WEBVTT - What Does the Internet Know About You? 0:00:00.280 --> 0:00:02.600 Guess what will what's that man? Go? So do you 0:00:02.600 --> 0:00:05.320 remember ao hell? Like, did you or your friends ever 0:00:05.400 --> 0:00:07.920 use this? I mean, I know a O L. I 0:00:07.920 --> 0:00:12.240 can't say I remember ao LL. Right. So ao hell 0:00:12.360 --> 0:00:14.120 was kind of a hacking program you could use in 0:00:14.120 --> 0:00:16.200 the early days of the Internet. And this was back 0:00:16.200 --> 0:00:19.079 when I was like twelve or thirteen. I mean I 0:00:19.200 --> 0:00:21.720 never had it, like I was never a great programmer 0:00:21.880 --> 0:00:24.040 super into that side of the internet, like I was 0:00:24.120 --> 0:00:28.920 too busy reading in Carter but right, but sometimes I'd 0:00:28.920 --> 0:00:30.840 go over to my friend's houses and watched them play 0:00:30.880 --> 0:00:33.560 with it. And the thing is, you could cause all 0:00:33.680 --> 0:00:35.760 sorts of chaos with it, Like you could log on 0:00:35.840 --> 0:00:38.360 for free and uh this is when a L was 0:00:38.440 --> 0:00:40.960 charging you by the minute, and you could do various pranks. 0:00:41.040 --> 0:00:43.280 But one of the least used and most powerful things 0:00:43.280 --> 0:00:45.080 you could do was create a user name with a 0:00:45.240 --> 0:00:46.880 O L in it. What do you mean, like you 0:00:46.880 --> 0:00:49.440 you couldn't use AOL in your name? No, So that 0:00:49.520 --> 0:00:52.000 was one of the things that AL used to protect itself. 0:00:52.040 --> 0:00:54.680 But through ao hell, you could sign up as like 0:00:55.080 --> 0:00:57.680 a O L cop thirteen or a O L Guide 0:00:57.720 --> 0:01:00.200 twenty six, and you could make yourself to see even 0:01:00.280 --> 0:01:03.720 like this legit agent of the company, and my friends 0:01:03.800 --> 0:01:06.720 used to use this mercilessly. What were they doing, like 0:01:06.760 --> 0:01:10.240 stealing credit cards or what I mean, we're not thieves, 0:01:10.360 --> 0:01:14.080 Like my friends would use it for pranks. So so often, 0:01:14.120 --> 0:01:15.800 like my power would go into a chat room where 0:01:15.840 --> 0:01:17.840 it was clear that like thirteen year old boys were 0:01:17.880 --> 0:01:22.000 trading photos of like scantily clad ladies, and and he'd say, 0:01:22.040 --> 0:01:24.840 this is a O L cop thirteen, You've been busted. 0:01:25.160 --> 0:01:28.880 And then he'd say, unless you write me a one 0:01:28.880 --> 0:01:31.679 page apology for your actions, your parents will be notified 0:01:31.680 --> 0:01:34.360 and your account will be suspended. And by the end 0:01:34.400 --> 0:01:36.640 of the by the end of the summer, you have 0:01:36.760 --> 0:01:39.280 like a binder full of weird apologies from kids saying 0:01:39.319 --> 0:01:42.560 they'd never trade bikini photos online again and just don't 0:01:42.560 --> 0:01:45.160 tell their parents because they're supposed to be playing math games. 0:01:45.640 --> 0:01:49.240 I mean, that is ruthless, I know, but the whole 0:01:49.240 --> 0:01:51.520 thing did make me wonder, like how much of our 0:01:51.600 --> 0:01:54.440 history is still online and how much does the internet 0:01:54.480 --> 0:01:56.639 know about all of us? And that's what today's episode 0:01:56.640 --> 0:02:19.480 it's all about. Hey, their podcast listeners, Welcome to Part 0:02:19.520 --> 0:02:22.120 Time Genius. I'm Will Pearson and as always, I'm joined 0:02:22.160 --> 0:02:24.440 by my good friend Man Gueshow Ticketer, and on the 0:02:24.480 --> 0:02:26.919 other side of the soundproof glasses our friend and producer 0:02:27.000 --> 0:02:29.920 Tristan McNeil. I don't know if you notice of, but 0:02:30.000 --> 0:02:33.880 Tristan seems to be smirking today. Why is he so smirky? Smirks? 0:02:34.040 --> 0:02:36.080 Good job, Tristan, I guess he's in a good mood. 0:02:36.120 --> 0:02:38.560 But all right, so it's not Halloween yet, but today 0:02:38.560 --> 0:02:40.720 we're gonna be exploring a topic that many of us 0:02:40.760 --> 0:02:43.840 do find pretty creepy, and and that's asking the question, 0:02:44.080 --> 0:02:47.160 what exactly does the Internet know about us? And so 0:02:47.240 --> 0:02:49.720 to find out, we've been combing through user agreements just 0:02:49.760 --> 0:02:52.600 to see what sort of personal information that we willingly 0:02:52.639 --> 0:02:55.120 sign away. You know, these are two our favorite apps 0:02:55.160 --> 0:02:57.960 and websites. And we'll also take a look behind the 0:02:58.000 --> 0:03:00.760 digital curtain of the ad tracking industry, you know, just 0:03:00.800 --> 0:03:02.440 to learn a little bit about how much of our 0:03:02.520 --> 0:03:05.760 online habits reveal about who we are in the real world. 0:03:06.360 --> 0:03:08.560 And this was actually a topic suggested by a listener 0:03:08.560 --> 0:03:10.800 after a trip to the grocery store, and she had 0:03:10.800 --> 0:03:12.720 explained that she had purchased a new type of soft 0:03:12.800 --> 0:03:15.200 drink and then she'd never heard of this drink before, 0:03:15.280 --> 0:03:17.880 and she spotted it there, picked it up, bought it, 0:03:18.000 --> 0:03:20.160 went home. She had never looked it up on her phone, 0:03:20.560 --> 0:03:23.000 never looked it up on her computer. But then later 0:03:23.040 --> 0:03:25.760 she found herself getting ads for this same soft drink, 0:03:25.840 --> 0:03:28.880 and so she was wondering do these offline purchases somehow 0:03:28.919 --> 0:03:31.920 connect with what she's seeing online? And so we're gonna 0:03:31.919 --> 0:03:34.760 be looking into questions like this. But I should take 0:03:34.760 --> 0:03:36.600 a second to say that if you have a question 0:03:36.640 --> 0:03:39.560 you'd like us to consider on a future episode, don't 0:03:39.560 --> 0:03:41.480 forget to reach out to us here. We we'd love 0:03:41.520 --> 0:03:43.400 to hear from you. It's part time genius at how 0:03:43.440 --> 0:03:46.880 stuff works dot com and on our seven fact hot 0:03:46.880 --> 0:03:49.600 line one eight four four pt genius. It is is 0:03:49.600 --> 0:03:53.000 still seven right around the clock. That's amazing. There aren't 0:03:53.000 --> 0:03:57.840 many fact hot lines that seven. It's true, It's true, 0:03:58.120 --> 0:04:00.120 all right. Well, this is also a special up so 0:04:00.200 --> 0:04:02.640 because we're teaming up with one of our favorite podcasts 0:04:02.680 --> 0:04:06.840 to tackle two different but certainly related topics. So that's 0:04:06.920 --> 0:04:08.800 that's right. To help us cope with some of the 0:04:08.880 --> 0:04:11.960 unsettling secrets of online privacy, will be joined by some 0:04:12.000 --> 0:04:15.400 of our favorite people, Ben Bolan, Noel Brown, and Matt Frederick. 0:04:15.680 --> 0:04:18.560 They've joined us on the show before, but as a reminder, 0:04:18.640 --> 0:04:21.240 they're the host of the awesome podcast Stuff they Don't 0:04:21.240 --> 0:04:23.120 Want You to Know, and and this week the guys 0:04:23.160 --> 0:04:25.160 did an episode on whether it's possible to wipe your 0:04:25.200 --> 0:04:27.840 history from the web. So we'll talk to them and 0:04:27.920 --> 0:04:29.640 see if they have any tips they can pass along 0:04:29.720 --> 0:04:31.520 for how to get a little bit of privacy on 0:04:31.560 --> 0:04:34.560 the Internet. But if you're interested in this topic, be 0:04:34.720 --> 0:04:36.840 sure to check out today's episode of Stuff they Don't 0:04:36.880 --> 0:04:38.440 Want You To Know. I love what those guys do. 0:04:38.680 --> 0:04:40.440 They really are some of our favorite people. I know 0:04:40.520 --> 0:04:42.919 sometimes we say that, but they actually are some of 0:04:42.920 --> 0:04:45.599 our favorite people. All them, they're all good guys, all right. 0:04:45.640 --> 0:04:47.640 So I thought we could start with just a general 0:04:47.760 --> 0:04:51.600 overview of what web tracking is and and how it works. 0:04:51.600 --> 0:04:54.039 And so to cover the first part of that, you know, 0:04:54.120 --> 0:04:56.520 just just stop and think about the time you've googled 0:04:56.560 --> 0:04:59.520 something like, you know, things to do in Denver, and 0:04:59.520 --> 0:05:01.599 then the next time you've used Google, you've got a 0:05:01.600 --> 0:05:03.760 bunch of ads that that you know, are trying to 0:05:03.760 --> 0:05:06.000 convince you to book a flight to Denver or something. 0:05:06.040 --> 0:05:08.400 Like that. Or maybe you've watched a Star Wars trailer 0:05:08.440 --> 0:05:10.760 on YouTube and then you sign on to Facebook later 0:05:10.800 --> 0:05:13.520 that night and your news feed contains a target ad 0:05:13.560 --> 0:05:17.000 for a brand new Star Wars video game. And I 0:05:17.040 --> 0:05:19.400 think most of us know by now that those early 0:05:19.440 --> 0:05:22.599 appropriate ads they aren't by chance, and they're the result 0:05:22.640 --> 0:05:26.080 of web tracking, which is it's one a series of companies. 0:05:26.120 --> 0:05:29.479 They work together, they share information, They've compiled all this 0:05:29.560 --> 0:05:32.479 information on consumers, and this is for the sake of 0:05:32.560 --> 0:05:36.880 tailoring advertisements to suit specific people. So, Mango, I know 0:05:36.920 --> 0:05:38.960 you engab did a bit of digging on this, and 0:05:39.080 --> 0:05:40.920 so why don't you give us a breakdown on on 0:05:40.960 --> 0:05:43.960 how all of this works. Sure? Well, there are actually 0:05:44.000 --> 0:05:46.640 a few different methods that companies used to gather information 0:05:46.680 --> 0:05:49.400 about people online, and one of them is this process 0:05:49.440 --> 0:05:53.800 called canvas fingerprinting. Basically, websites have this feature written into 0:05:53.839 --> 0:05:56.240 their script so that when you visit the site and 0:05:56.360 --> 0:05:58.760 asked your browser to draw a hidden line of text 0:05:59.080 --> 0:06:01.680 or even a three D image, And because of differences 0:06:01.720 --> 0:06:06.000 between browsers and operating systems and computer hardware, the invisible 0:06:06.000 --> 0:06:08.920 image that each device draws will be different. So I 0:06:08.920 --> 0:06:12.480 guess this is where the fingerprinting part comes in exactly. So, 0:06:12.560 --> 0:06:14.760 so the sites that use this method can then share 0:06:14.760 --> 0:06:18.279 these device fingerprints with third party advertising companies and and 0:06:18.320 --> 0:06:20.640 they in turn can use them to identify when and 0:06:20.880 --> 0:06:23.560 how often the same user of the same device returns 0:06:23.600 --> 0:06:26.040 to this site, as well as which other sites they're 0:06:26.120 --> 0:06:28.479 visiting in between. All Right, so you're saying that these 0:06:28.520 --> 0:06:31.400 techniques like canvas fingerprinting, which I've actually never heard that 0:06:31.520 --> 0:06:34.360 term before, but they allow companies to track your browsing 0:06:34.400 --> 0:06:37.279 history all across the internet. So it's not just the 0:06:37.360 --> 0:06:40.920 site where you first have this image drawn, right, Yeah, 0:06:41.000 --> 0:06:43.880 because the advertisers can see these fingerprints on any site 0:06:43.880 --> 0:06:46.520 that allows them. So by looking for which sites the 0:06:46.560 --> 0:06:49.080 fingerprints show up on, the advertiser can start to get 0:06:49.080 --> 0:06:51.400 an idea of who this user is and which kinds 0:06:51.400 --> 0:06:54.159 of products of services they might be most interested in. Actually, 0:06:54.200 --> 0:06:56.720 I'm curious about this. So these invisible trackers, they're they're 0:06:56.760 --> 0:06:59.640 hidden on websites, and they kind of sound like web cookies, 0:06:59.640 --> 0:07:02.320 which we we've all heard of before. Our cookies a 0:07:02.400 --> 0:07:04.599 form of this same thing. Yeah, so that's why I 0:07:04.640 --> 0:07:06.800 thought too. But cookies are these small pieces of data 0:07:06.880 --> 0:07:09.440 that a website stores on the browser, and then recalls 0:07:09.480 --> 0:07:12.320 whenever you return to that specific site. So cookies are 0:07:12.320 --> 0:07:15.040 how your favorite websites remember your name or address, or 0:07:15.080 --> 0:07:18.280 your password, what's in your shopping cart, like all that stuff. 0:07:18.720 --> 0:07:22.240 So they're definitely related to gathering and storing information about users, 0:07:22.240 --> 0:07:25.200 but they aren't directly related to advertising on their own. 0:07:25.320 --> 0:07:27.800 But I do remember Gape saying something about that. Advertisers 0:07:27.800 --> 0:07:30.200 are still interested in cookies today. They find ways to 0:07:30.240 --> 0:07:33.800 make use of them. There's this other process called cookie sinking. 0:07:34.080 --> 0:07:36.520 It's a way that lets companies share the information they've 0:07:36.560 --> 0:07:39.720 gathered about you through cookies, so they can trade notes 0:07:39.800 --> 0:07:41.840 to come up with a clearer picture of who you are. 0:07:42.400 --> 0:07:44.680 All right, So wait, just a method Because all these 0:07:44.760 --> 0:07:47.920 data companies they collect and they share this information, but 0:07:47.960 --> 0:07:50.360 it's it's supposed to be anonymous, right, Like, like based 0:07:50.360 --> 0:07:53.120 on your phone or your computer, they might know where 0:07:53.160 --> 0:07:55.440 you live, or what town you live in, or maybe 0:07:55.440 --> 0:07:57.520 even how old you are, but they still don't know 0:07:57.560 --> 0:08:00.480 your real name or anything too personal out to do 0:08:00.520 --> 0:08:04.360 they Well, it's anonymous to a point. Like if someone 0:08:04.400 --> 0:08:07.800 really wanted to, it's entirely possible to connect someone's anonymous 0:08:07.800 --> 0:08:11.360 cookie data with their real world identity. I mean, we 0:08:11.400 --> 0:08:12.920 see this kind of thing all the time with cases 0:08:12.960 --> 0:08:16.400 of identity theft and hack social media profiles. In fact, 0:08:16.440 --> 0:08:19.280 it's such a plausible danger that computer scientists don't even 0:08:19.360 --> 0:08:22.640 use the term anonymous anymore. Instead, they say that companies 0:08:22.680 --> 0:08:25.960 gather pseudonymous data on their users. Like the whole point 0:08:26.040 --> 0:08:28.640 is that none of us are even anonymous online anymore. 0:08:29.000 --> 0:08:31.040 Like we've really just been given a pseudonym in the 0:08:31.040 --> 0:08:34.280 form of like these device fingerprints or these assigned numbers 0:08:34.400 --> 0:08:37.200 or some other kind of digital trace, which is all 0:08:37.280 --> 0:08:39.199 a little bit creepy. But I mean there's still one 0:08:39.200 --> 0:08:42.200 thing I don't understand, and that's this connection between online 0:08:42.200 --> 0:08:46.280 advertising and the spending we do in physical store. So 0:08:46.920 --> 0:08:48.720 I kind of want to back up to that first 0:08:48.800 --> 0:08:50.480 question that we asked at the very beginning of this, 0:08:50.520 --> 0:08:53.680 and that's whether the Internet knew my friend had bought 0:08:53.760 --> 0:08:56.360 that pack of soda. I mean, it sort of feels 0:08:56.400 --> 0:08:59.280 like it had to know this, right, I Mean, otherwise, 0:08:59.280 --> 0:09:01.559 why after it for the first time, that she suddenly 0:09:01.559 --> 0:09:05.200 have Facebook ads recommending the same product to her. I know, 0:09:05.320 --> 0:09:07.719 And honestly, that's a really good question. I want to know. 0:09:07.800 --> 0:09:10.080 But but before that, I want to know what soda 0:09:10.200 --> 0:09:12.760 she bought. What's the new I can't remember. We gotta 0:09:12.800 --> 0:09:14.320 find out. It's gonna be a big one. Hopefully they'll 0:09:14.320 --> 0:09:18.520 be a sponsor. But it is, you know, I wish 0:09:18.559 --> 0:09:20.719 you could say it's for incidence. It's you know, it 0:09:20.760 --> 0:09:22.840 feels a little strange that she bought the soda for 0:09:22.840 --> 0:09:25.080 the first time, and and maybe that was the same 0:09:25.160 --> 0:09:28.520 day that this big marketing push happened. But you know, realistically, 0:09:28.559 --> 0:09:31.040 the odds were against that. I mean, the major data 0:09:31.080 --> 0:09:34.559 companies gather an insane amount of information about their users. 0:09:34.600 --> 0:09:37.520 And most folks know that search engines like Google or 0:09:37.600 --> 0:09:40.200 Bing or Yahoo like they keep track of what we 0:09:40.240 --> 0:09:44.160 search for, but big data's reach goes so much further. So, 0:09:44.559 --> 0:09:47.520 for instance, like Google not only knows where you've traveled 0:09:47.520 --> 0:09:51.000 thanks to Google Maps and the GPS tracking functions and 0:09:51.000 --> 0:09:53.959 Android phones, but they also know how fast you were 0:09:53.960 --> 0:09:56.320 going on the way there, and the same goes for 0:09:56.360 --> 0:09:59.760 Apple and their iPhone. Of course, this means they likely 0:09:59.800 --> 0:10:02.600 know where you live and work too, since those are 0:10:02.640 --> 0:10:05.560 the places that you're traveling between the most often. You know. 0:10:05.600 --> 0:10:08.480 But still, even if my phone and by extension Google 0:10:08.679 --> 0:10:10.679 or Apple. You know, they knew I was at the 0:10:10.679 --> 0:10:13.320 grocery store, how would they know what I bought? And 0:10:13.360 --> 0:10:16.120 then and then how would Facebook find out about that? 0:10:16.480 --> 0:10:19.000 So Gave did some heavy lifting on this and and 0:10:19.200 --> 0:10:22.800 uh and in his research on Facebook, it turns out 0:10:22.880 --> 0:10:24.920 they're actually ahead of the curve in terms of the 0:10:24.960 --> 0:10:27.520 depth of data they collect on their users, as well 0:10:27.559 --> 0:10:30.080 as in how they collect it. And the key to 0:10:30.080 --> 0:10:32.959 that is an advertising tool called Atlas that the company 0:10:33.040 --> 0:10:35.839 unveiled back in two thousand fourteen. So, according to the 0:10:35.920 --> 0:10:38.640 vice president of ad Tech of Facebook, the Atlas system 0:10:38.679 --> 0:10:41.680 can match the phone numbers and email addresses of Facebook 0:10:41.760 --> 0:10:45.120 users with the phone numbers and email addresses that consumers 0:10:45.120 --> 0:10:48.680 provide in physical stores. All right, So when the stores 0:10:48.720 --> 0:10:51.640 ask for our email addresses or phone numbers that check out, 0:10:51.679 --> 0:10:54.200 it's so that they can then sell that information to Facebook. 0:10:54.280 --> 0:10:56.080 Is that that's the only reason they do this, well 0:10:56.360 --> 0:10:59.280 kind of, I mean, sometimes that info is used for 0:10:59.280 --> 0:11:02.280 that particular doors marketing purposes, you know, to email you 0:11:02.360 --> 0:11:06.000 their monthly newsletter or coupons or whatever. But they're all 0:11:06.120 --> 0:11:09.280 kinds of data collection companies that act as middlemen between 0:11:09.440 --> 0:11:13.800 retail stores and online platforms. So, for instance, Facebook partners 0:11:13.800 --> 0:11:15.920 with a company called Data Logics to get all its 0:11:15.920 --> 0:11:18.320 store related info. Okay, so I got it. So I 0:11:18.360 --> 0:11:20.680 scanned my grocery store club card, or I gave the 0:11:20.679 --> 0:11:24.360 cashier my email address, and that information, along with the 0:11:24.440 --> 0:11:28.080 purchase connected to it, was then passed along the Data Logics, 0:11:28.080 --> 0:11:31.040 who then shared it with Facebook's advertising system, which you've 0:11:31.080 --> 0:11:34.480 told us is called Atlas. That's right, exactly, So Atlas 0:11:34.600 --> 0:11:37.120 knew that the person with your email address purchased a 0:11:37.160 --> 0:11:40.000 new kind of soda that store, and from there, all 0:11:40.000 --> 0:11:42.080 I had to do was compare that address with the 0:11:42.080 --> 0:11:44.560 one you've linked to your Facebook account and presto, Like 0:11:45.040 --> 0:11:47.640 now Facebook knows just what kind of ad you're likely 0:11:47.679 --> 0:11:49.920 to respond to in your news feed. After all, you've 0:11:49.960 --> 0:11:52.400 already bought that soda once. You know. It's weird because 0:11:52.400 --> 0:11:55.720 I feel like I'm being clever sometimes when I used 0:11:55.800 --> 0:11:58.040 this email address that I had never used for like 0:11:58.400 --> 0:12:00.360 real purposes or whatever, you know, to have to a 0:12:00.480 --> 0:12:04.280 cashier or to sign up for something account right product 0:12:04.360 --> 0:12:06.920 you account. But I'm using the same one for all 0:12:06.960 --> 0:12:09.080 of them, so they're still able to make this connection. 0:12:09.160 --> 0:12:11.800 It's probably the same one that's on my Facebook account, 0:12:11.840 --> 0:12:14.319 you know, So I don't know. I guess. I guess. 0:12:14.320 --> 0:12:17.400 It is a pretty ingenious system from a marketing perspective, 0:12:17.440 --> 0:12:19.720 but you know, not something that's going to generate all 0:12:19.760 --> 0:12:22.319 this enthusiasm or goodwill among the public, at least I 0:12:22.320 --> 0:12:25.280 wouldn't think. Yeah. But here's the creepous part, and and 0:12:25.320 --> 0:12:27.560 that's that Facebook can do the same with ads that 0:12:27.600 --> 0:12:30.480 aren't shown on Facebook. I don't even know what that means. 0:12:32.040 --> 0:12:34.640 So Atlas was made to offer ads on all kinds 0:12:34.640 --> 0:12:37.439 of different websites, not just Facebook, so the company can 0:12:37.440 --> 0:12:40.240 match real world purchases to any ads source from the 0:12:40.240 --> 0:12:43.680 Atlas network, no matter which side it appears on. That's 0:12:43.720 --> 0:12:46.280 not all, though. Facebook can also keep track of its 0:12:46.360 --> 0:12:49.560 users even when they're logged off of the platform. So 0:12:49.679 --> 0:12:52.320 anytime you load a web page that features a Facebook 0:12:52.440 --> 0:12:55.120 like or share button, the company gets in alert about 0:12:55.200 --> 0:12:59.240 who's looking and where, which is basically like every page 0:12:59.240 --> 0:13:01.600 out there internet. It's something I had not thought about. 0:13:01.640 --> 0:13:03.640 I mean, so many of these tracking things they're not 0:13:03.800 --> 0:13:06.640 that surprising, but the the depth of it, I think 0:13:06.720 --> 0:13:08.760 is what's so surprising to me, and that all of 0:13:08.760 --> 0:13:11.520 this seems to happen under the radar. I mean, I 0:13:11.559 --> 0:13:13.680 do feel like most of us have this vague awareness 0:13:13.679 --> 0:13:16.600 of web cookies and targeted advertising and all those sorts 0:13:16.640 --> 0:13:18.640 of things, But I don't know, it's still a little 0:13:18.720 --> 0:13:21.080 unsettling when you start to look into the specifics and 0:13:21.280 --> 0:13:23.840 just how deep it all goes totally. And it only 0:13:23.880 --> 0:13:26.760 gets more unnerving when you remember that Facebook doesn't exist 0:13:26.760 --> 0:13:29.880 in a vacuum. I mean, companies like Twitter and Google like, 0:13:29.920 --> 0:13:32.920 they've all taken notice and developed their own atlas like approaches, 0:13:33.400 --> 0:13:36.880 and uh disability to prove the effectiveness of an online 0:13:36.880 --> 0:13:40.080 ad gives them more bargaining power with potential clients, which 0:13:40.120 --> 0:13:42.400 means the sale and trade of our data that's only 0:13:42.440 --> 0:13:45.080 going to increase from here. All right, Well, well, maybe 0:13:45.080 --> 0:13:46.480 our friends at Stuff they don't want you to know. 0:13:46.520 --> 0:13:48.360 I have some ideas for how to shut off the 0:13:48.400 --> 0:13:51.600 information valves that that are telling these companies so much 0:13:51.640 --> 0:13:53.120 about our lives. So so why don't we go ahead 0:13:53.120 --> 0:14:02.880 and bring them into the studio. Okay, So in this 0:14:02.920 --> 0:14:05.920 episode we've been talking about all the things the Internet 0:14:06.040 --> 0:14:08.000 knows about us, and as we mentioned at the beginning 0:14:08.000 --> 0:14:10.560 of the show, our friends over at Stuff they don't 0:14:10.600 --> 0:14:13.120 want you to know, are actually talking about how to 0:14:13.160 --> 0:14:16.560 remove that information off of the web or or wherever 0:14:16.600 --> 0:14:18.920 it is sitting. And we're joined by two thirds of 0:14:18.960 --> 0:14:21.240 the crew, Ben Bulling and Matt Frederick. Welcome to Part 0:14:21.240 --> 0:14:25.520 Time Genius. Yeah, thanks so much, you guys. We were 0:14:25.720 --> 0:14:30.800 really excited to explore this, and uh, it's fascinating, if 0:14:31.000 --> 0:14:34.880 a little bit unsettling, a little bit a lot of it. 0:14:35.200 --> 0:14:39.280 Thank you, even even hearing just tidbits from you guys 0:14:39.280 --> 0:14:42.000 as you're talking about putting the episode together. I typically 0:14:42.000 --> 0:14:44.280 don't consider myself a paranoid person, but it was hard 0:14:44.320 --> 0:14:46.200 not to go down that path. I think I'm okay. 0:14:46.200 --> 0:14:48.080 But if you could give us just a little bit 0:14:48.120 --> 0:14:49.880 of an overview of what you guys have been looking 0:14:49.920 --> 0:14:54.680 into for the episode. Sure, we looked at a pretty 0:14:54.760 --> 0:14:57.760 basic question, or so we thought in the beginning, which 0:14:57.960 --> 0:15:05.000 was can you delete your online footprint, your your personal data. 0:15:05.080 --> 0:15:09.080 We we stumbled on the phrase the digital you, because 0:15:09.120 --> 0:15:14.000 there's there's so much information and so many leavings of 0:15:14.080 --> 0:15:18.640 all your time brushing through the internet, right Uh, And 0:15:18.840 --> 0:15:23.040 what we found was that there is no silver bullet, 0:15:23.560 --> 0:15:28.160 and uh, you must be very very careful with the 0:15:28.320 --> 0:15:33.560 types of terms that are used by various online entities, 0:15:33.560 --> 0:15:37.560 whether they are a private or a public organization. Yeah, 0:15:37.600 --> 0:15:40.360 specifically terms of services. What been is talking about here, 0:15:41.040 --> 0:15:43.120 that little thing that you go, yeah, I accept that 0:15:43.200 --> 0:15:46.080 you scroll through. Maybe maybe it makes you scroll to 0:15:46.120 --> 0:15:48.720 the bottom of the page, just hit it and go okay. 0:15:48.800 --> 0:15:52.200 Has anyone ever read an entire terms of service? I 0:15:52.240 --> 0:15:54.960 mean that's the that's the whole thing, right, Yeah, I did. 0:15:55.200 --> 0:16:00.440 I did once when my cable was out if pager 0:16:00.560 --> 0:16:02.200 so you could kind of get through. It wasn't even 0:16:02.280 --> 0:16:05.040 in my house, it was at someone else's house. If 0:16:05.040 --> 0:16:06.360 I had brought a book, I wouldn't have read the 0:16:06.480 --> 0:16:11.280 terms made for a much smarter digital you. So envious 0:16:11.280 --> 0:16:13.640 of your digital you. So one of my favorite things 0:16:13.680 --> 0:16:16.480 that I heard you guys talking about was about your 0:16:16.560 --> 0:16:18.760 A O L account and Matt, you are actually looking 0:16:18.880 --> 0:16:22.960 to go back and delete or cancel your ao L account. 0:16:23.200 --> 0:16:25.760 I was like, what are we having this conversation? So 0:16:25.880 --> 0:16:31.600 let's go back to two thousand five six Old Matt 0:16:31.680 --> 0:16:34.480 Frederick is in a band, and every band at that time, 0:16:34.600 --> 0:16:40.400 what do they have? My Okay? Well, also my my 0:16:40.560 --> 0:16:44.440 email since n seven has been through a O L 0:16:44.560 --> 0:16:48.200 at this time, So for some reason, I just stuck 0:16:48.280 --> 0:16:50.160 with A O L because my parents had it and 0:16:50.160 --> 0:16:52.440 I just kept going with it. Anyway, my my Space 0:16:52.480 --> 0:16:55.120 page was linked to my A o L account, so 0:16:55.160 --> 0:16:58.640 in order to like find my old password and reset 0:16:58.680 --> 0:17:00.400 it for my Space, had to get in my AOL 0:17:00.480 --> 0:17:06.080 email and then realized this is still here now the 0:17:06.119 --> 0:17:10.960 one good thing and my ex girlfriend is still email. Well, 0:17:11.040 --> 0:17:13.359 the one good thing is that the A o L service, 0:17:13.359 --> 0:17:15.520 if you have a free account, they disable your account 0:17:15.520 --> 0:17:17.920 after I think a hundred eighty days of an activity 0:17:18.520 --> 0:17:21.440 that you you're not getting emails anymore, but it's still 0:17:21.480 --> 0:17:23.200 there and if anyone wanted to get in there, and 0:17:23.280 --> 0:17:27.280 my personal information is still inside the profile, which made 0:17:27.280 --> 0:17:30.960 me super nervous because I haven't looked at it since then. Anyway, 0:17:31.119 --> 0:17:33.159 you try and delete the thing. To get rid of 0:17:33.160 --> 0:17:36.040 the A o L and the my Space my Space 0:17:36.040 --> 0:17:39.560 relatively easy. But the A O L one they're supposed 0:17:39.600 --> 0:17:42.200 to be a cancel your account little icon that you 0:17:42.240 --> 0:17:45.800 can click on in this one specific area. It wasn't 0:17:45.840 --> 0:17:48.760 there on the three browsers that I attempted to use, 0:17:49.440 --> 0:17:51.359 and maybe a little nervous, so I called up a 0:17:51.480 --> 0:17:55.880 o L with my phone? Can you believe that? Yeah, 0:17:56.160 --> 0:17:59.240 I got ahold of somebody. He officially deleted it, and uh, 0:17:59.359 --> 0:18:01.159 I can still log in right now, which makes me 0:18:01.200 --> 0:18:05.080 super nervous. We'd like to make fun of you for that, 0:18:05.119 --> 0:18:07.919 but you're looking at two people with a Yahoo and 0:18:08.280 --> 0:18:13.879 uh stategy. We need to pull that up at some 0:18:13.880 --> 0:18:16.400 point to see if it still exists. That's pretty great 0:18:16.400 --> 0:18:17.920 and I'm glad to hear A O L is still 0:18:18.000 --> 0:18:19.479 up to their old tricks. I remember when you used 0:18:19.520 --> 0:18:21.320 to try to cancel after you get the free disc 0:18:21.400 --> 0:18:23.840 and sign up for however many hours, and they were 0:18:23.880 --> 0:18:25.840 just awful when you would call and say that you're 0:18:25.880 --> 0:18:29.000 ready to cancel. I remember, I remember like begging a woman. 0:18:29.080 --> 0:18:30.760 I was like, I know you're reading off a script, 0:18:30.800 --> 0:18:35.200 just like please skip to like mine pages almost in tears, 0:18:35.359 --> 0:18:39.480 and it's very much like a it's it's oddly like 0:18:39.520 --> 0:18:42.960 a breakup. And in many cases, you know, and uh, 0:18:43.119 --> 0:18:46.280 the old adage is true, breaking up is hard to do, 0:18:46.359 --> 0:18:49.920 but in these cases it's um you run into some 0:18:50.560 --> 0:18:54.040 misleading and pernicious things. Right. It's it's a point that 0:18:54.080 --> 0:18:57.880 we've made it on our episodes before that your account, 0:18:58.119 --> 0:19:01.399 your personal information and your use of whatever you know, 0:19:01.800 --> 0:19:05.680 page or whatever app. It's highly valuable to these companies. 0:19:05.720 --> 0:19:07.800 You were talking about it friends, though, One of the 0:19:07.840 --> 0:19:10.240 things you guys talked about was the fact that even 0:19:10.240 --> 0:19:13.200 if you don't have a social media profile, if you 0:19:13.240 --> 0:19:16.119 are in your friends phones or whatever, it may be 0:19:16.280 --> 0:19:19.240 your your phone number, your address, anything like that, it 0:19:19.320 --> 0:19:22.040 doesn't mean that you're not out there and that your 0:19:22.080 --> 0:19:24.800 digital you is still is still out there. So can 0:19:24.800 --> 0:19:27.120 you talk a little bit about yeah, you're digital. You 0:19:27.560 --> 0:19:32.560 will still exist in perhaps somewhat of a less substantial form. So, 0:19:33.280 --> 0:19:37.840 for instance, if our co host and colleague Noel Brown, 0:19:38.359 --> 0:19:41.360 uh did not have a Facebook for some reason, he's 0:19:41.400 --> 0:19:43.159 actually the most likely of the three of us to 0:19:43.200 --> 0:19:46.560 have a Facebook. You would agree with if Nol didn't 0:19:46.600 --> 0:19:51.320 have a Facebook, but Matt or I had the Facebook 0:19:51.320 --> 0:19:53.080 app on the phone, or one of you guys did 0:19:53.119 --> 0:19:57.480 have the app on your phone, then depending on your 0:19:57.560 --> 0:20:00.520 OS or the type of phone you're using, the app 0:20:00.600 --> 0:20:04.080