WEBVTT - Ep. 80: Secret Agent Man - Operation Redbud (Part 2) 0:00:05.160 --> 0:00:09.080 They were taken by total surprise, and at that particular time, 0:00:09.119 --> 0:00:12.119 it was the largest turkey poaching ring in the country. 0:00:12.840 --> 0:00:16.880 On this second episode in our Secret Agent Man series, 0:00:16.960 --> 0:00:19.640 we're going deep into the trenches of the dark Side 0:00:20.000 --> 0:00:24.479 with undercover Ohio wildlife agent Artie Stewart to get the 0:00:24.480 --> 0:00:28.560 full story on Operation Redbud, which at the time was 0:00:28.600 --> 0:00:32.920 the largest turkey poaching sting in US history. RT is 0:00:32.960 --> 0:00:36.400 gonna cruise us around in the poach coach while video 0:00:36.520 --> 0:00:40.320 and over one hundred illegal turkey kills. How would you 0:00:40.360 --> 0:00:43.440 like to see that on a VHS tape. He'll talk 0:00:43.479 --> 0:00:46.720 about the incredible al hooting of his number one target 0:00:47.120 --> 0:00:50.520 and take us right into the courtroom where defense lawyers 0:00:50.600 --> 0:00:57.200 tried to discredit his character with accusations regarding drugs and alcohol. Well, 0:00:57.240 --> 0:01:02.120 here from Darth Vader, Bill Clinton, and get the details 0:01:02.200 --> 0:01:06.080 of the coordinated bust involving twenty six men and over 0:01:06.160 --> 0:01:11.280 two hundred and seventy five wildlife violations in Morgan County, Ohio. 0:01:12.040 --> 0:01:16.440 If you skip this story, you're just playing Yeller. I 0:01:16.680 --> 0:01:20.560 really doubt you're gonna wanna miss this one. He was 0:01:20.680 --> 0:01:23.959 laying on her back, leaning up against that tree. Pieces 0:01:25.080 --> 0:01:27.600 you one of my best friends of their rare and 0:01:27.680 --> 0:01:30.520 I'm going and I knew it was getting close to 0:01:30.520 --> 0:01:42.280 the cop to the end, you know, and I'm thinking, Oh, 0:01:42.920 --> 0:01:45.600 my name is Clay Nukelem. And this is the Bear 0:01:45.640 --> 0:01:50.600 Grease Podcast, where we'll explore things forgotten but relevant, search 0:01:50.720 --> 0:01:54.280 for insight and unlikely places, and where we'll tell the 0:01:54.400 --> 0:01:58.520 story of Americans who lived their lives close to the land. 0:01:59.200 --> 0:02:04.760 Presented by f HF Gear, American made purpose built hunting 0:02:04.800 --> 0:02:08.320 and fishing gear as designed to be as rugged as 0:02:08.360 --> 0:02:18.480 the places we explore. It was in the early nineteen 0:02:18.600 --> 0:02:22.120 nineties and the wild turkey hunting revolution of America was 0:02:22.160 --> 0:02:26.440 in full tilt. As bird numbers skyrocketed, with one hundred 0:02:26.560 --> 0:02:31.600 year peak population numbers across the country, Game call companies 0:02:31.600 --> 0:02:34.320 seemed to be rising up out of the ground. Every 0:02:34.320 --> 0:02:38.320 home had a VCR, and like never before, you could 0:02:38.360 --> 0:02:42.520 rent in twenty four hour segments turkey hunting videos that 0:02:42.600 --> 0:02:49.320 showed unprecedented excitement. America was hooked on turkey hunting, and 0:02:49.400 --> 0:02:52.920 as the cultural value of the turkey went up, it 0:02:53.120 --> 0:02:58.360 caused a quake, a philosophical rift, a division in rural 0:02:58.400 --> 0:03:03.240 communities across the country, splitting fathers and sons, putting neighbors 0:03:03.280 --> 0:03:07.480 against neighbors. It caught good men and bad men alike, 0:03:08.320 --> 0:03:12.639 and many turned to the dark side, which is always 0:03:12.800 --> 0:03:21.040 looking for recruits. Many became turkey hunting outlaws. It is 0:03:21.160 --> 0:03:26.840 useless with all combined strength we can bring order to 0:03:26.919 --> 0:03:35.120 the galaxy. These outlaws began to cheat the system, hunting 0:03:35.160 --> 0:03:40.240 before season, trespassing, killing exorbitant numbers of turkeys. They weren't 0:03:40.320 --> 0:03:45.000 just cheating others, they were cheating themselves, causing a disturbance 0:03:45.080 --> 0:03:51.040 in the wildlife galaxy. There are varying degrees of lawbreakers, 0:03:51.360 --> 0:03:55.600 and law enforcement is dedicated to stopping all levels. Our 0:03:55.640 --> 0:03:59.600 beloved North American model of wildlife conservation only works if 0:03:59.600 --> 0:04:03.680 we a the law. In Morgan County in southeast Ohio, 0:04:04.240 --> 0:04:08.640 numerous informants had reported to the Ohio DNR about a 0:04:08.760 --> 0:04:14.320 gang of turkey slaying ruffians who touted killing unbelievable numbers 0:04:14.320 --> 0:04:17.520 of turkeys. They didn't know if the numbers were true, 0:04:17.880 --> 0:04:21.120 but if they were, they had to be stopped. There 0:04:21.200 --> 0:04:23.880 was only one thing left to do, and I'll give 0:04:23.880 --> 0:04:29.400 you one guess who they sent into the ring of fire. RT. Stewart, 0:04:29.960 --> 0:04:34.440 also known as Bob Thomas, the number one suspect in 0:04:34.480 --> 0:04:37.239 the case, was believed to be killing over fifty turkeys 0:04:37.279 --> 0:04:40.279 each spring, and the second suspect, who was thought to 0:04:40.279 --> 0:04:43.800 be his protege, was probably killing just as many. In 0:04:43.839 --> 0:04:49.400 the early spring of nineteen RT infiltrated this ring to 0:04:49.560 --> 0:04:53.560 see if the informants information was correct. Little did he 0:04:53.680 --> 0:04:56.839 know that the operation would have him living full time 0:04:56.960 --> 0:05:01.760 undercover for fifteen months. They called it Operation Redbud and 0:05:01.960 --> 0:05:06.120 RT was the lead man on the case. Here's how 0:05:06.120 --> 0:05:09.960 it started. I want to make one note about this episode. 0:05:10.080 --> 0:05:13.360 You're gonna hear a lot of bleeping. It was very 0:05:13.400 --> 0:05:17.680 difficult in this interview to not use the actual names 0:05:17.839 --> 0:05:20.320 of these guys, but we didn't want to put it 0:05:20.320 --> 0:05:23.240 in the episode. So there's lots of bleeping. So Old 0:05:23.240 --> 0:05:25.200 Phil Taylor had to do what he had to do. 0:05:25.720 --> 0:05:29.160 Bear with us we were given. I was given two 0:05:29.200 --> 0:05:34.320 individuals that was notorious for taking multiple turkeys, and the 0:05:34.400 --> 0:05:39.080 intelligence provided to us was that it was a hung 0:05:39.080 --> 0:05:41.520 out and was a manager of a bar and he 0:05:41.600 --> 0:05:44.000 lived up over top of it. I drew around there. 0:05:44.160 --> 0:05:45.600 I have a band at the time, and I had 0:05:45.600 --> 0:05:48.960 it stuff for all kind of turkeys, props, spurs and 0:05:49.240 --> 0:05:52.440 tales and had him hidden obviously. So I went there 0:05:52.520 --> 0:05:57.120 one in there one afternoon and made a tactical air 0:05:57.240 --> 0:05:59.480 right off the bat. But it helped in a sense. 0:05:59.800 --> 0:06:02.760 I always try to go to if you got a 0:06:02.880 --> 0:06:05.400 name of a local person that sent you to him, 0:06:05.560 --> 0:06:08.240 that helped. If you just come out of blue knocked 0:06:08.240 --> 0:06:10.600 on their door or something whatever, however he did your 0:06:10.600 --> 0:06:13.279 approach and you just knocked on the door and say so, 0:06:13.600 --> 0:06:17.159 you know, and introduced yourself, it's kind of suspicious. So 0:06:17.160 --> 0:06:19.479 I'd always go to yard seal or stuff like that 0:06:19.600 --> 0:06:22.400 in the local area. I'd even pitch you up pick hikers. 0:06:22.440 --> 0:06:24.960 If somebody pitchhiking, you just get me a name with 0:06:25.080 --> 0:06:28.160 somebody in that community. And if they knew him, I 0:06:28.200 --> 0:06:30.000 wasn't even better, you know. But I would go to 0:06:30.160 --> 0:06:33.120 these yard seals, get a name and ask him, you know, 0:06:33.240 --> 0:06:36.240 get talking and they say, you know, something like yeah, yeah, 0:06:36.240 --> 0:06:37.680 he lives right up there, you know, And I was like, 0:06:37.800 --> 0:06:39.920 what's your name? So if I had a gold knock 0:06:39.960 --> 0:06:43.400 on the door, I said, hey, Jim down there, what's 0:06:43.400 --> 0:06:46.080 your name. He told me he's a big hunter, he 0:06:46.160 --> 0:06:49.960 knew gym. Yeah, So that broke topping into a social connection, 0:06:50.040 --> 0:06:55.000 even if it's a distant Yeah, this particular day that 0:06:55.240 --> 0:06:58.040 how coincidental it could have ever been, I do not know. 0:06:58.240 --> 0:07:02.040 But at the time I've seen an ad. A guy 0:07:02.200 --> 0:07:05.960 in Mcconnellsville was selling tools. So I called him up, 0:07:06.080 --> 0:07:08.080 told him I was gonna be down there and looking 0:07:08.120 --> 0:07:10.640 replacing the hunt. I said, I've stopped by air and 0:07:10.720 --> 0:07:12.440 look at your stuff. And he said, well, I can't 0:07:12.520 --> 0:07:15.400 say afternoon, I'm gonna be busy, and I said, okay. 0:07:15.600 --> 0:07:17.480 I said, well, maybe I'll stopped by some other time. 0:07:17.640 --> 0:07:19.560 He said all right, and he said where are you from? 0:07:19.640 --> 0:07:21.920 And I said, I'm from Marysville, you know, for a 0:07:22.000 --> 0:07:24.320 portrayed to be from. So I go in this bar 0:07:24.960 --> 0:07:28.360 and all the locals come through the back nbeknownst to me, 0:07:28.840 --> 0:07:32.240 I come through the front tactical air, you know, because 0:07:32.280 --> 0:07:35.600 everybody comes through the front. Everybody in the bar automatically 0:07:35.600 --> 0:07:38.760 looks you know, you know, ain't from around here because 0:07:38.760 --> 0:07:42.040 he's coming in the front door. That was a bad move. 0:07:42.160 --> 0:07:46.320 But anyhow, so we're sitting there talking. I'm at the 0:07:46.400 --> 0:07:47.480 end of the bar and I got a hat on, 0:07:47.760 --> 0:07:50.680 got a turkey on it. Camouflage and it was a 0:07:50.760 --> 0:07:54.040 bartending and we get to talking and uh, he was 0:07:54.160 --> 0:07:57.040 very approachable. Now did you know this was your target? Yeah, 0:07:57.040 --> 0:07:59.640 I knew this was my target. He was easy to connected. 0:08:00.000 --> 0:08:02.200 He said, to go buy something from that. I went 0:08:02.280 --> 0:08:04.000 to the bar. I went to bright. I went to 0:08:04.000 --> 0:08:05.480 the bar to hang out. That was my goal to 0:08:05.520 --> 0:08:08.920 go there to hang out. Well, based on the information 0:08:09.000 --> 0:08:13.160 he shared that day, I was pretty sure that we're 0:08:13.160 --> 0:08:15.440 on the right track. And I used to teach it 0:08:15.560 --> 0:08:18.880 Hawking College and we're not very far from Hawking College, 0:08:18.880 --> 0:08:21.400 and I know some of them people from Morgan County 0:08:21.440 --> 0:08:23.880 went to Hawking College. So here I am, you know, 0:08:23.880 --> 0:08:27.200 knowing that there's allowed to be people there might know me. Well. Guests, 0:08:27.200 --> 0:08:31.200 what the shift changes? Guy comes in and uh he said, oh, 0:08:31.240 --> 0:08:33.960 he said, I know. You said your artis story and 0:08:34.000 --> 0:08:37.280 I said, yeah, I'm going, oh, my land, this is 0:08:37.320 --> 0:08:40.040 in front of your target, guy target. This guy uses 0:08:40.080 --> 0:08:45.360 your real name. First day bad and now I'm going no, 0:08:45.520 --> 0:08:48.120 but I should Uh, I think you might be mixing 0:08:48.240 --> 0:08:51.199 up somebody else. I said, was he handsome, had a 0:08:51.280 --> 0:08:54.160 lot of money? And he goes name handsomebody wasn't didn't 0:08:54.160 --> 0:09:01.040 ever much? What ain't me off, well, did you recognize 0:09:01.040 --> 0:09:03.840 the guy? Okay, but I would. He knew who I was, 0:09:03.920 --> 0:09:05.880 and he said you were a turkey bow hunt for 0:09:05.920 --> 0:09:07.800 turkey and I did, yeah. And I used to teach 0:09:07.920 --> 0:09:09.760 archery one of the things that taught. Apparently I hadn't 0:09:09.800 --> 0:09:12.640 even archer class. But anyhow, the thing that saved me 0:09:13.040 --> 0:09:15.280 that day was when I told that I said, my 0:09:15.360 --> 0:09:18.839 name Bob Thomas, and this guy set beside me says, 0:09:19.320 --> 0:09:21.679 you have a Marysville I want. Yeah, I said, I 0:09:21.760 --> 0:09:24.559 talk to you on the phone today. You're donna look 0:09:24.559 --> 0:09:27.120 at some tools. I said, yeah. I said, you told 0:09:27.120 --> 0:09:28.679 me he was gonna be busy. Here you are you 0:09:28.800 --> 0:09:34.000 drunk sitting in the barrow with it? Just it is perfect? Perfect? 0:09:34.520 --> 0:09:37.120 I mean, how else? I mean? You know this guy 0:09:37.200 --> 0:09:41.400 basically was a local confirmed I wasn't who the bartender 0:09:41.400 --> 0:09:44.559 thought it Wow, at this talent. I had his stuff 0:09:44.600 --> 0:09:46.880 like that, stuff might work out like that and it 0:09:47.200 --> 0:09:51.240 and from that day on I was never questioned. Arties 0:09:51.320 --> 0:09:55.200 deep Dives Undercover were full of wildly close calls with 0:09:55.320 --> 0:09:59.239 resolutions that will leave you scratching your head pondering your philosophy. 0:09:59.280 --> 0:10:03.199 On Quinci DNS. On this first meeting, with Target number two. 0:10:03.720 --> 0:10:07.880 His fake identity was confirmed by a complete stranger, which 0:10:07.960 --> 0:10:12.080 solidified his almost blown cover. The meeting with this guy 0:10:12.080 --> 0:10:15.280 went so well that that very night they went groundhog 0:10:15.360 --> 0:10:18.800 hunting together, and before you know it, a few mornings later, 0:10:19.120 --> 0:10:22.839 Target number two invited r T or Bob Thomas as 0:10:22.840 --> 0:10:25.560 he's known, to go turkey hunting, and it was long 0:10:25.720 --> 0:10:30.800 before the season opener in Ohio. Operation Red Bud was on. 0:10:32.720 --> 0:10:35.800 We go hunting that next morning and his raining. But 0:10:35.840 --> 0:10:38.679 we're driving around road hunting as we're coming down this 0:10:38.880 --> 0:10:41.440 road and we turned left and it's probably about fifteen 0:10:41.480 --> 0:10:44.199 or twenty turkeys on the left hand side the route, 0:10:44.520 --> 0:10:47.760 which means you've got to shoot time. We get to him. 0:10:47.880 --> 0:10:50.760 Dad ran on my side road and he gives me 0:10:50.760 --> 0:10:53.400 a gun to shoot him, shoot him. I just pulled up. 0:10:53.600 --> 0:10:56.120 I aimed at one, but off of it, but the 0:10:56.160 --> 0:10:59.640 overspray hit at one in the back, so I just 0:11:00.000 --> 0:11:01.520 ant out with truck, went and got it and thrown 0:11:01.559 --> 0:11:04.080 the back took all. You know. That was the only 0:11:04.120 --> 0:11:08.200 time they ever killed anything illegal, really, and uh I 0:11:08.280 --> 0:11:10.560 was in like flint oh Man, because he'd seen you 0:11:10.679 --> 0:11:12.839 kill one right out of the truck and had it 0:11:13.040 --> 0:11:14.800 had the estate on that try, and he would have 0:11:14.840 --> 0:11:17.480 shot it, you know, but when he run across the road. 0:11:17.960 --> 0:11:20.040 You know, I'm supposed to be a poacher too, so 0:11:20.840 --> 0:11:22.720 he was good. He handed it to me. What you 0:11:22.720 --> 0:11:24.640 gotta do, You gotta do what you gotta do. Yeah, 0:11:24.800 --> 0:11:27.080 I shot it, killed it. That was the beginning of 0:11:27.120 --> 0:11:31.640 the relationship right there. This was the only illegal animal 0:11:31.800 --> 0:11:34.320 Art ever killed himself. And once you see how many 0:11:34.320 --> 0:11:37.600 illegal hunts ARTI was on, you'll see how hard he 0:11:37.679 --> 0:11:41.359 worked not to kill. He said. This was the beginning 0:11:41.600 --> 0:11:44.840 of their relationship. If you remember, from the first episode 0:11:44.920 --> 0:11:48.720 in the Secret Agent Man series, Art got extremely close 0:11:48.760 --> 0:11:51.760 with one of the outlaws. This was him. This is 0:11:51.800 --> 0:11:55.520 Target number two. Many of the outlaws RT chased. He 0:11:55.600 --> 0:11:59.600 despised them because of their despicable actions and the wider 0:11:59.720 --> 0:12:02.880 dis capability of their lives and character. He lived with 0:12:02.920 --> 0:12:06.359 these folks and saw how they treated their families, their neighbors, 0:12:06.360 --> 0:12:10.160 and strangers. But Target number two would prove to be different, 0:12:10.559 --> 0:12:13.480 and later Urt would become so close to him that 0:12:13.520 --> 0:12:15.600 he wished he could warn him that he was an 0:12:15.679 --> 0:12:19.400 undercover agent. We also learned on episode one that this 0:12:19.480 --> 0:12:23.000 is fairly common amongst undercover agents that they begin to 0:12:23.000 --> 0:12:26.840 empathize with the people they're chasing, and hey, I want 0:12:26.880 --> 0:12:28.880 to take a minute to bring up something to you. 0:12:29.360 --> 0:12:32.319 On these episodes, I'm only able to cover a very 0:12:32.320 --> 0:12:35.800 small section of Artie's career, and in this case, he's 0:12:35.840 --> 0:12:41.120 basically busting a band of recreational turkey poachers. However, many 0:12:41.160 --> 0:12:46.400 of his cases involved the commercialization of wildlife, involving the 0:12:46.480 --> 0:12:50.160 illegal sell of enormous amounts of fish caught on Lake 0:12:50.160 --> 0:12:54.040 Erie and the illegal selling of large quantities of wild 0:12:54.080 --> 0:12:59.360 game meat to restaurants in Cincinnati. These are extremely serious 0:12:59.400 --> 0:13:04.640 crimes that required extreme measures to bust these criminals. Don't 0:13:04.679 --> 0:13:07.480 think for a second that these undercover stings were on 0:13:07.640 --> 0:13:11.800 rinky dink wildlife violators. You've got to check out the 0:13:11.840 --> 0:13:16.439 book about Urt called Poachers Were My Prey by Chip Grows. 0:13:17.200 --> 0:13:20.240 Once Urt and the guys knew their leads were legit 0:13:20.600 --> 0:13:23.280 and they had the makings of a case, RT rented 0:13:23.280 --> 0:13:26.880 a residence and took up living full time in the community. 0:13:29.080 --> 0:13:32.040 When you're that deep into these communities, did you were 0:13:32.080 --> 0:13:34.640 you surprised at how much I legal activity was going 0:13:34.720 --> 0:13:37.160 on or was it kind of isolated and there were 0:13:37.160 --> 0:13:40.840 a lot of like law abiding people around. It was 0:13:40.880 --> 0:13:43.400 just these like tight little groups, tight little group, a 0:13:43.440 --> 0:13:46.119 lot of a lot of law abiding people that didn't 0:13:46.160 --> 0:13:48.920 really like it, and they may have been some ones 0:13:49.000 --> 0:13:51.240 that called in complaints. There was a lot of people 0:13:51.280 --> 0:13:53.640 there that did not agree with water. They didn't know 0:13:53.720 --> 0:13:55.920 that it was going on to a magnitude of that level, 0:13:55.960 --> 0:13:58.559 I'm sure work, but they knew stuff was going on 0:13:59.000 --> 0:14:01.360 even when it was some of them guys. When somebody 0:14:01.400 --> 0:14:03.920 come rent, don't say that he don't like what we do. 0:14:04.880 --> 0:14:08.400 So they knew that the society wasn't all four them. 0:14:08.440 --> 0:14:11.160 But yeah, they thought society was. Most of the society 0:14:11.200 --> 0:14:14.440 was okay with what they were doing. That's a very 0:14:14.480 --> 0:14:19.000 interesting point to consider, what is the socially acceptable amount 0:14:19.040 --> 0:14:22.400 of law breaking in a nation, of region and a 0:14:22.400 --> 0:14:25.800 group of friends in a family. It's really easy for 0:14:25.840 --> 0:14:28.280 our doctrine to get challenged when we look at our 0:14:28.320 --> 0:14:31.720 lives without a filter of justification. I think most of 0:14:31.800 --> 0:14:35.360 us would say our goal is to abide by the law. 0:14:35.880 --> 0:14:38.760 But do you roll through stop signs on country roads? 0:14:39.040 --> 0:14:41.600 Do you drive seventy five in a seventy mile per 0:14:41.640 --> 0:14:44.960 hour zone? Have you ever stept a single toe on 0:14:45.200 --> 0:14:48.680 land you didn't have permission to be on. Every one 0:14:48.720 --> 0:14:51.840 of us believes there is some gray in the law, 0:14:52.600 --> 0:14:56.120 but there also has to be a clear black and 0:14:56.240 --> 0:14:59.760 white section, and these guys were in the deep black. 0:15:00.680 --> 0:15:05.000 Operation Redbud was originally designed to catch two men, and 0:15:05.040 --> 0:15:08.480 at this point Urt has only made contact with one 0:15:08.520 --> 0:15:10.920 of them, which is target number two. But the web 0:15:10.960 --> 0:15:15.960 of criminal activity began to grow very quickly. This next 0:15:16.000 --> 0:15:19.360 story shows that growth and all the different ways that 0:15:19.520 --> 0:15:22.800 undercover work can get rooted out by the bad guys. 0:15:24.120 --> 0:15:26.440 We was in there one night in the bar and 0:15:26.480 --> 0:15:28.880 we ended up meeting two individuals. They just talked about 0:15:28.880 --> 0:15:31.040 shooting the deer the night before. And now I've never 0:15:31.040 --> 0:15:33.520 met him before, never seen him before, so they said 0:15:33.520 --> 0:15:35.600 they just come from the butcher shop picking it up. 0:15:36.160 --> 0:15:37.760 So we get to talking to him and then we 0:15:37.800 --> 0:15:41.240 told him we know been hunting with do you know? Yeah? Yeah, 0:15:41.600 --> 0:15:43.280 I said, where's this big deer at And he sits 0:15:43.320 --> 0:15:44.720 out the back of truck. So we went out there 0:15:44.720 --> 0:15:47.120 and confirmed it. You know, they had they post one 0:15:47.120 --> 0:15:49.800 the night before. Well good, you know. A couple of 0:15:49.880 --> 0:15:51.840 days later we was in there and he was bragging 0:15:51.840 --> 0:15:54.440 about how good he could shoot the one guy out 0:15:54.480 --> 0:15:57.520 law and the other guy was bragging a boy him too. Well, 0:15:57.520 --> 0:16:00.560 if you're so good, let's go. I'll drive. Got a gain, 0:16:01.280 --> 0:16:04.920 you got one, so give us two twenty swift. I 0:16:05.000 --> 0:16:07.280 think it was with one bullet the ware. We go, 0:16:07.560 --> 0:16:11.240 we fight here and he loses the bullet and we're 0:16:11.280 --> 0:16:13.800 in the process, I'm laughing at this guy. I mean, 0:16:13.920 --> 0:16:15.880 I'm dying leaving and you got He said, I'm want 0:16:15.880 --> 0:16:17.560 to knock you in the head when I slewer up. 0:16:17.600 --> 0:16:20.440 You know it was this, It's always on videotape. And 0:16:20.440 --> 0:16:22.840 he ends up killing a deer, so that now we're 0:16:22.840 --> 0:16:26.760 in good with these guys. And then it just mushroom 0:16:26.800 --> 0:16:30.600 there with other people bid involved, it just mushrooms. But 0:16:30.720 --> 0:16:33.680 now it really got interested. We're in the bar the 0:16:33.720 --> 0:16:35.880 next night. These two guys that we were out with 0:16:35.920 --> 0:16:39.640 the night before are complaining that somebody called into the 0:16:39.680 --> 0:16:41.440 game ward and turned to me in and that and 0:16:41.520 --> 0:16:44.480 their questioning me and my buddy. Oh, thinking y'all turned 0:16:44.520 --> 0:16:47.800 them in. This is a serious conferenation. This is serious. 0:16:47.840 --> 0:16:50.120 We know we're the only ones that was with him. Yeah, 0:16:50.160 --> 0:16:51.880 you know, but y'all hadn't done it and we have 0:16:52.240 --> 0:16:56.440 done the news to us too. Yeah. Well, this again 0:16:56.600 --> 0:16:59.880 is how things worked. I had contacted my supervisor and 0:17:00.040 --> 0:17:03.640 of him. The names of these individuals are supervisor context 0:17:03.760 --> 0:17:07.280 the radio room to get backgrounds on them. What that 0:17:07.359 --> 0:17:10.840 particular time, Our radio room just had a divider between 0:17:10.840 --> 0:17:13.320 the division and Wildlife Parks and sees that nature and 0:17:13.760 --> 0:17:18.760 Department of Transportation. What do you call? Right, These guys 0:17:18.840 --> 0:17:21.600 had a relative or kin folk that worked for the 0:17:21.640 --> 0:17:27.440 Department of Transportation. They heard us on our radios running 0:17:27.840 --> 0:17:31.199 these guys information. Wow, they heard you. No, No, they 0:17:31.240 --> 0:17:33.480 heard our supervisor because you called in. I called a 0:17:33.520 --> 0:17:37.280 supervisor and supervisor does that. And they were running it 0:17:37.400 --> 0:17:41.640 over the radio, which was a private conversation because he's 0:17:41.640 --> 0:17:43.959 on the telephone. But this guy in the next booth 0:17:44.080 --> 0:17:47.639 could hear and he knows it. He calls mourns. It 0:17:47.640 --> 0:17:51.119 just shows you how tight these communities are. Yes, absolutely, 0:17:51.280 --> 0:17:53.400 And they told us that that we got a friend 0:17:53.440 --> 0:17:56.200 that works for the Department Transportation. They have a running 0:17:56.200 --> 0:17:59.240 our names today and well on the person we've been 0:17:59.280 --> 0:18:02.200 with is you. Maybe they're talking about the night you 0:18:02.280 --> 0:18:05.160 shot the dyer before did you do anything that night? 0:18:06.160 --> 0:18:08.160 We thought about that too. I said, well, it's probably 0:18:08.160 --> 0:18:10.080 where it comes from. You know, what was the able 0:18:10.080 --> 0:18:14.320 to convince him? What wasn't us? It was it was 0:18:14.760 --> 0:18:16.600 could have shot the whole thing right down to two 0:18:16.800 --> 0:18:22.320 right there. A ground nesting bird can find uncountable ways 0:18:22.400 --> 0:18:26.639 to die, and and undercover operation it's kind of the 0:18:26.640 --> 0:18:31.280 same way. It's like a little baby quail navigating the drought, disease, 0:18:31.480 --> 0:18:36.200 coyotes and hawks. There's a thousand ways to die, even 0:18:36.359 --> 0:18:42.399 fescue invasion. As a timeline update, RT spends the spring 0:18:42.440 --> 0:18:46.840 of n hunting with Target number two while gathering an 0:18:46.840 --> 0:18:51.360 assortment of other outlaws into the operation. All of these 0:18:51.400 --> 0:18:54.639 events he's filming in the poach coach, his four wheel 0:18:54.720 --> 0:18:58.439 drive undercover van, and the hidden cameras on his person. 0:18:59.119 --> 0:19:01.600 Later they'd learned that target number two was killing this 0:19:01.680 --> 0:19:06.119 many turkeys. Target number one, well, RT was playing his 0:19:06.240 --> 0:19:09.840 cards conservatively, and the whole spring of ninety five he 0:19:09.920 --> 0:19:12.680 never even met Target number one. He didn't want to 0:19:12.720 --> 0:19:16.320 push it. So RT goes through the next eleven months 0:19:16.520 --> 0:19:19.399 hanging out with Target number two until the late winner 0:19:19.520 --> 0:19:25.320 of n when in February, Target number two stay with 0:19:25.359 --> 0:19:31.720 me finally introduces Bob Thomas RT to target number one. 0:19:32.720 --> 0:19:35.440 Finally we get to to come on, well what me 0:19:35.960 --> 0:19:38.040 till he go up to his house my land. He 0:19:38.280 --> 0:19:42.720 that he's got turkey tails and stuff hanging everywhere everywhere, 0:19:43.240 --> 0:19:45.560 and then in everything, I always consider myself be a 0:19:45.600 --> 0:19:48.399 good turkey hunter in a pretty decent car. But I 0:19:48.400 --> 0:19:50.359 had to act like I didn't know what I was 0:19:50.400 --> 0:19:54.160 doing that much, you know, I couldn't be better than them. Yeah, 0:19:54.320 --> 0:19:56.960 so obviously I put him on a pedestal right off 0:19:56.960 --> 0:19:59.640 the bat, you know, with all this stuff. So he said, 0:19:59.640 --> 0:20:02.240 what do you do on Tuesday? Nothing, Let's go hunt. 0:20:02.440 --> 0:20:04.480 So you came in and you just you just kind 0:20:04.480 --> 0:20:06.840 of doted on him and just put the charm on. 0:20:07.080 --> 0:20:09.280 And I've been hanging with for a year and he's like, 0:20:09.359 --> 0:20:11.600 I want to take you hunting. Yeah, two days after 0:20:11.600 --> 0:20:13.080 I met him with hunt. Do you find a lot 0:20:13.119 --> 0:20:16.240 of a lot of these guys are pretty inviting to 0:20:16.400 --> 0:20:18.680 have you come hunt with him? I think so after 0:20:18.720 --> 0:20:22.840 you meet a certain criteria, after you after you confirm 0:20:22.960 --> 0:20:26.679 or convince who you really are. Yeah, it takes the 0:20:26.680 --> 0:20:29.040 fear away from him. And I think back then they 0:20:29.040 --> 0:20:31.919 had no idea that the Division Wildlife even had an 0:20:32.000 --> 0:20:37.560 under cover unit or cover people. With RT being as 0:20:37.640 --> 0:20:41.159 instinctively good as he was, and the newness of the 0:20:41.280 --> 0:20:44.639 task force in Ohio, these guys were like deer in 0:20:44.680 --> 0:20:49.359 the spotlight, poaching pun intended. You can only imagine, after 0:20:49.480 --> 0:20:52.240 nearly a year of trying to meet target number one, 0:20:52.560 --> 0:20:55.240 how exciting it must have been to meet this guy 0:20:55.600 --> 0:20:58.359 and would two days be hunting with him. Let the 0:20:58.440 --> 0:21:02.920 good times in the v HS tapes role. So they 0:21:02.960 --> 0:21:06.080 invited me to eventually to go to West Virginia. So 0:21:06.119 --> 0:21:07.960 we went out the next back up. We went out 0:21:07.960 --> 0:21:09.960 the next morning. Killed a turkey. He killed one. He 0:21:10.040 --> 0:21:12.560 killed Were you sitting right beside him? Yeah? Video at 0:21:12.600 --> 0:21:14.840 audio and I had a video. I had a hidden 0:21:14.960 --> 0:21:17.919 video in my turkey best it only had maybe an 0:21:18.000 --> 0:21:21.560 hour of battery time. I still got the best. And 0:21:21.560 --> 0:21:24.120 I had a spatial compartment back there, and that's where 0:21:24.119 --> 0:21:28.000 I carry my recorder. And then I had a camera here, 0:21:28.600 --> 0:21:30.240 so if I took my pot put my hand in 0:21:30.280 --> 0:21:32.440 my pocket, I can pretty much direct wherever at camera 0:21:32.520 --> 0:21:35.720 wanted to go. Say. But then I also later on 0:21:35.880 --> 0:21:39.040 started carrying a little eight millimeter camera for after the 0:21:39.240 --> 0:21:41.880 with it, not during the event. So every morning when 0:21:41.880 --> 0:21:44.600 we go hunting. We hunted just about every morning after 0:21:44.640 --> 0:21:46.840 I met him. I'd always have to go have me 0:21:46.880 --> 0:21:49.840 a bowel movement, okay, And that was went because if 0:21:49.880 --> 0:21:52.000 I turned it on before I went hunting, time to 0:21:52.040 --> 0:21:53.800 get out there where that everything is going on in 0:21:53.840 --> 0:21:56.320 your battery life, and your machine would go dead. I 0:21:56.320 --> 0:21:58.520 wouldn't get nothing. So I'd wait till we get to 0:21:58.560 --> 0:22:00.280 the woods, and I'd always have to go have about 0:22:00.400 --> 0:22:04.359 movement from during that time, man, I would turn on 0:22:04.560 --> 0:22:06.600 the Uh, so that way I do. I had a 0:22:06.640 --> 0:22:09.080 good hour working. Yeah, so you need to kill a 0:22:09.080 --> 0:22:11.960 turkey within an hour, yeah, and normally we did. Normally 0:22:12.000 --> 0:22:14.879 we did. Really, so how many turkeys did you film 0:22:14.960 --> 0:22:17.560 him killing or were you with him when he killed 0:22:19.080 --> 0:22:23.359 in that time span from February till we shut it down, 0:22:23.720 --> 0:22:28.560 maybe forty to sixty. Really, you were there forty to 0:22:28.720 --> 0:22:33.240 sixty illegal kills with this target individual. And it's all preseason. 0:22:33.400 --> 0:22:36.480 These guys are getting a big head start. And this 0:22:36.600 --> 0:22:39.080 is only like in two or three townships. So you 0:22:39.160 --> 0:22:43.159 take guys that's waiting for turkey season legitimately, and you 0:22:43.240 --> 0:22:45.280 go out there to where you think you got some turkeys, 0:22:45.280 --> 0:22:46.720 and you go out there and you ain't got nothing. 0:22:47.080 --> 0:22:49.280 We don't wipe them out. Yeah, that's a lot of 0:22:49.320 --> 0:22:52.000 turkeys you take out too, or three township? What techniques 0:22:52.000 --> 0:22:55.360 did this guy used to not get caught? Like, did 0:22:55.400 --> 0:22:57.439 he did he hide guns in the woods? Did he 0:22:57.480 --> 0:22:59.840 have people drop him off? Was or did he just 0:23:00.080 --> 0:23:01.880