1 00:00:05,360 --> 00:00:08,920 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Emily, and you're listening to stuff Mom 2 00:00:09,000 --> 00:00:22,439 Speaker 1: never told you. Today we're talking about a sort of 3 00:00:22,520 --> 00:00:27,640 Speaker 1: phenomenon in today's working world that I find truly fascinating. 4 00:00:27,640 --> 00:00:32,839 Speaker 1: It's becoming one of those omnipresent parts of our lives 5 00:00:32,880 --> 00:00:36,159 Speaker 1: that's so everywhere that I don't even think we're noticing it. 6 00:00:36,640 --> 00:00:40,800 Speaker 1: And what it's really in reference to is the gig economy, 7 00:00:41,040 --> 00:00:43,879 Speaker 1: the gig economy. So we're gonna talk through the gals 8 00:00:43,880 --> 00:00:45,879 Speaker 1: of the gig economy. What it looks like to be 9 00:00:45,920 --> 00:00:48,840 Speaker 1: a woman working for I don't know, a ride share 10 00:00:48,880 --> 00:00:53,200 Speaker 1: app or glam squad or any one of those, uh, 11 00:00:53,280 --> 00:00:58,400 Speaker 1: you know, sharing economy, gig based work platforms like Fiber 12 00:00:58,560 --> 00:01:02,360 Speaker 1: or Etsy, and what it looks like. Is it a 13 00:01:02,360 --> 00:01:05,800 Speaker 1: good thing or not? Um? Is it empowering or is 14 00:01:05,840 --> 00:01:10,040 Speaker 1: it exploiting women? Workers? So this is something that's really 15 00:01:10,040 --> 00:01:12,520 Speaker 1: near and dear to our hearts, right it is. I mean, 16 00:01:13,120 --> 00:01:15,760 Speaker 1: we both have a background in labor organizing, and I 17 00:01:15,760 --> 00:01:18,640 Speaker 1: know we talk a lot about workers rights and how 18 00:01:18,640 --> 00:01:22,360 Speaker 1: women can advocate for them. The workers were down for 19 00:01:22,400 --> 00:01:26,399 Speaker 1: the workers, um, but the gig economy feels very new, 20 00:01:26,560 --> 00:01:30,880 Speaker 1: very different, and very much like the future of work. Yeah, 21 00:01:30,920 --> 00:01:33,120 Speaker 1: I mean part of me. When we were researching this 22 00:01:33,560 --> 00:01:36,959 Speaker 1: topic today, I thought like, I'm very uncomfortable with the 23 00:01:37,000 --> 00:01:39,479 Speaker 1: idea of like this being the future. But perhaps it's 24 00:01:39,520 --> 00:01:42,360 Speaker 1: that like folks who folks who are like diving in 25 00:01:42,440 --> 00:01:44,560 Speaker 1: head first. They're like, yeah, I'm just getting to jump 26 00:01:44,640 --> 00:01:46,200 Speaker 1: on the future of work, like this is what we're 27 00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:49,040 Speaker 1: all gonna be doing. We'll do it now. I'm being 28 00:01:49,080 --> 00:01:51,240 Speaker 1: like left behind because I'm like, well, I don't know 29 00:01:51,280 --> 00:01:53,200 Speaker 1: if this is good. Well, I think about the fact 30 00:01:53,240 --> 00:01:55,240 Speaker 1: that my grandfather worked for the same company for a 31 00:01:55,280 --> 00:01:57,800 Speaker 1: bazillion years and they used to send their workers home 32 00:01:57,840 --> 00:02:01,440 Speaker 1: with a Thanksgiving turkey, Like that was how a worker 33 00:02:01,600 --> 00:02:05,560 Speaker 1: That mutual loyalty that I was expected from a worker 34 00:02:05,840 --> 00:02:09,200 Speaker 1: and an employee is like so passe, And how people 35 00:02:09,200 --> 00:02:11,520 Speaker 1: don't even want that anymore. Like I think some people 36 00:02:11,560 --> 00:02:14,639 Speaker 1: would disagree with that assessment. But that's the conflict here, 37 00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:19,000 Speaker 1: is that what you know, are people loving this flexibility 38 00:02:19,040 --> 00:02:21,320 Speaker 1: that comes with being a gig economy worker are people 39 00:02:21,320 --> 00:02:24,160 Speaker 1: hating it? So I think we should maybe start with 40 00:02:24,280 --> 00:02:28,120 Speaker 1: defining economy. I think it's important that we start with 41 00:02:28,160 --> 00:02:33,240 Speaker 1: a clarification around that. And yet I'm afraid to disappoint you, Bridget, 42 00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:37,040 Speaker 1: because I'm reading straight off of the Bureau of Labor 43 00:02:37,800 --> 00:02:40,640 Speaker 1: um that what is it, the Bureau of Labor Statistics 44 00:02:40,680 --> 00:02:43,760 Speaker 1: that reports on these measures as it looks, you know, 45 00:02:43,919 --> 00:02:47,640 Speaker 1: nationally across the United States, and this is from but 46 00:02:47,720 --> 00:02:50,600 Speaker 1: they say listen for the purposes of this article, like 47 00:02:50,639 --> 00:02:54,120 Speaker 1: there is no official definition of the gig economy or 48 00:02:54,200 --> 00:02:56,920 Speaker 1: for that matter, a gig, but for the purposes of 49 00:02:56,960 --> 00:02:59,840 Speaker 1: this article, a gig describes a single project or to 50 00:03:00,040 --> 00:03:03,160 Speaker 1: ask for which a worker is hired, often through a 51 00:03:03,200 --> 00:03:07,400 Speaker 1: digital marketplace to work on demand. So sometimes these are 52 00:03:07,440 --> 00:03:12,280 Speaker 1: short term jobs. Sometimes it's a single deliverable project. But 53 00:03:12,280 --> 00:03:15,080 Speaker 1: what it really reminds me of is contract labor totally 54 00:03:15,480 --> 00:03:18,639 Speaker 1: um and sort of like mirroring your discomfort around this. 55 00:03:18,800 --> 00:03:20,840 Speaker 1: Something that would have pointed out is that because the 56 00:03:20,880 --> 00:03:23,960 Speaker 1: gig economy and things like uber and left are relatively new, 57 00:03:24,080 --> 00:03:27,200 Speaker 1: there actually aren't that many like conclusive, long term studies 58 00:03:27,200 --> 00:03:32,600 Speaker 1: on it, right, Like we have lots of these recently, 59 00:03:32,639 --> 00:03:34,520 Speaker 1: and so a lot of the a lot of the 60 00:03:34,600 --> 00:03:37,040 Speaker 1: studies and research around it is a little bit new. 61 00:03:37,080 --> 00:03:40,080 Speaker 1: Thereforeward kind of getting the lay of the land to 62 00:03:40,400 --> 00:03:42,520 Speaker 1: a little bit right. I mean, the stats on this 63 00:03:42,720 --> 00:03:45,600 Speaker 1: make my give me whiplash actually, because we're looking really 64 00:03:45,600 --> 00:03:48,840 Speaker 1: into how how many women are in this gig economy, 65 00:03:48,920 --> 00:03:51,560 Speaker 1: and I frankly believe that it's changing by the minute, 66 00:03:51,600 --> 00:03:54,440 Speaker 1: because we've seen that women are on track to be 67 00:03:54,480 --> 00:03:57,040 Speaker 1: the majority of the workers in the gig economy. That's 68 00:03:57,080 --> 00:04:01,240 Speaker 1: that's pretty clearly repeated through lots of the from publications 69 00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:04,640 Speaker 1: that we've been reading. And according to the Harvard Universities 70 00:04:04,680 --> 00:04:08,720 Speaker 1: study on so called alternative work, they found that from 71 00:04:08,760 --> 00:04:12,960 Speaker 1: two thousand and five, the percentage of women who were 72 00:04:13,000 --> 00:04:17,600 Speaker 1: employed in an alternative work arrangement more than doubled, rising 73 00:04:17,600 --> 00:04:21,120 Speaker 1: from eight point three percent to seventeen percent. But if 74 00:04:21,160 --> 00:04:23,080 Speaker 1: you think about it, that's still not a huge proportion 75 00:04:23,279 --> 00:04:27,240 Speaker 1: of the workforce of women are working in an alternative 76 00:04:27,560 --> 00:04:30,919 Speaker 1: work arrangement. So I remember I was actually up on 77 00:04:31,000 --> 00:04:34,320 Speaker 1: Capitol Hill. Um a few I want to say, like 78 00:04:34,360 --> 00:04:38,600 Speaker 1: two years ago, there was a forum, a discussion that 79 00:04:38,680 --> 00:04:40,600 Speaker 1: was being hosted by the a f l C. I oh, 80 00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:44,720 Speaker 1: Elizabeth Horne was there. They were talking about the economic 81 00:04:44,920 --> 00:04:48,280 Speaker 1: platform that must be put forward for women, so about 82 00:04:48,320 --> 00:04:55,000 Speaker 1: women's equality through economics, And I saw nothing about anything 83 00:04:55,160 --> 00:04:58,359 Speaker 1: relating to contract workers there, and given the fact that 84 00:04:58,400 --> 00:05:00,560 Speaker 1: I worked primarily with my millennia els, I think I 85 00:05:00,600 --> 00:05:04,120 Speaker 1: have a disproportionate exposure to women in the gig economy. 86 00:05:04,160 --> 00:05:07,039 Speaker 1: I raised my hand, uh, and they were like, who 87 00:05:07,040 --> 00:05:10,560 Speaker 1: the hell is this? Like bleached blonde, pixie haired, like 88 00:05:10,680 --> 00:05:16,040 Speaker 1: casually attired woman on Capitol Hill. Who's asking? Yeah. They 89 00:05:16,040 --> 00:05:18,400 Speaker 1: were all like, I was like shoving the free cookies 90 00:05:18,440 --> 00:05:19,800 Speaker 1: down my throat, you know what I mean. I was 91 00:05:19,839 --> 00:05:23,760 Speaker 1: like there for the food, but also listening, and everyone 92 00:05:23,839 --> 00:05:25,680 Speaker 1: was all capital held out. It was like the Khaki 93 00:05:25,760 --> 00:05:29,720 Speaker 1: Capital when I won with blazers and all that. And 94 00:05:29,760 --> 00:05:31,760 Speaker 1: I'm there and I'm like, why are you doing? Like 95 00:05:31,800 --> 00:05:35,240 Speaker 1: where's the conversation around contract workers? That's what I asked. 96 00:05:35,640 --> 00:05:38,400 Speaker 1: And these are intelligent people who are at the forefront 97 00:05:38,400 --> 00:05:42,440 Speaker 1: of statistics and labor and policy. And I was told 98 00:05:42,480 --> 00:05:45,640 Speaker 1: at the time they're not a huge proportion of the 99 00:05:45,720 --> 00:05:48,640 Speaker 1: labor force. They make up a very small proportion of them. 100 00:05:48,760 --> 00:05:51,320 Speaker 1: And mean what I'm thinking, Well, I've I'm in that, 101 00:05:51,839 --> 00:05:54,920 Speaker 1: I'm in that small proportion. So do you not want 102 00:05:54,960 --> 00:05:57,000 Speaker 1: to address this at all? So even at the time 103 00:05:57,040 --> 00:05:59,800 Speaker 1: when frankly, the underlying assumption at that point was that 104 00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:03,359 Speaker 1: here we are preparing for Hillary Clinton's presidency, what should 105 00:06:03,400 --> 00:06:07,039 Speaker 1: we be advocating for. The discussion was very much focused 106 00:06:07,120 --> 00:06:11,040 Speaker 1: on full time employees rights and how can we help 107 00:06:11,080 --> 00:06:15,240 Speaker 1: full time employee employees get paid, parental leave policies and 108 00:06:15,240 --> 00:06:17,400 Speaker 1: all the other stuff we discussed on this podcast. Right 109 00:06:17,400 --> 00:06:20,160 Speaker 1: and again, I mean, I think that that story illustrates 110 00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:22,520 Speaker 1: something so important because yeah, I mean, I've been a 111 00:06:22,560 --> 00:06:26,080 Speaker 1: contract worker for a lot of my free I think 112 00:06:26,120 --> 00:06:28,839 Speaker 1: people don't necessarily talk about their employments. Dat is like 113 00:06:28,880 --> 00:06:31,839 Speaker 1: what their situation is, right, are they working three like gigs? 114 00:06:32,160 --> 00:06:34,080 Speaker 1: What are they doing? And so you don't really know, 115 00:06:35,080 --> 00:06:38,200 Speaker 1: you know, necessarily an accurate depiction of like how many 116 00:06:38,240 --> 00:06:43,640 Speaker 1: folks this actually does account for, and typically almost universally 117 00:06:43,720 --> 00:06:47,479 Speaker 1: contract workers gig economy workers do not receive any kind 118 00:06:47,480 --> 00:06:51,840 Speaker 1: of benefit and often don't have tax withholding as a 119 00:06:51,839 --> 00:06:53,640 Speaker 1: part of the arrangement. Those are two important things I 120 00:06:53,680 --> 00:06:56,560 Speaker 1: think definitely worth mentioning. So if you're a contract worker, 121 00:06:57,800 --> 00:07:01,080 Speaker 1: I'll speak from experience. The Exchange, the health Care Exchange 122 00:07:01,160 --> 00:07:06,000 Speaker 1: opened up the year I started my company, and I 123 00:07:06,040 --> 00:07:08,120 Speaker 1: was kicked off my parents insurance, which I was able 124 00:07:08,160 --> 00:07:11,480 Speaker 1: to get back onto, you know, thank you Obama, Obamacare 125 00:07:11,720 --> 00:07:15,559 Speaker 1: until I was twenty six, Thanks Obama. So I start 126 00:07:15,600 --> 00:07:18,320 Speaker 1: my business when I'm twenty six years old because I 127 00:07:18,360 --> 00:07:22,200 Speaker 1: was able to get h insurance through my parents. Then 128 00:07:22,320 --> 00:07:26,040 Speaker 1: I graduate from that category of age bracket, like it's 129 00:07:26,080 --> 00:07:29,920 Speaker 1: like okay, emerging adults, to get your stuff together, and 130 00:07:30,200 --> 00:07:34,200 Speaker 1: the exchange, the marketplace opens up the January that I 131 00:07:34,280 --> 00:07:37,000 Speaker 1: was churning that year and would have been kicked off. 132 00:07:37,000 --> 00:07:39,280 Speaker 1: So I was able to get insurance through the exchange, 133 00:07:39,600 --> 00:07:41,800 Speaker 1: so I could have my own company, that my little 134 00:07:41,800 --> 00:07:45,840 Speaker 1: fledgling llc UM that enabled me to be a part 135 00:07:45,880 --> 00:07:48,920 Speaker 1: of the marketplace, like a part of the small business world. 136 00:07:49,600 --> 00:07:52,120 Speaker 1: And that, I mean, that's just one example of what 137 00:07:52,160 --> 00:07:53,400 Speaker 1: we're going to come back to you at the end, 138 00:07:53,440 --> 00:07:56,760 Speaker 1: which is on like how social safety nets can change 139 00:07:56,840 --> 00:08:00,400 Speaker 1: to make the gig economy less risky for workers. Yeah, 140 00:08:00,440 --> 00:08:02,680 Speaker 1: I mean, I wish that my story of being in 141 00:08:02,680 --> 00:08:05,520 Speaker 1: the gig economy was that sort of like growing up 142 00:08:05,520 --> 00:08:08,960 Speaker 1: tails I got lucky. Yeah. I remember the first time 143 00:08:08,960 --> 00:08:11,520 Speaker 1: that I worked as a contract employee, I was like, 144 00:08:11,560 --> 00:08:13,760 Speaker 1: I'm getting so much money, blah blah blah. Then tax 145 00:08:13,840 --> 00:08:17,080 Speaker 1: time came around, and then my story So I've been 146 00:08:17,080 --> 00:08:18,720 Speaker 1: going to the same H and R block here in 147 00:08:18,800 --> 00:08:21,120 Speaker 1: DC for a very long time. I go there, I'm 148 00:08:21,160 --> 00:08:24,360 Speaker 1: like now known as the girl who cried because I 149 00:08:24,360 --> 00:08:26,440 Speaker 1: I brought my paperwork and he was like, okay, you 150 00:08:26,480 --> 00:08:28,440 Speaker 1: owe the I R S like, and he said, I'm 151 00:08:28,520 --> 00:08:30,160 Speaker 1: you know a number that for me? I mean, I 152 00:08:30,280 --> 00:08:32,440 Speaker 1: just was like, he may as well said a million dollars, 153 00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:36,680 Speaker 1: Like it was the amount I owed was so absurd, 154 00:08:37,120 --> 00:08:40,000 Speaker 1: thousands of dollars. And I were thinking, like, but I 155 00:08:40,080 --> 00:08:42,520 Speaker 1: make no money, Like how can that be? And even 156 00:08:42,760 --> 00:08:44,959 Speaker 1: even now, this was like years ago when I went 157 00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:47,079 Speaker 1: to that same H R block to get my taxes 158 00:08:47,120 --> 00:08:48,800 Speaker 1: done and the guy I was like, oh, that's right, 159 00:08:48,840 --> 00:08:50,480 Speaker 1: you were. You were a girl who cried, And was 160 00:08:50,520 --> 00:08:53,599 Speaker 1: like the girl cried. Funny you mentioned it because the 161 00:08:53,720 --> 00:08:55,520 Speaker 1: one year that I was making extra money on the 162 00:08:55,559 --> 00:08:58,199 Speaker 1: side as a contractor, in addition to still having a 163 00:08:58,280 --> 00:09:01,720 Speaker 1: day job, I was out withholding taxes, which is the 164 00:09:01,720 --> 00:09:03,520 Speaker 1: thing you have to do as a contract worker. I 165 00:09:03,559 --> 00:09:07,040 Speaker 1: wasn't paying quarterly taxes. F y I y'all if you're 166 00:09:07,080 --> 00:09:09,800 Speaker 1: a quarterly if you're a if you're getting money on 167 00:09:09,840 --> 00:09:13,560 Speaker 1: the side via as a contractor, Google how to pay 168 00:09:13,640 --> 00:09:17,280 Speaker 1: quarterly taxes right now, get on it. Don't be a 169 00:09:17,360 --> 00:09:21,920 Speaker 1: girl crying. I quit my day job to start bossed 170 00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:23,640 Speaker 1: up the first time I quit my day job. Let 171 00:09:23,640 --> 00:09:25,880 Speaker 1: me put it that way. And I'm like, I'm rolling 172 00:09:25,920 --> 00:09:27,640 Speaker 1: in right now. I've got a sweet nest egg that 173 00:09:27,679 --> 00:09:30,120 Speaker 1: I've worked really hard to put aside. And then a 174 00:09:30,280 --> 00:09:34,640 Speaker 1: month later, I owed Uncle Sam ten grand taxes and 175 00:09:34,679 --> 00:09:38,120 Speaker 1: I was like, I mean, it's my civic duty. I'm not, 176 00:09:39,280 --> 00:09:44,640 Speaker 1: of course, but it's bad. And Brad was new in 177 00:09:44,679 --> 00:09:46,880 Speaker 1: the picture at the time, and I kept telling him, like, 178 00:09:46,920 --> 00:09:49,240 Speaker 1: I've just did my taxes on three different online portals 179 00:09:49,240 --> 00:09:51,080 Speaker 1: and I got the same answer. H and R said 180 00:09:51,080 --> 00:09:52,679 Speaker 1: the same thing. Like. I was like, maybe I'm doing 181 00:09:52,760 --> 00:09:55,440 Speaker 1: this wrong. And then he like I broke it down 182 00:09:55,440 --> 00:09:57,680 Speaker 1: for him and he started laughing. He was like, well, 183 00:09:57,679 --> 00:10:01,600 Speaker 1: of course, and I'm like, he's like laughing at me. 184 00:10:01,800 --> 00:10:04,160 Speaker 1: That was the hardest thing for me to sort of 185 00:10:04,200 --> 00:10:07,160 Speaker 1: like make heads or tails up. Was it like, I'm 186 00:10:07,679 --> 00:10:09,320 Speaker 1: how do I owe this money? I just didn't make 187 00:10:09,320 --> 00:10:14,640 Speaker 1: any sense. So get yourself a financial But I mean, 188 00:10:14,840 --> 00:10:16,559 Speaker 1: so it's part of the way in which when you're 189 00:10:16,600 --> 00:10:18,960 Speaker 1: a contractor or in the gig economy, you're on your own. 190 00:10:19,240 --> 00:10:23,520 Speaker 1: I used to airbnb my apartment here, same management company 191 00:10:23,600 --> 00:10:26,840 Speaker 1: airb and be my place. And I tried Postmates because 192 00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:28,640 Speaker 1: I don't have a car. But you can do postpaides 193 00:10:28,640 --> 00:10:31,080 Speaker 1: from a bike in d C. Which if you're Postmates, 194 00:10:31,120 --> 00:10:33,560 Speaker 1: it's like a delivery service to deliver it. You know, 195 00:10:33,600 --> 00:10:36,360 Speaker 1: if you want, you know, some specific food item, someone 196 00:10:36,360 --> 00:10:39,160 Speaker 1: will bring it to you on a bike. Um. And yeah, 197 00:10:39,280 --> 00:10:42,200 Speaker 1: neither of those worked out to pay taxes on your 198 00:10:42,720 --> 00:10:45,360 Speaker 1: So for Airbnb, I was like, oh god, I forgot, Like, 199 00:10:45,640 --> 00:10:47,280 Speaker 1: oh god, I have to make sure I'm doing this 200 00:10:47,320 --> 00:10:50,760 Speaker 1: at the end of the year, whatever taxes my old foe. 201 00:10:50,880 --> 00:10:53,120 Speaker 1: There are lots of ways in which being a full 202 00:10:53,120 --> 00:10:56,719 Speaker 1: time employee feels kind of simple and wonderful because it's 203 00:10:56,720 --> 00:10:59,520 Speaker 1: just great. You're you're not just on your own right 204 00:10:59,559 --> 00:11:01,640 Speaker 1: as a car in tractor you are. So I think 205 00:11:01,679 --> 00:11:05,079 Speaker 1: the rise of the gig economy feels like a very 206 00:11:05,400 --> 00:11:11,040 Speaker 1: um it's classical classic American individualism on display. Right, it's 207 00:11:11,040 --> 00:11:15,280 Speaker 1: like pull yourself up by your bootstraps. And the question 208 00:11:15,400 --> 00:11:22,160 Speaker 1: becomes is it an opportunity for unlimited earning potential? Right? 209 00:11:22,160 --> 00:11:24,760 Speaker 1: Because it's up to you however much you want to 210 00:11:24,840 --> 00:11:28,640 Speaker 1: drive to lift however, chu, yes, set your own is 211 00:11:28,640 --> 00:11:31,200 Speaker 1: going to do whatever you want? And then or is 212 00:11:31,240 --> 00:11:35,560 Speaker 1: it exploitation because no matter how hard you work, you 213 00:11:35,679 --> 00:11:38,800 Speaker 1: still might not be earning. Um, we might not be 214 00:11:38,920 --> 00:11:42,400 Speaker 1: rolling in it right right. It's like it's this amorphous 215 00:11:42,440 --> 00:11:45,400 Speaker 1: way of saying, well, this is on you and employee, 216 00:11:45,440 --> 00:11:47,920 Speaker 1: This is on you, gig economy worker, to figure it out. 217 00:11:48,320 --> 00:11:50,840 Speaker 1: I'm not going to make these um, I'm not going 218 00:11:50,880 --> 00:11:55,040 Speaker 1: to make there be a stable expectation for what a 219 00:11:55,080 --> 00:11:57,560 Speaker 1: living wage might be for you. And what's fascinating is that. 220 00:11:57,640 --> 00:11:59,640 Speaker 1: And I think we'll talk more about this going forward, 221 00:11:59,679 --> 00:12:03,640 Speaker 1: but how this plays out in the marketing for for 222 00:12:03,880 --> 00:12:06,040 Speaker 1: these these things where it's like, you know, what would 223 00:12:06,120 --> 00:12:09,600 Speaker 1: usually be considered a negative right, like not having labor protections, 224 00:12:09,920 --> 00:12:12,680 Speaker 1: it's spun as like, oh, it's on you to decide 225 00:12:12,800 --> 00:12:14,800 Speaker 1: how much you make instead of like you know, the 226 00:12:14,800 --> 00:12:17,240 Speaker 1: whole boss culture. It's like everybody wants to be their 227 00:12:17,280 --> 00:12:19,920 Speaker 1: own boss, isn't it fun? Yeah? And I think we 228 00:12:19,960 --> 00:12:21,600 Speaker 1: see that and so like we saw that in an 229 00:12:21,600 --> 00:12:25,480 Speaker 1: earlier episode around um women in things like Lubro, where 230 00:12:25,559 --> 00:12:28,120 Speaker 1: there's this idea that we have in this country where 231 00:12:28,240 --> 00:12:30,760 Speaker 1: like hustle is so good, and like being your own 232 00:12:30,760 --> 00:12:32,600 Speaker 1: boss and like having your own thing and setting your 233 00:12:32,600 --> 00:12:34,360 Speaker 1: own hours and not being tied to a nine to 234 00:12:34,520 --> 00:12:37,520 Speaker 1: five in an office. Right that we definitely, you know, want, 235 00:12:37,520 --> 00:12:39,679 Speaker 1: did it become uncool to have a full time job? 236 00:12:39,720 --> 00:12:42,040 Speaker 1: Having a full time job is offome and like, no 237 00:12:42,120 --> 00:12:45,760 Speaker 1: shade to anybody who doesn't like it's not something we 238 00:12:45,760 --> 00:12:48,319 Speaker 1: should be crapping on. And I feel like we are, 239 00:12:48,400 --> 00:12:51,359 Speaker 1: So I think it's a good time to take a break. 240 00:12:51,520 --> 00:12:53,319 Speaker 1: So when we come back, we'll talk through a couple 241 00:12:53,360 --> 00:12:56,960 Speaker 1: of case studies of magical thinking when it comes to 242 00:12:57,000 --> 00:12:59,839 Speaker 1: pr and the gig economy will be right back after this. 243 00:13:08,679 --> 00:13:12,920 Speaker 1: And we're back, and we've got some troubling examples of 244 00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:19,959 Speaker 1: the gig economy glamorizing overwork as being something to aspire to. Yeah, 245 00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:22,480 Speaker 1: I think that for me, that really is that one 246 00:13:22,520 --> 00:13:25,080 Speaker 1: of the main reasons why I'm a little bit uncomfortable 247 00:13:25,160 --> 00:13:29,839 Speaker 1: with this economy work is that we, yeah, we glamorize 248 00:13:29,880 --> 00:13:32,240 Speaker 1: things that we shouldn't be glamorizing. And I think this 249 00:13:32,280 --> 00:13:35,319 Speaker 1: great example was this ad for a company called fiber 250 00:13:35,440 --> 00:13:38,640 Speaker 1: if you don't or a platform called fiber, which basically 251 00:13:38,760 --> 00:13:42,040 Speaker 1: anyone can pay you five dollars to do anything or 252 00:13:42,080 --> 00:13:44,600 Speaker 1: more money. And it's a it's a platform, like you're saying, 253 00:13:44,640 --> 00:13:47,880 Speaker 1: it's like a connecting market place where you can find 254 00:13:47,920 --> 00:13:50,760 Speaker 1: all kinds of talented people and enlist their services and 255 00:13:50,880 --> 00:13:53,480 Speaker 1: across the country. And this ad appeared in a New 256 00:13:53,559 --> 00:13:56,600 Speaker 1: York City subway, which I think is very telling, very 257 00:13:56,600 --> 00:13:59,000 Speaker 1: New York. I think maybe only in New York could 258 00:13:59,000 --> 00:14:01,360 Speaker 1: you test this to see if it was received? Well, 259 00:14:01,640 --> 00:14:06,160 Speaker 1: what is this advocate? Like? The advooks like a beautiful woman? Um, 260 00:14:06,400 --> 00:14:08,600 Speaker 1: it's her close up of her face. I'll say she 261 00:14:08,679 --> 00:14:11,480 Speaker 1: looks a little she's gorgeous, looks a little gaunt, like 262 00:14:11,520 --> 00:14:13,760 Speaker 1: maybe she's been up all night or something like that. 263 00:14:13,800 --> 00:14:16,400 Speaker 1: And maybe she's she's definitely got the high high fashion 264 00:14:16,520 --> 00:14:19,520 Speaker 1: model cheekbuks slash. Maybe she hasn't eaten in seven or 265 00:14:20,040 --> 00:14:21,440 Speaker 1: so that I like that. It's like up to you 266 00:14:21,480 --> 00:14:22,960 Speaker 1: to be like, oh, which one is it? Is she 267 00:14:23,280 --> 00:14:25,800 Speaker 1: a gorgeous model or just and hair is messed up 268 00:14:25,920 --> 00:14:30,440 Speaker 1: on her? She looks like she's been like disheveled, beautiful disheveled. 269 00:14:30,600 --> 00:14:33,360 Speaker 1: And so the tagline is you eat a coffee for lunch, 270 00:14:33,560 --> 00:14:36,600 Speaker 1: you follow through on your follow through, sleep deprivation is 271 00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:40,240 Speaker 1: your drug of choice, you might be a doer And 272 00:14:40,320 --> 00:14:43,200 Speaker 1: I hate so Like again, just like we were talking 273 00:14:43,240 --> 00:14:46,800 Speaker 1: about how it sounds very they they've found a way 274 00:14:46,840 --> 00:14:49,400 Speaker 1: to put something that sounds awful to me to make 275 00:14:49,440 --> 00:14:52,880 Speaker 1: it a badge of honor. Burnout culture, girl, that's my thing. 276 00:14:53,000 --> 00:14:56,840 Speaker 1: And I turned about how the glamorization of burnout culture 277 00:14:57,480 --> 00:15:00,880 Speaker 1: is what's leading to the degradation of the sick a 278 00:15:00,920 --> 00:15:03,720 Speaker 1: basic sense of human rights as workers, right, and we 279 00:15:03,760 --> 00:15:07,880 Speaker 1: shouldn't be glamorizing, you know, not eating that's not like, 280 00:15:07,880 --> 00:15:10,800 Speaker 1: that's not a glamorous thing, or not sleeping, not sleeping, 281 00:15:10,800 --> 00:15:13,480 Speaker 1: we shouldn't be glamorizing. Like having followed through was great, 282 00:15:13,560 --> 00:15:17,280 Speaker 1: but like, wasn't it The university some university came under 283 00:15:17,320 --> 00:15:19,480 Speaker 1: fire for a video ad like this as well. Did 284 00:15:19,520 --> 00:15:22,560 Speaker 1: you see that? It was like these poor like parents 285 00:15:22,560 --> 00:15:24,960 Speaker 1: who are like on the subway trying to missing dinner 286 00:15:25,000 --> 00:15:29,480 Speaker 1: with their family. That's like the subtext of every like 287 00:15:30,080 --> 00:15:33,640 Speaker 1: online college profit. It's like, oh, like sit on the 288 00:15:33,680 --> 00:15:36,200 Speaker 1: subway floor and like do your paper. Like no, like 289 00:15:36,360 --> 00:15:39,200 Speaker 1: you should be normalizing like spending time with your family 290 00:15:39,240 --> 00:15:43,200 Speaker 1: and yeah. Basic. Another thing I hated about this ad 291 00:15:43,200 --> 00:15:45,920 Speaker 1: and something that I see a lot like food and 292 00:15:46,000 --> 00:15:49,160 Speaker 1: sleep are basic human needs, right, Like, if you're not 293 00:15:49,560 --> 00:15:54,040 Speaker 1: getting sleep, you can't be at a functional person. Hierarchy 294 00:15:54,120 --> 00:15:56,960 Speaker 1: of needs is all about, like I geek out and 295 00:15:57,000 --> 00:15:59,560 Speaker 1: things psychology one oh one. If you get the Emily 296 00:15:59,640 --> 00:16:06,720 Speaker 1: face so pleased pushing and pushing invisible glass. Actually, yeah, 297 00:16:06,840 --> 00:16:09,920 Speaker 1: Maslow's higherarchy needs. Although to be clear, I am aware 298 00:16:09,920 --> 00:16:11,840 Speaker 1: of the fact that his theory has come under fire 299 00:16:11,880 --> 00:16:14,920 Speaker 1: in recent years. But little whatever, Like moral of the 300 00:16:14,960 --> 00:16:18,560 Speaker 1: story is you need a foundation of basic human needs, 301 00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:22,400 Speaker 1: things like shelter, safety, food, sleep, you know, rest, comfort, 302 00:16:22,720 --> 00:16:25,080 Speaker 1: and then another layer on top of that to achieve 303 00:16:25,120 --> 00:16:29,120 Speaker 1: a higher order of thinking. My COGSAI professors would be 304 00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:31,560 Speaker 1: so proud of me now, But like, to actually achieve 305 00:16:31,560 --> 00:16:34,680 Speaker 1: your full potential, you need love, connection, belonging, and then 306 00:16:35,240 --> 00:16:37,600 Speaker 1: you can actually work it. So like the idea of 307 00:16:37,640 --> 00:16:41,200 Speaker 1: like martyr yourself, don't by your job, don't sleep. It's 308 00:16:41,240 --> 00:16:45,000 Speaker 1: really pervasive. And they say. The whole campaign was called 309 00:16:45,080 --> 00:16:49,960 Speaker 1: in Doers We Trust and it was about glamorizing the 310 00:16:50,080 --> 00:16:53,320 Speaker 1: sort of burnout that is that is often delivered hand 311 00:16:53,360 --> 00:16:56,000 Speaker 1: in hand with the gig economy often but not always, 312 00:16:56,000 --> 00:16:58,200 Speaker 1: but I think it's important to say often. The other 313 00:16:58,240 --> 00:17:03,640 Speaker 1: thing that really bothers me about the women in the 314 00:17:03,720 --> 00:17:08,240 Speaker 1: gig economy is that these sharing economy jobs are increasingly 315 00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:13,639 Speaker 1: being presented as a work life balance solution, particularly to 316 00:17:13,760 --> 00:17:18,440 Speaker 1: women and particularly to moms, who can supposedly achieve that 317 00:17:18,520 --> 00:17:21,439 Speaker 1: sort of what l magazine calls the holy grail of 318 00:17:21,800 --> 00:17:26,280 Speaker 1: true work life balance by punctuating childcare or domestic labor 319 00:17:26,520 --> 00:17:30,080 Speaker 1: with the more flexible work offered by sharing services and apps. 320 00:17:30,119 --> 00:17:33,480 Speaker 1: And again, it's that's so that doubtails so nicely with 321 00:17:33,520 --> 00:17:37,440 Speaker 1: this idea that like everybody wants this dream scenario where 322 00:17:37,440 --> 00:17:39,040 Speaker 1: they can take care of their kids, that can be 323 00:17:39,080 --> 00:17:41,199 Speaker 1: at home, it can make money. Like really, what it 324 00:17:41,200 --> 00:17:43,240 Speaker 1: comes down to is that I think that why we 325 00:17:43,240 --> 00:17:45,040 Speaker 1: we prized that so much is that we just need 326 00:17:45,080 --> 00:17:47,920 Speaker 1: to live in a society that like allows for people 327 00:17:47,960 --> 00:17:53,320 Speaker 1: to you knows. Isn't it funny how so many of 328 00:17:53,320 --> 00:17:55,760 Speaker 1: our episodes are coming back to that same solution, Like 329 00:17:55,880 --> 00:18:00,280 Speaker 1: that's why pyramid schemes are having a renaissance or MLM, sorry, lady, 330 00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:05,320 Speaker 1: that's why sharing economy is taking off. Like we're all 331 00:18:05,359 --> 00:18:07,879 Speaker 1: in this quest for work life balance, and I get it. 332 00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:10,480 Speaker 1: I'm an entrepreneur. I'm in it for the same reasons. 333 00:18:10,480 --> 00:18:13,760 Speaker 1: And it doesn't always look very pretty um and it 334 00:18:13,840 --> 00:18:15,880 Speaker 1: doesn't you know, you're you're gonna have days like that, 335 00:18:15,960 --> 00:18:20,800 Speaker 1: but we shouldn't aspire to being overwhelmed and busy. And yeah, 336 00:18:20,840 --> 00:18:22,000 Speaker 1: I mean I had a I had a moment of 337 00:18:22,040 --> 00:18:25,919 Speaker 1: that pretty recently where I had been um in Australia 338 00:18:26,040 --> 00:18:28,280 Speaker 1: for a long time and I had to fly back 339 00:18:28,320 --> 00:18:30,439 Speaker 1: to the United States and then like have like a 340 00:18:30,560 --> 00:18:33,359 Speaker 1: day and then go to a big festival to speak. 341 00:18:33,560 --> 00:18:37,120 Speaker 1: Please go ahead and name it. I mean name Bridget 342 00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:41,159 Speaker 1: flew back internationally from Australia to speak on a handle 343 00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:45,040 Speaker 1: at south By Southwest, which has been like a dream 344 00:18:45,040 --> 00:18:46,479 Speaker 1: of mine, and I was like, there's no way I'm 345 00:18:46,520 --> 00:18:51,199 Speaker 1: not doing it. I'm in good company, felt amazing. I 346 00:18:51,200 --> 00:18:53,320 Speaker 1: didn't have company with folks like Emily and C and C. 347 00:18:54,920 --> 00:18:57,679 Speaker 1: But it happened to fall on my birthday and so 348 00:18:57,720 --> 00:19:00,200 Speaker 1: I remember when I was getting out my travel off 349 00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:02,680 Speaker 1: to like get my flight, the t S a agent 350 00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:05,920 Speaker 1: or whoever took my ticket was like, oh, happy birthday, 351 00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:07,959 Speaker 1: and I was like, happy birthday. What? And then I 352 00:19:08,040 --> 00:19:10,760 Speaker 1: was like, oh wait, no, where is my word? My birthday? 353 00:19:10,760 --> 00:19:14,720 Speaker 1: And I had been so like even, and so I thought, like, 354 00:19:15,119 --> 00:19:17,159 Speaker 1: g On the one hand, if I told that story, 355 00:19:17,560 --> 00:19:19,600 Speaker 1: you could frame it as like, oh my god, like 356 00:19:19,640 --> 00:19:23,040 Speaker 1: what a huffler like, go you work ethic, But actually 357 00:19:23,080 --> 00:19:25,159 Speaker 1: it was like really sad. It was sad to me 358 00:19:25,240 --> 00:19:29,800 Speaker 1: that like my birthday was spent, you know, really like 359 00:19:29,880 --> 00:19:32,719 Speaker 1: realizing it like that. On the one hand, and so 360 00:19:32,760 --> 00:19:36,120 Speaker 1: I think it's interesting how these um, how these companies 361 00:19:36,119 --> 00:19:38,159 Speaker 1: have found a way to sort of play on that 362 00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:40,720 Speaker 1: duality of like is it, you know, is the gig 363 00:19:40,720 --> 00:19:44,080 Speaker 1: economy this free, this free thing for women and blah 364 00:19:44,119 --> 00:19:47,119 Speaker 1: blah blah, or is it like not so glamorous? I know. 365 00:19:47,560 --> 00:19:50,159 Speaker 1: It's like, even if you do agree that burnout culture 366 00:19:50,240 --> 00:19:54,840 Speaker 1: isn't glamorous, the question still becomes You've got unlimited earning 367 00:19:54,920 --> 00:19:58,919 Speaker 1: potential in a sharing economy, so it's up to you. 368 00:19:59,160 --> 00:20:02,240 Speaker 1: Is that kind of free market capitalism on steroids good 369 00:20:02,680 --> 00:20:05,239 Speaker 1: I mean? Or is it? So? I remember one of 370 00:20:05,280 --> 00:20:08,879 Speaker 1: my mentors in the entrepreneurship space was giving me some 371 00:20:08,920 --> 00:20:11,440 Speaker 1: real talk when I was calling or saying, I've been 372 00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:14,560 Speaker 1: doing this for a year and I'm really not making money, 373 00:20:14,600 --> 00:20:17,080 Speaker 1: like I've been doing bust up on the side while 374 00:20:17,080 --> 00:20:19,120 Speaker 1: I was working full time for the first year or two. 375 00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:22,520 Speaker 1: And I remember just saying, like, at what point should 376 00:20:22,560 --> 00:20:24,119 Speaker 1: I give up on this? Like at what point should 377 00:20:24,119 --> 00:20:28,240 Speaker 1: I pivot or admit failure defeat? And she she sort 378 00:20:28,240 --> 00:20:30,240 Speaker 1: of sat me down and said, listen, just because you 379 00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:35,040 Speaker 1: have unlimited earning potential doesn't mean you have unlimited earnings. 380 00:20:36,040 --> 00:20:39,320 Speaker 1: And so I think that that's opportunity is not the 381 00:20:39,440 --> 00:20:45,040 Speaker 1: same as um stability. And no matter how much of 382 00:20:45,040 --> 00:20:49,720 Speaker 1: a capitalist you are, like I am, okay, I'm all 383 00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:51,720 Speaker 1: about it. I'm I'm all about it, and I'm a 384 00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:53,879 Speaker 1: progressive capitalist. I think we should come up with a 385 00:20:53,880 --> 00:20:57,760 Speaker 1: metal capital. Yeah, I mean, I do my best, right, 386 00:20:58,480 --> 00:21:02,560 Speaker 1: but but it can be ugly. And also there's a 387 00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:06,240 Speaker 1: difference between the sharing economy worker, the gig economy worker 388 00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:09,639 Speaker 1: like us who we might have been earning bigger checks 389 00:21:09,880 --> 00:21:12,840 Speaker 1: from our day jobs and air ben being for frenzies, 390 00:21:13,280 --> 00:21:16,280 Speaker 1: and the people who are doing gig economy work full time. 391 00:21:16,680 --> 00:21:19,640 Speaker 1: And I want to tell a quick story that went 392 00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:24,160 Speaker 1: very viral um from Lift, the ride share app Lift, 393 00:21:24,240 --> 00:21:27,679 Speaker 1: which I know on former episodes we've talked about how 394 00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:30,120 Speaker 1: much we love Lift as opposed to Uber, because Uber 395 00:21:30,160 --> 00:21:33,040 Speaker 1: is pretty much as evil. I actually remember saying like Lift, 396 00:21:33,119 --> 00:21:36,760 Speaker 1: call us, call us Yeah, sorry, we're going to take 397 00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:39,879 Speaker 1: that back. Um. But here's the thing of the lesser 398 00:21:39,920 --> 00:21:42,960 Speaker 1: of two evil situation, Like, maybe there's a third y'all. 399 00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:44,840 Speaker 1: If you have another ride trap we should be using, 400 00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:47,240 Speaker 1: let us know. But here's what we've got. We've got 401 00:21:47,280 --> 00:21:50,760 Speaker 1: this really messed up story um of from last July 402 00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:56,520 Speaker 1: that chronicled the details of a ride share driver named Mary. Um. 403 00:21:56,520 --> 00:21:59,600 Speaker 1: Mary's the Chicago driver who who I'm quoting here happened 404 00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:02,520 Speaker 1: to me no. One months pregnant when she began experiencing 405 00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:06,879 Speaker 1: contractions while on her nightly route. Eventually, when it became 406 00:22:06,920 --> 00:22:09,560 Speaker 1: clear that she was in labor, Mary decided to drive 407 00:22:09,560 --> 00:22:13,399 Speaker 1: herself to the hospital. Now here's the double speak that 408 00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:16,800 Speaker 1: came out of lifts pr shop. Okay, somebody I hope 409 00:22:16,840 --> 00:22:21,439 Speaker 1: got canned over this. Um. Since she didn't believe she 410 00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:24,440 Speaker 1: was going into labor yet, she stayed in driver mode 411 00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:28,520 Speaker 1: and sure enough, ping she received a ride request en 412 00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:32,639 Speaker 1: route to the hospital. She took the customer and Lift 413 00:22:32,760 --> 00:22:35,879 Speaker 1: posted this story proudly as an example of mary Stellar 414 00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:39,879 Speaker 1: work ethic rather than you know, evidence that perhaps she 415 00:22:39,960 --> 00:22:42,480 Speaker 1: had to keep working while she should have been going 416 00:22:42,520 --> 00:22:44,640 Speaker 1: to the hospital, right. And I what I hate so 417 00:22:44,720 --> 00:22:47,160 Speaker 1: much about the way that Lift framed this is that 418 00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:49,879 Speaker 1: they framed this as like she had this choice, like 419 00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:52,280 Speaker 1: she could go to the hospital or keep working. And 420 00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:54,720 Speaker 1: it's like, if those are your choices, I bet it's 421 00:22:54,760 --> 00:22:57,879 Speaker 1: not actually the kind of choice they are suggesting. It 422 00:22:57,920 --> 00:23:00,520 Speaker 1: is like, I bet that you are you, Like you 423 00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:03,760 Speaker 1: don't actually have a choice that you need to, like 424 00:23:04,119 --> 00:23:07,440 Speaker 1: you need to keep working for financial reasons, and that's 425 00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:10,280 Speaker 1: not that's not a choice we should be celebrating, like, oh, 426 00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:13,000 Speaker 1: isn't it great? Like she continued to drive even though 427 00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:16,880 Speaker 1: she was in labor ultimate multitasker and some people want 428 00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:19,440 Speaker 1: to celebrate that. And then there are lots of examples 429 00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:21,720 Speaker 1: of like should we applaud this or should we gasp 430 00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:23,679 Speaker 1: at this? Here's the thing, we don't actually know what 431 00:23:23,760 --> 00:23:25,879 Speaker 1: Mary was thinking at the same because we haven't she 432 00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:28,159 Speaker 1: hasn't gone on the record, um at least from what 433 00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:32,399 Speaker 1: I've seen. But there's other there's other examples. Yeah, there 434 00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:35,080 Speaker 1: was a really great example, um locally here in d C, 435 00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:37,359 Speaker 1: where there was I love to ride bikes and so 436 00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:39,800 Speaker 1: I'm a member of like half a dozen cyclist groups. 437 00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:42,120 Speaker 1: And there was an image day of a woman here 438 00:23:42,119 --> 00:23:44,720 Speaker 1: in d C and you street riding a bike share 439 00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:47,560 Speaker 1: bike while you know, dressed for work, wearing high heels 440 00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:50,600 Speaker 1: and carrying her dry cleaning and like a briefcase and 441 00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:52,159 Speaker 1: like a grocery bag or something, and there was a 442 00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:54,040 Speaker 1: lot She's got a lot going on. And the caption 443 00:23:54,119 --> 00:23:56,760 Speaker 1: was like, oh what a hustler like you know, doesn't 444 00:23:56,800 --> 00:24:00,320 Speaker 1: people were like applauding herself. That photo went viral. This 445 00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:03,639 Speaker 1: is the epitome of epitome, epitome. This is the epitome. 446 00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:05,880 Speaker 1: You never let anyone pronounca like that. Wait, I think 447 00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:07,960 Speaker 1: I've heard something. I think that might be a different word. 448 00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:11,320 Speaker 1: Oh jeez, I'm sure we'll get emails about that. One 449 00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:17,000 Speaker 1: email her and at me a person that is it's epitome. Okay, 450 00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:20,480 Speaker 1: oh god, okay. But she's they said, like Twitter went 451 00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:23,920 Speaker 1: people were like, oh my god, she's such a a hustler, 452 00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:25,879 Speaker 1: Like that's when you get things done. And then what 453 00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:27,919 Speaker 1: I loved was that this woman happened to be like 454 00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:30,640 Speaker 1: a writer or an editor for the Washington Post and 455 00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:33,239 Speaker 1: she wrote down and she basically was like, I'm not 456 00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:37,080 Speaker 1: comfortable being the poster child of overwork and burnout. Yeah, 457 00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:38,960 Speaker 1: that day, I did have a million things going on, 458 00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:41,399 Speaker 1: and like it actually wasn't super safe to be writing 459 00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:45,040 Speaker 1: down a busy street holding my groceries helmets no helmet, 460 00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:47,320 Speaker 1: which I'm sure she heard a lot about that. You 461 00:24:47,359 --> 00:24:53,760 Speaker 1: know what about cycling that is a but yeah, like 462 00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:56,879 Speaker 1: she said, like, it wasn't What I was doing was 463 00:24:56,880 --> 00:24:58,480 Speaker 1: not a safe choice. And I do not want to 464 00:24:58,520 --> 00:25:00,800 Speaker 1: be the face that it's advocating we're making those kinds 465 00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:03,480 Speaker 1: of choices were not safe or healthy. And so I 466 00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:05,639 Speaker 1: just loved that. I love that too, And speaking of 467 00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:07,960 Speaker 1: safe or healthy and the fact that this might not 468 00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:11,439 Speaker 1: be a free choice, this is a constrained choice when 469 00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:15,240 Speaker 1: it comes to like barely making minimum wage after eleven 470 00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:19,959 Speaker 1: hours a day in your car driving people around the city. Um, 471 00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:22,920 Speaker 1: the other layer on top of this for women, which 472 00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:25,560 Speaker 1: L Magazine did a really great job sort of breaking 473 00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:29,440 Speaker 1: down how women are not necessarily coming out on top 474 00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:32,240 Speaker 1: in the gig economy as that as all the wages 475 00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:35,520 Speaker 1: and that stuff is, it's worse for women who are 476 00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:40,000 Speaker 1: subject to more directly violent forms of workplace discrimination. So 477 00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:44,120 Speaker 1: talking about like safety, several women who work for rideshare 478 00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:47,440 Speaker 1: services have reported sexual assault or harassment from their clients. 479 00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:52,560 Speaker 1: This woman in Atlanta was told um was she brought 480 00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:55,600 Speaker 1: a man to the strip club. Way to go? First 481 00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:57,879 Speaker 1: of all, like you way to take a ride share 482 00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:02,240 Speaker 1: card to the strip club's like have questions? So then 483 00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:04,760 Speaker 1: he asks her if she wants to make some extra 484 00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:08,000 Speaker 1: money by coming into the strip club, and it escalated 485 00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:10,960 Speaker 1: to like grabbing her breasts and face trying to force 486 00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:15,359 Speaker 1: her to kiss him. You like, yeah, I mean like 487 00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:18,160 Speaker 1: in most like in most situations in our society, women 488 00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:20,719 Speaker 1: are already more marginalized. And like, you know, it's like 489 00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:23,159 Speaker 1: if we if we if the idea of this like 490 00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:26,880 Speaker 1: new you know, new work economy, new gig economy, means 491 00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:30,359 Speaker 1: that protections are taken away. It's women who are already marginalized. 492 00:26:30,359 --> 00:26:34,080 Speaker 1: We're going to be more disenfranchised by that than than 493 00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:39,040 Speaker 1: we already are. And to the deregulating Republican party, who's 494 00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:42,560 Speaker 1: all about government and regulations getting out of the way 495 00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:45,800 Speaker 1: so that people can have direct exchange of goods and services, 496 00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:49,679 Speaker 1: this is like, uh, libertarians, wet dream. I'm sorry to 497 00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:52,639 Speaker 1: like go there, but it totally is. I can just 498 00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:59,680 Speaker 1: see the capitalism like boners that people over the hashtag 499 00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:03,879 Speaker 1: capism bonus because it's true, like this is direct like 500 00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:06,360 Speaker 1: getting out of the way so that individuals can make 501 00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:11,399 Speaker 1: quote unquote choices to exchange goods and services. The less protections, 502 00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:13,959 Speaker 1: the less red tape, the better, says you know, a 503 00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:17,560 Speaker 1: total libertarian. But what they forget and fail to factor 504 00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:21,080 Speaker 1: in is that people who are more likely to be 505 00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:25,720 Speaker 1: harassed or assaulted are the ones that lose in this situation. 506 00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:29,960 Speaker 1: So women are becoming the majority of economy workers, and 507 00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:33,440 Speaker 1: women larger people across the spectrum are more and more 508 00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:36,280 Speaker 1: turning to get economy work as a full time solution. 509 00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:39,760 Speaker 1: Is this really safe? And I think you even see 510 00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:42,959 Speaker 1: that in you know, traditional work. It's like where I 511 00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:45,960 Speaker 1: think that work where women are becoming more and more, 512 00:27:46,119 --> 00:27:47,680 Speaker 1: you know, the people who do that kind of work 513 00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:49,760 Speaker 1: more and more, those are the kinds of jobs where 514 00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:52,000 Speaker 1: we just expect that they're they're going to get screwed. 515 00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:54,480 Speaker 1: I look at like being a server in a restaurant, 516 00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:56,560 Speaker 1: Like women are more likely to be servers and restaurants, 517 00:27:56,560 --> 00:27:59,639 Speaker 1: and they are the ones who are harassed on the 518 00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:03,520 Speaker 1: job more and we, you know, are are Our system 519 00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:07,920 Speaker 1: of compensating them is totally right. It's like insane how 520 00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:11,720 Speaker 1: America has decided that minimum wage doesn't apply to service exactly. 521 00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:14,199 Speaker 1: And so I think it really gig economy or not. 522 00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:17,720 Speaker 1: It really comes down to when women enter these these 523 00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:21,320 Speaker 1: work raiments where there are is a lack of protections, 524 00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:23,720 Speaker 1: a lack of regulations. It's women who are the ones 525 00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:26,240 Speaker 1: who are more likely to be abused or have that 526 00:28:26,280 --> 00:28:28,960 Speaker 1: system exploit them. Right, all right, when we come back 527 00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:31,600 Speaker 1: from a break, we're going to talk about whether this 528 00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:34,400 Speaker 1: is just about growing pains as we enter this new 529 00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:39,000 Speaker 1: era of work, or if this is exploitation what we 530 00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:41,360 Speaker 1: can do about it. Will be right back in just 531 00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:52,480 Speaker 1: a second. So bridget okay. I know we like to 532 00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:55,680 Speaker 1: get a little riled up, we get feisty, and we 533 00:28:56,080 --> 00:28:58,040 Speaker 1: can talk about how the world is going to hell 534 00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:01,000 Speaker 1: in a handbasket on occasion, and I wouldn't say that 535 00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:05,600 Speaker 1: we're wrong all the time. However, I've got good news. 536 00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:08,080 Speaker 1: It's not all bad news. It's concerning how often we 537 00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:12,760 Speaker 1: say that though. Um. The good news here is I 538 00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:15,320 Speaker 1: think we are I really do think we are at 539 00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:19,080 Speaker 1: this historical sort of choice moment when it comes to 540 00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:22,880 Speaker 1: how Americans make a living and with the I mean, 541 00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:26,240 Speaker 1: if you look at mass automation and what the death 542 00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:29,200 Speaker 1: of the trucking industry is going to do. It also 543 00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:32,480 Speaker 1: actually gives me hope that the more that we're all 544 00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:34,840 Speaker 1: in this together and we realize this is not a 545 00:29:34,840 --> 00:29:37,840 Speaker 1: women's issue, this is this is a everybody should be 546 00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:39,520 Speaker 1: able to make a living and be in the middle 547 00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:42,160 Speaker 1: the very shrinking middle class that is here in America. 548 00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:45,440 Speaker 1: I think it requires leadership that's willing to look at 549 00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:48,800 Speaker 1: the big picture and not put certain Americans against other 550 00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:53,040 Speaker 1: Americans in this very competitive marketplace. And the good news 551 00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:59,680 Speaker 1: is that I think employers are becoming more aware of 552 00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:05,120 Speaker 1: the importance of employee engagement and retention, right because I mean, 553 00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:07,360 Speaker 1: if you are and if you have an organization or 554 00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:10,960 Speaker 1: a company and your employees don't care about you at all, 555 00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:12,880 Speaker 1: that you're just a you know, an act to them, 556 00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:15,360 Speaker 1: or that you might have any kind of loyalty to you, right, 557 00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:18,320 Speaker 1: that's not good for you. I mean right, and think 558 00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:20,720 Speaker 1: about how much is lost in terms of like, um, 559 00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:23,400 Speaker 1: you know, historical knowledge and an organization if people are 560 00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:25,200 Speaker 1: just like we're not loyal to each other and like 561 00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:27,280 Speaker 1: a piece out of any time and not think two 562 00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:29,120 Speaker 1: things about it. I've been asked to be the token 563 00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:32,240 Speaker 1: millennial and more than one stage to talk about employee loyalty. 564 00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:34,680 Speaker 1: And my question is what's in it for me? Like 565 00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:37,760 Speaker 1: what's in it for me the millennial? If you're not 566 00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:40,320 Speaker 1: going to treat me like a worker who actually is 567 00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:43,360 Speaker 1: deserving of WO it takes this two way social contract. 568 00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:48,520 Speaker 1: But according to UM this survey for that Time actually 569 00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:51,360 Speaker 1: time to to survey on the future of work. That's fascinating. 570 00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:56,320 Speaker 1: They found that of companies that use independent contractors say 571 00:30:56,360 --> 00:30:58,760 Speaker 1: that they do so because they can quickly adjust the 572 00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:02,160 Speaker 1: size that their work force, save money on benefits, and 573 00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:06,440 Speaker 1: tailor the worker to a specific task. But more than 574 00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:09,800 Speaker 1: half of the firm's polled said that contingent workers are 575 00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:13,840 Speaker 1: not as invested or loyal as employees and that they're 576 00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:16,520 Speaker 1: not always around when needed near we half say that 577 00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:20,840 Speaker 1: they're hard to retain. So seventy percent of employers, according 578 00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:24,680 Speaker 1: to the TIME survey, says that the social contract or quote, 579 00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:29,200 Speaker 1: whereby health, retirement and other benefits are generally tied to 580 00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:35,760 Speaker 1: traditional full time W two based employment end quote, should 581 00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:39,320 Speaker 1: be reformed as more people move to making a living 582 00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:42,680 Speaker 1: through alternative arrangements, and that's really the future that we're 583 00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:44,600 Speaker 1: really talking about it, right, and things like like the 584 00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:46,920 Speaker 1: idea that your health insurance and health care should be 585 00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:49,120 Speaker 1: tied to your employment at all, or should be tied 586 00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:51,280 Speaker 1: to your job at all. Right, Like, if we're moving 587 00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:54,920 Speaker 1: to a place where more people are going to be 588 00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:59,000 Speaker 1: in situations where they are moving towards alternative employment situations, 589 00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:01,360 Speaker 1: then doesn't it make sense to have all the other 590 00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:04,240 Speaker 1: things that we need in life, you know, benefits, all 591 00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:08,280 Speaker 1: of that sort of move along with a social contract 592 00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:11,080 Speaker 1: or like a social safety net. I should say, that's 593 00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:15,000 Speaker 1: government run and that's where everyone loses their minds. Everyone 594 00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:16,960 Speaker 1: loses their minds when we talk about that, and it's 595 00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:21,520 Speaker 1: like government takeover. But it's healthcare. I mean, like that's why. 596 00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:23,760 Speaker 1: And it's like if yeah, if we're going to say 597 00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:25,360 Speaker 1: like this is just the future of work and that 598 00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:27,239 Speaker 1: this is where things are headed and the folks who 599 00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:29,960 Speaker 1: are you know, these doers as five or would say, 600 00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:31,520 Speaker 1: are just ahead of the game, then we need to 601 00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:33,680 Speaker 1: nature those folks are still taken care of and are 602 00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:36,680 Speaker 1: not you know, are not. But why bridget I have 603 00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:39,440 Speaker 1: a w two. Why should I care about you know, 604 00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:43,440 Speaker 1: about Mary the contractor, because our society is better when 605 00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:45,600 Speaker 1: Mary is not having to make a really tough choice 606 00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:47,719 Speaker 1: about whether to go to the hospital or pick up 607 00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:51,200 Speaker 1: that seven you know lived fair right. And I think 608 00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:54,160 Speaker 1: the the other thing that I think President Obama on 609 00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:56,360 Speaker 1: the stump during Healthcare Day is made very clear is 610 00:32:56,360 --> 00:32:59,040 Speaker 1: that when people use the emergency room for their health 611 00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:03,160 Speaker 1: like for their merry care, primary healthcare, that drives up 612 00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:07,719 Speaker 1: costs for somebody. So we want workers, especially you baby 613 00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:11,520 Speaker 1: boomers who are going to retire, and the whole Medicare 614 00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:14,640 Speaker 1: and Medicaid or not Medicaid, but Medicare and like retirement 615 00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:18,920 Speaker 1: funding is nightmarishly messed up right now. Like we want 616 00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:21,400 Speaker 1: to make sure everybody is taken care of because mass 617 00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:26,400 Speaker 1: poverty and mass homelessness and mass you know, bad health 618 00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:30,120 Speaker 1: from the masses is really destabilizing and quite dangerous for 619 00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:32,720 Speaker 1: our society period totally. And I think, you know, if 620 00:33:32,760 --> 00:33:34,720 Speaker 1: if they're if there are things that can be done 621 00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:38,440 Speaker 1: to prevent this, If these things are avoidable, we should 622 00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:41,000 Speaker 1: try to avoid them. I think who was it, It's 623 00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:46,880 Speaker 1: Um the head of the set of for American Progress, 624 00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:51,920 Speaker 1: A tandem. Yes, James, there a tangent says you shouldn't 625 00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:55,719 Speaker 1: have to win the boss lottery to get benefits like 626 00:33:55,800 --> 00:33:59,360 Speaker 1: basic benefits. And we find so compelling because sure you 627 00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:02,800 Speaker 1: could it yourself to w to employment. But if we want, 628 00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:08,760 Speaker 1: if we're capitalistic, you know, country market, free market enterprise, folks, 629 00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:11,879 Speaker 1: should I think see the value in if we really 630 00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:15,759 Speaker 1: want unlike, if we want choice for the marketplace, if 631 00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:18,600 Speaker 1: we want you to be feeling free to take a 632 00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:22,160 Speaker 1: job as a contractor or as a full time employee, 633 00:34:22,160 --> 00:34:25,279 Speaker 1: because that's that mobility across the employment spectrum is good 634 00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:28,440 Speaker 1: for choice and good for the marketplace, then we shouldn't 635 00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:34,319 Speaker 1: tie your benefits to a specific high delivering boss. Right, 636 00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:37,080 Speaker 1: it shouldn't be based on your boss. Is decision around 637 00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:43,040 Speaker 1: parental leave, your boss is feelings around healthcare exactly, then 638 00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:46,120 Speaker 1: we need That's where the government comes in, right, But 639 00:34:46,160 --> 00:34:49,440 Speaker 1: the question always becomes how much regulation is good and 640 00:34:49,600 --> 00:34:53,520 Speaker 1: necessary for maintaining free market and how much we forget that. 641 00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:57,440 Speaker 1: Sometimes regulation is what keeps our markets free and prevents 642 00:34:57,520 --> 00:35:00,320 Speaker 1: monopolies and things like that. But we've we've been there before. 643 00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:02,680 Speaker 1: It was called the Great Depression. I don't think we 644 00:35:02,719 --> 00:35:04,640 Speaker 1: have to go back there. I would figure this out. 645 00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:08,560 Speaker 1: I would strongly encourage not figuring it out that way. 646 00:35:08,719 --> 00:35:12,160 Speaker 1: So it does feel like this is the future of work, 647 00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:15,279 Speaker 1: but I believe it cannot be the solution to work 648 00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:17,880 Speaker 1: life balance, and I don't think it should be sold, 649 00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:21,640 Speaker 1: particularly to women, as the solution to like these sort 650 00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:24,840 Speaker 1: of traps that we can't escape of things like you 651 00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:27,080 Speaker 1: know how we care for our children and working, you know, 652 00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:30,000 Speaker 1: we we can't hustle our way out of that. Right. 653 00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:32,840 Speaker 1: If there's not enough life hecks in the world to 654 00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:35,120 Speaker 1: figure out how to make enough money in some of 655 00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:38,160 Speaker 1: these gig economy jobs, totally not you. It's a systemic problem. 656 00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:41,239 Speaker 1: So sminty listeners, we want to hear from you. How 657 00:35:41,239 --> 00:35:43,759 Speaker 1: are you making this gig economy work for you? Are 658 00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:45,880 Speaker 1: you doing it full time? Are you doing it a 659 00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:47,879 Speaker 1: little here, a little there, like E and I were. 660 00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:50,040 Speaker 1: Either way, we want to hear from you. You can 661 00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:53,120 Speaker 1: get at us on Twitter at mom Stuff podcast, hit 662 00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:55,920 Speaker 1: us up old fashioned email style at mom stuff at 663 00:35:55,960 --> 00:35:58,520 Speaker 1: how stuff works dot com, or tag us in a 664 00:35:58,600 --> 00:36:12,439 Speaker 1: pick on a gram mom Never told You on Instagram. 665 00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:12,000 Speaker 1: M