1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:02,400 Speaker 1: Hey, please take a second and leave us a review 2 00:00:02,480 --> 00:00:06,279 Speaker 1: on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to the podcast. 3 00:00:06,960 --> 00:00:07,480 Speaker 2: Thanks a lot. 4 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,800 Speaker 1: Hey, welcome to Sign Stuff, a production of iHeartRadio Hoe 5 00:00:13,000 --> 00:00:17,080 Speaker 1: Cham and today we're talking about super memory. There are 6 00:00:17,120 --> 00:00:20,279 Speaker 1: people out there that can memorize over one hundred thousand 7 00:00:20,400 --> 00:00:24,239 Speaker 1: digits of pie. Others can read a series of books 8 00:00:24,480 --> 00:00:28,360 Speaker 1: and then recite them by hears and still others can 9 00:00:28,440 --> 00:00:31,880 Speaker 1: remember what they did every single day of their lives, 10 00:00:32,280 --> 00:00:35,760 Speaker 1: some reportedly as far back to the day they were born. 11 00:00:36,440 --> 00:00:38,360 Speaker 1: How are they able to do that? Is it a 12 00:00:38,440 --> 00:00:42,320 Speaker 1: superpower or is it something that anyone can learn to do. 13 00:00:42,720 --> 00:00:44,960 Speaker 1: We're going to talk to a couple of memory scientists 14 00:00:45,040 --> 00:00:47,600 Speaker 1: who are going to break down how memory works, what 15 00:00:47,720 --> 00:00:51,040 Speaker 1: are its limits, and whether being able to remember everything 16 00:00:51,400 --> 00:00:55,560 Speaker 1: is a gift or a curse. So get ready for 17 00:00:55,640 --> 00:01:06,520 Speaker 1: a memorable episode about memory, one that you won't soon forget. Enjoy. Hey, everyone, 18 00:01:06,920 --> 00:01:10,000 Speaker 1: So there are some people out there with amazing memory. 19 00:01:10,480 --> 00:01:14,160 Speaker 1: For example, there's Akira Haragucci, who broke the world record 20 00:01:14,200 --> 00:01:18,399 Speaker 1: for memorizing and reciting the most digits of pie. You 21 00:01:18,440 --> 00:01:21,640 Speaker 1: know pie, It's that math number that goes three point 22 00:01:21,760 --> 00:01:25,280 Speaker 1: one four one, five, nine, two, six, five, three, five, 23 00:01:25,440 --> 00:01:29,240 Speaker 1: eight nine, seventy nine three two, three, eight four, and 24 00:01:29,400 --> 00:01:32,640 Speaker 1: so on and so on. That's just twenty digits of it. 25 00:01:33,160 --> 00:01:37,080 Speaker 1: But Akira Haragucci was able to memorize and recall one 26 00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:40,399 Speaker 1: hundred thousand digits of it, a record that to this 27 00:01:40,520 --> 00:01:45,279 Speaker 1: day is still unbroken. Then there's famous savant Kim Peak. 28 00:01:45,720 --> 00:01:48,360 Speaker 1: Peak was the inspiration for the character in the movie 29 00:01:48,440 --> 00:01:52,080 Speaker 1: rain Man. He could recide from memory over six thousand 30 00:01:52,200 --> 00:01:54,560 Speaker 1: books he had read, and he could tell you the 31 00:01:54,680 --> 00:01:57,800 Speaker 1: ZIP code and aera code of pretty much every city 32 00:01:58,040 --> 00:02:00,880 Speaker 1: in the United States. Now, I don't know about you, 33 00:02:00,920 --> 00:02:04,080 Speaker 1: but I'm a little forgetful sometimes. So the fact that 34 00:02:04,080 --> 00:02:06,960 Speaker 1: there are humans that can have this level of memory 35 00:02:07,400 --> 00:02:11,400 Speaker 1: is absolutely mind boggling to me. To learn more about 36 00:02:11,440 --> 00:02:14,640 Speaker 1: memory and how super memory works, I reached out to 37 00:02:14,639 --> 00:02:18,919 Speaker 1: an expert in the field, doctor Daniella Palombo. Doctor Palombo 38 00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:22,600 Speaker 1: is a professor at the University of British Columbia or UBC, 39 00:02:22,960 --> 00:02:27,520 Speaker 1: who studies people with extraordinary memory. Now, before we got 40 00:02:27,520 --> 00:02:31,120 Speaker 1: started hearing that she works at UBC, there a memory 41 00:02:31,240 --> 00:02:32,200 Speaker 1: in my head. 42 00:02:33,720 --> 00:02:35,799 Speaker 2: I've been to the UBC a couple of times. 43 00:02:35,880 --> 00:02:37,920 Speaker 3: I think, yeah, nice campus. 44 00:02:38,160 --> 00:02:40,720 Speaker 2: I rememory of being there. I've been going skiing at night. 45 00:02:41,200 --> 00:02:43,040 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, probably app in Whistler. 46 00:02:43,440 --> 00:02:46,600 Speaker 2: Uh no, just above the city there's a ski slope. 47 00:02:46,720 --> 00:02:50,239 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, Well that's a good segue into our conversation 48 00:02:50,320 --> 00:02:55,320 Speaker 3: about memory. You were you out Cyprus or maybe. 49 00:02:55,160 --> 00:03:00,519 Speaker 2: Gross gosh, it was a long time ago, and I've 50 00:03:00,520 --> 00:03:02,480 Speaker 2: been to about four hundred universities. 51 00:03:02,720 --> 00:03:04,640 Speaker 3: You didn't know I was going to grill your memory today. 52 00:03:05,520 --> 00:03:09,119 Speaker 2: That did such detail a memory of us snowboarding down 53 00:03:09,160 --> 00:03:10,840 Speaker 2: a mountain in Vancouver mid night. 54 00:03:11,280 --> 00:03:11,720 Speaker 3: Amazing? 55 00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:14,919 Speaker 1: Like I said, I would not be the poster child 56 00:03:14,960 --> 00:03:18,440 Speaker 1: for people with super memory. Okay, doctor Palumbo is going 57 00:03:18,520 --> 00:03:22,119 Speaker 1: to talk to us about super memory, memory athletes and 58 00:03:22,200 --> 00:03:24,920 Speaker 1: people who can remember every single day of their lives. 59 00:03:25,280 --> 00:03:28,040 Speaker 1: But first I wanted to ask her a basic question. 60 00:03:28,639 --> 00:03:31,640 Speaker 1: What do we know about our memory? Is it like 61 00:03:31,720 --> 00:03:34,200 Speaker 1: a computer hard drive that sits in one place in 62 00:03:34,200 --> 00:03:37,640 Speaker 1: our brain? Does it store things as files with holders 63 00:03:37,640 --> 00:03:40,640 Speaker 1: that we can just look up whenever we want. It 64 00:03:40,680 --> 00:03:43,640 Speaker 1: turns out there's a lot we don't know about how 65 00:03:43,680 --> 00:03:46,880 Speaker 1: memory works. First of all, I was curious to know 66 00:03:47,280 --> 00:03:48,400 Speaker 1: how does memory work? 67 00:03:48,840 --> 00:03:52,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a very big question. So first, memory is 68 00:03:52,280 --> 00:03:56,000 Speaker 3: not just one thing. When we remember our past, we 69 00:03:56,040 --> 00:03:59,240 Speaker 3: can do so with different forms of remembering. So you 70 00:03:59,280 --> 00:04:01,080 Speaker 3: may have heard the our memory systems. 71 00:04:01,960 --> 00:04:03,920 Speaker 1: Okay, The first thing to know about memory is that 72 00:04:03,960 --> 00:04:07,640 Speaker 1: there isn't one kind of memory. There are several types 73 00:04:07,640 --> 00:04:10,160 Speaker 1: of memory. The first kind is the kind that we 74 00:04:10,200 --> 00:04:16,240 Speaker 1: are most familiar with, called episodic memory or basically flashbacks. 75 00:04:17,080 --> 00:04:20,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, so episodic memory is our memory for specific events. 76 00:04:21,200 --> 00:04:24,080 Speaker 3: So for example, if I asked you to remember your 77 00:04:24,120 --> 00:04:26,920 Speaker 3: first date, or if I asked you to remember something 78 00:04:27,200 --> 00:04:30,320 Speaker 3: unusual that happened to you, you'd be able to conjure 79 00:04:30,400 --> 00:04:33,520 Speaker 3: up details that are specific to that event, like where 80 00:04:33,520 --> 00:04:35,920 Speaker 3: you were sitting, what you were wearing, how you were 81 00:04:35,960 --> 00:04:39,159 Speaker 3: feeling at the time. So we can really sort of 82 00:04:39,200 --> 00:04:42,280 Speaker 3: it feels like we're reliving these events from our past, 83 00:04:42,640 --> 00:04:46,520 Speaker 3: like we're playing back a recording. And that's very different 84 00:04:46,520 --> 00:04:49,520 Speaker 3: from other forms of memory, like our semantic memory or 85 00:04:49,680 --> 00:04:53,400 Speaker 3: memory for facts knowing that Paris is the capital of France, 86 00:04:53,480 --> 00:04:56,480 Speaker 3: for example, or that Vancouver is in British Columbia. 87 00:04:56,520 --> 00:04:58,560 Speaker 2: I see Episodic. 88 00:04:58,040 --> 00:05:01,200 Speaker 3: Memory and semantic memory a are part of a broader 89 00:05:01,480 --> 00:05:05,520 Speaker 3: sort of umbrella within our memory systems called declarative memory. 90 00:05:05,680 --> 00:05:10,080 Speaker 3: Some people refer to it as explicit memory. 91 00:05:10,200 --> 00:05:12,960 Speaker 1: So there are two basic types of memory. The first, 92 00:05:13,160 --> 00:05:18,440 Speaker 1: declarative memory is basically what you consciously remember, facts, things 93 00:05:18,520 --> 00:05:20,680 Speaker 1: that happen. You can bring them up in your brain 94 00:05:20,960 --> 00:05:24,120 Speaker 1: and think about them. The second type of memory is 95 00:05:24,120 --> 00:05:28,120 Speaker 1: the kind you remember unconsciously. It's what gets today call 96 00:05:28,680 --> 00:05:30,360 Speaker 1: ball knowledge. 97 00:05:31,440 --> 00:05:35,760 Speaker 3: And that's another form of remembering called implicit memory. And so, 98 00:05:36,120 --> 00:05:38,400 Speaker 3: for example, do you play any instruments? 99 00:05:38,920 --> 00:05:43,159 Speaker 2: I do, Yeah, little piano, little guitar, great, there's some drums. 100 00:05:42,800 --> 00:05:45,159 Speaker 3: Okay, So when you sit down at the piano and 101 00:05:45,200 --> 00:05:48,960 Speaker 3: you start playing, that kind of just comes back to naturally, 102 00:05:49,040 --> 00:05:52,960 Speaker 3: you don't necessarily remember every piano lesson you had, but 103 00:05:53,040 --> 00:05:56,719 Speaker 3: nonetheless you're able to perform that incredible feat of playing music. 104 00:05:58,000 --> 00:06:01,240 Speaker 3: Another example is the first time you learn to ride 105 00:06:01,279 --> 00:06:04,000 Speaker 3: a bike. Many of us don't remember that event, but 106 00:06:04,080 --> 00:06:06,400 Speaker 3: we can hop on a bike kind of at any age, 107 00:06:06,440 --> 00:06:07,560 Speaker 3: and we can ride. 108 00:06:07,480 --> 00:06:09,640 Speaker 2: And you never forget, as they say, how to ride 109 00:06:09,680 --> 00:06:09,960 Speaker 2: a bike. 110 00:06:10,120 --> 00:06:12,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's exactly right. And so we think of that 111 00:06:12,920 --> 00:06:15,240 Speaker 3: as being a more implicit form of memory. So or 112 00:06:15,440 --> 00:06:17,000 Speaker 3: memory for how to do things. 113 00:06:18,080 --> 00:06:22,040 Speaker 1: Yes, there are different kinds of memory. Another interesting thing 114 00:06:22,040 --> 00:06:24,240 Speaker 1: we know about memory is that it doesn't just sit 115 00:06:24,400 --> 00:06:27,680 Speaker 1: in one place in our brains. It's kind of all 116 00:06:27,680 --> 00:06:30,800 Speaker 1: over the place, depending on what you use it for. 117 00:06:31,160 --> 00:06:33,960 Speaker 1: If it's your memory for how to physically do something 118 00:06:34,320 --> 00:06:37,919 Speaker 1: like ride a bike or the baseball, that memory is 119 00:06:37,960 --> 00:06:41,200 Speaker 1: in the motor areas of your brain, sort of across 120 00:06:41,240 --> 00:06:44,000 Speaker 1: the top of your brain. If it's your ability to 121 00:06:44,080 --> 00:06:48,359 Speaker 1: remember a song or remembering what something tastes or smells like, 122 00:06:48,880 --> 00:06:52,680 Speaker 1: then it's in your sensory cortex, which is closer to 123 00:06:52,720 --> 00:06:55,120 Speaker 1: the back of your head, kind of where the swirl 124 00:06:55,200 --> 00:06:58,760 Speaker 1: of your hair is. And if it's your vivid dream 125 00:06:58,800 --> 00:07:02,240 Speaker 1: type of memory or your memory of facts, scientists think 126 00:07:02,320 --> 00:07:05,440 Speaker 1: those are kind of diffused all over the brain. In 127 00:07:05,480 --> 00:07:08,560 Speaker 1: other words, there's no one central hard drive for story 128 00:07:08,640 --> 00:07:12,520 Speaker 1: memories in your brain. Okay, The last interesting thing doctor 129 00:07:12,560 --> 00:07:15,480 Speaker 1: Palombo says we know about memory came up when he 130 00:07:15,520 --> 00:07:18,000 Speaker 1: asked me if I remember the first date. 131 00:07:18,120 --> 00:07:18,960 Speaker 2: I ever went on. 132 00:07:20,040 --> 00:07:22,840 Speaker 1: I do not remember my first date, but I do 133 00:07:22,960 --> 00:07:25,120 Speaker 1: remember the first date I had with my spouse, So 134 00:07:25,240 --> 00:07:27,800 Speaker 1: I think that's yeah, that worked it right. 135 00:07:28,680 --> 00:07:31,440 Speaker 3: Yes, that is that is very good. That is very good. 136 00:07:31,760 --> 00:07:34,120 Speaker 2: Yeah. Ohether it's debated still whether it was a date 137 00:07:34,240 --> 00:07:34,440 Speaker 2: or not. 138 00:07:35,760 --> 00:07:37,840 Speaker 3: So I'm sure you have some good stories about that, 139 00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:41,080 Speaker 3: and I would imagine that if you and your partner 140 00:07:41,120 --> 00:07:45,120 Speaker 3: were to exchange details about that event, some of the 141 00:07:45,200 --> 00:07:47,920 Speaker 3: details you would be the same, and some you'd have 142 00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:50,640 Speaker 3: you have very different versions of what actually happened. And 143 00:07:50,680 --> 00:07:54,120 Speaker 3: that's fascinating. So one of the things that's kind of 144 00:07:54,120 --> 00:07:58,960 Speaker 3: interesting about memory is this idea that we playback events 145 00:07:59,120 --> 00:08:02,600 Speaker 3: like we're playing our memories back on a recorder. Memory 146 00:08:02,640 --> 00:08:05,920 Speaker 3: actually doesn't work this way at all, and in fact, 147 00:08:05,960 --> 00:08:08,600 Speaker 3: when we're remembering those events like the first time we 148 00:08:08,640 --> 00:08:12,800 Speaker 3: had a pomegranate, we're actually remembering a combination of what 149 00:08:12,960 --> 00:08:15,840 Speaker 3: actually happened and a bunch of other stuff. And that 150 00:08:16,080 --> 00:08:19,000 Speaker 3: other stuff is the general knowledge we have about the 151 00:08:19,040 --> 00:08:22,800 Speaker 3: world how events should work. We're filling in the blanks 152 00:08:22,800 --> 00:08:25,760 Speaker 3: of our memory, and what we ultimately remember is a 153 00:08:25,760 --> 00:08:29,080 Speaker 3: combination of these two things, what actually happened and the 154 00:08:29,120 --> 00:08:31,960 Speaker 3: inferences and generalizations we have about the world. 155 00:08:32,160 --> 00:08:35,400 Speaker 2: I Meanan, we remember part of what happened, and part 156 00:08:35,400 --> 00:08:37,199 Speaker 2: of what we remember is what we think. 157 00:08:37,000 --> 00:08:40,960 Speaker 3: Happened exactly exactly, and it happens very seamlessly, so we 158 00:08:41,000 --> 00:08:43,800 Speaker 3: don't really realize that we're filling in the blanks this way. 159 00:08:44,679 --> 00:08:48,720 Speaker 1: In other words, memories aren't perfect. They're kind of fuzzy, 160 00:08:49,360 --> 00:08:52,520 Speaker 1: at least for most of us. Okay, now we're going 161 00:08:52,559 --> 00:08:56,960 Speaker 1: to get to super memory, because some people they remember 162 00:08:57,000 --> 00:08:59,960 Speaker 1: a lot and sometimes quite perfectly. 163 00:09:00,800 --> 00:09:02,640 Speaker 2: Well, that brings me to the topic of people who 164 00:09:02,720 --> 00:09:06,800 Speaker 2: have super memory. Yeah, I guess I'm Christine. Some people, 165 00:09:06,840 --> 00:09:09,600 Speaker 2: for example, are able to memorize, you know, one hundred 166 00:09:09,679 --> 00:09:13,439 Speaker 2: thousand digits of pie, or you know, he can memorize 167 00:09:13,720 --> 00:09:14,800 Speaker 2: the works of Shakespeare. 168 00:09:15,080 --> 00:09:17,640 Speaker 3: Yeah, it is such an interesting topic, and I guess 169 00:09:17,720 --> 00:09:20,079 Speaker 3: I'll start a little bit broad by saying that there 170 00:09:20,080 --> 00:09:23,079 Speaker 3: are many sort of types of superior memory. 171 00:09:23,960 --> 00:09:27,040 Speaker 1: According to doctor Palombo, there are two basic types of 172 00:09:27,120 --> 00:09:32,160 Speaker 1: super or superior memorizers. The first type are called memory athletes. 173 00:09:32,559 --> 00:09:36,440 Speaker 1: In the second are people with something called highly superior 174 00:09:36,480 --> 00:09:41,640 Speaker 1: autobiographical memory, or h SAM. And in each of these 175 00:09:41,720 --> 00:09:44,920 Speaker 1: kinds of super memories there are surprising facts that tell 176 00:09:45,000 --> 00:09:47,920 Speaker 1: us a lot about how memory works in our brains 177 00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:51,480 Speaker 1: and how memory shapes who we are. So when we 178 00:09:51,520 --> 00:09:54,160 Speaker 1: come back, we'll tackle the first type of super memory, 179 00:09:54,520 --> 00:09:58,160 Speaker 1: memory athletes, and we'll talk about how maybe you can 180 00:09:58,240 --> 00:10:01,080 Speaker 1: become one. So stay with it, don't forget. 181 00:10:01,600 --> 00:10:02,480 Speaker 2: We'll be right back. 182 00:10:14,320 --> 00:10:16,760 Speaker 1: Hey, welcome back. We're not going to talk about the 183 00:10:16,800 --> 00:10:20,400 Speaker 1: first type of super or superior memory, which is a 184 00:10:20,480 --> 00:10:24,680 Speaker 1: kind found in memory athletes. As I mentioned before, one 185 00:10:24,679 --> 00:10:27,920 Speaker 1: of the most extreme examples of super memory are people 186 00:10:27,960 --> 00:10:32,000 Speaker 1: who can memorize the digits of pie. For example, there's 187 00:10:32,040 --> 00:10:36,079 Speaker 1: Akira Haraguchi, who memorized over one hundred thousand digits of it, 188 00:10:36,400 --> 00:10:40,000 Speaker 1: and he's not alone. According to the Pie World Ranking 189 00:10:40,080 --> 00:10:43,360 Speaker 1: List website, there are at least ten people who have 190 00:10:43,520 --> 00:10:47,720 Speaker 1: memorized over thirty thousand digits of it, including Paul HEARDing, 191 00:10:47,920 --> 00:10:50,800 Speaker 1: the US record holder, who is said to have memorized 192 00:10:50,920 --> 00:10:54,720 Speaker 1: thirty thousand, four hundred and forty eight digits of pie. 193 00:10:55,520 --> 00:10:59,640 Speaker 1: There's even an annual event called the World Memory Championships, 194 00:10:59,720 --> 00:11:03,000 Speaker 1: which which is like the Olympics of memory in it, 195 00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:07,599 Speaker 1: memory athletes compete in timed events like who can memorize 196 00:11:07,600 --> 00:11:11,360 Speaker 1: a random deck of cards the fastest, or who can 197 00:11:11,400 --> 00:11:15,600 Speaker 1: memorize the most random numbers in one hour. Last year, 198 00:11:15,679 --> 00:11:19,960 Speaker 1: in twenty twenty five, the overall winner was narranzul Ot 199 00:11:20,040 --> 00:11:23,880 Speaker 1: gon Uhlan, a sixteen year old girl from Mongolia, who 200 00:11:23,920 --> 00:11:29,120 Speaker 1: absolutely blew away her competition with an astonishing performance. She 201 00:11:29,200 --> 00:11:32,240 Speaker 1: was able to memorize a sequence of three thousand, six 202 00:11:32,320 --> 00:11:36,120 Speaker 1: hundred and twenty three random numbers in one hour. She 203 00:11:36,280 --> 00:11:39,480 Speaker 1: memorized a six thousand, six hundred and seventy two long 204 00:11:39,520 --> 00:11:43,520 Speaker 1: sequence of random ones and zeros in thirty minutes, and 205 00:11:43,640 --> 00:11:46,640 Speaker 1: it only took her twenty four point two seconds to 206 00:11:46,720 --> 00:11:50,600 Speaker 1: memorize the complete sequence of a shuffle deck of cards. 207 00:11:51,200 --> 00:11:53,200 Speaker 1: I mean, I have a hard time remembering those six 208 00:11:53,360 --> 00:11:55,720 Speaker 1: verification digits they give you every time you have to 209 00:11:55,760 --> 00:11:58,880 Speaker 1: log in somewhere now and memorizing a ten digit phone 210 00:11:58,960 --> 00:12:02,400 Speaker 1: number these days, or get it. But here's the amazing 211 00:12:02,440 --> 00:12:07,559 Speaker 1: fact about memory athleticism. According to doctor Daniella Palombo, anyone 212 00:12:07,760 --> 00:12:09,400 Speaker 1: and be a memory athlete. 213 00:12:10,160 --> 00:12:13,840 Speaker 3: And in fact, you can take a random selection of 214 00:12:13,880 --> 00:12:16,760 Speaker 3: people from the population and you can train them to 215 00:12:16,800 --> 00:12:17,760 Speaker 3: be memory athletes. 216 00:12:18,920 --> 00:12:22,160 Speaker 1: Yes, anyone can train to be a memory athlete and 217 00:12:22,400 --> 00:12:25,760 Speaker 1: be able to memorize really long sequences of numbers or 218 00:12:25,880 --> 00:12:30,600 Speaker 1: playing cards, or names or objects. Remember Akira Haragucci, who 219 00:12:30,640 --> 00:12:34,520 Speaker 1: memorized one hundred thousand digits of pie. According to interviews, 220 00:12:34,600 --> 00:12:38,200 Speaker 1: he was neither a prodigy growing up or even particularly 221 00:12:38,280 --> 00:12:41,720 Speaker 1: good at math. He just one day decided to start 222 00:12:41,760 --> 00:12:45,560 Speaker 1: training his memory. The same goes for Alex Mullett, the 223 00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:48,959 Speaker 1: first American to win the World Memory Championship, who went 224 00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:51,720 Speaker 1: on to win it three years in a row. He 225 00:12:51,800 --> 00:12:54,440 Speaker 1: never thought of himself as having a good memory, and 226 00:12:54,640 --> 00:12:57,320 Speaker 1: none of his friends or family growing up would say 227 00:12:57,360 --> 00:13:00,000 Speaker 1: that either. But one day he saw a ted talk 228 00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:03,360 Speaker 1: talk about memory athletes and he decided to try it. 229 00:13:03,960 --> 00:13:07,000 Speaker 1: He started to train himself, and initially, when he was 230 00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:10,480 Speaker 1: able to memorize a twenty item shopping list, he was 231 00:13:10,520 --> 00:13:14,360 Speaker 1: blowing away. Eventually he was able to do amazing things 232 00:13:14,840 --> 00:13:19,120 Speaker 1: like memorize twenty eight decks of randomly shuffled cards in 233 00:13:19,280 --> 00:13:23,079 Speaker 1: one hour. Now, I know what you're thinking. Surely these 234 00:13:23,120 --> 00:13:26,720 Speaker 1: people had a gift for memorizing things, right. I Mean, 235 00:13:26,760 --> 00:13:29,400 Speaker 1: it's true any one of us can learn to play basketball, 236 00:13:29,800 --> 00:13:32,280 Speaker 1: but we can't all play in the NBA? 237 00:13:32,600 --> 00:13:37,080 Speaker 2: Can we? Is their research saying that anybody can get 238 00:13:37,120 --> 00:13:39,480 Speaker 2: to that level? Or is it sort of like playing 239 00:13:39,480 --> 00:13:42,080 Speaker 2: at the NBA you need inherent talent to sort of 240 00:13:42,280 --> 00:13:43,560 Speaker 2: make it to the NBA. 241 00:13:43,640 --> 00:13:47,240 Speaker 3: Based on the research that's done, researchers believe that the 242 00:13:47,280 --> 00:13:51,160 Speaker 3: best explanation for this type of superior memory is practice. 243 00:13:52,559 --> 00:13:56,120 Speaker 3: That's not to say that innate abilities or curiosities are 244 00:13:56,120 --> 00:13:59,640 Speaker 3: not at play. So, for example, if there are individual 245 00:13:59,679 --> 00:14:05,480 Speaker 3: different in one's interest in organizing information, this might help 246 00:14:05,880 --> 00:14:10,199 Speaker 3: use those strategies to remember leader I see. So we're 247 00:14:10,240 --> 00:14:11,800 Speaker 3: still working out the details. 248 00:14:12,920 --> 00:14:15,960 Speaker 1: According to doctor Palumbo, there's even been studies of the 249 00:14:16,040 --> 00:14:19,880 Speaker 1: brains of memory athletes to check whether there's something special 250 00:14:19,880 --> 00:14:23,400 Speaker 1: about them, and it turns out there isn't. 251 00:14:24,640 --> 00:14:27,320 Speaker 3: There's a really interesting study that was done a few 252 00:14:27,400 --> 00:14:30,640 Speaker 3: years ago where they took a group of people who 253 00:14:30,920 --> 00:14:33,600 Speaker 3: would fall into this category or so, these memory athletes, 254 00:14:33,640 --> 00:14:36,280 Speaker 3: and they scan their brains, and then they took a 255 00:14:36,280 --> 00:14:40,080 Speaker 3: group of individuals who are not memory athletes and train 256 00:14:40,160 --> 00:14:43,320 Speaker 3: them up. So the one finding is that when you 257 00:14:43,360 --> 00:14:46,840 Speaker 3: look at the brains of people with superior memory, the 258 00:14:46,920 --> 00:14:50,680 Speaker 3: structure of their brains, they don't look different from other 259 00:14:50,760 --> 00:14:53,280 Speaker 3: individuals who are not superior. 260 00:14:52,760 --> 00:14:55,240 Speaker 2: Memorizers, really huh. 261 00:14:55,280 --> 00:14:57,560 Speaker 3: But when you look at the function of their brains, 262 00:14:57,840 --> 00:15:01,600 Speaker 3: so how their brains activate when they're doing a task 263 00:15:01,720 --> 00:15:05,760 Speaker 3: or when they're at rest, then you see differences between 264 00:15:05,880 --> 00:15:08,920 Speaker 3: individuals who have superior memory and those who do. 265 00:15:08,920 --> 00:15:11,480 Speaker 2: Not what are these differences in functionalities. 266 00:15:11,680 --> 00:15:14,320 Speaker 3: What we tend to see is that the way these 267 00:15:14,320 --> 00:15:17,600 Speaker 3: brain regions are talking to each other looks different. In 268 00:15:17,640 --> 00:15:21,680 Speaker 3: people with superior memory, the connections between brain regions are 269 00:15:21,720 --> 00:15:25,080 Speaker 3: often they're more tightly connected. They're kind of talking to 270 00:15:25,120 --> 00:15:30,440 Speaker 3: each other more. And if you train everyday people like 271 00:15:30,720 --> 00:15:35,200 Speaker 3: yourself or me to engage in these strategies for hours 272 00:15:35,200 --> 00:15:39,920 Speaker 3: and hours, then you see a similar pattern of functional 273 00:15:39,960 --> 00:15:45,200 Speaker 3: differences to those superior memory. And so that points us 274 00:15:45,280 --> 00:15:48,040 Speaker 3: to the importance of training. It's not to say that 275 00:15:48,080 --> 00:15:50,680 Speaker 3: inateabilities are not at all at play. We don't know 276 00:15:50,800 --> 00:15:54,520 Speaker 3: for sure, but it certainly points to evidence that training 277 00:15:54,760 --> 00:15:55,840 Speaker 3: is part of the story. 278 00:15:57,160 --> 00:16:01,120 Speaker 1: Yes, you could train yourself to potentially play the NBA 279 00:16:01,200 --> 00:16:04,920 Speaker 1: of memory athletics if you wanted to. The only caveat 280 00:16:05,080 --> 00:16:08,080 Speaker 1: is that memory athletes have to train a. 281 00:16:07,960 --> 00:16:11,360 Speaker 3: Lot, They have to put in a lot of effort. 282 00:16:11,960 --> 00:16:14,040 Speaker 3: But you can get them trained up, and so you 283 00:16:14,080 --> 00:16:16,440 Speaker 3: could be trained. For example, you refer to yourself as 284 00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:19,360 Speaker 3: being somewhat forgetful, but I bet if you put in 285 00:16:19,400 --> 00:16:22,480 Speaker 3: the time, you would actually impress us all. 286 00:16:23,840 --> 00:16:25,600 Speaker 2: What I would have to remember it to practice. 287 00:16:25,880 --> 00:16:27,720 Speaker 3: That's right, Yes, that's the first step. 288 00:16:29,520 --> 00:16:31,560 Speaker 1: Okay, so what is this training that you have to 289 00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:36,080 Speaker 1: do to become a super memory athlete. According to doctor Palombo, 290 00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:42,600 Speaker 1: the training involves learning and practicing mnemonic strategies or memorizing tricks. 291 00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:47,560 Speaker 3: So what we know about these types of individuals that 292 00:16:47,600 --> 00:16:51,440 Speaker 3: they are actually using strategies to remember a lot of 293 00:16:51,480 --> 00:16:56,000 Speaker 3: information very quickly. And so, for example, many use a 294 00:16:56,040 --> 00:16:59,320 Speaker 3: strategy you call the method of low SI. So imagine 295 00:16:59,320 --> 00:17:03,080 Speaker 3: a memory appet needs to memorize long string of digits, 296 00:17:03,320 --> 00:17:06,640 Speaker 3: which is quite difficult. So what they'll do is they'll 297 00:17:06,640 --> 00:17:10,560 Speaker 3: take those digits and they'll associate them with some form 298 00:17:10,600 --> 00:17:15,080 Speaker 3: of imagery. So maybe the digit io is associated with 299 00:17:15,160 --> 00:17:17,679 Speaker 3: an image of a tiger, and so they'll build this 300 00:17:17,880 --> 00:17:22,800 Speaker 3: image associations because images are easier to remember than strings 301 00:17:22,800 --> 00:17:26,639 Speaker 3: of digits. They'll take those images and they will place 302 00:17:26,760 --> 00:17:30,320 Speaker 3: them in a familiar space in their mind's eyes. So, 303 00:17:30,520 --> 00:17:33,040 Speaker 3: for example, somebody might picture their home and all the 304 00:17:33,160 --> 00:17:35,960 Speaker 3: rooms in their home, and they will place the images 305 00:17:36,040 --> 00:17:39,280 Speaker 3: in different rooms, and they'll form a pathway in their 306 00:17:39,320 --> 00:17:41,960 Speaker 3: mind's eye as they're visiting the different rooms in their house. 307 00:17:42,080 --> 00:17:46,240 Speaker 1: Let's say this is a well known method for memorizing 308 00:17:46,280 --> 00:17:49,680 Speaker 1: things Let's say you want to memorize a random sequence 309 00:17:49,720 --> 00:17:55,800 Speaker 1: of words like key, woman, kangaroo, hair dryer, dinosaur. Those 310 00:17:55,840 --> 00:17:58,480 Speaker 1: words are a little hard to memorize on their own, 311 00:17:59,080 --> 00:18:01,720 Speaker 1: so you might instead picture your house or the house 312 00:18:01,800 --> 00:18:05,160 Speaker 1: you grew up in, and then imagine yourself walking through 313 00:18:05,200 --> 00:18:08,639 Speaker 1: that familiar space and finding each of the items in 314 00:18:08,720 --> 00:18:12,680 Speaker 1: a different spot. For example, I walked in the front door, 315 00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:15,600 Speaker 1: and I saw a key right next to the entrance. 316 00:18:15,960 --> 00:18:17,919 Speaker 1: Then I went into the living room and so a 317 00:18:17,960 --> 00:18:21,040 Speaker 1: woman standing there. Then I walked to the kitchen and 318 00:18:21,160 --> 00:18:24,760 Speaker 1: saw a kangaroo, and so on and so on. And 319 00:18:24,800 --> 00:18:28,520 Speaker 1: now imagine extending that walk around your house, adding more 320 00:18:28,560 --> 00:18:31,919 Speaker 1: things to remember in every corner. You can now remember 321 00:18:32,080 --> 00:18:35,720 Speaker 1: long sequences of information, and this works because you're essentially 322 00:18:35,760 --> 00:18:40,000 Speaker 1: associating the things you want to remember do something familiar. 323 00:18:40,880 --> 00:18:44,199 Speaker 3: At The idea is that you're linking kind of arbitrary 324 00:18:44,280 --> 00:18:47,639 Speaker 3: information that doesn't mean a lot to an individual to 325 00:18:47,920 --> 00:18:52,560 Speaker 3: something that's more personally relevant. So picturing your house, for example, 326 00:18:52,600 --> 00:18:55,159 Speaker 3: is something that is personally connected to you. And we 327 00:18:55,200 --> 00:18:58,840 Speaker 3: also know that people do best somewhat better at remembering 328 00:18:59,040 --> 00:19:04,200 Speaker 3: spatial information or visual information, so rich images or rich 329 00:19:04,240 --> 00:19:07,679 Speaker 3: spatial scene is maybe somewhat easier to remember than a 330 00:19:07,720 --> 00:19:08,679 Speaker 3: string of digits. 331 00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:13,199 Speaker 2: I see. Put it in context that my brain likes yeah. 332 00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:13,680 Speaker 3: Yes. 333 00:19:14,520 --> 00:19:17,159 Speaker 1: And another way to remember things more easily is to 334 00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:20,240 Speaker 1: make the things you're trying to remember more about you. 335 00:19:21,560 --> 00:19:24,520 Speaker 3: And so there's another phenomenon called the self reference effect. 336 00:19:24,520 --> 00:19:27,239 Speaker 3: This is separate from superior memory. This pertains to all 337 00:19:27,280 --> 00:19:31,000 Speaker 3: of us. We tend to remember information better when it's 338 00:19:31,040 --> 00:19:34,920 Speaker 3: self referential. And so if we are learning, let's say 339 00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:37,280 Speaker 3: we show up at a lab and they present us 340 00:19:37,480 --> 00:19:41,200 Speaker 3: a list of words, and later we're tested. The words 341 00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:44,320 Speaker 3: that are personally meaningful to us are the words that 342 00:19:44,359 --> 00:19:46,720 Speaker 3: we're going to tend to remember better from that list 343 00:19:46,760 --> 00:19:48,960 Speaker 3: than the ones that don't have kind of a personal 344 00:19:49,160 --> 00:19:51,920 Speaker 3: attachment to them. So, if I give you a list 345 00:19:51,960 --> 00:19:54,600 Speaker 3: of traits and a memory test, and some of those 346 00:19:54,680 --> 00:19:59,640 Speaker 3: traits resonate with you, so it could be funny, or 347 00:20:00,320 --> 00:20:02,879 Speaker 3: it could be the word dad, or it could be 348 00:20:02,920 --> 00:20:08,040 Speaker 3: the word partner, et cetera, and my professor, those words 349 00:20:08,080 --> 00:20:11,200 Speaker 3: were going to remember better than words that don't have 350 00:20:11,320 --> 00:20:13,960 Speaker 3: kind of a personal connection to us. And that's called 351 00:20:13,960 --> 00:20:15,200 Speaker 3: the self reference effect. 352 00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:19,280 Speaker 2: Oh I see, Yeah, we're all a little narcissistic. 353 00:20:18,760 --> 00:20:19,800 Speaker 3: That's right, exactly. 354 00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:19,959 Speaker 2: It. 355 00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:26,160 Speaker 1: So those are memory tricks that memory athletes use. They're more, 356 00:20:26,200 --> 00:20:28,840 Speaker 1: of course, but the idea is that if you use 357 00:20:28,920 --> 00:20:32,560 Speaker 1: them enough and you practice enough, then you could also 358 00:20:32,720 --> 00:20:37,520 Speaker 1: become a memory athlete and memorize potentially thousands of digits 359 00:20:37,520 --> 00:20:41,600 Speaker 1: of pie. Now what's interesting about memory athletes is that 360 00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:45,200 Speaker 1: it really is athletic. You have to train for it, 361 00:20:45,320 --> 00:20:48,120 Speaker 1: you get better over time, and if you don't use it, 362 00:20:48,800 --> 00:20:49,600 Speaker 1: you lose it. 363 00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:54,199 Speaker 3: And so a lot of these individuals will participate in 364 00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:57,600 Speaker 3: these kind of memory championships. Yeah, and before they even 365 00:20:57,720 --> 00:21:01,680 Speaker 3: get there, they're doing a lot with the memory to prepare, 366 00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:04,159 Speaker 3: just like any type of athlete, but prepare for an 367 00:21:04,160 --> 00:21:07,639 Speaker 3: important game. And they do this over and over again. 368 00:21:07,720 --> 00:21:11,920 Speaker 3: They'll practice and it takes hours and hours of training. 369 00:21:12,280 --> 00:21:15,200 Speaker 3: So by the time they get to these memory championships, 370 00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:18,320 Speaker 3: they're very well prepared to remember a lot of information 371 00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:19,080 Speaker 3: really quickly. 372 00:21:19,840 --> 00:21:23,040 Speaker 2: It's interesting that you paid the analogy to athletes and 373 00:21:23,080 --> 00:21:26,560 Speaker 2: that they have to train and prepare for events, meaning 374 00:21:26,600 --> 00:21:29,439 Speaker 2: like if they stop or they'll train, then they won't 375 00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:31,000 Speaker 2: perform or remember as much. 376 00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:34,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, they actually have to engage in what's called maintenance, 377 00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:37,000 Speaker 3: so they have to keep at it. It's not just 378 00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:39,280 Speaker 3: sort of one and done you train for you know, 379 00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:42,879 Speaker 3: one hundred hours. They actually have to, you know, train 380 00:21:42,920 --> 00:21:45,840 Speaker 3: every day or often to keep up those skills. 381 00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:50,200 Speaker 1: Okay, so here's a quick recap so far. Memory athletes 382 00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:53,960 Speaker 1: are one type of super memory, and it's something anyone 383 00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:57,280 Speaker 1: can learn to do. It's about picking the right mnemonic 384 00:21:57,320 --> 00:22:00,480 Speaker 1: device that works for you, then scaling that up, and 385 00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:03,520 Speaker 1: then keep on training. Even you can get to the 386 00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:07,359 Speaker 1: point where you can memorize incredibly long sequences of random 387 00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:11,399 Speaker 1: numbers or words or playing cards. And a big trick 388 00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:13,760 Speaker 1: is to find ways to make what you're trying to 389 00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:17,560 Speaker 1: remember relevant to you, which brings us to the second 390 00:22:17,640 --> 00:22:21,160 Speaker 1: type of super memory. Imagine that you could remember not 391 00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:23,920 Speaker 1: just some things that are relevant to you, but you 392 00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:26,919 Speaker 1: could remember everything that happens to you. And now, I 393 00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:29,560 Speaker 1: imagine what would happen if you couldn't turn it off 394 00:22:29,960 --> 00:22:32,879 Speaker 1: with your head explode. Would it be a gift or 395 00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:35,920 Speaker 1: a curse. When we come back, we'll get to that 396 00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:40,680 Speaker 1: type of super memory, assuming we don't forget. So stay 397 00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:58,640 Speaker 1: with us. We'll be right back. Hey, you remember, Welcome back. 398 00:22:59,119 --> 00:23:03,080 Speaker 1: We're talking about memory. And so far we talked about 399 00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:06,359 Speaker 1: one kind of super memory, which is the one found 400 00:23:06,520 --> 00:23:10,360 Speaker 1: in memory athletes. As we learn from doctor DANIELA. Palumbo, 401 00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:14,320 Speaker 1: a researcher in memory, anyone can be a memory athlete. 402 00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:17,840 Speaker 1: The ability to memorize thousands of digits of pie, or 403 00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:20,720 Speaker 1: to memorize a deck of cards in twenty seconds is 404 00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:24,480 Speaker 1: something that, according to brain studies, can be mostly attributed 405 00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:29,119 Speaker 1: to practice, which means you can be a memory athlete too. 406 00:23:29,280 --> 00:23:31,639 Speaker 1: In fact, one of you could be the next World 407 00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:36,080 Speaker 1: memory champion. Now, as we learned, a trick to memorizing 408 00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:40,040 Speaker 1: long sequences of abstract numbers or words or playing cards 409 00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:45,080 Speaker 1: is to turn the information into something personally relevant or experiential. 410 00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:48,840 Speaker 1: You can imagine, for example, turning a sequence of numbers 411 00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:52,680 Speaker 1: into animals or objects you're familiar with, and then imagine 412 00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:56,360 Speaker 1: yourself walking through a house or a palace and remembering 413 00:23:56,480 --> 00:24:00,560 Speaker 1: running into those animals or objects in different rooms. It's 414 00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:04,439 Speaker 1: a way to turn semantic information into something closer to 415 00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:08,000 Speaker 1: episodic memory, which brings us to the second type of 416 00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:12,600 Speaker 1: super memory, people who remember everything that happens to them. 417 00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:15,159 Speaker 1: We all think we remember what we did in the past, 418 00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:17,920 Speaker 1: but if I asked you, for example, what you had 419 00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:21,919 Speaker 1: for lunch twelve days ago, you would probably say, I 420 00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:25,200 Speaker 1: have no idea, But there are people on this planet 421 00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:28,480 Speaker 1: that would remember that. And not only that, if you 422 00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:31,560 Speaker 1: asked them about any date in the past, say they're 423 00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:34,200 Speaker 1: ready to forty years, they could tell you what day 424 00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:36,919 Speaker 1: of the week it was, where they were, what they 425 00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:39,160 Speaker 1: read in the news or saw on TV that day, 426 00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:43,280 Speaker 1: and yes, what they had for lunch. It's a characteristic 427 00:24:43,359 --> 00:24:49,080 Speaker 1: of some people called highly superior autobiographical memory. Here's how 428 00:24:49,119 --> 00:24:50,800 Speaker 1: doctor Palumbo describes it. 429 00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:53,840 Speaker 3: So you can give them a date, virtually any date, 430 00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:56,119 Speaker 3: and they will tell you what happened to them in 431 00:24:56,160 --> 00:24:58,440 Speaker 3: their life that day. And they're also really good at 432 00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:02,040 Speaker 3: remembering what happened in public, so they can remember media 433 00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:05,320 Speaker 3: events really well. Is in addition to remembering their own 434 00:25:05,359 --> 00:25:06,480 Speaker 3: personal experiences. 435 00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:07,399 Speaker 1: Wow. 436 00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:10,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, So that's the really interesting thing about ah SAM 437 00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:13,359 Speaker 3: is that those with age SAM remember all of it. 438 00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:17,360 Speaker 3: And so they remember they're really kind of inconsequential moments 439 00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:20,919 Speaker 3: of their lives, including what they were wearing an event 440 00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:21,639 Speaker 3: that they went to. 441 00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:24,960 Speaker 2: They have a memory of what they were wearing. 442 00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:27,320 Speaker 3: Yes, exactly. They have a really strong memory of what 443 00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:29,760 Speaker 3: they were wearing and what others were wearing as well. 444 00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:33,280 Speaker 3: So here you have these individuals who remember almost everything 445 00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:34,200 Speaker 3: from their lives. 446 00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:38,800 Speaker 1: Imagine if you remembered everything that ever happened to you. 447 00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:41,800 Speaker 1: But here's the amazing thing. We don't really know how 448 00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:44,560 Speaker 1: many people out there are able to do this. 449 00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:48,400 Speaker 2: How common was this phenomenon of people with age? 450 00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:48,720 Speaker 1: Sam? 451 00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:51,359 Speaker 2: Is it the one and a million, one and a bini? 452 00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:54,040 Speaker 2: What do we know about how often it happens? 453 00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:57,640 Speaker 3: Yeah, so I hate answering with an I don't know, 454 00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:00,879 Speaker 3: But we know how many people have been identified for 455 00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:05,120 Speaker 3: research studies, which is less than one hundred. So there's 456 00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:08,480 Speaker 3: a very small group of individuals who have participated in 457 00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:11,120 Speaker 3: research studies, and some of those studies have been published 458 00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:14,000 Speaker 3: and some of them are forthcoming. But we don't know 459 00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:16,560 Speaker 3: if it's more common than that. 460 00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:19,800 Speaker 1: That's right, we don't know how often this phenomenon happens. 461 00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:22,600 Speaker 1: Now you might be thinking, can we just figure out 462 00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:26,680 Speaker 1: who has it and count them? Well, it's not that easy. 463 00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:31,520 Speaker 3: That's because, at least based on the accounts of people 464 00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:35,600 Speaker 3: who have been identified, many of them did not realize 465 00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:38,960 Speaker 3: that their memory was any different from others until they 466 00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:42,600 Speaker 3: were adults. Or in adolescents, And so it could be 467 00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:45,159 Speaker 3: that a lot of people are going around with this 468 00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:49,080 Speaker 3: really amazing memory ability, but they don't realize that other 469 00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:50,400 Speaker 3: people don't have it as well. 470 00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:53,960 Speaker 2: They didn't realize other people can't remember everything about their lives. 471 00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:54,720 Speaker 3: Wow. 472 00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:59,160 Speaker 1: Yes, if you happen to remember everything that ever happens 473 00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:02,439 Speaker 1: to you, you know that's not common. You should contact 474 00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:06,320 Speaker 1: a scientists right away so they can study this better. Okay, 475 00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:09,200 Speaker 1: I had a lot of questions about this. First of all, 476 00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:12,359 Speaker 1: how is this possible? What's going on in the brains 477 00:27:12,359 --> 00:27:16,000 Speaker 1: of people with h SAM that gives them this superpower? 478 00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:19,320 Speaker 1: Is there a limit to what they can remember? And 479 00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:23,200 Speaker 1: is this a give or a curse? Will start For 480 00:27:23,280 --> 00:27:24,360 Speaker 1: the first question. 481 00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:29,480 Speaker 2: How is this possible? Like how can an individual fit 482 00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:30,919 Speaker 2: so much in their heads? 483 00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:34,600 Speaker 3: I know, it's fascinating, right, It's a big puzzle. So 484 00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:38,560 Speaker 3: the why question is what stumps a lot of researchers. 485 00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:42,159 Speaker 3: There's some hints and so, for example, one group of 486 00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:46,680 Speaker 3: researchers looked at whether individuals with h SAM differ in 487 00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:49,960 Speaker 3: the way they remember memories that are recent, let's say 488 00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:53,720 Speaker 3: a week ago, versus events that they encoded a month ago, 489 00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:55,359 Speaker 3: six months ago, et cetera. 490 00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:59,960 Speaker 1: So this is a pretty cool experiment. Scientists ask people 491 00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:05,040 Speaker 1: with and without highly superior autobiographical memory to remember something 492 00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:08,000 Speaker 1: that's happened to them a week ago, you know what 493 00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:11,240 Speaker 1: they remember? How much detail they remember, And it turned 494 00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:14,080 Speaker 1: out that there wasn't much of a difference between the 495 00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:14,920 Speaker 1: two groups. 496 00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:19,399 Speaker 3: H SAM individuals did not differ from non h SAM 497 00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:23,480 Speaker 3: individuals in their memory for events that were really really new. 498 00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:25,959 Speaker 3: So those memories that were a week or less than 499 00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:27,280 Speaker 3: a week old, what do. 500 00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:29,280 Speaker 2: You mean, they didn't differ. What does it mean? 501 00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:32,520 Speaker 3: So they were conjure up just as many details, the 502 00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:34,879 Speaker 3: same amount of details as a person who does not 503 00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:36,040 Speaker 3: have ah SAM. 504 00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:40,040 Speaker 1: So for recent memories, things that happened just a few 505 00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:42,760 Speaker 1: days ago, you and I are just as good as 506 00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:46,480 Speaker 1: people with h SAM super memory and remembering what happened. 507 00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:49,920 Speaker 1: But then in the experiment, they also asked people to 508 00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:54,400 Speaker 1: remember things that happened further back, say a few weeks ago. 509 00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:59,000 Speaker 3: However, when they looked at those older memories, so the 510 00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:01,840 Speaker 3: memories that were more more than a week old, then 511 00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:05,600 Speaker 3: you saw very large differences between individuals with h SAM 512 00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:10,040 Speaker 3: and individuals without. And so the folks without ah SAM 513 00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:13,560 Speaker 3: were forgetting a lot of those details, whereas the individuals 514 00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:16,440 Speaker 3: with h SAM were holding on to those details for 515 00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:20,080 Speaker 3: a longer period of time. And so that's really important 516 00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:24,360 Speaker 3: finding because it hints at this idea that perhaps individuals 517 00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:28,360 Speaker 3: with h SAM don't encode memories differently from those who 518 00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:31,440 Speaker 3: do not have ah SAM, but there's something about laying 519 00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:34,520 Speaker 3: down those memory traces so that they're more permanent that 520 00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:37,040 Speaker 3: may differ in individuals with h SAM. 521 00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:41,240 Speaker 2: Wow, meaning that people with a SAM are just as 522 00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:44,440 Speaker 2: good at getting memories. They seem to be better at 523 00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:45,840 Speaker 2: keeping memories. 524 00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:48,200 Speaker 3: Exactly yes, that's a perfect way to put. 525 00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:51,640 Speaker 2: It, oh fascinating, meaning that they're just good at not 526 00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:53,920 Speaker 2: forgetting exactly yes, exactly. 527 00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:57,719 Speaker 1: So this is interesting because it tells you that people 528 00:29:57,840 --> 00:30:01,640 Speaker 1: with this kind of super memory taking the world pretty 529 00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:04,600 Speaker 1: much the same way the rest of us do. It's 530 00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:07,600 Speaker 1: not like they experience more or they pay attention to 531 00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:11,400 Speaker 1: more details or have a heightened sense of going through life. 532 00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:15,040 Speaker 1: They process the world just like we do, except whereas 533 00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:18,240 Speaker 1: for most of us, most memories just fade away, for 534 00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:23,640 Speaker 1: people with AHSAM, it all sticks. We'll talk more about 535 00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:27,280 Speaker 1: how the brain encodes memories later, but here's another fascinating 536 00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:30,360 Speaker 1: thing about people with this kind of super memory. People 537 00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:33,600 Speaker 1: with ah SAM are extremely good at remembering what happened 538 00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:38,280 Speaker 1: to them, but they're not particularly good at remembering other things. 539 00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:42,840 Speaker 3: The h SAM is quite unique in that individuals who 540 00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:48,040 Speaker 3: have it are really good at remembering autobiographical content, and 541 00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:51,680 Speaker 3: they don't necessarily excel when it comes to remembering other 542 00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:55,280 Speaker 3: kinds of information. And so, if you bring individuals with 543 00:30:55,520 --> 00:30:59,400 Speaker 3: h SAM into the laboratory and you give them memory tests, 544 00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:03,640 Speaker 3: for example, tests that involve words or images, et cetera, 545 00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:07,600 Speaker 3: then they do not perform any better than individuals who 546 00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:09,840 Speaker 3: do not have aach SAM. Wow, so it has to 547 00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:13,120 Speaker 3: be autobiographical in nature for them to remember it. 548 00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:13,400 Speaker 2: Well. 549 00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:16,680 Speaker 1: Now, I know what you're probably thinking right now, which is, 550 00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:20,240 Speaker 1: if you remembered everything that ever happened to you, why 551 00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:21,960 Speaker 1: didn't you run out of space in your head for 552 00:31:22,040 --> 00:31:23,000 Speaker 1: all those memories? 553 00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:23,520 Speaker 3: Like? 554 00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:27,240 Speaker 1: What's the limit of this super memory? I asked doctor 555 00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:28,520 Speaker 1: Palombo this question. 556 00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:31,680 Speaker 2: How can to be in your room in the brain 557 00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:33,720 Speaker 2: to remember everything you do in your life? 558 00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:35,800 Speaker 3: That is such a good question, and I think we 559 00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:40,640 Speaker 3: just don't know. And so it's surprising that individuals can 560 00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:42,240 Speaker 3: remember this much information. 561 00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:45,040 Speaker 2: Do you think there's a limit to how much we 562 00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:46,400 Speaker 2: can you remember in our brains? 563 00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:49,000 Speaker 3: We used to think so, but I think people with 564 00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:50,760 Speaker 3: h SAM make us. 565 00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:56,520 Speaker 2: Question that maybe the limit is much higher than you think. Yeah, exactly, Okay. 566 00:31:56,600 --> 00:31:58,800 Speaker 1: The last question I asked doctor Plumbo about this type 567 00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:02,320 Speaker 1: of super memory was whether being able to remember everything 568 00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:06,080 Speaker 1: that's ever happened to you is a gift or a curse. 569 00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:10,120 Speaker 3: If you talk to different individuals, what they have in 570 00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:13,680 Speaker 3: common is that they all remember events in rich and 571 00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:17,200 Speaker 3: vivid detail. But the way that they feel about having 572 00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:20,480 Speaker 3: really good memory differs from one individual to the next. 573 00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:24,080 Speaker 3: So some will refer to their age SAM as a gift, 574 00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:29,080 Speaker 3: and some feel less enthusiastic about having such a good memory. 575 00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:33,200 Speaker 3: For example, there's one individual with h SAM named Mary 576 00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:37,640 Speaker 3: Lou Henner, and she's a famous actress, and she describes 577 00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:40,960 Speaker 3: her ah SAM as a gift, and she describes that 578 00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:44,840 Speaker 3: it is something that she uses in her occupation as 579 00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:48,000 Speaker 3: an actress, that she has fun with it. She really 580 00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:51,320 Speaker 3: just enjoys having a really good memory, and so for 581 00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:54,360 Speaker 3: her it is something that she really appreciates. 582 00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:57,880 Speaker 1: So some people really like having this kind of super memory. 583 00:32:58,120 --> 00:33:01,280 Speaker 1: But others describe it is a bit of a curse. 584 00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:04,320 Speaker 1: One well known person with h SAM, a woman in 585 00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:07,840 Speaker 1: her fifties from Los Angeles called Jill Price, can remember 586 00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:10,800 Speaker 1: what she did almost every single day of her life. 587 00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:13,520 Speaker 1: She even says she has memories of being a toddler 588 00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:16,479 Speaker 1: in her crip. It's like she has the camera record 589 00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:20,360 Speaker 1: button on all the time. And she describes the experience 590 00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:24,640 Speaker 1: of having this kind of super memory as quote, NonStop, 591 00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:28,120 Speaker 1: uncontrollable and totally exhausting. 592 00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:31,960 Speaker 3: There are some individuals who do feel that way, yes, 593 00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:35,360 Speaker 3: and that sometimes their memories can be really distracting for them. 594 00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:39,440 Speaker 3: So what is common across many individuals with h SAM 595 00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:42,360 Speaker 3: is the automaticity of their memories, so they come back 596 00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:45,440 Speaker 3: to them really, really easily and very quickly. But there 597 00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:48,160 Speaker 3: are times when remembering is not the task at hand, 598 00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:50,640 Speaker 3: when we have to pay attention in the classroom, or 599 00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:53,400 Speaker 3: when we have a very demanding job, and so for 600 00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:57,040 Speaker 3: some individuals they have described it as distracting and even 601 00:33:57,120 --> 00:34:01,480 Speaker 3: difficult because all their memories are really vivid, including the 602 00:34:01,560 --> 00:34:02,200 Speaker 3: bad ones. 603 00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:07,400 Speaker 1: And that brings us to the topic of forgetting. Oh wait, 604 00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:09,839 Speaker 1: I forgot to tell you. This is actually a two 605 00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:13,920 Speaker 1: part episode about super memory. We talked about people with 606 00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:17,560 Speaker 1: amazing abilities to remember a lot of things, but what 607 00:34:17,680 --> 00:34:21,960 Speaker 1: about the opposite, What about people with amazing abilities to 608 00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:26,719 Speaker 1: forget or with the lack of ability to make new memories. 609 00:34:27,200 --> 00:34:30,800 Speaker 1: Do you remember watching the movie Memento or finding dorri 610 00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:35,480 Speaker 1: Well that happens to real people. On our next episode, 611 00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:39,319 Speaker 1: we'll talk about how the brain forgets memories, what it's 612 00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:43,240 Speaker 1: like to live completely in the moment without memory, without 613 00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:46,480 Speaker 1: the burden of the past. So don't forget to come 614 00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:53,240 Speaker 1: back see you next week. You've been listening to Science 615 00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:58,040 Speaker 1: Stuff production of iHeartRadio, written and produced by me Or Hitcham, 616 00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:02,520 Speaker 1: credited by Rose Seguda, executive producer Jerry Rowland, and audio 617 00:35:02,560 --> 00:35:05,680 Speaker 1: engineer and mixer Kasey Peckram. And you can follow me 618 00:35:05,719 --> 00:35:08,799 Speaker 1: on social media. Just search for PhD Comics and the 619 00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:11,480 Speaker 1: name of your favorite platform. Be sure to subscribe to 620 00:35:11,560 --> 00:35:14,920 Speaker 1: Sign Stuff on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 621 00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:18,120 Speaker 1: you get your podcasts, and please tell your friends We'll 622 00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:27,640 Speaker 1: be back next Wednesday with another episode.