1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:04,840 Speaker 1: Oh no, it's not Santa, it's Nancy Grace. Are you 2 00:00:04,880 --> 00:00:07,120 Speaker 1: trying to find the perfect gift for a parent or 3 00:00:07,160 --> 00:00:10,879 Speaker 1: an expecting parent, Please do not give them another onesie. 4 00:00:10,960 --> 00:00:15,080 Speaker 1: Don't do it, and not another plastic toy that's going 5 00:00:15,120 --> 00:00:17,160 Speaker 1: to end up in the trash being or the garage 6 00:00:17,280 --> 00:00:21,320 Speaker 1: or sent to Goodwill this holiday season. Give them something 7 00:00:21,360 --> 00:00:26,000 Speaker 1: that really matters, and what matters more than protecting their child. 8 00:00:26,800 --> 00:00:29,800 Speaker 1: I sat down with the smartest people in the world 9 00:00:29,920 --> 00:00:33,120 Speaker 1: that I know when it comes to child safety, finding 10 00:00:33,159 --> 00:00:38,519 Speaker 1: missing children and fighting back against predators, and what I 11 00:00:38,640 --> 00:00:44,040 Speaker 1: learned is so critical and the information so powerful and important. 12 00:00:44,240 --> 00:00:47,080 Speaker 1: I want you to have it. I want them as 13 00:00:47,200 --> 00:00:51,720 Speaker 1: parents to have it. Go to crimestops here dot com 14 00:00:51,960 --> 00:00:55,760 Speaker 1: for a five part series with action information that you 15 00:00:55,800 --> 00:00:58,640 Speaker 1: can use to change your life and protect your child. 16 00:00:59,160 --> 00:01:02,360 Speaker 1: Because I have done it myself based on what they 17 00:01:02,360 --> 00:01:06,479 Speaker 1: have told me. Give that as a gift, not another onesie. 18 00:01:06,560 --> 00:01:10,560 Speaker 1: Please find out how to protect your child out and 19 00:01:10,600 --> 00:01:13,839 Speaker 1: about at the mall, at the store, at the grocery store, 20 00:01:14,080 --> 00:01:18,840 Speaker 1: in parking lots, in parking decks, at your home, in 21 00:01:19,080 --> 00:01:26,240 Speaker 1: your neighborhood. Find out about protection regarding babysitters nanny's daycare, 22 00:01:26,760 --> 00:01:31,480 Speaker 1: even protection online. It's the very best gift you can 23 00:01:31,520 --> 00:01:35,720 Speaker 1: give any parent. Go to crimestops here dot com and 24 00:01:35,880 --> 00:01:41,440 Speaker 1: join the Justice Nation crime stops here dot com. God 25 00:01:41,440 --> 00:01:53,040 Speaker 1: willing crime stories with Nancy Grace. Put us in your shoes, 26 00:01:53,080 --> 00:01:55,160 Speaker 1: the shoes of your husband who's been going through since 27 00:01:55,560 --> 00:01:58,600 Speaker 1: he was he was awarded the Silver Store nominated for 28 00:01:58,640 --> 00:02:01,040 Speaker 1: the Distinguished Service Cross, which just below the Medal of 29 00:02:01,040 --> 00:02:03,240 Speaker 1: Honor for heroic actions on the battlefield. He wanted to 30 00:02:03,240 --> 00:02:05,360 Speaker 1: bring his men home. What has he been through since? 31 00:02:06,800 --> 00:02:12,040 Speaker 1: This situation is extremely challenging for our family. You know, 32 00:02:12,320 --> 00:02:14,320 Speaker 1: Matt has a twelve year old son, we have a 33 00:02:14,360 --> 00:02:18,840 Speaker 1: brand new baby, and he is once again, you know, 34 00:02:18,919 --> 00:02:22,600 Speaker 1: he was lucky enough to survive war and has come 35 00:02:22,639 --> 00:02:25,720 Speaker 1: home to be ripped apart by his own government and 36 00:02:26,080 --> 00:02:30,440 Speaker 1: the army leadership. So it is extremely disappointing and absolutely 37 00:02:30,440 --> 00:02:33,600 Speaker 1: reprehensible what they have done to him, and for them 38 00:02:33,600 --> 00:02:40,120 Speaker 1: to charge him with premeditated murder, it's almost laughable, and 39 00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:43,720 Speaker 1: it would be laughable if it wasn't so serious and disgusting. 40 00:02:43,880 --> 00:02:47,040 Speaker 1: You are hearing Julie, the wife of former Green Beret 41 00:02:48,080 --> 00:02:54,680 Speaker 1: Major Matthew Goldstein, and I am so mad, I could 42 00:02:54,720 --> 00:03:00,560 Speaker 1: chew a nail in half. Maybe I don't understand facts, 43 00:03:01,160 --> 00:03:08,040 Speaker 1: but from what I do understand. A Green Beret Major 44 00:03:08,280 --> 00:03:15,600 Speaker 1: Matthew Goldstein now facing charges he killed a Taliban bomb maker. Well, 45 00:03:16,680 --> 00:03:20,240 Speaker 1: I thought you got medals for that. I mean, see, Grace, 46 00:03:20,440 --> 00:03:23,079 Speaker 1: this is crime stories. Thank you for being with us. 47 00:03:23,600 --> 00:03:29,600 Speaker 1: I just don't understand exactly what's happening here. A Green 48 00:03:29,960 --> 00:03:37,640 Speaker 1: Beret kills a Taliban bomb maker who is dedicated to 49 00:03:37,760 --> 00:03:45,160 Speaker 1: destroying our country, destroying our families, our way of life, 50 00:03:45,280 --> 00:03:53,680 Speaker 1: our religion, our faith, and Major Matt Goldstein kills him. 51 00:03:53,760 --> 00:03:59,520 Speaker 1: It's war. Do I like it? No? But do I 52 00:03:59,560 --> 00:04:04,880 Speaker 1: want my country, my home, my family, my church to 53 00:04:04,960 --> 00:04:11,320 Speaker 1: be bombed by the Taliban? No? I don't. And now 54 00:04:11,520 --> 00:04:17,800 Speaker 1: he Major Matt Goldstein is facing murder charges. Joining me 55 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:22,240 Speaker 1: in addition to former prosecutor and now Atlanta criminal defense 56 00:04:22,279 --> 00:04:26,359 Speaker 1: attorney Holly Hughes, doctor, Brian Russell, psychologist, lawyer, host of 57 00:04:26,440 --> 00:04:31,960 Speaker 1: investigation Discoveries, hit series Fatal Vows, Cop turn Pi, Vincent Hill, 58 00:04:32,279 --> 00:04:36,080 Speaker 1: author of Playbook to a Murder, Alan Duke, and Jackie 59 00:04:36,080 --> 00:04:38,240 Speaker 1: Howard joining me in the studios. A special guest is 60 00:04:38,279 --> 00:04:42,520 Speaker 1: joining us right now. A former US Air Force JAG 61 00:04:43,040 --> 00:04:50,680 Speaker 1: officer who did a stint at the Pentagon. California lawyer 62 00:04:50,920 --> 00:04:56,840 Speaker 1: Andrew Sharkasky Andrew at you were a prosecutor as well, 63 00:04:57,240 --> 00:05:00,560 Speaker 1: and I'm don't know what you think about this. I 64 00:05:00,600 --> 00:05:04,080 Speaker 1: haven't asked you yet. What do you think? The rules 65 00:05:04,080 --> 00:05:06,560 Speaker 1: of engagement to are tricky and the fog of war 66 00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:10,360 Speaker 1: is real. But no matter what the circumstances, a summary 67 00:05:10,440 --> 00:05:13,800 Speaker 1: execution is never lawful. And the facts that are out 68 00:05:13,800 --> 00:05:16,080 Speaker 1: there right now make this look like it may have 69 00:05:16,160 --> 00:05:21,719 Speaker 1: been a summary execution. Okay, Ah, I don't like anything 70 00:05:21,760 --> 00:05:25,200 Speaker 1: you just said, so let me just take it apart 71 00:05:25,240 --> 00:05:27,320 Speaker 1: bit by bit. First of all, I don't really understand 72 00:05:27,320 --> 00:05:31,120 Speaker 1: what you said, because in my world, I prosecute murders, 73 00:05:31,200 --> 00:05:35,400 Speaker 1: rate childless station, child abuse, arson and I evaluate every 74 00:05:35,400 --> 00:05:38,919 Speaker 1: case and determine what's true what's not. Who said that 75 00:05:39,040 --> 00:05:41,279 Speaker 1: this was a summary execution? And what do you mean 76 00:05:41,320 --> 00:05:44,160 Speaker 1: by summary execution? I mean, did he sneak up on 77 00:05:44,240 --> 00:05:46,200 Speaker 1: the Taliban bomb maker and shoot him in the head? 78 00:05:46,279 --> 00:05:49,760 Speaker 1: I mean, isn't that what we want Greberet to do? 79 00:05:50,320 --> 00:05:52,480 Speaker 1: The facts that we have right now, and this is 80 00:05:52,520 --> 00:05:54,840 Speaker 1: based on the interview that he provided in two thousand 81 00:05:54,880 --> 00:05:57,719 Speaker 1: and sixteen, in large part, but also in other interviews 82 00:05:57,720 --> 00:06:01,840 Speaker 1: and documents that are public today, is that two days 83 00:06:01,920 --> 00:06:06,240 Speaker 1: before the murder or the killing excuse me, of this Afghani, 84 00:06:06,720 --> 00:06:11,080 Speaker 1: there was an explosion that killed two marines tragically. Over 85 00:06:11,120 --> 00:06:15,640 Speaker 1: the next two days there was continued firefights and efforts 86 00:06:15,640 --> 00:06:18,679 Speaker 1: to try to find who was part of al Kada 87 00:06:18,680 --> 00:06:22,000 Speaker 1: and who had done the terrible act. Well, they captured 88 00:06:22,080 --> 00:06:26,200 Speaker 1: apparently this al Qaeda suspected bomb maker, and they held 89 00:06:26,279 --> 00:06:28,960 Speaker 1: him well during the time that he was a detainee. 90 00:06:29,120 --> 00:06:31,760 Speaker 1: He was ordered to be released by higher command. And 91 00:06:31,839 --> 00:06:34,160 Speaker 1: it was after the fact that he was released or 92 00:06:34,200 --> 00:06:37,279 Speaker 1: shortened time to the time period that he was released, 93 00:06:37,320 --> 00:06:41,719 Speaker 1: that Major Goldstein, frustrated with the fact that he couldn't 94 00:06:41,760 --> 00:06:45,960 Speaker 1: maintain the tension of him and not in a combat situation, 95 00:06:47,600 --> 00:06:50,479 Speaker 1: hunted him down and killed him. That's the fact that 96 00:06:50,600 --> 00:06:54,680 Speaker 1: appear on paper from a prosecutor's standpoint, or from prosecutors. Okay, 97 00:06:54,720 --> 00:06:59,080 Speaker 1: hold on, Andrew, Now, I don't even know how many 98 00:06:59,240 --> 00:07:02,440 Speaker 1: literally thousand sins of cases I've prosecuted and many more 99 00:07:02,440 --> 00:07:06,520 Speaker 1: thousands I've investigated. Could you just you got me drinking 100 00:07:06,520 --> 00:07:08,440 Speaker 1: out of a fire hydrant, here's too much at once. 101 00:07:08,720 --> 00:07:13,800 Speaker 1: Could you break it down for non JAG people, which 102 00:07:14,360 --> 00:07:21,239 Speaker 1: is basically military lawyers, break it down in simple terms 103 00:07:21,240 --> 00:07:24,679 Speaker 1: for all of us to understand. Okay, dummy down, Andrew, 104 00:07:24,760 --> 00:07:27,800 Speaker 1: dummy down. I know that's not in your what you 105 00:07:27,880 --> 00:07:32,200 Speaker 1: normally do. Tell me again what the facts are as 106 00:07:32,320 --> 00:07:36,120 Speaker 1: we know them. It seems that two Marines were tragically 107 00:07:36,240 --> 00:07:40,200 Speaker 1: killed when they were going door to door doing their 108 00:07:40,240 --> 00:07:44,800 Speaker 1: efforts to fight against the insurgency. Within two days killed 109 00:07:44,960 --> 00:07:47,960 Speaker 1: out and they were entering the home or entering a building, 110 00:07:48,400 --> 00:07:51,040 Speaker 1: and a bomb went off and it killed these two individuals, 111 00:07:51,040 --> 00:07:53,280 Speaker 1: and that who made the bomb? Do we know who 112 00:07:53,400 --> 00:07:56,240 Speaker 1: made the bomb? We think, based on what Major Goldstein 113 00:07:56,320 --> 00:07:59,800 Speaker 1: tells us, we think that the person he killed made 114 00:07:59,800 --> 00:08:05,800 Speaker 1: that bomb. That's what he oh, the Taliban bomb maker. Right, Okay, Okay, 115 00:08:05,880 --> 00:08:07,520 Speaker 1: let's just let me go with that, because you know 116 00:08:07,560 --> 00:08:09,680 Speaker 1: where I'm going. Go ahead, I know where you're going. 117 00:08:10,000 --> 00:08:14,680 Speaker 1: So time passes a day or so, and I'm not 118 00:08:14,720 --> 00:08:17,880 Speaker 1: the prosecutor on this case. I'm relying on public records 119 00:08:17,880 --> 00:08:20,160 Speaker 1: and statements that have made in the past. But a 120 00:08:20,280 --> 00:08:22,920 Speaker 1: day or so passes and they actually capture this guy. 121 00:08:23,240 --> 00:08:27,440 Speaker 1: There's a lead information that that brings us to this guy. 122 00:08:27,800 --> 00:08:31,720 Speaker 1: Major Goldstein sees the actual bomb making material that he 123 00:08:31,840 --> 00:08:34,720 Speaker 1: thinks links this guy to the bomb that killed our 124 00:08:34,720 --> 00:08:38,000 Speaker 1: two marines. He sees it where supposedly wherever they capture 125 00:08:38,000 --> 00:08:40,040 Speaker 1: this guy. Oh okay, wait, whoa whoa, whoa wait wait, 126 00:08:40,520 --> 00:08:48,360 Speaker 1: So the bomb making materials that Goldstein believes was used 127 00:08:48,520 --> 00:08:55,840 Speaker 1: to blow up to US officers is found in the 128 00:08:55,880 --> 00:09:00,720 Speaker 1: Taliban bomb maker's possession. Okay, so it's now out no longer. 129 00:09:00,800 --> 00:09:05,320 Speaker 1: Just I think he did it, he sees, according to him, 130 00:09:05,760 --> 00:09:10,920 Speaker 1: the bomb making materials. Just like with Timothy McVey, they 131 00:09:10,960 --> 00:09:13,800 Speaker 1: pull him over because of a tail loot and bow. 132 00:09:14,480 --> 00:09:18,800 Speaker 1: A lot of the bomb making materials are clues in 133 00:09:18,840 --> 00:09:24,160 Speaker 1: his car. Okay, Andrew ZIKASKI, And I'm not arguing with 134 00:09:24,240 --> 00:09:27,839 Speaker 1: you because I know you know this area of law 135 00:09:28,200 --> 00:09:32,320 Speaker 1: better than me. So I accept that. Okay, go ahead, 136 00:09:32,559 --> 00:09:35,440 Speaker 1: And I don't mind defending anybody in a situation like this. 137 00:09:35,559 --> 00:09:37,960 Speaker 1: I'm just talking about the facts that seemed to be 138 00:09:38,000 --> 00:09:40,480 Speaker 1: out there right now. And it even seems that Major 139 00:09:40,520 --> 00:09:44,480 Speaker 1: Goldstein had such a good relationship with locals that they 140 00:09:44,559 --> 00:09:47,439 Speaker 1: may have given him some clues on this as well. 141 00:09:47,760 --> 00:09:52,040 Speaker 1: Some corroboration that the Taliban bomb maker was responsible for 142 00:09:52,200 --> 00:09:57,800 Speaker 1: blowing to US officers to tiny bits. Take a listen 143 00:09:57,840 --> 00:10:02,439 Speaker 1: to Major Goldstein's father. It's been extremely difficult, Brian. You 144 00:10:02,559 --> 00:10:04,679 Speaker 1: take a look at what has taken place over the 145 00:10:04,720 --> 00:10:09,240 Speaker 1: past ten years, and to come to this state after 146 00:10:09,280 --> 00:10:13,720 Speaker 1: they've already had a boarding and everything else and found 147 00:10:13,760 --> 00:10:17,360 Speaker 1: not guilty, to bring it up again is a very 148 00:10:17,400 --> 00:10:23,080 Speaker 1: difficult challenge to undertake. What is your son's story, Well, 149 00:10:23,200 --> 00:10:26,000 Speaker 1: my son is a young man of character. He was 150 00:10:26,040 --> 00:10:30,960 Speaker 1: a graduate of West Point. It was a very trying 151 00:10:31,000 --> 00:10:34,480 Speaker 1: time for us as parents when your children go to 152 00:10:34,600 --> 00:10:38,079 Speaker 1: be in the military and spend all that time and 153 00:10:38,559 --> 00:10:43,199 Speaker 1: training in the military to do proper service, and all 154 00:10:43,200 --> 00:10:46,120 Speaker 1: the time we sit and wait back at home waiting 155 00:10:46,160 --> 00:10:49,760 Speaker 1: to hear a phone call or something like that something 156 00:10:49,880 --> 00:10:53,040 Speaker 1: may have happened to do what he has done over 157 00:10:53,120 --> 00:10:57,120 Speaker 1: these past ten years and his time in the military. 158 00:10:58,400 --> 00:11:00,520 Speaker 1: We never did get that phone call. We are very 159 00:11:00,559 --> 00:11:04,439 Speaker 1: blessed for that he's come back in one piece, and 160 00:11:04,559 --> 00:11:08,040 Speaker 1: now to be going through this a second time when 161 00:11:08,760 --> 00:11:12,640 Speaker 1: he's being threatened to be charged with murder and possible 162 00:11:12,760 --> 00:11:18,320 Speaker 1: execution by our government, it's really hard to understand. Special 163 00:11:18,360 --> 00:11:21,040 Speaker 1: guests joining me along with Vincent Hill, doctor Bryan Russell, 164 00:11:21,080 --> 00:11:26,520 Speaker 1: and Holly Hughes. Andrew Turkasky, California lawyer, former US Air 165 00:11:26,559 --> 00:11:30,920 Speaker 1: Force jag Andrew, could you break it down, tell me 166 00:11:30,960 --> 00:11:34,360 Speaker 1: again what the facts are as we know them. So 167 00:11:34,440 --> 00:11:40,520 Speaker 1: they capture them, and they're holding him, and they want 168 00:11:40,559 --> 00:11:44,760 Speaker 1: to keep him. But the rules of engagement, the laws 169 00:11:44,760 --> 00:11:48,400 Speaker 1: of armed conflict at the time said that without sufficient 170 00:11:48,440 --> 00:11:51,440 Speaker 1: evidence kind of what we know is probable cause you 171 00:11:51,480 --> 00:11:54,000 Speaker 1: weren't to keep someone for more than twenty four hours. 172 00:11:54,160 --> 00:11:57,160 Speaker 1: Twenty four hours he had reported this up to his 173 00:11:57,240 --> 00:12:00,400 Speaker 1: chain of well, he said, the rules of engagement at 174 00:12:00,440 --> 00:12:03,719 Speaker 1: the time, are those still the rules of engagement? The 175 00:12:04,600 --> 00:12:10,040 Speaker 1: engagement constantly changed, so to say that. So, No, the 176 00:12:10,120 --> 00:12:14,760 Speaker 1: rules of engagement change from combat to combat, from month 177 00:12:14,800 --> 00:12:17,000 Speaker 1: to month, from year to year, and it can even 178 00:12:17,040 --> 00:12:19,439 Speaker 1: be three different ones applied at the same time from 179 00:12:19,480 --> 00:12:22,000 Speaker 1: different commands. So the rules of engagement can be a 180 00:12:22,080 --> 00:12:27,600 Speaker 1: very complicated set of rules to get through. But there 181 00:12:27,600 --> 00:12:29,559 Speaker 1: are certain things that are very clear. Well, let me 182 00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:31,680 Speaker 1: ask you a question. I don't know really how to 183 00:12:31,760 --> 00:12:37,559 Speaker 1: address you, sir. Is that appropriate with me as California 184 00:12:37,679 --> 00:12:41,439 Speaker 1: lawyer or in former US Air Force JAG officer Andrew Hurkaski. 185 00:12:42,320 --> 00:12:45,800 Speaker 1: Now you say, at the time the bomb makeup could 186 00:12:45,800 --> 00:12:49,080 Speaker 1: be held for twenty four hours. Well, is there a 187 00:12:49,160 --> 00:12:52,200 Speaker 1: different scenario where they could have held him for let's 188 00:12:52,200 --> 00:12:54,680 Speaker 1: just say, seventy two hours or six months or however 189 00:12:54,720 --> 00:12:57,680 Speaker 1: long it took. Oh. Absolutely, I mean people are setting 190 00:12:58,679 --> 00:13:03,240 Speaker 1: get mo for a lot time, so they can't put 191 00:13:03,280 --> 00:13:05,280 Speaker 1: together a case in twenty four hours, so they let 192 00:13:05,320 --> 00:13:08,480 Speaker 1: him walk. Well, it's not that simple. It's that a 193 00:13:08,640 --> 00:13:12,160 Speaker 1: captain sitting in the Hellman Province of Afghanistan doesn't get 194 00:13:12,200 --> 00:13:14,839 Speaker 1: to make the call about how long someone gets to 195 00:13:15,640 --> 00:13:17,839 Speaker 1: be held for. So he's got to report that up 196 00:13:17,880 --> 00:13:21,960 Speaker 1: his chain of command to his higher command, justify whatever 197 00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:24,400 Speaker 1: request he has to hold on to someone, and he 198 00:13:24,400 --> 00:13:27,840 Speaker 1: gets proved for Take a listen to this. The US 199 00:13:27,960 --> 00:13:31,440 Speaker 1: Army has charged with alleged murder a once decorated Green 200 00:13:31,480 --> 00:13:34,840 Speaker 1: Beret who received a Silver Star for valor in Afghanistan, 201 00:13:35,160 --> 00:13:38,640 Speaker 1: but later admitted to killing a detainee during an interview 202 00:13:38,679 --> 00:13:42,040 Speaker 1: with Fox News as Brett Bear in October twenty sixteen, 203 00:13:42,559 --> 00:13:47,880 Speaker 1: did you kill the Talvan bombmaker? Yes. Major Matthew Goldstein 204 00:13:48,080 --> 00:13:51,280 Speaker 1: was a US Special Forces soldier attached to a Marine 205 00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:54,319 Speaker 1: unit that faced heavy fighting in the Battle for Marja 206 00:13:54,480 --> 00:13:58,080 Speaker 1: in February twenty and ten. He later acknowledged during a 207 00:13:58,120 --> 00:14:01,200 Speaker 1: polygraph when applying for a job at the CIA that 208 00:14:01,280 --> 00:14:04,679 Speaker 1: he had killed an alleged Taliban member who they suspected 209 00:14:04,720 --> 00:14:08,000 Speaker 1: of planting a bomb that killed two Marines, Sergeant Jeremy 210 00:14:08,040 --> 00:14:13,559 Speaker 1: mcquerie and Lance Corporal Larry Johnson. You willingly offered up 211 00:14:13,640 --> 00:14:18,319 Speaker 1: these details at the CIA. Right, that's Chris, and that's 212 00:14:18,320 --> 00:14:22,560 Speaker 1: where it all started. Pretty much, according to a senior 213 00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:25,800 Speaker 1: Defense official, Goldstein told the CIA, he killed the Afghan 214 00:14:25,920 --> 00:14:28,960 Speaker 1: off base, placed his body into a pit, and burned it. 215 00:14:29,280 --> 00:14:32,760 Speaker 1: But reached by telephone, Goldstein told Fox News, quote, I 216 00:14:32,840 --> 00:14:35,880 Speaker 1: made a lawful engagement of a known enemy combatant on 217 00:14:35,920 --> 00:14:40,400 Speaker 1: the battlefield. You are hearing Fox reporter Jennifer Griffith reporting 218 00:14:40,760 --> 00:14:44,600 Speaker 1: on what Goldstein says took place. Special guests joining me 219 00:14:44,640 --> 00:14:47,440 Speaker 1: along with Vincent he Old, doctor Bryan Russell, and Holly Hughes. 220 00:14:48,200 --> 00:14:54,200 Speaker 1: Andrew Turkasky, California lawyer, a former US Air Force jag Andrew, 221 00:14:54,280 --> 00:14:58,520 Speaker 1: I just I'm a little concerned about hiding the body 222 00:14:58,520 --> 00:15:01,600 Speaker 1: into pit and burying it, because if it was a 223 00:15:01,680 --> 00:15:06,440 Speaker 1: lawful engagement, why would you hide it. On the other hand, 224 00:15:07,720 --> 00:15:12,200 Speaker 1: it's a Taliban bombmaker, and not only that, isn't it true? 225 00:15:12,520 --> 00:15:16,560 Speaker 1: There's already been a full and complete hearing. He was 226 00:15:16,720 --> 00:15:19,200 Speaker 1: brought to what's called a board of inquiry, which is 227 00:15:19,200 --> 00:15:22,560 Speaker 1: a decision by a board of three officers as to 228 00:15:22,600 --> 00:15:25,920 Speaker 1: whether he should continue serving, kind of like an employment case. 229 00:15:26,640 --> 00:15:32,480 Speaker 1: He was found to be not responsible for one violation, 230 00:15:32,720 --> 00:15:37,080 Speaker 1: but found to be responsible for another, and was decided 231 00:15:37,120 --> 00:15:39,800 Speaker 1: to be kicked out of the army with a less 232 00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:43,080 Speaker 1: than honorable discharge. What was he found responsible for. He 233 00:15:43,160 --> 00:15:46,360 Speaker 1: was found responsible for a violation of what we call 234 00:15:46,880 --> 00:15:50,400 Speaker 1: conduct unbecoming an officer and a gentleman. So that is 235 00:15:50,440 --> 00:15:54,640 Speaker 1: a very vague type of allegation, but it can cover 236 00:15:54,800 --> 00:15:57,960 Speaker 1: any sort of conduct from hold on, hold on trying 237 00:15:57,960 --> 00:16:00,400 Speaker 1: to take notes and I don't want to argue with 238 00:16:00,440 --> 00:16:03,400 Speaker 1: you because I accept that you know more about this 239 00:16:03,880 --> 00:16:07,320 Speaker 1: area of law than I do. So he was after 240 00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:11,760 Speaker 1: a full hearing. It was determined not that he committed 241 00:16:11,800 --> 00:16:18,120 Speaker 1: a murder, but that he committed conduct unbecoming to an officer. 242 00:16:18,280 --> 00:16:21,560 Speaker 1: Not quite. The question of whether there was murder or 243 00:16:21,600 --> 00:16:23,920 Speaker 1: not was not a question before this Board of inquiry. 244 00:16:24,000 --> 00:16:27,640 Speaker 1: It was a question of a violation of the law 245 00:16:27,680 --> 00:16:32,040 Speaker 1: of armed conflict and a question of conduct unbecoming an officer. 246 00:16:33,080 --> 00:16:37,480 Speaker 1: It's not a trial. It's most similar to a human 247 00:16:37,560 --> 00:16:41,080 Speaker 1: resources type of hearing that somebody might get, you know, 248 00:16:41,160 --> 00:16:47,240 Speaker 1: to Hollyh's former prosecutor now criminal defense lawyer. Every other 249 00:16:47,320 --> 00:16:53,120 Speaker 1: day I see and hear about and read about people 250 00:16:53,160 --> 00:17:00,120 Speaker 1: in the military at the Pentagon in high positions overseas, partying, 251 00:17:00,800 --> 00:17:08,040 Speaker 1: bringing in hookers, getting drunk, blah blah blah, having lovers, 252 00:17:08,080 --> 00:17:12,959 Speaker 1: passing on state secrets to lovers, and nothing happens. Nothing, 253 00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:16,680 Speaker 1: they get embarrassed and they may move their post. Here. 254 00:17:16,720 --> 00:17:19,040 Speaker 1: You got a guy that kills the Taliban bab maker, 255 00:17:19,440 --> 00:17:23,520 Speaker 1: and he's being tried for murder. I'm having a hard time, 256 00:17:24,520 --> 00:17:29,439 Speaker 1: you know, making sense of that. I understand completely, Nancy. 257 00:17:29,480 --> 00:17:32,439 Speaker 1: I've been a prosecutor and a defense attorney, and I 258 00:17:32,480 --> 00:17:35,359 Speaker 1: absolutely can see both sides of this story. But I 259 00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:38,560 Speaker 1: think what we need to remember is war is different. 260 00:17:39,440 --> 00:17:43,360 Speaker 1: This isn't a man walking down the street in you know, 261 00:17:43,840 --> 00:17:46,400 Speaker 1: Atlanta where you and I live, who just pulls out 262 00:17:46,400 --> 00:17:48,920 Speaker 1: a gun and shoot someone because he wants to take 263 00:17:48,960 --> 00:17:53,920 Speaker 1: their purse. This is someone who we trained to kill. 264 00:17:54,480 --> 00:17:58,400 Speaker 1: This is someone who we sent into battle for this 265 00:17:58,560 --> 00:18:02,840 Speaker 1: very purpose, to defeat the enemy. And as horrible as 266 00:18:02,880 --> 00:18:07,000 Speaker 1: the taking of life is, that's what we did with him. 267 00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:10,919 Speaker 1: He did his job. So after his defense attorney, I 268 00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:14,520 Speaker 1: would be saying, how dare you you trained him for 269 00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:18,080 Speaker 1: this very thing. This is a man who he took out, 270 00:18:18,119 --> 00:18:21,960 Speaker 1: someone responsible for the killing of two young marines, young 271 00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:26,320 Speaker 1: men who volunteered, who signed up, who said I will 272 00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:30,120 Speaker 1: go and I will serve. And God bless every veteran 273 00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:32,639 Speaker 1: male and female out there who does it, who picks 274 00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:35,760 Speaker 1: up a gun and lays down their life for our country. 275 00:18:35,840 --> 00:18:39,000 Speaker 1: These two young men were blown to bits. And what 276 00:18:39,119 --> 00:18:46,240 Speaker 1: Major Goldstein did was war. Sadly, like you, I don't 277 00:18:46,400 --> 00:18:50,320 Speaker 1: like it, but that's what we sent him there to do. 278 00:18:50,800 --> 00:18:53,000 Speaker 1: Now I can put on my prosecutor's hat and say, 279 00:18:53,080 --> 00:18:57,399 Speaker 1: what about due process? What about you know, holding him 280 00:18:57,680 --> 00:19:01,320 Speaker 1: setting after this? I didn't know that you process that 281 00:19:01,520 --> 00:19:06,160 Speaker 1: is written in the US Constitution hundreds of years ago 282 00:19:06,600 --> 00:19:17,560 Speaker 1: by our founding fathers, had any bearing on war action, bombs, shooting, defending. 283 00:19:18,560 --> 00:19:22,720 Speaker 1: You know, I want to remind everybody about two young 284 00:19:23,119 --> 00:19:29,520 Speaker 1: men one twenty seven, one just nineteen years old. Lance 285 00:19:29,560 --> 00:19:34,119 Speaker 1: Corporal Larry M. Johnson just nineteen. That's just eight years 286 00:19:34,160 --> 00:19:37,960 Speaker 1: older than my baby John David and my baby girl 287 00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:47,560 Speaker 1: Lucy nineteen dead. Sergeant Jeremy are mcquerie just twenty seven, 288 00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:54,520 Speaker 1: both of them blown into bits at a bizarre in 289 00:19:54,640 --> 00:20:02,360 Speaker 1: southern Afghanistan. Think about it, your baby blown to bits 290 00:20:03,400 --> 00:20:06,399 Speaker 1: at a bizarre not in the middle of combat action, 291 00:20:06,560 --> 00:20:19,359 Speaker 1: but at a bizarre. Hi, Nancy Grace here, have you 292 00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:23,600 Speaker 1: ever Googled yourself, your neighbors, somebody at work a crush? 293 00:20:24,080 --> 00:20:27,439 Speaker 1: Fifty seven percent of Americans admits keeping an eye on 294 00:20:27,480 --> 00:20:31,159 Speaker 1: their own online reputation. Forty six admit to using the 295 00:20:31,200 --> 00:20:34,479 Speaker 1: Internet to look up somebody from their past. But Google 296 00:20:34,520 --> 00:20:37,520 Speaker 1: and Facebook the tip of the iceberg when it comes 297 00:20:37,520 --> 00:20:41,320 Speaker 1: to finding personal information. There's an innovative new website called 298 00:20:41,359 --> 00:20:45,760 Speaker 1: truth Finder. It's now revealing the full scoop on millions 299 00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:49,800 Speaker 1: of Americans. Truthfinder can search through hundreds of millions of 300 00:20:49,800 --> 00:20:53,520 Speaker 1: public records in a matter of minutes. Members can literally 301 00:20:53,560 --> 00:20:57,800 Speaker 1: begin searching in seconds for sensitive data like criminal traffic 302 00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:01,480 Speaker 1: arrest records. Before you bringing someone new into your life 303 00:21:01,640 --> 00:21:06,120 Speaker 1: and around the people you care for your children. Consider 304 00:21:06,280 --> 00:21:10,639 Speaker 1: using truth Finder. What you find may astound you. Go 305 00:21:10,760 --> 00:21:14,600 Speaker 1: to truthfinder dot com forward slash Nancy right away to 306 00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:20,800 Speaker 1: start searching truthfinder dot com forward slash Nancy truthfinder dot 307 00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:33,440 Speaker 1: com forward slash Nancy find the truth Crime Stories with 308 00:21:33,560 --> 00:21:40,959 Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. I know him, and to think that he 309 00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:44,480 Speaker 1: killed someone in hold blood, which is another phrase that 310 00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:50,600 Speaker 1: we've heard tossed around, is absolutely I don't even have 311 00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:54,040 Speaker 1: a word for it. It is just so disgustingly we 312 00:21:54,160 --> 00:21:57,199 Speaker 1: have had. You know, this is extremely challenging and it 313 00:21:57,280 --> 00:22:00,679 Speaker 1: is rage inducing, but it is also very humbling to 314 00:22:01,119 --> 00:22:03,400 Speaker 1: feel the love and support from all over this country, 315 00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:05,920 Speaker 1: from the people who support him and know him and 316 00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:09,600 Speaker 1: who have served with him. And I want to thank 317 00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:11,960 Speaker 1: the families of Jeremy and Larry, who are the two 318 00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:15,680 Speaker 1: Marines who did not come home, because I am lucky 319 00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:18,600 Speaker 1: enough to have my husband and I will have my husband, 320 00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:23,679 Speaker 1: and they are not home with their families, their wives, 321 00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:29,919 Speaker 1: their girlfriends, their moms, their sisters. A Green Beret Major 322 00:22:30,119 --> 00:22:34,800 Speaker 1: Matthew Goldsta now facing charges he killed a Tali band 323 00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:39,400 Speaker 1: bomb maker. I mean, see, Grace, this is Crime Stories. 324 00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:42,040 Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us Special Guests, joining me 325 00:22:42,080 --> 00:22:44,679 Speaker 1: along with Vincent Hill, doctor Bryan Russell, and Holly Hughes, 326 00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:50,800 Speaker 1: Andrew Turkasky, California lawyer former US Air Force JAG Major 327 00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:57,000 Speaker 1: Matthew Goldsta, now facing charges he killed a Taliband bomb maker, 328 00:22:57,400 --> 00:23:02,480 Speaker 1: Vincent Hill, former cop turn PI Army counter intelligence specialist. 329 00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:05,679 Speaker 1: Way you in, Vincent, Yeah, Nancy, I'm just befuddled by 330 00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:07,800 Speaker 1: the whole thing. Like like you said, I mean, at 331 00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:10,040 Speaker 1: the end of the day, this was a bomber. If 332 00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:11,960 Speaker 1: you think back to nineteen ninety eight, there was a 333 00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:14,320 Speaker 1: guy with the last name been Laden. May he rot 334 00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:17,679 Speaker 1: in hell, But since we didn't, a lot of people 335 00:23:17,920 --> 00:23:20,360 Speaker 1: died since we didn't stop him back in ninety eight. 336 00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:23,080 Speaker 1: So I don't want to say something that may come 337 00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:26,320 Speaker 1: back to get me in trouble later, Nancy. But you know, 338 00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:30,080 Speaker 1: you know what what I can't say that, you know what, 339 00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:33,120 Speaker 1: I'll just say it myself. I don't want this guy prosecuted. 340 00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:35,760 Speaker 1: I think it's wrong. I think it's wrong that we 341 00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:40,119 Speaker 1: ask them to protect us and he kills a Taliband 342 00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:45,160 Speaker 1: bomb maker because he sees the bomb equipment that locals 343 00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:49,640 Speaker 1: tell him that was the bomb maker. There's enough to 344 00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:52,720 Speaker 1: hold him in detention. As the bomb maker that took 345 00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:57,040 Speaker 1: us lives, so he killed him to doctor Brian Russell, psychologist, lawyer, 346 00:23:57,119 --> 00:24:02,240 Speaker 1: host of investigation Discoveries, hit series, FA vows, Okay, doctor Brian, 347 00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:04,920 Speaker 1: hit me, tell me how wrong I am. I'm braced. 348 00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:07,720 Speaker 1: I'm actually glad that we're talking about this, because this 349 00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:11,280 Speaker 1: is a good context for people listening to learn something 350 00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:13,800 Speaker 1: that they can use when they go to the ballot 351 00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:17,800 Speaker 1: box in the next presidential election. There are some administrations 352 00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:22,320 Speaker 1: who believe that the military is really just sort of 353 00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:26,320 Speaker 1: a law enforcement agency, and that when we catch a 354 00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:29,399 Speaker 1: person on the battlefield who has killed a couple of 355 00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:32,440 Speaker 1: our guys, that person is more like a criminal defendant 356 00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:34,919 Speaker 1: who's entitled to the kinds of rights that we afford 357 00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:38,760 Speaker 1: to criminal defendants. Here. That's how the Obama administration treated 358 00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:43,600 Speaker 1: this stuff. Basically, during the Obama years, the administration would 359 00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:46,120 Speaker 1: rather err on the side of letting this guy go, 360 00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:48,720 Speaker 1: letting him kill a couple more of our guys, or 361 00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:51,000 Speaker 1: maybe a bunch more of our guys, than having the 362 00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:53,120 Speaker 1: New York Times write an article about how we were 363 00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:55,840 Speaker 1: being too mean to our detainees and holding him too 364 00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:59,160 Speaker 1: long without enough due process. And then you have administrations 365 00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:01,760 Speaker 1: like the one we have now that understand that the 366 00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:04,359 Speaker 1: purpose of the military is to kill people and break 367 00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:08,919 Speaker 1: stuff when they're threatening United States interests someplace in the world. 368 00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:13,000 Speaker 1: And if I'm President Trump, I'm pardoning this guy. And 369 00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:15,960 Speaker 1: I think that that's what President Trump will do because 370 00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:19,119 Speaker 1: it's absolutely as we jump in right there. Because to me, 371 00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:23,040 Speaker 1: murderer is not about Obama, Barack Obama or Donald Trump. 372 00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:25,640 Speaker 1: It is not about politics. I don't care who's sitting 373 00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:28,920 Speaker 1: in the White House. I find problems with every politician 374 00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:32,360 Speaker 1: that makes it that far. Everybody complains about Trump, maybe 375 00:25:32,359 --> 00:25:34,840 Speaker 1: they're right. Well, everybody complain about Hillary, maybe they're right, 376 00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:36,960 Speaker 1: They're probably all right. I mean, if you make it 377 00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:41,359 Speaker 1: that foreign politics, you know there's something way wrong with you. Okay. 378 00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:43,959 Speaker 1: So I'm not saying that this has anything to do 379 00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:48,000 Speaker 1: with Barack Obama or Trump, because I don't believe anything 380 00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:52,160 Speaker 1: any of them say. But I know this. My dad 381 00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:55,439 Speaker 1: was a veteran that gave up a basketball scholarship and 382 00:25:55,480 --> 00:25:58,080 Speaker 1: went halfway around the world, first time away from his 383 00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:02,120 Speaker 1: mommy ever, to fight for our country. He never did 384 00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:08,479 Speaker 1: finish college because it was all thrown derailed. And I 385 00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:11,440 Speaker 1: don't want to see a veteran like this guy, Major 386 00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:15,280 Speaker 1: Matt Goldstein prosecuted. Now, I want to go back to 387 00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:19,400 Speaker 1: Andrew Cherkaski, who I must say, knows a lot more 388 00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:23,320 Speaker 1: about this scenario than I do, and that pains me 389 00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:26,040 Speaker 1: to say that, but it's true. Another thing that I 390 00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:30,119 Speaker 1: do know, Andrew, is that parents of Marines all across 391 00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:35,040 Speaker 1: the country are supporting Major Matt Goldstein. And if they're 392 00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:40,720 Speaker 1: supporting him, why shouldn't we Well, I don't think that 393 00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:43,160 Speaker 1: that's something that I can answer why we should or shouldn't. 394 00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:46,960 Speaker 1: What I what I'm saying is that from a independent perspective, 395 00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:49,400 Speaker 1: and I'm a defense attorney now, I defend military members 396 00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:50,919 Speaker 1: every day. That's that's all I do, and that's what 397 00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:54,159 Speaker 1: my law firm is sent. Well, give me your best defense, Andrew, 398 00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:56,240 Speaker 1: give me your best The best defense is that it 399 00:26:56,359 --> 00:26:58,119 Speaker 1: was the fog of war at the time, and that 400 00:26:58,359 --> 00:27:01,000 Speaker 1: Major Goldstein at the time, I really believe that this 401 00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:05,040 Speaker 1: person presented an imminent threaten and needed to execute the 402 00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:09,119 Speaker 1: mission in order to proceed. The facts don't support that 403 00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:11,439 Speaker 1: as they are right now, but that's the best defense 404 00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:14,159 Speaker 1: if that can be made. Listen, A senior US defense 405 00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:18,200 Speaker 1: official confirmed to Fox News. The Army's Criminal Investigation Command 406 00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:21,760 Speaker 1: reopened the investigation based on new evidence that includes the 407 00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:26,600 Speaker 1: green Berets public statements. The Defense Department's Inspector General investigated 408 00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:29,719 Speaker 1: the army's original handling of the case, which found not 409 00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:33,119 Speaker 1: enough evidence to prosecute Goldstein. After a six day hearing, 410 00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:37,320 Speaker 1: California Congressman Duncan Hunter, a former Marine who served in Iraq, 411 00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:41,000 Speaker 1: has champion Goldstein's case. He wrote the following letter to 412 00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:44,800 Speaker 1: Army Chief General Mark Milly quote, Goldstein is an American hero, 413 00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:47,679 Speaker 1: a true warrior. In fact, why the Army has hell 414 00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:51,480 Speaker 1: bent on destroying a combat hero's career is truly astonishing. 415 00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:55,320 Speaker 1: I'm confident that Army CID has more important things to 416 00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:58,800 Speaker 1: do than investigate Goldstein again. And you both have the 417 00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:01,920 Speaker 1: ability to fix this stupidity. What is it like going 418 00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:10,000 Speaker 1: from war hero to accused war criminal? Are you angry? No, 419 00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:17,080 Speaker 1: it has been incredibly painful and very difficult over the 420 00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:21,080 Speaker 1: last year. Of these years, everyone who served with me 421 00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:26,760 Speaker 1: stood by me, and so kind of it's over and yeah, 422 00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:29,240 Speaker 1: a lot of times move on. Sources tell me that 423 00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:33,000 Speaker 1: when Goldstein admitted killing a man in cold blood on television, 424 00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:36,200 Speaker 1: the Army investigators had no choice but to reopen the case. 425 00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:40,000 Speaker 1: Major Goldstein claims that strict rules of engagement forced him 426 00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:43,240 Speaker 1: to release the alleged Taliban bombmaker, who had been fingered 427 00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:45,840 Speaker 1: by an Afghan informant, and that he had no choice 428 00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:48,160 Speaker 1: to act as he did. But those to whom I've 429 00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:50,800 Speaker 1: spoken here at the Pentagon say he did have a choice. 430 00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:54,440 Speaker 1: And now Major Matthew Goldstein has been charged with premeditated 431 00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:57,440 Speaker 1: murder and could face the death penalty. You are hearing 432 00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:01,080 Speaker 1: reporter Jennifer Griffith. Take a listen to what Major Goldstein's 433 00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:04,440 Speaker 1: wife Julie says. You know, my message is that Matt 434 00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:07,360 Speaker 1: was cleared of wrongdoing in two thousand and fifteen. We 435 00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:10,320 Speaker 1: have moved on with our lives. We have moved we 436 00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:13,280 Speaker 1: have had a new baby. We have moved on. We 437 00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:15,840 Speaker 1: are waiting for someone to do the right thing. It 438 00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:19,040 Speaker 1: is time for someone in army leadership to crawl out 439 00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:22,480 Speaker 1: from the blanket of anonymity under which they hide and 440 00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:25,320 Speaker 1: take responsibility for this and step in and do the 441 00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:30,320 Speaker 1: right thing. Did you find the suspected Taliban bombmaker? We 442 00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:35,640 Speaker 1: did capture a fighter and then id material weapons. We 443 00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:40,560 Speaker 1: recovered radios, a small ecome is the Taliman we're using, 444 00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:43,280 Speaker 1: so quite a bit of material. But at the time 445 00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:46,160 Speaker 1: you think this is the guy. Yeah. Absolutely. After he 446 00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:50,640 Speaker 1: was detained, the suspected bombmaker refused to speak to investigators 447 00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:54,120 Speaker 1: because of strict rules of engagement, they were ordered to 448 00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:57,760 Speaker 1: release him. You can strew it as a law enforcement mindset. 449 00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:00,239 Speaker 1: There's limits on how long you can hold guys. So 450 00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:02,760 Speaker 1: we would pull these guys out. We'd say, clearly, these 451 00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:06,040 Speaker 1: are enemy combatants, these are Taliban, these are bad dudes. 452 00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:08,080 Speaker 1: We'd pull him out, but we wouldn't have any place 453 00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:10,560 Speaker 1: to hold him, so eventually we'd let him back and 454 00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:14,760 Speaker 1: they would cause terror to the community again. Right. In fact, 455 00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:17,480 Speaker 1: you just really you realize quickly you make things worse. 456 00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:21,920 Speaker 1: It is an inevitable outcome that people who are cooperating 457 00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:27,160 Speaker 1: with coalition enforcements, when identified, will suffer some terrible torture 458 00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:31,680 Speaker 1: or be killing. Shortly after releasing the Taliban detainee, Goldstein 459 00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:35,040 Speaker 1: took matters into his own hands. Did you kill the 460 00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:40,280 Speaker 1: Taliban bombmaker? Yes, you are hearing from our friends Brett 461 00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:43,920 Speaker 1: Beyer at Fox News on a show entitled How We 462 00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:48,520 Speaker 1: Fight Matthew Goldstein, Major Matthew Golstein explaining the circumstances leading 463 00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:52,480 Speaker 1: up to him killing a Taliban bombmaker, beginning with the 464 00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:55,480 Speaker 1: capture of the bomb maker. Now, this is one thing 465 00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:58,600 Speaker 1: we haven't touched on. Joining me in addition to Vincent Hill, 466 00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:01,280 Speaker 1: doctor Brian Russell, and Holly Hughes Alan do you can 467 00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:05,920 Speaker 1: Jackie Howard special guest California lawyer former Air Force JAG 468 00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:11,120 Speaker 1: officer Andrew Cherkaski is that if he is convicted, Major 469 00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:15,360 Speaker 1: Matt Goldstein can get the death penalty. He could die 470 00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:20,320 Speaker 1: for killing an enemy combatant. Well, it hasn't been decided 471 00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:22,880 Speaker 1: that it would be a capital case, but absolutely if 472 00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:27,640 Speaker 1: he if he had a premeditated murder, he faces life 473 00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:30,880 Speaker 1: in prison. At least. Let me ask you this, who 474 00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:33,960 Speaker 1: is going to be his jury? Well, the jury would 475 00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:36,720 Speaker 1: be other officers who are senior and ranked to him. 476 00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:41,880 Speaker 1: So these are all very experienced, high ranking individuals who 477 00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:45,560 Speaker 1: have the experience of what war looks like, what battle 478 00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:49,840 Speaker 1: looks like. And it would be similar to the civilian process, 479 00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:53,840 Speaker 1: but generally higher educated and higher ranking than you would 480 00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:56,719 Speaker 1: typically see in a civilian jury. Well, let me understand this. 481 00:31:56,800 --> 00:32:00,360 Speaker 1: So he's being charged with murder in military court, not 482 00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:05,160 Speaker 1: our court. That's right. Military courtmercial is very similar to 483 00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:08,640 Speaker 1: a federal criminal trial, but there are uniquenesses. Take a 484 00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:13,000 Speaker 1: listen to feel Stackhouse Gholsting civilian lawyer. His patrol that 485 00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:16,480 Speaker 1: was approximately a fifty man plus patrol was under attack 486 00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:21,280 Speaker 1: by a superior enemy force and Matt engaged the enemy 487 00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:27,400 Speaker 1: directly in indirect fire, calling in air support, deploying gustav 488 00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:32,640 Speaker 1: Recoruless rifle rockets at the enemy. It was a heroic 489 00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:35,719 Speaker 1: battle and Matt was recognized for that, and it has 490 00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:38,320 Speaker 1: absolutely nothing to do with the allegations that have been 491 00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:40,880 Speaker 1: made against him. Yet the Army, with no due process 492 00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:45,560 Speaker 1: rights afforded to Matt, rescinded the Distinguished Service Cross that 493 00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:47,960 Speaker 1: the Secretary of the Army had actually signed, and then 494 00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:50,400 Speaker 1: revoked a silver Star medal. Again, it had nothing to 495 00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:53,360 Speaker 1: do with the allegations that are facing him today. In 496 00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:57,680 Speaker 1: Matt's particular case, there were three different sets of rules 497 00:32:57,680 --> 00:33:01,360 Speaker 1: that he was following, I SAT rules, US Forces Afghanistan 498 00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:05,520 Speaker 1: rules and Special Operations Task Force rules, so he had 499 00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:07,560 Speaker 1: three different masters that he was serving at the time. 500 00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:10,920 Speaker 1: He wasn't allowed to keep people detained for more than 501 00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:14,280 Speaker 1: twenty four hours. And another very important piece for the 502 00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:18,880 Speaker 1: public to understand, as with this investigation started by the 503 00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:22,000 Speaker 1: Criminal Investigation Division of the Army, a narrative was put 504 00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:25,280 Speaker 1: out in the very early stages that Matt released this 505 00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:28,600 Speaker 1: Taliban bombmaker walked him back to the house that he 506 00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:32,320 Speaker 1: was operating on and assassinated him in his house, and 507 00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:36,280 Speaker 1: that was never said, and the Army repeated that narrative 508 00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:41,000 Speaker 1: consistently through that investigation until Matt's administrative hearing, when they 509 00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:44,440 Speaker 1: had a CID agent, a Criminal Investigation Division agent on 510 00:33:44,480 --> 00:33:46,880 Speaker 1: the witness stand under oath and admitted that that was 511 00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:50,520 Speaker 1: a lie in the investigation and they never corrected it. 512 00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:54,080 Speaker 1: The prosecutor in this case is intimated to me that 513 00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:58,360 Speaker 1: they have new evidence. But this allegation happened in twenty ten, 514 00:33:58,560 --> 00:34:02,200 Speaker 1: in February of twenty ten. The Army became aware of 515 00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:05,400 Speaker 1: it in twenty eleven, and it's been investigated the entire time. 516 00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:08,879 Speaker 1: What new evidence could there possibly be from twenty ten, 517 00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:11,239 Speaker 1: and that's the question that they'll have to answer. You know, 518 00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:15,560 Speaker 1: parents Marines all across the country are outraged and dumbfounded 519 00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:20,560 Speaker 1: that a man who avenged Marines killings killing a Taliban 520 00:34:20,640 --> 00:34:25,680 Speaker 1: bombmaker is now being tried for murder. Now, David Kleinschmidt, 521 00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:28,760 Speaker 1: the stepfather of one of the two young men blown 522 00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:34,880 Speaker 1: up at an Afghan bazaar, Sergeant Jeremy RT. Mcquery, thinks 523 00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:39,440 Speaker 1: it's crazy that a decorated Green Berets Special Forces Commando 524 00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:44,920 Speaker 1: Major Matthew Goldstein could actually face the death penalty. Listen 525 00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:49,440 Speaker 1: to Goldstein in his original interview. Years later, he started 526 00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:52,360 Speaker 1: talking about his attack on the bombmaker in a job 527 00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:56,960 Speaker 1: interview with the CIA. You willingly offered up Dales right 528 00:34:57,360 --> 00:35:00,600 Speaker 1: at the CIA. Right, that's Chris, and that's where it 529 00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:05,760 Speaker 1: all started. Pretty much. Goldstein, who had received a Silver 530 00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:09,680 Speaker 1: Star for valorie in Afghanistan, now found himself accused of 531 00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:14,279 Speaker 1: murder and conspiracy. What followed was the Army's version of 532 00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:19,640 Speaker 1: a thorough police investigation. I told the Army CID investigator, 533 00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:23,320 Speaker 1: I don't know anything, I don't remember anything. I never 534 00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:31,359 Speaker 1: to be grudged investigators or even my commanders for doing 535 00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:35,640 Speaker 1: an investigation. If they're concerned about my judgment or my behavior, 536 00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:39,239 Speaker 1: then then I would expect that they would look into it. Ultimately, 537 00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:43,440 Speaker 1: after a review by a military tribunal, no charges were filed, 538 00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:47,160 Speaker 1: but Goldstein was removed from the Special Forces, his silver 539 00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:51,000 Speaker 1: Star was taken away, and he was denied a position 540 00:35:51,120 --> 00:35:54,399 Speaker 1: at the CIA. What is it like going from war 541 00:35:54,480 --> 00:36:01,200 Speaker 1: hero to accused war criminal? Am angry? No, it has 542 00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:05,720 Speaker 1: been incredibly painful and very difficult over the last years. 543 00:36:06,400 --> 00:36:12,319 Speaker 1: Everyone who served with me stood by me, and so 544 00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:14,560 Speaker 1: it's over and yeah, a lot of times move on. Well, 545 00:36:14,719 --> 00:36:17,360 Speaker 1: I'm just I hear what you're saying, Andrew Zikaski, and 546 00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:20,480 Speaker 1: I appreciate it them actually not arguing with you, because 547 00:36:20,520 --> 00:36:22,640 Speaker 1: I accept you know more in this field than I do. 548 00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:25,000 Speaker 1: But you know, when something, as I always say, when 549 00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:29,840 Speaker 1: something doesn't feel right, it's not right. To doctor Brian Russell, 550 00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:34,279 Speaker 1: you hear the parents of these two slay marines, these 551 00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:38,560 Speaker 1: two really boys once in nineteen ones twenty seven, just 552 00:36:38,680 --> 00:36:43,080 Speaker 1: in shock that Goldstein's being prosecuted. How are the families 553 00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:45,560 Speaker 1: of marines supposed to take this? Well, it's like you 554 00:36:45,680 --> 00:36:48,680 Speaker 1: just said, something feels wrong about this, and I'll tell 555 00:36:48,719 --> 00:36:52,279 Speaker 1: you what it is. What's wrong is to send young 556 00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:57,120 Speaker 1: Americans into combat and then tie their hands such that 557 00:36:57,160 --> 00:36:59,880 Speaker 1: they have to watch the enemy who just killed a 558 00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:03,360 Speaker 1: couple of their friends walk away to do it again. 559 00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:06,960 Speaker 1: It's the same thing. This is very reminiscent of Ignacio Ramos, 560 00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:09,520 Speaker 1: remember him. He was the border patrol agent that we 561 00:37:09,640 --> 00:37:13,920 Speaker 1: prosecuted and sentenced to eleven years in prison for having 562 00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:17,520 Speaker 1: shot a drug smuggler on our border in the butt 563 00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:21,799 Speaker 1: back in the early two thousands. And President Bush ended 564 00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:25,240 Speaker 1: up commuting his sentence, just like Trump needs to pardon 565 00:37:25,560 --> 00:37:28,120 Speaker 1: this guy because the wrong here was on the part 566 00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:31,239 Speaker 1: of the administration, not on the part of Goldstein. Well, 567 00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:37,879 Speaker 1: according to Durkasky, this was a premeditated murder. I disagree, 568 00:37:38,239 --> 00:37:40,400 Speaker 1: Alan Day. Let me ask you a question, my buddy 569 00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:44,760 Speaker 1: joining me from California, why did you join the military. 570 00:37:44,840 --> 00:37:46,560 Speaker 1: When I was about nine or ten years old, the 571 00:37:46,640 --> 00:37:48,959 Speaker 1: Vietnam War was going on, and there was the song 572 00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:50,920 Speaker 1: that I think it was on the Ed Sullivan Show 573 00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:53,759 Speaker 1: that I saw. It was the Ballad of the Green 574 00:37:53,800 --> 00:37:56,520 Speaker 1: Beret Barry Saddler, and I got goosebumps. I'm getting them 575 00:37:56,560 --> 00:38:00,160 Speaker 1: right now thinking about put silver wings on my son's Yes, 576 00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:02,520 Speaker 1: just like your dad. My dad served in World War Two, 577 00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:06,680 Speaker 1: and you know, despite Vietnam and everything, I was really 578 00:38:06,719 --> 00:38:10,800 Speaker 1: interested in that having those silver wings. So I turned 579 00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:13,040 Speaker 1: eighteen that week I was at the recruiter's office, joined 580 00:38:13,080 --> 00:38:15,640 Speaker 1: the US Army and eventually went to airborne school and 581 00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:17,799 Speaker 1: got those jump wings, the silver wings on my chest. 582 00:38:18,120 --> 00:38:24,759 Speaker 1: Let's go out with this, Souls from the sky. Farless 583 00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:31,279 Speaker 1: men who jump and dine, men who mean just what 584 00:38:31,520 --> 00:38:37,120 Speaker 1: they say. Good brave men of the Green, Blue Rain. 585 00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:41,799 Speaker 1: Nancy Grace crime story, signing harding goodbye friends on the