1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:05,560 Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on iHeartRadio. 2 00:00:05,120 --> 00:00:07,880 Speaker 2: And welcome back, George, nor with you Neil Donald Walsh 3 00:00:07,880 --> 00:00:09,600 Speaker 2: with us. Author of a number of books in the 4 00:00:09,680 --> 00:00:13,280 Speaker 2: Conversations with God dialogue series, which have been read by 5 00:00:13,320 --> 00:00:17,400 Speaker 2: millions across the planet and has been translated into thirty 6 00:00:17,480 --> 00:00:20,720 Speaker 2: seven languages. Neil is also one of the major authors 7 00:00:20,760 --> 00:00:24,759 Speaker 2: in the New Spirituality movement. Several of his books include 8 00:00:24,760 --> 00:00:28,240 Speaker 2: God Talking, of course the Conversation with God series. Neil, 9 00:00:28,320 --> 00:00:30,000 Speaker 2: welcome back, my friend. Hi you Ben. 10 00:00:30,760 --> 00:00:32,800 Speaker 3: You know I've been doing great, George. Thank you very 11 00:00:32,880 --> 00:00:34,640 Speaker 3: much for asking and I hope it's things that have 12 00:00:34,800 --> 00:00:36,680 Speaker 3: gone well with you as well. 13 00:00:36,880 --> 00:00:40,520 Speaker 2: So far, so good. How long ago did this episode 14 00:00:40,560 --> 00:00:42,800 Speaker 2: with Conversations with God occur for you? 15 00:00:43,400 --> 00:00:48,920 Speaker 3: Interestingly enough, this week watched the thirtieth anniversary The book 16 00:00:48,960 --> 00:00:52,599 Speaker 3: was published on May fifth, nineteen ninety five, so this 17 00:00:52,680 --> 00:00:56,040 Speaker 3: happens to be by coincidence, the thirtieth anniversary of the 18 00:00:56,080 --> 00:00:58,240 Speaker 3: publication of Conversations with God. 19 00:00:58,920 --> 00:01:01,279 Speaker 2: That's amazing. And how down and out were you at 20 00:01:01,280 --> 00:01:01,720 Speaker 2: that time? 21 00:01:01,800 --> 00:01:05,399 Speaker 3: Deal, oh man, George, completely down and out. I was 22 00:01:05,440 --> 00:01:09,760 Speaker 3: out of work, I had lost my relationship, you know, 23 00:01:10,760 --> 00:01:12,840 Speaker 3: I had the worst ten days of my life. My 24 00:01:12,920 --> 00:01:18,319 Speaker 3: relationship with my beloved wife ended. It was not acrimonious. 25 00:01:18,600 --> 00:01:21,199 Speaker 3: We both agreed it just wasn't working. But I didn't 26 00:01:21,240 --> 00:01:23,360 Speaker 3: want to end a relationship. But it ended. So I 27 00:01:23,440 --> 00:01:27,520 Speaker 3: moved out, got a little apartment in someplace. Five days later, George, 28 00:01:27,520 --> 00:01:31,440 Speaker 3: I lost my job the corporation I worked for. Yeah, 29 00:01:31,480 --> 00:01:34,720 Speaker 3: the corporation I worked for had to downsize and I 30 00:01:34,800 --> 00:01:37,720 Speaker 3: was the last person hired, last person in, the first 31 00:01:37,720 --> 00:01:40,600 Speaker 3: person out. So I lost my relationship and lost my 32 00:01:40,760 --> 00:01:43,800 Speaker 3: job in the same five day period. But wait, the 33 00:01:43,880 --> 00:01:47,240 Speaker 3: universe wasn't done with me yet. As I'm driving to 34 00:01:47,360 --> 00:01:49,440 Speaker 3: an interview for another job, I'm certain I'm going to 35 00:01:49,480 --> 00:01:51,640 Speaker 3: get it, because I've got all the qualifications and a 36 00:01:51,680 --> 00:01:54,880 Speaker 3: great letter of recommendation, even from the corporation that just 37 00:01:55,000 --> 00:01:58,120 Speaker 3: let me go. No, I didn't get to the interview. 38 00:01:58,600 --> 00:02:01,840 Speaker 3: An older gentleman turned left into my car as I'm 39 00:02:01,920 --> 00:02:05,440 Speaker 3: driving down the road. We had an incredible, incredible smash up. 40 00:02:05,760 --> 00:02:08,360 Speaker 3: He totaled my car. I wound up with a broken neck, 41 00:02:08,880 --> 00:02:12,760 Speaker 3: rushed to the hospital. Rushed to the hospital, and there 42 00:02:12,760 --> 00:02:14,720 Speaker 3: I'm lying there and the doctor looks at me and 43 00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:18,120 Speaker 3: he says so you should be dead by now. You 44 00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:22,200 Speaker 3: didn't get a hairline fracture. Mister Walsh, You've got a 45 00:02:22,240 --> 00:02:25,480 Speaker 3: three quarter inch of vulsion fracture of the seventh cervical 46 00:02:25,560 --> 00:02:29,880 Speaker 3: vertebrae posteriorly. I remember his words to this day. He said, 47 00:02:30,040 --> 00:02:32,760 Speaker 3: most people with that kind of a fracture die instantly, 48 00:02:33,160 --> 00:02:37,720 Speaker 3: or at the very least suffer irreparable damage to their 49 00:02:37,720 --> 00:02:42,480 Speaker 3: body and paralysis. You have suffered neither. So what do 50 00:02:42,520 --> 00:02:44,240 Speaker 3: you intend to do with the rest of your life? 51 00:02:44,919 --> 00:02:47,440 Speaker 3: This is the doctor telling me this in the emergency room, 52 00:02:47,919 --> 00:02:51,840 Speaker 3: so I'm thinking, Wow, unbelievable. I managed to get through 53 00:02:51,880 --> 00:02:54,640 Speaker 3: that incredible accident. The car was a total wreck, of course, 54 00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:58,320 Speaker 3: it was total so you know, I got You know, 55 00:02:58,440 --> 00:03:00,880 Speaker 3: they put me in what they call a Philadelphia collar, 56 00:03:01,080 --> 00:03:04,400 Speaker 3: plastic device that holds your head up, and the doctor says, 57 00:03:04,720 --> 00:03:06,400 Speaker 3: you're not to take this off for any reason for 58 00:03:06,440 --> 00:03:08,600 Speaker 3: the next year and a half because it's the only 59 00:03:08,639 --> 00:03:11,919 Speaker 3: thing that's holding your head up right now. Oh my god, 60 00:03:12,200 --> 00:03:14,079 Speaker 3: you know, George, no one would hire me. I was 61 00:03:14,120 --> 00:03:16,760 Speaker 3: going to interview after interview after interview, and I was 62 00:03:17,040 --> 00:03:20,760 Speaker 3: I had all the qualifications. Finally, in my seventh interview, 63 00:03:21,080 --> 00:03:22,600 Speaker 3: The guy looked at me and said, mister wassh, I 64 00:03:22,639 --> 00:03:24,280 Speaker 3: gotta be honest with you. We'd hire you in a 65 00:03:24,360 --> 00:03:28,240 Speaker 3: minute under normal circumstances, but you're wearing a therapeutic device 66 00:03:28,320 --> 00:03:30,720 Speaker 3: around your neck. That means that you have some kind 67 00:03:30,720 --> 00:03:33,720 Speaker 3: of a handicap. Off something's going on with you, and 68 00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:36,400 Speaker 3: you know, one wrong move on the job. We're paying 69 00:03:36,440 --> 00:03:39,360 Speaker 3: your hospital bills, your medical bills for the next ten years. 70 00:03:39,720 --> 00:03:43,120 Speaker 3: You come back to us when you're all healed and 71 00:03:43,720 --> 00:03:47,920 Speaker 3: a hole, and we hire you in thirty seconds. So Noah, 72 00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:52,120 Speaker 3: I couldn't get a job anywhere. I lost my opportunity 73 00:03:52,720 --> 00:03:55,040 Speaker 3: to live in that one room apartment that I have 74 00:03:55,320 --> 00:03:58,440 Speaker 3: because I couldn't pay the rent. I ran out of 75 00:03:58,440 --> 00:04:01,600 Speaker 3: my savings after a few months, and you know, I 76 00:04:02,000 --> 00:04:04,360 Speaker 3: couldn't pay the rent there, so the guy evicted me. 77 00:04:04,680 --> 00:04:07,880 Speaker 3: I'm now living on the sidewalk, George. I'm living on 78 00:04:07,920 --> 00:04:11,080 Speaker 3: the street, going from person to person with my hand 79 00:04:11,120 --> 00:04:13,480 Speaker 3: out asking for a few coins so that I could 80 00:04:13,520 --> 00:04:16,200 Speaker 3: eat that day. And I lived that way, not for 81 00:04:16,240 --> 00:04:18,320 Speaker 3: a couple of bad weeks or a rough month or two, 82 00:04:18,880 --> 00:04:23,880 Speaker 3: but for one solid year of my life. That's when 83 00:04:23,880 --> 00:04:27,120 Speaker 3: I finally, when I finally got a part time job somewhere. 84 00:04:27,720 --> 00:04:30,320 Speaker 3: That was a year after, you know, and I told 85 00:04:30,320 --> 00:04:32,680 Speaker 3: the guy, look, I'm taking this collar off in about 86 00:04:32,680 --> 00:04:35,440 Speaker 3: three or four months. There's nothing going on here. I'm fine. 87 00:04:36,040 --> 00:04:39,640 Speaker 3: So I got a job and I managed to make 88 00:04:39,760 --> 00:04:41,760 Speaker 3: enough money. I wasn't making a lot, but at least 89 00:04:41,760 --> 00:04:44,120 Speaker 3: I had an income again, and I could afford a 90 00:04:44,680 --> 00:04:48,760 Speaker 3: little apartment, just a one room flat. And that's when 91 00:04:48,760 --> 00:04:50,599 Speaker 3: I woke up at four twenty three in the morning 92 00:04:50,600 --> 00:04:53,320 Speaker 3: one day and I thought to myself, what is it 93 00:04:53,400 --> 00:04:56,080 Speaker 3: I don't understand here about life? What have I done 94 00:04:56,480 --> 00:04:59,719 Speaker 3: to deserve a life of such continuing struggle? And was 95 00:04:59,760 --> 00:05:02,719 Speaker 3: it to make life work? Somebody tell me the rules? 96 00:05:03,200 --> 00:05:05,000 Speaker 3: So I sat down. I know this is going to 97 00:05:05,040 --> 00:05:08,080 Speaker 3: sound silly, but I sat down. There was a happened 98 00:05:08,120 --> 00:05:10,040 Speaker 3: to be a yellow legal pat on the coffee table. 99 00:05:10,240 --> 00:05:12,039 Speaker 3: I guess I was making the lists of things I 100 00:05:12,080 --> 00:05:15,000 Speaker 3: wanted to do whatever, and I started writing an angry 101 00:05:15,080 --> 00:05:17,560 Speaker 3: letter to God. I know it sounds silly, but I just, 102 00:05:17,600 --> 00:05:19,640 Speaker 3: you know, I just I don't know what I was thinking. 103 00:05:19,640 --> 00:05:22,039 Speaker 3: I was just, I guess, a form of self therapy. 104 00:05:22,320 --> 00:05:25,600 Speaker 3: But I'm writing this letter, Dear God, what does it 105 00:05:25,640 --> 00:05:28,120 Speaker 3: take to make life work and all the questions I 106 00:05:28,240 --> 00:05:32,160 Speaker 3: just asked here, and you know, of course I didn't 107 00:05:32,200 --> 00:05:36,400 Speaker 3: expect to get any kind of reply, But George, I 108 00:05:36,480 --> 00:05:41,080 Speaker 3: began hearing words in my mind. In my mind, I. 109 00:05:41,040 --> 00:05:46,240 Speaker 2: Began at that moment, yeah, yeah, yes. 110 00:05:46,320 --> 00:05:52,360 Speaker 3: As I was continuing to write the letter, I re yeah, 111 00:05:52,520 --> 00:05:55,320 Speaker 3: I heard I heard a voice in my head saying, Neil, 112 00:05:55,760 --> 00:05:58,280 Speaker 3: do you really want answers to all of these questions? 113 00:05:58,640 --> 00:06:02,000 Speaker 3: Or are you just venting? And I'm thinking, to myself, 114 00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:06,520 Speaker 3: is what's going on? What is? But I laughed. I thought, okay, 115 00:06:06,640 --> 00:06:09,960 Speaker 3: I'm talking to myself here, But I said I am venting. 116 00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:11,760 Speaker 3: But if you've got answers, said sure as hell, I'd 117 00:06:11,760 --> 00:06:14,240 Speaker 3: like to know what they are. And then this voice 118 00:06:14,279 --> 00:06:16,480 Speaker 3: in my mind said, you are sure as hell, Neil, 119 00:06:17,000 --> 00:06:19,720 Speaker 3: about a lot of things, but wouldn't you rather be 120 00:06:19,839 --> 00:06:24,200 Speaker 3: sure as heaven? And I'm thinking, okay, what's that supposed 121 00:06:24,200 --> 00:06:27,960 Speaker 3: to me? And the voice said, take this down. I'm 122 00:06:27,960 --> 00:06:31,560 Speaker 3: going to answer your questions. So you know what, I 123 00:06:31,600 --> 00:06:34,960 Speaker 3: wrote down what I was hearing in my mind. After 124 00:06:35,160 --> 00:06:37,920 Speaker 3: this went on not for a minute or two, but 125 00:06:37,960 --> 00:06:41,919 Speaker 3: for the next six hours. And fortunately it was a 126 00:06:41,920 --> 00:06:45,440 Speaker 3: Saturday and I wasn't working, So I was going through 127 00:06:45,480 --> 00:06:49,599 Speaker 3: the morning time on my weekend day off, writing what 128 00:06:49,640 --> 00:06:52,359 Speaker 3: I was hearing in my mind and asking other questions. 129 00:06:52,800 --> 00:06:55,440 Speaker 3: And before I knew it, believe it or not, I 130 00:06:55,480 --> 00:06:59,880 Speaker 3: was involved in an on paper dialogue with this voice 131 00:07:00,040 --> 00:07:03,760 Speaker 3: that I ultimately identified as God because of the kind 132 00:07:03,760 --> 00:07:05,240 Speaker 3: of answers that I was being given. 133 00:07:07,279 --> 00:07:10,640 Speaker 2: Were you particularly spiritual before that, Neil. 134 00:07:11,240 --> 00:07:14,320 Speaker 3: No, No, you know, I had a belief in God. 135 00:07:14,480 --> 00:07:16,080 Speaker 3: I'm not going to say that I was an atheist. 136 00:07:16,160 --> 00:07:20,120 Speaker 3: I wasn't an atheist or an agnostic. I had a 137 00:07:20,160 --> 00:07:22,880 Speaker 3: belief that there was a higher power, which is, by 138 00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:26,559 Speaker 3: the way true for around eighty percent. Surveys worldwide show 139 00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:29,080 Speaker 3: that about eighty percent of the people believe in some 140 00:07:29,200 --> 00:07:31,840 Speaker 3: form of higher power. And I guess I would say 141 00:07:31,840 --> 00:07:33,720 Speaker 3: that that I had a belief in a higher power. 142 00:07:33,760 --> 00:07:37,240 Speaker 3: But I wasn't spiritual. I was paying no attention whatsoever 143 00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:40,960 Speaker 3: to what I now call my soul and to the 144 00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:43,440 Speaker 3: spiritual aspect of my life. I didn't go to church, 145 00:07:43,480 --> 00:07:45,960 Speaker 3: I didn't go to synagogue, I didn't go to a mosque. 146 00:07:45,960 --> 00:07:49,680 Speaker 3: I had no spiritual practice whatsoever. I was just living 147 00:07:49,760 --> 00:07:50,520 Speaker 3: my life. 148 00:07:51,480 --> 00:07:53,880 Speaker 2: What possessed you to decide to put this in a 149 00:07:53,880 --> 00:07:55,840 Speaker 2: book form and then get it out. 150 00:07:57,320 --> 00:08:01,280 Speaker 3: I was told I was having this this conversation. I 151 00:08:01,320 --> 00:08:05,160 Speaker 3: was writing answers, asking questions, writing answers. The answers were 152 00:08:05,160 --> 00:08:08,360 Speaker 3: fascinating me. But at one point the voice in my 153 00:08:08,480 --> 00:08:11,800 Speaker 3: mind said, you will make of this one day a 154 00:08:11,840 --> 00:08:16,160 Speaker 3: book and it will be accessed by many people. And 155 00:08:16,240 --> 00:08:19,760 Speaker 3: I thought to myself, yeah, right, of course, there's no 156 00:08:19,840 --> 00:08:23,080 Speaker 3: publisher in the country that's going to publish a book 157 00:08:23,080 --> 00:08:25,160 Speaker 3: because a guy claims to be talking to God and 158 00:08:25,160 --> 00:08:27,400 Speaker 3: it's not going to happen. But then I thought, wait 159 00:08:27,400 --> 00:08:30,760 Speaker 3: a minute, Wait a minute, this is a perfect way 160 00:08:31,320 --> 00:08:33,839 Speaker 3: to find out whether there's any value in what I'm 161 00:08:33,880 --> 00:08:36,080 Speaker 3: receiving with, there's any truth to what's going on here. 162 00:08:36,280 --> 00:08:38,600 Speaker 3: I'm going to send this to a publisher and see 163 00:08:38,600 --> 00:08:42,240 Speaker 3: what happens. So I made xerox copies of my handwritten 164 00:08:42,280 --> 00:08:45,520 Speaker 3: notes there, pages and pages and pages, and I have 165 00:08:45,600 --> 00:08:48,720 Speaker 3: made xerox copies, three copies and sent them off to 166 00:08:48,880 --> 00:08:52,760 Speaker 3: three different publishers whose books I found in a local 167 00:08:52,760 --> 00:08:55,920 Speaker 3: bookstore in the self help section. I thought, well, we'll 168 00:08:55,960 --> 00:09:00,480 Speaker 3: see what happens. By golly. Two weeks later, a call 169 00:09:00,559 --> 00:09:03,240 Speaker 3: from one of those publishers. It was not a major 170 00:09:03,240 --> 00:09:06,640 Speaker 3: publishing company, was a small independent publishing company. But they 171 00:09:06,679 --> 00:09:09,320 Speaker 3: called me and they said, hey, we like what we've 172 00:09:09,360 --> 00:09:11,840 Speaker 3: gotten here. We like what you've sent us. We're going 173 00:09:11,920 --> 00:09:15,959 Speaker 3: to put this out. I said, you're kidding me. No, no, 174 00:09:16,080 --> 00:09:18,560 Speaker 3: they said, no, it's a great work of fiction. People 175 00:09:18,600 --> 00:09:19,880 Speaker 3: are going to love it about a guy who has 176 00:09:19,880 --> 00:09:22,840 Speaker 3: an argument with God. I said, wait a minute, this 177 00:09:22,880 --> 00:09:24,679 Speaker 3: is not a work of fiction. You can't publish it. 178 00:09:26,400 --> 00:09:28,960 Speaker 3: And he said, are you trying to tell me you 179 00:09:28,960 --> 00:09:32,080 Speaker 3: think this actually happened. We thought you just wrote this 180 00:09:32,160 --> 00:09:34,480 Speaker 3: up as a fictional story about a guy who argues 181 00:09:34,520 --> 00:09:38,000 Speaker 3: with God. No, I said, excuse me, this is my 182 00:09:38,120 --> 00:09:43,440 Speaker 3: actual experience. The publisher said, well, we can publish it 183 00:09:43,440 --> 00:09:45,800 Speaker 3: as a nonfiction book, but it's not going to reach 184 00:09:45,880 --> 00:09:49,480 Speaker 3: five hundred people because nobody's going to run out and 185 00:09:49,480 --> 00:09:51,760 Speaker 3: buy a book because some guy up in Oregon claims 186 00:09:51,760 --> 00:09:53,760 Speaker 3: to be talking to God. It's not going to happen. 187 00:09:54,520 --> 00:09:57,520 Speaker 3: But we'll put it out because you know the material 188 00:09:57,559 --> 00:09:59,560 Speaker 3: that is interesting. Well, you know, we'll give it a 189 00:09:59,600 --> 00:10:01,960 Speaker 3: try and see what happens. And they put the book 190 00:10:01,960 --> 00:10:06,559 Speaker 3: out and he was right. It didn't reach five hundred people. 191 00:10:08,120 --> 00:10:14,160 Speaker 3: It reached five million, exactly, not bragging, just saying, were 192 00:10:14,160 --> 00:10:18,920 Speaker 3: you in shock? Oh? Was I ever? You know, I 193 00:10:18,920 --> 00:10:22,120 Speaker 3: can remember the day. You know. I wasn't tracking by 194 00:10:22,160 --> 00:10:23,440 Speaker 3: the way I should. I got to tell you this 195 00:10:23,480 --> 00:10:25,719 Speaker 3: because I sent it to a publisher. I thought, well, 196 00:10:25,760 --> 00:10:27,840 Speaker 3: you know what, what will be? It will be. We'll 197 00:10:27,840 --> 00:10:30,800 Speaker 3: see what happens. You know. I was shocked that the 198 00:10:30,800 --> 00:10:33,600 Speaker 3: book was even published, but I thought, well, you know, 199 00:10:34,000 --> 00:10:36,000 Speaker 3: let it go at that. So I went on with 200 00:10:36,120 --> 00:10:39,400 Speaker 3: my life. I wasn't calling the publisher every week to 201 00:10:39,520 --> 00:10:42,240 Speaker 3: track the sales. I wasn't. I wasn't, you know, going 202 00:10:42,320 --> 00:10:44,040 Speaker 3: to look at that. I didn't. I didn't want to 203 00:10:44,040 --> 00:10:49,840 Speaker 3: get caught up in that week to week you know activity, 204 00:10:50,000 --> 00:10:53,560 Speaker 3: So I didn't know. Then one day my doorbell rang 205 00:10:54,320 --> 00:10:57,400 Speaker 3: and there was a florist delivering a huge bouquet of 206 00:10:57,400 --> 00:11:01,040 Speaker 3: flowers with a small package. And I opened the package. 207 00:11:01,040 --> 00:11:02,600 Speaker 3: I said, thank you very much. I thought, I wonder 208 00:11:02,600 --> 00:11:06,080 Speaker 3: who's sending me flowers? I was living, you know, I 209 00:11:06,160 --> 00:11:10,240 Speaker 3: wasn't you know. It wasn't my birthday, I wasn't a holiday. 210 00:11:10,280 --> 00:11:13,720 Speaker 3: Why would I get flowers? And I opened a small 211 00:11:13,800 --> 00:11:17,120 Speaker 3: package and there was a note inside it was from 212 00:11:17,120 --> 00:11:21,360 Speaker 3: my publisher, and the package was a plaque, a wooden 213 00:11:21,480 --> 00:11:25,400 Speaker 3: plaque with a brass plate attached to the plaque, and 214 00:11:25,440 --> 00:11:31,079 Speaker 3: on the brass plate George was an engraving. It said, 215 00:11:31,800 --> 00:11:35,880 Speaker 3: commemorating one million sales conversations with God. 216 00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:37,199 Speaker 2: How beautiful? 217 00:11:37,720 --> 00:11:41,439 Speaker 3: I thought, are you what? I had no concept. No, 218 00:11:41,559 --> 00:11:44,600 Speaker 3: I wasn't even I couldn't believe it. You could have 219 00:11:44,720 --> 00:11:48,760 Speaker 3: knocked me over with a feather. I had no concept 220 00:11:48,800 --> 00:11:52,520 Speaker 3: at all what was going on. And then a few 221 00:11:52,880 --> 00:11:57,760 Speaker 3: months after that, this small publishing house sold the book 222 00:11:57,880 --> 00:12:02,760 Speaker 3: to a major publishing house, a rather large company, international 223 00:12:02,840 --> 00:12:06,520 Speaker 3: publisher the Putnam people. And the Putnam people bought the 224 00:12:06,600 --> 00:12:11,800 Speaker 3: book from this small East Coast publisher, translated it into 225 00:12:11,880 --> 00:12:19,080 Speaker 3: thirty seven languages, and began distributing it globally. Again, not bragging, 226 00:12:19,360 --> 00:12:22,840 Speaker 3: just saying, that's what happened, and that led you to 227 00:12:22,880 --> 00:12:26,880 Speaker 3: write the other ones as part of the series. Well, 228 00:12:26,920 --> 00:12:31,600 Speaker 3: because George, I got a call from that publishing company 229 00:12:31,600 --> 00:12:35,480 Speaker 3: in New York. They said, you know, we're getting a 230 00:12:35,520 --> 00:12:39,760 Speaker 3: tremendous amount of interest in this work that you put out. 231 00:12:40,120 --> 00:12:44,040 Speaker 3: Do you have any more like this at home? I said, well, 232 00:12:44,040 --> 00:12:47,720 Speaker 3: you know, I'm still having the experience. The experience is 233 00:12:47,760 --> 00:12:51,600 Speaker 3: going on. It hasn't stopped. They said, send us whatever 234 00:12:51,679 --> 00:12:56,400 Speaker 3: you've got. There's a real hunger out there for what 235 00:12:56,440 --> 00:12:59,480 Speaker 3: you're writing. I said, okay, fair enough, So I sent 236 00:12:59,559 --> 00:13:03,559 Speaker 3: them more material and more material, and ultimately, as the 237 00:13:03,640 --> 00:13:08,760 Speaker 3: years went by, nine books over three thousand pages of 238 00:13:08,840 --> 00:13:11,680 Speaker 3: dialogue had been produced. Good for you. 239 00:13:12,440 --> 00:13:16,040 Speaker 2: What would you say is the biggest message that you've 240 00:13:16,080 --> 00:13:18,120 Speaker 2: got from that higher power? 241 00:13:19,600 --> 00:13:23,560 Speaker 3: I can give it to you in five words, God 242 00:13:23,640 --> 00:13:27,800 Speaker 3: said to me. God said to me, you've got me 243 00:13:27,920 --> 00:13:33,559 Speaker 3: all wrong. What did he mean by it all wrong? 244 00:13:33,640 --> 00:13:39,400 Speaker 3: What she meant was, we have ideas about God that 245 00:13:39,480 --> 00:13:45,199 Speaker 3: are totally inaccurate. You know, the simplest, the most simplistic idea, 246 00:13:45,240 --> 00:13:49,679 Speaker 3: God is a guy in the sky. God is obviously male, 247 00:13:49,760 --> 00:13:54,200 Speaker 3: couldn't couldn't have been female, or have any particular characteristic 248 00:13:54,320 --> 00:13:58,640 Speaker 3: other than that, you know, and so. But beyond such 249 00:13:58,679 --> 00:14:03,679 Speaker 3: a simplistic a piece of information, what we think about 250 00:14:03,720 --> 00:14:05,640 Speaker 3: God is that we think that God, or at least 251 00:14:05,720 --> 00:14:08,680 Speaker 3: those people who believe in God, most of those people 252 00:14:08,720 --> 00:14:12,079 Speaker 3: who believe in God, believe in a God who is judgmental, condemning, 253 00:14:12,120 --> 00:14:15,280 Speaker 3: and punishing. Now that's not true of everybody who believes 254 00:14:15,280 --> 00:14:17,839 Speaker 3: in God, but it is true of the vast majority 255 00:14:17,880 --> 00:14:25,200 Speaker 3: of God believers. They believe in a higher power that judges, condemns, 256 00:14:25,200 --> 00:14:28,240 Speaker 3: and punishes us if we don't follow the rules. What rules, Well, 257 00:14:28,240 --> 00:14:32,160 Speaker 3: that depends on what faith tradition you have embraced in 258 00:14:32,200 --> 00:14:35,920 Speaker 3: your life. If you're Catholic or Christian, or Jewish or Muslim, 259 00:14:36,120 --> 00:14:38,200 Speaker 3: or if you don't belong to any religion but you're 260 00:14:38,240 --> 00:14:41,440 Speaker 3: a Buddhist, or maybe you know who knows what, but 261 00:14:41,520 --> 00:14:43,720 Speaker 3: you know which, you got to follow the rules because 262 00:14:43,720 --> 00:14:45,360 Speaker 3: if you don't follow the rules, you're going to Hell. 263 00:14:45,920 --> 00:14:48,960 Speaker 3: And I was taught this as a child. I grew 264 00:14:49,080 --> 00:14:52,240 Speaker 3: up in a Catholic family, and this is I don't 265 00:14:52,240 --> 00:14:54,720 Speaker 3: want to be disparaging to Catholics, but I grew up 266 00:14:54,880 --> 00:14:57,800 Speaker 3: believing in a God who would, in fact send me 267 00:14:58,400 --> 00:15:02,160 Speaker 3: to everlasting damnation if I did so much as miss 268 00:15:02,240 --> 00:15:05,600 Speaker 3: Mass one Sunday in my life without a good excuse. 269 00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:09,800 Speaker 3: That's the God I grew up with. So what God said, 270 00:15:10,520 --> 00:15:12,800 Speaker 3: what God meant when she said you got me all wrong? 271 00:15:13,240 --> 00:15:17,520 Speaker 3: He was telling us, look, you're trying to love. You 272 00:15:17,600 --> 00:15:21,120 Speaker 3: want to love this higher power, and you want to 273 00:15:21,160 --> 00:15:23,920 Speaker 3: fear the higher power. At the same time, You're mixing 274 00:15:24,040 --> 00:15:26,160 Speaker 3: love and fear in the same package, and it's not 275 00:15:26,360 --> 00:15:29,480 Speaker 3: going to work. You've got me all wrong. 276 00:15:31,400 --> 00:15:35,120 Speaker 2: I've always questioned part of the Bible, Neil, where they 277 00:15:35,160 --> 00:15:37,240 Speaker 2: portray God as being so violent. 278 00:15:39,480 --> 00:15:41,200 Speaker 3: Yeah, an eye for an eye and a tooth for 279 00:15:41,240 --> 00:15:45,160 Speaker 3: a tooth, you bet. Yeah. God has been portrayed as violent, 280 00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:47,960 Speaker 3: and not only in the Bible, but in many other 281 00:15:48,040 --> 00:15:52,000 Speaker 3: faith traditions as well. As I mentioned a moment ago, 282 00:15:52,400 --> 00:15:59,600 Speaker 3: we have been told about a higher power that is angry, violent, retributive, condemning, 283 00:15:59,720 --> 00:16:03,120 Speaker 3: and under shape. And what God said to me was, Neil, 284 00:16:04,360 --> 00:16:09,800 Speaker 3: I'm none of that, none of that. And so I've 285 00:16:09,840 --> 00:16:13,640 Speaker 3: come to a new definition of God, the two word definition. 286 00:16:14,360 --> 00:16:17,800 Speaker 3: You know, people have theologists for centuries have been trying 287 00:16:17,800 --> 00:16:19,840 Speaker 3: to figure out a way to define God in a 288 00:16:19,880 --> 00:16:23,320 Speaker 3: way that people could grasp and could understand. I was 289 00:16:23,320 --> 00:16:26,120 Speaker 3: given a two word definition of God. I said, okay, God, 290 00:16:26,440 --> 00:16:29,720 Speaker 3: give me your definition of yourself. And he said to 291 00:16:29,840 --> 00:16:37,160 Speaker 3: words pure love, the essence or the energy that you 292 00:16:37,200 --> 00:16:41,600 Speaker 3: would call pure love. I said, wow. But everyone says that, 293 00:16:41,680 --> 00:16:44,240 Speaker 3: you know, God has loved All religions teach that God 294 00:16:44,320 --> 00:16:47,920 Speaker 3: is loved. And the answer I got was that's true. 295 00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:50,840 Speaker 3: Religions teach that God is loved, but not that God 296 00:16:50,920 --> 00:16:55,160 Speaker 3: is pure love. Okay, I said, what's the difference. The 297 00:16:55,240 --> 00:17:04,720 Speaker 3: difference is the pure love needs requires and demands nothing 298 00:17:04,920 --> 00:17:10,280 Speaker 3: in return. We can't even love the person. We can't 299 00:17:10,320 --> 00:17:12,280 Speaker 3: even love the person on the pillow next to us 300 00:17:12,359 --> 00:17:16,000 Speaker 3: that way, much less imagine a God who loves us 301 00:17:16,040 --> 00:17:16,480 Speaker 3: that way. 302 00:17:17,359 --> 00:17:20,240 Speaker 2: How much did you learn? How much did you change 303 00:17:21,080 --> 00:17:24,480 Speaker 2: from this episode? 304 00:17:25,720 --> 00:17:30,000 Speaker 3: I changed dramatically, George. I don't like to make a great, 305 00:17:30,040 --> 00:17:32,199 Speaker 3: big story out of it, but of course changed my 306 00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:35,520 Speaker 3: whole life. I changed the reason that I do what 307 00:17:35,600 --> 00:17:39,040 Speaker 3: I do, the choices that I make. You know, my 308 00:17:39,119 --> 00:17:43,119 Speaker 3: whole purpose in life became entirely different from what it 309 00:17:43,200 --> 00:17:47,720 Speaker 3: was prior to this experience. And what did I learn? 310 00:17:48,119 --> 00:17:53,439 Speaker 3: I learned an enormous amount about what life is, about 311 00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:56,840 Speaker 3: who we really are, what happens to us after we 312 00:17:56,880 --> 00:17:59,640 Speaker 3: do the thing that we call die. And I learned 313 00:17:59,640 --> 00:18:01,760 Speaker 3: about the purpose of life, at least as I was 314 00:18:02,440 --> 00:18:06,399 Speaker 3: given to understand it. And I learned how to become 315 00:18:08,200 --> 00:18:14,960 Speaker 3: a real person and not this manufactured personality that I 316 00:18:14,960 --> 00:18:17,160 Speaker 3: had created in order to get through life. 317 00:18:17,280 --> 00:18:20,119 Speaker 1: In order to survive, listen to more Coast to Coast 318 00:18:20,160 --> 00:18:23,879 Speaker 1: AM every weeknight at one am Eastern, and go to 319 00:18:23,920 --> 00:18:26,080 Speaker 1: Coast to coastam dot com for more