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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Markets Podcast. I'm Paul Sweney. Along

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Speaker 1: with my co host of Bonnie Quinn. Every business day

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Speaker 1: we bring you interviews from CEOs, market pros, and Bloomberg experts,

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Speaker 1: along with essential market moving news. Find the Bloomberg Markets

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Speaker 1: Podcast on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts,

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Speaker 1: and on Bloomberg dot com. In the Business Roundtable, an

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Speaker 1: organization of nearly two hundred CEOs change its core statement

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Speaker 1: on the purpose of a corporation. For two decades, it

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Speaker 1: has said that companies should primarily strive to maximize shareholder returns.

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Speaker 1: Its new statement, however, called on companies to deliver value

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Speaker 1: to all stakeholders beyond shareholders. Our next guest has a

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Speaker 1: fascinating column out on this topic. Joe No Sarah Bloomberg

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Speaker 1: Opinion Commis is out with a fascinating colum that's getting

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Speaker 1: a lot of attention on Wall Street and beyond. Joe

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Speaker 1: talked to us about this concept here of stakeholders above

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Speaker 1: and beyond perhaps just shareholders, and how that whole discussion

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Speaker 1: maybe changing as a result of this pandemic. Wait, it's

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Speaker 1: getting a lot of attention on Wall Street. Yes, sir,

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Speaker 1: nice to know, so, Joe. I mean, it's just it's

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Speaker 1: fascinating here. I mean, you know again we you know,

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Speaker 1: when I went to business school, it was all about

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Speaker 1: maximizing shareholder returns. Maximize. And I was in the room

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Speaker 1: when the phrase was invented. I was in the I

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Speaker 1: was in the Worldife Fast Story in two June, watching

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Speaker 1: Boone Pickens try and take over his first city services,

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Speaker 1: first big takeover play. Yeah, that that was. It's how's

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Speaker 1: what's changing here? If anything? Well, you know what, what

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Speaker 1: you gotta remember, maximizing shareholder value has not always been

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Speaker 1: you know, the synequa non of of of American business.

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Speaker 1: It hasn't been um you know, in in in in

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Speaker 1: the thirties and the forties and the fifties and the sixties. Uh,

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Speaker 1: companies viewed themselves as having a wide range of constituents

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Speaker 1: of whom shareholders were one. I mean, I remember, well

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Speaker 1: I don't really remember, but GE had before Jack weltch Um,

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Speaker 1: Red Red Jones the CEO. You know, he was considered

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Speaker 1: the most important CEO of his time. And in the

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Speaker 1: ten years he had the job, the stock went down nine.

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Speaker 1: It was a different world. So so yeah, maximizing shareholder value.

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Speaker 1: There was no question that more emphasis needed to be

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Speaker 1: put on shareholders, no question at all. And there's no

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Speaker 1: question that companies needed to, you know, get leader and meaner.

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Speaker 1: There was a lot of fact there was a lot

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Speaker 1: of sluggishness, and we were letting um uh arrivals from

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Speaker 1: abroad eat our lunch and autos and other and other areas.

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Speaker 1: But now the pendulum swung too far and it got

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Speaker 1: that gave us Enron, and it gave us drug prices

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Speaker 1: that that that never stopped going up, and it gave

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Speaker 1: us you know, the Bowling seven thirty seven max, which

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Speaker 1: is definitely directly related to wanting to keep the stock

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Speaker 1: stock price high at board and so, and then you

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Speaker 1: have the pandemic where companies really had to step up

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Speaker 1: and think about their employees and think about the country

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Speaker 1: and what they could do for the country. And that

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Speaker 1: and that um sentiment is kind of closer to what

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Speaker 1: happened in the sixties and the fifties than it is

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Speaker 1: to maximizing shareholder value. And the argument that I make

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Speaker 1: in my column is that if you want to get

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Speaker 1: rid of income intequality or reduce it and get back

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Speaker 1: to a country that has good middle class jobs and

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Speaker 1: a sense for people that they can they can do

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Speaker 1: better in life than their parents, or they can do

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Speaker 1: well in life. You know, you just can't focus on shareholders.

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Speaker 1: You have to as you know, you have to think

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Speaker 1: of other things, broader things. And I think what we've

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Speaker 1: discovered over this time of this pandemic and even a

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Speaker 1: little earlier, is that a lot of corporate executive have

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Speaker 1: come to understand that and have come to realize that

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Speaker 1: you can't have a narrow slice of the country doing

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Speaker 1: well and everybody else doing poorly. As I recall, this

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Speaker 1: was a theme a Devil as well. It was stakeholders

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Speaker 1: for a cohesive and sustainable world. So it sounds like

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Speaker 1: all of these organizations doubles the Business round Table, they're

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Speaker 1: look like the Supreme Court. They sort of go where

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Speaker 1: the public mood needs them to go at some point. So, Joe,

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Speaker 1: what happens now? How does you know David Solomon and

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Speaker 1: Jamie Diamond and all of these people, you know, make

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Speaker 1: that a reality or will it be up to these

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Speaker 1: new regulators that we're hearing a lot about. Well, I

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Speaker 1: don't really think a lot of companies are going to

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Speaker 1: do this completely on their own without some kind of

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Speaker 1: prompting UM. So, you know, I think it's I think Biden,

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Speaker 1: I think this is something Joe Biden should talk about.

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Speaker 1: But I also think it's something that the administration can

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Speaker 1: take some steps to create an sent ups UM. It

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Speaker 1: can create tax in centers for factories built in the

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Speaker 1: US or percentage of the workforce that stays and that

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Speaker 1: that stays UH in the US. It can use the

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Speaker 1: Defense Production Act to um UH to force a certain

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Speaker 1: amount of manufacturing in the U S a natural security ground.

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Speaker 1: For instance, you know it was in nuts that we

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Speaker 1: had no in masks that except for three M everything

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Speaker 1: else was made in China. UM. So that's another sort

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Speaker 1: of thing you can do. Infrastructure I think could be

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Speaker 1: huge because if they actually had an infrastructure program, they

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Speaker 1: could set a wage for workers that would be very

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Speaker 1: attractive and that companies would have to match if they

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Speaker 1: wanted to keep their employees. UM So, you know. I

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Speaker 1: and by the way, the fifteen dollar minimum wage I

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Speaker 1: think has the potential to be huge if that If

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Speaker 1: that becomes long, Joe and your columny talk talk to

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Speaker 1: us about a company named demo Tech. Is the story there? Oh?

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Speaker 1: So Demotech is a is a families, small family owned

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Speaker 1: company in Miami, and they make surgical supply suitors and

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Speaker 1: things like that. So the pandemic comes along and they

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Speaker 1: realized there's a huge shortage of PPE personal protection equipment,

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Speaker 1: and so they hire a bunch of people, six hundred people,

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Speaker 1: and they invest millions of dollars and they kind of

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Speaker 1: set up a PPE division. Um uh, you know, yeah,

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Speaker 1: they want to make money, but it was a lot

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Speaker 1: of it. The motivation was to help the country because

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Speaker 1: they could see in Miami and Florida and elsewhere, hospitals

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Speaker 1: didn't have the stuff they needed. And um, once to

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Speaker 1: get approval by the FDA, things went really well all

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Speaker 1: summer long. But when I talked to the Demotech executives,

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Speaker 1: they told me that already the buyers were starting many

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Speaker 1: of the buyers were starting to shift their buying back

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Speaker 1: to China. And that's exactly the kind of thinking that

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Speaker 1: is really destructive, you know, because what they're doing is

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Speaker 1: that they're sacrificing the security of having an American made

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Speaker 1: product for the you know, the price, the cheaper price

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Speaker 1: they can get from China. That's exactly what it got

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Speaker 1: us into this problem in the In the first place,

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Speaker 1: and so um the guy from Dynetech basically said, if

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Speaker 1: I don't, if the government doesn't get involved here, I'm

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Speaker 1: not gonna be able to stay in this business because

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Speaker 1: I'm not gonna have any customers left. And I think

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Speaker 1: that's tragic, both in terms of the jobs that they

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Speaker 1: created and also in terms of the national security implications

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Speaker 1: that we have discovered during this pandemic. Who do you

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Speaker 1: see taking a lead on this show? I mean, will

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Speaker 1: the likes of Jeff Bezos do something? I doubt I be,

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Speaker 1: but I think it could well very well be Jamie Diamond. Uh.

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Speaker 1: He has talked quite a bit about this, and he

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Speaker 1: has um My buddy Andrews. Storkin had a column the

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Speaker 1: other day and The Times and deal Book about um

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Speaker 1: uh a group that he has of stinkers who who

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Speaker 1: helped him, who had put together a memo saying that

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Speaker 1: if we don't solve inequality, you know everything else, um,

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Speaker 1: everything else doesn't matter. This is what has to be done.

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Speaker 1: And Jamie has made some very tough statements about you know,

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Speaker 1: as a company, CEOs have to start doing things that's

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Speaker 1: not necessarily best in their best short term business interests.

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Speaker 1: Even if if they helped the country. Joe, thank you,

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Speaker 1: fabulous column Biden has once an essentially chance to fix

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Speaker 1: capitalism joan Oh Sarah Bloomberg opinion columnist who had alread

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Speaker 1: everybody to have a read of this one. It is

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Speaker 1: NFL Championship playoff weekend. In the first game Tampa Bay

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Speaker 1: Buccaneers against the Green Bay Packers, and in the second

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Speaker 1: game a David versus Goliath. We have the Buffalo Bills

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Speaker 1: against the Kansas City Chiefs. It's getting that game is

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Speaker 1: getting a little bit heated in the grocery aisles. Interesting story.

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Speaker 1: Bert Flickingshare, Managing Director, Strategic Resource Group, joins us here Bert,

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Speaker 1: what's going on in some of these UH supermarket chains

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Speaker 1: in Buffalo and beyond? Uh? Paul Joe, s CEO of

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Speaker 1: legendary four generation Dashes Markets family ninety seven years is

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Speaker 1: reversing the proverbial curse of the cookie number thirty four

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Speaker 1: Cookie Gilchrist and the curse of the fireman number twelve.

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Speaker 1: Darryl la Monica from current Bills quarterbacks same area from

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Speaker 1: Fresno and Gilchrist and Lamonica were key in leading the

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Speaker 1: Bills to their first and only championships and they never

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Speaker 1: got put on the Wall of Fame, and UH wound

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Speaker 1: wound up losing January one, sixty seven and the Kansas

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Speaker 1: City Chiefs for the first time, UH first chance to

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Speaker 1: get into the Super Bowl, and they've been trying to

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Speaker 1: beat Kansas City in a championship game since. And and

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Speaker 1: um so the Dash families taking all the Kansas City

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Speaker 1: Masterpiece barbecue sauce office shelves of all the Dashes stores

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Speaker 1: and replacing it with Guy uses African American locally owned

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Speaker 1: and operated UM Black Family Fuses preservative free, sugar free

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Speaker 1: and gluten free barbecue sauce, which is out selling the

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Speaker 1: Kansas City Masterpiece barbecue sauce. No no, I, I just

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Speaker 1: just just just an old entrepreneur um and uh five

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Speaker 1: generations of coming out of foster farms and orphanages helping

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Speaker 1: us start the food food industry there and enhanced with

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Speaker 1: ten thousand since Red and Red and White, I g

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Speaker 1: A and rex Al drug stores that my ancestors co founded. Well,

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Speaker 1: that is an amazing story. Love to hear all of

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Speaker 1: that sometime, But bart it tells me that that Kansas

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Speaker 1: City Barbecue Hall must have been pretty good in the

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Speaker 1: first place it was ever on those shows, it was

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Speaker 1: good um vanni, but it was Craft combining with Hinz,

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Speaker 1: combining with Buffett and three G and reportedly, uh, the

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Speaker 1: ingredients and the quality wasn't as good as uh what

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Speaker 1: Joe Dash and his team noticed with Ge Hughes. And

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Speaker 1: they always support um um minority and African American and

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Speaker 1: United Nations of entrepreneurs on on the US and Canadian border.

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Speaker 1: So it was giving a great entrepreneur a chance. And

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Speaker 1: as Paul said in the David Goliath Versus Goliath story,

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Speaker 1: Gee Hughes is barbecue sauce uh knocks off and is

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Speaker 1: is out selling the Kansas City Craft barbecue sauce by

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Speaker 1: a factor of a thousand percent. All right, Bert, So again,

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Speaker 1: it's a NFL playoff weekend, typically a big time for

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Speaker 1: bars and restaurants as people watch the games, but of course,

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Speaker 1: across much of the country, Uh, that is not an option.

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Speaker 1: What are we seeing from some of the grocers. Are

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Speaker 1: they seeing their sales of you know, chicken wings and

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Speaker 1: you know, sodas and beer. Are we're seeing that really

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Speaker 1: kick up here because there's nowhere else to go to

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Speaker 1: watch the games? Paul, Yes, record breaking sales on the

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg term an all food retail was down two percent

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Speaker 1: less month. Dashes is up over over and and every

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Speaker 1: week is a record breaking week, bigger than any Thanksgiving

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Speaker 1: week or Christmas Sonica week. Uh they ever had, So

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Speaker 1: like you said, chicken wings, beef on wick, all of

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Speaker 1: what the Catoloni family, Uh, the co founded Dashes calls

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Speaker 1: hometown favorites, and uh it's on the Bloomberg terminal trailing

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Speaker 1: twelve months. Restaurant sales are down, So Dashes is preparing

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Speaker 1: meals and its commissaries and kitchens in the stores and

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Speaker 1: delivering it to seniors or letting people pick up curbside

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Speaker 1: or get chef quality prepared meals from Dashes chefs and

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Speaker 1: Dashes is literally putting Amazon's new Whole Foods prototype store

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Speaker 1: on Niagara falls out of business and going toe to

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Speaker 1: toe with all the big golias from Walmart to Target, UH,

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Speaker 1: to Costco, to b J's to Wegmans to all all

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Speaker 1: the all of which are doing extremely well. We're out

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Speaker 1: of time, but two quick questions, who wins this weekend

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Speaker 1: and who goes bankrupt? More broadly in retail this year

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Speaker 1: and quickly reversed the curse of the cookie and Darryl Lemonica,

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Speaker 1: uh bose went by a point and UH for retailers

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Speaker 1: that go bankrupt still worried about UH Neiman Marcus not

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Speaker 1: doing a boomerang bankruptcy UM and Neeman and Bergdorf boomerang

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Speaker 1: boomerang back into bankruptcy this year. UH food draw drag

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Speaker 1: and off price retail record breaking sales continue for the

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Speaker 1: foreseeable future. Bert fabulous. I love the broad range of

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Speaker 1: things that you can speak of, Paul. Do you agree

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Speaker 1: with his call for the weekend? I hope so. I'd

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Speaker 1: be a nice story to see the Buffalo Bills kind of.

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Speaker 1: I think it's been twenty seven years and they've had

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Speaker 1: a tough go, but they got a great new young quarterback.

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Speaker 1: But two good games this weekend, and the big winners

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Speaker 1: are the TV networks. Yes, record breaking rating exactly for sure. Well,

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Speaker 1: Bert Pleconder, as we don't have to really point out,

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Speaker 1: is a Buffalo soun So thanks for joining us today.

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Speaker 1: Bert's he is managing director of course, as well as

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Speaker 1: Strategic Resource Group. Don't often get to talk to about sports,

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Speaker 1: but this is a great opportunity. So thanks to Sambling,

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Speaker 1: our producer for setting that one up. Bert is obviously

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Speaker 1: a retail expert and talks to us generally about how

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Speaker 1: retailers are doing. So I guess we'll set our our

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Speaker 1: timers to see what happens this weekend. Once again, existing

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Speaker 1: homeshill surprising to the upside. In December seven point six

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Speaker 1: point seven six million homes were sold. That was more

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Speaker 1: than the six point five six million economists we're looking for,

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Speaker 1: and the previous month was revised upwards as well. Let's

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Speaker 1: bring in Logan Motor Shammy, housing data analysts and columnists

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Speaker 1: for Housing Wire, just to give us a board update

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Speaker 1: on where we are housing wise. Is there continued demand

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Speaker 1: out there Logan for you know, suburban and ex urban housing. Absolutely,

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Speaker 1: you know a lot of these A lot of this

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Speaker 1: hot data that we're seeing in existing home sales is

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Speaker 1: actually just a makeup demand for the lost months that

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Speaker 1: we had during COVID and purchase application data has been

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Speaker 1: positive year over year for about thirty eight weeks right now,

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Speaker 1: So the story is going to continue. It's pretty much,

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Speaker 1: you know, keep it simple. We have the US has

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Speaker 1: the best housing demographics ever. Mortgage rates are at the

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Speaker 1: lowest levels ever, so housing demand will be stable for

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Speaker 1: the only the only issue is how hot can home

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Speaker 1: prices go after you know, having an extremely hot year

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Speaker 1: last year, going into one with lower mortgage rates and

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Speaker 1: the economy coming back, logan talk to us about supply.

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Speaker 1: We we you know, as as you mentioned, the demand

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Speaker 1: dynamics seemed to be in place for the near and

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Speaker 1: intermediate term talk supply of homes, and this is a

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Speaker 1: problem is with months with supply solo all time lows

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Speaker 1: UH as of today, and some of that is just

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Speaker 1: a function of you know, inventory falls toward the end

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Speaker 1: of the year. Unless mortgage rates go up higher, we

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Speaker 1: can be in this very low inventory environment for all

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Speaker 1: of which again the problem is that home prices can deviate,

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Speaker 1: you know, from what normally would have been the occurrence

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Speaker 1: if there is a typical expansion or where I mean,

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Speaker 1: COVID has kept mortgage rates lower than it should be.

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Speaker 1: So if the economy comes back, does hire mortgage rates

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Speaker 1: bring more supply? That's what we want. We we don't

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Speaker 1: want this kind of hot, hot home price growth year

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Speaker 1: after year after year. And you know, I know a

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Speaker 1: lot of people are thinking, well, people are just going

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Speaker 1: to move around work from home, and that will bring

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Speaker 1: more supply. The velocity of inventory only really comes when

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Speaker 1: rates come a little bit higher. You know, typically demand

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Speaker 1: gets better inventory they flat or go lower. So high

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Speaker 1: our mortgage rates right now are the only thing that

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Speaker 1: could help the inventory situation. Well, there's also those nine

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Speaker 1: million unemployed logan, I presume none of these are people

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Speaker 1: buying homes. The majority of the people that were unemployed

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Speaker 1: in this crisis were renters or people that would you know,

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Speaker 1: fall into the renter financial profile. Higher wage income Americans

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Speaker 1: didn't lose his money, uh jobs as that group did,

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Speaker 1: so it didn't impact the housing data as much. We

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Speaker 1: we froze as a country for for about five or

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Speaker 1: six months months. Purchased application data were down big year

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Speaker 1: over year, and then it stopped going down and just

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Speaker 1: ran up. Hired. We've gotta b shape recovery, and then

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Speaker 1: we've been making up. I think that's the big thing

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Speaker 1: that people should realize. This parabolic rise in existing home

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Speaker 1: sales is all makeup demand. It will eventually come back

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Speaker 1: down to a normal trend, and that normal trend should

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Speaker 1: not be looked at in a negative way. We ended

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Speaker 1: the year of five point six four million, so we

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Speaker 1: still have this big deviation from monthly sales to where

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Speaker 1: total sales trends are, so sales will come down slowly

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Speaker 1: and then we'll find a normal train and will take

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Speaker 1: it from there. But again, the lowest mortgage rates ever,

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Speaker 1: the best demographics that are can facilitate unhealthy price growth.

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Speaker 1: We don't want that. We want the economy to recover.

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Speaker 1: We want mortgage rates to go higher. It'll cool the

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Speaker 1: market down, it will bring balance back, because this is

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Speaker 1: about a balanced market right now. Look and talk to

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Speaker 1: us about the mortgage market, the underwriting market, and and

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Speaker 1: kind of are we are the mortgage writers. Are they

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Speaker 1: writing good mortgages? Talk to us about that, because that's

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Speaker 1: where we got into some trouble. Obviously back in the

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Speaker 1: in the financial crisis post we've had the best loan

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Speaker 1: profile ever in US history. Most of these loans are

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Speaker 1: all six slow debt cost loans with rising wages. So

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Speaker 1: this is one of the reasons why the housing market

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Speaker 1: did so well. We didn't have any kind of exotic

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Speaker 1: loan debt structures or anything that would facilitate unnecessary inventory

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Speaker 1: to increase. And part of that also is problematic because

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Speaker 1: you're not going to get um inventory to skyrocket anytime soon.

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Speaker 1: When demand is good. So uh, the the underranting standards

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Speaker 1: are perfect. That's that's one area in the US economy

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Speaker 1: we don't have to worry about. The thing we have

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Speaker 1: to do is always make sure not to ease lending

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Speaker 1: standards to facilitate more home sales at risk co owners.

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Speaker 1: And so far there's nothing out there that would that

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Speaker 1: would require even that discussion. Logan, what happens if we

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Speaker 1: get a major sell off in equity markets? What happens

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Speaker 1: to demand? Then, well, sell off an equity markets means

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Speaker 1: body yields go down, mortgage rates sold. Yeah, but listen,

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Speaker 1: mortgage rates are low. It's not the mortgage that's going

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Speaker 1: to stop people. But what if their wells gets gets uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, torn us under in an equity market sell

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Speaker 1: off equity markets sell off in relationship to home would

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Speaker 1: probably the higher end market. Maybe you don't get that

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Speaker 1: two to three million home buyer, but outside of that

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Speaker 1: not really. It's just we have a lot of young people.

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Speaker 1: Just to give some perspective, ages twenty seven to thirty

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Speaker 1: three is about thirty two and a half million people.

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Speaker 1: People need somewhere to live as long as they're employed.

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Speaker 1: Even if the stock markets you know, we've had corrections

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Speaker 1: all through the longest economic expansion ever. In the last one,

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Speaker 1: home sales just moved along. So a big equity sell off.

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Speaker 1: My impact maybe the higher end markets in New York

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Speaker 1: and California or Miami or Connecticut, but that's not it

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Speaker 1: just doesn't have that kind of velocity if employment levels

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Speaker 1: are high or mortgage interested. It's just certain marketplaces would

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Speaker 1: be impacted. Logan talked to us about the construction of

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Speaker 1: housing for kind of that first time buyer. We've heard

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Speaker 1: in the past that that kind of inventory was just

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Speaker 1: not being created. Well, one thing that's been positive, uh

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Speaker 1: in housing is that after when the when the when

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Speaker 1: the builders and new home sales had had a really

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Speaker 1: big salesmith builders have been building smaller homes. And the

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Speaker 1: question is now is does that continue or is this

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Speaker 1: theme of all people want bigger homes because they want

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Speaker 1: an extra room for their you know, for their for

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Speaker 1: their family members, or for their office. We'll see how

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Speaker 1: that goes. But that has actually been a real good

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Speaker 1: positive for this country that builders started to incorporate smaller

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Speaker 1: homes into the mix, which means they could compete with

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Speaker 1: the existing home sales market, which is much bigger, provides

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Speaker 1: a cheaper home, and has a geographic advantage over the

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Speaker 1: new home sales market. So that trend hopefully continues UH

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Speaker 1: one and many years out because they were just building

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Speaker 1: bigger and bigger homes and then they got the memo

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Speaker 1: after thank you got it, Hey, Logan, thank you so

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Speaker 1: much for joining us. We appreciate it as always Logan

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Speaker 1: multi Shami housing data analysts also columnists for the Housing

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Speaker 1: Wire based in Irvine, California, giving us some more color

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Speaker 1: Vanny on what has been a real bright spot in

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Speaker 1: the US economy, that being housing for sure, and it's

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Speaker 1: definitely helped keep things afloat. You have to wonder about

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Speaker 1: about urban housing, hol does that come back at some

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Speaker 1: point and if so, when, Yeah, exactly right. So there's

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Speaker 1: been that migration out of some some urban centers into

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Speaker 1: the suburbia. It's been an interesting issue to follow this

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Speaker 1: time of the week. To bring in our Laurence So,

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Speaker 1: our social professor of Emergency Medicine at the Johns Hopkins

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Speaker 1: School of Medicine. We should note that the Bloomberg School

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Speaker 1: of Public Health is supported by Michael R. Bloomberg, founder

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg LP and Bloomberg Philanthropies. Lauren, thanks so much for

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Speaker 1: joining us. We always appreciate talking to you on this

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Speaker 1: weekly segment. I guess what's new here is I guess

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Speaker 1: the re emergence, if you will, of uh Dr Anthony Fauci.

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Speaker 1: What does that mean to the folks do you think

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Speaker 1: in the healthcare industry? I think it's it starts a

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Speaker 1: sort of with the breath of relief and a reminder

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Speaker 1: that we're going to I get back to the hard

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Speaker 1: work of using um and creating science to really come

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Speaker 1: combat this pandemic. It's a place that we sort of

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Speaker 1: in the responses, haven't felt comfortable in for a long time.

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Speaker 1: And I think I can speak for many, if not all,

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Speaker 1: my colleagues to say that it was really great to

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Speaker 1: see him sort of not mince words, to get up

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Speaker 1: there and say that they're that you know, he he

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Speaker 1: is excited to be able to say that if he

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Speaker 1: doesn't know something, he doesn't know something, and UM that

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Speaker 1: there's going to be a change in how we approached

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Speaker 1: science with this new administration. Yeah, absolutely, not mincing his words.

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Speaker 1: I want to point of a story that has just emerged,

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Speaker 1: and it's about Wall Street leaders Lauren making the case

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Speaker 1: to allow them be part of the vaccine distribution, particularly

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Speaker 1: in New York City, but also maybe beyond New York City.

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Speaker 1: It definitely New York State Goldman J. If you Morgan

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Speaker 1: KK or among firms on the call with the state

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Speaker 1: asking if they can, if they can provide distribution and logistics.

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Speaker 1: Is this wise? I mean, it's obviously on these companies

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Speaker 1: interests to try to do this, But I mean, is

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Speaker 1: it the best way to go? Or is it is

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Speaker 1: it maybe getting into some dangerous territory. I think one

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Speaker 1: of the things that we have to do is be

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Speaker 1: careful that we don't UM, you know, throw too many

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Speaker 1: different types of options into how we do vaccine rollout. UM.

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Speaker 1: We have clear and UM official recommendations from a C

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Speaker 1: I P on who should get vaccine when and UM

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Speaker 1: what the priority groups are. I think UM the Administration

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Speaker 1: does see a plan forward to accelerate vaccine distribution and

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Speaker 1: UM that includes both UM upticks in in manufacturing and

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Speaker 1: infrastructure and things like that, but also in public messaging

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Speaker 1: around vaccine. And so I think the logistics and the

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Speaker 1: sort of UH quality improvement side would be really valuable.

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Speaker 1: But I also think that UM we have to be

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Speaker 1: careful that we don't just continue really change the plan

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Speaker 1: right as new plans are getting started and starting to streamline,

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Speaker 1: because there's gonna always be that team when a new

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Speaker 1: plan isn't implemented, of the learning curve and getting it

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Speaker 1: in place and getting the infrastructure around it. Um. But

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Speaker 1: we can't switch the plan every time. We don't see

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Speaker 1: that immediate upticking speed. So we we really have to

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Speaker 1: give the new strategy the opportunity to play out and

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00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:29,479
Speaker 1: and get vaccine into the arms of the people. Lauren rightfully,

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Speaker 1: So the vaccines or it seemed to be front and

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00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:34,680
Speaker 1: center on peoples in people's minds. Talk to us though

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00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:40,560
Speaker 1: about therapeutics treating people that are in hospital with the virus.

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00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:43,119
Speaker 1: Where are we now? How are we How is it

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00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:46,440
Speaker 1: different from saying, you know, almost a year ago, um,

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00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:51,080
Speaker 1: I think this is the place that we sounds like

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00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:54,280
Speaker 1: we might have lost Lauren. If she's there, she can

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00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:59,600
Speaker 1: absolutely chime in again. But a very interesting conversation there.

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00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:02,040
Speaker 1: Poll just as we see that Italy's numbers have begun

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00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:04,399
Speaker 1: to drop after five weeks of gains and the R

444
00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:06,520
Speaker 1: right is below one again, so that is a little

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00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:09,840
Speaker 1: bit of a good sign at least four some countries. Yeah, absolutely,

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00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:11,520
Speaker 1: And I think you know, I was, I was asking

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Speaker 1: Lauren sour about the therapeutics that you know, presumably they've

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00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:18,640
Speaker 1: made some enhancements there and maybe that will factor through

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00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:21,680
Speaker 1: in uh in some of the statistics as we see

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00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:24,320
Speaker 1: going forward here. So UM, but I think we have

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00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:26,919
Speaker 1: Lauren back. So Lauren, I was asking about therapeutics kind

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00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:30,760
Speaker 1: of where we now versus when we started this. Yeah. Absolutely,

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00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:32,199
Speaker 1: I mean I think this is a place where we

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00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:36,840
Speaker 1: would have liked to see UM improvements a little further along, UM,

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00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:41,040
Speaker 1: some more options and our toolkit so to speak. UM,

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00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:44,720
Speaker 1: the you know, rem deservere. Some of the steroid options

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00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:47,280
Speaker 1: that we have are are promising, and I do think

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00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:50,480
Speaker 1: our standard of care has improved significantly in the ability

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00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:53,440
Speaker 1: to effectively care for to manage these types of patients.

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Speaker 1: I think one thing we would like to see, UM

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00:26:56,680 --> 00:26:59,359
Speaker 1: is some more work in the repurpose drug space and

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00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:02,640
Speaker 1: that that your full randomized control trial design. We learned

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Speaker 1: a lot from some of the trials coming out of

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00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:06,720
Speaker 1: the UK, but we would like to see those drugs

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00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:11,320
Speaker 1: implemented into a true placebo controlled our CT so we

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00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:13,639
Speaker 1: can better understand them. I think this is a space

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Speaker 1: for continue. We're going to continue to do a lot

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00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:19,040
Speaker 1: of work, but it is going to be UM. It's

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00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:23,280
Speaker 1: going to be a long haul. I mean, we important

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00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:25,040
Speaker 1: for the study design. We still have a lot of

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00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:26,960
Speaker 1: COVID patients. But I think the hope is that as

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00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:30,359
Speaker 1: the patients decline UM with the vaccine, that will have

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00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:34,000
Speaker 1: fewer patients enrolling in studies, which UM is great for

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00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:36,600
Speaker 1: the patient population, but not so great for the study

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00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:40,720
Speaker 1: design of these therapeutics. So it's going to be a drag. Briefly, Lauren,

476
00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:43,280
Speaker 1: the Biden administration came in instead of going to be

477
00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:45,159
Speaker 1: a priority, and you know that it was going to

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00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:50,480
Speaker 1: overhauld the way vaccine distribution so one had been being done.

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00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:53,480
Speaker 1: Are there countries that are doing it better? Though? Can

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00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:57,360
Speaker 1: you point to examples? And I think there are countries

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00:27:57,400 --> 00:27:59,240
Speaker 1: that are doing a really good job here. I think

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00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:01,840
Speaker 1: Israel is an example that's been held up a lot

483
00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:06,040
Speaker 1: UM as really being successful in this space. I think

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00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:08,119
Speaker 1: one of the challenges in the US is that we

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00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:10,760
Speaker 1: don't have a nationalized health system, which some of the

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00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:12,840
Speaker 1: other countries that have been able to do this better.

487
00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:16,800
Speaker 1: UM really can leverage, right because they have one electronic

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00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:19,200
Speaker 1: health record, they have a system that can move patients

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00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:22,399
Speaker 1: more um efficiently, and then they can leverage things like

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00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:26,560
Speaker 1: UM their military or their versions of national national guards

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Speaker 1: to to really broadly have a systematic approach that that

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Speaker 1: affects the entire health system. Lauren, thank you so much,

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Speaker 1: as always, Lauren Sour of Johns Hopkins, thanks for listening

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Speaker 1: to Boomberg Markets podcast. You can subscribe and listen to

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00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:45,920
Speaker 1: interviews at Apple Podcasts or whatever a podcast platform you prefer.

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00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:49,920
Speaker 1: I'm Bonnie Quinn. I'm on Twitter any Quinn. Paul Sweeney,

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00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:52,560
Speaker 1: I'm on Twitter at pt Sweeney. Before the podcast, you

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00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:55,000
Speaker 1: can always catch us worldwide at Bloomberg Radio