Speaker 1: We don't deserve the title of Homo sapiens the wise ape,
Speaker 1: because we've been destroying our only home, because there's been
Speaker 1: a disconnect I think between this clever brain and the
Speaker 1: human heart. I love the way we poetically put love
Speaker 1: and compassion into the human heart and then finally this
Speaker 1: indomitable human spirit that won't give in and so often succeed.
Speaker 1: So how can you not have hope? Hey, everyone, welcome
Speaker 1: back to our Purpose, the number one a health podcast
Speaker 1: in the world. Thanks to each and every single one
Speaker 1: of you that come back every week to listen, learn
Speaker 1: and grow. Now, it's not every week that you get
Speaker 1: to sit down with one of your heroes and legends.
Speaker 1: I am not I am not overestimating at all. This
Speaker 1: is someone that was on my original list of people
Speaker 1: I wanted to sit down with when I started this podcast.
Speaker 1: You know that I want to sit down with thinkers, activists, philanthropists,
Speaker 1: and people that are doing work in the world that
Speaker 1: inspires me and can inspire all of us to do more.
Speaker 1: I'm speaking about the one and only Jane Goodall. Jane,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for being with me here today.
Speaker 1: I am so grateful to spend this time with you,
Speaker 1: and I thank you for giving me this opportunity. Well,
Speaker 1: thank you for inviting me, and I'm sure we're going
Speaker 1: to have a wonderful conversation. Absolutely, Jane. Whereabouts in the
Speaker 1: world are you right now? I'm in England, south of England, Bournemouth,
Speaker 1: in the house where I grew up, where I have
Speaker 1: been grounded since the beginning of the pandemic. Wow. I
Speaker 1: read that one of your favorite novel series was Tarzan.
Speaker 1: I wanted to know what about that story lights you
Speaker 1: up and why it's one of your favorites. Well, actually,
Speaker 1: you know, when I look at the favorites, Well, actually
Speaker 1: you know when I look at the original Tarzan of
Speaker 1: the Apes fired me. I was ten years old and ah,
Speaker 1: I wanted to go to Africa. I wanted to live
Speaker 1: with wild animals in the forest. I thought Tarzan married
Speaker 1: the wrong Jane. If I read the book now, I
Speaker 1: don't like it because there's an awful lot of killing
Speaker 1: and death and all that stuff. But that's what inspired me,
Speaker 1: and that's what made my dream. I will go to Africa,
Speaker 1: live with wild animals and write books about them. Because
Speaker 1: back then, girl, I mean, we're going back like seventy
Speaker 1: eight years or something. Girls weren't scientists. No girls went
Speaker 1: out in the forest. Everybody laughed at me, Jane, dream
Speaker 1: about something you can achieve, not my amazing mother. She said,
Speaker 1: if you really want to do something like this, well
Speaker 1: you're going to have to work very hard, take advantage
Speaker 1: of every opportunity, and if you don't give up, maybe
Speaker 1: you'll find a way. Incredible advice from your mother. What
Speaker 1: do you think it was about her that she was
Speaker 1: able to have that vision and that encouragement for you,
Speaker 1: Apart from her love for you, what is it that
Speaker 1: you think made her special in that way, especially at
Speaker 1: a time when women were being discouraged from anything of
Speaker 1: the sort. She had a wonderful mother who was kind
Speaker 1: of way ahead of her time, and she had an
Speaker 1: extraordinary father who was a congregational minister. My one sadness
Speaker 1: I never met him. He died before I was born.
Speaker 1: But everything I've read about him, you know he used
Speaker 1: to go out in the woods. He would take his
Speaker 1: children out and tell them about nature, and I know
Speaker 1: that I would have got on so well with him.
Speaker 1: So basically, my mother was special because she had special parents,
Speaker 1: and that's important for us to know. Now. I attribute
Speaker 1: much of who I am and what I've done, to
Speaker 1: the fact that my mother supported me when I was
Speaker 1: a child. How did it affect you, Jane, when you
Speaker 1: had this dream and this vision but people around you
Speaker 1: told you it wasn't possible. I mean, the words you
Speaker 1: shared of people that you spoke to sounded very discouraging,
Speaker 1: especially for a young person. And I feel today a
Speaker 1: lot of young people here different things, but it's the
Speaker 1: same message. You're not smart enough, you're not good enough,
Speaker 1: you're not the right person. It's not the right time.
Speaker 1: How did that make you feel? And how did you
Speaker 1: process that at the time. Well, you see, because I
Speaker 1: had this supportive family. It was only my mother. I
Speaker 1: lived with her, and when war began. I grew up
Speaker 1: in World War two, and when the war began, Mom
Speaker 1: brought me and my sister to live with her mother
Speaker 1: here this house, and it was with my mother's two sisters,
Speaker 1: and her brother came as often as he could from London.
Speaker 1: He was a surgeon. He had to deal with the
Speaker 1: victims of the blitz. You know, was bomb day after
Speaker 1: day after day. So I was just surrounded by this
Speaker 1: supportive family of extraordinary people, and I didn't care what
Speaker 1: the outside world said the reason I take the se
Speaker 1: message around the world what my mother said to me.
Speaker 1: Hundreds of young people have written to me or said
Speaker 1: to me, Jane, I wondered, thank you because you taught me.
Speaker 1: Because you did it, I can do it too. That's
Speaker 1: a beautiful message, and it's amazing to hear it from you,
Speaker 1: especially with your life journey, and I mean living through
Speaker 1: World War Two as well, and just that whole period
Speaker 1: of your life that you've been through. I love that
Speaker 1: you're sharing that message, Jane. I think it's such a brilliant, brilliant,
Speaker 1: brilliant voice that we all need to hear today. And unfortunately,
Speaker 1: it seems that the world is always dealing with a
Speaker 1: new set of critics, more discouragement, and a new set
Speaker 1: of cynicism or skepticism, and we need voices like yours
Speaker 1: that continue to break them down and help inspire us
Speaker 1: to think differently. I'm very grateful I grew up in
Speaker 1: the war because I learned to take nothing for granted.
Speaker 1: You know, everything was ration food and clothes and petrol everything,
Speaker 1: And you know, wasting food was something we wouldn't have
Speaker 1: dreamed of. If something fell on the floor, you at
Speaker 1: it anyway, and nothing was wasted, nothing, and you didn't
Speaker 1: even take life for granted because your family's friends were dying.
Speaker 1: So growing up in the war I think helped to
Speaker 1: make me what I am without any question. Yeah, how
Speaker 1: do how do we process that today? When you know
Speaker 1: my generation and obviously younger generations, we're not growing up
Speaker 1: at that time, And sometimes people feel guilty. They feel well,
Speaker 1: I haven't had that experience, so I don't know how
Speaker 1: to live with that gratitude or not take things for granted,
Speaker 1: or sometimes people feel well, I've got other problems today.
Speaker 1: How do you recommend people today process that gift and
Speaker 1: opportunities that we have today. Well, I think actually we're
Speaker 1: living through a war right now. I lived through the
Speaker 1: war with the Nazi Germans. This war is against nature,
Speaker 1: and I think people need to realize that we're part
Speaker 1: of the natural world, we're not separate from it, and
Speaker 1: we shouldn't take nature's bounty for granted because in some places,
Speaker 1: because of this crazy idea that we can have unlimited
Speaker 1: economic development on a planet with finite natural resources, already
Speaker 1: in some places they're being used up faster than nature
Speaker 1: can replenish them. So once young people understand this, they
Speaker 1: too can learn not to take nature's bounty for granted,
Speaker 1: because it won't go on forever unless we develop a
Speaker 1: different relationship with mother Nature. I mean, Jane, you've probably
Speaker 1: seen across the decades the war as you describe it,
Speaker 1: Has the war got better, has it got worse? Wherever
Speaker 1: you see the victims of the war is what have
Speaker 1: been the greatest losses of this war as you described
Speaker 1: it well? That you know, on the plus side, there's
Speaker 1: a growing awareness, and I think that's been helped by
Speaker 1: the pandemic, quite honestly, because you know, people have when
Speaker 1: you know, there was a brief period of time when
Speaker 1: industry closed down, there was less traffic, when countries went
Speaker 1: into shutdown, and you can imagine in some cities where
Speaker 1: the air was polluted and there was just traffic and cement,
Speaker 1: they got a little glimpse of how things should be,
Speaker 1: like looking up and seek stars bright in the night
Speaker 1: sky instead of through a haze of pollution or even
Speaker 1: not at all, and hearing birds they're always there, but
Speaker 1: they couldn't hear them because of the traffic. So it's
Speaker 1: woken people up to how the world could be and
Speaker 1: should be, and they won't want to go back to
Speaker 1: that level of pollution and noise. And so that's a
Speaker 1: sign of hope that more young people are understanding we
Speaker 1: need to change this somehow, somehow, we need to get
Speaker 1: back to a better relationship with mother nature. What are
Speaker 1: some of the simple and practical things you think that
Speaker 1: people can do in their own homes and their own
Speaker 1: spaces to start that journey. What would you recommend to them?
Speaker 1: If people are saying, you know, I see that, Jane,
Speaker 1: I do see that. I do see I prefer it
Speaker 1: when the world is impoluted. I do see that we
Speaker 1: are taking nature for granted. But what do I do?
Speaker 1: What can I do? If I do one thing? How's
Speaker 1: that going to help? When people have that mentality, how
Speaker 1: do you respond to that? Well, it's basically it's more
Speaker 1: than just one thing that I don't think there's any
Speaker 1: one thing. It's a whole plethora of things. And the
Speaker 1: main thing for young people is to help them understand
Speaker 1: and adults too. Every single day, every single one of
Speaker 1: us makes some impact on the planet, and unless we're
Speaker 1: living in dire poverty, which is another subject, then we
Speaker 1: have a choice as to what sort of impact we make.
Speaker 1: For example, what do we buy? Ask ourselves it did
Speaker 1: as production harm the environment? Did it lead to cruelty
Speaker 1: to animals? Is it cheap because of unfair wages? If so,
Speaker 1: don't buy it. And then the companies and it's happening,
Speaker 1: will gradually realize that consumer pressure is changing the way
Speaker 1: they operate. And so it's for young people. This program
Speaker 1: we have for young people, Roots and Shoots. They sit
Speaker 1: down together in their group and they talk about the
Speaker 1: things they care about. Some will care about the environment,
Speaker 1: some will care about the way we treat animals. Some
Speaker 1: will care about what's happening to people. And they choose
Speaker 1: a project, work out what they can do, roll up
Speaker 1: their sleeves, get out and take action. But they share
Speaker 1: what they do because it's all interconnected, you know. I
Speaker 1: learned that in the rainforest. And so when young people
Speaker 1: take action like that, they actually see that they're making
Speaker 1: a difference. They see that, yes, they can make clean
Speaker 1: water in a stream that was polluted, and then they realize, well,
Speaker 1: in these other because we're in sixty five countries now,
Speaker 1: in these other countries, young people are cleaning up streams
Speaker 1: as well. It's not just us, Other people care too.
Speaker 1: We're part of a growing community of youth that wants
Speaker 1: to interact with nature in a new way because of
Speaker 1: all the harm that our previous generations have inflicted on
Speaker 1: poor old nature. Can you give me an example, Jane,
Speaker 1: of a very human or special moment that you've had
Speaker 1: interacting with nature. I'm sure there's so many that you've
Speaker 1: had over the years. I'd love you to just remember
Speaker 1: one for us where nature felt truly alive to you,
Speaker 1: where you experience nature's abundance and connection to us and
Speaker 1: our interconnectedness. Because I think, like you said, you know,
Speaker 1: I was very fortunate. I lived as a month for
Speaker 1: three years in India, and we lived on a sustainable
Speaker 1: farm that we managed and created and developed. And I
Speaker 1: got to see where food comes from and how water
Speaker 1: is cleaned, and I got to see how trees are
Speaker 1: planted and grown, and we made mud bricks, and I
Speaker 1: got to see how long it took to make one
Speaker 1: brick that would be dried by the sand, and we
Speaker 1: went through that process. And I went through that for
Speaker 1: three years in my twenties, from the age of around
Speaker 1: twenty one to twenty four. And for me, seeing that firsthand,
Speaker 1: I started to realize I had no clue where my
Speaker 1: food came from, where my shelter came from, where my
Speaker 1: water or my clothes came from. Growing up in London,
Speaker 1: where I was born and raised. Yeah, and that those
Speaker 1: experiences made nature feel so close to me and so
Speaker 1: much a part of me. Could you share one of
Speaker 1: your I'm sure you have so many, but if there's
Speaker 1: one that you could remember, whether it's with an animal,
Speaker 1: whether it's with a plant, whether it's in a rainforest,
Speaker 1: wherever it may be, Oh gosh, you know, you're right.
Speaker 1: I've got so many, so many, but one that I
Speaker 1: think is worth sharing was with a chimpanzee, my very
Speaker 1: very special chimpanzee, David Graybeard. When I got to Gombi
Speaker 1: and I was twenty six, nobody had studied while chimpanzee
Speaker 1: is nobody. And the big problem I had they were
Speaker 1: they're very conservative and they take one look at this
Speaker 1: peculiar white ape and run away. I only had money
Speaker 1: for six months, so you know I would I be
Speaker 1: able to get their trust in time. So fortunately, David Graybeard,
Speaker 1: for some reason, was less afraid than the others. And
Speaker 1: by the way, it was David Graybeard who showed me
Speaker 1: that chimpanzees can use and make tools. When he showed
Speaker 1: me fishing for termites with stems and twigs, which previously
Speaker 1: was thought to be, you know, only humans were able
Speaker 1: to use and make tools. But leave that aside. He'd
Speaker 1: just begun to allow me to follow him. And I
Speaker 1: was following him in the forest, and I lost him.
Speaker 1: I thought I had, because he went through a tangled
Speaker 1: thicket of thorny vegetation. Easy for him, but for me.
Speaker 1: You know, I got tangled up with my hair and
Speaker 1: my sandals. Thought i'd lost it. Never might I'll see
Speaker 1: him another day. But when I got through the tangle,
Speaker 1: there he was sitting. He was looking back. I mean
Speaker 1: it honestly looked as though he was waiting for me.
Speaker 1: I can't imagine he was, but he might have been.
Speaker 1: So I sat near him, and on the ground was
Speaker 1: a ripe red palm nut, which chimps love at fruit
Speaker 1: of the oil nut palm. So I picked it up
Speaker 1: and held it out towards him on my hand, and
Speaker 1: he turned his face away, So I perhaps cheekily put
Speaker 1: my hand a bit closer, and he turned round. He
Speaker 1: looked directly into my eyes. He reached out and he
Speaker 1: took that nut, but dropped it, bent very gently squeezed
Speaker 1: my fingers, and that is how chimpanzees reassured each other.
Speaker 1: So in that moment, there was a connection between us
Speaker 1: based on a language of gesture that must have predated
Speaker 1: human spoken language. He understood that my motive was good,
Speaker 1: but he really didn't want that art and I understood
Speaker 1: that too. So it was a moment of real connection
Speaker 1: between me an absolutely wild animal who'd had no connection
Speaker 1: with people before. And I think it, I think it
Speaker 1: changed my life. That's incredible. Why thank you so much
Speaker 1: sharing that. That's that's probably one of my favorite ones.
Speaker 1: And it's such a it's such a beautiful example. I recently,
Speaker 1: just this weekend, I watched The Octopus Teacher on Netflix.
Speaker 1: I'm not sure. Wonderful. Yeah, it was so wonderful, wasn't it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: me and my friends and my wife sat down and
Speaker 1: watched it together, and not only was the cinematography and
Speaker 1: videography stunning, it was just such a beautiful example of
Speaker 1: what you just shared that human can action with between
Speaker 1: a human and an octopus, It's such an incredible way
Speaker 1: of seeing that come to I'm sure you know we're
Speaker 1: going to see that more and more, as hopefully we
Speaker 1: get more entwined with nature. I want to speak about
Speaker 1: this incredible conversation book, The Book of Hope, Survival Guide
Speaker 1: for Trying Times. I don't feel there could have been
Speaker 1: a more timely moment for this book to be coming
Speaker 1: into our lives. And I would encourage everyone who's listening
Speaker 1: and watching to go and order a copy of this
Speaker 1: book because it's the book we've been waiting for. It's
Speaker 1: the book we've been hoping for. I think a lot
Speaker 1: of us have been looking for navigation during this time.
Speaker 1: We've been looking for direction and guidance and understanding at
Speaker 1: this time, and I really do believe that The Book
Speaker 1: of Hope, a Survival Guide for Trying Times, is the
Speaker 1: book that's going to help us do that. I wanted
Speaker 1: to ask you, Jane, when you look at the history
Speaker 1: of hope, if we look at the history of humans
Speaker 1: needing hope, you've lived through times when people would have
Speaker 1: said there is no hope. Yet there was hope that
Speaker 1: was found and it changed things again. Today we hear
Speaker 1: that rhetoric there's no hope, everything's hopeless. Everything's tell us
Speaker 1: about finding hope. Historically, at difficult times and how hard
Speaker 1: it was, and then the same now today. Well I think,
Speaker 1: you know, I go back to the war again, growing
Speaker 1: up in the war, because there were a period when
Speaker 1: Britain stood alone against the might of Nazi Germany, and
Speaker 1: Britain was not prepared for war because Chamberlain had wanted
Speaker 1: to capitulate, and you know there was Churchill saying, no,
Speaker 1: we have to fight these Nazis. We don't want to
Speaker 1: be overrun by this horrible rhetoric of Theirs. You know,
Speaker 1: it was basically Churchill. So there we were Britain, little Britain,
Speaker 1: and we were so unprepared. I'm living in the south
Speaker 1: of England. The sea is just there and it was
Speaker 1: a landing place that you know, Nazi troops were going
Speaker 1: to land quite near us. Do you know what our
Speaker 1: protection was a bit of scaffolding out in the sea
Speaker 1: and a bit of barbed wire. That was it, you know.
Speaker 1: But Churchill was rousing the British people, saying we will
Speaker 1: not be overrun, we will never give in. We will
Speaker 1: fight them on the beaches, we will fight them in
Speaker 1: the woods. I think he was heard to as thunderous
Speaker 1: applause came out. He was heard to turn aside to
Speaker 1: one of the people near him and say, and we'll
Speaker 1: fight them with the butt ends are broken bottles, because
Speaker 1: that's bloody well all we've got. Do you have that
Speaker 1: great British sense of humor? So you know, okay, living
Speaker 1: through a time when it totally seemed hopeless, how could
Speaker 1: we survive? And then we our air force? And again
Speaker 1: Churchill saying, never in the history of mankind has so
Speaker 1: much been owed by so many to so few. Because
Speaker 1: these young men they went out and they got killed,
Speaker 1: They got killed, they got killed, but they went on volunteering.
Speaker 1: And you know, when you grew up with this sort
Speaker 1: of thing going on around you, and the way that
Speaker 1: people in London during the Blitz when every night they
Speaker 1: were bombed. Every night people lost their homes and lost
Speaker 1: their lives. And my uncle was working in the big hospital.
Speaker 1: They're treating all these victims of the bombing. And yet
Speaker 1: the people there, they got together, they had the sense
Speaker 1: of humor and they managed to pull together and not
Speaker 1: give in. So what you couldn't have had a better
Speaker 1: a better lesson for me in hope. And you know,
Speaker 1: in this book I talk about the reasons for hope.
Speaker 1: The energy of young people when they know the problem
Speaker 1: and you empower them to take action, and the resilience
Speaker 1: of nature. We destroy a place utterly, but give nature time,
Speaker 1: maybe some help, it will come back again. And then
Speaker 1: this extraordinary intellect that we have, we haven't used it wisely.
Speaker 1: We haven't always been wise at all. We don't deserve
Speaker 1: the title of Homo sapiens the wise ape, because we've
Speaker 1: been destroying our only home, because there's been a disconnect
Speaker 1: I think between this clever brain and the human heart.
Speaker 1: I love the way we poetically put love and compassion
Speaker 1: into the human heart. I don't know why, but anyway,
Speaker 1: that's what we did. And then finally, this indomitable human
Speaker 1: spirit that won't give in and so often succeeds. How
Speaker 1: can you not have hope? Yeah, thank you so much.
Speaker 1: I can't wait to dive into each of those. As
Speaker 1: we go through the interview, I wanted to ask you,
Speaker 1: Jane about you know, so many people have lost their
Speaker 1: hope during the pandemic, and the pandemic broke people down,
Speaker 1: it shattered their resilience. How do you think people will
Speaker 1: be able to bring back that hope that they lost
Speaker 1: in the pandemic? How do How do we do that?
Speaker 1: How we do it? I think, you know, one of
Speaker 1: the big problems is that the media gives so much
Speaker 1: attention to everything negative. And yeah, they have to, we
Speaker 1: need to know. But if you think during the pandemic
Speaker 1: of the stories of courage and bravery and self sacrifice,
Speaker 1: people losing their lives to treat sick people, you know,
Speaker 1: this gives you such a feeling of how amazing humans
Speaker 1: actually are, and that in itself is enough to of
Speaker 1: people hope. But then when you come to all the
Speaker 1: people who've lost their jobs living in poverty, the only
Speaker 1: way to give them hope is to help them. I mean,
Speaker 1: if you are living where every day you went out
Speaker 1: to work and you've got just enough money to feed
Speaker 1: yourself and your family, unfair wages meant you could never
Speaker 1: save so those people, it's very hard to see how
Speaker 1: they'll regain hope unless we help them. On the other hand,
Speaker 1: there are people in those situations who somehow manage to
Speaker 1: rise above it and just get this thing. I'm not
Speaker 1: going to give in. I will find a way to
Speaker 1: make a living and will do something, even if it's
Speaker 1: something menial, just to get me through this, to enable
Speaker 1: me to feed my family and share those stories. It
Speaker 1: is possible. Not easy, but it is possible because of
Speaker 1: this indomitable human spirit. Absolutely. And how do you really
Speaker 1: define hope? And what would you say is the difference
Speaker 1: between hope and belief? I think that's a really important
Speaker 1: conversation to have because I think often we confuse that.
Speaker 1: So how do you define hope and what's the difference
Speaker 1: between a hope and belief? Well, hope. You know, some
Speaker 1: people feel it's very passive. Well I'm okay, I hope
Speaker 1: it's going to be okay, and they don't do anything.
Speaker 1: To me, hope is about action. I hope that I
Speaker 1: can make a difference, but I won't make a difference
Speaker 1: unless I take action. That I think is to me
Speaker 1: what hope is all about. And the tragedy is that
Speaker 1: if we lose hope, then we sink into apathy. Because
Speaker 1: if you don't think your actions are going to make
Speaker 1: a difference, even a small difference, why bother? Why do anything?
Speaker 1: Just give up, eat drink and be merry, but tomorrow
Speaker 1: we die if you're in a position to buy the
Speaker 1: food and the drink to be merry. But you know,
Speaker 1: so that to me, hope is all about taking action
Speaker 1: and faith, well faith. You know, I got very very
Speaker 1: angry a little while ago with Richard Dawkins, who I
Speaker 1: don't know if you know his name, but he's a
Speaker 1: committed atheist and he actually spent a lot of money
Speaker 1: hiring advertisements on the London double decker red buses saying
Speaker 1: if you believe in God, your stupid, or something like that. Now,
Speaker 1: if you think of somebody who's a refugee who's fled
Speaker 1: either climate change or war conflict, and sometimes they arrive
Speaker 1: and I'm saying now England, but it could be anywhere,
Speaker 1: and they've lost their family, they've lost everything, but they've
Speaker 1: got a faith, believe in God that God will put
Speaker 1: things right. And so people talk about blind faith, but
Speaker 1: blind faith can give you hope because you know you
Speaker 1: believe in God, God's going to make things right. That
Speaker 1: gives you hope. God will make things right. But still
Speaker 1: you've got to do your part. And I think the Bible,
Speaker 1: I mean I grew up as a Christian, but it
Speaker 1: could be the Koran, it could be anything. But you know,
Speaker 1: the Bible is full of messages about about hope and
Speaker 1: taking action and not just sitting back and letting the
Speaker 1: world roll by you. That's a that's a beautiful description.
Speaker 1: It's a wonderful way of breaking down the words for us.
Speaker 1: And I love how you said that hope is full
Speaker 1: of action and you know, making a change and trying
Speaker 1: to be a part of the solution. And you talk
Speaker 1: about hope as a survival trait, which I thought was
Speaker 1: really interesting in and I'm also starting to see you
Speaker 1: and I would love to get your thoughts on this.
Speaker 1: I also see hope as a habit. I see it
Speaker 1: as something we have to practice, as something we have
Speaker 1: to develop. Is something that the more you think of it,
Speaker 1: the more you build it into your routine in life,
Speaker 1: the more real it becomes because it's something that has
Speaker 1: to be practiced and lived on a daily basis. It's
Speaker 1: not just an idea or something that happens mentally. What
Speaker 1: would you think about that if you think of hope
Speaker 1: as a habit as well as a survival trait, well,
Speaker 1: I guess you could say it's a habit. But I
Speaker 1: mean the thing is once you once you start take
Speaker 1: I mean all these people who who become totally depressed,
Speaker 1: sometimes even suicidal because they look around at the problems
Speaker 1: of the world, and my goodness, it's terrible. I mean
Speaker 1: not You cannot not be depressed if you look around
Speaker 1: at the problems of the world. That's why you know
Speaker 1: the messages. Don't think globally, at locally. At locally. First
Speaker 1: see that you can make a difference. And when you
Speaker 1: see that you make a difference, you want to do more.
Speaker 1: And so taking that first step, it gives you hope
Speaker 1: that your actions do make a difference, and then you
Speaker 1: want to do more. And as you do more, it's
Speaker 1: like a feedback loop and you inspire others to join you.
Speaker 1: And as you see others making a difference, that increases
Speaker 1: your hope. And so it's spirals like that, and that's
Speaker 1: what's happening with the young people in our Roots and
Speaker 1: Shoots program. I think, yeah, I would love to have
Speaker 1: an experience with the Roots and Shoots program. It sounds
Speaker 1: so exciting and inspiring. I think it would be wonderful
Speaker 1: to get to be involved and get to be a
Speaker 1: part of it, to really see it firsthand. I think
Speaker 1: there's such a joy that comes from actually being involved
Speaker 1: and getting your AND's dirty. There's times in seeing it
Speaker 1: for yourself. So I'm wondering Jean. You know, obviously you
Speaker 1: have such an abundant optimism, you have such a great
Speaker 1: strength in you and resilience from everything you've been. And
Speaker 1: I'm wondering, was there ever a time when someone or
Speaker 1: something and I loved what you said earlier day, someone
Speaker 1: made you angry? And I'm thinking, was there ever a
Speaker 1: time where something that happened in the world or someone
Speaker 1: or something in nature made you lose hope or being
Speaker 1: close to losing hope? And I want to know how
Speaker 1: you got it back, because I feel like a lot
Speaker 1: of people are on that cusp of they're just about
Speaker 1: to lose hope and they just need to grab hold
Speaker 1: of it again. You know, I've experienced deeg depression, and
Speaker 1: you know, for example, I spent time in a small
Speaker 1: wooded area quite close to here and heard the birds.
Speaker 1: I don't know why it was there, but I was.
Speaker 1: And two years later it was yet another shopping mall.
Speaker 1: I was angry, but first of all, I was really depressed.
Speaker 1: I was sad. I sat there and felt like crying,
Speaker 1: but then that sadness turned to anger. How dare they
Speaker 1: do that? Well? I can't save this place now, but
Speaker 1: there are other places like this that I can try
Speaker 1: to save or inspire people living there, encourage them to
Speaker 1: do what they can to save it before it's too late.
Speaker 1: So I don't know, it's the way I'm made. You know,
Speaker 1: I'm very obstinate and like one of these dolls, you know,
Speaker 1: these dolls with loaded bases and you knock them over
Speaker 1: and they jump up. That's how I am like one
Speaker 1: of them. I don't know what you call them, but
Speaker 1: I'm like one of those dolls. I will not be
Speaker 1: pushed down by anyone. I will bounce up. But just
Speaker 1: the way I'm made. Yeah, I love that. I think
Speaker 1: that's beautiful and I think I do believe that's the
Speaker 1: only way we can learn to live. We need we
Speaker 1: all need to learn to be that way because it's
Speaker 1: you know, as we know, life's going to keep knocking
Speaker 1: us down and we have to get back up and
Speaker 1: we need that resilience, we need that strength. So I
Speaker 1: love that. You know, the book mentions four components for
Speaker 1: hope and making it sustainable and it's goals, pathways, confidence,
Speaker 1: and support, and I wanted to hear about a few
Speaker 1: of them that you see and you know you said
Speaker 1: and the conversation you're having. The researchers call it the
Speaker 1: hope cycle. What kind of goals should we have at
Speaker 1: this time? What do you think? What goals do you
Speaker 1: feel of realistic but also ambitious enough for us to
Speaker 1: have at this time. You can't be passionate about everything,
Speaker 1: but that's enough of us. That's one of the only
Speaker 1: benefit I couldn't see in the number of people on
Speaker 1: the planet was enough people to tackle all the different problems,
Speaker 1: you know, because nobody can tackle everything. So with our
Speaker 1: groups of roots and tuts, for example, you find every
Speaker 1: group for us, kids who are passionate about helping animals,
Speaker 1: someone to help people, someone to help the environment. And
Speaker 1: so if you choose something you're really passionate about and
Speaker 1: you see that you can make a difference. You know,
Speaker 1: that leads to this whole feedback system of hope. So
Speaker 1: I don't quite know what else I can say about Now,
Speaker 1: that's a beautiful example. No, I love that. Thank you
Speaker 1: so much for sharing that. Again. I think that's just
Speaker 1: a great reminder of recognizing that you don't have to
Speaker 1: change everything, and you can't change everything, but there maybe
Speaker 1: your passion is going to bring you towards a particular
Speaker 1: area of impact. Or a pain that you see is
Speaker 1: going to bring you to a particular are of impact.
Speaker 1: Often it's what inspires us and sometimes it's what hurts
Speaker 1: us that makes us want to take action. And so
Speaker 1: I think that's a beautiful answer, and I just wanted
Speaker 1: to remind people of that. Sometimes as we were discussing,
Speaker 1: so many people will be thinking so overwhelmed. There's so
Speaker 1: many things that the world needs help with. There's you know, nature,
Speaker 1: there's animals, there's cancer, there's and so knowing that people
Speaker 1: can just start with what is deeply important to them, yes,
Speaker 1: that's the way to start. Because then that's why Roots
Speaker 1: and Choots is working so well, because the kids, they're
Speaker 1: passionate about what they do because they chose it. We
Speaker 1: don't tell them what to do. And so Roots and
Speaker 1: Choots group will choose different projects, whether they're in the
Speaker 1: city or rural area, rich or poor, whether they're in
Speaker 1: Indian Pakistan, whether they're in Africa or Florida or New York.
Speaker 1: They're going to choose the projects that are important to
Speaker 1: them where they live. And so I think it's because
Speaker 1: it's a it's a not a top down but the
Speaker 1: bottom up program that it's spreading around the world. Yes, yes, truly,
Speaker 1: truly making a difference. And the thing is that these
Speaker 1: three projects animals, people, environment, that every group must choose
Speaker 1: between them, they all share the result of their products,
Speaker 1: and therefore begin to understand how everything is interrelated. You know.
Speaker 1: I learned that in the rainforest, every species has a
Speaker 1: role to play in this beautiful tapestry of life. And
Speaker 1: I see it as when one species disappears from an ecosystem,
Speaker 1: it's like pulling a thread from that beautiful tapestry, and
Speaker 1: as enough threads are pull that ecosystem, that tapestry will
Speaker 1: hang in tatters and the ecosystem will collapse. Oh that's
Speaker 1: such a great metaphor and analogy for us to visually.
Speaker 1: I could visualize that as you are describing it. And
Speaker 1: one of the things that I observed in nature that
Speaker 1: I love so much is that every part of nature
Speaker 1: is always serving. So the trees are providing shade, they're
Speaker 1: providing fruits and flowers, the water is moving and providing,
Speaker 1: the sun is providing heat and warmth and light, and
Speaker 1: every aspect of nature is always in service to others.
Speaker 1: And it seems that the only part of nature that
Speaker 1: is not in service is often us as humans and
Speaker 1: people where we're trying to serve ourselves versus serve and
Speaker 1: give and provide and share. And you talk about this
Speaker 1: beautiful point about you know, the reasons for hope, and
Speaker 1: one of them you give is the human intellect. And
Speaker 1: we've all heard that it's our minds that separates from animals.
Speaker 1: But in your book you mentioned that great apes can
Speaker 1: learn four hundred or more words of American sign language,
Speaker 1: workout complex problems on a computer, and like some animals
Speaker 1: you mentioned, I think, including I think it's pigs. I
Speaker 1: love painting and drawing. You mentioned the octopus. Yes, exactly, exactly,
Speaker 1: And so if animals are smarter than most people give
Speaker 1: them credit for, what is it truly that sets us
Speaker 1: apart when you use the human intellect as a reason
Speaker 1: for hope, Well, the human intellect differs from that of
Speaker 1: all other animals chimpanzees, than everybody else to the links
Speaker 1: to which it's gone, like, there's no animal, no matter
Speaker 1: how intelligent, on the planet today, that could design a
Speaker 1: rocket that goes up to Mars, launches a little robot
Speaker 1: that goes around taking photographs. That is out of the category,
Speaker 1: out of the league of animal intellect. I mean, the
Speaker 1: way we're talking now is an example of human intellect.
Speaker 1: There's intellect the zooms of the podcasts and all the
Speaker 1: things that we do. It's just amazing. And I believe
Speaker 1: that that was at least in part triggered by the
Speaker 1: fact that at some point in our evolution we developed
Speaker 1: this way of communicating as we are now with words.
Speaker 1: So with words, you and I can send our message
Speaker 1: to people and teach them something they never thought of before.
Speaker 1: We can teach our children about things going on in
Speaker 1: other countries. Chimpanzees can't do that. Their children learn by observing,
Speaker 1: but we can use words, and we can bring people
Speaker 1: together to have discussions, to try and solve problems. People
Speaker 1: with different outlooks on different different jobs, different skills. So
Speaker 1: that's the difference. And this is why it's so bizarre
Speaker 1: that we're destroying our only home. We don't want to
Speaker 1: live on Mars. We know that now, and I think
Speaker 1: it's a disconnect between this clever, clever brain and as
Speaker 1: I said before, the human heart, love and compassion, And honestly,
Speaker 1: I truly truly believe it's only when head and heart
Speaker 1: work in harmony that we can achieve our true human potential,
Speaker 1: which some people have. Yes, I think that I that
Speaker 1: was so wonderfully shared. I I really believe that our
Speaker 1: intellect and our intention have been disconnected, and so the
Speaker 1: intellect is not being guided by or directed by intention.
Speaker 1: It's being free to do whatever it needs to creed
Speaker 1: to feel sense gratified, and to feel self you know,
Speaker 1: self obsession almost freedom to that point, and their love
Speaker 1: and compassion you're speaking about is such an intentionality with
Speaker 1: how we use this intellect that we've been gifted with. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean it was Maha mc gandhi who said the
Speaker 1: planet can produce for human need, but not human freed. Yeah.
Speaker 1: You know, we need a new definition of success because
Speaker 1: at the moment, if you talk to most kids, what's
Speaker 1: a successful person, Oh, somebody who's making a lot of money,
Speaker 1: or maybe somebody who's got a lot of power. And
Speaker 1: that's the way we think about success. To me, success
Speaker 1: is about having enough that you can feed yourself and
Speaker 1: your family. You can perhaps go for a nice holiday
Speaker 1: that you can enjoy spending time in nature and with
Speaker 1: your family and people just you know. They did an
Speaker 1: experiment where they followed different immigrant families who all arrived
Speaker 1: the same with a wife and a kid and nothing.
Speaker 1: And part of the group they managed to get jobs,
Speaker 1: and they managed to find somewhere to live, and then
Speaker 1: they upgraded it. They got a little house, they could
Speaker 1: send their kids to school. And there's this King of
Speaker 1: Uturn's happiness index. And as this happened, whatever that index
Speaker 1: is went up. The next group, they in the same way,
Speaker 1: started to improve their lives. But when they got to
Speaker 1: that level where the first group stopped, they went on.
Speaker 1: They wanted more, they wanted more money, they wanted more power,
Speaker 1: more well, more houses, and they succeeded, but the happiness
Speaker 1: level dropped. And I love that experiment because they're true.
Speaker 1: A lot of very wealthy people aren't happy people. Absolutely, yeah,
Speaker 1: And I think when I love that you shared that study.
Speaker 1: And I've also found that when someone's intention for more
Speaker 1: is so that they can do more service, whether it
Speaker 1: be financial, whether it be growth in any area of life,
Speaker 1: it becomes actually very beautiful. We see so many, so
Speaker 1: much incredible work happening with the world when people use
Speaker 1: their platforms for a higher purpose. As you see, like, yeah,
Speaker 1: people who have achieved great things and wonderful things and
Speaker 1: they're using that power or that influence or that money
Speaker 1: to have a change in people's lives and for the
Speaker 1: environment as opposed to themselves only, as you rightly said.
Speaker 1: And I think about that is something that's so needed
Speaker 1: as well, to encourage young people to say, hey, if
Speaker 1: you want to go and be successful, and you want
Speaker 1: to go and do this, do it, but do it
Speaker 1: in an intentional way, to use it as a way
Speaker 1: to serve. Do it with that in mind, that you
Speaker 1: don't want to harm the environment, and you want to
Speaker 1: improve the lives for people and animals. And I think
Speaker 1: if we could train people to not shy away from success,
Speaker 1: but like you said, redefine success and use success for
Speaker 1: something greater than success itself, then that to me feels
Speaker 1: like a hopeful environment and world to live in. It's
Speaker 1: quite true, you know. When I'm giving lectures, I always
Speaker 1: say that we all need money to live. It goes
Speaker 1: wrong unless we live for money, unless, yes, we live
Speaker 1: for money in order to help make the world a
Speaker 1: better place. And then I always make everybody laugh because
Speaker 1: I pause and I say, like, giving some money to
Speaker 1: the Jane Goodall Institute. That's brilliant. I love that that
Speaker 1: is so good. That is such a beautiful statement, though,
Speaker 1: could you repeat the full statement for us again because
Speaker 1: it was so perfect and I was taking it in
Speaker 1: that I want everyone else to hear it. I want
Speaker 1: ever enough to hear it again. Okay, So I tell
Speaker 1: people that, you know, we all need money to live,
Speaker 1: and it tends to go wrong when we live for
Speaker 1: money unless we live for money in order to use
Speaker 1: that money to make the world better for animals, people environment,
Speaker 1: like giving some funds to the Jane Goodall Institute. I
Speaker 1: was holding back my laugh to Visnu was coming. I
Speaker 1: love that's that's brilliant. But it's such a it's such
Speaker 1: a profound statement, and it is such a wonderful way.
Speaker 1: And I think that idea of engaging whatever gifts we have,
Speaker 1: whatever wonderful opportunities we've been given, to engage them back
Speaker 1: into the service. We had this beautiful practice Jane that
Speaker 1: I think, I think you'd appreciate from what you just said.
Speaker 1: When we would in India, it's common to bathe in
Speaker 1: holy rivers, whether it's the Ganges, the Yamuna, the Cavary,
Speaker 1: many holy rivers and whenever we would as monks made
Speaker 1: in these rivers, the practice would be that we would
Speaker 1: first scoop out water into our hands as much as
Speaker 1: we could have, and then we would pour it back
Speaker 1: into the river. And the purpose of this exercise was
Speaker 1: to show us that whatever we were doing, we were
Speaker 1: just scooping from the source and giving back to the source.
Speaker 1: And the idea that any gifts you have, anything that
Speaker 1: you hold in your life, you want to engage it
Speaker 1: back into the environment. So we take from the environment,
Speaker 1: but then we give it back. And the amount we
Speaker 1: take can ever be as much as the environment gives
Speaker 1: to us an offers to us. And it was it
Speaker 1: was just always a beautiful ritual that that made me
Speaker 1: remember that you're only here to serve. You're only a steward,
Speaker 1: You're you're only a you're only a housekeeper. You know,
Speaker 1: you're not a It's it's not a it's not your
Speaker 1: home in that sense. It's it's your home, but it's yeah,
Speaker 1: it's not your you're not the owner. It's your home,
Speaker 1: but you're not the owner. That's right, And that's why,
Speaker 1: that's why you must feel so sad about the way
Speaker 1: some of these Holy rivers are being polluted. And that absolutely, absolutely, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's heartbreaking. Isn't it. It is. It's really painful to watch.
Speaker 1: And you know, I've been trying in my own way,
Speaker 1: with the with the organizations I work with to try
Speaker 1: and be a part of that. But yeah, it's it's
Speaker 1: becoming very difficult. Like you said, though, we don't lose
Speaker 1: hope because we may not be able to impact this
Speaker 1: one place, but there's another place where that's happening. And
Speaker 1: I love that you said that. I think that's such
Speaker 1: a We often get so attached to who we help
Speaker 1: and how we help, and and I think real love
Speaker 1: and real compassion is I want to help anyone who
Speaker 1: needs it, and everyone who needs I'm able to. I'm
Speaker 1: able to see that even though this is what I
Speaker 1: see as valuable, if I can't impact that, I can
Speaker 1: I can create some value over here. I think that's
Speaker 1: a beautiful reminder. In case you didn't know, we have
Speaker 1: just started at two in good Old Institute in India,
Speaker 1: which is registered as an Engino with roots and spreading
Speaker 1: all over India. Wow, you know, hundreds of young people
Speaker 1: wanting to help in this fight to restore rivers and
Speaker 1: things like that. I just thought you might like to
Speaker 1: know that. Yeah, I am I love hearing that. I
Speaker 1: think on my next visit there as well, i'd love
Speaker 1: to experience that sounds sounds amazing. The second reason you
Speaker 1: give for hope now, and I love these reasons. I
Speaker 1: think they were so powerful is the resilience of nature,
Speaker 1: and one in particular, one story really stands out. And
Speaker 1: I'd love for you to shore with my community today
Speaker 1: about the Survivor tree. If you were happy enough to
Speaker 1: share that, I think it would be wonderful for them
Speaker 1: to hear. I happened to be in New York when
Speaker 1: the suicide bombers flew into the Twin Towers, and it
Speaker 1: was terrible. It was terrible being there. You know, everything
Speaker 1: went quiet and you could only hear police cars and
Speaker 1: ambulance sirens, and it was, you know, this total devastation
Speaker 1: and that it was horrible. It was horrible. Well, it
Speaker 1: turned out that when they were clearing the rubble, it
Speaker 1: was about two weeks after the towers fell. This young
Speaker 1: woman actually she saw the remains of a tree on
Speaker 1: a truck and I don't know how she persuaded the
Speaker 1: truck driver, but anyway, she said, but this tree isn't dead. Oh,
Speaker 1: he was going to put it on a dumpster and
Speaker 1: destroy it. So anyway, she managed to get the tree
Speaker 1: to a botanical garden and they nurtured and nurtured. All
Speaker 1: that was left was one big root and one trunk
Speaker 1: with one branch. That's all that was left. But they
Speaker 1: nurtured it, nurtured it, nurtured it, planted it back on
Speaker 1: the site where the towers fell. And now it's a
Speaker 1: calorie pear, not a pear tree, but a calorie pear.
Speaker 1: And in the spring it's big, now has these beautiful blossoms.
Speaker 1: And so I was I had a group of my
Speaker 1: young roots and shoots people around on International Peace Day
Speaker 1: and the tree was shedding its leaves because it was autumn.
Speaker 1: And so when I looked up into these branches, looked
Speaker 1: past this great black fissure, which is, you know, where
Speaker 1: the tree amazingly mended itself, and there was the nest
Speaker 1: of above but obviously have fledged and flown. And that
Speaker 1: was like the tree itself has survived the most horrendous
Speaker 1: attack and it's put out leaves and it's beautiful and
Speaker 1: it's nurtured another life form where the babies have fledged
Speaker 1: and flown out into the world. I just it was
Speaker 1: so wonderful. Yeah, absolutely, what a wonderful story. I'm so
Speaker 1: glad you shared that with us. Thank you. And you know,
Speaker 1: to hear about such devastation, you know you would you
Speaker 1: could never imagine that something could recover from that, but
Speaker 1: it did with some nurturing, with some love, with some attention.
Speaker 1: And the third and fourth reason you share with us,
Speaker 1: which we've spoken about a lot today, and I would
Speaker 1: love for everyone to get the book to read more
Speaker 1: about one and two, but three and four as well.
Speaker 1: Three is all about empowering young people. In four is
Speaker 1: about that human spirit. So anyone who's listening and watching
Speaker 1: right now and you're loving these stories and the examples,
Speaker 1: and you're being filled with hope. I really hope everyone
Speaker 1: who's listening and watching your body, your mind, your soul,
Speaker 1: your heart and being filled with hope. And I promise you,
Speaker 1: if you read this book, you will immerse yourself in hope.
Speaker 1: And I think hope needs to be an immersion. It
Speaker 1: needs to be a absorption in hope for us to
Speaker 1: really feel its benefits. Just like this tree receives such
Speaker 1: care and attention, you need that care and attention, and
Speaker 1: we need to give that care and attention to ourselves.
Speaker 1: In the last part of the book, you talk about
Speaker 1: becoming a messenger of hope, and I think often when
Speaker 1: we become messages of hope, people can say, oh, you know,
Speaker 1: stop being so positive and you know, you're just always
Speaker 1: trying to find the silver lining, and there could be
Speaker 1: a lot of skepticism and cynicism around hope, unfortunately, because
Speaker 1: we've created a world that amplifies negativity, as you said earlier,
Speaker 1: with what we see on TV and the news. If
Speaker 1: someone's listening and they're like, Jane, I want to become
Speaker 1: a mess senger of hope. What's something that they could
Speaker 1: do today for themselves or practically, Jane, that you think
Speaker 1: will help them continue that desire to become a messenger
Speaker 1: an ambassador of hope. You know, the first thing is
Speaker 1: to really think in your mind, what do I really
Speaker 1: care about? Okay, I really care about the way stray
Speaker 1: dogs are treated some countries, stones are thrown at them.
Speaker 1: I want to help. What can I do? And then
Speaker 1: you find that you can volunteer and a shelter, or
Speaker 1: you can adopt a little puppy or something like that,
Speaker 1: And that first step gives you a feeling of what
Speaker 1: it's like to be helpful because you've made a difference.
Speaker 1: It's going to be different for everybody, and all you
Speaker 1: need to be a messenger of hope is to feel
Speaker 1: hopeful and to be able to tell stories. Stories. It's
Speaker 1: no good talking in statistics and all that kind of
Speaker 1: stuff because nobody remembers. But stories like the ones that
Speaker 1: you asked me to share, people, even if they get
Speaker 1: the details wrong, they remember the message. And so I
Speaker 1: think messengers of hope need to be storytellers. They need
Speaker 1: to have experienced the joy of doing something and seeing
Speaker 1: that you've made a difference, and the even greater joy
Speaker 1: of seeing that you've inspired others to get that same
Speaker 1: feeling by taking action and making a difference. Yes, yes, absolutely,
Speaker 1: I love that answer, and I couldn't agree with you. More.
Speaker 1: Stories define us and they define how we feel, and
Speaker 1: they're the stories that resonate with our heart and statistics again,
Speaker 1: like you said, statistics talk to our head, but stories
Speaker 1: deal with our hearts. So, as you said, the head
Speaker 1: and heart alignment, I think that's a beautiful reminder for
Speaker 1: all of our messages of hope. Jane, you've been so
Speaker 1: generous and kind and wonderful with your time. I couldn't
Speaker 1: encourage people more to go and grab a copy of
Speaker 1: the book. We'll have the link in all of the captions.
Speaker 1: You can order it. If today's conversation has touched you,
Speaker 1: I promise you the conversation in the book will truly,
Speaker 1: truly help you, and it will help you become a
Speaker 1: hopeful messenger, and help you with your children and make
Speaker 1: them hopeful messengers and people around you in the world.
Speaker 1: And we need more hope in the world. It's the
Speaker 1: thing that we need most of right now. But Jane,
Speaker 1: we end every episode with a final five, which are
Speaker 1: a fast five where you have to answer every question
Speaker 1: in one word to one sentence maximum. So we're about
Speaker 1: to do that. But before we do that, I just
Speaker 1: thought of something. Actually, I was asked CBS is doing
Speaker 1: a primetime show called The Activist, and I was asked
Speaker 1: to be a guest judged the other day. And the
Speaker 1: three areas they chose our education, healthcare, and the environment,
Speaker 1: and they're encouraging people to come up with ideas and
Speaker 1: they're going to be funding them. And I believe the
Speaker 1: final meeting is with Leonardo DiCaprio, who's going to be
Speaker 1: really encouraging the ideas to move forward. I wanted to
Speaker 1: ask you when you think when you see all these
Speaker 1: things happening today in the mainstream, shows people such as
Speaker 1: Leonardo DiCaprio being so forward thinking about the environment, does
Speaker 1: that give you hope? How do you feel about those
Speaker 1: aspects outside where people are taking action? Yeah, it's great.
Speaker 1: I mean, of course it gives you hope because people
Speaker 1: like Leonardo DiCaprio and to Lena Jolie, Dave Matthews. People
Speaker 1: listen to them, and they're people I probably couldn't reach.
Speaker 1: So you know, the fact that they're out there and
Speaker 1: inspiring people and giving them hope, of course it reinforces
Speaker 1: my own hope that we are getting there, that together
Speaker 1: we can make a difference, and together we will. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's beautiful. I love that. Okay, we're going to move
Speaker 1: into the final five one word to one sentence maximum
Speaker 1: for each of these. Jane, are you ready for your
Speaker 1: fast five? Well, I'm no good at this, but go on.
Speaker 1: You can end up making a fool of me. That's fine.
Speaker 1: I made a fool of not at all, Not at all.
Speaker 1: That is not my intention. Okay. So the first question
Speaker 1: is what is the best advice you've ever received. The
Speaker 1: best advice I've ever received was from my mother when
Speaker 1: she said, if you really want to do something, work hard,
Speaker 1: take advantage of opportunity, and don't give up. What is
Speaker 1: the worst advice you've ever received. You can't make a difference,
Speaker 1: so don't bother. Great answer, Okay. Question number three, what's
Speaker 1: the first thing you do in the morning and the
Speaker 1: last thing you do at night? Try and get out
Speaker 1: of bed to face another day of podcasts and web
Speaker 1: ours and those things. The last thing I do watch
Speaker 1: some absolutely mindless and non intellectual something on TV or
Speaker 1: an audio book or something like that take my mind
Speaker 1: away from all the horror of the day. I love that.
Speaker 1: Question number four, what's the biggest lesson you've learned in
Speaker 1: the last twelve months? Patience? Wonderful and fifth and final question,
Speaker 1: if you could create one law that everyone in the
Speaker 1: world had to follow, what would it be? The law
Speaker 1: that is shared by every single major religion? Do unto
Speaker 1: others as you would have them do to you. Beautiful.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much everyone in the Book of Hope.
Speaker 1: Janiro We are so grateful for your time and energy.
Speaker 1: I can't wait to share this with millions of people
Speaker 1: in our community that listen every single week, and I
Speaker 1: can't wait for more people to read the Survival Guide
Speaker 1: for Trying Times, which is so needed right now. So
Speaker 1: thank you so much, and I hope this wasn't too
Speaker 1: much of a stressful podcast journey that you have to
Speaker 1: get away from that. I'm really really honored to have
Speaker 1: spoken to you, Jane, and I look forward to meeting
Speaker 1: you so thank you so much. Yep, well, I've had
Speaker 1: a wonderful talk with you. It wasn't stressful at all.
Speaker 1: It was fun and it'spirational and I look forward to
Speaker 1: meeting you as well. Thank you so much.