1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:04,400 Speaker 1: Fellow Ridiculous Historians. Welcome to this week's classic episode. Now 2 00:00:04,480 --> 00:00:06,720 Speaker 1: we want to let you know at the top, this 3 00:00:06,800 --> 00:00:09,920 Speaker 1: is an interview. It's a very exciting one for us, 4 00:00:09,920 --> 00:00:11,680 Speaker 1: and we had a lot of fun with a friend 5 00:00:11,720 --> 00:00:17,000 Speaker 1: of the show here. There is also some strong language, so. 6 00:00:16,960 --> 00:00:19,919 Speaker 2: Yeah, there's no way to get around at y'all, MEPs 7 00:00:19,960 --> 00:00:23,200 Speaker 2: and Jeffson. This one with our buddy Wayne Fetterman, who 8 00:00:23,280 --> 00:00:26,840 Speaker 2: you may know from Curb Your Enthusiasm from stand up. 9 00:00:26,920 --> 00:00:30,200 Speaker 2: He's just a long time fixture in the LA comedy 10 00:00:30,280 --> 00:00:32,320 Speaker 2: scene and a really cool dude, and I believe he 11 00:00:32,360 --> 00:00:35,360 Speaker 2: also teaches history of stand up comedy at the time 12 00:00:35,560 --> 00:00:41,479 Speaker 2: he did at a university of some stripe there LA. 13 00:00:43,120 --> 00:00:45,760 Speaker 1: He also is, as you were saying, he is a 14 00:00:45,880 --> 00:00:52,680 Speaker 1: legitimate walking encyclopedia of stand up comedy history and one 15 00:00:52,680 --> 00:00:56,920 Speaker 1: of the people that he really connects with, and a 16 00:00:57,000 --> 00:01:00,640 Speaker 1: story that he has examined in thorough depth is the 17 00:01:00,680 --> 00:01:03,959 Speaker 1: story of the legendary stand up Lenny Bruce. 18 00:01:04,000 --> 00:01:12,919 Speaker 2: Lennie Bruce, very famous censorship case, indecency case. Excellent film 19 00:01:13,160 --> 00:01:17,240 Speaker 2: starring what's his name Dustin Hoffman called Lenny by Bob 20 00:01:17,319 --> 00:01:20,200 Speaker 2: Fossey that I highly recommend and we get into all 21 00:01:20,240 --> 00:01:23,480 Speaker 2: of that and the sad and tragic tale of Lenny Bruce, 22 00:01:23,480 --> 00:01:25,959 Speaker 2: who was a really funny guy with some really not 23 00:01:26,160 --> 00:01:27,240 Speaker 2: funny demons. 24 00:01:27,560 --> 00:01:30,520 Speaker 1: And this is part one of a two part series 25 00:01:30,560 --> 00:01:34,160 Speaker 1: with Wayne Fetterman, So tune in for our next classic 26 00:01:34,360 --> 00:01:40,880 Speaker 1: in the same vein about George Carlin. Ridiculous History, is 27 00:01:40,920 --> 00:01:44,840 Speaker 1: a production of iHeartRadio. Before we get started, folks, it's 28 00:01:44,880 --> 00:01:48,520 Speaker 1: important to know that this episode contains some strong and 29 00:01:48,680 --> 00:01:52,840 Speaker 1: explicit language that may not be suitable for all the listeners. 30 00:01:52,880 --> 00:01:55,360 Speaker 1: So if you've got your kiddos in the crowd, this 31 00:01:55,480 --> 00:01:58,400 Speaker 1: might not be the episode for them. We thought about 32 00:01:58,400 --> 00:02:02,080 Speaker 1: censoring it, but we just we couldn't, not in good faith, 33 00:02:02,360 --> 00:02:07,840 Speaker 1: because this episode is fundamentally about free speech and language. 34 00:02:07,920 --> 00:02:10,400 Speaker 1: We hope you enjoy. And one additional note, we had 35 00:02:10,440 --> 00:02:14,000 Speaker 1: a little bit of technical difficulty at the beginning of 36 00:02:14,040 --> 00:02:16,720 Speaker 1: this episode this first part of our two part series. 37 00:02:17,160 --> 00:02:20,800 Speaker 1: Due to this technical difficulty, Noles Mike is actually not 38 00:02:21,280 --> 00:02:25,360 Speaker 1: on for the duration of the first episode or for 39 00:02:25,480 --> 00:02:29,080 Speaker 1: most of it. However, we believe that this interview was 40 00:02:29,400 --> 00:02:33,960 Speaker 1: important enough and enjoyable enough and fantastic enough that we 41 00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:37,519 Speaker 1: wanted to salvage it. And play it out in full. 42 00:02:37,600 --> 00:02:38,960 Speaker 3: And hopefully I didn't say too much. 43 00:03:04,040 --> 00:03:08,520 Speaker 1: Welcome to the show, ridiculous historians, we have something very 44 00:03:08,560 --> 00:03:11,880 Speaker 1: special for you today. Now we get our yucks, and 45 00:03:11,919 --> 00:03:14,520 Speaker 1: we get our goffas and our chuckles. Occasionally, wouldn't you say, 46 00:03:14,560 --> 00:03:17,080 Speaker 1: no yucks and the chucks mm hmm, that's how we 47 00:03:17,200 --> 00:03:22,160 Speaker 1: refer to them. But we have rarely talked about the 48 00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:26,960 Speaker 1: profound depth of story in the evolution of comedy and 49 00:03:27,320 --> 00:03:30,480 Speaker 1: comedy is commentary right, No, Like way way back in 50 00:03:30,520 --> 00:03:34,000 Speaker 1: the day in Western Europe, even the jester was the 51 00:03:34,040 --> 00:03:36,520 Speaker 1: only person sometimes who could speak the truth to the king. 52 00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:39,040 Speaker 4: Well, sure, I mean it's a profession of truth telling, Ben, 53 00:03:39,080 --> 00:03:41,360 Speaker 4: which is your name? Oh, that's right, And it's evolved 54 00:03:41,400 --> 00:03:45,000 Speaker 4: over time and it's become an important source of satire 55 00:03:45,080 --> 00:03:48,400 Speaker 4: and social commentary. And it's these comedians that are able 56 00:03:48,440 --> 00:03:51,800 Speaker 4: to say things that are needed to help society like 57 00:03:51,920 --> 00:03:55,200 Speaker 4: move forward, and to help change laws and change perspectives. 58 00:03:55,280 --> 00:03:58,480 Speaker 4: And that is no exception for the two incredible comments 59 00:03:58,480 --> 00:03:59,240 Speaker 4: we're talking about today. 60 00:03:59,280 --> 00:04:00,640 Speaker 3: But we're not doing it a. 61 00:04:00,720 --> 00:04:02,960 Speaker 1: Right, that's right. No, we are joined of course, as 62 00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:06,880 Speaker 1: always with our super producer. We've got Paul Deccan filling 63 00:04:06,880 --> 00:04:09,560 Speaker 1: in for Casey Pegram today. Make sure you knocked out 64 00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:16,960 Speaker 1: the sound cues, Paul. But we did not come alone 65 00:04:17,200 --> 00:04:22,200 Speaker 1: into this fray of comics versus the law. We came 66 00:04:22,520 --> 00:04:25,919 Speaker 1: with an expert. We would like to introduce you, fellow 67 00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:29,760 Speaker 1: ridiculous historians, to the man, the myth, the legend, Wayne Fetterman. 68 00:04:30,279 --> 00:04:32,200 Speaker 5: Thank you, thank you for calling me a myth? 69 00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:34,600 Speaker 3: What does it mean to be a myth? Does that 70 00:04:34,680 --> 00:04:35,440 Speaker 3: mean exist? 71 00:04:35,520 --> 00:04:36,760 Speaker 5: That means I don't exist? 72 00:04:37,040 --> 00:04:42,880 Speaker 4: We clearly if you've watched television over the last several evers, yeah, 73 00:04:42,920 --> 00:04:45,120 Speaker 4: I mean you have seen this man and everything from 74 00:04:45,160 --> 00:04:47,839 Speaker 4: the X Files. I saw you as an episode of Baywatch, 75 00:04:47,839 --> 00:04:49,080 Speaker 4: which was very impressive to me. 76 00:04:49,520 --> 00:04:50,080 Speaker 1: Enthusiasm. 77 00:04:50,200 --> 00:04:52,320 Speaker 3: You are Dean Weinstock and Kurby Enthusiasm. 78 00:04:52,320 --> 00:04:55,560 Speaker 4: And you basically extorted Larry David for a meeting of 79 00:04:55,680 --> 00:04:58,080 Speaker 4: Julia Louis Dreyfus so that he would have a. 80 00:04:57,960 --> 00:05:00,359 Speaker 3: Wire removed from his backyard, and in the meeting didn't 81 00:05:00,360 --> 00:05:02,680 Speaker 3: go well, and you refuse to have the wire removed. 82 00:05:02,760 --> 00:05:03,480 Speaker 3: What is your deal? 83 00:05:03,960 --> 00:05:06,039 Speaker 1: What was that line? What was that line in that 84 00:05:06,200 --> 00:05:08,640 Speaker 1: in that one? We say you call that a meeting, 85 00:05:08,760 --> 00:05:10,239 Speaker 1: I call that one of the most. 86 00:05:10,080 --> 00:05:11,760 Speaker 5: Fortat just so horrible moment in my life. 87 00:05:11,839 --> 00:05:14,599 Speaker 1: Yes, that was. That was amazing. 88 00:05:14,640 --> 00:05:17,400 Speaker 5: Also, just before we continue with my credits, because that's 89 00:05:17,400 --> 00:05:20,120 Speaker 5: going to be the best part of the show. You know, 90 00:05:20,279 --> 00:05:23,279 Speaker 5: none of those lines are written, so every it's just 91 00:05:23,320 --> 00:05:25,599 Speaker 5: you have the bullet points of what's supposed to happen 92 00:05:25,640 --> 00:05:28,360 Speaker 5: in that scene, and we do it, and we do it, 93 00:05:28,400 --> 00:05:30,120 Speaker 5: and then we'll do it a few times and then 94 00:05:30,240 --> 00:05:32,599 Speaker 5: Larry will go more of that, less of that, more 95 00:05:32,640 --> 00:05:36,400 Speaker 5: of this. That's funny. And so every line you hear 96 00:05:36,480 --> 00:05:38,760 Speaker 5: me say on that show is something I wrote at 97 00:05:38,800 --> 00:05:39,200 Speaker 5: the moment. 98 00:05:39,279 --> 00:05:40,360 Speaker 1: That's even more impressive. 99 00:05:40,440 --> 00:05:42,200 Speaker 4: That's incredible, And I have to ask to be behind 100 00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:45,240 Speaker 4: the curtain. Is it a pedantic number of takes or is. 101 00:05:45,200 --> 00:05:45,920 Speaker 3: It pretty show? 102 00:05:46,040 --> 00:05:47,960 Speaker 4: Is it pretty much like, let's do it a couple 103 00:05:48,000 --> 00:05:49,720 Speaker 4: of months, let's do one more time. It seems like 104 00:05:49,800 --> 00:05:51,680 Speaker 4: Larry would be more laid back, like. 105 00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:55,000 Speaker 1: Be a little more like a brief emotional direction or something. 106 00:05:55,400 --> 00:05:56,000 Speaker 3: What's the scoop? 107 00:05:56,360 --> 00:05:58,760 Speaker 5: Well, it's a good question for that was I mean 108 00:05:58,800 --> 00:06:01,360 Speaker 5: this was early on, that's like the sixth episode of 109 00:06:01,440 --> 00:06:03,640 Speaker 5: the show, so they were still kind of figuring out 110 00:06:03,680 --> 00:06:06,799 Speaker 5: their technique at that point, and a guy named Larry 111 00:06:06,880 --> 00:06:10,400 Speaker 5: Charles was directing it, but just basically Larry David like, yeah, 112 00:06:10,560 --> 00:06:12,520 Speaker 5: that's that's close enough. Let's go on to the next 113 00:06:12,800 --> 00:06:16,360 Speaker 5: Like it wasn't. It wasn't like, oh, this moment has 114 00:06:16,400 --> 00:06:19,680 Speaker 5: to be perfect, and so yeah, so it wasn't a 115 00:06:19,720 --> 00:06:21,680 Speaker 5: lot of takes. Although I will say this, and this 116 00:06:21,760 --> 00:06:24,000 Speaker 5: is going to sound like I'm bragging, but I'm not. 117 00:06:24,360 --> 00:06:27,520 Speaker 5: It's just that Larry sometimes gets like these giggle fits. 118 00:06:28,360 --> 00:06:29,960 Speaker 5: And so the next time I did the show where 119 00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:32,960 Speaker 5: I had to hug him and he breaks my glasses 120 00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:35,039 Speaker 5: and I'm like, no problem, I'll just send you an invoice. 121 00:06:35,120 --> 00:06:35,520 Speaker 6: That's right. 122 00:06:37,120 --> 00:06:40,599 Speaker 5: He kept laughing every time because I'm so sincere in 123 00:06:40,640 --> 00:06:43,560 Speaker 5: my like I'm the nice guy who's a horrible guy. 124 00:06:43,600 --> 00:06:46,359 Speaker 5: Is sort of was the angle of that dude that 125 00:06:46,480 --> 00:06:49,440 Speaker 5: he just kept laughing, laughing, laughing to the point where 126 00:06:49,480 --> 00:06:51,560 Speaker 5: he had to apologize to the crew for pushing in 127 00:06:51,600 --> 00:06:52,160 Speaker 5: the shoot back. 128 00:06:52,240 --> 00:06:54,320 Speaker 1: So that's great. 129 00:06:54,360 --> 00:06:56,240 Speaker 4: I mean, oh my god, I just want to say 130 00:06:56,240 --> 00:06:57,920 Speaker 4: I wish Larry David was my dad. 131 00:06:58,160 --> 00:06:59,400 Speaker 3: I've said that many times. 132 00:06:59,440 --> 00:07:00,800 Speaker 4: I don't know why I didn't have a very good 133 00:07:00,800 --> 00:07:03,599 Speaker 4: relationship with my dad, So maybe that's being informed by that. 134 00:07:03,800 --> 00:07:06,360 Speaker 4: But Larry David just strikes me as like the perfect curmudgeon. 135 00:07:06,520 --> 00:07:08,320 Speaker 4: But he also seems like he'd be pretty cool to 136 00:07:08,360 --> 00:07:09,880 Speaker 4: work with and pretty easy to get along with. 137 00:07:09,960 --> 00:07:10,840 Speaker 3: This by his careacter. 138 00:07:10,840 --> 00:07:13,160 Speaker 5: So you want to dad his multimillionaire. 139 00:07:13,240 --> 00:07:17,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, I guess it just makes great observations. 140 00:07:17,320 --> 00:07:20,560 Speaker 1: You know what, Noel, I agree, I would love it 141 00:07:20,600 --> 00:07:22,320 Speaker 1: if he were your dad, because then I could just 142 00:07:22,360 --> 00:07:24,960 Speaker 1: come over. But I would it wouldn't have to be 143 00:07:25,000 --> 00:07:30,080 Speaker 1: a forever thing I could leave. But let us continue 144 00:07:30,160 --> 00:07:33,120 Speaker 1: just a little bit way with some more of some 145 00:07:33,200 --> 00:07:36,320 Speaker 1: more of these credentials. Some people may not know that 146 00:07:36,400 --> 00:07:40,760 Speaker 1: you are a professor at the University of Southern California. 147 00:07:40,960 --> 00:07:44,320 Speaker 5: Correct, that is correct. I am officially, I mean I'm 148 00:07:44,320 --> 00:07:46,160 Speaker 5: a professor, that's the right word. But I am an 149 00:07:46,280 --> 00:07:48,480 Speaker 5: adjunct professor. Do you know what that means? 150 00:07:49,160 --> 00:07:50,280 Speaker 1: Does that mean not tenured? 151 00:07:50,320 --> 00:07:51,920 Speaker 3: Do I mean you don't have an office. 152 00:07:51,840 --> 00:07:56,320 Speaker 5: All all of those things? Correct? Whatever you think means, 153 00:07:56,360 --> 00:07:59,320 Speaker 5: it basically means not a real professors. What it means 154 00:07:59,440 --> 00:08:01,960 Speaker 5: it means I don't have like a master's or a 155 00:08:01,960 --> 00:08:03,160 Speaker 5: PhD or something like that. 156 00:08:03,200 --> 00:08:05,840 Speaker 3: But just are you teaching the history of stand up. 157 00:08:05,960 --> 00:08:08,600 Speaker 5: Is that your specialty in both the history of stand 158 00:08:08,680 --> 00:08:12,160 Speaker 5: up and a performance class combined? Yes, and it's advanced. 159 00:08:12,160 --> 00:08:14,920 Speaker 5: It's you have to take another stand up class even 160 00:08:14,960 --> 00:08:16,760 Speaker 5: to get to Professor Betterman. 161 00:08:17,680 --> 00:08:20,320 Speaker 1: Well, yeah, so if we were to enroll, we would 162 00:08:20,360 --> 00:08:22,320 Speaker 1: have to start start at level one. 163 00:08:22,400 --> 00:08:24,200 Speaker 3: You got pre RECs. You have pre RECs. 164 00:08:24,600 --> 00:08:28,080 Speaker 4: I have pre And not only do you teach these classes, 165 00:08:28,120 --> 00:08:31,720 Speaker 4: you also have a brand new podcast on the Ponglomerate 166 00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:34,360 Speaker 4: Network that's called The History of stand Up, which is 167 00:08:34,360 --> 00:08:36,480 Speaker 4: a surprise surprise, is about the history of stand up. 168 00:08:37,280 --> 00:08:40,360 Speaker 5: Uh, yeah, it's not. It's not a misdirect. It's not like, 169 00:08:40,440 --> 00:08:43,280 Speaker 5: oh my god, We're just gonna be talking about, you know, 170 00:08:43,480 --> 00:08:48,760 Speaker 5: youth culture and Monrovia. That's how good I am at 171 00:08:48,800 --> 00:08:50,480 Speaker 5: ad libbing. I can't quite get a word at. 172 00:08:50,600 --> 00:08:52,320 Speaker 3: But you never know. We're gonna tap some of your 173 00:08:52,400 --> 00:08:55,199 Speaker 3: your knowledge on the subject today for this episode. 174 00:08:55,200 --> 00:08:56,319 Speaker 5: Of course, that's why I'm here. 175 00:08:56,840 --> 00:09:00,000 Speaker 1: Before we continue, I do want to say a specific 176 00:09:00,720 --> 00:09:04,439 Speaker 1: enjoyed the episode on the rise of stand up or 177 00:09:04,480 --> 00:09:08,280 Speaker 1: what we perceive as modern stand up through the Vaudeville era, 178 00:09:08,840 --> 00:09:11,679 Speaker 1: and thank you? Yeah, I think you I learned a lot. 179 00:09:11,720 --> 00:09:13,760 Speaker 1: I'm going to be insufferable at parties for the next 180 00:09:13,760 --> 00:09:14,160 Speaker 1: few weeks. 181 00:09:14,280 --> 00:09:15,559 Speaker 4: Was you want to set the stage a little bit 182 00:09:15,559 --> 00:09:17,400 Speaker 4: with just like I think that the comics we're talking 183 00:09:17,440 --> 00:09:20,520 Speaker 4: about today obviously benefited from and you mentioned at the 184 00:09:20,520 --> 00:09:22,640 Speaker 4: top of the show, Ben the idea of stand up 185 00:09:22,840 --> 00:09:25,800 Speaker 4: as truth telling and this notion of the what is 186 00:09:25,840 --> 00:09:27,480 Speaker 4: it called the performance. 187 00:09:26,960 --> 00:09:28,800 Speaker 1: Of one performance in one one? 188 00:09:28,800 --> 00:09:30,679 Speaker 3: Will you talk a little bit about that, Wayne, like. 189 00:09:30,679 --> 00:09:33,880 Speaker 5: Just this concept a little absolutely. It's just so you know, 190 00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:37,000 Speaker 5: I know you you hold these comedians up as these 191 00:09:37,080 --> 00:09:41,400 Speaker 5: truth tellers and on the vanguard of social change, and 192 00:09:41,440 --> 00:09:44,760 Speaker 5: there is an element of comedy that is that there's 193 00:09:44,800 --> 00:09:48,200 Speaker 5: also a whole nother see whole ocean of comedy that 194 00:09:48,400 --> 00:09:51,400 Speaker 5: isn't that that's just making people laugh and in a 195 00:09:51,400 --> 00:09:53,960 Speaker 5: way that's a wonderful experience. 196 00:09:54,240 --> 00:09:54,640 Speaker 1: Agreed. 197 00:09:54,760 --> 00:09:57,959 Speaker 5: So yeah, so I just I know you. I feel 198 00:09:57,960 --> 00:10:01,320 Speaker 5: like comedians, some kinds get elevated these truth tellers, like 199 00:10:01,400 --> 00:10:04,559 Speaker 5: they're really just trying to get people to laugh. There 200 00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:07,800 Speaker 5: is their main goal. Is their main goal. So, uh no, 201 00:10:07,960 --> 00:10:09,960 Speaker 5: if we go back to VA, it's interesting you should 202 00:10:09,960 --> 00:10:12,240 Speaker 5: you picked up on that episode because we talk about 203 00:10:12,240 --> 00:10:15,000 Speaker 5: this guy Frank Fay that a lot of people look 204 00:10:15,080 --> 00:10:18,600 Speaker 5: to is the architect of the modern what we consider 205 00:10:18,679 --> 00:10:20,960 Speaker 5: the modern stand up. It's kind of like a wise guy, 206 00:10:21,120 --> 00:10:23,960 Speaker 5: smart guy in a suit, who does you know, no 207 00:10:24,120 --> 00:10:28,360 Speaker 5: baggy pants, no weird hat, doesn't you know, crazy big 208 00:10:28,400 --> 00:10:31,840 Speaker 5: tie or anything like that that screams, hey, I'm a comedian, 209 00:10:31,920 --> 00:10:34,480 Speaker 5: you know, just a guy, a sharp talking guy. And 210 00:10:34,559 --> 00:10:36,760 Speaker 5: from that with this guy's name is Frank Fay, and 211 00:10:37,400 --> 00:10:39,800 Speaker 5: another time he should do an episode. You guys should 212 00:10:39,840 --> 00:10:43,040 Speaker 5: do one Frank Fay because he's a really interesting guy, 213 00:10:43,040 --> 00:10:46,200 Speaker 5: because he not only creates this, but is this sort 214 00:10:46,240 --> 00:10:49,679 Speaker 5: of anti Semitic and he's he supports the Nazis, and 215 00:10:49,679 --> 00:10:53,040 Speaker 5: it's he's just a crazy dude. He's a very insufferable man. 216 00:10:53,679 --> 00:10:57,440 Speaker 5: And uh, it's just like that, this guy. I love that. 217 00:10:57,600 --> 00:10:59,600 Speaker 5: In fact, this is the guy that sort of started 218 00:10:59,640 --> 00:11:02,800 Speaker 5: the whole thing. It's perfect. It's perfect. So anyway, vaudeville 219 00:11:02,880 --> 00:11:06,719 Speaker 5: was family entertainment, and the height of vaudeville, like what 220 00:11:06,800 --> 00:11:10,000 Speaker 5: today would be getting a Netflix special, was to perform 221 00:11:10,120 --> 00:11:13,160 Speaker 5: at a theater in New York or the Palace, which 222 00:11:13,240 --> 00:11:16,520 Speaker 5: was right off Broadway in forty four or no, no, no, 223 00:11:16,320 --> 00:11:18,959 Speaker 5: it's a little higher than that. Forty eighth and so 224 00:11:19,040 --> 00:11:21,840 Speaker 5: that was like the goal of every comedian, and Frank 225 00:11:21,880 --> 00:11:24,160 Speaker 5: Faye was the MC at the Palace. They used to 226 00:11:24,240 --> 00:11:26,160 Speaker 5: not even have MC's. They used to just put up 227 00:11:26,200 --> 00:11:29,000 Speaker 5: a placard or like a big card and say this 228 00:11:29,120 --> 00:11:31,960 Speaker 5: is you know, Fink's mules, and then this act would 229 00:11:32,000 --> 00:11:34,160 Speaker 5: come out and they do it. So he would like 230 00:11:34,240 --> 00:11:36,439 Speaker 5: in between the acts, he'd like kibbets with the crowd, 231 00:11:36,480 --> 00:11:40,560 Speaker 5: and eventually that became his act. And by performing in one, 232 00:11:40,960 --> 00:11:43,840 Speaker 5: usually there was a curtain and so in one was 233 00:11:43,880 --> 00:11:46,960 Speaker 5: the very front of the stage. That meant you didn't 234 00:11:46,960 --> 00:11:49,319 Speaker 5: need anything behind you. So a lot of times comedians 235 00:11:49,320 --> 00:11:52,360 Speaker 5: were needed because they would be setting up an acroback 236 00:11:52,720 --> 00:11:56,200 Speaker 5: act or a contortionist act behind the curtain while the 237 00:11:56,240 --> 00:11:59,040 Speaker 5: stand up was just doing his stick. So that was 238 00:11:59,080 --> 00:12:01,520 Speaker 5: called being in one. And now it means sort of 239 00:12:01,600 --> 00:12:05,320 Speaker 5: like you are alone out there. It's a literal and 240 00:12:05,400 --> 00:12:07,880 Speaker 5: figurative statement, if I'm not mistaken. 241 00:12:08,760 --> 00:12:12,679 Speaker 1: So that's that makes sense though from from the behind 242 00:12:12,720 --> 00:12:16,480 Speaker 1: the scenes perspective that you wouldn't want that dead air, right, 243 00:12:16,559 --> 00:12:20,160 Speaker 1: you would want the audience to have something to look at, yep. 244 00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:22,559 Speaker 5: Yep, exactly. You don't want a big, deep stage behind 245 00:12:22,559 --> 00:12:25,080 Speaker 5: you when all you really need is it just your voice. 246 00:12:25,120 --> 00:12:28,400 Speaker 5: And then microphone sort of changed that a little bit, 247 00:12:28,679 --> 00:12:30,600 Speaker 5: you know, and that was more of the nightclub era. 248 00:12:30,920 --> 00:12:34,960 Speaker 5: And that's when they added something called alcohol to the equation. 249 00:12:35,360 --> 00:12:37,280 Speaker 4: And is that is that we kind of move more 250 00:12:37,320 --> 00:12:39,959 Speaker 4: from vaudeville into like burlesque, where it becomes less of 251 00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:40,840 Speaker 4: a family affair. 252 00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:44,960 Speaker 5: Is that when the now ran ran concurrent to vaudeville, 253 00:12:44,960 --> 00:12:47,719 Speaker 5: which was like a lower class entertainment that was kind 254 00:12:47,760 --> 00:12:50,840 Speaker 5: of looked down upon. And mainly men went to burlesque shows, 255 00:12:50,920 --> 00:12:52,880 Speaker 5: not a lot of women, and it was sort of 256 00:12:52,920 --> 00:12:55,280 Speaker 5: like there might be a stripper or a you know, 257 00:12:55,360 --> 00:12:59,040 Speaker 5: a very a fan dancer or something you know like that. 258 00:12:59,120 --> 00:13:02,319 Speaker 5: And and the cam in Burlesk were way more broad 259 00:13:02,760 --> 00:13:05,520 Speaker 5: and because you had you know, there were just guys 260 00:13:05,559 --> 00:13:07,480 Speaker 5: there in them, you know, degenerates in the middle of 261 00:13:07,559 --> 00:13:11,079 Speaker 5: the afternoon watching women. And then it was very hard 262 00:13:11,080 --> 00:13:14,400 Speaker 5: to do very subtle kind of you know Jack Benny 263 00:13:14,440 --> 00:13:17,920 Speaker 5: to kuype of humor to these guys. Yeah, so Burlesk 264 00:13:17,960 --> 00:13:21,160 Speaker 5: grant concurrent to Vaudeville, but was like considered a low 265 00:13:21,280 --> 00:13:22,600 Speaker 5: form of entertainment. 266 00:13:27,840 --> 00:13:32,920 Speaker 1: And when we were originally talking before doing this episode, 267 00:13:33,960 --> 00:13:38,680 Speaker 1: we had asked you to share with our listeners some 268 00:13:38,920 --> 00:13:43,800 Speaker 1: stories about what we would what we would call notorious 269 00:13:43,880 --> 00:13:48,360 Speaker 1: cases of comedians versus the law. And I'm setting this 270 00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:52,200 Speaker 1: up now because when we I believe you had said 271 00:13:52,280 --> 00:13:55,440 Speaker 1: earlier in the history of stand up that the term 272 00:13:55,600 --> 00:13:59,080 Speaker 1: stand up comic didn't really come about until the late forties, 273 00:13:59,120 --> 00:14:00,640 Speaker 1: maybe nineteen forties or so. 274 00:14:01,120 --> 00:14:03,960 Speaker 5: One hundred percent correct. Somebody is listening to my podcast. 275 00:14:03,960 --> 00:14:06,920 Speaker 5: This is a miracle. I love it. I literally thought 276 00:14:06,920 --> 00:14:09,280 Speaker 5: my podcast would be for like, I don't know one 277 00:14:09,360 --> 00:14:11,880 Speaker 5: hundred and eighty people who are ridged in the history 278 00:14:11,960 --> 00:14:14,920 Speaker 5: of this. So yeah, they didn't have a term for 279 00:14:15,040 --> 00:14:17,320 Speaker 5: like when Milton Burrell was doing stand up and we 280 00:14:17,400 --> 00:14:19,800 Speaker 5: have a clip of Burrell at the Winter Garden Theater 281 00:14:19,960 --> 00:14:22,480 Speaker 5: doing basically stand up jokes. You know, he does a 282 00:14:22,520 --> 00:14:25,240 Speaker 5: joke about a restaurant that's so expensive they have three 283 00:14:25,280 --> 00:14:27,480 Speaker 5: waiters for each table, one to give you the check 284 00:14:27,720 --> 00:14:30,760 Speaker 5: and two to revive you, so, you know, just to 285 00:14:30,840 --> 00:14:33,600 Speaker 5: like a joke, just to you know, jokes. And he 286 00:14:33,680 --> 00:14:36,200 Speaker 5: was doing that stuff before there was even the term standards. 287 00:14:36,200 --> 00:14:39,760 Speaker 5: So they called him either monologists or comics or something. 288 00:14:39,880 --> 00:14:44,160 Speaker 5: Like that. But then eventually, like bookers wanted to know 289 00:14:44,280 --> 00:14:46,800 Speaker 5: what you were getting, Like they would book a variety 290 00:14:46,840 --> 00:14:49,480 Speaker 5: show and they would need a singer and you know, 291 00:14:49,640 --> 00:14:53,400 Speaker 5: maybe a juggler, and then a comic, and they go, 292 00:14:53,440 --> 00:14:55,000 Speaker 5: what kind of comedy does he stand up? Does he 293 00:14:55,040 --> 00:14:57,160 Speaker 5: need music? Does he you know? And so it was 294 00:14:57,200 --> 00:15:01,080 Speaker 5: a specific kind of comic who just used their voice. 295 00:15:01,400 --> 00:15:03,120 Speaker 1: I guess one of the big questions we have, like 296 00:15:03,240 --> 00:15:07,600 Speaker 1: the to Knowle's exploration there of burlesque running concurrently with 297 00:15:07,720 --> 00:15:12,400 Speaker 1: vaudeville but being considered a lower form of entertainment. Where 298 00:15:12,480 --> 00:15:17,640 Speaker 1: did these stand up comics fit in? Were they controversial? 299 00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:21,680 Speaker 1: Were they just something new and strange? Was it a 300 00:15:21,720 --> 00:15:23,560 Speaker 1: slow evolution or a sudden one. 301 00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:27,640 Speaker 5: That's a good question. I you know, I think people 302 00:15:27,920 --> 00:15:30,840 Speaker 5: always you know, I just think it's a human need 303 00:15:31,440 --> 00:15:34,840 Speaker 5: to want to laugh. Like, especially in a group of people. 304 00:15:34,920 --> 00:15:39,960 Speaker 5: It's a very exciting, cathartic, you know, elevated moment is 305 00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:42,160 Speaker 5: when you're all laughing at the same time. I don't 306 00:15:42,200 --> 00:15:46,240 Speaker 5: know if you've ever seen a movie called Sullivan's Travels, 307 00:15:46,760 --> 00:15:50,000 Speaker 5: but it's just a great movie about this Broadway producer 308 00:15:50,560 --> 00:15:53,840 Speaker 5: who like gets burnt out on Hollywood and goes to 309 00:15:53,920 --> 00:15:57,280 Speaker 5: see what, you know, what is, pretends he's like a bum. 310 00:15:57,440 --> 00:16:00,920 Speaker 5: And one of the great moments is just watching these 311 00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:04,840 Speaker 5: these cartoons with a bunch of itinerant workers and they're 312 00:16:04,840 --> 00:16:07,720 Speaker 5: all laughing together and it's like, oh, there's value in this. 313 00:16:08,360 --> 00:16:12,160 Speaker 5: There's a value. It's a beautiful movie. And I know 314 00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:13,440 Speaker 5: that's a little sidetracked, but. 315 00:16:13,600 --> 00:16:15,600 Speaker 3: My point is it sounds fantastic. 316 00:16:15,760 --> 00:16:18,520 Speaker 5: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, it's it's like, well, I don't 317 00:16:18,560 --> 00:16:22,880 Speaker 5: know anyway, Joel McRae, Veronica Lake, I'm gonna name the 318 00:16:22,880 --> 00:16:25,600 Speaker 5: whole cast people no one's ever heard of. I'm gonna 319 00:16:25,640 --> 00:16:29,680 Speaker 5: keep going. So it's I don't know, I I guess. 320 00:16:30,040 --> 00:16:32,040 Speaker 5: You know, there's always been funny, but like you said earlier, 321 00:16:32,040 --> 00:16:35,760 Speaker 5: there's court gestures and you know even uh, you know, 322 00:16:35,880 --> 00:16:39,760 Speaker 5: early on in vaudeville there was like funny comedian singer types, 323 00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:42,480 Speaker 5: which is like an Eddie Canter or something like that, 324 00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:45,080 Speaker 5: and then they were just like, oh, people just like 325 00:16:45,560 --> 00:16:49,640 Speaker 5: the comedy part, and so people specialized in that, and 326 00:16:49,680 --> 00:16:52,920 Speaker 5: then that became very much more kind of like an 327 00:16:52,920 --> 00:16:55,280 Speaker 5: opening act for like a singer like I was just 328 00:16:55,400 --> 00:16:59,160 Speaker 5: listening to like George Carlin would open for this singer 329 00:16:59,240 --> 00:17:02,440 Speaker 5: named Oliver in the sixties, and Woody Allen opened for 330 00:17:02,520 --> 00:17:05,879 Speaker 5: Barbara streisand and then later for Jim Crochey. So it 331 00:17:05,960 --> 00:17:08,440 Speaker 5: was like a great way to sort of settle the crowd, 332 00:17:09,080 --> 00:17:11,280 Speaker 5: get some laughs, and then you know, get the headliner 333 00:17:11,320 --> 00:17:14,439 Speaker 5: up there. Unless it was and eventually the comics became 334 00:17:14,480 --> 00:17:15,000 Speaker 5: the headline. 335 00:17:15,040 --> 00:17:15,159 Speaker 7: Well. 336 00:17:15,160 --> 00:17:18,040 Speaker 4: And it's also like kind of a self sufficient act, right, 337 00:17:18,200 --> 00:17:19,960 Speaker 4: Like you don't really need a whole lot of props 338 00:17:20,040 --> 00:17:22,439 Speaker 4: or you know, back line or like equipment or anything. 339 00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:24,520 Speaker 3: It's just a person and their brain. 340 00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:27,000 Speaker 1: And their mouth and maybe a microphone a microphone. 341 00:17:27,040 --> 00:17:30,480 Speaker 5: So that's yeah, one hundred percent. That's why musicians like 342 00:17:30,560 --> 00:17:32,560 Speaker 5: want to be comics. They're like, oh, I don't have 343 00:17:32,600 --> 00:17:35,080 Speaker 5: to deal with this road crew guy and this dude 344 00:17:35,160 --> 00:17:37,239 Speaker 5: setting up my guitar and not tuning it right. And 345 00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:39,320 Speaker 5: like even to be in a band is a lot 346 00:17:39,320 --> 00:17:42,359 Speaker 5: of stuff, like we just get on an airplane or 347 00:17:42,440 --> 00:17:44,520 Speaker 5: get in a car and go to the gig and 348 00:17:44,560 --> 00:17:48,160 Speaker 5: then go back. It's it is. I think it's the simplest, right, 349 00:17:48,200 --> 00:17:50,840 Speaker 5: there's really I mean, I'm gonna throw that out to 350 00:17:50,880 --> 00:17:53,960 Speaker 5: you guys. Can you think of anything where you need 351 00:17:53,960 --> 00:17:57,640 Speaker 5: to bring less physical attributes to the to the act. 352 00:17:57,800 --> 00:18:01,679 Speaker 3: No, not really, maybe podcasting. I mean they usually provide 353 00:18:01,680 --> 00:18:02,560 Speaker 3: the mikes for us too. 354 00:18:02,760 --> 00:18:05,560 Speaker 4: We're actually doing our first tour next week, so we'll 355 00:18:05,640 --> 00:18:07,080 Speaker 4: report back and let's go how that goes. 356 00:18:07,200 --> 00:18:09,480 Speaker 5: But we do have Oh you're going out on the road. 357 00:18:09,920 --> 00:18:10,479 Speaker 5: I love it. 358 00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:12,440 Speaker 1: We're hitting the road way and wish this luck. 359 00:18:12,600 --> 00:18:14,359 Speaker 4: But listen, let's get let's get to let's get to 360 00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:16,560 Speaker 4: the let let's get to the headlines. 361 00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:20,679 Speaker 5: So the headliner. All right, sorry, knowledge, I'm sorry, hey. 362 00:18:20,440 --> 00:18:22,960 Speaker 3: Professor Fetterman, come on, let's take it easier. 363 00:18:24,359 --> 00:18:26,520 Speaker 4: So we're talking about the term stand up not really 364 00:18:26,520 --> 00:18:29,320 Speaker 4: coming around until the forties. But around the fifties, you 365 00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:31,520 Speaker 4: got a guy named Lenny Bruce who comes onto the 366 00:18:31,560 --> 00:18:35,199 Speaker 4: scene and he gets his start, you know, doing the 367 00:18:35,240 --> 00:18:37,040 Speaker 4: same thing that a lot of comedians would do, where 368 00:18:37,040 --> 00:18:40,160 Speaker 4: he would be on what was it the Steve Allen Show? 369 00:18:40,200 --> 00:18:42,159 Speaker 3: I believe he was on pretty early in his career. 370 00:18:42,640 --> 00:18:46,600 Speaker 5: Lenny Bruce is a fascinating story because he's he's like 371 00:18:46,680 --> 00:18:49,560 Speaker 5: this legend in a way because of what he did 372 00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:52,359 Speaker 5: basically in a like a four or five year period. 373 00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:54,919 Speaker 5: And I'll explain it to you he really he was 374 00:18:54,960 --> 00:18:57,560 Speaker 5: in the war in the forties, his mom was in 375 00:18:57,640 --> 00:19:00,159 Speaker 5: show Becausiness. She was kind of a comic. He was 376 00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:02,240 Speaker 5: a talent show and he gets, you know, does a 377 00:19:02,240 --> 00:19:05,480 Speaker 5: bunch of impressions, and then he's on Broadway Open House 378 00:19:05,520 --> 00:19:07,720 Speaker 5: in I f and then he's not really on television 379 00:19:07,760 --> 00:19:11,080 Speaker 5: at all. In for most of the fifties, he's basically, 380 00:19:11,080 --> 00:19:13,600 Speaker 5: remember we were talking about burlesque and strip clubs. He 381 00:19:13,640 --> 00:19:16,639 Speaker 5: was basically a comedian that worked in strip clubs was 382 00:19:16,680 --> 00:19:19,399 Speaker 5: his thing, and which was this brutal existence. But he 383 00:19:19,440 --> 00:19:21,480 Speaker 5: was you know, he fell in love with this stripper 384 00:19:21,920 --> 00:19:26,320 Speaker 5: named Honey, and he you know, he just could kind 385 00:19:26,320 --> 00:19:29,600 Speaker 5: of develop this act trying to entertain these guys and 386 00:19:29,800 --> 00:19:32,360 Speaker 5: was just kicking around. Couldn't get anything go and tried 387 00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:35,760 Speaker 5: to make these short films and wrote scripts in Hollywood 388 00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:39,480 Speaker 5: and nothing, couldn't get any traction, really, and then finally 389 00:19:40,119 --> 00:19:45,600 Speaker 5: when mort Saul came along and opened up stand up 390 00:19:45,600 --> 00:19:48,800 Speaker 5: to being a little more about commentary, which you guys 391 00:19:48,840 --> 00:19:52,800 Speaker 5: mentioned earlier. This inspired Lenny Bruce. And also there was 392 00:19:52,840 --> 00:19:55,240 Speaker 5: a he had sort of a I don't know what's 393 00:19:55,280 --> 00:19:57,560 Speaker 5: a muse is the word I would use, named Joe 394 00:19:57,640 --> 00:20:02,320 Speaker 5: ansis this is famous comedy history who kind of developed 395 00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:07,480 Speaker 5: Lenny Bruce's jazz talking jive style. I don't know if 396 00:20:07,520 --> 00:20:09,680 Speaker 5: you've heard his records, but it's sometimes it's hard to 397 00:20:09,760 --> 00:20:12,760 Speaker 5: even to connect with them because the language is like, 398 00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:15,359 Speaker 5: you know, so up too, said times. 399 00:20:15,480 --> 00:20:17,480 Speaker 7: Ladies and gentlemen, the Palladium Theater. 400 00:20:17,600 --> 00:20:21,760 Speaker 6: Body was in Semitica's fastest rise young comedian and dean of. 401 00:20:21,760 --> 00:20:23,840 Speaker 7: Satire, mister Frank Dell. 402 00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:27,800 Speaker 6: Good evening, ladies and gentlemen, and certainly nice to be 403 00:20:27,920 --> 00:20:30,920 Speaker 6: here at the most famous theater in the world, the 404 00:20:30,920 --> 00:20:38,399 Speaker 6: wonderful Palladium Theater. Well, folks, I just got back from 405 00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:44,520 Speaker 6: lost wages. Never funny thing about working lost wages, folks. 406 00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:47,120 Speaker 6: The way to make a lot of money there when 407 00:20:47,160 --> 00:20:49,480 Speaker 6: you get off the plane, walk right into the propel 408 00:20:50,119 --> 00:20:55,720 Speaker 6: and then into the motel jokes, the army jokes, the impressions, ten, twelve, 409 00:20:55,920 --> 00:21:02,520 Speaker 6: fifteen minutes, and he's bombing nothing but not left one. 410 00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:04,800 Speaker 7: Now he goes into the dying jokes. 411 00:21:06,320 --> 00:21:10,000 Speaker 8: Oh, well, folks, I wasn't born having him short dying 412 00:21:10,119 --> 00:21:14,080 Speaker 8: here hah, A lot of different ways to die and 413 00:21:14,119 --> 00:21:18,320 Speaker 8: blah blah blah. Nice starts with putting the audience down well, 414 00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:21,520 Speaker 8: Freddy Freddie boye. I see it's little Squaresville, the little 415 00:21:21,560 --> 00:21:23,040 Speaker 8: Squaresville for the first. 416 00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:28,000 Speaker 7: Show, the greatest in them all. Oh my baby, Billman cracks. 417 00:21:29,520 --> 00:21:33,320 Speaker 7: Let's go to show business Heaven. How about him? I 418 00:21:33,480 --> 00:21:36,720 Speaker 7: show eh walks off. I guess the little courtesy was 419 00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:40,159 Speaker 7: two people. Sounds like Citizen King Harold. 420 00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:43,520 Speaker 5: And again this is this is later in his career. 421 00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:45,320 Speaker 5: This is not in the fifty one to fifty. He 422 00:21:45,359 --> 00:21:48,040 Speaker 5: only started recording later, and that recording is a perfect 423 00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:50,200 Speaker 5: example of it. I just this. You know, he would 424 00:21:50,200 --> 00:21:52,959 Speaker 5: do bits, but he had kind of a hey Man style, 425 00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:55,960 Speaker 5: and he was very much, you know, into amphetamines and 426 00:21:56,600 --> 00:22:00,119 Speaker 5: pot and you know, he was he had a relationship 427 00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:03,119 Speaker 5: with with drugs, let's let's put it that way, ultimately 428 00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:07,000 Speaker 5: killed him. And then then he puts you know, he 429 00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:10,800 Speaker 5: puts out this album and that came out in nineteen 430 00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:14,760 Speaker 5: fifty nine, and he was known for using dirty words 431 00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:17,639 Speaker 5: and became what known as a sick comedian. There was 432 00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:20,360 Speaker 5: a great article on Time magazine about these sick comedians 433 00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:22,960 Speaker 5: who would do just like like one of his jokes 434 00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:27,199 Speaker 5: would be like, uh, the problem with my marriage was 435 00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:29,800 Speaker 5: my mother in law because I slept with her too 436 00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:31,840 Speaker 5: many times or something like, you know, just like weird, 437 00:22:31,880 --> 00:22:33,840 Speaker 5: like people would be like, what is God? What is he? 438 00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:35,680 Speaker 5: What did I hear? You know, that kind of thing, 439 00:22:36,280 --> 00:22:39,639 Speaker 5: And so, guess what, he starts making fun. One of 440 00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:42,800 Speaker 5: his big bits is called religion Incorporated. And he starts 441 00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:46,320 Speaker 5: doing this bit, and you know a lot of cops 442 00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:51,280 Speaker 5: are irish, you know at that time, and so and 443 00:22:51,359 --> 00:22:53,120 Speaker 5: just you know, the DA's and stuff. So he gets 444 00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:56,520 Speaker 5: arrested in San Francisco and then he becomes known as 445 00:22:56,560 --> 00:23:00,080 Speaker 5: this comedian who's being censored, and sort of that elevated 446 00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:04,000 Speaker 5: him a little bit. And then he gets arrested in 447 00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:06,840 Speaker 5: Chicago at the Gate of Horn and you know, believe 448 00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:09,639 Speaker 5: it or not, George Carlin is at that show also 449 00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:12,960 Speaker 5: gets arrested just because you won't show the cops his ID. 450 00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:17,359 Speaker 5: And Lenny Bridge is like, why do they arrest you 451 00:23:17,359 --> 00:23:19,440 Speaker 5: because I wouldn't show my idea because you're a schmuck, 452 00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:27,720 Speaker 5: you know that kind of thing. But the big case 453 00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:31,840 Speaker 5: happened in New York at the Cafe Wah Wah. I 454 00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:32,640 Speaker 5: think it's called. 455 00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:36,359 Speaker 4: Yeah, he's like fed up with these puritanical l A 456 00:23:36,520 --> 00:23:38,800 Speaker 4: cops or Southern California. 457 00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:39,120 Speaker 3: Cops, which is right. 458 00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:40,760 Speaker 5: So he thinks New York is going to be way 459 00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:41,440 Speaker 5: more progressive. 460 00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:43,919 Speaker 1: And that's in Greenwich Village, right, yes. 461 00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:47,359 Speaker 5: Yes, this is the scene. You know, Ginsburg's there and 462 00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:50,159 Speaker 5: Dylan is there, and it's like it's, uh, you know, 463 00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:53,240 Speaker 5: it's very couldn't be more progressive. I mean outside of 464 00:23:53,280 --> 00:23:56,960 Speaker 5: maybe Madison, Wisconsin or something. I mean, it is the 465 00:23:57,000 --> 00:24:00,479 Speaker 5: centerpiece of progressive and so he's like, Okay, I'm this 466 00:24:00,520 --> 00:24:02,159 Speaker 5: is where I'm going to do it. And of course, 467 00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:05,680 Speaker 5: you know, the Irish New York cops they arrest them, 468 00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:11,320 Speaker 5: and that arrest and conviction stayed on his record for 469 00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:13,960 Speaker 5: his entire life. And it wasn't until I believe two 470 00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:18,320 Speaker 5: thousand and three when Governor Pataki of New York overturned 471 00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:21,560 Speaker 5: or gave him clemency or whatever. He pardoned him and 472 00:24:22,119 --> 00:24:24,720 Speaker 5: struck that from the thing. So it was like he was, 473 00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:28,840 Speaker 5: I know, it sounds impossible to believe that adult. No 474 00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:32,960 Speaker 5: adult complained. There wasn't one patron. I love using that 475 00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:37,000 Speaker 5: word patron at these clubs. It was like, I can't 476 00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:39,480 Speaker 5: like they knew the sick humor in Lady Bridge. This 477 00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:41,320 Speaker 5: is what we want to see this is what we 478 00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:44,679 Speaker 5: want to hear and expand our minds a little bit. 479 00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:47,120 Speaker 5: We may be a fact we can handle it. So 480 00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:49,800 Speaker 5: it was just just try to think of that, you 481 00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:53,080 Speaker 5: guys of a time not that long ago. I mean, 482 00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:55,520 Speaker 5: you know, I was born in fifty nine, so it's 483 00:24:55,520 --> 00:24:59,439 Speaker 5: not it's in my lifetime. When police would come into 484 00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:05,480 Speaker 5: an an establishment and arrest somebody for using language that's insane. 485 00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:08,520 Speaker 1: They were also undercover police, is that correct, Like they 486 00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:10,159 Speaker 1: were there in playing clothes or something. 487 00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:13,520 Speaker 5: Yeah. Sometimes, I mean the one in Chicago is hilarious, 488 00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:17,240 Speaker 5: and because there's a recording of it and he's talking 489 00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:19,520 Speaker 5: about the cop he sees them over there, and then 490 00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:22,480 Speaker 5: he says something and then the cop literally says okay, 491 00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:26,879 Speaker 5: folks shows over, you know, like the cliche, and he 492 00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:29,040 Speaker 5: gets arrested. Then they just shut it down. 493 00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:31,159 Speaker 3: Well, and here's the thing too, they actually this was 494 00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:31,800 Speaker 3: on the book. 495 00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:34,240 Speaker 4: So in New York when he got arrested, it was 496 00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:38,080 Speaker 4: because of something called Penal Code eleven forty dash A 497 00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:40,840 Speaker 4: and this is this is the language of this. It 498 00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:45,240 Speaker 4: prohibited something they referred to as quote obscene, indecent, immoral, 499 00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:49,800 Speaker 4: and impure drama. I assume that means drama, play, exhibition, 500 00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:53,840 Speaker 4: and entertainment, which would tend to the corruption of the 501 00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:57,399 Speaker 4: morals of youth and others for you, and then you know, 502 00:25:57,480 --> 00:26:00,639 Speaker 4: this is so broad, This is such incredibly broad language, 503 00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:03,000 Speaker 4: the corruption of youth and others. 504 00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:04,679 Speaker 3: And it's like, who's asking for this? 505 00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:08,480 Speaker 1: But it's also it's it's also part of the hypocrisy 506 00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:11,879 Speaker 1: of the American legal system. That's an historic thing. It 507 00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:17,600 Speaker 1: goes to any form of language or communication, like the photographs, yeah, 508 00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:20,920 Speaker 1: or like the James Joyce ulysses, which all right went 509 00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:24,000 Speaker 1: to the courts on the basis of being what pornography 510 00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:27,200 Speaker 1: and the ultimate ruling was I know it when I see. 511 00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:30,359 Speaker 5: It, right, right, So this is a very slipper. Now again, 512 00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:33,639 Speaker 5: I want to talk about all of these issues, including 513 00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:37,040 Speaker 5: motion pictures what's going on with them as well. But 514 00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:41,239 Speaker 5: the point you're making is youth and others. Was that 515 00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:43,200 Speaker 5: the language was it? The youth and others? 516 00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:47,879 Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly, the corruption of the morals of youth and others. 517 00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:50,399 Speaker 4: So what does this even mean? Who's asking for this? 518 00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:52,320 Speaker 4: Where is this coming from? What are your what are 519 00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:52,879 Speaker 4: your thoughts? 520 00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:55,040 Speaker 5: I will tell you where it's coming from. There used 521 00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:59,960 Speaker 5: to be something called community standards, and that was basically saying, 522 00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:03,679 Speaker 5: in this community, we don't want a certain kind of 523 00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:05,840 Speaker 5: film here, and we don't want a certain kind of 524 00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:09,239 Speaker 5: entertainment here. And there was it was a lot of 525 00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:13,280 Speaker 5: it was, believe it or not, the Catholic League would 526 00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:17,080 Speaker 5: have their own board which would decide would rate movies 527 00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:21,359 Speaker 5: and get the Catholic Board didn't this let your movie 528 00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:23,320 Speaker 5: come into your town. It didn't come into your town. 529 00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:26,639 Speaker 5: And you know, and that's how the politicians stayed in power. 530 00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:29,399 Speaker 5: And that's how these penal codes, including the one you 531 00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:31,280 Speaker 5: just read eleven what was the number. 532 00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:32,439 Speaker 3: Eleven forty dash A. 533 00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:35,199 Speaker 5: Yeah, I always think of eleven forty dash B. But 534 00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:37,120 Speaker 5: I always get that wrong. I always get that wrong. 535 00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:39,800 Speaker 5: Now that's fair enough. Fair why I'm not teaching at Yale. 536 00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:42,200 Speaker 5: That's why I'm not at an Ivy League school right there. 537 00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:47,880 Speaker 5: So that's that was going on in the United States. 538 00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:49,960 Speaker 5: Even when I was a kid. There was something called 539 00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:52,960 Speaker 5: the Catholic League that would like, no, you can't have 540 00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:55,879 Speaker 5: this coming, this movie come in here. So that only 541 00:27:56,000 --> 00:27:59,320 Speaker 5: changed really in nineteen sixty eight when they started the 542 00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:03,199 Speaker 5: movie rating system. So before then, I don't know, this 543 00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:06,760 Speaker 5: is incredible. Just it's a sidebar, but I think it's interesting. 544 00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:09,280 Speaker 5: It's a few years, maybe eight years after Lenny Bruce 545 00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:11,760 Speaker 5: gets arrested. A lot is uh. You know, they put 546 00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:15,399 Speaker 5: in these rating systems. So now the first movie to 547 00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:17,960 Speaker 5: ever be raped to win Best Picture is a G 548 00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:20,760 Speaker 5: rated movie. The only one a g rated movie called Oliver. 549 00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:25,080 Speaker 5: The next year, sixty nine, an X rated movie wins 550 00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:25,800 Speaker 5: Best Picture. 551 00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:26,840 Speaker 1: What was it? 552 00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:33,199 Speaker 5: That's you know, John Lloyd, Everybody's talking, which is funny. 553 00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:35,720 Speaker 5: It's now been re rated. It's now been rerated. 554 00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:37,560 Speaker 3: Dustin Hoffman is in that. 555 00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:40,120 Speaker 4: And Dustin Hoffman plays Lenny Bruce in the movie Lenny's 556 00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:41,000 Speaker 4: so full circle. 557 00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:43,000 Speaker 5: It's all one big thing. It's all. But I'm just 558 00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:46,440 Speaker 5: saying that sort of opened up the world for a 559 00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:49,680 Speaker 5: lot of moviegoers, especially in small towns in America, because 560 00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:52,440 Speaker 5: now they could see a movie that the Catholic League 561 00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:58,160 Speaker 5: didn't deem, you know, immoral for this community, these community standards. 562 00:28:58,320 --> 00:29:00,640 Speaker 5: So anyway, I just want to give an overview of 563 00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:04,040 Speaker 5: like why these penal codes were on the books. It 564 00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:06,720 Speaker 5: just it just gave them a legal reason to shut 565 00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:08,080 Speaker 5: down a movie or something like that. 566 00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:10,040 Speaker 4: Oh and it's crazy and we take all that for granted. 567 00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:13,560 Speaker 4: These days, I mean, it's so easy to not appreciate 568 00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:15,280 Speaker 4: the fact that I can go watch anything I want 569 00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:18,200 Speaker 4: on Netflix or you know, in the in the theater, 570 00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:19,760 Speaker 4: that I can see dirty stuff. 571 00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:23,400 Speaker 1: Well, people still do slide back into moral panics on 572 00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:24,640 Speaker 1: a cyclical basis. 573 00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:25,640 Speaker 4: Oh absolutely sure. 574 00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:27,920 Speaker 5: Here well, oh. 575 00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:31,560 Speaker 1: So, for example, we will see the same kind of 576 00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:36,600 Speaker 1: moral panic of rock music polluting the hearts and minds 577 00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:39,920 Speaker 1: of young children because the beat is a little too bouncy, 578 00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:40,360 Speaker 1: that's right. 579 00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:41,640 Speaker 4: I mean there was even all that tip or Gore 580 00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:44,480 Speaker 4: stuff with the parental advisory stickers and like rap music 581 00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:46,960 Speaker 4: and Marilyn Manson and all that stuff. So absolutely it 582 00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:50,400 Speaker 4: seems like that stuff goes in cycles. But ultimately I 583 00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:53,080 Speaker 4: feel like as a as a culture, we're pretty free 584 00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:56,240 Speaker 4: still to explore whatever you know, tickles our fancy. 585 00:29:56,240 --> 00:29:57,560 Speaker 3: As far as arts concerned. 586 00:29:57,280 --> 00:30:01,280 Speaker 1: I would advance. We are making progress, especially like as 587 00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:03,960 Speaker 1: a country, we're making progress. But what a lot of 588 00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:07,240 Speaker 1: people don't know is that this was a hard one 589 00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:10,479 Speaker 1: road and that it was uphill for a lot of 590 00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:10,960 Speaker 1: the ways. 591 00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:13,480 Speaker 5: And that's why we're still talking about Lenny Bruce. 592 00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:16,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, no, no. 593 00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:19,360 Speaker 5: That's really more than any comedy bit he did, any 594 00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:22,800 Speaker 5: you know, any of those bits which were wonderful. But 595 00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:25,680 Speaker 5: I think that's the reason, you know he's number three 596 00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:28,560 Speaker 5: on the Rolling Stones' Greatest Comedians of All Time or 597 00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:31,000 Speaker 5: something like that, is that's the reason. 598 00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:33,040 Speaker 4: Well, and there's that rim lyric and the end of 599 00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:35,160 Speaker 4: the world as we know at Lenny Bruce is not afraid, 600 00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:37,440 Speaker 4: and I think that's a very important way of looking 601 00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:40,520 Speaker 4: at him. He kind of boldly went and boldly did 602 00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:44,680 Speaker 4: not give a fuck about what was going to happen 603 00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:46,680 Speaker 4: to him as far as the law was concerned. And 604 00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:48,640 Speaker 4: that's why I think maybe overstated the case at the 605 00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:51,200 Speaker 4: top of the show about comedians as truth tellers and 606 00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:53,400 Speaker 4: maybe it's not something they're intending to do at the time. 607 00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:56,120 Speaker 4: Maybe he's just speaking his truth and that's because he 608 00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:59,680 Speaker 4: thinks it's funny, but removed from the time, and you know, 609 00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:02,120 Speaker 4: with his tragic end and all of this court case 610 00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:05,080 Speaker 4: and all these court cases, you can't help but think 611 00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:06,760 Speaker 4: that he was kind of paving the way for this 612 00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:08,960 Speaker 4: kind of free speech and being able to say whatever's 613 00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:11,160 Speaker 4: on your mind and not be persecuted for I think. 614 00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:15,320 Speaker 1: That's what I think you encapsulated it very well there, Wayne, 615 00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:21,400 Speaker 1: because also he's saying things that everybody knows but no 616 00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:22,800 Speaker 1: one is saying in public. 617 00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:25,760 Speaker 5: You know, that's part the hypocrisy of it all, like 618 00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:28,160 Speaker 5: we've never heard these words. 619 00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:33,000 Speaker 1: And speaking of words, ay, yes, seven in particular, right, 620 00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:37,440 Speaker 1: Holy no, No, this is just kind of off to 621 00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:39,600 Speaker 1: the side for us. But at this point in the 622 00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:42,600 Speaker 1: interview things are really heat. No, this is going well to. 623 00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:45,400 Speaker 4: Hot hot MIC's hot mike, only not a hot mic 624 00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:49,320 Speaker 4: on this particular installment because due to a technical difficulty, 625 00:31:49,560 --> 00:31:52,320 Speaker 4: my mic was not properly on, so you're hearing my 626 00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:54,560 Speaker 4: voice through Ben's mike or an adjacent mike. But we 627 00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:57,040 Speaker 4: assure you for part two of this series, my mic 628 00:31:57,120 --> 00:31:57,600 Speaker 4: will be on. 629 00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:02,360 Speaker 1: And we thought this interview is fantastic enough that we 630 00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:06,760 Speaker 1: wanted to preserve it for posterity. So thank you for 631 00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:09,360 Speaker 1: checking this out. This is a rare two parter for us. 632 00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:12,160 Speaker 1: Have we ever done a concurrent two partner? Now this 633 00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:14,960 Speaker 1: is a first for us. Then we're very excited and 634 00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:18,040 Speaker 1: we hope that you tune in for the second part 635 00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:22,840 Speaker 1: of this series, wherein we explore the story of another 636 00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:27,400 Speaker 1: controversial comedian whose case eventually went all the way to 637 00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:28,400 Speaker 1: the Supreme Court. 638 00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:29,640 Speaker 3: I can't wait. 639 00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:32,560 Speaker 4: In the meantime, we'd like to thank our super producer 640 00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:36,760 Speaker 4: Paul deccant. Guest superroducer Paul deccan, our super producer in spirit, 641 00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:38,560 Speaker 4: Casey Pegram, He's always with us. 642 00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:41,080 Speaker 3: We have to thank Alex Williams who composed our theme. 643 00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:44,440 Speaker 1: We'd like to thank Eves, Jeffcote and Christopher Hasiotis our 644 00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:47,520 Speaker 1: crack team of research associates. We of course would like 645 00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:49,960 Speaker 1: to thank Wayne Fetterman, but you'll hear us do that 646 00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:55,040 Speaker 1: plenty in the second episode. And Noel, you know what man, Thank. 647 00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:56,200 Speaker 3: You, yeah man, thank you did. 648 00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:07,080 Speaker 4: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 649 00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:09,320 Speaker 4: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.