Speaker 1: Welcome to All the Smoke, a production of The Black
Speaker 1: Effect and our Heart Radio and partnership with Showtime. Welcome
Speaker 1: back to another episode of All the Smoke, Season three.
Speaker 1: You're good, You're ready, ready to row, skiddy man. We
Speaker 1: got a very special guest today, one of my brothers,
Speaker 1: someone who I look up to in the space on hanging.
Speaker 1: I'm a'm part of the team right now. So when
Speaker 1: I look up to in the space who is continuing
Speaker 1: to open up doors, breakdown walls, raise the bar in
Speaker 1: this entertainment space that he's come for in the Hollywood
Speaker 1: movie space, Welcome to the show. Dion Taylor. All right, man, man,
Speaker 1: what's up? Brother? Right now? I'm here, but here we
Speaker 1: finally got you here, man, We appreciate it. How do
Speaker 1: we meet? I don't recall how we met? Do you
Speaker 1: remember how we met? In passing through Bobby? Might have
Speaker 1: been through Bobby first Bobby Jackson, and then we just
Speaker 1: some something in that world some of the King's world. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I got a chance to meet Dion, and uh, you
Speaker 1: know my transition from basketball, I wanted to be in
Speaker 1: the content creation space TV movies production and Dion was
Speaker 1: in it. And someone who had a similar background. You know,
Speaker 1: just kind of started taking me under his wing and
Speaker 1: tell me about projects, let me come and shadow home
Speaker 1: and really kind of a lot of people talk about,
Speaker 1: you know, let me show you how to do it,
Speaker 1: let me show you this, but Dion is someone who
Speaker 1: actually does it. Man. So I had a lot of
Speaker 1: appreciation for you and your wife Rock saying and and
Speaker 1: and the way you guys have always welcomed me around
Speaker 1: things and and taught me the game. So I appreciate that. Man.
Speaker 1: Always family. Man. Yeah, we're gonna start us off just
Speaker 1: like this, right, That's how we gonna start it off
Speaker 1: to getting to the money. Alright, what say, what roles
Speaker 1: you out for me in your movies coming out? I
Speaker 1: know you got all kind of movies coming out. What
Speaker 1: roles do you have for me to go? We gotta
Speaker 1: we gotta talk about it, man, but I will tell
Speaker 1: you this, I will have a role for you both
Speaker 1: of them. Obviously. You know, were getting ready to do
Speaker 1: the Peeweek Kirkland story. Man shout out to Peewee man
Speaker 1: uh to live in legendent legend of two games. But yeah,
Speaker 1: definitely man, next summer New York. You gotta be there, man,
Speaker 1: I'm there. Uh, let's get it started. Uh, born in Chicago,
Speaker 1: grew up in Gary, Indiana. Um, talk to us about
Speaker 1: your upbringing, your family dynamic, and uh what was like
Speaker 1: growing out out there? I mean it was it was
Speaker 1: a tough time at that time in Gary. Yeah. Well,
Speaker 1: well you know, people that don't know Gary, you know,
Speaker 1: probably know the history of Gary, which was for a
Speaker 1: long time. Gary was the murder capital for a very
Speaker 1: long time. But at the center that it's just good people,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. You don't really know the
Speaker 1: environment you in when you're in it, you know, it's
Speaker 1: it's it's later when you leave you'll be like, damn.
Speaker 1: It was like that. It was like that. But I
Speaker 1: was actually blessed man. My tired family is still there,
Speaker 1: but I was blessed enough man for my mom at
Speaker 1: an early age to be like she getting me and
Speaker 1: my brother out of there, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: So it's an interesting story my mom actually, Um, I
Speaker 1: was playing ball there. I went to West Side play
Speaker 1: au basketball with Glenn and you know the whole thing.
Speaker 1: Man was living my life there and um, you know,
Speaker 1: low income housing, project housing, same old thing. And my
Speaker 1: mom ended up playing the numbers. Uh, my ninth grade
Speaker 1: year and and one of the numbers one thirty, and
Speaker 1: bought a car and drove us to California. That's the
Speaker 1: real story, man. She packed us up, packed the dog up.
Speaker 1: She was like, y'are not gonna be here. But that
Speaker 1: was after you know, we had one of my cousins
Speaker 1: went to jail for life, murder, um, a bunch of
Speaker 1: you know, just violence man all around. And like I said,
Speaker 1: you don't really understand the violence when you in it,
Speaker 1: but then when you remove yourself, you're like wow, like, yeah,
Speaker 1: you can't go to that project, can't go to that
Speaker 1: side of the street. You know, mean you just kind
Speaker 1: of know what it is. And I went to California.
Speaker 1: A coach hooked me up out there. It was like,
Speaker 1: you know, you're gonna play here. Got to Cali. I
Speaker 1: think my ninth grade year was like this, ain't it.
Speaker 1: I had never been around like white people, you know,
Speaker 1: different nationalities. I went back. Yeah, I went back, and uh,
Speaker 1: when I got back this time, I was like I
Speaker 1: gotta go back there. I was like I gotta go
Speaker 1: back out there, just because you know, I understood after
Speaker 1: leaving and coming back that you know that world was different,
Speaker 1: So California was a blessing to me. Man, But I'm
Speaker 1: back in Gary all the time. Just was there, just
Speaker 1: was in Chicago for the last seven weeks shooting the
Speaker 1: finale of Power. That was dope to just be here,
Speaker 1: to go back home and see my sister, hang out
Speaker 1: with everybody and be back in the environment I came from.
Speaker 1: But don't just breeze over what you were doing out there.
Speaker 1: You said you shot the finale of Power. Talked to
Speaker 1: us a little bit about that. Now you can't give
Speaker 1: us much. But who's whose finale was it? Man? It's
Speaker 1: Tommy Man. Tommy's back. Man. Shout out to Joseph coor Man,
Speaker 1: m you shout out the fifty cent Joseph Cord, that
Speaker 1: whole team. Man. But yeah, I was driving on the
Speaker 1: freeway man um three months ago and the phone went
Speaker 1: off in his fifty and I'm like, what's going on.
Speaker 1: He's like, you want to come shoot the finale Power?
Speaker 1: And I'm like, uh, let me think about it. Like no,
Speaker 1: I'll be right there. But it was great man, great show,
Speaker 1: great people. And that was my first time doing television.
Speaker 1: So for me going into television, you know from a
Speaker 1: from a cinematic standpoint, being a film director, it was
Speaker 1: an interesting play for me. Man. But then I understand
Speaker 1: later why Joseph and why fifty wanted me there, because
Speaker 1: the finale is always like the big events, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean. So I was blessed enough to be
Speaker 1: able to shoot that show in a cinematic way, in
Speaker 1: other words, being able to hold scenes, you know, intros, outros,
Speaker 1: and normally TV is choppy, but the finale felt like
Speaker 1: a movie. We're gonna get into your process and your
Speaker 1: story and all that kind of ship. But do you
Speaker 1: ever just sit back and pinch yourself, like, damn, no
Speaker 1: one wanted to let me in and now just produced
Speaker 1: excuse me? Directed that the Power finale? And I have
Speaker 1: more projects than I can ever imagine being pulled so
Speaker 1: many different ways, Like did you obviously you wanted to
Speaker 1: get here, but did you ever picture it really happening?
Speaker 1: I did? Man? You know, I think that's what's really
Speaker 1: cool about being a dreamer, you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: Like when you really are out here and you really
Speaker 1: going through the nose, you know what I mean? And
Speaker 1: you know we didn't been through some real ship, man,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean? And I think that's why
Speaker 1: my perspective is a lot different than a lot of people.
Speaker 1: Like we were told no for years and years and years.
Speaker 1: We were told not good enough, we were told that's
Speaker 1: not a good idea, you know. And I think through
Speaker 1: basketball and coming from where I came from, perseverance has
Speaker 1: always been part of our DNA, just like the two
Speaker 1: of you, you know what I mean. Like we've been
Speaker 1: told no so many times. We've had the lights off,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. We've had the moments with
Speaker 1: no shoes. So you somebody in Hollywood be like, no,
Speaker 1: I don't think we want you right now. You're like,
Speaker 1: all right, We'll said somebody else over there body, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean. So you always are looking for
Speaker 1: another angle, And um yeah. Now now when I look back, man,
Speaker 1: think about some of the things that we've accomplished, you know,
Speaker 1: from an independent standpoint, you know, we're almost two hundred
Speaker 1: million dollars in box office receipts um independent independent twelve movies.
Speaker 1: It's been great, man. But I don't I don't never
Speaker 1: I'm still kind of figuring out, like how do I
Speaker 1: get better? I'm still trying to figure out how do I,
Speaker 1: you know, do better? Than what I've been doing, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean. So I never looked back and
Speaker 1: be like, damn, we killed that, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: I'm more like, now, what can I do now? Because
Speaker 1: I still haven'tgotten where I want to beat, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean. So you know when you I feel
Speaker 1: like when you look back, that's when you crash. Yeah,
Speaker 1: talk about playing basketball professionally in the NBA Entertainment League,
Speaker 1: blue chip basketball prospect um. Man, I mean basketball in
Speaker 1: my life until I just hurt my knee, so I'll
Speaker 1: be back in January. I no, it's my it's my life. Man.
Speaker 1: I was. I was, like I said, I was blessed
Speaker 1: enough man to to find that sport. You know, for
Speaker 1: a lot of people. Man, while I speak so Holliya
Speaker 1: by basketball is because it's a it's a passport to
Speaker 1: life for a lot of us. I never would have
Speaker 1: been able to go see any parts of the world
Speaker 1: growing up, or get free shoes, or go on trips
Speaker 1: on buses or you know what I mean, get the
Speaker 1: backpack in the sweatsuit. But basketball provided all of that,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. So it becomes a fraternity.
Speaker 1: Whether you made to the NBA or played overseas like
Speaker 1: me or not. It's like it's a fraternity once you
Speaker 1: really play at that level. But um, it was great.
Speaker 1: Man had to you know with San Diego State ended
Speaker 1: up getting the contract to play overseas, was in Europe
Speaker 1: for a while, played in Germany. Um, and that's really
Speaker 1: where I found film. Uh, in East Germany Man, the
Speaker 1: middle of the middle of the winner and slow up
Speaker 1: to the door, and you know, all you could do
Speaker 1: was practice and then go home. And I remember sitting
Speaker 1: there and at the time Roxand who was now my wife,
Speaker 1: was my girlfriend, now my producing partner. She was sending
Speaker 1: me movies and uh, I would watch those movies. And
Speaker 1: you know this before Netflix and all y'all young, see
Speaker 1: y'all young, before all this, before all the digital age.
Speaker 1: So I would uh start watching that's right. So I
Speaker 1: would start watching the making up, and uh, I became
Speaker 1: fascinated with how films were being made versus watching them.
Speaker 1: And uh that's when I got the bug. Man. I
Speaker 1: remember coming back and um at the time, my brother
Speaker 1: Ethan was playing for the Atlanta Falcons, and I was like,
Speaker 1: and I got an idea for a movie. Out of everybody,
Speaker 1: I told the idea too. He was the one that like, man,
Speaker 1: that's really good. Yeah, and then I did. Everybody started
Speaker 1: being like a movie a movie. And then before I
Speaker 1: know it, man, I was writing, I wasn't going back overseas,
Speaker 1: and I was like literally became fascinated with film. And
Speaker 1: that's how it started. So that was the turning point
Speaker 1: right there. Obviously we know it's a how what was
Speaker 1: the process you start writing? Walk us through your process. Now, Okay,
Speaker 1: I played basketball my whole life. I feel like I'm
Speaker 1: done with that because I have a new passion. Talk
Speaker 1: to us about that journey. Well, you gotta be a
Speaker 1: little bit crazy, right, but that's what that's with everything.
Speaker 1: You gotta be a little bit off your rocker to
Speaker 1: you know, jump off of bridge like I got an idea,
Speaker 1: but then you find out later in life, like, man,
Speaker 1: that's what you're supposed to be. Uh, no experience, no
Speaker 1: film school. East Germany became my film school, watching those movies,
Speaker 1: watching those DVDs, doing that type of energy. But the
Speaker 1: process was very simple. Man, I didn't know what the
Speaker 1: hell I was doing. So the first script I wrote
Speaker 1: was on a me tablet. So I wrote the whole
Speaker 1: movie out like a book. And then I was around
Speaker 1: pitching it to people and the people was like, man,
Speaker 1: that's pretty good. Some people I made you crazy. I
Speaker 1: made you trying to make win them little movies. I
Speaker 1: was like, you're trying to make win them little movies?
Speaker 1: You know, you do all of that. And then eventually
Speaker 1: that became like a three or four year run where
Speaker 1: you know, you ran out of money. You then came
Speaker 1: to Hollywood a bunch of times. You'd knocked on every door,
Speaker 1: you know, and people have told you no. You know,
Speaker 1: I became a professional meter you have you have you
Speaker 1: ever met a professional meet? I mean you meet people
Speaker 1: for fun, like you just hey, you want to meet,
Speaker 1: like just sit there and talk to people over and
Speaker 1: over again. And didn't. At that point. It was like
Speaker 1: we had the door slammed on us so many times
Speaker 1: and everybody kept saying no to us so many times
Speaker 1: that we had no choice but to tell ourselves yes.
Speaker 1: And then one dude, this is how my whole life changed.
Speaker 1: This guy who was actually a bad dude, bad track record,
Speaker 1: terrible person, found out all this beast about this due
Speaker 1: but I got the best advice in the world from him.
Speaker 1: I had exhausted myself, man, we were like, I had quit.
Speaker 1: I was done. I had the same movie that had
Speaker 1: been pitching for three or four years. And he was like,
Speaker 1: you know, ain't nobody gonna make that movie for you? Right?
Speaker 1: And I was like, you know, I mean that man,
Speaker 1: you know damn well, we're trying to meet you out
Speaker 1: here trying to do it. And he was like, the
Speaker 1: only way you're gonna get your movie made if you
Speaker 1: make it yourself and I and I had never heard
Speaker 1: that because I was not a film person, So I
Speaker 1: was like, what do you mean. He was like, do
Speaker 1: you know what the producer does? And I was like, yeah,
Speaker 1: the producer, they make the movie. They get to that.
Speaker 1: He said, the producer produces the money. And I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: they produced the film. And that's when I went, Yo,
Speaker 1: this is crazy. So he was like, steady, you running
Speaker 1: around asking these people to make your film with your
Speaker 1: hat in your hand, Go find your money and make
Speaker 1: your own film. And that completely changed my life. That
Speaker 1: was two thousand seven, and I was like the whole
Speaker 1: game changed at that point, because now I'm not asking
Speaker 1: you to make a movie. Now I'm trying to find
Speaker 1: an investor to give me the money to make the
Speaker 1: film and that's a completely different animal. And that's what happened. Man,
Speaker 1: I think two thousand and ten, two thousand and eight,
Speaker 1: two thousand and nine, I was blessed enough to meet
Speaker 1: Robert Smith, Um, who you know a lot of people
Speaker 1: now know, the richest African American man in the world.
Speaker 1: And Um, I met him and he asked me two questions,
Speaker 1: where do you see yourself in five years? And what
Speaker 1: do you want to be? And I thought to myself
Speaker 1: the first time I met him, like, Yo, this dude tripping.
Speaker 1: You know what I mean? Like, no one asked those
Speaker 1: questions for real. And I'm like, you know, explain to
Speaker 1: my sifment I want to be. I want to be
Speaker 1: a label in an age, I want to I want
Speaker 1: to be a boutique film company, and I want to
Speaker 1: be one of the best directors out and I want
Speaker 1: to do it differently than anybody else. He was like,
Speaker 1: what does that mean differently? I said, I want to
Speaker 1: do all the genres. And at the time, you know,
Speaker 1: that was my mentality and that's what I was after.
Speaker 1: And I hadn't seen any black filmmakers during that time
Speaker 1: do horror, comedy, thrillers, any of that, and Uh, I
Speaker 1: didn't realize how unique that was until I went down
Speaker 1: the path. Who are your film influences? Spike Lee, John
Speaker 1: Singers in etcetera? And specific films are song or artist?
Speaker 1: Who inspired you to? Who expired you to? MoU John?
Speaker 1: You know, I knew John very well us in Peace
Speaker 1: Incredible man. Um, I only got to know him for
Speaker 1: a short time. I met John in a very weird way.
Speaker 1: I met John at an event and uh, I had
Speaker 1: ended up talking about a couple of films that I
Speaker 1: was trying to put together at the time, and Free
Speaker 1: Agents was one of those films. And I had just
Speaker 1: finished doing a movie called Supremacy rehearsal Ali and Danny Glover,
Speaker 1: and I was getting washed with that film. Man like,
Speaker 1: we had made this incredible movie and we could not
Speaker 1: find a distribution for at home. For I'm like, man,
Speaker 1: what is going on? He pulled me to the side,
Speaker 1: was like, man, this is just what the business is
Speaker 1: for you as a black filmmaker. And Um, a couple
Speaker 1: of months later, I was like, I don't want to
Speaker 1: do no more serious films. I would have did this
Speaker 1: movie Meet the Blacks. And John was the first person
Speaker 1: to call me Opening night and meet the blacks and
Speaker 1: sent me a picture of the ticket. He was like, nigga,
Speaker 1: just the funniest shit out of sea. And I remember
Speaker 1: just being like, damn, this is crazy. Got on the
Speaker 1: phone with him and you know, and kept in touch
Speaker 1: with him. But he was always a great person in
Speaker 1: terms of like not always, but over the course of
Speaker 1: time he would always pop up at the right time
Speaker 1: to say something great, you know what I mean. And
Speaker 1: but John is a huge influence because I love what
Speaker 1: he was about. But I really really love you know,
Speaker 1: I love the the branding of Tyler Perry obviously, you know,
Speaker 1: doing in his own way, building his own thing. But
Speaker 1: I'm a giant Stephen Spielberg fan, man um. You know,
Speaker 1: I think Spielberg is incredible just for the simple factor
Speaker 1: when I told you earlier, like I love the fact that,
Speaker 1: you know, although he's not a black man, I love
Speaker 1: that he jumped genres and did it the right way.
Speaker 1: So you think of color per Bowl, think of et
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, Like these are completely different
Speaker 1: films and Jaws, you know, And I just love that. Man.
Speaker 1: I've always been like, man, I'm gonna be ever to
Speaker 1: be that prolific as a black filmmaker in the space.
Speaker 1: What is your If someone were to say, like, DM,
Speaker 1: what's your style of directing or filmmaking, what would you say? Oh? Um,
Speaker 1: overcoming adversity. Um, That's what every film I've made is about.
Speaker 1: So if you think about supremacy, is a black family
Speaker 1: trying to overcome white supremacy. Think about traffic, it's a
Speaker 1: young lady trying to overcome Um, even to the intruder, right,
Speaker 1: intruder is a family trying to overcome evil. So I
Speaker 1: love adversity, and I love you know, I love twists
Speaker 1: and turns. But I'm not a twist person. I'm not
Speaker 1: trying to set my career on every time I make
Speaker 1: a movie it's a twist. I just want to make
Speaker 1: great content. Man. So when you go to movies and
Speaker 1: you spent twenty dollars, you feel like, damn, I got
Speaker 1: something good. That's far Who were some of that? Your
Speaker 1: your favorite people? You've been blessed to work a lot
Speaker 1: of amazing people. Who are some of your favorite people
Speaker 1: to work with? Oh? Man, Um, it's a big list.
Speaker 1: It's a big one. I love Michael Eally. We've done
Speaker 1: a few movies with him before. Um, I've been very
Speaker 1: blessed to be to work with Hillary Swink, Naomi Harris
Speaker 1: um I was you know what was kind of cool
Speaker 1: man for me as a filmmaker. Danny Glover was like,
Speaker 1: you know, he came at a time and these are
Speaker 1: significant things I'm talking about because these are times where
Speaker 1: you gotta remember, I'm not a director, but I'm trying
Speaker 1: to direct the biggest parts of that is people believe
Speaker 1: in enough in you to to do a movie with you,
Speaker 1: or a coach believing in you to give you a
Speaker 1: shot to play right. We're talking about NBA too, right, Like, man,
Speaker 1: I'm really good, but can somebody give me a chance?
Speaker 1: You know what I mean? Acting is like that. You
Speaker 1: need somebody to be like, damn man, that's dope what
Speaker 1: you're doing. And I'm gonna jump in your film and
Speaker 1: if you mess it up, you mess it up, but
Speaker 1: I'm gonna get in. So Hollywood still today, I'm dealing
Speaker 1: with that where people still be like, let me see
Speaker 1: his work. He's like, come on, man, like you serious.
Speaker 1: I've seen guys that have done a three minutes short
Speaker 1: and Brad Pitt in it. You know what I mean,
Speaker 1: You're gonna question me but that's the business. But I
Speaker 1: think Danny Glover always gonna be at an all time
Speaker 1: high for me. He jumped in the first time I
Speaker 1: did it. Uh, interesting enough man rehearsal ali Um, you know,
Speaker 1: before the Oscars and all of that, he was fantastic
Speaker 1: as well. Man, he came in and and and played
Speaker 1: a part of Supremacy that was huge. We ended up
Speaker 1: talking becoming friends on that set. And then after that
Speaker 1: happens that movie happens. Um they're shooting a really cool
Speaker 1: movie and um the Bay Area called Kicks. And I
Speaker 1: remember the producer called me and was like, man, what
Speaker 1: do you think about Rearsallee, Like, we really want him
Speaker 1: to be the leading this movie, I said, And y'all crazy,
Speaker 1: like this the best. You know. I was mad because
Speaker 1: I didn't get to use them how I wanted to
Speaker 1: use him in my film, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: I was like, you gotta get him. And he goes
Speaker 1: on and dust Kicks and just watching the trajectory after
Speaker 1: Kicks was moon like, you know what I mean? And
Speaker 1: the rest is you know that man's history and what
Speaker 1: he's become. But I think that's what's kind of cool
Speaker 1: about films that you get to see people, you know,
Speaker 1: jumping stuff and and see them on the ground two
Speaker 1: and then see them become you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: Hillary Swank was a little bit like that where she
Speaker 1: came and lent her two oscars to Fatale, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean. I remember I was like, Yo, you
Speaker 1: gotta do this movie. It's like I got this guy
Speaker 1: named Michael Eally. She was like, Michael who. I said,
Speaker 1: Michael Eily. You don't know who Michael Eli is. He
Speaker 1: got the blue eyes and she's like, no, I don't know.
Speaker 1: So I see him a piece. Oh he's gorgeous. I
Speaker 1: was like, yeah, but that's what's really dope. She came,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. Naomi Harris had finished, she
Speaker 1: didn't want to act anymore, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: She came and jumped in. Tyrese is one of my favorites,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean? These are people, man, everyone.
Speaker 1: If you see anybody I've ever worked with, they become family. Um,
Speaker 1: just because we don't ever know when we're gonna get
Speaker 1: to do it again. So I'm the last personal set
Speaker 1: like we're doing now, get get over you know. It's like, man, like,
Speaker 1: I'm just honored that you here and respect that you here.
Speaker 1: And you know, I feel like every time I touched
Speaker 1: a camera or a movie set it might be the
Speaker 1: last time based on the fact that how we got
Speaker 1: here and every time I feel like I got lucky,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. So anyways, that's my list.
Speaker 1: Evolution of television from when you were growing up to
Speaker 1: the present day. It didn't It didn't change, right a lot.
Speaker 1: Man when I was when I was younger, Man, like
Speaker 1: we had t G I F Thank God is Friday.
Speaker 1: That was the A team that was that was night Rider.
Speaker 1: Um yeah, man, I'm a I'm like, you know, TV
Speaker 1: used to be different man, Mr T and and Undercats.
Speaker 1: You had he Man, you know what I mean, Like
Speaker 1: um Lionel Man. I mean I remember I always just rushed.
Speaker 1: I remember I remember Batman the cartoon first started. I
Speaker 1: remember I would rush want to be like that and
Speaker 1: this like you, it was like a movie to you.
Speaker 1: But now it's at changed, man, now they you know,
Speaker 1: I think TV has changed in an incredible way based
Speaker 1: on the fact that it's now molded to spectrums of people,
Speaker 1: so it no matter who you are, there's something for you.
Speaker 1: Television used to be, you know, one size fits all,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. So if you got a team,
Speaker 1: you know, it was the black dude, and there was
Speaker 1: the white dude, and there's the Jewish guys. Like that
Speaker 1: was it, you know what I mean. But now it's
Speaker 1: like you if you're you know, black, there's some black shows,
Speaker 1: you white, his white shows, if you gave his gay shows.
Speaker 1: It's like it's a plethora of things. And then every
Speaker 1: now and he gets something to come. But I also
Speaker 1: think TV is transformative. Um so it's like the Wire.
Speaker 1: You know, if you remember the Wire, what that it
Speaker 1: during that time and how incredible that was. I was
Speaker 1: like before it's time, you know what I mean? Um
Speaker 1: But yeah, I think TV is gonna keep changing and
Speaker 1: becoming whatever we wanted to be there. Look at this,
Speaker 1: we don't y'all want TV. Matt Barns and Jack on TV.
Speaker 1: I'm like, Yo, this is crazy. I mean, you've got
Speaker 1: a taste obviously, you know, finding your route in your
Speaker 1: foundation and filmmaking. You've crossed over a little bit and
Speaker 1: done television. Obviously they're a huge difference. Do you see
Speaker 1: yourself doing anymore television or you No? I think I
Speaker 1: think it's great, man. I think the space is great.
Speaker 1: I love that you could just kind of do it
Speaker 1: and and and and be done, if that makes sense.
Speaker 1: Film film, you live with it, man. I'm still living
Speaker 1: with traffic, you know what I mean, Like, I'm still
Speaker 1: figuring out where that's gonna go. You know, next year,
Speaker 1: what network it will be on or you know, Like
Speaker 1: film is a different beast. Television is kind of dope, man,
Speaker 1: because you know, you do it, they're gonna air it
Speaker 1: and then it lives there. That's it, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean. Film Man, you make a movie independently, you
Speaker 1: like you like praying to God it opens, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean. You're laying in the bed the night
Speaker 1: it comes out, you worry about what the critics go.
Speaker 1: Like it's just like it's a whole world that goes
Speaker 1: with it, you know what I mean. And uh, television
Speaker 1: not fine, It's like it's it's it's it's very therapeutic
Speaker 1: because you get to do the craft that you love.
Speaker 1: But at the same time, I can leave it there
Speaker 1: being told no a lot obviously made you want to
Speaker 1: start building your own Talk to us about the launch
Speaker 1: of the Hidding Empire Film Group. Man, Hidden Empire Um
Speaker 1: Film Group. Man like It's just a film company made
Speaker 1: a people that just had dreams. Shout shout the team, out,
Speaker 1: Shout out to rock sand who's here. Oh mam my brother. Um.
Speaker 1: Our entire team is just made of underdogs, man. Like,
Speaker 1: we are all the people that you know, like you,
Speaker 1: We're the people that was told no. We're the people
Speaker 1: that didn't have an opportunity. We didn't go to film school.
Speaker 1: We just love film. We just love movies. And we
Speaker 1: was like, Yo, we're gonna be rebels and do that ship.
Speaker 1: And uh, we got here by number one being passionate,
Speaker 1: more passionate than most of the people we ever meet.
Speaker 1: You know, we've We've had twenty hour days on movie sets.
Speaker 1: We've had twenty two hour days on movies sets where
Speaker 1: people have pulled the plug and walked off, and I'm like,
Speaker 1: we can't never come back, So I gotta get it all.
Speaker 1: I gotta get it all man, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: So we just live in that world man to where
Speaker 1: like I just told you a moment ago, everything we
Speaker 1: do we have to do it because we don't know
Speaker 1: if there will be another chance to do it. So
Speaker 1: we try to lead by example in terms of like
Speaker 1: hidden Empire represents people that I like to call our light. Um.
Speaker 1: We feel like what you put into the universe is
Speaker 1: what you get back out. So we try to just
Speaker 1: lead with kindness, UM, lead with integrity, you know, make
Speaker 1: sure that our words are buying when we say we're
Speaker 1: gonna do something. But more importantly, man, if you get
Speaker 1: on the set or a movie with us, like we're
Speaker 1: gonna give you every thing we have. They didn't have
Speaker 1: to drag me off set a few times. Man, where
Speaker 1: you know I'm like delirious because I didn't shot so much,
Speaker 1: or you know, did nineties setups in the day, or
Speaker 1: because like I said, it's it's he's been. The film
Speaker 1: is like the super Bowl, right, So pre production is
Speaker 1: like the season, so you're like getting ready everything is,
Speaker 1: you know, you're putting all this stuff together and then
Speaker 1: it's like the day you say, action is game time.
Speaker 1: Like that's like it's everything in one So it's the
Speaker 1: super Bowl to me, so it's like you gotta win, right.
Speaker 1: And we were just talking on the way over here
Speaker 1: that out of twelve and thirteen films, doing this for
Speaker 1: almost fourteen years, I've never had one reshoot. Like every
Speaker 1: movie you've ever seen that was it? Like that three
Speaker 1: million dollar movie? You know, and people don't know this,
Speaker 1: you know, like these movies are under five million dollars
Speaker 1: that we're making that an opening number one and number
Speaker 1: two in the world, you know what I mean. Like
Speaker 1: I've never had a budget over ten million dollars. Um,
Speaker 1: I've never had a budget of nine min dollars. But
Speaker 1: but your returns are crazy, returns are crazy. Um, the
Speaker 1: movies are great, you know what I mean. But it
Speaker 1: also puts you where you're like, Okay, I'm done with that,
Speaker 1: Like I know how to make those types of films now,
Speaker 1: I'm ready to go here, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: So Hidden Empires, Uh, that's my life right now, man,
Speaker 1: But kind of explain the business side of that for
Speaker 1: people don't really understand. Okay, so you have the Hidden
Speaker 1: Empire group. Why did you form that? Obviously you were
Speaker 1: told no and you couldn't get distribution. To explain a
Speaker 1: little bit of the business side. So independent film is
Speaker 1: um studios make movies and then they own movies. Right,
Speaker 1: So your work for hire period, no matter how you
Speaker 1: want to dice it up or cut it. If you
Speaker 1: go make Marvel Marvel movie, you're gonna pay you a
Speaker 1: bunch of money. You're gonna get a little bit probably
Speaker 1: if you're great, you're gonna get some back in and
Speaker 1: then it's over. It's theirs forever, forever. Independent film, you're
Speaker 1: the studio. So you make the movie, you create the
Speaker 1: I P. You can then license that I P to
Speaker 1: a studio to put out, but that's your product forever.
Speaker 1: So if you can do that at a high clip,
Speaker 1: then you become an owner, right. And there's a big
Speaker 1: difference between a player and uh and the owner. Right. So,
Speaker 1: and here's the thing. Outside of the black culture, this
Speaker 1: is common. This is common for Jack Nicholson to own
Speaker 1: I P s or you know, or Christopher Nolan to
Speaker 1: own a giant portion of or James Cameron to own
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. It was very unique to us.
Speaker 1: When Tyler Perry came in, it was like he gonna
Speaker 1: do it this way and slap it that way and
Speaker 1: create that he's a billionaire. And what we're trying to
Speaker 1: do is say, it's not militant to be an owner
Speaker 1: of your own brand, right, It's not. You're not. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's spos. It's cool, you know what I mean? Like
Speaker 1: I could work with anybody I want to work with.
Speaker 1: I'm not saying I don't want to work with you.
Speaker 1: We're just saying there are times that we'll do one
Speaker 1: for you, two for them, and then we'll do one
Speaker 1: for us. And the idea is that we need the studios.
Speaker 1: We want to work withever. You have to play well
Speaker 1: in the sandbox. This is about everyone working together, not
Speaker 1: I'm just doing this is my thing and hoarding it.
Speaker 1: M So we're trying to be that breakout company that's like, yo,
Speaker 1: you can do this, own it as African American business people.
Speaker 1: But at the same time we can also partner and
Speaker 1: work with studios or I love being worked for highre.
Speaker 1: I've been in a couple of times, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean. It's great because I get to go over
Speaker 1: there and play with those toys and make those films
Speaker 1: and do something prolific and great for a studio, and
Speaker 1: then I get better and then I go make something
Speaker 1: for myself. Yeah, I want it. Directing your first film film,
Speaker 1: Dead Tom Jesus Doug in The Crazy Dead tone Man
Speaker 1: was the first one. That's my film school man. Shout
Speaker 1: out to Brian Hooks who taught me how to actually
Speaker 1: get a movie up and get a movie made. Um.
Speaker 1: Dead tone was crazy Man. That's the movie I wrote,
Speaker 1: was writing trying to write coming out of coming out
Speaker 1: of Germany. That was the movie. It was just a
Speaker 1: great horror film, man classic. Five kids go up to
Speaker 1: a big, big mansion and at the time, like they prank,
Speaker 1: call a stranger and the stranger calls back and he's crazy.
Speaker 1: Started six didn't come back and it was great, Um,
Speaker 1: great film man. But that film taught me everything I
Speaker 1: needed to know from financing two uh, legal issues to
Speaker 1: you name it. That film and that was the hardest
Speaker 1: film to ever make and the worst film ever made.
Speaker 1: But it was the first film and it's the film
Speaker 1: that I love the most. But it's where you didn't
Speaker 1: know nothing, you know what I mean. You didn't know
Speaker 1: how to do an investment, You didn't know how to
Speaker 1: deliver a movie. You didn't know who to sell it to.
Speaker 1: So that became a seven year project. You got it done. Uh,
Speaker 1: you struck gold with Meet the Blacks. Um, you did
Speaker 1: House next Door Meet the Blacks two, which I was
Speaker 1: involved in. Jack came and kicked in on the set.
Speaker 1: But I think what's even doper about that? As you
Speaker 1: were able to bring Cat Williams and Mike Epps back
Speaker 1: together on one screen. There was obviously a little bit
Speaker 1: of a turmoil between them, but tell us about your
Speaker 1: ability to get both them and then just the process
Speaker 1: of making that and and and successive classic too. Great job, man,
Speaker 1: Thank you for that man. Mike and Cat was that
Speaker 1: was a unique situation. So Mike had did Meet the
Speaker 1: Blacks one, which was, you know, a hit, an independent
Speaker 1: hit movie at open number four in the world independent,
Speaker 1: and we released that movie by ourselves. Correct me from wrong.
Speaker 1: You shot that in your neighborhood, right, The shot that
Speaker 1: where I lived around the corner from the house by
Speaker 1: our house. The twins were little about the twins on set.
Speaker 1: We're in Sack for some reason. He's like, come by,
Speaker 1: she live around the corners. Oh yeah, we're just shooting
Speaker 1: here the around the corner from his house. Whole productions. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Mike and Cat were great. Mike was already there. Um
Speaker 1: I went to Cat because Cat was gonna originally be
Speaker 1: in the first Meet the Blacks. And so when we
Speaker 1: came back around with two, I knew that there was
Speaker 1: a little bit of an energy between the two of them.
Speaker 1: But didn't know what that was. No one really does.
Speaker 1: Let me just hear that. And I went to Cat
Speaker 1: and he was like, man, I'm with it. And then
Speaker 1: I remember calling Mike and being like, man, he was like,
Speaker 1: I'm with it, and and never. It was like two months,
Speaker 1: and I remember the first day was Gary Owen, Little Duval,
Speaker 1: Brecia Webb, Michael Blackson. We was doing a table read
Speaker 1: in Atlanta, and I had been talking to Mike for
Speaker 1: a few months, had been talking to Cat, but they
Speaker 1: had not talked to each other or being around like
Speaker 1: at all. So at this particular table we was gonna
Speaker 1: be the first time Mike and Cat was gonna come
Speaker 1: into the room and read the script, and uh, everything, dude,
Speaker 1: ball was crazy. Like ever, it was like tense for
Speaker 1: some odd reasons. I was just like and Mike got
Speaker 1: there first, and uh, we were all waiting, and obviously
Speaker 1: Cat was like running a little bit behind, remember getting
Speaker 1: the text, and I'm like, Okay, he's gonna come in here.
Speaker 1: And Cat came in and I remember like the whole
Speaker 1: room was like and then Mike was like, what's up, nigga?
Speaker 1: And then Cat was like, what's up, nigga? And it
Speaker 1: was just It was from that point I was like
Speaker 1: whoa and it just was over man. And I would
Speaker 1: tell you this, man, what I think is fantastic about
Speaker 1: both of them as their geniuses, And um, I don't
Speaker 1: think either one of them get the credit that they
Speaker 1: obviously need. And I'm being honest now, man, Like you
Speaker 1: don't know Mike that's been doing that. You don't know
Speaker 1: Cat has been selling out arenas arena not not venues,
Speaker 1: arenas and you know those two man. To me, you know,
Speaker 1: I was blessing up a better work with Cat, Mike,
Speaker 1: Paul Mooney, Charlie Murphy, you know what I mean. And
Speaker 1: and when you start getting into that category, to me, man,
Speaker 1: it ain't but a few more you can name where
Speaker 1: you're like, oh yeah, you know, like who I mean,
Speaker 1: Cat is, you know, and Mike They're up there period.
Speaker 1: You know. They gotta be in your top seven, if
Speaker 1: not your top two, you know what I mean? So uh,
Speaker 1: they were great, man, And they killed that movie every
Speaker 1: day they worked together. They were funny, they the jokes
Speaker 1: were great. The charter is great. And it was the
Speaker 1: first time I got to work with Cat and I
Speaker 1: fell in love with him, man, because I had never
Speaker 1: seen anyone that passionate about film. He was really good man.
Speaker 1: And uh he would come to set when we weren't
Speaker 1: shooting and bring food and you know it's there, ain't
Speaker 1: out like no, the night cat out there in the
Speaker 1: trailer like yo, come get some wings. I was like,
Speaker 1: this is crazy, but it was a blessing man, and um, yeah,
Speaker 1: that was a great film to do, and I wanted
Speaker 1: to do part two. I didn't even have to do
Speaker 1: part two, but I wanted to do part two because
Speaker 1: that's our franchise that we own that, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean, Regardless of what anybody thinks, we own our
Speaker 1: own comedy horror franchise. And a couple of years from now,
Speaker 1: I already know what's gonna happen to phone a ring
Speaker 1: and people like me when they already asked for three.
Speaker 1: But we'll figure that out later. I think to you,
Speaker 1: I don't think you guys take enough credit for creating
Speaker 1: that family environment. Like you said, he wanted to come back.
Speaker 1: I've been on sets before where it's as doing your
Speaker 1: job done. You don't see that person until they shoot
Speaker 1: a few days later, you know what I mean. And
Speaker 1: you guys create a family environment where obviously work is
Speaker 1: gonna get done. But when the cameras cut, motherfuckers, they're
Speaker 1: talking ship to each other, laughing, joking, having a great time.
Speaker 1: You're I'm like, damn, they should be filming this. But
Speaker 1: it's just like it's just it's just to take And
Speaker 1: that's the environment you guys created. It's real people. Man.
Speaker 1: That's how I think. That's how every movie said should
Speaker 1: be because if you really are in a creative environment,
Speaker 1: that's creative, right, it can't be creative when I just
Speaker 1: came here, I've seen music playing, somebody over there dropping
Speaker 1: it like it's hot somebody. That's the environment I want
Speaker 1: to be in. I want to be in a world
Speaker 1: where man, yeah, because you're not afraid to fail, right,
Speaker 1: Like that's my model man, Like you know, acting and
Speaker 1: directing as ugly, you know what I mean. Part of
Speaker 1: it is like let's try something. If it don't work,
Speaker 1: all right, do it again. Like we're trying to be great, man,
Speaker 1: Like nobody got all the answers, especially when you're doing
Speaker 1: independent movies. Man, here's what's crazy. We're working on four
Speaker 1: and five minut dollar movies eight millton nine mint dollars,
Speaker 1: like Black and Blue with Naomi Harrison Tyres like we
Speaker 1: was going hard on that film, you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: only to look up to make a great film that
Speaker 1: I still feel like should have been nominated for a
Speaker 1: lot of stuff. Um. But then when you look across
Speaker 1: the boarding you and you see that the other guys
Speaker 1: that are making these other movies that got fifty million,
Speaker 1: seventy million, sixty Yeah, you know what I mean. You like,
Speaker 1: but we have more fun. We have more fun and
Speaker 1: made a better film, you know what I mean. But
Speaker 1: you know, it's kind of like that creative process to
Speaker 1: be able to do films like that and everyone. You know.
Speaker 1: I talked to Naomi Harris once every two weeks, but
Speaker 1: because of that film, you know what I mean, Because
Speaker 1: she's like, yeah, we gotta like you gotta figure something out.
Speaker 1: And Tires is my brother. I talked to him once
Speaker 1: a week or twice a week, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: Like if it's nothing but a What's app for a
Speaker 1: text just to check in. But it is a family environment, man,
Speaker 1: and that's how it's supposed to be. Um. Because you
Speaker 1: know that big money is gonna come knock on one day.
Speaker 1: You don't have to tell us. But if someone came
Speaker 1: to you with a hundred million dollar budget. Do you
Speaker 1: have a hundred million dollar idea movie idea? Boy? Do
Speaker 1: I no? No, no, you know what, man, I do.
Speaker 1: I have a few ideas like that. Um, I tell
Speaker 1: you what I would love to do, Man, I would
Speaker 1: love to get into either the d C space or
Speaker 1: the Marvel space, you know, just for one of them things. Man,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, there's some cool stuff coming up. Man,
Speaker 1: Like right now. I know they got like the Captain America.
Speaker 1: They said, it was like I didn't know I was
Speaker 1: watching something the other day. There's sixteen hundred Marvel characters.
Speaker 1: Sixteen hundred, so they could give us one man. They
Speaker 1: give us one right, give us man, give us one man.
Speaker 1: You're set to direct Freedom Ride based on the historical
Speaker 1: life of yours, Congressman John Lewis, You've uh praise a
Speaker 1: great team. You put a great team together. Talk to
Speaker 1: us about that project and and what drew you to it,
Speaker 1: John Lewis, UM Good Trouble, Good Trouble one of the
Speaker 1: most iconic figures we've ever had. Um So, this story
Speaker 1: was brought to me um uh by company called Indie
Speaker 1: Company and uh Matt Rhodes and Kim Leftford and Cameron
Speaker 1: Mitchell brought me this project. And when I got the project,
Speaker 1: I didn't realize at the time that attorney Ben Crump
Speaker 1: was attached and the estate was attached, and uh, man,
Speaker 1: I was just honored, you know, we had that. I've
Speaker 1: been doing a lot of work as an activist for
Speaker 1: a very long time, Me and my wife and my partners,
Speaker 1: like we all are on the ground daily. And we
Speaker 1: led to George Floyd March in Sacramento, which you know,
Speaker 1: broke the record out there. I think we had sixty
Speaker 1: three thousand people showed up and then we got eight
Speaker 1: hundred and ninety thousand people to vote through bo Vote.
Speaker 1: Already shot the John Lewis No, No, it's getting ready
Speaker 1: to come up. So what ends up happening is they
Speaker 1: bring the project to me and I'm like, it's time
Speaker 1: to do it, you know what I mean. Like, so
Speaker 1: finished the script about two or three weeks ago. Uh.
Speaker 1: The ideas to be in production here November December, Atlanta
Speaker 1: and probably New Orleans. Yeah, I'll be right there are
Speaker 1: definitely gonna be but that that but that movie, man,
Speaker 1: Like you know, as we talked about film, we laugh
Speaker 1: about different things like that movie. Right there is the one,
Speaker 1: man where you know, when someone bestows that type of
Speaker 1: honor on you to do that, that's when you got it.
Speaker 1: You gotta shut everything down. As a matter of fact,
Speaker 1: I just did a thing a couple like a week ago,
Speaker 1: Like that's it like for me for the rest of
Speaker 1: the year, Like that's cool to do this, that all
Speaker 1: that's great, But this is the one, man, like, we
Speaker 1: don't get to redo this. And and most of the times, man,
Speaker 1: when we get to make historic films like that, we
Speaker 1: don't get to make them. Someone else is telling our story.
Speaker 1: Somebody's telling our story and they and they watching the story,
Speaker 1: you know, making it be whatever this might be or
Speaker 1: that might be. I wanted I want this one. When
Speaker 1: I'm done, there should be no question and how a
Speaker 1: biopic should be done. There should be no question on
Speaker 1: what it meant to have that story as a filmmaker,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. So this's the one for me, man,
Speaker 1: I'm I'm gonna I'm gonna give everything I have to
Speaker 1: make it right. There's a lot writing on that. Being
Speaker 1: a former athlete, is I mean, is there pressure in
Speaker 1: spaces like this, Like what kind of what comes with that.
Speaker 1: I mean you could, like you said, this is a
Speaker 1: you don't you don't get a chance to make it
Speaker 1: something like this again, this is a one and done.
Speaker 1: A lot is going to be writing on it. Do
Speaker 1: you it's a pressure that comes with that, or it's
Speaker 1: a good feeling, like what is your mind set with
Speaker 1: It's a great feeling, man, I think that. Look, you
Speaker 1: always nervous, you know, planning the find those playing the championship,
Speaker 1: whatever it is. You're gonna be nervous. But you've been
Speaker 1: doing this your whole life. What you make love to you,
Speaker 1: you make love to it, right, That's right? Man. So
Speaker 1: I feel the same. I feel the same way. Like
Speaker 1: there's I'm not scared at all, Like I'm like I'm ready.
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm more excited about it, Like I'm like, yo,
Speaker 1: bring But that also comes from me being ready to
Speaker 1: do this, you know what I mean? Like there has
Speaker 1: been situations year ago where I'm like, damn it, why
Speaker 1: I didn't get that? But now when I look back,
Speaker 1: I was like, man, you weren't ready for that ship,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. You weren't ready to do
Speaker 1: no movie like that at that time, Like six years ago,
Speaker 1: I wasn't ready to do Black and Blue, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean? Or you know, But but my work
Speaker 1: and my effort in terms of getting better and working
Speaker 1: at it. It's like sports. Now you're like, oh, I
Speaker 1: can shoot that, I can play with them, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean? So I feel like now I can
Speaker 1: play with anybody, you know. I mean similar getting too
Speaker 1: the NBA. I mean a lot of people come into
Speaker 1: both of our spaces talented, but you don't understand the
Speaker 1: space until you have some years in it. Period. Oh,
Speaker 1: you've done the reps right right. You gotta do the work, man,
Speaker 1: you gotta do the work. They can't, they can't. I've
Speaker 1: seen a few people get a couple of hundred minu
Speaker 1: dollar movies and you see they weren't ready for that.
Speaker 1: You've seen it. You've been to like, damn, who did this?
Speaker 1: You know what I mean? Like how they do that? Like, No,
Speaker 1: they weren't ready for that. And that's not a knock
Speaker 1: against nobody. It's just the fact that you got to
Speaker 1: really do the work because when they when they when
Speaker 1: the cameras and the lights come on, the actors show up,
Speaker 1: have you been here? Do you know what you need?
Speaker 1: To be doing period, no matter if you got a
Speaker 1: million dollars or twenty million dollars. So that's kind of
Speaker 1: approach it that way, like, man, I'm I'm more than ready. Man.
Speaker 1: It's dope. You have some more up and coming stuff.
Speaker 1: You told us some stuff off camera. Um, but talk
Speaker 1: to us a little bit about free agents. I think
Speaker 1: when you told me about this idea and then I
Speaker 1: saw that you attached fifty two, and I'm like, this
Speaker 1: ship is about to be inside fifty man, shout out
Speaker 1: fifty on the show. We almost had him locked in,
Speaker 1: but he was too busy this round. We're gonna get
Speaker 1: him soon. You gotta you gotta like catch fifty like
Speaker 1: you gotta catch him man, like you know in front,
Speaker 1: liked where is he at? Like you he would just
Speaker 1: readily pop up. No free agents man, Uh, second string
Speaker 1: NFL players that rob banks while they're on the road.
Speaker 1: Carnal that it's cold man, but yeah, we um we up.
Speaker 1: Dante Sperodia is shooting the movie man, the cinematographer that
Speaker 1: shot heat. He's funny here, he's right, I've seen him.
Speaker 1: He's around a lot of your Yeah, he's a beautiful man.
Speaker 1: It's Michael Man, cinematographer, and I wrote this man a
Speaker 1: letter five or six years ago and he went and
Speaker 1: met him. Seventy three year old Italian man lives in
Speaker 1: Italy and uh me and him fell in love and
Speaker 1: he's done the last three movies. For me, it's been
Speaker 1: pretty crazy. Man. But the insider heat last of the
Speaker 1: Mohicans Aunt man in the wash Um you know, Gigantic
Speaker 1: dude h Narnia you know. Um. Anyways, this movie is crazy.
Speaker 1: Fifty is like a like a Denzel character in Training Day.
Speaker 1: His name is Rush Daniels. He's on his way out
Speaker 1: the league and basically he's lost all his money to
Speaker 1: bad investments and a bad money manager who is Deontaylor.
Speaker 1: Outside of filmmaking, Oh man, I'm this is it a hooper? Hooper? Man?
Speaker 1: I really every time you left every time like damn
Speaker 1: am I oh am I done? I don't know. No,
Speaker 1: this what you see is what you get. Man, I'm
Speaker 1: this guy all the time. UM. I think that's what's
Speaker 1: kind of cool about building yourself is you don't have
Speaker 1: to be no one else, you know. Um. I love
Speaker 1: the game. I love my family more you know than anything.
Speaker 1: But at the same time, man, I understand what time
Speaker 1: means and and and what family means to all of this.
Speaker 1: So I kind of take the film thing where it's
Speaker 1: like it's my passion. It has replaced Hoop, if that
Speaker 1: makes sense. Like I never thought I would ever say that,
Speaker 1: but it's like I love it that much. But what
Speaker 1: you see is what you get, because if if you're
Speaker 1: anything else, then real they you ain't gonna make it. Brother,
Speaker 1: you ain't gonna make you know, Yes, I first at
Speaker 1: the podcast, I was still playing basketball, still playing the
Speaker 1: Big Three. But as of now, this is my baby.
Speaker 1: This is I love more than anything. You can tell.
Speaker 1: You can tell that the the same reps that you've
Speaker 1: been taking the basketball your whole life, now you're doing
Speaker 1: it here. And what's crazy is you don't get that
Speaker 1: opportunity to you forty plus years old, do you know
Speaker 1: what I mean? Like, like, that's what's crazy, man, is
Speaker 1: that this has never been offered to us. So when
Speaker 1: you was younger, nobody ever said, Matt Man, you can
Speaker 1: own your own production company. And like like, we don't
Speaker 1: know none of that ship man. It's like we we're
Speaker 1: this is why we're so behind. And while we're trying
Speaker 1: to fight so much to get where we need to go,
Speaker 1: because it's now your job to tell the twins, your
Speaker 1: job tell your kids, Like, you know, you want to
Speaker 1: be a director, you know what I mean. I didn't know.
Speaker 1: I didn't know my calling would be film. I knew
Speaker 1: every film in high school I would quote the films.
Speaker 1: I would get kicked out of class for screaming like
Speaker 1: Onno Schwarzenegger, Predator, doing Eddie Murphy, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: But no counsel of academy is like, man, you interested
Speaker 1: in film, That's what's crazy, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: Or that dude that's beating on the table rapping at
Speaker 1: lunch time to me and you both know, ain't no
Speaker 1: counsel and said, hey, man, let me you should take
Speaker 1: a music music class, and you know, it's like, no,
Speaker 1: get your ass out, you know what I mean. So
Speaker 1: it's kind of like now to be able to just
Speaker 1: to to create worlds that kids understand what you're doing
Speaker 1: at an early age actually could be a real career
Speaker 1: for you. Well, they're just not you know that It's
Speaker 1: not just music or basketball no more nothing, you know,
Speaker 1: I mean, there's so many way and that's one of
Speaker 1: the main reasons why I started the Twins podcast and
Speaker 1: it's taken off, and obviously shout out the Malcolm team
Speaker 1: and Malcolm family for helping me do that, but showing
Speaker 1: them at the age you know, ship me and Jack
Speaker 1: got into the weird damn near forty, you know, the
Speaker 1: Twins got into it when they were eleven, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean. So it's starting to build that and
Speaker 1: then all the producing another show for them as well,
Speaker 1: so just kind of getting them behind the scenes. Like
Speaker 1: I mean, sports is great, but there's just so many
Speaker 1: more things you can do. And like you said, we
Speaker 1: had very few options coming up, like you got into space,
Speaker 1: Like all we had was hoop, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: But to open those doors at an early age and
Speaker 1: let you know you could be anything you fucking want,
Speaker 1: That's right. That's what I think. It's our job, with
Speaker 1: the opportunities now to open those stores for people and
Speaker 1: just say it. I mean, the easiest thing is just
Speaker 1: say it, Like don't nobody even say it when you're younger,
Speaker 1: like man, you can do anything you want to do,
Speaker 1: Like you would hear that on the commercial, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean. But most people in in our neighborhoods,
Speaker 1: you know, because they didn't do it, so they don't
Speaker 1: have a road map, you know what I mean. Like
Speaker 1: that's why I feel like the hate come is like
Speaker 1: here you are trying to do something and all these
Speaker 1: casts before you ain't never do this today. Yeah whatever,
Speaker 1: So it's like damn man, Like you know, so I
Speaker 1: think just saying it, man, but you're not just saying that,
Speaker 1: You're actually putting energy and effort into the words. So streight, Um,
Speaker 1: you spoke on family, your producing partners, your wife, what
Speaker 1: is that dynamic? Like dope is that? Jesus? It's great.
Speaker 1: It's great because she's also my best friend. Um. You know,
Speaker 1: it's crazy man, because during the pandem me um, there
Speaker 1: were so many people divorcing, you know, because it was
Speaker 1: because the first time, the first time it was around heat.
Speaker 1: I was hearing all these stories and people was like, man,
Speaker 1: like I didn't even know who I was living with,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, yo, that's crazy. Like I just felt
Speaker 1: so blessed man, because like you know, I was able
Speaker 1: to be with the woman that was my friend, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean. So yeah, first, so the pandemic
Speaker 1: to us was like we was kicking it, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean. And it's great because she's a lot
Speaker 1: smarter than me. You know, I'm just a creative hound
Speaker 1: man and she's a very book smart, you know, very organized.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna quarious man, I'm all over the place. I'm
Speaker 1: going left, I'm going right, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: She's the other side of that, you know. So she's like,
Speaker 1: you gotta focus and do this now, and I'm like, okay,
Speaker 1: I'll do that. But it's fantastic because we don't get
Speaker 1: in each other's way ever. She lets me be the
Speaker 1: director and I let her be the producer. Now, when
Speaker 1: it comes to producing stuff, we produced differently. You know.
Speaker 1: She knows how to physically produced a film. I know
Speaker 1: how to physically produced. Like the money and the capital talent,
Speaker 1: you know what i mean. All starts working together. And
Speaker 1: what a great year this has been, man like for
Speaker 1: the first time, like we've been doing this for a
Speaker 1: long time and she just started getting all the recognition
Speaker 1: that she needs. She got a little card deal, go
Speaker 1: a little card with got a Bentley deal. Yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: sitting there and she get the car like, oh, that's
Speaker 1: Badley for me, Like, no, it's Billy for you like
Speaker 1: the doors opened the off. She was the first black
Speaker 1: woman to be given a marketing campaign from Bentley exactly. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and look big shout out to Bentley for that, man,
Speaker 1: because what they realized was and they didn't want no rapper,
Speaker 1: they didn't want no athlete. They wanted a woman that
Speaker 1: built herself, sell made. And it was rocks In. Man.
Speaker 1: I was like, Yo, this is crazy. What's crazy? And
Speaker 1: that was when they really came and shot the Bidley commercial.
Speaker 1: I was like, and I was an extra. Yeah, yo,
Speaker 1: stand back there and hold the kids. I'm like, you know,
Speaker 1: I was like, dude in the background, you have to
Speaker 1: ask the bar of the car. Yeah. Yeah, and I
Speaker 1: and I got to drive it once. Yeah. Yeah, that's great.
Speaker 1: But yeah, talk to us about that magical day of
Speaker 1: burger king how this all got started. Man, come on,
Speaker 1: what was your game? What was your game? Like, I
Speaker 1: want to hear what did she want to whop her
Speaker 1: with cheese? No? I said that shape? He said shape.
Speaker 1: That's dropped that line. Now. I was like buying some
Speaker 1: food and she was at the back on the fries
Speaker 1: and she was like, who is that? She saw you?
Speaker 1: She wasna that cl she better come on I went
Speaker 1: to burn King with a whole bunch of my friends. Man,
Speaker 1: it's like ten of us in a in a geo storm,
Speaker 1: you know how it is. Man Like we're coming from
Speaker 1: the hood, bouncing in there. We do whatever, and I'm
Speaker 1: like all of us was looking at her, like, yo,
Speaker 1: who is that? You know what I mean? Did? I
Speaker 1: ended up doing what I do, hung back for a minute,
Speaker 1: played you don't play the back. Finally I was like,
Speaker 1: you know, get I'm not that light skinned, man, I'm
Speaker 1: actually kind of l skin. You got light skin moves,
Speaker 1: I got a couple of moves. I got a dark soul.
Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, man, I'm actually happy I got that
Speaker 1: phone up. But changed my life. How much of the NBA?
Speaker 1: Do you watch? All of it? Man? Um? It's so
Speaker 1: easy now with all the technology now, I mean nothing,
Speaker 1: you can't miss nothing, you know, even if you miss
Speaker 1: a game. It's like NBA TV, online, Instagram. It's like
Speaker 1: everybody posting this. It's pretty great. But I think it's
Speaker 1: great about the NBA right now? Man? Is that? Um?
Speaker 1: I just love man to stand that the league took
Speaker 1: during the George Floyd movement. Man, Like I thought a
Speaker 1: lot of people don't understand how powerful that was. Straight up.
Speaker 1: They caught a lot of flat four the things that
Speaker 1: they did, from shirts, two shoes to right on the
Speaker 1: court to the hundred million dollars. But you know it
Speaker 1: took a lot. Man, And shout out to my brother
Speaker 1: Kenny smith Man, like I love Kenny and I love
Speaker 1: what inside the NBA was doing it during that time,
Speaker 1: Like Kenny got up and walked out like it. I
Speaker 1: like what the NBA did, man, So they're gonna I'm
Speaker 1: gonna always support that brand, you know what I mean. Um,
Speaker 1: we do need more black coaches, you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: We need all of it. But I think it can
Speaker 1: get there because they have the door open and they're
Speaker 1: listening and they're trying to figure out how to do
Speaker 1: what they need to do. And that's big man for
Speaker 1: organizations like that. You know, you think about NFL, Ain't
Speaker 1: no movement, right, So while we sitting up here doing
Speaker 1: all that, like, ain't no movement, you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: Every now and then they'll throw something out there like yo,
Speaker 1: how about that, like ain't no movement? Man? When you
Speaker 1: see black coaches can't get no job, Guys getting put
Speaker 1: off the team it's like politically, man, they haven't made
Speaker 1: any to me. I haven't seen any strides where you're like, yo,
Speaker 1: that's dope. They actually really did that, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean. But the NBA did a really really good
Speaker 1: job of, you know, getting behind the culture. Who in
Speaker 1: the n B A do you remind yourself your kind
Speaker 1: of game? You got to compare your game to someone.
Speaker 1: Come on, don't do that question because he said he
Speaker 1: was braun. So he didn't, Yes, he did. He didn't
Speaker 1: say this game was like bro. That's why I asked.
Speaker 1: I want to laugh when I hear these. Maybe you'll
Speaker 1: be man, I don't know. You know what, I'll tell
Speaker 1: you this. I don't know, man, you know what my
Speaker 1: younger days, man, I was more like a Derek Os Okay, okay,
Speaker 1: yeah yeah, I mean, y'all can check it out. I jumped.
Speaker 1: Check it out. I jumped to forty two. But I
Speaker 1: want every national dunk contest there was, so I was
Speaker 1: a very explosive to guard. I just shoot no jumpers.
Speaker 1: I want to dunk over the mouth, that's all, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean. But later on developed a really
Speaker 1: really good jump shot. That's how I got paid to play.
Speaker 1: But the athletic side of it was my claim to fame.
Speaker 1: Like even when I think they just had like the
Speaker 1: top dunkers in the country. You on that list. I
Speaker 1: was on that list. You was on that list, Matt. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but the day I used to be able to bounce
Speaker 1: a little bit. But I think that. But but what
Speaker 1: I have learned, like as I got old, I'm trying
Speaker 1: to show my son now like I never like below
Speaker 1: the rim guys like you ought to be like then
Speaker 1: they don't even jump high. But they played the longest
Speaker 1: because we you know, I'm so you were up alow
Speaker 1: the room guy. But but but you don't have me
Speaker 1: once in a while on you because no, he'll punch you.
Speaker 1: But but yeah, all that jumping and all that man,
Speaker 1: like I feel it every day now, I'd be like, damn, man,
Speaker 1: my knee, my ankle on my back. I'm like, I
Speaker 1: remember when I was younger, I hear my dad grunt
Speaker 1: getting up, sitting down, Like I'd be always grunting. Now
Speaker 1: it's just natural. I sit down, wake up, anything I
Speaker 1: move as a grunt. I'm like, okay, I know with them,
Speaker 1: I don't know why my fun my dad was grunting,
Speaker 1: but I know why I'm running, Like what the fund
Speaker 1: is going on? My body is just not moving anyway. Man,
Speaker 1: quick hitters. First thing to come to mind were winding
Speaker 1: up the show right now. Five most impactful films in
Speaker 1: your opinion? Oh um oh man, Full Metal Jacket, recently
Speaker 1: Predator for my own my own reason, Um Hours Classic,
Speaker 1: Nick Nelton, Um, you know the way they used to
Speaker 1: talk in the movies to back the fucking crazy if
Speaker 1: they would come out today, stuff they were saying, jeez, braveheart, Okay, damn,
Speaker 1: this is tough. That last spot, Boys in the Hood Classic.
Speaker 1: I go with them. Five like that, all different genres
Speaker 1: soon pretty much your dreamcast to work with. Name five people, dreamcast.
Speaker 1: You know you don't have to put me on, uh,
Speaker 1: dream people. I would love Will Smith, Um, this would
Speaker 1: never happen. Daniel day Lewis because he's done acting and
Speaker 1: he's arguably the greatest act of all time. Denzel for sure. Um,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna throw Kevin Hard in there. I really like
Speaker 1: I don't know him. I've never met Kevin Hard, but
Speaker 1: I really like him. Energies great da. I would have
Speaker 1: similar energy like every time you both you guys walking
Speaker 1: the room and you have no choice but to smile.
Speaker 1: Kevin Hard I would love to work with him. And
Speaker 1: then I think my last I said Denzel right, and
Speaker 1: then I think my last person would have to be
Speaker 1: Um right now, Violin Davis. Davis, Yeah, different. I like
Speaker 1: that said at any courtside NBA game in the history
Speaker 1: of the NBA court side in any game in the history,
Speaker 1: not in any finals. That was quick. Yeah, I would
Speaker 1: have loved to see that. That was bull that was
Speaker 1: Bulls and Jazz. Yeah, I would love to see that.
Speaker 1: I would love to see that show Like that game
Speaker 1: to me, like if because I grew up in Chicago,
Speaker 1: so we've seen every game like w G N like
Speaker 1: it was that was it, Like I feel so lucky
Speaker 1: to be able to do that. But that game, for instance,
Speaker 1: like it was just so like iconic and it still is,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. It's like the flu game
Speaker 1: is the shoe, it's the shot. It's like it was
Speaker 1: like the whole world can't come, you know, the combination
Speaker 1: of everything into one. So I would love that seen that.
Speaker 1: If you could be on any movies that ever, how
Speaker 1: would it our faut? What would it be? Any movie set? Ever?
Speaker 1: Oh man, I would I would have loved to see. Um,
Speaker 1: I would have loved to be on the set of
Speaker 1: Eyesweight shut Stanley Kubrick. That's such a crazy ass movie, man,
Speaker 1: Like I would just want to see and not they
Speaker 1: shot that movie. I think over the course of a year,
Speaker 1: Like I would have loved to just see what was
Speaker 1: happening there with time. Yeah, like that's just an eccentric,
Speaker 1: crazy movie. Uh. Five dinner guests dead are alive? Oh man,
Speaker 1: Um Sydney Portier, Um, Eddie Murphy, five dinner guess um Dad,
Speaker 1: that's good, met Dad are alive. I would have loved
Speaker 1: me tupap. I would have loved just met him and heard,
Speaker 1: you know, just um. One of the people would have
Speaker 1: been Robert Smith, but I know him like um and
Speaker 1: sounds Robert when other people would have been nipped. But
Speaker 1: I met him and knew him. He was awesome. I
Speaker 1: wish we could have made a film together. I think
Speaker 1: the other two people would probably be Eddie Murpher. I mean, uh,
Speaker 1: Richard Pryor. That would be awesome of course, and uh
Speaker 1: probably I would have liked to have Matt Robin Williams. Okay,
Speaker 1: I just just misses out fire as itself that's funny
Speaker 1: as hell. Crazy is here. You want to be missed out?
Speaker 1: Fire you crazy man before Jack gets the last question.
Speaker 1: I mean, since you're in this your favorite movie, we
Speaker 1: didn't ask you that your favorite name? Favorite movie? You
Speaker 1: can't really, okay, I tell you, I mean you name impactful, Like, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's too many movies that, like, you know, I mean,
Speaker 1: too many movies, man, it's too like I would. I
Speaker 1: would obviously go with forty Hours is like one of
Speaker 1: my favorite like if it comes on, if it comes on.
Speaker 1: I was just telling. I was just saying this like
Speaker 1: it's like it's gold man. It's like you can't that
Speaker 1: in trading places like training places and all. You're crazy
Speaker 1: if you turn the town. I mean, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean. It's just he was. He was just that great.
Speaker 1: You know what I mean? He was just that great man.
Speaker 1: I didn't I tell you I got some My chick
Speaker 1: is outside. Yeah, but you wouldn't know that because you're
Speaker 1: a big bad white man. The whole movie is great.
Speaker 1: Just anything Eddie Murphy eighties class classic. Last question, you
Speaker 1: can have a guest on All the Smoke? Who would
Speaker 1: it be? But you gotta help us get that guests
Speaker 1: on here. Oh man, um fifty cent fifty. You know what,
Speaker 1: I'll pick three people and I'll help all three. He's
Speaker 1: really gonna help. But you know why I'm gonna pick
Speaker 1: the three. I don't y'all real pot. We got him
Speaker 1: on the show, but they've real pot. We got I'm
Speaker 1: on the show, but they're real home boys. I'm gonna
Speaker 1: pick three people because they should be on the show,
Speaker 1: because I think they're they're their interview will help Cates
Speaker 1: fifty and Robert Smith. Yes, yes, three would be great
Speaker 1: on here just because of their stories. Either one of
Speaker 1: them would be great. I'm a bag for y'all. Come on,
Speaker 1: you gotta do the bab jack good and begging too.
Speaker 1: He might get off segment, but it wasn't going well.
Speaker 1: He's gonna start. He gonna start begging as soon as
Speaker 1: we get off. Think he wanted he want to get
Speaker 1: on that big screen. Anyone who's gonna help you get
Speaker 1: a scene. It will be the person we interviewing today.
Speaker 1: Told you Pete kirkly Man, we gotta do that. I
Speaker 1: got to be a part of that. I'm ready. That's
Speaker 1: gonna be amazing. Man. Yes, well, Dian Taylor Man, we
Speaker 1: Appreciate you, man, You appreciate you. Man. Love to see
Speaker 1: your journey man, And like I said to getting a
Speaker 1: chance to meet you a long time ago and when
Speaker 1: ship wasn't going good and just to see you be
Speaker 1: able to perseveale and now have everything of your own
Speaker 1: with you and Rock Sand and your team and built
Speaker 1: this beautiful man in and again, how you when you
Speaker 1: say you're gonna do something, you do it when you
Speaker 1: when you mentor when you open those doors. It's the
Speaker 1: family environment and we don't get that all time, especially
Speaker 1: you know how in this Hollywood ships and man, we
Speaker 1: want to thank you for being you, thank you for
Speaker 1: coming through and keep being great. Man. Oh man, appreciate you.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much. Man. You got to wrap. Dion Taylor.
Speaker 1: You catch us on Showtime Basketball, YouTube and the I
Speaker 1: Heart platform Black Effects. We'll see you all next week.
Speaker 1: This is all a smoke a production of The Black
Speaker 1: Effect and our Heart Radio in partnership with Showtime