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Speaker 1: Love. Welcome back to another week of Wide Open. I

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Speaker 1: am your host, Ashlyn Harris, and I'm so excited today

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Speaker 1: to introduce our guest, Margaret Show. Who is the powerhouse, trailblazer,

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Speaker 1: brutally honest, deeply funny, politically, fearless, you name it, huge advocate. Margaret,

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Speaker 1: Welcome to the show. How are you?

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Speaker 2: Thank you? Thank you so much. That's wonderful.

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Speaker 1: I'm doing great, good good. And I you know, I

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Speaker 1: love I love your comedy. I love the rawness, I

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Speaker 1: love the realness of it. And you've been doing this

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Speaker 1: for a very very long time.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 1: But before I start, I'm curious I like to ask everyone,

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Speaker 1: you know, because what this show really is about is

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Speaker 1: who you are outside of what you do. Because I

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Speaker 1: think so much of who we are as public figures,

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Speaker 1: you see such a small part of it, but you

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Speaker 1: really don't know the origin or where it started or

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Speaker 1: how it started. So before we dive into all the

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Speaker 1: greatness that you carry throughout your career, I'm curious of

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Speaker 1: you know. I know you were born and raised in

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Speaker 1: San Francisco.

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Speaker 2: Correct, that's correct?

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Speaker 1: Yes, what was it like being little Margaret? Tell me everything?

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Speaker 1: Tell the listeners who you were as a kid, and

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Speaker 1: how you your becoming of who you are today.

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Speaker 3: I think I will I was a super shy child,

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Speaker 3: and I realize now probably somewhere on the spectrum like

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Speaker 3: autism of like the neurodivergence because I was really nonverbal

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Speaker 3: for like a long time. That had a lot to

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Speaker 3: do with the circumstances of my upbringing. It was very

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Speaker 3: difficult because when I was born on my got deported

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Speaker 3: and then I went with him back to Korea, and

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Speaker 3: then he came back to the United States three years later,

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Speaker 3: so I was separated from my mother all that time

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Speaker 3: she was a citizen and staying in the country, and

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Speaker 3: then he came back and became a citizen. But it

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Speaker 3: was a very difficult start, so I had language barrier,

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Speaker 3: but also some kind of difficulty like connecting with people

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Speaker 3: because I was separated from my mom. I was kind

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Speaker 3: of taken away into a different country. So it was

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Speaker 3: like there's a lot of stuff that made me very

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Speaker 3: socially awkward, and like when I went to school, I

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Speaker 3: was socially awkward with kids and I didn't really have

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Speaker 3: a lot of friends. It didn't really have a lot

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Speaker 3: of connections with people, but I was making fun of

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Speaker 3: people in my head, Like I was making fun of

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Speaker 3: like anything in my head, and like it would only

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Speaker 3: come out if I was writing. Like sometimes we'd have

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Speaker 3: to like write essays in school, and then I would

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Speaker 3: write something and then teachers would be like really offended

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Speaker 3: because I would be really mean about them or like

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Speaker 3: other people in the school, like other kids, And so

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Speaker 3: I got called at the principal's office multiple times for

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Speaker 3: being disruptive, but only in my writing, and like my

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Speaker 3: writing my feelings, and that's sort of when like jokes

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Speaker 3: would start to come out. And so then later when

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Speaker 3: I was in high school, I got more confidence, and

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Speaker 3: then I was in theater and I was doing comedy

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Speaker 3: classes in school, and I went to performing arts kigh school,

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Speaker 3: so our teacher would sign us up for comedy clubs

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Speaker 3: at night to do open mics. And this is when

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Speaker 3: I was like fourteen, that's when I started doing comedy.

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Speaker 3: So I didn't really have a social life of friends

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Speaker 3: until I was a teenager and started doing that. But

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Speaker 3: being a comedian brought me friendship. It brought me connection

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Speaker 3: with other kids and then other people later on. You know,

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Speaker 3: it's how I communicate. It's still how I communicate most

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Speaker 3: my friends or comedians or musicians or people who are

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Speaker 3: in the arts somehow, you know, Like that's just the

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Speaker 3: community that I really vibe with and who I connect with.

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Speaker 3: But that's what it's always been.

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Speaker 1: Is there. I mean, I've read so much about you know,

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Speaker 1: who you were as a child, and you always have

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Speaker 1: been very open that you know, you were a Korean

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Speaker 1: American born here and you said you were I don't

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Speaker 1: want to use the word fat, but you that's the word.

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Speaker 1: You said, A little overweight, goofy kid. Do you find

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Speaker 1: that you hid behind your comedy in terms of because

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Speaker 1: you you did? You have mentioned you were like bullied

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Speaker 1: a little bit and those younger like years of primary school,

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Speaker 1: middle school, high school. Do you think comedy is kind

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Speaker 1: of that buffer that if I made, if I was

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Speaker 1: so funny and I was so likable and I got

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Speaker 1: out there before everyone else, I would like kind of

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Speaker 1: take the eye off of me being the like butt

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Speaker 1: of a joke or you just just was natural.

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Speaker 3: Well yeah, I mean also it's like a deflection also,

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Speaker 3: like when you're fat as a kid like I was,

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Speaker 3: and like and as a teenager like always like my

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Speaker 3: friends were really pretty girls, like pretty girls like to

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Speaker 3: have a fat friend because then they can have their

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Speaker 3: legal representation.

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Speaker 2: So you become like their weird attorney where guys.

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Speaker 3: Will come up and bring their proposals to you so

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Speaker 3: they can talk to the pretty girl.

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Speaker 2: Like it's very it's so.

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Speaker 3: This is great weirdly like your sexuality, your desirability, even

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Speaker 3: if you're a kid, but still like all that is

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Speaker 3: discounted because of your way. Yeah, you know, and so

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Speaker 3: I never felt like I could participate in society because

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Speaker 3: I was larger, and you know, I think that psychologically

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Speaker 3: that's always had a sort of like effect on me.

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Speaker 3: You know, my body image has so much to do

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Speaker 3: with how I felt inside, and so that was hard

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Speaker 3: to change.

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Speaker 1: Well, because I can imagine you know, you as a child,

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Speaker 1: because you're funny as hell, Like, do you ever I'm

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Speaker 1: so curious, like when did you first realize the world

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Speaker 1: actually didn't know what to do with someone like you,

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Speaker 1: who was this really funny phenom young kid who made

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Speaker 1: everyone laugh, who didn't look like you know, these typical

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Speaker 1: girls next door. Did you know that you were different

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Speaker 1: and you were moving differently and this is like a

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Speaker 1: real profession for you to continue performing or were you

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Speaker 1: just like, I'm young, you know, I'm fearless, I'm kind

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Speaker 1: of flying off of the seat of my pants. That

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Speaker 1: really that stuff doesn't really I'm not thinking like that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I didn't really know, but I did get a

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Speaker 3: lot of encouragement, you know, Like I got to work

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Speaker 3: with Jerry Seinfeld when I was a really young teenager

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Speaker 3: and he said, you know, you, if you decide to

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Speaker 3: pursue this, you'll have a very successful career. And that

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Speaker 3: was such a vote of confidence. You know, it was

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Speaker 3: really just a kid, and I didn't know what I

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Speaker 3: was doing, and he was like, you have a unit perspective,

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Speaker 3: you have a really unique voice, and you're really talented,

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Speaker 3: and you will go far if you want to do

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Speaker 3: this with your life. And I was like such a

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Speaker 3: And he was at that time and still is the

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Speaker 3: biggest comedian in the world, so you know, and we're

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Speaker 3: still friends and we're still like he's always encouraging me, which.

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Speaker 2: Is the best.

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Speaker 3: So I had a lot of people who were super influential,

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Speaker 3: people like Rosie O'Donnell, who knew me when I was

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Speaker 3: a really young kid, who was incredibly encouraging. Yeah, lots

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Speaker 3: of different people who were very very famous at the time,

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Speaker 3: like Joan Rivers was incredibly encouraging. So I had a

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Speaker 3: good amount of people who were very very successful tell

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Speaker 3: me you were going to do well if you want

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Speaker 3: to do this, Like they always gave me that choice,

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Speaker 3: like you're free to do what you want, but if

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Speaker 3: you do this, you're gonna you're gonna be okay, and

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Speaker 3: like that's kind of all I needed to hear, was

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Speaker 3: that kind of confidence because I didn't know have.

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Speaker 2: A clear path.

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Speaker 3: There was no clear path for me, you know, because

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Speaker 3: I wasn't going to school. I wasn't going to like

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Speaker 3: any career that anybody knew how to be in. But

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Speaker 3: I also did love to do stand up comedy. Like

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Speaker 3: I loved that I didn't have to worry about anybody else.

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Speaker 3: Nobody had to give me a job. All they had

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Speaker 3: to do was give me stage time and I could

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Speaker 3: create the world on my own.

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Speaker 1: And you were such a trailblazer and all of it.

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Speaker 1: It's just it's I'm so curious, when did queerness enter

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Speaker 1: the equation for you? Because you've been such a loyal

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Speaker 1: advocate for so long and you've been so open about

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Speaker 1: the things that our community goes through. And that's you know,

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Speaker 1: between mental health and suicide, pseudicidal thoughts and all of

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Speaker 1: these things like when did that becoming actually come out

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Speaker 1: and who you were as a kid or was it

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Speaker 1: way later in life.

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Speaker 3: Well, that was always there. I mean, my parents were

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Speaker 3: always very open to queerness. So they had a gay bookstore.

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Speaker 3: They owned a gay bookstore, so they were.

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Speaker 1: Like, gosh, that is amazing.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, in the seventies they were like in business with

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Speaker 3: gay people, and they were like hosting gay events, and so,

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Speaker 3: you know that was gay was considered normal.

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Speaker 2: Straight was always the anomaly.

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Speaker 3: So when I was younger, I always identified as a lesbian.

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Speaker 3: It wasn't until later that I realized, oh, I'm actually bisexual,

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Speaker 3: and then later I think, oh, well, I think queer

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Speaker 3: is actually probably the right terminology. It's the one that fits.

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Speaker 3: That was always part of my reality. It was always

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Speaker 3: part of my comedy, and it was always part of

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Speaker 3: my life, and it was very much like just.

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Speaker 2: A detail, and I think it was.

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Speaker 3: Really kind of acceptable because of the fact that I'm

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Speaker 3: not white, I'm not a man. Then those two things

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Speaker 3: kind of like people are in the eighties and nineties,

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Speaker 3: p weren't as curious about it, like people are very

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Speaker 3: curious if you're sort of straight, white male, like you

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Speaker 3: sort of have show any gayness.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, they want.

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Speaker 3: To know, but everybody else the kind of like there's

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Speaker 3: a question marking around it. And then there's there's a

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Speaker 3: gradness to the idea of the fluidity. And then I

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Speaker 3: remember that what the movie that really had an effect

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Speaker 3: on me is Basic Instinct. I love Basic Instinct. Yes,

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Speaker 3: I love the lesbian chic of the nineties. You know,

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Speaker 3: that's so cool, And so there was a kind of

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Speaker 3: elegance around it. There was a kind of mystery, and

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Speaker 3: then you know, Sandy Bernhard, who's a really good friend

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Speaker 3: of mine, also was very like mysterious about it. So

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Speaker 3: there was a kind of eloquence that you could have

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Speaker 3: around queerness and being a woman, in particular in entertainment

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Speaker 3: in the early part of the nineties, you know, Madonna

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Speaker 3: was playing around with it, so there was a kind

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Speaker 3: of safety there, which led to him more openness later

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Speaker 3: of course, with people, very very big women in comedy

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Speaker 3: coming out. But you know, it's a different it's a

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Speaker 3: different world now, you know when we think about it,

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Speaker 3: although right now there's this kind of conservative element creeping

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Speaker 3: back which is really scary, but in general, if you're

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Speaker 3: not a white man, you can get away with a lot.

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Speaker 1: That part, yeah, that part, and it, you know, because

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Speaker 1: you have been so open with your experiences with you know,

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Speaker 1: an eating disorder and sexual abuse, and you know, it's

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Speaker 1: been a really incredible vulnerability you've given to your audience

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Speaker 1: about the things that you've had to overcome. And I'm curious,

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Speaker 1: like how humor became away maybe of survival for you

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Speaker 1: and then eventually became a way of thriving because still

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Speaker 1: to this day, there's just no one like you. And

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Speaker 1: I think that's so cool because you know, as a

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Speaker 1: queer woman and tattoos who played sports her whole life, like,

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Speaker 1: I didn't see people like me, and I'm almost about

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Speaker 1: to be forty, so I can imagine you sure as

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Speaker 1: hell didn't see people like you, and how that became

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Speaker 1: how you really leaned into comedy for a way of

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Speaker 1: survival based on the things your experience in your personal life.

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Speaker 1: Is that pretty true to say that was almost your

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Speaker 1: outlet because sports was always my outlet. Yeah I needed it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I agree.

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Speaker 3: I think that like sports, like comedy is like an outlet,

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Speaker 3: and it is really a place to go for safety.

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Speaker 2: Humor, though, is hope.

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Speaker 3: Humor is a way to find hope in a situation

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Speaker 3: that seems hopeless, whether that is abuse, whether that's addiction,

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Speaker 3: whether that's eating disorders, whether that's any kind of problem

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Speaker 3: that you're having. If you can laugh about an aspect

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Speaker 3: of it, then there's a glimmer of hope that you'll

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Speaker 3: survive it. If you even break it down to what

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Speaker 3: laughter is is an unexpected into air that's going to

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Speaker 3: ensure that you live for the next moment. So it's

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Speaker 3: unexpected life crashing in when you didn't expect it, which

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Speaker 3: is going to keep you alive to see it through.

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Speaker 3: So there's the metaphor of laughter, but also the physical

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Speaker 3: action of it is life affirming. There's a lot of

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Speaker 3: like I think truth to it. You know, the people

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Speaker 3: who laugh, they live longer because we're just forced to,

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Speaker 3: like breathe. I think it's really vital. And there's a

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Speaker 3: lot of things that I do just in my daily

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Speaker 3: life to get ahead of everything too, Like I have

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Speaker 3: a really strong meditation practice, I have a really strong

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Speaker 3: I'm in recovery, so I'm in a strong recovery community

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Speaker 3: that I'm super involved with.

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Speaker 2: So there's a lot of stuff that we do.

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Speaker 1: That's really great, and congratulations on that, because it is

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Speaker 1: definitely something that is not easy, and especially in the

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Speaker 1: profession of inner attainment. Because what I think, and I

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Speaker 1: can't say for certain because I'm not a comedian, I

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Speaker 1: think what separates a lot of us in the entertainment

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Speaker 1: industry is if I'm playing a character, I can hide

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Speaker 1: behind those walls, right if I'm playing, if I'm on

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Speaker 1: a movie, or if I'm an athlete, like I just

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Speaker 1: have to bring that character to the table. And it's

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Speaker 1: not necessarily it is me because I'm in it and

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Speaker 1: I'm experiencing it in real time. But there is something

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Speaker 1: I can hide behind. I think what people don't realize

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Speaker 1: is like comedy is so different because no matter whatever

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Speaker 1: shit you're going through behind closed doors, when you show

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Speaker 1: up on stage, you actually have to be you and

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Speaker 1: you're you're telling the truth through comedy. And you did

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Speaker 1: that long before it was cool. What gave you that

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Speaker 1: fire to do that when things especially when things are

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Speaker 1: fucking hard and you have to show up and give

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Speaker 1: yourself to so many people, Well.

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Speaker 2: It's to me, it's really fun.

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Speaker 3: Like it's just also really fun because we can all

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Speaker 3: laugh together about these things. When people laugh, it's like

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Speaker 3: what laughter means is an agreement. They're like, when you're

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Speaker 3: laughing at something, you're almost unconsciously in agreement with what's

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Speaker 3: being said, because laughter is such an unconscious, involuntary act.

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Speaker 3: For the most part, we laugh because we can't help it,

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Speaker 3: like it's funny to us, and so we laugh, and

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Speaker 3: it's like something that you almost can't explain. So when

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Speaker 3: people are laughing, it's a recognition of a humanity in

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Speaker 3: you that makes you want to give back and give more.

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Speaker 3: So it's only fulfilling, you know. To me, it's never

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Speaker 3: felt like I am unable to recoup my investment. And

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Speaker 3: what I've done like always get back every time I

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Speaker 3: do a show or you know whatever, I get back

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Speaker 3: so much more than the effort that I put at.

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Speaker 2: So it's always.

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Speaker 3: Really rejuvenating and really replenishing. It's a very nourishing thing

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Speaker 3: to be an artist in this way. So and it

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Speaker 3: has to continually be renew because I always have to

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Speaker 3: write new material except to write and continue to perform,

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Speaker 3: continue to rejuvenate my ideas and refresh what I'm doing.

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Speaker 3: So the more effort I put into it, the more

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Speaker 3: that I get out of it, and it always always

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Speaker 3: come out very very well, well compensated.

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Speaker 2: At the end.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I love that. And I was reading quite a

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Speaker 1: bit about your the early years of what you were

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Speaker 1: doing and you like got into dominatrix Like what that

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Speaker 1: is so far?

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah cool. I was not good at it. That

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Speaker 2: I only did it was it was so bad.

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Speaker 3: Like I worked at a well, I worked at this

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Speaker 3: place that was like I helped open the retail shop

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Speaker 3: because it used to be just a factory, and then

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Speaker 3: they opened a retail store with they were like making

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Speaker 3: like leather dildos and they were selling them in their

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Speaker 3: retail store. And then I there was a dominatrix that

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Speaker 3: work there.

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Speaker 2: I got in on a couple of her sessions.

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Speaker 3: I was really bad at it, like I because what

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Speaker 3: a dominatrix is is it's you have to be a therapist,

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Speaker 3: a sex worker, a mind reader. Sometimes you have to

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Speaker 3: be so you're like so uh connected to this person

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Speaker 3: and and and their desires and drawing them out and

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Speaker 3: and and and really kind of.

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Speaker 2: Giving life to their fantasy.

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Speaker 3: So you're an actor, you're sometimes are parent, you're all

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Speaker 3: of these things. That I don't have any ability to be,

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Speaker 3: you know, so I think that, Yeah, dominatrixes are really

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Speaker 3: that is one of You're also a body worker, yeah,

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Speaker 3: you know, you're like a physical therapist. There's a lot

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Speaker 3: of stuff that goes into play when you're working in

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Speaker 3: that capacity, which so it's very welcombled compensated financially, which

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Speaker 3: is good.

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Speaker 2: But it's hard work.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure it is. And I'm curious though so much

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Speaker 1: of us fear like we're scared to stand outside of

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Speaker 1: the box or the lane, you know. And I love

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Speaker 1: that you just have this bullish mentality. You're like, I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna fucking do everything and I'm gonna live this like

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Speaker 1: well rounded life and I'm gonna feel zero shame about it.

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Speaker 1: And it's like, I wish I could be more like you.

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Speaker 1: I because we do internally innately, like inside of us,

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Speaker 1: we have these desires of doing things, but we're so

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Speaker 1: scared to act on them because it might not fall

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Speaker 1: into the norm. And everything you've ever done has been

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Speaker 1: literally an outside of what people would say is conventional.

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Speaker 1: And do you think like that? Do you give it

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Speaker 1: doesn't help by being so open give permission to other

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Speaker 1: people to experience life at its fullest these ways, or

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Speaker 1: you're just like, yeah, I hope.

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Speaker 3: So I mean I hope that it does, you know,

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Speaker 3: Like I just really like to do different things. I

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Speaker 3: like to do things that are challenging. Also, like that's

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Speaker 3: why I love stand up comedy because it's like this

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Speaker 3: thing that will never always quite figure out, you know,

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Speaker 3: because every audience is different and every show is different,

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Speaker 3: and everything is always it's always a blank slate that

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Speaker 3: you have to go and try to figure out and

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Speaker 3: reconfigure all these things. And also with the comedy, your

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Speaker 3: fame quote unquote fame or whatever will only buy you

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Speaker 3: about ten seconds of people's like ears, you know, and attention,

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Speaker 3: so you have to deliver really quickly always. So that's

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Speaker 3: what keeps us all on our toes. I mean, that's

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Speaker 3: why you'll see, like comedian, we have to work every night,

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Speaker 3: So I pretty much do. I have to work every

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Speaker 3: night somewhere because I can't lose that connection with people.

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Speaker 3: So I guess because you have to keep going back,

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Speaker 3: that's what's so engaging and thrilling about it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, practice is a big part of anyone's profession.

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Speaker 1: To stay what they call like on the saddle, I guess,

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Speaker 1: but do you ever have Has there ever been a

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Speaker 1: moment where like this is why I never could be

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Speaker 1: a comedian because I'm I don't have that mentality. I

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Speaker 1: just can't imagine if I stood up there and no

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Speaker 1: one laughed, Like for me, what is the scariest part

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Speaker 1: of being a comedian? Like as a goalkeeper and as

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Speaker 1: an athlete, you know, I make one mistake and it

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Speaker 1: changes the entire game, Like I don't have the liberty

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Speaker 1: to fuck up. I just don't. I'm the last person

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Speaker 1: in defense. So I'm curious, what's that? What does that

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Speaker 1: look like for your world as a comedian. Do you

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Speaker 1: ever walk off stage and you're like, holy shit, I

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Speaker 1: just really fucking tank that or is it just you

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Speaker 1: don't land it? Like, how what does that look like

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Speaker 1: for comedy?

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Speaker 3: Well, there's a micro failures and micro successes within each performance,

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Speaker 3: you know, with every subject that you broach, with everything

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Speaker 3: that you try out, you know, there's always like dips

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Speaker 3: and then you know and there's yeah, there's there I

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Speaker 3: do poorly sometimes and I'm like I can't believe, like

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Speaker 3: I couldn't dig myself out of that, you know, because

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Speaker 3: we have escape patches, like even if like comedians have

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Speaker 3: ways of getting us out of situations that we've tried

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Speaker 3: tried in the past, you know, like when you've done

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Speaker 3: this for long enough, you kind of get sort of

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Speaker 3: a game plan of, oh, I can deal with this,

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Speaker 3: like I've dealt with this before, I know what this is.

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Speaker 2: But every once in a.

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Speaker 3: While you'll come up with the situation that you can't

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Speaker 3: I can't best it, and then I just have to leave.

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Speaker 3: But also the stakes aren't as high necessarily, I mean,

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Speaker 3: they're emotionally high. Sometimes as you drew up there, you

393
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Speaker 3: don't want to fail, you know. But at the same time,

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Speaker 3: in the grand scheme of things, it's just because people

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Speaker 3: not laughing, it doesn't really matter.

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Speaker 1: Because you do think differently, Margaret, Like you've always been

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Speaker 1: so unapologetically political in a lot of ways, and God,

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Speaker 1: especially now that a world that is so fragmented and

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Speaker 1: so divided and so touchy when it comes to politics,

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Speaker 1: Like has the crowd shifted and the energy shifted now

401
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Speaker 1: versus you know maybe at the beginning of your career,

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Speaker 1: is there a really different dynamic.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's very different, And it's really like about remembering

404
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Speaker 3: to be an entertainer. Like, That's what I always want

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Speaker 3: to have in mind for myself, because I don't want

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Speaker 3: to be so mad and preachy and yelling at people

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Speaker 3: about what they should believe. Politically, I think that I

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Speaker 3: do really strongly have opinion opinions about what I think

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Speaker 3: is right. But at the same time, it's not my

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Speaker 3: place to rattle on about that unless it is, you know,

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Speaker 3: unless I do do a lot of shows in political context.

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Speaker 3: I do shows, I did, you know, lots of work

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Speaker 3: on the Kamala Harris campaign. You know, I do work

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Speaker 3: in the political arenas. But I'm not Then it's not

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Speaker 3: necessary to, you know, be super angry at people.

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Speaker 2: You know, you just have to accept that you're an entertainer.

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Speaker 3: I want to remember I'm an entertainer first, yep, and

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Speaker 3: that's what I care about doing a good show more

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Speaker 3: than other things. But I still care about those other

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Speaker 3: things and that can come out in other ways.

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Speaker 1: Stay tuned, we'll be right back after this. And you

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Speaker 1: mentioned you know about your sobriety, and you really made

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Speaker 1: it at such an early age. Not many people, especially

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Speaker 1: the pressures of which which you have to go through

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Speaker 1: as a fourteen year old child standing up and moving

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Speaker 1: an audience to laughter, Like what can you talk to

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Speaker 1: me about your substance abuse? And was it based on

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Speaker 1: the pressure? Was it based on No?

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Speaker 2: I don't think so.

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Speaker 3: I think like I'm just naturally inclined to like inebriation,

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Speaker 3: Like I'm just a naturally inclined person towards addiction, like

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Speaker 3: I like alcohol, I like drugs, like I like the

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Speaker 3: feeling of being drunk and high, and I.

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Speaker 2: Do it to excess, and it's not.

435
00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:48,359
Speaker 3: Something that I can go back and do it, you know,

436
00:24:48,359 --> 00:24:51,040
Speaker 3: because I've tried tried my whole life to try to

437
00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:56,040
Speaker 3: be an occasional user and a casual drinker, and I've

438
00:24:56,200 --> 00:24:59,359
Speaker 3: failed every time. So now it's in the last decade, Wow,

439
00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:02,360
Speaker 3: I've made the real decision. I'm not doing this anymore.

440
00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:07,119
Speaker 3: And it has to be very, very forceful to really

441
00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:10,960
Speaker 3: stay that way. So now recovery is a very big

442
00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:13,840
Speaker 3: part of my life. Whereas before, like I was always

443
00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:16,880
Speaker 3: like kind of broaching it, like wanting to do it,

444
00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:22,879
Speaker 3: but never quite committing. So that's like the latest journey is,

445
00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:26,879
Speaker 3: let's do this. I mean, if I had stuck to it,

446
00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:29,800
Speaker 3: I would have like over thirty years of sobriety, but

447
00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:34,080
Speaker 3: I don't because I always thought I can go back

448
00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:35,960
Speaker 3: and do that and that's the one thing that I

449
00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:36,480
Speaker 3: can't do.

450
00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:41,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. And has the sobriety shifted your work at

451
00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:46,040
Speaker 1: all today or do you feel, you know, even being

452
00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:49,280
Speaker 1: fully present it's better or do you feel like has

453
00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:52,600
Speaker 1: it changed anything of the way you move on stage

454
00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:53,400
Speaker 1: or not at all?

455
00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:56,200
Speaker 3: Yeah? Yeah, I mean sobriety has given me a lot

456
00:25:56,240 --> 00:26:00,080
Speaker 3: of I mean, it's just improved every area of my

457
00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:04,960
Speaker 3: life in ways that I mean I can't even express,

458
00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:07,840
Speaker 3: like it's just so much better because my mood overall

459
00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:14,800
Speaker 3: is better. So it's just a completely new life. And

460
00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:18,240
Speaker 3: it's so different from even just being in a quote

461
00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:24,000
Speaker 3: unquote occasional casual because I can't be you know, So

462
00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:28,639
Speaker 3: it's really, yeah, it's pretty incredible what sobriety has done.

463
00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:32,959
Speaker 3: But overall, I'm just a happier person, which is the

464
00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:35,040
Speaker 3: best outcome of it all.

465
00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:36,200
Speaker 2: I mean, that's the best thing.

466
00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:41,640
Speaker 1: It really is, And you know, I think it's I've

467
00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:45,600
Speaker 1: watched it firsthand in my family and it definitely is

468
00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:50,960
Speaker 1: not easy, and it is a lifelong commitment of every

469
00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:54,160
Speaker 1: day choosing exactly what you said you have very strict

470
00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:58,240
Speaker 1: guardrails around how you choose to live and probably who

471
00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:00,679
Speaker 1: you choose to live it with, and shows up in

472
00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:04,480
Speaker 1: those spaces. Yeah, but I am I'd love to dive

473
00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:10,680
Speaker 1: into and I can't wait. Your queerness and however evolving

474
00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:13,679
Speaker 1: it has been, you know, for you over the years,

475
00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:17,440
Speaker 1: because you are one of the ogs. And what I'm

476
00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:22,639
Speaker 1: finding now in our community is people are so quick

477
00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:27,359
Speaker 1: to want to put you in a box, even though

478
00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:30,520
Speaker 1: that's what the same box we've been fighting so hard

479
00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:33,119
Speaker 1: to get away from in our community. It's like, how

480
00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:35,760
Speaker 1: do you label yourself? As you said, you were like

481
00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:40,040
Speaker 1: a lesbian, then you were you wanted to be bisexual,

482
00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:42,439
Speaker 1: and then you wanted to be queer. And it's just like,

483
00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:46,600
Speaker 1: I feel a lot of people in our community have

484
00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:52,720
Speaker 1: been coming out and shifting whatever identity that makes sense

485
00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:55,400
Speaker 1: for them, and they're taking a lot of hatred online.

486
00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:58,320
Speaker 1: And I'm curious of your thought on this because yours

487
00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:01,000
Speaker 1: has been ever changing and in the public eye for

488
00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:04,359
Speaker 1: a long time. What is your view on it? Because

489
00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:07,719
Speaker 1: I'm I think labels are so wonky and weird, and

490
00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:12,159
Speaker 1: also who fucking cares? Like does it really matter? Everything?

491
00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:15,959
Speaker 1: And everyone is on a spectrum, but uh, you know,

492
00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:19,159
Speaker 1: as someone who's lived it, what are your thoughts on it?

493
00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:23,880
Speaker 1: And how has you know your queerness affected your audience

494
00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:25,720
Speaker 1: and fans over time.

495
00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:28,080
Speaker 2: I think that people have a lot of.

496
00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:33,840
Speaker 3: Invested in identity and the labels, you know, because the

497
00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:37,399
Speaker 3: labels have a lot of baggage. You know. We we uh,

498
00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:40,880
Speaker 3: we want to know where people stand because we want

499
00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:44,880
Speaker 3: to know like who is going to be there for us,

500
00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:46,360
Speaker 3: so who is going to speak to us?

501
00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:48,040
Speaker 2: Or you know, all sorts of stuff.

502
00:28:48,160 --> 00:28:51,440
Speaker 3: But I think with queerness it's tough because we can

503
00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:56,480
Speaker 3: evolve and shift over time and over relationships. And so

504
00:28:56,560 --> 00:28:59,960
Speaker 3: that's why I like the term queer because it actually

505
00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:07,160
Speaker 3: allows me to have the fullness of experience that I am.

506
00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:11,360
Speaker 3: But at the same time, like, I also understand when

507
00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:15,120
Speaker 3: people are like, like, there's a lot of hysteria around

508
00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:17,240
Speaker 3: like Jojo sewell, yes, I.

509
00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:20,280
Speaker 1: Think I didn't want to say it, but we're saying.

510
00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:24,480
Speaker 3: It's interesting because people were super like, you know, she's

511
00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:29,000
Speaker 3: come out and she's going to be like this lesbian champion.

512
00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:33,400
Speaker 3: And I think that we love this idea of like

513
00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:39,320
Speaker 3: somebody who is like strongly identified in being lesbian and strong,

514
00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:42,440
Speaker 3: and then when they have a relationship with a man,

515
00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:43,360
Speaker 3: it's shocking.

516
00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:44,760
Speaker 2: It's like a cold.

517
00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:47,320
Speaker 3: Shower of like wait, wait, wait, you know, like but

518
00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:49,520
Speaker 3: I thought, you know, and so people have so much

519
00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:54,280
Speaker 3: invested in this idea of who somebody is. But you know,

520
00:29:55,560 --> 00:30:01,360
Speaker 3: I think generally sexuality is it's a spectrum, you know,

521
00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:03,160
Speaker 3: and it's going to move. So it's like it's going

522
00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:05,280
Speaker 3: to move along with you in life, and it's going

523
00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:09,800
Speaker 3: to change and grow with you. So it doesn't discount

524
00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:13,040
Speaker 3: the lesbian that she was before, you know. I think

525
00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:17,600
Speaker 3: it just expands the idea of who we all are.

526
00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:21,120
Speaker 3: There is no I don't think there's such a thing

527
00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:23,880
Speaker 3: as like gay betrayal.

528
00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:26,560
Speaker 2: I mean, unless you go full like.

529
00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:29,440
Speaker 3: Log cabin and then you want gayness to be outlawed.

530
00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:31,800
Speaker 3: Like that's sort of a different story. Like they're like,

531
00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:35,000
Speaker 3: it's not like these horrible stories of people who say

532
00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:38,360
Speaker 3: they've converted and now they see the truth like that

533
00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:41,240
Speaker 3: that's I don't think that's possible anyway. You know. I

534
00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:43,720
Speaker 3: don't think you can pray away the gay no matter

535
00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:47,640
Speaker 3: how hard you want it. Like it's I think it's

536
00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:51,840
Speaker 3: just understanding that we have more within us than we

537
00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:56,719
Speaker 3: realize and that also doesn't mean as much as we think. So,

538
00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:02,760
Speaker 3: but yeah, we do get very allied with people who

539
00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:06,440
Speaker 3: we believe we sort of take ownership, especially if artists,

540
00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:11,719
Speaker 3: because we want them to be our hours. Then we

541
00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:15,360
Speaker 3: want them to be our people. And I think they

542
00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:17,400
Speaker 3: still are, you know, they still can't be.

543
00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:18,760
Speaker 1: Uh.

544
00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:22,640
Speaker 2: It just it's hard, you know, like it's it's it's

545
00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:27,840
Speaker 2: hard to I feel for both parties, you know, I

546
00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:31,400
Speaker 2: feel for those the flex. Fletcher is another one. Oh yeah,

547
00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:32,400
Speaker 2: Fletcher is a.

548
00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:36,440
Speaker 3: Big, very big deal. I feel for Fletcher fans. So

549
00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:39,440
Speaker 3: I understand that feeling of betrayal because it was all

550
00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:44,120
Speaker 3: of this, these years of really writing about lesbian yearning.

551
00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:47,120
Speaker 3: And the the thing is, you can't mess with lesbian yearning.

552
00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:50,680
Speaker 1: You really can't.

553
00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:54,160
Speaker 3: When you tap into the sort of Katie line, constant

554
00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:58,520
Speaker 3: craving vibe, you can't deviate from that. So then when people,

555
00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:00,640
Speaker 3: you know, then she do sort of out the song

556
00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:04,280
Speaker 3: about a man and this kind of during Pride month also,

557
00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:08,200
Speaker 3: there's all this stuff that people feel very betrayed, but

558
00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:12,760
Speaker 3: at the same time, you know, doesn't discount all of

559
00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:15,720
Speaker 3: the stuff that she made you feel before. Exactly, it

560
00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:19,080
Speaker 3: shouldn't it shouldn't, you know, but it is.

561
00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:21,040
Speaker 2: I get it. I get both sides.

562
00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:23,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, like I don't know how I would

563
00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:28,520
Speaker 3: feel like if chapel Ron suddenly had a trad wife

564
00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:33,440
Speaker 3: like like up like updo and kind of different look

565
00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:37,080
Speaker 3: like you know, that would be but that's yeah, yeah,

566
00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:39,520
Speaker 3: that would be strange. But at the same time, it's

567
00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:42,880
Speaker 3: like we don't have the option to take artists and say, well,

568
00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:44,200
Speaker 3: then you have to be this for the rest.

569
00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:47,640
Speaker 1: Of time, which also isn't fair. It's not fair because

570
00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:49,000
Speaker 1: we were evolving.

571
00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:51,440
Speaker 2: I mean, we're all evolving, all.

572
00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:53,720
Speaker 1: Evolving in real time, and the world is moving with

573
00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:58,160
Speaker 1: technology like so fucking fast, like we have no choice

574
00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:01,560
Speaker 1: to be set in our ways anymore, like life outside

575
00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:06,080
Speaker 1: of our box and realm, like everything is moving so quickly.

576
00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:10,080
Speaker 1: It feels like, oh it's a lot of times technology

577
00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:13,600
Speaker 1: is such a great thing. But it's that's why we're

578
00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:15,680
Speaker 1: all fucking stressed out all the time, you know. On

579
00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:20,280
Speaker 1: that kind of same topic, because queerness to you, you know,

580
00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:23,440
Speaker 1: while you were married and your identity like it has

581
00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:26,680
Speaker 1: been ever changing, just like we were we were talking about,

582
00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:30,000
Speaker 1: and what I loved is you know, I know you're

583
00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:34,120
Speaker 1: not married anymore, but you had an open marriage. So

584
00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:38,080
Speaker 1: I'm curious, like, over this time of love sex partnership,

585
00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:43,280
Speaker 1: how has that evolved? Because I know a lot of

586
00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:45,959
Speaker 1: my friends who are in open marriages, but like, no

587
00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:49,160
Speaker 1: one's willing to talk about it, And I'm like, why

588
00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:51,520
Speaker 1: are we not willing to talk about it? Because it's

589
00:33:51,560 --> 00:33:56,640
Speaker 1: taboo because it's not traditional, Like, how did you feel

590
00:33:56,760 --> 00:33:57,160
Speaker 1: in that?

591
00:33:57,760 --> 00:33:59,680
Speaker 3: I didn't think it worked. That's why I didn't want

592
00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:01,440
Speaker 3: to talk about it when I was doing it. Oh,

593
00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:04,240
Speaker 3: I don't think. I inherently don't think it works. I

594
00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:07,800
Speaker 3: think because nobody is willing to put up the level

595
00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:12,160
Speaker 3: of communication that it actually requires. Like for you to

596
00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:15,239
Speaker 3: be in an open relationship or a polycule, you have

597
00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:21,160
Speaker 3: to do so much actual, honest work to make it viable.

598
00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:24,760
Speaker 3: Nobody I don't want to do that. There are people

599
00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:27,759
Speaker 3: in the world that may want to, I've not met

600
00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:32,480
Speaker 3: them yet. It's so tough to do, and it's so

601
00:34:33,160 --> 00:34:38,200
Speaker 3: it requires such a level of maturity and grace and

602
00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:42,120
Speaker 3: finesse that nobody wants to do. Like I already, as

603
00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:44,200
Speaker 3: a lesbian, don't want to process anyway. So I'm like

604
00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:47,200
Speaker 3: a bad lesbian because I hate processing I hate talking

605
00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:49,560
Speaker 3: about feelings. I hate going to couple's therapy. I hate

606
00:34:49,600 --> 00:34:51,359
Speaker 3: it so much, like I don't want to do it.

607
00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:55,440
Speaker 3: So I am in a really bad way when it

608
00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:58,280
Speaker 3: comes to like, you know, any kind of open relationship,

609
00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:02,520
Speaker 3: any kind of polycule, any kind of I believe it

610
00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:07,800
Speaker 3: only works with people are incredibly mature, serious, communicative, open

611
00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:11,399
Speaker 3: and working on it actively. And I don't think all

612
00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:12,880
Speaker 3: parties are.

613
00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:15,760
Speaker 1: But aren't we like jealous beans at our core?

614
00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:16,720
Speaker 2: Yes?

615
00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:20,320
Speaker 1: And I'm just like I think you had maybe mentioned

616
00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:23,759
Speaker 1: that at some point and you were so real about it.

617
00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:28,080
Speaker 1: It's like I'm a jealous like fucking human at my core,

618
00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:31,440
Speaker 1: Like I what's mine as mine and it's sacred and

619
00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:34,120
Speaker 1: I don't want people touching it or like being like

620
00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:37,600
Speaker 1: you know what I mean? And yeah, it was jealousy.

621
00:35:37,719 --> 00:35:40,319
Speaker 1: The biggest thing that creeps in, Like how do you

622
00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:43,480
Speaker 1: not have jealousy in an open marriage or relationships?

623
00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:50,799
Speaker 3: It's really impossible not to also having jealousy of you know,

624
00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:54,759
Speaker 3: the partner having jealousy about you, you know, like it's

625
00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:59,520
Speaker 3: a two way street, and so it's impossible to completely negotiate.

626
00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:04,160
Speaker 2: Out of that, you know. So now what I am

627
00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:04,799
Speaker 2: in I'm in.

628
00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:07,600
Speaker 3: Sort of a series of like situationships that are super

629
00:36:07,640 --> 00:36:09,600
Speaker 3: casual that have been going on for years, that are

630
00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:14,480
Speaker 3: not going anywhere, that are also they are like like

631
00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:17,799
Speaker 3: paused for years at a time as well. So my

632
00:36:18,280 --> 00:36:22,200
Speaker 3: situation now is super grown, I think, but also not.

633
00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:26,320
Speaker 3: It's not a polycule, it's not a relationship, it's not anything.

634
00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:29,279
Speaker 3: So I'm very comfortable there. I don't know if I

635
00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:34,680
Speaker 3: would ever be in another relationship that wasn't that because

636
00:36:34,719 --> 00:36:39,360
Speaker 3: now I'm so committed to my own serenity that i

637
00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:41,920
Speaker 3: don't feel like anything else is appropriate.

638
00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:43,120
Speaker 2: But you know it's possible.

639
00:36:43,719 --> 00:36:47,360
Speaker 1: Are you like, are you open to dating? Are you dating?

640
00:36:47,520 --> 00:36:50,160
Speaker 1: What is your like? Where are you at now with

641
00:36:50,239 --> 00:36:50,680
Speaker 1: all of that?

642
00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:54,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm open to dating. I'm open to meeting new people.

643
00:36:54,400 --> 00:36:57,840
Speaker 3: I'm there, I'm out there, I am dating, But I'm also,

644
00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:03,080
Speaker 3: you know, not really willing to be in a committed relationship.

645
00:37:03,400 --> 00:37:07,440
Speaker 1: It's really like an interesting thing as you continue to

646
00:37:08,160 --> 00:37:11,880
Speaker 1: you know, progress and age and understand yourself more. I

647
00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:15,839
Speaker 1: think as we were younger, it's like this weird timeline.

648
00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:20,560
Speaker 1: We're all trying to check all these boxes, and you know,

649
00:37:20,600 --> 00:37:22,120
Speaker 1: once you do this, you got to move to the

650
00:37:22,160 --> 00:37:24,560
Speaker 1: next step and do to that, and then once you

651
00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:26,880
Speaker 1: do all of it, and you lose yourself in the process,

652
00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:28,799
Speaker 1: you're like, what the fuck was I doing? Like I

653
00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:32,040
Speaker 1: don't even recognize the person I'm looking at in the

654
00:37:32,040 --> 00:37:37,640
Speaker 1: mirror anymore. And you get so much more comfortable being alone. Yeah,

655
00:37:37,719 --> 00:37:41,120
Speaker 1: I just like you know, I you know, a few

656
00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:44,279
Speaker 1: years ago, got divorced and had the kids, had the home,

657
00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:47,640
Speaker 1: had the life, and it's just not always the fairy

658
00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:48,759
Speaker 1: tale you think it is.

659
00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:50,520
Speaker 2: No.

660
00:37:50,520 --> 00:37:54,960
Speaker 3: No, Sometimes being in a relationship is the loneliest thing,

661
00:37:55,280 --> 00:37:57,880
Speaker 3: and that's I don't ever want to feel that again.

662
00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:01,640
Speaker 3: So I'm grateful now tended to be where I am,

663
00:38:01,680 --> 00:38:04,279
Speaker 3: where I have companionship when I want it. But I'm

664
00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:08,520
Speaker 3: also seeking that solitude which I really deserve.

665
00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:09,040
Speaker 2: I want.

666
00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:12,960
Speaker 1: I love that. And at your home, no pets, no nothing,

667
00:38:13,640 --> 00:38:14,560
Speaker 1: just like zen.

668
00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:16,680
Speaker 2: Oh no, I have many pets.

669
00:38:16,719 --> 00:38:18,160
Speaker 1: Ah tell me everything.

670
00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:20,560
Speaker 2: I have this stuff right here.

671
00:38:20,760 --> 00:38:23,960
Speaker 1: Oh my god, Hi, sweetie.

672
00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:29,359
Speaker 3: That's Lucia. She's always on my body somewhere. She's always

673
00:38:29,960 --> 00:38:31,120
Speaker 3: just she's sleeping.

674
00:38:31,239 --> 00:38:33,239
Speaker 1: Who needs a partner when you have Lucia.

675
00:38:33,520 --> 00:38:36,719
Speaker 3: I have a Lucia, Katerina. I have three cats who

676
00:38:36,760 --> 00:38:40,879
Speaker 3: are beautiful and hilarious and just my champions.

677
00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:42,760
Speaker 2: So I have a very full life.

678
00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:46,560
Speaker 3: You know, I have many many animals, which is all

679
00:38:46,600 --> 00:38:47,960
Speaker 3: I need really.

680
00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:53,440
Speaker 1: And I get the energy of just the stillness and

681
00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:57,280
Speaker 1: the ease, and I think maybe I hope that comes

682
00:38:57,280 --> 00:38:59,680
Speaker 1: with time because I hope to feel that as well.

683
00:38:59,719 --> 00:39:03,360
Speaker 1: But have you what have you really learned in this

684
00:39:03,520 --> 00:39:07,840
Speaker 1: healing process that took you years to actually like believe?

685
00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:17,440
Speaker 3: I think that it's it's easier to attain than we think.

686
00:39:17,719 --> 00:39:21,239
Speaker 3: And then it just requires a kind like what are

687
00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:25,480
Speaker 3: what are the elements that are necessary for me? It's like, okay,

688
00:39:25,520 --> 00:39:28,640
Speaker 3: well I need to train my body to have peace

689
00:39:28,760 --> 00:39:31,360
Speaker 3: and silence so that it's like, you know, I have

690
00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:34,960
Speaker 3: a really strong meditation practice, which is very helpful. And

691
00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:38,560
Speaker 3: it's a practice because you're just practicing every day at

692
00:39:38,560 --> 00:39:42,359
Speaker 3: the same time to do this like exercise where you

693
00:39:42,480 --> 00:39:47,520
Speaker 3: have nothing and but silence and breathing and peace, because

694
00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:49,840
Speaker 3: you may need to recreate it at other points in

695
00:39:49,880 --> 00:39:52,600
Speaker 3: the day. So we practice this every day so we

696
00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:55,080
Speaker 3: can keep going back to a place of like peace,

697
00:39:55,280 --> 00:39:57,759
Speaker 3: so that if I'm out in the world and something's frustrating,

698
00:39:58,120 --> 00:40:00,279
Speaker 3: I can go back there mentally I love that.

699
00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:03,960
Speaker 1: And for someone who has lived such a full, beautiful

700
00:40:04,040 --> 00:40:07,759
Speaker 1: life as still at such an early age, what does

701
00:40:07,800 --> 00:40:10,520
Speaker 1: matter most to you right now during this time, because

702
00:40:10,520 --> 00:40:16,399
Speaker 1: it is a really interesting time in our life, and

703
00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:19,160
Speaker 1: I'm just curious, like, what does matter most to you

704
00:40:19,320 --> 00:40:21,200
Speaker 1: right now in this moment of.

705
00:40:21,239 --> 00:40:24,279
Speaker 3: So much Yeah, there's so much uncertainty. I think what

706
00:40:24,360 --> 00:40:28,120
Speaker 3: really matters is friends, What really matters is art, What

707
00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:32,799
Speaker 3: really matters is animal friends. What matters is peace, you know,

708
00:40:33,040 --> 00:40:36,280
Speaker 3: and enduring peace within and trying to spread peace all around,

709
00:40:38,560 --> 00:40:42,520
Speaker 3: you know, and uh, you know what matters is is

710
00:40:42,719 --> 00:40:47,319
Speaker 3: really how we live in this moment. You know, now

711
00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:51,560
Speaker 3: is a good opportunity for political resistance. Right now is

712
00:40:51,600 --> 00:40:55,080
Speaker 3: a very good opportunity to talk about queerness, to talk

713
00:40:55,120 --> 00:40:56,560
Speaker 3: about feminism.

714
00:40:56,120 --> 00:40:58,319
Speaker 2: To talk about equality.

715
00:40:58,760 --> 00:41:03,000
Speaker 3: You know. So these are important things that important discussions

716
00:41:03,040 --> 00:41:06,640
Speaker 3: that are happening to take our world back from a

717
00:41:06,800 --> 00:41:11,200
Speaker 3: very destructive force. So, you know, it's a lot of stuff.

718
00:41:11,120 --> 00:41:16,480
Speaker 1: And I love that. I can only imagine that in

719
00:41:16,520 --> 00:41:19,120
Speaker 1: a time that feels like so much pain and grief,

720
00:41:19,360 --> 00:41:23,480
Speaker 1: making people laugh helps heal you in the process. Yeah, yeah,

721
00:41:23,520 --> 00:41:27,400
Speaker 1: And I think that's such a beautiful thing. Like what

722
00:41:27,480 --> 00:41:32,600
Speaker 1: I love so much about comedy and sports. There's no AI.

723
00:41:33,200 --> 00:41:36,719
Speaker 1: It is a live performance. Yeah, no one can take

724
00:41:36,760 --> 00:41:39,640
Speaker 1: that away from you. No one can necessarily recreate it

725
00:41:39,680 --> 00:41:45,640
Speaker 1: because it's a human interaction moment. It's just a fucking

726
00:41:45,880 --> 00:41:49,960
Speaker 1: moment to be so present and just drop everything else.

727
00:41:50,960 --> 00:41:53,440
Speaker 1: And how lucky are we that we get to provide

728
00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:54,600
Speaker 1: that for people?

729
00:41:55,040 --> 00:41:55,640
Speaker 2: So lucky.

730
00:41:55,800 --> 00:41:58,120
Speaker 3: It's such a beautiful thing. So I'm so grateful for that.

731
00:41:58,280 --> 00:41:59,919
Speaker 3: So yeah, it's really it's really power.

732
00:42:03,360 --> 00:42:06,560
Speaker 1: This is wide open and I'm your host, Ashlyn Harris.

733
00:42:06,640 --> 00:42:07,520
Speaker 2: We'll be right back.

734
00:42:19,200 --> 00:42:22,160
Speaker 1: What are you still fighting for? Because you've been an advocate,

735
00:42:22,320 --> 00:42:26,640
Speaker 1: like for a very long time. You San Francisco is

736
00:42:26,680 --> 00:42:29,799
Speaker 1: like the hub of everything literally, especially you know when

737
00:42:29,800 --> 00:42:32,400
Speaker 1: you were born and raised there, Like, what are you

738
00:42:32,440 --> 00:42:36,160
Speaker 1: still fighting for? And what have you finally realized? You

739
00:42:36,280 --> 00:42:37,160
Speaker 1: just have to release.

740
00:42:37,960 --> 00:42:42,160
Speaker 3: I have to release this idea that it's all going

741
00:42:42,200 --> 00:42:45,520
Speaker 3: to be fixed in one day. It's this idea that

742
00:42:45,560 --> 00:42:47,920
Speaker 3: there will be a point where everything is going to

743
00:42:47,920 --> 00:42:49,799
Speaker 3: be better. There will always be things that we need

744
00:42:49,840 --> 00:42:52,319
Speaker 3: to work on, and that's just because of society is

745
00:42:52,400 --> 00:42:54,040
Speaker 3: huge and there's a lot of things that are going

746
00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:56,359
Speaker 3: to be necessary to take care of but.

747
00:42:56,360 --> 00:42:58,640
Speaker 2: What I still want to fight for is fairness.

748
00:42:58,760 --> 00:43:01,360
Speaker 3: Fairness for people, artis for people to live, and for

749
00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:05,040
Speaker 3: certain resources like you know, the gayteen suicide hotlines I

750
00:43:05,040 --> 00:43:07,200
Speaker 3: would like to fight for. You know, that's a very

751
00:43:07,200 --> 00:43:12,480
Speaker 3: small thing, but it means so much. The symbolic meaning of.

752
00:43:12,360 --> 00:43:14,000
Speaker 2: That is so huge.

753
00:43:14,560 --> 00:43:17,920
Speaker 3: So something like that, I think we really need to

754
00:43:18,840 --> 00:43:22,279
Speaker 3: uh recreate that for our community. And I know that's

755
00:43:22,320 --> 00:43:24,800
Speaker 3: happening with the Trevor Project and people like that fighting

756
00:43:24,840 --> 00:43:26,960
Speaker 3: for it. But you know, stuff like that, like we

757
00:43:27,000 --> 00:43:29,920
Speaker 3: need to fight for queer youth, That's always going to

758
00:43:29,960 --> 00:43:31,840
Speaker 3: be something that's incredibly important to me.

759
00:43:32,160 --> 00:43:34,440
Speaker 1: I love that and I couldn't agree more. And it's

760
00:43:35,440 --> 00:43:40,960
Speaker 1: it's it's been hard to watch the vitriol of like

761
00:43:41,440 --> 00:43:44,080
Speaker 1: what people are willing to do to do to harm

762
00:43:44,120 --> 00:43:47,040
Speaker 1: their neighbor. Yeah, and it really comes from a place

763
00:43:47,120 --> 00:43:48,359
Speaker 1: of like fear of not.

764
00:43:48,480 --> 00:43:54,280
Speaker 2: Knowing and misunderstanding, you're the bravery of knowing. Yeah.

765
00:43:54,520 --> 00:43:56,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's a true, a true thing. I

766
00:43:56,600 --> 00:44:01,880
Speaker 1: think people in our community are so open just to

767
00:44:02,080 --> 00:44:05,839
Speaker 1: just say the things and live life and color that

768
00:44:05,920 --> 00:44:08,759
Speaker 1: it makes other people who do want to check the

769
00:44:08,760 --> 00:44:12,040
Speaker 1: boxes feel uncomfortable and feel shamed. That they can't do

770
00:44:12,160 --> 00:44:12,760
Speaker 1: the same.

771
00:44:12,840 --> 00:44:14,200
Speaker 2: Right, that's true.

772
00:44:14,520 --> 00:44:17,640
Speaker 1: So it's it's a really interesting thing. And I always

773
00:44:17,680 --> 00:44:21,640
Speaker 1: ask this question to every guest, So I want to

774
00:44:21,640 --> 00:44:24,400
Speaker 1: ask you this before before we time is up and

775
00:44:24,440 --> 00:44:27,400
Speaker 1: we have to go. But what is the one moment

776
00:44:27,640 --> 00:44:32,640
Speaker 1: in your life, whether professionally or personally, that has really

777
00:44:32,680 --> 00:44:36,680
Speaker 1: split you wide open, that changed everything for you, that

778
00:44:37,080 --> 00:44:41,200
Speaker 1: really made you open your eyes up and be like wow.

779
00:44:42,440 --> 00:44:45,759
Speaker 2: I don't know. I mean, I think it's mostly.

780
00:44:47,160 --> 00:44:52,040
Speaker 3: That it's still happening, like that there's still battles to

781
00:44:53,480 --> 00:44:56,800
Speaker 3: be one, there's still things that need to be changed,

782
00:44:56,840 --> 00:44:59,680
Speaker 3: you know, Like I've been going to like punk rock shows.

783
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:03,520
Speaker 3: I used to go to rock against Reagan in the eighties,

784
00:45:03,640 --> 00:45:06,400
Speaker 3: like these like things where we were like still protesting

785
00:45:07,680 --> 00:45:09,919
Speaker 3: with all of our might. And then through the Bush era,

786
00:45:10,080 --> 00:45:12,960
Speaker 3: I was like protesting. So I got protested so much

787
00:45:12,960 --> 00:45:16,560
Speaker 3: I was disinvited to the Democratic National Convention in two

788
00:45:16,600 --> 00:45:19,680
Speaker 3: thousand and four, Like there was like I was like

789
00:45:19,800 --> 00:45:24,400
Speaker 3: protesting so much, Like I was so and that I

790
00:45:24,560 --> 00:45:28,239
Speaker 3: thought that we would be pasted it by now you

791
00:45:28,239 --> 00:45:31,360
Speaker 3: know that we and yet we're dealing with some of

792
00:45:31,400 --> 00:45:36,680
Speaker 3: the worst you know, fascism that I've ever seen. So

793
00:45:36,719 --> 00:45:39,200
Speaker 3: I think that it's the fact that it's not over,

794
00:45:39,280 --> 00:45:43,400
Speaker 3: that it continued, that's still the enormity of the battle,

795
00:45:43,480 --> 00:45:46,200
Speaker 3: but it still keeps you fighting, you know. So it

796
00:45:46,239 --> 00:45:48,600
Speaker 3: doesn't make me want to give up, but it's it's astonishing.

797
00:45:48,880 --> 00:45:51,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's the thing that we have to

798
00:45:51,160 --> 00:45:54,600
Speaker 1: continue to spread the message. It's I love that you

799
00:45:54,640 --> 00:45:57,719
Speaker 1: say that. It's you know, so much as moving and

800
00:45:57,800 --> 00:46:02,160
Speaker 1: so much is happening, and I think people are retreating

801
00:46:02,239 --> 00:46:06,120
Speaker 1: so much in fear and we need We've been here before,

802
00:46:06,200 --> 00:46:10,440
Speaker 1: maybe in a different form, but like rebellion and protech

803
00:46:10,560 --> 00:46:14,000
Speaker 1: like that is the layer and foundation our community has

804
00:46:14,040 --> 00:46:16,799
Speaker 1: been built on. And now is not the time to

805
00:46:16,920 --> 00:46:20,560
Speaker 1: roll over and like push this news button just say okay,

806
00:46:20,680 --> 00:46:24,680
Speaker 1: I'll wait till this four year term is up. It's like, no,

807
00:46:24,840 --> 00:46:28,799
Speaker 1: we cannot give into that type of power. Like we

808
00:46:29,040 --> 00:46:32,840
Speaker 1: have the ability to change it, and it should ignite

809
00:46:32,920 --> 00:46:37,960
Speaker 1: and excite us to be energized to fight like hell

810
00:46:38,040 --> 00:46:42,680
Speaker 1: and find solutions instead of just what I constantly feel

811
00:46:42,800 --> 00:46:45,799
Speaker 1: is people are burnt out and fatigued from all the

812
00:46:45,840 --> 00:46:49,520
Speaker 1: fucking shenanigans that we see in our algorithm and all

813
00:46:49,520 --> 00:46:53,319
Speaker 1: the antics we see on every social media site and

814
00:46:53,400 --> 00:46:56,000
Speaker 1: news site, and I'm like, that is that but that

815
00:46:56,160 --> 00:46:59,360
Speaker 1: is the game plan. That is the point, and what

816
00:46:59,400 --> 00:47:00,520
Speaker 1: are we going to do about it?

817
00:47:01,160 --> 00:47:01,600
Speaker 2: That's right?

818
00:47:02,280 --> 00:47:05,359
Speaker 1: So I love I love that about you and it's

819
00:47:05,400 --> 00:47:07,879
Speaker 1: as I could learn a lot from it as well.

820
00:47:07,920 --> 00:47:11,840
Speaker 1: And I want to be a legacy to me is

821
00:47:11,920 --> 00:47:15,520
Speaker 1: really leaving this this world better than I found it,

822
00:47:16,400 --> 00:47:20,319
Speaker 1: and it's it's not better than I found it. And

823
00:47:20,400 --> 00:47:24,680
Speaker 1: I'm hoping that we continue to like dig deep because

824
00:47:26,400 --> 00:47:27,560
Speaker 1: we got a lot of work to do.

825
00:47:27,840 --> 00:47:28,680
Speaker 2: That's so true.

826
00:47:28,920 --> 00:47:31,400
Speaker 1: We did a lot of work to do. And the

827
00:47:31,480 --> 00:47:33,399
Speaker 1: last thing I'll ask just the light in the load

828
00:47:33,400 --> 00:47:36,799
Speaker 1: a little bit, what like queer shows right now? Are

829
00:47:36,800 --> 00:47:39,359
Speaker 1: you watching have you been watching anything? What is your

830
00:47:39,360 --> 00:47:44,040
Speaker 1: thoughts on like shitty television or reality television? Like are

831
00:47:44,080 --> 00:47:45,640
Speaker 1: you watching the Queer Ultimatum?

832
00:47:45,760 --> 00:47:49,560
Speaker 3: Like Okay, mal should have stayed at home because she

833
00:47:49,840 --> 00:47:51,200
Speaker 3: was really going off.

834
00:47:51,719 --> 00:47:55,680
Speaker 2: I was like actually, also actually.

835
00:47:55,360 --> 00:48:00,359
Speaker 3: And Martika or Martique they I was like, this is

836
00:48:00,920 --> 00:48:03,760
Speaker 3: this is not a contest to whose grandparents died faster?

837
00:48:04,239 --> 00:48:07,520
Speaker 3: Like this is like awful, like and I think that.

838
00:48:08,239 --> 00:48:08,439
Speaker 1: Yeah.

839
00:48:08,560 --> 00:48:11,640
Speaker 3: Marie was like came and she was I'm gonna fight everybody.

840
00:48:12,960 --> 00:48:18,040
Speaker 3: I was like, so the ultimate and then also on

841
00:48:18,120 --> 00:48:20,000
Speaker 3: my algorithm, Vanessa is like.

842
00:48:20,000 --> 00:48:22,200
Speaker 2: Up there from last the first one to go huh.

843
00:48:22,360 --> 00:48:24,600
Speaker 3: You know somebody's life can be ruined when you're on

844
00:48:25,080 --> 00:48:26,239
Speaker 3: reality television.

845
00:48:27,080 --> 00:48:30,920
Speaker 2: Yeah. So yeah. My opinions are, Maurice should have stayed home.

846
00:48:31,400 --> 00:48:31,919
Speaker 1: This is great.

847
00:48:31,960 --> 00:48:33,600
Speaker 2: I do kind of want to eat at.

848
00:48:33,520 --> 00:48:36,120
Speaker 3: Their food truck, though, I know right, I feel like

849
00:48:36,160 --> 00:48:36,920
Speaker 3: it would be busting.

850
00:48:37,200 --> 00:48:38,160
Speaker 2: They would have good food.

851
00:48:38,520 --> 00:48:41,759
Speaker 1: Would you go on a queer show like that?

852
00:48:42,880 --> 00:48:46,600
Speaker 2: I would if I could. Yeah, I mean yeah I would.

853
00:48:46,560 --> 00:48:48,719
Speaker 3: But I don't not that one because I don't have

854
00:48:48,960 --> 00:48:51,120
Speaker 3: a partner. That's I would, you know, so it would

855
00:48:51,120 --> 00:48:52,800
Speaker 3: have to be a different way. Yeah I would, I

856
00:48:52,840 --> 00:48:54,720
Speaker 3: would definitely. I mean that would be interesting.

857
00:48:55,160 --> 00:48:57,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, would that would be cool? We need more like

858
00:48:58,080 --> 00:48:59,400
Speaker 1: Queer Love Island.

859
00:48:59,560 --> 00:49:01,759
Speaker 3: I would love like a Queer Love Island, you know

860
00:49:01,800 --> 00:49:04,879
Speaker 3: where you're because. But I do love ultimating because he's

861
00:49:05,040 --> 00:49:06,719
Speaker 3: very specifically very lesbian.

862
00:49:07,000 --> 00:49:09,759
Speaker 2: Yes, there's something so lesbian about it.

863
00:49:10,440 --> 00:49:14,080
Speaker 1: Serious question. I have to know. Thoughts on the host.

864
00:49:14,400 --> 00:49:18,080
Speaker 3: Well, the host is like, I wish it was Robbie Hoffman.

865
00:49:18,160 --> 00:49:21,080
Speaker 3: I think it should be Robbie Hoffman. I guess like

866
00:49:21,120 --> 00:49:22,600
Speaker 3: I just think it should be a couple.

867
00:49:23,239 --> 00:49:25,799
Speaker 1: But also there was one part she chimed in and

868
00:49:25,840 --> 00:49:27,920
Speaker 1: she was like talking about her husband, and I go,

869
00:49:28,320 --> 00:49:28,799
Speaker 1: I was like.

870
00:49:29,560 --> 00:49:33,080
Speaker 3: Oh, like what I mean, I don't I think she

871
00:49:33,200 --> 00:49:35,359
Speaker 3: I don't really have an opinion about her, and like

872
00:49:35,680 --> 00:49:38,840
Speaker 3: I think she's fine or whatever. But I think that

873
00:49:39,480 --> 00:49:41,640
Speaker 3: they should have two and I think it should be

874
00:49:41,719 --> 00:49:44,080
Speaker 3: a I think it should be a two women. It

875
00:49:44,120 --> 00:49:46,760
Speaker 3: has to be women, has to be it should. Robbie

876
00:49:46,760 --> 00:49:47,960
Speaker 3: Hoffman and Gabby Windy.

877
00:49:47,800 --> 00:49:49,480
Speaker 1: Is a great power couple.

878
00:49:49,840 --> 00:49:54,240
Speaker 3: They're super funny and super beautiful together. So like why

879
00:49:54,280 --> 00:49:57,600
Speaker 3: not you know, like to me, it's a lost opportunity

880
00:49:58,080 --> 00:50:01,960
Speaker 3: to have like a super cool, like very cool couple

881
00:50:03,160 --> 00:50:06,320
Speaker 3: or just mean a lesbian or just you know, somebody

882
00:50:06,320 --> 00:50:08,440
Speaker 3: who was in the life, like who gets it?

883
00:50:08,560 --> 00:50:11,759
Speaker 1: So who can also contribute in a real way on

884
00:50:11,920 --> 00:50:14,720
Speaker 1: queer partnership because it is not the same.

885
00:50:15,360 --> 00:50:16,799
Speaker 2: It's not the same, and it's two.

886
00:50:17,080 --> 00:50:20,200
Speaker 3: I mean, you know, I want like Tig Natar, like

887
00:50:20,280 --> 00:50:23,880
Speaker 3: I want Tig, I want fortune. I want to do it,

888
00:50:23,960 --> 00:50:26,279
Speaker 3: you know, like any of us, we would love to,

889
00:50:26,440 --> 00:50:28,400
Speaker 3: but a couple would be ideal.

890
00:50:29,000 --> 00:50:31,680
Speaker 1: So I do agree with you. I think they have

891
00:50:31,760 --> 00:50:37,760
Speaker 1: to contribute more in a way that is like insightful

892
00:50:37,920 --> 00:50:40,920
Speaker 1: because it's not the same and we I think these

893
00:50:41,400 --> 00:50:44,239
Speaker 1: if you're interacting that close, like that's the least we

894
00:50:44,280 --> 00:50:47,480
Speaker 1: could do. But I agree, I think Robbie and Gabby

895
00:50:47,480 --> 00:50:49,920
Speaker 1: would be absolutely it would be so cute, hilarious.

896
00:50:50,080 --> 00:50:51,640
Speaker 3: Also, I think they should get away from the beach,

897
00:50:51,719 --> 00:50:54,600
Speaker 3: like we should just go to like Pump Springs. Let's

898
00:50:54,600 --> 00:50:58,840
Speaker 3: get rid of the get just like Ebby whatever. But

899
00:50:58,960 --> 00:51:02,600
Speaker 3: I have I love that show and yeah, totally, Oh my.

900
00:51:02,520 --> 00:51:05,879
Speaker 1: Gosh, Well you're you're an absolute dream. Before we go,

901
00:51:06,040 --> 00:51:09,680
Speaker 1: is there anything coming up, anything you are working on

902
00:51:09,840 --> 00:51:12,279
Speaker 1: that you want to tell the audience to come check

903
00:51:12,320 --> 00:51:14,760
Speaker 1: you out? Or anything on the list?

904
00:51:15,080 --> 00:51:18,400
Speaker 3: My new tour, My new tour, it's called Choligarchy. It

905
00:51:18,480 --> 00:51:22,399
Speaker 3: starts in Provincetown on August first. I'll be traveling all

906
00:51:22,440 --> 00:51:24,279
Speaker 3: over the place and you can find out where if

907
00:51:24,280 --> 00:51:26,759
Speaker 3: I'm coming to you at Margaret Show dot com.

908
00:51:26,800 --> 00:51:29,160
Speaker 1: Amazing, Well are you going to be in New York

909
00:51:29,200 --> 00:51:30,000
Speaker 1: because I'm going to be there.

910
00:51:30,080 --> 00:51:31,640
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, I'll be there in November.

911
00:51:32,120 --> 00:51:33,799
Speaker 1: Really okay, well count me in.

912
00:51:33,920 --> 00:51:35,360
Speaker 2: I'm going to get to perfect.

913
00:51:35,440 --> 00:51:38,200
Speaker 1: I can't wait. Well, thank you so much, Margaret for coming.

914
00:51:38,239 --> 00:51:41,120
Speaker 1: Thank you, it's been such a pleasure. Thanks for giving

915
00:51:41,200 --> 00:51:44,320
Speaker 1: us all your tea and insight, and what a beautiful

916
00:51:44,360 --> 00:51:48,640
Speaker 1: life you have just absolutely continued to live the fullest.

917
00:51:48,280 --> 00:51:49,680
Speaker 2: So thank you.

918
00:51:49,920 --> 00:51:56,480
Speaker 1: Thanks for being on Wide Open. Wide Open with Ashland

919
00:51:56,520 --> 00:52:00,319
Speaker 1: Harris is an iHeart women's sports production. You can find

920
00:52:00,400 --> 00:52:04,120
Speaker 1: us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you

921
00:52:04,200 --> 00:52:10,160
Speaker 1: get your podcasts. Our producers are Carmen Borca Correo, Emily Maronoff,

922
00:52:10,480 --> 00:52:16,279
Speaker 1: and Lucy Jones. Production assistants from Malia Aguidello. Our executive

923
00:52:16,320 --> 00:52:20,960
Speaker 1: producers are Jesse Katz, Jenny Kaplan and Emily Rudder. Our

924
00:52:21,120 --> 00:52:25,040
Speaker 1: editors are Jenny Kaplan and Emily Rudder and I'm your host,

925
00:52:25,320 --> 00:52:26,280
Speaker 1: Ashlyn Harris.