1 00:00:06,440 --> 00:00:10,840 Speaker 1: It's five am in Portland, Oregon, when doctor Jen Betts's 2 00:00:11,080 --> 00:00:16,120 Speaker 1: phone starts buzzing. At first, it's just a couple of notifications, 3 00:00:17,520 --> 00:00:20,680 Speaker 1: then more a cascade of alerts. 4 00:00:21,680 --> 00:00:24,959 Speaker 2: I woke up at five o'clock or so in the 5 00:00:25,000 --> 00:00:31,720 Speaker 2: morning with my phone just going off crazy boom boom boom. 6 00:00:31,760 --> 00:00:35,440 Speaker 1: Half asleep, she reaches for her phone and scrolls through 7 00:00:35,479 --> 00:00:40,960 Speaker 1: the flood of texts. It's February twenty fourth, twenty twenty two. 8 00:00:41,479 --> 00:00:44,159 Speaker 2: Everybody was texting and saying, you know, Russia had just 9 00:00:44,200 --> 00:00:45,240 Speaker 2: invaded Ukraine. 10 00:00:45,600 --> 00:00:50,159 Speaker 1: For Jen, this isn't just breaking news. Ukraine is like 11 00:00:50,280 --> 00:00:51,400 Speaker 1: her second home. 12 00:00:51,680 --> 00:00:53,160 Speaker 2: So it was a very scary moment. 13 00:00:53,720 --> 00:00:58,600 Speaker 1: Jen starts texting her friends there, checking in anxious for replies, 14 00:00:59,280 --> 00:01:01,639 Speaker 1: but her message just hang unread. 15 00:01:02,160 --> 00:01:04,680 Speaker 2: It was very difficult trying to get information a long 16 00:01:04,760 --> 00:01:07,120 Speaker 2: moment until we were able to find out what's going on. 17 00:01:07,880 --> 00:01:12,320 Speaker 1: Later, she would watch CCTV footage that explained. 18 00:01:11,760 --> 00:01:14,480 Speaker 2: Why everything was cut off. The first thing they did 19 00:01:14,600 --> 00:01:15,840 Speaker 2: was cut off all communication. 20 00:01:18,160 --> 00:01:23,160 Speaker 1: The camera catches tanks barreling down a road outside Chernobyl. 21 00:01:23,680 --> 00:01:28,360 Speaker 1: Plumes of diesel smoke curl into the air. One after another, 22 00:01:28,920 --> 00:01:34,080 Speaker 1: Armored vehicles rolled through a Russian convoy stretching for miles, 23 00:01:34,760 --> 00:01:40,320 Speaker 1: armored trucks, fuel tankers, missile launchers, and then a dog 24 00:01:40,640 --> 00:01:44,960 Speaker 1: pokes its nose out from the barren woods peers across 25 00:01:45,040 --> 00:01:52,120 Speaker 1: the road, ghostly white, small tail wagging nervously as it 26 00:01:52,200 --> 00:01:58,040 Speaker 1: weaves between tanks. Jen leans closer into her screen, her 27 00:01:58,080 --> 00:02:02,000 Speaker 1: eyes flicker with recognition. She knows this dog. 28 00:02:02,560 --> 00:02:07,600 Speaker 2: Her name is Snow, and so this one particular dog 29 00:02:07,880 --> 00:02:10,720 Speaker 2: we see her running across the street, obviously very confused 30 00:02:10,720 --> 00:02:11,600 Speaker 2: as to what's going on. 31 00:02:14,280 --> 00:02:17,840 Speaker 1: Snow is one of hundreds of strays living in the 32 00:02:17,880 --> 00:02:25,480 Speaker 1: shadow of history's worst nuclear disaster, and Jen, a retired veterinarian, 33 00:02:26,040 --> 00:02:27,280 Speaker 1: is their lifeline. 34 00:02:27,680 --> 00:02:31,520 Speaker 2: I'm the veterinarian medical director for the Dogs of Chernobyl program. 35 00:02:32,000 --> 00:02:38,919 Speaker 1: You know that Chernobyl, the radioactive, post apocalyptic wasteland abandoned 36 00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:45,000 Speaker 1: by humans after history's worst nuclear disaster some thirty nine 37 00:02:45,160 --> 00:02:51,160 Speaker 1: years ago. Since twenty seventeen, Jen has volunteered with the 38 00:02:51,360 --> 00:02:57,120 Speaker 1: Clean Futures Fund, a nonprofit dedicated to helping communities affected 39 00:02:57,200 --> 00:03:03,200 Speaker 1: by the Chernobyl disaster. Of the mission is to vaccinate, sterilize, 40 00:03:03,280 --> 00:03:09,240 Speaker 1: and administer medicine to Chernobyls stray dogs, the descendants of 41 00:03:09,400 --> 00:03:11,760 Speaker 1: pets abandoned decades ago. 42 00:03:13,160 --> 00:03:16,160 Speaker 2: This is an industrial area, this is a nuclear power plant. 43 00:03:16,200 --> 00:03:19,520 Speaker 2: This is not a place where dogs should be roaming 44 00:03:19,560 --> 00:03:23,360 Speaker 2: around freely. And so right now we have this situation 45 00:03:23,480 --> 00:03:27,800 Speaker 2: where they are just here and they are multiplying. But 46 00:03:28,520 --> 00:03:31,600 Speaker 2: that's the hand they were dealt, and that's where they live, 47 00:03:31,680 --> 00:03:34,800 Speaker 2: and we try to provide them the best comfortable place 48 00:03:34,840 --> 00:03:36,960 Speaker 2: that they can have considering where they are. 49 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:43,400 Speaker 1: Dogs like snow, suffer harsh winters, are preyed on by wolves, 50 00:03:43,600 --> 00:03:48,560 Speaker 1: and yes must deal with radioactive fallout from one of 51 00:03:48,560 --> 00:03:53,840 Speaker 1: the world's worst man made disasters. Now, with Russian troops 52 00:03:53,920 --> 00:03:59,160 Speaker 1: occupying the site, Jen had only one thought, how do 53 00:03:59,280 --> 00:04:10,880 Speaker 1: I get back there? Welcome to very special episodes and 54 00:04:11,040 --> 00:04:15,840 Speaker 1: I heart original podcast. I'm your host, Danish Schwartz and 55 00:04:16,120 --> 00:04:18,640 Speaker 1: this is the Dogs of Chernobyl. 56 00:04:23,320 --> 00:04:27,120 Speaker 3: Welcome back to very special episodes. She's Danish Schwartz. Hey, 57 00:04:27,360 --> 00:04:28,320 Speaker 3: he's Aaron Burnett. 58 00:04:28,400 --> 00:04:28,800 Speaker 4: What up? 59 00:04:28,920 --> 00:04:33,200 Speaker 3: I'm Jason English Now and Lucas Riley first pitched this story. 60 00:04:33,600 --> 00:04:36,800 Speaker 3: I think I still believed some of the viral headlines 61 00:04:36,880 --> 00:04:40,480 Speaker 3: that the Dogs of Chernobyl have superpowers and the laws 62 00:04:40,520 --> 00:04:44,360 Speaker 3: of biology don't apply to them, But as we'll come 63 00:04:44,400 --> 00:04:46,280 Speaker 3: to learn, some of that was a little overblown. 64 00:04:46,960 --> 00:04:48,400 Speaker 4: I just want to go on record. 65 00:04:48,160 --> 00:04:51,560 Speaker 3: Before we begin. These are still very good dogs and 66 00:04:51,600 --> 00:04:52,640 Speaker 3: they should be celebrated. 67 00:04:52,760 --> 00:04:54,279 Speaker 4: Yes, they would be rated highly. 68 00:04:54,360 --> 00:04:57,400 Speaker 1: They're good dogs. All dogs are good dogs, but these 69 00:04:57,400 --> 00:04:58,679 Speaker 1: are especially good dogs. 70 00:04:58,800 --> 00:04:59,320 Speaker 4: Completely. 71 00:04:59,360 --> 00:05:02,760 Speaker 5: Also, that's the phrase, the world's most radioactive dogs. That's 72 00:05:02,800 --> 00:05:05,160 Speaker 5: like a line of poetry, or maybe like an MF. 73 00:05:05,160 --> 00:05:07,239 Speaker 5: Doom lyric. I don't know, but I love that phrase. 74 00:05:07,480 --> 00:05:12,159 Speaker 3: The obvious media recommendation here is the HBO classic show Chernobyl, 75 00:05:12,480 --> 00:05:15,720 Speaker 3: which I've managed to not watch yet, and I will 76 00:05:15,760 --> 00:05:18,640 Speaker 3: rectify that. Have either of you read the book The 77 00:05:18,680 --> 00:05:20,840 Speaker 3: World Without Us by Alan Wiseman? 78 00:05:21,200 --> 00:05:24,359 Speaker 1: No, No, but that sounds intriguing, a very cool book. 79 00:05:24,440 --> 00:05:28,560 Speaker 3: It imagines what would happen if humans just disappeared from 80 00:05:28,560 --> 00:05:31,120 Speaker 3: the world, but all our stuff was left here, and 81 00:05:31,240 --> 00:05:35,240 Speaker 3: what would happen and how nature and water would reclaim things. 82 00:05:35,360 --> 00:05:37,360 Speaker 3: This story reminds me a little bit of that in 83 00:05:37,360 --> 00:05:39,279 Speaker 3: some regard, I could totally see. 84 00:05:39,200 --> 00:05:46,000 Speaker 1: That life finds a way to understand why all this matters. 85 00:05:46,120 --> 00:05:48,960 Speaker 1: I want to take you back to nineteen eighty six. 86 00:05:54,720 --> 00:05:58,360 Speaker 1: It's late to April in the Soviet Union. The city 87 00:05:58,480 --> 00:06:03,440 Speaker 1: of Ukrainian Creepyet is blooming roses dot the streets. People 88 00:06:03,520 --> 00:06:07,560 Speaker 1: are bustling about. A new amusement park with a ferris 89 00:06:07,560 --> 00:06:11,039 Speaker 1: wheel and bumper cars is almost ready to open for 90 00:06:11,200 --> 00:06:16,240 Speaker 1: May Day. Two decades earlier, creep Yet didn't even exist, 91 00:06:16,720 --> 00:06:22,280 Speaker 1: but now it's home to almost fifty thousand people. Scientists, engineers, 92 00:06:22,360 --> 00:06:27,719 Speaker 1: their families, with hotels, schools, and good jobs, lots of 93 00:06:27,760 --> 00:06:32,320 Speaker 1: them at the Chernobyl Nuclear Power Plant just two miles away. 94 00:06:34,920 --> 00:06:38,800 Speaker 1: But on Saturday, April twenty sixth at one twenty three 95 00:06:38,920 --> 00:06:42,880 Speaker 1: a m a safety test in the plant's reactor four 96 00:06:43,400 --> 00:06:49,680 Speaker 1: goes horribly wrong. The core overheats. Engineers scrambled to shut 97 00:06:49,720 --> 00:06:52,920 Speaker 1: it down, but the rods to cool the system fail. 98 00:06:53,520 --> 00:06:59,839 Speaker 1: Steam builds to catastrophic levels. The reactor got hotter and hotter, 99 00:07:00,560 --> 00:07:10,240 Speaker 1: and then two explosions tear through the reactor. Steel and 100 00:07:10,520 --> 00:07:17,000 Speaker 1: concrete fly like shrapnel. Two workers are killed immediately. Radioactive 101 00:07:17,080 --> 00:07:22,440 Speaker 1: particles caesium, iodine, strontium rise into the night sky over 102 00:07:22,600 --> 00:07:26,280 Speaker 1: Ukraine and Belarus. But in prip Yet, no one is 103 00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:31,600 Speaker 1: told what's happening. Citizens woke up that weekend like any other. 104 00:07:32,160 --> 00:07:37,640 Speaker 1: Children played outside adults walked to the market, babushkas hung 105 00:07:37,800 --> 00:07:43,760 Speaker 1: laundry to dry, unaware that invisible radioactive dust was settling 106 00:07:43,880 --> 00:07:48,440 Speaker 1: on their clothes, hair, and skin, until eleven a m 107 00:07:48,640 --> 00:07:52,400 Speaker 1: On Sunday, when the city loudspeakers crackled to. 108 00:07:52,480 --> 00:07:57,920 Speaker 3: Life venuemania, mneumania, mneumonia, mneumonia, A. 109 00:07:57,880 --> 00:08:05,240 Speaker 1: Little faint and eerie at first attention, attention, there's an emergency, 110 00:08:05,280 --> 00:08:11,040 Speaker 1: But by then it was already too late. Shut up. 111 00:08:13,360 --> 00:08:17,600 Speaker 1: Just a few miles away, the smoldering reactor had released 112 00:08:17,760 --> 00:08:22,280 Speaker 1: fifty to one hundred and eighty five million curies of 113 00:08:22,480 --> 00:08:28,440 Speaker 1: radio nucleotides, the same amount of radioactive material as four 114 00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:30,200 Speaker 1: hundred Hiroshima bones. 115 00:08:30,760 --> 00:08:36,080 Speaker 4: Who knew at. 116 00:08:34,720 --> 00:08:40,200 Speaker 1: Buses pour into the city, women, men and children pile inside. 117 00:08:40,520 --> 00:08:45,800 Speaker 1: In roughly three hours, almost the entire town empties. Families 118 00:08:45,840 --> 00:08:49,520 Speaker 1: are told pack light and leave your pets at home. 119 00:08:49,840 --> 00:08:51,640 Speaker 2: They were told they were going to be gone for 120 00:08:51,679 --> 00:08:54,720 Speaker 2: three days. To not take anything. You weren't allowed to 121 00:08:54,720 --> 00:08:56,680 Speaker 2: take your dogs. Just pack stuff for three. 122 00:08:56,600 --> 00:09:01,520 Speaker 1: Days, believing they'd soon return. Many left behind bowls of 123 00:09:01,559 --> 00:09:04,360 Speaker 1: food and water out for their animals. 124 00:09:04,320 --> 00:09:06,360 Speaker 2: But they were never allowed back. 125 00:09:08,240 --> 00:09:14,440 Speaker 1: Crepiet became a ghost town. Overnight, but in homes and apartments, 126 00:09:14,960 --> 00:09:21,400 Speaker 1: countless pets weight, dogs, wine and closed doors, cats pace 127 00:09:21,559 --> 00:09:28,360 Speaker 1: along windowsills. Some animals wander onto the empty streets confused. Meanwhile, 128 00:09:28,400 --> 00:09:32,720 Speaker 1: the Soviet government tries to stop the disaster from snowballing. 129 00:09:33,440 --> 00:09:37,760 Speaker 1: Helicopters pour sand to stop the fire. They build a 130 00:09:37,920 --> 00:09:43,920 Speaker 1: concrete sarcophagus around the reactor to contain the fallout, and 131 00:09:44,200 --> 00:09:47,120 Speaker 1: Soviet troops arrive with a grim task. 132 00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:50,559 Speaker 2: The government went in and tried to kill all of 133 00:09:50,600 --> 00:09:53,360 Speaker 2: the animals to prevent spread of the radiation. 134 00:09:54,280 --> 00:09:59,840 Speaker 1: Soldiers armed with rifles sweep through Prepiet. They shoot dogs 135 00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:05,520 Speaker 1: and cats on site. It's a brutal, haunting scene. But 136 00:10:05,640 --> 00:10:09,440 Speaker 1: the plan to cull all the pets doesn't work. 137 00:10:10,120 --> 00:10:12,080 Speaker 2: A lot of them ran off into the woods and 138 00:10:12,120 --> 00:10:14,160 Speaker 2: weren't able to be killed. And since then they have 139 00:10:14,280 --> 00:10:18,120 Speaker 2: been living in this area and breeding, dying and reproducing. 140 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:22,440 Speaker 2: And so that's where these dogs came from. 141 00:10:24,920 --> 00:10:29,400 Speaker 1: These are the ancestors of today's stray dogs of Chernobyl 142 00:10:30,200 --> 00:10:34,960 Speaker 1: generations have come and gone in this radioactive wasteland. They 143 00:10:35,120 --> 00:10:40,120 Speaker 1: endure brutal winters and disease. They fend off wolves and 144 00:10:40,280 --> 00:10:45,160 Speaker 1: bears lurking in the forest they scavenge for food, relying 145 00:10:45,280 --> 00:10:48,720 Speaker 1: mostly on the humans still working at the power plant. 146 00:10:49,520 --> 00:10:53,080 Speaker 1: By the time gen Bets first came to Chernobyl in 147 00:10:53,160 --> 00:10:58,560 Speaker 1: twenty seventeen, there was an estimated one thousand strays living 148 00:10:58,640 --> 00:11:03,080 Speaker 1: in the exclusion zone that's the almost twenty mile radius 149 00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:08,000 Speaker 1: surrounding the power plant. The dogs split into two packs 150 00:11:08,040 --> 00:11:12,240 Speaker 1: within the zone. One lives near the power plant, another 151 00:11:12,480 --> 00:11:15,720 Speaker 1: in the town of Chernobyl City, just a few miles away. 152 00:11:16,440 --> 00:11:19,040 Speaker 2: So it's Ukrainian law that nothing can be removed from 153 00:11:19,080 --> 00:11:21,640 Speaker 2: the Chernobyl Exclusion Zone, and that includes dogs. 154 00:11:22,280 --> 00:11:26,720 Speaker 1: And for good reason. It's one of the most radioactively 155 00:11:26,800 --> 00:11:29,200 Speaker 1: contaminated places on the planet. 156 00:11:29,720 --> 00:11:32,640 Speaker 2: These dogs, they roam around, they roll around in the dirt, 157 00:11:32,679 --> 00:11:34,760 Speaker 2: they have it in their fur, they are ingesting it. 158 00:11:35,280 --> 00:11:39,040 Speaker 2: There's particles of graphite around on the ground and down 159 00:11:39,080 --> 00:11:41,520 Speaker 2: in the dirt, and so these animals are ingesting this 160 00:11:41,600 --> 00:11:44,120 Speaker 2: and once ingested, it does get absorbed into the bones. 161 00:11:44,800 --> 00:11:48,640 Speaker 1: And like everything else around Chernobyl, the dogs can be 162 00:11:48,760 --> 00:11:50,359 Speaker 1: radioactive too. 163 00:11:50,559 --> 00:11:56,360 Speaker 2: I have puppies where the radiation isotopes were embedded in 164 00:11:56,440 --> 00:11:58,600 Speaker 2: their skull, so no matter how much I tried to 165 00:11:58,760 --> 00:12:01,920 Speaker 2: wash them, we couldn't we could not get it out. 166 00:12:02,480 --> 00:12:07,400 Speaker 1: For years, Jen made routine trips into this restricted area 167 00:12:07,480 --> 00:12:13,240 Speaker 1: as a volunteer veterinarian. Each visit requires careful planning and 168 00:12:13,440 --> 00:12:14,600 Speaker 1: safety protocols. 169 00:12:14,920 --> 00:12:17,520 Speaker 2: When we're in the zone, we wear a docimitter where 170 00:12:17,520 --> 00:12:19,840 Speaker 2: we are tracked the entire time we are there, and 171 00:12:19,880 --> 00:12:22,160 Speaker 2: they take our measurements before we go into the area. 172 00:12:22,400 --> 00:12:24,120 Speaker 2: When we come back out of the area, we take 173 00:12:24,160 --> 00:12:27,679 Speaker 2: those measurements and those measurements are kept in a database 174 00:12:27,800 --> 00:12:29,920 Speaker 2: where molt radiation is cumulative. 175 00:12:30,320 --> 00:12:35,760 Speaker 1: Surprisingly, the air in Chernobyl is not actually that bad. Today. 176 00:12:35,960 --> 00:12:40,560 Speaker 1: Background radiation is similar to, if not less than, what 177 00:12:40,640 --> 00:12:44,720 Speaker 1: you'd be exposed to during a commercial flight. The problem 178 00:12:44,960 --> 00:12:49,920 Speaker 1: is what's on the ground. Radioactive particles cling to soil, 179 00:12:50,520 --> 00:12:55,480 Speaker 1: some off the charts hotspots more than one thousand times 180 00:12:55,679 --> 00:12:58,080 Speaker 1: normal levels are scattered about. 181 00:12:58,920 --> 00:13:01,720 Speaker 2: You don't want to sit on the ground. You don't 182 00:13:01,720 --> 00:13:03,640 Speaker 2: want to put your hands in your mouth. If there's 183 00:13:03,679 --> 00:13:07,839 Speaker 2: a huge dusty area, you want to wear protection for 184 00:13:07,960 --> 00:13:10,199 Speaker 2: your eyes in your mouth. I'll put something over your faith. 185 00:13:10,679 --> 00:13:14,200 Speaker 1: Even with those dangers, Gen's work has kept the dogs 186 00:13:14,320 --> 00:13:19,559 Speaker 1: healthier and living longer than anyone expected. But in February 187 00:13:19,679 --> 00:13:28,679 Speaker 1: of twenty twenty two, everything changed. That's when the Russian 188 00:13:28,720 --> 00:13:31,640 Speaker 1: convoy rolled through the exclusion zone. 189 00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:36,200 Speaker 2: When the Russians invaded Chernobyl, they brought their tanks through there. 190 00:13:36,240 --> 00:13:39,040 Speaker 2: They stirred up the ground. They caused a lot of issues, 191 00:13:39,240 --> 00:13:41,440 Speaker 2: and things that were lying dormant has been put into 192 00:13:41,440 --> 00:13:42,040 Speaker 2: the air again. 193 00:13:42,640 --> 00:13:46,840 Speaker 1: The dogs had to breathe that contaminated air, and so 194 00:13:46,920 --> 00:13:52,080 Speaker 1: did the Russians. The invading army didn't just pass through Chernobyl. 195 00:13:52,480 --> 00:13:54,960 Speaker 1: They raised their flag over the Red Forest. 196 00:13:55,600 --> 00:13:59,640 Speaker 2: The Red Forest is an area in right outside of 197 00:13:59,840 --> 00:14:03,960 Speaker 2: the power plants where most of the nuclear fallout fell. 198 00:14:04,440 --> 00:14:06,280 Speaker 2: And so what it did was it killed all of 199 00:14:06,320 --> 00:14:09,199 Speaker 2: the trees and turned all of their leaves red as 200 00:14:09,240 --> 00:14:09,880 Speaker 2: they were dying. 201 00:14:10,679 --> 00:14:15,080 Speaker 1: After the Chernobyl disaster, the Red Forest was bulldozed two 202 00:14:15,160 --> 00:14:19,240 Speaker 1: Russian soldiers arriving in twenty twenty two, the open ground 203 00:14:19,400 --> 00:14:22,040 Speaker 1: looked like a good place to set up camp. 204 00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:26,280 Speaker 2: They were there for thirty days. They were sleeping in 205 00:14:26,320 --> 00:14:29,880 Speaker 2: the area, They were cooking their food, they were smoking, 206 00:14:30,040 --> 00:14:32,800 Speaker 2: they were inhaling all of the dirt and fumes. 207 00:14:33,360 --> 00:14:38,080 Speaker 1: The soldiers dug foxholes and bunkers with heavy machinery. Some 208 00:14:38,200 --> 00:14:42,000 Speaker 1: reports indicate that they set parts of the nearby forest 209 00:14:42,120 --> 00:14:47,760 Speaker 1: on fire, releasing clouds of radioactive smoke into their lungs, and. 210 00:14:47,800 --> 00:14:51,000 Speaker 2: So they probably did get a significant amount that probably 211 00:14:51,080 --> 00:14:54,040 Speaker 2: will cause some problems later in life should they live 212 00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:54,560 Speaker 2: that long. 213 00:14:55,280 --> 00:14:58,800 Speaker 1: The Russian troops weren't the only humans at risk. In 214 00:14:58,840 --> 00:15:02,920 Speaker 1: twenty twenty two, hundreds of people still worked on remediation 215 00:15:03,160 --> 00:15:05,320 Speaker 1: and cleanup at the abandoned plant. 216 00:15:05,960 --> 00:15:08,080 Speaker 2: So they rounded up all of the workers and they 217 00:15:08,080 --> 00:15:11,520 Speaker 2: put them in a bunker and made them stay in there. 218 00:15:11,520 --> 00:15:12,480 Speaker 2: They weren't allowed out. 219 00:15:12,920 --> 00:15:17,520 Speaker 1: About three hundred workers were held captive, forced into an 220 00:15:17,600 --> 00:15:22,960 Speaker 1: underground bunker at gunpoint. They survived by rationing food and 221 00:15:23,120 --> 00:15:28,640 Speaker 1: sleeping on tabletops and the dogs. In peacetime, most of 222 00:15:28,640 --> 00:15:32,320 Speaker 1: them had relied on the generosity of those workers for handouts. 223 00:15:32,680 --> 00:15:35,480 Speaker 2: Some of the workers were able to sneak some food 224 00:15:35,520 --> 00:15:37,560 Speaker 2: out to the dogs, but most of them were not 225 00:15:37,680 --> 00:15:40,920 Speaker 2: able to be fed, so they just sat around and 226 00:15:40,960 --> 00:15:42,640 Speaker 2: waited and waited and starved. 227 00:15:45,320 --> 00:15:52,680 Speaker 1: Gen two thousands of miles away could do nothing but wait. Then, 228 00:15:52,920 --> 00:15:58,080 Speaker 1: in early April, the Russian army withdrew from Chernobyl. Once 229 00:15:58,120 --> 00:16:01,160 Speaker 1: the captive workers at the power plant stepped out of 230 00:16:01,200 --> 00:16:04,960 Speaker 1: their makeshift prison, they were shocked to see the half 231 00:16:05,120 --> 00:16:06,360 Speaker 1: starved dogs. 232 00:16:06,960 --> 00:16:09,840 Speaker 2: When they finally were liberated, the dogs were just a 233 00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:10,840 Speaker 2: skin and bones. 234 00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:15,480 Speaker 1: Photos posted by the workers eventually landed in front of 235 00:16:15,560 --> 00:16:17,240 Speaker 1: gen and. 236 00:16:17,040 --> 00:16:19,160 Speaker 2: That's when I decided that I needed to get there 237 00:16:19,240 --> 00:16:20,280 Speaker 2: as soon as possible. 238 00:16:30,400 --> 00:16:33,720 Speaker 1: In the spring of twenty twenty two, doctor Jen Betts 239 00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:38,520 Speaker 1: began making plans to return to Ukraine. This time, it 240 00:16:38,560 --> 00:16:43,040 Speaker 1: wouldn't be a routine trip. The country was under siege. 241 00:16:43,560 --> 00:16:49,000 Speaker 1: Missiles pulverized apartment buildings, air raid sirens howled through the night. 242 00:16:49,680 --> 00:16:56,120 Speaker 1: Even so, she started assembling a team volunteers, veterinarians, people 243 00:16:56,240 --> 00:17:00,240 Speaker 1: willing to risk entering a radioactive war zone for the 244 00:17:00,280 --> 00:17:03,720 Speaker 1: sake of some stray dogs, and she needed them to 245 00:17:03,840 --> 00:17:07,959 Speaker 1: understand what they'd be walking into. It turns out that 246 00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:13,080 Speaker 1: the dogs of Chernobyl are a scientific mystery. Since nineteen 247 00:17:13,160 --> 00:17:19,240 Speaker 1: eighty six, they've endured exposure to radioactive elements, heavy metals, pesticides, 248 00:17:19,640 --> 00:17:24,760 Speaker 1: and other contaminants. Scientists have long wondered how have these 249 00:17:24,800 --> 00:17:30,520 Speaker 1: dogs survived for so many generations in such a toxic place. 250 00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:34,800 Speaker 1: To find out, Jen teamed up with researchers in the 251 00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:39,760 Speaker 1: US and Ukraine. In twenty eighteen, she began collecting blood 252 00:17:39,760 --> 00:17:43,440 Speaker 1: samples from the dogs and sending vials to labs in 253 00:17:43,480 --> 00:17:47,000 Speaker 1: the United States. One of those labs is home to 254 00:17:47,080 --> 00:17:48,439 Speaker 1: doctor Meghan Dylan. 255 00:17:49,200 --> 00:17:53,360 Speaker 6: I got my PhD in the Genetics and Genomics program 256 00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:57,119 Speaker 6: at NC State, where I worked with the Dogs of 257 00:17:57,200 --> 00:17:58,120 Speaker 6: Chernobyl project. 258 00:17:58,720 --> 00:18:02,240 Speaker 1: For the last several years, Megan has been studying the 259 00:18:02,320 --> 00:18:06,080 Speaker 1: DNA of Chernobyl's dogs to better understand the effects of 260 00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:09,080 Speaker 1: toxic exposure on their genetic makeup. 261 00:18:09,840 --> 00:18:14,480 Speaker 6: We'd have this opportunity to see about thirty generations down 262 00:18:14,560 --> 00:18:18,960 Speaker 6: the line what these different contaminants can do to the 263 00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:20,440 Speaker 6: genome into populations. 264 00:18:21,280 --> 00:18:25,040 Speaker 1: With the help of scientists at Columbia Duke, the University 265 00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:29,680 Speaker 1: of South Carolina, and the National Genome Project, Megan would 266 00:18:29,720 --> 00:18:33,920 Speaker 1: map the dog's genome and compare their DNA to other 267 00:18:34,119 --> 00:18:37,360 Speaker 1: stray populations in Russia and Poland. 268 00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:41,240 Speaker 6: And we're able to kind of identify places where we 269 00:18:41,480 --> 00:18:44,359 Speaker 6: see these differences, and so we can start to see 270 00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:47,840 Speaker 6: banding patterns in the chromosomes, and we can start to 271 00:18:47,880 --> 00:18:53,320 Speaker 6: see potential aberrations or malformities in these chromosomes. 272 00:18:53,960 --> 00:18:58,000 Speaker 1: She and her colleagues published their findings in twenty twenty three. 273 00:18:58,760 --> 00:19:00,560 Speaker 1: The results were startling. 274 00:19:00,960 --> 00:19:05,160 Speaker 6: These dogs are genetically more different than we would have expected. 275 00:19:05,800 --> 00:19:10,760 Speaker 1: Remember, the dogs split into two packs. One lives near 276 00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:14,480 Speaker 1: the power plant, the second in town a few miles away. 277 00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:20,359 Speaker 1: Both groups had DNA significantly different from strays found in 278 00:19:20,480 --> 00:19:25,440 Speaker 1: Russia and Poland. What was more striking, the two packs 279 00:19:25,640 --> 00:19:30,320 Speaker 1: in Chernobyl were also genetically distinct from each other. 280 00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:34,200 Speaker 6: These dogs that were separated by hundreds and hundreds of 281 00:19:34,280 --> 00:19:37,440 Speaker 6: kilometers were actually more genetically similar to each other than 282 00:19:37,520 --> 00:19:41,040 Speaker 6: our two populations that are only sixteen kilometers apart. Work. 283 00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:44,000 Speaker 6: But we found that we do have this very high 284 00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:48,840 Speaker 6: degree of genetic differentiation, or just a high level of 285 00:19:48,920 --> 00:19:53,240 Speaker 6: differences in the genotypes for these two populations of dogs. 286 00:19:54,280 --> 00:19:57,320 Speaker 1: Now, that was a data point that Megan and her 287 00:19:57,359 --> 00:19:59,600 Speaker 1: colleagues wanted to study more deeply. 288 00:20:00,400 --> 00:20:02,840 Speaker 6: So we were very interested in identifying what may be 289 00:20:04,320 --> 00:20:08,000 Speaker 6: the driving force for this genetic differentiation. 290 00:20:09,080 --> 00:20:13,159 Speaker 1: They had their hunches. One possible explanation was that the 291 00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:15,960 Speaker 1: dogs could be some kind of mutants. 292 00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:20,040 Speaker 7: Super Survivors thought it was a possibility that we might 293 00:20:20,119 --> 00:20:24,560 Speaker 7: find some evidence of DNA mutations where the DNAs might 294 00:20:25,200 --> 00:20:29,360 Speaker 7: persist in a population and be passed down from parents 295 00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:31,640 Speaker 7: to offspring all the way down the line. 296 00:20:32,160 --> 00:20:35,439 Speaker 1: In twenty twenty three, they published their findings in the 297 00:20:35,520 --> 00:20:40,280 Speaker 1: journal Science Advances. The media pounced on the mutant. 298 00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:42,679 Speaker 6: Narrative after we published this paper. That was where a 299 00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:46,560 Speaker 6: lot of other minds went. It was based on these 300 00:20:46,920 --> 00:20:49,399 Speaker 6: genetic mutants that were living in Jernobyl. 301 00:20:50,240 --> 00:20:54,439 Speaker 1: The dogs had superpowers, they were immune to radioactivity, they 302 00:20:54,480 --> 00:20:58,520 Speaker 1: were evolving at warp speed. Behold the knine equivalent of 303 00:20:58,560 --> 00:21:03,240 Speaker 1: the Ninja turtles three eyed fish from the Simpsons. When 304 00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:06,440 Speaker 1: doctor Jen Betts, who's also an author on the study, 305 00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:09,520 Speaker 1: read this media coverage, she rolled her eyes. 306 00:21:10,280 --> 00:21:14,520 Speaker 2: One of the things that bothers me is the misconception 307 00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:16,960 Speaker 2: in the news media. You know, people write articles for 308 00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:19,720 Speaker 2: clickbait and to get you know, and there's catchy headlines 309 00:21:19,760 --> 00:21:24,480 Speaker 2: of the dogs are rapidly evolving and the dogs have superpowers, 310 00:21:24,600 --> 00:21:28,000 Speaker 2: or the wolves are immune to cancer, and none of 311 00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:29,240 Speaker 2: this is correct. 312 00:21:30,480 --> 00:21:33,720 Speaker 1: Over at NC State, Megan shakes her head at how 313 00:21:33,760 --> 00:21:35,960 Speaker 1: the press jumped to conclusions. 314 00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:39,200 Speaker 6: It's not like these dogs are turning into a new 315 00:21:39,280 --> 00:21:43,960 Speaker 6: species at this point. We're just finding that they're genetically 316 00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:46,440 Speaker 6: more different than we would have expected. 317 00:21:47,080 --> 00:21:51,200 Speaker 1: The real story of the dog's survival wasn't about science 318 00:21:51,240 --> 00:21:56,600 Speaker 1: fiction level mutations. The real story, Megan explains, might be 319 00:21:56,600 --> 00:22:06,480 Speaker 1: best illustrated by Victorian era moths. Back in nineteenth century England, 320 00:22:06,760 --> 00:22:11,800 Speaker 1: the peppered moth fluttered everywhere. Some had pale wings, some 321 00:22:12,160 --> 00:22:16,600 Speaker 1: had dark wings. But then it came the Industrial Revolution. 322 00:22:17,440 --> 00:22:21,600 Speaker 6: But during this industrial age in England start to see 323 00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:25,040 Speaker 6: a lot more soot accumulating on trees, So the bark 324 00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:30,520 Speaker 6: is darker, and so we see this directional shift where 325 00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:35,520 Speaker 6: the darker moths are able to evade predators and survive 326 00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:39,040 Speaker 6: to reproduce better than those lighter moths that are more 327 00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:39,840 Speaker 6: easily seen. 328 00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:45,600 Speaker 1: Industrial areas became so riddled with soot that the dark 329 00:22:45,760 --> 00:22:50,200 Speaker 1: moths were blending into their environment, and unlike the pale moths, 330 00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:54,560 Speaker 1: living to tell about it, the dogs in Chernobyl might 331 00:22:54,680 --> 00:22:59,679 Speaker 1: have a similar story. Like the dark colored moths, the 332 00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:03,800 Speaker 1: dog dogs that survived the nineteen eighty six disaster may 333 00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:07,400 Speaker 1: have had a built in physical advantage that the other 334 00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:12,320 Speaker 1: dogs didn't have. The dogs without that advantage died. Those 335 00:23:12,359 --> 00:23:16,679 Speaker 1: that had it lived long enough to reproduce and pass 336 00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:21,760 Speaker 1: on their genes, a text bookcase of what's called directional selection. 337 00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:29,200 Speaker 6: It's possible that they have a better ability to repair 338 00:23:29,280 --> 00:23:34,280 Speaker 6: their DNA after it has been damaged by these radioactive 339 00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:37,800 Speaker 6: contaminants or the heavy metals, and so they're able to 340 00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:42,199 Speaker 6: better survive and reproduce than individuals that may have this 341 00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:45,480 Speaker 6: slower DNA repair response. 342 00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:50,760 Speaker 1: Hearing all this, you might be wondering, cool, Dana, but 343 00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:56,399 Speaker 1: why are scientists studying a bunch of radioactive stray dogs. Well, 344 00:23:56,480 --> 00:23:59,919 Speaker 1: it's to keep you, dear listener, healthy and alive. 345 00:24:00,359 --> 00:24:04,440 Speaker 6: We know that dogs can be this kind of canary 346 00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:08,040 Speaker 6: in the coal mine, and so they do have this 347 00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:11,560 Speaker 6: great deal of genetic and epidemiological similarity with humans. 348 00:24:12,119 --> 00:24:17,240 Speaker 1: Dogs and humans share a similar biology. Both species suffer 349 00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:21,679 Speaker 1: from many of the same diseases and cancers. Both species 350 00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:26,159 Speaker 1: routinely share the same environment too. Our pets breathe the 351 00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:29,560 Speaker 1: same air, play in the same house, and may even 352 00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:33,680 Speaker 1: sleep in the same bed as us. In fact, researchers 353 00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:37,479 Speaker 1: have found that dogs are a good predictor for human health. 354 00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:42,760 Speaker 1: If your dog gets cancer because of an environmental contaminant, 355 00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:45,640 Speaker 1: there's a good chance you might get sick from it too. 356 00:24:46,119 --> 00:24:49,399 Speaker 6: By studying these dogs, we really have the ability to 357 00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:54,400 Speaker 6: kind of infer possible responses and other species, especially including humans. 358 00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:58,359 Speaker 1: A dog's health can be a crystal ball into the 359 00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:03,040 Speaker 1: future of human health, and that's important. The World Health 360 00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:07,520 Speaker 1: Organization estimates that twenty three percent of all human deaths 361 00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:12,480 Speaker 1: are caused by risk factors in the environment, and right now, 362 00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:17,600 Speaker 1: over seventy million Americans live within just three miles of 363 00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:22,280 Speaker 1: a superfund site. The dogs of Chernobyl live in one 364 00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:29,200 Speaker 1: of the world's most stressful environments. It's riddled with radiation, pesticides, 365 00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:33,760 Speaker 1: heavy metals. They're helping us peer into the future of 366 00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:38,639 Speaker 1: human health and giving us time to develop treatments before 367 00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:39,440 Speaker 1: it's too late. 368 00:25:39,920 --> 00:25:45,080 Speaker 6: Harnessing the data from these species is really allowing us 369 00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:48,760 Speaker 6: to kind of accelerate these discoveries that will benefit both 370 00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:56,280 Speaker 6: dogs and humans. 371 00:25:56,600 --> 00:26:01,400 Speaker 1: Before the Russians abandoned Chernobyl in April twenty two, they 372 00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:05,240 Speaker 1: littered the area with booby traps like trip wires and 373 00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:10,640 Speaker 1: land mines. Jen Betts wanted to go anyway, but first 374 00:26:10,840 --> 00:26:17,200 Speaker 1: the dogs needed food and fast, so she contacted Andrew Simon, 375 00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:22,880 Speaker 1: a university professor and scientist who lives in Ukraine. Like Jen, 376 00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:26,199 Speaker 1: Andrew has been studying Chernobyl for years. 377 00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:28,960 Speaker 2: I spoke with him and said, you know, if you're 378 00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:32,280 Speaker 2: going to Chernobyl, can you please please bring some dog food. 379 00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:37,520 Speaker 1: Jen wired him funds to buy three hundred kilograms about 380 00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:42,280 Speaker 1: six hundred and sixty pounds of kibble. Andrew loaded it 381 00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:50,080 Speaker 1: into his trailer and set out for the exclusion zone. 382 00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:55,320 Speaker 1: The journey was harrowing, bombed out roads, burnt out vehicles. 383 00:26:55,960 --> 00:27:00,879 Speaker 1: Andrew nears a river and comes upon the mango remains 384 00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:07,479 Speaker 1: of a bridge. He spins around and tries a new route, 385 00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:13,159 Speaker 1: turning down another bombed out road, obstacles everywhere. Andrew improvises 386 00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:17,800 Speaker 1: it takes nine hours to make a trip that usually 387 00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:22,840 Speaker 1: takes an hour and a half. But finally Andrew arrives. 388 00:27:23,359 --> 00:27:26,119 Speaker 2: At that point he could get into Choble Town, but 389 00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:28,040 Speaker 2: he couldn't get all the way to the power plant, 390 00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:30,480 Speaker 2: and so we left all of the food at one 391 00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:31,560 Speaker 2: of the checkpoints there. 392 00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:36,240 Speaker 1: Andrew drops the food at a checkpoint and then Jen 393 00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:39,240 Speaker 1: messages a handful of power plant workers who will be 394 00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:42,840 Speaker 1: arriving by bus in a few days, asking them to 395 00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:46,000 Speaker 1: help move it those last few miles. 396 00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:48,919 Speaker 2: Even people that didn't like dogs, they were all helping. 397 00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:52,160 Speaker 2: It was I have pictures of all of the workers 398 00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:54,919 Speaker 2: on the bus with the bags of dog food all 399 00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:55,640 Speaker 2: in the aisles. 400 00:27:56,240 --> 00:28:00,520 Speaker 1: Meanwhile, Andrew scouts out the damage. Near the check point 401 00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:04,040 Speaker 1: is a science lab where the Dogs of Chernobyl program 402 00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:08,000 Speaker 1: keeps some of its supplies. He pops over to check 403 00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:10,560 Speaker 1: on it. Turns out the Russians had broken in. 404 00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:14,240 Speaker 2: They kicked in the doors, pried open the locks. 405 00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:18,719 Speaker 1: The room has been turned upside down. It's a mess. 406 00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:21,600 Speaker 2: It didn't destroy any they just stole. I thought it 407 00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:26,960 Speaker 2: was pretty hilarious that they They stole the coffee pot, 408 00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:32,680 Speaker 2: the microwave, the weed eater, the chainsaw, the lawn equipment, 409 00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:37,600 Speaker 2: but they left the microscopes and all of the expensive 410 00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:38,960 Speaker 2: scientific equipment. 411 00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:43,640 Speaker 1: Other officers around the power plant, however, weren't so lucky. 412 00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:49,080 Speaker 2: All of the offices throughout the interturnal, they were all destroyed. 413 00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:54,880 Speaker 1: Russians destroyed nearly seven hundred computers, plus a total of 414 00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:58,280 Speaker 1: one hundred and thirty five million dollars worth of equipment. 415 00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:03,920 Speaker 1: By June twenty twenty two, Jen couldn't wait any longer. 416 00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:07,400 Speaker 1: She had to see things with her own eyes, so 417 00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:15,840 Speaker 1: she booked it to the airport. Commercial flights into Ukraine 418 00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:20,719 Speaker 1: were grounded, so Jen landed in Poland and boarded a 419 00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:25,960 Speaker 1: lumbering eighteen hour train ride to Kiev. Just a few 420 00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:31,000 Speaker 1: months after the invasion. Jen turned up in Kiev. Passengers 421 00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:36,200 Speaker 1: sat in uneasy silence as conductors checked their documents. Jen 422 00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:40,320 Speaker 1: could immediately see and feel the human cost of war. 423 00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:45,560 Speaker 2: People are sad, people are scared. You hear air raid 424 00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:47,160 Speaker 2: sirens going off constantly. 425 00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:57,440 Speaker 1: In Kiev, Jen reunited with some of her fellow volunteers. 426 00:29:57,960 --> 00:30:01,200 Speaker 1: There was Andrew, who had helped bring all that dog food, 427 00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:06,480 Speaker 1: and there was a young Ukrainian lawyer named Vidim. For 428 00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:11,120 Speaker 1: Vadim Chernobyl was home. He was born in Pripyat, shortly 429 00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:15,400 Speaker 1: before Reactor number four exploded. His father still lived in 430 00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:19,280 Speaker 1: the region. He split his time shuttling between Kiev and 431 00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:23,560 Speaker 1: the exclusion zone. In twenty eighteen, he bumped into doctor 432 00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:26,600 Speaker 1: Betts while she was helping the dogs at Chernobyl. 433 00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:29,760 Speaker 2: Videm comes rolling up on his bicycle with no brakes, 434 00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:31,600 Speaker 2: and he comes rolling up really fast, and then he 435 00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:34,800 Speaker 2: sticks his foot in his front tire to use as 436 00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:39,080 Speaker 2: a break. His English is okay, he's learning, and he says, 437 00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:41,680 Speaker 2: I want to I love dogs, I want to help. 438 00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:44,480 Speaker 2: And he said okay, and so he started helping us, 439 00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:45,960 Speaker 2: and he came back at year after year. 440 00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:49,720 Speaker 1: Like Jen, Vidim is anxious to get to Chernobyl, where 441 00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:52,840 Speaker 1: his father was trapped during the Russian occupation. 442 00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:55,800 Speaker 2: Vadim was not in Chernobyl at the time, but his 443 00:30:55,800 --> 00:31:01,520 Speaker 2: father was, and he also was trying to get into 444 00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:05,040 Speaker 2: Chernobyl to bring supplies. There were people that needed insulin, 445 00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:07,280 Speaker 2: there were his father needed some medication. 446 00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:11,239 Speaker 1: The team loaded up a van with food, gear and 447 00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:16,120 Speaker 1: supplies and set out for the long, tense drive to Chernobyl. 448 00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:21,040 Speaker 1: Out the window, Jen sees the country She loves torn apart. 449 00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:25,800 Speaker 2: If you drive around Ukraine anywhere, you're gonna see destruction. 450 00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:31,200 Speaker 2: They are targeting civilian they're chart targeting apartment buildings, they're 451 00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:35,120 Speaker 2: targeting hospitals. You can't not see it. It's everywhere. 452 00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:41,760 Speaker 1: Destroyed bridges forced them to ford shallow rivers. At checkpoints, 453 00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:46,480 Speaker 1: armed soldiers examine their papers and ask why they're headed 454 00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:50,000 Speaker 1: into one of the most exclusive places in the country. 455 00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:52,840 Speaker 2: Who are you, Why are you here? Show me your 456 00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:56,760 Speaker 2: certifications to get in. We stopped, I believe it was 457 00:31:56,800 --> 00:31:59,720 Speaker 2: around six times before even getting into. 458 00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:05,680 Speaker 1: With each checkpoint the questioning gets more severe. Vadim and 459 00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:07,000 Speaker 1: Andrew do the talking. 460 00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:09,520 Speaker 2: He got in some ways just because he knows everybody 461 00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:12,560 Speaker 2: there and was able to bring humanitarian aid, and then 462 00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:14,960 Speaker 2: he also became our liaison. 463 00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:18,960 Speaker 1: The final checkpoint waves them on with a warning stay 464 00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:22,600 Speaker 1: on the road, there are land mines. As the van 465 00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:27,200 Speaker 1: crept closer to Chernobyl, arriving in the settlement of Ivan Kiev, 466 00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:29,960 Speaker 1: an eerie silent loomed over them. 467 00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:34,040 Speaker 2: There was a lot of destruction in that area as well, 468 00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:37,520 Speaker 2: and so it was just everything was silent, and none 469 00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:41,520 Speaker 2: of us spoke. We just sat there and drove and 470 00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:45,440 Speaker 2: with our jaws open and just went down to the 471 00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:48,200 Speaker 2: area and it was, you know, it was kind of 472 00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:49,480 Speaker 2: just devastating experience. 473 00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:54,239 Speaker 1: They lurch closer to the reactor site and pull up 474 00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:58,400 Speaker 1: to the red forest where Russian soldiers had camped. The 475 00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:01,760 Speaker 1: car stops, the doors swing open. 476 00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:07,080 Speaker 2: I did go into the trenches where they had dug 477 00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:10,200 Speaker 2: up in that area, and you know, all of that 478 00:33:10,280 --> 00:33:12,360 Speaker 2: had I was worried about that all of that had 479 00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:16,560 Speaker 2: been cleared. And our friend vedem He's had been in 480 00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:20,160 Speaker 2: that area as well, So I trusted trusted him and said, okay, 481 00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:22,280 Speaker 2: you sure there's no landmines. All I'm just going to 482 00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:24,320 Speaker 2: follow right behind you, so you go first. 483 00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:29,080 Speaker 1: After hours of traveling, they pull up to the power plant. 484 00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:37,720 Speaker 1: Dogs are everywhere. The strays clearly found the food Andrew brought. 485 00:33:38,160 --> 00:33:41,800 Speaker 1: They're putting on weight, and it seems they've become healthy 486 00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:46,040 Speaker 1: enough to breed too. There are dozens of pregnant dogs. 487 00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:50,960 Speaker 1: Jen quickly realizes if she wants to stabilize the population 488 00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:55,320 Speaker 1: and provide all these new pups with medical care, she 489 00:33:55,480 --> 00:34:01,600 Speaker 1: needs to kickstart a SPAE and newter operation soon. But 490 00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:06,480 Speaker 1: that is a tall task because first you have to 491 00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:09,360 Speaker 1: catch them, which is harder than it sounds. 492 00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:12,680 Speaker 2: We had problems for years and years being able to 493 00:34:12,680 --> 00:34:15,480 Speaker 2: catch these dogs. It's an industrial area, there's stuff everywhere. 494 00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:18,440 Speaker 2: The dogs run under fences, you know, to get away. 495 00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:23,040 Speaker 1: In the past, volunteers tried dressing up like the plant 496 00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:27,400 Speaker 1: workers who fed them. The dogs weren't fooled. They tried 497 00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:29,840 Speaker 1: using blow darts to sedate them. 498 00:34:30,200 --> 00:34:34,120 Speaker 2: No dice, you you know, blow dart one dog. The 499 00:34:34,200 --> 00:34:37,439 Speaker 2: dog takes off running and all of the other dogs say, 500 00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:40,440 Speaker 2: I know what's happening. I'm gone, and then that's it. 501 00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:44,440 Speaker 1: With the war raging around them, Jen knew there was 502 00:34:44,560 --> 00:34:47,919 Speaker 1: no time to play games. If she wanted to give 503 00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:51,359 Speaker 1: these dogs medical care, she'd have to find a way 504 00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:55,600 Speaker 1: to trap dozens at a time. She returned to America 505 00:34:55,640 --> 00:34:59,279 Speaker 1: and started assembling a team of vets, vet texts, and 506 00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:04,640 Speaker 1: dog handlers to run a field hospital. Meanwhile, in Chernobyl, 507 00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:08,680 Speaker 1: she enlisted a local plant worker named Yuri to start 508 00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:12,480 Speaker 1: training the dogs to be corralled into makeshift pens. 509 00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:15,200 Speaker 2: We spent months and months training them to go into 510 00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:19,040 Speaker 2: these makeshift areas that we could close the gate on them. 511 00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:25,120 Speaker 1: Four months later, in October twenty twenty two, Jen would 512 00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:30,280 Speaker 1: return to Chernobyl. This time she came with thirteen volunteers, 513 00:35:30,760 --> 00:35:35,920 Speaker 1: plus vials of vaccines, medicine, and surgical gear. It was 514 00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:41,480 Speaker 1: time to get to work. It started with Yuri. Over 515 00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:44,680 Speaker 1: the last few months, the dogs had come to trust him, 516 00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:48,799 Speaker 1: and so like the pied Piper, he walked into one 517 00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:51,799 Speaker 1: pen and lured a pack of pups inside. 518 00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:55,480 Speaker 2: We were able to house thirty or forty little dogs 519 00:35:55,520 --> 00:35:58,239 Speaker 2: in one location at one time, and then each one 520 00:35:58,239 --> 00:36:00,279 Speaker 2: of those we could either go in and handcap with 521 00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:01,200 Speaker 2: the workers. 522 00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:05,000 Speaker 1: Or ourselves one by one. The team started bathing and 523 00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:07,080 Speaker 1: shaving the strays, but. 524 00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:09,680 Speaker 2: Every single animal that comes through, we freaks them for 525 00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:13,759 Speaker 2: radiation and decontaminate them before we touch them, and we 526 00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:16,319 Speaker 2: simply wash their fur, or we clip their fur with 527 00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:19,520 Speaker 2: the clippers and then rescan them and then they're fine. 528 00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:24,560 Speaker 1: Jen enticed the most skittish puppies by feeding them meatballs 529 00:36:24,719 --> 00:36:28,520 Speaker 1: laced with sedatives went to sleep. They were carried to 530 00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:34,080 Speaker 1: a mash unit surgical tables fashioned from ironing boards, oxygen tanks, 531 00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:39,719 Speaker 1: machines for anesthesia and monitoring. For four days straight, the 532 00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:44,040 Speaker 1: team worked around the clock, stumbling to bed exhausted as 533 00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:45,680 Speaker 1: the war echoed around them. 534 00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:48,040 Speaker 2: You get woken up in the middle of the night 535 00:36:48,120 --> 00:36:50,840 Speaker 2: hearing a schehi drunk go right over your head. It's 536 00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:54,160 Speaker 2: destination is Kiev and not Chernobyl. But still you never know, 537 00:36:54,719 --> 00:36:58,399 Speaker 2: and so you can't sleep. You're on a constant edge. 538 00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:01,600 Speaker 2: Everybody is anxious and it's just not a good situation. 539 00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:06,880 Speaker 1: Still, with the help of more than a dozen volunteers, 540 00:37:07,320 --> 00:37:13,200 Speaker 1: the team cleaned, vaccinated, spade, and neutered and treated one 541 00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:17,880 Speaker 1: hundred and twenty five dogs. It was their most successful 542 00:37:18,080 --> 00:37:23,680 Speaker 1: mission yet. Jen returned to Kiev and the team celebrated 543 00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:29,080 Speaker 1: over dinner. They left toasted their success. They had a 544 00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:32,560 Speaker 1: good time. For a moment, they forgot they were in 545 00:37:32,680 --> 00:37:35,960 Speaker 1: a war zone. But war has a way of making 546 00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:40,040 Speaker 1: itself known. Just a few hours after they left. 547 00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:43,040 Speaker 2: We're eating dinner at this one place, and right across 548 00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:46,640 Speaker 2: the street the building there was bombed and destroyed. 549 00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:55,480 Speaker 1: Soon war would touch the team in more unimaginable ways. 550 00:37:56,360 --> 00:38:00,520 Speaker 1: The deem had helped make the spay and neuter operation possible, 551 00:38:01,080 --> 00:38:04,560 Speaker 1: but he wasn't there to help. A Few weeks before 552 00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:07,080 Speaker 1: the mission, he made up his mind to join the 553 00:38:07,160 --> 00:38:11,280 Speaker 1: Ukrainian military. He was quickly sent to the front lines. 554 00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:14,759 Speaker 1: Jen has a selfie scent of him sitting in a 555 00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:18,000 Speaker 1: foxhole in fatigues holding a rifle. 556 00:38:21,719 --> 00:38:25,359 Speaker 2: His brother had gotten drafted into the army, and he 557 00:38:25,880 --> 00:38:30,680 Speaker 2: decided to join alongside his brother, and unfortunately was killed. 558 00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:37,000 Speaker 1: Three months later, in January twenty twenty three, a rocket 559 00:38:37,120 --> 00:38:41,200 Speaker 1: hit Vadim's unit during the Battle of Bakhmut. He and 560 00:38:41,320 --> 00:38:45,960 Speaker 1: several other Ukrainian soldiers were killed in action. The eager 561 00:38:46,160 --> 00:38:49,759 Speaker 1: young man who rolled up on his bicycle offering to 562 00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:54,680 Speaker 1: help preserve the fragile lives of stray dogs became another 563 00:38:54,880 --> 00:39:01,920 Speaker 1: casualty of war. Three years later. The war continues to 564 00:39:02,040 --> 00:39:04,800 Speaker 1: chase Jen and her friends in Ukraine. 565 00:39:05,440 --> 00:39:08,920 Speaker 2: It's everywhere. I just had a friend of mine just 566 00:39:09,239 --> 00:39:13,000 Speaker 2: last week her veterinary clinic, her clinic that she's set up, 567 00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:17,440 Speaker 2: was hit by missiles and thankfully none of the dogs died. 568 00:39:18,280 --> 00:39:22,480 Speaker 1: And yet, despite all the risks, Jen has returned to 569 00:39:22,680 --> 00:39:28,200 Speaker 1: Chernobyl six times since that visit in twenty twenty two. 570 00:39:28,360 --> 00:39:32,080 Speaker 1: Against all the odds, the dogs of Chernobyl are surviving 571 00:39:32,719 --> 00:39:35,360 Speaker 1: and with Jen's help, they're thriving. 572 00:39:37,760 --> 00:39:41,400 Speaker 2: In the past, yes, because of predation, because of fighting 573 00:39:41,400 --> 00:39:44,200 Speaker 2: amongst each other, because of lack of food, because of 574 00:39:44,920 --> 00:39:48,840 Speaker 2: the attrition rate, some of them did not last very long. 575 00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:54,000 Speaker 1: Many rarely made it past four or five years now. 576 00:39:54,239 --> 00:39:56,720 Speaker 2: But since our program has started and we've had control 577 00:39:56,760 --> 00:39:59,920 Speaker 2: over the population, we have dogs that are twelve, thirty, 578 00:40:00,200 --> 00:40:02,759 Speaker 2: even fourteen years of age at this point. I have 579 00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:06,239 Speaker 2: started a lot of them on arthritis medication, and you know, 580 00:40:06,239 --> 00:40:08,360 Speaker 2: I'm trying to keep them as comfortable as possible. 581 00:40:08,760 --> 00:40:12,279 Speaker 1: In a place long associated with death, The dogs of 582 00:40:12,360 --> 00:40:17,400 Speaker 1: Chernobyl remind us that life endures, and Jen plans to 583 00:40:17,640 --> 00:40:20,839 Speaker 1: keep returning for as long as necessary. 584 00:40:21,480 --> 00:40:23,640 Speaker 2: Nobody knows what's going to happen in the future. But 585 00:40:24,520 --> 00:40:28,120 Speaker 2: I'm more drawn to the place now than ever, and 586 00:40:28,440 --> 00:40:32,719 Speaker 2: I have since the war. I have so many more 587 00:40:32,719 --> 00:40:35,080 Speaker 2: friends and loved ones there that I'm very very close 588 00:40:35,120 --> 00:40:37,640 Speaker 2: with and you know, talk to on a daily basis. 589 00:40:38,040 --> 00:40:41,000 Speaker 2: Chernobyl is a funny place and that it captures you 590 00:40:41,280 --> 00:40:43,480 Speaker 2: and all you want to do is just, for some reason, 591 00:40:43,600 --> 00:40:45,040 Speaker 2: just be in Chernobyl. 592 00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:48,080 Speaker 1: She has just one wish for the war. 593 00:40:48,800 --> 00:40:51,440 Speaker 2: It's a reality. It's it just needs to stop. 594 00:40:52,320 --> 00:41:00,680 Speaker 1: It just needs to stop. If you would like to 595 00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:03,960 Speaker 1: help the dogs of Chernobyl, you can send donations to 596 00:41:04,200 --> 00:41:09,480 Speaker 1: cleanfutures dot org. You can specify donations to the dogs, 597 00:41:09,600 --> 00:41:13,000 Speaker 1: to the local children, or even the cats. And if 598 00:41:13,040 --> 00:41:16,320 Speaker 1: you want to help out more, Jen says, come volunteer 599 00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:23,480 Speaker 1: with her. She needs help doing social media, Dana. 600 00:41:23,520 --> 00:41:25,840 Speaker 3: When we were at Mental Floss, some of our best 601 00:41:25,880 --> 00:41:29,880 Speaker 3: performing stories were photo essays from people who managed to 602 00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:33,200 Speaker 3: get into the exclusion zone and photograph the ways that 603 00:41:33,320 --> 00:41:37,719 Speaker 3: nature had retaken the Chernobyl. We'll find out if that 604 00:41:38,120 --> 00:41:40,440 Speaker 3: applies to anthology podcasts. 605 00:41:41,800 --> 00:41:44,560 Speaker 1: There's something kind of just romantic about it, the thought 606 00:41:44,600 --> 00:41:47,480 Speaker 1: that even without people and even in the aftermath of 607 00:41:47,560 --> 00:41:52,440 Speaker 1: like a massive piece of human cause destruction, that life 608 00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:54,600 Speaker 1: still exists and these poor dogs. 609 00:41:54,920 --> 00:41:58,040 Speaker 5: This one has so many great moving moments, compelling moments, 610 00:41:58,080 --> 00:42:00,640 Speaker 5: but like I was really just struck by the character. 611 00:42:00,440 --> 00:42:02,560 Speaker 4: Videm Yeah, it's heartbreaking. 612 00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:05,560 Speaker 3: Arrives on a bicycle, wants to help duo. 613 00:42:05,680 --> 00:42:07,959 Speaker 5: Yes, I mean he's pulling up the foot break, putting 614 00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:11,080 Speaker 5: this on the wheel. I can totally see that moment. 615 00:42:11,120 --> 00:42:13,719 Speaker 5: And he's just such a powerful moment for a character's intro. 616 00:42:13,840 --> 00:42:15,719 Speaker 5: You can just immediately know who this guy is with 617 00:42:15,840 --> 00:42:16,680 Speaker 5: just one gesture. 618 00:42:16,960 --> 00:42:19,640 Speaker 1: It just sort of makes you realize, like how much 619 00:42:19,680 --> 00:42:21,440 Speaker 1: impact a single person can have. 620 00:42:21,920 --> 00:42:23,399 Speaker 4: Yes, true, sometimes for. 621 00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:25,399 Speaker 1: A situations where you look around and you're like, okay, 622 00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:27,480 Speaker 1: well surely someone else will step up and take care 623 00:42:27,520 --> 00:42:30,239 Speaker 1: of this, but sometimes it just has to be you, 624 00:42:30,320 --> 00:42:32,800 Speaker 1: and if you act, you'll make a huge difference. 625 00:42:33,080 --> 00:42:36,719 Speaker 4: M did you guys have any very special characters for 626 00:42:36,760 --> 00:42:37,080 Speaker 4: this one? 627 00:42:37,120 --> 00:42:40,400 Speaker 3: I mean doctor Betts, Well, doctor Batts is the obvious winner, 628 00:42:40,600 --> 00:42:43,520 Speaker 3: So maybe for Yuri, I'll give very special moment for 629 00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:47,799 Speaker 3: arriving in town and getting the dogs to trust him 630 00:42:47,960 --> 00:42:50,520 Speaker 3: to the point that they will follow them into the 631 00:42:50,560 --> 00:42:53,880 Speaker 3: pen and let the healing begin, a very sweet moment. 632 00:42:54,640 --> 00:42:57,520 Speaker 5: I definitely like that mind's a little bit less sweet. 633 00:42:57,560 --> 00:42:59,279 Speaker 5: I just love that the dogs could get fed a 634 00:42:59,320 --> 00:43:01,640 Speaker 5: little bit and then pregnant. So the pregnant dogs. I 635 00:43:01,680 --> 00:43:04,680 Speaker 5: was so into that, as like life finds away right there. 636 00:43:04,920 --> 00:43:05,600 Speaker 1: Amazing. 637 00:43:05,840 --> 00:43:07,759 Speaker 4: Yeah, tackle you, Dana. I was really touched by that. 638 00:43:08,080 --> 00:43:09,040 Speaker 4: Is there a movie here? 639 00:43:09,360 --> 00:43:11,080 Speaker 3: There's a TV show for sure. 640 00:43:10,920 --> 00:43:12,920 Speaker 5: But yeah, definitely a TV show. I tried to do 641 00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:16,200 Speaker 5: my best on castings. Sook for veterinarian doctor Jennifer Betts. 642 00:43:16,239 --> 00:43:18,879 Speaker 5: I went with Jennifer Lawrence. I thought she could pull 643 00:43:18,920 --> 00:43:21,520 Speaker 5: that off. And then for doctor Megan Dylan. I liked 644 00:43:21,520 --> 00:43:24,200 Speaker 5: Florence Pugh. I thought she could definitely play someone who's 645 00:43:24,200 --> 00:43:27,280 Speaker 5: studying the DNA of Chernobyl dogs. And for Andrew Simon, 646 00:43:27,320 --> 00:43:30,200 Speaker 5: the university professor, the scientist cat. I was having a 647 00:43:30,200 --> 00:43:31,840 Speaker 5: tough one with this one, so I went with a 648 00:43:31,880 --> 00:43:33,879 Speaker 5: young Ed Norton. I don't know why I went young 649 00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:36,479 Speaker 5: Ed Darton, right, but I liked that call. And then 650 00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:39,640 Speaker 5: for the young Ukrainian lawyer Vadin my Man. This one 651 00:43:39,680 --> 00:43:41,759 Speaker 5: was difficult. I even went and looked up lists of 652 00:43:41,920 --> 00:43:45,080 Speaker 5: Ukrainian American actors, and the best I could do, who 653 00:43:45,160 --> 00:43:47,240 Speaker 5: is somebody who was Ukrainians. I wanted to cast Ukrainian 654 00:43:47,280 --> 00:43:50,600 Speaker 5: for this, or Ukrainian American was Jason Gould, son of 655 00:43:50,640 --> 00:43:53,279 Speaker 5: Elliott Gould and Barbara Streisand for some reason I thought 656 00:43:53,280 --> 00:43:54,280 Speaker 5: he had the right energy. 657 00:43:54,360 --> 00:43:56,200 Speaker 4: So there you go, all right. 658 00:43:56,400 --> 00:43:57,840 Speaker 1: I love that. I have to look him up. I 659 00:43:57,880 --> 00:43:58,880 Speaker 1: can't picture his face. 660 00:43:59,160 --> 00:44:02,120 Speaker 5: Well, just imagine Barbis Streisan and Elli Gould put together 661 00:44:02,200 --> 00:44:03,400 Speaker 5: by like Ai nicewear. 662 00:44:03,440 --> 00:44:04,440 Speaker 4: To God, that's what he looks like. 663 00:44:08,040 --> 00:44:11,160 Speaker 3: Very Special Episodes is made by some very special people. 664 00:44:11,640 --> 00:44:14,800 Speaker 3: Today's episode was produced in partnership with School of Humans. 665 00:44:15,120 --> 00:44:17,960 Speaker 3: The show is hosted by Danis Schwartz, Sarah Burnett, and 666 00:44:18,080 --> 00:44:22,000 Speaker 3: Jason English. Our senior producer is Josh Fisher. Today's episode 667 00:44:22,040 --> 00:44:25,200 Speaker 3: was written by Lucas Riley. Our story editor is Virginia 668 00:44:25,200 --> 00:44:26,840 Speaker 3: Prescott from School of Humans. 669 00:44:26,880 --> 00:44:28,280 Speaker 4: Producers are Amelia. 670 00:44:27,920 --> 00:44:32,000 Speaker 3: Brock Etali's Perez and Gabby Watts. Editing and sound design 671 00:44:32,080 --> 00:44:36,600 Speaker 3: by Jesse Niswanger, Mixing and mastering by Jesse Niswanger. Research 672 00:44:36,640 --> 00:44:40,880 Speaker 3: and fact checking by Lucas Riley and Austin Thompson. Original 673 00:44:40,960 --> 00:44:45,200 Speaker 3: music by Elise McCoy, show logo by Lucy Quintonia. Social 674 00:44:45,200 --> 00:44:49,160 Speaker 3: clips by your Berry Media Executive producers of today's episode 675 00:44:49,200 --> 00:44:53,560 Speaker 3: are Virginia Prescott and Jason English. Very Special Episodes is 676 00:44:53,600 --> 00:45:00,279 Speaker 3: a production of iHeart Podcasts Yeah