jackhammer to tear up a concrete 923 00:51:15,920 --> 00:51:18,280 Speaker 1: porch on the side of a house. And I realized 924 00:51:18,320 --> 00:51:21,400 Speaker 1: I was like spontaneously pretending to use a jackhammer and 925 00:51:21,480 --> 00:51:24,360 Speaker 1: making sounds with my mouth. And I was suddenly realized this, 926 00:51:24,440 --> 00:51:27,040 Speaker 1: and I was like super embarrassed. But we do this 927 00:51:27,080 --> 00:51:31,719 Speaker 1: for some reason. Obviously why One obvious answer is that 928 00:51:32,000 --> 00:51:36,040 Speaker 1: imitation is an instinct related to what the clear thing 929 00:51:36,239 --> 00:51:39,279 Speaker 1: learning right? Right, You see something, you sort of do 930 00:51:39,360 --> 00:51:43,040 Speaker 1: it yourself. You you imitate, and through imitation you learned right. 931 00:51:43,080 --> 00:51:45,840 Speaker 1: And so the idea here is that it's adaptive to 932 00:51:45,920 --> 00:51:49,560 Speaker 1: have an imitation instinct because through this you can have 933 00:51:49,800 --> 00:51:54,960 Speaker 1: transgenerational transfer of of ideas and behaviors. For example, you 934 00:51:55,000 --> 00:51:58,400 Speaker 1: watch the skilled adult do something throw a rock or 935 00:51:58,480 --> 00:52:01,799 Speaker 1: make a hand axe, and you imitate their movements as 936 00:52:01,840 --> 00:52:04,080 Speaker 1: a way of learning how to do the thing yourself. 937 00:52:04,760 --> 00:52:08,000 Speaker 1: But there appears to be another biological function of imitation, 938 00:52:08,040 --> 00:52:11,759 Speaker 1: which is that it plays a social communicative role. It 939 00:52:11,880 --> 00:52:17,040 Speaker 1: prolongs pro social interactions and generally promotes positive social relationships. 940 00:52:17,200 --> 00:52:19,680 Speaker 1: And this latter role has been investigated in humans, but 941 00:52:19,719 --> 00:52:22,360 Speaker 1: it's sort of under explored or sometimes even thought to 942 00:52:22,360 --> 00:52:26,839 Speaker 1: be absent in non human primates like chimpanzees. Uh, there's 943 00:52:26,960 --> 00:52:31,160 Speaker 1: clear evidence of other other primates like chimpanzees, say, imitating 944 00:52:31,239 --> 00:52:35,000 Speaker 1: behaviors of each other and of humans, especially in order 945 00:52:35,040 --> 00:52:38,200 Speaker 1: to clearly learn how to do something. But what would 946 00:52:38,239 --> 00:52:41,120 Speaker 1: be the evidence that there's this social communicative role in 947 00:52:41,200 --> 00:52:44,799 Speaker 1: humans that's not necessarily there in chimpanzees. Well, one is 948 00:52:44,840 --> 00:52:49,520 Speaker 1: this interesting fact that human children, but not apes, tend 949 00:52:49,560 --> 00:52:53,760 Speaker 1: to what's called over imitate. So here here's an example 950 00:52:53,800 --> 00:52:56,640 Speaker 1: I want to give you. If an adult is demonstrating 951 00:52:56,640 --> 00:52:59,960 Speaker 1: the physical actions required to accomplish a goal, human chill 952 00:53:00,000 --> 00:53:04,800 Speaker 1: aldren will usually copy directly all of the adults actions, 953 00:53:04,880 --> 00:53:09,080 Speaker 1: even if they're clearly irrelevant to achieve the goal. And meanwhile, 954 00:53:09,160 --> 00:53:13,360 Speaker 1: chimpanzees will tend to ignore the irrelevant actions and figure 955 00:53:13,360 --> 00:53:16,000 Speaker 1: out what's the important part to get the desired goal. 956 00:53:16,080 --> 00:53:18,600 Speaker 1: So an example would be an adult picks up a 957 00:53:18,640 --> 00:53:21,720 Speaker 1: colored block and then uses it to flip a switch 958 00:53:21,719 --> 00:53:24,600 Speaker 1: on a box, and then the box opens to reveal 959 00:53:24,680 --> 00:53:28,080 Speaker 1: a toy. Human children, especially starting around two years old, 960 00:53:28,120 --> 00:53:31,120 Speaker 1: will copy this exactly. They'll pick up the colored block 961 00:53:31,200 --> 00:53:33,480 Speaker 1: and use it to flip the switch to get the toy, 962 00:53:33,560 --> 00:53:35,919 Speaker 1: whereas the apes will just skip the block and they'll 963 00:53:35,960 --> 00:53:38,120 Speaker 1: just flip the switch with their hands and get the toy. 964 00:53:38,600 --> 00:53:42,080 Speaker 1: Another version I've heard is like, um, you have a 965 00:53:42,080 --> 00:53:44,760 Speaker 1: food item or a toy or something inside a box, 966 00:53:45,239 --> 00:53:48,280 Speaker 1: and you have an adult go through these elaborate rituals 967 00:53:48,280 --> 00:53:51,040 Speaker 1: with their hands before they open the doors of the 968 00:53:51,080 --> 00:53:55,560 Speaker 1: box and get the thing out. Apparently, apes and human 969 00:53:55,680 --> 00:53:58,919 Speaker 1: children will tend to copy all of the actions if 970 00:53:58,920 --> 00:54:02,279 Speaker 1: the boxes ache, but if the box is clear and 971 00:54:02,360 --> 00:54:05,399 Speaker 1: you can see the item inside, the human children will 972 00:54:05,440 --> 00:54:07,600 Speaker 1: still copy all of the actions, but the apes will 973 00:54:07,640 --> 00:54:10,000 Speaker 1: just reach in and get it. So the tay with 974 00:54:10,080 --> 00:54:11,839 Speaker 1: the real Tay come here would seem to be do 975 00:54:11,920 --> 00:54:15,880 Speaker 1: not bring a chimpanzee to communion, right, because that's not 976 00:54:15,920 --> 00:54:18,400 Speaker 1: going to follow any of the more ritual aspects of 977 00:54:18,440 --> 00:54:20,960 Speaker 1: the thing. It's just gonna go for the juice and bread. Well, 978 00:54:21,000 --> 00:54:24,120 Speaker 1: this is clear because this shows that even the presence 979 00:54:24,120 --> 00:54:27,360 Speaker 1: of rituals seems to show that there's some role of 980 00:54:27,440 --> 00:54:31,640 Speaker 1: imitation in human culture that goes beyond just like learning 981 00:54:31,760 --> 00:54:35,600 Speaker 1: useful skills that achieve goals. There's some type of imitation 982 00:54:35,640 --> 00:54:39,200 Speaker 1: that happens between humans that seems to be purely social, 983 00:54:39,760 --> 00:54:43,280 Speaker 1: and it's hypothesized by some that humans are actually better 984 00:54:43,400 --> 00:54:47,440 Speaker 1: learners than apes in part because of this slavish copying 985 00:54:47,600 --> 00:54:50,680 Speaker 1: of apparently pointless actions. You can imagine how this might 986 00:54:50,760 --> 00:54:54,880 Speaker 1: help in like learning to perform actions that don't immediately 987 00:54:55,040 --> 00:54:59,160 Speaker 1: result in a goal or reward. Right, Mimicking behaviors with 988 00:54:59,239 --> 00:55:03,480 Speaker 1: no obvious benefit also helps you learn more complex multi 989 00:55:03,560 --> 00:55:07,719 Speaker 1: step skills. That's true. Plus I also can't help but 990 00:55:07,760 --> 00:55:13,200 Speaker 1: think of steps in performing tasks where the the importance 991 00:55:13,239 --> 00:55:16,120 Speaker 1: of some of those steps might be lost on on 992 00:55:16,200 --> 00:55:19,479 Speaker 1: a novice exactly, but later I realize, oh, that's really 993 00:55:19,600 --> 00:55:22,759 Speaker 1: essential if I should wear a radiation suit well while 994 00:55:22,840 --> 00:55:26,560 Speaker 1: messing around with these these rods. Yes, So the question 995 00:55:26,680 --> 00:55:31,839 Speaker 1: is why do human children copy more perfectly and more pointlessly, 996 00:55:32,480 --> 00:55:35,359 Speaker 1: where whereas apes don't to the same extent, And one 997 00:55:35,400 --> 00:55:38,239 Speaker 1: potential answer is that the human copying appears to be 998 00:55:38,400 --> 00:55:41,120 Speaker 1: for more than just learning how to achieve goals. It's 999 00:55:41,160 --> 00:55:45,200 Speaker 1: also playing this social communicative role where the imitation itself 1000 00:55:45,280 --> 00:55:48,399 Speaker 1: is useful not just for achieving mechanical goals, but for 1001 00:55:48,480 --> 00:55:52,719 Speaker 1: things like improving relationships between people. And this could be 1002 00:55:52,760 --> 00:55:55,600 Speaker 1: seen somewhat parallel to Robert something I know you've read 1003 00:55:55,640 --> 00:55:59,200 Speaker 1: about before, the unconscious process of mirroring in human psychology 1004 00:55:59,200 --> 00:56:02,600 Speaker 1: and behavior. If you if you've never observed this, just 1005 00:56:02,640 --> 00:56:07,480 Speaker 1: do a quick experiment. Watch two co workers separately, and 1006 00:56:07,520 --> 00:56:10,680 Speaker 1: then watch them once they begin a conversation with each other. 1007 00:56:11,040 --> 00:56:13,920 Speaker 1: There's a very good chance that when they start talking 1008 00:56:13,920 --> 00:56:16,319 Speaker 1: to each other, you might be able to notice them 1009 00:56:16,360 --> 00:56:21,839 Speaker 1: beginning to show similar posture and nonverbal behaviors like gesturing, 1010 00:56:21,920 --> 00:56:25,319 Speaker 1: without them seeming to notice that they're doing it. And 1011 00:56:25,400 --> 00:56:28,680 Speaker 1: this is an unconscious form of imitation known as mirroring. 1012 00:56:28,920 --> 00:56:31,840 Speaker 1: It appears to be a pro social adaptation that builds 1013 00:56:31,920 --> 00:56:35,560 Speaker 1: feelings of closeness and rapport between people, and research shows 1014 00:56:35,600 --> 00:56:39,360 Speaker 1: that when other people mirror your actions, you have increased 1015 00:56:39,360 --> 00:56:42,520 Speaker 1: positive feelings. You trust them more, you feel closer to them, 1016 00:56:42,560 --> 00:56:45,279 Speaker 1: You're more likely to believe they share your attitudes and 1017 00:56:45,320 --> 00:56:47,840 Speaker 1: stuff like that. But we like to. We like to 1018 00:56:47,880 --> 00:56:50,720 Speaker 1: mirror each other's behaviors because we like to be mirrored. 1019 00:56:50,760 --> 00:56:53,080 Speaker 1: It makes us feel good. Yeah, this is always something 1020 00:56:53,200 --> 00:56:56,319 Speaker 1: very interesting to observe when we we actually stop to 1021 00:56:56,360 --> 00:57:00,000 Speaker 1: observe it, because there's like it's happening at a linguistic level. 1022 00:57:00,280 --> 00:57:03,040 Speaker 1: It's happening in the way we speak with our hands, 1023 00:57:03,080 --> 00:57:05,680 Speaker 1: and now the under person may speak with their hands 1024 00:57:05,719 --> 00:57:08,839 Speaker 1: as well. Um, And of course we're not running through 1025 00:57:08,880 --> 00:57:11,960 Speaker 1: all of this before we have a conversation. We're not saying, hey, uh, 1026 00:57:12,000 --> 00:57:13,279 Speaker 1: if do you wanna how much do you want to 1027 00:57:13,360 --> 00:57:15,560 Speaker 1: use your hands during this conversation. I'm thinking about keeping 1028 00:57:15,560 --> 00:57:19,400 Speaker 1: it like nd body level, but I could go wider. No, 1029 00:57:19,800 --> 00:57:22,680 Speaker 1: I mean, it's generally entirely unconscious. And the funny thing is, 1030 00:57:23,120 --> 00:57:25,360 Speaker 1: I mean we like it when it's unconscious. But like 1031 00:57:25,400 --> 00:57:28,400 Speaker 1: if you pointed it out and people were doing it consciously, 1032 00:57:28,400 --> 00:57:31,480 Speaker 1: it would seems psychopathic, right, You would think like, oh 1033 00:57:31,520 --> 00:57:34,120 Speaker 1: my god, I'm being manipulated. I hate this if you 1034 00:57:34,200 --> 00:57:37,560 Speaker 1: thought the person was consciously doing it. But nevertheless, we 1035 00:57:37,600 --> 00:57:40,400 Speaker 1: do have all of this clearly conscious imitation going on 1036 00:57:40,480 --> 00:57:43,240 Speaker 1: with with human children and with nonhuman primates, with the 1037 00:57:43,280 --> 00:57:46,720 Speaker 1: distinctions we've talked about before, but this study that won 1038 00:57:46,800 --> 00:57:49,960 Speaker 1: the Ignoble this year, the Ignoble Anthropology Price focused on 1039 00:57:50,280 --> 00:57:55,160 Speaker 1: testing for evidence of social communicative imitation in non human 1040 00:57:55,240 --> 00:57:58,880 Speaker 1: primates in chimpanzees. So it's taking issue with that previous 1041 00:57:58,920 --> 00:58:03,520 Speaker 1: consensus that they're is no social communicative imitation and non 1042 00:58:03,600 --> 00:58:06,640 Speaker 1: human primates. That for the non human primates, it's just basic, 1043 00:58:06,680 --> 00:58:10,560 Speaker 1: you know, mechanical learning imitation. And so the prize was 1044 00:58:10,600 --> 00:58:16,400 Speaker 1: given to Thomas Person, Gabrielle, Elina South south Quick, Elaine Madison, 1045 00:58:16,840 --> 00:58:20,000 Speaker 1: Oh sorry, and Elaine Madison for quote collecting evidence in 1046 00:58:20,040 --> 00:58:23,560 Speaker 1: a zoo that chimpanzees imitate humans about as often and 1047 00:58:23,640 --> 00:58:27,800 Speaker 1: about as well as humans imitate chimpanzees. This was published 1048 00:58:27,800 --> 00:58:31,120 Speaker 1: in the journal Primates in the year so earlier this year, 1049 00:58:31,720 --> 00:58:33,920 Speaker 1: and so basically what happened is you had these researchers 1050 00:58:33,920 --> 00:58:38,080 Speaker 1: from Lunda University in Sweden and they studied spontaneous interactions 1051 00:58:38,120 --> 00:58:42,520 Speaker 1: between chimpanzees and human visitors at the Furivic Zoo in Sweden, 1052 00:58:42,880 --> 00:58:45,120 Speaker 1: and what they found was interesting. They found that humans 1053 00:58:45,120 --> 00:58:50,240 Speaker 1: in chimpanzees spontaneously imitated each other at roughly the same 1054 00:58:50,400 --> 00:58:54,520 Speaker 1: rate going both ways, about ten percent of actions that 1055 00:58:54,640 --> 00:58:59,680 Speaker 1: each species performed were spontaneously imitated by the other, though 1056 00:58:59,760 --> 00:59:02,520 Speaker 1: human is overall showed what they quote called a higher 1057 00:59:02,560 --> 00:59:06,760 Speaker 1: imitative precision. So like the humans, imitations of the apes 1058 00:59:06,840 --> 00:59:09,920 Speaker 1: were more finely tuned, you might say, a little bit 1059 00:59:09,920 --> 00:59:12,920 Speaker 1: more accurate. But the apes imitated the humans at the 1060 00:59:12,960 --> 00:59:16,320 Speaker 1: same rate that the humans imitated the apes. Uh. There 1061 00:59:16,400 --> 00:59:19,840 Speaker 1: was also some congruity in the kinds of actions imitated 1062 00:59:19,880 --> 00:59:23,600 Speaker 1: by both humans and chimpanzees, who tended especially to copy 1063 00:59:23,680 --> 00:59:27,920 Speaker 1: things like clapping the hands, pressing lips against the window, 1064 00:59:28,080 --> 00:59:31,360 Speaker 1: like kissing the glass, knocking on the glass with the hand, 1065 00:59:31,720 --> 00:59:34,040 Speaker 1: and knocking on the head with the hand. I like 1066 00:59:34,160 --> 00:59:36,600 Speaker 1: that one. But one thing you might notice about these 1067 00:59:36,640 --> 00:59:41,120 Speaker 1: imitated actions is that they're common, which means they're familiar, 1068 00:59:41,440 --> 00:59:43,840 Speaker 1: which means they're not new to the animal, and they're 1069 00:59:43,880 --> 00:59:47,439 Speaker 1: not in service of any goal. They're not getting anything. Thus, 1070 00:59:47,480 --> 00:59:51,360 Speaker 1: the authors think that this is evidence of social communicative imitation, 1071 00:59:51,440 --> 00:59:56,240 Speaker 1: what's done for the purpose of bonding, building rapport, communicating intentions, 1072 00:59:56,320 --> 00:59:59,320 Speaker 1: and so forth, rather than for learning how to do 1073 00:59:59,400 --> 01:00:03,240 Speaker 1: new tas asks or accomplished goals. Another piece of evidence 1074 01:00:03,240 --> 01:00:07,600 Speaker 1: that the chimpanzees showed social communicative imitation is that interactions 1075 01:00:07,640 --> 01:00:12,160 Speaker 1: between humans and chimpanzees lasted longer on average when there 1076 01:00:12,200 --> 01:00:15,720 Speaker 1: was imitation than when there was none. So the authors 1077 01:00:15,760 --> 01:00:18,840 Speaker 1: conclude that there's more evidence than previously thought that apes 1078 01:00:18,960 --> 01:00:23,080 Speaker 1: also evolved imitation instincts for social and communication reasons, not 1079 01:00:23,240 --> 01:00:26,040 Speaker 1: just for learning. So maybe we could bring them to communion. 1080 01:00:26,440 --> 01:00:29,280 Speaker 1: Maybe that's a good Yeah, So I wonder, I mean, 1081 01:00:29,400 --> 01:00:34,560 Speaker 1: this obviously is intension with some previous findings, so you 1082 01:00:34,640 --> 01:00:38,720 Speaker 1: gotta wonder, like what what's causing the distinction there. Maybe 1083 01:00:38,800 --> 01:00:43,680 Speaker 1: chimpanzees are just more goal oriented. They know what they 1084 01:00:43,720 --> 01:00:45,800 Speaker 1: want and they tend to get it. I wonder how 1085 01:00:45,840 --> 01:00:47,640 Speaker 1: this play is into any of the Planet of the 1086 01:00:47,640 --> 01:00:51,680 Speaker 1: Apes movies, if this could be used to understand any 1087 01:00:51,760 --> 01:00:55,000 Speaker 1: character motivations there, well, like if Charlton Heston had only 1088 01:00:55,120 --> 01:00:58,320 Speaker 1: mirrored doctors as more, um, they might have gotten a 1089 01:00:58,360 --> 01:01:04,640 Speaker 1: long better all right, So there you have it. Ignoble Prizes. 1090 01:01:05,160 --> 01:01:08,520 Speaker 1: We've rolled through all the winners for this year in 1091 01:01:08,560 --> 01:01:12,040 Speaker 1: these two episodes, and again some of them we gave 1092 01:01:12,080 --> 01:01:14,240 Speaker 1: more attention than others, and pretty much any of them 1093 01:01:14,280 --> 01:01:16,880 Speaker 1: touch on a topic that we either have discussed in 1094 01:01:16,880 --> 01:01:19,720 Speaker 1: the pastor could easily discuss again in the future. So 1095 01:01:19,720 --> 01:01:22,360 Speaker 1: if you have particular thoughts on what episodes we should 1096 01:01:22,360 --> 01:01:25,160 Speaker 1: do in the future, just let us know. In the meantime. 1097 01:01:25,200 --> 01:01:26,840 Speaker 1: Heading over to Stuff to Blow your Mind dot com. 1098 01:01:26,880 --> 01:01:28,600 Speaker 1: That's the mother ship. That's where we'll find all the 1099 01:01:28,600 --> 01:01:31,280 Speaker 1: episodes of the podcast. 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