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Speaker 1: If this is the me Eater podcast, coming at you.

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Speaker 2: Shirtless, severely, bug bitten, and in my case, underwear. Listening toast,

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Speaker 2: you can't predict anything.

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Speaker 3: Presented by First Light, creating proven versatile hunting apparel from

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Speaker 3: Marino bass layers to technical outerwear. For every hunt, First Light,

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Speaker 3: go farther, stay longer. Okay, everybody, we're coming at you

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Speaker 3: from Kansas Union Town. Not well, kind of new Walnut

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Speaker 3: Union Town. Yep, that's the voice of Jason Phelps. Seth

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Speaker 3: Morris is here. We're on Phelps that had been to

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Speaker 3: this property before and Seth yep. Uh doing a bit

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Speaker 3: of logging, little timber felling. I had to show Phelps

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Speaker 3: out of feltree. Yeah. Then we got tacked by chiggers. Yep,

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Speaker 3: ticks tiggers and then uh and now we're back. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So two summers ago, two summers going ye sure.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, July two summers sold them last year, remember falling

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Speaker 2: here chiggers man.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, this Chiggers story is worth telling. So we

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Speaker 3: came and we selected a big walnut tree. We're on

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Speaker 3: the front of your How did you how do you

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Speaker 3: know Randy.

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Speaker 2: So mutual friend Chris Parrish. Oh, he talks about him all, yeah, yeah, great,

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Speaker 2: one of the best turkey colors of all time. Got

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Speaker 2: got to know Chris really well, and we were just

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Speaker 2: trying to plant a turkey hunt together, and He's like,

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Speaker 2: you know what, I think I got a one of

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Speaker 2: my buddies in Kansas, might let us do that hunt here.

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Speaker 2: So we came out met Randy three years ago turkey

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Speaker 2: hunt and got to be good buds from God. And

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Speaker 2: then so we had an idea where we wanted to

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Speaker 2: make turkey calls but cut the trees down and just

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Speaker 2: kind of go through the whole thing and you'd get

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Speaker 2: all the raw timber a lumber.

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Speaker 3: Yes, yep. So we came out here to Randy's place

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Speaker 3: and got a walnut tree not far from what we

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Speaker 3: later I didn't know at the time, but not far

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Speaker 3: from Walnut, Kansas. And we had some walnut experts come out.

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Speaker 3: We picked a walnut tree, sawed it down, picked an

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Speaker 3: oceage orange.

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Speaker 2: Barberchared it.

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Speaker 3: Barbecared another dudes from like the twelfth generation of loggers,

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Speaker 3: and then and the barber chared.

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Speaker 2: We don't cut trees. I'm not making any excuses. I

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Speaker 2: barbarer schared it. But they with this whole like little

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Speaker 2: teeny front cut, enter your saw halfway and cut your

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Speaker 2: way out the back.

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Speaker 3: That was special to cut. That's why I still screwed

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Speaker 3: it up. Yeah, they got away of felling. They got

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Speaker 3: away of felling walnuts where I never I wasn't really

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Speaker 3: familiar with that. No, like high end, like high end

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Speaker 3: veneer logs. They're basically taking that thing down to the

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Speaker 3: dirt yep and not cutting a wedge, because you could

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Speaker 3: be cutting hundreds of dollars. You could be cutting like

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Speaker 3: hundreds of dollars out of that tree yep, cutting the wedge.

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Speaker 3: So what do you even call that little process?

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Speaker 2: So yeah, they cut maybe a three inch face cut,

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Speaker 2: and then they just dog their saw in burrow hole

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Speaker 2: through it. You dog the tip of the bar in

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Speaker 2: behind that hollow it all out, get yourself squared up

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Speaker 2: to that that notch, and then you just cut your

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Speaker 2: way out the back.

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Speaker 3: And uh yeah, when you're done, dude, it's like it

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Speaker 3: looks like paving stones. Man. I mean that thing is

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Speaker 3: you haven't wasted anything. But I like that method. But

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Speaker 3: I was like the whole time, I was like, so

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Speaker 3: does the tree come down on me? Where's the tree go? Cut?

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Speaker 3: The wallet down, cut some osage orne down, and I

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Speaker 3: remember when we got the walnut I think we had

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Speaker 3: in our head. We're like, we're calling it a thousand

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Speaker 3: pot tree, and I want to be pretty close.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, a little slightly over, but yep.

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Speaker 3: And and made these calls with that, made strikers with

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Speaker 3: the osage range. I haven't tell you I lost my

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Speaker 3: striker I got. I might have excell but I also

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Speaker 3: have a striker with sentimental value. So anyways, and then

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Speaker 3: we made all the walnut pots and what we wanted

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Speaker 3: to do. But on this podcast, I'm I was joking

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Speaker 3: about sweep steaks and raffle law, being like, if I

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Speaker 3: could go back in time and take another career path,

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Speaker 3: I would go into sweep. I'd become a lawyer and

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Speaker 3: specialize in sweep steaks and raffle law. We wanted to

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Speaker 3: have them be that they all had a number. It's

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Speaker 3: called the line one call, and they all have a number.

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Speaker 3: We wanted to be that we'd sell them and then

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Speaker 3: get all those ping pong balls with numbers on them

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Speaker 3: and it blows them in the wind. We're going to

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Speaker 3: make our own the leaf bloor and then you grab

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Speaker 3: a ping pong ball out and whoever that number has

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Speaker 3: that call. We were then going to take them back

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Speaker 3: to the same property to hunt turkeys. We just thought

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Speaker 3: it'd be fun, and we went through it the whole

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Speaker 3: plan until we realized that according to the to the

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Speaker 3: Vagaries of sweep Steaks and Raffle law, you can't do

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Speaker 3: that or it's very cumbersome, like free entries and all

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Speaker 3: of this just every time you go to it's like

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Speaker 3: a every time you go to give something away and

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Speaker 3: a lawyer looks out like, you can't do that. So

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Speaker 3: instead what we did is we just did it. But

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Speaker 3: and then later after the fact picked someone and called

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Speaker 3: him and took him turkey Hunt, but he still out

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Speaker 3: Turkey Hunt. Me and Phelips are tagged out. Guy, This

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Speaker 3: looks bad, dude that we're tagged out, but our guy

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Speaker 3: hasn't gotten one yet. He's gonna be like, so I

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Speaker 3: won this, like Turkey Hunt and the guys that were

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Speaker 3: supposed to be taking these shots and I didn't. You

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Speaker 3: had to get on that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it doesn't, it doesn't. It doesn't sound as bad

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Speaker 2: if we were to explain.

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Speaker 3: Well, no, we did because I went so I went

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Speaker 3: out with him. I went out with the winner opening

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Speaker 3: morning and the landowner. So you got like the landowner

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Speaker 3: advantage and.

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Speaker 2: The spot that hadn't been hunted all year yet.

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Speaker 3: So like the spot that hadn't been hunted landowner who's

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Speaker 3: a very good turkey hunter, very serious hunter, owns the place,

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Speaker 3: it's been hunting here for decades, went to right, stacked

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Speaker 3: the deck in the winter's favor. Phelps got one, so

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Speaker 3: then we moved him over. Yeah he got to a

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Speaker 3: crappy guy and yeah, but then we had like the

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Speaker 3: landowner's buddy even making sure that everything's like we can

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Speaker 3: go there, can't go there, just bad luck. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Well, and to be fair, he has had a terrific time. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and some great hunts and he learned a lot. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: hopefully he'll close the deal.

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Speaker 3: I got Jake.

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Speaker 2: He might not want Jake. I think Jake's are hoping

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Speaker 2: for him today. I mean, yeah, he's I think he's been,

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Speaker 2: like he said, he'll remember this morning for like the

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Speaker 2: most picturesque turkey hunt ever. It was was pretty cool.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, I just you know, I think we got

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Speaker 2: a couple of couple of good birds within sixty yards.

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Speaker 2: It's not real comfortable taking the which is fine. Like

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Speaker 2: I have a ton of respect for you know, he

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Speaker 2: wanted him forty and in. But yeah, Turkey's being turkeys

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Speaker 2: and doing what they want to do.

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Speaker 3: I told you about my kid. I kind of like

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Speaker 3: bad mentoring. That worked out good, but he I still

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Speaker 3: he killed her g at seventy yards, you know, poke

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Speaker 3: and well, I don't know if I told you, but

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Speaker 3: he's like, he said, I'm gonna he's gonna take He's

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Speaker 3: like he wants to take the beard and fill that

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Speaker 3: shell full of hot glue and stick the beard down

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Speaker 3: in the empty shell. And he said, and I'm going

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Speaker 3: to write the yardage on that shell. He's like, listen,

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Speaker 3: tell him, I said, listen, man. Usually people drag bag

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Speaker 3: about how close the turkey friend about No, he thinks

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Speaker 3: it's great now. He thinks yeah, he already thinks he's

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Speaker 3: invincible because he one time, like we're going down a

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Speaker 3: big hill hunting deer, and I got out ahead of

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Speaker 3: him and he was just lolly gagging behind me, and

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Speaker 3: we're kind of like done doing what we're doing, and

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Speaker 3: we're just kind of in the regroup phase, you know,

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Speaker 3: headed back down the hill. But we'll figure out what's next.

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Speaker 3: We blew it, and all of a sudden, we jump

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Speaker 3: buck and I turn around, I like register the buck's presence,

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Speaker 3: and I turn around to see that he's up and

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Speaker 3: his buck is running. And as I'm going no, as

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Speaker 3: I go yeah, drops it, I'm like, oh my god.

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Speaker 3: So now he's like, you know, he just thinks he's

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Speaker 3: He's like John Wayne Now, man, I think it's John

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Speaker 3: Wayne now, dude. It's like he just thinks that just

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Speaker 3: this whole everything he's been told about distances and running

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Speaker 3: is you're to slow him down.

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Speaker 1: Man.

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Speaker 3: It's everybody trying to slow down.

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Speaker 2: People without the skill set he has can't do it.

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Speaker 3: Also joined by Craig Harper, professor of Wildlife Management at

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Speaker 3: University of Tennessee and Knoxville. I assumed you were from

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Speaker 3: Tennessee for some stupid reasons, but you're not.

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Speaker 1: No, from North Carolina. Tenth generation. Family has been there

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Speaker 1: a long time, just west of Winston Salem. A good

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Speaker 1: place to be from.

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Speaker 3: What does that go by? Tenth generation? What's that mean?

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Speaker 3: When'd your family get.

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Speaker 1: There in the mid seventeen hundreds. Dang, really long history,

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Speaker 1: been there a long time, used to have a lot

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Speaker 1: of land now it's whittled down to a postage stamp.

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Speaker 1: With all of the generations so carving everything up, there's

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Speaker 1: still a heavenly piece of early successional vegetation right there

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Speaker 1: in the middle of all the suburban development and Winston

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Speaker 1: Salem expanding, where all kinds of wildlife that enjoy that

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Speaker 1: type of vegetation are very happy. They still hang out there.

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Speaker 3: You were talking about after you fell out of that.

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Speaker 3: You told us a great story about falling out of

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Speaker 3: a tree stand and getting all crippled up. Yes, and

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Speaker 3: then you went out to hunt your favorite holler. That's correct.

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Speaker 1: If it wasn't from my uncle and dad and cousin,

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Speaker 1: that wouldn't have happened. I couldn't get around, so they

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Speaker 1: essentially helped carry me and get me in position. And

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Speaker 1: there I sat, and a deer walked up late in

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Speaker 1: the evening and I was able to shoot it, and

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Speaker 1: of course I couldn't go get it. They had to

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Speaker 1: do all of the work. But that was a real

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Speaker 1: blessing from God right there. Number one to live and

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Speaker 1: number two to be able to get some of my

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Speaker 1: sanity back after laying in the bed for months, not

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Speaker 1: knowing if I'd walk again, you.

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Speaker 3: Know, we have a guy. We have a friend who's

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Speaker 3: an emergency room doctor in Michigan, and he's a hunter,

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Speaker 3: and he's taken a great interest in tree stand accidents.

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Speaker 3: I was in a point in the direction because he's

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Speaker 3: actually published tree stand accidents and what happens, why it happens,

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Speaker 3: the suite of injuries that comes.

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Speaker 1: So much of that can be prevented. In my case,

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Speaker 1: I was not hunting, as we talked about. I was

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Speaker 1: actually checking cameras and I came upon this stand that

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Speaker 1: I had not hunted in four years and had forgotten

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Speaker 1: that it was there. And I knew the straps would

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Speaker 1: be bad. So you know, I climbed up to take

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Speaker 1: the straps off and take a stand down and figured

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Speaker 1: i'd come back later, and you know, put the stand.

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Speaker 3: Back up in new straps.

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Speaker 1: But the straps appeared fine, and so you know, it's

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Speaker 1: pretty dumb.

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Speaker 3: Even took them off, even took them off and looked

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Speaker 3: at them.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I took them off, and everything looked good. They

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Speaker 1: weren't afraid, didn't look like squirrels had chewed them, whatever.

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Speaker 1: They seemed just to be perfectly fine. I put them

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Speaker 1: back on it with the ratchet strap and thing, you know,

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Speaker 1: banjo string tight.

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Speaker 3: All was good.

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Speaker 1: But and there was a big limb and grabbed hold

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Speaker 1: of the limb and you know, felt the stand before

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Speaker 1: I got in it, and then got in it and

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Speaker 1: kind of, you know, put all my weight on it,

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Speaker 1: jumped up and down, et cetera. It was solid as

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Speaker 1: a rock, the bottom strap was. But then when my

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Speaker 1: butt hit the seat, it's just like a twenty two

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Speaker 1: rifle going off and down I went, you know, like

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Speaker 1: a trap door straight down.

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Speaker 3: Oh man, Yeah, it was that spot was that.

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Speaker 1: Don't climb without some type of safety harness and something

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Speaker 1: keeping you up there. It's a pretty simple thing to do.

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Speaker 1: It's easy to climb up without it because we're all

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Speaker 1: in a hurry, you know whatever.

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Speaker 3: But that's it's risky. Tell people real quick, Craig, what

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Speaker 3: you do, what kind of research you do, then we'll

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Speaker 3: get into it. Have you duty in a little bit.

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Speaker 1: I've been at the University of Tennessee since nineteen ninety eight.

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Speaker 1: As you mentioned, I'm a professor of Wildlife Management and

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Speaker 1: the Extension Wildlife special List. So my primary responsibility is

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Speaker 1: developing wildlife management programs, especially for the extension agents throughout

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Speaker 1: the state and helping them with concerns with wildlife that

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Speaker 1: come in from clientele in the counties, but I work

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Speaker 1: in lots of other states. I work very closely with

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Speaker 1: state wildlife agencies. Obviously, I conduct research I have since

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Speaker 1: I got there. Although my primary responsibility, of course is extension.

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Speaker 1: We also have the freedom to do research or to

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Speaker 1: teaching the classroom if you wish, But all of my

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Speaker 1: research is directed towards applied land management the vast majority anyway,

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Speaker 1: So how can you manage land to better wildlife? Obviously

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Speaker 1: create better wildlife habitat for various species. And something else

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Speaker 1: concentrate in that I've gotten into over the past several

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Speaker 1: years is how to manage land for better hunting? You know,

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Speaker 1: how can you set up your property such that the

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Speaker 1: hunting is better, you're more successful. So that that's been

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Speaker 1: very rewarding to work with landowners all over the place

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Speaker 1: and help them with some of that.

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Speaker 3: God, and you do a bunch of work on turkeys.

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Speaker 1: Yes, we have been a part of several turkey studies

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Speaker 1: and we have one right now. It's still going on.

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Speaker 1: We're in the seventh year. It's been very very interesting.

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Speaker 3: What's that really just tell me the real quick snapshot version,

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Speaker 3: and we're going to we'll get back to it.

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Speaker 1: We have looked at the survival habitat use of wild

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Speaker 1: turkeys in an area of Tennessee that had experienced a

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Speaker 1: population decline, and we involved counties where the decline was

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Speaker 1: happening as well as adjacent counties that there was no decline,

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Speaker 1: and so we were able to do that for four years,

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Speaker 1: looking at all of the reproductive parameters, survival, habitat use, movements,

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Speaker 1: et cetera for four years. And then the Tennessee Wildlife

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Speaker 1: Resources Agency their commission voted in a two week season

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Speaker 1: delay and that was implemented in those counties where the

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Speaker 1: population had been declining, and so we were able to

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Speaker 1: follow that for two years. So we have before and

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Speaker 1: after data upon implementing that delay in both treatment counties

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Speaker 1: where the delay occurred, as well as control counties for

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Speaker 1: the delay did not occur. So that's been very interesting

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Speaker 1: to see if the delay influenced reproductive reproduction in any way.

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Speaker 3: I want to I want to talk about that a

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Speaker 3: whole bunch because because folks might not yet appreciate the

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Speaker 3: significance of what you're saying, so we get into it

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Speaker 3: a little bit more, but people had to freaked out.

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Speaker 3: If you tell a bunch of people that they're going

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Speaker 3: to hunt turkeys, that turkey sees is going to be

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Speaker 3: delayed by two weeks. So some scientists can do some research.

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Speaker 3: I can imagine people being pissed.

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Speaker 1: Buying larger correct, But you know when it's couched in

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Speaker 1: a way that hey, we're doing this to help turkeys.

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Speaker 1: You know, turkey hunters and hunters in general, they want

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Speaker 1: to do what's best for the resource. And so you

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Speaker 1: might be surprised at the percentage of people. And we've

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Speaker 1: done surveys every year within the treatment and the control counties,

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Speaker 1: and about roughly half of them were perfectly fine with

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Speaker 1: the delay. Probably a quarter didn't really feel one way

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Speaker 1: or another towards it, and of course another quarter was

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Speaker 1: very much against it. Sure, and that's largely remained constant

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Speaker 1: through the period. And now we're in the seventh year

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Speaker 1: and we'll have another round of surveys going out this

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Speaker 1: spring because last year the Commission voted to implement the

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Speaker 1: two week delay statewide, so all of Tennessee this year.

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Speaker 1: The turkey season opened April fifteenth, which traditionally it opened

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Speaker 1: on the Saturday closest to April the first God.

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Speaker 3: All right, stay tuned everybody, because we're gonna get way

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Speaker 3: into why. Like I said, you might be wondering why

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Speaker 3: that matters, but we're gonna get into why all that matters.

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Speaker 3: I think you'll find it interesting. But first couple of things,

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Speaker 3: a couple promo issues. So Casey and Tyler from The

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Speaker 3: Element have launched on our on the me eater YouTube channel.

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Speaker 3: The Bock Truck series will drop every Tuesday through June

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Speaker 3: thirteenth on YouTube and the meat Eater site. So tune

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00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:53,320
Speaker 3: in for those boys and so Element episodes of the

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Speaker 3: Bock Truck on me Eater's YouTube starting now. And huge

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Speaker 3: new giveaway. I don't even know about this. I'm gonna

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00:18:01,560 --> 00:18:09,960
Speaker 3: win this. We're launching a huge giveaway, so you get

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Speaker 3: a chance to win three thousand bucks in hunting gear

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Speaker 3: from all our brands, along with a personalized outfit and

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Speaker 3: session with our very own Gianness. He tell us, you know,

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Speaker 3: I'm doing one of these outfitting sessions. I'm actually going

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Speaker 3: all the way down to Haley, Idaho, to the First

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Speaker 3: Light Store because I agree to do one of these

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Speaker 3: to the First Light Store to meet someone and then

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00:18:32,040 --> 00:18:35,600
Speaker 3: I'm gonna be like their personal stylist and set them

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00:18:35,720 --> 00:18:37,320
Speaker 3: up with all kinds of hunting gear at the First

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00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:40,280
Speaker 3: Light store in Haley, Idahog. We're gonna hang out and

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Speaker 3: I'm gonna be like, hey might want these and these.

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00:18:44,480 --> 00:18:46,840
Speaker 3: So for your chance to win three thousand bucks and

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00:18:46,920 --> 00:18:51,040
Speaker 3: gear from all of our brands, so FHF Felts, First

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Speaker 3: Light and a personalized outfitting session with Giannis where Giannis

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Speaker 3: goes over what you need, why you want it? Okay,

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Speaker 3: what are your plans this year? You win?

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Speaker 1: All?

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00:19:03,320 --> 00:19:05,879
Speaker 3: This runs now through May twenty one, so head over

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00:19:05,960 --> 00:19:10,240
Speaker 3: to the meaeater dot com slash giveaway to to enter.

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00:19:11,119 --> 00:19:15,239
Speaker 3: The winner will be randomly picked and contacted on May

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Speaker 3: twenty second. Oh the other day I was drawn. I

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Speaker 3: drew the hat for who wins next year's free Turkey

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Speaker 3: Hunt t RCP Turkey Hunt. It's a dude out of Austin, Texas.

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Speaker 2: Is that all you're giving right now?

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Speaker 3: It's all I know right now? Oh, they haven't made

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Speaker 3: I mean some name that I forgot out of Austin, Texas.

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Speaker 1: Are you coming back here?

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Speaker 3: Nope? We do it every year in Michigan. That's to

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Speaker 3: raise money for TRSP and we raised a boatload of

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Speaker 3: money this year. Nice, yeah, we did that. That that

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Speaker 3: that rat that fundraiser did a lot, and then in

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Speaker 3: a couple of days we're hunting with last year's winner.

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Speaker 3: This here's the thing that came across that someone sent

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Speaker 3: in and I didn't believe it, but we've verified that

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Speaker 3: it's true. Remember, you know, everybody's all worked up about

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Speaker 3: chat chat, GPT, end of the world and everything. Okay,

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Speaker 3: first off, all right, so what everybody likes to do

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Speaker 3: is is they like to go on these and the

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Speaker 3: into the chat bots, you know, the chat GPT, and

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Speaker 3: ask you a question and and then you know, use

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Speaker 3: artificial intelligence to pull you up a model. What I

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Speaker 3: always like to point out to people that as a writer,

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Speaker 3: and everybody will tell me why I should be worried

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00:20:31,040 --> 00:20:33,240
Speaker 3: about this as around, it's not like it doesn't bother

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Speaker 3: me because it's only harnessing what's already been done by people.

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Speaker 3: So if you were already doing things that were original

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Speaker 3: to people, it's not that much of a concern. It's

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Speaker 3: like looking at what's been done, but it can't look

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Speaker 3: at what's not been done.

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Speaker 4: Maybe in the future, though it can take it can

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Speaker 4: look at everything that's been done and predict things that

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Speaker 4: could happen in the future.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, like, well I win that three thousand dollars packaging

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00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:10,080
Speaker 3: sign up. So they've coded in this one has where

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Speaker 3: they've coded in an anti hunting bias.

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Speaker 1: Imagine that, uh so AI.

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Speaker 3: Artificial intelligence could be our so whole intelligence AI as

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Speaker 3: an Okay, So this guy goes into this guy goes

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Speaker 3: into chat chat GPT and says, what is the best

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Speaker 3: way to hunt deer in Alabama? Got it? And the answer?

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00:21:40,240 --> 00:21:43,639
Speaker 3: It kicks back. As an AI language model, I do

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Speaker 3: not encourage or endorse hunting or any activity that involves

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Speaker 3: harming animals. Here's where Here's where it gets good. However,

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Speaker 3: I can't provide some general information about hunting deer in Alabama.

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Speaker 3: He types in what is the best way to hunt

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Speaker 3: Eastern gobblers in West Tennessee near the Mississippi border. As

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Speaker 3: an AI language model, I do not encourage or endorse

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Speaker 3: hunting or any activity that involves hiring the animals. However,

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00:22:13,960 --> 00:22:18,040
Speaker 3: I can't provide some general information about hunting eastern gobblers

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00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:22,879
Speaker 3: in West Tennessee near the Mississippi border. And then it

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Speaker 3: goes down to have like a lot of very Manila,

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Speaker 3: Like a lot of very very Manila. Am I saying

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Speaker 3: Manila like the place of the Philippines? I think it's Vanilla.

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Speaker 3: It is, Oh, I'm saying Vanilla. I've been to Manila.

390
00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:41,400
Speaker 3: That was a busy town in the Philippines.

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Speaker 4: Says that the first step to successful turkey hunting is scouting.

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Speaker 3: That's a great point, though, it is a great point.

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Speaker 3: Then when you find a good spot, you set up

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Speaker 3: your decoys and calls, and it says that Eastern gallers

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00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:03,520
Speaker 3: can be lured of the variety of calls, yelps, clucks, purrs,

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00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:11,280
Speaker 3: and gobbles. Important to be patient and stealthy, always follow

397
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Speaker 3: the rules, wear blaze orange. So it's like, yeah, it's

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Speaker 3: I know that we're just in the beginning of this,

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Speaker 3: but but at this like with the amount of hand wringing,

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Speaker 3: it's just, uh, if someone's gonna be satisfied by that

401
00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:32,359
Speaker 3: answered that, that's about the level they're going to be

402
00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:35,680
Speaker 3: operating on. Now, why they have to bake in their

403
00:23:35,760 --> 00:23:42,720
Speaker 3: disapproval of hunting? You know, has anybody said, like what

404
00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:45,280
Speaker 3: is a good way to get like, what's a good

405
00:23:45,359 --> 00:23:49,360
Speaker 3: way to get drunk? Does it say, I don't condone

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00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:51,520
Speaker 3: getting drunk, but you might want to try liquor.

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Speaker 1: Oh we could, we could see, we can type it in.

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Speaker 3: So I didn't buy it.

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Speaker 1: But then.

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00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:06,399
Speaker 3: Krinn had it checked out and someone else used, you know,

411
00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:09,960
Speaker 3: another Ai language model, so as an Ai language model.

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00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:12,399
Speaker 3: Blah blah blah, I hate hunting, and then and then

413
00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:15,119
Speaker 3: it did a bullet pointed. They found a bullet pointed

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Speaker 3: list of five things you should try hunt in the morning,

415
00:24:21,359 --> 00:24:29,600
Speaker 3: use Decoy's scout call strategically, and stay still impatient. So

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Speaker 3: there you go. Goy wrote in gouls Turkey not in

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00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:38,159
Speaker 3: the Grand Slam. He's from Egypt. Oh okay. I am

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Speaker 3: a US Army National Guard member and a peacekeeping mission

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00:24:41,359 --> 00:24:46,280
Speaker 3: in Egypt. Okay. Why are Goulds Turkeys not included in

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Speaker 3: the Turkey Grand Slam by the National Wild Turkey Federation.

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00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:56,160
Speaker 3: Their exclusion doesn't make sense to me. Objections to their

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Speaker 3: inclusion in the Grand Slam don't seem to hold up.

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Speaker 1: Uh.

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Speaker 3: I deleted this then put it back because I wasn't

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Speaker 3: gonna talk about but I decided to talk about it.

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Speaker 3: Since this person's in Egypt and everything they have a

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Speaker 3: there's a million kind of slams. Right, there's grand super

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00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:18,800
Speaker 3: world in world. I think that what they're getting at

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Speaker 3: is that gouls are Okay, gouls are mostly found in Mexico.

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Speaker 3: The goules turkey's mostly found in Mexico, but it is

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Speaker 3: found in you know, you can get him in Arizona

432
00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:39,840
Speaker 3: and New Mexico, right, yeah, those two states. And he's like, well,

433
00:25:39,920 --> 00:25:43,080
Speaker 3: if rarity is an issue, why is the Osciola turkey

434
00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:47,080
Speaker 3: from South Florida that's only in one state. If it's

435
00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:50,160
Speaker 3: a rarity or just a one or two state thing,

436
00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:54,640
Speaker 3: then osciola wouldn't be in either. I think, and again,

437
00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:57,200
Speaker 3: I'm getting into this because you're a service member and

438
00:25:57,240 --> 00:26:03,040
Speaker 3: you're in Egypt, because you can you can hunt. You

439
00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:06,760
Speaker 3: can buy an over the counter tag to hunt Ossiola turkeys. Yep.

440
00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:09,119
Speaker 3: I think it comes down to the opportunity. But in

441
00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:11,520
Speaker 3: Arizona you have to apply. I've been trying to draw

442
00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:16,000
Speaker 3: and I've hunted gouls in Old Mexico. I have been

443
00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:22,439
Speaker 3: applying for a decade in Arizona. Good look for gules

444
00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:23,920
Speaker 3: and you can get two points a year.

445
00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:30,080
Speaker 1: I mean, obviously there's so many more Osceola's in the

446
00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:35,000
Speaker 1: United States. Florida than there are gouls in the United States,

447
00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:39,399
Speaker 1: and so the opportunities are exceptionally limited for gools in

448
00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:40,320
Speaker 1: the United States.

449
00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:43,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's like of the of the five,

450
00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:47,000
Speaker 3: this is one of my questions. I don't know, maybe

451
00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:52,560
Speaker 3: you have an opinion about this. Of the five accepted

452
00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:59,960
Speaker 3: subspecies of turkeys, of the five subspecies of the America

453
00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:08,440
Speaker 3: in wild turkey, there are East Osceola's, Easterns, Miriams, Rios,

454
00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:15,320
Speaker 3: and Goulds, but it's questioned whether they're legit like whether

455
00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:19,480
Speaker 3: they should be legitimately regarded as subspecies anyways, do you

456
00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:23,440
Speaker 3: have an opinion on that rather than just phenotypes or

457
00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:26,040
Speaker 3: you know, variants.

458
00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:31,680
Speaker 1: There are differences between those groups for sure, and that's

459
00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:35,119
Speaker 1: the case with many wildlife space as. It's very common

460
00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:39,480
Speaker 1: to have subspecies or or races, uh, you know, within

461
00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:42,439
Speaker 1: a species, and I think it's I think it's very

462
00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:47,119
Speaker 1: interesting and it adds more flavor to turkey hunting for

463
00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:52,320
Speaker 1: people to be interested in harvesting one of each subspaces.

464
00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:58,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, but do you uh seeings how a turkey can

465
00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:03,840
Speaker 3: in one day being Eastern or in Asceola depending on

466
00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:09,639
Speaker 3: where he stands along an arbitrary line, right, I mean

467
00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:12,240
Speaker 3: there's a little bit of make believe here. Oh well, sure,

468
00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:13,520
Speaker 3: And obviously there's.

469
00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:18,840
Speaker 1: Hybridism if you will, you know where the Easterns and

470
00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:23,520
Speaker 1: Ossiolas come together, and you'll see characteristics of both and

471
00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:27,120
Speaker 1: a blend. But once you get on down into Florida,

472
00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:32,800
Speaker 1: you're definitely going to see a darker bird, doesn't weigh

473
00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:37,600
Speaker 1: as on average as much, typically has longer spurs. There're

474
00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:42,680
Speaker 1: certainly physical differences between the subspecies, but there's going to

475
00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:47,240
Speaker 1: be gradation as they come together in those areas.

476
00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:50,320
Speaker 3: Yep. Oh, you know. I keep wanting to tell people

477
00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:52,560
Speaker 3: Boux We've talked about before. I want to talk about

478
00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:59,880
Speaker 3: it again. The Merlin app by the Cornell Ornithology is unbelievable.

479
00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:01,200
Speaker 3: Have you been messing with that?

480
00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:04,200
Speaker 2: I've just been hearing Chris talk about it on this hunt.

481
00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:07,360
Speaker 3: Dude, It's unbelievable. I've been running it in the morning,

482
00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:09,040
Speaker 3: you know, like when it's getting daylight out and every

483
00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:12,000
Speaker 3: bird in the world's going off. I've been just turning

484
00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:19,040
Speaker 3: on Merlin and uh, I had ten species going what'd

485
00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:21,440
Speaker 3: you get? Let me see if I still have this

486
00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:25,800
Speaker 3: one second, I'm gonna try to pull it up. I

487
00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:28,680
Speaker 3: see I've been stupidly. I've been deleting all my recordings.

488
00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:32,520
Speaker 3: So oh man, I got rid of it.

489
00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:36,280
Speaker 2: I do know that it substantiated you and Randy the

490
00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:37,000
Speaker 2: other morning though.

491
00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:39,400
Speaker 3: Oh that's why I like to hit yeah, is every

492
00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:43,520
Speaker 3: time someone calls, it'll bing on wild turkey, and sitting

493
00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:45,760
Speaker 3: there in the dark listening for gobbles, it'll pick them up.

494
00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:48,560
Speaker 3: It'll pick them up pretty distant. Now you can hear

495
00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:50,360
Speaker 3: it better than your phone can hear it. But it'll

496
00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:53,120
Speaker 3: pick it up an idea, and whenever someone when we're

497
00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:57,160
Speaker 3: sitting there and someone calls, it'll punch wild turkey. So

498
00:29:57,280 --> 00:29:59,920
Speaker 3: I'll sitting there. At one point I had red breasted woodpacker,

499
00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:05,760
Speaker 3: northern cardinal American robin, American crow, a toe he red

500
00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:09,320
Speaker 3: shouldered hawk, tufted tip mouse.

501
00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:11,040
Speaker 5: Did you say goldfinch?

502
00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:15,320
Speaker 3: I had a goldfinch, which surprised me. This is all

503
00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:20,680
Speaker 3: one spot, Bartels. I had a flycatcher on there and

504
00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:25,320
Speaker 3: as it listens and there's like a sound chart, and

505
00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:28,680
Speaker 3: as it pings stuff, it just starts adding them to

506
00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:31,480
Speaker 3: a list. And then anytime some particular birds going off,

507
00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:35,520
Speaker 3: that bird turns yellow. And so then someone will call

508
00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:37,280
Speaker 3: and they'll be like wild turkey, you know, and then

509
00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:39,600
Speaker 3: you're a gobble and it'll bing wild turkey. But then

510
00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:42,000
Speaker 3: there's a crow going off. It is amazing, man, it

511
00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:43,960
Speaker 3: is amazing. Those guys do such good job.

512
00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:47,920
Speaker 1: So it didn't say peacock when somebody was calling.

513
00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:50,280
Speaker 3: No, But I keep wanting to make I keep wanting

514
00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:54,760
Speaker 3: to make Chris Gill call he don't have, but he's

515
00:30:54,760 --> 00:30:57,440
Speaker 3: just been trying to learn how to call turkeys. She's

516
00:30:57,480 --> 00:30:59,480
Speaker 3: got him around his yard, you know, and so I

517
00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:01,760
Speaker 3: want to see if, if, if, if he's good enough

518
00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:04,320
Speaker 3: that Merlin will pick him up. Now, you know another

519
00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:07,600
Speaker 3: interesting thing that about it is I didn't check this,

520
00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:11,080
Speaker 3: but Chris said, I gotta look at this.

521
00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:11,360
Speaker 1: I don't.

522
00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:13,080
Speaker 3: I almost don't want to say it's counting off. It's true.

523
00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:21,280
Speaker 3: Chris said that when the woodpecker's going, it'll it'll I

524
00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:24,040
Speaker 3: d that woodpecker on Cadence, but I don't know if

525
00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:26,040
Speaker 3: that's true. That's good because you think like a like

526
00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:31,800
Speaker 3: affiliated and then some of those things like yeah yeah,

527
00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:34,440
Speaker 3: like they got the machine gun style he said it

528
00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:36,480
Speaker 3: was picking up that. And then I had a squirrel

529
00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:40,000
Speaker 3: get pissed at something. Well, a hawk flew through I

530
00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:41,959
Speaker 3: watched the hawk come through the woods. The squirrel got

531
00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:44,520
Speaker 3: all bent out of shape last night, and I turned

532
00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:48,320
Speaker 3: Merlin on and you can see that squirrel in there.

533
00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:53,680
Speaker 3: But that didn't do nothing. It didn't. It didn't. It

534
00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:56,840
Speaker 3: didn't pull that squirrel out or misidentify it or even

535
00:31:56,920 --> 00:32:00,560
Speaker 3: identify it. So it's only a bird out pissed off.

536
00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:03,040
Speaker 3: A pissed off squirrel did not register on there, even

537
00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:04,840
Speaker 3: though you could it was definitely picking it up because

538
00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:08,720
Speaker 3: you could see its markings, but it didn't. I think

539
00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:10,000
Speaker 3: it's an amazing app man.

540
00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:12,240
Speaker 1: I think it's good that you bring it up, because

541
00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:17,520
Speaker 1: if more people were in better tune with what's going

542
00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:21,240
Speaker 1: on around them in nature, whether that be bird sounds

543
00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:26,320
Speaker 1: or frogs, or learning a few of the plants on

544
00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:30,120
Speaker 1: the property where they're hunting and trying to manage that,

545
00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:34,520
Speaker 1: that really increases your enjoyment and appreciation of nature. And

546
00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:39,200
Speaker 1: you know, just hardcore hooking bullet guys, if you know,

547
00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:44,880
Speaker 1: and I know several who finally got into not necessarily birding,

548
00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:48,320
Speaker 1: but at least being able to identify different bird species

549
00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:51,960
Speaker 1: by their call or by their song. All of a sudden, wow,

550
00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:55,200
Speaker 1: you know, and they start recognizing how many different species

551
00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:57,520
Speaker 1: are on the property, and it just it edds to

552
00:32:57,560 --> 00:32:58,200
Speaker 1: your enjoyment.

553
00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:04,840
Speaker 3: The best, without a doubt, far and away, the best

554
00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:08,720
Speaker 3: woodsman I ever spent time with, would be like in

555
00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:13,400
Speaker 3: Amerindian hunters in South America, like indigenous hunters in South America,

556
00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:21,840
Speaker 3: far and away in terms of like tracking ability, just everything,

557
00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:28,600
Speaker 3: you can't what you get from. So where you you're

558
00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:33,080
Speaker 3: hunting two hundred and fifty days a year in a

559
00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:38,600
Speaker 3: let's say a fifty sixty mile radius of your home,

560
00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:44,560
Speaker 3: and your dad hunted that me days year within that radius.

561
00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:49,320
Speaker 3: Your grandfather hunted that many days year within that radius

562
00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:56,280
Speaker 3: back perhaps thousands of years. Any little noise of anything

563
00:33:57,320 --> 00:34:01,680
Speaker 3: you hear, I don't care if it's a bug and

564
00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:04,640
Speaker 3: it's and in the jungle, it's all noise. It's like

565
00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:08,880
Speaker 3: it's it's there's so much noise. It's stressful. Any noise

566
00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:14,040
Speaker 3: and you go like make the what was that thing?

567
00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:19,759
Speaker 3: They know the answer. Yeah, like they got to think

568
00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:20,600
Speaker 3: about you know what I mean.

569
00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:22,759
Speaker 1: They're in tune with what's going on.

570
00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:28,640
Speaker 3: No dude, any noise, any noise. We've talked about this

571
00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:32,439
Speaker 3: bunch where there's a friend of ours, a writer Pat

572
00:34:32,520 --> 00:34:34,560
Speaker 3: Dirkin and he used to be the editor at Deer

573
00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:35,640
Speaker 3: and Deer Hunting magazine.

574
00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:37,640
Speaker 1: No, Pat is a great guy.

575
00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:41,200
Speaker 3: Oh you know Pat. When he was doing that Deer

576
00:34:41,239 --> 00:34:43,360
Speaker 3: and deer hunting thing, he had to he would profile

577
00:34:43,560 --> 00:34:46,560
Speaker 3: like someone to kill a big buck, you know, and

578
00:34:46,640 --> 00:34:48,959
Speaker 3: he'd have to he'd have to report on someone killing

579
00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:50,319
Speaker 3: a big buck, and he had to spend a lot

580
00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:52,640
Speaker 3: of time with a lot of like very successful big

581
00:34:52,719 --> 00:34:57,600
Speaker 3: buck killers. And he's like, man, there's just some guys

582
00:34:57,640 --> 00:35:03,279
Speaker 3: that are phenomenal big bock killers. We said. A thing

583
00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:06,480
Speaker 3: that would surprise me about them is that many of them,

584
00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:09,719
Speaker 3: as good as they were, they couldn't tell you what

585
00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:13,680
Speaker 3: kind of tree their tree standards are poked into. So

586
00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:15,600
Speaker 3: there's some things you can do and not need to

587
00:35:15,640 --> 00:35:17,600
Speaker 3: know that kind of stuff, but just for the general

588
00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:23,040
Speaker 3: enjoyment and like like old school woodsmanship, man, yeah, knowing

589
00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:24,560
Speaker 3: the sounds around you.

590
00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:28,520
Speaker 1: I don't get into this, but one of my graduate students,

591
00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:32,400
Speaker 1: Mark Turner, he tries to see how many tree species

592
00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:33,680
Speaker 1: he can kill a deer from.

593
00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:41,480
Speaker 3: That's like a different I got one out of a

594
00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:44,600
Speaker 3: magnolia one time, did you so?

595
00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:47,800
Speaker 1: Was it a southern magnolia in Alabama.

596
00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:53,480
Speaker 3: Uh so, I guess that'd be Do you think that

597
00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:56,520
Speaker 3: would fit under is the Merlin app? Does that fit under? AI?

598
00:35:56,719 --> 00:35:57,239
Speaker 3: Of course it does?

599
00:35:57,480 --> 00:35:58,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure.

600
00:35:58,440 --> 00:35:58,640
Speaker 1: Yeah.

601
00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:04,759
Speaker 3: Out, I wish so the Cornell Ornithology Lab or Lab

602
00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:08,279
Speaker 3: of Ornithology, they're phenomenal, dude, they do so much cool stuff. Yeah,

603
00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:11,080
Speaker 3: I keep thinking they're they should send me like a

604
00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:15,560
Speaker 3: hat or something promoting talking about the Cornell Ornithology that anyhow,

605
00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:19,520
Speaker 3: if if they see that, they were not gonna do

606
00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:21,759
Speaker 3: this because it's not birds, but I think that that

607
00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:24,400
Speaker 3: should be developed. I would like to see that be

608
00:36:24,520 --> 00:36:29,920
Speaker 3: developed into frogs, yes, toads, insects. Yeah, that'd be sweet,

609
00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:32,040
Speaker 3: so that you could sit out and be like, oh,

610
00:36:32,120 --> 00:36:33,000
Speaker 3: that's that frog.

611
00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:36,200
Speaker 4: You know, or even that it'd be cool if there

612
00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:40,040
Speaker 4: was like animal ones, because sure I've heard several different

613
00:36:40,080 --> 00:36:46,359
Speaker 4: times I've heard like Bobcat mountain lion screaming. Most people

614
00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:49,000
Speaker 4: are like, what in the hell, Yeah, someone's getting murdered

615
00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:49,600
Speaker 4: up on the hill.

616
00:36:49,680 --> 00:36:52,200
Speaker 3: We've had people send in crazy noises, you know, and

617
00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:56,440
Speaker 3: you listen to it and you're like, that's something slowly

618
00:36:56,640 --> 00:37:00,560
Speaker 3: killing a cottontail rabbit or whatever, right, Like, yeah, if

619
00:37:00,600 --> 00:37:03,000
Speaker 3: it would just like be able to to pick off

620
00:37:03,080 --> 00:37:04,160
Speaker 3: all those sounds. Yeah.

621
00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:08,520
Speaker 1: I was in the Yucatan, Uh three weeks ago we

622
00:37:08,640 --> 00:37:14,440
Speaker 1: were hunting oscillated turkeys and uh, some howler monkeys started

623
00:37:14,480 --> 00:37:17,000
Speaker 1: going off. Now that's something that will get your attention.

624
00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:20,520
Speaker 1: When those big males are up in the trees, Uh

625
00:37:21,480 --> 00:37:26,440
Speaker 1: just growl and hollering at the females and young. And

626
00:37:26,960 --> 00:37:30,200
Speaker 1: it was it was rather fascinating to say, Yeah, Phil,

627
00:37:30,520 --> 00:37:32,520
Speaker 1: when you're putting this together, it is just a quick

628
00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:34,759
Speaker 1: note to Phil. You can leave the note in Phil,

629
00:37:34,840 --> 00:37:41,880
Speaker 1: play uh, play howler monkeys real quick going off in

630
00:37:41,960 --> 00:37:58,200
Speaker 1: the trees, so that that is an intimidating noise. Oh yeah,

631
00:37:59,040 --> 00:37:59,520
Speaker 1: and you're in.

632
00:37:59,560 --> 00:38:01,759
Speaker 3: The dark, going through the jungle and dark and when

633
00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:03,920
Speaker 3: it's just getting light out, those things going off right

634
00:38:03,960 --> 00:38:05,440
Speaker 3: over your head. Oh my god. Man.

635
00:38:05,640 --> 00:38:10,479
Speaker 1: And obviously I have never been confronted by one or whatever,

636
00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:13,000
Speaker 1: but uh, you know they're said to be rather aggressive.

637
00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:19,360
Speaker 3: I was with some guys that shot one and we

638
00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:21,320
Speaker 3: ate it a red howler monkey.

639
00:38:21,640 --> 00:38:23,040
Speaker 1: Really, you know, how was it?

640
00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:23,719
Speaker 3: I didn't like it.

641
00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:24,920
Speaker 1: You didn't eat the brains?

642
00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:25,520
Speaker 3: Did you know?

643
00:38:25,719 --> 00:38:28,319
Speaker 1: They did? Do you remember those videos from years back?

644
00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:32,080
Speaker 3: What was it called eating the live monkey brain.

645
00:38:32,160 --> 00:38:36,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, what was the faces of death? Yeah, where

646
00:38:36,239 --> 00:38:38,520
Speaker 1: the monkey's head would be in the center of the table.

647
00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:41,840
Speaker 1: And then people had these little like ball pin hammers

648
00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:43,959
Speaker 1: and pop pop pop, you know, all the way around

649
00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:47,400
Speaker 1: the table until they finally killed the monkey. And then

650
00:38:47,440 --> 00:38:50,440
Speaker 1: they cracked his skull open, and all of them had

651
00:38:50,560 --> 00:38:51,800
Speaker 1: spoons and would.

652
00:38:54,880 --> 00:38:59,920
Speaker 3: Man, no, they didn't do that, but they uh, they

653
00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:05,160
Speaker 3: they had. So they had a monkey. They'd killed it

654
00:39:05,239 --> 00:39:08,640
Speaker 3: with a sixteen gage shotgun. Chaman. These guys were Chamane.

655
00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:12,479
Speaker 3: Was there a tribe? They killed it with sixteen gage

656
00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:17,600
Speaker 3: shotgun and man, they had like they cleaned the intestines

657
00:39:17,640 --> 00:39:19,920
Speaker 3: and everything all to eat. One of them was walking

658
00:39:19,960 --> 00:39:23,040
Speaker 3: around he had that it had a little it had

659
00:39:23,080 --> 00:39:26,600
Speaker 3: a little baby, and he was just eating that little

660
00:39:26,680 --> 00:39:30,120
Speaker 3: head like a little apple cooked.

661
00:39:30,760 --> 00:39:31,440
Speaker 1: Man cooked.

662
00:39:32,120 --> 00:39:33,920
Speaker 3: I just thought it was too much like eating folks.

663
00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:36,839
Speaker 3: I hate it, but I thought it was a lot

664
00:39:36,920 --> 00:39:40,560
Speaker 3: like eating folks. I had eaten. I had eaten, and

665
00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:45,640
Speaker 3: I had had occasion overseas as well. I'd had occasion

666
00:39:45,680 --> 00:39:50,880
Speaker 3: to eat domestic dog a bunch, and that bothered me,

667
00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:55,120
Speaker 3: but I didn't bother me like monkeys. You know, well,

668
00:39:55,239 --> 00:39:56,720
Speaker 3: both of them made me feel sweaty.

669
00:39:57,000 --> 00:40:01,320
Speaker 1: We also saw spider monkeys, but they didn't have nearly

670
00:40:01,440 --> 00:40:07,400
Speaker 1: as exciting of a vocalization. But you mentioned somebody shot one. Now,

671
00:40:07,480 --> 00:40:09,600
Speaker 1: our guides when we were down there, they were very

672
00:40:09,640 --> 00:40:12,880
Speaker 1: strict about, you know, not being able to shoot the mono.

673
00:40:13,360 --> 00:40:17,719
Speaker 3: Yep, no monkeys. Yeah, I've been so. I was with

674
00:40:17,840 --> 00:40:24,440
Speaker 3: the other group that it's taboo tabooed eat monkey, like

675
00:40:24,520 --> 00:40:28,920
Speaker 3: they don't eat monkeys, tabooty iguana. But you know what,

676
00:40:29,080 --> 00:40:31,360
Speaker 3: it's just different. We have all kinds of taboos. Like

677
00:40:31,400 --> 00:40:32,759
Speaker 3: you might come with us and be like, well, there's

678
00:40:32,760 --> 00:40:35,000
Speaker 3: this good looking animal right there. That's my dog.

679
00:40:35,120 --> 00:40:35,359
Speaker 1: Dude.

680
00:40:36,440 --> 00:40:38,200
Speaker 3: You know, everybody's got their table.

681
00:40:38,280 --> 00:40:40,680
Speaker 1: That's one rule I have no problem in abiding by.

682
00:40:40,760 --> 00:40:54,160
Speaker 3: It's easy to here's a good question that came in.

683
00:40:57,440 --> 00:41:02,520
Speaker 3: If you're in New Richmond, washsen there's a piece called

684
00:41:02,560 --> 00:41:06,279
Speaker 3: the ten Mile Water Foul Production Area. Okay, US Fish

685
00:41:06,280 --> 00:41:13,680
Speaker 3: and Wildlife Service Land. There's a Okay, the just gonna

686
00:41:13,680 --> 00:41:16,040
Speaker 3: read from what the guy has to say. Recently, a

687
00:41:16,080 --> 00:41:18,160
Speaker 3: group of individuals in my neighborhood want to have the

688
00:41:18,280 --> 00:41:21,520
Speaker 3: easement removed leading to US Fish and Wildlife Land. So

689
00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:24,399
Speaker 3: there's a group of individuals in this individual's neighborhood who

690
00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:28,640
Speaker 3: want they have an easement into the ten mile waterfowl

691
00:41:28,680 --> 00:41:33,480
Speaker 3: production area New Richmond, Wisconsin. Their argument is they should

692
00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:37,640
Speaker 3: close that easement because there's other easements anyways. Because what happened.

693
00:41:37,800 --> 00:41:42,279
Speaker 3: A new landowner purchased some land knowing damn well that

694
00:41:42,360 --> 00:41:45,240
Speaker 3: there was an easement there, and they want to build

695
00:41:45,280 --> 00:41:48,319
Speaker 3: their quote dream home. Whenever you see someone's gonna build

696
00:41:48,320 --> 00:41:52,360
Speaker 3: a dream home, it usually proceeds a problem. Do you

697
00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:55,640
Speaker 3: know what I mean? They're like, oh, no, no, no, no,

698
00:41:56,080 --> 00:42:00,200
Speaker 3: it wasn't any home. It was my dream home. So

699
00:42:00,480 --> 00:42:04,239
Speaker 3: the land that is being accessed is not. So the

700
00:42:04,320 --> 00:42:07,400
Speaker 3: people are saying we should close the easement because you

701
00:42:07,440 --> 00:42:09,560
Speaker 3: can get there from other ways anyways. You can get

702
00:42:09,560 --> 00:42:12,160
Speaker 3: into this area other routes, and this gentleman is saying,

703
00:42:12,360 --> 00:42:16,279
Speaker 3: the other routes suck. You gotta go through a bunch

704
00:42:16,320 --> 00:42:18,839
Speaker 3: of swamp and muck and wetland or across the river,

705
00:42:18,960 --> 00:42:25,480
Speaker 3: and so it's not comparable. And he said, is my

706
00:42:25,640 --> 00:42:28,400
Speaker 3: belief that the individuals fighting this easement and seeking to

707
00:42:28,440 --> 00:42:30,600
Speaker 3: have it removed just want this land for their free

708
00:42:30,760 --> 00:42:34,680
Speaker 3: use and to prevent hunters from walking through it. They

709
00:42:34,760 --> 00:42:39,600
Speaker 3: have said hunters can request access through their property, But

710
00:42:39,760 --> 00:42:42,040
Speaker 3: in my eyes, this defeats the purpose of public land.

711
00:42:42,560 --> 00:42:44,840
Speaker 3: Why should I have to request access from a private

712
00:42:44,880 --> 00:42:48,840
Speaker 3: party to use the public easement. He says that his

713
00:42:49,280 --> 00:42:53,080
Speaker 3: position on this is so controversial in his neighborhood that

714
00:42:53,400 --> 00:43:00,640
Speaker 3: his kids will lose friendships with neighborhood kids. If he

715
00:43:00,719 --> 00:43:05,440
Speaker 3: were to bring this up publicly, what would you do?

716
00:43:05,520 --> 00:43:10,120
Speaker 3: Would you stand up to the whole neighborhood. Yeah, well,

717
00:43:10,600 --> 00:43:12,800
Speaker 3: I'd make it be like it was in the neighborhood's benefit.

718
00:43:13,800 --> 00:43:17,080
Speaker 1: But I wonder why the other neighbors feel so strongly

719
00:43:18,480 --> 00:43:21,040
Speaker 1: that the easement should be kapy.

720
00:43:21,080 --> 00:43:24,840
Speaker 3: He'd be like, who's being the good neighbor here? I

721
00:43:25,040 --> 00:43:27,359
Speaker 3: feel that all the people in our neighborhood can right

722
00:43:27,440 --> 00:43:30,800
Speaker 3: now walk on over there. But if this guy builds

723
00:43:30,840 --> 00:43:34,000
Speaker 3: his dream home, then the neighborhood's boned. Yeah.

724
00:43:34,040 --> 00:43:37,120
Speaker 2: It seems like a real slippery slope to allow somebody

725
00:43:37,200 --> 00:43:39,400
Speaker 2: the ability to say yes you can go or no

726
00:43:39,480 --> 00:43:39,839
Speaker 2: you can't.

727
00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:42,920
Speaker 3: Yeah. I don't get. I don't get. It's like he

728
00:43:43,120 --> 00:43:45,200
Speaker 3: you know what he's doing, he's getting best. He's getting

729
00:43:45,280 --> 00:43:47,440
Speaker 3: beat by someone who's better at rhetoric than he is,

730
00:43:48,560 --> 00:43:51,759
Speaker 3: but someone's out rhetoric in him. The guy that wrote

731
00:43:51,800 --> 00:43:54,520
Speaker 3: in he's getting out rhetoric, but he should he should

732
00:43:54,560 --> 00:43:57,480
Speaker 3: have the upper hand here. If his kid's gonna lose

733
00:43:57,560 --> 00:44:02,560
Speaker 3: buddies over this, Yeah, they're gonna they're gonna take his

734
00:44:02,719 --> 00:44:03,560
Speaker 3: bike or something.

735
00:44:04,840 --> 00:44:04,960
Speaker 1: Uh.

736
00:44:05,480 --> 00:44:07,879
Speaker 3: We had a we had a podcast a while ago.

737
00:44:07,920 --> 00:44:10,799
Speaker 3: On an episode, we talked about the ways turkeys get

738
00:44:10,880 --> 00:44:13,320
Speaker 3: reported in the news, you know, like the idea of

739
00:44:13,400 --> 00:44:18,680
Speaker 3: the the rabid, mean downtown turkey. We had a police

740
00:44:18,760 --> 00:44:23,719
Speaker 3: officer from Mount Pleasant, Michigan. Mount Pleasant Police apartment. He

741
00:44:23,880 --> 00:44:30,719
Speaker 3: rode in where they had a turkey that was viciously

742
00:44:30,840 --> 00:44:37,719
Speaker 3: attacking people in the neighborhood. This turkey, he says, this

743
00:44:37,840 --> 00:44:41,719
Speaker 3: turkey actually managed to knock a lady down and broker wrist.

744
00:44:41,800 --> 00:44:44,319
Speaker 3: I don't mean to laugh at the knocked her down

745
00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:49,319
Speaker 3: and broker wrist. Okay, they triudn't. They tried to catch

746
00:44:49,360 --> 00:44:50,800
Speaker 3: it in the net gun. That couldn't catch it in

747
00:44:50,840 --> 00:44:54,920
Speaker 3: the net gun. They eventually put together a coordinated approach

748
00:44:55,960 --> 00:45:00,359
Speaker 3: to mobilize the turkey. Since they knew that the tom

749
00:45:00,400 --> 00:45:04,720
Speaker 3: would routinely charge vehicles, they use an suv as a blocker,

750
00:45:06,040 --> 00:45:09,880
Speaker 3: had officers hide behind the suv as it approached the

751
00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:17,920
Speaker 3: tom When they executed the plan, they did not consider

752
00:45:18,160 --> 00:45:21,480
Speaker 3: that a taser gun. Part of the plan fell apart

753
00:45:21,560 --> 00:45:23,760
Speaker 3: when they forgot that a taser gun has a five

754
00:45:23,880 --> 00:45:30,080
Speaker 3: second sequence that prevents a cop from overtasering people. They

755
00:45:30,200 --> 00:45:35,720
Speaker 3: hide behind the vehicle and the turkey approaches the vehicle

756
00:45:35,760 --> 00:45:42,680
Speaker 3: to attack, So an officer tases the turkey, at which

757
00:45:42,719 --> 00:45:45,120
Speaker 3: point the other officers all run out to get it

758
00:45:45,200 --> 00:45:49,880
Speaker 3: into a fishing net. He had to keep tasering it,

759
00:45:50,080 --> 00:45:52,240
Speaker 3: but the five second thing made it that the turkey

760
00:45:52,360 --> 00:45:58,960
Speaker 3: recovered and actually spurred up and injured an officer with

761
00:45:59,080 --> 00:46:04,919
Speaker 3: its spurs. They eventually got it into a box from

762
00:46:05,000 --> 00:46:11,399
Speaker 3: a cardboard pool, a large pool cardboard box. They then

763
00:46:11,520 --> 00:46:15,839
Speaker 3: drove the turkey five miles out of town and let

764
00:46:15,880 --> 00:46:20,600
Speaker 3: it go on a farm. Two weeks later, he was back.

765
00:46:24,000 --> 00:46:30,080
Speaker 2: Even even if the turkey never came back, it seems

766
00:46:30,160 --> 00:46:34,080
Speaker 2: like a big giant waste of Oh if people lose

767
00:46:34,160 --> 00:46:37,520
Speaker 2: their mind turkeys, I mean, a twelve gage is a

768
00:46:37,719 --> 00:46:39,840
Speaker 2: great cheap way to take care of that problem.

769
00:46:39,920 --> 00:46:40,040
Speaker 3: You know.

770
00:46:40,080 --> 00:46:42,480
Speaker 1: I'm just sitting here listening to all this and thinking.

771
00:46:42,760 --> 00:46:46,560
Speaker 1: Of course, turkeys were not numerous in the nineteen fifties.

772
00:46:47,040 --> 00:46:50,600
Speaker 1: But had that problem occurred in the nineteen fifties.

773
00:46:50,280 --> 00:46:53,560
Speaker 3: What you just described would not have happened. No, oh,

774
00:46:53,640 --> 00:46:55,560
Speaker 3: in the nineteen fifties of a turkey at tagged the

775
00:46:55,640 --> 00:46:57,919
Speaker 3: lady and broke the wrist. Would they be then having

776
00:46:58,040 --> 00:46:59,520
Speaker 3: like an eatings of the girls.

777
00:47:00,440 --> 00:47:02,879
Speaker 1: Yeah, they would have a meeting to eat it. Yeah,

778
00:47:03,160 --> 00:47:04,719
Speaker 1: that evening, that's what they'd be doing.

779
00:47:05,840 --> 00:47:08,600
Speaker 3: We did our big Chatticot episode, but the Chatticot questions

780
00:47:08,680 --> 00:47:11,240
Speaker 3: keep rolling in, So we had a Chatticut episode. Luke Colmbs.

781
00:47:11,320 --> 00:47:13,840
Speaker 3: We took care of a million Chatticot questions, but a

782
00:47:13,880 --> 00:47:17,759
Speaker 3: couple keep coming in. This is an interesting one. So

783
00:47:17,880 --> 00:47:20,919
Speaker 3: you guys gotta do a morality. This is a moral question.

784
00:47:22,680 --> 00:47:26,080
Speaker 3: So this guy a few years back, he buys a house.

785
00:47:27,239 --> 00:47:30,880
Speaker 3: He buys three acres out in the country. As he

786
00:47:30,960 --> 00:47:35,440
Speaker 3: puts it and on it is a one quarter acre

787
00:47:35,920 --> 00:47:42,600
Speaker 3: what he describes as a scummy duck pond. The neighboring

788
00:47:42,719 --> 00:47:48,400
Speaker 3: property owner has thirty five acres with three other larger ponds.

789
00:47:51,160 --> 00:47:53,680
Speaker 3: This guy takes a shine to the pond that he

790
00:47:53,840 --> 00:47:58,239
Speaker 3: now owns. There's four ponds, three around the neighbor's place

791
00:47:58,320 --> 00:48:01,440
Speaker 3: ones on his He takes a shine to this pond

792
00:48:01,640 --> 00:48:04,960
Speaker 3: and he has it dug out and deepened. He has

793
00:48:05,040 --> 00:48:09,760
Speaker 3: it treated with beneficial bacteria. He adds an air raider

794
00:48:11,040 --> 00:48:17,840
Speaker 3: and he says, this pond turns out awesome. The neighbor

795
00:48:18,080 --> 00:48:22,680
Speaker 3: that has thirty five acres with three ponds sells his place. Okay.

796
00:48:23,880 --> 00:48:26,239
Speaker 3: The person that buys this new place now has these

797
00:48:26,320 --> 00:48:29,920
Speaker 3: three ponds, and he decides to have it surveyed. And

798
00:48:30,000 --> 00:48:32,120
Speaker 3: when he has it surveyed, it turns out that he

799
00:48:32,320 --> 00:48:34,239
Speaker 3: owned the actually guy that the guy actually send in

800
00:48:34,280 --> 00:48:37,960
Speaker 3: a little illustration, he actually owns a little bit of

801
00:48:38,040 --> 00:48:43,800
Speaker 3: the shore of the sweet new pond. Now, the people

802
00:48:43,880 --> 00:48:47,319
Speaker 3: that bought the three ponds with thirty five acres now

803
00:48:48,560 --> 00:48:51,880
Speaker 3: camp out and hang out on their little sliver of

804
00:48:52,000 --> 00:48:55,640
Speaker 3: the pond that he rehabilitated about one hundred yards from

805
00:48:55,680 --> 00:49:02,440
Speaker 3: his kitchen window. Oh man, and he's wondering, sure, man,

806
00:49:02,800 --> 00:49:08,040
Speaker 3: it's on their place, But really, what's the etiquette on that.

807
00:49:10,200 --> 00:49:14,200
Speaker 3: That's a tough one. A tough one. It's a tough one.

808
00:49:16,239 --> 00:49:17,920
Speaker 1: I would say, there just needs to be give and

809
00:49:18,000 --> 00:49:22,399
Speaker 1: take on both sides, you know. I mean, the dude

810
00:49:22,560 --> 00:49:27,040
Speaker 1: fixed up the pond it's unfortunate that it's actually owned

811
00:49:27,200 --> 00:49:30,960
Speaker 1: a portion of by somebody else. But all parties involved

812
00:49:31,000 --> 00:49:33,560
Speaker 1: should realize, you know, we have a little issue here

813
00:49:33,560 --> 00:49:35,120
Speaker 1: and let's let's be nice to each other.

814
00:49:35,400 --> 00:49:39,600
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, that's a tough one because here's one thing

815
00:49:43,400 --> 00:49:46,440
Speaker 3: I am, like, I empathize with the guy that duged

816
00:49:46,440 --> 00:49:48,239
Speaker 3: the pine up. But at the same time, dude, you

817
00:49:48,719 --> 00:49:51,040
Speaker 3: like you like you didn't survey your property line?

818
00:49:51,080 --> 00:49:52,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was. The whole thing could have been fixed

819
00:49:52,680 --> 00:49:55,560
Speaker 2: when you bought your property and not just and then

820
00:49:55,560 --> 00:49:57,160
Speaker 2: you would have known. All right, at this point, do

821
00:49:57,200 --> 00:49:58,680
Speaker 2: you want to put the money and effort into it?

822
00:49:58,960 --> 00:50:00,879
Speaker 2: And so this guy buys the place and he gets

823
00:50:00,880 --> 00:50:03,200
Speaker 2: to walk around. There's a sweet pond on his as

824
00:50:03,280 --> 00:50:05,200
Speaker 2: far as he knows, just a sweet pond on his place.

825
00:50:06,000 --> 00:50:07,400
Speaker 2: He may not know what all happened.

826
00:50:09,320 --> 00:50:11,200
Speaker 4: Maybe if he just lets his pond go back to

827
00:50:11,280 --> 00:50:13,600
Speaker 4: the scummy duck pond, the neighbors won't want to hang

828
00:50:13,680 --> 00:50:14,040
Speaker 4: out by it.

829
00:50:14,239 --> 00:50:16,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, he needs to call the contractor be like, I

830
00:50:16,200 --> 00:50:17,919
Speaker 3: want to put all that fill back in the pod.

831
00:50:20,000 --> 00:50:22,440
Speaker 3: What if he What'm I gonna run my sewage out

832
00:50:22,520 --> 00:50:25,160
Speaker 3: into that get it right back to way I found it.

833
00:50:25,680 --> 00:50:28,840
Speaker 1: What if he paid to have one of the neighbor's

834
00:50:29,000 --> 00:50:32,960
Speaker 1: ponds fixed up just like his pond, and in trade,

835
00:50:33,040 --> 00:50:35,640
Speaker 1: we work out an agreement where he can purchase the

836
00:50:35,760 --> 00:50:39,640
Speaker 1: land around his pond. Either way, it's gonna costume something, dude,

837
00:50:40,719 --> 00:50:43,000
Speaker 1: that's the fix. It's costume.

838
00:50:43,120 --> 00:50:45,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, this guy Craigs should be on all the etiquette episodes.

839
00:50:46,040 --> 00:50:48,960
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, he says, you know, I got a proposal.

840
00:50:49,239 --> 00:50:51,399
Speaker 3: I'm gonna do just what I did that my pond,

841
00:50:51,560 --> 00:50:54,680
Speaker 3: your pond. I'll make it better and then you'll see

842
00:50:55,000 --> 00:50:56,879
Speaker 3: to me that little chunk of beach.

843
00:50:57,160 --> 00:50:59,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, just be nice.

844
00:50:59,320 --> 00:51:03,200
Speaker 3: Property bound adjustments. Okay, here's another one. This one's this one.

845
00:51:03,360 --> 00:51:05,880
Speaker 3: That one was great. This one is not great. This

846
00:51:06,000 --> 00:51:10,600
Speaker 3: is a horrible person. Fourteen year old kid Thanksgiving Eve

847
00:51:12,400 --> 00:51:15,520
Speaker 3: is hunting a property with his uncle, who's his hunting mentor.

848
00:51:16,800 --> 00:51:20,200
Speaker 3: Big Buck pops out Big buck for North Carolina. He says,

849
00:51:21,719 --> 00:51:27,000
Speaker 3: big eight pointer. He's a kid, he's fourteen. Bam, hits

850
00:51:27,000 --> 00:51:31,359
Speaker 3: it in the leg, says he pretty much takes off

851
00:51:31,400 --> 00:51:34,239
Speaker 3: the lower third of the deer's leg. Deer runs over

852
00:51:34,280 --> 00:51:39,640
Speaker 3: towards the uncle. Bam, Uncle gets it. The uncle kept

853
00:51:39,719 --> 00:51:43,920
Speaker 3: the buck. Oh wow, it's hanging in his house. Come on, dude,

854
00:51:46,440 --> 00:51:48,640
Speaker 3: argument being you might not have found that deer. That

855
00:51:49,000 --> 00:51:54,400
Speaker 3: doesn't matter. That doesn't matter. I would even if that uncle,

856
00:51:54,560 --> 00:51:56,600
Speaker 3: if it wasn't his nephew, and it wasn't even the

857
00:51:56,640 --> 00:51:57,520
Speaker 3: same property.

858
00:51:58,320 --> 00:52:01,320
Speaker 1: Dude, give the person the deer that they made a

859
00:52:01,360 --> 00:52:04,160
Speaker 1: whole movie called First Blood. Obviously I don't know the guy,

860
00:52:04,200 --> 00:52:05,200
Speaker 1: but I don't like him.

861
00:52:05,440 --> 00:52:09,239
Speaker 3: No, if he did it to a neighbor, I think

862
00:52:09,280 --> 00:52:09,719
Speaker 3: he was right.

863
00:52:09,800 --> 00:52:11,520
Speaker 2: So I was gonna change up the question if this

864
00:52:11,719 --> 00:52:13,800
Speaker 2: was an adult that made the bad for a shot.

865
00:52:15,320 --> 00:52:16,160
Speaker 3: When a kid got it.

866
00:52:16,400 --> 00:52:18,600
Speaker 2: Oh no, like adult made it bad for a shot

867
00:52:18,640 --> 00:52:20,279
Speaker 2: and then the buck roun you. So I made a shot,

868
00:52:20,960 --> 00:52:22,800
Speaker 2: wounded a buck, bad shott and then you killed it?

869
00:52:22,840 --> 00:52:23,920
Speaker 2: Or you giving me the deer back.

870
00:52:23,960 --> 00:52:25,880
Speaker 3: Absolutely without question?

871
00:52:27,000 --> 00:52:30,359
Speaker 2: Is there any wounding that doesn't count, like a hide

872
00:52:30,400 --> 00:52:33,719
Speaker 2: wound or like, oh that's a.

873
00:52:33,719 --> 00:52:36,279
Speaker 3: Good question, Well give it, give it to me. Like

874
00:52:36,360 --> 00:52:40,120
Speaker 3: let's say you shot a tye off it or you

875
00:52:40,360 --> 00:52:42,759
Speaker 3: keep it now, Okay, you shot a tye off it

876
00:52:43,239 --> 00:52:49,400
Speaker 3: or you hit hair? What what if it?

877
00:52:50,440 --> 00:52:52,399
Speaker 4: What if you like shot a deer with a ball

878
00:52:52,520 --> 00:52:54,719
Speaker 4: that that would just win through muscle, That dear is

879
00:52:54,800 --> 00:52:57,640
Speaker 4: gonna live, not one hundred percent, but.

880
00:52:57,680 --> 00:52:58,320
Speaker 3: Because you never know.

881
00:52:58,440 --> 00:53:00,440
Speaker 2: But I'd give it to the person you don't know.

882
00:53:01,920 --> 00:53:03,640
Speaker 2: I'm gonna can I twist the question one more time

883
00:53:03,680 --> 00:53:08,960
Speaker 2: for you? So it's the new Michigan state record. Okay,

884
00:53:09,840 --> 00:53:13,000
Speaker 2: I ding it in the lower in the knee joint,

885
00:53:13,200 --> 00:53:14,480
Speaker 2: and it runs to you and you kill it.

886
00:53:15,600 --> 00:53:16,200
Speaker 3: It's your buck.

887
00:53:17,000 --> 00:53:17,680
Speaker 2: I don't believe you.

888
00:53:19,520 --> 00:53:21,759
Speaker 3: Who else you're gonna ask what I would do besides.

889
00:53:21,480 --> 00:53:25,560
Speaker 1: Me, Jason, That dude would be on my wall.

890
00:53:27,080 --> 00:53:28,440
Speaker 2: See the ethics change a little bit.

891
00:53:28,520 --> 00:53:30,160
Speaker 3: No, I think if the kids.

892
00:53:30,000 --> 00:53:36,359
Speaker 2: Involved you, yeah, yeah, you specifically just yeah, it's it's

893
00:53:36,400 --> 00:53:37,640
Speaker 2: going home with the fourteen year old.

894
00:53:39,040 --> 00:53:41,960
Speaker 1: Can I tell another story that's somewhat related?

895
00:53:42,120 --> 00:53:42,680
Speaker 3: Oh please?

896
00:53:43,280 --> 00:53:43,400
Speaker 4: Uh?

897
00:53:44,640 --> 00:53:48,680
Speaker 1: Marcus Lashley at the University of Florida. He is on

898
00:53:48,840 --> 00:53:53,400
Speaker 1: the committee of one of my current graduate students, Jake Bones,

899
00:53:54,600 --> 00:53:57,880
Speaker 1: and Marcus was a graduate student mine years ago. So

900
00:53:57,960 --> 00:54:01,080
Speaker 1: I have a long relationship with Marcus. Great guy, very smart,

901
00:54:01,640 --> 00:54:03,959
Speaker 1: knows a lot about turkeys and fire and other things.

902
00:54:04,400 --> 00:54:04,640
Speaker 3: Well.

903
00:54:05,560 --> 00:54:08,279
Speaker 1: Thinking about the etiquette, he was coming up to hunt

904
00:54:08,360 --> 00:54:10,960
Speaker 1: with us and spend time to meet with Jake on

905
00:54:11,080 --> 00:54:15,080
Speaker 1: his project et cetera, and it happened to be coincidentally

906
00:54:15,680 --> 00:54:19,680
Speaker 1: in April during our turkey season. So of course Marcus

907
00:54:19,760 --> 00:54:23,920
Speaker 1: wants a turkey hunt, and so Jake says, hey, I

908
00:54:24,080 --> 00:54:27,520
Speaker 1: know where there's a couple of birds hanging out. It's

909
00:54:27,600 --> 00:54:31,520
Speaker 1: on some public land. He said, let's take doctor Lashley

910
00:54:31,560 --> 00:54:32,319
Speaker 1: and hunt over.

911
00:54:32,400 --> 00:54:33,080
Speaker 3: That's great.

912
00:54:33,760 --> 00:54:35,960
Speaker 1: And so Marcus and I had hunted a couple of

913
00:54:36,000 --> 00:54:38,640
Speaker 1: different spots, and then on this third morning, we went

914
00:54:38,719 --> 00:54:40,680
Speaker 1: to the public land that Jake was going to go

915
00:54:40,760 --> 00:54:45,759
Speaker 1: to and I had not been there. And backstory a

916
00:54:45,800 --> 00:54:48,520
Speaker 1: little bit. Jake had only killed one turkey ever in

917
00:54:48,600 --> 00:54:52,960
Speaker 1: his life, okay, and so he's giving up this goblin

918
00:54:53,080 --> 00:54:56,239
Speaker 1: bird to what's going to be his committee member, you know,

919
00:54:56,320 --> 00:54:58,719
Speaker 1: which can be important when it comes voting time.

920
00:55:00,040 --> 00:55:00,479
Speaker 3: So got.

921
00:55:01,880 --> 00:55:05,200
Speaker 1: And so we drive to the spot. We get out

922
00:55:05,680 --> 00:55:09,279
Speaker 1: and the bird is gobling literally within one hundred yards.

923
00:55:09,400 --> 00:55:12,759
Speaker 1: I said, well, you know, gosh, you know that's we're

924
00:55:12,960 --> 00:55:16,560
Speaker 1: really close. And I did not know Jake that well

925
00:55:16,719 --> 00:55:21,760
Speaker 1: at this time about his turkey hunting ability, savvy whatever,

926
00:55:21,920 --> 00:55:24,480
Speaker 1: I didn't know, and so I just figured, you know,

927
00:55:24,680 --> 00:55:27,719
Speaker 1: Jake's probably long time turkey hunter and he knows what

928
00:55:27,800 --> 00:55:32,080
Speaker 1: he's doing. And so we're walking down the gravel road

929
00:55:32,360 --> 00:55:35,480
Speaker 1: headed to this goblin bird. And you know, I'm I've

930
00:55:35,520 --> 00:55:37,880
Speaker 1: been kind of hanging back the whole time. Let let

931
00:55:38,040 --> 00:55:42,160
Speaker 1: Jake kind of take control of this situation. And but

932
00:55:42,640 --> 00:55:44,920
Speaker 1: it dons on me. I'm going to have to do

933
00:55:45,040 --> 00:55:49,160
Speaker 1: something because we're fixing to mess this up royally. And

934
00:55:49,320 --> 00:55:52,040
Speaker 1: so I speed walk ahead to get up to Jake,

935
00:55:52,080 --> 00:55:56,040
Speaker 1: and I said, hey, what's your plan here? And he said, we.

936
00:55:57,880 --> 00:55:58,280
Speaker 3: Exactly.

937
00:55:58,400 --> 00:56:02,640
Speaker 1: And then and by the way, it's already plenty light

938
00:56:02,920 --> 00:56:06,120
Speaker 1: enough to see. It's not like even gray light. It's

939
00:56:06,200 --> 00:56:09,279
Speaker 1: after that because the places the ways off they had

940
00:56:09,320 --> 00:56:11,160
Speaker 1: to drive to when we were a little late getting there.

941
00:56:11,440 --> 00:56:13,120
Speaker 1: So anyways, you know what you're playing, He said, Well,

942
00:56:13,320 --> 00:56:15,000
Speaker 1: I figured we'll just walk up here and sit down.

943
00:56:15,040 --> 00:56:17,200
Speaker 1: I said, well, we need to get off of the

944
00:56:17,320 --> 00:56:20,520
Speaker 1: road and get in the woods now, like right here, come,

945
00:56:20,680 --> 00:56:24,040
Speaker 1: let's go. And so guided them into the woods. And

946
00:56:24,160 --> 00:56:25,919
Speaker 1: so we get a little closer to where the bird

947
00:56:26,080 --> 00:56:28,879
Speaker 1: is and it's next to an opening. It's a very

948
00:56:28,920 --> 00:56:29,600
Speaker 1: good situation.

949
00:56:29,800 --> 00:56:30,439
Speaker 3: We sit down.

950
00:56:32,000 --> 00:56:38,280
Speaker 1: We certainly are within seventy yards of the bird's goblin,

951
00:56:38,480 --> 00:56:40,840
Speaker 1: which is good. I was afraid it would spook differently.

952
00:56:41,440 --> 00:56:48,600
Speaker 1: Hens are calling and I'm calling for Marcus and get

953
00:56:48,600 --> 00:56:50,800
Speaker 1: a lot of response. You know, the birds just tearing

954
00:56:50,840 --> 00:56:54,880
Speaker 1: it up. The hens fly down, they fly down near us,

955
00:56:55,400 --> 00:56:58,640
Speaker 1: they ease out in the opening. So oh, this is

956
00:56:58,760 --> 00:57:02,720
Speaker 1: looking really good, right, and so here comes the gobbler.

957
00:57:03,320 --> 00:57:05,839
Speaker 1: But there was a little rise not far from us,

958
00:57:05,960 --> 00:57:09,239
Speaker 1: and the gobbler got behind that, and so now he

959
00:57:09,520 --> 00:57:13,480
Speaker 1: is at eight yards and Marcus does not have his

960
00:57:13,680 --> 00:57:18,960
Speaker 1: gun in just the right position, and so he finally

961
00:57:19,080 --> 00:57:22,040
Speaker 1: eases his gun over. The bird sees it. He's starting

962
00:57:22,080 --> 00:57:24,320
Speaker 1: to walk a little you know, quick walk a little bit.

963
00:57:24,560 --> 00:57:29,160
Speaker 1: Marcus shoots, hits the bird. The bird tumbles and rolls,

964
00:57:29,680 --> 00:57:34,840
Speaker 1: and Marcus shoots again and again, and the bird jumps

965
00:57:34,960 --> 00:57:37,920
Speaker 1: up and flies. And you know, I didn't have a shotgun.

966
00:57:38,400 --> 00:57:42,960
Speaker 1: I'm not hunting, and Jake is sitting behind us, and

967
00:57:43,080 --> 00:57:46,680
Speaker 1: I said, you know, shoot, shoot, and Jake shoots, and

968
00:57:46,800 --> 00:57:48,920
Speaker 1: the bird, you know, kind of does a slow dive

969
00:57:49,160 --> 00:57:52,880
Speaker 1: and so he lands about one hundred and twenty yards

970
00:57:53,680 --> 00:57:56,440
Speaker 1: out in this recent clearcut.

971
00:57:57,200 --> 00:57:57,400
Speaker 3: Jake.

972
00:57:57,600 --> 00:58:00,680
Speaker 1: Now, Jake's a tall boy, He's like h six seven

973
00:58:00,840 --> 00:58:04,640
Speaker 1: or something and long legs. He is just striding out

974
00:58:04,720 --> 00:58:08,000
Speaker 1: there chasing this turkey. And now the turkey's flopping and

975
00:58:08,120 --> 00:58:11,240
Speaker 1: flying and half running and whatever else. And there's Jackie

976
00:58:11,400 --> 00:58:16,680
Speaker 1: flops onto the bird. He was out of shells, uses

977
00:58:16,720 --> 00:58:19,600
Speaker 1: the shotgun as a club to try to get the

978
00:58:19,680 --> 00:58:23,600
Speaker 1: bird down. Finally wrestles with him. Feathers are flying everywhere,

979
00:58:24,000 --> 00:58:26,200
Speaker 1: and he finally comes up with this bird in his hand.

980
00:58:26,280 --> 00:58:28,560
Speaker 1: He's got this huge smile on his face. And we

981
00:58:28,680 --> 00:58:30,880
Speaker 1: all meet and congratulating whatnot.

982
00:58:31,960 --> 00:58:38,000
Speaker 3: So who gets the bird? The guy that shot it first.

983
00:58:38,440 --> 00:58:41,480
Speaker 1: And so there's Marcus. Now Marcus shot it first. But

984
00:58:41,720 --> 00:58:44,800
Speaker 1: here and I'm learning as the morning goes on, Jake

985
00:58:44,840 --> 00:58:47,360
Speaker 1: has only killed one bird. You know, here's a new

986
00:58:47,520 --> 00:58:51,440
Speaker 1: graduate student. And uh and I'm I'm Marcus. You know,

987
00:58:51,480 --> 00:58:53,680
Speaker 1: what are you gonna do here? What are you gonna do? Well?

988
00:58:54,040 --> 00:58:57,120
Speaker 1: You know, I shot him, and uh, I said Marcus.

989
00:58:57,160 --> 00:59:01,040
Speaker 1: I said, Jake's only killed one bird before. Long story short,

990
00:59:01,520 --> 00:59:05,240
Speaker 1: They split the meat. Marcus gets the spurs and Jake

991
00:59:05,360 --> 00:59:10,320
Speaker 1: got the bears DVD. I thought that was pretty man.

992
00:59:10,600 --> 00:59:13,280
Speaker 3: It is good. A couple more quick things, but this

993
00:59:13,400 --> 00:59:15,520
Speaker 3: goods has to do with turkeys. I got two more questions,

994
00:59:17,720 --> 00:59:23,120
Speaker 3: a couple more questions for you. Here's when it came

995
00:59:23,160 --> 00:59:25,160
Speaker 3: in from a guy and I just experienced the same things.

996
00:59:25,240 --> 00:59:27,240
Speaker 3: Let me hit you with this. Let me hit with this, craig.

997
00:59:28,440 --> 00:59:31,920
Speaker 3: My name is Luke Birch. I'm from eastern North Carolina.

998
00:59:34,520 --> 00:59:37,120
Speaker 3: I have lived here my whole life. I love hunting

999
00:59:37,120 --> 00:59:40,720
Speaker 3: in this great state. Recently drew a tag to hunt

1000
00:59:40,760 --> 00:59:45,400
Speaker 3: game lands here. I don't claim to be a wildlife biologist,

1001
00:59:45,600 --> 00:59:48,120
Speaker 3: but just have to ask your opinion on controlled burns.

1002
00:59:48,360 --> 00:59:51,280
Speaker 3: I am all four controlled burns, but can't understand why

1003
00:59:51,360 --> 00:59:54,160
Speaker 3: it seems the state always does them and nesting season.

1004
00:59:55,600 --> 00:59:57,840
Speaker 3: I just got an ear flip. Before you answer, I

1005
00:59:57,880 --> 01:00:01,080
Speaker 3: want to tell you what happened with me. I have

1006
01:00:01,200 --> 01:00:05,120
Speaker 3: discovered multiple scrambled turkey nests and these pine plantations that

1007
01:00:05,200 --> 01:00:09,400
Speaker 3: are under prescribe burn plants. Our states started planning long

1008
01:00:09,520 --> 01:00:12,320
Speaker 3: leaf pines sometime back and are also trying to bring

1009
01:00:12,440 --> 01:00:15,480
Speaker 3: back a healthier quail population. But I don't see that

1010
01:00:15,600 --> 01:00:19,320
Speaker 3: as being super efficient, considering prescribed burns seem always to

1011
01:00:19,400 --> 01:00:22,360
Speaker 3: take place during nesting season. When I was just down

1012
01:00:22,400 --> 01:00:28,040
Speaker 3: in Florida, out in Big Cypress, I was there. I

1013
01:00:28,120 --> 01:00:30,760
Speaker 3: was there before the turkey season open. We weren't hunting turkeys,

1014
01:00:30,800 --> 01:00:33,600
Speaker 3: but I was with a turkey hunter doing a little tour.

1015
01:00:34,280 --> 01:00:36,600
Speaker 3: They had stuff burning everywhere in there, and he says

1016
01:00:36,600 --> 01:00:38,000
Speaker 3: the same thing, Why do they got to burn it

1017
01:00:38,040 --> 01:00:44,240
Speaker 3: when they like they gotta be cooking turkey nests? True?

1018
01:00:44,400 --> 01:00:45,520
Speaker 1: How much time do we have?

1019
01:00:47,320 --> 01:00:48,400
Speaker 3: As much time as you want?

1020
01:00:49,040 --> 01:00:53,200
Speaker 1: Well, this is uh. I hate to say this a

1021
01:00:53,280 --> 01:00:53,840
Speaker 1: hot topic.

1022
01:00:54,160 --> 01:00:57,120
Speaker 3: I don't know that I'd like to say.

1023
01:00:57,320 --> 01:01:00,120
Speaker 1: I'm not one with pun but it is of a

1024
01:01:00,240 --> 01:01:02,760
Speaker 1: very hot topic, and it's discussed a lot and has

1025
01:01:02,880 --> 01:01:06,080
Speaker 1: been a lot over the past few to several years.

1026
01:01:08,160 --> 01:01:10,960
Speaker 1: Some turkey nests very well may be burned up, but

1027
01:01:12,000 --> 01:01:16,400
Speaker 1: whether that is having a detrimental effect on the population

1028
01:01:16,640 --> 01:01:20,280
Speaker 1: or not is more related to the scale of burning,

1029
01:01:20,560 --> 01:01:23,960
Speaker 1: how often they are burning. So, if you're burning on

1030
01:01:24,040 --> 01:01:27,680
Speaker 1: a relative small scale, and relative can be defined in

1031
01:01:27,760 --> 01:01:31,000
Speaker 1: a little bit, but on a small scale, and you

1032
01:01:31,120 --> 01:01:33,600
Speaker 1: burn up a nest or two, whoop you do. That's

1033
01:01:33,640 --> 01:01:38,440
Speaker 1: not going to affect the population in that area per se.

1034
01:01:39,200 --> 01:01:44,320
Speaker 1: But if you're managing your property for turkeys, unlet's say

1035
01:01:44,360 --> 01:01:47,280
Speaker 1: you have one hundred acres or seven hundred acres or whatever,

1036
01:01:47,320 --> 01:01:52,080
Speaker 1: and you're managing it for turkeys, then I'm in agreement

1037
01:01:52,240 --> 01:01:55,480
Speaker 1: with the guy. I'm not going to be burning during

1038
01:01:55,640 --> 01:02:00,800
Speaker 1: the nesting season when I could destroy some nest and

1039
01:02:00,960 --> 01:02:02,800
Speaker 1: so I want to give the turkeys every bit of

1040
01:02:02,880 --> 01:02:06,880
Speaker 1: advantage I can, because it's very easy to do my

1041
01:02:07,000 --> 01:02:10,800
Speaker 1: burning earlier prior to the nesting season, or do my

1042
01:02:10,880 --> 01:02:16,280
Speaker 1: burning later. You know, one thing that should be considered

1043
01:02:16,480 --> 01:02:20,960
Speaker 1: among fire practitioners is that every day is a potential

1044
01:02:21,040 --> 01:02:25,160
Speaker 1: burn day. You don't just have to burn in March

1045
01:02:25,280 --> 01:02:27,640
Speaker 1: or April. You can burn in August, you can burn

1046
01:02:27,680 --> 01:02:29,640
Speaker 1: in September, you can burn in July, you can burn

1047
01:02:29,720 --> 01:02:33,800
Speaker 1: in December, whenever. Now, your timing of burning can have

1048
01:02:34,080 --> 01:02:38,160
Speaker 1: a differential effect on the vegetation. But if I'm managing

1049
01:02:38,600 --> 01:02:42,160
Speaker 1: specifically for turkeys, I'm not going to be burning during

1050
01:02:42,240 --> 01:02:46,600
Speaker 1: the during the nesting season. Now, I'm sure what he's

1051
01:02:46,640 --> 01:02:49,400
Speaker 1: talking about is probably on the Crouatan National Forest and

1052
01:02:49,560 --> 01:02:53,360
Speaker 1: in eastern North Carolina, and so they're doing their scale

1053
01:02:53,400 --> 01:02:58,760
Speaker 1: of burning is larger. They largely are managing for an

1054
01:02:58,840 --> 01:03:03,520
Speaker 1: ecosystem for which turkeys are a part of, but not

1055
01:03:03,760 --> 01:03:12,000
Speaker 1: managing specifically for turkeys. So fired during all seasons can

1056
01:03:12,360 --> 01:03:15,280
Speaker 1: play a role in that and should be done. But

1057
01:03:15,720 --> 01:03:20,600
Speaker 1: even for them and other federal and state agencies I

1058
01:03:20,680 --> 01:03:23,920
Speaker 1: would strongly encourage to burn at other times of the

1059
01:03:24,040 --> 01:03:29,320
Speaker 1: year also, even for you know, quote ecosystem management in

1060
01:03:29,640 --> 01:03:35,880
Speaker 1: various ecosystems, not just in March April. Chris Mormons a

1061
01:03:35,920 --> 01:03:40,800
Speaker 1: professor at North Carolina State University, and he led projects

1062
01:03:40,800 --> 01:03:46,040
Speaker 1: at Fort Bragg and one of those was was on turkeys,

1063
01:03:46,640 --> 01:03:50,880
Speaker 1: and I was on the committee for the graduate student there.

1064
01:03:51,400 --> 01:03:58,120
Speaker 1: And what we found was the preponderance of nests while

1065
01:03:58,200 --> 01:04:03,160
Speaker 1: turkey nests were in the drainages that did not burn,

1066
01:04:04,720 --> 01:04:09,160
Speaker 1: they were burning on a two year fire turn interval

1067
01:04:10,920 --> 01:04:13,440
Speaker 1: in long leaf pine and in the sand hills of

1068
01:04:13,480 --> 01:04:20,680
Speaker 1: North Carolina, and they're promoting endemic plants, especially wiregrass underneath

1069
01:04:20,720 --> 01:04:25,040
Speaker 1: the long leaf in many of those areas. And they

1070
01:04:25,120 --> 01:04:28,920
Speaker 1: conducted most of their fires during the early portion of

1071
01:04:28,960 --> 01:04:31,840
Speaker 1: the growing season, and most of that would be done

1072
01:04:32,120 --> 01:04:37,000
Speaker 1: in April May and some in June, for example, but

1073
01:04:37,120 --> 01:04:41,200
Speaker 1: most in April and May. And we did not document

1074
01:04:41,560 --> 01:04:45,240
Speaker 1: many turkey nests getting burned. I think it was like

1075
01:04:45,840 --> 01:04:48,280
Speaker 1: it was less than ten percent. I think it was

1076
01:04:48,320 --> 01:04:51,760
Speaker 1: like six percent or something like that that were disturbed

1077
01:04:51,840 --> 01:04:54,680
Speaker 1: or destroyed by burning, which would not in and of

1078
01:04:54,760 --> 01:04:59,280
Speaker 1: itself have an effect on the population. And so one

1079
01:04:59,400 --> 01:05:03,000
Speaker 1: message could be, oh, growing season, fire doesn't have an

1080
01:05:03,000 --> 01:05:04,520
Speaker 1: effect on wild turkey nests.

1081
01:05:04,920 --> 01:05:05,720
Speaker 3: But wait a minute.

1082
01:05:06,040 --> 01:05:08,960
Speaker 1: When you looked at the distribution of the nest where

1083
01:05:09,040 --> 01:05:15,600
Speaker 1: they occurred, the turkeys were avoiding that grassy understory which

1084
01:05:15,680 --> 01:05:19,040
Speaker 1: was very sparse with regard to cover, but concentrating their

1085
01:05:19,120 --> 01:05:24,040
Speaker 1: nests in the drainages which would not burn. And so

1086
01:05:24,600 --> 01:05:27,919
Speaker 1: you know, you can twist the results a little differently there.

1087
01:05:28,280 --> 01:05:31,600
Speaker 1: And so there's no doubt that the timing and frequency

1088
01:05:31,680 --> 01:05:37,240
Speaker 1: of their fire strongly influenced while turkey nesting, essentially forcing

1089
01:05:37,320 --> 01:05:41,760
Speaker 1: them to nest in other areas that were relatively small,

1090
01:05:42,480 --> 01:05:46,640
Speaker 1: oftentimes linear. You could make the argument that then you

1091
01:05:46,720 --> 01:05:50,120
Speaker 1: could have increased amount of predation on those nests because

1092
01:05:50,200 --> 01:05:53,800
Speaker 1: of how they were placed in range. So they had

1093
01:05:53,960 --> 01:06:00,400
Speaker 1: effectively removed a lot of what would be much better

1094
01:06:00,520 --> 01:06:03,480
Speaker 1: cover for nesting by their burning regime at that time.

1095
01:06:04,440 --> 01:06:09,520
Speaker 3: Man, here's another one from a listener. Well, no, it's

1096
01:06:09,600 --> 01:06:12,480
Speaker 3: just a thing. We it's just a piece of reporting,

1097
01:06:15,040 --> 01:06:18,840
Speaker 3: and it's apropos because we're in Kansas right now. Kansas,

1098
01:06:19,000 --> 01:06:21,680
Speaker 3: it looks like they're gonna do away fixing the du

1099
01:06:21,760 --> 01:06:26,000
Speaker 3: away of fall turkey hunting season, the number of fall

1100
01:06:26,440 --> 01:06:29,200
Speaker 3: This really surprised me. The number of fall turkey hunters

1101
01:06:29,200 --> 01:06:32,600
Speaker 3: across the state has fallen greatly since twenty fifteen, at

1102
01:06:32,640 --> 01:06:39,440
Speaker 3: a rate of twenty percent per year. In twenty nineteen,

1103
01:06:39,880 --> 01:06:43,480
Speaker 3: they dropped fall turkey season dates, so they reduced a

1104
01:06:43,600 --> 01:06:47,240
Speaker 3: meaning they used to be open October one to January thirty. First,

1105
01:06:47,280 --> 01:06:54,760
Speaker 3: what the hell's out now? Four months of fall turkey season,

1106
01:06:56,000 --> 01:06:58,320
Speaker 3: So then you're figuring that they were at plus they

1107
01:06:58,360 --> 01:07:01,640
Speaker 3: were at it was basically close to six months out

1108
01:07:01,640 --> 01:07:07,200
Speaker 3: of the year's turkey season, like usually turkey season in Kansas.

1109
01:07:07,360 --> 01:07:12,960
Speaker 3: Right then they reduced it October one through November ten,

1110
01:07:13,120 --> 01:07:19,320
Speaker 3: so they asked off a lot. Right now, Fishing Game

1111
01:07:20,040 --> 01:07:24,800
Speaker 3: Agency staff are recommending that fall season be suspended all

1112
01:07:24,880 --> 01:07:28,640
Speaker 3: together in twenty twenty three. What's your take on shooting

1113
01:07:28,640 --> 01:07:29,360
Speaker 3: turkeys in the fall.

1114
01:07:30,960 --> 01:07:35,040
Speaker 1: That's a good question and something that we've thought a

1115
01:07:35,120 --> 01:07:39,400
Speaker 1: lot about in Tennessee here in recent years. You know,

1116
01:07:39,520 --> 01:07:42,760
Speaker 1: in Tennessee there's been a fall season for a long time,

1117
01:07:43,040 --> 01:07:46,240
Speaker 1: and for the longest time, and I don't remember when

1118
01:07:47,400 --> 01:07:52,240
Speaker 1: the fall season began and when either sex could be taken,

1119
01:07:52,440 --> 01:07:57,040
Speaker 1: but for many years you could shoot hens or males,

1120
01:07:57,920 --> 01:08:01,440
Speaker 1: females or males during the fall turkey season. That was

1121
01:08:01,600 --> 01:08:06,720
Speaker 1: changed a couple of years ago to mail only, but

1122
01:08:07,000 --> 01:08:13,640
Speaker 1: still today the regulation is you can kill a male

1123
01:08:14,320 --> 01:08:17,920
Speaker 1: per county in the counties that it's open, and it's

1124
01:08:17,960 --> 01:08:20,880
Speaker 1: opening a bunch of counties, Like there's ninety five counties

1125
01:08:20,920 --> 01:08:23,120
Speaker 1: in Tennessee, and I think it's seventy seven counties where

1126
01:08:23,360 --> 01:08:26,639
Speaker 1: you can fall turkey hunt now, so you were.

1127
01:08:26,600 --> 01:08:29,840
Speaker 3: Like the most cracked command on the planet. You kill

1128
01:08:29,960 --> 01:08:31,439
Speaker 3: seventy five gobblers in the fall.

1129
01:08:31,840 --> 01:08:34,280
Speaker 1: Well, there's not that many days in the fall season,

1130
01:08:34,400 --> 01:08:37,800
Speaker 1: but you theorytically kill one and every day of the man.

1131
01:08:38,439 --> 01:08:42,200
Speaker 1: But while that theoretically could be a problem, it's not

1132
01:08:42,760 --> 01:08:46,880
Speaker 1: because in Tennessee, I think there's only like four to

1133
01:08:47,000 --> 01:08:53,040
Speaker 1: five hundred birds harvested annually during the fall season. But

1134
01:08:54,040 --> 01:09:00,240
Speaker 1: in my opinion, a fall bird should count toward the

1135
01:09:00,400 --> 01:09:05,120
Speaker 1: statewide annual bag limit, and in many cases it does not,

1136
01:09:06,200 --> 01:09:09,599
Speaker 1: and in Tennessee it does not. I think that's something

1137
01:09:09,640 --> 01:09:15,240
Speaker 1: that could be improved. You know, it really matters as

1138
01:09:15,320 --> 01:09:16,960
Speaker 1: to how many are killed.

1139
01:09:17,520 --> 01:09:18,680
Speaker 3: But the.

1140
01:09:20,400 --> 01:09:26,200
Speaker 1: Thought of shooting females in the fall in areas or

1141
01:09:26,280 --> 01:09:30,639
Speaker 1: in a state that is suffering a decline in turkey population.

1142
01:09:31,080 --> 01:09:35,280
Speaker 1: I don't think that's smart. I would not agree to

1143
01:09:35,400 --> 01:09:39,439
Speaker 1: have a female harvest in the fall. If there are

1144
01:09:39,560 --> 01:09:43,080
Speaker 1: concerns about the turkey population and the harvest has been

1145
01:09:43,160 --> 01:09:47,000
Speaker 1: going down as it has in so many states. What

1146
01:09:47,200 --> 01:09:47,479
Speaker 1: do you.

1147
01:09:49,280 --> 01:09:54,320
Speaker 3: What do you to What do you attribute the general

1148
01:09:57,000 --> 01:10:05,480
Speaker 3: decline in turkeys that we're seeing in the southeastern US, Missouri, Arkansas, Kansas.

1149
01:10:07,320 --> 01:10:10,360
Speaker 3: I'm not sure other areas how widespread it is in

1150
01:10:10,439 --> 01:10:12,439
Speaker 3: other areas, but like to what I know, it's a

1151
01:10:12,520 --> 01:10:15,920
Speaker 3: very complicated question, But what do you think, like when

1152
01:10:15,960 --> 01:10:17,400
Speaker 3: you had to name the things that are going on?

1153
01:10:17,560 --> 01:10:18,040
Speaker 3: What's going on?

1154
01:10:19,720 --> 01:10:25,000
Speaker 1: It is a very complicated question. And we were discussing

1155
01:10:25,080 --> 01:10:27,640
Speaker 1: some of this over the past couple of days and

1156
01:10:28,360 --> 01:10:31,519
Speaker 1: with one of the guys that was asking me about

1157
01:10:31,520 --> 01:10:34,360
Speaker 1: it while we're walking around to property. You know, I

1158
01:10:34,520 --> 01:10:39,640
Speaker 1: mentioned think about what are the main issues or problems

1159
01:10:39,840 --> 01:10:44,200
Speaker 1: that could lead to a decline in turkey population. One

1160
01:10:44,760 --> 01:10:49,240
Speaker 1: is hunter harvest. You know that kills more males than

1161
01:10:49,320 --> 01:10:58,400
Speaker 1: anything else. Predators. Predators can be an issue. Disease obviously

1162
01:10:58,760 --> 01:11:02,000
Speaker 1: can be an issue, and then other things such as

1163
01:11:02,120 --> 01:11:08,519
Speaker 1: weather and so all of the there's an adage that

1164
01:11:09,320 --> 01:11:14,519
Speaker 1: you'll hear commonly death by a thousand cuts, and I

1165
01:11:15,240 --> 01:11:18,920
Speaker 1: generally agree with that. But some cuts are deeper than others,

1166
01:11:19,720 --> 01:11:23,080
Speaker 1: and some cuts are deeper in some areas than in

1167
01:11:23,240 --> 01:11:27,120
Speaker 1: other areas, and so nothing is the same over all

1168
01:11:27,200 --> 01:11:30,879
Speaker 1: the states or all the places where turkeys have declined.

1169
01:11:31,760 --> 01:11:35,920
Speaker 1: How many properties do you hear of? I know, I've

1170
01:11:36,040 --> 01:11:39,920
Speaker 1: visited many, and they might be seventy acres, or they

1171
01:11:40,000 --> 01:11:43,519
Speaker 1: might be seven hundred, or they might be five thousand acres.

1172
01:11:43,600 --> 01:11:44,080
Speaker 3: What have you?

1173
01:11:44,960 --> 01:11:47,920
Speaker 1: And they'll say, man, we used to have, you know,

1174
01:11:49,080 --> 01:11:52,240
Speaker 1: groups of one hundred birds, or you know, some properties

1175
01:11:52,280 --> 01:11:54,559
Speaker 1: even more than that, or it might be we would

1176
01:11:54,600 --> 01:11:57,920
Speaker 1: regularly see groups of thirty birds, and now we only

1177
01:11:58,000 --> 01:12:00,479
Speaker 1: see eight, or we only see twenty areas, whatever the

1178
01:12:00,560 --> 01:12:06,000
Speaker 1: case may be. And we used to kill ten gobblers

1179
01:12:06,040 --> 01:12:08,880
Speaker 1: a year, or twenty or forty, whatever the case may be,

1180
01:12:09,000 --> 01:12:12,439
Speaker 1: on these properties. Now we only kill eight or three,

1181
01:12:12,720 --> 01:12:15,800
Speaker 1: or whatever the case may be. Well, think about the

1182
01:12:15,920 --> 01:12:21,000
Speaker 1: productivity of turkeys, how it goes up and down.

1183
01:12:21,560 --> 01:12:21,840
Speaker 3: We have.

1184
01:12:23,520 --> 01:12:29,759
Speaker 1: Typically now more relatively poor hatch years than good hatch years.

1185
01:12:30,800 --> 01:12:37,040
Speaker 1: But the hunter harvest, the hunter effort largely remains the same,

1186
01:12:38,040 --> 01:12:41,400
Speaker 1: and so if there's a certain number of gobblers on

1187
01:12:41,520 --> 01:12:43,960
Speaker 1: a property and you've been killing on average, you know,

1188
01:12:44,080 --> 01:12:47,120
Speaker 1: ten or twelve every year or whatever, and then you

1189
01:12:47,280 --> 01:12:49,640
Speaker 1: have a poor hatch year, or a couple of them

1190
01:12:49,680 --> 01:12:52,120
Speaker 1: in a row or whatnot, that's going to show up

1191
01:12:52,880 --> 01:12:55,120
Speaker 1: in a couple of years with regard to the number

1192
01:12:55,320 --> 01:12:59,479
Speaker 1: of goblin birds. And it might be that you, the

1193
01:13:00,080 --> 01:13:03,639
Speaker 1: landowner or one of the people who hunt, you only

1194
01:13:03,760 --> 01:13:05,720
Speaker 1: kill one, or maybe you try to kill your state

1195
01:13:05,760 --> 01:13:08,519
Speaker 1: wide limit on there or whatever, and there's other people

1196
01:13:08,520 --> 01:13:11,280
Speaker 1: who also hunt the property with you. Everybody's gonna try

1197
01:13:11,320 --> 01:13:13,920
Speaker 1: to get one, you know. Usually that's the case. And

1198
01:13:14,080 --> 01:13:19,639
Speaker 1: so the harvest intensity, the pressure remains the same, although

1199
01:13:19,760 --> 01:13:24,880
Speaker 1: the productivity has lowered, and I am confident that on

1200
01:13:25,680 --> 01:13:30,640
Speaker 1: many properties and likely in many regions and larger that

1201
01:13:30,760 --> 01:13:35,320
Speaker 1: has been problematic as the productivity of turkeys has gone down,

1202
01:13:35,880 --> 01:13:38,760
Speaker 1: but the harvest intensity has remained the same.

1203
01:13:39,040 --> 01:13:41,680
Speaker 3: But people have been told, and I've even mentioned this,

1204
01:13:43,320 --> 01:13:51,080
Speaker 3: maybe erroneously, that hens are going to get bred. So

1205
01:13:51,400 --> 01:13:54,600
Speaker 3: whether you have let's see you have, let's come up

1206
01:13:54,640 --> 01:13:57,760
Speaker 3: with some hypothetical population. You fill in the numbers. For me,

1207
01:13:57,880 --> 01:14:03,880
Speaker 3: we have a hypothetical population of one hundred breeding age females. Okay,

1208
01:14:06,120 --> 01:14:07,840
Speaker 3: and I don't know the exact numbers, but maybe you

1209
01:14:07,880 --> 01:14:10,320
Speaker 3: can help me with the exact numbers. There's one hundred

1210
01:14:10,320 --> 01:14:14,080
Speaker 3: breeding age females. Let's say there's sixty breeding age males.

1211
01:14:14,120 --> 01:14:16,920
Speaker 3: You'd be like, Okay, all those females are, they're gonna

1212
01:14:16,960 --> 01:14:19,400
Speaker 3: get bread, They're eggs will be fertilized. But then there's

1213
01:14:19,439 --> 01:14:23,760
Speaker 3: only forty breeding age males, right, all those females will

1214
01:14:23,760 --> 01:14:29,000
Speaker 3: still get fertilized. So, and perhaps I'm wrong, but but

1215
01:14:29,320 --> 01:14:34,799
Speaker 3: since all this hunter harvest is targeting males and not hens,

1216
01:14:37,400 --> 01:14:39,400
Speaker 3: they're still gonna get They're still gonna lay the same

1217
01:14:39,479 --> 01:14:41,240
Speaker 3: number of eggs they would lay. Is that not true?

1218
01:14:41,520 --> 01:14:45,880
Speaker 1: Well, there's still natural mortality other than hunting, which also

1219
01:14:46,160 --> 01:14:47,480
Speaker 1: is placed on the females.

1220
01:14:47,560 --> 01:14:47,880
Speaker 3: And so.

1221
01:14:49,360 --> 01:14:53,680
Speaker 1: The ratio of males to females in the clutch might

1222
01:14:53,800 --> 01:14:57,800
Speaker 1: be biased a little bit towards males, but still then

1223
01:14:57,880 --> 01:15:00,960
Speaker 1: the number of females is gonna go down. Also with

1224
01:15:01,200 --> 01:15:05,840
Speaker 1: you know, perhaps a fifteen to thirty percent natural mortality

1225
01:15:05,960 --> 01:15:09,479
Speaker 1: rate on the females and males typically, you know, we're

1226
01:15:09,520 --> 01:15:13,880
Speaker 1: seeing twenty to thirty percent natural mortality rate on the males,

1227
01:15:13,960 --> 01:15:18,120
Speaker 1: but the hunter harvest is usually greater than that. In Tennessee,

1228
01:15:18,320 --> 01:15:23,160
Speaker 1: we've seen anywhere from twenty to forty five percent male

1229
01:15:23,280 --> 01:15:28,560
Speaker 1: harvest and any given year, yes, and so if that

1230
01:15:28,760 --> 01:15:32,479
Speaker 1: is continued and you have poor productivity over a couple

1231
01:15:32,520 --> 01:15:37,000
Speaker 1: of years or whatever, the number of mature gobblers on

1232
01:15:37,080 --> 01:15:40,439
Speaker 1: a property is going to go down. You're shooting them. Now,

1233
01:15:40,520 --> 01:15:43,639
Speaker 1: I'm not saying that has happened everywhere, but I'm confident

1234
01:15:43,760 --> 01:15:49,200
Speaker 1: that that has happened on many properties. The other issues,

1235
01:15:49,680 --> 01:15:53,839
Speaker 1: for example, with predation, I mean, I don't think anyone

1236
01:15:53,880 --> 01:15:58,640
Speaker 1: would disagree that the meso mammals have exploded over the

1237
01:15:58,720 --> 01:16:07,200
Speaker 1: past twenty thirty years. The coons, possums, skunks, armadillas in

1238
01:16:07,360 --> 01:16:14,000
Speaker 1: many places, and nobody is killing them. And we've identified

1239
01:16:14,080 --> 01:16:19,280
Speaker 1: that as the primary problem with regard to nest success.

1240
01:16:19,760 --> 01:16:22,920
Speaker 1: You know, most of the nests are being depredated, and

1241
01:16:23,400 --> 01:16:26,920
Speaker 1: you know, on average we're seeing about thirty to thirty

1242
01:16:27,000 --> 01:16:31,000
Speaker 1: three percent nest success overall, which is which is decent.

1243
01:16:31,200 --> 01:16:36,320
Speaker 1: But the main problem is the predation. One thing that

1244
01:16:36,479 --> 01:16:40,160
Speaker 1: we have not noted is disease as a problem. Now

1245
01:16:40,360 --> 01:16:44,360
Speaker 1: you know, we've seen blackhead and other diseases but not

1246
01:16:44,560 --> 01:16:52,240
Speaker 1: at any rate that would cause a population decline, and

1247
01:16:52,439 --> 01:16:55,560
Speaker 1: so we have not been able to identify disease. And

1248
01:16:55,600 --> 01:16:58,320
Speaker 1: I'm talking about in the Tennessee study as a reason

1249
01:16:58,520 --> 01:17:04,080
Speaker 1: for the Turkey declares line. In those areas, predation is

1250
01:17:04,400 --> 01:17:08,479
Speaker 1: a problem. We have not been able to identify weather

1251
01:17:08,600 --> 01:17:11,160
Speaker 1: as a problem, and there's been some other projects that

1252
01:17:11,240 --> 01:17:13,920
Speaker 1: looked at that, but weather is one of those that

1253
01:17:14,080 --> 01:17:19,639
Speaker 1: is very difficult to get a handle on because most

1254
01:17:19,720 --> 01:17:22,880
Speaker 1: of the studies will rely on weather data from some

1255
01:17:23,080 --> 01:17:25,960
Speaker 1: nearby weather station that might be a mile, that might

1256
01:17:26,040 --> 01:17:29,439
Speaker 1: be five miles or whatever away. Well, a weather event

1257
01:17:29,640 --> 01:17:34,519
Speaker 1: can be relatively small with regard to intensity, and so

1258
01:17:34,800 --> 01:17:37,160
Speaker 1: a lot of that may not be captured. You know,

1259
01:17:37,240 --> 01:17:40,680
Speaker 1: we could see problems related to weather that we're not

1260
01:17:40,880 --> 01:17:45,560
Speaker 1: capturing in the data. But I would not doubt that

1261
01:17:46,640 --> 01:17:50,200
Speaker 1: weather in some areas in some years can be problematic.

1262
01:17:50,600 --> 01:17:54,120
Speaker 1: But it's difficult to quantify that and get a good

1263
01:17:54,160 --> 01:17:56,640
Speaker 1: handle on it. But we do know that predation is

1264
01:17:56,720 --> 01:17:59,920
Speaker 1: a problem, and we do know that hunter or harbor

1265
01:18:00,600 --> 01:18:06,360
Speaker 1: can be a problem, whether that be usually continuing to

1266
01:18:06,479 --> 01:18:10,680
Speaker 1: shoot as many as you can, and you're continuing to

1267
01:18:10,760 --> 01:18:15,840
Speaker 1: do that when the productivity has gone down at least

1268
01:18:15,920 --> 01:18:19,479
Speaker 1: in certain years. So there's a thing called adaptive resource

1269
01:18:19,600 --> 01:18:24,760
Speaker 1: management where you try to adapt the regulations according to

1270
01:18:24,840 --> 01:18:29,400
Speaker 1: what's going on. But there's no state that changes its

1271
01:18:29,479 --> 01:18:32,720
Speaker 1: bag limits, for example, from year to year based on

1272
01:18:33,360 --> 01:18:36,519
Speaker 1: POLP er hen surveys or anything else. And even on

1273
01:18:36,640 --> 01:18:41,240
Speaker 1: a WMA with quotas, more times than not things have

1274
01:18:41,320 --> 01:18:44,120
Speaker 1: to get pretty bad before they change the number of

1275
01:18:44,240 --> 01:18:48,880
Speaker 1: quotas issued, etc. So I think that can be a

1276
01:18:49,000 --> 01:18:54,519
Speaker 1: real issue with regard to a sustained hunter pressure. But

1277
01:18:54,720 --> 01:18:58,439
Speaker 1: in the face of lower productivity, we're shooting a lot

1278
01:18:58,520 --> 01:19:02,719
Speaker 1: of gobblers and they're not being recruited at the same

1279
01:19:02,840 --> 01:19:04,120
Speaker 1: rate that they're being removed.

1280
01:19:14,120 --> 01:19:16,320
Speaker 3: What are some of the extremes that you're aware of

1281
01:19:17,720 --> 01:19:21,400
Speaker 3: in terms of how many male turkeys out of a

1282
01:19:21,479 --> 01:19:23,479
Speaker 3: population are killed by hunters. I know you said like

1283
01:19:23,600 --> 01:19:24,720
Speaker 3: in Texas, it's really low.

1284
01:19:26,080 --> 01:19:30,519
Speaker 1: Texas is low where you have large properties and not

1285
01:19:30,720 --> 01:19:35,120
Speaker 1: that many people, especially large private properties, it's typical to

1286
01:19:35,280 --> 01:19:38,280
Speaker 1: have lower hunter harvest, as you might imagine, But in

1287
01:19:38,400 --> 01:19:41,280
Speaker 1: areas where the property sizes are smaller and you have

1288
01:19:41,520 --> 01:19:45,800
Speaker 1: a lot of hunters, it's not unusual to hardly ever

1289
01:19:45,920 --> 01:19:48,160
Speaker 1: see what you figure to be a three year old bird.

1290
01:19:49,160 --> 01:19:51,360
Speaker 1: Most of the goblin birds are two year olds. So

1291
01:19:51,600 --> 01:19:53,960
Speaker 1: what does that sound like. It sounds a lot like

1292
01:19:54,160 --> 01:19:55,280
Speaker 1: deer management, doesn't it.

1293
01:19:55,760 --> 01:19:59,840
Speaker 3: You know where? Well, let's back up for a second.

1294
01:20:00,960 --> 01:20:06,280
Speaker 1: Thanks to Joe Hamilton and al brothers, most deer hunters

1295
01:20:06,360 --> 01:20:09,479
Speaker 1: in the country practice what we call quality deer management,

1296
01:20:09,840 --> 01:20:12,760
Speaker 1: and that has lots of facets, but one of the

1297
01:20:13,479 --> 01:20:17,280
Speaker 1: main things is to let young bucks walk and let

1298
01:20:17,360 --> 01:20:20,680
Speaker 1: them gain some level of maturity before you kill them.

1299
01:20:21,720 --> 01:20:26,000
Speaker 1: We don't have that luxury with turkeys. We can look

1300
01:20:26,040 --> 01:20:31,680
Speaker 1: at body confirmation characteristics to be able to estimate the

1301
01:20:31,800 --> 01:20:35,400
Speaker 1: age of a buck. We can't look at a male

1302
01:20:35,520 --> 01:20:39,479
Speaker 1: turkey and estimate the age really beyond a jake versus

1303
01:20:39,840 --> 01:20:42,800
Speaker 1: a two or two plus year old, either a jake

1304
01:20:43,240 --> 01:20:45,360
Speaker 1: or a gobbler. If we can look at a turkey

1305
01:20:45,400 --> 01:20:47,800
Speaker 1: and know that it's a two year old, there's a

1306
01:20:47,840 --> 01:20:49,559
Speaker 1: lot of people on a lot of properties that would

1307
01:20:49,600 --> 01:20:51,519
Speaker 1: let that one go. They'd like to see if they

1308
01:20:51,560 --> 01:20:55,919
Speaker 1: couldn't shoot more gobblers with inch and half spurs, for example,

1309
01:20:56,439 --> 01:21:00,960
Speaker 1: but we can't do that. I have hunted properties that

1310
01:21:01,120 --> 01:21:05,800
Speaker 1: are extremely well managed and calling birds might call in

1311
01:21:06,320 --> 01:21:08,400
Speaker 1: four or five birds in a morning, look at the

1312
01:21:08,439 --> 01:21:11,360
Speaker 1: spurs with a binocular and let them go until because

1313
01:21:11,400 --> 01:21:14,719
Speaker 1: I know there's some out there with really long spurs,

1314
01:21:14,760 --> 01:21:18,200
Speaker 1: and killing a bird on this property is not an issue,

1315
01:21:18,640 --> 01:21:22,559
Speaker 1: and so I can be very selective. But that's exceptionally rare.

1316
01:21:23,000 --> 01:21:25,760
Speaker 1: Few properties are that good. Few hunters are going to

1317
01:21:26,280 --> 01:21:29,519
Speaker 1: go to that extent to look at spurs before they

1318
01:21:29,920 --> 01:21:34,400
Speaker 1: shoot the bird. And that's not necessarily a reliable indicator

1319
01:21:34,479 --> 01:21:38,719
Speaker 1: of exact age anyway. But we don't have that luxury

1320
01:21:38,720 --> 01:21:41,840
Speaker 1: of being able to age turkeys like we can deer

1321
01:21:42,040 --> 01:21:45,360
Speaker 1: before we shoot them. But that only and if I

1322
01:21:45,439 --> 01:21:49,719
Speaker 1: can interrupt. And so what that means is we typically

1323
01:21:49,800 --> 01:21:55,000
Speaker 1: shoot gobblers like we would quail flushing up. You know,

1324
01:21:55,080 --> 01:21:57,320
Speaker 1: you're shooting whichever one you can get. So if a

1325
01:21:57,400 --> 01:22:00,120
Speaker 1: goblin bird comes in, oh yeah, here's a goblin and

1326
01:22:00,240 --> 01:22:04,200
Speaker 1: and you shoot it. And so we're not paying attention

1327
01:22:04,720 --> 01:22:09,960
Speaker 1: to allowing the aide structure to increase.

1328
01:22:09,880 --> 01:22:11,719
Speaker 3: Across a property.

1329
01:22:11,800 --> 01:22:14,200
Speaker 1: For example, with a number of gobblers that are there,

1330
01:22:14,800 --> 01:22:17,080
Speaker 1: you're shooting whatever comes in, and with a lot of

1331
01:22:17,160 --> 01:22:21,400
Speaker 1: heavy hunter pressure, it leads to more younger birds.

1332
01:22:22,560 --> 01:22:25,960
Speaker 3: Okay, here's the thing I've never understood. I get it,

1333
01:22:26,040 --> 01:22:32,519
Speaker 3: but trying how to express this. Let's let's take quality

1334
01:22:32,560 --> 01:22:36,559
Speaker 3: deer management for a minute. Is the objective with quality

1335
01:22:36,600 --> 01:22:42,680
Speaker 3: deer management is the objective to satisfy hunter desires to

1336
01:22:43,360 --> 01:22:47,519
Speaker 3: get bigger deer, or is the objective the health of

1337
01:22:47,600 --> 01:22:48,160
Speaker 3: the deer herd?

1338
01:22:48,880 --> 01:22:51,120
Speaker 1: I would strongly argue that it's the health of the

1339
01:22:51,200 --> 01:22:56,840
Speaker 1: deer herd. However, of course many hunters their objective is

1340
01:22:56,960 --> 01:23:00,639
Speaker 1: to shoot the biggest deer they can. But if you're

1341
01:23:00,680 --> 01:23:04,840
Speaker 1: allowing a balanced age structure, then you can see the

1342
01:23:05,000 --> 01:23:09,920
Speaker 1: behavior of the animals take place such that you have

1343
01:23:10,680 --> 01:23:13,760
Speaker 1: dominant animals that are doing a majority.

1344
01:23:13,320 --> 01:23:15,640
Speaker 3: Of the breeding, and that.

1345
01:23:17,240 --> 01:23:19,880
Speaker 1: Pretty much always for most of us, leads to a

1346
01:23:20,000 --> 01:23:22,080
Speaker 1: more exciting hunting opportunity.

1347
01:23:22,240 --> 01:23:27,519
Speaker 3: So why is there not a deer management strategy by

1348
01:23:27,640 --> 01:23:31,720
Speaker 3: which you only kill year and a half old deer

1349
01:23:33,479 --> 01:23:38,479
Speaker 3: and anything that slips through you don't touch. Mean, you

1350
01:23:38,600 --> 01:23:43,000
Speaker 3: kill spikes and forky's okay, But once something becomes a

1351
01:23:43,040 --> 01:23:45,280
Speaker 3: two and a half year old, never touch it because

1352
01:23:45,360 --> 01:23:50,240
Speaker 3: you are so committed, you're so committed to having these

1353
01:23:50,280 --> 01:23:53,720
Speaker 3: different age groups represented that in your management practice, no

1354
01:23:53,800 --> 01:23:56,680
Speaker 3: one is allowed to kill big, huge box because you

1355
01:23:56,760 --> 01:23:59,599
Speaker 3: just shoot the little ones that way, you got these

1356
01:23:59,640 --> 01:24:02,519
Speaker 3: big ones doing the breeding. That would take a lot

1357
01:24:02,560 --> 01:24:03,040
Speaker 3: of conviction.

1358
01:24:03,760 --> 01:24:07,280
Speaker 1: But this is not a thing that exists, no, because

1359
01:24:07,520 --> 01:24:10,120
Speaker 1: the hunting excitement is where the tire meets the road.

1360
01:24:11,439 --> 01:24:14,000
Speaker 1: I mean, there is a hunting strategy where people will

1361
01:24:14,040 --> 01:24:17,720
Speaker 1: shoot a young deer like that, especially for meat, you know,

1362
01:24:17,920 --> 01:24:21,880
Speaker 1: because the meat in general is more tender with younger

1363
01:24:22,360 --> 01:24:28,800
Speaker 1: aged animals. But usually when that happens, the harvest is high,

1364
01:24:29,560 --> 01:24:33,200
Speaker 1: and you're killing such a high percentage of the bucks,

1365
01:24:33,360 --> 01:24:36,519
Speaker 1: you're not getting many into those older age classes.

1366
01:24:36,560 --> 01:24:39,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, they're not. I was kind of I'm asking

1367
01:24:39,200 --> 01:24:43,360
Speaker 3: a rhetorical question because I you know, at the where

1368
01:24:43,400 --> 01:24:47,479
Speaker 3: I grew up, at the time I grew up, throughout

1369
01:24:47,479 --> 01:24:49,479
Speaker 3: my entire childhood, I could tell you about the two

1370
01:24:49,560 --> 01:24:52,240
Speaker 3: deer that were killed within like an eight mile radius

1371
01:24:52,680 --> 01:24:54,040
Speaker 3: my house. I could tell you about the two deer

1372
01:24:54,080 --> 01:24:55,240
Speaker 3: that weren't one and a half years old.

1373
01:24:55,479 --> 01:24:56,280
Speaker 1: You know, they're both.

1374
01:24:56,160 --> 01:24:58,880
Speaker 3: Hanging on the living so this day, hanging on the

1375
01:24:58,960 --> 01:25:04,200
Speaker 3: living room wall of uh my mom's thoughts. And that's

1376
01:25:04,240 --> 01:25:07,840
Speaker 3: the two that in a lot of hunting, that's the

1377
01:25:07,920 --> 01:25:08,519
Speaker 3: two we saw.

1378
01:25:08,680 --> 01:25:13,160
Speaker 1: And to show how this is so widespread across the country.

1379
01:25:13,840 --> 01:25:16,479
Speaker 1: The National Deer Association, they put out the white Tail

1380
01:25:16,560 --> 01:25:21,120
Speaker 1: Report every year and Kip Adams is the principal author

1381
01:25:21,479 --> 01:25:24,519
Speaker 1: of the white Tail Report. And just here in the

1382
01:25:24,640 --> 01:25:28,560
Speaker 1: last year or two, we are killing few you know,

1383
01:25:29,080 --> 01:25:32,280
Speaker 1: white tail hunters across the country are killing fewer yearlings

1384
01:25:32,439 --> 01:25:35,479
Speaker 1: than ever before, and the number of three and a

1385
01:25:35,520 --> 01:25:38,280
Speaker 1: half plus year old deer that are killed is greater

1386
01:25:38,479 --> 01:25:44,160
Speaker 1: than ever before. So just to show how that practice

1387
01:25:44,760 --> 01:25:49,120
Speaker 1: is being conducted broadly among deer hunters all over the country.

1388
01:25:50,280 --> 01:25:58,519
Speaker 3: Uh, one of your one of your colleagues, I'm sure

1389
01:25:58,560 --> 01:26:04,479
Speaker 3: you know, Mike Chamberlain. We had talked with Mike Chamberlain,

1390
01:26:04,560 --> 01:26:06,920
Speaker 3: who goes We've talked a lot about his Instagram page

1391
01:26:06,920 --> 01:26:13,400
Speaker 3: wild Turkey Dot. He's been on the show. He has

1392
01:26:13,520 --> 01:26:18,040
Speaker 3: expressed concerns about killing turkeys too early in the year.

1393
01:26:19,479 --> 01:26:23,240
Speaker 3: A friend of mine, Robert Abernathy, who was a turkey

1394
01:26:23,280 --> 01:26:30,799
Speaker 3: biologist for a long time, has expressed concerns that about

1395
01:26:31,160 --> 01:26:36,800
Speaker 3: states allowing harvest early in the year. And I don't

1396
01:26:36,800 --> 01:26:39,200
Speaker 3: want to put words in these guys' mouths, but basically

1397
01:26:41,479 --> 01:26:48,280
Speaker 3: there's this management idea that let turkeys get through nesting

1398
01:26:52,120 --> 01:26:54,280
Speaker 3: at which point or initiate whatever the hell it is,

1399
01:26:54,400 --> 01:26:55,280
Speaker 3: at which point.

1400
01:26:56,600 --> 01:26:59,920
Speaker 1: I would allow most of the reproduction to take place

1401
01:27:00,200 --> 01:27:04,640
Speaker 1: before you open the season on the males.

1402
01:27:04,400 --> 01:27:06,920
Speaker 3: And then whatever you that then the idea being whatever

1403
01:27:06,960 --> 01:27:10,120
Speaker 3: you've taken from hunters up front, tack it on to

1404
01:27:10,200 --> 01:27:14,680
Speaker 3: the end, meaning shoot turkeys all through May. Like like,

1405
01:27:14,920 --> 01:27:18,400
Speaker 3: for instance, you go to I was just in Wisconsin

1406
01:27:18,479 --> 01:27:21,280
Speaker 3: for the youth turkey season. Okay, so you have a

1407
01:27:21,320 --> 01:27:25,800
Speaker 3: two day youth season, then you have season A, B C,

1408
01:27:26,479 --> 01:27:32,000
Speaker 3: D and those are all limited one tag, and then

1409
01:27:32,040 --> 01:27:36,000
Speaker 3: you get into the end seasons, have at it. You

1410
01:27:36,160 --> 01:27:40,120
Speaker 3: kill turkey to day. So you can apply for years

1411
01:27:42,040 --> 01:27:45,559
Speaker 3: to try to get an a season tag and you're

1412
01:27:45,600 --> 01:27:48,360
Speaker 3: gonna get one thing, or you go to Wisconsin for

1413
01:27:48,439 --> 01:27:50,720
Speaker 3: those last two and you can just have at it

1414
01:27:51,439 --> 01:27:57,680
Speaker 3: every day. What's your take on what's your take from

1415
01:27:57,800 --> 01:28:00,599
Speaker 3: from the research you've done and whatever anecdotic things you've

1416
01:28:00,600 --> 01:28:04,360
Speaker 3: picked up on. Is it actually detrimental to the resource

1417
01:28:05,479 --> 01:28:08,880
Speaker 3: to be gun in turkeys? And the dates change around

1418
01:28:08,960 --> 01:28:11,920
Speaker 3: the country based on day length and latitude and all that,

1419
01:28:12,000 --> 01:28:14,840
Speaker 3: But like, what's your take on the idea that if

1420
01:28:14,880 --> 01:28:19,160
Speaker 3: you're killing turkeys early, you're doing a greater harm to

1421
01:28:19,280 --> 01:28:21,160
Speaker 3: the resource than if you're killing turkeys later.

1422
01:28:21,320 --> 01:28:25,000
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, for for decades turkey ball, I just have

1423
01:28:25,920 --> 01:28:32,640
Speaker 1: broadly pushed for opening turkey seasons once a majority of

1424
01:28:32,680 --> 01:28:37,360
Speaker 1: the reproduction has taken place. And certainly theoretically that could

1425
01:28:37,479 --> 01:28:44,920
Speaker 1: be an issue. For example, in Tennessee, nest initiation peaks

1426
01:28:45,439 --> 01:28:49,880
Speaker 1: on April the eleventh. That's what we've determined after six

1427
01:28:50,040 --> 01:28:55,759
Speaker 1: years of following round five hundred hens.

1428
01:28:55,920 --> 01:28:57,840
Speaker 3: And are you when you say initiation, I mean she

1429
01:28:58,040 --> 01:28:58,880
Speaker 3: lays the first egg.

1430
01:28:59,000 --> 01:29:03,920
Speaker 1: That's correct, she's initiating her nest. The peak of that

1431
01:29:04,400 --> 01:29:06,160
Speaker 1: is April eleventh in Tennessee.

1432
01:29:06,360 --> 01:29:08,400
Speaker 3: And then she's gonna just to walk people through this

1433
01:29:08,560 --> 01:29:13,080
Speaker 3: cycle that hen is gonna lay one egg a day, correct,

1434
01:29:13,360 --> 01:29:17,640
Speaker 3: for about twelve days, at which time she will then

1435
01:29:17,760 --> 01:29:20,840
Speaker 3: start incubating them and they'll hatch on the same day,

1436
01:29:21,040 --> 01:29:24,960
Speaker 3: even though they were laid perhaps ten days apart. That's

1437
01:29:25,040 --> 01:29:26,080
Speaker 3: eleven days apart.

1438
01:29:25,960 --> 01:29:29,400
Speaker 1: Now about about twenty eight days later, and there's another

1439
01:29:29,520 --> 01:29:32,280
Speaker 1: couple of days that is included in the lay in season.

1440
01:29:32,400 --> 01:29:36,280
Speaker 1: She might skip a day initially, And you're correct. The

1441
01:29:37,280 --> 01:29:41,240
Speaker 1: clutch sizes vary in some areas. It might only be

1442
01:29:41,360 --> 01:29:44,280
Speaker 1: eight or nine in some areas, you know, twelve or thirteen,

1443
01:29:44,880 --> 01:29:49,120
Speaker 1: and our study sites in Tennessee, we average ten eggs

1444
01:29:49,280 --> 01:29:52,439
Speaker 1: for the clutch size, and it varies a little bit,

1445
01:29:52,479 --> 01:29:53,400
Speaker 1: but that's the area.

1446
01:29:53,520 --> 01:29:58,880
Speaker 5: That clutch is just one. One tom fertilizes all those eggs.

1447
01:30:00,040 --> 01:30:04,439
Speaker 1: Good question. There are some data, and it's not much.

1448
01:30:05,320 --> 01:30:08,960
Speaker 1: There's at least one study with a fairly small sample

1449
01:30:09,040 --> 01:30:13,200
Speaker 1: size that does indicate more than one male can be

1450
01:30:13,320 --> 01:30:18,200
Speaker 1: involved in the clutch. In that study, I think it

1451
01:30:18,439 --> 01:30:25,080
Speaker 1: was about fifty percent of the eggs involved one male,

1452
01:30:25,360 --> 01:30:30,040
Speaker 1: or maybe seventy five percent of the nest involved one male.

1453
01:30:30,439 --> 01:30:33,280
Speaker 1: Roughly a quarter of them involved more than one male,

1454
01:30:33,880 --> 01:30:36,759
Speaker 1: and at least twenty five involved more than one female.

1455
01:30:37,280 --> 01:30:41,840
Speaker 1: And most times we figure what's called a dump nest

1456
01:30:42,439 --> 01:30:46,200
Speaker 1: and we see that, you know, fairly commonly that might

1457
01:30:46,360 --> 01:30:50,120
Speaker 1: have you know, eighteen or twenty some eggs in it,

1458
01:30:50,720 --> 01:30:53,760
Speaker 1: and a lot of times many of them will not

1459
01:30:54,600 --> 01:30:55,840
Speaker 1: hatch because they.

1460
01:30:55,840 --> 01:30:57,200
Speaker 3: Weren't all incubated.

1461
01:30:57,280 --> 01:31:01,720
Speaker 1: Equally, interestingly, we had a nest and Tennessee that had

1462
01:31:01,800 --> 01:31:05,519
Speaker 1: twenty three eggs, obviously a dump nest, and twenty two

1463
01:31:05,640 --> 01:31:06,320
Speaker 1: of them hatched.

1464
01:31:06,439 --> 01:31:09,400
Speaker 3: So a bunch of different females finding that spot and

1465
01:31:09,479 --> 01:31:10,120
Speaker 3: lean and egg.

1466
01:31:09,960 --> 01:31:13,000
Speaker 1: On it, right, and so, but the other thing is

1467
01:31:14,040 --> 01:31:16,320
Speaker 1: this dump nest in occurs and there might only be

1468
01:31:16,560 --> 01:31:22,240
Speaker 1: nine eggs in the clutch. So it's extremely interesting. I

1469
01:31:22,320 --> 01:31:27,840
Speaker 1: don't know just exactly how another hen finds another one's nest,

1470
01:31:28,000 --> 01:31:31,439
Speaker 1: if you know they're they're walking nearby or what have you.

1471
01:31:31,760 --> 01:31:35,120
Speaker 1: But anyway that that happens more frequently than what you

1472
01:31:35,120 --> 01:31:38,799
Speaker 1: would imagine, I find that very interesting. And so obviously

1473
01:31:38,960 --> 01:31:43,480
Speaker 1: that's increasing the genetic diversity when you have multiple females

1474
01:31:43,520 --> 01:31:47,960
Speaker 1: and multiple males that are involved in a single clutch.

1475
01:31:48,720 --> 01:31:50,519
Speaker 5: Like, how do they determine who sits on that nest?

1476
01:31:50,600 --> 01:31:52,759
Speaker 5: Is just the hand that starts?

1477
01:31:52,920 --> 01:31:56,840
Speaker 2: Oh, that initiates it, gotcha, that's not a bad deal

1478
01:31:56,880 --> 01:31:58,720
Speaker 2: for those other hens. I don't really want to raise

1479
01:31:58,800 --> 01:31:59,920
Speaker 2: these things this spring anyway.

1480
01:32:02,560 --> 01:32:05,839
Speaker 1: And so to get back to your question about the timing,

1481
01:32:08,680 --> 01:32:12,760
Speaker 1: certainly the timing of the hunting season can be problematic.

1482
01:32:13,000 --> 01:32:17,320
Speaker 1: That's definitely possible, and a number of states have have

1483
01:32:17,520 --> 01:32:22,760
Speaker 1: set back their season dates because they perceived that that

1484
01:32:22,920 --> 01:32:26,479
Speaker 1: could be a problem. And studies are being done right

1485
01:32:26,560 --> 01:32:29,599
Speaker 1: now to look at that, and hopefully some data will

1486
01:32:29,640 --> 01:32:34,560
Speaker 1: be provided soon that substantiates that this is or is

1487
01:32:34,640 --> 01:32:39,880
Speaker 1: not happening in various states. In Tennessee, though, I can

1488
01:32:40,000 --> 01:32:43,439
Speaker 1: tell you that it is not a problem at least

1489
01:32:43,520 --> 01:32:46,680
Speaker 1: with regard to when the season opens in early May.

1490
01:32:46,840 --> 01:32:49,680
Speaker 1: You know, I mentioned that we had experimental two week

1491
01:32:49,800 --> 01:32:52,280
Speaker 1: delay in three of the counties and in the two

1492
01:32:52,400 --> 01:32:56,080
Speaker 1: control counties there was no delay. Well in those two years,

1493
01:32:56,680 --> 01:33:00,599
Speaker 1: the season opened on April the second and a third,

1494
01:33:01,320 --> 01:33:06,000
Speaker 1: and following the treatment counties both pre and post delay,

1495
01:33:06,479 --> 01:33:10,320
Speaker 1: and the control counties both pre and post delay, we

1496
01:33:10,479 --> 01:33:14,680
Speaker 1: found no effect on any reproductive parameter, whether that be

1497
01:33:14,960 --> 01:33:20,559
Speaker 1: the percentage of hens that nest, the timing of nesting,

1498
01:33:21,360 --> 01:33:26,720
Speaker 1: the clutch size, the hatch ability, or pulse survival. They

1499
01:33:26,800 --> 01:33:30,880
Speaker 1: were exactly the same with regard now they would vary

1500
01:33:31,040 --> 01:33:34,200
Speaker 1: year to year, but they would vary the same way.

1501
01:33:35,200 --> 01:33:41,200
Speaker 1: So if, for example, nest success, that would be the

1502
01:33:41,320 --> 01:33:44,559
Speaker 1: percentage of nest in which at least one egg hatches

1503
01:33:45,080 --> 01:33:47,519
Speaker 1: went up a little bit in the control counties. It

1504
01:33:47,640 --> 01:33:49,840
Speaker 1: also went up a little bit in the treatment county.

1505
01:33:49,960 --> 01:33:54,360
Speaker 1: So everything trended exactly the same way. And the delay

1506
01:33:54,680 --> 01:33:57,840
Speaker 1: at least through two years, and this is a two

1507
01:33:57,920 --> 01:34:00,960
Speaker 1: week delay, This is not a five day delay. It's

1508
01:34:00,960 --> 01:34:03,800
Speaker 1: a two week delay, and there was no change in

1509
01:34:03,920 --> 01:34:08,000
Speaker 1: any reproductive parameter which was which was telling. So I'm

1510
01:34:08,080 --> 01:34:10,680
Speaker 1: not saying that is not occurring in other states. I

1511
01:34:11,000 --> 01:34:15,200
Speaker 1: haven't you know, collected data in spots that in Tennessee.

1512
01:34:15,439 --> 01:34:20,200
Speaker 3: No that that the dudes out hunting, that's not preventing

1513
01:34:21,160 --> 01:34:24,360
Speaker 3: these hens from being successful nesters, or these eggs getting

1514
01:34:24,880 --> 01:34:25,880
Speaker 3: fertilized or whatever.

1515
01:34:26,040 --> 01:34:28,200
Speaker 1: I do not believe that in any way, shape or form,

1516
01:34:29,439 --> 01:34:34,639
Speaker 1: that dudes o hunting are causing a problem. Look look

1517
01:34:34,680 --> 01:34:37,599
Speaker 1: at look at the harvest rate what it did from

1518
01:34:37,680 --> 01:34:41,800
Speaker 1: the nineteen eighties for example through the mid two thousands.

1519
01:34:41,840 --> 01:34:45,960
Speaker 1: I mean, it's going up exponentially in most states. And

1520
01:34:49,400 --> 01:34:54,360
Speaker 1: obviously hunters on the landscape did not cause a problem

1521
01:34:54,439 --> 01:34:57,800
Speaker 1: at that time. The turkey population was going up. There

1522
01:34:57,880 --> 01:35:00,479
Speaker 1: are more turkey hunters in some places now than there

1523
01:35:00,520 --> 01:35:06,280
Speaker 1: were in Tennessee. That number has increased, well, it increased

1524
01:35:06,320 --> 01:35:09,920
Speaker 1: about one thousand per year for a few years, and

1525
01:35:10,040 --> 01:35:13,600
Speaker 1: then of course twenty twenty happened with the problem with

1526
01:35:13,680 --> 01:35:17,719
Speaker 1: the virus and everything, and we went from like having

1527
01:35:17,960 --> 01:35:22,120
Speaker 1: ninety ninety two thousand hunters up to around one hundred

1528
01:35:22,120 --> 01:35:27,200
Speaker 1: and ten thousand hunters so that situation increased the number

1529
01:35:27,240 --> 01:35:28,040
Speaker 1: of hunters.

1530
01:35:28,640 --> 01:35:31,479
Speaker 3: In a lot of places. Has that dropped off now?

1531
01:35:32,360 --> 01:35:35,880
Speaker 1: I have not seen the data for twenty twenty one

1532
01:35:36,000 --> 01:35:39,439
Speaker 1: yet on the number of turkey hunters in the state,

1533
01:35:39,560 --> 01:35:41,880
Speaker 1: or at least the number of hunters who had a

1534
01:35:42,080 --> 01:35:46,200
Speaker 1: license that would enable them to turkey hunt. So to

1535
01:35:46,320 --> 01:35:52,200
Speaker 1: get back to the earlier point, we didn't have in Tennessee,

1536
01:35:52,680 --> 01:35:56,080
Speaker 1: the season opened on the Saturday closest to April first,

1537
01:35:56,560 --> 01:35:59,760
Speaker 1: which means some years the season can open on May

1538
01:36:00,000 --> 01:36:04,080
Speaker 1: twenty eighth. Well, during this experimental delay, we didn't have

1539
01:36:04,640 --> 01:36:08,000
Speaker 1: turkey season opening excuse me, on March twenty eighth, So

1540
01:36:08,120 --> 01:36:11,320
Speaker 1: we didn't have turkey season opening in March during the

1541
01:36:11,439 --> 01:36:16,040
Speaker 1: course of that experimental delay. So I would not propose

1542
01:36:16,560 --> 01:36:20,640
Speaker 1: Tennessee to go back to open the season on the

1543
01:36:20,760 --> 01:36:25,440
Speaker 1: Saturday closest to April first, when our peak nest initiation

1544
01:36:25,840 --> 01:36:30,599
Speaker 1: is April the eleventh. But I would feel comfortable if

1545
01:36:30,640 --> 01:36:34,439
Speaker 1: that season opened sometime during the first week of April,

1546
01:36:35,320 --> 01:36:40,759
Speaker 1: because that's when it happened during our experimental two week delay,

1547
01:36:40,920 --> 01:36:44,479
Speaker 1: and we found no issue surrounding that. And so if

1548
01:36:44,520 --> 01:36:48,120
Speaker 1: the season opened in Tennessee sometime during that first week,

1549
01:36:48,280 --> 01:36:50,679
Speaker 1: whether it's you know, you could say the first Saturday

1550
01:36:50,720 --> 01:36:53,439
Speaker 1: in April. That way, it would vary from April first

1551
01:36:53,520 --> 01:36:57,120
Speaker 1: to April the seventh, and that could be, you know,

1552
01:36:57,680 --> 01:37:01,800
Speaker 1: on average, about four days later than it was traditionally,

1553
01:37:02,320 --> 01:37:06,160
Speaker 1: and from the data that we've collected, opening at that

1554
01:37:06,360 --> 01:37:11,280
Speaker 1: time is not having a detrimental effect on reproductive production.

1555
01:37:11,720 --> 01:37:16,280
Speaker 1: But again that's not to address other states, because you know,

1556
01:37:16,680 --> 01:37:19,320
Speaker 1: of course the timing of nesting is going to vary

1557
01:37:19,439 --> 01:37:23,839
Speaker 1: from from place to place, and states have different opening

1558
01:37:24,000 --> 01:37:24,679
Speaker 1: season dates.

1559
01:37:24,720 --> 01:37:27,400
Speaker 3: Of course, how far apart are the counties that you're

1560
01:37:27,439 --> 01:37:31,840
Speaker 3: separating with the opening dates they're touching. I know you're

1561
01:37:31,880 --> 01:37:35,320
Speaker 3: interested in turkeys more than turkey hunters, but that has

1562
01:37:35,400 --> 01:37:39,240
Speaker 3: you've changed where people are like more intent now and

1563
01:37:39,360 --> 01:37:40,880
Speaker 3: doubling up on the double opener.

1564
01:37:42,120 --> 01:37:45,320
Speaker 1: I would be yes, And we have surveyed some of

1565
01:37:45,400 --> 01:37:50,960
Speaker 1: that and that that is happening some So in those

1566
01:37:51,080 --> 01:37:56,920
Speaker 1: experimental counties they opened two weeks later. Well, some hunters

1567
01:37:57,400 --> 01:38:00,920
Speaker 1: in those counties, of course, they would go to other

1568
01:38:01,080 --> 01:38:04,439
Speaker 1: counties where they could hunt during that initial season, but

1569
01:38:04,520 --> 01:38:07,280
Speaker 1: that only happened during those two years. Now, of course

1570
01:38:07,320 --> 01:38:11,679
Speaker 1: it's a state wide delay. So the statewide. The season

1571
01:38:11,840 --> 01:38:17,880
Speaker 1: as of this season opens on April fifteenth, and so

1572
01:38:18,560 --> 01:38:20,720
Speaker 1: you can't do that in Tennessee now go from one

1573
01:38:20,760 --> 01:38:24,759
Speaker 1: place to another. But it does impact out of state hunters.

1574
01:38:26,760 --> 01:38:29,960
Speaker 1: I spoke with the executive director the other day and

1575
01:38:30,120 --> 01:38:34,080
Speaker 1: he mentioned how revenues from out of state hunters were

1576
01:38:34,200 --> 01:38:38,280
Speaker 1: down as of yet, but I imagine that will pick

1577
01:38:38,400 --> 01:38:41,760
Speaker 1: back up because now the Tennessee season will go through

1578
01:38:42,000 --> 01:38:45,400
Speaker 1: I think it's May the twenty eighth. I mean, goodnight,

1579
01:38:45,520 --> 01:38:48,160
Speaker 1: that's what you said, Jason. The turkey season is in

1580
01:38:48,400 --> 01:38:51,960
Speaker 1: Washington State April fifteenth through the end of May, so

1581
01:38:52,760 --> 01:38:56,760
Speaker 1: you better believe there'll be some hunters from Alabama and Mississippi,

1582
01:38:57,200 --> 01:39:00,760
Speaker 1: Georgia coming to Tennessee during the the last half of

1583
01:39:00,760 --> 01:39:01,280
Speaker 1: them night.

1584
01:39:01,400 --> 01:39:04,320
Speaker 3: But you're almost ready to start shooting off fireworks by then, man,

1585
01:39:05,560 --> 01:39:08,479
Speaker 3: the end of May. One time someone said this to me,

1586
01:39:08,479 --> 01:39:10,519
Speaker 3: and I've quoted it, and I worry that it's not

1587
01:39:10,840 --> 01:39:15,559
Speaker 3: that it's not accurate. They were saying, like, as here's

1588
01:39:15,560 --> 01:39:17,719
Speaker 3: a picture way to picture turkeys. As a rule of thumb,

1589
01:39:18,960 --> 01:39:23,120
Speaker 3: they're saying, seventy five percent of the eggs that hit

1590
01:39:23,200 --> 01:39:30,240
Speaker 3: the ground won't hatch. Of those that hatch, seventy five

1591
01:39:30,280 --> 01:39:34,120
Speaker 3: percent won't see their first birthday. Of those that do

1592
01:39:34,240 --> 01:39:37,400
Speaker 3: see their first birthday, seventy five percent won't see their

1593
01:39:37,439 --> 01:39:43,080
Speaker 3: second birthday. How close to accurate is that according to

1594
01:39:43,120 --> 01:39:45,799
Speaker 3: your understanding, I would say that is accurate.

1595
01:39:45,880 --> 01:39:47,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, but the other night you.

1596
01:39:47,880 --> 01:39:50,679
Speaker 3: Were talking about the other night you were talking about

1597
01:39:51,240 --> 01:39:54,800
Speaker 3: the possibility, even though it's hard to tell, you were

1598
01:39:54,840 --> 01:39:57,760
Speaker 3: saying that there can be turkeys out there that are

1599
01:39:57,880 --> 01:40:03,960
Speaker 3: four or five years old with males. So for a

1600
01:40:04,080 --> 01:40:07,160
Speaker 3: male to get that edge, he's defying, he is defying

1601
01:40:07,400 --> 01:40:07,920
Speaker 3: the odds.

1602
01:40:09,479 --> 01:40:13,960
Speaker 1: Yes, that is absolutely correct anywhere. But you're not going

1603
01:40:14,040 --> 01:40:16,320
Speaker 1: to see turkeys that are four or five years old

1604
01:40:16,720 --> 01:40:21,920
Speaker 1: on these heavily hunted areas. And it can happen, it

1605
01:40:22,040 --> 01:40:25,880
Speaker 1: does happen, but they are going to be exceptionally few.

1606
01:40:26,160 --> 01:40:31,360
Speaker 1: God on areas that are either hunted lightly or the

1607
01:40:31,960 --> 01:40:37,680
Speaker 1: hunting pressure is well managed, or on unhunted properties. Absolutely

1608
01:40:37,760 --> 01:40:41,200
Speaker 1: you'll see turkeys that are four or five, six, even

1609
01:40:41,479 --> 01:40:47,479
Speaker 1: eight years old males males were band recoveries or tag birds.

1610
01:40:47,560 --> 01:40:50,160
Speaker 1: Has indicated, you know, you know the exact age.

1611
01:40:50,000 --> 01:40:52,040
Speaker 3: What the hell kind of spirit they got it? Eight years?

1612
01:40:52,080 --> 01:40:53,280
Speaker 3: How long does that can grow.

1613
01:40:54,280 --> 01:41:00,320
Speaker 1: About the same as a four year old. Again, ever,

1614
01:41:00,439 --> 01:41:04,479
Speaker 1: you're going to see, for example, Eastern turkeys with spurs

1615
01:41:05,040 --> 01:41:07,400
Speaker 1: longer than an inch and a half, usually they're worn

1616
01:41:07,920 --> 01:41:11,439
Speaker 1: before then. And you know, you can take it with

1617
01:41:11,520 --> 01:41:13,760
Speaker 1: a grain of salt the length of the spur and

1618
01:41:13,840 --> 01:41:17,280
Speaker 1: the age. But that's not an accurate way to age

1619
01:41:17,360 --> 01:41:19,439
Speaker 1: the bird. I would not you know, somebody say, oh,

1620
01:41:19,800 --> 01:41:21,560
Speaker 1: that this spur is an inch and and eight so

1621
01:41:21,680 --> 01:41:24,760
Speaker 1: it's three years old. Now you only God knows how

1622
01:41:24,840 --> 01:41:27,320
Speaker 1: old that bird is, but you know it's not a jake.

1623
01:41:28,160 --> 01:41:30,680
Speaker 1: It's very unlikely to be a two year old. But

1624
01:41:31,160 --> 01:41:32,080
Speaker 1: you just you don't know.

1625
01:41:32,360 --> 01:41:33,639
Speaker 3: I wish you, I wish you did.

1626
01:41:34,040 --> 01:41:36,840
Speaker 1: I wish they had some you know, mark on their back,

1627
01:41:36,920 --> 01:41:39,680
Speaker 1: you know, two white feathers if if it's a two

1628
01:41:39,760 --> 01:41:41,680
Speaker 1: year old, and three if it's three or whatever, and

1629
01:41:41,760 --> 01:41:43,960
Speaker 1: you could tell the age very easily.

1630
01:41:44,240 --> 01:41:45,479
Speaker 3: Uh I if so.

1631
01:41:46,080 --> 01:41:50,080
Speaker 1: I think turkey hunters would manage the populations on the

1632
01:41:50,200 --> 01:41:52,160
Speaker 1: lands they hunt very very differently.

1633
01:41:52,360 --> 01:41:55,200
Speaker 3: Oh if they could tell absolutely, just like with deer,

1634
01:41:55,240 --> 01:41:59,360
Speaker 3: what that that it could happen and you could create it.

1635
01:42:00,680 --> 01:42:04,320
Speaker 1: On this property that we're on right now with a

1636
01:42:04,479 --> 01:42:08,000
Speaker 1: landowner that we have Randy, who's a tremendous guy and

1637
01:42:08,080 --> 01:42:11,800
Speaker 1: tremendous to allow us to come out here and enjoy

1638
01:42:11,920 --> 01:42:15,000
Speaker 1: the property with him. If there was a way to

1639
01:42:15,200 --> 01:42:19,160
Speaker 1: age turkeys, you know in Randy and you see in

1640
01:42:19,240 --> 01:42:21,760
Speaker 1: the deer that are around on these walls, I don't

1641
01:42:21,760 --> 01:42:24,280
Speaker 1: see any FOURK horns on the wall round there. I

1642
01:42:24,320 --> 01:42:26,680
Speaker 1: mean we're looking at one hundred and sixty to two

1643
01:42:26,800 --> 01:42:31,479
Speaker 1: hundred inch white tails. They don't grow that large at

1644
01:42:31,520 --> 01:42:32,719
Speaker 1: two or three years old.

1645
01:42:32,880 --> 01:42:33,040
Speaker 3: Now.

1646
01:42:33,080 --> 01:42:35,439
Speaker 1: I know there have been some six three year olds

1647
01:42:35,479 --> 01:42:37,640
Speaker 1: that have been one hundred and sixty inches. But the

1648
01:42:37,720 --> 01:42:41,840
Speaker 1: point is he's allowing young bucks to walk so he

1649
01:42:41,960 --> 01:42:45,280
Speaker 1: can shoot them at five to seven years old because

1650
01:42:45,439 --> 01:42:48,680
Speaker 1: of their size. If you could age turkeys in the

1651
01:42:48,800 --> 01:42:52,280
Speaker 1: same way, they would be managed very differently. And I

1652
01:42:52,439 --> 01:42:55,760
Speaker 1: think a lot of that gets to the bag limit.

1653
01:42:56,320 --> 01:43:00,960
Speaker 1: I think the bag limit is a very important regulation.

1654
01:43:01,720 --> 01:43:06,479
Speaker 1: You know, for years in Tennessee there was a four

1655
01:43:06,640 --> 01:43:10,040
Speaker 1: bird statewide bag limit, but actually you could kill a

1656
01:43:10,080 --> 01:43:13,400
Speaker 1: lot more than that if you killed a bird on

1657
01:43:13,560 --> 01:43:17,200
Speaker 1: some federal lands land between the Lakes or Fort Campbell

1658
01:43:17,240 --> 01:43:19,640
Speaker 1: for examples of freebie b I didn't count towards your

1659
01:43:19,720 --> 01:43:24,240
Speaker 1: state bag limit, and then and this this drives me nuts.

1660
01:43:24,760 --> 01:43:30,080
Speaker 1: There were like fifteen plus WMA's across the state for

1661
01:43:30,200 --> 01:43:32,320
Speaker 1: which if you killed a turkey on it, it was free,

1662
01:43:32,680 --> 01:43:38,280
Speaker 1: a bonus gobbler. That's ridiculous. Any bird killed should go

1663
01:43:38,439 --> 01:43:40,960
Speaker 1: into the bag limit. And so in Tennessee for years

1664
01:43:41,240 --> 01:43:44,000
Speaker 1: you could and that didn't even count you fall birds.

1665
01:43:44,600 --> 01:43:48,080
Speaker 1: So you could easily kill well not easily, but you

1666
01:43:48,240 --> 01:43:51,600
Speaker 1: could kill eight, ten or more birds a year. But

1667
01:43:52,200 --> 01:43:54,840
Speaker 1: it really wasn't that big of a problem because very

1668
01:43:55,040 --> 01:44:00,320
Speaker 1: very few people did that. But these large bagline it's

1669
01:44:00,400 --> 01:44:04,320
Speaker 1: now you're seeing them back off dramatically on the bag limits,

1670
01:44:04,360 --> 01:44:08,280
Speaker 1: and in Tennessee it's it's down to two now. And

1671
01:44:08,640 --> 01:44:12,439
Speaker 1: I have been one of those who all into turkey

1672
01:44:12,520 --> 01:44:15,880
Speaker 1: hunting and I killed as many as I could because

1673
01:44:15,920 --> 01:44:19,200
Speaker 1: I absolutely love it going to you know, five, six,

1674
01:44:19,360 --> 01:44:24,840
Speaker 1: seven states every year to hunt. But you know, a

1675
01:44:24,960 --> 01:44:29,240
Speaker 1: bag limit of four that's too many in my opinion

1676
01:44:29,760 --> 01:44:34,320
Speaker 1: that that's that's too many. There was some interesting data

1677
01:44:34,360 --> 01:44:34,879
Speaker 1: in Tennessee.

1678
01:44:36,280 --> 01:44:37,920
Speaker 3: I want to live. I want to interrupt you for

1679
01:44:37,920 --> 01:44:41,080
Speaker 3: one second. Early on I was tide about hous gonna

1680
01:44:41,080 --> 01:44:44,080
Speaker 3: explain why this matters, and I want to back up

1681
01:44:44,080 --> 01:44:46,280
Speaker 3: for a minute, because I've failed to really do that

1682
01:44:46,360 --> 01:44:51,439
Speaker 3: effectively in talking to listeners about why why we're debating

1683
01:44:51,479 --> 01:44:54,479
Speaker 3: some of these issues, and I want to do like

1684
01:44:54,560 --> 01:44:59,280
Speaker 3: a quick American history through the wild Turkey. Okay, uh,

1685
01:45:00,680 --> 01:45:04,840
Speaker 3: I'm gonna start with my favorite pieces. The Pilgrims. Almost

1686
01:45:04,880 --> 01:45:08,599
Speaker 3: certainly we're not eating turkey at the first Thanksgiving. They

1687
01:45:08,640 --> 01:45:12,559
Speaker 3: had to catch all word turkey, which meant big edible bird,

1688
01:45:14,400 --> 01:45:18,920
Speaker 3: probably a goose. They're probably eating geese. There's similar things

1689
01:45:19,439 --> 01:45:22,720
Speaker 3: we use. The term. You'll hear people use the term

1690
01:45:22,760 --> 01:45:26,479
Speaker 3: it's a game bird, and that's a catch all I've

1691
01:45:26,560 --> 01:45:30,200
Speaker 3: heard people use in Spanish. I think it was in

1692
01:45:30,200 --> 01:45:32,080
Speaker 3: the Spanish speaking areas. I've heard people use a word

1693
01:45:32,200 --> 01:45:36,040
Speaker 3: like Poe's in South America. It's like a big bird,

1694
01:45:36,080 --> 01:45:38,720
Speaker 3: it's good to eat. So you see when running along

1695
01:45:39,680 --> 01:45:43,280
Speaker 3: poies what one oh curs ow, but meaning a big

1696
01:45:43,320 --> 01:45:46,880
Speaker 3: bird good to eat. They threw that word around. They

1697
01:45:46,960 --> 01:45:52,240
Speaker 3: probably ate geese. However, if they also late dear yep,

1698
01:45:52,680 --> 01:45:55,400
Speaker 3: they definitely there's no doubt that the first thanks even

1699
01:45:55,600 --> 01:45:57,799
Speaker 3: ate deer. And so when I when we have Thanksgiving

1700
01:45:57,800 --> 01:45:59,479
Speaker 3: at the Bronella household, we always have deer mee I

1701
01:45:59,479 --> 01:46:05,400
Speaker 3: don't care about. So there are accounts from the long

1702
01:46:05,479 --> 01:46:12,559
Speaker 3: Hunters and the first Western Frontier of them describing areas

1703
01:46:12,600 --> 01:46:16,839
Speaker 3: where it seemed like this. It seemed that the forest

1704
01:46:16,960 --> 01:46:22,000
Speaker 3: floor was literally moving with turkeys. So at times and

1705
01:46:22,080 --> 01:46:26,240
Speaker 3: places there were like outstanding numbers of turkeys. By the

1706
01:46:26,320 --> 01:46:34,639
Speaker 3: early nineteen hundreds, we had really really depleted turkeys everywhere

1707
01:46:35,160 --> 01:46:38,000
Speaker 3: of the states. I can't remember what it is. I

1708
01:46:38,040 --> 01:46:43,320
Speaker 3: think that maybe I don't know what it was. At

1709
01:46:43,360 --> 01:46:48,599
Speaker 3: the time of European contact, we probably had wild turkeys

1710
01:46:48,640 --> 01:46:56,680
Speaker 3: in thirty four states. Maybe we had we had. By

1711
01:46:56,720 --> 01:46:59,200
Speaker 3: the early nineteen hundreds, they had been removed from over

1712
01:46:59,240 --> 01:47:03,200
Speaker 3: a dozen of those states all together. There were only

1713
01:47:03,280 --> 01:47:06,679
Speaker 3: a few little pockets. I think South Carolina maybe always

1714
01:47:06,760 --> 01:47:10,600
Speaker 3: hung out to some form of a turkey season, but

1715
01:47:10,720 --> 01:47:15,800
Speaker 3: most places turkey hunting ended. And then they started into

1716
01:47:16,880 --> 01:47:19,519
Speaker 3: through a lot of failed efforts and trying to get

1717
01:47:19,560 --> 01:47:23,800
Speaker 3: it right, they started to reintroduce turkeys. They initially tried

1718
01:47:23,840 --> 01:47:27,920
Speaker 3: to reintroduce turkeys by turning out pen raised birds, and

1719
01:47:28,000 --> 01:47:31,920
Speaker 3: it was a disaster. It didn't work. Then someone hit

1720
01:47:32,080 --> 01:47:38,640
Speaker 3: on the idea of capturing wild bread birds, and so

1721
01:47:38,800 --> 01:47:42,360
Speaker 3: they went to those little pockets like the deepest swamps,

1722
01:47:42,479 --> 01:47:46,719
Speaker 3: the worst mountains in the southeast, and they started catching

1723
01:47:46,760 --> 01:47:52,439
Speaker 3: turkeys and turning them out, and that those efforts really

1724
01:47:54,479 --> 01:47:58,360
Speaker 3: started to gain ground in the seventies and they pushed

1725
01:47:58,439 --> 01:48:01,200
Speaker 3: all the way up into the nine. So where I

1726
01:48:01,320 --> 01:48:04,439
Speaker 3: grew up, there weren't turkeys when I was a little kid.

1727
01:48:04,800 --> 01:48:07,400
Speaker 3: By the mid nineties there were turkeys because they had

1728
01:48:07,439 --> 01:48:11,320
Speaker 3: been reintroduced by and National Will Turkey Federation in conjunction

1729
01:48:11,439 --> 01:48:19,200
Speaker 3: with state agencies. And then they exploded and sore where

1730
01:48:19,360 --> 01:48:23,560
Speaker 3: you live. If you're a listener, where you live, you

1731
01:48:24,240 --> 01:48:28,320
Speaker 3: are probably sitting at some part of this like crazy,

1732
01:48:28,640 --> 01:48:30,840
Speaker 3: is it fair to call the bell curve? You're sitting

1733
01:48:30,880 --> 01:48:35,600
Speaker 3: at some part of this curve. You're probably at a

1734
01:48:35,760 --> 01:48:38,880
Speaker 3: part of the curve where you're you're not at the

1735
01:48:38,960 --> 01:48:43,120
Speaker 3: climb anymore. You probably are at the crest or you're

1736
01:48:43,240 --> 01:48:48,120
Speaker 3: on the falling edge of the crest of the saturation. Chris, Yeah,

1737
01:48:48,280 --> 01:48:50,519
Speaker 3: because they came in and it was like, like, admit,

1738
01:48:50,560 --> 01:48:52,360
Speaker 3: where I grew up, it happened kind of right when

1739
01:48:52,360 --> 01:48:54,160
Speaker 3: I moved out west, but all of a sudden it

1740
01:48:54,240 --> 01:48:56,800
Speaker 3: was like you could draw a turkey tag here and there,

1741
01:48:57,400 --> 01:49:01,200
Speaker 3: and then it was everybody was killing turkeys every year.

1742
01:49:01,240 --> 01:49:05,280
Speaker 3: My dad was just killing turkey every year, and it exploded,

1743
01:49:05,320 --> 01:49:07,000
Speaker 3: and I think people thought that it would always be

1744
01:49:07,160 --> 01:49:10,200
Speaker 3: that way, and it was like the turkey heyday, right,

1745
01:49:10,760 --> 01:49:13,880
Speaker 3: And then now you're having these these areas where we're

1746
01:49:13,920 --> 01:49:17,599
Speaker 3: coming out of it and it's dropping off, and people

1747
01:49:17,680 --> 01:49:23,040
Speaker 3: are people who love turkeys are wondering where's the where's

1748
01:49:23,120 --> 01:49:27,960
Speaker 3: the bottom, Like, where's the actual line gonna sit? So

1749
01:49:28,160 --> 01:49:31,759
Speaker 3: when I've on the show raised questions about fall turkey seasons,

1750
01:49:31,800 --> 01:49:34,920
Speaker 3: about being able to kill a turkey every day, being

1751
01:49:34,960 --> 01:49:39,240
Speaker 3: able to kill hens, it's not that it's like, it's

1752
01:49:39,320 --> 01:49:42,000
Speaker 3: not that I'm against I'm not against shooting hen turkeys.

1753
01:49:42,040 --> 01:49:44,840
Speaker 3: People like, well, you killed Doe dear, why it's okay

1754
01:49:44,920 --> 01:49:48,320
Speaker 3: to shoot hen turkeys. I'm not talking like a morality thing.

1755
01:49:49,040 --> 01:49:51,680
Speaker 3: It's not a morality thing in my view. It's like,

1756
01:49:53,920 --> 01:49:57,080
Speaker 3: as we go through this big experiment of turkey reintroduction

1757
01:49:57,479 --> 01:50:00,200
Speaker 3: and in certain areas in the northwestern US and introduce auction,

1758
01:50:00,280 --> 01:50:04,160
Speaker 3: they weren't there before, but they're there now, what is

1759
01:50:04,360 --> 01:50:07,439
Speaker 3: gonna be or is there gonna be a are we

1760
01:50:07,520 --> 01:50:11,640
Speaker 3: going to achieve a normal where turkey hunting is a

1761
01:50:11,880 --> 01:50:16,120
Speaker 3: normal part of our lives for decades to come, or

1762
01:50:16,520 --> 01:50:18,840
Speaker 3: will we look back fifty years from now at this

1763
01:50:19,000 --> 01:50:24,000
Speaker 3: kind of weird thing that happened where we had all

1764
01:50:24,040 --> 01:50:26,679
Speaker 3: these turkeys and then we're right back where we started

1765
01:50:26,800 --> 01:50:30,679
Speaker 3: because of various concerns. So when I say, like, why

1766
01:50:30,800 --> 01:50:33,880
Speaker 3: this matters, is there's no normal.

1767
01:50:43,400 --> 01:50:46,000
Speaker 1: To answer your question, No, I don't believe that will happen.

1768
01:50:46,160 --> 01:50:50,800
Speaker 1: I think states are making adjustments right now, especially with

1769
01:50:50,920 --> 01:50:54,559
Speaker 1: all the turkey studies that are going on, and we're

1770
01:50:54,680 --> 01:51:00,400
Speaker 1: learning tremendous amounts about all kinds of things that be

1771
01:51:01,479 --> 01:51:07,439
Speaker 1: seasons or bag limits or predators, disease, et cetera. You know,

1772
01:51:07,520 --> 01:51:11,960
Speaker 1: you mentioned the turkey population is going up, and I

1773
01:51:12,120 --> 01:51:14,800
Speaker 1: mentioned that about the harvest from the eighties to the

1774
01:51:14,880 --> 01:51:17,880
Speaker 1: mid two thousands or whatever. And so when you look

1775
01:51:17,920 --> 01:51:20,880
Speaker 1: at harvest rates or as a proxy, you know, the

1776
01:51:21,320 --> 01:51:24,519
Speaker 1: population increase. How long can it do this? You know,

1777
01:51:24,720 --> 01:51:27,720
Speaker 1: at essentially a forty five degree angle? How long?

1778
01:51:28,120 --> 01:51:28,320
Speaker 3: Yeah?

1779
01:51:28,600 --> 01:51:33,000
Speaker 1: Not infinitely, No, And so we have reached infinity right now.

1780
01:51:33,760 --> 01:51:39,200
Speaker 1: And I believe that in many areas it reached the

1781
01:51:39,320 --> 01:51:43,959
Speaker 1: point where the area could not support any more turkeys

1782
01:51:44,600 --> 01:51:48,840
Speaker 1: than what it has because of various factors, and so

1783
01:51:49,000 --> 01:51:51,679
Speaker 1: then it begins to drop off, and then it begins

1784
01:51:51,880 --> 01:51:56,000
Speaker 1: to fluctuate. Now, if the harvest pressure remains the same

1785
01:51:56,120 --> 01:51:59,200
Speaker 1: as it's going down and the amount of habitat is

1786
01:52:00,120 --> 01:52:04,519
Speaker 1: deteriorated or reduced, then you're not going to get back

1787
01:52:04,600 --> 01:52:09,360
Speaker 1: up to some historic high. And I've brought this out

1788
01:52:09,920 --> 01:52:15,360
Speaker 1: with different folks. Think about what the landscape was twenty

1789
01:52:15,479 --> 01:52:19,680
Speaker 1: years ago. And I keep going back to Tennessee, in

1790
01:52:19,760 --> 01:52:22,880
Speaker 1: that area south of Nashville and south Middle Tennessee that

1791
01:52:23,040 --> 01:52:25,439
Speaker 1: had some of the highest turkey populations, if not the

1792
01:52:25,520 --> 01:52:30,439
Speaker 1: highest turkey population of anywhere in the country. In the

1793
01:52:30,560 --> 01:52:33,639
Speaker 1: late nineties early two thousands, you could see a winter

1794
01:52:33,720 --> 01:52:38,320
Speaker 1: flock of one thousand birds. That's like unbelievable. So how

1795
01:52:38,400 --> 01:52:40,720
Speaker 1: long is that sustainable. It's not going to be that

1796
01:52:40,800 --> 01:52:44,400
Speaker 1: sustainable for that long. We have more roads, we have

1797
01:52:44,560 --> 01:52:49,679
Speaker 1: more buildings, we have more infrastructure from humans. So many

1798
01:52:49,800 --> 01:52:53,799
Speaker 1: properties are quote lost with regard to it being turkey

1799
01:52:53,840 --> 01:52:57,800
Speaker 1: habitat because they're subdivisions. And so the amount of land

1800
01:52:58,040 --> 01:53:02,120
Speaker 1: that turkeys have to live on today in many areas

1801
01:53:02,560 --> 01:53:06,720
Speaker 1: is considerably less than it was twenty or thirty years ago.

1802
01:53:07,240 --> 01:53:11,760
Speaker 1: And so we had this steep incline of the population.

1803
01:53:12,720 --> 01:53:15,559
Speaker 1: It reaches the point where that cannot be sustained anymore,

1804
01:53:15,880 --> 01:53:18,880
Speaker 1: then it drops, and then it's going to fluctuate. And

1805
01:53:19,320 --> 01:53:24,120
Speaker 1: I think our change in regulations can have a strong impact,

1806
01:53:24,240 --> 01:53:28,680
Speaker 1: of course on leveling that out into what you know,

1807
01:53:28,840 --> 01:53:33,959
Speaker 1: you call the new norm. But over time, the human population,

1808
01:53:34,080 --> 01:53:36,879
Speaker 1: at least in the foreseeable future, is going to continue

1809
01:53:36,880 --> 01:53:40,800
Speaker 1: to do this, go up and up, and so conserving

1810
01:53:41,000 --> 01:53:45,080
Speaker 1: our lands is hugely important, as it always has been.

1811
01:53:45,720 --> 01:53:50,599
Speaker 1: But that can't be discounted when you think about how

1812
01:53:50,640 --> 01:53:55,040
Speaker 1: many turkeys were and are or will be killed in

1813
01:53:55,160 --> 01:53:59,439
Speaker 1: a particular county, for example, we can't expect to go

1814
01:53:59,640 --> 01:54:02,559
Speaker 1: back to historic highs in all areas.

1815
01:54:03,880 --> 01:54:07,599
Speaker 3: When you when you are talking to someone to get

1816
01:54:07,640 --> 01:54:12,880
Speaker 3: into your extension work, let's say a landowner, you know,

1817
01:54:13,680 --> 01:54:18,120
Speaker 3: let's say someone's got forty acres of glenn and they're like,

1818
01:54:18,200 --> 01:54:21,040
Speaker 3: I want to make it better for wildlife, just in

1819
01:54:21,080 --> 01:54:24,880
Speaker 3: a very general sense, wildlife being like, whatever the hell

1820
01:54:25,120 --> 01:54:25,760
Speaker 3: is available?

1821
01:54:26,720 --> 01:54:27,439
Speaker 5: What what are the.

1822
01:54:31,120 --> 01:54:32,640
Speaker 3: What are the top suggestions you have?

1823
01:54:33,440 --> 01:54:36,360
Speaker 1: Well, the the number one thing is you've got to

1824
01:54:36,480 --> 01:54:42,440
Speaker 1: define wildlife, you know, are you talking about chickadease? Horned owls,

1825
01:54:42,680 --> 01:54:45,240
Speaker 1: copperhead snakes, deer and what what what is it that

1826
01:54:45,280 --> 01:54:48,200
Speaker 1: you're talking about? So the landowner has to identify and

1827
01:54:48,480 --> 01:54:51,240
Speaker 1: that's very common. I want to make it better for wildlife.

1828
01:54:51,280 --> 01:54:56,640
Speaker 1: What okay, I'll say this, all okay, and all native identify.

1829
01:54:56,720 --> 01:54:58,680
Speaker 1: So I get here's my here's my thing. I got

1830
01:54:58,760 --> 01:54:59,440
Speaker 1: forty acres.

1831
01:55:00,280 --> 01:55:02,560
Speaker 3: I'm like, I just want to make as good as

1832
01:55:02,600 --> 01:55:05,840
Speaker 3: I can for all native wildlife, whatever assemblage of native

1833
01:55:05,880 --> 01:55:08,600
Speaker 3: wildlife I could hope to attract.

1834
01:55:10,040 --> 01:55:15,560
Speaker 1: Well, you're going to help a diversity of wildlife by

1835
01:55:15,720 --> 01:55:19,840
Speaker 1: having diverse conditions on the property, But that's not going

1836
01:55:19,920 --> 01:55:22,600
Speaker 1: to help all species. You know, if you're an Eastern

1837
01:55:22,680 --> 01:55:25,480
Speaker 1: metal arc, you will never hang out in the woods.

1838
01:55:25,760 --> 01:55:29,120
Speaker 1: You see what I'm saying. And so there's no such

1839
01:55:29,200 --> 01:55:33,040
Speaker 1: thing as managing appropriately for everything. You've got to choose

1840
01:55:33,200 --> 01:55:38,200
Speaker 1: something because each species have certain requirements that have to

1841
01:55:38,280 --> 01:55:41,480
Speaker 1: be met, and they are very different among some species.

1842
01:55:41,840 --> 01:55:44,320
Speaker 1: And so that's why you know, and you know, like

1843
01:55:44,520 --> 01:55:47,839
Speaker 1: on two ends of the spectrum, think of an Eastern

1844
01:55:47,960 --> 01:55:52,880
Speaker 1: gray squirrel or an affiliated woodpecker versus a grasshopper sparra.

1845
01:55:53,000 --> 01:55:55,120
Speaker 1: You know that they will never be found in the

1846
01:55:55,200 --> 01:55:59,520
Speaker 1: same place. One requires forest at least wooded areas woodlands

1847
01:55:59,560 --> 01:56:04,080
Speaker 1: and as well, and the other one requires not just grassland,

1848
01:56:04,360 --> 01:56:07,640
Speaker 1: but vast amounts of grassland. And so there are different

1849
01:56:07,800 --> 01:56:11,880
Speaker 1: area requirements by different species. You know, some species, if

1850
01:56:11,920 --> 01:56:16,240
Speaker 1: you have the perfect conditions on ten acres, will never

1851
01:56:16,360 --> 01:56:21,040
Speaker 1: be found there because they require a much larger footprint

1852
01:56:21,160 --> 01:56:24,480
Speaker 1: than that. And northern bob White is a great example.

1853
01:56:25,440 --> 01:56:28,800
Speaker 1: So frustrating because so many landowners would like to manage

1854
01:56:28,840 --> 01:56:32,560
Speaker 1: for quail, but they only have seventy acres, and around

1855
01:56:32,600 --> 01:56:37,920
Speaker 1: the seventy acres is non habitat for bob white, and

1856
01:56:38,800 --> 01:56:40,320
Speaker 1: you know, you just got to tell them, Look, you

1857
01:56:40,400 --> 01:56:44,480
Speaker 1: can make your place absolutely perfect for quail, but you're

1858
01:56:44,600 --> 01:56:47,360
Speaker 1: never going to see a population response because of what's

1859
01:56:47,400 --> 01:56:50,320
Speaker 1: going on around you. And so with regard to your

1860
01:56:50,400 --> 01:56:54,000
Speaker 1: question about improving it, if they then identify the species

1861
01:56:54,320 --> 01:56:58,320
Speaker 1: and we kind of stick to turkeys, then you've got

1862
01:56:58,400 --> 01:57:01,440
Speaker 1: to meet their habitat requirements, and so you have to

1863
01:57:01,560 --> 01:57:07,839
Speaker 1: have or ideally you would have good cover for nesting,

1864
01:57:08,040 --> 01:57:10,840
Speaker 1: you would have good cover for brooding. Obviously, you would

1865
01:57:10,880 --> 01:57:14,560
Speaker 1: have roosting areas, You would have areas that provide good

1866
01:57:14,680 --> 01:57:18,600
Speaker 1: foraging during the summertime as well as during the fall

1867
01:57:18,720 --> 01:57:22,000
Speaker 1: and winter, and so you've got to meet their food

1868
01:57:22,240 --> 01:57:28,040
Speaker 1: and cover and water requirements as their requirements change throughout

1869
01:57:28,080 --> 01:57:28,440
Speaker 1: the year.

1870
01:57:28,640 --> 01:57:31,280
Speaker 3: What's the difference in nesting and brooding territory.

1871
01:57:32,440 --> 01:57:38,720
Speaker 1: Well, the cover that generally is selected by turkeys for

1872
01:57:38,920 --> 01:57:45,640
Speaker 1: nesting is going to be relatively dense. The visibility is

1873
01:57:45,720 --> 01:57:50,840
Speaker 1: not going to be that far. For example, one interesting

1874
01:57:50,960 --> 01:57:53,680
Speaker 1: thing that we found in the Tennessee study is that

1875
01:57:54,680 --> 01:57:58,360
Speaker 1: just less than fifty percent of the nest I think

1876
01:57:58,400 --> 01:58:03,040
Speaker 1: it's forty six percent of the nest occur in either

1877
01:58:03,720 --> 01:58:06,959
Speaker 1: what we call early succession, you know, like overgrown fields

1878
01:58:07,800 --> 01:58:11,400
Speaker 1: or shrubbling, you know, where there's a preponderance of small

1879
01:58:13,240 --> 01:58:16,880
Speaker 1: tree stems, you know, ten fifteen feet tall something like that,

1880
01:58:17,040 --> 01:58:19,800
Speaker 1: or shrubs or what have you. Forty six percent of

1881
01:58:19,880 --> 01:58:23,720
Speaker 1: the nest are in those vegetation types, but only seven

1882
01:58:23,800 --> 01:58:28,360
Speaker 1: percent of the landscape is represented by those vegetation types.

1883
01:58:28,680 --> 01:58:33,320
Speaker 1: So certainly you can see selectivity by the birds when

1884
01:58:33,560 --> 01:58:38,120
Speaker 1: there are different vegetation types available for them to select from.

1885
01:58:38,720 --> 01:58:42,800
Speaker 1: And so think of an overgrown field that can provide

1886
01:58:42,920 --> 01:58:49,520
Speaker 1: excellent nesting cover, but it probably won't provide good brooding cover.

1887
01:58:49,880 --> 01:58:52,520
Speaker 1: Because you know, if you imagine you're a poult, it's

1888
01:58:52,720 --> 01:58:55,720
Speaker 1: you know, three or four inches tall. You literally can't

1889
01:58:55,800 --> 01:59:00,920
Speaker 1: physically navigate through that dense vegetation at ground level. And

1890
01:59:01,120 --> 01:59:04,160
Speaker 1: even for the hens when they're nesting, they don't like

1891
01:59:04,240 --> 01:59:07,920
Speaker 1: to navigate through that either. And so with a number

1892
01:59:07,960 --> 01:59:12,760
Speaker 1: of studies, including ours, something that we find commonly is

1893
01:59:12,880 --> 01:59:16,760
Speaker 1: that the nest will be within twenty to forty yards

1894
01:59:17,000 --> 01:59:20,360
Speaker 1: of the edge of this dnse cover or you know,

1895
01:59:20,520 --> 01:59:24,520
Speaker 1: forty yards from some trail or what have you. So

1896
01:59:24,880 --> 01:59:28,040
Speaker 1: she doesn't want to walk through that dense, thick stuff

1897
01:59:28,480 --> 01:59:30,720
Speaker 1: to get to her nest, as she has to come

1898
01:59:30,800 --> 01:59:33,400
Speaker 1: off of the nest each day for at least, you know,

1899
01:59:33,560 --> 01:59:37,720
Speaker 1: usually at least one recess to go feed and defecate,

1900
01:59:38,360 --> 01:59:42,080
Speaker 1: what have you. And so that then gives rise to

1901
01:59:42,200 --> 01:59:45,720
Speaker 1: the notion of, hmm, what's the scale that I should

1902
01:59:45,760 --> 01:59:48,680
Speaker 1: be managing for with regard to nesting cover. And so

1903
01:59:50,160 --> 01:59:54,640
Speaker 1: if I'm managing a property specifically for turkeys, I don't

1904
01:59:54,680 --> 01:59:57,840
Speaker 1: want that nesting cover to be any more than about

1905
01:59:57,960 --> 02:00:00,640
Speaker 1: eighty yards wide, you know what I'm saying, Because in

1906
02:00:00,760 --> 02:00:04,440
Speaker 1: the interior of that she's likely right to not go

1907
02:00:04,560 --> 02:00:08,840
Speaker 1: in there. But for the for the broods, they may

1908
02:00:08,920 --> 02:00:12,280
Speaker 1: be around the edges of those fields because they can

1909
02:00:12,360 --> 02:00:15,360
Speaker 1: walk and get around, and that's caused lots of people

1910
02:00:15,440 --> 02:00:19,320
Speaker 1: to consider, you know, whether it be turkeys or deer

1911
02:00:19,560 --> 02:00:24,839
Speaker 1: or bob white or rabbits or whatever to be edge species. Personally,

1912
02:00:25,040 --> 02:00:29,200
Speaker 1: I don't agree with that. If you find a species

1913
02:00:29,360 --> 02:00:32,560
Speaker 1: that is only using the edge, and the edge is

1914
02:00:32,640 --> 02:00:35,840
Speaker 1: defined as where two or more vegetation types or two

1915
02:00:35,920 --> 02:00:39,880
Speaker 1: or more successional stages join each other, if you find

1916
02:00:39,920 --> 02:00:43,080
Speaker 1: a species tied to that edge, then what that should

1917
02:00:43,120 --> 02:00:45,520
Speaker 1: tell you is not that the species likes the edge,

1918
02:00:45,920 --> 02:00:49,560
Speaker 1: but the species doesn't like the interior of one or

1919
02:00:49,640 --> 02:00:52,920
Speaker 1: both of the adjoining vegetation types. And what that means

1920
02:00:53,080 --> 02:00:57,240
Speaker 1: is you need to manage that vegetation type differently such

1921
02:00:57,320 --> 02:00:59,120
Speaker 1: that you can see use in the middle of it

1922
02:00:59,360 --> 02:01:01,920
Speaker 1: instead of just along the edge. And so when you

1923
02:01:02,000 --> 02:01:04,920
Speaker 1: see broods around the edge of the field, that immediately

1924
02:01:05,040 --> 02:01:08,520
Speaker 1: tells you the structure in that field is probably not

1925
02:01:08,760 --> 02:01:11,520
Speaker 1: adequate for the bruds to be using in there. And

1926
02:01:11,680 --> 02:01:14,800
Speaker 1: so that's when your management comes in to make these

1927
02:01:14,920 --> 02:01:19,000
Speaker 1: fields and your your woods better with regard to cover,

1928
02:01:19,120 --> 02:01:23,040
Speaker 1: whether it be for nesting or brooding. Or or even

1929
02:01:23,240 --> 02:01:26,760
Speaker 1: even roosting. So there's different things that we do to

1930
02:01:27,120 --> 02:01:29,760
Speaker 1: enhance an area to make it more attractive to turkey.

1931
02:01:29,960 --> 02:01:32,640
Speaker 1: Why they like that you can fix up all of these.

1932
02:01:32,760 --> 02:01:35,120
Speaker 3: They like to roost in certain spots and you can't

1933
02:01:35,240 --> 02:01:37,720
Speaker 3: always tell what it is about the spot, but like

1934
02:01:38,000 --> 02:01:39,680
Speaker 3: it's like you feel like if you took every turkey

1935
02:01:39,800 --> 02:01:42,520
Speaker 3: off and put new turkeys there, they're probably gonna go

1936
02:01:42,600 --> 02:01:46,280
Speaker 3: roos in that spot. Yes, absolutely, have you guys ever

1937
02:01:46,320 --> 02:01:47,360
Speaker 3: looked at like what is it?

1938
02:01:47,840 --> 02:01:51,960
Speaker 1: Well, one thing that is important is the visibility. And

1939
02:01:52,160 --> 02:01:57,440
Speaker 1: so when I'm managing specifically for a roosting area, I

1940
02:01:57,600 --> 02:02:01,200
Speaker 1: might choose and number one, you start where that you

1941
02:02:01,360 --> 02:02:06,640
Speaker 1: know birds are roosting, or if you don't know, or

1942
02:02:06,720 --> 02:02:10,960
Speaker 1: you want to make a roosting area somewhere, it's usually

1943
02:02:11,280 --> 02:02:15,800
Speaker 1: a place where it's up a little higher than the surroundings,

1944
02:02:16,600 --> 02:02:18,960
Speaker 1: or at least on the upper portion of a slope

1945
02:02:19,160 --> 02:02:22,480
Speaker 1: where you know, at least for a gobbler they can call.

1946
02:02:22,640 --> 02:02:26,800
Speaker 1: And I'm referring specifically to springtime and surrounding hunting and

1947
02:02:26,960 --> 02:02:30,080
Speaker 1: trying to make set up a property for better hunting,

1948
02:02:30,920 --> 02:02:34,080
Speaker 1: And so we manage that with fire, and we use

1949
02:02:34,360 --> 02:02:38,560
Speaker 1: low intensity fire, and we're preventing a dense mid story

1950
02:02:38,720 --> 02:02:42,240
Speaker 1: from coming up. We're keeping the understory. You know, mid

1951
02:02:42,320 --> 02:02:44,960
Speaker 1: story is those trees that are above four and a

1952
02:02:45,000 --> 02:02:48,000
Speaker 1: half feet and before they get into the overstory condition.

1953
02:02:48,440 --> 02:02:51,760
Speaker 1: And then the understory is that vegetation as defined as

1954
02:02:51,840 --> 02:02:55,600
Speaker 1: being under four and a half feet. We're keeping that low.

1955
02:02:55,880 --> 02:02:59,720
Speaker 1: We're keeping it open. We're killing trees that we don't

1956
02:02:59,800 --> 02:03:02,640
Speaker 1: want want and leaving the trees that we do want,

1957
02:03:02,880 --> 02:03:09,040
Speaker 1: primarily according to species or form for roosting, allowing a

1958
02:03:09,080 --> 02:03:11,160
Speaker 1: little bit of sunlight to come into the area, but

1959
02:03:11,280 --> 02:03:14,280
Speaker 1: not too much, because if you do, the understory is

1960
02:03:14,320 --> 02:03:15,840
Speaker 1: going to blow up and it's going to be more

1961
02:03:15,880 --> 02:03:19,760
Speaker 1: difficult to keep it open. So these roosting areas probably

1962
02:03:19,880 --> 02:03:24,880
Speaker 1: have anywhere from seventy to one hundred percent shade, no

1963
02:03:25,080 --> 02:03:30,320
Speaker 1: more than about thirty percent sunlight coming in. Now, before

1964
02:03:30,480 --> 02:03:35,760
Speaker 1: somebody screams, I fully understand that turkeys roost in more

1965
02:03:35,880 --> 02:03:39,360
Speaker 1: open areas. And you know, ever been to Kansas. I mean,

1966
02:03:39,440 --> 02:03:42,680
Speaker 1: you know, individual cotton trees along a drainage, there's going

1967
02:03:42,760 --> 02:03:46,440
Speaker 1: to be turkeys there. But I'm talking about in forested conditions.

1968
02:03:46,560 --> 02:03:50,760
Speaker 1: If you want to enhance an area such that you're

1969
02:03:50,960 --> 02:03:55,040
Speaker 1: increasing the preponderance of birds to be roosting in a

1970
02:03:55,080 --> 02:03:59,200
Speaker 1: given area. Manage that where it's open, and what we do,

1971
02:03:59,520 --> 02:04:04,880
Speaker 1: what I prefer to do is leave it alone. I

1972
02:04:05,040 --> 02:04:07,160
Speaker 1: know people are going to think this is crazy, but

1973
02:04:07,560 --> 02:04:11,880
Speaker 1: on lands managed specifically for turkeys and turkey hunting, think

1974
02:04:11,960 --> 02:04:14,880
Speaker 1: of the roost area like you would a bedding area

1975
02:04:15,000 --> 02:04:17,400
Speaker 1: for deer. Do you go into the bedding area to

1976
02:04:17,480 --> 02:04:19,920
Speaker 1: hunt deer. No, that's kind of dumb. You're going to

1977
02:04:20,000 --> 02:04:22,240
Speaker 1: run that buck off and you know it might not

1978
02:04:22,360 --> 02:04:25,360
Speaker 1: return to the property for the rest of the hunting season.

1979
02:04:25,640 --> 02:04:28,760
Speaker 1: And so your roost areas to me, and this is

1980
02:04:28,840 --> 02:04:31,480
Speaker 1: just a personal view, it's kind of like your anchor.

1981
02:04:31,960 --> 02:04:35,560
Speaker 1: And you know, a gobbler is going to usually have

1982
02:04:36,160 --> 02:04:39,600
Speaker 1: three or four areas that they typically use for roosting.

1983
02:04:39,720 --> 02:04:41,600
Speaker 1: Is not going to go back to the same area

1984
02:04:41,720 --> 02:04:45,400
Speaker 1: every night. But if you know, okay, I'm managing these

1985
02:04:45,520 --> 02:04:49,160
Speaker 1: roots spots and I'm not disturbing the birds immediately when

1986
02:04:49,200 --> 02:04:51,880
Speaker 1: they come off of the roost. And how many people,

1987
02:04:51,960 --> 02:04:54,680
Speaker 1: you know, they call and they mess up the bird,

1988
02:04:55,400 --> 02:04:58,280
Speaker 1: they move they you know, when the birds are spooked

1989
02:04:58,840 --> 02:05:02,880
Speaker 1: at their roost site, that just damages your chances of

1990
02:05:03,000 --> 02:05:06,800
Speaker 1: them returning there and them going somewhere else instead. If

1991
02:05:06,840 --> 02:05:10,360
Speaker 1: you know where the birds are going to go, hunt

1992
02:05:10,960 --> 02:05:13,640
Speaker 1: on the birds on the way there, or you can

1993
02:05:13,720 --> 02:05:16,240
Speaker 1: even go there and wait on the birds. And for

1994
02:05:16,320 --> 02:05:17,680
Speaker 1: a lot of people, that means you don't have to

1995
02:05:17,720 --> 02:05:19,960
Speaker 1: get up, you know, two hours four daylight. You can

1996
02:05:20,160 --> 02:05:22,040
Speaker 1: go into the Turkey woods at nine o'clock in the

1997
02:05:22,120 --> 02:05:25,360
Speaker 1: morning and have excellent hunting. One of my favorite times

1998
02:05:25,480 --> 02:05:29,520
Speaker 1: is like from nine o'clock to two pm. And so

1999
02:05:30,040 --> 02:05:33,720
Speaker 1: you're allowing the birds to do their thing early in

2000
02:05:33,760 --> 02:05:35,880
Speaker 1: the morning when they come off the roost, and then

2001
02:05:35,960 --> 02:05:38,680
Speaker 1: when they start to move out, that's when you know

2002
02:05:38,800 --> 02:05:41,360
Speaker 1: where they're going to go. And when you do that,

2003
02:05:41,760 --> 02:05:45,560
Speaker 1: at least in my humble opinion, your success rate goes up.

2004
02:05:46,040 --> 02:05:47,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, but man, you might as well be asking people

2005
02:05:47,960 --> 02:05:53,760
Speaker 3: to quit. I really coffee and stuff, dude. Yeah, it's

2006
02:05:53,800 --> 02:05:58,560
Speaker 3: like the world's most powerful magnet. Like as Star Wars

2007
02:05:58,600 --> 02:06:02,040
Speaker 3: they called a tractor beam, you know, pulls you into

2008
02:06:02,080 --> 02:06:02,760
Speaker 3: that roost tree.

2009
02:06:02,800 --> 02:06:06,680
Speaker 1: You still can hunt near the roost where you're hearing

2010
02:06:07,240 --> 02:06:10,280
Speaker 1: the bird, you know, gobble off the roost, but you know,

2011
02:06:11,160 --> 02:06:13,400
Speaker 1: trying to crawl right there under the bird. You're you're

2012
02:06:13,840 --> 02:06:17,680
Speaker 1: you're risking messing things up if you don't kill him.

2013
02:06:17,720 --> 02:06:19,840
Speaker 3: One of my favorite things about turkey hunt know is

2014
02:06:20,160 --> 02:06:23,880
Speaker 3: is the when you get real close. I say, you're

2015
02:06:24,000 --> 02:06:30,200
Speaker 3: seventy yards from that roof tree, where you're like, it

2016
02:06:30,280 --> 02:06:32,960
Speaker 3: seems like there's no way we're not going to kill

2017
02:06:33,000 --> 02:06:35,440
Speaker 3: this turkey, but the other part of your brain knows

2018
02:06:35,520 --> 02:06:35,840
Speaker 3: you won't.

2019
02:06:38,440 --> 02:06:41,040
Speaker 1: I think this morning, I think I heard that very

2020
02:06:41,120 --> 02:06:42,040
Speaker 1: recently this morning.

2021
02:06:42,120 --> 02:06:45,000
Speaker 3: I was like, how would it like? Of course we're

2022
02:06:45,000 --> 02:06:47,440
Speaker 3: going to kill these turkeys, And then they hit the

2023
02:06:47,480 --> 02:06:53,880
Speaker 3: ground and they stop gobling, and in a while later ebody, God,

2024
02:06:53,960 --> 02:06:55,720
Speaker 3: want it's like something inch and a half. You're like,

2025
02:06:55,840 --> 02:06:56,480
Speaker 3: what happened?

2026
02:06:57,200 --> 02:07:01,280
Speaker 1: It is amazing how they can avoid death by us. Anyway,

2027
02:07:02,720 --> 02:07:03,320
Speaker 1: we have.

2028
02:07:03,560 --> 02:07:10,760
Speaker 3: These in our studio. We have various formulas up. We

2029
02:07:10,960 --> 02:07:12,760
Speaker 3: had an original one and people cracked at it. We've

2030
02:07:12,800 --> 02:07:14,920
Speaker 3: made it into a T shirt. Would be that if

2031
02:07:14,960 --> 02:07:21,680
Speaker 3: you get within seventy yards of a roose tree and

2032
02:07:21,800 --> 02:07:25,680
Speaker 3: don't do anything, creep in and don't do anything, don't

2033
02:07:25,680 --> 02:07:27,360
Speaker 3: put out a decoy, don't touch a call.

2034
02:07:27,600 --> 02:07:32,000
Speaker 1: Can I interrupt yep, you immediately have a twenty five

2035
02:07:32,080 --> 02:07:33,440
Speaker 1: percent chance of killing that.

2036
02:07:33,480 --> 02:07:39,080
Speaker 3: Bird thirteen, you have a thirteen percent chance killing that,

2037
02:07:39,120 --> 02:07:41,200
Speaker 3: according to which choked to you, we have right, Yeah,

2038
02:07:41,720 --> 02:07:44,400
Speaker 3: well we varied those, like it's hard to pin down

2039
02:07:44,480 --> 02:07:46,440
Speaker 3: because you get into certain brush types and stuff. I

2040
02:07:46,520 --> 02:07:49,920
Speaker 3: think we figured right. We tried to figure your seventy

2041
02:07:50,040 --> 02:07:55,400
Speaker 3: yards out and you got thirty yards. Okay, you know,

2042
02:07:56,000 --> 02:07:59,240
Speaker 3: and it's not a given, no, And I know it's

2043
02:07:59,280 --> 02:08:02,680
Speaker 3: and it's like, but I sometimes wonder if setting up

2044
02:08:02,720 --> 02:08:05,880
Speaker 3: on them is that much better than thirteen percent. And

2045
02:08:05,960 --> 02:08:07,160
Speaker 3: it's a little better, but it's not.

2046
02:08:08,040 --> 02:08:12,800
Speaker 1: It's very similar to duck hunting. I love to listen

2047
02:08:12,880 --> 02:08:17,320
Speaker 1: to Phil Robertson and one of the things that he said,

2048
02:08:17,360 --> 02:08:21,120
Speaker 1: and I'm sure I'm not stating this verbatim, but you know,

2049
02:08:21,240 --> 02:08:25,680
Speaker 1: if the ducks are coming, don't call. If you know

2050
02:08:26,280 --> 02:08:28,960
Speaker 1: where the ducks are going to go, there's your best

2051
02:08:29,120 --> 02:08:32,680
Speaker 1: bet for being a successful duck hunter, not trying to

2052
02:08:32,880 --> 02:08:35,120
Speaker 1: call them into a place they don't want to go.

2053
02:08:35,720 --> 02:08:38,920
Speaker 1: Just be where they want to go. And the same

2054
02:08:39,040 --> 02:08:42,160
Speaker 1: thing is true for turkey hutting, which I found myself

2055
02:08:42,240 --> 02:08:46,080
Speaker 1: in that position yesterday. You know, it's how did I

2056
02:08:46,160 --> 02:08:49,640
Speaker 1: get in this position? I would never choose this position

2057
02:08:50,040 --> 02:08:54,400
Speaker 1: to try to call a turkey, but situations happen. Here's

2058
02:08:54,440 --> 02:08:57,600
Speaker 1: where I am, and I can't move. This is it's

2059
02:08:57,840 --> 02:09:01,200
Speaker 1: I can either just not call or I can try,

2060
02:09:01,320 --> 02:09:04,360
Speaker 1: and more time than not, I'm gonna try.

2061
02:09:04,680 --> 02:09:08,280
Speaker 3: We got this, this this t RCP fundraiser hunt. We

2062
02:09:08,320 --> 02:09:13,280
Speaker 3: got coming up. Me and Johannis. We have a spot

2063
02:09:14,320 --> 02:09:20,280
Speaker 3: where we agree. If you went there and didn't just

2064
02:09:20,480 --> 02:09:23,960
Speaker 3: crept in and didn't do anything, we have a few

2065
02:09:24,040 --> 02:09:27,160
Speaker 3: days to hunt. If you went there and didn't do

2066
02:09:27,240 --> 02:09:30,560
Speaker 3: anything and just sat there, you are absolutely you're gonna

2067
02:09:30,600 --> 02:09:33,920
Speaker 3: kill a turkey every day. Stay that. But he's like, yeah,

2068
02:09:33,960 --> 02:09:35,680
Speaker 3: what I was mentioning, But he's like, no one wants

2069
02:09:35,720 --> 02:09:36,040
Speaker 3: to do that.

2070
02:09:37,680 --> 02:09:41,200
Speaker 1: If you set up the property correctly, you can take

2071
02:09:41,280 --> 02:09:43,960
Speaker 1: someone who is never turkey hunted and just say sit

2072
02:09:44,120 --> 02:09:46,880
Speaker 1: right here, sit right here, and be patient. Yeah, and

2073
02:09:47,080 --> 02:09:50,480
Speaker 1: whatever you do, don't put out a decoy. No, don't call,

2074
02:09:51,000 --> 02:09:54,520
Speaker 1: just sit They're going to come right through here.

2075
02:09:54,760 --> 02:09:54,920
Speaker 3: Now.

2076
02:09:55,240 --> 02:09:57,600
Speaker 1: If you can't stand it and you want to scratch

2077
02:09:57,720 --> 02:09:59,360
Speaker 1: on a call a little bit, you know, give them

2078
02:09:59,400 --> 02:10:03,280
Speaker 1: a sleigh or a box call and just don't hit

2079
02:10:03,360 --> 02:10:06,040
Speaker 1: it more than three times and they'll feel like they're

2080
02:10:06,080 --> 02:10:09,440
Speaker 1: doing something and Okay, you're you're being active, but just

2081
02:10:09,520 --> 02:10:13,760
Speaker 1: sit here, you're eighty percent you're going to shoot a bird.

2082
02:10:13,840 --> 02:10:16,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, there are spots on this place. If you go

2083
02:10:16,160 --> 02:10:19,320
Speaker 3: where I think of a couple of them in particular,

2084
02:10:19,440 --> 02:10:24,600
Speaker 3: It's like, yeah, there's just no if you had that time,

2085
02:10:24,680 --> 02:10:28,160
Speaker 3: there's no way if you just sat and ambushed and

2086
02:10:28,280 --> 02:10:30,520
Speaker 3: had a little shoot and hole out into an intersection

2087
02:10:31,360 --> 02:10:35,360
Speaker 3: every day, if every day. But no one wants to

2088
02:10:35,400 --> 02:10:36,800
Speaker 3: do that. Man, they want to get out, they want

2089
02:10:36,840 --> 02:10:37,400
Speaker 3: to make noise.

2090
02:10:38,600 --> 02:10:41,080
Speaker 1: But like I was saying, if you set the property

2091
02:10:41,160 --> 02:10:46,680
Speaker 1: up correctly, and if you have the luxury of having

2092
02:10:46,760 --> 02:10:50,240
Speaker 1: a property, private property where you can manage, and you

2093
02:10:50,440 --> 02:10:54,120
Speaker 1: just observe turkeys, just just observe them. And the same

2094
02:10:54,240 --> 02:10:57,200
Speaker 1: is true with with deer and other species. But you know,

2095
02:10:57,880 --> 02:11:00,840
Speaker 1: you're not necessarily hunting, but you're going out and you're

2096
02:11:00,840 --> 02:11:04,440
Speaker 1: observing and watching what they're doing, or when you are hunting,

2097
02:11:05,000 --> 02:11:09,080
Speaker 1: take you know, exercise some patience and just watch them

2098
02:11:09,240 --> 02:11:12,360
Speaker 1: instead of just trying to get in close or call

2099
02:11:12,400 --> 02:11:14,440
Speaker 1: them to you watch what they do, watch where they go.

2100
02:11:14,960 --> 02:11:19,040
Speaker 1: And then you can set up areas where there are

2101
02:11:19,920 --> 02:11:23,360
Speaker 1: some type of objects or funnels where the birds are

2102
02:11:23,400 --> 02:11:25,280
Speaker 1: going to walk through here, they're going to use this area,

2103
02:11:25,520 --> 02:11:28,960
Speaker 1: and then we will set up these specific spots to sit.

2104
02:11:29,680 --> 02:11:32,920
Speaker 1: And even if you're not a good caller, you're going

2105
02:11:32,960 --> 02:11:35,800
Speaker 1: to have excellent success because you know the property and

2106
02:11:35,920 --> 02:11:39,120
Speaker 1: you know the birds on your property, and you're not

2107
02:11:39,800 --> 02:11:42,360
Speaker 1: just setting up under the roofs tree trying to get

2108
02:11:42,400 --> 02:11:45,920
Speaker 1: them to come to you at first light, but you're

2109
02:11:45,920 --> 02:11:49,120
Speaker 1: allowing them to do their thing. You're not shooting too

2110
02:11:49,240 --> 02:11:52,760
Speaker 1: many of them, you know, instead of like there's five

2111
02:11:52,880 --> 02:11:56,960
Speaker 1: guys a hundred acres and the other properties around are

2112
02:11:56,960 --> 02:12:00,160
Speaker 1: also small, and everybody's trying to kill the birds. You know,

2113
02:12:01,080 --> 02:12:03,920
Speaker 1: back off of that where you know this property can

2114
02:12:04,040 --> 02:12:09,560
Speaker 1: only sustain so much hunting, so much harvest, and still

2115
02:12:09,720 --> 02:12:12,640
Speaker 1: have some of those older age turkeys out there. So

2116
02:12:13,280 --> 02:12:17,040
Speaker 1: I think paying attention to that is very important. And

2117
02:12:17,160 --> 02:12:20,880
Speaker 1: in those years where you're not seeing or hearing as

2118
02:12:20,960 --> 02:12:24,120
Speaker 1: many I realize private landowners, you know, they don't have

2119
02:12:25,640 --> 02:12:29,040
Speaker 1: polch for hand surveys or whatever necessarily, but at least

2120
02:12:29,120 --> 02:12:34,680
Speaker 1: your visual and auditory senses what you see and what

2121
02:12:34,800 --> 02:12:37,280
Speaker 1: you hear. If you're not seeing or hearing as many,

2122
02:12:37,760 --> 02:12:41,160
Speaker 1: back off of the kill some you know, stop trying

2123
02:12:41,200 --> 02:12:44,600
Speaker 1: to kill every goblin bird on the property and leave

2124
02:12:44,720 --> 02:12:48,640
Speaker 1: some so they can get into that older age group.

2125
02:12:48,760 --> 02:12:52,280
Speaker 1: And you're helping ensure that there's mature birds out there.

2126
02:12:53,160 --> 02:12:56,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, you've mentioned that a couple of times. That's sticking

2127
02:12:56,040 --> 02:12:58,240
Speaker 3: with me that it seems like a thing you hear

2128
02:12:58,320 --> 02:13:00,560
Speaker 3: people say, like, are you saw always get my turkey

2129
02:13:00,600 --> 02:13:03,120
Speaker 3: the first day? Yes, now it takes me six days,

2130
02:13:03,560 --> 02:13:04,320
Speaker 3: I still get them.

2131
02:13:04,880 --> 02:13:08,680
Speaker 1: Or or we you know the group of hunters we

2132
02:13:09,160 --> 02:13:12,040
Speaker 1: used to kill twelve, Now you know we're lucky if

2133
02:13:12,040 --> 02:13:14,480
Speaker 1: we'll kill three. Well, look at how many of there

2134
02:13:14,560 --> 02:13:18,640
Speaker 1: are out there, and during those years of low productivity,

2135
02:13:18,880 --> 02:13:21,040
Speaker 1: that's gonna be that's going to show up in a

2136
02:13:21,120 --> 02:13:23,800
Speaker 1: couple of years once those birds would get to be two.

2137
02:13:24,280 --> 02:13:29,800
Speaker 1: And if you have really poor hatch years or really

2138
02:13:29,960 --> 02:13:34,720
Speaker 1: poor polt survival, you've got to meter your harvest along

2139
02:13:34,800 --> 02:13:35,080
Speaker 1: with that.

2140
02:13:36,520 --> 02:13:41,600
Speaker 3: How do people you have your services available? You do

2141
02:13:41,720 --> 02:13:45,440
Speaker 3: work for people and people can contact you. Well, is

2142
02:13:45,480 --> 02:13:47,360
Speaker 3: that not true? I have a day job.

2143
02:13:48,640 --> 02:13:52,880
Speaker 1: I work for the University of Tennessee and that keeps

2144
02:13:52,960 --> 02:13:56,960
Speaker 1: me extremely busy. I am on the road all the time.

2145
02:13:57,160 --> 02:13:59,120
Speaker 3: I didn't know if for some aspect, if you had

2146
02:13:59,240 --> 02:14:00,520
Speaker 3: clients that you went and worked with.

2147
02:14:01,760 --> 02:14:04,920
Speaker 1: I do, and I do a few of those each year.

2148
02:14:05,240 --> 02:14:08,560
Speaker 1: You know, we're allowed to do uh some consulting out

2149
02:14:08,600 --> 02:14:13,080
Speaker 1: of state, but I don't do much of that, and

2150
02:14:13,480 --> 02:14:16,600
Speaker 1: I don't advertise that also, although I just I guess

2151
02:14:16,640 --> 02:14:18,040
Speaker 1: I just said that to a whole lot of people.

2152
02:14:18,040 --> 02:14:20,880
Speaker 3: But yeah, so you don't want people emailing you their

2153
02:14:20,920 --> 02:14:21,760
Speaker 3: turkey questions.

2154
02:14:23,680 --> 02:14:27,720
Speaker 1: You know, email is like the bane of my existence.

2155
02:14:28,280 --> 02:14:30,040
Speaker 3: You just want to call, you want to call.

2156
02:14:30,520 --> 02:14:33,920
Speaker 1: It's like rules my life, man. I mean, that's my job.

2157
02:14:34,000 --> 02:14:37,520
Speaker 1: I've got to answer emails and there's just so much

2158
02:14:38,240 --> 02:14:41,320
Speaker 1: email pressure and we'll hit people with your cell phone.

2159
02:14:42,680 --> 02:14:48,800
Speaker 3: Would so, But if people want to look into if

2160
02:14:48,840 --> 02:14:51,360
Speaker 3: people want to see about let's say someone wants is

2161
02:14:51,400 --> 02:14:56,200
Speaker 3: so interested in wild turkeys, they want to start instead

2162
02:14:56,240 --> 02:14:59,360
Speaker 3: of listening to the guys at the bar, right, they

2163
02:14:59,480 --> 02:15:03,320
Speaker 3: want to are educating themselves about all aspects of turkey Okay,

2164
02:15:03,680 --> 02:15:09,120
Speaker 3: turkey behavior, turkey management, turkey biology. What do they do?

2165
02:15:09,680 --> 02:15:12,240
Speaker 3: What would you recommend someone does who wants to be

2166
02:15:12,400 --> 02:15:14,840
Speaker 3: on like cutting edge of turkey understanding.

2167
02:15:15,720 --> 02:15:19,840
Speaker 1: I think a great starting place is to look at

2168
02:15:19,880 --> 02:15:26,240
Speaker 1: your universities that are conducting turkey research, look at the

2169
02:15:26,360 --> 02:15:31,560
Speaker 1: products that they have available, whether that be written or podcast,

2170
02:15:31,800 --> 02:15:35,240
Speaker 1: there's a lot of those out there. At no time

2171
02:15:35,360 --> 02:15:41,560
Speaker 1: in the past have people been able to access scientific

2172
02:15:41,680 --> 02:15:47,960
Speaker 1: information and scientific information that has been written or delivered

2173
02:15:48,080 --> 02:15:51,080
Speaker 1: in a way that the layperson can understand than now.

2174
02:15:51,560 --> 02:15:55,840
Speaker 1: And so I would look specifically to those universities that

2175
02:15:55,920 --> 02:15:59,800
Speaker 1: are doing the research. Everything is online now and they're

2176
02:16:00,400 --> 02:16:05,800
Speaker 1: gobs of sources of not just information, but accurate information

2177
02:16:06,000 --> 02:16:10,320
Speaker 1: that isn't just someone's opinion, but this is science based

2178
02:16:10,600 --> 02:16:11,520
Speaker 1: and data driven.

2179
02:16:13,400 --> 02:16:16,640
Speaker 3: And when you crystal ball, when you look in your

2180
02:16:16,720 --> 02:16:20,080
Speaker 3: little your crystal ball, we're still hunting turkeys, and so

2181
02:16:20,280 --> 02:16:26,120
Speaker 3: my kids, my kids twelve, is he hunting turkeys when

2182
02:16:26,160 --> 02:16:26,840
Speaker 3: he's sixty two?

2183
02:16:30,600 --> 02:16:31,720
Speaker 1: Yes, I do think so.

2184
02:16:32,040 --> 02:16:32,680
Speaker 3: I do think so.

2185
02:16:33,000 --> 02:16:37,360
Speaker 1: I do not believe turkeys are going to crash everywhere.

2186
02:16:38,160 --> 02:16:43,600
Speaker 1: They're resilient birds. And we are taking giant steps ahead

2187
02:16:43,680 --> 02:16:46,200
Speaker 1: with all of the research that's being done to help

2188
02:16:46,280 --> 02:16:51,160
Speaker 1: find teune the the regulations and learn more about their

2189
02:16:51,320 --> 02:16:55,800
Speaker 1: needs and how management can make positive adjustments for all

2190
02:16:55,840 --> 02:16:56,000
Speaker 1: of that.

2191
02:16:56,640 --> 02:16:58,400
Speaker 3: You know what question I wish you could answer for me,

2192
02:16:59,680 --> 02:17:02,520
Speaker 3: is my kids twelve when he's thirty two? Is he

2193
02:17:02,600 --> 02:17:07,000
Speaker 3: hunting grizzlies in the lower forty eight. That's a political place.

2194
02:17:07,040 --> 02:17:09,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was about to say, considering the political climate,

2195
02:17:10,320 --> 02:17:11,520
Speaker 1: that I would not guarantee.

2196
02:17:11,560 --> 02:17:15,840
Speaker 3: That's purely a political question. That question is completely divorced

2197
02:17:16,400 --> 02:17:17,920
Speaker 3: from anything I have to do with bio.

2198
02:17:18,200 --> 02:17:20,400
Speaker 1: I've heard, I've heard you have some opinions on that.

2199
02:17:22,040 --> 02:17:26,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, I do, And like I said, I don't. I

2200
02:17:26,800 --> 02:17:30,640
Speaker 3: don't personally need to be I'm not personally asking or

2201
02:17:30,720 --> 02:17:35,440
Speaker 3: needing to be the one. In fact, if I could,

2202
02:17:35,720 --> 02:17:37,560
Speaker 3: I would. If someone said to me, I'm going to

2203
02:17:37,600 --> 02:17:41,640
Speaker 3: give you a choice, there's a choice here. We will

2204
02:17:43,240 --> 02:17:45,640
Speaker 3: follow the US Fish and Wildlife Services.

2205
02:17:49,040 --> 02:17:49,560
Speaker 1: We will.

2206
02:17:50,920 --> 02:17:54,040
Speaker 3: Follow their direction and follow what they've tried to do

2207
02:17:54,160 --> 02:17:59,120
Speaker 3: repeatedly and delist grizzly bears in some of the distinct

2208
02:17:59,200 --> 02:18:04,279
Speaker 3: population sect the Greater Yellowstone, the Northern Continental Divide populations

2209
02:18:04,760 --> 02:18:08,520
Speaker 3: that the US Fishing Wildlife Service has asked for the

2210
02:18:08,600 --> 02:18:13,160
Speaker 3: bears to be delisted. If people said to me, we

2211
02:18:13,320 --> 02:18:18,959
Speaker 3: will allow the Fishing Wildlife Services wishes to be carried out,

2212
02:18:19,800 --> 02:18:22,400
Speaker 3: and you have to agree that you'll never even try

2213
02:18:22,480 --> 02:18:27,640
Speaker 3: to draw a tag, I would say, no problem. Right,

2214
02:18:28,240 --> 02:18:32,080
Speaker 3: It's not like a personal thing it's not a personal thing,

2215
02:18:33,640 --> 02:18:36,760
Speaker 3: all right, tell people where you're at again, you don't

2216
02:18:36,760 --> 02:18:37,959
Speaker 3: want them to come find you though.

2217
02:18:38,400 --> 02:18:39,560
Speaker 1: The University of Tennessee.

2218
02:18:40,480 --> 02:18:43,920
Speaker 3: You can take gradual students. Oh, we've talked about that.

2219
02:18:44,000 --> 02:18:45,160
Speaker 3: You want people to come apply.

2220
02:18:45,080 --> 02:18:51,480
Speaker 1: For always look for good students. I have several really

2221
02:18:52,040 --> 02:18:56,200
Speaker 1: good graduate students right now. That that has been That

2222
02:18:56,360 --> 02:19:00,360
Speaker 1: has been my biggest blessing of this job, as having

2223
02:19:01,480 --> 02:19:05,000
Speaker 1: the graduate students that I have had. They have everyone,

2224
02:19:05,240 --> 02:19:15,680
Speaker 1: literally without exception, have been fantastic, fantastic people, fantastic workers,

2225
02:19:16,680 --> 02:19:21,680
Speaker 1: developed into find scientists. They're all over the country and

2226
02:19:22,240 --> 02:19:23,000
Speaker 1: every one.

2227
02:19:22,959 --> 02:19:25,440
Speaker 3: Of them has a wildlife job.

2228
02:19:25,720 --> 02:19:31,680
Speaker 1: I am very, very proud of them. It's the biggest

2229
02:19:31,720 --> 02:19:33,520
Speaker 1: blessing that I've gotten out of this job is my

2230
02:19:33,640 --> 02:19:35,160
Speaker 1: relationship with the graduate student.

2231
02:19:35,200 --> 02:19:37,080
Speaker 3: I got one. I do have one last question. What

2232
02:19:37,240 --> 02:19:41,039
Speaker 3: percentage of your graduate students are hunters or anglers? One?

2233
02:19:41,640 --> 02:19:42,200
Speaker 3: Is that right? Oh?

2234
02:19:42,280 --> 02:19:47,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, every one of them. Now there's a couple of

2235
02:19:47,360 --> 02:19:53,040
Speaker 1: them that don't hunt much, but every one of them hunt.

2236
02:19:54,360 --> 02:20:01,600
Speaker 1: You know, there's a screening process, Steve. You know when

2237
02:20:02,040 --> 02:20:05,360
Speaker 1: when we're riding around during interviews and I asked them,

2238
02:20:05,440 --> 02:20:08,320
Speaker 1: where do y'all want to go eat. Uh, that's a

2239
02:20:08,400 --> 02:20:11,560
Speaker 1: tailing question right there. Oh you want to eat that? Well,

2240
02:20:12,920 --> 02:20:15,400
Speaker 1: I wish so bad. If I don't like fried fish

2241
02:20:15,520 --> 02:20:18,320
Speaker 1: and barbecue and whatnot, you know that we could have

2242
02:20:18,440 --> 02:20:21,720
Speaker 1: some issues. And number one, if you don't eat deer, mate,

2243
02:20:22,280 --> 02:20:23,360
Speaker 1: we got a big issue.

2244
02:20:24,040 --> 02:20:25,800
Speaker 3: I wish I could tell you who said this, man,

2245
02:20:25,879 --> 02:20:27,640
Speaker 3: But I know someone that gets a lot of grad

2246
02:20:27,680 --> 02:20:31,560
Speaker 3: students and technicians and stuff, you know, and they're saying

2247
02:20:31,640 --> 02:20:35,000
Speaker 3: they're walking me through. They're walking me through when they're

2248
02:20:35,000 --> 02:20:40,280
Speaker 3: looking at the applications and they're looking for you know,

2249
02:20:40,840 --> 02:20:43,920
Speaker 3: they're looking for the kid out of Minnesota that just

2250
02:20:44,000 --> 02:20:48,480
Speaker 3: did the crudiest jobs on the planet, you know, creole surveys,

2251
02:20:49,520 --> 02:20:52,760
Speaker 3: net surveys, you know what I mean. And he says, Man,

2252
02:20:53,080 --> 02:20:55,800
Speaker 3: the minute I see Costa Rica, that one's the tra

2253
02:20:59,120 --> 02:21:01,400
Speaker 3: you asked me. It's like people that can work.

2254
02:21:01,600 --> 02:21:04,440
Speaker 1: You asked me when I started about what I do.

2255
02:21:05,959 --> 02:21:10,280
Speaker 1: And I'll bring this back to the graduate student question.

2256
02:21:11,080 --> 02:21:14,359
Speaker 1: You know, when I finished my master's degree, there literally

2257
02:21:15,440 --> 02:21:19,720
Speaker 1: was no job even to apply for in wildlife in

2258
02:21:19,879 --> 02:21:26,600
Speaker 1: the region. There was nothing, And so I then looked

2259
02:21:26,600 --> 02:21:30,600
Speaker 1: at PhD positions. I had a couple of offers. I

2260
02:21:30,720 --> 02:21:35,120
Speaker 1: got into a PhD program, not because I necessarily wanted to,

2261
02:21:35,560 --> 02:21:39,320
Speaker 1: but I was married to the love of my life

2262
02:21:39,400 --> 02:21:43,240
Speaker 1: and had one daughter at that time, and I had

2263
02:21:43,280 --> 02:21:46,600
Speaker 1: to have a job, and so I was intrigued with

2264
02:21:46,760 --> 02:21:48,640
Speaker 1: the PhD possibility.

2265
02:21:48,840 --> 02:21:49,880
Speaker 3: So fast forward.

2266
02:21:50,760 --> 02:21:55,039
Speaker 1: I finished my PhD at Clemson, had a wonderful, wonderful

2267
02:21:55,160 --> 02:21:58,760
Speaker 1: experience at Clemson. But then I thought, now what am

2268
02:21:58,800 --> 02:22:02,000
Speaker 1: I going to do. You know, I'm not quote a professor,

2269
02:22:02,560 --> 02:22:05,320
Speaker 1: that's not me. I'm a manager. And I have just

2270
02:22:05,600 --> 02:22:09,320
Speaker 1: educated myself out of every job that I ever wanted.

2271
02:22:10,240 --> 02:22:13,119
Speaker 1: And it was at that time this position came open

2272
02:22:13,360 --> 02:22:17,760
Speaker 1: with the University of Tennessee in extension, and that extension

2273
02:22:18,360 --> 02:22:23,800
Speaker 1: responsibility fit me perfectly. And because I could have graduate

2274
02:22:23,879 --> 02:22:28,600
Speaker 1: student graduate students, I then decided, this is my goal

2275
02:22:28,800 --> 02:22:32,640
Speaker 1: for my professional life, and that is to produce Although

2276
02:22:32,760 --> 02:22:35,640
Speaker 1: I can't be an on the ground manager anymore. You know,

2277
02:22:35,720 --> 02:22:39,240
Speaker 1: I've just educated myself out of those jobs. But my

2278
02:22:39,440 --> 02:22:43,720
Speaker 1: goal is to produce the best managers that any state

2279
02:22:43,840 --> 02:22:48,160
Speaker 1: agency could possibly ask for. And that's what my graduate students,

2280
02:22:49,480 --> 02:22:53,680
Speaker 1: that's what they are. They are outstanding. They are managers.

2281
02:22:54,160 --> 02:22:57,080
Speaker 1: They become scientists while they're there and they've done a

2282
02:22:57,120 --> 02:22:57,959
Speaker 1: fantastic job.

2283
02:22:58,640 --> 02:23:01,920
Speaker 3: Good graduations. Keep pumping those hunters through the system.

2284
02:23:01,959 --> 02:23:05,240
Speaker 1: We are trying, all right, every bit.

2285
02:23:05,959 --> 02:23:11,840
Speaker 3: Professor, you can't call you professor, no, Doctor Craighart, Doctor Craighart,

2286
02:23:12,879 --> 02:23:14,640
Speaker 3: thank you for joining my pleasure.

2287
02:23:20,680 --> 02:23:22,039
Speaker 1: Ride on.

2288
02:23:26,360 --> 02:23:33,119
Speaker 5: On the seal, br shine like silver in the sun.

2289
02:23:37,000 --> 02:23:44,560
Speaker 1: Ride ride on alone, a sweetheart.

2290
02:23:45,440 --> 02:23:52,120
Speaker 3: Were done beat this damn horse today, taking a new drive.

2291
02:23:55,640 --> 02:24:01,240
Speaker 3: We're done beat this damn horse today, so take a

2292
02:24:01,360 --> 02:24:03,440
Speaker 3: new one and ride on.